June 5, 2020 • 42 mins
Golf Channel host, Damon Hack, steps into the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon to discuss his latest piece entitled: "Can I be both thankful and horrified? Can I?". Damon shares how exhausting it can be to be relied on as a voice during these times and also talks about things that can drive change.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon, a production of
I Heart Radio. Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon.
I am your host, Shane Bacon and um AS for everybody.
(00:21):
Been a very um down week, strange week, depressing for society,
for our country, and I wasn't gonna do a podcast
this week. I I do get a grip with Max Homa.
We barely post one on Monday. We didn't really know
what to say. A couple of guys, you know, speaking
(00:42):
speaking just from our heart is all we could really
do there. And uh and I reached out to Damon Hack,
a golf channel, a friend of mine and and somebody
that posted an unbelievable piece this week on golf channel
dot com that I urge you to read. Will Well,
we'll post that on on social media along with the
link to this podcast if you haven't had that yet
or you hadn't seen it. And Damon was kind enough
(01:03):
to join me, and we just had a conversation about
you know, what's going on and what we can do
and and golf and and moving forward and moving upward.
I mean, I feel like not just forward, moving upward
as a society. Um AS a golfer, as golf fans,
just trying to improve as people, as listeners, as humans,
(01:26):
as friends, as strangers, all the things we can try
to do to be better. So I hope you enjoy it.
I enjoyed talking to them. I always enjoy it obviously.
You know, it's a pretty heavy conversation because it's a
heavy time right now, and I think heavy conversations are needed.
And and just all I ask for you, listener, friend
of mine, person that I respect because you downloaded this podcast,
(01:48):
I'll ask for you is if there's things in your
life that you're doing that you don't love. There's stuff
you've said, or jokes you've made, comments, all of those things. Listen,
those are in the past, and and there's nothing you
can do about them. All I ask in all errorges
that you try to change those things that maybe you
aren't happy about with yourself or maybe you know, disrespect
(02:09):
or make people uncomfortable. And that's all we can do
moving forward, is just trying to improve his people. You know,
I always go back to the Einstein quote, you know,
I mean, what's the definition of insanity? It's doing the
same thing over and over again and expecting a different
result if if that's who you are, if you're a
person that that feels like they're on a track they
(02:30):
don't like, all I say is just make changes. And
if the changes mean you lose friends, or maybe your
golf groups not the same, or you're gonna get yelled
at by certain people on social media, for goodness sakes,
you know, God forbid. I just say, those uncomfortable moments
will be worth it when you get to a point
where you're happier with who you are and where you
(02:52):
are in society and how you feel about yourself. And
I've had to do that the last six seven eight
months personally about some things. And you know, you there
are moments as a narcissist where being proud of yourself
is hard to do and uh, and there's been some
moments where I felt proud of the changes I've made
about myself and this is a great time to do that.
(03:13):
So that's all for me. I I want to get
to Damon as soon as possible. Just the last thing,
Damon was on Shack Jeff Shackford's podcast, The Shack Show,
also a part of My Heart and my Heart Radio
and i Heart Network. Um so listen to that if
you can, because they're they're conversation, they've worked together for
a long time. I just felt like it was as
a very lovely conversation. It was a powerful conversation. And uh,
(03:34):
and I feel like if you if you're gonna listen
to this and like this, I urge you to go
listen to that podcast as well. And uh, and let's
do it. Let's get to Damon and we welcome back
into the clubhouse Damon Hack of Golf Channel Morning Drive.
You guys all know, Damon he penned a piece this week,
a very impactful piece on golf channel dot com titled
Can I Be Both Thankful and Horrified? And Damon, it
(03:55):
was a piece that you know, universally I can only imagine,
you know, universally massively accepted. And I know you've mentioned
a few times, I've I've listened to a couple of
things you've done over the last few days. Just how
many people have reached out to you about the piece
you wrote. Used to be a writer, man, this is
what you used to do all the time. Now you're
on TV US TV folks, we don't write that much anymore. Um,
(04:19):
How was it to to sit down and and why
were you so inclined to put something up kind of
about some personal stuff that you've gone through throughout your
journey in this sport, in and around golf. Yeah. I
don't write much anymore, Shane, And it's it's always great
to visit with you when when we have some time.
And I'll tell you, I was kind of moping around
the house, to be honest with you, I've been watching
(04:42):
some of the coverage in the last week and a
half about the murder of George Floyd and it's just
it kind of hit me and I was like, Okay,
I'm going on television while this is going on, and
I'm smiling and enjoying my job in my life, but
but there's just a pardon right now that is absolutely
broken and hired of a storyline that's happening in our country.
(05:03):
And my wife said, well, why don't you write? And
so the first thing I did was like, I didn't
Instagram post that I wrote these words down. And I
don't usually delve into anything, you know, beyond the ropes.
It's it's you know, Tiger and Phil and the Shambo
and Rory, and that's kind of been it for me,
But I just I couldn't keep doing what I've been
(05:25):
doing and be true to myself or the viewer for
that matter. So I attend this little Instagram post and
next thing, you know, you know, my Folks and Golf channel.
Some colleagues were like, why don't you write a longer piece?
Can you do you mind expanding that for for dot com?
I was like, I'm sure I'll do it. That's fine,
and um it was really appreciative of the comments I
(05:48):
got on Instagram page first of all, and then um comments.
I received phone calls from Folk seven talked to you
for twenty years, nice notes from people who said, man,
I never would have known you got pulled over a
couple of times for doing nothing, that Christ in front
of your house, for standing in front of it. Um,
(06:09):
all true, all painful, and that that that pain, those
memories were just stirred up. So I'm watching a a
grown man, uh you know, be choked out of his life, um,
on television. And you know, but for being on television.
You know, I go jogging in a predominantly white neighborhood.
I've been in elevators with strangers and seeing the looks
(06:31):
on faces and um, I got a bald head, and
and stereotypes are are deep seated in our country, so
I know what looks of discomfort looked like. Um, I
tighten up. If I ever get pulled over for any reason,
if even if there's a cop driving behind me, I
get I get nervous and tight. And this is having
(06:52):
a cousin who's retired FBI and my wife's cousin is
active with the n y p D. So it's just
that just really a collision of emotions. I want that
put tend to paper. I didn't expect the response that
it's received, but I'm glad it's had the response that
it's received. Yeah, it's something you wrote in the piece,
and it it's something that I've continued to think about
(07:12):
over the last few days since I read it, and
and it's it's something a different experience that I had
about something that was very similar. You said you don't
want to talk to your boys about the same thing
that your dad talked to you about. My buddy of
mine had made kind of a I guess, for lack
of a better term, kind of a woke playlist. He
makes playlists all the time and sends him to friends
(07:33):
and he made a playlist of just you know, some songs.
Is as we all kind of sit around wondering, you know,
what the hell we can do? You know, he just
sent a thing out to some friends and it was
some songs about you know, I mean, just you know,
the you know, the common song from the movie. And
there was a lot of those types of songs, and
there was some Tupac on it. And as I was
listening to the music, I was I was hiking the
(07:53):
other day listen to this playlist, and I was shocked
at how similar a song from Tupac and what the
early nineties sounds like all of us now in two
thousand and twenty. And it goes back to your point.
You're speaking to your sons about the same stuff you
got talked to about when you were a child, and
(08:15):
you're two years away from being fifty years old. I
just feel like, you know, my level of frustration with
all this just you know, it has continued. I've been
very frustrated with the golf world over the last little bit. Anyway.
I just feel like nothing really changes and and it
and it feels a little bit like avoid at times
in and around golf and we'll dive into that in
a little bit. But you know, when how do you
(08:38):
not get frustrated? How do you not sit there and
go why why do I have to keep doing these things,
keep saying the same stuff over and over and over again,
if nothing will ever change, And how do you find
hope in all of this that maybe see changes in
the future. Well, I am frush traded. Um. I'm also
(09:02):
mystified that I was sitting around the dinner table with
my wife and kids, and my wife actually initiated. My
wife from Hong Kong. Um, so we are, you know,
your typical twenty one century blended multicultural family, and my
wife's trying to explain, you know, this is what your
dad and his people have gone through. Um. You know,
(09:24):
we're extremely blessed and and and thankful for the gifts
we have, but there is president prejudice and racism in
the world. And I literally I probably said just a
few words. My wife did most of the topic. I
suddenly almost it was like an out of body experience
of like, wait a second, this this is so familiar.
