June 3, 2025 • 37 mins
In this conversation, Dr. Saphier interviews childhood development specialist Niki Robbins about the rising rates of anxiety and ADHD in children, particularly in the wake of COVID-19. Niki discusses the importance of emotional regulation and mindfulness, providing practical tools for parents to help their children manage anxiety. The conversation also touches on the role of medication, the significance of connection, and when to seek professional help. Wellness Unmasked is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Friday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Wellness on Mass. I'm doctor Nicole Sapphire, your host,
mom and forever truth seeker, and today I want to
dive into something really important to all of us. I'm
sure you have heard the headlines or seen them a
little bit about the recent MAHA report that came out
put out by Secretary Kennedy, the HHS Secretary. I was
met with a lot of fanfare. A lot of people
(00:23):
were excited about it because he made a lot of
promises before he dropped out of his own presidential campaign
race to join President Trump. But he has been talking
about something that for parents', physicians, just humans we all
should be interested in, and that's chronic illness in our country. Now.
I don't want to get into the entire report because
(00:44):
that is more than just one episode, but there was
one aspect of the report that I thought was really
interesting that I absolutely wanted to touch on. One of
it was talking about the rise in ADHD and anxiety
diagnose in our children, and more specifically about how much
we're actually medicating children and not just medicating children, because obviously,
(01:08):
if there is a proven benefit to treating someone, you
want to do that. If you have good outcomes and
well documented benefits, then what is the concern. Well, the
problem is the benefits of some of these medications, especially
in children, sometimes have more risks than even benefits, and
(01:29):
the overall benefit or success isn't the best documented. So
I think it's a really interesting point that they're bringing up. Now,
mind you, what this report was was just pointing out problems.
They threw out a whole bunch of fancy statistics, some
of which I could probably argue for, and a few
I could argue maybe against. Maybe there is a little
(01:50):
bit of misrepresentation of some of the data, but overall,
the concept of what they're saying holds true. And it's
not new. This is something that we've got I have
known for decades. This is just the first time that
our federal institutions are saying we're going to do something
about this. So right now they're pointing out the problems,
(02:11):
they have a couple of months to turn those problems
into some solutions that are actionable by the government. Now,
obviously that does take a little bit of a pause,
because we want to make sure we don't have so
much government oversight and intrusion. We already have a ton
in the doctor patient relationship. We don't want there to
be even more. But I always think that doing deep
(02:34):
dives and looking into the data, especially when it comes
to our children, is very important. So let's talk about
the basic facts. The MAHA report highlights a significant increase
in ADHD diagnoses among children, with over three point four
million currently on medications for it. So the report expresses
(02:55):
concerns over possibly over prescribing of these stim mulent medications
and other psychiatric drunks for children, suggesting that this trend
may actually be contributing to a broader public health issues.
So when we talk about the over prescribing, well, what
are the numbers? Well, when you say ADHD medication. So
(03:18):
ADHD is attention deficit hyperactivity disorders. Now this diagnosis, just
like autism, spectrum has broadened over the years. So while
we see a rise in the incidents or the diagnosis
of it, we also have to know that we have
a broader diagnostic criteria so more people fit in to
the diagnoses. So the medications commonly used for ADHD are stimulants,
(03:43):
like with the names of Adderall and Ridlin. Now these
have seen a dramatic rise in use between two thousand
and seven and twenty sixteen, ADHD diagnoses in children increased
by forty three percent. That's according to JAMA Network. This
isn't just you know, RFK Junior saying something on the fly.
(04:03):
This is actually documented in scientific literature. And in twenty twenty,
about six point one million children in the United States alone,
that's nearly ten percent of all kids in the United
States have been given the diagnosis of ADHD, with sixty
two percent of them taking medication. So about ten percent
(04:25):
of our children have been diagnosed with ADHD and nearly
two thirds of them are actually on medications for it.
And this is from the CDC. Prescriptions for stimulants among
adolescents rose by nearly twenty five percent between twenty twenty
and twenty twenty one, with the biggest spike scene in
teenage girls. Well, this is based off of a CDC
(04:47):
report that came out in twenty twenty three. I don't
think anybody is surprised by this. What happened during that
time that was COVID. We had data way early on
during COVID. By August twenty twenty, Fair Health actually out
reports showing a rise in kids and adolescents going to
the emergency room, not for broken bones because they weren't
outside playing, but for mental health crises. So we knew
(05:11):
the kids were not okay. They already weren't okay before COVID,
and it's getting much worse since then. And we can
point fingers all we want. It's from the use of technology.
It's social media, it's the bullying, it's COVID, it's all
of these other things. So, in addition to the stimulants
(05:32):
for ADHD, a twenty twenty two study in the Journal
Pediatrics found that antidepressant prescriptions for adolescents or you know,
kids age twelve to seventeen increased by almost forty percent
from twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen, and that was before COVID.
(05:53):
During the COVID pandemic, there was a dramatic spike in
new antidepressant prescriptions among teenagers again, particularly girls, up over
sixty percent from twenty twenty to twenty twenty one. I'm sorry, guys,
but this is a devastating number. Our kids are not okay,
and we have to take a pause for a second.
(06:16):
What's going on? Yes, there has to do with our
rise in technology. Absolutely, there's also underlying social, environmental, even
dietary issues that may be being overlooked, and maybe we
should be focusing on these a little bit more before
we're jumping in to the medication based solutions. Because the
(06:39):
long term effects of psychiatric medications in developing brains actually
remain quite uncertain and understudied, despite the fact so many
kids are on them. I can say that there are
black box warnings on these medications because they themselves have
a risk of suicide with them. The FDA required the
(07:01):
medications to be putting black box warnings because of an
increased risk of suicide in children and teens taking the medications.
We're giving these kids medications to try and make them
better in a better place mentally, Yet the very medications
we're giving them come with a black box warning of
suicide risk. And when suicide is one of the leading
(07:24):
causes of death for those fifteen to twenty nine globally
and the second leading cause of death for kids ten
to fourteen and fifteen to twenty four in the United States,
this is a problem. Maybe we're giving too many kids
too many medications. Now. I'm not saying we should just
do away with these medications altogether, absolutely not. In fact,
(07:47):
for some families, these medications are complete life savers. They
make a child be able to be successful in school,
successful in after school programs and social activities, and going
on into their professional activities. Sometimes the brain needs help
with medications. It's just the way it is. Our brains
(08:09):
are not all formed the same, but not all every
case is alike. And while one child may truly benefit
from these medications, I guarantee not everyone needs them, certainly
not everyone who's been prescribed them. I am in the
RFK junior camp on this one. I think we're overprescribing
our kids these medications. And is that because the parents
(08:31):
are rushing to the doctors to get the medication. Is
it because the doctors are rushing to prescribe. I don't
think there's anything nefarious going on. I think parents are
worried for their children. They're probably they've probably exhausted other
things to do. They probably have a friend with a
kid on medication, or maybe a school has approached them
(08:52):
and said you should talk to the doctor about medication.
