Dr. Nicole Saphier unpacks the fallout from the CDC’s leadership shakeup, including the firing of Director Dr. Susan Monarez. She examines the clashes with Secretary Kennedy, the controversies surrounding the ACIP committee’s vaccine recommendations, and the growing rift between the CDC and FDA. Nicole warns that transparency gaps, data concerns, and untested policy shifts risk eroding public trust and could have lasting consequences for American families and public health. Wellness Unmasked is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Friday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to wellness un Mass. I'm doctor Nicole Sathfire
and this is your weekly rundown. Okay, I have to
talk about what's going on at the CDC right now.
It was a busy week. We said a lot of hearings,
we're having ASIP meetings. More is going to be happening today.
But here's where we're at so far. Now. If you
don't know doctor Susan Manarz, who was the most recent
(00:22):
past CDC director. She was appointed by President Trump. She
underwent Senate confirmation, the first one to ever have to
do that. Twenty nine days after she assumed that role
as CDC director, Secretary Kennedy and President Trump fired her.
Huh why did they fire her after they just had
all this glowing praise to say about her? Good question.
(00:43):
We don't really know, and the way it's playing out
feels like an episode of Saved by the Bells for
all of you nineties children or nineties hot lessons out there.
Secretary Kennedy said that he couldn't trust her. Doctor Manaras said,
I was asked to rubber stamp the new ACIP potential
future changes and recommendations to the childhood vaccine schedule, and
(01:06):
you know, it's gone back and forth. Secretary Kennedy last
week in the Senate Finance hearing said that doctor Manaraz
is essentially a liar. He just straight up called her
a liar about a conversation they had, and doctor Manares
in her hearing also called him a liar, saying that
the conversation, well, actually she didn't directly call him a liar.
(01:29):
He straight up called her a liar. She kind of
danced around it, and you know, it was kind of
mincing words. But it seems like if I was to
deduce what happened in that closed door meeting with RFK
Junior and doctor Manares, it seems like RFK Junior may
have said something along the lines of, well, the new
ACEP committee is likely to bring forth updated recommendations when
(01:51):
it comes to the childhood vaccine schedule. Can I trust
that you are going to accept these recommendations and codify
them into the normal CDC recommendations. Doctor Manas responded something
along the lines of, well, you know, I'll take a
look at their recommendations and as long as the data
supports it and supports the change, then yeah, but I
(02:13):
have to see the data, and it seems like maybe
that wasn't good enough for Secretary Kennedy. He wanted assurances
from her that she was going to accept whatever the
newly appointed ASIP provided. Obviously he can't ask her. He
really shouldn't ethically ask her a rubber stamp something without
the data, and if he did, that's wrong on his part.
(02:35):
So they've gone back and forth. There's a lot of
figure pointing in the hearing this week. Senator Mullins actually
made a word that maybe there was a recording of
this conversation and he was really trying to go her
into changing what she was saying happened in that meeting.
It turned out it doesn't seem like there is a recording.
(02:56):
He had to walk back that statement. It's hard to say.
All we know is RFK Junior is saying he doesn't
trust her, he can't trust her, and she's saying RFK
Junior was telling her to accept recommendations even if there's
no data supporting it. Either way, it's a mess and
it's really embarrassing what's going on at the CDC right now.
(03:17):
I don't care if they're doing good things in terms
of reevaluating certain vaccines, the timelines, all of this. I
think that's always a good thing. But when we keep
hearing radical transparency and we're going to regain trust, I
can tell you these shenanigans are taking us farther away
from that mission. Now. Towards the end of this week,
(03:39):
the newly appointed a SIP your remember, R F. K
Junior fired all the original members essentially, and now he
appointed new members, which a lot of them, you know,
are not surprising. They're kind of aligned with what Secretary
Kennedy has been talking about for decades. Vaccines a little
bit more skeptical, not necessarily the you know, the traditional
(04:01):
medicine people we've seen in the past, which, by the way,
is a good thing. It's good to shake things up
and have different opinions. You want that debate, you want
honest debate. But a lot of what I've heard so far,
they've talked about the MMR vaccine, they've talked about hepatitis B,
and we're moving on to COVID. And while they're making recommendations,
the recommendations, they're essentially saying, well, we don't like the
(04:22):
current situation because there's a lack of data. So these
are our new recommendations, and I can tell you those
new recommendations have just as much data. Actually, those new
recommendations have even less data than the original recommendations. So
if the overarching goal here is to put forth evidence
based recommendations, the current situation has the most evidence, and
(04:47):
so these additional recommendations have even less evidence, although they
do make for valid arguments. I personally am not for
universally vaccinating all newborn children with hepatitis B. Personal opinion
is that this is a good conversation to have. This
should maybe be based on risk. But that's not even
what the new ACIP is talking about. They're saying, rather
(05:10):
than giving it at birth, let's give it at one month.
