December 22, 2025 • 41 mins
In this powerful episode of The Tudor Dixon Podcast, Elizabeth Smart shares her harrowing story of abduction and her inspiring journey toward healing and recovery. Elizabeth opens up about the critical role of faith, family support, and honest conversations in overcoming trauma. She reflects on resilience, gratitude, and how adversity reshaped her family dynamics, offering hope to listeners facing their own challenges. Elizabeth also introduces her new book, designed to guide and encourage those navigating trauma, healing, and personal growth.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. You probably all remember
the story of Elizabeth Smart. You remember the story of
her being taken from her bed in the middle of
the night in two thousand and two. I think we
were all stuck by the TVs, hoping that this beautiful
little girl would be returned home, and yet believing that
(00:24):
nothing could possibly be, that you couldn't possibly see her
again in this world. And yet we did, And now
I get the pleasure of speaking with this incredible survivor today.
Elizabeth Smart, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Absolutely Like I said, we all watched your story, of course,
and you have spoken out. I've been so impressed with
the way that you have spoken out since the abduction
and the fact that you work so hard for people
who have experienced sexual abuse or abduction and and any
type of exploitation. Like I said, you truly are an
(01:04):
inspiration to us.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh, thank you very much. I mean, I never imagined
this would be my life. I obviously never imagined I
was kidnapped either, But looking back, I'm not sorry that
it happened to me because it's given me so much
purpose and passion in my life. That I would like
to think I would have had, but truthfully, I don't
(01:29):
think I would have had otherwise.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
There was always something special about you know, as I
was watching your Amazon documentary, I was watching through and
you talk about your experience, and obviously we see kind
of a reenactment of what happened with your abductors and
your kidnappers, and something struck me in that, and that
(01:56):
is the strength of your faith at fourteen. I told
you before we got on this podcast, my middle daughter
is fourteen. So I have sixteen, fourteen and two twelve
year old daughters and I so of course, as I
watched this and read your book, I think of my
girls and I think about what they would go through
and how they act today. And you were so strong
(02:19):
at that age, and it struck me as I was
watching your documentary that you were saying, you know, people
would ask me why I wouldn't have run, and it
seemed like that was kind of a theme throughout the
entire retelling of the story. Is almost that you were
trying to say, you know, you have to understand what
it's like. I looked at that story and I was like, what,
(02:42):
what intelligence and calm for you? To do what you
did and be looking for that that moment when you
could escape, and knowing that your family was still there,
like your family seemed to be a strong foundation for
you throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Absolutely, my family was the one thing I felt like
I could rely on because I didn't you know, sexual violence, abuse, rape,
it was not talked about when I was a kid,
at least not in any of the conversations I ever had,
none of the lessons I ever listened to growing up.
(03:21):
It was just something that was not talked about, and
there was very much a sense of shame around it,
you know, when you like went to maturation or when
you first learned what sex was in school, Nobody talked
about the difference between enthusiastic consent versus abuse versus rape,
(03:45):
and so in my mind, it was all very much
the same thing. And I so when I would think
about the possibility of being rescued, I didn't know how
people would respond. I didn't know if I would be
accepted back into polite society, or if I would be
(04:07):
kind of cast out or just be on the outside,
kind of like a pariah. And yeah, I just didn't
know how I was going to be treated. But the
one thing that I really believed and felt and knew
in my heart was that my family would accept me.
And ultimately I felt like if nobody else accepted me
but my family did, that would be worth surviving for.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
There's a moment in the documentary where you are out
so that people know when they took you. He took
you in the middle of the night. He took you
from your house, but you weren't far from your house.
You were out in the woods. They were camping. They
kept you out there camping. There was a one night
when you were outside and you heard people yelling your name.
(04:50):
I mean, it was that like was that like, oh gosh,
they're still looking.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Like mileage wise, I wasn't that far. I was less
than four miles. I think I was about three and
a half mile from my home, but it was incredibly
difficult to get to. I mean I hiked back there
recently with my brother and sister in law And like
as an adult now, who I would say, not that
(05:14):
I was in bad shape back then. I was a kid.
I ran around all the time, but like someone who's
like run marathons now and works out every day. It
was a struggle to get back there. It's very, very
difficult to get back there. So it wasn't just like
a little walk in the park. But yes, I and
at the time, I actually I think I was so
pumped full of adrenaline and fear I didn't realize exactly
(05:39):
how far or near I was in correlation to my
actual home. And I remember hearing my uncle's voice or
what I thought was my uncle's voice, and I remember
just being hopeful that I would be found. I remember
being scared that he would come into camp and then
(06:02):
he would be killed because my captor was right there
and he was pulling out his knife and he was like,
do you recognize this knife? And I mean, of course
I recognized it, how to held to my throat and
then he turned to me and he was like, if
you yell back, if anyone enters this campsite, they'll be
killed and it'll be your fault because you called out.
(06:25):
And so as now as an adult looking back, I
have so much compassion for myself because I was a child.
Of course I didn't have like the logic or the
I don't know the I don't know many adults that
would be able to yell out in that situation though, either.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I mean, even at this point in my life, I
think I'm so protective of the people that I love
that I would rather see myself hurt than watch someone
hurt someone I love.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Absolutely, I feel the same way I felt that as
a kid. I felt like I had to protect my family.
I felt like I had to protect my uncle. I
felt like I had to protect anyone who might possibly
find the camp because I didn't want to be responsible
for anyone's death.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And that's so much on a young child. And I
think that's what people need to remember, is that you
were fourteen years old your faith. That to me, was
what struck me so Hardy. There's a point when you
talk about it, it was Thanksgiving. You were starving most
of the time. I mean, this was such a madman.
There's no food, there was no water. He would leave
(07:37):
the camp and leave you with his wife, who was
sounds like not only horrible to you, but had been
horrible her whole life.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So these were genuinely.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Nasty, horrible devil, I mean, evil demon people that had
taken you. And you talk about him coming back and saying, oh,
there's a Thanksgiving dinner and we can go get this
Thanksgiving dinner. And I was so impressed because we are
told in the Bible to be thankful in all things,
(08:10):
and I oftentimes think, you know, even through the hardest times,
like look at the good, look at the good that
God has provided to me. But I am an adult,
and I think about what would my kids have I
set my kids up for if there is some tragic
situation that they are able to see God and what
God has given.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Them through that.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
And you did, I mean, you said that night, just
like every Thanksgiving, I went through all the things that
I'm thankful for. And then I did that every night
between then and Christmas and went through all the things
you were thankful for. That was the most mature attitude
and the most the strongest foundation in faith that I
(08:52):
could I've ever seen in modern day.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I was so impressed. Well, initially, when I was first kidnapped,
I remember thinking, I mean I remember thinking that first
day that this was the worst, This was rock bottom.
Nothing could be worse than what I was experiencing in
that moment. But then day two came and I was
forced to go naked all day, and that seemed worse.
(09:15):
And I remember that day thinking this is the worst.
Nothing could possibly be worse than this. And then the
next day came and he was like, you need to
learn how to properly make love to your husband, so
you're gonna watch Wanda and I have sex, and then
you're going to have to perform. And that seemed like
the absolute worst. And it was just like continually hitting
(09:38):
these new lows of horribleness, of nightmares, and every time
that this new low would happen, I mean, it was
just like a new level of devastation, and it was
just I was just sinking deeper and deeper and deeper
into just hopelessness. And I just remember feeling like I
(10:02):
can't give up. I am still thirty plus years younger
than them. I mean, just logically I will outlive them.
