In this episode, Secretary of Veteran Affairs Doug Collins discusses the challenges faced by veterans, including media misrepresentation, budget allocation, and the pressing issue of veteran suicides. He emphasizes the need for efficiency in government operations and the importance of public-private partnerships to improve veteran care. Collins also addresses the bureaucratic hurdles that veterans encounter when seeking benefits and advocates for a streamlined process to ensure timely assistance. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network. For more visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I am so excited
because we have the United States Secretary of Veteran Affairs,
Doug Collins with us. Thank you so much, mister Secretary,
for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Dude, it was good to see you today.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I want I want to start off with what you did.
I think it was last week with Caitlyn Collins because
she was going after you. I can't even remember what
she was going after you about, because you were so
good at handling this leftist, nasty media that will not
talk about our veterans.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
No, they didn't want to.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And look, we had discussed, it came up and that's
the signal issues at the messages, that's right. Yeah, and
so and look I'll tell my story here. That is
a sense that we had agreed to come on and
talk by veterans. And I don't mind tough questions, hard questions.
I mean, I've been doing this for twenty years in politics.
I get it, and that's fine. But what we want
to do is talk about the veterans. And so she
(00:55):
came on actually before the interview and was you know,
small child, like you know you've done on interviews before.
And she said, well, we're going to ask you about
the signal stuff, I said, and I told her, I said, Kaylyn,
that's fine, I said, but I'll answer it once. And
I don't want to dwell here. I said, we got
issues with veterans. I want to talk about that, and
she and she made it. I said, oh, no problem.
I got plenty of questions for about the about the
(01:17):
VA and veterans. I said, okay, so we got off,
so we get on the interview. Their first question was
about the signal is messaging issue.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I answered it.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
She came back with another question about the exact basically
the same thing, and I said, I said, Kaitlyn, I said,
I've already answered that question. I'm not going to have
anything else to expand on. I wasn't a part of it,
not going to do it. And then she went the
third time and this is baseball season, and that was
if she wasn't going to talk about it, talk about veterans,
then I wanted to talk about veterers on y CNN
(01:48):
has disrespected veterans into fane veterans and lost a court
case on defamation for five million dollars to a veteran
in Florida and the person who made one of the
comments when they're you said we're going to nail him.
They're still employed at.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Say and Him.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I thought that was genius. I mean, I've never seen
it done so well and so deserved that she would
be asked that question because and I didn't even know
that you had had the conversation ahead of time. I
think that's the beauty of being able to talk on
a podcast is to say, look, the background is that
we said, we'll answer it, but we want to talk
about veterans. And there's a lot of people right now
(02:27):
who feel like the leftist media is coming after you
saying you're getting rid of people, you're firing veterans, this
is not good for them. And I've heard you talk
about this a few times about how look to be
able to take care of veterans, we need that money
spent the right way. So I wanted you to be
able to answer it to that too, because I think
it's great that you were able to go after Caitlyn
(02:48):
Collins and point out the fact that she was being well,
she was being disrespectful to our veterans, but also she
never she never cared to find out what is actually
going on.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, I think that's the big problem here, Tootor. And
it's not Look, I hate it. I don't like to
have interviews that just go like that. But also I'm
not going to let anybody, not going to anybody talk
about about my Vesteran'm not gonna talk about about the
VA employees. But also at the same point in time,
you know, when you have a narrative, you know, we're
not going to just play along with your narrative.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think we I think.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Many times many of our side has sort of just
played the narrative and tried to defend I just am
not going to play the narrative that they want to have,
especially when that narrative is, you know, directly opposed to
what I'm trying to do is be a secretary. And look,
I've been here about two months now, We're going on
two months. In fact, I'm pretty much today close to
today of Mars two months and you know, all I'm
(03:40):
doing is fighting an you indo and rumor. And it's
out there that you know, depending on who you want
to listen to, which senator wants to tell, you know, stories, today,
you know, we've done everything from you know, shut down
the VA system and privatized it to you know, firing
eighty thousand people to you know, going back and forth,
and you name it.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
You know, we've done it.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
The truth of the matter is is that at this
point in time, due to some coret case and everything else,
basically there are staffing levels are the same except for
those who chose early retirement. But the bigger problem here too,
it is what people have got to understand. The VA
is bigger than the active duty Army. Let's just start
off here. We're bigger than the active duty Army.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Okay, what do you mean, like employee wise, employee wise,
that's crazy I have right now.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Pete could act.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Pete could mobilize the entire active duty Army for US,
and I could. I could best him by about twenty thousand.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It's actually terrifying.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It is because it's grown many times.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
And I've always said, I think you know, the hill
is when it comes to issues, and this has been
very true for a number of years when it's the
Congress and also your state legislation as well. It's very
true there too that if it's dealing with children or
dealing with veterans, nobody wants to be perceived as not
giving something to them.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
The issue is, though, is what are you giving? And
I think this is true for any issue that you have.
