July 21, 2025 • 56 mins
📍Dr. Warren Farrell, author of The Boy Crisis, joins David Rutherford for one of the most important conversations of our time: what’s happening to our boys—and how to fix it. From the crisis of fatherlessness to the collapse of emotional intelligence in young men, this powerful episode dives deep into the root causes and real solutions. Dr. Farrell shares groundbreaking research and practical insights into the importance of “dad-style parenting,” roughhousing, boundary enforcement, and helping boys develop both discipline and empathy. This is a must-watch for every parent, educator, and patriot.
➡️ GET THE FREE EMBRACE FEAR FULL COURSE: https://www.froglogicinstitute.com/embrace-fear-course-lander
➡️ FIRECRACKER FARM: https://firecracker.farm/
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Mom vs Dad Style Parenting
12:33 - Empathy vs The Warrior Mindset
25:03 - The Value of Fathers
46:22 - How To Parent After Divorce
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If we say what our fears are to a woman,
a woman oftentimes will lose respect for us. If we
say it to other men, the men whose respect for us.
So where is the incentive to open up and to
get in touch with our feelings? The most important single
thing is Dad's understanding that children benefit more from dad's
time than dad's does.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
For the past thirty years of my life, I have
been dedicated towards trying to understand what aspects of the
human condition enable us to succeed or what drives failure.
Now a massive part of my learning, my education has
been focused on training young men since I was a
seal instructor to an instructor at Blackwater, instructor for the CIA,
(00:46):
running my own private training motivational company, working with pro athletes,
mentoring young dozens of young men in terms of their
dreams of either becoming athletes or becoming Special Operations Force members.
And I'm here to tell you that in all of
that experience, one of the most profound impactful things that
I've ever come across in terms of my research and
(01:08):
my understanding of the core problems is through doctor Ferrell
in his book The Boy Crisis. This book has been
one of the most impactful pieces of literature and pieces
of information that I've ever found. And it is a
distinct honor for me to have you on today with us, Doc,
(01:28):
So God bless you and thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Well, I have to say it's an honor for me
to be with someone who has gone through the incredible
trials and tribulations of becoming a Navy seal and the
dedication that that shows towards the country and what you did,
what you must have done inside of yourself to overcome
barrier after burrier after barrier, and something I could never
(01:52):
even begin to think about doing. You know what I do.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, I'll tell you what man as a fighter, from
where you've been in your life, whether it was the
early you know, powerful feminist movement of the seventies, back
when it's it was in its purest forms, to to
what you've been doing lately, you know, in the multiple
books that you have out and and you know, uh,
and I want to talk about those at the end
for sure. But one of the things that really just
(02:17):
kind of pushed me over the edge. Not only was
it my buddy Dan at the Citizens podcast for sure,
who I love dearly, but also it's your your course
on the Peterson Academy. I was I think I signed
up for that that the Academy in the first month
that was available and saw your course there, and I
was just overwhelmed that so many people would have access
(02:41):
to your information in that capacity. So, you know, I'm
really excited. But let's jump right into this. So you know,
if I'm pretty sure everybody has has heard you, that's
listening to.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Me right now.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So I don't want to I don't want to spend
too much time giving your background, but I want jump
right into these key themes and just kind of go
down the list. And so we'll start with the crisis
of education. And for me, COVID was a particular moment
where things got exaggerated on all levels for mental health,
(03:18):
but in particular for children. Right we saw girls teenage
suicide increase by fifty percent. Now I have four daughters,
so a static like that like was shattering to me.
And then you know, we saw all different types of
increases and you know, pharmaceutical applications, doctor's visits in particular
with boys, boys suicide shot up as well too. So
(03:42):
based on that post COVID experience with you. Where do
we sit in the crisis of education with boys in America?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
We're in a very serious place. The crisis of education
happens especially in among boys who do have minimal or
no father president but boys that I call dad deprived.
We can't say fatherless boys, because every boy has a father,
but some boys are deprived of involvement of their father.
(04:11):
And oftentimes successful men are just devoted to their family
that they experience what I call the father's cash twenty two.
They learn to love their family by being away from
their love of their family and being successful. But it's
but what really ends up being of value to boys
is not the success of the dad, but rather the
(04:32):
involvement of the dad, the taking of the of the
the rough housing every day, the teasing, even though mom
may sort of say, you know what, rough housing, I
feel like I have just one more child demonitor, or
the you know, the treath like you know you made
Jimmy or Jane cry, why did you do that? You're
so insensitive? But you know, it's it's understanding the value
(04:54):
of dad style parenting that leads to boys being so
much more able to to handle life, to overcome barriers
to to know how to and to know how to empathize,
and you know, and believe it or not, the rough
housing on the part of a parent ninety nine percent
of the time, usually it's the father, but it can
(05:16):
also be the mother. The rough housing leads to empathy.
So can you imagine a dad saying, you know, sweetie,
I want to sweedie, meaning the mom I want to
I know, I want a rough house with whether my
three kids because you know they're going to be really
that I'm going to want to increase their empathy. And Mom, ago,
you must be kidding, And you know how many dads
(05:36):
would even know that rough housing is connected to empathy.
But the reason it's connected empathy is let's say you
have three kids and you have you say you put
them on the couch and say, okay, you know your
job is to jump on my back and pin me
down before I bend the three of you down, And
they get all excited, and mom is looking on and going,
oh my god, what's going to happen here? Somebody is
(05:59):
going to get hurt sooner or later. But on the
other hand, I don't want to interfere. I don't want
to be controlling, and I can see to be having fun.
I just hope Dad will know not to be too
rough with him. And you know, but I just fear
that somebody's going to get hurt. And your chances are
about ninety nine percent. Mom's right. Somebody gets hurt eventually
the first time, the second, and you know, Mom goes,
(06:20):
oh my god, I should have interfered. I should have
said something. Now I feel guilty that it didn't say something,
but I guess you know, Dad will you know now
you can see that somebody did get hurt, so it'll
he'll stop. But you know, the dad says, okay, you know,
if you do this again, if you put your elbow
into your sister's eye like that, you know you're going
to be you know, there'll be no more rough housing.
(06:41):
And Mom goes, what, you're giving them another chance? You
must be crazy and so and then sure enough Mom's
right again. The kids, you know, forget the boundaries, and
and they somebody hurts the other one, and now Dad
says everything that's crucial. He says, okay, you're He doesn't
set the boundary, he enforces the boundary and said, I
(07:03):
gave you that boundary. Now you violated it. Rough housing
over It's like telling a puppy dog, okay, you did
exactly the opposite of what I told you to do.
You know, pooped in the house, and so now there's
no treat, and so now is where the change begins
to happen. The next time the rough housing happens, and
(07:27):
dad says, you know, consider your sister and brothers feelings,
don't you know, don't put the don't be too rough.
The kids know that they're going to lose the rough
housing because they have lost that rough housing last time.
Dad didn't set a boundary. He enforced a boundary. And
one of the biggest differences between dads and moms on average,
(07:51):
and sometimes this is reversed, is that moms set more boundaries,
so they'll set bedtimes let's say at eight thirty, and
supervised by dads, we'll set boundaries a little bit later,
like nine o'clock. But the children supervised by dads are
more likely to get to bed earlier, not because the
boundaries were set earlier, but rather because the boundaries were enforced.
(08:14):
The child is more likely to come up to mom
and say, you know, oh Mom, I didn't get my
homework done. You don't want me to go into school
tomorrow without doing my homework to you, And Mom goes, oh,
I did tell you to get off the phone with
Jane or Jim whatever, you know, and you spend an
hour and a half in the phone. You should you
could have been doing your homework during that, but you're right,
I don't want you to go into school tomorrow without
(08:36):
having your homework done. Okay, do your homework, And so
the kid learns, aha, I can do home, I can
get away with it, whereas dad is more likely to
do They say the same thing the first time, but
the second time Dad will almost always enforce the boundary
to say, sorry, you're going to have to go in
tomorrow to school without doing your homework. That's the consequence
(08:57):
that you're paying now and are divorced. You know, divorced,
are separated. Can you imagine imagine the mom hearing that
the child was allowed to go into school without doing
the homework without understanding that that's part of boundary enforcement
and the consequence the kids learns that feels like a
dad that's neglectful of the child. And that's one of
(09:19):
the reasons that so many moms often feel like, I
don't want the dad to have father time because she
because no one understands the value of father time.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Hm. Wow, that that that well when you I mean,
obviously I did a little bit of psychology when I
was in school back in the day, and of course
you introduced to behavioralism and you're talking about BF skinner
and and and all the you know, the those consequences, right, pa,
aw that its origin and and you know, I think
(09:54):
what the interesting because I went through divorce and there
was definitely different types of things is taking place at
both houses, and so it was much more difficult to
rein in those consequences when I because I travel a lot.
I've always traveled a lot, So I'd come home and
I was kind of the dad weekend and the girls
would be like, Okay, you know, it's fun time with dad.
(10:17):
But then it was always that establishment. And one of
the things that you of those boundaries, one of the
things that I love that you integrate with it is
really the development of that empathy concept.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
It's it's teaching your sons to have a higher emotional
intelligence earlier. Why do you think that that's good instead
of more leaning into teaching your kid to be in
our world, we call it the warrior mindset, right, Why
do you believe that it has to be more of
(10:49):
a balance between those Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, first, yes, I was just complete one thought there
that I realized I left out the empathy I was
saying at the beginning of that rough housing that Dad
was saying that I want to teach the children empathy.
Therefore I want to do rough housing. And that seems
like so counterintuitive, But what's happening there and the boundaries
being enforced, is that the children are required in order
(11:12):
to continue the rough housing, they're required to think of
their sisters and brothers feelings about being hurt. That begins
to create empathy. It also creates postpone gratification. Immediate gratification
will be pushing my brother and sister aside to be
able to win at the rough housing. Postpone gratification is
I want to push my brother and sister aside to
(11:33):
win at the rough housing, but if I do, I'll
lose the rough housing. So therefore, in order to get
what I want, I have to postpone the gratification of
pushing my brother and sister aside in order to get
what I really want, which is the continuation of the
rough housing and postponed gratification is the single biggest predictor
(11:54):
of success or failure in life. And boat genders too, right, yes, absolutely,
And so the females have a tendency to be able
to They're able to sit down longer, they're able to
obey rules, they're able to take notes. Guys have to
have much more physical activity before they're really able to
(12:16):
focus and concentrate. And getting to that point, I forgot
the question that you.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Know, it's all right, it's all right, the idea is right.
