September 19, 2025 • 34 mins
On this episode of The Tudor Dixon Podcast, Tudor sits down with Dave Rubin to reflect on the life and legacy of Charlie Kirk. They discuss the rising hostility in today’s political climate, the struggle to defend free speech, and how faith and personal relationships shape public discourse. The conversation also examines the dangers of online extremism, the role of protests in fueling division, and why understanding tragedy is key to preventing future violence. Rubin shares personal stories about Kirk, offering a thoughtful look at his impact and the lessons he leaves behind. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network. For more visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I have the host
of The Ruben Report with me here today, Dave Rubin.
And Dave, I'm so glad that you're on because we
were just talking before we got on about how heavy
things feel right now, and I saw your tribute to
Charlie Kirk in the New York Post and I wanted
to say that was beautiful, very well done.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well thanks and it's good to see you, Tutor.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
You know, we're all in this weird spot because if
you do something like we do for a living, so
you talk about politics or culture or whatever, and you
happen to be on the let's say, on the right,
you know, we're all in the same world. We all
kind of know each other one way or another, you know,
whether we're doing it just through the cameras like you
and I are doing now, or doing events like I
(00:46):
used to do with Charlie colleges all the time, or whatever.
And then there's this weird moment where suddenly you feel, wow,
this guy that I know my friend is dead, and
yet you have to narrate it live, have to then
talk about it on TV. We have to do this,
and I feel like, actually it wasn't I said on
my show this morning. It wasn't until last night at
(01:07):
about seven o'clock. This is eight days later, that it suddenly,
I think, really hit me what's going on here? Because
I played basketball every Wednesday with this group of guys
and a guy who I don't know particularly well outside
of basketball just came up to me and he kind
of had glassy eyes and he said, Dave, I'm so
sorry for your loss. And it was the first something
about the fact that basketball, to me has nothing to
(01:28):
do with politics or the rest of it. It suddenly
was like, WHOA, something really big happen. I know that
may sound weird or strange or something, but it's been
a really difficult.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Look.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
It's a horrific, horrific time. Charlie was a father first
and a husband, and he was a good man and
he was trying to do whether I agreed with him
on everything or not, which I certainly didn't, although over
the years we definitely came closer as it pertained to
our opinions on things, largely because I moved to his positions.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
There's a huge loss for America. And as you said
to me right before we started the.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Morning period, is now just crazy because of social media,
we immediately start the fighting again. And I'm really really
trying this week not to add to the craziness. I'm
probably failing at it every other turn, but it's just
on us to try to be a little bit better
right now, I think, and thank you for the kind
words about the New York Post thing. You know, I
did that literally in ten minutes. They said, can you
(02:23):
get us to this? Can you get this to us immediately?
And it was just like I just threw it out
there and they said, Okay, we're not even going to
edit it.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Go So yeah, Well, I think what you're saying about
mourning is something we've kind of talked about it in
the dark corners, in the privacy of home, is like,
what is it like for the family to be going
through this while there's battles on social media? And we
went into this all kind of shocked. That day, I
(02:52):
remember thinking, how did we get to this point where
there is a side that hates us so much? How
could we possibly? I felt it. I ran for office.
I felt hatred. I really felt hatred. I'll tell you
a story. I felt so much hatred that when Trump
was running, I went to one of the Fox News
(03:14):
events where they come to a diner and sit down,
and there was a group of Kamala Harris supporters that
were protesting right but they were sitting there at the
diner and they just yeall occasionally. And then at the
end I went to walk out, and I thought, you know,
I should go talk to them, because that's the right
thing to do. And I sat down with them and
we talked for probably forty five minutes, and they were
(03:34):
trying to get me to vote for Kamala, and I thought,
this is really weird that they're just giving me so
much time, you know. And we talked about my position
on abortion, and they told me some really powerful stories
that honestly gave me a different perspective. And it was
a great conversation. And at the end, they said, what's
your name? And I said, I thought, oh my gosh,
(03:55):
they don't know and I said it's Tutor. And the
one woman she looked at me, she goes, not that tutor,
And I said, there's a reason I didn't lead with that,
and she looked at me. Her jaw hit the table
and she goes, I hated you, but you turned out
to be really nice. Why can't But that's what Charlie
(04:18):
was doing. He was like, have the conversation, and I've
racked my brain, but you would know this, how do
you have the conversation? How do you do that? Because
they'd talk to me because they didn't know who I was,
but we loved each other.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Once we talked, Well, it's almost impossible to do what
Charlie was doing, which is why he was basically the
only one doing it. You know, years ago, around twenty eighteen,
when Charlie and I were on tour with Turning Point
together going to these events, that was before we even
called it woke. We you know, we were going to
college campuses. It was about identity politics and all the
(04:52):
weird gender stuff and all that, and everybody, all the
criticism that we would get from New York Times and
CNN and all these other things, was oh, like, oh,
look at them, they're just making fun of college students.
You know, they're just going on to college campuses to
instigate and inflame and.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
And what we would always try to do there was
Charlie and I would debate whatever it might be, so
it could be marriage equality or abortion or just whatever
the things were that we would debate, we would always
do it respectfully and everything else we would always And
this was Charlie's idea that I've used in every one
of my public events since. If you had a for
the Q and a if you disagreed with us, please
come up first. We didn't want to just hear people
(05:28):
say nice things to us at the end. But what
was interesting, because you use the word hate there, and
that's what I think people are really focusing on right
now is the protesters that would be outside, the ones
that were pulling the fire alarms or threat you know,
calling in bomb threats, or throwing things at us, or
bringing noise makers to silence us, or they have a
laundry list of twenty other things that they do. Like
(05:50):
sometimes I would walk to the campus before and I'd
go in a hat and a T shirt, so not
in my usual things, so maybe they wouldn't recognize me,
or sunglasses, and I kind of get close to to
the groups, and then I stopped doing it after I
got recognized a few times. But hatred is the right word.
They had been so confused and manipulated by the machine
(06:11):
that calls us all Nazis and all the worst thing
in the world. That you could see it in their eyes.
I mean you really could see it in their eyes.
There's a video that your audience can check that it's
on my channel. I did an event with Turning Point
around twenty eighteen at University in New Hampshire and I
was supposed to be it was supposed to be me,
Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens, and I think it was
(06:32):
that day that Kanye tweeted out I like the way
Candace Owens thinks, I know this all feels like a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Ago and let's not even go into any of that
right now.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
However, because of that tweet, Candace and Charlie I think
went to meet Kanye, so they left me to do
the event alone. And I go to University in New
Hampshire and we were supposed to be on campus, but
because there were so many protesters and it was starting
to get violent, the campus said we're not doing it
on campus. We'll send you to the Vocal hockey rink.
So first the campus had already conceded defeat. Right once
(07:04):
you say we can't even secure our own campus from
our own students, we're gonna put it off site. You've
already given them a huge win. Then once they did that,
that instigated hundreds, if not literally thousands of more protesters
to show up to the event. So then I end
up doing an event that was supposed to be invite only,
you know, five hundred people. I end up doing it
at a hockey rink that was supposed to see thousands
(07:26):
of people. So you know what that feels like. You know,
if you're doing an event that's supposed to be a
sold out room and now you're thousands of empty seats
behind you because they decided to not let any more
people in. Then once the good people heard, they wanted
to come in, but then they were realizing they couldn't
control the crowd or anything else. I mentioned this all
to say the level of hatred that was thrown at
me that day, and it had nothing to do with
(07:47):
my own positions. I kept I basically stopped my speech,
and I kept saying to them, guys, tell me, tell me.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
What it is that you think. Why are you protesting me?
