In this episode of The Truth with Lisa Boothe, Lisa sits down with Seamus Bruner from the Government Accountability Institute to uncover the hidden money networks behind America’s most radical protest movements. They break down how billionaire donors like George Soros and Neville Roy Singham—allegedly linked to the Chinese Communist Party—help fund, organize, and legally shield groups like Antifa. This episode explores the Trump administration’s push to label Antifa a domestic terrorist organization, the hurdles facing law enforcement, and the growing influence of the “protest industrial complex” on U.S. politics and public safety. The Truth with Lisa Boothe is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get
to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today,
we're joined by Shamus Bruner. He is the director of
research at the Government and Accountability Institute. We've also had
him on the podcast to talk about his book Control
of Guards, but he was recently at the White House
Roundtable to talk about Antifa, to talk about the funding
into some of these left wing groups, which is a specialty.
(00:23):
Now we're talking, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars
that have gone to some of these left wing groups,
these Antifa linked groups as well. He's also identified some
billionaire funders whose name might not be as familiar to you,
this individual novelle Roy Singham, who allegedly has ties to
the CCP. So we're going to dig into all of this,
(00:43):
who's funding all of this, why are they funding it?
And now that we know the Trump administration is doing
a whole of government approach to dig into the funding
and also to disrupt some of these groups like Antifa, where.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Is this all heading.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What will they find Shamus Brunner about that and so
much more.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Stay with us.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, Seamus Berner, It's great to have you on the show.
I'm really looking forward to this episode and hearing from you.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
You know, obviously there's been a lot to talk about.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Antifa lately and trying to get into the root of
a lot of this leftist funding, and you're the guy
to ask those questions too, So appreciate you making the time, Lisa.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
It's always a pleasure to join you on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
There were some recently some news articles kind of focusing
on what you guys discussed at this roundtable with the
White House that we'll dive into. But it seems like
some of these left wing groups are starting a panic
a little bit as a result of some of the
research that you've done and you've put forward, and now
(01:48):
the White House has heightened attention to it. You know,
talk about that, talk about the panic, and talk a
little bit about some of this breaking news that has
come forward.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So when President Trump posted it would be a couple
of months ago actually that George Soros and his son
should be investigated under RICO, this was before the assassination
of Charlie Kirk and that's really around the time that
this all starts. I mean, there had been a no
King's protest back in June. There had been a bunch
(02:22):
of anti ICE riots all throughout, you know, ever since
Trump was inaugurated out in the Los Angeles, across the country, fires, arsons,
et cetera. And so there's been kind of just this
culture of unrest that the left has been fomenting, and
we've been following the money to see who is backing this.
So back when LA was experiencing it's anti Ice Day
(02:44):
of rage, we found that Neville Roy Singham, this foreign
billionaire who lives in China, who has been funding unrest
going back to BLM and all kinds of division in
our country, he had been funding some of the groups
out in LA.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And so we just we've been acting it for several months.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
In the wake of the Charlie Kirk assassination, we have
been just unalarmed at the number of people who are
celebrating and and sort of just this condoning of violence
against political targets.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And so that is really what.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Kicked off Trump designating Antifa as a domestic terror organization.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
And then after President Trump made.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
That designation, he called together this White House roundtable about
two weeks back, and so it was a number of journalists,
many of them who have been on the front lines
face to face with Antifa, you know, Andy No, Julio Rosa,
Savanna Hernandez, and so many others who have been actually
physically assaulted, attacked, brutally attacked. And I was kind of
(03:49):
the one guy there who I've not been beaten up
by Antifa.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Thankfully.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
That's good. Let's keep it that way.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
I would like to keep it away that way, but
let's keep it that But I was to follow them guy,
and what I said to President Trump and the cabinet
was that, you know, we've tracked this money to what.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
We call the protest industrial complex. We call it Riot Inc.
And like many corporations, Riot Inc. Has many divisions. It's
got the boots on the ground division, but it also
has a pr.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Division and a communications division.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
It also has a very well funded legal division that
helps get these violent criminals out of jail as soon
as possible back onto the streets. Things like the bail
funds that instantly get basically overnight, people have committed violent
crimes are then back out on the streets the next
day to attack our law enforcement officials. So the thing
(04:40):
that we are focusing on the most are the investors
in rioting. So we followed the money to the top
of the big NGO funding networks. I mean, yes, of course,
George Soros and the Open Society Institutes are our major funders.
There's also lesser known funding networks like the Arabella network,
the Tie network.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I mentioned Singham.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
He's got a huge protest funding mechanism called.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
The People's Forum. It's in New York. And then there's
a few others.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Rockefeller of course pours a ton of money into this system,
but the big ones are really Tides, Arabella, and Soros
funding networks.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I guess it's just the way the news is going
these days. But it feels like the roundtable.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Was like yesterday.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
It's like life just flies by these days, and you know,
there's so much going on. I feel like, you know,
it moves so quickly. So yeah, so you talked about
Riot the post.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Industrial complex, right, inc.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now you've traced a lot of money going into these groups.
You know this Singham guy. Tell me a little bit
more about him, and I'm just started to hear his
name recently. How long has he been on your map
and your radar?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
So my colleague Peter Schweitzer wrote a huge book called
Blood Money a couple of years ago, I want to say,
maybe twenty twenty three or four, and that had a
whole chapter on Neville or Roy Singham.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Neville Roy Singham, I think he goes by Roy and
so he is.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
He sold his tech company, it was called thought Works
in twenty eighteen, I believe, for close to a billion dollars.
He's married to the head of Code Pink, which, for
those who don't know what Code Pink, it's another one
of these radical extremist groups. They were probably most recently
in the news when they disrupted President Trump had gone
to dinner with some of his advisors and all of
(06:33):
a sudden, spontaneous chaos orrups at the restaurant and all
of these people start shrieking at him and getting in
his face. It really didn't look like a security threat.
I mean, there were inches away from the President's Secret Service.
Got rid of them pretty quickly, got him out of there.
But Code Pink has been huge in the protest industrial complex.