I think a lot of a lot of misconceptions is
that you know we if you don't, especially as we've
seen the pretty significant societal demasculization of young boys, right,
we've reduced rough house play in school, the punitive damages
(12:42):
on kids, right, And the one that kills me more
than I is more than anything, is the hyper diagnosis
of ADHD, the implementation of pharmaceuticals, putting these kids on
these drugs for long terms, which leads I mean the
rabbit hole we can go down. That it is a
whole nother show in and of itself, with mass shootings
and all that. But the critical nature of being able
(13:04):
to have that physicality matched by, like you said, that
delayed gratification, which in and of itself the emotional intelligence emerges.
How does that take place or where is it kind
of uh stilted in that next prepubescence and puberty phase
(13:24):
because I've I've fixated on that group more than any
other group. Right, because if you do have the fatherless
boys or however you want it, you know less that
what do you call it? You call it deprivation?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Sorry? You know these kids are the boundaries are never
in place, and so how do you where do you
focus with those things in terms of the emotional intelligence
while while sustaining the war your mindset or warrior ethos
if you will, in that critical prepubescence in puberty phase.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, so much in the question there where.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
We're have a tendency dot I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
No, that's great. So the first thing here is that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Thank you so much for listening. Again, apologize for the interruption,
but I want to just tell you about our one
of our core sponsors, Firecracker Farms. Now, Uh, if you
want to spice up your life, that means you need
to spice up your food I'm done with the hot sauces.
I'm done with all that nonset. What I go to
now is Firecracker Farms and it's three Kings technology, right.
(14:38):
That's the mixing of the hottest peppers into these beautiful,
this beautiful spicy salt that I just peppered a hell
out of my eggs in the morning, my steak at night. Man,
this is one of the best products I've ever had.
It's really just brought a whole new, nuanced approach to
how my food tastes and my enjoyment of it. And
you know what the kicker this whole thing, it's a
(15:00):
family run business, and I love those family run business
my body. Alex and his family put their heart and
soul and delivering this incredible product. So go visit Firecracker
dot Farm, punch in promo code of RUT one five
that's Romeo Uniform Tango and get your taste buds going
bo yahs.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Where we need to go in the future is to
create this balance between heroic intelligence and health intelligence. And
heroic intelligence is wonderful up to a point, meaning that
it gives us the opportunity to know how to overcome
boundaries to do things that aren't easy for us to
do like you did with it. Every single step of
(15:42):
being a Navy seal is just like doubting yourself Okay,
no I can do it. Then maybe failing here or
at a time or two, instead of giving up and
saying I can't do it, having the resilience to come
back and try again, and to sort of you know,
and rather than hear people constantly around you complaining that
demoralizes you. Having people around you saying no, I can
(16:05):
do it, and focusing on that, that's you know, more
heroic intelligence. However, it's also important to know that to
become a hero. Let's say you're in boot camp and
the sergeant. Let's say you're Jewish, and the sergeant is
makes a comment like, okay, look at you know, he
(16:26):
makes some type of anti submitted comment, and you raise
your hand and say, excuse me, sergeant sir, But you know,
I was really I'm Jewish, and I was really offended
by that anti submitted comment. Now the response to the
sergeant will be something like, isn't that little sweet? Look?
We have a little Jewish boy here. Why don't you
do ten push ups? Jewish boy? If you can do
(16:47):
a push up. Do you know what a push up is, sweetie?
You know very much?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Sounds about right right there.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Maybe a little sergeant, there's.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Why in all of us you know that?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
And so yeah, and so the boy and so why
is the sergeant doing that. The sergeant is doing that
because the sergeant knows that the war machine does not
operate well with squeaky wheels and when people complain, and
that that that your job is being part of that
war machine, is being willing to die and do everything
(17:28):
that you need to do without concern for yourself and
your feelings or your fears, but to overcome your fears
and to recognize that, yes you will, you have a
good chance of dying, and if you don't have a
good chance of dying, you'll come maybe back with PTSD.
And that is your job. And you know, and if
(17:49):
if somebody and if you make close friends, it's going
to hurt all the more if a really close friend
dies in your hands or you or it gets you know,
shot and it is not quite killed, and you spend
a lot of time rescuing him or her, and maybe
you'll get killed in the process. But that's exactly what
your job is. So don't focus on your fears, don't
(18:13):
focus on your feelings. Now, that is extremely healthy for
people who are willing being trained to die to trying
to be disposable. And that was the male role, was
to be willing to be disposable. Men were really trained
to be the disposable sex, either in war or in
work either. As you know, all the hazardous jobs, ninety
(18:36):
three percent of the people that are killed on hazardous
jobs are males. I think of your construction workers, your
long haul truck drivers, you know your people who are
logging trees, all of your welders. Those are all male
dominated jobs because the males are much more likely to
be willing to risk their lives doing those jobs. And
(18:59):
so that, yes, that is useful for doing the jobs
that are necessary for survival, for the survival of the nation.
We are not being ruled by Nazis because we had
millions of men all over the world that have died
preventing us from having to be ruled by Nazis. And
so this is this is the positive value of that,
(19:21):
but it's also the negative value because those men learned
to repress their feelings and give no thought to themselves,
and so when they came home from if they did
manage to survive the process and came home, men are
twenty times as likely to die of suicide as they
(19:41):
are to die in any given year in a war.
And so that is really and so that means that
their emotional intelligence, their willingness to speak up and say,
you know, I really was offended by that, or I
really am hurt, or you know, my leg I think it,
you know, is infected, and it could come off and
(20:03):
say what we feel that has been that has been neglected,
and the result of that is twofold. You mentioned before
that you know that we that we're oftentimes lonely and
we don't have friends, and that that lowliness creates and
mental health problems, and especially during COVID, and so this
has been but even outside of COVID, if we say
(20:27):
what our fears are to a woman, a woman oftentimes
will lose respect for us because we're sort of talking
about we fear that a woman will lose respect for
us because we're showing vulnerability and she wanted a strong man.
If we say it to other men, the men lose
respect for us. So where is the incentive to be
to open up and to get in touch with our feelings.
We men are very bottom line, and we know that
(20:49):
if there's if we can't express our feelings in the
long run, why even get in touch with them in
the short run, because it's only going to go to
some place that's going to frustrate us. So we will
be able to do that. So we're not even in
touch with our feelings because we know that there's nowhere
down the line than anyone wants to know who we are.
So we spent the last half a century focusing on
(21:11):
women and women's problems with that, and women don't think
that we have problems, but I think that we're filled
with power and we're you know, we're the male patriarchy
and things like that, because we haven't said anything and
women can't hear what men don't say.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
That's brilliant, that's brilliant, you knows. I as I think
about what you're saying, because I mean, I've I've lost
a last count, I think it's sixteen of my friends
have committed suicide in the last seven years alone, you know,
or I'm averaging about four or five a year, and
(21:46):
a lot of that is well, you know, we have
a concept. It's you know, a little bit more than PTSD.
It's called operator syndrome, and it's a unique constellation about
seventeen different medical mental health things, and one of those
in the metal health side is this existential shortfault. Right,
you get engaged in that deeper level purpose and then
(22:08):
when you come back to re engage in the more
mundane or you know, I don't I think mundane always
has almost a negative connotation, right, the application of skill
sets every day that make your life function, that take
care of your family or you know, to take care
of yourself, I think that you lose that the desire
(22:30):
isn't as much as it was when you're at the
higher level. And so I I see with young men
what I always try to do is I try and
you know, put them in a physical environment, break them
down physically, to create the space to where, hey, let's
have the discussion of why the motivation is coming up short?
Why are you not what right now do you want
(22:52):
to push yourself? What type? Is there something fatalistic that
it's not going to have no relevance long term. You
don't have the capacity all those things that you you
had talked about that definitely went through my brain and
training with the with young men right now, Where are
you seeing specific types of programs that are positively impacting
(23:16):
young men, that are that are teaching them these variables
from the emotional intelligence right to to the that sense
of relieving the economic presupposed pressure of your only the breadwinner,
you're only this, and then you know also you know
the consequences of society. I love that idea, the consequences
(23:39):
of society. I think, Brain, what programs are really working
well in your opinion that exists right now?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I think the most important single thing that's been done
is in Florida. There was the Speaker of the House
there did read the Boy Crisis and use them with
his kids, and when he found that it worked well
for he and he and his life were together, they
were married, they had three or four kids, and it
worked well there. They gave the boy Crisis to the
(24:07):
head of the Republican head and the Democratic head of
the family committees within the Florida legislature, and they ended
up passing a bill contributing seventy million dollars of funds
to help mothers understand the value of fathers and fathers
understand their own value, all the things that I mentioned
(24:29):
before about their rough housing, and in the Boy Crisis book,
there's just a whole list of things that dads tend
to do, like teasing, like taking kids camping, like letting
kids get lost, but not so lost that they can't
find the way back ultimately.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But now is my job as an instructor in the
seal teams. I let them get lost?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Wow? Yeah, and tell me about that?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
What was the well, I mean, it's the consequence, and
I think think you know the the you know, what
I've found raising Ford daughters is that the the adaptation
of the consequence into the behavioral shift happens so much
more rapidly than any other of the young men I've
(25:18):
mentored in my life. It's a it's a much more
subtle process with them, but they require deeper level consequences.
So in our training, you know, the consequence is death
in our world, so we have, you know, these wide
spectrums of allowing them to fail, and that failure so
failure in my mind and in my world, and kind
(25:40):
of how I teach it failure is this. I call
it the positive application of pain, right, and I get
the shift in perception of what pain actually is, and
that we need those pain points, we need those consequences
to reverberate in that emotional state. Right, Yes, I'm afraid,
but it's also co mingled with the idea of courage. Right,
(26:02):
And so you have courage that draws the motivation. You
go out, you fail, you learn profound lessons, then come back.