Really try to tell me.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And it was just endless insanity that had nothing to
do with anything I had said before.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But all the usual buzzwords. And this is where I
always say, you have to give the left.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Credit, not for their ideas, not for their ideas or
what they have done. You have to give them credit
for playing a certain game. And the game they played
was could we break the minds of young people to
hopefully overtime attain power. And the simple answer to that
is yes. So you don't have to you don't have
to like what they did, but you have to respect
the game that they played.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
The words are very hard to fight. And once everybody
says once you're explaining, you're losing, and it's true because
once they accuse you of something else, yes I didn't
do that, or that isn't true or that didn't happen,
then you're explaining. And I think it's very hard for
anybody on the right in a purple area to effectively
(08:51):
campaign because they have been so successful. But that was
where really Charlie was coming in and easing up a
little bit of especially in Arizona. I think he was
out there quite a bit easing up on a lot
of that. You when you met him, you were a Democrat,
So how did you what made you go? I'm not
(09:12):
I don't believe in everything he says, but maybe I'm
not on that side.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Charlie and I met when I was just kind of
leaving the left.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You know, I was.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I was progressive the whole thing. I was on the
Young Turks. Most people know that whole story. And I
started seeing the hysteria what we now all see very obviously.
I just saw it very early because I was in it.
And as I was in it, what I realized was, Okay,
these people seem pretty nutty, and I'm not able to
convince the lefties to be liberal in the truest sense.
(09:43):
Let me see who else I can talk to. I
happened to meet Charlie at an event in West Palm Beach.
Within literally ten minutes. I'm not making this up. He
was like, listen, I see we have some disagreements, but
let's go on tour together and see what happens. And
that's what we did. It was as simple as that.
It wasn't it was. We didn't have to sit down
and contract. It was literally as simple as that. And
(10:03):
what I realized over time was that Charlie genuinely wanted
to have that conversation. He genuinely did, and by the way,
We had to earn trust with each other too, because
you know, on one hand, I'm looking at him like,
I don't know, can I trust these crazy conservatives? Because
I still had probably some some PTSD of like, well,
they say all these horrible things about these guys, right,
so can I trust them?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And for Charlie it was a risk.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Because you know, can he trust this guy who was
on the Young Turks? So we really had to work
that through and people saw it happen on camera in
real time. But Tutor, the truth is, it happened. It
happened for us as friends as well. It happened over dinners,
It happened over sitting with our spouses next to each
other at weddings, It happened on long car rides driving
(10:47):
to these places. We were always churning through those things
and kind of measuring each other up.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And you know, another thing I.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Can say about Charlie is over the years I spoke
in many of the turning point events and when I
really had completely different political views, and he was still
in fighting me because I defended free speech. He never
want asked me what I was going to say. He
never once said you should say this, never looked at
a speech.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Or anything else.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
As a matter of fact, I don't even remember what
year it is anymore because this all goes by so fast.
But when Trump was being impeached the first time, it
was right before Christmas. What was that twenty twenty eighteen?
Was that about twenty.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Eight He's been twenty seventeen axt Yah.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's hard to even remember.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It all starts, it all starts becoming one thing, twenty seventeen,
twenty eighteen. I actually was the speaker at turning point
before Trump.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
They did not say anything.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
They didn't say you have to not say this that,
don't say anything.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I didn't keep it in nothing, nothing, nothing.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
They just let you do your thing, because that was
how strong his respect for free speech was. So Look,
I just have nothing but respect for the guy. But
that is completely secondary to the human part of this
that we just keep, we.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Keep glossing by.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
So to see all these people fighting about his legacy
now releasing text messages, all of these things, like I
have text.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Messages from Charlie.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I wouldn't better applicable, like relative to politics and people,
I would never release them.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Like it's just it's just.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
A thing that fascinates me about what you said just now, though,
Is that you just explained everything people are fighting about
with regard to Charlie. He was going to give anybody
a platform. He wasn't married to a donor, he wasn't
married to an ideology he wanted. He was married to
free speech. He wanted people to be able to talk.
He wasn't going to silence anyone. So I think that's
(12:28):
what's stunning about seeing this on multiple levels. It's souring
what we know of Charlie Kirk. And I think that
the first few days even I was seeing posts that
I had never seen, and even even in the last day,
I've seen some really beautiful videos of he and his
wife together, and that true love in a way that
(12:50):
you watch it and you go, that's true love. That
is something special, that's something that should be shared because
young people should see that that exists, you know. And
so as I've seen those videos have been it's drawn
me into their story in a way that I wasn't anticipating.
And yet you have this ugly noise in the background.
And I think it's somewhat stunning because it's people who
(13:12):
I watched for years and said, oh, they're very close
friends to his to him, But yeah, who would ever?
Who would ever? And this is not even like a
political thing or an ideology thing or a social media thing.
It's a human decency thing. Who would release messages from
someone after they died.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Especially for your own political purposes? I mean, that's what's
so twisted about. To then say it's in the name
of friendship or something like that is extraordinary. But with that,
you know, let's not even dive into that, because there's
just so many fights about that, and I think we
can probably do something a little better here. I'll tell
you something else about Charlie. Charlie did two things that
I think were sort of amazing, and he did them
at once, because everyone can talk about politics, but Charlie
(13:52):
talked about faith in politics at the same time. And
that's very complex because faith your faith. In American perspective,
people of every walk of life, right, we have Christians
and Jews and Muslims and Atheists and Hindus and everybody else,
and most Americans want that. Most Americans want there to
be all sorts of people here and everything else. Charlie
(14:13):
talked about his faith as a Christian, and he talked
about his politics at the same time. And I don't
know if you saw this video, it's been going viral
from a few years ago. But he goes to one
of these events a young and it's a young guy
who seems to be sort of radical, let's say radically
anti gay for lack of a better term. And Charlie
basically lays out what his belief is in faith and
(14:35):
then also explains what America is and says, I don't
want America to be a theocracy. And Charlie was the
one that was welcoming. He was widening the tent. The
thing that got Tulcy Gabbard and Bobby Kennedy and Joe
Rogan and Elon Musk and me and so many others
to side with conservatism was because of what Charlie was
(14:57):
doing on the ground that then Trump leveled up nationally.
So he had a beautiful way of saying, hey, I
have a set of beliefs that I think are right
for me and my family and I think could scale
across the country. But also I don't want to rule
the country as a theocratic leader.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So everyone can be part of this.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
That is so the message that people should, that particularly
young people should hear and then think about right, And
that was very hard to do because it's not that
from in a secular world. It's not that easy to
talk about those things. So he really did so many
things that I think years from now people will realize
how important they were.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
All Right, you want to stick around because we've got
more coming up with Dave Rubin, But first let's talk
about my partners at IFCJ. It was nearly two years
ago that the terrorist murdered twelve hundred innocent Israelis. They
took two hundred and fifty hostages, and today it seems
like you're not even hearing about it. It seems like
the cries of those people they're just being shouted down
(15:54):
by these anti Semitic hatred rants, and it's shocking to me.
It's almost like this brutal attack on the Jewish people,
that was the most brutal attack since the Holocaust, it's
almost like it's been forgotten because it feels like the
world's looking away. But I want you to know that
there is a light that shines in the darkness right now.
It is a movement, and it is filled with love
(16:14):
and support for the people of Israel. You can be involved.
It's called Flags of Fellowship and it's organized by the
International Fellowship of Christians in Jews. On October fifth, it's
just a few weeks away, there will be millions of
Americans that will prayerfully plant and Israeli flag in honor
and insolidarity with the victims of the October seventh, twenty
(16:35):
twenty three attack and their grieving families. And you can
be a part of this. You have to go to
the Fellowship to get more information. You can join Flags
of Fellowship movement. Just visit the fellowship online at IFCJ
dot org. It's worth it you guys. We want you
to be a part of it, so please go. It's
IFCJ dot org. Now stay tuned. We've got more with
(16:56):
Dave Ruben after this. It's extremely hard, I mean, especially
if you are running for office too. I had times
when Christians would look at me and say, don't go
out there and say that you're a Christian. Well, but
I want you to know who I am, And there
weren't many people that would back you up on that.
