In this episode, Karol talks with Guy M., author of The Rescue and a former member of Israel’s elite Para Rescue Commandos. Guy shares gripping firsthand accounts from the October 7th attacks, offering a rare and raw perspective from the front lines. The discussion delves into the emotional and psychological toll of combat, the unpredictability of warfare, and the instinctive responses that define survival. Guy reflects on personal growth, the need for storytelling in the aftermath of trauma, and offers heartfelt advice to younger generations. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Wednesday & Friday
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marco Show on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
My guest today is Guy M.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Guy is the semi anonymous author of The Rescue October
seventh Through the Eyes of Israel's Power Rescue Commandos.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So nice to have you on, Guy.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Thank you for having me Carol on your amazing show.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I loved your book. I really found it so amazing.
You know, a lot of the time, I think, especially Jews,
like we tell and retell the stories. And I even
you know, I got to where my kids, my teenager
who reads a lot, would be like, no more Holocaust books.
But it's important to retell the stories so that people
(00:42):
know what really happened. And I feel like that was
the point for you in writing this.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Book, right.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So originally it's kind of hard to really point out
what was the purpose of writing the book, because we
were in the middle of war, literally rescuing casualties from
Aza from Lebanon after and in this mid war situation,
and me and the guys that were together on October
seventh on the first team to leave six six nine,
(01:10):
which is Israel's special Forces rescue unit, we found ourselves
on that day in the two or three days afterwards
in the communities, we were witnessing the most horrible scenes
no one could even imagine. And then no closure, nothing
like ceremony that kinds of wraps it up. One day
(01:30):
we're just at base preparing for war, and then we're
in war doing our jobs. I'm a paramedic, I was
trained for three years to do this job. I'm in
med school now. I haven't been on duty, like actual
war duty since by mandatory service back then from twenty
thirteen to twenty eighteen, and there was no closure. And
this is also the experience of so many soldiers talking
(01:51):
to maybe thousands, because it's not like the whole Israeli
army was there on October seventh, but for thousands of
us that were there, we just continued into this full
blown war. And you're absolutely right. There are so many
events happening right after each other, and it's we're living
in times that it's even hard to grasp the magnitude
(02:11):
of each event as itself. Remember, we're so shocked when
the deeper operation that was our board as a rescue
unit for the beginning of the war, of eliminating the
threat from Lebanon from up North, and then we're still
kind of trying to grasp that magnitude. And then we're
at this point after one of the most brilliant operations
(02:32):
I guess in modern war. The how President Trump call
it was they war with Iran. So for us, it's
even hard to point out what was the purpose, But
if I tried to kind of put it into an essence,
we needed to put a closure to that event. So
we started writing it and it was amazing for me
(02:54):
to see what the guys, with the soldiers that were
worth me bolks from the things that we saw, from
the gunshots with the terrorists, with treating casualties, mass casualty,
incident horrors, the bodies and chunks of the timeline were missing,
and it was putting it together was as itself an amazing,
(03:14):
amazing act for me to witness this, and it broughtmotion
to the guys because for soldiers, rescue soldiers in general,
for soldiers, we understand mission, we know missions, so when
we need to do a mission, we know what to do.
Emotions not really, that's part part of the equation is harder.
If you ask a twenty one and wear a rescue
soldier from six sixth night to jump out of the
(03:36):
helicopter in the middle of the ocean. Doesn't even know
it's waiting. While he's jumping into the water, you won't
even blink. If you can ask him to talk about
how is he feeling, then you're going to see this
torturous face on him. So even Dad for itself, to
see the guys bringing it together, it was amazing. And
until today, you know, I'm not a psychologist, but they
think it's so clear. Why until today there's more than
(03:58):
we're not even two years from Actober seventh. There's more
than one hundred books in Hebrew about October seventh, one
hundred and many maybe in English or not many, but
there will be. And still this is the rescue, and
how it's called in Hebrew, it's called I'll say it
in Hebrew, not waiting for call. So it's the only
book written by soldiers who actually fought there and not
(04:22):
by journalists or testimonies are victims.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It's such an interesting point.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I don't think people realize how much how little firsthand
account is in the books.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Like a lot of people will.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Have takes we as we say, and they'll have perspective,
but your story is actually the one from the ground.
