March 14, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, Tudor and health expert Max Lugavere discuss the current state of health in America, focusing on the over-prescription of antidepressants, the impact of ultra-processed foods on mental and physical health, and the importance of informed consumer choices. They explore the role of nutrition in mental health, the dangers of marketing unhealthy foods to children, and practical tips for improving health and energy levels. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network. For more visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
Learn more about Max and his health tips HERE
#health #nutrition #antidepressants #mentalhealth #ultraprocessedfoods #supplements #childrenshealth #longevity #diet #wellness
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As you
have all heard, we've been talking a lot about health lately.
We've been talking a lot about.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
People changing over the way they're cooking food.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Even you've probably seen some stuff with steak and shake
and the fact that they change their fries over to
tallow fat and all of this that's going on, and
we all are hoping that this changes the health outcomes
of Americans because we are, even though we have this
expanse of I guess some people call it a healthcare
system or a sick care system, we are very sick
(00:33):
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Speaker 2 (01:45):
So we have Max Lugavier with us here today.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
He is a longevity expert, health and science journalist, and
the author of the New York Times best selling Genius
book series. So it's Genius Kitchen, Genius Foods, Genius Life,
and we're hope he's a genius so he can tell
us all about how to be healthier.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Max, welcome, thank.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You so much for having me as an honor.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Absolutely, so I've been like scrolling through your stuff and
going through your Twitter account and everything, and there's just
there is so much. We can't even get to it
in the time that we have, but there's so much
going on. One of the things that is kind of
near and dear to my heart is the fact that
RFK Junior came out and said that he was going
to look at some of these antidepressants and anti anxiety
(02:27):
meds and people went crazy about it, which is I
think kind of twofold. There's a strong addiction to these medications.
People are very upset about letting it go, but not
even just letting it go, researching what it's actually doing
is scary to people.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Why is that happening?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, I mean it's a great place to start the conversation.
I think nuance needs to be brought to the conversation.
Of course, everybody today is so polarized and so inflamed
about so many different topics, right, But with regards to
the anti depressant issue, we have an over prescription problem
in this country. Which isn't to say that we also
(03:06):
have an access to medication issue in this country as well,
but these kinds of drugs now are being prescribed almost
as if from a pez dispenser, which you know, I
might be revealing my age.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I don't know if those things still exist, but.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
No, they do. You're safe, they do, Okay, I'm saying, cool.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Yeah, it's a it's a huge problem. I mean today,
many people I think last I checked, in general, one
in ten people are on some kind of antidepressant drug,
but that proportion shoots up to one in four for
you know, certain demographics, for example, women over forty, and
you know, we have to ask ourselves, what is the
root cause of the malaise that so many people seem
(03:47):
to be feeling.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Is it due to.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
A SSRI deficiency? I don't think so that would be unusual.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Well, I so here's a question for you, because I
believe it's like, oh, we've figured out that this can
help this and this and this, and we'll just prescribe
it to you without even telling you what it does.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Because like women hit.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
That age period between forty and fifty, and let me
tell you, doctors come to you and they're like, an
antidepressant can help you with all of the things that
your body is going to go through without telling you
what an antidepressant is going to do to your body,
even though you're not depressed.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
MM. Hmm, yeah. I mean so many people.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
We lack appropriate informed consent, yes, today with regards to
many things. I mean, whether it's the food supply that
we've inherited or these pharmaceutical drugs. I mean I saw
this in my own family. The reason why I do
what I do is that my mother was very sick
for many, many years, and she had dementia, like an
early onset form of dementia called Louis body dementia, and
(04:50):
then she passed due to cancer, and by the end
of her life she was she was a perfect illustration
of what is known as hyper polypharmacies. So somebody who's
on over ten prescription drugs by the end of her life,
and there's no physician on earth that fully understands how
these different drugs are interacting with one another in an
(05:10):
increasingly frail system. And one of the drugs that my
mom was on, actually she had been on it for years,
was an SSRI drug because at the onset of her
cognitive decline, her psychiatrist thought that the symptoms that she
was exhibiting were due to depression. Now, severe forms of
depression can actually mimic a type of dementia known as
(05:33):
pseudo dementia, but of course we realized down the road
that this was not due to depression. My mom actually
had a serious neuro cognitive condition.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
But what is not.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Usually disclosed is that these drugs are very difficult to
come off of, and they also coincide with not side effects,
but effects that our secondary to maybe whatever it is
that they're trying to treat. Many people lose libido, they
gain weight, and often the root cause of depression is
(06:08):
again not due to SSRI deficiency, although you know, these
do these drugs do help a certain subset of the
depressed population, but what the data shows is that for
people with mild depression, for moderate depression, these drugs are
no more effective than placebo, certainly not exercise physical exercise,
for example. And so yeah, I think we do need
to have greater transparency with regards to these drugs. And
(06:30):
in my view, in my interpretation of what's going on
as an outsider to the MAHA movement, and you know,
the these initiatives that RFK is now champion championing, that's
what he's asking for. He's asking for greater transparency, greater
informed consent, And how could you argue with that?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I saw this the other day where just on Twitter
someone posted like, we have the most depressed society.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
In the world. And yet when.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
People come to depressed people and say I've got a
great for you, it's just going to cause you to
gain a massive amount of weight and never orgasm again.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
And they're like, yes, please.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
Yeah, you know why.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And you wonder why we're still depressed, because it's not
that you're not depressed after That's the other problem is.
And that's I think what RFK was saying is the
problem is that we have all these people who are
not not depressed. It's not that they are no longer
depressed after they take these medications. This doesn't seem to
be solving the problem in all cases, and therefore why
(07:28):
shouldn't we study it more?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
There?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And that goes to the question of government involvement. And
once you have all of these pharmaceutical companies that are
somehow lobbying these folks in Washington, and.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Can you really cut through that red tape?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And this is I think the culture shock in Washington
to have somebody like a Kennedy walk in there and go,
you know what, We're going to take an extra look
at it and it bothers me because I think you're right.
I think you end up with a lot of people.
I think you described it as something like walking zombies
or some elderly people that are. And I have the
same situation with my grandfather. He was on multiple medications
(08:08):
for everything under the sun. And when you see that
in their room, like next to their nightstand, you do
as now as an adult, now that we have been
talking about this and we do have more of a
questioning mind about medications, I look back on that and think,
whow how do they know when you have twelve different medications,
how they're interacting?
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, nobody knows. Nobody knows.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And you know, I heard it said once that if
you go on vacation and your depression lifts, you don't
have depression, You just have a shitty life. And so
I think often it's I think what makes people uncomfortable
is that it requires a degree of accountability for their lives.
And certainly not every certain life circumstance is escapable. I mean,
(08:51):
I'll just say from my own personal experience when my
mom was ill, that was the most stressful period of
my life and I wasn't able to escape that st
nor would I if I had the opportunity, because my
mom needed my help and she was a person who
I loved most.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
In the world.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
But what I did was I realized that, Okay, I've
inherited a certain circumstance which I can't escape, and I
need to be.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
There for my mom.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
But there are ways now elucidated in our most respected
peer review journals that show that you can actually bolster
if you can't escape the stress, the stressful stimuli, you
can bolster your resilience, for example, with physical exercise, with
maybe a diet that's comprised primarily of minimally processed whole foods.