But here I am almost fifty, So I'm kind of
(09:45):
you know, you start thinking about mortality and and and
where your planet is in your country and your town,
and I just was like, wow, I've lived probably more
than half my life and I'm having this conversation with
my kid that my dad ha would be and it's just,
it's just And this was before I wrote the story,
(10:07):
and I just was I was depressed. I was like, wow,
here I am joyful, um happy that I'm doing the
job I love. I would not want to come off
as being perceived as a whiner or a complainer, because
I'm not, but that my soul, something inside of me says,
you know what, You're not completely free, You're not completely
(10:29):
able to be yourself because of this baggage from our country.
And but what gives me hope because I'm an optimist
by nature. But even beyond that, I've received calls from
people at the U. S g A and text messages
from the PG of America PG two. Like I said
that there are people that want to help. What the
(10:50):
recipe is, Uh, that's that's gonna be hard, But I
know it's gonna be heavy lifting, dirty fingernails, uncomfortable conversations,
and really getting down into some tough topics to figure
out how to address things that are systemic, that are
embarrassing I think for our country, and that a lot
(11:12):
of people don't want to talk about and they're like, hey,
I didn't I have nothing to do with this. But
I think the time for being comfortably naive and ignorant
is over. And I think that thankfully, it feels like
a multicultural um issue and not a black issue. I
think if you look at the protests and the conversations,
and maybe it's because of COVID nineteen and most people
are at home anyway, that people are having some really
(11:35):
deep conversations, and I'm at least hopeful and happy that
that's happening. Yeah, I mean, you are someone that's going
to get approached when something like this happens. I mean,
you're you're a black man that is on one of
the most recognizable golf shows out there. I mean, I
mean a Morning Drive is on TVs and pro shops
(11:55):
and all around golf fans, you know, living rooms every morning.
You know, throughout the week when you see these things,
you know, these horrific things happen, and you know that
at some point you're gonna start getting requests by media
and by people like me. You know, Hey, do you
mind coming on the podcast and talking and and and damon,
(12:15):
it's such a limited group. I mean, you think about Tiger, right,
I mean, Tiger is a guy that I mean I
noticed there was a there was an article on golf
channel dot com and on June one, and it was
it was a question why Tiger hadn't spoke up yet.
I think Tiger that day posted something about it. But
we're always looking for answers from people that went through
(12:35):
experiences or have gone through these experiences. I think about
Dr Fauci during coronavirus. You know, if you're an expert
of the viruses at that time, you're probably phone is
ringing off the hook, right, I mean you're the guy
or the woman that's getting approached to maybe help somebody
try to understand this. What's that burden like for you?
Knowing that when things like this happened, when race comes up,
(12:57):
when a huge race issue blows up in our country
and now and around the world, you know that you're
going to be a sounding board. You're gonna be a
voice that people are gonna want to listen to, that
we're gonna want to hear from, and hopefully they're gonna
get some answers from because that's that's that's a huge burden. Damon.
It's exhausting, Shane, That's what it is. Um And it's
(13:18):
not the only time that this happens, whether it's being
the only black kid in your school or in your
you know, newspaper or whatever, you know, graduate school. Um,
it's it's it's exhausting. And it's been at least nice
to share the load with some other minorities in our
(13:41):
game and knowing that they have dealt with this their
whole lives that are dealing with it now. So part
of me is thankful that I can speak to it,
that I at least have experience and a platform to
speak and share. But it is exhausting, and I think
that it's unfair to expect black people to figure out
(14:01):
a problem that is an American problem. I do think
that it's going to take a collective effort. I think
it's gonna take deep pockets and people who are invested
in this game, both from a financial standpoint and an
emotional standpoint, to say this is a problem. Uh, some
of my fellow American citizens are in pain and anguish
(14:25):
over the state of this country. And that you can
love your country and be a patriot and have questions
and problems with the way things are going. And just
because you know, lebron is, you know, wealthy, and Tiger
is tiger, and Barack Obama has been elected and these
are all remarkable strides that our country has made, does
(14:48):
not mean that there's there's room to grow and a
long way to go. And I just think without assigning
assigning blame to to, you know, the current crop of
people that I might say, hey, I didn't you know
owned no slaves, um, never use the N word. I'm
nice to everybody. Well, that's that's wonderful. But for this
(15:09):
to be rectified, it's gonna take some people that are
maybe not quite aware of the situations. Maybe it's gonna
take doing some research on your own, reading books on
your own. Read The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein,
pick up Malcolm Gladwell's Talking to Strangers Watch by Ava
du Verney. I mean, there's a lot of information out there.
(15:32):
I know people that just don't want to talk about race,
and and I think it's, hey, you know, I don't
see race everybody. I fee everybody the same. Well, I
do want people to see race. It's not it's not
it's not working out this way with us not seeing race.
I think we have to see it, address it and
make things better. Yeah, and and and you know, Damon,
it is you and I in the golf world. You know,
(15:57):
we do live in a fairly conservative, you know, very white,
very male sport. I mean, that's what golf is. I mean,
I can only imagine what your life was like first
starting out writing about this sport, you know, being in
a press ton I mean, were you the only African
American there? I mean, was there anybody else of color
doing the job you were doing? You know? I mean
(16:17):
I'm I'm guessing probably not, or maybe one or two
other people in the room. I mean, that's that's intimidating
just to begin with, right it is, I mean, thankfully,
you know, there are some pioneers like Pete McDaniel, Cliff
Brown from Golf Digest in the New York Times respectively,
Forrell Evans, who um was an editor at Sports Illustrated
(16:39):
and occasionally would be on the scene at golf tournaments.
But you're talking about two or three, you know, we're
talking height of the Tiger era. You know, they're hundreds
and hundreds of hundreds to have three or four African
Americans in a press room of five hundred or or
seven hundred fifty at a US open you get to
(16:59):
pick to um. So yeah, I remember having to turn
my credential around a couple of times, make sure that
the security guard knows, Hey, that's me. I'm legit. I'm
where I'm supposed to be. UM. But you know what
I've I've I've you know, worked hard. I've written the
stories and and and told the stories on TV now
(17:21):
and I feel like I feel like I'm okay, like
I've earned my keeping the game. It's fine. I don't
have to prove that I know about this game and
I've covered it and uh and have loved it and
given it the respect and appreciation that it deserves. For me,
it's about It's about the community from which not even
that I necessarily came from, but my cousins, my parents,
(17:42):
people that I know it's not enough for. People said, well,
Damon has made it, so why can any black person
made it? You know. It's like it's like that's my
parents with the Compton High School uh and moved me
to the San Fernando Valley, which was not Compton, which
was much more affluent. Both my parents, you know, dual
(18:03):
degree holding, um educated, you know, tough disciplinarians who said,
you know, you're gonna do things the right way. But
I'm as an outlier in my own family and outlier.
I have cousins who or who's who's experienced is much
more traditional in the African American sense of struggle in
our city, UM kind of bumping up against pillars and
(18:30):
different aspects of our society that are systemic and that
are hard to address. So this isn't about like me
looking for any specipathy, but it's about me sharing my
personal truths in my my background and trying to find solutions.
It feels like it's a big task. It feels like
it's multi layered, multi textured, and and that it has
(18:51):
to be multicultural in the end. And I think it's
it's it's important. You know, I mentioned the article about
Tiger not speaking up. I mean, I do think we
are now to a point where it's as you said earlier,
it's important to be uncomfortable. It's something that I battled
with personally Damon a lot over the last few years.
I mean, I mentioned not loving golf like I once did,
(19:13):
and I think it's because, you know, I mean, listen,
social media is a horrible place to begin with. I'm
not gonna I'm not I'm not. I'm not gonna say
everything in this world is the same as social For
goodness sakes, I don't think anybody should ever do that.