What do people not know about that day that they'll
learn in your book.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
One of the things that we did want to emphasize,
not intentionally, but as we were talking and the guys
were describing, is, for one, how little we knew. If
I will tell you today Carol, that tomorrow there's going
to be aliens land in Washington and President Trump talking
to him about I don't know, life in another universe.
(05:07):
You're gonna look at me like I smoked something or something.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I might believe you after.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
This, Okay, So I'm gonna try to think about it's
something more bizarre, man, Okay, And this is from I
guess that's what we're talking about. Most people they were like, well,
most likely that's not going to happen, right. We couldn't
imagine in our worst nightmares what happened on October seventh.
It was so so far fetched. When we're going down
(05:34):
and we're driving down south on October seventh morning in
a pickup truck, we thought to ourselves, what we could imagine.
There's a group of terrorists dozen twenty that infiltrated through
a tunnel to Israeli grounds and that they're holding hostages
in one of the communities. We couldn't imagine three thousand
(05:55):
people looking to butcher Israelis. It's not in our capability
today looking back, as Israel's society is very critical of
course on the army and intelligence in the government, as soldiers,
as the ones and I'm civilian. It is not my
daily job. And this is also some sort of thing
that is very hard to explain. We had no clue
and we tried, you know, to emphasize that in the book.
(06:16):
Through the story itself, we were just a group of
guys going down, trying to do our best in the
circumstances that are just just unreasonable to judge and also,
if I may say, also are We didn't want it
to be a testimony. We wanted the reader to get
caught in the web of the book, not because he
wants to know about October seventh, but rather he's reading
(06:37):
a thriller that he has to know how it ends.
You want caught inside the web of the book. That
was very important for us, right.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I felt like that like where you you know you're
worrying about the protagonist, even though I know you know
you live to write the book. But you were an
active danger more than one time on that day.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
What do you remember about it?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I think when I look back, and even for me,
it's so hard to even imagine that it actually happened.
And I remember that this is a mechanism that everyone,
we all use it, but rescue soldiers in our mission,
we always do that. We kind of downgrade the situation
to gain back control, because if you're gonna actually try
(07:21):
to grasp that you're in this situation, that your life
is in danger, you're trying to rescue someone that won't survive,
and the whole gratitude of responsibility is just so hard
to function. So we always do this degradation. And if
to give an example, what guys after the pipeline, after
they finished what year and a half training at the unit,
(07:41):
the first rescue missions, when they go back and report
and do the briefing, they say like they felt in
a drill in the pipeline. They thought the casualty there
was actually injured soldier or civilian or even a minitarian mission.
And still they say, we felt like we're in the
simulator at the unit, treating a mannequin like a doll,
like that's the feeling. So we're always doing this degradation.
(08:02):
So I remember him driving down south on October seventh
and Noga back then my fiance and now I won't
tell the end of the story, and she's texting me, guy,
this is serious, be careful, and they're like, yeah, yeah,
she's always too serious. She always takes stuff too serious.
She's you know, he's a lawyer. Of course he has
to be serious. I couldn't. It was just decordating until
(08:23):
at some point, you know, we're driving down and someone
there's open fire from from so many directions, and we're
trying to what the heck is going on, and then.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It hits you, this is real.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It's not even real. It's just the beginning. And when
we think, okay, we got to the most chaotic scene
when we reached the Nova Festival and then we're sent
to liberate a commute. Liberate it's like that's the word.
It's under the control of an organization, terrorist organization, and
we're trying to liberate it. These are terms that we've
(08:56):
never we've never experienced, ever talked in the rescue unit.
We're always preparing for the worst. We're always training ourself
to the worst scenario. Try to imagine the most worst
scenario that could happen on this special operation or on
this rescuation. That's why we're prepared. This was never, never,
nothing we prepared for was even close to what we
saw in witness or experienced there.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
When you get to the kibbutz to liberate it, what
do you see?
Speaker 3 (09:24):
First thing that comes to my mind is how I
feel because I grew up in a kibbutz and in
a community in northern Israel, a rural community, and I
feel it suddenly, I feel like I'm back home at
the community where I grew up. It feels. And this
is the second that I kind of give that emotion
(09:44):
a place and it freaks me out. I mean, it
looks like the houses of my neighbors and that no,
you're not there. You're in a mission and they need
to go back into the zone to gain that control.
