December 16, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode of Wellness Unmasked, Dr. Nicole Saphier is joined by family law attorney Angela Scafuri to discuss the unique challenges parents face during the holiday season—especially single parents and families navigating divorce. They examine how holiday stress and family conflict can impact children’s mental health, why maintaining a positive and stable environment is critical, and how parents can put their children’s emotional well-being first during difficult transitions. The conversation also highlights the rising mental health concerns among children around the holidays and the importance of seeking professional support when families need help coping.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Wellness on Mass.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm doctor Nicole Saffire, and we have been talking all
about preparing for the Qualiday season here on Wellness un Mass.
We've been talking about what we as parents can do
trying to get our kids off of digital tech, what
we can be doing for ourselves in terms of preparing
for the new year physically and mentally. But one of
the things that I really wanted to kind of dive
(00:25):
deep into is another aspect of making sure that our
kids are okay. I figured for this conversation the best
guess is actually my best friend.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm going to be bringing her in just a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
But it's really interesting because you know, both of us,
we have very heavy jobs. I am looking for cancer
every single day. I diagnose cancer, and I see people
when they have now had.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
A devastating diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
She is a family law attorney and she is with
people during some of the most stressful times of their
entire life. And so while I can talk until I'm
blue in the face all about the devastation and its
toll physical health can take on an individual and a family,
I wanted to bring Angela into this conversation, especially as
(01:10):
we head into the holiday season talking about family dynamics,
kids and what we as parents can be doing to
supporting our kids. As we know, forty to fifty percent
of all us marriages maybe even more and in divorce
and nearly half involved children. So kids are affected. Holiday
season stress is high. So let's dive in Angela. I
(01:32):
am so happy that you are joining us on wellness
a Mass today.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome, Thank you, thanks for having me here.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay, so give a quick little blurb. Who are you
and why are you here today?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I am here because I'm one of your closest and
dearest friends. This is said. Also, I am a family
law attorney in New Jersey, a practice all throughout the state,
but mostly in Northern New Jersey. I've been practicing for
over twenty five years, and I deal with a lot
of high conflict sitting and parenting time issues. And I
know you want to talk to you a little bit
about children and prioritizing them during the holidays and how
(02:06):
hard it is for intact families, single parent households, parents
going through perhaps a divorce or something else, and so
I figured we could talk about it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, and you and I both have unique histories or
life experiences in the sense that we both have or
are single parents. I was a single parent at a
very young age. I think everyone kind of knows my history.
I had a son when I was in high school.
I was eighteen years old, and I was a single
parent until I met my now husband, so when I
was in medical school. So I had about a decade
(02:38):
of my life of being a single parent. And your
current situation is you are also a single parent. Talk
to me a little bit about what it's like being
a single parent.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Well, you're taking on all the roles as a single parent.
I mean, that's the easiest way to say it. I
have an only child, and I always find remarkable with
single parents who have one, two, three kids. I have
my hands full just with the one. She's just entering
into her teen years, and you know, we have a
lot going on every day. We are worried about, as
(03:09):
you know, a single parent, our single mom, meal planning, breakfast, lunch, dinner.
School academics. Are they on their subjects? Are they getting
ready for all the tests and quizzes? They just had
that conversation today. When they're out from school, we're home,
We're taking care of them, figuring out how to manage
our own jobs and how we're going to be away
from what we're supposed to be doing right to keep
(03:30):
paying the bills because we're also the sole provider in
our single family, you know, in our sole parent household.
So it's a lot of responsibility, and I feel like,
especially during the holidays, it gets compounded because then you're addressing,
you know, all of the fun stuff that you want
the kids to have, plus all the responsibilities that still
didn't go away.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Now do you find that, especially during the holiday season,
there's extra pressure on you in the sense that you know,
we talk about how, oh, well, the holiday season is
all about celebrating and togetherness, but there can come some
negative emotions with it as well. I mean, there is
this concept of togetherness and family, and if you don't
have a traditional family unit, does this put some pressure
(04:10):
on you as well?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I think it, yeah. I mean, honestly, I do think
that it comes and goes. It's not like a constant,
overarching theme of life or anything, but particularly during the holidays,
where you want the best for your kids and you
want them to have all great things and all great experiences,
and then you're worried that maybe you're not doing enough,
(04:32):
or do they feel different when they're hearing about their
friends who are traveling together with brothers and sisters and
cousins and moms and dads or you know, whatever the
case may be, in their family unit. And like I said,
I have an only child, so we have a much
smaller family. It's just us. But the flip side of
that is that we're very close and she gets to
(04:53):
have the benefit of my undivided attention all the time,
and we do a lot of fun things together. So
I think as parents, particularly as single parents, we give
ourselves like a guilt complex, Like we feel the guilt,
and I don't know that our kids are necessarily feeling
that or seeing it unless we're putting it out there
that they're feeling it from us, But otherwise they really
(05:14):
wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
From your professional standpoint, what are some of the things
that you see families maybe they've gone through divorce, they're
going through divorce. What are some of the worst possible
things that parents do in their own actions that impact
their kids.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Talk to their kids about the divorce. So I do
a lot of high conflict work with parents going through
highly contested customer and parenting time issues, and some of
the most significant cases are those where the parents feel
like they need to tell their childs everything, no matter
what they age. You're talking about five year old, a
seven year old, a preteen, a teenager, and they are
(05:53):
now in the process of their parents' conflict. And that's
so unhealthy for them emotionally, psychologically, and even physically because
they're just ramifications from that. Their brains aren't even developed, really,
and you can talk to that, right is the metal
we have and you have right, Their brains aren't developed
to process the amount of information that sometimes coming at
them in the way it's coming at them. But to
(06:14):
have kids during the divorce process. In the divorce, that's
the one thing that you want to try and avoid
at all times. Right, keep the issues between you and
your co parent, try and be as civil as you can,
Try and communicate because without communicating, right, you're not going
to make plans. Who has got Christmas Eve? Who has Honikah?