I've actually taken a step away from social lafter the
last couple of months, and let me just tell you,
way happier. Like I believe the correlation there, but you know,
(19:35):
I do think that personally for me, and I want
to hear your thoughts here. You know, I I feel
and I felt at times that there were things I
wanted to say, there were things I wanted to support,
you know, something like Black Lives Matter, for instance, and
I felt really uncomfortable a putting something out there to
(19:59):
the world about that and be understanding that there were
going to be a lot of those really tough guys
social media people that we're going to yell at me
and curse at me. And again, I mean, what does
it matter to me? Right? I mean? What? Why? Why
am I scared of this? But I am scared. I
am scared of what's gonna come from that? And you know,
(20:20):
one of my commitments over the last week is I
can't be scared of supporting people I want to support,
and I believe I should support ideas I want to support,
and also the other thing I want to do, and
and and again, I don't know if this is right
or not. This is why I wanted to have you on.
I just wanted to ask you some questions. Is the
(20:41):
people that yell, the people that cuss, the people that
come after me and say horrible stuff because I posted
a black Lives Matter hat, I want to talk to
the people. I don't want to avoid them. I want
to discuss it. You know. I want to explain that
saying black lives matter doesn't mean other lives don't matter.
It's a focus on on a race and a people
(21:05):
that have been oppressed for hundreds of years, and it's
it's giving them, it's it's supporting their movement. That's the
idea here. It's not saying I don't care about white
people or I don't care about police officers. It's that
right now, black lives you know, statistically do all the
work and all the dive in into online. You want
to do. Life isn't the same and that's screwed up
(21:29):
and that sucks. And so it's on me, and it's
on you know, some of these golfers you saw, you know,
Justin Thomas, guys like that, they were posting, you know,
blackout Tuesday. They were joining in. I'm not sure that
would have happened ten years ago, Damon and and and
at least the conversation. It's not just on you, you know,
it's not just let's get Damon Hack on the phone
to talk about this for three minutes in the B block.
(21:51):
It's on white people and white women and you know,
Asian Americans. It's on everybody to support a group of
people that are fed up with the way things are
and be they want life to change, and hopefully this
is the moment that it does. Yeah, you know, I
talked to Cheyenne Woods about this, and she says she
(22:12):
hopes this isn't a moment, that it's a movement, and
it does feel that way. And I've been trying to
figure out, like why, And I'm happy that Justin Thomas,
Ricky Fowler Brooks kept up participating in that blackout Tuesday.
And I was saddened by some of the negative comments,
and I think you can go down a rabbit hole
trying to go back and forth on social media. But
(22:33):
my thought is that maybe these are these are young
men of different generation, a younger generation than I am.
They've interacted with the Steph Curry's and the Andrea Buddallas
and Larry Fitzgerald's, other athletes who absolutely adore the game
of golf. So I feel like it was a kinship there.
But it's going to take. It's going to take the
Shane Bacon's and the Justin Thomass and the Brooks kept
(22:56):
us and the Ricky's, And I think it's it's important
because it's it's a it's a heavy stone for for
you know, the African American community to feel like this
is all up to us. Um. I think it would
get more attention, more traction, more eyeballs if if there
were allies that are uncomfortable but that want to learn
(23:19):
and want to know and want to at least have
a conversation. For me, it's not even so much that
Shane Bacon you come up with a solution and then
j T you come over this and I'm just glad
to have you listening and and and having your empathy
and want to learn. I mean, these are these are
hard questions, and these are questions for obviously sociologists and
(23:40):
historians and others to have to really delve into. But
just having the ear of of people. And that's why
you know, I was if I was depressed a week ago,
I'm more optimistic now because and maybe it's because people
see me on TV. I feel like I'm who I
am on off the air, it doesn't matter. I'm trying
to be the same every day. And I've been actually
(24:03):
uplifted by viewers, even those who said I had no idea.
I've been a little surprised that people would be surprised
that I've been pulled over and frisked. That's that's that's
you know, I was a little surprised, But that's okay. Um,
I hear people think game and I'm surprised you went
through those things. I'm more happy and optimistic that folks said.
I don't like that. Obviously hate what happened to George Floyd.
(24:26):
I don't like what has happened to others in the
African American community, to fellow American citizens. I mean that
that's what that's These are fellow Americans, my fellow Americans.
I mean, these are fellow Americans. And and it's if
it's important enough to to have those complex and hard
to find answers in conversations, I still think it's worth it,
(24:47):
and it's at least a start. Yeah, I mean, I
think I think a lot about Augusta National. I mean
Augusta National hosts the most popular golf tournament in the
world each and every year, and one of the most
popular sporting events in the world each and every year.
And while two thousand twelve, again two thousand twelve, that's
not that long ago, was way too late to admit
(25:10):
a woman member for the first time. Now, you know
what is this year three of the year two of
the Women's Amateur And you know, I bet your first
year covering the Masters, you probably never in a in
your wildest dreams, thought you'd see, you know, a female
golf tournament happening on the grounds of Augusta Nationals. So,
I mean, there there are people and organizations trying to change.
(25:36):
The one thing I have noticed in and and I
was wondering about this with you, is you know, you
write this piece for golf Channel dot com. Do you
do you feel like in tw a you would have
felt comfortable doing that and be you would have felt
the backing that you got from the company, the co
(25:57):
workers and on and on. Because I am feeling that
movement almost as much as I am from the people.
Is that companies seem like they're going, we've got to
step up. And I think that's very, very important, because
you know, companies drive business, they drive discourse, they drive
conversation a lot of the time, probably more than we know.
And it feels like, you know, Adidas joining in on
(26:19):
the Nike campaign they came out last week. I mean,
they're brand sure, but you know, these are steps. I mean,
these are steps in a direction that that does seem
like again, there's a little bit of light there, you know. Yeah.
And I don't think I would have written this five
years ago. Obviously, we've had situations that Trayvon Martin happened
just before I moved to to Orlando from New York. Um,
(26:43):
and I didn't really write about it. I didn't. I
didn't really I didn't write about it then. Um, when
I worked at Sports Illustrated, I was actually pleasantly surprised
that no one stopped me providing this piece and said, well,
it was a little too hot, this is a little
too a sensitive right now. I have felt support from
(27:04):
the folks at NBC and Golf Channel for letting me
express myself. After all, it was the folks that that said,
you have to be yourself when you're on TV. Can't
be somebody else. You have to be you. The viewer
will see it, the viewer will know it. And I
just said, well, I'm gonna be myself. I have to
be able to express myself. And I've been just I've
been really surprised that at the positive reaction, and it
(27:26):
makes me feel like folks want to make a difference.
And whether it's you know that the question is, okay,
so what do you do? Um? Is it going to
the inner city and bringing a hundred kids to to
the Bay Hill Tournament? Um? Is it systemic? Is it?
You know, you know, education from K through twelve? Is
it that? Is it? Is it supporting black business? Is
(27:47):
it calling your local police department and finding out if
they have body camsh is it? You know? Is it
conversations with the handful of of African American CEOs there's
are four in the in the fortune may be over
stating that that number, but there's a lot. There's a
(28:08):
lot that probably needs to be done. It's going to
take a multifaceted approach, but I do think that there
are people of all stripes that want to address this,
especially in golf, which unlet's it's it's got exclusionary dn A. Um,
it just does. It's come a long way. Like gosh,
the the members that Augusta as you mentioned, the drive
(28:31):
ship and pot and the the women's amateur those are
things that I when they're do in fathoms twenty years ago,
fifteen years ago, and those are important steps and it
just shows that there needs to be more to help
make the systemic and sustained the difference. And I feel
like the governing bodies and the folks that have you know,
(28:54):
skin in this game, part in the punt, are gonna
do what they can to change the narrow of our
country because we're not living up to the all men,
all women are created equal. We're just not. And I
think that was really shown in that nine minute video
that that I'll never watch again. Yeah, I mean, you know,
going to golf just you know, since we're we're golf people.
(29:19):
Is you know the something I listen, if if you
type these words in your Gmail account, damon, you'd probably
ten emails will pop up. Grow the game. It's it's
something that has every organization, every network, every company has
you know, jumped behind some an issue in the idea
of growing the game. You know, my issue always with
the with the grow the game sentence in Mantra was
(29:41):
I've if if I was a minority, if I was
a female, I would look at golf specifically in this
country and say, does that game like me? You know,
because the hedges are tall, man, I mean, the gates
are closed, and there's a guard guard gate there, and
all the these unbelievable golf courses that you see on
(30:02):
the biggest stages, you know, in high definition, aren't always
the most welcoming. And I wonder sometimes, you know, when
I look at at a country like Scotland, where you know,
the best courses they have there are open to anyone
and everyone as long as you've got a five iron
and a golf glove. That's not the case in this country.