He Nevill Roy Singham funds, of course Code Pink, but
(06:55):
he has this thing in New York called the People's
for Him and it distributes money to all kinds of
radical groups. I mean, the protests that turned into violent
riots out in Los Angeles were organized in part by
a group called CHURLA, the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights
Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
He funds again BLM.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Actually he popped back up on our radar pretty recently
after the Charlie Kirk assassination.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
There was this group Armed Queers.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Of Salt Lake City, and the New York Post reported
that the FBI was investigating them for potential knowledge of
the assassination ahead of time. There's no evidence, I'll be
clear that they were linked to the Kirk assassination. But
when we started looking into this group Armed Queers of
Salt Lake City, which is exactly like what it sounds.
I mean, they go to the shooting range and you
(07:44):
know he just planned for I guess they say defensive maneuvers.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
But they were flown down.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
In this group from Salt Lake City to Cuba of
all places, and participated in a Nevill Roy Singham backed
Marxist revolution lutionary training event. He's actually helped fund at
least eight hundred groups, I mean, whether.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
It's BLM or other radical.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Groups like that ANTIFA types, to go down to Cuba
and learn from real revolutionaries on how to overthrow countries.
The Armed Queers of Salt Lake City, they posted all
of these videos of the event. We were able to
screen grab them before they completely went dark.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And they did that, by the way, that before they
were announced to be under investigation.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
I think that's one of the things that the FBI
found suspicious is around the time of Charlie Kirk's assassination,
they just started taking all of their content off of Instagram, Facebook.
They had substack articles talking about how to overthrow the US.
So the point is is Nevilroy Singham is what we
would consider a foreign investor in rioting.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
He lives in Shanghai.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Why does he live in China?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
He's very pro CCP. Ironically, he funds a lot of
things in the.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
US that the CCP would never be on board with
Armed Queers.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So is the American. I believe he's got.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Either dual citizenship or he may He may be an American,
but he does not spend the most most of his
time here.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
He spends it in China.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Interesting, and in these groups like Antifa, they have lawyers
who protect them with the National Lawyers Guild. Talk a
little bit about these what do we know about these
lawyers and and sort of like their ties to these
left wing groups.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Yeah, I mean that's that's definitely one of the most
well funded. That's where a lot of the money goes
to his lawyers at things like the ACLU. The National
Lawyers Guild is like a more extreme version of the
a c l U. And what they're theirs. They're on
the ground, they're in either yellow vests, yellow hats, something
kind of you know, marking that they're not part of
the the actual rioting and protesting apparatus. They're just there
(09:49):
to document and help get these rioters out of trouble.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And so, you know, an.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Example would be the rioters have just thrown a Molotov
cocktail or launched a mortar firework at ice officers, or
punch them or beat them or thrown rocks at them.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
But then the police will then track.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Down ostensibly National Lawyers Guild or a CLU observers are
there to only get the exculpatory evidence, say this is
a police brutality event.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Look at how awful these these ice officers are.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You know, how how challenging.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
You know, we've got the Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Now obviously to the roundtable which you're a part of.
They've designated in TIFA terrorist organization. The Treasury Department has
said that, you know, it's working in tandem with you know,
kind of a whole government approach on some of this stuff,
like how many degrees of separation are there for some
of these guys in terms of where the money goes,
(10:46):
where it ends up, Like how difficult do you think
it would be for like the Treasury Department or the FBI,
or however it goes to tie you know, some of
these leftists to uh, you know, like armed riots and
some of the stuff that would.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Enter into like a legal territory.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
It's it's it's exceptionally difficult, I would say, because they
are very well organized, very well trained, and they're pretty
savvy about it. I mean some of the some of
the you know knuckleheads you see uh and you say, oh,
that's an ANTIFA person.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
That's not like the that's like the JV squad that
I and I what I've seen and with.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
The people, you know, I've talked to the people on
the ground, Andy No and others up in Portland and Seattle.
They're saying that the people who you're seeing in Chicago
currently engage in these direct actions against the deportation detention facilities.
These are the JV Squad, the real Varsity, Antifa, the ogs,
they've they've kind of gone to ground. I mean some
(11:48):
of them have fled the country. They're taking President Trump's
uh uh, you know, crackdown very seriously. But the people
are experienced at this. They i mean again, they get training,
they know to keep separate the finances especially, and so
because of the decentralized nature, it makes it very hard
for a citizen and a journalist to follow the money,
(12:10):
for civilians to do that all the way down into
the pockets of ANTIFA, because they raise their funding in
a variety of ways.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I mean, we've actually tracked it to the kind of.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
The go fund me, but it's venmo, it's cash app
it's cash. And so once you once you get to
the entities that don't have LLCs or art incorporated, like Antifa,
there's other groups the John Brown Gun.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Club, the Socialist Rightful Association.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
These are really like clubs with chapters all across the country.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Law enforcement is going to have to use those tools. Now.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
I would say that Treasury, FBI Homeland Security, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
They do have the tools to be able to map it.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
But again it's clear that these antifa types are very
well aware of kind of being decentralized using crypto et cetera.
Now we'd find one platform called open well, we found
two direct what is it called the Action Network and
Open Collective, and they have not you know, I'm not
alleging they've done anything criminal, but they do provide It's
(13:13):
basically like a go fund me, like Conservative set up
gibsend go because GoFundMe was woke or.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
What have you. These Open Collective and.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Action Network are like specifically tailored to these protest groups
they have.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Like so if you are.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Rose City Antifa, or the Armed Players of Salt Lake
City or the John Brown Gun Club of Elm Fork,
which was linked by the way to a shooting of
an ice officer in Texas, you can go there and
set up a page just like a Facebook page or
something and say we're the Portland Socialist Rifle Association and
(13:52):
it provides all of these mechanisms for funding. It's kind
of like you maybe like substack, you know, set up
a monthly subscription five dollars ten dollars. But what we
found is five hundred dollars donations by anonymous So we
can't peel back the layers and see who gave five
hundred dollars to the Socialist Rightful Association or the Antifa group,
(14:12):
But there are digital platforms raising money for them, and
we did find that Open Collective received nearly three million dollars.