I mean, should they not kill me, should I you know,
should I not starve to death, should the elements not
take me out? I should still outlive them. And if
(10:22):
I outlive them, I would like to make it back home.
But I will never make it back home if I
just keep thinking that this is the worst. So kind
of from early on, any situation I found myself and
I would try to think of things that would make
that situation worse, because then I could be grateful that
(10:45):
it wasn't that bad. I could be grateful for whatever
the situation was, and that God helped me.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It's such a lesson, no matter what I mean, no
matter what hardship you're going through, is to constantly look
toward what good can come, what good can come, and
in that idea that you can be you could be
back with your family one day. There had to have
been I mean, you were gone for nine months, so
there had to have been a point when you started
(11:14):
to go, I don't know. I don't know if I
can ever if I can ever get back there, and
what does life look like with them? There were moments
where you really didn't know if you'd live through the night.
There's one I want to bring up. You're in California
and it's a drought. It seems like there's no water.
You were constantly searching for water. You didn't have enough
(11:36):
to drink it. It was horrible, and he leaves, He
gets put in prison or in jail, I guess for
for a week, and you and Wanda are there and
you say that you thought that might be the end,
that you that was the one time when you said
maybe I'm not. I've been looking so forward to seeing
my family again, but I'm so thirsty and I'm so hungry,
(11:57):
this might not happen. And then there's a rain, and
you gave that glory to God in that moment.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I remember. I mean, I've been asked so many times
over the years in that situation, couldn't you have just
run away? Wasn't that like the perfect situation to run away?
But I was so dehydrated and just so weak from
not eating that I remember standing up and just feeling
like I was going to pass out. I mean, both
(12:26):
Wanda Barzi and I were just lying on the ground
because we just did not have the energy to stand
up and move around. And I absolutely remember just feeling
like this is the end. I mean, I can't believe
I have survived this long. I guess about that point
it was, it was about eight months. I had survived
(12:47):
eight months only to die of starvation and dehydration. I
remember just almost laughing about it because it just seemed
the irony of it just just seems so pathetic. And
I remember then it did start raining, and it did
(13:09):
absolutely seem like a gift from God because I mean,
we would I think we would have died without it.
It seemed like an answer to blessing, to answer to prayer.
And I mean I remember running outside and we stretched
tarps to catch as much water as we possibly could,
and I remember, I mean just the water tasting so good,
(13:34):
and then even the next couple of days, we had
been able to pour the water into these gallon containers.
But I also remember eventually seeing what looked like, I mean,
things looked like they were growing in the water. But
even then, I mean, I was just grateful for something
to drink. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue
(13:56):
next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. It's such a.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Stark difference, obviously from how you grew up. You had
a beautiful home, a beautiful, strong family. That's to me,
that's a worst nightmare scenario for your family, I mean
for you, but also the trauma that your entire family
goes through. Your sister was in bed with you, and
there's a lot of pressure on her during this time
(14:23):
that you're gone, like who was it?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Can you tell us?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
And it was a god moment that she remembered too,
and suddenly that name came back to her. But I
think about your parents from the outside as we were
watching this, and I know many people have told you
this from the outside, you see the media narrative start
to take hold. It's like, oh, the father must be involved,
(14:47):
there must be something weird happening. It's just such a
bizarre scenario that someone would come into your house and
take you out of your bed. You know, it's so hard,
and there was so little evidence of what happened. It
was so hard for the country to wrap their minds around.
And I think the reason it was so hard was
because none of us want that to ever happen, so
(15:08):
it couldn't happen. It's easier to say it couldn't happen
then to admit that it did happen. What was that
like coming back home? They were obviously, I mean, as parents,
they must have felt so many emotions of failure and
shame and just brokenness and you kind of have to
(15:29):
rebuild each other. But you're fourteen or fifteen when you
got home, right.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, I was fifteen when I got home. What
was that like? Well, there's so many things you just
said that I want to respond to. I mean, number one,
you kind of describe this mindset that this was so
terrible you don't want to think that it can happen
to you. And I actually think that is a very
dangerous mindset because it stops us from having conversations that
(15:56):
are important to have. I mean, the national average that
we know of that our case is reported, it's about
one in five women are sexually abused. In Utah, where
I live, it's even worse. It's about one in three
women are sexually abused in their lifetime, and honestly, I
think it's much higher in both the national average and Utah.
(16:18):
These are just the cases that are reported, because we
know so many don't go reported, and these are very
important conversations to be had. I mean, this is very
important safety information to be had. We sorry not to
go down a rabbit hole, but just to give an
as so, no, I think this is important.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
This is what, like I said, I do think that
we like to say it's impossible because we don't want
it to have to happen to us, and then we
are unprepared.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Exactly, And we have so much safety education, which I
think is great. I'm a fan of all safety education.
But just to give you an example, everybody knows what
you should do if you catch on fire, stop, drop
and roll. And I don't know the exact status, Like
I've been lazily looking and I haven't found an exact statistic.
(17:07):
But as I've gone out and spoken, I'll usually ask
people to raise their hand in the audience if they've
ever used stop, drop and roll. And there might be
an audience or two or three hundred and maybe one
person will raise their hand, maybe two, maybe two people
will raise their hand. It is not a lot of people,
and we all know it, but we all know it.
(17:28):
And then I don't ask because I feel like I
don't want anyone to feel like they need to share
something they're not ready to share. I don't want anyone
to look at anyone else differently or anything. I don't
want to put anyone in a sensitive situation. But I
could ask how many of you have been sexually abused?
And I feel like we'd see at least a third
(17:48):
of the room raise their hand, And yet we really
don't talk about these issues. So this is that mindset
is very dangerous. For this reason, we need to be
having a lot of conversations. And then kind of continuing
on with your question, it is Unfortunately, it is the
norm that when a child goes missing, it typically is
(18:12):
the parents or someone very close to the family. It
is really more of the exception that it's a stranger.
And so as heartbreaking and as difficult as it is,
my parents were they it was not unreasonable for the
police to look at my parents. And since that time,
(18:35):
I mean, anytime my dad has ever spoken to a
family who has had a child kidnapped, he will always say,
just cooperate with the police. They are going to look
at you. You go in for whatever questioning, whatever lie
detector test that you need to go in for, so
that the focus can remain on finding your child and
(18:55):
bringing your child home. So that I mean, as difficult
and miserable as that is, that is kind of that
first line of questioning. And I mean at the time
when I was rescued, I remember just being flabbergasted that
anyone could think it was my family, that it could
be my parents or my brothers. I mean, that just
(19:17):
seems so ridiculous to me because my family had never
hurt me. My dad had never hurt me, my brothers
had never hurt me. I mean, they teased me like
we were normal siblings, but like they'd never abused me
or like threatened me or anything like that. So that
just seems so ridiculous to me when I got home,
(19:39):
and now as a parent myself, you know, when I
first got home, I thought, well, come on, you guys
were the lucky ones like you were together, You weren't
stuck on this mountainside with these monsters. Me I was
by myself. You did not have it as bad as
what I experienced. But now as a parent myself and
(20:01):
looking at my children, I mean, there just isn't anything
that I wouldn't do to protect my children or to
prevent them from being hurt or from going through what
I went through. I mean I would go through it
again in a heartbeat if it meant that my children
never had to go through it. And so now as
a parent myself, I have so much more compassion for
(20:23):
my own parents and what they went through while I
was gone. Is she out of prison now, Wanda? She is? Yeah?