You know, which this is her faith, that's part of
(17:18):
who she is, just like Speaker Johnson, but Speaker Johnson
doesn't want everybody to be Christian. He wants he stands
for America. Those two things are not separate, but it's
very hard to explain that in the political realm where
it doesn't offend, which seems it seems like we've crossed
a new line where if you talk about faith in
(17:38):
any way then you've offended someone, And I like, how
to get over that?
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Well, I think some of that and maybe this is
a silver lining to what has happened here, Some of
that does seem like it's scaling back, because suddenly I
think people do feel that they can speak about it.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
It's interesting Also, Charlie was in evangelical, so he wanted
to evangelize about his faith, meaning he might in Charlie's home,
and it's hard to talk about somebody when they're not
around anymore in a sense, But in his heart, it's
within the evangelical philosophy that he wanted to prostlytize his religion.
But what he didn't want to do was force anyone
(18:13):
to believe in his religion. So he Mike Johnson, I
would say, is somewhat similar. Mike Johnson may want more
people to convert but he's not going.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
To use the power.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I have no evidence, let's say, to say that he
wants to use the power of the state to do it.
Does he ultimately want every Hindu to convert to Christianity?
Like there actually might be a part there. But if
as long as you're not going to use the power
of the state to force people into what you believe,
then you should because otherwise, what can we only talk about?
So we can only talk about the thing that's happening
(18:43):
now that should be the prism that we talk about
everything through that doesn't well, look where that got us actually.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And I do think that as I watch what's happened,
I think it's beautiful to see all of these videos
where he says, this is my experience with Jesus, and
I want you to know Jesus too. And that's just
what I'm saying about it is this is Jesus has
given me something great. And you don't even have to
hear him talk about Jesus too. Like I said, when
I see these videos of he and his wife together,
(19:10):
I'm like, that is what young people need to see.
That is what for me as a Christian, I see
his faith as this three strand rope. You know, I
saw it as Erica, Charlie and Jesus together. When I
see these videos now and I'm like, oh man, this
is something that I didn't see before. And that to you,
(19:33):
to your point of the silver lining, that's the silver lining.
I get to see what Jesus looks like in a
very strong marriage that was also able to go out
and engage with the next generation, which is at Christians
what we want to do. We want to tell the
next generation we love you, and we have something crazy
in the pudding.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
The proof is in the pudding, right, Like, that's basically
what you're saying that without having forced anyone to believe
anything else.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
The proof is in the putting. And what is the putting.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
The putting in this case is that when you watch
the videos of Charlie and his wife and his kids,
you see a good man, right, You're not even with
some of the fighting going on around him. Now, there's
very I don't hear a lot of people outside of
like sort of the crazy leftists saying that Charlie was
some sort of hypocrite or liar or anything else. Like
most people are saying this was a good man, and
(20:18):
you know, if I suppose if we had a few
more examples of that, that would be good. You know,
I saw a piece in the Free Press this morning
from someone who was a totally totally secular, non religious
Jew who's now practicing Judaism because of Charlie Kirk practicing Christianity.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
So that's the point. That's the point.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And I'm not saying everybody has to practice anything. Everyone
should figure out what their own philosophical and religious beliefs
are for themselves and all of those things. But the
point is there's something going on here that's not exactly political,
and we don't really know how to talk about that at.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
A national level yet.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I've had a lot of people come to me and
ask me why Israel is being attacked in this, and
that to me is it's just an interesting contrast because
as faith in God is strengthening, you always see an attack.
So it's like there is a spiritual warfare out there.
We should expect this, This should not surprise us. This
(21:11):
is not a political issue. This is so much bigger
than that. We should know that when Christianity grows, and
when belief in God grows, and when when Jewish people
become stronger in their faith as well the enemy, and
the enemy comes in heart. And I'll tell you it
was shocking to me. Even last night. I was at
the hairdresser and the one of the gals there looked
(21:34):
at me and she was like, do you think Israel
was behind this? I'm my gosh, this is not a
this is not a conservative, this is just a person.
And I'm like, the enemy has power and that's something
that when people are all at each other's throats, it's
not there is a bigger power here. Don't let it
take you.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, the crazy part of course of all of this.
First off, we know who the shooter is, we know
who the like. There's not a question here. It's not
as if there's so one on the run and we
don't know what happened here. We basically have an admission.
And we also have information now from the parents about
the evolution of Tyler Robinson and all of that. Look
as for the crazy conspiracy theorists and everything else, I mean,
(22:11):
I think you just said it quite well, like we
should expect this. The set of people who have been
saying the craziest possible things. Really, I would say for
the last two years to the backdrop of October seventh. Well, yes,
they're using this to say more crazy things. And this
is the nature of the Internet where you can drag
people down endless rabbit holes and everything else. And at
(22:32):
the end of every conspiracy theory, as my friend Gad said, talks.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
About there's the Jew.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Look, they did this all before the state of Israel, right,
why in essence, that's why the modern state of Israel exists.
Before Israel exists, they blame the Jews. Now Israel exists,
they blame Israel. So it just kind of it's just
kind of baked into the thing. And actually I had
a Rabbi, David Walby on my show We're going to
put it up on Monday, and I asked him about this,
is this just baked into the story of the Jews?
(22:58):
And he said, while he wouldn't like to blame leave
that in some sense that there probably are historical and
philosophical reasons for that. And I think the simplest explanation
is people want simple answers for everything. They want simple
answers for everything, and especially in a world where we
view victimhoods.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So highly, and apparently people on.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
The right do it as well, it's very easy for
us to show that people on the left. Do you know,
if you take a minority group that has been pagrummed
and holocausted and all of these things over time, and
somehow they're still here, and they're still successful, and they
still largely maintain family and the things that most of
us think are important. It doesn't quite fit the calculator.
It doesn't quite fit the calculator. But I'd much rather
(23:42):
stand up and be hated than live on my knees
and beloved.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
That is such a good point. I've told this story
a lot of times, but we years ago we interviewed
Holocaust survivors and I sat with this one couple. They
had both been in concentration camps, and the husband talked
the whole time. The wife said nothing, almost to the
point where it was uncomfortable. I'm like, am I insulting you?
You know what is happening? And she had a very
(24:06):
stern look on her face. And I'm both very old, obviously,
and because they'd been in the Holocaust and they were
she was sitting in a chair. She couldn't get up
and walk anymore. And as I said goodbye, and as
I walked out. She very forcefully grabbed my arm and
it was the first time she'd even moved, so it
was quite shocking, you know, and she looked at me
(24:26):
with a lot of anger. But it was such a
Now I look back at it, it's like this was
a warning from God, because she looked at me and
she said, they hate the Jews, and they'll do it again.
And in my and this was probably five years ago.
Oh no, it would have been like seven years ago.
And in my naivete I remember thinking, well, no, we
(24:48):
aren't like that anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Well, I don't look at the end of the day,
I don't think the warning is probably correct, and I
certainly wouldn't gloss over a warning of someone that has
lived through that. I do think from an American perspective,
we are so much better than this, and I think
this has been This is actually a very niche thing
that unfortunately because of algorithms, and I would say some
(25:11):
very let's say confused trying to be nice here, I
guess confused influencers. It feels like it is scaled crazy
and it is upsetting. You know, you go to a
hairdresser and then hear something like that, so that it does,
so some of it does leak into reality. But I
would say, by and large, from an American perspective, Americans
are the most loving, decent, love your neighbor, live differently
(25:32):
people that have ever existed, because it's baked into exactly
what America was founded upon. I mean, there is no
country that welcome people from every corner of the earth
like America has. So all of us have a history
of there's a reason that your ancestors came here, there's
a reason that my ancestors came here. And so I
do think there are some better self defenses within that.