Someone has put the bug in that family's ear that
maybe my kids should be on medication. And let's be honest,
doctors are overworked these days after the Affordable Care Act,
They're essentially turning over patients like some mass factory, just
(09:15):
over and over again. They don't have time to really
dive deep into all of the intricacies. They don't have
time to educate the families, the patients themselves on things
that they can try and do before they go to medication. Sometimes,
by the time the kid gets to the doctor, so
much time has passed that the kid potentially is getting
(09:36):
kicked out of school, they're failing school, whatever it is.
So the family and the patient are desperate, and the
doctor's like, okay, let's just prescribe medication. And that is
the environment that we're in right now, so I listen.
I am not a child mental health expert by any
stretch of the imagination. I'm just a mom of three kids,
and I observe a lot of children. And yes, I
(09:56):
did go to medical school, but not for this. I
am not. This is not my special but I want
to talk to someone who this is their specialty, and
I want to talk about what, as the parents, can
we be doing to maybe help our children and maybe
help ourselves too, because we all deal with levels of
anxiety and depression throughout our lives. Sometimes they come and go,
(10:16):
sometimes they're with us for life. What are things that
we can do that's scientifically proven to work on us,
not just mentally, but physically as well. So I'm very
excited to have Nicki Robbins, who is a child developmental
specialist with us, who has extensively studied some natural ways
to try and help our children before we introduce medication
(10:37):
to them, because there are potentially some things that we
can do if we're trying to avoid medicating our children.
You're listening to Wellness on Mass, We'll be right back
with more. I'm so excited to bring on our guest,
Nicki Robbins. She's a childhood development specialist. Nikki, thank you
so much for being on Wellness on Mass.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Thank you for having me Nicole.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So, first of all, you know, when I say childhood
development specialists, some people may know what that means, but
a lot of people don't tell us a little bit
about your background.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Okay. I hold an undergraduate degree in child development and
Family Studies, and then I went on to get a
dual masters in early childhood Education and special education. And
in addition, I have two certificate kits that address sort
of emotional regulation and mindfulness and children from kindergarten to
(11:29):
the end of high school to twelfth grade. And for
the past five years I've taught emotional regulation and mindfulness
to kindergarten age children, and I would say my focus
is really helping children and families to build strong emotional
foundations before they get to the point where clinical help
is needed. So just sort of like the simple everyday
(11:51):
things that they're probably already doing, and how they're more
powerful than they realize, and that these small actions can
really help to build a healthy foundation, and then just
sort of understanding this science behind why what they're doing works.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
And so that's one of the things that we're talking
about here today is ADHD diagnoses are on the rye
and rise. Anxiety depressions is all on the rise, not
just an adults, but our kids are feeling it too,
especially since COVID we saw those numbers go up. What
is happening like inside of the child's brain when they
are feeling stressed.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, so when they're feeling anxious or overwhelmed. I'll talk
a little bit about like the structure of the brain,
but very simply this is probably something that everyone has
heard before their brain activates what's called fight flight or
freeze response. And this happens when the part of the
(12:48):
brain it's called the amygdala, which basically acts like an
internal alarm system inside of our brain. It's always scanning
for danger and sending distress signals when something feels safe,
even if that's something is just a big feeling or
a new experience. So I've heard it explained like a
smoke alarm in your house, if you blow out a
(13:10):
candle under your smoke alarm, or if you burn a
piece of toast, the smoke alarm still goes off, right,
So that's what happens with fight or flight, Like your
internal smoke alarm is going off, and it feels the same,
it sounds the same as if you're running out of
a house fire. So once that is activated fight or flight,
(13:30):
it turns on something called the sympathetic nervous system, and
it's basically emergency mode for kids. And what it looks
like physically inside of kids is a racing heart, shallow breathing,
sweaty palms, and I think, most importantly, trouble thinking clearly.
So this is why when a kid is in a
(13:51):
state of panic. We can't reason with them, we can't
logic with them. They're not absorbing our words. So you know,
I remember when I as little, if I was upset,
someone would be like, calm down. It's not really effective
because we don't work.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I'm not if someone tells you to calm down, you
don't just calm down.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Like it's not it's not going to work. So it's
like feeling like you need to escape house fire and
someone just being like, come down, take a deep breath.
And that's basically the prefrontal cortex of our brain is
the part where we use to problem solve, to reason,
(14:32):
to logic. That's where our emotional regulation comes. That's where
our impulse control comes from, and that is shut off
when we are operating from our flight or flight or
like from our amygdala.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Basically, you know, one thing that's interesting because what you're
describing is a lot of like those feelings of anxiety
or anxiousness. But some people are thinking, well, my kid
was diagnosed with ADHD, not anxiety. But the reality is
is we have seen the rise in incidents and diagnosis
of a ADHD, a lot of kids are actually being
misdiagnosed in my opinion of ADHD, because ADHD shares a
(15:07):
lot of symptoms with anxiety, trauma, sleep disorders, and even giftedness.
I mean, there are some children with true ADHD, and
that is you can see it. It runs in families. They
are specific genes that are linked to ADHD, some environmental
factors like prenatal or early brain development like a premature birth,
(15:28):
low birth weight, brain injuries, all of this. But what
you're describing is something that a lot of kids are
experiencing right now. Are these feelings of panic and worry,
and like I feel like our kids are just so
worried right now.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, And I would say the two points there. One
is that there's a lot of overlap between the way
things like ADHD and depression and anxiety present themselves. So
like spot on, they can look exactly like the same thing,
but they may have a different root cause. And then
I would say the second piece of it is that
anxiety wears many masks. So like my early understanding of
(16:07):
anxiety was sort of this like nebishy, complainy, like cannot
handle the world human being, and that it doesn't look
like that in everyone you know, it can look like
a superachiever. It could look like somebody who shows up
to everything early. It could look like somebody who avoids
anything that makes themselves uncomfortable, and their world gets smaller
(16:27):
and smaller. So even in our kids, worry and fear
and anxiety can look very different in all of them.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So you have kind of created an inch that you
have done a lot of research. You're not opposed to
medication in some children and some people, but you really
focus on some tools to calm the brain.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Right, So I would start by saying, like, knowing that
the fight or flight is activated, like what can we
do to calm it? And then I can kind of
give you like a top ten hit list of what
we can do in our homes without medication, without seeking
clinical assistance, to help get up and out of these
(17:14):
kind of situations. And when the brain feels safe again,
this is instead of the sympathetic it's the parasympathetic nervous system,
and it's called rest and digest, not eating digesting, but
like being able to digest what's coming in around us.
Our heart rate slows back down, our breathing slows back down,
(17:36):
and it turns on thinking and connection again so we
want to get our kids from this fight or flight
back into rest and digest. And later on you'll hear
me talk a little bit about the vagus nerve, which
is like a key player in helping that to happen.
It's the longest cranial nerve in the body. It runs
(17:57):
from the brain stem down through the heart, the lungs,
and your gut, and stimulating this nerve is basically telling
your body I'm safe now, I'm safe again. So we
talk more about that when we talk about breathing stuff.