And then the second thing I remember I see is
there's so many bodies everywhere, mostly of terrorists. Emergency team
which Kibuzz responder was there. That was the first keyboats
we arrived, our squad or the three of us that
(10:07):
were sent down south that day. First Keyboots. We arriveds
and the guys there, the team, the first responders of
the keyboats, guys for the Kibootz families. Not only guys,
so girls, women that have rifles and our first responder
was there for an event like this. They gave a
hell of a fight. They were ten maybe fifteen call
(10:27):
by surprise, and there were dozens of terrorists storming well equipped.
I see bodies of terrorists on the floor with immunition,
like they're going to conquer the whole country, with food,
with medicine, everything. And they gave a hell of a fight.
That's the first thing that I saw, and it kind
of gave me a boost of confidence to see that happening.
(10:48):
And then of course we were caught into a gun
fight as terrorists open fired at us.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
What was that like?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Like?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
What did you what do you think in that moment?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
You're you're there to liberate the Kibbutz and you're under fire.
I mean, do you are you feeling like this is
it for me? Or do you have the kind of
training where you're like, oh no, I'm going to walk
out of here.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
This in some sort of a point of view, is
the essence of being a soldier. If it's it doesn't
matter even where. At some point you cannot think it's
only about function. You do not think, because if you
think there's nothing nothing logical about that situation, you gotta
(11:31):
be functional. And for me, when I hear gunshots, when
I see a situation that there are casualties, I'm all
may whole one hundred percent of my body. And I'm
just one example of many combat paramedics in the army
and very few or many rescue soldiers at the unit.
(11:52):
It's all about where is a person who needs my help?
Because there's always going to be that scream I need
a paramedic. There's always going to be that scream of
someone that is shot, and you're always your senses are
just looking for that because that's your cart. That's where
you get into action. So this is what you feel.
Of course, you look around if there's a threat, so
you're with your rifle. That's the first thing you do.
(12:13):
And dan you're alert to listen to where someone Where
is that person that is screaming? And I need to
do whatever it takes to get to him. So those
are the animal instincts that are brought up in years
of training and into active duty, and it's just an instinct.
I was honestly, honestly, honestly, it was of course never
imagined I'll be in a situation like that, But how
(12:34):
it kicks in those.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Instance, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
So when somebody reads the Rescue, what's the thing that
you want them to take away from it?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I want them to understand and try to understand Fudhism,
not through what the figures are saying, because we vote
it from where a bunch of guys are sat together
and revote it from the different angles. One of the
stories that unfolds is of Ron that he wakes up
at ky Boots with Tomorrow and they find themselves fighting
(13:03):
over their homes. Their parents are in, their sister and
their whole family and this is this is it. If
they don't fight, everybody's slaughtered. They understand it at some point,
not at the beginning. And when there's Matan is on
a helicopter on a way to a rescue mission and
he doesn't know what's what he's going to find, and
it hits him only after he lands at the hospital
and he sees what's going on television. And for us,
(13:25):
you know, I'm texting Nooga, Yes, the writ my helmet
on and I'm like sitting there, you know what the heck?
You know what's the big deal? We didn't know. That's
the first thing, and second of all for soldiers, And
this is a very it's not a it's not a
unique perspective as it's not as it's only for us.
This is for thousands of soldiers that went down. We
(13:46):
tried our best, we tried, we had no clue, and
many of us didn't make it back. And history, as
it remembers those days, it's going to remember it in
a critical point of view. It's going to judge all
those who had responsibility that things like this don't happen.
But we want history also to remember what those circumstances
(14:07):
were as we tried our best to do whatever we
can and the toll was so high. So those are
the main messages that we tried to convey through the stories,
not by saying it, but through the feelings, through the
guts of the reader. And also also also and even
maybe the most important, we insisted on finishing the book
(14:29):
with you know or optimistic, if they might say, that
was crucial for us as we were working on the book.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So you are optimistic, yes.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Of course, definitely. Now if they might say, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It's a good time right now, it's a good recording.
This shortly after the Iran operation and the ceasefire between
Iran and Israel.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
We managed, as me it was sorry, not we as
a unit, we as a nation, as people on a
multi front ward we're talking. I think it was eight fronts,
including anti Semitism. Waring Rorying got sorry from my accent.
This is a multi front of war. And in our
best scenarios, the most optimistic scenarios, we haven't. We never
(15:14):
imagined what we managed to do in northern Israelila. We
were training for years for the day we start a
war with them, and we were training for the consequences
to be huge. Thousands of Israelis will be killed. Right,
going to be embassy is blowing up. In what we did,
(15:35):
when we managed to do together with America and Iran,
it's beyond the biggest, most optimistic scenarios. And here we are.