Because it is a nonprofit ostensibly it received three million
dollars from these Arabella Soros tides funding networks.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You know when you look at you know, I know,
sex Very Gnomus told me this that you know, you
go to some of these riots and it's like they
all have the same gear, they all have the same shields,
Like it's it's very uniform. I guess, you know, kind
of where are the lines in terms of you mean,
that seems to be like you're intentionally funding like a
(14:53):
riot or an insurrect rate or criminal activity. You know,
talk a little bit about that coordination and of like
where these people get the gear from and who they
get it from.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Yeah, absolutely, so I mean there's there's the coordination is
I mean, when you the deeper you look at it,
the deeper, it's it's just like it's mind boggling how
well coordinated they are and how it's I mean they're
traveling city to city as far as where they're getting
the gear. I mean, some people have found that it's
like it came from Amazon. Again, we can't really track
the well whose Amazon account was used to buy some
(15:28):
of these face shields or the you know, the gas masks,
et cetera. But yeah, it costs a lot of money,
and U haul trucks and storage units have been identified.
There's this headquarters in Portland, you know, an Antifa like
headquarters or safe houses and other term people are using.
That's very expensive real estate that costs money. And just
(15:49):
the fact that people are spending weeks and months with no.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Apparent job, just causing chaos and mayhem.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
You know, people got to eat now that when I
say speak to the coordination, it's like on this site
Open Collective, and there's other sites too, Like there's there's
this term mutual aid that they use, which is like
basically like CouchSurfing and stuff, so that there is a
lot of coordination where they look out for each other.
You know, various businesses in Portland or Seattle will kind
of identify themselves as a mutual aid supplier, so they're
(16:21):
kind of, you know, proviting aid and comfort to what
the administration has declared our domestic terrorists.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So again the coordination is kind of crazy.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And then I would as far as the big funding networks,
they we know for a.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Fact they're going to say, and they have said that.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
What we make every grant recipient sign a contract saying
that I promise I won't engage in a legal activity,
and that'll probably hold up pretty well in many courts
that well, look, we didn't know. Now what I would
say is probably that.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
So some of this money is from taxpayers, then, is
what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Well, and now well there's well, well that's a that's
a separate issue. And yes, a huge amount of the
money flows into the big funding networks, tides the Arabella
Soros funding networks.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Rockefeller gets a ton of tax payer money and.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
It goes we tracked over one hundred million dollars, finds
its way into these groups which then distribute money's fungible.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It is the exact entity funding.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
There was an event down in Atlanta, for example, called
stop Coop City, where more than sixty rioters were charged
with things like domestic terrorism, violent assault on law enforcement,
arsen et cetera. Those were directly funded by TIDES. Like
the organization was called Network for Strong Communities. TIDES gave
one hundred and sixty thousand dollars, and this was a
(17:40):
pretty small organization. All of its executives were charged with
violent crimes for the attack.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
On law enforcement in Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
TIES receives tens of millions of dollars taxpayer dollars, so
it's not a very it's not a meandering path.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's like taxpayers give to TIDES.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
TIDES gives two groups that have its executives get arrested
for viol crime.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So it's pretty straightforward there.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
But just real quick on the grants that they give.
So tithes will make Network for Strong Communities sign an
agreement in order to get there one hundred and sixty
thousand dollars. They will make that entity sign an agreement
and say we're not going to do anything illegal. Then
it goes and does something illegal, and TIDE says, hey,
we had no idea that it was going to do this.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Well, first of all, you can kind of look.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
At their history and see that they've been doing this
kind of rioting and protesting for a long time. I
would say that they didn't the funding network tides in
this case, or it would be a Soros or an
Arabella type thing.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I would say they didn't do their due diligence.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
But I'd say the bail funds are really kind of
a smoking gun because they are pouring tens of millions
of dollars into bail funds and like they're billing out
like people who have already been charged. So it's like
the crime has already been committed, and you're trying to
get this person who probably belongs there for a number
of years. You're trying to get them out overnight. And
in many cases, these violent criminals are bailed out overnight.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
You know what I had? I was on Fox and
Friends and we interviewed Secretary Nome and she broke some
news about how some of these ICE agents and officers
and agents have had bounties put on their head for
two thousand to kidnap them, ten thousand to kill them.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Their pictures are released through.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Different networks, and I'd asked her, well, you know who's
behind it, and she said, gangs, cartel members, and foreign
terrorist organizations. As deemed by the President. You know, we've
referenced some of the domestic terrorism happening here in the
United States. How linked is it to foreign terror groups?
Like what's the like coordination or correlation between the two.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And it's a great question.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I've mostly been focusing on the domestic of course. Nevill
Roy Singham, he's.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
Got a lot of overt lap with like the Party
for Socialism and Liberation, and I would say he's the
one we've looked at the most with like ties to
radical foreign groups potentially terror groups.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
You know, there's another one.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Care the Council on American is Relations, which has historically
always been you know, in the news for its potential
ties to terrorist groups.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
HAIR is very very much involved in a lot of
this stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
And there's other groups too, like the PFLP is tied
to some of the SIGAM entity.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
So the connections are there.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Of course, these are very sophisticated NGOs in the US
who have been at this for a very long time,
so they know how to kind of keep the accounts
separate from from foreign terror groups. Because and that came
up at the White House round table was well one
of the reporters asked like, have you considered, President Trump,
have you considered designating Antifa a.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Foreign terror organization?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
And it had been right when Secretary of State Rubio
had walked in to pull the President away for the
ceasefire and peace deal talks, but Marco Rubio was right there,
and Trump turns to him and says, what.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Do you think, Marco?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Should we designate Antifa foreign terrorist organization? And Secretary of
Rubio kind of said, yeah, let's look into it. I
don't know if that will actually happen, but I can
say that when you designate a group a foreign terror organization,
there are even more tools to get The left is
saying right now that, oh, domestic terror organization doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It's not necessarily true.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
It's kind of like a forcing function of getting the
entire administration to have a whole of government approach to
take the Antifa violence threats seriously by designating in a
foreign terror organization. And I would say that there's absolutely
evidence that this is a foreign group. We don't have
a whole lot of visibility into the foreign funding, but
you just look at this website. I mentioned anti Open Collective,
(21:38):
which allows Antifa to fundraise from anonymous sources. There are
Antifa chapters all over the world, and so it certainly
isn't just in only a domestic groups. It's in Europe,
it's in you know, other countries, South America, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
You know, we look at don't Trump designated Antifa a
domestic terrorist organization?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
As we've established?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
How does that?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
How much does that help?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know? I know Antifa is like very decentralized, Like how.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Difficult would it be to sort of disrupt that? Like,
talk to me a.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Little bit about that, because my minor sittings are sort
of like intentionally decentralized for those types of reasons.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, talk a little bit like does a designation help?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Like how do you how do you see it?