(06:36):
Are they overlapping? Not this year but other years you
have Christmas and a honka falling on the same year.
Some parents fight about who wants Christmas Eve, who wants
Christmas day. Who wants New Year's Eve? Who wants New
Year's Day? You don't want that conflict to have your
child or your children feel that. You just want them
to enjoy the experience and enjoy the holiday knowing that
they have the love and support of both of their parents.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Well, I mean, at the end of the day, it's
like parents.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Kids don't need perfect parents, but they need parents who
can keep their crap together and be responsible.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
One of the things that I talk about with the
parents in the whole digital tech and the phone and
the social media, I'm like, listen, lead by example, you
want your kids off social media, but that you're sitting
there scrolling like on your phone doing whatever. So especially
if you're trying to emulate for your kids a healthy
place mentally, if you're in this conflict and you're involving
(07:25):
the kids in it, like going keep it together, guys.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Right, And it's hard. I mean, going through a divorce
is one of the most emotional psychological things you're going
to deal with in your life. Right. It's you thought
that you had one vision of how your life was
going to be and all of a sudden it's upended
and it's completely different. As a parent and as an attorney,
I can relate to what a parent is going through
in that worst process, but you have to have the
(07:49):
self discipline to keep it together for your kids.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Absolutely, some stats that I pulled for this interview er
visits for pediatric mental health crises increase about thirty percent
during the hall season wo and children exposed to high
parental conflict, parents that are fighting two to three higher
risk of having depression. And even that, you know, we
talk about depression, and some people kind of blow off
(08:13):
mental illnesses up.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
They're just sad or oh, they're just bored or whatever
it is.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
But no, these are actual physiological changes that are happening
inside of a kid. You know, a kid who is
stressed out from the tension with their parents or the
fighting or the guilt that kids, you know, take on themselves,
like well, now my mom's by herself because I'm a
scheduled f be with my dad or vice versa. Is
actually raises their cortisol levels. And we've talked about high
(08:37):
cortisol levels in the body increases inflammation, increases the risk
for autoimmune disease, cardiovascular disease, certain cancers, and dementia down
the road. So you as a parent being in this conflict,
exposing your kids to this conflict and not keeping your
crap together, especially over the holiday season, you are exposing
(08:58):
your child not just to the short term effects of
themselves feeling anxious, depressed, and all the things that come
with mental illness, but potentially downstream consequences that will affect
their physical health.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, that's true. I mean I don't see it in
the physical context, but I definitely see it in the
emotional and psychological context because parents are then coming to me.
The clients are coming to me talking about what's going
on with their kids at home and how one child's
reacted to something, and the anxiety and depression are definitely
I feel like at an all time high in the
divorce process itself, but particularly during the holidays, because I
(09:33):
have that guild all of a sudden, you know, you're
trying to explain to them, They're going to have a
great time at Grandma Jane's house, but you're going to
Grandma Jane's house whose dad's you know, mom, And you're
gonna be with your paternal side of the family, And
don't worry about me and Mom, I'll just you know,
be with some other maybe my best friend or maybe
a cousin or a different relative, and kids see that
and they feel it, right because especially in those first
(09:55):
couple of years where it's different, a lot of times
they don't like change, right, They wanted to stay the same.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I don't like change personally, I don't even but yeah,
I definitely think kids you will see their anxiety level rise.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And our children are smart, they know and they feed
off of their parents, so they feed off of you.
So if you're anxious and you're presenting something to them
in an anxious way, they're going to pick up on that.
So the best thing you can do is really just
stay positive and whatever the news is that you're delivering. Right,
this is how we're going to share the holiday this year.
You're going to stay with me for Christmas Eve, You're
going to go with data on Christmas Day. Everybody's going
(10:33):
to have a great time. This is what I'm thinking.
Or maybe bring in a new tradition. I always like
to give that as an example, like, you know what,
the holiday is going to be different this year, but
we're going to have a new tradition and we're going
to whatever it is, go for a train ride or
go go.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
For a train and ride well out.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Here work with well. No, I don't mean a train
ride to see Santa in my head and what came out.
We're two different things, like they Especially where we live
in our area, there are you know, visits with Sanzo
where you have canty for the younger kids. Maybe for
the older kids it's something different. Maybe you go see
the rock hats in New York, sitting like right like,
or go for tea or something.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
These are all things that we text each other we
should be doing, but if we just find time.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
You don't have time, you're listening to Wellness and mass.