(09:37):
I mean, today your average adult sixty percent of the
calories that your average adult is consuming come from ultra
processed foods and ultra processed foods. I mean, there was
recently an updated review and meta analysis that found that
these kinds of foods, which now predominate American diets, are
linked to thirty two different ways that your health can
suffer thirty two different negative health outcomes.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
The obvious ones.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Of course, were included in this meta analysis, the obesity,
the type two diabetes, the heart disease, the cancer, but
also mental health conditions like anxiety and depression are now
increasingly being linked to our consumption, our over consumption of
ultra processed foods. And so, you know, for anybody listening
who is stuck in a stressful stimulation, a stressful situation,
(10:21):
you know, I think the first thing that one ought
to do is try to examine where in their lives
they can improve their situation. And if they can't improve
certain aspects of their situation, well then it's good to
know that we can also bolster our resilience, which essentially,
you know, affects how our bodies handle stress, deal with
(10:43):
stress in a way that's maybe more productive, less likely
to cause chronic disease, which we know that chronic stress
can be implicated in.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, I've seen you post some things about the importance
of exercise and what you're putting into your body and
even weightlifting and things like that, and I think that's
something that we do tend to forget about.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
In our lives. You know, we get and we're looking
for the quick fix.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So that's why you see this real push for ozebic
right now is like, oh my goodness, I have this
opportunity to just have this quick fix and then I'll
be healthy. I think we forget that that doesn't necessarily
mean healthy, because you have to continually change your body,
and you have to feed your body, and you have
to care for your body, just like you care for
your child.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You have to care for.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yourself, and so often, I mean it's almost like when
you're on the airplane and they say make sure you
put your mask on first, and then care for the
younger kids next to you. I mean it's similar when
as a parent, I certainly know this. I'm like, oh,
I couldn't do that because I had the kids and
I can't work out and I can't eat healthy. And
I went to fast food and I saw somebody saying, oh, now,
the MAHA movement is about making sure fast food is healthy.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Give me a break.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And I think you made a great point saying, you
know what, a lot of people that's their only meal,
and a lot of time life is so busy you're like, oh,
we'll just stop here and we'll eat, and then you
get into this cycle of eating crap because it's what's
available and that's the way it's just always been cooked.
But I love the idea of going in and saying, hey,
(12:17):
if this is ban in Europe. You can't use it here.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And we have to be careful of what we put
inside of our bodies.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
I mean the rhetoric that you now see surrounding pretty
much anything that RFK does. I mean, for me, it's
just another sort of extension of Trump derangement syndrome and
which has now become RFK derangement syndrome. And you know,
this should be a non part is an issue at
the end of the day, and I think what you
eat determines by and large how much you're eating. So
(12:47):
in a time where almost one in two adults are
not just overweight but obese, we do need to start
looking at the food supply and the additives that are
making you know, these ultra processed foods as addictive as
they are. I mean, there was a paper that came
out that actually found ultra processed foods to tick all
of the same boxes for an addictive substance, the same
boxes that tobacco ticks.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next
on the Tutor Dixon podcast. I also don't know how
to read labels. You know, I bought protein powder the
other day and I'm like, Okay, I'm going to like
make smoothies and we're gonna all like, it'll be an
easy way for us to all have something quick in
the morning and we'll put you know, fruit and bananas
(13:30):
in it. And then I flip that over and I'm
reading after I get it home, of course, because I'm like,
this is in.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
The healthy section of the grocery store.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We're all good here, Like, wait a minute, saw sunflower
seed this and that.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I'm like, is this all bad for us?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I mean that's kind of the grand irony is that
I said something recently that kind of went viral at
the recent Senate hearing that I was invited to partake
in with Senator Ron Johnson. I don't know if you
caught if you saw any of that footage, but if
your supermarket has a health food section, what does that
make the rest of the store.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, yes, I did see that.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Yeah, But the irony is that most of the items
in the health food sective of the supermarket are garbage too.
So you're you know, you can't win today. And I
think that's why, you know, a simple heuristic like just
remembering to shop around the perimeter of the supermarket can
be so valuable for people because the perimeter of the
supermarket is where we find all the fresh, perishable foods,
(14:26):
protein bars and things like that. Yeah, I mean we're
you know, now, there are a lot of ultra processed
foods that the concept is protein washing. So they're putting
like high protein this, high protein that on all of
these ultra processed foods. But it's essentially just lipstick on
a pig. Most of the protein that they'll use to
inflate the protein content of these ultra processed foods are
(14:48):
of extremely low quality and generally make up a very
small proportion of the calories anyway, So yeah, definitely worth
being mindful of.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
So we're just eating.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I mean I see it all the time on granola
bars and this and that, and it is really like,
this is a sugary snack, but I feel like it's
good because it says it's got twenty four grams of
protein on the front, and that is totally meaningless to me,
but in my mind it must be great. So I
and that is how my mind works, because I'm a
marketer's dream. I say this all the time. If something
comes in a new package, I'm like that looks delicious.
(15:20):
You know. It's like I already have eaten that. I
know what it tastes like, but it looks wonderful. And
it's so funny because I think it is ingrained in
us because I sent my daughter. My daughter is always
looking for like that, how can we get rid of food,
dyes and everything. And there was this thing a meme
the or a picture the other day of I think
(15:40):
it was Derito's, and they're like they're trying to make
Doritos into like the.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Simply brand that they have that has no.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Supposedly no bad stuff, you know, but it's obviously just
like you said, health food. But she she it's so
funny because the Dorito's bag was like super exciting and
it looked really fun and then the Simply bag looks
like someone who is trying to be like one of
those those people that is very clean in their house.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
They have like no knickknacks or anything.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know, It's like it's supposed to look like there's
nothing in it, but it does look like there's nothing
in it. And I sent it to my fifteen year
old and she goes, yeah, but nothing about that package
makes me want to eat this.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I'm like, that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
That she noted that, you know, because it just looks
like a minimalist you know, you walk into someone's house
and you're like, does anybody live here?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
That's what the package looks like.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And the Dorito's package, they're like, Oh, we're going to
make it so much healthier. But the Dorito's package is like,
come and eat me.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I look wonderful.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Well, yeah, and you're an adult with a fully formed
prefrontal cortex. I mean, imagine being a twelve year old
ye seeing all of these like flashy colors at the supermarket.
I mean that's where this whole argument about removing artificial
food dies from the food supply comes from. I don't
think if you remove food dies, artificial food dies from
the American food supply, that it's suddenly going to make
Americans healthy again. That's a red herring. But also I mean,
(17:03):
if it could, if it makes the products even a
smidge and less attractive to children who are now seeing
startling rates of overweight and obesity and even hypertension. We're
seeing now creep up in adolescents and all kinds of
conditions that were once limited to adult populations like adult
onset diabetes. Type two diabetes used to be considered adult
onset diabetes, and now we're seeing more and more children
(17:25):
show signs of insulin resistance, and it all comes back
to the food supply. So, you know, I think that
I don't want to throw the food industry completely under
the bus, or do I want to throw the baby
out with the bad bathwater. I think that these incremental changes,
there's an argument to be made against incrementalism. I think,
you know there, I think we've reached a point in
(17:46):
society now where it's maybe helpful to have the bowl
in the China shop approach, as we're now seeing in
so many areas of government. But I do think that
it is a step in the right direction. For for example,
these ultra processed food manufactur to start slowly removing some
of these additives from their products and make incrementally healthier versions.