(25:55):
And actually I would say that the people that are
really going off about this stuff, and it's even a
shame we've had this and this much time talking about it,
they're actually fundamentally attacking America in the end.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yes, if they're.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Fundamentally attacking our ability, we are, whether they like it
or not, found it on Judeo Christian values. If they
want to try to figure out how to separate thousands
of years of history between Jerusalem and Rome, they.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Can go ahead and do it. But that's just the fact.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
And when they attack, when you go and say those
people did this, and those are the source of all
your problems. You're attacking the fundamental underpinnings of what America is.
Everyone's got a shot here and it's up to you
to figure out what to do with your life and
pursue happiness.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I think that's in a document somewhere.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, that's true. Yes, that's true. I mean they're effective propagandists,
but it is propaganda. There's one more thing that I
want to ask you about. And I feel kind of
silly asking you about this because I don't know anything
about it. But I saw it on your Twitter page
and I was like, what does he mean by oh Twitch?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Whatever I say on there that shouldn't be held to
a court a long Yeah, what about Twitch?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
It is like, you are you indicated that this is
like a dangerous place and I don't know anything.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
About well, I don't know what tremendous amount about Twitch,
But you know, there's all these other places where, you know,
it's a lot of gamers. Most of the mostly it's
people that are live streaming games, but then they're you know,
they're talking through the game. So you're watching someone play
Fortnite or whatever it is, and they're talking through all
this stuff. And they get a huge amount of fourteen
fifteen year old usually boys, watching this stuff, and then
(27:25):
they start spewing.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
In political propaganda within that.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
So you know, we think it's just oh, CNN's lying
and New York Times is lying, or okay, some idiot
on YouTube saying this, But there is a whole other
world out there that you and I of a certain age,
as gen xers, we.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Had nothing to do with.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It came way after us and we don't really understand,
but our kids are are damn well going to understand it,
most likely for the worst. And I would say between
Twitch and a lot of what's going on at Reddit, and.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
There's a few of these other places.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
These are like the underbelly of the Internet, places where
they're grabbing young minds. Discord as well, which also I
think basically started as a community for gamers. There is
something going on there that needs to be looked at
because there are crazy, crazy things happening there and they're
they're hijacking the minds of young people.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I feel like we are not
allowed to talk about Tyler Robinson as a person and
that scares me because he was someone's child, and he
is someone's child that this somehow happened that his mind,
(28:33):
his parents certainly weren't saying this to him. And so
when I saw that post, that's what I thought, Okay,
you're telling us that there's something dark happening here, and
I wanted to talk about it because I don't know
about it. And I think a lot of people that
listen to this podcast are probably my age and maybe
you know a little younger, a little older, but have
kids around.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Mike, how old do you am? I allowed to ask,
how old do you are? I'm really yeah, yeah, so
I'm forty nine. So okay, I thought, Yeah, I figured
we were closed enough. Yeah, but that's the point we
did not. We are the last gen X is the
last generation that fully remembers the world before the phone.
You are the last ones. We are the ones that
came home from school and I would get on my
bike with all my buddies and we would disappear till
(29:17):
dinner time, and it was fine, and that's the way
it was supposed to be. They literally would put PSAs
on television. It's ten o'clock. Do you know where your
kids are because because parents didn't know. But it wasn't bad.
It was because the world was better, that's the thing.
So yes, there now is a world. You know. We
think Tyler Robinson's a good example. By all accounts, he
came from a solid family that had decent values. We're
(29:40):
not hearing anything crazy about the family, parents married, all
of those things.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Goes to college. The easy version.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Is, oh, he just got radicalized in a year and
a half at college. Now that's probably true to some extent.
There probably was some level of that going on at
the school, probably, But then you have to think a
year and a half, you take someone who's roughly normal
for lack of a better term, and then turn them
into a murderer. And the crazy part is if you
read the text between him and the trans roommate or
(30:07):
lover or whatever it was, you know he's saying, I'm
going to do this for you, my love in essence,
but it's like, what were you really thinking there? If
you had only thought for a split second longer, your
life is now over because you're gonna either die by
firing squad or end up in prison for the rest
of your life. The trans guy his life is his
functioning life is over because this is his defining moment
that he'll never get over.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
So you didn't save anything.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
But that's the level of craziness that they can get
wrapped up into between education system that lies to them,
my mainstream media that lies, and then this other part,
this underbelly of the internet stuff that I just I'm
not even that privy to it, but we just know
it's there.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I know.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I mean, I've had people in my life who actually,
in the last few weeks I've really been paying attention to.
Even my mom will come to me and be like,
oh my gosh, did you see that the Detroit Lions
gave a million dollars to Erica Kirk? And I'm like, no, Mom,
that's not true. You know it's there is so much
information out there that's just fake that she's getting caught
(31:09):
up in these la la stories. And I think kids
can get caught up in the dark stories. And that's
why I just wanted to share it. I saw it
and I said, these are things I don't know. And
I also I sometimes think we're too quick to say
we refuse to talk about the shooter because we can't
prevent it. If we don't learn why it happened. And
(31:29):
see make sure other kids aren't going through this because
this is dark. Like you said, if you think through this,
this is not a good idea. So how did he
get there? And I appreciate you going there with me
because I wanted to talk about that. So thank you,
Thank you for sharing your stories about Charlie. Is there
anything that we don't know that is a behind the
scenes story that you can share?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Well, just real quick, I'll tell you one thing that
I have mentioned. I think I put it up on
Twitter when I was opening or when I was doing
my last book tour a couple of years ago. We
were in Arizona and that's where Turning Point is in Phoenix,
and I said, Charlie, could you open for me? He
was in crippling back pain. You know, Charlie was really tall,
he was about six foot five and he had a
lot of back stuff. He was a great basketball player
(32:09):
and he was a kid, which I just found out
now I just saw some videos. He was a great player. Anyway,
he had really really bad back pain. He said, Dave,
I will try, but I don't even know that. I
can literally get in a car to get there, so
about an hour before the show, we didn't know.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
If he was going to be there.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
So Blake Masters, who was running for senate at the time,
he was kind of the backup at the time in
case Charlie couldn't do it. Charlie shows up a few
minutes before the show. He literally was laying in the
green room on the floor. That's how much pain he
was in. Couldn't even I have a picture. I'll send
it to you. I have a picture of him trying
to sit on the couch and he couldn't even sit
on the couch.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
He was laying on the floor and you can see
how uncomfortable he is.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Anyway, he goes up, he does about ten minutes, opens
for me and then he says, Dave, listen, and you know,
the audience was so happy to see him. And that's
his home area there, like he wanted to stay for
the meet and greet and everything, and he was in
just crippling pain. And he said, Dave, I'm so sorry,
but I got to get going. He did a great
job and he would not even take money. I tried
to offer him money for the appearance. He would not
even take money.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And that was Charlie.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
That's that is a good and for anybody listening who
is like, what does he mean by take money? Everybody
tries to get money in this business, and when you
see someone who doesn't, I will just plug Clay for
a minute, because Clay Travis, we have a big event
coming up this weekend in on Macina Island and we
were desperate for a headliner and I called him and
(33:28):
I was like, I need a favor and we're like,
really broke, we need your help, and he was like,
I got you. And that just tells you so much
about who people are when they go, I'm there for
you when you need me. So I appreciate you sharing that.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
You know, It's funny.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I'm not a fan of lists because it's usually the
Communists and the Marxists that love lists, But like Clay
and you, and there's a few of the people that
are that are on my sort of mental list of
that are just good people amidst this, Like it doesn't
matter what the politics are that you obviously know are
good humans and that's what we have to kind of
focus on right now as we watch some of the craziness.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, well, I so enjoyed having you, because you are
a breath of fresh air. Dave Rubin, thank you so
much for being on today. It's good to see you,
Tutor absolutely, and thank you all for joining us. Remember
you can find us anywhere you get your podcasts iHeartRadio, app,
Apple Podcasts, or watch it on Rumble and YouTube at
Tutor Dixon and join us the next time. Have a
blessed day.