And I wonder if the the the idea that we
(30:23):
have of growing the game needs to change. It's almost
golfers need to grow, you know, we need to grow
and be more accepting. Because you know, you said it.
Do you go grab thirty kids from inner cities and
bring them to a golf tournament or a golf course.
Is that going to hook him? I'm not sure that's
one day. And if they get there and they look
around and everybody's wide and it's you know, everybody's you
(30:44):
know there, maybe they're not looking, but maybe they they
do a double take at one point, you know, does
that make you feel real comfortable? So I feel like
as as a golfer, as a person that you know,
as played private clubs and has you know, taken invites
to these types of places that a member of a
country club, you know, is is it my duty to
make golf feel more welcoming to people? Because I I
(31:07):
imagine and your experiences golf doesn't always seem that welcoming.
It doesn't always seem like it's it's excited to open
the doors up to two places that maybe it hadn't
open up board two before. Yeah, and it's not very
accommodating or relatable to to someone from the inner city.
It's just not. I say that knowing that golf is
(31:28):
a lot of good with UM with its charity Drew
Charter for example, in Atlanta. I don't want to minimize
the positive things that golf has done, But when you
really get down to the nitty gritty, it's not a
very welcoming It's a game, it's intimidating, it can be
(31:49):
extremely exclusionary, and I just don't think it's very relatable.
And I don't know how you a bridge that gap.
It's like, you know, a kid from the Cities is
can't can't even wrap his or her mind around spending
four hours or five hours at a country club and
lunch at the turn and a cnar at the end,
and it's just this, just this, it might as well
(32:12):
be on on the moon, that that type of that
type of thought about you know, the game of golf.
And I don't know how you you close that gap.
Whether it's investment in in in those communities UM or
you know, whether it's it's a one day thing. And
I said to someone who's actually brought kids from UM
near Stanford, which is north of Orlando, and had a
(32:35):
bus of kids who had never been a go off course,
had dam come to to Bay Hill on a Monday,
and it was great and I was so thankful I
was able to help Fastil tate that. But then they
went back to their homes and it's expensive, man, golf
is an expensive game. And I do think there's something
about the cost, the not necessarily always warm that it's hard.
(33:01):
I mean, there's there are a lot of impediment I
think of bringing golf um to the inner city and
really making that type of difference. We're gonna take a
quick break and be right back, So I'm gonna I'm
(33:22):
gonna end it with this very happy question. So I
apologize because this is gonna be I know, like you said,
we're not sociologist, you know we we don't nobody knows
all of the answers here. But if somebody comes to
you and says, Damon, what can I do right now? Like,
what is there? What is something that I can do
that would make a positive impact on society and where
(33:42):
we currently stand to make things better? What would be
something or some things you would tell a person that
would ask you that, because you know, those are the
questions I feel like a lot of people have right now. Yeah,
and I've I've thought about this quite a bit, and
I would say you can almost get his grandmuler as
you want, or you can go more big picture, whether
(34:03):
it's educating yourself, I would say, you know, read a book,
look look for books on this topic. If that's where
you feel deficient. UM, you can donate to historically black colleges,
which are in many ways suffering from a budgetary standpoint. UM,
you can support black businesses. You can google black businesses
(34:25):
and support them. I would like to see a concerted
effort by the governing bodies or the pg of American
PJ Tour to have more interaction with with black businesses.
And and there's different ways you can go about it.
And I think it's gonna be what your comfort level is,
or maybe it's outside your comfort level. Uh, you know,
spend a day in the inner city, go go go
find a church or or or or a leader in
(34:49):
the community and find out how you can help a
sponsor a child. I think there are a lot of
different ways to help. UM. I don't know what's most sustainable,
but I think it's gon me one person at a time.
It's gonna be a couple of people here. It's gonna
be having conversations, you know, with your own family, with
your own friends, with your own inner circle, with people
(35:09):
you play golf with at the country club. It's about saying,
you know what, this is important to me. It's not
just saying, hey, how cool am I? How cool is this?
How how great is this golf club? Knowing that there
are heavy issues, you know, beyond those hedges. So I
think that's that those are a few ideas that I have. UM,
and I actually um your listeners may know that that
(35:32):
I'm I've become a bit of a wine connoisseur. I
didn't even know that there's a black owned winery in
Nappa that I didn't even know about a couple of
months ago. So I'm gonna order a bottle of wine,
or a black owned one. What's it's It's appropriately called
brown It's called Brown Estate. And my sister told me
(35:52):
about it. It's been a couple of months now and
actually sent me some bottles and they're fantastic. And if
you wouldn't have known that it was a black going winery,
you just would have ordered it with your steak in
a Friday night dinner or had it on Saturday when
you're kicking up and watching a movie. Um. But but
those types of things, I'm just I'm I'm I'm kind
(36:13):
of anxious and eager and excited and trying to find
different ways in small ways and big ways, Uh, to
help make a difference in the community that's hurting right now,
inside a country that's hurting right now. Now, Damon, I
said last question, and that's not true. I do want
to ask a golf question about you. I do need
to find out you know. I mean, we were one
(36:33):
to know all time playing as teammates. How how is
your current golf game? Have you been able to play
during the quarantine, during everything that's been going on the
last three months, have you got out there? Because Arizona,
we were able to play a decent amount of golf,
So that's really been the only thing we've been able
to do. It. Has that been similar out there in Florida?
It has? And the beauty of this time has been
(36:54):
that I've been able to play golf with my boys.
And I have triplet sons. They're gonna turn nine years
old on the ninth, and I've got two out of
three die hards. My oldest Jame's oldest by a minute.
He's a bit of an iconoclass. I thinks golf has
too many rules, a little bit slow, so he rather
we need, we need, we need. I got two out
(37:18):
of three. That's a good percent. But but but Jaymo
wants to just throw the football around, and Miles and
Reece they like to to swing their golf clubs. But
it's it's been uh, it's been nice to bomb with
them and spend some time my short game. I'm not
gonna say it's good, but it's improving. I feel like
I have a system now. I'm more of the Jason
(37:39):
Day Steve Stricker. Keep the hands out, let the body
be the engine. That's that's kind of where I am
right now. That's to kind of stop being so flippy
at the bottom. So so I think there's some hope.
I think there's some hope it should we ever pair
uh together again abandoned, I hope we would walk away too.
And oh after our great win several years back. Yeah,
(38:01):
my my my son just turned one yesterday, and and
obviously at one, at one year old, he's not uh,
we're not, you know, playing golf. But I did get
him the Fisher Price set of clubs that they recommend
much older and of course I don't listen to those rules.
And I got him at and I will say this, Damon.
His favorite toy is the driver. He just carries it
(38:23):
around all the time. He goes to grab it whenever
he sees it, and it makes it just it just
as a father, I just light up. Man, I'm like,
this is I'm so happy that this is something You
have no idea what it is, You have no idea
what it does. You could care less, but at least
you're holding something that makes dad happy, you know, because
I I can't wait to do what you what you
(38:44):
talked about is is getting out there and getting to see,
you know, my my son find that love or maybe
it takes him till he's forty. I'm never gonna push
it on him, but you know, I just I'm excited
to see what it's like. I can only imagine, you know,
you getting to see that through your son's eye is
probably there's a rebirth of love for the game. And
(39:04):
internally it's true, there's no doubt about that. Being outside
and the reason why I love the game, camaraderie, fresh air,
blue Skies, Bird chirping, you know, having fun with your friends.
It's even more meaningful when it's your when it's your
own child or or children. And I'm not surprised that
your son would be grabbing a draft considering how well
(39:26):
you hit that club. That is not a shock to
me saying at all. I'll pass the message. Damon. I
appreciate it. I like I said, I know you know
it's Friday. I know you've been bombarded by by request
and by people, you know, just trying to get some time.