Has she ever tried to reach out to you? No?
And I'm okay with never talking to her again. I
would imagine, yeah, I would never want to either.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
She had a history of abuse before that, so she's
obviously a dangerous person, very mentally ill. And I don't
even want to give her that excuse because I think
it's just so it was so incredibly evil what they did.
So you came home and you reconnected with your family,
(21:07):
did you know did you have any idea, like, had
you a sense that things were coming close? Or I
mean you had no access to the news or anything.
How did they finally how did they finally know where
you were?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Well, my so, my captor, Brian Mitchell, he would go
down into Salt Lake and when he'd come back, sometimes
he would bring newspapers or he even brought back a
missing flyer once of me, and he would say things like, Oh,
all of Salt Lake is looking for you, the whole
(21:44):
world is looking for you, but no one will ever
find you because I have you. And I would say
that just added to this sense of this feeling that
he was invincible, and this feeling that maybe I wouldn't escape,
(22:05):
maybe I wouldn't be rescued, because he just seemed to
get away with everything that he wanted. He could do anything,
and he was never getting caught, he was never getting stopped.
And so my sister had that moment where She's like,
I know who did it? She told my dad. My
(22:27):
dad told the police. The police really didn't think it
was this Emmanuel that was the name that Brian Mitchell
went by at the time, and they were stuck on
this other person that they thought this Richard Reesi, who
had done some work for my parents and he actually
ended up dying in prison. And the police were like, oh,
you know, the secret of Elizabeth's disappearance has has gone
(22:50):
to his grave with him. We'll never find her. But
my dad was insistent that you know, y Catherine says,
it's this other guy, like we need to look in
to him. And they were like, oh, we don't really
think so. My Dad's like, let me do, like, bring
in a sketch artist. Let me at least try to
tell you what he looks like. Let's just try. They
brought in a sketch artist. My dad had a sketch, like,
(23:13):
did a sketch of him, and the police were just like,
don't release this. You know, we'll we'll look into it,
we'll consider it. Well. My dad was good friends with
John Walsh at the time, from America's Most Wanted. He
called John up and was like, May Catherine thinks she
knows who it is. We had. We went down to
the police station, they did a sketch of him. We
(23:35):
have this sketch of him, and John was just like,
you have to go public with it, and you have
to follow absolutely every lead that you can find, never
give up. And actually it was John Walsh that ended
up releasing that sketch on Larry King Live. And when
that sketch was released and the name Emmanuel, one of
(23:57):
Brian Mitchell's family members actually saw it and called the
police and said, I think I know who you're looking for.
And that is what led to my rescue because then
they started looking for Brian Mitchell and people recognized him
when we eventually made it back to Utah and I.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Was rescued, and you made it back to Utah because
you had kind of figured out their language, their way
of communication, and their belief system, and their belief system
was this like false prophet, I hear from the Lord
and you were to me, this is so impressive at
your young age that you were able to use that
(24:37):
and kind of use psychology against him to say, you know,
this is you. You should go back to Utah. Had
you not gone back to Utah. Do you think you
would have been found?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I don't know. I don't know if I would have
been found, because towards the I mean the last month,
the last I don't know, five weeks that we were
in California, I was not allowed to go out into civilization,
(25:13):
the general population anymore. He was just keeping me hidden
up and up in the mountains there, and so I
think he was feeling more wary, even though I don't
think he knew that his sketch had been released. I
don't think he knew any of that. I just think
he was feeling more wary. Plus, he had also tried
(25:35):
to kidnap another young girl at that time, because he
had this whole plan that he was going to kidnap
seven young girls and I was just the first, and
he had actually had tended it and he had not
been successful. But I think it had kind of shooken
him a bit, and so he was just keeping me
out of sight. And so had we remained in California.
(25:56):
Do I think I would have been found if I
if I was found, I don't think it would have.
I think it would have been much later. I think
it would have been a much longer time period that
I was held captive for there.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Were and maybe and you don't know if you would
have lived through that, because you were you had had
some experiences where you were so close to starvation and dehydration,
and these experiences that you had where God just provided
in a moment when you felt like you were just
overwhelmed at the last moment of your ability to hang on,
(26:32):
and the rain was won. There was another time when
there had been no water and you woke up to
a full cup of water next to where you were sleeping,
which you said was just absolutely impossible. And I do
believe that God sustained to you and has a plan
for you. And your plan is to talk about this
and to encourage people, And the way you speak about
it is so impressive to me that you are able
(26:54):
to say we all we all go through different trauma.
You don't really discriminate against trauma, which I think is
amazing because I think you've been through one of the worst,
and yet you're so welcoming to everybody who feels as
though like I've gone through something really hard. You talked
about this with a friend and she said, but your
(27:14):
heart is so much harder than my heart.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
And you.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I love how you were like, No, everybody has to
go through things and we have to come back out
of those things. And you're you're just such a welcoming
leader of people who have gone through hard in life.
But you one of the things that you said, I
just want to get into really quickly. One of the
things that you said was that you didn't think that
(27:39):
you would ever be able to survive your parents breaking up,
because your family had been kind of that rock that
you the example, the people who gave you faith, the
rock that you were waiting to get back to, and
then you came back and they were the ones who
helped to build you back up. But your father called
you one morning, which also is just kind of interesting
(28:00):
timing because of what you'd been through in the wee
hours of the morning in your life to get a
call that was a pretty devastating call.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
What was that like? I mean when I first saw
his phone number pop up, I thought my mom was
in the hospital. I thought something had happened. I thought,
I mean, I would say any early morning phone called.
Now these days, I'm like, what happened? Like, who's in trouble?
Who is hurt? So I definitely had that thought in
(28:30):
my mind, and then I answered it, and I mean
it was just like word vomit. My dad couldn't get
the words out quick enough. And that's when he told
me that he and my mom are getting a divorce,
that he was gay, and none of these things. I mean, like,
you know, I'd seen my parents disagree, but then i'd
always turn around and you know, seeing them get past
(28:54):
their disagreements, holding hands. You know, I'd seen them kissing.
To me, they just seemed like a normal couple. You know,
you have your disagreements, you work through, and then you
move on. And so I didn't ever think that there
was really any real chance of them divorcing. And I
(29:18):
certainly certainly never had a clue that my dad was gay.
I mean, I remember I remember just thinking I'd misheard,
and I remember saying, wait, wait, can you say that again?
But I mean, I think that was such a like
he was so anxious about how the phone call was
(29:39):
gonna go. He just kept going, and I think he
was probably full of adrenaline at that time, probably really
scared of my reaction. And I just remember in that
moment being like, I'm not even sure how to respond,
but no matter what, he's still my dad and I
(30:02):
still love him. And that was really the gist of
the phone call. How old were you at that point?
I was. I mean that was about seven years ago,
so I was thirty one. I mean I just had
my last baby. My last baby was a month old.