We'll be right back with more. The way that I
see it, though, is fake it till you.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Make it okay.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
You need to put on a strong crin in front
of your kids. Honestly, sometimes I feel overwhelmed with work,
with the house stuffy, we have renovations going on.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But you need to fake it for your kid's sake.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
If you need to get your kids off to whether
they're going with another parent, if you're going through a divorce,
or if you're still just at home. When you are
with your kids, you need to put on that brae face,
cry in your pillow, alone, alone, screen, call your friend, bent,
whatever you need to do, journal, pray, exercise, whatever you
need to do, But do not pass that stress onto
(11:59):
your kids because their brains, their body are not equipped
to handle these stress emotions.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
And when we're talking about the whole Make America Healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Again movement, it starts out in childhood, and the stresses
they're exposed to in childhood will stay with them.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
It leads to overeating, leads to metabolic disorder, and all
of these negative things. And so we as the parent,
we have to put an end to it if we
want to actually get our kids to a healthier place
physically and mentally.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Absolutely, you as a parent or the backbone, no matter what,
and you lead by example and your kids will follow.
And you're absolutely right with everything you're saying about how
it starts at home, right to make your kids physically
and emotionally healthy. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And you know the good news is the majority, I mean,
you know better than I do.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Overwhelmingly kids do okay after divorce. Divorce doesn't necessarily mean
the end of the world.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Absolutely, divorce is common.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
There are very legitimate reasons for people to consider divorce.
Do I think people get divorce more than necessary?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I do. That is just a personal opinion.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I think some people go through their little midlife crisis,
they need a little bit extra attention.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
They are not really good at communicating with their spouses.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Do I think that.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
People should work on their marriages a little bit more, Yes,
I do. Yes, I do. That's a personal opinion.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
I think we've got a comfortable with divorce, where perhaps
a few decades ago it was more taboo, and now
that it's I don't want to call divorce mainstream because
that seems the.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Cool thing to do, but it's not right.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
That's the goal is not to be divorced. You want
to stay married forever with the person you love, and
you have all these great things about raising a family together.
But yeah, I do think that we need to work
on our marriages. But there are many cases where people
do end up in divorce, and that's okay too, right.
I mean, there are a lot of legitimate reasons and
I see it every day, but the focus always needs
to remain on your kids. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I think what happens to a lot of people are
they're so focused and caught up in their selves during
their divorce that they're like, all these things that I'm
going to get to do.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
But at the end of the day, you decided to.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Have children, bring children into this world, and you need
to still remain in the back seat because it's your
kids are now the most important thing. The good news is,
you know, the majority of kids are going to be
just fine even with divorce, as long as you know
they already want, they already feel like, they internalize their
parental emotions.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
They have that fear of abandonment, yes, and pressure to
choose sides, and sometimes they're angry.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I mean so and I really see it. Posts COVID
the amount of children in divorce that are getting mental
health services, which is fine. They're in therapy. Everybody you
know has the ability to take the kids and have
them in therapy for anxiety, depression, whatever the case may be.
Kids need time to process, and they need to process
in a healthy way, and sometimes especially if that's hard
(14:44):
as a parent, right, make sure that they're seeing a
professional that can help them to get through those moments
and then they'll move on from it because the kids
are resilient, you know. After the divorce, it's really getting
through that change, because everything is to step towards a
brighter future for them and making sure that their best
interests are that you're priority, right. I mean that's why
(15:05):
I really tell clients all the time. As long as
you are parent focused and your children are the priority,
this is going to end up. Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Can I ask you a question that you can plead
the fifth too? And I won't be a friend of
coul silly friends?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Do you think too many parents are putting their kids
into therapy as a means of I don't want to
say laziness, but I will say laziness on the parent's part,
meaning parents don't want to put in the work to
actually sit down and have these conversations and really feel
the feels with their kids, and they would rather just
send them to a therapist, even though therapists obviously is
(15:38):
trained professional they know exactly what to do, what to
talk about in these moments. But is it a little
bit of a cop out to the parent saying you
are not focusing and you are not working with your
child on the emotions and making sure there's some stability.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Okay, so that's a great question. I won't plead the fifth,
I'll answer. I think for me, I see it as
more fear based. I get what you're saying that it
could be a cop out. I feel that parents have
so much information and sometimes they don't want to screw
up their kid because like you're just going to go
with therapy and let a professional figure it out because
I don't have the tools to do this, which I
think is an okay answer to recognize what your own
(16:13):
limits are, right, Like, if you are having a problem
processing what's happening right and now somehow you have to
be the sole person that your child is talking to.
That's not always a good thing. It's okay to have
a professional who's trained and could meet a child at
their level right to talk about those issues and give
them techniques to process what's going on. That doesn't mean
(16:35):
I don't think that what you're saying happens. I do
think that that happens as well, But in my professional experience,
I don't see that as often as it's coming either
from fear like hands off, I don't know what to
do here, or just an acknowledgment or a self awareness,
which I think is a really healthy response that I
don't have the tools to get you through this the
best way, and because I want the best for you,
(16:57):
I'm going to bring the mental health people in and
you know, get you on a path.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Okay, I mean fair enough, you know, I think that
kind of what we're both saying is focusing on the
child and making sure that they're okay and really making
sure that their emotions are regulated. There aren't the ups
and the downs, especially heading into the holidays. It's better
to be a little bit more even keel. That's probably
one of the best predictors of how well they're going
(17:21):
to do, not just in the short term during their
childhood life, but as they go on and what their
understanding of relationships are.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean that's part of raising a child.
You want them to have and see healthy relationships. Right.