Speaker 4 (22:29):
What it What it does is that it tells and
they I mean, you know, you got to you gotta
give the administration credit for having something like the roundtable,
which is very much in the public, uh, you know,
like it was a televised event and you know, speaking
quite openly about the administration's plans, whereas the FBI has
(22:50):
been infiltrating terror groups since forever.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
So, I mean, it's this isn't anything new.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
The left is kind of hyperventilated like, oh my gosh,
she's he's going full fascist or when ever. But you
know this is the FBI has done this for a
very long time. As far as the designation, what it
does is it sort of tells every official, the Attorney
General Bondi or FBI Director Patel, this is an administration priority.
You could have done it in a memo it says
(23:16):
it's a really really strong priority they have charged to individuals,
which I think enhances the penalties. But what's been going
on for years now is that the antifa rioters will
go assault law enforcement. They'll go burn a car, they'll
go try to set fire to an ice facility, and.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Then they'll get arrested by maybe maybe they'll get.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Arrested by local police, Portland police, Seattle police, et cetera.
And then they'll get out overnight because the city the
mayor is not taking it seriously.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
We're seeing that obviously in Portland right now.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
They're actually sort of on the side of the you know,
so called anti fascists. And so when you make this
designation one it like it tells the Justice Department, most
importantly Homeland Security, that federal crimes need to be filed
here like in any way that these people can be
charged with federal crimes because then you can't get them
(24:08):
out out overnight, and it emboldens them by the way
it emboldens the violent Antifa members when they just get
a slap on the wrist and then they're back on
the street the next day. When you get arrested by
the Feds and you go to federal prison for ten
years for committing you know, federal assaults on federal officers,
and and it's enhanced with like you know, terror designation.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I think a lot you're going to see this.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Crackdown, I believe work once once a few people get
charged with federal crimes and are not going to be
getting out of jail anytime soon. But to your point,
they it's going to be like wackable because all they
have to do is stop calling themselves anti fascist or antifa,
and they'll say, well, I'm not a member of Antifa,
I'm just a member of like some new thing called
(24:52):
pro democracy. We're pro deems or something, and they can
change their name easily.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
They can, you know, get rid of.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Their Antifa flag and make a new flag and continue
to commit the crimes that they are committing, which is
why my point was, this is a much bigger ecosystem.
Why we call it the protest industrial complex rioting. It's
so much bigger than just Antifa. You really have to
go after the funding sources that enable all of this chaos,
(25:20):
which means, no, no, you're not going to be charging
the ACLU or the National Lawyer's Guild with domestic terrorism,
but if they are funding or enabling criminal behavior. This
is kind of where you get back into what President
Trump posted a few months back about RICO. Now, RICO
is a very tough thing to prove, but if you
(25:40):
have an entire ecosystem network of people funding and enabling
criminal activity, and if you can prove that, then you
can actually start to try to kind of dismantle and
disrupt the funding sources. And I think that's the only
way you can really stop this chaos.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Do they even believe in anything? Because it seems to
be the same people who are like part of Black
Lives Matter, who then you know, are with the Palestinians
and hate Israel, but then also are like the same
people who hate Ice and you know what I mean,
Like it seems like they're just like hate squads and
it doesn't matter, like do they have any core beliefs
(26:22):
or is it just like anarchy and anti government.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
It's a great question.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
You know, it varies person by person, but I mean,
you're right, a lot of these people are kind of
just malcontents.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
The guy sitting next to me, I'll give him a shout.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Out Jonathan Choe of Turning Point USA, and he did
a report with the Capital Research Center that was titled Infiltrated,
and it's all about how the homelessness industrial complex like all,
there's all.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You'd be stunned to know the number of groups that are.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Purporting to help fix the homelessness crisis, especially you know
in Gavin Newsom's California where eighteen billion dollars, where did
it go?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It went to groups like these ones.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
And what what this report shows is that, uh, these
homelessness advocacy groups have been totally infiltrated by radical leftists
who are now taking advantage in exploiting homeless people.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Bringing them into the cause. A lot of people like uh,
you know, Cam Higbee was on the ground in Portland.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
He was interviewing various ANTIFA members who sort of undercover
and several others were there. They they all told me
the same thing instead at the White House, that the
homeless like there's a huge homeless contingent and people who
shouldn't be able to travel between Chicago and Portland and
Seattle don't have the resources or somehow finding their way
there and just you know, causing causing chaos.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So I think they are paid agitators.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Finding that, I think that's going to be a law
enforcement job of like how they're getting paid, Like if it's.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Cash, I can't I can't do that from here.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
But you know, I think I think we're gonna find
out a lot more, especially like because it's finally being
taken seriously.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
You know, we've all suspected for years that you know,
you see a.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Video of someone handing out you know, cash to various agitators. Uh,
they're going to have to really do like tough law
enforcement work.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Of get it, getting them to flip.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
You know, true believers are going to be you know,
they'll probably go down with the ship. But some of
them are going to say, you know, I'm facing ten
years in federal prison.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I'm going to give up.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
You know, the guy who funded me and who paid
me in cash and.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
So yeah, I think it's gonna take take a while.
I don't think it's you know, we'll see if the
National Guard goes into Portland, maybe that'll be able to
clean it up.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And you know, but I think they're gonna bide their time.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
I mean, this is just a tactic, a color revolution tactic.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
And then, Shamus, before we go, where can I know
we had you on recently to talk about your latest book,
Control of Guards, But where can people continue to follow
your work?
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Yeah, I'm on, I'm on all platforms at Seamus Bruner, Shamus's.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Se A m U S. Bruner v R U N
E R.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Mostly on where that's where I spend mostly, but I
got Instagram and others.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
That's probably the best place you can find.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Our investigations at the Drilldown dot com. That's where Peter
Schweitzer hosts his podcast, The drill Down dot Com, and
that's where all of our investigations and receipts are posted.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Awesome, well, very interesting stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
We'll continue to follow it. We'd love to have you
back on and check back in about.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Where everything is going. So appreciate you making the time, Seamus.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Thank you Lisa. That was Seamus Bruner.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Appreciate him for making the time to come on the show.
Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday.
You can listen throughout the week. I also want to
thank John.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Cassio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time,
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get
to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today,
we're joined by Shamus Bruner. He is the director of
research at the Government and Accountability Institute. We've also had
him on the podcast to talk about his book Control
of Guards, but he was recently at the White House
Roundtable to talk about Antifa, to talk about the funding
into some of these left wing groups, which is a specialty.
(00:23):
Now we're talking, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars
that have gone to some of these left wing groups,
these Antifa linked groups as well. He's also identified some
billionaire funders whose name might not be as familiar to you,
this individual novelle Roy Singham, who allegedly has ties to
the CCP. So we're going to dig into all of this,
(00:43):
who's funding all of this, why are they funding it?
And now that we know the Trump administration is doing
a whole of government approach to dig into the funding
and also to disrupt some of these groups like Antifa, where.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Is this all heading.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What will they find Shamus Brunner about that and so
much more.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Stay with us.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, Seamus Berner, It's great to have you on the show.
I'm really looking forward to this episode and hearing from you.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
You know, obviously there's been a lot to talk about.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Antifa lately and trying to get into the root of
a lot of this leftist funding, and you're the guy
to ask those questions too, So appreciate you making the time, Lisa.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
It's always a pleasure to join you on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
There were some recently some news articles kind of focusing
on what you guys discussed at this roundtable with the
White House that we'll dive into. But it seems like
some of these left wing groups are starting a panic
a little bit as a result of some of the
research that you've done and you've put forward, and now
(01:48):
the White House has heightened attention to it. You know,
talk about that, talk about the panic, and talk a
little bit about some of this breaking news that has
come forward.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So when President Trump posted it would be a couple
of months ago actually that George Soros and his son
should be investigated under RICO, this was before the assassination
of Charlie Kirk and that's really around the time that
this all starts. I mean, there had been a no
King's protest back in June. There had been a bunch
(02:22):
of anti ICE riots all throughout, you know, ever since
Trump was inaugurated out in the Los Angeles, across the country, fires, arsons,
et cetera. And so there's been kind of just this
culture of unrest that the left has been fomenting, and
we've been following the money to see who is backing this.
So back when LA was experiencing it's anti Ice Day
(02:44):
of rage, we found that Neville Roy Singham, this foreign
billionaire who lives in China, who has been funding unrest
going back to BLM and all kinds of division in
our country, he had been funding some of the groups
out in LA.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And so we just we've been acting it for several months.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
In the wake of the Charlie Kirk assassination, we have
been just unalarmed at the number of people who are
celebrating and and sort of just this condoning of violence
against political targets.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And so that is really what.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Kicked off Trump designating Antifa as a domestic terror organization.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
And then after President Trump made.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
That designation, he called together this White House roundtable about
two weeks back, and so it was a number of journalists,
many of them who have been on the front lines
face to face with Antifa, you know, Andy No, Julio Rosa,
Savanna Hernandez, and so many others who have been actually
physically assaulted, attacked, brutally attacked. And I was kind of
(03:49):
the one guy there who I've not been beaten up
by Antifa.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Thankfully.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
That's good. Let's keep it that way.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
I would like to keep it away that way, but
let's keep it that But I was to follow them guy,
and what I said to President Trump and the cabinet
was that, you know, we've tracked this money to what.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
We call the protest industrial complex. We call it Riot Inc.
And like many corporations, Riot Inc. Has many divisions. It's
got the boots on the ground division, but it also
has a pr.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Division and a communications division.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
It also has a very well funded legal division that
helps get these violent criminals out of jail as soon
as possible back onto the streets. Things like the bail
funds that instantly get basically overnight, people have committed violent
crimes are then back out on the streets the next
day to attack our law enforcement officials. So the thing
(04:40):
that we are focusing on the most are the investors
in rioting. So we followed the money to the top
of the big NGO funding networks. I mean, yes, of course,
George Soros and the Open Society Institutes are our major funders.
There's also lesser known funding networks like the Arabella network,
the Tie network.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I mentioned Singham.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
He's got a huge protest funding mechanism called.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
The People's Forum. It's in New York. And then there's
a few others.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Rockefeller of course pours a ton of money into this system,
but the big ones are really Tides, Arabella, and Soros
funding networks.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I guess it's just the way the news is going
these days. But it feels like the roundtable.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Was like yesterday.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
It's like life just flies by these days, and you know,
there's so much going on. I feel like, you know,
it moves so quickly. So yeah, so you talked about
Riot the post.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Industrial complex, right, inc.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now you've traced a lot of money going into these groups.
You know this Singham guy. Tell me a little bit
more about him, and I'm just started to hear his
name recently. How long has he been on your map
and your radar?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
So my colleague Peter Schweitzer wrote a huge book called
Blood Money a couple of years ago, I want to say,
maybe twenty twenty three or four, and that had a
whole chapter on Neville or Roy Singham.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Neville Roy Singham, I think he goes by Roy and
so he is.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
He sold his tech company, it was called thought Works
in twenty eighteen, I believe, for close to a billion dollars.
He's married to the head of Code Pink, which, for
those who don't know what Code Pink, it's another one
of these radical extremist groups. They were probably most recently
in the news when they disrupted President Trump had gone
to dinner with some of his advisors and all of
(06:33):
a sudden, spontaneous chaos orrups at the restaurant and all
of these people start shrieking at him and getting in
his face. It really didn't look like a security threat.
I mean, there were inches away from the President's Secret Service.
Got rid of them pretty quickly, got him out of there.
But Code Pink has been huge in the protest industrial complex.
He Nevill Roy Singham funds, of course Code Pink, but
(06:55):
he has this thing in New York called the People's
for Him and it distributes money to all kinds of
radical groups. I mean, the protests that turned into violent
riots out in Los Angeles were organized in part by
a group called CHURLA, the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights
Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
He funds again BLM.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Actually he popped back up on our radar pretty recently
after the Charlie Kirk assassination.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
There was this group Armed Queers.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Of Salt Lake City, and the New York Post reported
that the FBI was investigating them for potential knowledge of
the assassination ahead of time. There's no evidence, I'll be
clear that they were linked to the Kirk assassination. But
when we started looking into this group Armed Queers of
Salt Lake City, which is exactly like what it sounds.