Is it giving just to appease your own conscience or
is it giving to make sure that we're actually, from
my perspective, putting VA services to veterans who've earned that
health benefit or that disability or other benefit. You know,
it could be housing, it could be educational, it could
(05:13):
be other things. You know, are we making that the
most appropriate way? So when I tell you that we have,
you know, four hundred and seventy raised thousand employees, you
know how big we are. We also have a budget
of three hundred and fifty billion. What is unknown to
most people, though, is over the last four years, we
added over one hundred billion, almost one hundred and fifty billion,
and I've averaged over eighty thousand employees, fifty full time,
(05:36):
about thirty part time. Ten years ago, we were less
than half of that.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Okay, what have you seen an improvement in veteran services?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's your problem.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
If that had worked, we should be the happiest department
on you know, we you know, we should be the
happiest department on earth.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
The problem is is it's not.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
For the last ten years GAO, the Government Accounting Office
has said that we're on the high risk list for
fraudways to abuse, patient care, patient quality. So for ten years,
the VA has increased its budget, you know, close to
two hundred thousand, you know, dollars two hundred billion dollars
I followed US two hundred billion, and you know, probably
somewhere close to one hundred and fifty or one thousand
(06:15):
more employees depending on you know, thseay ZACCHT numbers, spend
on when you want to look at it. But we've
increased money in size. But yet the metrics in our
healthcare system. You know, some systems, you know, some of
our medical centers are better, some or not. We have
you know, our case load has been very relatively flat
across this timeframe as well disability benefits that went up
(06:37):
because of Packpack and some other things. But what we're
looking at here is a system that for ten years
has been said, you know, look, it's not where it
needs to be. And yet all we do is put
money and people toward it without saying is it making
a difference. And I can tell you from a health
perspective sort of flat on metrics on a backlog perspective
for a benefit, we've actually got worse. So under Trump
(06:59):
it was under sixty thousand when I took up, excuse me,
when I took over, it was about two hundred and
thirty thousand backlog on disability benefits.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So with all that money and.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
People, we actually you know, went from under sixty to
over two hundred thousand in backlaw.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And we hear a lot about veteran suicides, and I
think that that's been kind of the talking point of
I guess the people who want to continue to grow
government is while you have this hanging over your head,
has that reduced it all in this period?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
No, it's not, And that's a really concern.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
You look at from two thousand and eight to two thousand,
you know, twenty four, twenty two, the last three numbers,
we stayed about between sixty four hundred and about in
the highs of almost close to seven thousand veterans death
by suicide each year.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And that's that's.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
The ones that we calculate the way our formulate process does.
There's some who out there who say it's actually more.
But the real issue you have up here, and this
is something for your listeners to be aware of is
that we've also have a budget about five hundred and
eighty eight million in prevention what has tagged as suicide prevention,
and also about two point three billion that is used
for treatment and uh, you know, counseling, the things that
(08:15):
are done to help people get out of that state.
So you're looking at about three billion dollars that has
been pretty consistent for about the last four to five years.
So if you add those numbers up, you're looking at,
you know, well over ten billion dollars that have been
spent in some form or fashional on suicide, and yet
our numbers haven't moved. So I've came in and started
asking different, you know, questions, why is it when I moved,
(08:37):
why are we not you know? And then I found
out even further. We spend a lot of our time
on our crisis line, which is you know a lot
of our resources go there. But then I started seeing that,
you know, we spend less than you know, right at
one percent to community outreach, uh and to organizations that
are that are doing stuff less than one percent, and
yet we've got we found out that that seventeen number
(08:58):
if we use that seventeen number. Fifty percent of those
have never been touched by the VA. I mean, we're
going at a model.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It's a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
We're using a model from from thirty forty years ago
that we that is, we just can't get out of
the car, so to speak. So my question is, and
I ask all these all the time and said, if
it's not working and we're not getting good results, then
quit expecting different results.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Well, is there an opportunity for private public partnership here
because we do have a lot of organizations that where
veterans are kind of like a buddy system where they
keep somebody on track.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, very much so is to it? I think this
is and this is why I'm opening up.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I mean, I'm open to any You know, we have
a lot of veteran service organizations out there. Many are
familiar with the old with the what I call the
mainline you know veterans. You know the paralyzed veationis DVA,
American Legion BFW.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I mean, most people know those, but they're they're they're.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Sort of organizations that has been around a long time
and they do some good stuff with what they try
to do. But then you've got a lot of newer
groups in over the last twenty years, a lot of
them g Watt, my generation of veterans that are coming out,
Wounded Warrior Project, and you know, there's a lot of
things Tunnel's Towers, there's a lot of other agencies out there,
(10:09):
and I don't want to name them all or name
checking because there's just a lot. But they're using their
resources and have very little overhead in comparison to what
they actually spend their money on, and they're seeing some
good results in how we deal with post traumatic stress
syndrome TBI, traumatic brain injury, those kind of things. So yes,
(10:29):
I'm open to anybody that's willing to come to the
table and help me lower that seventeen number. And I'll
be very frank if five hundred and eighty eight million
is not enough, then I'm happy to go fight for
more money.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
If I'm seeing then that seventeen number go down.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
But if that number is not going down, then we
got to figure out what we're not doing right, And
if it's not with us, then I just want them
to get help somewhere well.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And that's I think that's the point that people don't
get that there is not a slashing of it's not
just looking for money to get rid of, you really
want to results. And that is where that narrative is
getting lost lost in the leftist media is that what
is happening in Washington, d C. Right now is because
there is money being spent and the results are not there.