That's why I always say it's not such a bad
thing if people are getting divorced, right, because you rather
raise your children to see what healthy love looks like, right,
and keeping that as your focus with them, There's not
(17:50):
going to be a bad outcome. They're going to be okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Do you have any twenty twenty six aspirations goals? What
are you looking for in twenty twenty six?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Wow? That's a loaded question in question, what am I
looking We're in twenty twenty six a happy and healthy
family and friends. I'm looking to get a little bit
more structure over my own time so and I can
do some of the things that we complain, for example,
that we never get to do. And I have some
fitness goals, and I loved your podcast a couple of
(18:19):
weeks ago about trying to do it in December and
taking ten days. I'm not there yet at my ten days.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
It's twenty days in twenty but that's okay, we can
start with ten.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Oh no, no, I can't do twenty days point. But
I was trying to just get the ten days in December,
and I'm almost there, but I'm not there yet. But
that was a great change in mindset, Like get it
done in December, so you're not first going into the
new year already feeling exhausted about all these goals that
you have planned for your you know, physical wellbeing. I
(18:49):
like that.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I like that I'm trying to be forward thinking right
now in December. That's why we're having this conversation. I
want people to start out twenty twenty six as.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Strong and healthy as they are so that we hit
the ground running.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
My takeaway here just to kind of recap the last
couple of weeks. Are parents, you need to do your
best at staying emotionally and physically strong for your kids.
Get rid of some of this digital tech. You can
still join me in. I'm not on a social media ban.
I haven't stopped being on social media. I'm still you know,
posting my TV segments and posting the podcast. But if
you see me, I'm not interacting with people as much.
(19:22):
You know why, because I'm really trying to decrease the
amount of time I pick up that phone and I
click because every time I do that, it's hitting the
dopamine in my brain. And I don't want my phone
to release my feel good hormones. I want exercise, seeing
my kids, my dogs, my chickens, my friends. That's where
I want my dopamine from. Those are healthy sources of dopamine,
(19:44):
not my phone. And the less I do, my kids
are seeing that. And as we head into the holiday,
a lot of people have non traditional families.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I think one of the biggest things you heard.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Angela say it don't trash talk the other parent.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And I'm not just talking about.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
People who are divorced by the way, married people were
probably some of the worst at that. Okay, I absolutely
you know one thing I say to my kids all
the time. You know where you get that from, right,
And it's not me.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
That's probably not the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
She'd probably tell me I shouldn't do that, but we
all know it's true. You know, no legal talk in
front of the kids. Don't talk about some of the
conflict stuff at work, stuff, whatever's happening. Maybe you just
don't have those conversations. I like open conversations with my kids,
but maybe I'm a little too open. My oldest son
said to me, you know that I would talk about
cancer as though it's like running to the store. And
(20:33):
he's right, but that's because that's my daily life and
you have to kind of think about what you're bringing
into your home and.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
How that impacts. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And lastly, no guilt based emotional dumping. No woe is
me this holiday season to the kids.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Absolutely not. And also I think that sometimes like right now,
just as a single pair, right with the holidays and
we're talking about all the stress of everything. So I
will now carve out like thirty minutes before I go
to bed at night to make a list of all
the things that I didn't do today that.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I'm not on your phone. You're not on your phone
thirty minutes before I am writing this.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
In my old school, I have colored pens and sticky
notes and all different colors. I have a rainbow of
sticky notes, and I just make notes to myself yes,
and I like to do it. I actually find this
cathartic to write it down and stev typing, because at
the end of the day, I don't want to be
on my phone. I don't want to look at a screen.
You know, our jobs all day we're looking at screens,
we're talking to people, but a lot of it is
(21:28):
computer having a phone having and I don't want to
be on tech. Do you I actually have like an
aversion at night to tech. I don't want to be
on it.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Do you know why I like the writing the list
before bed. I've talked about this before, is because if
we lay in bed and we have so many things
happening still in our brain, it's really hard for us
to have to sleep. But if you actually physically remove
them from your brain by writing it down, you're now
allowing your brain to just unplug and say, and now
it's time for bed.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
One hundred percent is that physical act of getting it
out of your brain and writing it down. So I
especially doing on the holidays, but really my whole life
every day, making lists atnight and then I try aim
you know, best intentions for the next day, but hopefully
within the week. But it does make me feel better.
I feel like a release of Okay, at least I'm
organized when I wake up in the morning, I know
(22:12):
what the priorities are and what needs to get knocked
out first.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Angelas Kafiri, family law attorney in New Jersey. You can
see her on Fox and Friends occasionally. She does a
lot of parent panels. Where else can people find you?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
People can find me on Instagram and social I'm on
Instagram and.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
What's your law firm?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
My law firm is Jacobs Burger out in MORRISTOWNEW Jersey,
So Jacobsburger dot com. You can find me there and
my emails there. If anybody who has any questions or.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, I hope you don't need a divorce, but if
you do need a divorce, she's actually pretty insightful and
actually you know what she is.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
She's not just about divorce.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
She talks to people about parenting and what's right for
the family. Absolutely, she actually is a therapist in her own.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Self without a license.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
All right, guys, thanks so much for listening to Wellness
on MASS. I'm doctor Nicole Saffire. If you can hold
it together for the next three weeks few weeks for
your kids, it's the best thing possible get yourselves and
your families through the holiday season. It really is a
time of being together, being grateful. Physical and mental health
are incredibly important, but it all.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Starts with you, the parent.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So however you're doing, that's how your kids are doing,
and let's do everything we can to keep our kids healthy.