I mean, yeah, I guess it was literally this time
seven years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That's a lot to think about, because you knew in
that moment that this was bigger than just your parents
splitting up. This was your dad is also going to
have to leave the church. And that seemed to be
a huge part of your life, and you went on
a mission for the church. You're the church is the
church is what's guided you it seems like forever. I
(30:46):
mean it certainly was a huge part of my life.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
And yeah, it felt like just like a bomb going off.
I mean, having all three of those things, you know,
my dad saying he's divorced and my mom my dad's
saying he was gay, my dad's saying he was leaving
the church. I was just like, oh my gosh, what
(31:09):
like my whole life, Like you've been the one that's like, okay,
like we need to go to church, Like oh you know,
it's Saturday. Let's you know what I signed us up
to go clean the church, to go prepare the chapel
for Sunday, like you know, like oh, it's the church's
fun run, or it's like the church's Memorial Day breakfast,
or like he was very much. I mean both my
(31:32):
parents were just very heavily involved, and they always stressed
the importance of faith my entire my entire childhood, my
my entire life. And so it was yeah, I just
it was a shock. But your family is still very close.
(31:53):
You know, our family has changed. I mean, how could
you not change? And holidays are different, birthdays are different,
and it's been an interesting navigation. Let's take a quick
commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You have been put through major trials and yet you
have taken them and turned them into something incredible. And
you go out and you speak and you encourage and
you are a light I mean, and some people will
say that they can see a light around people, and
I really do feel like you have that light of
the Lord shining through you. And you had to to
(32:39):
overcome this, but you still you continue to go out
and talk. You have a memoir coming out. I want
to talk to people about that. Tell us about your book,
and you have another movie coming out on Netflix, which
I am anxious to watch, and I want to tell
you that I am so impressed with your story. I mean,
as I'm listening to you talk, I'm getting chills because
I can just feel the power of your spirit.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
It is so strong.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
And I want my girls to know your story because
it is what we would say is some of the
lowest parts of life. And yet I am so impressed
with who you are even through that. So tell us
a little bit about the documentary and tell us about
the book.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Okay, so this is my new book and it's different.
I so this is my third book, and it's different
from my others because my first book really was the
story of what happened. My second book, I took the
questions that I was most asked, and then I went
(33:39):
out and I found other people that I really admired,
and I got their answers and tried to write a
book around these questions and the answers of other people.
So even if people didn't connect with me, they would
connect with someone else who I'd interviewed. And then this
last book Detours that is coming out on December sixteenth,
(34:01):
is really more about my healing journey and kind of
the rest stops or steps along the way. And I
called it Detours because I think there are so many
comparisons about life is a highway, or life is a journey,
or you know, like life is your like a path
through the world. There's so many comparisons like that, and
(34:23):
I was just thinking, we all have these moments in
our lives where we go through something and it seems
to throw that road off course and you just can't
imagine how you're going to get through it. So I
talk about these different rest stops along the way of
how I got through it. And I mean, if anything,
(34:46):
this book is meant to be a friend. It's meant
to be just a help. It's not meant to say, well,
you needed to do this, or if you do all
these things, you'll be better in six months, because everyone's
healing journey is going to be different and you need
to find what works for you. But it's but I'm
(35:06):
hoping that this book provides hope that everyone can heal
and that everyone can find their way forward. And you know,
probably the first step or the first rest stop along
the way is knowing that it's okay to grieve the
path that you feel lost to you. So, for example,
(35:27):
you know, with my parents' divorce, grieving the fact that
my family would never be the same, that the holidays
would never be the same, that to some extent, my
family would always feel incomplete because either my mom would
be missing or my dad would be missing. And that
was something that was very sad to me. I mean,
(35:49):
my parents had been my foundation my whole life, and
if I ever felt like I wasn't strong enough or
if I was ever struggling, they were the first people
I called, and so just realizing that it was going
to be different, that was something that was very sad.
And even to this day, you know, when there are
special events, there's still an element of sadness because it's
(36:15):
just different. And there have absolutely been times where I'm like,
this all would have just been easier if they had
never divorced, or this would just be easier if they
were still together, But I also recognized that that wouldn't
have been healthy for either one of them. They're split
was something that needed to happen, but it doesn't make
(36:36):
it as their child. It doesn't make it any easier
for me.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I love the fact that you say life is like
a journey on a road, and we have these detours.
Your detours are major detours, and yet we all have them.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
You are so right.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
It's something that we sometimes struggle to look at. I
remember sitting in a Bible study with a group of women,
and we were young, and we were talking about the
fact that this would happen, and the Bible tells us
this will happen. And there were some in the group
who said, I don't want it to ever happen to me,
and I don't want to hear that. And I remember
(37:13):
at the time I had just lost a baby and
I thought, wow, I didn't want it to happen to me.
They're like, you don't get you don't get a choice.
And I think that is the strong message of this book.
And I would love to see it in book clubs.
I would love to see it in schools because what
you said about having never learned about rape, having never
learned about these things, I don't think many people want
(37:35):
to hear the ugly and yet we will go through
it without a guide. And this book is preparing you
or helping you through, whether you have gone through something
hard or not.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
The way the book talks to you, it's written to
talk to you as well.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
That's what I kind of love about it is that
I feel like we're having a conversation. As I'm reading
the book, You're like, are you still with me?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
You know?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And that was so creative and so I mean enticing,
because we do all go through heart. There's no avoiding heart.
You've been through some of the most hard and yet
you're walking alongside of all of us, just like a
character right out of the Bible, just like an esther,
which is so impressied. I mean, I see his footsteps
(38:18):
alongside you your entire journey, and that's so inspiring for
me and for everybody else who is looking to say,
who is leading me?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And that's the Lord. I mean. We've all only experienced
our own worst trauma. We've all only experienced our own
worst sadness, and each one of us knows how bad
that feels. And no matter what we've experienced, we can
feel compassion, we can feel empathy, we can feel understanding
(38:48):
for the people around us, but we will never feel
what they have felt. We will never feel exactly their emotions,
and so I think it is so important to have
passionate and understanding and grace for everyone around us, because
I've never met someone who hasn't had a bad day.
(39:09):
I've never met someone who hasn't gone through something. And
you know, maybe as you're younger, maybe it's just the
heartache of a breakup, or maybe it's just the disappointment
of doing poorly on a test. I mean, it doesn't
always have to be big, huge, traumatic things, but we've
all felt pain and sometimes we think we can never
(39:30):
come back from it. And as much as I would
love to walk beside I mean physically walk beside everybody,
I mean I am just one person and I don't
know everything. I mean, I'm still trying to figure out
life and how to be the best person that I
can be. And so I feel like this book really
(39:53):
just tries to help, just tries to give what I've learned. Yeah,
it's great, It's absolutely great.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It would be a great Christmas present for people who
have anybody in their life that has gone through trauma.
But honestly, it is just a friend.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
It is a guide.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
It's for anybody who loves reading and loves to hear
about life, and you take us on a lot of detours,
but it is amazing, So it's detours and tell us
where people can get it.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
So you can get it from Elizabethsmart dot com. You
can order it directly from my website. You can order
it off of Amazon. Those are both great places to
order it.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Thank you so much, Elizabeth Smart. You are an amazing woman.