(11:11):
Whether it's education, whether it's veterans, whether it's homelessness, we
continue to have either worsening numbers or stagnant numbers, and
that should not be acceptable. We should not be okay
with that. Let me ask you, if there were not
a president Donald Trump, would you ever be able to
do this?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
No, And I think what we've seen in the last
little bit is is even Trump one actually did a
lot of great things.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
But we had the Mission Act out.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I was in Congress when we did that, which gives
much more choice to our veterans to go into the
community and get care. If the wait times or their
distances to facilities are over certain mileage. That helps us out.
That keeps the care local. It still be a care
we pay for it, but yet it helps us make
sure that our veterans are getting the care in a
(11:58):
timely fashion, in the way they need it. He was
very I mean, every time I talk to the President
about it, one of the things he talks about is
community care, and so it's something that we've had the
ability to do, but also his willingness to come in
and reimagine government.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
He ran on it.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
He talked about it. This is the you know, the
whole essence of why we're here. Gives us the ability
to now to put more you know, from my military background,
it puts us, you know, a soord more lead on
the target. We're going after, helping veterans, We're going after
making sure they get their benefits and the VA itself.
So I love my VA employees, but are we staffed
(12:32):
in the proper ways? And I think that's the issue
that we're having to deal with now and funded in
ways that are actually putting money toward the areas of
health care and actually toward benefits.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
As we're supposted, this isn't a new concept though. It's
not as though we haven't heard Democrats say this. Democrats
who have run for president, Democrats who have been president,
Democrat senators, people have consistently said we want to get
rid of the waste and actually see results. So why
is it that now you are having Democrat senators just
attack you over this.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, I think it's a constituency served in many of
the the my colleagues in the Democrat side, and you know,
I respect you know their opinions, but the opinions is
is you've seen the same thing the same way for
a long time. You're not getting a better result. I
think it's because that they're more concerned with the structure
of government than they are the results of government. And
(13:24):
let that one sink in for a minute. They're more
concerned about how government fits in size at times, it
appears then they do what does it mean for that
government agent to do exist? I mean you mentioned education,
you know, of course with the VA and others, you know,
are they doing what they're supposed to be doing. Are
we simply building up a union workforce or a labor
(13:46):
workforce or a jobs program in many of these government
agencies that are not actually effectuating the change that we
need to see.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And I think that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I think people need to understand there's no celebration of
getting rid of people when you know, I keep hearing
people on the left that are like, oh, they're just
they want to just get rid of all these jobs
and these poor people and I And to be honest,
I've heard some people on the right side of the
aisle that have been like, good, go get another job.
I on that now. I agree. We've all experienced either
(14:16):
having delay people off or being laid off ourselves. There's
no joy in that. There are other jobs out there,
but there's no joy in that. What do you say
to those people that say, oh, this is just about
cutting people. I mean, there's really a calculated decision there
with every person.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Well it is.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You know, the question comes is is are the jobs
that we have in the in the manpower that we have,
in the money being spent, is it in profitable jobs
that actually help our veterans. And it may not be.
It may be in areas that they may actually have
more fulfillment, and others in a different career line. You know,
you and I both in winning business. We've actually hired people,
we've and I've been fired as well, so I know
(14:54):
both ends of the spectrum. But you know, I don't
take any joy in it at all, because you know,
I wish that we were able to use the I
wish that we'd have built the structure to fit the
veteran instead of having the structure built to fit built
to fit the VA.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And that's a big difference in perspective.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
And if the structure is built to facilitate the VA,
then we're not able to in turn give.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
The proper needs to the veteran.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So I think that's what we're turning this model on
its head a little bit, because if you have people
out there who are doing jobs are there that are
not fulfilling or they're not able to accomplish that mission,
then we're we're not being good stewers of not only
the tax player's money, but remember veterans pay taxes too,
and so we're not spending the money on which is supposed.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
To be done.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Stay tuned. We have more with VA Secretary Doug Collins,
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Now stay tuned. We have more coming up after this.