There is no study that shows that vaccine is better
at birth or better at one month. It's kind of silly.
It's hard to wrap my head around it a little bit.
You also have some of the ACIP committee members like
giving anecdotal stories, and as a physician who sees patients
every single day, please stop giving anecdotal stories when we're
(05:33):
having these committee meetings. That's not what this is about.
This is about evidence based medicine, biostatistics, and so and
so forth enough with the anecdotes. It makes it just
seem very unprofessional and has me scratched in my head, like,
what are we doing here. We'll see, as we know
the ACIP recommendations, most of the time it gets codified
(05:54):
into the formal CDC recommendations. Seeing has the CDC director
was ousted because she questioned the possible changes, my guess is,
whatever this new ACIP committee recommends, you're going to see
it codified by the CDC. The problem is these recommendations.
While they love to say, well, we don't mandate anything,
(06:15):
we just recommend bull crap. Okay, we know that the
official CDC recommendations then turns into mandates. The school mandates
the insurance CMS, Medicaid, all childhood health insurance, like the
CHIP programs, and so and so forth. So if you
(06:35):
remove something all of a sudden, it's no longer going
to be covered under insurance. If you keep something there,
it's likely going to be mandated by most public schools.
So all these things are very interesting, And you know,
one of the things that the CDC New ACIP Committee
is arguing is the MMR vaccine and whether it should
be used in combination with the vericella for kids under four. Well,
(06:58):
the problem I have with this is that the FDA
says it's okay. So I don't understand why if the
FDA is saying certain things are okay, like hepatitis be
at birth. If the FDA is saying it's okay, who
is the ACIP and what data do they have to
say it's not okay. So I recommend that these all
(07:19):
of these facets under the HHS get aligned, because you
just look silly if you're not aligned. If the FDA
says one thing, ACIP says one thing, I mean, it's
really just a circus and it's embarrassing, and it's taking
us farther away from trust in our public health, and
that's gonna be a problem. We already have a rise
(07:40):
in measles cases, whipping cough, and the more vaccine confusion
we create, the more preventable disease we will see. And
that is the fact. And kids are going to get sick,
some kids may die, and we need to get our
crap together because it's really upsetting. Thanks for listening to
Wellness un Masks on America's number one podcast network. iHeart
(08:01):
follow Wellness Unmasked with doctor Nipole Sapphire and start listening
on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts,
and we will catch you next time.
Welcome back to wellness un Mass. I'm doctor Nicole Sathfire
and this is your weekly rundown. Okay, I have to
talk about what's going on at the CDC right now.
It was a busy week. We said a lot of hearings,
we're having ASIP meetings. More is going to be happening today.
But here's where we're at so far. Now. If you
don't know doctor Susan Manarz, who was the most recent
(00:22):
past CDC director. She was appointed by President Trump. She
underwent Senate confirmation, the first one to ever have to
do that. Twenty nine days after she assumed that role
as CDC director, Secretary Kennedy and President Trump fired her.
Huh why did they fire her after they just had
all this glowing praise to say about her? Good question.
(00:43):
We don't really know, and the way it's playing out
feels like an episode of Saved by the Bells for
all of you nineties children or nineties hot lessons out there.
Secretary Kennedy said that he couldn't trust her. Doctor Manaras said,
I was asked to rubber stamp the new ACIP potential
future changes and recommendations to the childhood vaccine schedule, and
(01:06):
you know, it's gone back and forth. Secretary Kennedy last
week in the Senate Finance hearing said that doctor Manaraz
is essentially a liar. He just straight up called her
a liar about a conversation they had, and doctor Manares
in her hearing also called him a liar, saying that
the conversation, well, actually she didn't directly call him a liar.
(01:29):
He straight up called her a liar. She kind of
danced around it, and you know, it was kind of
mincing words. But it seems like if I was to
deduce what happened in that closed door meeting with RFK
Junior and doctor Manares, it seems like RFK Junior may
have said something along the lines of, well, the new
ACEP committee is likely to bring forth updated recommendations when
(01:51):
it comes to the childhood vaccine schedule. Can I trust
that you are going to accept these recommendations and codify
them into the normal CDC recommendations. Doctor Manas responded something
along the lines of, well, you know, I'll take a
look at their recommendations and as long as the data
supports it and supports the change, then yeah, but I
(02:13):
have to see the data, and it seems like maybe
that wasn't good enough for Secretary Kennedy. He wanted assurances
from her that she was going to accept whatever the
newly appointed ASIP provided. Obviously he can't ask her. He
really shouldn't ethically ask her a rubber stamp something without
the data, and if he did, that's wrong on his part.