I respect you. I always have, I always will. I
(39:46):
love what you wrote and and and I know you
well enough to know that you know one piece on
golf channel dot com isn't the end for you. And
I I envision some editorial pieces on Morning Drive when
you fell the need and uh and you've you've got
the voice and and and you're such an unbelievable human
that uh that you know you're you're a person that
(40:08):
that does that gives me hope in a sport sometimes
that I I look on negatively. So I appreciate it,
and I appreciate you and and just you know, I
just appreciate what you do. Man. I just I got
all the respect in the world for you. Well, Shan,
I appreciate the time. I appreciate you having me on.
I appreciate those words, and I feel like this is
(40:30):
the beginning. And if I can be a part of
the solution in a small way, If this conversation, you know,
motivates someone to do something different, I think we're on
the right track. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Samon, Thank
you pal. We're gonna take a quick break and be
right back. A big thanks to Damon Hack for joining
(40:55):
just being who he is. He's a great person, he's
a great voice and uh and he's somebody that that
I feel like it has really taken, you know, the
golf burden of this on and has done an unbelievable
job with it and will continue to do so as
I know he will. Thank you all for listening. I
appreciate you guys supporting the podcast, supporting Get a Grip.
You know, all the things that we do and we've done,
(41:16):
and we're gonna try to come up with some ideas
that are that are different, that are highlighting some things
that maybe we haven't highlighted before. And again, we're we
all can do better. We all can be better we
all can improve. Hate has no home here on this podcast.
Hate has no home here for what I do in
and around my life. And I hope you are the same. UM.
(41:39):
Enjoy your weekend, reflect on things, talk speak. Let's keep
the conversation going. There's no reason that you know by
June tenth or or July August that this conversation shouldn't
still be going, because it's a very very important one.
And UH, and things definitely need to change, and I
(41:59):
hope and pray deep down internally that they do. UM
and that's all for me. Thanks again for listening, Thanks
again for subscribing, and UH and I appreciate you. The
Clubhouse was Shane Bacon as a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon, a production of
I Heart Radio. Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon.
I am your host, Shane Bacon and um AS for everybody.
(00:21):
Been a very um down week, strange week, depressing for society,
for our country, and I wasn't gonna do a podcast
this week. I I do get a grip with Max Homa.
We barely post one on Monday. We didn't really know
what to say. A couple of guys, you know, speaking
(00:42):
speaking just from our heart is all we could really
do there. And uh and I reached out to Damon Hack,
a golf channel, a friend of mine and and somebody
that posted an unbelievable piece this week on golf channel
dot com that I urge you to read. Will Well,
we'll post that on on social media along with the
link to this podcast if you haven't had that yet
or you hadn't seen it. And Damon was kind enough
(01:03):
to join me, and we just had a conversation about
you know, what's going on and what we can do
and and golf and and moving forward and moving upward.
I mean, I feel like not just forward, moving upward
as a society. Um AS a golfer, as golf fans,
just trying to improve as people, as listeners, as humans,
(01:26):
as friends, as strangers, all the things we can try
to do to be better. So I hope you enjoy it.
I enjoyed talking to them. I always enjoy it obviously.
You know, it's a pretty heavy conversation because it's a
heavy time right now, and I think heavy conversations are needed.
And and just all I ask for you, listener, friend
of mine, person that I respect because you downloaded this podcast,
(01:48):
I'll ask for you is if there's things in your
life that you're doing that you don't love. There's stuff
you've said, or jokes you've made, comments, all of those things. Listen,
those are in the past, and and there's nothing you
can do about them. All I ask in all errorges
that you try to change those things that maybe you
aren't happy about with yourself or maybe you know, disrespect
(02:09):
or make people uncomfortable. And that's all we can do
moving forward, is just trying to improve his people. You know,
I always go back to the Einstein quote, you know,
I mean, what's the definition of insanity? It's doing the
same thing over and over again and expecting a different
result if if that's who you are, if you're a
person that that feels like they're on a track they
(02:30):
don't like, all I say is just make changes. And
if the changes mean you lose friends, or maybe your
golf groups not the same, or you're gonna get yelled
at by certain people on social media, for goodness sakes,
you know, God forbid. I just say, those uncomfortable moments
will be worth it when you get to a point
where you're happier with who you are and where you
(02:52):
are in society and how you feel about yourself. And
I've had to do that the last six seven eight
months personally about some things. And you know, you there
are moments as a narcissist where being proud of yourself
is hard to do and uh, and there's been some
moments where I felt proud of the changes I've made
about myself and this is a great time to do that.
(03:13):
So that's all for me. I I want to get
to Damon as soon as possible. Just the last thing,
Damon was on Shack Jeff Shackford's podcast, The Shack Show,
also a part of My Heart and my Heart Radio
and i Heart Network. Um so listen to that if
you can, because they're they're conversation, they've worked together for
a long time. I just felt like it was as
a very lovely conversation. It was a powerful conversation. And uh,
(03:34):
and I feel like if you if you're gonna listen
to this and like this, I urge you to go
listen to that podcast as well. And uh, and let's
do it. Let's get to Damon and we welcome back
into the clubhouse Damon Hack of Golf Channel Morning Drive.
You guys all know, Damon he penned a piece this week,
a very impactful piece on golf channel dot com titled
Can I Be Both Thankful and Horrified? And Damon, it
(03:55):
was a piece that you know, universally I can only imagine,
you know, universally massively accepted. And I know you've mentioned
a few times, I've I've listened to a couple of
things you've done over the last few days. Just how
many people have reached out to you about the piece
you wrote. Used to be a writer, man, this is
what you used to do all the time. Now you're
on TV US TV folks, we don't write that much anymore. Um,
(04:19):
How was it to to sit down and and why
were you so inclined to put something up kind of
about some personal stuff that you've gone through throughout your
journey in this sport, in and around golf. Yeah. I
don't write much anymore, Shane, And it's it's always great
to visit with you when when we have some time.
And I'll tell you, I was kind of moping around
the house, to be honest with you, I've been watching
(04:42):
some of the coverage in the last week and a
half about the murder of George Floyd and it's just
it kind of hit me and I was like, Okay,
I'm going on television while this is going on, and
I'm smiling and enjoying my job in my life, but
but there's just a pardon right now that is absolutely
broken and hired of a storyline that's happening in our country.
(05:03):
And my wife said, well, why don't you write? And
so the first thing I did was like, I didn't
Instagram post that I wrote these words down. And I
don't usually delve into anything, you know, beyond the ropes.
It's it's you know, Tiger and Phil and the Shambo
and Rory, and that's kind of been it for me,
But I just I couldn't keep doing what I've been
(05:25):
doing and be true to myself or the viewer for
that matter. So I attend this little Instagram post and
next thing, you know, you know, my Folks and Golf channel.
Some colleagues were like, why don't you write a longer piece?
Can you do you mind expanding that for for dot com?
I was like, I'm sure I'll do it. That's fine,
and um it was really appreciative of the comments I
(05:48):
got on Instagram page first of all, and then um comments.
I received phone calls from Folk seven talked to you
for twenty years, nice notes from people who said, man,
I never would have known you got pulled over a
couple of times for doing nothing, that Christ in front
of your house, for standing in front of it. Um,
(06:09):
all true, all painful, and that that that pain, those
memories were just stirred up. So I'm watching a a
grown man, uh you know, be choked out of his life, um,
on television. And you know, but for being on television.
You know, I go jogging in a predominantly white neighborhood.
I've been in elevators with strangers and seeing the looks
(06:31):
on faces and um, I got a bald head, and
and stereotypes are are deep seated in our country, so
I know what looks of discomfort looked like. Um, I
tighten up. If I ever get pulled over for any reason,
if even if there's a cop driving behind me, I
get I get nervous and tight. And this is having
(06:52):
a cousin who's retired FBI and my wife's cousin is
active with the n y p D. So it's just
that just really a collision of emotions. I want that
put tend to paper. I didn't expect the response that
it's received, but I'm glad it's had the response that
it's received. Yeah, it's something you wrote in the piece,
and it it's something that I've continued to think about
(07:12):
over the last few days since I read it, and
and it's it's something a different experience that I had
about something that was very similar. You said you don't
want to talk to your boys about the same thing
that your dad talked to you about. My buddy of
mine had made kind of a I guess, for lack
of a better term, kind of a woke playlist. He
makes playlists all the time and sends him to friends
(07:33):
and he made a playlist of just you know, some songs.