For example, the Whole Steak and Shake switch from frying
(18:10):
their French fries in vegetable although I've heard there's some
controversy there that maybe they're pre cooked and vegetable oils.
I don't know, but the switch at least from from
you know, the point of sale from frying their French
fries and vegetable oil to tallow. I mean, I think
that's a move in the right direction. I think that,
you know, the more we can limit our exposure to
(18:31):
potentially rancid, refined, bleached and deodorized seed oils, I mean,
isn't that going to be a good thing over the
long term for long term health. I mean, we know
that beef tallow is comprised of fats that are chemically stable,
which can't be said for the kinds of fats that
you know, we would typically find in the fryer setting,
you know, soybean oil, canola oil, corn oil, things like that.
(18:55):
These fats go rancid at high temperatures, particularly when they're
kept high temperatures and reheated, which they often are. This
can expose people to really harmful you know, not just
fats that have essentially gone bad by way of a
process known as oxidation, but a lot of really harmful aldehydes.
(19:16):
Chemicals called aldehydes are generated in the fryer setting, which
doesn't happen as readily when you fry, for example, potatoes.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
In beef tallow.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
So fast food is still going to be fast food,
But people are always going to eat fast food. So
if we can incrementally make it somewhat healthier, then I
think that's a good thing. Now, what I prefer the
oils used to be more unsaturated. Would I prefer them
to fry French fries in extra virgin olive oil, for example,
which I think is actually healthier than beef tallow. Yes,
(19:46):
but we can't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yes, Yes, that's so. Do you think that? I mean
you mentioned that kids.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
This is being marketed to kids, and we are a
unique society where we market everything to everyone. We market pharmaceuticals,
we market It used to be that you could market cigarettes,
even to kids, and then that stopped, And to me,
I think that really was I mean, it was a
tough movement in government. I think to say that because
(20:16):
when I was a kid, we had camel, we had
the Marlboro Man.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You know, that's very cool.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And when I was a kid, I remember everybody smoking
and you would go to restaurants. Obviously you could smoke
in restaurants, but you would also be just walking through
town and people would be smoking. And that's something that
it's almost shocking now to me when I'm walking behind
someone that has a cigarette, I'm like, oh gosh, you
forget that people.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Used to smoke all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
And then when you stopped the advertising, it was not
just the advertising that stop, though, I think it was
also the campaign of like, this is also going to
kill you, by the way, But what is different about
some of these foods that are being marketed to kids?
And it's a constant and they're constantly pushing really really
bad foods on children.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And when you think about the fact that Secretary Kennedy said, I.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Want to go in there because of this chronic disease
in our children.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And it's not just chronic disease and kids.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Is I think this shocking part of it because we
look at it and we go this is has never
been before, And this shouldn't be their little kids. They
shouldn't have diabetes, they shouldn't have patty livers, they shouldn't
have all of these problems that we're seeing that we've
never seen in children before.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
But the cancer rate on adults is higher than we've.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Ever seen before too, So is this an issue where
we shouldn't be marketing what is essentially toxic to kids,
to humans.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Absolutely, yeah, I mean ultra processed foods now, and I
think that is that's already like we've already brought this
conversation to the national stage, whereas you know, even six
months ago, I mean, very few people were talking about
this or it was considered you know, wellness chatter as
(21:58):
opposed to something that we actually do need at this
stage to take a magnifying glass too. I mean, I
cited the fact that sixty percent of your average adults
calories today come from ultra processed foods. For children, that
proportion is even higher, it's about seventy to eighty percent.
And these are the kinds of foods that now, I mean,
(22:18):
they're highly calorie dense, they're nutrient poor, So I mean,
this is one of the reasons why ninety percent of
people today have a deficiency in at least one essential nutrient.
They're hyper palatable. So our efforts to moderate our consumption
of these foods often fails. And yet we, you know,
we see that failure as being a moral failure, when
(22:39):
in fact it's you know, it's it's human nature to
want to over consume these foods that are rich in
nutrients that were scarce for the majority of our time
on this planet up until very recently, and when these
foods are marketed to children, I mean, I think that's
where it all goes out the window. I mean, it's
as any parent knows. I mean, it's hard to ice
(23:00):
to let your kids from these kinds of foods. Which
isn't to say that a little bit here and there
is a problem. I mean, ultimately, your health is made
up is determined largely by your dietary pattern. There's no
single meal or single food that's going to sway your
health in any major direction. But when we're consuming these
foods day in and day out, as so many of
us are, that's when real problems occur. And so I
(23:23):
think it's amazing that we're starting to have this conversation
now with at the public scale.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It is because even my kids have come home and
I've noted that they're like, oh, so and so's off dies,
and that's how they talk about it.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
And then so and so's not having seed oils.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Her mom's stopping her from having that, so she can't
eat this, and she can't eat that, And I'm like, man, suddenly,
as consumers, we are really looking at labels and really
taking a step back and saying we're not going to purchase,
and that purchasing. You as a consumer, have a lot
of power when you're purchasing. And if people in mass
decide we're not purchasing certain things, then that pushes those manufacturers,
(24:01):
those food manufacturers to say, okay, well, maybe we will
take all of the artificial die out of lucky charms,
you know, or maybe we will reduce this sugar content.
But these are all foods that have become something we're
used to and we're not as used to. I mean,
when you say that kids are eating more processed food
than adults, that's.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Horrifying to me. But also I look at our schools.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
They're providing lunch, and they're providing breakfast and lunch, but
those are not healthy breakfasts and lunches. And that's the
frustrating part to me, is like, here, our taxpayer dollars
are going to put food, and that's better than no
food at all. And I do not argue that at all,
of course, but I also say, gosh, at what point
do we say if you are government and you are
(24:46):
supplying meals for children, there has to be some health
requirement there too, as well, and that I think that's
just this awakening of people. Even when you talked about medications,
we have historically never question when a doctor says you
need to be on this, and that I think also
changed recently. I think that you know, there was a
(25:08):
movement a few years ago, really starting out of California
before COVID, where parents were like, I don't know if
we really need all these vaccinations, and I remember people
were just bananas about it, like how could you question anything?
How could you question what is the standard procedure? And
now you have people really saying should we be on
all of these medications? Is there a better way to
(25:29):
do it? And there is a better way to do
it because you don't have to you don't necessarily. I
mean the tweet that you put out there was like
exercise and sleep and sleep is so critical and that's
another thing that we can just put aside. Oh I'll
just get I'll catch up on sleep later. You really
need to figure out how to manage your time so
that you can get enough sleep. So my question to
(25:51):
you is you, I know you talk about supplements a lot.