But I'll go into maybe like the top ten tools
and like a little bullet point on each about what's
(18:18):
the science behind it sounds great, And what I would
say to families before I get started is just you know,
when it comes to helping kids with anxiety at home,
you're probably doing more than you realize already. When you
do things like go for a walk, share a laugh,
a tight hug, pause, and breathe, you're literally shaping your
(18:40):
kid's brain for calm and for connection. And a lot
of this stuff is really really simple, tiny actions that
can help them to set the way that they deal
with anxiety going forward. So the first one is just
time and nature or green space. I don't know, Like
if you've ever taken a walk in the woods yourself
(19:00):
or with your kids and there's something like you get
in there and it smells the casater forest and you
just take a deep breath and everything just sort of
calms down. And the science behind that is that trees
actually release something called it's fido byton the sides. I
don't know if I'm getting saying it right. I just
(19:22):
know what it does inside of me. But it's actually
a natural chemical that trees release that lowers our cortisol.
So as strange as it sounds, what the trees are
breathing out actually calms down our own personal stress hormone.
So I mean, I think we innately know something smells great,
but it's smelling great and it's calming us down. And
(19:44):
then the second part is that just being out in
nature boosts our of the brain waves, which are relaxed attention.
So if you ever observe a kid sitting in the forest,
like on a tree stump, staring at something really intently,
that is pure presence and calm, and that is great
for them. The second one is time by the water.
(20:08):
So if you ever, you know, take your kids to
walk by a stream, or by an ocean, or by
a lake, even a pool, looking out a window at water,
and you realize, at some point along the way all
of that your brain has quieted down. Their brain has
quieted down. The rhythm and sound of the water activates
our default mode network.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So the plus that way we hear ocean sounds like
a part of the white noise machine that helps us
sleep too.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yes, yes, yes, exactly. It activates daydreaming, reflecting, It can
calm nervous thoughts. It can certainly calm a screaming baby.
I remember plenty of times turning it and standing in
the bathroom with the shower running. Movement in general, so
not just being outside, but any movement at all is incredible.
(20:56):
That increases dopamine, It increases serotonin. These are the brain
chemicals that regulate our mood and our focus. And then
cross lateral, so crawling, dancing, anything, catching a ball with
different hands just helps us with emotional control. Okay, so
another one, number four. Growing up, I had my mom,
(21:19):
and then I had my best friend's moms like Mom
two and Mom three, and I can remember one of
them saying just splash cold water on your face, and
there's actually some science to it. So splashing cool water
on your face or your wrist activates what's called our
dive reflex and it actually slows down our heart and
calmps our body. So again going back to that vagus nerve,
(21:41):
like if our inner alarm system is going off, we
can't think straight. And so something is simple. As you're
at home, there's some panic going on, like just splashing
cold water on your face or on your wrists. And
this is particularly effective for young children. Anything sensory with
young children in so, even like sucking on a sour
(22:03):
candy or a soothing scent. So there's actually some clinical
trials on the calming effect of lavender oil.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I've seen those. We have them in the hospital. We
did one ourselves at my hospital and we put little
scented patches with lavender and it showed that before biopsies,
those that had the lavender had better experiences. Yeah, and
you know me, I love my natural herbs, specifically lavender.
It's one of them. It's a great calm.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Being on an airplane with two very young children and
someone in front of me same thing, and I think
she must have used a little like peppermint and lavender
oil for her child who was screaming, and it was
just like a sensory experience first of all, changing the situation,
but it also engages some receptors in our brain that
promote relaxation. Another one that I think parents are already
(22:55):
doing that's a great one is just connection with others.
So anxiety can be contagious. So if we have it,
our kids can pick up on it, My dog can
pick up on it, any you know, anybody can get it.
So keeping ourselves calm, I contact, warm tone, touch, like
a firm embrace can help. It's called coregulation. So if
(23:19):
we're calming ourselves down, our kids are calming down with us,
and just that relationship and emotional safety. I have like
two more. One is a little bit bigger than what
we can do at home, but it's acts of service.
So there's a lot of studies around helping others raises
(23:39):
our oxytocin, so it strengthens our sense of belonging to
go out. And it also for kids these days, I
know there's a lot of talk about how much screen
time they're having, and it's sort of isolating and lonely
and going out and doing acts of service combats loneliness
and low self esteem, which can also contribute to anxiety.
(24:02):
Journaling is another one. Just have your kids free right
for five minutes one page. Does not matter what comes
out on the page. It just improves self awareness and
particularly if you can get them to name what they're feeling,
so that just reduces the intensity of what they're feeling.
It's called affect labeling. And the last one is mindfulness techniques.
(24:25):
So these I'll give you two that are really effective.
One is called five four three two one, and it
goes back to the senses again. So if a child
is having panic attack, having trouble separating, anything like that,
you need to calm down their body first. Use five
four three two one in all the senses. So tell
(24:45):
me five things you see, tell me four things you hear,
tell me three things you feel, two things you smell,
and one thing you can touch, And it just takes
them out of that state of perseverating, of continuing to
have this thought over and over again and shifts them
to a different part of their brain. And the second
(25:06):
one is mindful listening, which you can do anywhere. Mindful
looking is like, look around this room and tell me
something you've never seen before. Mindful listening is like stopping
for maybe sixty seconds and listening what's right in front
of you, what's in the room next to you, what's outside,
to the point where they're hearing a bird outside or
a transtation, and again is just interrupting where they are
(25:28):
thinking from and bringing them back into like logic and reasoning.
And then I would say, you know, the one thing
that I didn't say is to avoid things that make
your children feel uncomfortable, which just does.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So isn't it okay sometimes for your kids to feel uncomfortable?
Like you know, my mindset is, I mean, you don't
always want to put them in uncomfortable situations that can
breed like insecurity and as we're talking about anxiety and stuff.
But is it okay for them to be uncomfortable sometimes?
Because the exact opposite of that is which are in
those helicopter parents and our kids are not able to
(26:06):
go out into the world.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yes, exactly. So if they avoid it, it's not growth
for them. It does not allow for real practice of
the tools that they're collecting. These are the moments that
allow them to grow. These are the moments that allow
them to strengthen. And I would say, you know, of
all the things that I listed, like, some work for
some kids, some don't. So it's a chance to practice,
(26:29):
like what works in what situations and what's effective. Avoidance
is basically telling us that we are avoiding it is
making us feel good. But you get you get better
at what you practice, right, So if you avoid it,
you're practicing I can't do what I'm afraid of. And
(26:49):
I think when that happens, their worlds tend to get
smaller and smaller and smaller. So if there's anxiety around
going to a birthday party, they don't go, and then
it's going to a play date with more you know,
it continues to get smaller. So some level of stress
is healthy and it allows us to get outside of
(27:10):
our comfort zone and to grow, and then to practice
what happens when there is anxiety. And there's some lessons
in this I think that kids learn. One of them
is just that it's finite, right, Like these waves of
panic or fear don't last forever. It's a feeling that
comes and then seven minutes later it's gone. And during it,
(27:34):
having an understanding of what works for them gives them
a little bit of sense of control. It doesn't stop
the anxiety, but it gives them control over what's going on.