What about some of the crazy things, I mean, we're
hearing that DOJE uncovered an agreement with the VA for
three hundred and eighty thousand dollars a month for minor
website modifications. Do you when you find that out, do
(17:14):
you think that this is nefarious or do you think
this is just incompetence.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I'm mnst say somewhere in the middle, I think it's
just we had the money and we got to spend it.
I mean, tutor, if someone who's been in government, and
I've been in the military for years, I mean, it
was a common thing in military circles. Okay, I'll take
it out of the VA for a second. I remember
many times that in August and September in the reserves,
we would get these frantic messages from our you know, supervisors,
(17:43):
stuff saying end of year's coming. You know, get these
you know, send send us any purchasing request right now
under ten thousand dollars. And I mean we would get
two computers, we get stuff that you know, we have
because they had to spend the money before the end
of the year. So I'm going to be sort of
kind of the middle on this. I think some of
it was probably not knowing what they're doing. I think
(18:04):
some of it was, you know, helping out you know,
contracts that got awry.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
But I think it's somewhere in the middle. I think
it goes back to.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
An understanding that government is being used for something government
was never intended to be, and that is an unlimited
trough of money that does an unlimited way to hire
and shape our attitudes. But I also have to remind people.
And I was going to say this a minute ago.
You know, you talk about everybody talking about it, now,
this is not the original Doge. You know, everybody talks
(18:32):
about Doge where the original Doge is Bill Clinton and
Al Gore.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yes, they cut fourteen percent out of the workforce for
almost two hundred, between two hundred and fifty and three
hundred thousand people out of government slash regulations in the nineties.
The same press that thought that was the most amazing
thing in the world are now some of the same
press and members of Congress who believe that what we're
doing is terrible. So I think we ought to get
(18:58):
I think, frankly, the President Trump ought to bring Bill
and Al back given an award in the Rose Garden
for being the original Dose founders.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
That is clever. I like that idea. I think that's
very good. One thing I want to just touch on
before I let you go. You brought up earlier that
you have about two hundred and fifty thousand people that
are waiting for their benefits to be approved or.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Is that now A lot of that is disability side.
You know, some have been you know, they've given information
some of us not been finished. I mean, there's a
lot of reasons, but the problem is we're not moving
them quick enough.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And I think that's our problem. We are looking at doing.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
A lot of automation now to knock out some of
the ones that we can. But you would be amazed.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Everybody tells us, well, what have you learned, Well, I've
learned it. We're so bureaucratic that sometimes our bureaucracy actually
gets in the way of our bureaucracy. And you know
that's a pretty amazing statement, but it's just like, really,
how we do this?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
So I've cold everywhere.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I was up in your wonderful part of the world
in Michigan just as fast week, and I went to
the health Battle Creek and Arbor and Detroit, went to
all the medical our medical centers there. Also went to
the customer cemetery there, which is a great place if you're.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
In central southern Michigan. Now the go by that cemetery.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
So it's an amazing, humbling place to go to just
to see the beauty of it up near Battle right
next to the Battle Creek.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
VMA vancy up there.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
But what you're seeing is is that there's a lot
that we have that is beneficial. But I told them,
you're letting the system get in the way of what
you're supposed to do. So I told them, I said,
if you have ten steps to get a benefit, then
can you do it in five? You know, if there's
ten steps to getting into the hospital and getting approved
for your health care, can we do.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
That in five.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I mean, start helping this veteran get in, because once
they get in, they tend to be okay with the
care they're getting. But it's the getting in process that's
a hard.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
And that's what I think is so beautiful about what's
happening in all these agencies, and I think that should
come to the state level too. I mean, that's what
we see in automotive with six ske mine all of
these different programs, is streamline the process. You know, in
the state of Michigan, we get beat out by every
other state for a bid for a new business because
it takes us so long to re return the answer
(21:12):
to the company that's requesting. If you can cut out
those processes, bureaucracy can sometimes just crush the next step.
And that's what I think is so beautiful. You guys
are just removing the barriers to make sure the people
are getting what they need exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
And that's one of the things I've tried to bring
to the table up here is as I don't do
long meetings. We do meetings with a point. If you
send ahead notes, so let me know what we're going
to be at my level. I mean in the meetings
I take, I need that I read all those in
the morning. I'm up at five point thirty, I'm in
the gym, and then I'm in my office and I
read those repurses. So when we get to meetings, I
don't just have a regurgitation of what's on the power point.
(21:47):
In fact, I won't let it. I say, okay, here's
the questions I have. How do we make it better?
What decisions do you need? And we make decisions and
we move. I told our VA employees, I said, I
need you to fail faster. I need you to get
out out there and start help trying to do stuff.
If it doesn't work, fine, You'll never get in trouble
with me on trying to help a veteran and that
idea doesn't work, because you know what the next idea
(22:09):
will work.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
And I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
The next idea, that's what we got to be.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I love that. Thank you so much, Secretary Doug Collins.