Our supplements good, our supplement's bad. Is there an opportunity
for parents to bring that into their child's word world.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
What is the story on supplements?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah, well, I think supplements need to be thought of
as exactly that supplement supplements, and they're certainly not a
replacement for real whole foods, but they can certainly they
can make certain aspects of adhering to a healthy diet
and lifestyle more convenient. Certainly, you just want to focus
(26:22):
on what I call the big rocks, So within the
bucket of supplements that have a strong evidence base. I mean,
we have supplements like protein powders, which I actually consider
it to be a food product, but protein powders can
be a great way to augment your diet to hit
your protein targets. I mean, the RDA for protein is
insufficient for maintaining optimal body composition. I mean we know
(26:46):
that from the literature now at this point, the RDA
is currently set too point eight grams per kilogram of
body weight. We know that for somebody who's on a
resistance training regimen, as everybody should be, that we need
at least double that to maximize the effort that we're spending.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Training.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
How do you know which ones? Though?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Because I also saw you talking to someone that said
that there's heavy metals.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
In these protein powder ex like, what.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Well, protein powders, you know, are not impervious to the
same kinds of problems that we see across the the
you know, the the Indus. The industrialized nature of our
food supply today, so you know, fruits and vegetables can
often harbor heavy metals depending on where they're grown. You know, what,
what is the quality of the soil that our fruits
(27:35):
and vegetables are grown in, for example, And the same
goes for certain protein powders. And the protein powders in
question are the plant based protein powders. Again, plants will
suck up minerals from the soil, but they will also
suck up whatever heavy metals tend to be uh lingering around.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
And so what.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
The research shows is that plant based protein powder tend
to be contaminated or you know, at least harbor to
a certain degree certain heavy.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Metals like lead and cadmium and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
So, unless you have a very specific reason for using
plant based protein powders, my view is that you should
always be using a way based protein powder, which is
dairy based, but a wave protein isolate is actually has
negligible quantities of usually the component of way of dairy
(28:29):
that gives most people problems. So dairy can be very
allergenic for people. It's the most common sort of dietary allergen.
But a wave protein isolate has virtually no lactose in it,
it has no caseine in it, so it's very well
tolerated by people that have dairy, even by people that
have dairy sensitivities. And it's the highest biological value source
(28:50):
of protein that you could ingest pretty much. So I
always say that, you know, if you want to augment
the protein in your diet way, protein is should be
a staple. And there's also data that suggests that chocolate
flavored tend to carry contain more lead because cacao can
be a source of lead, and so vanilla ay protein
is generally the go to, which I know sounds really specific,
(29:11):
but it is the safest kind of supplementary protein that
you could that you could buy. So there's a lot there.
But but you know, the industrial the industrialized food.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Supply, it's a double edged sword.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
We've solved for food scarcity, so food is now more
abundant than it's ever been. But it comes with problems.
And that's why you know, we again, we can't let
perfect be the enemy of the good. Right, if you're
consuming dark leafy greens like kale, yes, there's a you know,
there's a there's a chance that you're maybe ingesting some
heavy metals.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Along with it.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
But the risk benefit analysis, I think the benefits outweigh
the risks. You just want to be an informed consumer,
the same way that you know, if you're a physicianist
prescribing a drug, do you want to be an informed patient.
I think this is just now it's a call to
arm yourself with as much as much information as you
can because today, more than ever before, we have fewer excuses.
(30:03):
Right like we have AI, we have you know, pub
met is available to every person. We have all of
the world's knowledge at our fingertips twenty four hours a day,
and so there's no excuse to not be as informed
as you can possibly be for you, for your loved ones,
your children.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Et cetera.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Before I let you go, what is your best advice
to people out there that are just trying to get
more more energy. You know, we're at that, We're at
that point as parents. Once you hit a certain point,
you're tired, You're not thinking about your own health, You're
thinking about your kid's house. What are some quick things
that you can do to just get back on track
and sort of change that lifestyle trend of process foods
(30:48):
and feeling sluggish.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Yeah, I think you just well, first you have to
be kind to yourself, like it's we live in complicated times,
and I know that you know, whole foods can be
more expensive, but I try to lay out of my
books ways to cost cut in a way that's super
effective but still allows for the most nutrient dense diet possible.
So buying frozen I think buying frozen whole foods, I mean,
(31:12):
you know, I have been doing this long enough to
now see that it's you can go to Target and
you can get organic food on the cheap. You can
buy frozen wild salmon, for example, from Costco. Grass fed
grass finished beef is now more ubiquitous than it's ever
been before. But again, you know, I'm going to repeat this.
We can't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
I think the fear mongering around industrially produced animal source foods.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Is really harmful.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
It's really harmful rhetoric, like even a conventionally produced piece
of lean red meat is going to be a much
better option for dinner than what most people are consuming
today and serving their children. So, you know, I think
it's important to get back to basics and to remember
to shop the perimeter and you know, foods like red meat, eggs, fish.
I mean, these are all great foods. They are whole foods,
(32:03):
fruits and vegetables. We've got to stop fear mongering. I mean,
the carnivore community fear mongers fruits and vegetables and things
like that. I think that's a big shame. So be
a critical thinker and apply logic and an evolutionary lens.
You know, the longer a food has been available to
us as humans, I think, the more we can safely
assume that it's going to be worthwhile integrating into our diets.
(32:26):
And the less time of food or product has been
you know, in the human food supply, I think the
greater scrutiny that we should apply to it, the greater
skepticism we should apply to foods like refined bleach and
deodorized seed oils. I mean, we're told all day long
that these are a heart healthy alternative to you know,
the fats naturally found in animal source foods. But who's
telling us that. Are these studies that we're looking at
(32:48):
funded by the seed oil industry for example, I mean
there's plenty of that out there. So I just think
we all need to get back to a sense of reason, logic,
common sense, and yeah, stick to whole food is absolutely
is the bottom line.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I really appreciate you coming on and talking to us
about all this today.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Tell us where we can get the books.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Yeah, so my books Genius Foods Genius Kitchen is a
cookbook actually that came out about a year and a
half ago. Those are available wherever books are sold. And
then I host my own podcast called The Genius Life,
so we put up two episodes a week, and yeah,
I really enjoy doing that.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And this is where I learned about the protein powders
and also that you had one on having a disc
replaced in your back and I.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Was like, I got to send this to my mom.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
So really there I was looking through some of the
things that you've talked about, and these are all interesting
facts about life that.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
You can learn.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I mean, the podcast is very valuable because everybody who's
a human going through what humans go through can find
something in your podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
So I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Yeah, I'm just trying to take my audience with me
along for the ride of curiosity and lifelong learning. And
you know, I'm not perfect. I try to be as
transparent with my audience about my biases and where I've
maybe you know, evolved my my perspective on certain things,
and so I think that's what my audience appreciates. Like
the science, science has never settled anybody who says that,
(34:14):
I mean that right there, that is a pseudo scientific statement.
So yeah, just maintain an open mind, be a critical thinker,
and good.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Things will happen.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I agree. So okay, before I let you go, where's
the podcast?