I mean, they go to the shooting range and you
(07:44):
know he just planned for I guess they say defensive maneuvers.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
But they were flown down.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
In this group from Salt Lake City to Cuba of
all places, and participated in a Nevill Roy Singham backed
Marxist revolution lutionary training event. He's actually helped fund at
least eight hundred groups, I mean, whether.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
It's BLM or other radical.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Groups like that ANTIFA types, to go down to Cuba
and learn from real revolutionaries on how to overthrow countries.
The Armed Queers of Salt Lake City, they posted all
of these videos of the event. We were able to
screen grab them before they completely went dark.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And they did that, by the way, that before they
were announced to be under investigation.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
I think that's one of the things that the FBI
found suspicious is around the time of Charlie Kirk's assassination,
they just started taking all of their content off of Instagram, Facebook.
They had substack articles talking about how to overthrow the US.
So the point is is Nevilroy Singham is what we
would consider a foreign investor in rioting.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
He lives in Shanghai.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Why does he live in China?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
He's very pro CCP. Ironically, he funds a lot of
things in the.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
US that the CCP would never be on board with
Armed Queers.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So is the American. I believe he's got.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Either dual citizenship or he may He may be an American,
but he does not spend the most most of his
time here.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
He spends it in China.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Interesting, and in these groups like Antifa, they have lawyers
who protect them with the National Lawyers Guild. Talk a
little bit about these what do we know about these
lawyers and and sort of like their ties to these
left wing groups.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Yeah, I mean that's that's definitely one of the most
well funded. That's where a lot of the money goes
to his lawyers at things like the ACLU. The National
Lawyers Guild is like a more extreme version of the
a c l U. And what they're theirs. They're on
the ground, they're in either yellow vests, yellow hats, something
kind of you know, marking that they're not part of
the the actual rioting and protesting apparatus. They're just there
(09:49):
to document and help get these rioters out of trouble.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And so, you know, an.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Example would be the rioters have just thrown a Molotov
cocktail or launched a mortar firework at ice officers, or
punch them or beat them or thrown rocks at them.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
But then the police will then track.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Down ostensibly National Lawyers Guild or a CLU observers are
there to only get the exculpatory evidence, say this is
a police brutality event.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Look at how awful these these ice officers are.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You know, how how challenging.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
You know, we've got the Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Now obviously to the roundtable which you're a part of.
They've designated in TIFA terrorist organization. The Treasury Department has
said that, you know, it's working in tandem with you know,
kind of a whole government approach on some of this stuff,
like how many degrees of separation are there for some
of these guys in terms of where the money goes,
(10:46):
where it ends up, Like how difficult do you think
it would be for like the Treasury Department or the FBI,
or however it goes to tie you know, some of
these leftists to uh, you know, like armed riots and
some of the stuff that would.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Enter into like a legal territory.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
It's it's it's exceptionally difficult, I would say, because they
are very well organized, very well trained, and they're pretty
savvy about it. I mean some of the some of
the you know knuckleheads you see uh and you say, oh,
that's an ANTIFA person.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
That's not like the that's like the JV squad that
I and I what I've seen and with.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
The people, you know, I've talked to the people on
the ground, Andy No and others up in Portland and Seattle.
They're saying that the people who you're seeing in Chicago
currently engage in these direct actions against the deportation detention facilities.
These are the JV Squad, the real Varsity, Antifa, the ogs,
they've they've kind of gone to ground. I mean some
(11:48):
of them have fled the country. They're taking President Trump's
uh uh, you know, crackdown very seriously. But the people
are experienced at this. They i mean again, they get training,
they know to keep separate the finances especially, and so
because of the decentralized nature, it makes it very hard
for a citizen and a journalist to follow the money,
(12:10):
for civilians to do that all the way down into
the pockets of ANTIFA, because they raise their funding in
a variety of ways.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I mean, we've actually tracked it to the kind of.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
The go fund me, but it's venmo, it's cash app
it's cash. And so once you once you get to
the entities that don't have LLCs or art incorporated, like Antifa,
there's other groups the John Brown Gun.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Club, the Socialist Rightful Association.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
These are really like clubs with chapters all across the country.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Law enforcement is going to have to use those tools. Now.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
I would say that Treasury, FBI Homeland Security, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
They do have the tools to be able to map it.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
But again it's clear that these antifa types are very
well aware of kind of being decentralized using crypto et cetera.
Now we'd find one platform called open well, we found
two direct what is it called the Action Network and
Open Collective, and they have not you know, I'm not
alleging they've done anything criminal, but they do provide It's
(13:13):
basically like a go fund me, like Conservative set up
gibsend go because GoFundMe was woke or.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
What have you. These Open Collective and.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Action Network are like specifically tailored to these protest groups
they have.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Like so if you are.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Rose City Antifa, or the Armed Players of Salt Lake
City or the John Brown Gun Club of Elm Fork,
which was linked by the way to a shooting of
an ice officer in Texas, you can go there and
set up a page just like a Facebook page or
something and say we're the Portland Socialist Rifle Association and
(13:52):
it provides all of these mechanisms for funding. It's kind
of like you maybe like substack, you know, set up
a monthly subscription five dollars ten dollars. But what we
found is five hundred dollars donations by anonymous So we
can't peel back the layers and see who gave five
hundred dollars to the Socialist Rightful Association or the Antifa group,
(14:12):
But there are digital platforms raising money for them, and
we did find that Open Collective received nearly three million dollars.
Because it is a nonprofit ostensibly it received three million
dollars from these Arabella Soros tides funding networks.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You know when you look at you know, I know,
sex Very Gnomus told me this that you know, you
go to some of these riots and it's like they
all have the same gear, they all have the same shields,
Like it's it's very uniform. I guess, you know, kind
of where are the lines in terms of you mean,
that seems to be like you're intentionally funding like a
(14:53):
riot or an insurrect rate or criminal activity. You know,
talk a little bit about that coordination and of like
where these people get the gear from and who they
get it from.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Yeah, absolutely, so I mean there's there's the coordination is
I mean, when you the deeper you look at it,
the deeper, it's it's just like it's mind boggling how
well coordinated they are and how it's I mean they're
traveling city to city as far as where they're getting
the gear. I mean, some people have found that it's
like it came from Amazon. Again, we can't really track
the well whose Amazon account was used to buy some
(15:28):
of these face shields or the you know, the gas masks,
et cetera. But yeah, it costs a lot of money,
and U haul trucks and storage units have been identified.