You guys are doing an amazing job and I'm so
glad you got to share it with us today.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
To be here with you, dude, take care, Thank.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You, and thank you all for listening to the Tutor
Dixon Podcast. Make sure you check out the more podcasts
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts, and join us next time. Have a blessed day.
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I am so excited
because we have the United States Secretary of Veteran Affairs,
Doug Collins with us. Thank you so much, mister Secretary,
for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Dude, it was good to see you today.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I want I want to start off with what you did.
I think it was last week with Caitlyn Collins because
she was going after you. I can't even remember what
she was going after you about, because you were so
good at handling this leftist, nasty media that will not
talk about our veterans.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
No, they didn't want to.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And look, we had discussed, it came up and that's
the signal issues at the messages, that's right. Yeah, and
so and look I'll tell my story here. That is
a sense that we had agreed to come on and
talk by veterans. And I don't mind tough questions, hard questions.
I mean, I've been doing this for twenty years in politics.
I get it, and that's fine. But what we want
to do is talk about the veterans. And so she
(00:55):
came on actually before the interview and was you know,
small child, like you know you've done on interviews before.
And she said, well, we're going to ask you about
the signal stuff, I said, and I told her, I said, Kaylyn,
that's fine, I said, but I'll answer it once. And
I don't want to dwell here. I said, we got
issues with veterans. I want to talk about that, and
she and she made it. I said, oh, no problem.
I got plenty of questions for about the about the
(01:17):
VA and veterans. I said, okay, so we got off,
so we get on the interview. Their first question was
about the signal is messaging issue.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I answered it.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
She came back with another question about the exact basically
the same thing, and I said, I said, Kaitlyn, I said,
I've already answered that question. I'm not going to have
anything else to expand on. I wasn't a part of it,
not going to do it. And then she went the
third time and this is baseball season, and that was
if she wasn't going to talk about it, talk about veterans,
then I wanted to talk about veterers on y CNN
(01:48):
has disrespected veterans into fane veterans and lost a court
case on defamation for five million dollars to a veteran
in Florida and the person who made one of the
comments when they're you said we're going to nail him.
They're still employed at.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Say and Him.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I thought that was genius. I mean, I've never seen
it done so well and so deserved that she would
be asked that question because and I didn't even know
that you had had the conversation ahead of time. I
think that's the beauty of being able to talk on
a podcast is to say, look, the background is that
we said, we'll answer it, but we want to talk
about veterans. And there's a lot of people right now
(02:27):
who feel like the leftist media is coming after you
saying you're getting rid of people, you're firing veterans, this
is not good for them. And I've heard you talk
about this a few times about how look to be
able to take care of veterans, we need that money
spent the right way. So I wanted you to be
able to answer it to that too, because I think
it's great that you were able to go after Caitlyn
(02:48):
Collins and point out the fact that she was being well,
she was being disrespectful to our veterans, but also she
never she never cared to find out what is actually
going on.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, I think that's the big problem here, Tootor. And
it's not Look, I hate it. I don't like to
have interviews that just go like that. But also I'm
not going to let anybody, not going to anybody talk
about about my Vesteran'm not gonna talk about about the
VA employees. But also at the same point in time,
you know, when you have a narrative, you know, we're
not going to just play along with your narrative.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think we I think.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Many times many of our side has sort of just
played the narrative and tried to defend I just am
not going to play the narrative that they want to have,
especially when that narrative is, you know, directly opposed to
what I'm trying to do is be a secretary. And look,
I've been here about two months now, We're going on
two months. In fact, I'm pretty much today close to
today of Mars two months and you know, all I'm
(03:40):
doing is fighting an you indo and rumor. And it's
out there that you know, depending on who you want
to listen to, which senator wants to tell, you know, stories, today,
you know, we've done everything from you know, shut down
the VA system and privatized it to you know, firing
eighty thousand people to you know, going back and forth,
and you name it.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
You know, we've done it.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
The truth of the matter is is that at this
point in time, due to some coret case and everything else,
basically there are staffing levels are the same except for
those who chose early retirement. But the bigger problem here too,
it is what people have got to understand. The VA
is bigger than the active duty Army. Let's just start
off here. We're bigger than the active duty Army.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Okay, what do you mean, like employee wise, employee wise,
that's crazy I have right now.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Pete could act.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Pete could mobilize the entire active duty Army for US,
and I could. I could best him by about twenty thousand.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It's actually terrifying.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It is because it's grown many times.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
And I've always said, I think you know, the hill
is when it comes to issues, and this has been
very true for a number of years when it's the
Congress and also your state legislation as well. It's very
true there too that if it's dealing with children or
dealing with veterans, nobody wants to be perceived as not
giving something to them.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
The issue is, though, is what are you giving? And
I think this is true for any issue that you have.