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Podcast available wherever people listen to podcasts. We're also on
YouTube again. It's called The Genius Life.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
All right, awesome, Max luga Vier, thank you so much
for being on good thank you, and thank you all
for listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
For this episode and others.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Go to tutordisonpodcast dot com, the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts and join us next time.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Have a blast ding
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As you
have all heard, we've been talking a lot about health lately.
We've been talking a lot about.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
People changing over the way they're cooking food.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Even you've probably seen some stuff with steak and shake
and the fact that they change their fries over to
tallow fat and all of this that's going on, and
we all are hoping that this changes the health outcomes
of Americans because we are, even though we have this
expanse of I guess some people call it a healthcare
system or a sick care system, we are very sick
(00:33):
as human beings. Before we bring in Max, I have
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Speaker 2 (01:45):
So we have Max Lugavier with us here today.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
He is a longevity expert, health and science journalist, and
the author of the New York Times best selling Genius
book series. So it's Genius Kitchen, Genius Foods, Genius Life,
and we're hope he's a genius so he can tell
us all about how to be healthier.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Max, welcome, thank.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You so much for having me as an honor.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Absolutely, so I've been like scrolling through your stuff and
going through your Twitter account and everything, and there's just
there is so much. We can't even get to it
in the time that we have, but there's so much
going on. One of the things that is kind of
near and dear to my heart is the fact that
RFK Junior came out and said that he was going
to look at some of these antidepressants and anti anxiety
(02:27):
meds and people went crazy about it, which is I
think kind of twofold. There's a strong addiction to these medications.
People are very upset about letting it go, but not
even just letting it go, researching what it's actually doing
is scary to people.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Why is that happening?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, I mean it's a great place to start the conversation.
I think nuance needs to be brought to the conversation.
Of course, everybody today is so polarized and so inflamed
about so many different topics, right, But with regards to
the anti depressant issue, we have an over prescription problem
in this country. Which isn't to say that we also
(03:06):
have an access to medication issue in this country as well,
but these kinds of drugs now are being prescribed almost
as if from a pez dispenser, which you know, I
might be revealing my age.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I don't know if those things still exist, but.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
No, they do. You're safe, they do, Okay, I'm saying, cool.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Yeah, it's a it's a huge problem. I mean today,
many people I think last I checked, in general, one
in ten people are on some kind of antidepressant drug,
but that proportion shoots up to one in four for
you know, certain demographics, for example, women over forty, and
you know, we have to ask ourselves, what is the
root cause of the malaise that so many people seem
(03:47):
to be feeling.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Is it due to.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
A SSRI deficiency? I don't think so that would be unusual.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Well, I so here's a question for you, because I
believe it's like, oh, we've figured out that this can
help this and this and this, and we'll just prescribe
it to you without even telling you what it does.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Because like women hit.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
That age period between forty and fifty, and let me
tell you, doctors come to you and they're like, an
antidepressant can help you with all of the things that
your body is going to go through without telling you
what an antidepressant is going to do to your body,
even though you're not depressed.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
MM. Hmm, yeah. I mean so many people.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
We lack appropriate informed consent, yes, today with regards to
many things. I mean, whether it's the food supply that
we've inherited or these pharmaceutical drugs. I mean I saw
this in my own family. The reason why I do
what I do is that my mother was very sick
for many, many years, and she had dementia, like an
early onset form of dementia called Louis body dementia, and
(04:50):
then she passed due to cancer, and by the end
of her life she was she was a perfect illustration
of what is known as hyper polypharmacies. So somebody who's
on over ten prescription drugs by the end of her life,
and there's no physician on earth that fully understands how
these different drugs are interacting with one another in an
(05:10):
increasingly frail system. And one of the drugs that my
mom was on, actually she had been on it for years,
was an SSRI drug because at the onset of her
cognitive decline, her psychiatrist thought that the symptoms that she
was exhibiting were due to depression. Now, severe forms of
depression can actually mimic a type of dementia known as
(05:33):
pseudo dementia, but of course we realized down the road
that this was not due to depression. My mom actually
had a serious neuro cognitive condition.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
But what is not.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Usually disclosed is that these drugs are very difficult to
come off of, and they also coincide with not side effects,
but effects that our secondary to maybe whatever it is
that they're trying to treat. Many people lose libido, they
gain weight, and often the root cause of depression is
(06:08):
again not due to SSRI deficiency, although you know, these
do these drugs do help a certain subset of the
depressed population, but what the data shows is that for
people with mild depression, for moderate depression, these drugs are
no more effective than placebo, certainly not exercise physical exercise,
for example. And so yeah, I think we do need
to have greater transparency with regards to these drugs. And
(06:30):
in my view, in my interpretation of what's going on
as an outsider to the MAHA movement, and you know,
the these initiatives that RFK is now champion championing, that's
what he's asking for. He's asking for greater transparency, greater
informed consent, And how could you argue with that?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I saw this the other day where just on Twitter
someone posted like, we have the most depressed society.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
In the world. And yet when.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
People come to depressed people and say I've got a
great for you, it's just going to cause you to
gain a massive amount of weight and never orgasm again.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
And they're like, yes, please.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
Yeah, you know why.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And you wonder why we're still depressed, because it's not
that you're not depressed after That's the other problem is.
And that's I think what RFK was saying is the
problem is that we have all these people who are
not not depressed. It's not that they are no longer
depressed after they take these medications. This doesn't seem to
be solving the problem in all cases, and therefore why
(07:28):
shouldn't we study it more?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
There?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And that goes to the question of government involvement. And
once you have all of these pharmaceutical companies that are
somehow lobbying these folks in Washington, and.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Can you really cut through that red tape?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And this is I think the culture shock in Washington
to have somebody like a Kennedy walk in there and go,
you know what, We're going to take an extra look
at it and it bothers me because I think you're right.
I think you end up with a lot of people.
I think you described it as something like walking zombies
or some elderly people that are. And I have the
same situation with my grandfather. He was on multiple medications
(08:08):
for everything under the sun. And when you see that
in their room, like next to their nightstand, you do
as now as an adult, now that we have been
talking about this and we do have more of a
questioning mind about medications, I look back on that and think,
whow how do they know when you have twelve different medications,
how they're interacting?
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, nobody knows. Nobody knows.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And you know, I heard it said once that if
you go on vacation and your depression lifts, you don't
have depression, You just have a shitty life. And so
I think often it's I think what makes people uncomfortable
is that it requires a degree of accountability for their lives.
And certainly not every certain life circumstance is escapable. I mean,
(08:51):
I'll just say from my own personal experience when my
mom was ill, that was the most stressful period of
my life and I wasn't able to escape that st
nor would I if I had the opportunity, because my
mom needed my help and she was a person who
I loved most.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
In the world.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
But what I did was I realized that, Okay, I've
inherited a certain circumstance which I can't escape, and I
need to be.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
There for my mom.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
But there are ways now elucidated in our most respected
peer review journals that show that you can actually bolster
if you can't escape the stress, the stressful stimuli, you
can bolster your resilience, for example, with physical exercise, with
maybe a diet that's comprised primarily of minimally processed whole foods.