And then if if you have the right role model,
the right teacher, the right influence, they'll help you adapt
that that the intensity that that intensity of that consequence
to shift, but your change in behavior more rapidly. Yes,
(26:25):
And so I think for boys they have a much
more intense need for the heavier consequence that that pain
versus girls, they learn they adapt much quicker.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You know, it's probably quite true. And and and that's
and it's really so for a parent imagining this, Let's
say here's a here here might be a typical scenario.
A child comes up to a mom and says, you know, mom,
I'm gonna climb the tree in the backyard. And mom goes, uh, well, sweety,
maybe in a few years, okay, but you know, don't
(26:58):
you can't do that now. It's the tree is too
tall and there's new branches and you could the branches
could break and it's much too dangerous. So the child
goes up to the dad and says, dad, could I
climb the tree? I'm not telling her, not telling dad
what Mom said. And Dad says, well, it's a big tree,
so be careful, sweetie, but yeah, yeah, okay. And so
(27:19):
then the cake climbs the tree and mom looks out
the window and says, wait, I told you you couldn't
climb the tree. Well Dad said that could and so
you know, and so what's happening there and what is
needed and so we have a really good example of
the difference between mom style parenting and dad's style parenting,
and the and the ideal is to have what I
would call checks and balanced parenting, and so so the
(27:41):
connection there needs to be something like this type of dialogue.
You know, I told Jane she couldn't climb the tree
because it's, you know, too tall, and you just let
her go ahead and do that, well dad, and Dad
says what dads don't say because dads don't know these things.
And as I said before, moms can't hear what dad's
and say. Is that when when kids take a risk
(28:03):
like that, they actually learn to balance what is a
safe risk versus what is not safe risk and to
draw the line there. And then your neurons begin to
connect in ways that they're not needed to connect otherwise
you actually increase your intelligence. And that's you know, that's
study base, that's the data for that. It's in the
(28:23):
boy crisis, and so you and so, but so Dad
has to first inform himself of what is the actual
value that is proven in Dad's style parenting and then
kindly share that with the mom, while mom shares what
the value of mom style parenting is, like I want
to prevent our daughter or son from getting killed by
(28:45):
going up too high and falling too far or and
and they're not old enough to make those decisions yet,
and so what might be a good compromise there? Mom
might say some version of Okay, me or Jane can
climb that tree, but you need to be under that
tree so that in case they do fall, you can
(29:07):
cushion the fall. So when there's a risk that could
end up being life or death or severe concussion risk,
then or in the direction of being safe. But on
the other hand, you want to have the ability to
take risk and to know how to avoid failure in
that type of deeper way and to increase the intelligence
(29:28):
toward that end. So mom might say, you need to
be under the tree, and by the way, give me
your cell phone while you're under that tree. And then
you have that the child getting the best of both worlds.
They have a chance to sort of take risks, increase
their intelligence, understand where that fine line is between too
(29:50):
much of a risk and not generating new brain cells
that help you know where, where and when to take
a a risk. And so those are you know, that's
just an example of, you know, of how dads and
moms really need to understand the value of each child's parenting.
(30:12):
But a lot of what dads do looks like it
is dangerous or bad idea, a bad idea to the
mom who isn't informed this way. So from the mother's perspective,
you know, the dad that lets the child take too
much of a risk is just not caring about the kid.
And so and that's why dads need to really inform
(30:33):
themselves as to what the value of that is. And
like what they did in Florida is they develop programs
that inform dads about their value and inform moms about
dad's value and dad involvement is actually a woman's issue.
Every woman I dated between I was married for quite
(30:55):
a while and then divorced for a while, and then
thirty years ago I met the woman who became my
wife and is my wife. And in between the almost
all the women I dated were single moms, And every
single single mom used the word overwhelmed. And she was
also disappointed in herself. She felt that there was you
(31:17):
know that she she didn't do her job with children
well enough, and she didn't do her job at work
well enough, and just sort of felt like disappointed in herself.
And she was constantly a lifelong juggling act. But her
number one word was overwhelmed. Well, why should moms have
to be overwhelmed? Moms should be inviting dads in to
(31:38):
share that the joys and the burdens of raising children,
even if they're divorced and so and so. This is
part of what Florida was doing, and this is part
of what you know that I'm working to create. A
White House counsel and boys and men were putting out
a lot of messages to the Trump administration that there
needs to be a White House counsel and the family
(31:59):
with sex for boys and men in sections for women
and girls. And and this is what you know that
needs needs to happen. Now that that's big programs. On
the level of small programs, there's there's programs like Mark
Schullinger's Young Men's Ultimate Weekend in California. There's programs like
Boys to Men, Uh this program. There there are things
(32:21):
called the sheds in many countries where men get together
and they talk about their feelings and their fears and
their and their strengths. And so all these types of
things are needed. And uh, there's the there's so much
that there's a fair amount that's going on, but there's
not nearly enough that's going on. Many Christian schools and
(32:45):
Christian efforts are being made to to work with boys
to help them become stronger young men, and and so
all of these things together are needed at the at
the but the most important single thing is dad's understanding
why their role. Once the family earns about fifty to
(33:07):
seventy thousand dollars a year, the Harvard Longitudinal studies show
that the children benefit more from dad's time than dad's time.
The first fifty to seventy thousand, depending on where you're
living in the United States, is needed for survival, but
after that, the time with the father is more valuable
than the money that the father makes.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
What I want to just talk to you a little
bit about is our new Embrace Fear curriculum that's available
on David Rutherford dot com. It's a part of the
Frog Logic Institute, which is going to be an emerging
group of core products or core curriculum that I've been
working on over the past thirty years. The first in
(33:55):
line is learning to embrace your fear. Fear is thenumber
one emotion that impedes us from achieving anything that we
truly put want to put our minds to right. It's
that emotion that's wired in you've been taught at your
whole life. It's it's that that one thing that you
really have to get a hold of. Now here's the deal,
it's there's no such thing as fearless. So please go
(34:18):
to David Brotherford dot com, check out go to courses,
and sign up for your Embrace Fear Curriculum. This is
a five week or five month course. I recommend it
doing it over the course of five months, and this
course is designed not only to help you understand your fear,
to accept your fear, to begin to uh retrain your
brain with the fear, to test your fear every day,
(34:40):
and then ultimately to live with courage and to deal
with your fear as a motivational component to go help
you achieve your purpose in life. So don't waste time.
Go to David Brotherford dot com and check out our
Embrace Fear Curriculum. Thank you. One of my favorite aspects
of like your Ted Talk and I bust to watched
(35:01):
it four times there's so much great information was that
when you did get remarried, you spent that first five years,
you know, just being with your son and you know,
and spent really leaning in as that father figure, you know.
But I do recognize there's that's not always the case.
And we have a pretty high percentage of single mothers
(35:22):
out there raising boys, and as a result, we see
the increase in connectivity, right, we see it through video games.
And then the one that really is the most disturbing
for me and what I'm I don't you know, I'm
trying to find the science on it, but the impact
(35:43):
of access to pornography at an early age, with young
men decreasing their competency and intimacy, which makes them, you know,
less attractive to want to have good, more meaningful relationships
at younger ages. And it's just the hook up culture
in that whole thing. Where do you see solutions in
(36:04):
those problems like what can a single mother do to
address a hyperconnective kid? And and well there's too many
video games, too much pornography, or just you know, just
messing around on social media, which is all you know,
has a catastrophic effect on that neurological component as well too.
So I'd love to hear your thoughts on those things.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Number one is get the biological dead involved. If you say, well,
the biological dad doesn't want to be involved, these irresponsible
take a look at all the contributions that a biological
dead makes that we don't. We have no clue of
why the biological dead is important even before the child
is born. How how to spend time learning why there
(36:52):
why there's in the dead brain. There's a whole series
of neurons that don't connect until the dead begins to
perceive that his role with the new born baby is
to be involved with that newborn baby, that role begins,
and those those new neurons that are that might be
called the you know, the seat of the motherhood instinct
(37:12):
the fatherhood instinct. They don't connect if the father only
perceives that his value is earning money, but if he
perceives that his value is being with the child and
doing the things like the boundary enforcement, things like teasing,
things like letting the child have take risks but that
are short of life death risks, teaching that child emotional
(37:34):
intelligence dad style, all those things are so necessary. And
when a father knows that he's needed, as you know,
men who are told they are needed, like during World
War two or any important war, we will be willing
to kill and be killed. And it's as dangerous to
(37:54):
it says, traumatizing. It's extremely traumatizing for a man to
to kill as well as it is to be killed, obviously,
And so that's so men. When when men know they're needed,
they're willing to kill or be killed. But when they're
told that they're needed to love. It's a lot easier
(38:14):
to love and be loved than it is to kill
and be killed. And so we so we when so
when a mom says, you know, I didn't realize there
was value to your rough housing. I didn't realize it
was rally to your teasing. I didn't realize there was
value to what you to the things you do, even
though that you couldn't express what those values were. I
now understand what that is. You're needed now. And even
(38:38):
when I was, I ran for governor of California and
I spoke to prison populations and about ninety percent of
the prisoners were dad deprived prison males. And when I
told them of the importance of fathers, many of those
men tattoos and muscles like I'll never have you know,
(38:58):
said you know it would come up to me and say,
doctor Ferrell, can I tell you that I never thought
I was for any use to anybody in my life,
and therefore I might as well stay in prison. But
now I want to do everything that I can to
get out of prison as soon as possible, so I
can prevent my children from becoming the type of person
I became, make the type of mistakes I made. And
(39:19):
so the first thing is to try to get the
biological dad involved. If there's no option for that the
dad is dead, then I ask you to get involved,
get a stepdad involved, but most step dads are reduced
to the position of advisor. So learn in the Boy
(39:40):
Crisis Book how to create a real equal relationship with
the stepdad. And stepdads almost always love you and they
really want to care deeply for the children, but they
can't care for the children if they're told that all
their suggestions are secondary to your to your ideas. They
(40:00):
have to be equal partners, and you have to learn
from them as well as them learning from you. And
so that's step number two. Step number three is making
sure that if there's no possibility of a step dad,
and there's no possibility of the biological dad, is making
sure that you connect with the school and learn who
(40:21):
make sure the boy is involved in that I'm sorry,
make sure that you do the boundary enforcement, not the
boundary setting, but the boundary enforcement that that dad doesn't do,
and then contact the school and make sure that the
boy is involved in at least two or three of
(40:42):
the three types of sports that are so important what
I call the liberal arts of sports, and the liberal
arts of sports are pick up team sports, organized team sports,
and sports where you focus on largely your own competence,
like in tennis, or gymnastics, but that contribute to the team.