Is as we all kind of sit around wondering, you know,
what the hell we can do? You know, he just
sent a thing out to some friends and it was
some songs about you know, I mean, just you know,
the you know, the common song from the movie. And
there was a lot of those types of songs, and
there was some Tupac on it. And as I was
listening to the music, I was I was hiking the
(07:53):
other day listen to this playlist, and I was shocked
at how similar a song from Tupac and what the
early nineties sounds like all of us now in two
thousand and twenty. And it goes back to your point.
You're speaking to your sons about the same stuff you
got talked to about when you were a child, and
(08:15):
you're two years away from being fifty years old. I
just feel like, you know, my level of frustration with
all this just you know, it has continued. I've been
very frustrated with the golf world over the last little bit. Anyway.
I just feel like nothing really changes and and it
and it feels a little bit like avoid at times
in and around golf and we'll dive into that in
a little bit. But you know, when how do you
(08:38):
not get frustrated? How do you not sit there and
go why why do I have to keep doing these things,
keep saying the same stuff over and over and over again,
if nothing will ever change, And how do you find
hope in all of this that maybe see changes in
the future. Well, I am frush traded. Um. I'm also
(09:02):
mystified that I was sitting around the dinner table with
my wife and kids, and my wife actually initiated. My
wife from Hong Kong. Um, so we are, you know,
your typical twenty one century blended multicultural family, and my
wife's trying to explain, you know, this is what your
dad and his people have gone through. Um. You know,
(09:24):
we're extremely blessed and and and thankful for the gifts
we have, but there is president prejudice and racism in
the world. And I literally I probably said just a
few words. My wife did most of the topic. I
suddenly almost it was like an out of body experience
of like, wait a second, this this is so familiar.
But here I am almost fifty, So I'm kind of
(09:45):
you know, you start thinking about mortality and and and
where your planet is in your country and your town,
and I just was like, wow, I've lived probably more
than half my life and I'm having this conversation with
my kid that my dad ha would be and it's just,
it's just And this was before I wrote the story,
(10:07):
and I just was I was depressed. I was like, wow,
here I am joyful, um happy that I'm doing the
job I love. I would not want to come off
as being perceived as a whiner or a complainer, because
I'm not, but that my soul, something inside of me says,
you know what, You're not completely free, You're not completely
(10:29):
able to be yourself because of this baggage from our country.
And but what gives me hope because I'm an optimist
by nature. But even beyond that, I've received calls from
people at the U. S g A and text messages
from the PG of America PG two. Like I said
that there are people that want to help. What the
(10:50):
recipe is, Uh, that's that's gonna be hard, But I
know it's gonna be heavy lifting, dirty fingernails, uncomfortable conversations,
and really getting down into some tough topics to figure
out how to address things that are systemic, that are
embarrassing I think for our country, and that a lot
(11:12):
of people don't want to talk about and they're like, hey,
I didn't I have nothing to do with this. But
I think the time for being comfortably naive and ignorant
is over. And I think that thankfully, it feels like
a multicultural um issue and not a black issue. I
think if you look at the protests and the conversations,
and maybe it's because of COVID nineteen and most people
are at home anyway, that people are having some really
(11:35):
deep conversations, and I'm at least hopeful and happy that
that's happening. Yeah, I mean, you are someone that's going
to get approached when something like this happens. I mean,
you're you're a black man that is on one of
the most recognizable golf shows out there. I mean, I
mean a Morning Drive is on TVs and pro shops
(11:55):
and all around golf fans, you know, living rooms every morning.
You know, throughout the week when you see these things,
you know, these horrific things happen, and you know that
at some point you're gonna start getting requests by media
and by people like me. You know, Hey, do you
mind coming on the podcast and talking and and and damon,
(12:15):
it's such a limited group. I mean, you think about Tiger, right,
I mean, Tiger is a guy that I mean I
noticed there was a there was an article on golf
channel dot com and on June one, and it was
it was a question why Tiger hadn't spoke up yet.
I think Tiger that day posted something about it. But
we're always looking for answers from people that went through
(12:35):
experiences or have gone through these experiences. I think about
Dr Fauci during coronavirus. You know, if you're an expert
of the viruses at that time, you're probably phone is
ringing off the hook, right, I mean you're the guy
or the woman that's getting approached to maybe help somebody
try to understand this. What's that burden like for you?
Knowing that when things like this happened, when race comes up,
(12:57):
when a huge race issue blows up in our country
and now and around the world, you know that you're
going to be a sounding board. You're gonna be a
voice that people are gonna want to listen to, that
we're gonna want to hear from, and hopefully they're gonna
get some answers from because that's that's that's a huge burden. Damon.
It's exhausting, Shane, That's what it is. Um And it's
(13:18):
not the only time that this happens, whether it's being
the only black kid in your school or in your
you know, newspaper or whatever, you know, graduate school. Um,
it's it's it's exhausting. And it's been at least nice
to share the load with some other minorities in our
(13:41):
game and knowing that they have dealt with this their
whole lives that are dealing with it now. So part
of me is thankful that I can speak to it,
that I at least have experience and a platform to
speak and share. But it is exhausting, and I think
that it's unfair to expect black people to figure out
(14:01):
a problem that is an American problem. I do think
that it's going to take a collective effort. I think
it's gonna take deep pockets and people who are invested
in this game, both from a financial standpoint and an
emotional standpoint, to say this is a problem. Uh, some
of my fellow American citizens are in pain and anguish
(14:25):
over the state of this country. And that you can
love your country and be a patriot and have questions
and problems with the way things are going. And just
because you know, lebron is, you know, wealthy, and Tiger
is tiger, and Barack Obama has been elected and these
are all remarkable strides that our country has made, does
(14:48):
not mean that there's there's room to grow and a
long way to go. And I just think without assigning
assigning blame to to, you know, the current crop of
people that I might say, hey, I didn't you know
owned no slaves, um, never use the N word. I'm
nice to everybody. Well, that's that's wonderful. But for this
(15:09):
to be rectified, it's gonna take some people that are
maybe not quite aware of the situations. Maybe it's gonna
take doing some research on your own, reading books on
your own. Read The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein,
pick up Malcolm Gladwell's Talking to Strangers Watch by Ava
du Verney. I mean, there's a lot of information out there.
(15:32):
I know people that just don't want to talk about race,
and and I think it's, hey, you know, I don't
see race everybody. I fee everybody the same. Well, I
do want people to see race. It's not it's not
it's not working out this way with us not seeing race.
I think we have to see it, address it and
make things better. Yeah, and and and you know, Damon,
it is you and I in the golf world. You know,
(15:57):
we do live in a fairly conservative, you know, very white,
very male sport. I mean, that's what golf is. I mean,
I can only imagine what your life was like first
starting out writing about this sport, you know, being in
a press ton I mean, were you the only African
American there? I mean, was there anybody else of color
doing the job you were doing? You know? I mean
(16:17):
I'm I'm guessing probably not, or maybe one or two
other people in the room. I mean, that's that's intimidating
just to begin with, right it is, I mean, thankfully,
you know, there are some pioneers like Pete McDaniel, Cliff
Brown from Golf Digest in the New York Times respectively,
Forrell Evans, who um was an editor at Sports Illustrated
(16:39):
and occasionally would be on the scene at golf tournaments.
But you're talking about two or three, you know, we're
talking height of the Tiger era. You know, they're hundreds
and hundreds of hundreds to have three or four African
Americans in a press room of five hundred or or
seven hundred fifty at a US open you get to
(16:59):
pick to um. So yeah, I remember having to turn
my credential around a couple of times, make sure that
the security guard knows, Hey, that's me. I'm legit. I'm
where I'm supposed to be. UM. But you know what
I've I've I've you know, worked hard. I've written the
stories and and and told the stories on TV now
(17:21):
and I feel like I feel like I'm okay, like
I've earned my keeping the game. It's fine. I don't
have to prove that I know about this game and
I've covered it and uh and have loved it and
given it the respect and appreciation that it deserves. For me,
it's about It's about the community from which not even
that I necessarily came from, but my cousins, my parents,
(17:42):
people that I know it's not enough for. People said, well,
Damon has made it, so why can any black person
made it? You know. It's like it's like that's my
parents with the Compton High School uh and moved me
to the San Fernando Valley, which was not Compton, which
was much more affluent. Both my parents, you know, dual
(18:03):
degree holding, um educated, you know, tough disciplinarians who said,
you know, you're gonna do things the right way. But
I'm as an outlier in my own family and outlier.