(09:37):
I mean, today your average adult sixty percent of the
calories that your average adult is consuming come from ultra
processed foods and ultra processed foods. I mean, there was
recently an updated review and meta analysis that found that
these kinds of foods, which now predominate American diets, are
linked to thirty two different ways that your health can
suffer thirty two different negative health outcomes.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
The obvious ones.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Of course, were included in this meta analysis, the obesity,
the type two diabetes, the heart disease, the cancer, but
also mental health conditions like anxiety and depression are now
increasingly being linked to our consumption, our over consumption of
ultra processed foods. And so, you know, for anybody listening
who is stuck in a stressful stimulation, a stressful situation,
(10:21):
you know, I think the first thing that one ought
to do is try to examine where in their lives
they can improve their situation. And if they can't improve
certain aspects of their situation, well then it's good to
know that we can also bolster our resilience, which essentially,
you know, affects how our bodies handle stress, deal with
(10:43):
stress in a way that's maybe more productive, less likely
to cause chronic disease, which we know that chronic stress
can be implicated in.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, I've seen you post some things about the importance
of exercise and what you're putting into your body and
even weightlifting and things like that, and I think that's
something that we do tend to forget about.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
In our lives. You know, we get and we're looking
for the quick fix.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So that's why you see this real push for ozebic
right now is like, oh my goodness, I have this
opportunity to just have this quick fix and then I'll
be healthy. I think we forget that that doesn't necessarily
mean healthy, because you have to continually change your body,
and you have to feed your body, and you have
to care for your body, just like you care for
your child.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You have to care for.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yourself, and so often, I mean it's almost like when
you're on the airplane and they say make sure you
put your mask on first, and then care for the
younger kids next to you. I mean it's similar when
as a parent, I certainly know this. I'm like, oh,
I couldn't do that because I had the kids and
I can't work out and I can't eat healthy. And
I went to fast food and I saw somebody saying, oh, now,
the MAHA movement is about making sure fast food is healthy.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Give me a break.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And I think you made a great point saying, you
know what, a lot of people that's their only meal,
and a lot of time life is so busy you're like, oh,
we'll just stop here and we'll eat, and then you
get into this cycle of eating crap because it's what's
available and that's the way it's just always been cooked.
But I love the idea of going in and saying, hey,
(12:17):
if this is ban in Europe. You can't use it here.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And we have to be careful of what we put
inside of our bodies.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
I mean the rhetoric that you now see surrounding pretty
much anything that RFK does. I mean, for me, it's
just another sort of extension of Trump derangement syndrome and
which has now become RFK derangement syndrome. And you know,
this should be a non part is an issue at
the end of the day, and I think what you
eat determines by and large how much you're eating. So
(12:47):
in a time where almost one in two adults are
not just overweight but obese, we do need to start
looking at the food supply and the additives that are
making you know, these ultra processed foods as addictive as
they are. I mean, there was a paper that came
out that actually found ultra processed foods to tick all
of the same boxes for an addictive substance, the same
boxes that tobacco ticks.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next
on the Tutor Dixon podcast. I also don't know how
to read labels. You know, I bought protein powder the
other day and I'm like, Okay, I'm going to like
make smoothies and we're gonna all like, it'll be an
easy way for us to all have something quick in
the morning and we'll put you know, fruit and bananas
(13:30):
in it. And then I flip that over and I'm
reading after I get it home, of course, because I'm like,
this is in.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
The healthy section of the grocery store.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We're all good here, Like, wait a minute, saw sunflower
seed this and that.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I'm like, is this all bad for us?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I mean that's kind of the grand irony is that
I said something recently that kind of went viral at
the recent Senate hearing that I was invited to partake
in with Senator Ron Johnson. I don't know if you
caught if you saw any of that footage, but if
your supermarket has a health food section, what does that
make the rest of the store.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, yes, I did see that.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Yeah, But the irony is that most of the items
in the health food sective of the supermarket are garbage too.
So you're you know, you can't win today. And I
think that's why, you know, a simple heuristic like just
remembering to shop around the perimeter of the supermarket can
be so valuable for people because the perimeter of the
supermarket is where we find all the fresh, perishable foods,
(14:26):
protein bars and things like that. Yeah, I mean we're
you know, now, there are a lot of ultra processed
foods that the concept is protein washing. So they're putting
like high protein this, high protein that on all of
these ultra processed foods. But it's essentially just lipstick on
a pig. Most of the protein that they'll use to
inflate the protein content of these ultra processed foods are
(14:48):
of extremely low quality and generally make up a very
small proportion of the calories anyway, So yeah, definitely worth
being mindful of.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
So we're just eating.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I mean I see it all the time on granola
bars and this and that, and it is really like,
this is a sugary snack, but I feel like it's
good because it says it's got twenty four grams of
protein on the front, and that is totally meaningless to me,
but in my mind it must be great. So I
and that is how my mind works, because I'm a
marketer's dream. I say this all the time. If something
comes in a new package, I'm like that looks delicious.
(15:20):
You know. It's like I already have eaten that. I
know what it tastes like, but it looks wonderful. And
it's so funny because I think it is ingrained in
us because I sent my daughter. My daughter is always
looking for like that, how can we get rid of food,
dyes and everything. And there was this thing a meme
the or a picture the other day of I think
(15:40):
it was Derito's, and they're like they're trying to make
Doritos into like the.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Simply brand that they have that has no.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Supposedly no bad stuff, you know, but it's obviously just
like you said, health food. But she she it's so
funny because the Dorito's bag was like super exciting and
it looked really fun and then the Simply bag looks
like someone who is trying to be like one of
those those people that is very clean in their house.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
They have like no knickknacks or anything.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know, It's like it's supposed to look like there's
nothing in it, but it does look like there's nothing
in it. And I sent it to my fifteen year
old and she goes, yeah, but nothing about that package
makes me want to eat this.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I'm like, that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
That she noted that, you know, because it just looks
like a minimalist you know, you walk into someone's house
and you're like, does anybody live here?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
That's what the package looks like.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And the Dorito's package, they're like, Oh, we're going to
make it so much healthier. But the Dorito's package is like,
come and eat me.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I look wonderful.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Well, yeah, and you're an adult with a fully formed
prefrontal cortex. I mean, imagine being a twelve year old
ye seeing all of these like flashy colors at the supermarket.
I mean that's where this whole argument about removing artificial
food dies from the food supply comes from. I don't
think if you remove food dies, artificial food dies from
the American food supply, that it's suddenly going to make
Americans healthy again. That's a red herring. But also I mean,
(17:03):
if it could, if it makes the products even a
smidge and less attractive to children who are now seeing
startling rates of overweight and obesity and even hypertension. We're
seeing now creep up in adolescents and all kinds of
conditions that were once limited to adult populations like adult
onset diabetes. Type two diabetes used to be considered adult
onset diabetes, and now we're seeing more and more children
(17:25):
show signs of insulin resistance, and it all comes back
to the food supply. So, you know, I think that
I don't want to throw the food industry completely under
the bus, or do I want to throw the baby
out with the bad bathwater. I think that these incremental changes,
there's an argument to be made against incrementalism. I think,
you know there, I think we've reached a point in
(17:46):
society now where it's maybe helpful to have the bowl
in the China shop approach, as we're now seeing in
so many areas of government. But I do think that
it is a step in the right direction. For for example,
these ultra processed food manufactur to start slowly removing some
of these additives from their products and make incrementally healthier versions.