And the more control, I think, the less occurrence that
you see.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And you said something earlier about the science. You mentioned
the vagus nerve, which you know piques my attention, So
tell me a little bit about you know, they're actually
when people say to you, just breathe, it can be
of not yeah, but they actually might be giving you
some really valid advice if you use it wisely.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Right exactly, So, breathing is one of the fastest ways
to calm down the body, but not all breathing is
created equally. So like when we're talking about calming kids
or using our breath, it's called intentional breathing. And basically
there's a couple you know, like we always say breathe
(28:27):
into your belly. The science word for that is diaphramatic breathing,
and it stimulates the vagus nerve that we talked about.
So if you take a deep breath and instead of
like your chest expanding, it's almost like your belly is
expanding when you breathe, and your belly comes in and out,
and that just doing a few deep belly breaths can
(28:51):
slow your heart rate and can calm your nervous system.
So it's not solving the problems outside of what's going
on with you, but it is turning off your alarm
inside and allowing you to think clearly about what's going on.
The second one is just long exhales, so almost like
think about like if you like took a huge sigh,
(29:14):
it's a signal to your brain from the inside out
that the danger has passed. So if you try inhaling
for four and then exhaling for six, that's an easy one,
and you can count it for the kids, or they
can count themselves. Breathing in through the nose and then
out through the mouth just slows their breath down, So
(29:35):
it's like if you've ever seen someone that's really panicking,
a lot of times they feel like they can't breathe,
or their breathing is very shallow and very quick, and
it's the idea of just slowing that down to turn
off their internal alarm. And then the last one is
humming or singing. So you'll notice sometimes anxious kids, you'll
see them just humming a lot and it's actually stimulating
(29:56):
their vagus nerve by vibrating their vocal cord. And there's
devices out in the world. They're called biofeedback devices, and
they actually like you can kind of click it on
your finger or click it on a child's finger and
have them take these deep breaths and you can actually
watch their pulse drop and drop and drop, so they
can see it and understand that they're in control of
(30:18):
what's going on.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
So, Nikki, you know, we talked about all of these,
you know, ways that we can maybe try and help
our children and ourselves. I think these translate to adults
as well. But there are some families out there. There's
some parents who they've done everything, they've tried everything, maybe
everything that you've said plus some but things still are
not okay. Like when when should a family seek help
(30:44):
from their.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, I mean these at home strategies are powerful, but
sometimes they need more support. And I would say persistent
fear and anxiety can affect kids learning, it can affect
their development. So signs to watch out for are when
it's really affecting daily functioning, if there are sudden behavior changes, grades, sleep, eating,
(31:08):
social withdrawal, any signs of hopelessness or self harm, or
if the stuff that worked before isn't working anymore. You know,
therapists use techniques like cognitive behavioral therapy that really helped
to change negative thought patterns and unhealthy behaviors. And seeking
(31:32):
help is not a sign of failure at all. It's
a strength. It's care. There's certainly a lot that we
can do at home. I would say, you know, we
talked about a lot of it, and like I mentioned,
you know, like not everything works for everybody. I have
two children, and you know, like a walk in the
woods for us, one is sitting on a fallen log
(31:52):
staring into the water, and one is climbing a tree
and climbing a cliff and jumping, and both of those
are is to regulate, And it's fine. It's just a
matter of sort of identifying what works for us and
what works for our kids and then helping them to
draw from that when they need it. And also, I
would say, kind of keeping a healthy level of stress
(32:18):
and anxiety in the every day because life throws us
curveballs and it's not always so pleasant. So when that happens,
if you are healthy and you are taking care of yourself,
it's easier to deal with when stress really does arrive.
And that includes, which I know you've talked about on
(32:38):
your podcast before, what we feed ourselves, what we're eating,
the sleep that we're getting, what we digest from social
media and from news. It all adds up.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, And so I think when people listen to this,
you know, if your child's on these medications, it doesn't
mean that you've failed at something or that they're a
bad physician for prescribing them. But the reality is, and
this was highlighted in that MAHA report that just came out,
is that while there are some benefits to adolescents specifically
using stimulants for severe ADHD and also for depression anxiety
(33:15):
at times, truly if you look at the data, there's
a lot of gray areas where the evidence is actually
very weak or even controversial, specifically mild depression. Most of
the research finds that for children with just mild depressive
symptoms or even mild anxiety as symptoms, these SSRIs or
the other medications we're giving them have a little to
(33:36):
no benefit over placebo. Yet there are a ton of
kids on these medications. I mean, depression has a big
scale we also don't have a lot of long term
effects data on these kids. You know, most of the
studies are eight to twelve weeks, so there's a lot
of limited research on this. And also, you know, one
of my biggest things is you have broad use of
(33:57):
these medications without therapy. So physicians are prescribing these medications,
but they're not doing it with concurrent psychotherapy or behavioral
changes or as you're mentioning dietary issues, because we are
what we eat. As I've said at nauseum, if you
aren't having your child eating the healthiest they possibly can,
how can you possibly expect their brain to be as
(34:19):
healthy as possible if their body is not as possible.
I know I've already mentioned the black box warnings on
these medications that could increase suicide risk in kids, and
so not saying you don't go to these medications, I'm
just saying you have to try some things before, especially
because there are probably some kids that don't need to
be on it. And unfortunately, because they're so overused, the
(34:41):
children who truly truly would benefit from these medications are
having a hard time getting access to them because the
supply is not there. Because the demand is so great,
and so those are some of my concerns. I'm so
grateful Nikki that you came on today and gave us
these foundational tools we can use as parents to help
(35:02):
out our kids before jumping to seeing the doctor and
going straight to the medications. And you know, maybe we
do need medications in the individual case, but as long
as you're doing it with the lifestyle changes as well,
that's the best we can really hope.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Absolutely, And like I started with, I think just you know,
having parents and families know that they are probably already
doing more than they realize, and just you know, understanding
what it is that they're doing when they do things
like go for a walk or give their kid a
hug or take deep breath, and that there is science
(35:36):
behind it, that it can be incredibly effective, and that
all of this is helping their kids along the way
to develop healthy coping strategies as life gets more and
more stressful. And thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
So that's right, bring me on, Thank you. Well, we're
going to focus on not medicating away symptoms. We have
to address the root causes, do everything we can naturally
to try and address it, and then and only then
consider medications. Thanks again for coming on Wellness Unmasked, Nikki,
thank you more coming up on Wellness Unmasked with doctor
Nicol Sapphire. Well, that was an extremely informative conversation with
(36:15):
Niki Robbins. I am so grateful that she was able
to come on and give us some of her wisdom.
When it comes to this, all of us, mothers, fathers,
family members, just humans. All we want to do is
what's best for our children, and sometimes medication is the answer.
But wouldn't it be great if we could take a
step back, take the time and use science, back to
(36:35):
methods to try and decrease our levels of anxiety and
depression and panic that we all kind of feel sometimes.
I mean, we're living in a very fast world from
social media and the digital connectivity and the instant gratification
and the shortened attention spans and all of that. To
just take a moment and pause, take a walk in nature,
(36:57):
and it sounds kind of silly sometimes taking deep breaths
as we talked about, it's not just about taking a breath,
but what's the science behind that. Actually you're actually treating
yourself and not with stimulant medication or any other medication.