So why won't the future be as well?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I like that, Yeah, what do you worry about?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I worry that at some point I'm going to look
back and I'm gonna regret things they haven't done. It's
not a good thing to be worried about because sometimes
it drives are crazy in the good essence, it just
makes you sometimes like you're jumping into a pool and
it's you know it's going to be cold inside, and
then you're kind of procrastinating. You're just never mean, yeah,
(16:11):
maybe it's not a good day. So it helps you
not to dip a toe, but to just jump and
just say, what the heck is gonna be freezing, but
what the heck.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's funny because you seem like you've done quite a lot.
It doesn't seem like you've missed out on that much.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I hope, I hope not. Maybe that is the drive.
So at the end of the day, I guess it
helps accomplish more in less time because they're always afraid
it's going to end soon. And this also, I guess,
is all maybe part of a burden, that this the
toll of being a rescue soldier or being with this
responsibility from a young age from nineteen years old. It's
(16:49):
maybe it's even an attitude, but I think that that
is one of the things I kind of contemplate a lot.
If I'm not going to do it? Am I going
to look back and regret not doing it?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So if yes, yeah, you just have to push my Well,
speaking of looking back and maybe having any regrets, what
would you tell your sixteen year old self?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
What is sixteen year old guy I need to know?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Would tell guy sixteen years old in Israel? I think
it's a not seniors even right, It's like freshman, what
is it? It's a sophomore. So I would tell them
everybody is struggling. I remember myself as a teenager. I
didn't have the confidence. I had a lot. I was
showing off with a lot of confidence, but inside I
was terrified of my own shade. And he felt like
(17:31):
everybody around me it's full of confidence. And they're like,
you know, everybody's a peacock and I'm the only one
that is an impostor. And I will go back and say,
look at them, they're all phonies. They're all like you're
just you're just too young to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Sixteen is pretty young to have imposter syndrome.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
I feel like that's something that develops when you get
older and you think that you know, you're the only
one feeling like you can't do stuff, and everybody else
seems to be, you know, powering up ahead.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I think that what changes to the imposter her syndrome
that we have as we become grown ups. Once someone
told me that the difference between child or a teenager
to a grown up is when you become cynical about things.
So I think it's that tipping point is when you
you become an impostor of not who you think you are,
(18:24):
but who others think you are. Because when you when
you're sixteen, you're kind of this, You're like a gush
of paintings that don't have like any color, and.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Then you evolvest a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
You're not sure that your colors are bright. You're like,
well everybody thinks the callors are bright, but they're not.
So I think that point of cynical to become of
sixteen seventeen and becoming eighteen and they're like everything likes
like a party. We need to kind of see that
moment and say, everybody is struggling.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. Well, I've enjoyed this
conversation so much. I really think you're such an interesting person.
I hope you write more books. I hope that we
get to see more of your ideas and your writing,
maybe outside of terrible events in our you know, shared history.
(19:18):
But leave us here with your best tip for my
listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
When I was in ninth grade, I joined my father.
He had a karate club in the rural, tiny community
that we lived in, and he gave me this responsibility
to be the main instructor. I was very young and
there were four groups twice a week, and I hated it.
I was I was like, I didn't hate the karate
garden is great. I liked it and even paid me
(19:47):
some penn you know, a few pennies. That was like makeshop.
But the responsibility, because I was terrified, what if no
one shows up? You know, maybe they hate me, maybe
they think the best the worst instructor ever. And the
responsibility from week to week it was I was struggling
with it. It was even so sometimes I was afraid. And
then at some point I was talking about evolving. I
(20:10):
kind of got used to the to this feeling that
there's no one else, Like if I don't do good enough,
no one can help me, like no one's going to
show up for the next lesson, And then it evolved
those those feelings into the army and becoming a rescue soldier,
and it was like a synergy because that's the whole essence.