I have cousins who or who's who's experienced is much
more traditional in the African American sense of struggle in
our city, UM kind of bumping up against pillars and
(18:30):
different aspects of our society that are systemic and that
are hard to address. So this isn't about like me
looking for any specipathy, but it's about me sharing my
personal truths in my my background and trying to find solutions.
It feels like it's a big task. It feels like
it's multi layered, multi textured, and and that it has
(18:51):
to be multicultural in the end. And I think it's
it's it's important. You know, I mentioned the article about
Tiger not speaking up. I mean, I do think we
are now to a point where it's as you said earlier,
it's important to be uncomfortable. It's something that I battled
with personally Damon a lot over the last few years.
I mean, I mentioned not loving golf like I once did,
(19:13):
and I think it's because, you know, I mean, listen,
social media is a horrible place to begin with. I'm
not gonna I'm not I'm not. I'm not gonna say
everything in this world is the same as social For
goodness sakes, I don't think anybody should ever do that.
I've actually taken a step away from social lafter the
last couple of months, and let me just tell you,
way happier. Like I believe the correlation there, but you know,
(19:35):
I do think that personally for me, and I want
to hear your thoughts here. You know, I I feel
and I felt at times that there were things I
wanted to say, there were things I wanted to support,
you know, something like Black Lives Matter, for instance, and
I felt really uncomfortable a putting something out there to
(19:59):
the world about that and be understanding that there were
going to be a lot of those really tough guys
social media people that we're going to yell at me
and curse at me. And again, I mean, what does
it matter to me? Right? I mean? What? Why? Why
am I scared of this? But I am scared. I
am scared of what's gonna come from that? And you know,
(20:20):
one of my commitments over the last week is I
can't be scared of supporting people I want to support,
and I believe I should support ideas I want to support,
and also the other thing I want to do, and
and and again, I don't know if this is right
or not. This is why I wanted to have you on.
I just wanted to ask you some questions. Is the
(20:41):
people that yell, the people that cuss, the people that
come after me and say horrible stuff because I posted
a black Lives Matter hat, I want to talk to
the people. I don't want to avoid them. I want
to discuss it. You know. I want to explain that
saying black lives matter doesn't mean other lives don't matter.
It's a focus on on a race and a people
(21:05):
that have been oppressed for hundreds of years, and it's
it's giving them, it's it's supporting their movement. That's the
idea here. It's not saying I don't care about white
people or I don't care about police officers. It's that
right now, black lives you know, statistically do all the
work and all the dive in into online. You want
to do. Life isn't the same and that's screwed up
(21:29):
and that sucks. And so it's on me, and it's
on you know, some of these golfers you saw, you know,
Justin Thomas, guys like that, they were posting, you know,
blackout Tuesday. They were joining in. I'm not sure that
would have happened ten years ago, Damon and and and
at least the conversation. It's not just on you, you know,
it's not just let's get Damon Hack on the phone
to talk about this for three minutes in the B block.
(21:51):
It's on white people and white women and you know,
Asian Americans. It's on everybody to support a group of
people that are fed up with the way things are
and be they want life to change, and hopefully this
is the moment that it does. Yeah, you know, I
talked to Cheyenne Woods about this, and she says she
(22:12):
hopes this isn't a moment, that it's a movement, and
it does feel that way. And I've been trying to
figure out, like why, And I'm happy that Justin Thomas,
Ricky Fowler Brooks kept up participating in that blackout Tuesday.
And I was saddened by some of the negative comments,
and I think you can go down a rabbit hole
trying to go back and forth on social media. But
(22:33):
my thought is that maybe these are these are young
men of different generation, a younger generation than I am.
They've interacted with the Steph Curry's and the Andrea Buddallas
and Larry Fitzgerald's, other athletes who absolutely adore the game
of golf. So I feel like it was a kinship there.
But it's going to take. It's going to take the
Shane Bacon's and the Justin Thomass and the Brooks kept
(22:56):
us and the Ricky's, And I think it's it's important
because it's it's a it's a heavy stone for for
you know, the African American community to feel like this
is all up to us. Um. I think it would
get more attention, more traction, more eyeballs if if there
were allies that are uncomfortable but that want to learn
(23:19):
and want to know and want to at least have
a conversation. For me, it's not even so much that
Shane Bacon you come up with a solution and then
j T you come over this and I'm just glad
to have you listening and and and having your empathy
and want to learn. I mean, these are these are
hard questions, and these are questions for obviously sociologists and
(23:40):
historians and others to have to really delve into. But
just having the ear of of people. And that's why
you know, I was if I was depressed a week ago,
I'm more optimistic now because and maybe it's because people
see me on TV. I feel like I'm who I
am on off the air, it doesn't matter. I'm trying
to be the same every day. And I've been actually
(24:03):
uplifted by viewers, even those who said I had no idea.
I've been a little surprised that people would be surprised
that I've been pulled over and frisked. That's that's that's
you know, I was a little surprised, But that's okay. Um,
I hear people think game and I'm surprised you went
through those things. I'm more happy and optimistic that folks said.
I don't like that. Obviously hate what happened to George Floyd.
(24:26):
I don't like what has happened to others in the
African American community, to fellow American citizens. I mean that
that's what that's These are fellow Americans, my fellow Americans.
I mean, these are fellow Americans. And and it's if
it's important enough to to have those complex and hard
to find answers in conversations, I still think it's worth it,
(24:47):
and it's at least a start. Yeah, I mean, I
think I think a lot about Augusta National. I mean
Augusta National hosts the most popular golf tournament in the
world each and every year, and one of the most
popular sporting events in the world each and every year.
And while two thousand twelve, again two thousand twelve, that's
not that long ago, was way too late to admit
(25:10):
a woman member for the first time. Now, you know
what is this year three of the year two of
the Women's Amateur And you know, I bet your first
year covering the Masters, you probably never in a in
your wildest dreams, thought you'd see, you know, a female
golf tournament happening on the grounds of Augusta Nationals. So,
I mean, there there are people and organizations trying to change.
(25:36):
The one thing I have noticed in and and I
was wondering about this with you, is you know, you
write this piece for golf Channel dot com. Do you
do you feel like in tw a you would have
felt comfortable doing that and be you would have felt
the backing that you got from the company, the co
(25:57):
workers and on and on. Because I am feeling that
movement almost as much as I am from the people.
Is that companies seem like they're going, we've got to
step up. And I think that's very, very important, because
you know, companies drive business, they drive discourse, they drive
conversation a lot of the time, probably more than we know.
And it feels like, you know, Adidas joining in on
(26:19):
the Nike campaign they came out last week. I mean,
they're brand sure, but you know, these are steps. I mean,
these are steps in a direction that that does seem
like again, there's a little bit of light there, you know. Yeah.
And I don't think I would have written this five
years ago. Obviously, we've had situations that Trayvon Martin happened
just before I moved to to Orlando from New York. Um,
(26:43):
and I didn't really write about it. I didn't. I
didn't really I didn't write about it then. Um, when
I worked at Sports Illustrated, I was actually pleasantly surprised
that no one stopped me providing this piece and said, well,
it was a little too hot, this is a little
too a sensitive right now. I have felt support from
(27:04):
the folks at NBC and Golf Channel for letting me
express myself. After all, it was the folks that that said,
you have to be yourself when you're on TV. Can't
be somebody else. You have to be you. The viewer
will see it, the viewer will know it. And I
just said, well, I'm gonna be myself. I have to
be able to express myself. And I've been just I've
been really surprised that at the positive reaction, and it
(27:26):
makes me feel like folks want to make a difference.
And whether it's you know that the question is, okay,
so what do you do? Um? Is it going to
the inner city and bringing a hundred kids to to
the Bay Hill Tournament? Um? Is it systemic? Is it?