Is it giving just to appease your own conscience or
is it giving to make sure that we're actually, from
my perspective, putting VA services to veterans who've earned that
health benefit or that disability or other benefit. You know,
it could be housing, it could be educational, it could
(05:13):
be other things. You know, are we making that the
most appropriate way? So when I tell you that we have,
you know, four hundred and seventy raised thousand employees, you
know how big we are. We also have a budget
of three hundred and fifty billion. What is unknown to
most people, though, is over the last four years, we
added over one hundred billion, almost one hundred and fifty billion,
and I've averaged over eighty thousand employees, fifty full time,
(05:36):
about thirty part time. Ten years ago, we were less
than half of that.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Okay, what have you seen an improvement in veteran services?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's your problem.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
If that had worked, we should be the happiest department
on you know, we you know, we should be the
happiest department on earth.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
The problem is is it's not.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
For the last ten years GAO, the Government Accounting Office
has said that we're on the high risk list for
fraudways to abuse, patient care, patient quality. So for ten years,
the VA has increased its budget, you know, close to
two hundred thousand, you know, dollars two hundred billion dollars
I followed US two hundred billion, and you know, probably
somewhere close to one hundred and fifty or one thousand
(06:15):
more employees depending on you know, thseay ZACCHT numbers, spend
on when you want to look at it. But we've
increased money in size. But yet the metrics in our
healthcare system. You know, some systems, you know, some of
our medical centers are better, some or not. We have
you know, our case load has been very relatively flat
across this timeframe as well disability benefits that went up
(06:37):
because of Packpack and some other things. But what we're
looking at here is a system that for ten years
has been said, you know, look, it's not where it
needs to be. And yet all we do is put
money and people toward it without saying is it making
a difference. And I can tell you from a health
perspective sort of flat on metrics on a backlog perspective
for a benefit, we've actually got worse. So under Trump
(06:59):
it was under sixty thousand when I took up, excuse me,
when I took over, it was about two hundred and
thirty thousand backlog on disability benefits.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So with all that money and.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
People, we actually you know, went from under sixty to
over two hundred thousand in backlaw.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And we hear a lot about veteran suicides, and I
think that that's been kind of the talking point of
I guess the people who want to continue to grow
government is while you have this hanging over your head,
has that reduced it all in this period?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
No, it's not, And that's a really concern.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
You look at from two thousand and eight to two thousand,
you know, twenty four, twenty two, the last three numbers,
we stayed about between sixty four hundred and about in
the highs of almost close to seven thousand veterans death
by suicide each year.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And that's that's.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
The ones that we calculate the way our formulate process does.
There's some who out there who say it's actually more.
But the real issue you have up here, and this
is something for your listeners to be aware of is
that we've also have a budget about five hundred and
eighty eight million in prevention what has tagged as suicide prevention,
and also about two point three billion that is used
for treatment and uh, you know, counseling, the things that
(08:15):
are done to help people get out of that state.
So you're looking at about three billion dollars that has
been pretty consistent for about the last four to five years.
So if you add those numbers up, you're looking at,
you know, well over ten billion dollars that have been
spent in some form or fashional on suicide, and yet
our numbers haven't moved. So I've came in and started
asking different, you know, questions, why is it when I moved,
(08:37):
why are we not you know? And then I found
out even further. We spend a lot of our time
on our crisis line, which is you know a lot
of our resources go there. But then I started seeing that,
you know, we spend less than you know, right at
one percent to community outreach, uh and to organizations that
are that are doing stuff less than one percent, and
yet we've got we found out that that seventeen number
(08:58):
if we use that seventeen number. Fifty percent of those
have never been touched by the VA. I mean, we're
going at a model.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It's a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
We're using a model from from thirty forty years ago
that we that is, we just can't get out of
the car, so to speak. So my question is, and
I ask all these all the time and said, if
it's not working and we're not getting good results, then
quit expecting different results.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Well, is there an opportunity for private public partnership here
because we do have a lot of organizations that where
veterans are kind of like a buddy system where they
keep somebody on track.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, very much so is to it? I think this
is and this is why I'm opening up.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I mean, I'm open to any You know, we have
a lot of veteran service organizations out there. Many are
familiar with the old with the what I call the
mainline you know veterans. You know the paralyzed veationis DVA,
American Legion BFW.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I mean, most people know those, but they're they're they're.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Sort of organizations that has been around a long time
and they do some good stuff with what they try
to do. But then you've got a lot of newer
groups in over the last twenty years, a lot of
them g Watt, my generation of veterans that are coming out,
Wounded Warrior Project, and you know, there's a lot of
things Tunnel's Towers, there's a lot of other agencies out there,
(10:09):
and I don't want to name them all or name
checking because there's just a lot. But they're using their
resources and have very little overhead in comparison to what
they actually spend their money on, and they're seeing some
good results in how we deal with post traumatic stress
syndrome TBI, traumatic brain injury, those kind of things. So yes,
(10:29):
I'm open to anybody that's willing to come to the
table and help me lower that seventeen number. And I'll
be very frank if five hundred and eighty eight million
is not enough, then I'm happy to go fight for
more money.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
If I'm seeing then that seventeen number go down.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
But if that number is not going down, then we
got to figure out what we're not doing right, And
if it's not with us, then I just want them
to get help somewhere well.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And that's I think that's the point that people don't
get that there is not a slashing of it's not
just looking for money to get rid of, you really
want to results. And that is where that narrative is
getting lost lost in the leftist media is that what
is happening in Washington, d C. Right now is because
there is money being spent and the results are not there.