(02:35):
So they've gone back and forth. There's a lot of
figure pointing in the hearing this week. Senator Mullins actually
made a word that maybe there was a recording of
this conversation and he was really trying to go her
into changing what she was saying happened in that meeting.
It turned out it doesn't seem like there is a recording.
(02:56):
He had to walk back that statement. It's hard to say.
All we know is RFK Junior is saying he doesn't
trust her, he can't trust her, and she's saying RFK
Junior was telling her to accept recommendations even if there's
no data supporting it. Either way, it's a mess and
it's really embarrassing what's going on at the CDC right now.
(03:17):
I don't care if they're doing good things in terms
of reevaluating certain vaccines, the timelines, all of this. I
think that's always a good thing. But when we keep
hearing radical transparency and we're going to regain trust, I
can tell you these shenanigans are taking us farther away
from that mission. Now. Towards the end of this week,
(03:39):
the newly appointed a SIP your remember, R F. K
Junior fired all the original members essentially, and now he
appointed new members, which a lot of them, you know,
are not surprising. They're kind of aligned with what Secretary
Kennedy has been talking about for decades. Vaccines a little
bit more skeptical, not necessarily the you know, the traditional
(04:01):
medicine people we've seen in the past, which, by the way,
is a good thing. It's good to shake things up
and have different opinions. You want that debate, you want
honest debate. But a lot of what I've heard so far,
they've talked about the MMR vaccine, they've talked about hepatitis B,
and we're moving on to COVID. And while they're making recommendations,
the recommendations, they're essentially saying, well, we don't like the
(04:22):
current situation because there's a lack of data. So these
are our new recommendations, and I can tell you those
new recommendations have just as much data. Actually, those new
recommendations have even less data than the original recommendations. So
if the overarching goal here is to put forth evidence
based recommendations, the current situation has the most evidence, and
(04:47):
so these additional recommendations have even less evidence, although they
do make for valid arguments. I personally am not for
universally vaccinating all newborn children with hepatitis B. Personal opinion
is that this is a good conversation to have. This
should maybe be based on risk. But that's not even
what the new ACIP is talking about. They're saying, rather
(05:10):
than giving it at birth, let's give it at one month.
There is no study that shows that vaccine is better
at birth or better at one month. It's kind of silly.
It's hard to wrap my head around it a little bit.
You also have some of the ACIP committee members like
giving anecdotal stories, and as a physician who sees patients
every single day, please stop giving anecdotal stories when we're
(05:33):
having these committee meetings. That's not what this is about.
This is about evidence based medicine, biostatistics, and so and
so forth enough with the anecdotes. It makes it just
seem very unprofessional and has me scratched in my head, like,
what are we doing here. We'll see, as we know
the ACIP recommendations, most of the time it gets codified
(05:54):
into the formal CDC recommendations. Seeing has the CDC director
was ousted because she questioned the possible changes, my guess is,
whatever this new ACIP committee recommends, you're going to see
it codified by the CDC. The problem is these recommendations.
While they love to say, well, we don't mandate anything,
(06:15):
we just recommend bull crap. Okay, we know that the
official CDC recommendations then turns into mandates. The school mandates
the insurance CMS, Medicaid, all childhood health insurance, like the
CHIP programs, and so and so forth. So if you
(06:35):
remove something all of a sudden, it's no longer going
to be covered under insurance. If you keep something there,
it's likely going to be mandated by most public schools.
So all these things are very interesting, And you know,
one of the things that the CDC New ACIP Committee
is arguing is the MMR vaccine and whether it should
be used in combination with the vericella for kids under four. Well,
(06:58):
the problem I have with this is that the FDA
says it's okay. So I don't understand why if the
FDA is saying certain things are okay, like hepatitis be
at birth. If the FDA is saying it's okay, who
is the ACIP and what data do they have to
say it's not okay. So I recommend that these all
(07:19):
of these facets under the HHS get aligned, because you
just look silly if you're not aligned. If the FDA
says one thing, ACIP says one thing, I mean, it's
really just a circus and it's embarrassing, and it's taking
us farther away from trust in our public health, and
that's gonna be a problem. We already have a rise
(07:40):
in measles cases, whipping cough, and the more vaccine confusion
we create, the more preventable disease we will see. And
that is the fact. And kids are going to get sick,
some kids may die, and we need to get our
crap together because it's really upsetting. Thanks for listening to
Wellness un Masks on America's number one podcast network. iHeart
(08:01):
follow Wellness Unmasked with doctor Nipole Sapphire and start listening
on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts,
and we will catch you next time.
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