You're the lot last call when everybody failed, like all
(20:31):
the civilian ems, police, everybody tried, so if they tried
and failed, they call you. And then if you failed,
there's no one else to call. So I think at
some point when when we all struggle with it, when
we kind of well, if this goes wrong, when I'm
who am I going to blame? What am I going
to call it? But once you get used to that
feeling and you kind of get not comfortable but less
(20:53):
terrified of it, you can kind of find out that
you're capable of so much more.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I love that be the last line of defense. That's
really it's a great piece of advice. The book is
called The Rescue October seventh, Through the Eyes of Israel's
Para rescue Commandos. Get it on Amazon or anywhere you
buy books. Thank you so much for coming on guy.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
You cal
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marco Show on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
My guest today is Guy M.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Guy is the semi anonymous author of The Rescue October
seventh Through the Eyes of Israel's Power Rescue Commandos.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So nice to have you on, Guy.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Thank you for having me Carol on your amazing show.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I loved your book. I really found it so amazing.
You know, a lot of the time, I think, especially Jews,
like we tell and retell the stories. And I even
you know, I got to where my kids, my teenager
who reads a lot, would be like, no more Holocaust books.
But it's important to retell the stories so that people
(00:42):
know what really happened. And I feel like that was
the point for you in writing this.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Book, right.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So originally it's kind of hard to really point out
what was the purpose of writing the book, because we
were in the middle of war, literally rescuing casualties from
Aza from Lebanon after and in this mid war situation,
and me and the guys that were together on October
seventh on the first team to leave six six nine,
(01:10):
which is Israel's special Forces rescue unit, we found ourselves
on that day in the two or three days afterwards
in the communities, we were witnessing the most horrible scenes
no one could even imagine. And then no closure, nothing
like ceremony that kinds of wraps it up. One day
(01:30):
we're just at base preparing for war, and then we're
in war doing our jobs. I'm a paramedic, I was
trained for three years to do this job. I'm in
med school now. I haven't been on duty, like actual
war duty since by mandatory service back then from twenty
thirteen to twenty eighteen, and there was no closure. And
this is also the experience of so many soldiers talking
(01:51):
to maybe thousands, because it's not like the whole Israeli
army was there on October seventh, but for thousands of
us that were there, we just continued into this full
blown war. And you're absolutely right. There are so many
events happening right after each other, and it's we're living
in times that it's even hard to grasp the magnitude
(02:11):
of each event as itself. Remember, we're so shocked when
the deeper operation that was our board as a rescue
unit for the beginning of the war, of eliminating the
threat from Lebanon from up North, and then we're still
kind of trying to grasp that magnitude. And then we're
at this point after one of the most brilliant operations
(02:32):
I guess in modern war. The how President Trump call
it was they war with Iran. So for us, it's
even hard to point out what was the purpose, But
if I tried to kind of put it into an essence,
we needed to put a closure to that event. So
we started writing it and it was amazing for me
(02:54):
to see what the guys, with the soldiers that were
worth me bolks from the things that we saw, from
the gunshots with the terrorists, with treating casualties, mass casualty,
incident horrors, the bodies and chunks of the timeline were missing,
and it was putting it together was as itself an amazing,
(03:14):
amazing act for me to witness this, and it broughtmotion
to the guys because for soldiers, rescue soldiers in general,
for soldiers, we understand mission, we know missions, so when
we need to do a mission, we know what to do.
Emotions not really, that's part part of the equation is harder.
If you ask a twenty one and wear a rescue
soldier from six sixth night to jump out of the
(03:36):
helicopter in the middle of the ocean. Doesn't even know
it's waiting. While he's jumping into the water, you won't
even blink. If you can ask him to talk about
how is he feeling, then you're going to see this
torturous face on him. So even Dad for itself, to
see the guys bringing it together, it was amazing. And
until today, you know, I'm not a psychologist, but they
think it's so clear. Why until today there's more than
(03:58):
we're not even two years from Actober seventh. There's more
than one hundred books in Hebrew about October seventh, one
hundred and many maybe in English or not many, but
there will be. And still this is the rescue, and
how it's called in Hebrew, it's called I'll say it
in Hebrew, not waiting for call. So it's the only
book written by soldiers who actually fought there and not
(04:22):
by journalists or testimonies are victims.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It's such an interesting point.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I don't think people realize how much how little firsthand
account is in the books.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Like a lot of people will.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Have takes we as we say, and they'll have perspective,
but your story is actually the one from the ground.
What do people not know about that day that they'll
learn in your book.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
One of the things that we did want to emphasize,
not intentionally, but as we were talking and the guys
were describing, is, for one, how little we knew. If
I will tell you today Carol, that tomorrow there's going
to be aliens land in Washington and President Trump talking
to him about I don't know, life in another universe.