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I have the host
of The Ruben Report with me here today, Dave Rubin.
And Dave, I'm so glad that you're on because we
were just talking before we got on about how heavy
things feel right now, and I saw your tribute to
Charlie Kirk in the New York Post and I wanted
to say that was beautiful, very well done.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well thanks and it's good to see you, Tutor.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
You know, we're all in this weird spot because if
you do something like we do for a living, so
you talk about politics or culture or whatever, and you
happen to be on the let's say, on the right,
you know, we're all in the same world. We all
kind of know each other one way or another, you know,
whether we're doing it just through the cameras like you
and I are doing now, or doing events like I
(00:46):
used to do with Charlie colleges all the time, or whatever.
And then there's this weird moment where suddenly you feel, wow,
this guy that I know my friend is dead, and
yet you have to narrate it live, have to then
talk about it on TV. We have to do this,
and I feel like, actually it wasn't I said on
my show this morning. It wasn't until last night at
(01:07):
about seven o'clock. This is eight days later, that it suddenly,
I think, really hit me what's going on here? Because
I played basketball every Wednesday with this group of guys
and a guy who I don't know particularly well outside
of basketball just came up to me and he kind
of had glassy eyes and he said, Dave, I'm so
sorry for your loss. And it was the first something
about the fact that basketball, to me has nothing to
(01:28):
do with politics or the rest of it. It suddenly
was like, WHOA, something really big happen. I know that
may sound weird or strange or something, but it's been
a really difficult.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Look.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
It's a horrific, horrific time. Charlie was a father first
and a husband, and he was a good man and
he was trying to do whether I agreed with him
on everything or not, which I certainly didn't, although over
the years we definitely came closer as it pertained to
our opinions on things, largely because I moved to his positions.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
There's a huge loss for America. And as you said
to me right before we started the.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Morning period, is now just crazy because of social media,
we immediately start the fighting again. And I'm really really
trying this week not to add to the craziness. I'm
probably failing at it every other turn, but it's just
on us to try to be a little bit better
right now, I think, and thank you for the kind
words about the New York Post thing. You know, I
did that literally in ten minutes. They said, can you
(02:23):
get us to this? Can you get this to us immediately?
And it was just like I just threw it out
there and they said, Okay, we're not even going to
edit it.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Go So yeah, Well, I think what you're saying about
mourning is something we've kind of talked about it in
the dark corners, in the privacy of home, is like,
what is it like for the family to be going
through this while there's battles on social media? And we
went into this all kind of shocked. That day, I
(02:52):
remember thinking, how did we get to this point where
there is a side that hates us so much? How
could we possibly? I felt it. I ran for office.
I felt hatred. I really felt hatred. I'll tell you
a story. I felt so much hatred that when Trump
was running, I went to one of the Fox News
(03:14):
events where they come to a diner and sit down,
and there was a group of Kamala Harris supporters that
were protesting right but they were sitting there at the
diner and they just yeall occasionally. And then at the
end I went to walk out, and I thought, you know,
I should go talk to them, because that's the right
thing to do. And I sat down with them and
we talked for probably forty five minutes, and they were
(03:34):
trying to get me to vote for Kamala, and I thought,
this is really weird that they're just giving me so
much time, you know. And we talked about my position
on abortion, and they told me some really powerful stories
that honestly gave me a different perspective. And it was
a great conversation. And at the end, they said, what's
your name? And I said, I thought, oh my gosh,
(03:55):
they don't know and I said it's Tutor. And the
one woman she looked at me, she goes, not that tutor,
And I said, there's a reason I didn't lead with that,
and she looked at me. Her jaw hit the table
and she goes, I hated you, but you turned out
to be really nice. Why can't But that's what Charlie
(04:18):
was doing. He was like, have the conversation, and I've
racked my brain, but you would know this, how do
you have the conversation? How do you do that? Because
they'd talk to me because they didn't know who I was,
but we loved each other.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Once we talked, Well, it's almost impossible to do what
Charlie was doing, which is why he was basically the
only one doing it. You know, years ago, around twenty eighteen,
when Charlie and I were on tour with Turning Point
together going to these events, that was before we even
called it woke. We you know, we were going to
college campuses. It was about identity politics and all the
(04:52):
weird gender stuff and all that, and everybody, all the
criticism that we would get from New York Times and
CNN and all these other things, was oh, like, oh,
look at them, they're just making fun of college students.
You know, they're just going on to college campuses to
instigate and inflame and.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
And what we would always try to do there was
Charlie and I would debate whatever it might be, so
it could be marriage equality or abortion or just whatever
the things were that we would debate, we would always
do it respectfully and everything else we would always And
this was Charlie's idea that I've used in every one
of my public events since. If you had a for
the Q and a if you disagreed with us, please
come up first. We didn't want to just hear people
(05:28):
say nice things to us at the end. But what
was interesting, because you use the word hate there, and
that's what I think people are really focusing on right
now is the protesters that would be outside, the ones
that were pulling the fire alarms or threat you know,
calling in bomb threats, or throwing things at us, or
bringing noise makers to silence us, or they have a
laundry list of twenty other things that they do. Like
(05:50):
sometimes I would walk to the campus before and I'd
go in a hat and a T shirt, so not
in my usual things, so maybe they wouldn't recognize me,
or sunglasses, and I kind of get close to to
the groups, and then I stopped doing it after I
got recognized a few times. But hatred is the right word.
They had been so confused and manipulated by the machine
(06:11):
that calls us all Nazis and all the worst thing
in the world. That you could see it in their eyes.
I mean you really could see it in their eyes.
There's a video that your audience can check that it's
on my channel. I did an event with Turning Point
around twenty eighteen at University in New Hampshire and I
was supposed to be it was supposed to be me,
Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens, and I think it was
(06:32):
that day that Kanye tweeted out I like the way
Candace Owens thinks, I know this all feels like a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Ago and let's not even go into any of that
right now.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
However, because of that tweet, Candace and Charlie I think
went to meet Kanye, so they left me to do
the event alone. And I go to University in New
Hampshire and we were supposed to be on campus, but
because there were so many protesters and it was starting
to get violent, the campus said we're not doing it
on campus. We'll send you to the Vocal hockey rink.
So first the campus had already conceded defeat. Right once
(07:04):
you say we can't even secure our own campus from
our own students, we're gonna put it off site. You've
already given them a huge win. Then once they did that,
that instigated hundreds, if not literally thousands of more protesters
to show up to the event. So then I end
up doing an event that was supposed to be invite only,
you know, five hundred people. I end up doing it
at a hockey rink that was supposed to see thousands
(07:26):
of people. So you know what that feels like. You know,
if you're doing an event that's supposed to be a
sold out room and now you're thousands of empty seats
behind you because they decided to not let any more
people in. Then once the good people heard, they wanted
to come in, but then they were realizing they couldn't
control the crowd or anything else. I mentioned this all
to say the level of hatred that was thrown at
me that day, and it had nothing to do with
(07:47):
my own positions. I kept I basically stopped my speech,
and I kept saying to them, guys, tell me, tell me.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
What it is that you think. Why are you protesting me?