I am so impressed with you. I will never forget
your story and hearing it. But you hear the story
and you never Oftentimes when this happens, you don't get
to see the follow up and you are amazing. So
thank you for what you do every day.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Thank you for having me absolutely and thank you all
for joining us on the Tutor Dixon podcast.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
As you know for this episode and others.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
You can get it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can always
watch it on Rumble or YouTube at Tutor Dixon. Join
us next time and have a blessed day.
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. You probably all remember
the story of Elizabeth Smart. You remember the story of
her being taken from her bed in the middle of
the night in two thousand and two. I think we
were all stuck by the TVs, hoping that this beautiful
little girl would be returned home, and yet believing that
(00:24):
nothing could possibly be, that you couldn't possibly see her
again in this world. And yet we did, And now
I get the pleasure of speaking with this incredible survivor today.
Elizabeth Smart, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Absolutely Like I said, we all watched your story, of course,
and you have spoken out. I've been so impressed with
the way that you have spoken out since the abduction
and the fact that you work so hard for people
who have experienced sexual abuse or abduction and and any
type of exploitation. Like I said, you truly are an
(01:04):
inspiration to us.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh, thank you very much. I mean, I never imagined
this would be my life. I obviously never imagined I
was kidnapped either, But looking back, I'm not sorry that
it happened to me because it's given me so much
purpose and passion in my life. That I would like
to think I would have had, but truthfully, I don't
(01:29):
think I would have had otherwise.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
There was always something special about you know, as I
was watching your Amazon documentary, I was watching through and
you talk about your experience, and obviously we see kind
of a reenactment of what happened with your abductors and
your kidnappers, and something struck me in that, and that
(01:56):
is the strength of your faith at fourteen. I told
you before we got on this podcast, my middle daughter
is fourteen. So I have sixteen, fourteen and two twelve
year old daughters and I so of course, as I
watched this and read your book, I think of my
girls and I think about what they would go through
and how they act today. And you were so strong
(02:19):
at that age, and it struck me as I was
watching your documentary that you were saying, you know, people
would ask me why I wouldn't have run, and it
seemed like that was kind of a theme throughout the
entire retelling of the story. Is almost that you were
trying to say, you know, you have to understand what
it's like. I looked at that story and I was like, what,
(02:42):
what intelligence and calm for you? To do what you
did and be looking for that that moment when you
could escape, and knowing that your family was still there,
like your family seemed to be a strong foundation for
you throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Absolutely, my family was the one thing I felt like
I could rely on because I didn't you know, sexual violence, abuse, rape,
it was not talked about when I was a kid,
at least not in any of the conversations I ever had,
none of the lessons I ever listened to growing up.
(03:21):
It was just something that was not talked about, and
there was very much a sense of shame around it,
you know, when you like went to maturation or when
you first learned what sex was in school, Nobody talked
about the difference between enthusiastic consent versus abuse versus rape,
(03:45):
and so in my mind, it was all very much
the same thing. And I so when I would think
about the possibility of being rescued, I didn't know how
people would respond. I didn't know if I would be
accepted back into polite society, or if I would be
(04:07):
kind of cast out or just be on the outside,
kind of like a pariah. And yeah, I just didn't
know how I was going to be treated. But the
one thing that I really believed and felt and knew
in my heart was that my family would accept me.
And ultimately I felt like if nobody else accepted me
but my family did, that would be worth surviving for.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
There's a moment in the documentary where you are out
so that people know when they took you. He took
you in the middle of the night. He took you
from your house, but you weren't far from your house.
You were out in the woods. They were camping. They
kept you out there camping. There was a one night
when you were outside and you heard people yelling your name.
(04:50):
I mean, it was that like was that like, oh gosh,
they're still looking.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Like mileage wise, I wasn't that far. I was less
than four miles. I think I was about three and
a half mile from my home, but it was incredibly
difficult to get to. I mean I hiked back there
recently with my brother and sister in law And like
as an adult now, who I would say, not that
(05:14):
I was in bad shape back then. I was a kid.
I ran around all the time, but like someone who's
like run marathons now and works out every day. It
was a struggle to get back there. It's very, very
difficult to get back there. So it wasn't just like
a little walk in the park. But yes, I and
at the time, I actually I think I was so
pumped full of adrenaline and fear I didn't realize exactly
(05:39):
how far or near I was in correlation to my
actual home. And I remember hearing my uncle's voice or
what I thought was my uncle's voice, and I remember
just being hopeful that I would be found. I remember
being scared that he would come into camp and then
(06:02):
he would be killed because my captor was right there
and he was pulling out his knife and he was like,
do you recognize this knife? And I mean, of course
I recognized it, how to held to my throat and
then he turned to me and he was like, if
you yell back, if anyone enters this campsite, they'll be
killed and it'll be your fault because you called out.
(06:25):
And so as now as an adult looking back, I
have so much compassion for myself because I was a child.
Of course I didn't have like the logic or the
I don't know the I don't know many adults that
would be able to yell out in that situation though, either.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I mean, even at this point in my life, I
think I'm so protective of the people that I love
that I would rather see myself hurt than watch someone
hurt someone I love.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Absolutely, I feel the same way I felt that as
a kid. I felt like I had to protect my family.
I felt like I had to protect my uncle. I
felt like I had to protect anyone who might possibly
find the camp because I didn't want to be responsible
for anyone's death.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And that's so much on a young child. And I
think that's what people need to remember, is that you
were fourteen years old your faith. That to me, was
what struck me so Hardy. There's a point when you
talk about it, it was Thanksgiving. You were starving most
of the time. I mean, this was such a madman.
There's no food, there was no water. He would leave
(07:37):
the camp and leave you with his wife, who was
sounds like not only horrible to you, but had been
horrible her whole life.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So these were genuinely.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Nasty, horrible devil, I mean, evil demon people that had
taken you. And you talk about him coming back and saying, oh,
there's a Thanksgiving dinner and we can go get this
Thanksgiving dinner. And I was so impressed because we are
told in the Bible to be thankful in all things,
(08:10):
and I oftentimes think, you know, even through the hardest times,
like look at the good, look at the good that
God has provided to me. But I am an adult,
and I think about what would my kids have I
set my kids up for if there is some tragic
situation that they are able to see God and what
God has given.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Them through that.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
And you did, I mean, you said that night, just
like every Thanksgiving, I went through all the things that
I'm thankful for. And then I did that every night
between then and Christmas and went through all the things
you were thankful for. That was the most mature attitude
and the most the strongest foundation in faith that I
(08:52):
could I've ever seen in modern day.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I was so impressed. Well, initially, when I was first kidnapped,
I remember thinking, I mean I remember thinking that first
day that this was the worst, This was rock bottom.
Nothing could be worse than what I was experiencing in
that moment. But then day two came and I was
forced to go naked all day, and that seemed worse.
(09:15):
And I remember that day thinking this is the worst.
Nothing could possibly be worse than this. And then the
next day came and he was like, you need to
learn how to properly make love to your husband, so
you're gonna watch Wanda and I have sex, and then
you're going to have to perform. And that seemed like
the absolute worst. And it was just like continually hitting
(09:38):
these new lows of horribleness, of nightmares, and every time
that this new low would happen, I mean, it was
just like a new level of devastation, and it was
just I was just sinking deeper and deeper and deeper
into just hopelessness. And I just remember feeling like I
(10:02):
can't give up. I am still thirty plus years younger
than them. I mean, just logically I will outlive them.