That comes with a black box warning something that is
actually beneficial to you and you didn't even need a
(37:18):
prescription for it. Thanks for listening to Wellness on Masks
on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Wellness Unmasked
with doctor Napole Sapphire and start listening on the pre
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,
and we'll catch you next time.
Welcome to Wellness on Mass. I'm doctor Nicole Sapphire, your host,
mom and forever truth seeker, and today I want to
dive into something really important to all of us. I'm
sure you have heard the headlines or seen them a
little bit about the recent MAHA report that came out
put out by Secretary Kennedy, the HHS Secretary. I was
met with a lot of fanfare. A lot of people
(00:23):
were excited about it because he made a lot of
promises before he dropped out of his own presidential campaign
race to join President Trump. But he has been talking
about something that for parents', physicians, just humans we all
should be interested in, and that's chronic illness in our country. Now.
I don't want to get into the entire report because
(00:44):
that is more than just one episode, but there was
one aspect of the report that I thought was really
interesting that I absolutely wanted to touch on. One of
it was talking about the rise in ADHD and anxiety
diagnose in our children, and more specifically about how much
we're actually medicating children and not just medicating children, because obviously,
(01:08):
if there is a proven benefit to treating someone, you
want to do that. If you have good outcomes and
well documented benefits, then what is the concern. Well, the
problem is the benefits of some of these medications, especially
in children, sometimes have more risks than even benefits, and
(01:29):
the overall benefit or success isn't the best documented. So
I think it's a really interesting point that they're bringing up. Now,
mind you, what this report was was just pointing out problems.
They threw out a whole bunch of fancy statistics, some
of which I could probably argue for, and a few
I could argue maybe against. Maybe there is a little
(01:50):
bit of misrepresentation of some of the data, but overall,
the concept of what they're saying holds true. And it's
not new. This is something that we've got I have
known for decades. This is just the first time that
our federal institutions are saying we're going to do something
about this. So right now they're pointing out the problems,
(02:11):
they have a couple of months to turn those problems
into some solutions that are actionable by the government. Now,
obviously that does take a little bit of a pause,
because we want to make sure we don't have so
much government oversight and intrusion. We already have a ton
in the doctor patient relationship. We don't want there to
be even more. But I always think that doing deep
(02:34):
dives and looking into the data, especially when it comes
to our children, is very important. So let's talk about
the basic facts. The MAHA report highlights a significant increase
in ADHD diagnoses among children, with over three point four
million currently on medications for it. So the report expresses
(02:55):
concerns over possibly over prescribing of these stim mulent medications
and other psychiatric drunks for children, suggesting that this trend
may actually be contributing to a broader public health issues.
So when we talk about the over prescribing, well, what
are the numbers? Well, when you say ADHD medication. So
(03:18):
ADHD is attention deficit hyperactivity disorders. Now this diagnosis, just
like autism, spectrum has broadened over the years. So while
we see a rise in the incidents or the diagnosis
of it, we also have to know that we have
a broader diagnostic criteria so more people fit in to
the diagnoses. So the medications commonly used for ADHD are stimulants,
(03:43):
like with the names of Adderall and Ridlin. Now these
have seen a dramatic rise in use between two thousand
and seven and twenty sixteen, ADHD diagnoses in children increased
by forty three percent. That's according to JAMA Network. This
isn't just you know, RFK Junior saying something on the fly.
(04:03):
This is actually documented in scientific literature. And in twenty twenty,
about six point one million children in the United States alone,
that's nearly ten percent of all kids in the United
States have been given the diagnosis of ADHD, with sixty
two percent of them taking medication. So about ten percent
(04:25):
of our children have been diagnosed with ADHD and nearly
two thirds of them are actually on medications for it.
And this is from the CDC. Prescriptions for stimulants among
adolescents rose by nearly twenty five percent between twenty twenty
and twenty twenty one, with the biggest spike scene in
teenage girls. Well, this is based off of a CDC
(04:47):
report that came out in twenty twenty three. I don't
think anybody is surprised by this. What happened during that
time that was COVID. We had data way early on
during COVID. By August twenty twenty, Fair Health actually out
reports showing a rise in kids and adolescents going to
the emergency room, not for broken bones because they weren't
outside playing, but for mental health crises. So we knew
(05:11):
the kids were not okay. They already weren't okay before COVID,
and it's getting much worse since then. And we can
point fingers all we want. It's from the use of technology.
It's social media, it's the bullying, it's COVID, it's all
of these other things. So, in addition to the stimulants
(05:32):
for ADHD, a twenty twenty two study in the Journal
Pediatrics found that antidepressant prescriptions for adolescents or you know,
kids age twelve to seventeen increased by almost forty percent
from twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen, and that was before COVID.
(05:53):
During the COVID pandemic, there was a dramatic spike in
new antidepressant prescriptions among teenagers again, particularly girls, up over
sixty percent from twenty twenty to twenty twenty one. I'm sorry, guys,
but this is a devastating number. Our kids are not okay,
and we have to take a pause for a second.
(06:16):
What's going on? Yes, there has to do with our
rise in technology. Absolutely, there's also underlying social, environmental, even
dietary issues that may be being overlooked, and maybe we
should be focusing on these a little bit more before
we're jumping in to the medication based solutions. Because the
(06:39):
long term effects of psychiatric medications in developing brains actually
remain quite uncertain and understudied, despite the fact so many
kids are on them. I can say that there are
black box warnings on these medications because they themselves have
a risk of suicide with them. The FDA required the
(07:01):
medications to be putting black box warnings because of an
increased risk of suicide in children and teens taking the medications.
We're giving these kids medications to try and make them
better in a better place mentally, Yet the very medications
we're giving them come with a black box warning of
suicide risk. And when suicide is one of the leading
(07:24):
causes of death for those fifteen to twenty nine globally
and the second leading cause of death for kids ten
to fourteen and fifteen to twenty four in the United States,
this is a problem. Maybe we're giving too many kids
too many medications. Now. I'm not saying we should just
do away with these medications altogether, absolutely not. In fact,
(07:47):
for some families, these medications are complete life savers. They
make a child be able to be successful in school,
successful in after school programs and social activities, and going
on into their professional activities. Sometimes the brain needs help
with medications. It's just the way it is. Our brains
(08:09):
are not all formed the same, but not all every
case is alike. And while one child may truly benefit
from these medications, I guarantee not everyone needs them, certainly
not everyone who's been prescribed them. I am in the
RFK junior camp on this one. I think we're overprescribing
our kids these medications. And is that because the parents
(08:31):
are rushing to the doctors to get the medication. Is
it because the doctors are rushing to prescribe. I don't
think there's anything nefarious going on. I think parents are
worried for their children. They're probably they've probably exhausted other
things to do. They probably have a friend with a
kid on medication, or maybe a school has approached them
(08:52):
and said you should talk to the doctor about medication.
Someone has put the bug in that family's ear that
maybe my kids should be on medication. And let's be honest,
doctors are overworked these days after the Affordable Care Act,
They're essentially turning over patients like some mass factory, just
(09:15):
over and over again. They don't have time to really
dive deep into all of the intricacies. They don't have
time to educate the families, the patients themselves on things
that they can try and do before they go to medication. Sometimes,
by the time the kid gets to the doctor, so
much time has passed that the kid potentially is getting
(09:36):
kicked out of school, they're failing school, whatever it is.