Really try to tell me.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And it was just endless insanity that had nothing to
do with anything I had said before.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But all the usual buzzwords. And this is where I
always say, you have to give the left.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Credit, not for their ideas, not for their ideas or
what they have done. You have to give them credit
for playing a certain game. And the game they played
was could we break the minds of young people to
hopefully overtime attain power. And the simple answer to that
is yes. So you don't have to you don't have
to like what they did, but you have to respect
the game that they played.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
The words are very hard to fight. And once everybody
says once you're explaining, you're losing, and it's true because
once they accuse you of something else, yes I didn't
do that, or that isn't true or that didn't happen,
then you're explaining. And I think it's very hard for
anybody on the right in a purple area to effectively
(08:51):
campaign because they have been so successful. But that was
where really Charlie was coming in and easing up a
little bit of especially in Arizona. I think he was
out there quite a bit easing up on a lot
of that. You when you met him, you were a Democrat,
So how did you what made you go? I'm not
(09:12):
I don't believe in everything he says, but maybe I'm
not on that side.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Charlie and I met when I was just kind of
leaving the left.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You know, I was.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I was progressive the whole thing. I was on the
Young Turks. Most people know that whole story. And I
started seeing the hysteria what we now all see very obviously.
I just saw it very early because I was in it.
And as I was in it, what I realized was, Okay,
these people seem pretty nutty, and I'm not able to
convince the lefties to be liberal in the truest sense.
(09:43):
Let me see who else I can talk to. I
happened to meet Charlie at an event in West Palm Beach.
Within literally ten minutes. I'm not making this up. He
was like, listen, I see we have some disagreements, but
let's go on tour together and see what happens. And
that's what we did. It was as simple as that.
It wasn't it was. We didn't have to sit down
and contract. It was literally as simple as that. And
(10:03):
what I realized over time was that Charlie genuinely wanted
to have that conversation. He genuinely did, and by the way,
We had to earn trust with each other too, because
you know, on one hand, I'm looking at him like,
I don't know, can I trust these crazy conservatives? Because
I still had probably some some PTSD of like, well,
they say all these horrible things about these guys, right,
so can I trust them?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And for Charlie it was a risk.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Because you know, can he trust this guy who was
on the Young Turks? So we really had to work
that through and people saw it happen on camera in
real time. But Tutor, the truth is, it happened. It
happened for us as friends as well. It happened over dinners,
It happened over sitting with our spouses next to each
other at weddings, It happened on long car rides driving
(10:47):
to these places. We were always churning through those things
and kind of measuring each other up.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And you know, another thing I.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Can say about Charlie is over the years I spoke
in many of the turning point events and when I
really had completely different political views, and he was still
in fighting me because I defended free speech. He never
want asked me what I was going to say. He
never once said you should say this, never looked at
a speech.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Or anything else.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
As a matter of fact, I don't even remember what
year it is anymore because this all goes by so fast.
But when Trump was being impeached the first time, it
was right before Christmas. What was that twenty twenty eighteen?
Was that about twenty.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Eight He's been twenty seventeen axt Yah.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's hard to even remember.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It all starts, it all starts becoming one thing, twenty seventeen,
twenty eighteen. I actually was the speaker at turning point
before Trump.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
They did not say anything.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
They didn't say you have to not say this that,
don't say anything.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I didn't keep it in nothing, nothing, nothing.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
They just let you do your thing, because that was
how strong his respect for free speech was. So Look,
I just have nothing but respect for the guy. But
that is completely secondary to the human part of this
that we just keep, we.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Keep glossing by.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
So to see all these people fighting about his legacy
now releasing text messages, all of these things, like I
have text.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Messages from Charlie.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I wouldn't better applicable, like relative to politics and people,
I would never release them.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Like it's just it's just.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
A thing that fascinates me about what you said just now, though,
Is that you just explained everything people are fighting about
with regard to Charlie. He was going to give anybody
a platform. He wasn't married to a donor, he wasn't
married to an ideology he wanted. He was married to
free speech. He wanted people to be able to talk.
He wasn't going to silence anyone. So I think that's
(12:28):
what's stunning about seeing this on multiple levels. It's souring
what we know of Charlie Kirk. And I think that
the first few days even I was seeing posts that
I had never seen, and even even in the last day,
I've seen some really beautiful videos of he and his
wife together, and that true love in a way that
(12:50):
you watch it and you go, that's true love. That
is something special, that's something that should be shared because
young people should see that that exists, you know. And
so as I've seen those videos have been it's drawn
me into their story in a way that I wasn't anticipating.
And yet you have this ugly noise in the background.
And I think it's somewhat stunning because it's people who
(13:12):
I watched for years and said, oh, they're very close
friends to his to him, But yeah, who would ever?
Who would ever? And this is not even like a
political thing or an ideology thing or a social media thing.
It's a human decency thing. Who would release messages from
someone after they died.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Especially for your own political purposes? I mean, that's what's
so twisted about. To then say it's in the name
of friendship or something like that is extraordinary. But with that,
you know, let's not even dive into that, because there's
just so many fights about that, and I think we
can probably do something a little better here. I'll tell
you something else about Charlie. Charlie did two things that
I think were sort of amazing, and he did them
at once, because everyone can talk about politics, but Charlie
(13:52):
talked about faith in politics at the same time. And
that's very complex because faith your faith. In American perspective,
people of every walk of life, right, we have Christians
and Jews and Muslims and Atheists and Hindus and everybody else,
and most Americans want that. Most Americans want there to
be all sorts of people here and everything else. Charlie
(14:13):
talked about his faith as a Christian, and he talked
about his politics at the same time. And I don't
know if you saw this video, it's been going viral
from a few years ago. But he goes to one
of these events a young and it's a young guy
who seems to be sort of radical, let's say radically
anti gay for lack of a better term. And Charlie
basically lays out what his belief is in faith and
(14:35):
then also explains what America is and says, I don't
want America to be a theocracy. And Charlie was the
one that was welcoming. He was widening the tent. The
thing that got Tulcy Gabbard and Bobby Kennedy and Joe
Rogan and Elon Musk and me and so many others
to side with conservatism was because of what Charlie was
(14:57):
doing on the ground that then Trump leveled up nationally.
So he had a beautiful way of saying, hey, I
have a set of beliefs that I think are right
for me and my family and I think could scale
across the country. But also I don't want to rule
the country as a theocratic leader.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So everyone can be part of this.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
That is so the message that people should, that particularly
young people should hear and then think about right, And
that was very hard to do because it's not that
from in a secular world. It's not that easy to
talk about those things. So he really did so many
things that I think years from now people will realize
how important they were.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
All Right, you want to stick around because we've got
more coming up with Dave Rubin, But first let's talk
about my partners at IFCJ. It was nearly two years
ago that the terrorist murdered twelve hundred innocent Israelis. They
took two hundred and fifty hostages, and today it seems
like you're not even hearing about it. It seems like
the cries of those people they're just being shouted down
(15:54):
by these anti Semitic hatred rants, and it's shocking to me.
It's almost like this brutal attack on the Jewish people,
that was the most brutal attack since the Holocaust, it's
almost like it's been forgotten because it feels like the
world's looking away. But I want you to know that
there is a light that shines in the darkness right now.
It is a movement, and it is filled with love
(16:14):
and support for the people of Israel. You can be involved.
It's called Flags of Fellowship and it's organized by the
International Fellowship of Christians in Jews. On October fifth, it's
just a few weeks away, there will be millions of
Americans that will prayerfully plant and Israeli flag in honor
and insolidarity with the victims of the October seventh, twenty
(16:35):
twenty three attack and their grieving families. And you can
be a part of this. You have to go to
the Fellowship to get more information. You can join Flags
of Fellowship movement. Just visit the fellowship online at IFCJ
dot org. It's worth it you guys. We want you
to be a part of it, so please go. It's
IFCJ dot org. Now stay tuned. We've got more with
(16:56):
Dave Ruben after this. It's extremely hard, I mean, especially
if you are running for office too. I had times
when Christians would look at me and say, don't go
out there and say that you're a Christian. Well, but
I want you to know who I am, And there
weren't many people that would back you up on that.