(11:11):
Whether it's education, whether it's veterans, whether it's homelessness, we
continue to have either worsening numbers or stagnant numbers, and
that should not be acceptable. We should not be okay
with that. Let me ask you, if there were not
a president Donald Trump, would you ever be able to
do this?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
No, And I think what we've seen in the last
little bit is is even Trump one actually did a
lot of great things.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
But we had the Mission Act out.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I was in Congress when we did that, which gives
much more choice to our veterans to go into the
community and get care. If the wait times or their
distances to facilities are over certain mileage. That helps us out.
That keeps the care local. It still be a care
we pay for it, but yet it helps us make
sure that our veterans are getting the care in a
(11:58):
timely fashion, in the way they need it. He was
very I mean, every time I talk to the President
about it, one of the things he talks about is
community care, and so it's something that we've had the
ability to do, but also his willingness to come in
and reimagine government.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
He ran on it.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
He talked about it. This is the you know, the
whole essence of why we're here. Gives us the ability
to now to put more you know, from my military background,
it puts us, you know, a soord more lead on
the target. We're going after, helping veterans, We're going after
making sure they get their benefits and the VA itself.
So I love my VA employees, but are we staffed
(12:32):
in the proper ways? And I think that's the issue
that we're having to deal with now and funded in
ways that are actually putting money toward the areas of
health care and actually toward benefits.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
As we're supposted, this isn't a new concept though. It's
not as though we haven't heard Democrats say this. Democrats
who have run for president, Democrats who have been president,
Democrat senators, people have consistently said we want to get
rid of the waste and actually see results. So why
is it that now you are having Democrat senators just
attack you over this.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, I think it's a constituency served in many of
the the my colleagues in the Democrat side, and you know,
I respect you know their opinions, but the opinions is
is you've seen the same thing the same way for
a long time. You're not getting a better result. I
think it's because that they're more concerned with the structure
of government than they are the results of government. And
(13:24):
let that one sink in for a minute. They're more
concerned about how government fits in size at times, it
appears then they do what does it mean for that
government agent to do exist? I mean you mentioned education,
you know, of course with the VA and others, you know,
are they doing what they're supposed to be doing. Are
we simply building up a union workforce or a labor
(13:46):
workforce or a jobs program in many of these government
agencies that are not actually effectuating the change that we
need to see.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And I think that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I think people need to understand there's no celebration of
getting rid of people when you know, I keep hearing
people on the left that are like, oh, they're just
they want to just get rid of all these jobs
and these poor people and I And to be honest,
I've heard some people on the right side of the
aisle that have been like, good, go get another job.
I on that now. I agree. We've all experienced either
(14:16):
having delay people off or being laid off ourselves. There's
no joy in that. There are other jobs out there,
but there's no joy in that. What do you say
to those people that say, oh, this is just about
cutting people. I mean, there's really a calculated decision there
with every person.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Well it is.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You know, the question comes is is are the jobs
that we have in the in the manpower that we have,
in the money being spent, is it in profitable jobs
that actually help our veterans. And it may not be.
It may be in areas that they may actually have
more fulfillment, and others in a different career line. You know,
you and I both in winning business. We've actually hired people,
we've and I've been fired as well, so I know
(14:54):
both ends of the spectrum. But you know, I don't
take any joy in it at all, because you know,
I wish that we were able to use the I
wish that we'd have built the structure to fit the
veteran instead of having the structure built to fit built
to fit the VA.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And that's a big difference in perspective.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
And if the structure is built to facilitate the VA,
then we're not able to in turn give.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
The proper needs to the veteran.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So I think that's what we're turning this model on
its head a little bit, because if you have people
out there who are doing jobs are there that are
not fulfilling or they're not able to accomplish that mission,
then we're we're not being good stewers of not only
the tax player's money, but remember veterans pay taxes too,
and so we're not spending the money on which is supposed.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
To be done.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Stay tuned. We have more with VA Secretary Doug Collins,
but first let me tell you more about my partners
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again eight eight eight four eight eight four three two five.
Now stay tuned. We have more coming up after this.
What about some of the crazy things, I mean, we're
hearing that DOJE uncovered an agreement with the VA for
three hundred and eighty thousand dollars a month for minor
website modifications. Do you when you find that out, do
(17:14):
you think that this is nefarious or do you think
this is just incompetence.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I'm mnst say somewhere in the middle, I think it's
just we had the money and we got to spend it.