For example, the Whole Steak and Shake switch from frying
(18:10):
their French fries in vegetable although I've heard there's some
controversy there that maybe they're pre cooked and vegetable oils.
I don't know, but the switch at least from from
you know, the point of sale from frying their French
fries and vegetable oil to tallow. I mean, I think
that's a move in the right direction. I think that,
you know, the more we can limit our exposure to
(18:31):
potentially rancid, refined, bleached and deodorized seed oils, I mean,
isn't that going to be a good thing over the
long term for long term health. I mean, we know
that beef tallow is comprised of fats that are chemically stable,
which can't be said for the kinds of fats that
you know, we would typically find in the fryer setting,
you know, soybean oil, canola oil, corn oil, things like that.
(18:55):
These fats go rancid at high temperatures, particularly when they're
kept high temperatures and reheated, which they often are. This
can expose people to really harmful you know, not just
fats that have essentially gone bad by way of a
process known as oxidation, but a lot of really harmful aldehydes.
(19:16):
Chemicals called aldehydes are generated in the fryer setting, which
doesn't happen as readily when you fry, for example, potatoes.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
In beef tallow.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
So fast food is still going to be fast food,
But people are always going to eat fast food. So
if we can incrementally make it somewhat healthier, then I
think that's a good thing. Now, what I prefer the
oils used to be more unsaturated. Would I prefer them
to fry French fries in extra virgin olive oil, for example,
which I think is actually healthier than beef tallow. Yes,
(19:46):
but we can't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yes, Yes, that's so. Do you think that? I mean
you mentioned that kids.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
This is being marketed to kids, and we are a
unique society where we market everything to everyone. We market pharmaceuticals,
we market It used to be that you could market cigarettes,
even to kids, and then that stopped, And to me,
I think that really was I mean, it was a
tough movement in government. I think to say that because
(20:16):
when I was a kid, we had camel, we had
the Marlboro Man.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You know, that's very cool.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And when I was a kid, I remember everybody smoking
and you would go to restaurants. Obviously you could smoke
in restaurants, but you would also be just walking through
town and people would be smoking. And that's something that
it's almost shocking now to me when I'm walking behind
someone that has a cigarette, I'm like, oh gosh, you
forget that people.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Used to smoke all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
And then when you stopped the advertising, it was not
just the advertising that stop, though, I think it was
also the campaign of like, this is also going to
kill you, by the way, But what is different about
some of these foods that are being marketed to kids?
And it's a constant and they're constantly pushing really really
bad foods on children.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And when you think about the fact that Secretary Kennedy said, I.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Want to go in there because of this chronic disease
in our children.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And it's not just chronic disease and kids.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Is I think this shocking part of it because we
look at it and we go this is has never
been before, And this shouldn't be their little kids. They
shouldn't have diabetes, they shouldn't have patty livers, they shouldn't
have all of these problems that we're seeing that we've
never seen in children before.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
But the cancer rate on adults is higher than we've.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Ever seen before too, So is this an issue where
we shouldn't be marketing what is essentially toxic to kids,
to humans.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Absolutely, yeah, I mean ultra processed foods now, and I
think that is that's already like we've already brought this
conversation to the national stage, whereas you know, even six
months ago, I mean, very few people were talking about
this or it was considered you know, wellness chatter as
(21:58):
opposed to something that we actually do need at this
stage to take a magnifying glass too. I mean, I
cited the fact that sixty percent of your average adults
calories today come from ultra processed foods. For children, that
proportion is even higher, it's about seventy to eighty percent.
And these are the kinds of foods that now, I mean,
(22:18):
they're highly calorie dense, they're nutrient poor, So I mean,
this is one of the reasons why ninety percent of
people today have a deficiency in at least one essential nutrient.
They're hyper palatable. So our efforts to moderate our consumption
of these foods often fails. And yet we, you know,
we see that failure as being a moral failure, when
(22:39):
in fact it's you know, it's it's human nature to
want to over consume these foods that are rich in
nutrients that were scarce for the majority of our time
on this planet up until very recently, and when these
foods are marketed to children, I mean, I think that's
where it all goes out the window. I mean, it's
as any parent knows. I mean, it's hard to ice
(23:00):
to let your kids from these kinds of foods. Which
isn't to say that a little bit here and there
is a problem. I mean, ultimately, your health is made
up is determined largely by your dietary pattern. There's no
single meal or single food that's going to sway your
health in any major direction. But when we're consuming these
foods day in and day out, as so many of
us are, that's when real problems occur. And so I
(23:23):
think it's amazing that we're starting to have this conversation
now with at the public scale.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It is because even my kids have come home and
I've noted that they're like, oh, so and so's off dies,
and that's how they talk about it.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
And then so and so's not having seed oils.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Her mom's stopping her from having that, so she can't
eat this, and she can't eat that, And I'm like, man, suddenly,
as consumers, we are really looking at labels and really
taking a step back and saying we're not going to purchase,
and that purchasing. You as a consumer, have a lot
of power when you're purchasing. And if people in mass
decide we're not purchasing certain things, then that pushes those manufacturers,
(24:01):
those food manufacturers to say, okay, well, maybe we will
take all of the artificial die out of lucky charms,
you know, or maybe we will reduce this sugar content.
But these are all foods that have become something we're
used to and we're not as used to. I mean,
when you say that kids are eating more processed food
than adults, that's.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Horrifying to me. But also I look at our schools.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
They're providing lunch, and they're providing breakfast and lunch, but
those are not healthy breakfasts and lunches. And that's the
frustrating part to me, is like, here, our taxpayer dollars
are going to put food, and that's better than no
food at all. And I do not argue that at all,
of course, but I also say, gosh, at what point
do we say if you are government and you are
(24:46):
supplying meals for children, there has to be some health
requirement there too, as well, and that I think that's
just this awakening of people. Even when you talked about medications,
we have historically never question when a doctor says you
need to be on this, and that I think also
changed recently. I think that you know, there was a
(25:08):
movement a few years ago, really starting out of California
before COVID, where parents were like, I don't know if
we really need all these vaccinations, and I remember people
were just bananas about it, like how could you question anything?
How could you question what is the standard procedure? And
now you have people really saying should we be on
all of these medications? Is there a better way to
(25:29):
do it? And there is a better way to do
it because you don't have to you don't necessarily. I
mean the tweet that you put out there was like
exercise and sleep and sleep is so critical and that's
another thing that we can just put aside. Oh I'll
just get I'll catch up on sleep later. You really
need to figure out how to manage your time so
that you can get enough sleep. So my question to
(25:51):
you is you, I know you talk about supplements a lot.