Thanks for listening to Wellness on MASS on iHeartRadio or
wherever you get your podcasts, and I'll see you next time.
Welcome to Wellness on Mass.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm doctor Nicole Saffire, and we have been talking all
about preparing for the Qualiday season here on Wellness un Mass.
We've been talking about what we as parents can do
trying to get our kids off of digital tech, what
we can be doing for ourselves in terms of preparing
for the new year physically and mentally. But one of
the things that I really wanted to kind of dive
(00:25):
deep into is another aspect of making sure that our
kids are okay. I figured for this conversation the best
guess is actually my best friend.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm going to be bringing her in just a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
But it's really interesting because you know, both of us,
we have very heavy jobs. I am looking for cancer
every single day. I diagnose cancer, and I see people
when they have now had.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
A devastating diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
She is a family law attorney and she is with
people during some of the most stressful times of their
entire life. And so while I can talk until I'm
blue in the face all about the devastation and its
toll physical health can take on an individual and a family,
I wanted to bring Angela into this conversation, especially as
(01:10):
we head into the holiday season talking about family dynamics,
kids and what we as parents can be doing to
supporting our kids. As we know, forty to fifty percent
of all us marriages maybe even more and in divorce
and nearly half involved children. So kids are affected. Holiday
season stress is high. So let's dive in Angela. I
(01:32):
am so happy that you are joining us on wellness
a Mass today.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome, Thank you, thanks for having me here.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay, so give a quick little blurb. Who are you
and why are you here today?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I am here because I'm one of your closest and
dearest friends. This is said. Also, I am a family
law attorney in New Jersey, a practice all throughout the state,
but mostly in Northern New Jersey. I've been practicing for
over twenty five years, and I deal with a lot
of high conflict sitting and parenting time issues. And I
know you want to talk to you a little bit
about children and prioritizing them during the holidays and how
(02:06):
hard it is for intact families, single parent households, parents
going through perhaps a divorce or something else, and so
I figured we could talk about it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, and you and I both have unique histories or
life experiences in the sense that we both have or
are single parents. I was a single parent at a
very young age. I think everyone kind of knows my history.
I had a son when I was in high school.
I was eighteen years old, and I was a single
parent until I met my now husband, so when I
was in medical school. So I had about a decade
(02:38):
of my life of being a single parent. And your
current situation is you are also a single parent. Talk
to me a little bit about what it's like being
a single parent.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Well, you're taking on all the roles as a single parent.
I mean, that's the easiest way to say it. I
have an only child, and I always find remarkable with
single parents who have one, two, three kids. I have
my hands full just with the one. She's just entering
into her teen years, and you know, we have a
lot going on every day. We are worried about, as
(03:09):
you know, a single parent, our single mom, meal planning, breakfast, lunch, dinner.
School academics. Are they on their subjects? Are they getting
ready for all the tests and quizzes? They just had
that conversation today. When they're out from school, we're home,
We're taking care of them, figuring out how to manage
our own jobs and how we're going to be away
from what we're supposed to be doing right to keep
(03:30):
paying the bills because we're also the sole provider in
our single family, you know, in our sole parent household.
So it's a lot of responsibility, and I feel like,
especially during the holidays, it gets compounded because then you're addressing,
you know, all of the fun stuff that you want
the kids to have, plus all the responsibilities that still
didn't go away.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Now do you find that, especially during the holiday season,
there's extra pressure on you in the sense that you know,
we talk about how, oh, well, the holiday season is
all about celebrating and togetherness, but there can come some
negative emotions with it as well. I mean, there is
this concept of togetherness and family, and if you don't
have a traditional family unit, does this put some pressure
(04:10):
on you as well?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I think it, yeah. I mean, honestly, I do think
that it comes and goes. It's not like a constant,
overarching theme of life or anything, but particularly during the holidays,
where you want the best for your kids and you
want them to have all great things and all great experiences,
and then you're worried that maybe you're not doing enough,
(04:32):
or do they feel different when they're hearing about their
friends who are traveling together with brothers and sisters and
cousins and moms and dads or you know, whatever the
case may be, in their family unit. And like I said,
I have an only child, so we have a much
smaller family. It's just us. But the flip side of
that is that we're very close and she gets to
(04:53):
have the benefit of my undivided attention all the time,
and we do a lot of fun things together. So
I think as parents, particularly as single parents, we give
ourselves like a guilt complex, Like we feel the guilt,
and I don't know that our kids are necessarily feeling
that or seeing it unless we're putting it out there
that they're feeling it from us, But otherwise they really
(05:14):
wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
From your professional standpoint, what are some of the things
that you see families maybe they've gone through divorce, they're
going through divorce. What are some of the worst possible
things that parents do in their own actions that impact
their kids.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Talk to their kids about the divorce. So I do
a lot of high conflict work with parents going through
highly contested customer and parenting time issues, and some of
the most significant cases are those where the parents feel
like they need to tell their childs everything, no matter
what they age. You're talking about five year old, a
seven year old, a preteen, a teenager, and they are
(05:53):
now in the process of their parents' conflict. And that's
so unhealthy for them emotionally, psychologically, and even physically because
they're just ramifications from that. Their brains aren't even developed, really,
and you can talk to that, right is the metal
we have and you have right, Their brains aren't developed
to process the amount of information that sometimes coming at
them in the way it's coming at them. But to
(06:14):
have kids during the divorce process. In the divorce, that's
the one thing that you want to try and avoid
at all times. Right, keep the issues between you and
your co parent, try and be as civil as you can,
Try and communicate because without communicating, right, you're not going
to make plans. Who has got Christmas Eve? Who has Honikah?