(41:03):
And so all three of those sports develop different skill
sets that I discussed in the Boy Crisis book that
you need to have your son be involved in. If
your son is unwilling to be involved in those sports,
deprive him of things or or her of things until
they get involved in sports. You have the control. So
(41:23):
often when when moms are talking, they say some version
of you know, well, I can prevent my children from
bringing elect electronics to the table. They just they just
do it. And the answer is, you can prevent the
children from doing that. You just take the electronics from them.
You don't resubscribe to their to their to their subscriptions.
(41:45):
They're you know, they're there. They have their door closed
and there can and they are looking at porn on
the computer. Keep the door open. They insist on closing
the door. Take the computer out of the out of
the room and put it into the living room. And
till they learn to do those things and have the
courage to be disliked by your children, who will in
(42:07):
the long run deeply deeply appreciate the discipline that they
have gotten that has not led them to be to
go down the road by the time they're addicted to
porn or video games, that's down the line. You haven't
done the work of making it clear that there's no
(42:29):
option but for them to do their homework, to do
the chores. They can't manipulate their way out of it.
Children that learn to be able to manipulate their way
out of it because you've set boundaries but haven't enforced
them lose respect for you. Wow. And the deepest price
is not just losing respect for you, but them not
(42:51):
having the discipline to be able to do the things
that are necessary for their own growth and postpone gratification.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
That's fantastic. That's absolutely, uh phenomenal advice right there. I
just uh, you know, I I see so many times
my friends that have been gone and years and years
of deployments, and the greatest thing that they they're challenged
with is they always say the same like they're like, hey,
(43:21):
rot man, I'm I'm now that I'm out, I have
to get to know my children again. I'm reintroducing myself
into their lives and understand what they're doing, you know.
And that's a challenging thing for men that have been
entrenched in that sacrificial space. And but I guess you
know what I hear in you discuss a lot is
(43:44):
you know that's that pre program then that comes from
however you were raised, Like I'm just the bread earner.
I've got to go be the sacrifice. I got to
be the sacrificial lamb. If you will to come and
reintroduce the mindset is no. The greatest place I'm going
to be fulfilled is the time I spend with my children,
my legacy and teach them as they merge, you know,
(44:06):
and and help shape them absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
There. If if we ever do get to be able
to create the White House counsel and Boys and Men,
one of the first things that needs to happen is
to work to make sure that every veteran when he
comes or she comes back home, that there is that
there's important communication training about both the mother and the
(44:31):
father being able to understand what the other one's life
is like and how to integrate those two lives together,
because oftentimes it's the man that said the veteran, and
he comes home and the woman has her whole structure
set up, she has the things that are her routine,
and from her perspective, the dad's ideas are all criticisms
(44:53):
of her. And you know she got along well enough
she did. You know she did what she did. And
the kids are the way they are, and so let
the be and stop trying to make them into something different.
Whereas he's whereas from his perspective, I finished one mission
where I was willing to die. Now I have a
new mission, and that mission is to be a good father,
(45:14):
a good husband, and I want to I want to
have something to contribute. And in fact, he has a
huge amount to contribute, that's potential to contribute, and now
it's and but those two, those two different worlds need
to be integrated, and time takes time and training to
(45:36):
know how the man and the woman can hear each
other's perspective. Or if it's two women or two men
in a gay situation, they need to hear each other's perspective.
It's on how that integration can be made so that
both the mother and the person taking care of the
children can have heard her his job much more, much
(45:59):
more red in challenge, and that the person coming in
has something to offer, because they do have something to offer.
It's not just a matter of making that person feel useful.
They can be very useful, or else the whole relationship
will fall apart. The children will be raised without their dead,
that they will not know the value of their dead,
(46:21):
and the children's chance of doing well in life is
extremely reduced.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
As you were talking about this, that integration and that
positive integration one of the things that I've seen happen
quite a bit. And it's not just within the veteran community.
I think it's with you know, whatever constitutes and quotations
deadbeat dads. Right, the legal system has now you know,
really contorted itself to go after and kind of punish
(46:50):
those dads in particular cases, and we see these really
intense aggressive judges and different areas that that that will
implement these kind of draconian challenges to fathers reintegrating with
their dads. Why do you think that's taken place? And
how do what can we do within from a a
(47:15):
you know, a system like you know, you know, Florida
passed that law, gave seventy five million. What can we
see within the judiciary system to begin to support those
dads and getting back integrated with those children too. Why
is it so important?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
This is an extremely important question and answer the You know,
by the way, in Florida, there were three bills passed.
One was that seventy five million dollars that I mentioned
that passed the House in Florida by the vote of
every the unanimous vote of every single Republican and every
single Democrat. And this, you know, in this day and
(47:50):
age and finding that type of grads a miracle is
a miracle. Yes. Second, another bill that was passed it
by Florida was equals shared parenting, and that's been a
very hard that that is required as the predominant, the
go to starting place short of any parent being abusive
(48:11):
or you know, alcoholic in some type of way. So
that's what needs to happen in every state. There are
about four or five states that have that now, but
most states do not. A number of states are moving
toward that now. You ask the question, why is there
just not the assumption of equal shared parenting everywhere. It's
(48:32):
because we grew up thinking that, you know, that moms
were so much more important than dad's. It wasn't until
about fifty years ago well, and the beginning of understanding
something differently was the Moyna Hand Report in nineteen sixty five.
And the Moyna Hand Report found that when they first
started doing the Moya Hand Report, there was the fear
(48:54):
that they would be blaming the black community of black
people for being really bad people or not having effectiveness
with their children. But the Moyna Hen Report found in
studying inner city violence is that the violence happened almost
six exclusively among that twenty five percent of black families
(49:18):
in which there was a minimal or no dad involvement.
That is, they were all dad The great majority of
children that were into problem situations that it committed crime
that we're dealing with, joining gangs that were dealing drugs,
those were dad deprived children. So it was not blacks
or negroes as they called them at the time, that
(49:39):
were the problem. It was the dad deprivation. Now, remember
I said there was twenty five percent at that time
of children were brought up in in dad deprived homes. Today,
in the black community it is seventy two percent, and
in the Caucasian community it is thirty two percent, which
(50:02):
is seven percent higher than the twenty five percent it
was in the black community in nineteen sixty five. And
it's in that group of people the dad deprived group
of people that the problems tend to occur. So in
the old days, we just assume that if there's a separation,
it should be the mother that takes care of the children.
(50:24):
In the very old days, in the eighteen hundreds, the
children stayed with the father and not the mother. But
then for a long period of history, the children were
assumed to be better off with the mother, And in
fact we find that the children do best off in
the boy Crisis. But I did the research for the
(50:44):
Boy Crisis book. I ended up with four must dos
after divorce. In case somebody's listening to this, The first
must do is approximately an equal amount of time spent
with the children by both the dad and the mom.
Number two, the children are not able to detect any
bad mouthing from mom to dad or dad to mom.
(51:05):
When children, let's say a boy is hearing that his
father is irresponsible, a liar, and a narcissist. Well, that
boy looks in the mirror and he notices that my
nose and my hair and my body language is a
lot like my dad. Well, if I'm being told that
my dad is a narcissist and irresponsible in a liar,
well I have lied, and I am looking in the
(51:27):
mirror now and so maybe I'm that way. Also, so
when you bad mouth the other parent, you are bad
mouthing that half of the child that is biologically the
other parent. It is child abused to bad mouth the
other parent. And so the second must do is no
(51:50):
bad mouthing that the child can either hear or detect.
So if you said I had a great time at
mom's house last night, and you're the dad, you go, okay,
so what else did you do? And you and the
child gets the the gets the cue pretty quickly that
no positive attention is coming to me if I talk
(52:12):
about things that I liked about my mom, and so
that that's another form of bad mouthing. Third, the third
must do after divorce. In case of divorce is that
there's is that the mother and father live within about
a twenty minute drive time from each other. And the
reason for that is if they if if it's further
(52:33):
than that, then there's a Then oftentimes the child feels
like it has to give up the soccer practice, or
it has to give up going to it's it's friends recital,
not recital, you know, friend's birthday party, and so and
therefore there's resentment in going to the other parents house.
And the fourth must do is that the parents be
(52:54):
involved at least once a month in couples counseling so
that so that they can learn to hear the other
partner's perspective on on things.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Wow, that's that's wonderful. That's exactly what I was looking for. Doc.
I can't thank you enough. Before we finish, can you
talk about your new book? What's going on? Uh? Where
people can find you and and and and then how
they can they support you? Trying to get uh President
(53:27):
Trump to initiate this, uh, this initiative in the White House.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yes, on the on the initiative in the White House.
If you know someone who is connected with the White House,
that is a really good start to to to contact me.
My contact information is on my website Warrenferrell dot com,
w w W Warrentrell dot com, The Warren. It's like
Warren Buffett, but without the money.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Well, your your wisdom's invaluable.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Sir, Thank you. And the Pharaoh is f A R
R E l L. Some people do like Will Ferrell.
I'm not that funny, and so just it's f A
R R E l L dot com and there is
and then contact me from through my my email address
which is Warren at Warrenferrell dot com and let me
(54:20):
know about that. But the Boy Crisis book is available
both in audible and in and you know, in all
the other formats. And the most recent book that you
asked about was the book a book called Rolemate to Soulmate,
and the Rolemate to Soulmate is focused on how to
(54:41):
be able to hear personal criticism without becoming defensive and
seven other major problems that couples tend to get into
that lead to the divorces that lead to the boy crisis.
And so this is sort of stopping the boy crisis
at its root cause. But it's also learning to keep
marriages together. In my opinion, the best work and most
(55:05):
important work that I do is the work in role
Made to Soulmate, because I've seen more marriages kept together
and more relationships kept together as a result of learning
those skill sets, all of which are biologically unnatural to learn.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Doc you've you just keep helping man talk about service
and talk about that sense of blade gratification and that
sense of sacrifice for others and your epitome of that representation.