So the family and the patient are desperate, and the
doctor's like, okay, let's just prescribe medication. And that is
the environment that we're in right now, so I listen.
I am not a child mental health expert by any
stretch of the imagination. I'm just a mom of three kids,
and I observe a lot of children. And yes, I
(09:56):
did go to medical school, but not for this. I
am not. This is not my special but I want
to talk to someone who this is their specialty, and
I want to talk about what, as the parents, can
we be doing to maybe help our children and maybe
help ourselves too, because we all deal with levels of
anxiety and depression throughout our lives. Sometimes they come and go,
(10:16):
sometimes they're with us for life. What are things that
we can do that's scientifically proven to work on us,
not just mentally, but physically as well. So I'm very
excited to have Nicki Robbins, who is a child developmental
specialist with us, who has extensively studied some natural ways
to try and help our children before we introduce medication
(10:37):
to them, because there are potentially some things that we
can do if we're trying to avoid medicating our children.
You're listening to Wellness on Mass, We'll be right back
with more. I'm so excited to bring on our guest,
Nicki Robbins. She's a childhood development specialist. Nikki, thank you
so much for being on Wellness on Mass.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Thank you for having me Nicole.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So, first of all, you know, when I say childhood
development specialists, some people may know what that means, but
a lot of people don't tell us a little bit
about your background.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Okay. I hold an undergraduate degree in child development and
Family Studies, and then I went on to get a
dual masters in early childhood Education and special education. And
in addition, I have two certificate kits that address sort
of emotional regulation and mindfulness and children from kindergarten to
(11:29):
the end of high school to twelfth grade. And for
the past five years I've taught emotional regulation and mindfulness
to kindergarten age children, and I would say my focus
is really helping children and families to build strong emotional
foundations before they get to the point where clinical help
is needed. So just sort of like the simple everyday
(11:51):
things that they're probably already doing, and how they're more
powerful than they realize, and that these small actions can
really help to build a healthy foundation, and then just
sort of understanding this science behind why what they're doing works.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
And so that's one of the things that we're talking
about here today is ADHD diagnoses are on the rye
and rise. Anxiety depressions is all on the rise, not
just an adults, but our kids are feeling it too,
especially since COVID we saw those numbers go up. What
is happening like inside of the child's brain when they
are feeling stressed.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, so when they're feeling anxious or overwhelmed. I'll talk
a little bit about like the structure of the brain,
but very simply this is probably something that everyone has
heard before their brain activates what's called fight flight or
freeze response. And this happens when the part of the
(12:48):
brain it's called the amygdala, which basically acts like an
internal alarm system inside of our brain. It's always scanning
for danger and sending distress signals when something feels safe,
even if that's something is just a big feeling or
a new experience. So I've heard it explained like a
smoke alarm in your house, if you blow out a
(13:10):
candle under your smoke alarm, or if you burn a
piece of toast, the smoke alarm still goes off, right,
So that's what happens with fight or flight, Like your
internal smoke alarm is going off, and it feels the same,
it sounds the same as if you're running out of
a house fire. So once that is activated fight or flight,
(13:30):
it turns on something called the sympathetic nervous system, and
it's basically emergency mode for kids. And what it looks
like physically inside of kids is a racing heart, shallow breathing,
sweaty palms, and I think, most importantly, trouble thinking clearly.
So this is why when a kid is in a
(13:51):
state of panic. We can't reason with them, we can't
logic with them. They're not absorbing our words. So you know,
I remember when I as little, if I was upset,
someone would be like, calm down. It's not really effective
because we don't work.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I'm not if someone tells you to calm down, you
don't just calm down.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Like it's not it's not going to work. So it's
like feeling like you need to escape house fire and
someone just being like, come down, take a deep breath.
And that's basically the prefrontal cortex of our brain is
the part where we use to problem solve, to reason,
(14:32):
to logic. That's where our emotional regulation comes. That's where
our impulse control comes from, and that is shut off
when we are operating from our flight or flight or
like from our amygdala.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Basically, you know, one thing that's interesting because what you're
describing is a lot of like those feelings of anxiety
or anxiousness. But some people are thinking, well, my kid
was diagnosed with ADHD, not anxiety. But the reality is
is we have seen the rise in incidents and diagnosis
of a ADHD, a lot of kids are actually being
misdiagnosed in my opinion of ADHD, because ADHD shares a
(15:07):
lot of symptoms with anxiety, trauma, sleep disorders, and even giftedness.
I mean, there are some children with true ADHD, and
that is you can see it. It runs in families. They
are specific genes that are linked to ADHD, some environmental
factors like prenatal or early brain development like a premature birth,
(15:28):
low birth weight, brain injuries, all of this. But what
you're describing is something that a lot of kids are
experiencing right now. Are these feelings of panic and worry,
and like I feel like our kids are just so
worried right now.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, And I would say the two points there. One
is that there's a lot of overlap between the way
things like ADHD and depression and anxiety present themselves. So
like spot on, they can look exactly like the same thing,
but they may have a different root cause. And then
I would say the second piece of it is that
anxiety wears many masks. So like my early understanding of
(16:07):
anxiety was sort of this like nebishy, complainy, like cannot
handle the world human being, and that it doesn't look
like that in everyone you know, it can look like
a superachiever. It could look like somebody who shows up
to everything early. It could look like somebody who avoids
anything that makes themselves uncomfortable, and their world gets smaller
(16:27):
and smaller. So even in our kids, worry and fear
and anxiety can look very different in all of them.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So you have kind of created an inch that you
have done a lot of research. You're not opposed to
medication in some children and some people, but you really
focus on some tools to calm the brain.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Right, So I would start by saying, like, knowing that
the fight or flight is activated, like what can we
do to calm it? And then I can kind of
give you like a top ten hit list of what
we can do in our homes without medication, without seeking
clinical assistance, to help get up and out of these
(17:14):
kind of situations. And when the brain feels safe again,
this is instead of the sympathetic it's the parasympathetic nervous system,
and it's called rest and digest, not eating digesting, but
like being able to digest what's coming in around us.
Our heart rate slows back down, our breathing slows back down,
(17:36):
and it turns on thinking and connection again so we
want to get our kids from this fight or flight
back into rest and digest. And later on you'll hear
me talk a little bit about the vagus nerve, which
is like a key player in helping that to happen.
It's the longest cranial nerve in the body. It runs
(17:57):
from the brain stem down through the heart, the lungs,
and your gut, and stimulating this nerve is basically telling
your body I'm safe now, I'm safe again. So we
talk more about that when we talk about breathing stuff.