(06:36):
Are they overlapping? Not this year but other years you
have Christmas and a honka falling on the same year.
Some parents fight about who wants Christmas Eve, who wants
Christmas day. Who wants New Year's Eve? Who wants New
Year's Day? You don't want that conflict to have your
child or your children feel that. You just want them
to enjoy the experience and enjoy the holiday knowing that
they have the love and support of both of their parents.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Well, I mean, at the end of the day, it's
like parents.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Kids don't need perfect parents, but they need parents who
can keep their crap together and be responsible.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
One of the things that I talk about with the
parents in the whole digital tech and the phone and
the social media, I'm like, listen, lead by example, you
want your kids off social media, but that you're sitting
there scrolling like on your phone doing whatever. So especially
if you're trying to emulate for your kids a healthy
place mentally, if you're in this conflict and you're involving
(07:25):
the kids in it, like going keep it together, guys.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Right, And it's hard. I mean, going through a divorce
is one of the most emotional psychological things you're going
to deal with in your life. Right. It's you thought
that you had one vision of how your life was
going to be and all of a sudden it's upended
and it's completely different. As a parent and as an attorney,
I can relate to what a parent is going through
in that worst process, but you have to have the
(07:49):
self discipline to keep it together for your kids.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Absolutely, some stats that I pulled for this interview er
visits for pediatric mental health crises increase about thirty percent
during the hall season wo and children exposed to high
parental conflict, parents that are fighting two to three higher
risk of having depression. And even that, you know, we
talk about depression, and some people kind of blow off
(08:13):
mental illnesses up.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
They're just sad or oh, they're just bored or whatever
it is.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
But no, these are actual physiological changes that are happening
inside of a kid. You know, a kid who is
stressed out from the tension with their parents or the
fighting or the guilt that kids, you know, take on themselves,
like well, now my mom's by herself because I'm a
scheduled f be with my dad or vice versa. Is
actually raises their cortisol levels. And we've talked about high
(08:37):
cortisol levels in the body increases inflammation, increases the risk
for autoimmune disease, cardiovascular disease, certain cancers, and dementia down
the road. So you as a parent being in this conflict,
exposing your kids to this conflict and not keeping your
crap together, especially over the holiday season, you are exposing
(08:58):
your child not just to the short term effects of
themselves feeling anxious, depressed, and all the things that come
with mental illness, but potentially downstream consequences that will affect
their physical health.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, that's true. I mean I don't see it in
the physical context, but I definitely see it in the
emotional and psychological context because parents are then coming to me.
The clients are coming to me talking about what's going
on with their kids at home and how one child's
reacted to something, and the anxiety and depression are definitely
I feel like at an all time high in the
divorce process itself, but particularly during the holidays, because I
(09:33):
have that guild all of a sudden, you know, you're
trying to explain to them, They're going to have a
great time at Grandma Jane's house, but you're going to
Grandma Jane's house whose dad's you know, mom, And you're
gonna be with your paternal side of the family, And
don't worry about me and Mom, I'll just you know,
be with some other maybe my best friend or maybe
a cousin or a different relative, and kids see that
and they feel it, right because especially in those first
(09:55):
couple of years where it's different, a lot of times
they don't like change, right, They wanted to stay the same.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I don't like change personally, I don't even but yeah,
I definitely think kids you will see their anxiety level rise.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And our children are smart, they know and they feed
off of their parents, so they feed off of you.
So if you're anxious and you're presenting something to them
in an anxious way, they're going to pick up on that.
So the best thing you can do is really just
stay positive and whatever the news is that you're delivering. Right,
this is how we're going to share the holiday this year.
You're going to stay with me for Christmas Eve, You're
going to go with data on Christmas Day. Everybody's going
(10:33):
to have a great time. This is what I'm thinking.
Or maybe bring in a new tradition. I always like
to give that as an example, like, you know what,
the holiday is going to be different this year, but
we're going to have a new tradition and we're going
to whatever it is, go for a train ride or
go go.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
For a train and ride well out.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Here work with well. No, I don't mean a train
ride to see Santa in my head and what came out.
We're two different things, like they Especially where we live
in our area, there are you know, visits with Sanzo
where you have canty for the younger kids. Maybe for
the older kids it's something different. Maybe you go see
the rock hats in New York, sitting like right like,
or go for tea or something.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
These are all things that we text each other we
should be doing, but if we just find time.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
You don't have time, you're listening to Wellness and mass.
We'll be right back with more. The way that I
see it, though, is fake it till you.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Make it okay.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
You need to put on a strong crin in front
of your kids. Honestly, sometimes I feel overwhelmed with work,
with the house stuffy, we have renovations going on.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But you need to fake it for your kid's sake.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
If you need to get your kids off to whether
they're going with another parent, if you're going through a divorce,
or if you're still just at home. When you are
with your kids, you need to put on that brae face,
cry in your pillow, alone, alone, screen, call your friend, bent,
whatever you need to do, journal, pray, exercise, whatever you
need to do, But do not pass that stress onto
(11:59):
your kids because their brains, their body are not equipped
to handle these stress emotions.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
And when we're talking about the whole Make America Healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Again movement, it starts out in childhood, and the stresses
they're exposed to in childhood will stay with them.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
It leads to overeating, leads to metabolic disorder, and all
of these negative things. And so we as the parent,
we have to put an end to it if we
want to actually get our kids to a healthier place
physically and mentally.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Absolutely, you as a parent or the backbone, no matter what,
and you lead by example and your kids will follow.