(05:07):
You're gonna look at me like I smoked something or something.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I might believe you after.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
This, Okay, So I'm gonna try to think about it's
something more bizarre, man, Okay, And this is from I
guess that's what we're talking about. Most people they were like, well,
most likely that's not going to happen, right. We couldn't
imagine in our worst nightmares what happened on October seventh.
It was so so far fetched. When we're going down
(05:34):
and we're driving down south on October seventh morning in
a pickup truck, we thought to ourselves, what we could imagine.
There's a group of terrorists dozen twenty that infiltrated through
a tunnel to Israeli grounds and that they're holding hostages
in one of the communities. We couldn't imagine three thousand
(05:55):
people looking to butcher Israelis. It's not in our capability
today looking back, as Israel's society is very critical of
course on the army and intelligence in the government, as soldiers,
as the ones and I'm civilian. It is not my
daily job. And this is also some sort of thing
that is very hard to explain. We had no clue
and we tried, you know, to emphasize that in the book.
(06:16):
Through the story itself, we were just a group of
guys going down, trying to do our best in the
circumstances that are just just unreasonable to judge and also,
if I may say, also are We didn't want it
to be a testimony. We wanted the reader to get
caught in the web of the book, not because he
wants to know about October seventh, but rather he's reading
(06:37):
a thriller that he has to know how it ends.
You want caught inside the web of the book. That
was very important for us, right.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I felt like that like where you you know you're
worrying about the protagonist, even though I know you know
you live to write the book. But you were an
active danger more than one time on that day.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
What do you remember about it?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I think when I look back, and even for me,
it's so hard to even imagine that it actually happened.
And I remember that this is a mechanism that everyone,
we all use it, but rescue soldiers in our mission,
we always do that. We kind of downgrade the situation
to gain back control, because if you're gonna actually try
(07:21):
to grasp that you're in this situation, that your life
is in danger, you're trying to rescue someone that won't survive,
and the whole gratitude of responsibility is just so hard
to function. So we always do this degradation. And if
to give an example, what guys after the pipeline, after
they finished what year and a half training at the unit,
(07:41):
the first rescue missions, when they go back and report
and do the briefing, they say like they felt in
a drill in the pipeline. They thought the casualty there
was actually injured soldier or civilian or even a minitarian mission.
And still they say, we felt like we're in the
simulator at the unit, treating a mannequin like a doll,
like that's the feeling. So we're always doing this degradation.
(08:02):
So I remember him driving down south on October seventh
and Noga back then my fiance and now I won't
tell the end of the story, and she's texting me, guy,
this is serious, be careful, and they're like, yeah, yeah,
she's always too serious. She always takes stuff too serious.
She's you know, he's a lawyer. Of course he has
to be serious. I couldn't. It was just decordating until
(08:23):
at some point, you know, we're driving down and someone
there's open fire from from so many directions, and we're
trying to what the heck is going on, and then.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It hits you, this is real.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It's not even real. It's just the beginning. And when
we think, okay, we got to the most chaotic scene
when we reached the Nova Festival and then we're sent
to liberate a commute. Liberate it's like that's the word.
It's under the control of an organization, terrorist organization, and
we're trying to liberate it. These are terms that we've
(08:56):
never we've never experienced, ever talked in the rescue unit.
We're always preparing for the worst. We're always training ourself
to the worst scenario. Try to imagine the most worst
scenario that could happen on this special operation or on
this rescuation. That's why we're prepared. This was never, never,
nothing we prepared for was even close to what we
saw in witness or experienced there.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
When you get to the kibbutz to liberate it, what
do you see?
Speaker 3 (09:24):
First thing that comes to my mind is how I
feel because I grew up in a kibbutz and in
a community in northern Israel, a rural community, and I
feel it suddenly, I feel like I'm back home at
the community where I grew up. It feels. And this
is the second that I kind of give that emotion
(09:44):
a place and it freaks me out. I mean, it
looks like the houses of my neighbors and that no,
you're not there. You're in a mission and they need
to go back into the zone to gain that control.
And then the second thing I remember I see is
there's so many bodies everywhere, mostly of terrorists. Emergency team
which Kibuzz responder was there. That was the first keyboats
we arrived, our squad or the three of us that
(10:07):
were sent down south that day. First Keyboots. We arriveds
and the guys there, the team, the first responders of
the keyboats, guys for the Kibootz families. Not only guys,
so girls, women that have rifles and our first responder
was there for an event like this. They gave a
hell of a fight. They were ten maybe fifteen call
(10:27):
by surprise, and there were dozens of terrorists storming well equipped.