It's been an incredible honor to have you on my show,
and I wish you all the best and good luck
(55:40):
with what you're doing. And I will keep handling that
book out, I promise.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
And I really feel honored to be on the show
with somebody who's who's lived life like you've lived and
raised three daughters and really contributed to the country and
overcome barriers that I can't even begin to imagine myself overcoming.
So thank you to God, bless you said don't stay
Ba
If we say what our fears are to a woman,
a woman oftentimes will lose respect for us. If we
say it to other men, the men whose respect for us.
So where is the incentive to open up and to
get in touch with our feelings? The most important single
thing is Dad's understanding that children benefit more from dad's
time than dad's does.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
For the past thirty years of my life, I have
been dedicated towards trying to understand what aspects of the
human condition enable us to succeed or what drives failure.
Now a massive part of my learning, my education has
been focused on training young men since I was a
seal instructor to an instructor at Blackwater, instructor for the CIA,
(00:46):
running my own private training motivational company, working with pro athletes,
mentoring young dozens of young men in terms of their
dreams of either becoming athletes or becoming Special Operations Force members.
And I'm here to tell you that in all of
that experience, one of the most profound impactful things that
I've ever come across in terms of my research and
(01:08):
my understanding of the core problems is through doctor Ferrell
in his book The Boy Crisis. This book has been
one of the most impactful pieces of literature and pieces
of information that I've ever found. And it is a
distinct honor for me to have you on today with us, Doc,
(01:28):
So God bless you and thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Well, I have to say it's an honor for me
to be with someone who has gone through the incredible
trials and tribulations of becoming a Navy seal and the
dedication that that shows towards the country and what you did,
what you must have done inside of yourself to overcome
barrier after burrier after barrier, and something I could never
(01:52):
even begin to think about doing. You know what I do.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, I'll tell you what man as a fighter, from
where you've been in your life, whether it was the
early you know, powerful feminist movement of the seventies, back
when it's it was in its purest forms, to to
what you've been doing lately, you know, in the multiple
books that you have out and and you know, uh,
and I want to talk about those at the end
for sure. But one of the things that really just
(02:17):
kind of pushed me over the edge. Not only was
it my buddy Dan at the Citizens podcast for sure,
who I love dearly, but also it's your your course
on the Peterson Academy. I was I think I signed
up for that that the Academy in the first month
that was available and saw your course there, and I
was just overwhelmed that so many people would have access
(02:41):
to your information in that capacity. So, you know, I'm
really excited. But let's jump right into this. So you know,
if I'm pretty sure everybody has has heard you, that's
listening to.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Me right now.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So I don't want to I don't want to spend
too much time giving your background, but I want jump
right into these key themes and just kind of go
down the list. And so we'll start with the crisis
of education. And for me, COVID was a particular moment
where things got exaggerated on all levels for mental health,
(03:18):
but in particular for children. Right we saw girls teenage
suicide increase by fifty percent. Now I have four daughters,
so a static like that like was shattering to me.
And then you know, we saw all different types of
increases and you know, pharmaceutical applications, doctor's visits in particular
with boys, boys suicide shot up as well too. So
(03:42):
based on that post COVID experience with you. Where do
we sit in the crisis of education with boys in America?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
We're in a very serious place. The crisis of education
happens especially in among boys who do have minimal or
no father president but boys that I call dad deprived.
We can't say fatherless boys, because every boy has a father,
but some boys are deprived of involvement of their father.
(04:11):
And oftentimes successful men are just devoted to their family
that they experience what I call the father's cash twenty two.
They learn to love their family by being away from
their love of their family and being successful. But it's
but what really ends up being of value to boys
is not the success of the dad, but rather the
(04:32):
involvement of the dad, the taking of the of the
the rough housing every day, the teasing, even though mom
may sort of say, you know what, rough housing, I
feel like I have just one more child demonitor, or
the you know, the treath like you know you made
Jimmy or Jane cry, why did you do that? You're
so insensitive? But you know, it's it's understanding the value
(04:54):
of dad style parenting that leads to boys being so
much more able to to handle life, to overcome barriers
to to know how to and to know how to empathize,
and you know, and believe it or not, the rough
housing on the part of a parent ninety nine percent
of the time, usually it's the father, but it can
(05:16):
also be the mother. The rough housing leads to empathy.
So can you imagine a dad saying, you know, sweetie,
I want to sweedie, meaning the mom I want to
I know, I want a rough house with whether my
three kids because you know they're going to be really
that I'm going to want to increase their empathy. And Mom, ago,
you must be kidding, And you know how many dads
(05:36):
would even know that rough housing is connected to empathy.
But the reason it's connected empathy is let's say you
have three kids and you have you say you put
them on the couch and say, okay, you know your
job is to jump on my back and pin me
down before I bend the three of you down, And
they get all excited, and mom is looking on and going,
oh my god, what's going to happen here? Somebody is
(05:59):
going to get hurt sooner or later. But on the
other hand, I don't want to interfere. I don't want
to be controlling, and I can see to be having fun.
I just hope Dad will know not to be too
rough with him. And you know, but I just fear
that somebody's going to get hurt. And your chances are
about ninety nine percent. Mom's right. Somebody gets hurt eventually
the first time, the second, and you know, Mom goes,
(06:20):
oh my god, I should have interfered. I should have
said something. Now I feel guilty that it didn't say something,
but I guess you know, Dad will you know now
you can see that somebody did get hurt, so it'll
he'll stop. But you know, the dad says, okay, you know,
if you do this again, if you put your elbow
into your sister's eye like that, you know you're going
to be you know, there'll be no more rough housing.
(06:41):
And Mom goes, what, you're giving them another chance? You
must be crazy and so and then sure enough Mom's
right again. The kids, you know, forget the boundaries, and
and they somebody hurts the other one, and now Dad
says everything that's crucial. He says, okay, you're He doesn't
set the boundary, he enforces the boundary and said, I
(07:03):
gave you that boundary. Now you violated it. Rough housing
over It's like telling a puppy dog, okay, you did
exactly the opposite of what I told you to do.
You know, pooped in the house, and so now there's
no treat, and so now is where the change begins
to happen. The next time the rough housing happens, and
(07:27):
dad says, you know, consider your sister and brothers feelings,
don't you know, don't put the don't be too rough.
The kids know that they're going to lose the rough
housing because they have lost that rough housing last time.
Dad didn't set a boundary. He enforced a boundary. And
one of the biggest differences between dads and moms on average,
(07:51):
and sometimes this is reversed, is that moms set more boundaries,
so they'll set bedtimes let's say at eight thirty, and
supervised by dads, we'll set boundaries a little bit later,
like nine o'clock. But the children supervised by dads are
more likely to get to bed earlier, not because the
boundaries were set earlier, but rather because the boundaries were enforced.
(08:14):
The child is more likely to come up to mom
and say, you know, oh Mom, I didn't get my
homework done. You don't want me to go into school
tomorrow without doing my homework to you, And Mom goes, oh,
I did tell you to get off the phone with
Jane or Jim whatever, you know, and you spend an
hour and a half in the phone. You should you
could have been doing your homework during that, but you're right,
I don't want you to go into school tomorrow without
(08:36):
having your homework done. Okay, do your homework, And so
the kid learns, aha, I can do home, I can
get away with it, whereas dad is more likely to
do They say the same thing the first time, but
the second time Dad will almost always enforce the boundary
to say, sorry, you're going to have to go in
tomorrow to school without doing your homework. That's the consequence
(08:57):
that you're paying now and are divorced. You know, divorced,
are separated. Can you imagine imagine the mom hearing that
the child was allowed to go into school without doing
the homework without understanding that that's part of boundary enforcement
and the consequence the kids learns that feels like a
dad that's neglectful of the child. And that's one of
(09:19):
the reasons that so many moms often feel like, I
don't want the dad to have father time because she
because no one understands the value of father time.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Hm. Wow, that that that well when you I mean,
obviously I did a little bit of psychology when I
was in school back in the day, and of course
you introduced to behavioralism and you're talking about BF skinner
and and and all the you know, the those consequences, right, pa,
aw that its origin and and you know, I think
(09:54):
what the interesting because I went through divorce and there
was definitely different types of things is taking place at
both houses, and so it was much more difficult to
rein in those consequences when I because I travel a lot.
I've always traveled a lot, So I'd come home and
I was kind of the dad weekend and the girls
would be like, Okay, you know, it's fun time with dad.
(10:17):
But then it was always that establishment. And one of
the things that you of those boundaries, one of the
things that I love that you integrate with it is
really the development of that empathy concept.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
It's it's teaching your sons to have a higher emotional
intelligence earlier. Why do you think that that's good instead
of more leaning into teaching your kid to be in
our world, we call it the warrior mindset, right, Why
do you believe that it has to be more of
(10:49):
a balance between those Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, first, yes, I was just complete one thought there
that I realized I left out the empathy I was
saying at the beginning of that rough housing that Dad
was saying that I want to teach the children empathy.
Therefore I want to do rough housing. And that seems
like so counterintuitive, But what's happening there and the boundaries
being enforced, is that the children are required in order
(11:12):
to continue the rough housing, they're required to think of
their sisters and brothers feelings about being hurt. That begins
to create empathy. It also creates postpone gratification. Immediate gratification
will be pushing my brother and sister aside to be
able to win at the rough housing. Postpone gratification is
I want to push my brother and sister aside to
(11:33):
win at the rough housing, but if I do, I'll
lose the rough housing. So therefore, in order to get
what I want, I have to postpone the gratification of
pushing my brother and sister aside in order to get
what I really want, which is the continuation of the
rough housing and postponed gratification is the single biggest predictor
(11:54):
of success or failure in life. And boat genders too, right, yes, absolutely,
And so the females have a tendency to be able
to They're able to sit down longer, they're able to
obey rules, they're able to take notes. Guys have to
have much more physical activity before they're really able to
(12:16):
focus and concentrate. And getting to that point, I forgot
the question that you.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Know, it's all right, it's all right, the idea is right.