And you're absolutely right with everything you're saying about how
it starts at home, right to make your kids physically
and emotionally healthy. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And you know the good news is the majority, I mean,
you know better than I do.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Overwhelmingly kids do okay after divorce. Divorce doesn't necessarily mean
the end of the world.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Absolutely, divorce is common.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
There are very legitimate reasons for people to consider divorce.
Do I think people get divorce more than necessary?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I do. That is just a personal opinion.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I think some people go through their little midlife crisis,
they need a little bit extra attention.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
They are not really good at communicating with their spouses.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Do I think that.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
People should work on their marriages a little bit more, Yes,
I do. Yes, I do. That's a personal opinion.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
I think we've got a comfortable with divorce, where perhaps
a few decades ago it was more taboo, and now
that it's I don't want to call divorce mainstream because
that seems the.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Cool thing to do, but it's not right.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
That's the goal is not to be divorced. You want
to stay married forever with the person you love, and
you have all these great things about raising a family together.
But yeah, I do think that we need to work
on our marriages. But there are many cases where people
do end up in divorce, and that's okay too, right.
I mean, there are a lot of legitimate reasons and
I see it every day, but the focus always needs
to remain on your kids. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I think what happens to a lot of people are
they're so focused and caught up in their selves during
their divorce that they're like, all these things that I'm
going to get to do.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
But at the end of the day, you decided to.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Have children, bring children into this world, and you need
to still remain in the back seat because it's your
kids are now the most important thing. The good news is,
you know, the majority of kids are going to be
just fine even with divorce, as long as you know
they already want, they already feel like, they internalize their
parental emotions.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
They have that fear of abandonment, yes, and pressure to
choose sides, and sometimes they're angry.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I mean so and I really see it. Posts COVID
the amount of children in divorce that are getting mental
health services, which is fine. They're in therapy. Everybody you
know has the ability to take the kids and have
them in therapy for anxiety, depression, whatever the case may be.
Kids need time to process, and they need to process
in a healthy way, and sometimes especially if that's hard
(14:44):
as a parent, right, make sure that they're seeing a
professional that can help them to get through those moments
and then they'll move on from it because the kids
are resilient, you know. After the divorce, it's really getting
through that change, because everything is to step towards a
brighter future for them and making sure that their best
interests are that you're priority, right. I mean that's why
(15:05):
I really tell clients all the time. As long as
you are parent focused and your children are the priority,
this is going to end up. Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Can I ask you a question that you can plead
the fifth too? And I won't be a friend of
coul silly friends?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Do you think too many parents are putting their kids
into therapy as a means of I don't want to
say laziness, but I will say laziness on the parent's part,
meaning parents don't want to put in the work to
actually sit down and have these conversations and really feel
the feels with their kids, and they would rather just
send them to a therapist, even though therapists obviously is
(15:38):
trained professional they know exactly what to do, what to
talk about in these moments. But is it a little
bit of a cop out to the parent saying you
are not focusing and you are not working with your
child on the emotions and making sure there's some stability.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Okay, so that's a great question. I won't plead the fifth,
I'll answer. I think for me, I see it as
more fear based. I get what you're saying that it
could be a cop out. I feel that parents have
so much information and sometimes they don't want to screw
up their kid because like you're just going to go
with therapy and let a professional figure it out because
I don't have the tools to do this, which I
think is an okay answer to recognize what your own
(16:13):
limits are, right, Like, if you are having a problem
processing what's happening right and now somehow you have to
be the sole person that your child is talking to.
That's not always a good thing. It's okay to have
a professional who's trained and could meet a child at
their level right to talk about those issues and give
them techniques to process what's going on. That doesn't mean
(16:35):
I don't think that what you're saying happens. I do
think that that happens as well, But in my professional experience,
I don't see that as often as it's coming either
from fear like hands off, I don't know what to
do here, or just an acknowledgment or a self awareness,
which I think is a really healthy response that I
don't have the tools to get you through this the
best way, and because I want the best for you,
(16:57):
I'm going to bring the mental health people in and
you know, get you on a path.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Okay, I mean fair enough, you know, I think that
kind of what we're both saying is focusing on the
child and making sure that they're okay and really making
sure that their emotions are regulated. There aren't the ups
and the downs, especially heading into the holidays. It's better
to be a little bit more even keel. That's probably
one of the best predictors of how well they're going
(17:21):
to do, not just in the short term during their
childhood life, but as they go on and what their
understanding of relationships are.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean that's part of raising a child.
You want them to have and see healthy relationships. Right.