I mean, should they not kill me, should I you know,
should I not starve to death, should the elements not
take me out? I should still outlive them. And if
(10:22):
I outlive them, I would like to make it back home.
But I will never make it back home if I
just keep thinking that this is the worst. So kind
of from early on, any situation I found myself and
I would try to think of things that would make
that situation worse, because then I could be grateful that
(10:45):
it wasn't that bad. I could be grateful for whatever
the situation was, and that God helped me.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It's such a lesson, no matter what I mean, no
matter what hardship you're going through, is to constantly look
toward what good can come, what good can come, and
in that idea that you can be you could be
back with your family one day. There had to have
been I mean, you were gone for nine months, so
there had to have been a point when you started
(11:14):
to go, I don't know. I don't know if I
can ever if I can ever get back there, and
what does life look like with them? There were moments
where you really didn't know if you'd live through the night.
There's one I want to bring up. You're in California
and it's a drought. It seems like there's no water.
You were constantly searching for water. You didn't have enough
(11:36):
to drink it. It was horrible, and he leaves, He
gets put in prison or in jail, I guess for
for a week, and you and Wanda are there and
you say that you thought that might be the end,
that you that was the one time when you said
maybe I'm not. I've been looking so forward to seeing
my family again, but I'm so thirsty and I'm so hungry,
(11:57):
this might not happen. And then there's a rain, and
you gave that glory to God in that moment.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I remember. I mean, I've been asked so many times
over the years in that situation, couldn't you have just
run away? Wasn't that like the perfect situation to run away?
But I was so dehydrated and just so weak from
not eating that I remember standing up and just feeling
like I was going to pass out. I mean, both
(12:26):
Wanda Barzi and I were just lying on the ground
because we just did not have the energy to stand
up and move around. And I absolutely remember just feeling
like this is the end. I mean, I can't believe
I have survived this long. I guess about that point
it was, it was about eight months. I had survived
(12:47):
eight months only to die of starvation and dehydration. I
remember just almost laughing about it because it just seemed
the irony of it just just seems so pathetic. And
I remember then it did start raining, and it did
(13:09):
absolutely seem like a gift from God because I mean,
we would I think we would have died without it.
It seemed like an answer to blessing, to answer to prayer.
And I mean I remember running outside and we stretched
tarps to catch as much water as we possibly could,
and I remember, I mean just the water tasting so good,
(13:34):
and then even the next couple of days, we had
been able to pour the water into these gallon containers.
But I also remember eventually seeing what looked like, I mean,
things looked like they were growing in the water. But
even then, I mean, I was just grateful for something
to drink. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue
(13:56):
next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. It's such a.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Stark difference, obviously from how you grew up. You had
a beautiful home, a beautiful, strong family. That's to me,
that's a worst nightmare scenario for your family, I mean
for you, but also the trauma that your entire family
goes through. Your sister was in bed with you, and
there's a lot of pressure on her during this time
(14:23):
that you're gone, like who was it?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Can you tell us?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
And it was a god moment that she remembered too,
and suddenly that name came back to her. But I
think about your parents from the outside as we were
watching this, and I know many people have told you
this from the outside, you see the media narrative start
to take hold. It's like, oh, the father must be involved,
(14:47):
there must be something weird happening. It's just such a
bizarre scenario that someone would come into your house and
take you out of your bed. You know, it's so hard,
and there was so little evidence of what happened. It
was so hard for the country to wrap their minds around.
And I think the reason it was so hard was
because none of us want that to ever happen, so
(15:08):
it couldn't happen. It's easier to say it couldn't happen
then to admit that it did happen. What was that
like coming back home? They were obviously, I mean, as parents,
they must have felt so many emotions of failure and
shame and just brokenness and you kind of have to
(15:29):
rebuild each other. But you're fourteen or fifteen when you
got home, right.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, I was fifteen when I got home. What
was that like? Well, there's so many things you just
said that I want to respond to. I mean, number one,
you kind of describe this mindset that this was so
terrible you don't want to think that it can happen
to you. And I actually think that is a very
dangerous mindset because it stops us from having conversations that
(15:56):
are important to have. I mean, the national average that
we know of that our case is reported, it's about
one in five women are sexually abused. In Utah, where
I live, it's even worse. It's about one in three
women are sexually abused in their lifetime, and honestly, I
think it's much higher in both the national average and Utah.
(16:18):
These are just the cases that are reported, because we
know so many don't go reported, and these are very
important conversations to be had. I mean, this is very
important safety information to be had. We sorry not to
go down a rabbit hole, but just to give an
as so, no, I think this is important.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
This is what, like I said, I do think that
we like to say it's impossible because we don't want
it to have to happen to us, and then we
are unprepared.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Exactly, And we have so much safety education, which I
think is great. I'm a fan of all safety education.
But just to give you an example, everybody knows what
you should do if you catch on fire, stop, drop
and roll. And I don't know the exact status, Like
I've been lazily looking and I haven't found an exact statistic.
(17:07):
But as I've gone out and spoken, I'll usually ask
people to raise their hand in the audience if they've
ever used stop, drop and roll. And there might be
an audience or two or three hundred and maybe one
person will raise their hand, maybe two, maybe two people
will raise their hand. It is not a lot of people,
and we all know it, but we all know it.
(17:28):
And then I don't ask because I feel like I
don't want anyone to feel like they need to share
something they're not ready to share. I don't want anyone
to look at anyone else differently or anything. I don't
want to put anyone in a sensitive situation. But I
could ask how many of you have been sexually abused?
And I feel like we'd see at least a third
(17:48):
of the room raise their hand, And yet we really
don't talk about these issues. So this is that mindset
is very dangerous. For this reason, we need to be
having a lot of conversations. And then kind of continuing
on with your question, it is Unfortunately, it is the
norm that when a child goes missing, it typically is
(18:12):
the parents or someone very close to the family. It
is really more of the exception that it's a stranger.
And so as heartbreaking and as difficult as it is,
my parents were they it was not unreasonable for the
police to look at my parents. And since that time,
(18:35):
I mean, anytime my dad has ever spoken to a
family who has had a child kidnapped, he will always say,
just cooperate with the police. They are going to look
at you. You go in for whatever questioning, whatever lie
detector test that you need to go in for, so
that the focus can remain on finding your child and
(18:55):
bringing your child home. So that I mean, as difficult
and miserable as that is, that is kind of that
first line of questioning. And I mean at the time
when I was rescued, I remember just being flabbergasted that
anyone could think it was my family, that it could
be my parents or my brothers. I mean, that just
(19:17):
seems so ridiculous to me because my family had never
hurt me. My dad had never hurt me, my brothers
had never hurt me. I mean, they teased me like
we were normal siblings, but like they'd never abused me
or like threatened me or anything like that. So that
just seems so ridiculous to me when I got home,
(19:39):
and now as a parent myself, you know, when I
first got home, I thought, well, come on, you guys
were the lucky ones like you were together, You weren't
stuck on this mountainside with these monsters. Me I was
by myself. You did not have it as bad as
what I experienced. But now as a parent myself and
(20:01):
looking at my children, I mean, there just isn't anything
that I wouldn't do to protect my children or to
prevent them from being hurt or from going through what
I went through. I mean I would go through it
again in a heartbeat if it meant that my children
never had to go through it. And so now as
a parent myself, I have so much more compassion for
(20:23):
my own parents and what they went through while I
was gone. Is she out of prison now, Wanda? She is? Yeah?