But I'll go into maybe like the top ten tools
and like a little bullet point on each about what's
(18:18):
the science behind it sounds great, And what I would
say to families before I get started is just you know,
when it comes to helping kids with anxiety at home,
you're probably doing more than you realize already. When you
do things like go for a walk, share a laugh,
a tight hug, pause, and breathe, you're literally shaping your
(18:40):
kid's brain for calm and for connection. And a lot
of this stuff is really really simple, tiny actions that
can help them to set the way that they deal
with anxiety going forward. So the first one is just
time and nature or green space. I don't know, Like
if you've ever taken a walk in the woods yourself
(19:00):
or with your kids and there's something like you get
in there and it smells the casater forest and you
just take a deep breath and everything just sort of
calms down. And the science behind that is that trees
actually release something called it's fido byton the sides. I
don't know if I'm getting saying it right. I just
(19:22):
know what it does inside of me. But it's actually
a natural chemical that trees release that lowers our cortisol.
So as strange as it sounds, what the trees are
breathing out actually calms down our own personal stress hormone.
So I mean, I think we innately know something smells great,
but it's smelling great and it's calming us down. And
(19:44):
then the second part is that just being out in
nature boosts our of the brain waves, which are relaxed attention.
So if you ever observe a kid sitting in the forest,
like on a tree stump, staring at something really intently,
that is pure presence and calm, and that is great
for them. The second one is time by the water.
(20:08):
So if you ever, you know, take your kids to
walk by a stream, or by an ocean, or by
a lake, even a pool, looking out a window at water,
and you realize, at some point along the way all
of that your brain has quieted down. Their brain has
quieted down. The rhythm and sound of the water activates
our default mode network.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So the plus that way we hear ocean sounds like
a part of the white noise machine that helps us
sleep too.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yes, yes, yes, exactly. It activates daydreaming, reflecting, It can
calm nervous thoughts. It can certainly calm a screaming baby.
I remember plenty of times turning it and standing in
the bathroom with the shower running. Movement in general, so
not just being outside, but any movement at all is incredible.
(20:56):
That increases dopamine, It increases serotonin. These are the brain
chemicals that regulate our mood and our focus. And then
cross lateral, so crawling, dancing, anything, catching a ball with
different hands just helps us with emotional control. Okay, so
another one, number four. Growing up, I had my mom,
(21:19):
and then I had my best friend's moms like Mom
two and Mom three, and I can remember one of
them saying just splash cold water on your face, and
there's actually some science to it. So splashing cool water
on your face or your wrist activates what's called our
dive reflex and it actually slows down our heart and
calmps our body. So again going back to that vagus nerve,
(21:41):
like if our inner alarm system is going off, we
can't think straight. And so something is simple. As you're
at home, there's some panic going on, like just splashing
cold water on your face or on your wrists. And
this is particularly effective for young children. Anything sensory with
young children in so, even like sucking on a sour
(22:03):
candy or a soothing scent. So there's actually some clinical
trials on the calming effect of lavender oil.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I've seen those. We have them in the hospital. We
did one ourselves at my hospital and we put little
scented patches with lavender and it showed that before biopsies,
those that had the lavender had better experiences. Yeah, and
you know me, I love my natural herbs, specifically lavender.
It's one of them. It's a great calm.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Being on an airplane with two very young children and
someone in front of me same thing, and I think
she must have used a little like peppermint and lavender
oil for her child who was screaming, and it was
just like a sensory experience first of all, changing the situation,
but it also engages some receptors in our brain that
promote relaxation. Another one that I think parents are already
(22:55):
doing that's a great one is just connection with others.
So anxiety can be contagious. So if we have it,
our kids can pick up on it, My dog can
pick up on it, any you know, anybody can get it.
So keeping ourselves calm, I contact, warm tone, touch, like
a firm embrace can help. It's called coregulation. So if
(23:19):
we're calming ourselves down, our kids are calming down with us,
and just that relationship and emotional safety. I have like
two more. One is a little bit bigger than what
we can do at home, but it's acts of service.
So there's a lot of studies around helping others raises
(23:39):
our oxytocin, so it strengthens our sense of belonging to
go out. And it also for kids these days, I
know there's a lot of talk about how much screen
time they're having, and it's sort of isolating and lonely
and going out and doing acts of service combats loneliness
and low self esteem, which can also contribute to anxiety.
(24:02):
Journaling is another one. Just have your kids free right
for five minutes one page. Does not matter what comes
out on the page. It just improves self awareness and
particularly if you can get them to name what they're feeling,
so that just reduces the intensity of what they're feeling.
It's called affect labeling. And the last one is mindfulness techniques.
(24:25):
So these I'll give you two that are really effective.
One is called five four three two one, and it
goes back to the senses again. So if a child
is having panic attack, having trouble separating, anything like that,
you need to calm down their body first. Use five
four three two one in all the senses. So tell
(24:45):
me five things you see, tell me four things you hear,
tell me three things you feel, two things you smell,
and one thing you can touch, And it just takes
them out of that state of perseverating, of continuing to
have this thought over and over again and shifts them
to a different part of their brain. And the second
(25:06):
one is mindful listening, which you can do anywhere. Mindful
looking is like, look around this room and tell me
something you've never seen before. Mindful listening is like stopping
for maybe sixty seconds and listening what's right in front
of you, what's in the room next to you, what's outside,
to the point where they're hearing a bird outside or
a transtation, and again is just interrupting where they are
(25:28):
thinking from and bringing them back into like logic and reasoning.
And then I would say, you know, the one thing
that I didn't say is to avoid things that make
your children feel uncomfortable, which just does.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So isn't it okay sometimes for your kids to feel uncomfortable?
Like you know, my mindset is, I mean, you don't
always want to put them in uncomfortable situations that can
breed like insecurity and as we're talking about anxiety and stuff.
But is it okay for them to be uncomfortable sometimes?
Because the exact opposite of that is which are in
those helicopter parents and our kids are not able to
(26:06):
go out into the world.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yes, exactly. So if they avoid it, it's not growth
for them. It does not allow for real practice of
the tools that they're collecting. These are the moments that
allow them to grow. These are the moments that allow
them to strengthen. And I would say, you know, of
all the things that I listed, like, some work for
some kids, some don't. So it's a chance to practice,
(26:29):
like what works in what situations and what's effective. Avoidance
is basically telling us that we are avoiding it is
making us feel good. But you get you get better
at what you practice, right, So if you avoid it,
you're practicing I can't do what I'm afraid of. And
(26:49):
I think when that happens, their worlds tend to get
smaller and smaller and smaller. So if there's anxiety around
going to a birthday party, they don't go, and then
it's going to a play date with more you know,
it continues to get smaller. So some level of stress
is healthy and it allows us to get outside of
(27:10):
our comfort zone and to grow, and then to practice
what happens when there is anxiety. And there's some lessons
in this I think that kids learn. One of them
is just that it's finite, right, Like these waves of
panic or fear don't last forever. It's a feeling that
comes and then seven minutes later it's gone. And during it,
(27:34):
having an understanding of what works for them gives them
a little bit of sense of control. It doesn't stop
the anxiety, but it gives them control over what's going on.
And the more control, I think, the less occurrence that
you see.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And you said something earlier about the science. You mentioned
the vagus nerve, which you know piques my attention, So
tell me a little bit about you know, they're actually
when people say to you, just breathe, it can be
of not yeah, but they actually might be giving you
some really valid advice if you use it wisely.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Right exactly, So, breathing is one of the fastest ways
to calm down the body, but not all breathing is
created equally. So like when we're talking about calming kids
or using our breath, it's called intentional breathing. And basically
there's a couple you know, like we always say breathe
(28:27):
into your belly. The science word for that is diaphramatic breathing,
and it stimulates the vagus nerve that we talked about.