That's why I always say it's not such a bad
thing if people are getting divorced, right, because you rather
raise your children to see what healthy love looks like, right,
and keeping that as your focus with them, There's not
(17:50):
going to be a bad outcome. They're going to be okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Do you have any twenty twenty six aspirations goals? What
are you looking for in twenty twenty six?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Wow? That's a loaded question in question, what am I
looking We're in twenty twenty six a happy and healthy
family and friends. I'm looking to get a little bit
more structure over my own time so and I can
do some of the things that we complain, for example,
that we never get to do. And I have some
fitness goals, and I loved your podcast a couple of
(18:19):
weeks ago about trying to do it in December and
taking ten days. I'm not there yet at my ten days.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
It's twenty days in twenty but that's okay, we can
start with ten.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Oh no, no, I can't do twenty days point. But
I was trying to just get the ten days in December,
and I'm almost there, but I'm not there yet. But
that was a great change in mindset, Like get it
done in December, so you're not first going into the
new year already feeling exhausted about all these goals that
you have planned for your you know, physical wellbeing. I
(18:49):
like that.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I like that I'm trying to be forward thinking right
now in December. That's why we're having this conversation. I
want people to start out twenty twenty six as.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Strong and healthy as they are so that we hit
the ground running.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
My takeaway here just to kind of recap the last
couple of weeks. Are parents, you need to do your
best at staying emotionally and physically strong for your kids.
Get rid of some of this digital tech. You can
still join me in. I'm not on a social media ban.
I haven't stopped being on social media. I'm still you know,
posting my TV segments and posting the podcast. But if
you see me, I'm not interacting with people as much.
(19:22):
You know why, because I'm really trying to decrease the
amount of time I pick up that phone and I
click because every time I do that, it's hitting the
dopamine in my brain. And I don't want my phone
to release my feel good hormones. I want exercise, seeing
my kids, my dogs, my chickens, my friends. That's where
I want my dopamine from. Those are healthy sources of dopamine,
(19:44):
not my phone. And the less I do, my kids
are seeing that. And as we head into the holiday,
a lot of people have non traditional families.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I think one of the biggest things you heard.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Angela say it don't trash talk the other parent.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And I'm not just talking about.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
People who are divorced by the way, married people were
probably some of the worst at that. Okay, I absolutely
you know one thing I say to my kids all
the time. You know where you get that from, right,
And it's not me.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
That's probably not the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
She'd probably tell me I shouldn't do that, but we
all know it's true. You know, no legal talk in
front of the kids. Don't talk about some of the
conflict stuff at work, stuff, whatever's happening. Maybe you just
don't have those conversations. I like open conversations with my kids,
but maybe I'm a little too open. My oldest son
said to me, you know that I would talk about
cancer as though it's like running to the store. And
(20:33):
he's right, but that's because that's my daily life and
you have to kind of think about what you're bringing
into your home and.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
How that impacts. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And lastly, no guilt based emotional dumping. No woe is
me this holiday season to the kids.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Absolutely not. And also I think that sometimes like right now,
just as a single pair, right with the holidays and
we're talking about all the stress of everything. So I
will now carve out like thirty minutes before I go
to bed at night to make a list of all
the things that I didn't do today that.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I'm not on your phone. You're not on your phone
thirty minutes before I am writing this.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
In my old school, I have colored pens and sticky
notes and all different colors. I have a rainbow of
sticky notes, and I just make notes to myself yes,
and I like to do it. I actually find this
cathartic to write it down and stev typing, because at
the end of the day, I don't want to be
on my phone. I don't want to look at a screen.
You know, our jobs all day we're looking at screens,
we're talking to people, but a lot of it is
(21:28):
computer having a phone having and I don't want to
be on tech. Do you I actually have like an
aversion at night to tech. I don't want to be
on it.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Do you know why I like the writing the list
before bed. I've talked about this before, is because if
we lay in bed and we have so many things
happening still in our brain, it's really hard for us
to have to sleep. But if you actually physically remove
them from your brain by writing it down, you're now
allowing your brain to just unplug and say, and now
it's time for bed.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
One hundred percent is that physical act of getting it
out of your brain and writing it down. So I
especially doing on the holidays, but really my whole life
every day, making lists atnight and then I try aim
you know, best intentions for the next day, but hopefully
within the week. But it does make me feel better.
I feel like a release of Okay, at least I'm
organized when I wake up in the morning, I know
(22:12):
what the priorities are and what needs to get knocked
out first.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Angelas Kafiri, family law attorney in New Jersey. You can
see her on Fox and Friends occasionally. She does a
lot of parent panels. Where else can people find you?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
People can find me on Instagram and social I'm on
Instagram and.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
What's your law firm?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
My law firm is Jacobs Burger out in MORRISTOWNEW Jersey,
So Jacobsburger dot com. You can find me there and
my emails there. If anybody who has any questions or.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, I hope you don't need a divorce, but if
you do need a divorce, she's actually pretty insightful and
actually you know what she is.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
She's not just about divorce.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
She talks to people about parenting and what's right for
the family. Absolutely, she actually is a therapist in her own.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Self without a license.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
All right, guys, thanks so much for listening to Wellness
on MASS. I'm doctor Nicole Saffire. If you can hold
it together for the next three weeks few weeks for
your kids, it's the best thing possible get yourselves and
your families through the holiday season. It really is a
time of being together, being grateful. Physical and mental health
are incredibly important, but it all.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Starts with you, the parent.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So however you're doing, that's how your kids are doing,
and let's do everything we can to keep our kids healthy.
Thanks for listening to Wellness on MASS on iHeartRadio or
wherever you get your podcasts, and I'll see you next time.
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