I see bodies of terrorists on the floor with immunition,
like they're going to conquer the whole country, with food,
with medicine, everything. And they gave a hell of a fight.
That's the first thing that I saw, and it kind
of gave me a boost of confidence to see that happening.
(10:48):
And then of course we were caught into a gun
fight as terrorists open fired at us.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
What was that like?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Like?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
What did you what do you think in that moment?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
You're you're there to liberate the Kibbutz and you're under fire.
I mean, do you are you feeling like this is
it for me? Or do you have the kind of
training where you're like, oh no, I'm going to walk
out of here.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
This in some sort of a point of view, is
the essence of being a soldier. If it's it doesn't
matter even where. At some point you cannot think it's
only about function. You do not think, because if you
think there's nothing nothing logical about that situation, you gotta
(11:31):
be functional. And for me, when I hear gunshots, when
I see a situation that there are casualties, I'm all
may whole one hundred percent of my body. And I'm
just one example of many combat paramedics in the army
and very few or many rescue soldiers at the unit.
(11:52):
It's all about where is a person who needs my help?
Because there's always going to be that scream I need
a paramedic. There's always going to be that scream of
someone that is shot, and you're always your senses are
just looking for that because that's your cart. That's where
you get into action. So this is what you feel.
Of course, you look around if there's a threat, so
you're with your rifle. That's the first thing you do.
(12:13):
And dan you're alert to listen to where someone Where
is that person that is screaming? And I need to
do whatever it takes to get to him. So those
are the animal instincts that are brought up in years
of training and into active duty, and it's just an instinct.
I was honestly, honestly, honestly, it was of course never
imagined I'll be in a situation like that, But how
(12:34):
it kicks in those.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Instance, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
So when somebody reads the Rescue, what's the thing that
you want them to take away from it?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I want them to understand and try to understand Fudhism,
not through what the figures are saying, because we vote
it from where a bunch of guys are sat together
and revote it from the different angles. One of the
stories that unfolds is of Ron that he wakes up
at ky Boots with Tomorrow and they find themselves fighting
(13:03):
over their homes. Their parents are in, their sister and
their whole family and this is this is it. If
they don't fight, everybody's slaughtered. They understand it at some point,
not at the beginning. And when there's Matan is on
a helicopter on a way to a rescue mission and
he doesn't know what's what he's going to find, and
it hits him only after he lands at the hospital
and he sees what's going on television. And for us,
(13:25):
you know, I'm texting Nooga, Yes, the writ my helmet
on and I'm like sitting there, you know what the heck?
You know what's the big deal? We didn't know. That's
the first thing, and second of all for soldiers, And
this is a very it's not a it's not a
unique perspective as it's not as it's only for us.
This is for thousands of soldiers that went down. We
(13:46):
tried our best, we tried, we had no clue, and
many of us didn't make it back. And history, as
it remembers those days, it's going to remember it in
a critical point of view. It's going to judge all
those who had responsibility that things like this don't happen.
But we want history also to remember what those circumstances
(14:07):
were as we tried our best to do whatever we
can and the toll was so high. So those are
the main messages that we tried to convey through the stories,
not by saying it, but through the feelings, through the
guts of the reader. And also also also and even
maybe the most important, we insisted on finishing the book
(14:29):
with you know or optimistic, if they might say, that
was crucial for us as we were working on the book.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So you are optimistic, yes.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Of course, definitely. Now if they might say, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It's a good time right now, it's a good recording.
This shortly after the Iran operation and the ceasefire between
Iran and Israel.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
We managed, as me it was sorry, not we as
a unit, we as a nation, as people on a
multi front ward we're talking. I think it was eight fronts,
including anti Semitism. Waring Rorying got sorry from my accent.
This is a multi front of war. And in our
best scenarios, the most optimistic scenarios, we haven't. We never
(15:14):
imagined what we managed to do in northern Israelila. We
were training for years for the day we start a
war with them, and we were training for the consequences
to be huge. Thousands of Israelis will be killed. Right,
going to be embassy is blowing up. In what we did,
(15:35):
when we managed to do together with America and Iran,
it's beyond the biggest, most optimistic scenarios. And here we are.