I think a lot of a lot of misconceptions is
that you know we if you don't, especially as we've
seen the pretty significant societal demasculization of young boys, right,
we've reduced rough house play in school, the punitive damages
(12:42):
on kids, right, And the one that kills me more
than I is more than anything, is the hyper diagnosis
of ADHD, the implementation of pharmaceuticals, putting these kids on
these drugs for long terms, which leads I mean the
rabbit hole we can go down. That it is a
whole nother show in and of itself, with mass shootings
and all that. But the critical nature of being able
(13:04):
to have that physicality matched by, like you said, that
delayed gratification, which in and of itself the emotional intelligence emerges.
How does that take place or where is it kind
of uh stilted in that next prepubescence and puberty phase
(13:24):
because I've I've fixated on that group more than any
other group. Right, because if you do have the fatherless
boys or however you want it, you know less that
what do you call it? You call it deprivation?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Sorry? You know these kids are the boundaries are never
in place, and so how do you where do you
focus with those things in terms of the emotional intelligence
while while sustaining the war your mindset or warrior ethos
if you will, in that critical prepubescence in puberty phase.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, so much in the question there where.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
We're have a tendency dot I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
No, that's great. So the first thing here is that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Thank you so much for listening. Again, apologize for the interruption,
but I want to just tell you about our one
of our core sponsors, Firecracker Farms. Now, Uh, if you
want to spice up your life, that means you need
to spice up your food I'm done with the hot sauces.
I'm done with all that nonset. What I go to
now is Firecracker Farms and it's three Kings technology, right.
(14:38):
That's the mixing of the hottest peppers into these beautiful,
this beautiful spicy salt that I just peppered a hell
out of my eggs in the morning, my steak at night. Man,
this is one of the best products I've ever had.
It's really just brought a whole new, nuanced approach to
how my food tastes and my enjoyment of it. And
you know what the kicker this whole thing, it's a
(15:00):
family run business, and I love those family run business
my body. Alex and his family put their heart and
soul and delivering this incredible product. So go visit Firecracker
dot Farm, punch in promo code of RUT one five
that's Romeo Uniform Tango and get your taste buds going
bo yahs.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Where we need to go in the future is to
create this balance between heroic intelligence and health intelligence. And
heroic intelligence is wonderful up to a point, meaning that
it gives us the opportunity to know how to overcome
boundaries to do things that aren't easy for us to
do like you did with it. Every single step of
(15:42):
being a Navy seal is just like doubting yourself Okay,
no I can do it. Then maybe failing here or
at a time or two, instead of giving up and
saying I can't do it, having the resilience to come
back and try again, and to sort of you know,
and rather than hear people constantly around you complaining that
demoralizes you. Having people around you saying no, I can
(16:05):
do it, and focusing on that, that's you know, more
heroic intelligence. However, it's also important to know that to
become a hero. Let's say you're in boot camp and
the sergeant. Let's say you're Jewish, and the sergeant is
makes a comment like, okay, look at you know, he
(16:26):
makes some type of anti submitted comment, and you raise
your hand and say, excuse me, sergeant sir, But you know,
I was really I'm Jewish, and I was really offended
by that anti submitted comment. Now the response to the
sergeant will be something like, isn't that little sweet? Look?
We have a little Jewish boy here. Why don't you
do ten push ups? Jewish boy? If you can do
(16:47):
a push up. Do you know what a push up is, sweetie?
You know very much?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Sounds about right right there.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Maybe a little sergeant, there's.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Why in all of us you know that?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
And so yeah, and so the boy and so why
is the sergeant doing that. The sergeant is doing that
because the sergeant knows that the war machine does not
operate well with squeaky wheels and when people complain, and
that that that your job is being part of that
war machine, is being willing to die and do everything
(17:28):
that you need to do without concern for yourself and
your feelings or your fears, but to overcome your fears
and to recognize that, yes you will, you have a
good chance of dying, and if you don't have a
good chance of dying, you'll come maybe back with PTSD.
And that is your job. And you know, and if
(17:49):
if somebody and if you make close friends, it's going
to hurt all the more if a really close friend
dies in your hands or you or it gets you know,
shot and it is not quite killed, and you spend
a lot of time rescuing him or her, and maybe
you'll get killed in the process. But that's exactly what
your job is. So don't focus on your fears, don't
(18:13):
focus on your feelings. Now, that is extremely healthy for
people who are willing being trained to die to trying
to be disposable. And that was the male role, was
to be willing to be disposable. Men were really trained
to be the disposable sex, either in war or in
work either. As you know, all the hazardous jobs, ninety
(18:36):
three percent of the people that are killed on hazardous
jobs are males. I think of your construction workers, your
long haul truck drivers, you know your people who are
logging trees, all of your welders. Those are all male
dominated jobs because the males are much more likely to
be willing to risk their lives doing those jobs. And
(18:59):
so that, yes, that is useful for doing the jobs
that are necessary for survival, for the survival of the nation.
We are not being ruled by Nazis because we had
millions of men all over the world that have died
preventing us from having to be ruled by Nazis. And
so this is this is the positive value of that,
(19:21):
but it's also the negative value because those men learned
to repress their feelings and give no thought to themselves,
and so when they came home from if they did
manage to survive the process and came home, men are
twenty times as likely to die of suicide as they
(19:41):
are to die in any given year in a war.
And so that is really and so that means that
their emotional intelligence, their willingness to speak up and say,
you know, I really was offended by that, or I
really am hurt, or you know, my leg I think it,
you know, is infected, and it could come off and
(20:03):
say what we feel that has been that has been neglected,
and the result of that is twofold. You mentioned before
that you know that we that we're oftentimes lonely and
we don't have friends, and that that lowliness creates and
mental health problems, and especially during COVID, and so this
has been but even outside of COVID, if we say
(20:27):
what our fears are to a woman, a woman oftentimes
will lose respect for us because we're sort of talking
about we fear that a woman will lose respect for
us because we're showing vulnerability and she wanted a strong man.
If we say it to other men, the men lose
respect for us. So where is the incentive to be
to open up and to get in touch with our feelings.
We men are very bottom line, and we know that
(20:49):
if there's if we can't express our feelings in the
long run, why even get in touch with them in
the short run, because it's only going to go to
some place that's going to frustrate us. So we will
be able to do that. So we're not even in
touch with our feelings because we know that there's nowhere
down the line than anyone wants to know who we are.
So we spent the last half a century focusing on
(21:11):
women and women's problems with that, and women don't think
that we have problems, but I think that we're filled
with power and we're you know, we're the male patriarchy
and things like that, because we haven't said anything and
women can't hear what men don't say.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
That's brilliant, that's brilliant, you knows. I as I think
about what you're saying, because I mean, I've I've lost
a last count, I think it's sixteen of my friends
have committed suicide in the last seven years alone, you know,
or I'm averaging about four or five a year, and
(21:46):
a lot of that is well, you know, we have
a concept. It's you know, a little bit more than PTSD.
It's called operator syndrome, and it's a unique constellation about
seventeen different medical mental health things, and one of those
in the metal health side is this existential shortfault. Right,
you get engaged in that deeper level purpose and then
(22:08):
when you come back to re engage in the more
mundane or you know, I don't I think mundane always
has almost a negative connotation, right, the application of skill
sets every day that make your life function, that take
care of your family or you know, to take care
of yourself, I think that you lose that the desire
(22:30):
isn't as much as it was when you're at the
higher level. And so I I see with young men
what I always try to do is I try and
you know, put them in a physical environment, break them
down physically, to create the space to where, hey, let's
have the discussion of why the motivation is coming up short?
Why are you not what right now do you want
(22:52):
to push yourself? What type? Is there something fatalistic that
it's not going to have no relevance long term. You
don't have the capacity all those things that you you
had talked about that definitely went through my brain and
training with the with young men right now, Where are
you seeing specific types of programs that are positively impacting
(23:16):
young men, that are that are teaching them these variables
from the emotional intelligence right to to the that sense
of relieving the economic presupposed pressure of your only the breadwinner,
you're only this, and then you know also you know
the consequences of society. I love that idea, the consequences
(23:39):
of society. I think, Brain, what programs are really working
well in your opinion that exists right now?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I think the most important single thing that's been done
is in Florida. There was the Speaker of the House
there did read the Boy Crisis and use them with
his kids, and when he found that it worked well
for he and he and his life were together, they
were married, they had three or four kids, and it
worked well there. They gave the boy Crisis to the
(24:07):
head of the Republican head and the Democratic head of
the family committees within the Florida legislature, and they ended
up passing a bill contributing seventy million dollars of funds
to help mothers understand the value of fathers and fathers
understand their own value, all the things that I mentioned
(24:29):
before about their rough housing, and in the Boy Crisis book,
there's just a whole list of things that dads tend
to do, like teasing, like taking kids camping, like letting
kids get lost, but not so lost that they can't
find the way back ultimately.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But now is my job as an instructor in the
seal teams. I let them get lost?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Wow? Yeah, and tell me about that?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
What was the well, I mean, it's the consequence, and
I think think you know the the you know, what
I've found raising Ford daughters is that the the adaptation
of the consequence into the behavioral shift happens so much
more rapidly than any other of the young men I've
(25:18):
mentored in my life. It's a it's a much more
subtle process with them, but they require deeper level consequences.
So in our training, you know, the consequence is death
in our world, so we have, you know, these wide
spectrums of allowing them to fail, and that failure so
failure in my mind and in my world, and kind
(25:40):
of how I teach it failure is this. I call
it the positive application of pain, right, and I get
the shift in perception of what pain actually is, and
that we need those pain points, we need those consequences
to reverberate in that emotional state. Right, Yes, I'm afraid,
but it's also co mingled with the idea of courage. Right,
(26:02):
And so you have courage that draws the motivation. You
go out, you fail, you learn profound lessons, then come back.
And then if if you have the right role model,
the right teacher, the right influence, they'll help you adapt
that that the intensity that that intensity of that consequence
to shift, but your change in behavior more rapidly. Yes,
(26:25):
And so I think for boys they have a much
more intense need for the heavier consequence that that pain
versus girls, they learn they adapt much quicker.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You know, it's probably quite true. And and and that's
and it's really so for a parent imagining this, Let's
say here's a here here might be a typical scenario.