There's this headquarters in Portland, you know, an Antifa like
headquarters or safe houses and other term people are using.
That's very expensive real estate that costs money. And just
(15:49):
the fact that people are spending weeks and months with no.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Apparent job, just causing chaos and mayhem.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
You know, people got to eat now that when I
say speak to the coordination, it's like on this site
Open Collective, and there's other sites too, Like there's there's
this term mutual aid that they use, which is like
basically like CouchSurfing and stuff, so that there is a
lot of coordination where they look out for each other.
You know, various businesses in Portland or Seattle will kind
of identify themselves as a mutual aid supplier, so they're
(16:21):
kind of, you know, proviting aid and comfort to what
the administration has declared our domestic terrorists.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So again the coordination is kind of crazy.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And then I would as far as the big funding networks,
they we know for a.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Fact they're going to say, and they have said that.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
What we make every grant recipient sign a contract saying
that I promise I won't engage in a legal activity,
and that'll probably hold up pretty well in many courts
that well, look, we didn't know. Now what I would
say is probably that.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
So some of this money is from taxpayers, then, is
what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Well, and now well there's well, well that's a that's
a separate issue. And yes, a huge amount of the
money flows into the big funding networks, tides the Arabella
Soros funding networks.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Rockefeller gets a ton of tax payer money and.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
It goes we tracked over one hundred million dollars, finds
its way into these groups which then distribute money's fungible.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It is the exact entity funding.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
There was an event down in Atlanta, for example, called
stop Coop City, where more than sixty rioters were charged
with things like domestic terrorism, violent assault on law enforcement,
arsen et cetera. Those were directly funded by TIDES. Like
the organization was called Network for Strong Communities. TIDES gave
one hundred and sixty thousand dollars, and this was a
(17:40):
pretty small organization. All of its executives were charged with
violent crimes for the attack.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
On law enforcement in Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
TIES receives tens of millions of dollars taxpayer dollars, so
it's not a very it's not a meandering path.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's like taxpayers give to TIDES.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
TIDES gives two groups that have its executives get arrested
for viol crime.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So it's pretty straightforward there.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
But just real quick on the grants that they give.
So tithes will make Network for Strong Communities sign an
agreement in order to get there one hundred and sixty
thousand dollars. They will make that entity sign an agreement
and say we're not going to do anything illegal. Then
it goes and does something illegal, and TIDE says, hey,
we had no idea that it was going to do this.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Well, first of all, you can kind of look.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
At their history and see that they've been doing this
kind of rioting and protesting for a long time. I
would say that they didn't the funding network tides in
this case, or it would be a Soros or an
Arabella type thing.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I would say they didn't do their due diligence.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
But I'd say the bail funds are really kind of
a smoking gun because they are pouring tens of millions
of dollars into bail funds and like they're billing out
like people who have already been charged. So it's like
the crime has already been committed, and you're trying to
get this person who probably belongs there for a number
of years. You're trying to get them out overnight. And
in many cases, these violent criminals are bailed out overnight.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
You know what I had? I was on Fox and
Friends and we interviewed Secretary Nome and she broke some
news about how some of these ICE agents and officers
and agents have had bounties put on their head for
two thousand to kidnap them, ten thousand to kill them.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Their pictures are released through.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Different networks, and I'd asked her, well, you know who's
behind it, and she said, gangs, cartel members, and foreign
terrorist organizations. As deemed by the President. You know, we've
referenced some of the domestic terrorism happening here in the
United States. How linked is it to foreign terror groups?
Like what's the like coordination or correlation between the two.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And it's a great question.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I've mostly been focusing on the domestic of course. Nevill
Roy Singham, he's.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
Got a lot of overt lap with like the Party
for Socialism and Liberation, and I would say he's the
one we've looked at the most with like ties to
radical foreign groups potentially terror groups.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
You know, there's another one.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Care the Council on American is Relations, which has historically
always been you know, in the news for its potential
ties to terrorist groups.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
HAIR is very very much involved in a lot of
this stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
And there's other groups too, like the PFLP is tied
to some of the SIGAM entity.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
So the connections are there.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Of course, these are very sophisticated NGOs in the US
who have been at this for a very long time,
so they know how to kind of keep the accounts
separate from from foreign terror groups. Because and that came
up at the White House round table was well one
of the reporters asked like, have you considered, President Trump,
have you considered designating Antifa a.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Foreign terror organization?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
And it had been right when Secretary of State Rubio
had walked in to pull the President away for the
ceasefire and peace deal talks, but Marco Rubio was right there,
and Trump turns to him and says, what.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Do you think, Marco?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Should we designate Antifa foreign terrorist organization? And Secretary of
Rubio kind of said, yeah, let's look into it. I
don't know if that will actually happen, but I can
say that when you designate a group a foreign terror organization,
there are even more tools to get The left is
saying right now that, oh, domestic terror organization doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It's not necessarily true.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
It's kind of like a forcing function of getting the
entire administration to have a whole of government approach to
take the Antifa violence threats seriously by designating in a
foreign terror organization. And I would say that there's absolutely
evidence that this is a foreign group. We don't have
a whole lot of visibility into the foreign funding, but
you just look at this website. I mentioned anti Open Collective,
(21:38):
which allows Antifa to fundraise from anonymous sources. There are
Antifa chapters all over the world, and so it certainly
isn't just in only a domestic groups. It's in Europe,
it's in you know, other countries, South America, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
You know, we look at don't Trump designated Antifa a
domestic terrorist organization?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
As we've established?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
How does that?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
How much does that help?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know? I know Antifa is like very decentralized, Like how.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Difficult would it be to sort of disrupt that? Like,
talk to me a.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Little bit about that, because my minor sittings are sort
of like intentionally decentralized for those types of reasons.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, talk a little bit like does a designation help?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Like how do you how do you see it?