So why won't the future be as well?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I like that, Yeah, what do you worry about?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I worry that at some point I'm going to look
back and I'm gonna regret things they haven't done. It's
not a good thing to be worried about because sometimes
it drives are crazy in the good essence, it just
makes you sometimes like you're jumping into a pool and
it's you know it's going to be cold inside, and
then you're kind of procrastinating. You're just never mean, yeah,
(16:11):
maybe it's not a good day. So it helps you
not to dip a toe, but to just jump and
just say, what the heck is gonna be freezing, but
what the heck.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's funny because you seem like you've done quite a lot.
It doesn't seem like you've missed out on that much.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I hope, I hope not. Maybe that is the drive.
So at the end of the day, I guess it
helps accomplish more in less time because they're always afraid
it's going to end soon. And this also, I guess,
is all maybe part of a burden, that this the
toll of being a rescue soldier or being with this
responsibility from a young age from nineteen years old. It's
(16:49):
maybe it's even an attitude, but I think that that
is one of the things I kind of contemplate a lot.
If I'm not going to do it? Am I going
to look back and regret not doing it?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So if yes, yeah, you just have to push my Well,
speaking of looking back and maybe having any regrets, what
would you tell your sixteen year old self?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
What is sixteen year old guy I need to know?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Would tell guy sixteen years old in Israel? I think
it's a not seniors even right, It's like freshman, what
is it? It's a sophomore. So I would tell them
everybody is struggling. I remember myself as a teenager. I
didn't have the confidence. I had a lot. I was
showing off with a lot of confidence, but inside I
was terrified of my own shade. And he felt like
(17:31):
everybody around me it's full of confidence. And they're like,
you know, everybody's a peacock and I'm the only one
that is an impostor. And I will go back and say,
look at them, they're all phonies. They're all like you're
just you're just too young to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Sixteen is pretty young to have imposter syndrome.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
I feel like that's something that develops when you get
older and you think that you know, you're the only
one feeling like you can't do stuff, and everybody else
seems to be, you know, powering up ahead.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I think that what changes to the imposter her syndrome
that we have as we become grown ups. Once someone
told me that the difference between child or a teenager
to a grown up is when you become cynical about things.
So I think it's that tipping point is when you
you become an impostor of not who you think you are,
(18:24):
but who others think you are. Because when you when
you're sixteen, you're kind of this, You're like a gush
of paintings that don't have like any color, and.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Then you evolvest a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
You're not sure that your colors are bright. You're like,
well everybody thinks the callors are bright, but they're not.
So I think that point of cynical to become of
sixteen seventeen and becoming eighteen and they're like everything likes
like a party. We need to kind of see that
moment and say, everybody is struggling.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. Well, I've enjoyed this
conversation so much. I really think you're such an interesting person.
I hope you write more books. I hope that we
get to see more of your ideas and your writing,
maybe outside of terrible events in our you know, shared history.
(19:18):
But leave us here with your best tip for my
listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
When I was in ninth grade, I joined my father.
He had a karate club in the rural, tiny community
that we lived in, and he gave me this responsibility
to be the main instructor. I was very young and
there were four groups twice a week, and I hated it.
I was I was like, I didn't hate the karate
garden is great. I liked it and even paid me
(19:47):
some penn you know, a few pennies. That was like makeshop.
But the responsibility, because I was terrified, what if no
one shows up? You know, maybe they hate me, maybe
they think the best the worst instructor ever. And the
responsibility from week to week it was I was struggling
with it. It was even so sometimes I was afraid. And
then at some point I was talking about evolving. I
(20:10):
kind of got used to the to this feeling that
there's no one else, Like if I don't do good enough,
no one can help me, like no one's going to
show up for the next lesson, And then it evolved
those those feelings into the army and becoming a rescue soldier,
and it was like a synergy because that's the whole essence.
You're the lot last call when everybody failed, like all
(20:31):
the civilian ems, police, everybody tried, so if they tried
and failed, they call you. And then if you failed,
there's no one else to call. So I think at
some point when when we all struggle with it, when
we kind of well, if this goes wrong, when I'm
who am I going to blame? What am I going
to call it? But once you get used to that
feeling and you kind of get not comfortable but less
(20:53):
terrified of it, you can kind of find out that
you're capable of so much more.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I love that be the last line of defense. That's
really it's a great piece of advice. The book is
called The Rescue October seventh, Through the Eyes of Israel's
Para rescue Commandos. Get it on Amazon or anywhere you
buy books. Thank you so much for coming on guy.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
You cal
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