A child comes up to a mom and says, you know, mom,
I'm gonna climb the tree in the backyard. And mom goes, uh, well, sweety,
maybe in a few years, okay, but you know, don't
(26:58):
you can't do that now. It's the tree is too
tall and there's new branches and you could the branches
could break and it's much too dangerous. So the child
goes up to the dad and says, dad, could I
climb the tree? I'm not telling her, not telling dad
what Mom said. And Dad says, well, it's a big tree,
so be careful, sweetie, but yeah, yeah, okay. And so
(27:19):
then the cake climbs the tree and mom looks out
the window and says, wait, I told you you couldn't
climb the tree. Well Dad said that could and so
you know, and so what's happening there and what is
needed and so we have a really good example of
the difference between mom style parenting and dad's style parenting,
and the and the ideal is to have what I
would call checks and balanced parenting, and so so the
(27:41):
connection there needs to be something like this type of dialogue.
You know, I told Jane she couldn't climb the tree
because it's, you know, too tall, and you just let
her go ahead and do that, well dad, and Dad
says what dads don't say because dads don't know these things.
And as I said before, moms can't hear what dad's
and say. Is that when when kids take a risk
(28:03):
like that, they actually learn to balance what is a
safe risk versus what is not safe risk and to
draw the line there. And then your neurons begin to
connect in ways that they're not needed to connect otherwise
you actually increase your intelligence. And that's you know, that's
study base, that's the data for that. It's in the
(28:23):
boy crisis, and so you and so, but so Dad
has to first inform himself of what is the actual
value that is proven in Dad's style parenting and then
kindly share that with the mom, while mom shares what
the value of mom style parenting is, like I want
to prevent our daughter or son from getting killed by
(28:45):
going up too high and falling too far or and
and they're not old enough to make those decisions yet,
and so what might be a good compromise there? Mom
might say some version of Okay, me or Jane can
climb that tree, but you need to be under that
tree so that in case they do fall, you can
(29:07):
cushion the fall. So when there's a risk that could
end up being life or death or severe concussion risk,
then or in the direction of being safe. But on
the other hand, you want to have the ability to
take risk and to know how to avoid failure in
that type of deeper way and to increase the intelligence
(29:28):
toward that end. So mom might say, you need to
be under the tree, and by the way, give me
your cell phone while you're under that tree. And then
you have that the child getting the best of both worlds.
They have a chance to sort of take risks, increase
their intelligence, understand where that fine line is between too
(29:50):
much of a risk and not generating new brain cells
that help you know where, where and when to take
a a risk. And so those are you know, that's
just an example of, you know, of how dads and
moms really need to understand the value of each child's parenting.
(30:12):
But a lot of what dads do looks like it
is dangerous or bad idea, a bad idea to the
mom who isn't informed this way. So from the mother's perspective,
you know, the dad that lets the child take too
much of a risk is just not caring about the kid.
And so and that's why dads need to really inform
(30:33):
themselves as to what the value of that is. And
like what they did in Florida is they develop programs
that inform dads about their value and inform moms about
dad's value and dad involvement is actually a woman's issue.
Every woman I dated between I was married for quite
(30:55):
a while and then divorced for a while, and then
thirty years ago I met the woman who became my
wife and is my wife. And in between the almost
all the women I dated were single moms, And every
single single mom used the word overwhelmed. And she was
also disappointed in herself. She felt that there was you
(31:17):
know that she she didn't do her job with children
well enough, and she didn't do her job at work
well enough, and just sort of felt like disappointed in herself.
And she was constantly a lifelong juggling act. But her
number one word was overwhelmed. Well, why should moms have
to be overwhelmed? Moms should be inviting dads in to
(31:38):
share that the joys and the burdens of raising children,
even if they're divorced and so and so. This is
part of what Florida was doing, and this is part
of what you know that I'm working to create. A
White House counsel and boys and men were putting out
a lot of messages to the Trump administration that there
needs to be a White House counsel and the family
(31:59):
with sex for boys and men in sections for women
and girls. And and this is what you know that
needs needs to happen. Now that that's big programs. On
the level of small programs, there's there's programs like Mark
Schullinger's Young Men's Ultimate Weekend in California. There's programs like
Boys to Men, Uh this program. There there are things
(32:21):
called the sheds in many countries where men get together
and they talk about their feelings and their fears and
their and their strengths. And so all these types of
things are needed. And uh, there's the there's so much
that there's a fair amount that's going on, but there's
not nearly enough that's going on. Many Christian schools and
(32:45):
Christian efforts are being made to to work with boys
to help them become stronger young men, and and so
all of these things together are needed at the at
the but the most important single thing is dad's understanding
why their role. Once the family earns about fifty to
(33:07):
seventy thousand dollars a year, the Harvard Longitudinal studies show
that the children benefit more from dad's time than dad's time.
The first fifty to seventy thousand, depending on where you're
living in the United States, is needed for survival, but
after that, the time with the father is more valuable
than the money that the father makes.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
What I want to just talk to you a little
bit about is our new Embrace Fear curriculum that's available
on David Rutherford dot com. It's a part of the
Frog Logic Institute, which is going to be an emerging
group of core products or core curriculum that I've been
working on over the past thirty years. The first in
(33:55):
line is learning to embrace your fear. Fear is thenumber
one emotion that impedes us from achieving anything that we
truly put want to put our minds to right. It's
that emotion that's wired in you've been taught at your
whole life. It's it's that that one thing that you
really have to get a hold of. Now here's the deal,
it's there's no such thing as fearless. So please go
(34:18):
to David Brotherford dot com, check out go to courses,
and sign up for your Embrace Fear Curriculum. This is
a five week or five month course. I recommend it
doing it over the course of five months, and this
course is designed not only to help you understand your fear,
to accept your fear, to begin to uh retrain your
brain with the fear, to test your fear every day,
(34:40):
and then ultimately to live with courage and to deal
with your fear as a motivational component to go help
you achieve your purpose in life. So don't waste time.
Go to David Brotherford dot com and check out our
Embrace Fear Curriculum. Thank you. One of my favorite aspects
of like your Ted Talk and I bust to watched
(35:01):
it four times there's so much great information was that
when you did get remarried, you spent that first five years,
you know, just being with your son and you know,
and spent really leaning in as that father figure, you know.
But I do recognize there's that's not always the case.
And we have a pretty high percentage of single mothers
(35:22):
out there raising boys, and as a result, we see
the increase in connectivity, right, we see it through video games.
And then the one that really is the most disturbing
for me and what I'm I don't you know, I'm
trying to find the science on it, but the impact
(35:43):
of access to pornography at an early age, with young
men decreasing their competency and intimacy, which makes them, you know,
less attractive to want to have good, more meaningful relationships
at younger ages. And it's just the hook up culture
in that whole thing. Where do you see solutions in
(36:04):
those problems like what can a single mother do to
address a hyperconnective kid? And and well there's too many
video games, too much pornography, or just you know, just
messing around on social media, which is all you know,
has a catastrophic effect on that neurological component as well too.
So I'd love to hear your thoughts on those things.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Number one is get the biological dead involved. If you say, well,
the biological dad doesn't want to be involved, these irresponsible
take a look at all the contributions that a biological
dead makes that we don't. We have no clue of
why the biological dead is important even before the child
is born. How how to spend time learning why there
(36:52):
why there's in the dead brain. There's a whole series
of neurons that don't connect until the dead begins to
perceive that his role with the new born baby is
to be involved with that newborn baby, that role begins,
and those those new neurons that are that might be
called the you know, the seat of the motherhood instinct
(37:12):
the fatherhood instinct. They don't connect if the father only
perceives that his value is earning money, but if he
perceives that his value is being with the child and
doing the things like the boundary enforcement, things like teasing,
things like letting the child have take risks but that
are short of life death risks, teaching that child emotional
(37:34):
intelligence dad style, all those things are so necessary. And
when a father knows that he's needed, as you know,
men who are told they are needed, like during World
War two or any important war, we will be willing
to kill and be killed. And it's as dangerous to
(37:54):
it says, traumatizing. It's extremely traumatizing for a man to
to kill as well as it is to be killed, obviously,
And so that's so men. When when men know they're needed,
they're willing to kill or be killed. But when they're
told that they're needed to love. It's a lot easier
(38:14):
to love and be loved than it is to kill
and be killed. And so we so we when so
when a mom says, you know, I didn't realize there
was value to your rough housing. I didn't realize it
was rally to your teasing. I didn't realize there was
value to what you to the things you do, even
though that you couldn't express what those values were. I
now understand what that is. You're needed now. And even
(38:38):
when I was, I ran for governor of California and
I spoke to prison populations and about ninety percent of
the prisoners were dad deprived prison males. And when I
told them of the importance of fathers, many of those
men tattoos and muscles like I'll never have you know,
(38:58):
said you know it would come up to me and say,
doctor Ferrell, can I tell you that I never thought
I was for any use to anybody in my life,
and therefore I might as well stay in prison. But
now I want to do everything that I can to
get out of prison as soon as possible, so I
can prevent my children from becoming the type of person
I became, make the type of mistakes I made. And
(39:19):
so the first thing is to try to get the
biological dad involved. If there's no option for that the
dad is dead, then I ask you to get involved,
get a stepdad involved, but most step dads are reduced
to the position of advisor. So learn in the Boy
(39:40):
Crisis Book how to create a real equal relationship with
the stepdad. And stepdads almost always love you and they
really want to care deeply for the children, but they
can't care for the children if they're told that all
their suggestions are secondary to your to your ideas. They
(40:00):
have to be equal partners, and you have to learn
from them as well as them learning from you. And
so that's step number two. Step number three is making
sure that if there's no possibility of a step dad,
and there's no possibility of the biological dad, is making
sure that you connect with the school and learn who
(40:21):
make sure the boy is involved in that I'm sorry,
make sure that you do the boundary enforcement, not the
boundary setting, but the boundary enforcement that that dad doesn't do,
and then contact the school and make sure that the
boy is involved in at least two or three of
(40:42):
the three types of sports that are so important what
I call the liberal arts of sports, and the liberal
arts of sports are pick up team sports, organized team sports,
and sports where you focus on largely your own competence,
like in tennis, or gymnastics, but that contribute to the team.