Has she ever tried to reach out to you? No?
And I'm okay with never talking to her again. I
would imagine, yeah, I would never want to either.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
She had a history of abuse before that, so she's
obviously a dangerous person, very mentally ill. And I don't
even want to give her that excuse because I think
it's just so it was so incredibly evil what they did.
So you came home and you reconnected with your family,
(21:07):
did you know did you have any idea, like, had
you a sense that things were coming close? Or I
mean you had no access to the news or anything.
How did they finally how did they finally know where
you were?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Well, my so, my captor, Brian Mitchell, he would go
down into Salt Lake and when he'd come back, sometimes
he would bring newspapers or he even brought back a
missing flyer once of me, and he would say things like, Oh,
all of Salt Lake is looking for you, the whole
(21:44):
world is looking for you, but no one will ever
find you because I have you. And I would say
that just added to this sense of this feeling that
he was invincible, and this feeling that maybe I wouldn't escape,
(22:05):
maybe I wouldn't be rescued, because he just seemed to
get away with everything that he wanted. He could do anything,
and he was never getting caught, he was never getting stopped.
And so my sister had that moment where She's like,
I know who did it? She told my dad. My
(22:27):
dad told the police. The police really didn't think it
was this Emmanuel that was the name that Brian Mitchell
went by at the time, and they were stuck on
this other person that they thought this Richard Reesi, who
had done some work for my parents and he actually
ended up dying in prison. And the police were like, oh,
you know, the secret of Elizabeth's disappearance has has gone
(22:50):
to his grave with him. We'll never find her. But
my dad was insistent that you know, y Catherine says,
it's this other guy, like we need to look in
to him. And they were like, oh, we don't really
think so. My Dad's like, let me do, like, bring
in a sketch artist. Let me at least try to
tell you what he looks like. Let's just try. They
brought in a sketch artist. My dad had a sketch, like,
(23:13):
did a sketch of him, and the police were just like,
don't release this. You know, we'll we'll look into it,
we'll consider it. Well. My dad was good friends with
John Walsh at the time, from America's Most Wanted. He
called John up and was like, May Catherine thinks she
knows who it is. We had. We went down to
the police station, they did a sketch of him. We
(23:35):
have this sketch of him, and John was just like,
you have to go public with it, and you have
to follow absolutely every lead that you can find, never
give up. And actually it was John Walsh that ended
up releasing that sketch on Larry King Live. And when
that sketch was released and the name Emmanuel, one of
(23:57):
Brian Mitchell's family members actually saw it and called the
police and said, I think I know who you're looking for.
And that is what led to my rescue because then
they started looking for Brian Mitchell and people recognized him
when we eventually made it back to Utah and I.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Was rescued, and you made it back to Utah because
you had kind of figured out their language, their way
of communication, and their belief system, and their belief system
was this like false prophet, I hear from the Lord
and you were to me, this is so impressive at
your young age that you were able to use that
(24:37):
and kind of use psychology against him to say, you know,
this is you. You should go back to Utah. Had
you not gone back to Utah. Do you think you
would have been found?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I don't know. I don't know if I would have
been found, because towards the I mean the last month,
the last I don't know, five weeks that we were
in California, I was not allowed to go out into civilization,
(25:13):
the general population anymore. He was just keeping me hidden
up and up in the mountains there, and so I
think he was feeling more wary, even though I don't
think he knew that his sketch had been released. I
don't think he knew any of that. I just think
he was feeling more wary. Plus, he had also tried
(25:35):
to kidnap another young girl at that time, because he
had this whole plan that he was going to kidnap
seven young girls and I was just the first, and
he had actually had tended it and he had not
been successful. But I think it had kind of shooken
him a bit, and so he was just keeping me
out of sight. And so had we remained in California.
(25:56):
Do I think I would have been found if I
if I was found, I don't think it would have.
I think it would have been much later. I think
it would have been a much longer time period that
I was held captive for there.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Were and maybe and you don't know if you would
have lived through that, because you were you had had
some experiences where you were so close to starvation and dehydration,
and these experiences that you had where God just provided
in a moment when you felt like you were just
overwhelmed at the last moment of your ability to hang on,
(26:32):
and the rain was won. There was another time when
there had been no water and you woke up to
a full cup of water next to where you were sleeping,
which you said was just absolutely impossible. And I do
believe that God sustained to you and has a plan
for you. And your plan is to talk about this
and to encourage people, And the way you speak about
it is so impressive to me that you are able
(26:54):
to say we all we all go through different trauma.
You don't really discriminate against trauma, which I think is
amazing because I think you've been through one of the worst,
and yet you're so welcoming to everybody who feels as
though like I've gone through something really hard. You talked
about this with a friend and she said, but your
(27:14):
heart is so much harder than my heart.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
And you.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I love how you were like, No, everybody has to
go through things and we have to come back out
of those things. And you're you're just such a welcoming
leader of people who have gone through hard in life.
But you one of the things that you said, I
just want to get into really quickly. One of the
things that you said was that you didn't think that
(27:39):
you would ever be able to survive your parents breaking up,
because your family had been kind of that rock that
you the example, the people who gave you faith, the
rock that you were waiting to get back to, and
then you came back and they were the ones who
helped to build you back up. But your father called
you one morning, which also is just kind of interesting
(28:00):
timing because of what you'd been through in the wee
hours of the morning in your life to get a
call that was a pretty devastating call.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
What was that like? I mean when I first saw
his phone number pop up, I thought my mom was
in the hospital. I thought something had happened. I thought,
I mean, I would say any early morning phone called.
Now these days, I'm like, what happened? Like, who's in trouble?
Who is hurt? So I definitely had that thought in
(28:30):
my mind, and then I answered it, and I mean
it was just like word vomit. My dad couldn't get
the words out quick enough. And that's when he told
me that he and my mom are getting a divorce,
that he was gay, and none of these things. I mean, like,
you know, I'd seen my parents disagree, but then i'd
always turn around and you know, seeing them get past
(28:54):
their disagreements, holding hands. You know, I'd seen them kissing.
To me, they just seemed like a normal couple. You know,
you have your disagreements, you work through, and then you
move on. And so I didn't ever think that there
was really any real chance of them divorcing. And I
(29:18):
certainly certainly never had a clue that my dad was gay.
I mean, I remember I remember just thinking I'd misheard,
and I remember saying, wait, wait, can you say that again?
But I mean, I think that was such a like
he was so anxious about how the phone call was
(29:39):
gonna go. He just kept going, and I think he
was probably full of adrenaline at that time, probably really
scared of my reaction. And I just remember in that
moment being like, I'm not even sure how to respond,
but no matter what, he's still my dad and I
(30:02):
still love him. And that was really the gist of
the phone call. How old were you at that point?
I was. I mean that was about seven years ago,
so I was thirty one. I mean I just had
my last baby. My last baby was a month old.
I mean, yeah, I guess it was literally this time
seven years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That's a lot to think about, because you knew in
that moment that this was bigger than just your parents
splitting up. This was your dad is also going to
have to leave the church. And that seemed to be
a huge part of your life, and you went on
a mission for the church. You're the church is the
church is what's guided you it seems like forever. I
(30:46):
mean it certainly was a huge part of my life.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
And yeah, it felt like just like a bomb going off.