You know, which this is her faith, that's part of
(17:18):
who she is, just like Speaker Johnson, but Speaker Johnson
doesn't want everybody to be Christian. He wants he stands
for America. Those two things are not separate, but it's
very hard to explain that in the political realm where
it doesn't offend, which seems it seems like we've crossed
a new line where if you talk about faith in
(17:38):
any way then you've offended someone, And I like, how
to get over that?
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Well, I think some of that and maybe this is
a silver lining to what has happened here, Some of
that does seem like it's scaling back, because suddenly I
think people do feel that they can speak about it.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
It's interesting Also, Charlie was in evangelical, so he wanted
to evangelize about his faith, meaning he might in Charlie's home,
and it's hard to talk about somebody when they're not
around anymore in a sense, But in his heart, it's
within the evangelical philosophy that he wanted to prostlytize his religion.
But what he didn't want to do was force anyone
(18:13):
to believe in his religion. So he Mike Johnson, I
would say, is somewhat similar. Mike Johnson may want more
people to convert but he's not going.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
To use the power.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I have no evidence, let's say, to say that he
wants to use the power of the state to do it.
Does he ultimately want every Hindu to convert to Christianity?
Like there actually might be a part there. But if
as long as you're not going to use the power
of the state to force people into what you believe,
then you should because otherwise, what can we only talk about?
So we can only talk about the thing that's happening
(18:43):
now that should be the prism that we talk about
everything through that doesn't well, look where that got us actually.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And I do think that as I watch what's happened,
I think it's beautiful to see all of these videos
where he says, this is my experience with Jesus, and
I want you to know Jesus too. And that's just
what I'm saying about it is this is Jesus has
given me something great. And you don't even have to
hear him talk about Jesus too. Like I said, when
I see these videos of he and his wife together,
(19:10):
I'm like, that is what young people need to see.
That is what for me as a Christian, I see
his faith as this three strand rope. You know, I
saw it as Erica, Charlie and Jesus together. When I
see these videos now and I'm like, oh man, this
is something that I didn't see before. And that to you,
(19:33):
to your point of the silver lining, that's the silver lining.
I get to see what Jesus looks like in a
very strong marriage that was also able to go out
and engage with the next generation, which is at Christians
what we want to do. We want to tell the
next generation we love you, and we have something crazy
in the pudding.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
The proof is in the pudding, right, Like, that's basically
what you're saying that without having forced anyone to believe
anything else.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
The proof is in the putting. And what is the putting.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
The putting in this case is that when you watch
the videos of Charlie and his wife and his kids,
you see a good man, right, You're not even with
some of the fighting going on around him. Now, there's
very I don't hear a lot of people outside of
like sort of the crazy leftists saying that Charlie was
some sort of hypocrite or liar or anything else. Like
most people are saying this was a good man, and
(20:18):
you know, if I suppose if we had a few
more examples of that, that would be good. You know,
I saw a piece in the Free Press this morning
from someone who was a totally totally secular, non religious
Jew who's now practicing Judaism because of Charlie Kirk practicing Christianity.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
So that's the point. That's the point.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And I'm not saying everybody has to practice anything. Everyone
should figure out what their own philosophical and religious beliefs
are for themselves and all of those things. But the
point is there's something going on here that's not exactly political,
and we don't really know how to talk about that at.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
A national level yet.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I've had a lot of people come to me and
ask me why Israel is being attacked in this, and
that to me is it's just an interesting contrast because
as faith in God is strengthening, you always see an attack.
So it's like there is a spiritual warfare out there.
We should expect this, This should not surprise us. This
(21:11):
is not a political issue. This is so much bigger
than that. We should know that when Christianity grows, and
when belief in God grows, and when when Jewish people
become stronger in their faith as well the enemy, and
the enemy comes in heart. And I'll tell you it
was shocking to me. Even last night. I was at
the hairdresser and the one of the gals there looked
(21:34):
at me and she was like, do you think Israel
was behind this? I'm my gosh, this is not a
this is not a conservative, this is just a person.
And I'm like, the enemy has power and that's something
that when people are all at each other's throats, it's
not there is a bigger power here. Don't let it
take you.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, the crazy part of course of all of this.
First off, we know who the shooter is, we know
who the like. There's not a question here. It's not
as if there's so one on the run and we
don't know what happened here. We basically have an admission.
And we also have information now from the parents about
the evolution of Tyler Robinson and all of that. Look
as for the crazy conspiracy theorists and everything else, I mean,
(22:11):
I think you just said it quite well, like we
should expect this. The set of people who have been
saying the craziest possible things. Really, I would say for
the last two years to the backdrop of October seventh. Well, yes,
they're using this to say more crazy things. And this
is the nature of the Internet where you can drag
people down endless rabbit holes and everything else. And at
(22:32):
the end of every conspiracy theory, as my friend Gad said, talks.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
About there's the Jew.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Look, they did this all before the state of Israel, right,
why in essence, that's why the modern state of Israel exists.
Before Israel exists, they blame the Jews. Now Israel exists,
they blame Israel. So it just kind of it's just
kind of baked into the thing. And actually I had
a Rabbi, David Walby on my show We're going to
put it up on Monday, and I asked him about this,
is this just baked into the story of the Jews?
(22:58):
And he said, while he wouldn't like to blame leave
that in some sense that there probably are historical and
philosophical reasons for that. And I think the simplest explanation
is people want simple answers for everything. They want simple
answers for everything, and especially in a world where we
view victimhoods.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So highly, and apparently people on.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
The right do it as well, it's very easy for
us to show that people on the left. Do you know,
if you take a minority group that has been pagrummed
and holocausted and all of these things over time, and
somehow they're still here, and they're still successful, and they
still largely maintain family and the things that most of
us think are important. It doesn't quite fit the calculator.
It doesn't quite fit the calculator. But I'd much rather
(23:42):
stand up and be hated than live on my knees
and beloved.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
That is such a good point. I've told this story
a lot of times, but we years ago we interviewed
Holocaust survivors and I sat with this one couple. They
had both been in concentration camps, and the husband talked
the whole time. The wife said nothing, almost to the
point where it was uncomfortable. I'm like, am I insulting you?
You know what is happening? And she had a very
(24:06):
stern look on her face. And I'm both very old, obviously,
and because they'd been in the Holocaust and they were
she was sitting in a chair. She couldn't get up
and walk anymore. And as I said goodbye, and as
I walked out. She very forcefully grabbed my arm and
it was the first time she'd even moved, so it
was quite shocking, you know, and she looked at me
(24:26):
with a lot of anger. But it was such a
Now I look back at it, it's like this was
a warning from God, because she looked at me and
she said, they hate the Jews, and they'll do it again.
And in my and this was probably five years ago.
Oh no, it would have been like seven years ago.
And in my naivete I remember thinking, well, no, we
(24:48):
aren't like that anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Well, I don't look at the end of the day,
I don't think the warning is probably correct, and I
certainly wouldn't gloss over a warning of someone that has
lived through that. I do think from an American perspective,
we are so much better than this, and I think
this has been This is actually a very niche thing
that unfortunately because of algorithms, and I would say some
(25:11):
very let's say confused trying to be nice here, I
guess confused influencers. It feels like it is scaled crazy
and it is upsetting. You know, you go to a
hairdresser and then hear something like that, so that it does,
so some of it does leak into reality. But I
would say, by and large, from an American perspective, Americans
are the most loving, decent, love your neighbor, live differently
(25:32):
people that have ever existed, because it's baked into exactly
what America was founded upon. I mean, there is no
country that welcome people from every corner of the earth
like America has. So all of us have a history
of there's a reason that your ancestors came here, there's
a reason that my ancestors came here. And so I
do think there are some better self defenses within that.
(25:55):
And actually I would say that the people that are
really going off about this stuff, and it's even a
shame we've had this and this much time talking about it,
they're actually fundamentally attacking America in the end.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yes, if they're.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Fundamentally attacking our ability, we are, whether they like it
or not, found it on Judeo Christian values. If they
want to try to figure out how to separate thousands
of years of history between Jerusalem and Rome, they.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Can go ahead and do it. But that's just the fact.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
And when they attack, when you go and say those
people did this, and those are the source of all
your problems. You're attacking the fundamental underpinnings of what America is.