Our supplements good, our supplement's bad. Is there an opportunity
for parents to bring that into their child's word world.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
What is the story on supplements?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah, well, I think supplements need to be thought of
as exactly that supplement supplements, and they're certainly not a
replacement for real whole foods, but they can certainly they
can make certain aspects of adhering to a healthy diet
and lifestyle more convenient. Certainly, you just want to focus
(26:22):
on what I call the big rocks, So within the
bucket of supplements that have a strong evidence base. I mean,
we have supplements like protein powders, which I actually consider
it to be a food product, but protein powders can
be a great way to augment your diet to hit
your protein targets. I mean, the RDA for protein is
insufficient for maintaining optimal body composition. I mean we know
(26:46):
that from the literature now at this point, the RDA
is currently set too point eight grams per kilogram of
body weight. We know that for somebody who's on a
resistance training regimen, as everybody should be, that we need
at least double that to maximize the effort that we're spending.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Training.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
How do you know which ones? Though?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Because I also saw you talking to someone that said
that there's heavy metals.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
In these protein powder ex like, what.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Well, protein powders, you know, are not impervious to the
same kinds of problems that we see across the the
you know, the the Indus. The industrialized nature of our
food supply today, so you know, fruits and vegetables can
often harbor heavy metals depending on where they're grown. You know, what,
what is the quality of the soil that our fruits
(27:35):
and vegetables are grown in, for example, And the same
goes for certain protein powders. And the protein powders in
question are the plant based protein powders. Again, plants will
suck up minerals from the soil, but they will also
suck up whatever heavy metals tend to be uh lingering around.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
And so what.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
The research shows is that plant based protein powder tend
to be contaminated or you know, at least harbor to
a certain degree certain heavy.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Metals like lead and cadmium and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
So, unless you have a very specific reason for using
plant based protein powders, my view is that you should
always be using a way based protein powder, which is
dairy based, but a wave protein isolate is actually has
negligible quantities of usually the component of way of dairy
(28:29):
that gives most people problems. So dairy can be very
allergenic for people. It's the most common sort of dietary allergen.
But a wave protein isolate has virtually no lactose in it,
it has no caseine in it, so it's very well
tolerated by people that have dairy, even by people that
have dairy sensitivities. And it's the highest biological value source
(28:50):
of protein that you could ingest pretty much. So I
always say that, you know, if you want to augment
the protein in your diet way, protein is should be
a staple. And there's also data that suggests that chocolate
flavored tend to carry contain more lead because cacao can
be a source of lead, and so vanilla ay protein
is generally the go to, which I know sounds really specific,
(29:11):
but it is the safest kind of supplementary protein that
you could that you could buy. So there's a lot there.
But but you know, the industrial the industrialized food.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Supply, it's a double edged sword.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
We've solved for food scarcity, so food is now more
abundant than it's ever been. But it comes with problems.
And that's why you know, we again, we can't let
perfect be the enemy of the good. Right, if you're
consuming dark leafy greens like kale, yes, there's a you know,
there's a there's a chance that you're maybe ingesting some
heavy metals.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Along with it.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
But the risk benefit analysis, I think the benefits outweigh
the risks. You just want to be an informed consumer,
the same way that you know, if you're a physicianist
prescribing a drug, do you want to be an informed patient.
I think this is just now it's a call to
arm yourself with as much as much information as you
can because today, more than ever before, we have fewer excuses.
(30:03):
Right like we have AI, we have you know, pub
met is available to every person. We have all of
the world's knowledge at our fingertips twenty four hours a day,
and so there's no excuse to not be as informed
as you can possibly be for you, for your loved ones,
your children.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Et cetera.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Before I let you go, what is your best advice
to people out there that are just trying to get
more more energy. You know, we're at that, We're at
that point as parents. Once you hit a certain point,
you're tired, You're not thinking about your own health, You're
thinking about your kid's house. What are some quick things
that you can do to just get back on track
and sort of change that lifestyle trend of process foods
(30:48):
and feeling sluggish.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Yeah, I think you just well, first you have to
be kind to yourself, like it's we live in complicated times,
and I know that you know, whole foods can be
more expensive, but I try to lay out of my
books ways to cost cut in a way that's super
effective but still allows for the most nutrient dense diet possible.
So buying frozen I think buying frozen whole foods, I mean,
(31:12):
you know, I have been doing this long enough to
now see that it's you can go to Target and
you can get organic food on the cheap. You can
buy frozen wild salmon, for example, from Costco. Grass fed
grass finished beef is now more ubiquitous than it's ever
been before. But again, you know, I'm going to repeat this.
We can't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
I think the fear mongering around industrially produced animal source foods.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Is really harmful.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
It's really harmful rhetoric, like even a conventionally produced piece
of lean red meat is going to be a much
better option for dinner than what most people are consuming
today and serving their children. So, you know, I think
it's important to get back to basics and to remember
to shop the perimeter and you know, foods like red meat, eggs, fish.
I mean, these are all great foods. They are whole foods,
(32:03):
fruits and vegetables. We've got to stop fear mongering. I mean,
the carnivore community fear mongers fruits and vegetables and things
like that. I think that's a big shame. So be
a critical thinker and apply logic and an evolutionary lens.
You know, the longer a food has been available to
us as humans, I think, the more we can safely
assume that it's going to be worthwhile integrating into our diets.
(32:26):
And the less time of food or product has been
you know, in the human food supply, I think the
greater scrutiny that we should apply to it, the greater
skepticism we should apply to foods like refined bleach and
deodorized seed oils. I mean, we're told all day long
that these are a heart healthy alternative to you know,
the fats naturally found in animal source foods. But who's
telling us that. Are these studies that we're looking at
(32:48):
funded by the seed oil industry for example, I mean
there's plenty of that out there. So I just think
we all need to get back to a sense of reason, logic,
common sense, and yeah, stick to whole food is absolutely
is the bottom line.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I really appreciate you coming on and talking to us
about all this today.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Tell us where we can get the books.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Yeah, so my books Genius Foods Genius Kitchen is a
cookbook actually that came out about a year and a
half ago. Those are available wherever books are sold. And
then I host my own podcast called The Genius Life,
so we put up two episodes a week, and yeah,
I really enjoy doing that.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And this is where I learned about the protein powders
and also that you had one on having a disc
replaced in your back and I.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Was like, I got to send this to my mom.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
So really there I was looking through some of the
things that you've talked about, and these are all interesting
facts about life that.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
You can learn.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I mean, the podcast is very valuable because everybody who's
a human going through what humans go through can find
something in your podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
So I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Yeah, I'm just trying to take my audience with me
along for the ride of curiosity and lifelong learning. And
you know, I'm not perfect. I try to be as
transparent with my audience about my biases and where I've
maybe you know, evolved my my perspective on certain things,
and so I think that's what my audience appreciates. Like
the science, science has never settled anybody who says that,
(34:14):
I mean that right there, that is a pseudo scientific statement.
So yeah, just maintain an open mind, be a critical thinker,
and good.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Things will happen.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I agree. So okay, before I let you go, where's
the podcast?
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Podcast available wherever people listen to podcasts. We're also on
YouTube again. It's called The Genius Life.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
All right, awesome, Max luga Vier, thank you so much
for being on good thank you, and thank you all
for listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
For this episode and others.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Go to tutordisonpodcast dot com, the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts and join us next time.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Have a blast ding
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