Speaker 4 (22:29):
What it What it does is that it tells and
they I mean, you know, you got to you gotta
give the administration credit for having something like the roundtable,
which is very much in the public, uh, you know,
like it was a televised event and you know, speaking
quite openly about the administration's plans, whereas the FBI has
(22:50):
been infiltrating terror groups since forever.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
So, I mean, it's this isn't anything new.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
The left is kind of hyperventilated like, oh my gosh,
she's he's going full fascist or when ever. But you
know this is the FBI has done this for a
very long time. As far as the designation, what it
does is it sort of tells every official, the Attorney
General Bondi or FBI Director Patel, this is an administration priority.
You could have done it in a memo it says
(23:16):
it's a really really strong priority they have charged to individuals,
which I think enhances the penalties. But what's been going
on for years now is that the antifa rioters will
go assault law enforcement. They'll go burn a car, they'll
go try to set fire to an ice facility, and.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Then they'll get arrested by maybe maybe they'll get.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Arrested by local police, Portland police, Seattle police, et cetera.
And then they'll get out overnight because the city the
mayor is not taking it seriously.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
We're seeing that obviously in Portland right now.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
They're actually sort of on the side of the you know,
so called anti fascists. And so when you make this
designation one it like it tells the Justice Department, most
importantly Homeland Security, that federal crimes need to be filed
here like in any way that these people can be
charged with federal crimes because then you can't get them
(24:08):
out out overnight, and it emboldens them by the way
it emboldens the violent Antifa members when they just get
a slap on the wrist and then they're back on
the street the next day. When you get arrested by
the Feds and you go to federal prison for ten
years for committing you know, federal assaults on federal officers,
and and it's enhanced with like you know, terror designation.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I think a lot you're going to see this.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Crackdown, I believe work once once a few people get
charged with federal crimes and are not going to be
getting out of jail anytime soon. But to your point,
they it's going to be like wackable because all they
have to do is stop calling themselves anti fascist or antifa,
and they'll say, well, I'm not a member of Antifa,
I'm just a member of like some new thing called
(24:52):
pro democracy. We're pro deems or something, and they can
change their name easily.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
They can, you know, get rid of.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Their Antifa flag and make a new flag and continue
to commit the crimes that they are committing, which is
why my point was, this is a much bigger ecosystem.
Why we call it the protest industrial complex rioting. It's
so much bigger than just Antifa. You really have to
go after the funding sources that enable all of this chaos,
(25:20):
which means, no, no, you're not going to be charging
the ACLU or the National Lawyer's Guild with domestic terrorism,
but if they are funding or enabling criminal behavior. This
is kind of where you get back into what President
Trump posted a few months back about RICO. Now, RICO
is a very tough thing to prove, but if you
(25:40):
have an entire ecosystem network of people funding and enabling
criminal activity, and if you can prove that, then you
can actually start to try to kind of dismantle and
disrupt the funding sources. And I think that's the only
way you can really stop this chaos.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Do they even believe in anything? Because it seems to
be the same people who are like part of Black
Lives Matter, who then you know, are with the Palestinians
and hate Israel, but then also are like the same
people who hate Ice and you know what I mean,
Like it seems like they're just like hate squads and
it doesn't matter, like do they have any core beliefs
(26:22):
or is it just like anarchy and anti government.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
It's a great question.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
You know, it varies person by person, but I mean,
you're right, a lot of these people are kind of
just malcontents.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
The guy sitting next to me, I'll give him a shout.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Out Jonathan Choe of Turning Point USA, and he did
a report with the Capital Research Center that was titled Infiltrated,
and it's all about how the homelessness industrial complex like all,
there's all.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You'd be stunned to know the number of groups that are.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Purporting to help fix the homelessness crisis, especially you know
in Gavin Newsom's California where eighteen billion dollars, where did
it go?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It went to groups like these ones.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
And what what this report shows is that, uh, these
homelessness advocacy groups have been totally infiltrated by radical leftists
who are now taking advantage in exploiting homeless people.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Bringing them into the cause. A lot of people like uh,
you know, Cam Higbee was on the ground in Portland.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
He was interviewing various ANTIFA members who sort of undercover
and several others were there. They they all told me
the same thing instead at the White House, that the
homeless like there's a huge homeless contingent and people who
shouldn't be able to travel between Chicago and Portland and
Seattle don't have the resources or somehow finding their way
there and just you know, causing causing chaos.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So I think they are paid agitators.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Finding that, I think that's going to be a law
enforcement job of like how they're getting paid, Like if it's.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Cash, I can't I can't do that from here.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
But you know, I think I think we're gonna find
out a lot more, especially like because it's finally being
taken seriously.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
You know, we've all suspected for years that you know,
you see a.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Video of someone handing out you know, cash to various agitators. Uh,
they're going to have to really do like tough law
enforcement work.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Of get it, getting them to flip.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
You know, true believers are going to be you know,
they'll probably go down with the ship. But some of
them are going to say, you know, I'm facing ten
years in federal prison.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I'm going to give up.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
You know, the guy who funded me and who paid
me in cash and.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
So yeah, I think it's gonna take take a while.
I don't think it's you know, we'll see if the
National Guard goes into Portland, maybe that'll be able to
clean it up.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And you know, but I think they're gonna bide their time.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
I mean, this is just a tactic, a color revolution tactic.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
And then, Shamus, before we go, where can I know
we had you on recently to talk about your latest book,
Control of Guards, But where can people continue to follow
your work?
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Yeah, I'm on, I'm on all platforms at Seamus Bruner, Shamus's.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Se A m U S. Bruner v R U N
E R.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Mostly on where that's where I spend mostly, but I
got Instagram and others.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
That's probably the best place you can find.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Our investigations at the Drilldown dot com. That's where Peter
Schweitzer hosts his podcast, The drill Down dot Com, and
that's where all of our investigations and receipts are posted.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Awesome, well, very interesting stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
We'll continue to follow it. We'd love to have you
back on and check back in about.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Where everything is going. So appreciate you making the time, Seamus.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Thank you Lisa. That was Seamus Bruner.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Appreciate him for making the time to come on the show.
Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday.
You can listen throughout the week. I also want to
thank John.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Cassio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time,
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