I mean, tutor, if someone who's been in government, and
I've been in the military for years, I mean, it
was a common thing in military circles. Okay, I'll take
it out of the VA for a second. I remember
many times that in August and September in the reserves,
we would get these frantic messages from our you know, supervisors,
(17:43):
stuff saying end of year's coming. You know, get these
you know, send send us any purchasing request right now
under ten thousand dollars. And I mean we would get
two computers, we get stuff that you know, we have
because they had to spend the money before the end
of the year. So I'm going to be sort of
kind of the middle on this. I think some of
it was probably not knowing what they're doing. I think
(18:04):
some of it was, you know, helping out you know,
contracts that got awry.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
But I think it's somewhere in the middle. I think
it goes back to.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
An understanding that government is being used for something government
was never intended to be, and that is an unlimited
trough of money that does an unlimited way to hire
and shape our attitudes. But I also have to remind people.
And I was going to say this a minute ago.
You know, you talk about everybody talking about it, now,
this is not the original Doge. You know, everybody talks
(18:32):
about Doge where the original Doge is Bill Clinton and
Al Gore.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yes, they cut fourteen percent out of the workforce for
almost two hundred, between two hundred and fifty and three
hundred thousand people out of government slash regulations in the nineties.
The same press that thought that was the most amazing
thing in the world are now some of the same
press and members of Congress who believe that what we're
doing is terrible. So I think we ought to get
(18:58):
I think, frankly, the President Trump ought to bring Bill
and Al back given an award in the Rose Garden
for being the original Dose founders.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
That is clever. I like that idea. I think that's
very good. One thing I want to just touch on
before I let you go. You brought up earlier that
you have about two hundred and fifty thousand people that
are waiting for their benefits to be approved or.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Is that now A lot of that is disability side.
You know, some have been you know, they've given information
some of us not been finished. I mean, there's a
lot of reasons, but the problem is we're not moving
them quick enough.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And I think that's our problem. We are looking at doing.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
A lot of automation now to knock out some of
the ones that we can. But you would be amazed.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Everybody tells us, well, what have you learned, Well, I've
learned it. We're so bureaucratic that sometimes our bureaucracy actually
gets in the way of our bureaucracy. And you know
that's a pretty amazing statement, but it's just like, really,
how we do this?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
So I've cold everywhere.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I was up in your wonderful part of the world
in Michigan just as fast week, and I went to
the health Battle Creek and Arbor and Detroit, went to
all the medical our medical centers there. Also went to
the customer cemetery there, which is a great place if you're.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
In central southern Michigan. Now the go by that cemetery.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
So it's an amazing, humbling place to go to just
to see the beauty of it up near Battle right
next to the Battle Creek.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
VMA vancy up there.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
But what you're seeing is is that there's a lot
that we have that is beneficial. But I told them,
you're letting the system get in the way of what
you're supposed to do. So I told them, I said,
if you have ten steps to get a benefit, then
can you do it in five? You know, if there's
ten steps to getting into the hospital and getting approved
for your health care, can we do.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
That in five.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I mean, start helping this veteran get in, because once
they get in, they tend to be okay with the
care they're getting. But it's the getting in process that's
a hard.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
And that's what I think is so beautiful about what's
happening in all these agencies, and I think that should
come to the state level too. I mean, that's what
we see in automotive with six ske mine all of
these different programs, is streamline the process. You know, in
the state of Michigan, we get beat out by every
other state for a bid for a new business because
it takes us so long to re return the answer
(21:12):
to the company that's requesting. If you can cut out
those processes, bureaucracy can sometimes just crush the next step.
And that's what I think is so beautiful. You guys
are just removing the barriers to make sure the people
are getting what they need exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
And that's one of the things I've tried to bring
to the table up here is as I don't do
long meetings. We do meetings with a point. If you
send ahead notes, so let me know what we're going
to be at my level. I mean in the meetings
I take, I need that I read all those in
the morning. I'm up at five point thirty, I'm in
the gym, and then I'm in my office and I
read those repurses. So when we get to meetings, I
don't just have a regurgitation of what's on the power point.
(21:47):
In fact, I won't let it. I say, okay, here's
the questions I have. How do we make it better?
What decisions do you need? And we make decisions and
we move. I told our VA employees, I said, I
need you to fail faster. I need you to get
out out there and start help trying to do stuff.
If it doesn't work, fine, You'll never get in trouble
with me on trying to help a veteran and that
idea doesn't work, because you know what the next idea
(22:09):
will work.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
And I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
The next idea, that's what we got to be.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I love that. Thank you so much, Secretary Doug Collins.
You guys are doing an amazing job and I'm so
glad you got to share it with us today.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
To be here with you, dude, take care, Thank.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You, and thank you all for listening to the Tutor
Dixon Podcast. Make sure you check out the more podcasts
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts, and join us next time. Have a blessed day.
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