(41:03):
And so all three of those sports develop different skill
sets that I discussed in the Boy Crisis book that
you need to have your son be involved in. If
your son is unwilling to be involved in those sports,
deprive him of things or or her of things until
they get involved in sports. You have the control. So
(41:23):
often when when moms are talking, they say some version
of you know, well, I can prevent my children from
bringing elect electronics to the table. They just they just
do it. And the answer is, you can prevent the
children from doing that. You just take the electronics from them.
You don't resubscribe to their to their to their subscriptions.
(41:45):
They're you know, they're there. They have their door closed
and there can and they are looking at porn on
the computer. Keep the door open. They insist on closing
the door. Take the computer out of the out of
the room and put it into the living room. And
till they learn to do those things and have the
courage to be disliked by your children, who will in
(42:07):
the long run deeply deeply appreciate the discipline that they
have gotten that has not led them to be to
go down the road by the time they're addicted to
porn or video games, that's down the line. You haven't
done the work of making it clear that there's no
(42:29):
option but for them to do their homework, to do
the chores. They can't manipulate their way out of it.
Children that learn to be able to manipulate their way
out of it because you've set boundaries but haven't enforced
them lose respect for you. Wow. And the deepest price
is not just losing respect for you, but them not
(42:51):
having the discipline to be able to do the things
that are necessary for their own growth and postpone gratification.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
That's fantastic. That's absolutely, uh phenomenal advice right there. I
just uh, you know, I I see so many times
my friends that have been gone and years and years
of deployments, and the greatest thing that they they're challenged
with is they always say the same like they're like, hey,
(43:21):
rot man, I'm I'm now that I'm out, I have
to get to know my children again. I'm reintroducing myself
into their lives and understand what they're doing, you know.
And that's a challenging thing for men that have been
entrenched in that sacrificial space. And but I guess you
know what I hear in you discuss a lot is
(43:44):
you know that's that pre program then that comes from
however you were raised, Like I'm just the bread earner.
I've got to go be the sacrifice. I got to
be the sacrificial lamb. If you will to come and
reintroduce the mindset is no. The greatest place I'm going
to be fulfilled is the time I spend with my children,
my legacy and teach them as they merge, you know,
(44:06):
and and help shape them absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
There. If if we ever do get to be able
to create the White House counsel and Boys and Men,
one of the first things that needs to happen is
to work to make sure that every veteran when he
comes or she comes back home, that there is that
there's important communication training about both the mother and the
(44:31):
father being able to understand what the other one's life
is like and how to integrate those two lives together,
because oftentimes it's the man that said the veteran, and
he comes home and the woman has her whole structure
set up, she has the things that are her routine,
and from her perspective, the dad's ideas are all criticisms
(44:53):
of her. And you know she got along well enough
she did. You know she did what she did. And
the kids are the way they are, and so let
the be and stop trying to make them into something different.
Whereas he's whereas from his perspective, I finished one mission
where I was willing to die. Now I have a
new mission, and that mission is to be a good father,
(45:14):
a good husband, and I want to I want to
have something to contribute. And in fact, he has a
huge amount to contribute, that's potential to contribute, and now
it's and but those two, those two different worlds need
to be integrated, and time takes time and training to
(45:36):
know how the man and the woman can hear each
other's perspective. Or if it's two women or two men
in a gay situation, they need to hear each other's perspective.
It's on how that integration can be made so that
both the mother and the person taking care of the
children can have heard her his job much more, much
(45:59):
more red in challenge, and that the person coming in
has something to offer, because they do have something to offer.
It's not just a matter of making that person feel useful.
They can be very useful, or else the whole relationship
will fall apart. The children will be raised without their dead,
that they will not know the value of their dead,
(46:21):
and the children's chance of doing well in life is
extremely reduced.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
As you were talking about this, that integration and that
positive integration one of the things that I've seen happen
quite a bit. And it's not just within the veteran community.
I think it's with you know, whatever constitutes and quotations
deadbeat dads. Right, the legal system has now you know,
really contorted itself to go after and kind of punish
(46:50):
those dads in particular cases, and we see these really
intense aggressive judges and different areas that that that will
implement these kind of draconian challenges to fathers reintegrating with
their dads. Why do you think that's taken place? And
how do what can we do within from a a
(47:15):
you know, a system like you know, you know, Florida
passed that law, gave seventy five million. What can we
see within the judiciary system to begin to support those
dads and getting back integrated with those children too. Why
is it so important?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
This is an extremely important question and answer the You know,
by the way, in Florida, there were three bills passed.
One was that seventy five million dollars that I mentioned
that passed the House in Florida by the vote of
every the unanimous vote of every single Republican and every
single Democrat. And this, you know, in this day and
(47:50):
age and finding that type of grads a miracle is
a miracle. Yes. Second, another bill that was passed it
by Florida was equals shared parenting, and that's been a
very hard that that is required as the predominant, the
go to starting place short of any parent being abusive
(48:11):
or you know, alcoholic in some type of way. So
that's what needs to happen in every state. There are
about four or five states that have that now, but
most states do not. A number of states are moving
toward that now. You ask the question, why is there
just not the assumption of equal shared parenting everywhere. It's
(48:32):
because we grew up thinking that, you know, that moms
were so much more important than dad's. It wasn't until
about fifty years ago well, and the beginning of understanding
something differently was the Moyna Hand Report in nineteen sixty five.
And the Moyna Hand Report found that when they first
started doing the Moya Hand Report, there was the fear
(48:54):
that they would be blaming the black community of black
people for being really bad people or not having effectiveness
with their children. But the Moyna Hen Report found in
studying inner city violence is that the violence happened almost
six exclusively among that twenty five percent of black families
(49:18):
in which there was a minimal or no dad involvement.
That is, they were all dad The great majority of
children that were into problem situations that it committed crime
that we're dealing with, joining gangs that were dealing drugs,
those were dad deprived children. So it was not blacks
or negroes as they called them at the time, that
(49:39):
were the problem. It was the dad deprivation. Now, remember
I said there was twenty five percent at that time
of children were brought up in in dad deprived homes. Today,
in the black community it is seventy two percent, and
in the Caucasian community it is thirty two percent, which
(50:02):
is seven percent higher than the twenty five percent it
was in the black community in nineteen sixty five. And
it's in that group of people the dad deprived group
of people that the problems tend to occur. So in
the old days, we just assume that if there's a separation,
it should be the mother that takes care of the children.
(50:24):
In the very old days, in the eighteen hundreds, the
children stayed with the father and not the mother. But
then for a long period of history, the children were
assumed to be better off with the mother, And in
fact we find that the children do best off in
the boy Crisis. But I did the research for the
(50:44):
Boy Crisis book. I ended up with four must dos
after divorce. In case somebody's listening to this, The first
must do is approximately an equal amount of time spent
with the children by both the dad and the mom.
Number two, the children are not able to detect any
bad mouthing from mom to dad or dad to mom.
(51:05):
When children, let's say a boy is hearing that his
father is irresponsible, a liar, and a narcissist. Well, that
boy looks in the mirror and he notices that my
nose and my hair and my body language is a
lot like my dad. Well, if I'm being told that
my dad is a narcissist and irresponsible in a liar,
well I have lied, and I am looking in the
(51:27):
mirror now and so maybe I'm that way. Also, so
when you bad mouth the other parent, you are bad
mouthing that half of the child that is biologically the
other parent. It is child abused to bad mouth the
other parent. And so the second must do is no
(51:50):
bad mouthing that the child can either hear or detect.
So if you said I had a great time at
mom's house last night, and you're the dad, you go, okay,
so what else did you do? And you and the
child gets the the gets the cue pretty quickly that
no positive attention is coming to me if I talk
(52:12):
about things that I liked about my mom, and so
that that's another form of bad mouthing. Third, the third
must do after divorce. In case of divorce is that
there's is that the mother and father live within about
a twenty minute drive time from each other. And the
reason for that is if they if if it's further
(52:33):
than that, then there's a Then oftentimes the child feels
like it has to give up the soccer practice, or
it has to give up going to it's it's friends recital,
not recital, you know, friend's birthday party, and so and
therefore there's resentment in going to the other parents house.
And the fourth must do is that the parents be
(52:54):
involved at least once a month in couples counseling so
that so that they can learn to hear the other
partner's perspective on on things.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Wow, that's that's wonderful. That's exactly what I was looking for. Doc.
I can't thank you enough. Before we finish, can you
talk about your new book? What's going on? Uh? Where
people can find you and and and and then how
they can they support you? Trying to get uh President
(53:27):
Trump to initiate this, uh, this initiative in the White House.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yes, on the on the initiative in the White House.
If you know someone who is connected with the White House,
that is a really good start to to to contact me.
My contact information is on my website Warrenferrell dot com,
w w W Warrentrell dot com, The Warren. It's like
Warren Buffett, but without the money.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Well, your your wisdom's invaluable.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Sir, Thank you. And the Pharaoh is f A R
R E l L. Some people do like Will Ferrell.
I'm not that funny, and so just it's f A
R R E l L dot com and there is
and then contact me from through my my email address
which is Warren at Warrenferrell dot com and let me
(54:20):
know about that. But the Boy Crisis book is available
both in audible and in and you know, in all
the other formats. And the most recent book that you
asked about was the book a book called Rolemate to Soulmate,
and the Rolemate to Soulmate is focused on how to
(54:41):
be able to hear personal criticism without becoming defensive and
seven other major problems that couples tend to get into
that lead to the divorces that lead to the boy crisis.
And so this is sort of stopping the boy crisis
at its root cause. But it's also learning to keep
marriages together. In my opinion, the best work and most
(55:05):
important work that I do is the work in role
Made to Soulmate, because I've seen more marriages kept together
and more relationships kept together as a result of learning
those skill sets, all of which are biologically unnatural to learn.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Doc you've you just keep helping man talk about service
and talk about that sense of blade gratification and that
sense of sacrifice for others and your epitome of that representation.
It's been an incredible honor to have you on my show,
and I wish you all the best and good luck
(55:40):
with what you're doing. And I will keep handling that
book out, I promise.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
And I really feel honored to be on the show
with somebody who's who's lived life like you've lived and
raised three daughters and really contributed to the country and
overcome barriers that I can't even begin to imagine myself overcoming.
So thank you to God, bless you said don't stay
Ba
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
Hosts And Creators
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Show Links
WebsiteNewsletterPopular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.