I mean, having all three of those things, you know,
my dad saying he's divorced and my mom my dad's
saying he was gay, my dad's saying he was leaving
the church. I was just like, oh my gosh, what
(31:09):
like my whole life, Like you've been the one that's like, okay,
like we need to go to church, Like oh you know,
it's Saturday. Let's you know what I signed us up
to go clean the church, to go prepare the chapel
for Sunday, like you know, like oh, it's the church's
fun run, or it's like the church's Memorial Day breakfast,
or like he was very much. I mean both my
(31:32):
parents were just very heavily involved, and they always stressed
the importance of faith my entire my entire childhood, my
my entire life. And so it was yeah, I just
it was a shock. But your family is still very close.
(31:53):
You know, our family has changed. I mean, how could
you not change? And holidays are different, birthdays are different,
and it's been an interesting navigation. Let's take a quick
commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You have been put through major trials and yet you
have taken them and turned them into something incredible. And
you go out and you speak and you encourage and
you are a light I mean, and some people will
say that they can see a light around people, and
I really do feel like you have that light of
the Lord shining through you. And you had to to
(32:39):
overcome this, but you still you continue to go out
and talk. You have a memoir coming out. I want
to talk to people about that. Tell us about your book,
and you have another movie coming out on Netflix, which
I am anxious to watch, and I want to tell
you that I am so impressed with your story. I mean,
as I'm listening to you talk, I'm getting chills because
I can just feel the power of your spirit.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
It is so strong.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
And I want my girls to know your story because
it is what we would say is some of the
lowest parts of life. And yet I am so impressed
with who you are even through that. So tell us
a little bit about the documentary and tell us about
the book.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Okay, so this is my new book and it's different.
I so this is my third book, and it's different
from my others because my first book really was the
story of what happened. My second book, I took the
questions that I was most asked, and then I went
(33:39):
out and I found other people that I really admired,
and I got their answers and tried to write a
book around these questions and the answers of other people.
So even if people didn't connect with me, they would
connect with someone else who I'd interviewed. And then this
last book Detours that is coming out on December sixteenth,
(34:01):
is really more about my healing journey and kind of
the rest stops or steps along the way. And I
called it Detours because I think there are so many
comparisons about life is a highway, or life is a journey,
or you know, like life is your like a path
through the world. There's so many comparisons like that, and
(34:23):
I was just thinking, we all have these moments in
our lives where we go through something and it seems
to throw that road off course and you just can't
imagine how you're going to get through it. So I
talk about these different rest stops along the way of
how I got through it. And I mean, if anything,
(34:46):
this book is meant to be a friend. It's meant
to be just a help. It's not meant to say, well,
you needed to do this, or if you do all
these things, you'll be better in six months, because everyone's
healing journey is going to be different and you need
to find what works for you. But it's but I'm
(35:06):
hoping that this book provides hope that everyone can heal
and that everyone can find their way forward. And you know,
probably the first step or the first rest stop along
the way is knowing that it's okay to grieve the
path that you feel lost to you. So, for example,
(35:27):
you know, with my parents' divorce, grieving the fact that
my family would never be the same, that the holidays
would never be the same, that to some extent, my
family would always feel incomplete because either my mom would
be missing or my dad would be missing. And that
was something that was very sad to me. I mean,
(35:49):
my parents had been my foundation my whole life, and
if I ever felt like I wasn't strong enough or
if I was ever struggling, they were the first people
I called, and so just realizing that it was going
to be different, that was something that was very sad.
And even to this day, you know, when there are
special events, there's still an element of sadness because it's
(36:15):
just different. And there have absolutely been times where I'm like,
this all would have just been easier if they had
never divorced, or this would just be easier if they
were still together, But I also recognized that that wouldn't
have been healthy for either one of them. They're split
was something that needed to happen, but it doesn't make
(36:36):
it as their child. It doesn't make it any easier
for me.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I love the fact that you say life is like
a journey on a road, and we have these detours.
Your detours are major detours, and yet we all have them.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
You are so right.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
It's something that we sometimes struggle to look at. I
remember sitting in a Bible study with a group of women,
and we were young, and we were talking about the
fact that this would happen, and the Bible tells us
this will happen. And there were some in the group
who said, I don't want it to ever happen to me,
and I don't want to hear that. And I remember
(37:13):
at the time I had just lost a baby and
I thought, wow, I didn't want it to happen to me.
They're like, you don't get you don't get a choice.
And I think that is the strong message of this book.
And I would love to see it in book clubs.
I would love to see it in schools because what
you said about having never learned about rape, having never
learned about these things, I don't think many people want
(37:35):
to hear the ugly and yet we will go through
it without a guide. And this book is preparing you
or helping you through, whether you have gone through something
hard or not.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
The way the book talks to you, it's written to
talk to you as well.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
That's what I kind of love about it is that
I feel like we're having a conversation. As I'm reading
the book, You're like, are you still with me?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
You know?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And that was so creative and so I mean enticing,
because we do all go through heart. There's no avoiding heart.
You've been through some of the most hard and yet
you're walking alongside of all of us, just like a
character right out of the Bible, just like an esther,
which is so impressied. I mean, I see his footsteps
(38:18):
alongside you your entire journey, and that's so inspiring for
me and for everybody else who is looking to say,
who is leading me?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And that's the Lord. I mean. We've all only experienced
our own worst trauma. We've all only experienced our own
worst sadness, and each one of us knows how bad
that feels. And no matter what we've experienced, we can
feel compassion, we can feel empathy, we can feel understanding
(38:48):
for the people around us, but we will never feel
what they have felt. We will never feel exactly their emotions,
and so I think it is so important to have
passionate and understanding and grace for everyone around us, because
I've never met someone who hasn't had a bad day.
(39:09):
I've never met someone who hasn't gone through something. And
you know, maybe as you're younger, maybe it's just the
heartache of a breakup, or maybe it's just the disappointment
of doing poorly on a test. I mean, it doesn't
always have to be big, huge, traumatic things, but we've
all felt pain and sometimes we think we can never
(39:30):
come back from it. And as much as I would
love to walk beside I mean physically walk beside everybody,
I mean I am just one person and I don't
know everything. I mean, I'm still trying to figure out
life and how to be the best person that I
can be. And so I feel like this book really
(39:53):
just tries to help, just tries to give what I've learned. Yeah,
it's great, It's absolutely great.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It would be a great Christmas present for people who
have anybody in their life that has gone through trauma.
But honestly, it is just a friend.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
It is a guide.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
It's for anybody who loves reading and loves to hear
about life, and you take us on a lot of detours,
but it is amazing, So it's detours and tell us
where people can get it.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
So you can get it from Elizabethsmart dot com. You
can order it directly from my website. You can order
it off of Amazon. Those are both great places to
order it.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Thank you so much, Elizabeth Smart. You are an amazing woman.
I am so impressed with you. I will never forget
your story and hearing it. But you hear the story
and you never Oftentimes when this happens, you don't get
to see the follow up and you are amazing. So
thank you for what you do every day.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Thank you for having me absolutely and thank you all
for joining us on the Tutor Dixon podcast.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
As you know for this episode and others.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
You can get it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can always
watch it on Rumble or YouTube at Tutor Dixon. Join
us next time and have a blessed day.
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