Everyone's got a shot here and it's up to you
to figure out what to do with your life and
pursue happiness.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I think that's in a document somewhere.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, that's true. Yes, that's true. I mean they're effective propagandists,
but it is propaganda. There's one more thing that I
want to ask you about. And I feel kind of
silly asking you about this because I don't know anything
about it. But I saw it on your Twitter page
and I was like, what does he mean by oh Twitch?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Whatever I say on there that shouldn't be held to
a court a long Yeah, what about Twitch?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
It is like, you are you indicated that this is
like a dangerous place and I don't know anything.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
About well, I don't know what tremendous amount about Twitch,
But you know, there's all these other places where, you know,
it's a lot of gamers. Most of the mostly it's
people that are live streaming games, but then they're you know,
they're talking through the game. So you're watching someone play
Fortnite or whatever it is, and they're talking through all
this stuff. And they get a huge amount of fourteen
fifteen year old usually boys, watching this stuff, and then
(27:25):
they start spewing.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
In political propaganda within that.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
So you know, we think it's just oh, CNN's lying
and New York Times is lying, or okay, some idiot
on YouTube saying this, But there is a whole other
world out there that you and I of a certain age,
as gen xers, we.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Had nothing to do with.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It came way after us and we don't really understand,
but our kids are are damn well going to understand it,
most likely for the worst. And I would say between
Twitch and a lot of what's going on at Reddit, and.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
There's a few of these other places.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
These are like the underbelly of the Internet, places where
they're grabbing young minds. Discord as well, which also I
think basically started as a community for gamers. There is
something going on there that needs to be looked at
because there are crazy, crazy things happening there and they're
they're hijacking the minds of young people.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I feel like we are not
allowed to talk about Tyler Robinson as a person and
that scares me because he was someone's child, and he
is someone's child that this somehow happened that his mind,
(28:33):
his parents certainly weren't saying this to him. And so
when I saw that post, that's what I thought, Okay,
you're telling us that there's something dark happening here, and
I wanted to talk about it because I don't know
about it. And I think a lot of people that
listen to this podcast are probably my age and maybe
you know a little younger, a little older, but have
kids around.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Mike, how old do you am? I allowed to ask,
how old do you are? I'm really yeah, yeah, so
I'm forty nine. So okay, I thought, Yeah, I figured
we were closed enough. Yeah, but that's the point we
did not. We are the last gen X is the
last generation that fully remembers the world before the phone.
You are the last ones. We are the ones that
came home from school and I would get on my
bike with all my buddies and we would disappear till
(29:17):
dinner time, and it was fine, and that's the way
it was supposed to be. They literally would put PSAs
on television. It's ten o'clock. Do you know where your
kids are because because parents didn't know. But it wasn't bad.
It was because the world was better, that's the thing.
So yes, there now is a world. You know. We
think Tyler Robinson's a good example. By all accounts, he
came from a solid family that had decent values. We're
(29:40):
not hearing anything crazy about the family, parents married, all
of those things.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Goes to college. The easy version.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Is, oh, he just got radicalized in a year and
a half at college. Now that's probably true to some extent.
There probably was some level of that going on at
the school, probably, But then you have to think a
year and a half, you take someone who's roughly normal
for lack of a better term, and then turn them
into a murderer. And the crazy part is if you
read the text between him and the trans roommate or
(30:07):
lover or whatever it was, you know he's saying, I'm
going to do this for you, my love in essence,
but it's like, what were you really thinking there? If
you had only thought for a split second longer, your
life is now over because you're gonna either die by
firing squad or end up in prison for the rest
of your life. The trans guy his life is his
functioning life is over because this is his defining moment
that he'll never get over.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
So you didn't save anything.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
But that's the level of craziness that they can get
wrapped up into between education system that lies to them,
my mainstream media that lies, and then this other part,
this underbelly of the internet stuff that I just I'm
not even that privy to it, but we just know
it's there.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I know.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I mean, I've had people in my life who actually,
in the last few weeks I've really been paying attention to.
Even my mom will come to me and be like,
oh my gosh, did you see that the Detroit Lions
gave a million dollars to Erica Kirk? And I'm like, no, Mom,
that's not true. You know it's there is so much
information out there that's just fake that she's getting caught
(31:09):
up in these la la stories. And I think kids
can get caught up in the dark stories. And that's
why I just wanted to share it. I saw it
and I said, these are things I don't know. And
I also I sometimes think we're too quick to say
we refuse to talk about the shooter because we can't
prevent it. If we don't learn why it happened. And
(31:29):
see make sure other kids aren't going through this because
this is dark. Like you said, if you think through this,
this is not a good idea. So how did he
get there? And I appreciate you going there with me
because I wanted to talk about that. So thank you,
Thank you for sharing your stories about Charlie. Is there
anything that we don't know that is a behind the
scenes story that you can share?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Well, just real quick, I'll tell you one thing that
I have mentioned. I think I put it up on
Twitter when I was opening or when I was doing
my last book tour a couple of years ago. We
were in Arizona and that's where Turning Point is in Phoenix,
and I said, Charlie, could you open for me? He
was in crippling back pain. You know, Charlie was really tall,
he was about six foot five and he had a
lot of back stuff. He was a great basketball player
(32:09):
and he was a kid, which I just found out
now I just saw some videos. He was a great player. Anyway,
he had really really bad back pain. He said, Dave,
I will try, but I don't even know that. I
can literally get in a car to get there, so
about an hour before the show, we didn't know.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
If he was going to be there.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
So Blake Masters, who was running for senate at the time,
he was kind of the backup at the time in
case Charlie couldn't do it. Charlie shows up a few
minutes before the show. He literally was laying in the
green room on the floor. That's how much pain he
was in. Couldn't even I have a picture. I'll send
it to you. I have a picture of him trying
to sit on the couch and he couldn't even sit
on the couch.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
He was laying on the floor and you can see
how uncomfortable he is.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Anyway, he goes up, he does about ten minutes, opens
for me and then he says, Dave, listen, and you know,
the audience was so happy to see him. And that's
his home area there, like he wanted to stay for
the meet and greet and everything, and he was in
just crippling pain. And he said, Dave, I'm so sorry,
but I got to get going. He did a great
job and he would not even take money. I tried
to offer him money for the appearance. He would not
even take money.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And that was Charlie.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
That's that is a good and for anybody listening who
is like, what does he mean by take money? Everybody
tries to get money in this business, and when you
see someone who doesn't, I will just plug Clay for
a minute, because Clay Travis, we have a big event
coming up this weekend in on Macina Island and we
were desperate for a headliner and I called him and
(33:28):
I was like, I need a favor and we're like,
really broke, we need your help, and he was like,
I got you. And that just tells you so much
about who people are when they go, I'm there for
you when you need me. So I appreciate you sharing that.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
You know, It's funny.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I'm not a fan of lists because it's usually the
Communists and the Marxists that love lists, But like Clay
and you, and there's a few of the people that
are that are on my sort of mental list of
that are just good people amidst this, Like it doesn't
matter what the politics are that you obviously know are
good humans and that's what we have to kind of
focus on right now as we watch some of the craziness.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, well, I so enjoyed having you, because you are
a breath of fresh air. Dave Rubin, thank you so
much for being on today. It's good to see you,
Tutor absolutely, and thank you all for joining us. Remember
you can find us anywhere you get your podcasts iHeartRadio, app,
Apple Podcasts, or watch it on Rumble and YouTube at
Tutor Dixon and join us the next time. Have a
blessed day.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
Hosts And Creators
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Show Links
WebsiteNewsletterPopular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com