So if you take a deep breath and instead of
like your chest expanding, it's almost like your belly is
expanding when you breathe, and your belly comes in and out,
and that just doing a few deep belly breaths can
(28:51):
slow your heart rate and can calm your nervous system.
So it's not solving the problems outside of what's going
on with you, but it is turning off your alarm
inside and allowing you to think clearly about what's going on.
The second one is just long exhales, so almost like
think about like if you like took a huge sigh,
(29:14):
it's a signal to your brain from the inside out
that the danger has passed. So if you try inhaling
for four and then exhaling for six, that's an easy one,
and you can count it for the kids, or they
can count themselves. Breathing in through the nose and then
out through the mouth just slows their breath down, So
(29:35):
it's like if you've ever seen someone that's really panicking,
a lot of times they feel like they can't breathe,
or their breathing is very shallow and very quick, and
it's the idea of just slowing that down to turn
off their internal alarm. And then the last one is
humming or singing. So you'll notice sometimes anxious kids, you'll
see them just humming a lot and it's actually stimulating
(29:56):
their vagus nerve by vibrating their vocal cord. And there's
devices out in the world. They're called biofeedback devices, and
they actually like you can kind of click it on
your finger or click it on a child's finger and
have them take these deep breaths and you can actually
watch their pulse drop and drop and drop, so they
can see it and understand that they're in control of
(30:18):
what's going on.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
So, Nikki, you know, we talked about all of these,
you know, ways that we can maybe try and help
our children and ourselves. I think these translate to adults
as well. But there are some families out there. There's
some parents who they've done everything, they've tried everything, maybe
everything that you've said plus some but things still are
not okay. Like when when should a family seek help
(30:44):
from their.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, I mean these at home strategies are powerful, but
sometimes they need more support. And I would say persistent
fear and anxiety can affect kids learning, it can affect
their development. So signs to watch out for are when
it's really affecting daily functioning, if there are sudden behavior changes, grades, sleep, eating,
(31:08):
social withdrawal, any signs of hopelessness or self harm, or
if the stuff that worked before isn't working anymore. You know,
therapists use techniques like cognitive behavioral therapy that really helped
to change negative thought patterns and unhealthy behaviors. And seeking
(31:32):
help is not a sign of failure at all. It's
a strength. It's care. There's certainly a lot that we
can do at home. I would say, you know, we
talked about a lot of it, and like I mentioned,
you know, like not everything works for everybody. I have
two children, and you know, like a walk in the
woods for us, one is sitting on a fallen log
(31:52):
staring into the water, and one is climbing a tree
and climbing a cliff and jumping, and both of those
are is to regulate, And it's fine. It's just a
matter of sort of identifying what works for us and
what works for our kids and then helping them to
draw from that when they need it. And also, I
would say, kind of keeping a healthy level of stress
(32:18):
and anxiety in the every day because life throws us
curveballs and it's not always so pleasant. So when that happens,
if you are healthy and you are taking care of yourself,
it's easier to deal with when stress really does arrive.
And that includes, which I know you've talked about on
(32:38):
your podcast before, what we feed ourselves, what we're eating,
the sleep that we're getting, what we digest from social
media and from news. It all adds up.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, And so I think when people listen to this,
you know, if your child's on these medications, it doesn't
mean that you've failed at something or that they're a
bad physician for prescribing them. But the reality is, and
this was highlighted in that MAHA report that just came out,
is that while there are some benefits to adolescents specifically
using stimulants for severe ADHD and also for depression anxiety
(33:15):
at times, truly if you look at the data, there's
a lot of gray areas where the evidence is actually
very weak or even controversial, specifically mild depression. Most of
the research finds that for children with just mild depressive
symptoms or even mild anxiety as symptoms, these SSRIs or
the other medications we're giving them have a little to
(33:36):
no benefit over placebo. Yet there are a ton of
kids on these medications. I mean, depression has a big
scale we also don't have a lot of long term
effects data on these kids. You know, most of the
studies are eight to twelve weeks, so there's a lot
of limited research on this. And also, you know, one
of my biggest things is you have broad use of
(33:57):
these medications without therapy. So physicians are prescribing these medications,
but they're not doing it with concurrent psychotherapy or behavioral
changes or as you're mentioning dietary issues, because we are
what we eat. As I've said at nauseum, if you
aren't having your child eating the healthiest they possibly can,
how can you possibly expect their brain to be as
(34:19):
healthy as possible if their body is not as possible.
I know I've already mentioned the black box warnings on
these medications that could increase suicide risk in kids, and
so not saying you don't go to these medications, I'm
just saying you have to try some things before, especially
because there are probably some kids that don't need to
be on it. And unfortunately, because they're so overused, the
(34:41):
children who truly truly would benefit from these medications are
having a hard time getting access to them because the
supply is not there. Because the demand is so great,
and so those are some of my concerns. I'm so
grateful Nikki that you came on today and gave us
these foundational tools we can use as parents to help
(35:02):
out our kids before jumping to seeing the doctor and
going straight to the medications. And you know, maybe we
do need medications in the individual case, but as long
as you're doing it with the lifestyle changes as well,
that's the best we can really hope.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Absolutely, And like I started with, I think just you know,
having parents and families know that they are probably already
doing more than they realize, and just you know, understanding
what it is that they're doing when they do things
like go for a walk or give their kid a
hug or take deep breath, and that there is science
(35:36):
behind it, that it can be incredibly effective, and that
all of this is helping their kids along the way
to develop healthy coping strategies as life gets more and
more stressful. And thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
So that's right, bring me on, Thank you. Well, we're
going to focus on not medicating away symptoms. We have
to address the root causes, do everything we can naturally
to try and address it, and then and only then
consider medications. Thanks again for coming on Wellness Unmasked, Nikki,
thank you more coming up on Wellness Unmasked with doctor
Nicol Sapphire. Well, that was an extremely informative conversation with
(36:15):
Niki Robbins. I am so grateful that she was able
to come on and give us some of her wisdom.
When it comes to this, all of us, mothers, fathers,
family members, just humans. All we want to do is
what's best for our children, and sometimes medication is the answer.
But wouldn't it be great if we could take a
step back, take the time and use science, back to
(36:35):
methods to try and decrease our levels of anxiety and
depression and panic that we all kind of feel sometimes.
I mean, we're living in a very fast world from
social media and the digital connectivity and the instant gratification
and the shortened attention spans and all of that. To
just take a moment and pause, take a walk in nature,
(36:57):
and it sounds kind of silly sometimes taking deep breaths
as we talked about, it's not just about taking a breath,
but what's the science behind that. Actually you're actually treating
yourself and not with stimulant medication or any other medication.
That comes with a black box warning something that is
actually beneficial to you and you didn't even need a
(37:18):
prescription for it. Thanks for listening to Wellness on Masks
on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Wellness Unmasked
with doctor Napole Sapphire and start listening on the pre
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,
and we'll catch you next time.
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Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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