You know, you know, education from K through twelve? Is
it that? Is it? Is it supporting black business? Is
(27:47):
it calling your local police department and finding out if
they have body camsh is it? You know? Is it
conversations with the handful of of African American CEOs there's
are four in the in the fortune may be over
stating that that number, but there's a lot. There's a
(28:08):
lot that probably needs to be done. It's going to
take a multifaceted approach, but I do think that there
are people of all stripes that want to address this,
especially in golf, which unlet's it's it's got exclusionary dn A. Um,
it just does. It's come a long way. Like gosh,
the the members that Augusta as you mentioned, the drive
(28:31):
ship and pot and the the women's amateur those are
things that I when they're do in fathoms twenty years ago,
fifteen years ago, and those are important steps and it
just shows that there needs to be more to help
make the systemic and sustained the difference. And I feel
like the governing bodies and the folks that have you know,
(28:54):
skin in this game, part in the punt, are gonna
do what they can to change the narrow of our
country because we're not living up to the all men,
all women are created equal. We're just not. And I
think that was really shown in that nine minute video
that that I'll never watch again. Yeah, I mean, you know,
going to golf just you know, since we're we're golf people.
(29:19):
Is you know the something I listen, if if you
type these words in your Gmail account, damon, you'd probably
ten emails will pop up. Grow the game. It's it's
something that has every organization, every network, every company has
you know, jumped behind some an issue in the idea
of growing the game. You know, my issue always with
the with the grow the game sentence in Mantra was
(29:41):
I've if if I was a minority, if I was
a female, I would look at golf specifically in this
country and say, does that game like me? You know,
because the hedges are tall, man, I mean, the gates
are closed, and there's a guard guard gate there, and
all the these unbelievable golf courses that you see on
(30:02):
the biggest stages, you know, in high definition, aren't always
the most welcoming. And I wonder sometimes, you know, when
I look at at a country like Scotland, where you know,
the best courses they have there are open to anyone
and everyone as long as you've got a five iron
and a golf glove. That's not the case in this country.
And I wonder if the the the idea that we
(30:23):
have of growing the game needs to change. It's almost
golfers need to grow, you know, we need to grow
and be more accepting. Because you know, you said it.
Do you go grab thirty kids from inner cities and
bring them to a golf tournament or a golf course.
Is that going to hook him? I'm not sure that's
one day. And if they get there and they look
around and everybody's wide and it's you know, everybody's you
(30:44):
know there, maybe they're not looking, but maybe they they
do a double take at one point, you know, does
that make you feel real comfortable? So I feel like
as as a golfer, as a person that you know,
as played private clubs and has you know, taken invites
to these types of places that a member of a
country club, you know, is is it my duty to
make golf feel more welcoming to people? Because I I
(31:07):
imagine and your experiences golf doesn't always seem that welcoming.
It doesn't always seem like it's it's excited to open
the doors up to two places that maybe it hadn't
open up board two before. Yeah, and it's not very
accommodating or relatable to to someone from the inner city.
It's just not. I say that knowing that golf is
(31:28):
a lot of good with UM with its charity Drew
Charter for example, in Atlanta. I don't want to minimize
the positive things that golf has done, But when you
really get down to the nitty gritty, it's not a
very welcoming It's a game, it's intimidating, it can be
(31:49):
extremely exclusionary, and I just don't think it's very relatable.
And I don't know how you a bridge that gap.
It's like, you know, a kid from the Cities is
can't can't even wrap his or her mind around spending
four hours or five hours at a country club and
lunch at the turn and a cnar at the end,
and it's just this, just this, it might as well
(32:12):
be on on the moon, that that type of that
type of thought about you know, the game of golf.
And I don't know how you you close that gap.
Whether it's investment in in in those communities UM or
you know, whether it's it's a one day thing. And
I said to someone who's actually brought kids from UM
near Stanford, which is north of Orlando, and had a
(32:35):
bus of kids who had never been a go off course,
had dam come to to Bay Hill on a Monday,
and it was great and I was so thankful I
was able to help Fastil tate that. But then they
went back to their homes and it's expensive, man, golf
is an expensive game. And I do think there's something
about the cost, the not necessarily always warm that it's hard.
(33:01):
I mean, there's there are a lot of impediment I
think of bringing golf um to the inner city and
really making that type of difference. We're gonna take a
quick break and be right back, So I'm gonna I'm
(33:22):
gonna end it with this very happy question. So I
apologize because this is gonna be I know, like you said,
we're not sociologist, you know we we don't nobody knows
all of the answers here. But if somebody comes to
you and says, Damon, what can I do right now? Like,
what is there? What is something that I can do
that would make a positive impact on society and where
(33:42):
we currently stand to make things better? What would be
something or some things you would tell a person that
would ask you that, because you know, those are the
questions I feel like a lot of people have right now. Yeah,
and I've I've thought about this quite a bit, and
I would say you can almost get his grandmuler as
you want, or you can go more big picture, whether
(34:03):
it's educating yourself, I would say, you know, read a book,
look look for books on this topic. If that's where
you feel deficient. UM, you can donate to historically black colleges,
which are in many ways suffering from a budgetary standpoint. UM,
you can support black businesses. You can google black businesses
(34:25):
and support them. I would like to see a concerted
effort by the governing bodies or the pg of American
PJ Tour to have more interaction with with black businesses.
And and there's different ways you can go about it.
And I think it's gonna be what your comfort level is,
or maybe it's outside your comfort level. Uh, you know,
spend a day in the inner city, go go go
find a church or or or or a leader in
(34:49):
the community and find out how you can help a
sponsor a child. I think there are a lot of
different ways to help. UM. I don't know what's most sustainable,
but I think it's gon me one person at a time.
It's gonna be a couple of people here. It's gonna
be having conversations, you know, with your own family, with
your own friends, with your own inner circle, with people
(35:09):
you play golf with at the country club. It's about saying,
you know what, this is important to me. It's not
just saying, hey, how cool am I? How cool is this?
How how great is this golf club? Knowing that there
are heavy issues, you know, beyond those hedges. So I
think that's that those are a few ideas that I have. UM,
and I actually um your listeners may know that that
(35:32):
I'm I've become a bit of a wine connoisseur. I
didn't even know that there's a black owned winery in
Nappa that I didn't even know about a couple of
months ago. So I'm gonna order a bottle of wine,
or a black owned one. What's it's It's appropriately called
brown It's called Brown Estate. And my sister told me
(35:52):
about it. It's been a couple of months now and
actually sent me some bottles and they're fantastic. And if
you wouldn't have known that it was a black going winery,
you just would have ordered it with your steak in
a Friday night dinner or had it on Saturday when
you're kicking up and watching a movie. Um. But but
those types of things, I'm just I'm I'm I'm kind
(36:13):
of anxious and eager and excited and trying to find
different ways in small ways and big ways, Uh, to
help make a difference in the community that's hurting right now,
inside a country that's hurting right now. Now, Damon, I
said last question, and that's not true. I do want
to ask a golf question about you. I do need
to find out you know. I mean, we were one
(36:33):
to know all time playing as teammates. How how is
your current golf game? Have you been able to play
during the quarantine, during everything that's been going on the
last three months, have you got out there? Because Arizona,
we were able to play a decent amount of golf,
So that's really been the only thing we've been able
to do. It. Has that been similar out there in Florida?
It has? And the beauty of this time has been
(36:54):
that I've been able to play golf with my boys.
And I have triplet sons. They're gonna turn nine years
old on the ninth, and I've got two out of
three die hards. My oldest Jame's oldest by a minute.
He's a bit of an iconoclass. I thinks golf has
too many rules, a little bit slow, so he rather
we need, we need, we need. I got two out
(37:18):
of three. That's a good percent. But but but Jaymo
wants to just throw the football around, and Miles and
Reece they like to to swing their golf clubs. But
it's it's been uh, it's been nice to bomb with
them and spend some time my short game. I'm not
gonna say it's good, but it's improving. I feel like
I have a system now. I'm more of the Jason
(37:39):
Day Steve Stricker. Keep the hands out, let the body
be the engine. That's that's kind of where I am
right now. That's to kind of stop being so flippy
at the bottom. So so I think there's some hope.
I think there's some hope it should we ever pair
uh together again abandoned, I hope we would walk away too.
And oh after our great win several years back. Yeah,
(38:01):
my my my son just turned one yesterday, and and
obviously at one, at one year old, he's not uh,
we're not, you know, playing golf. But I did get
him the Fisher Price set of clubs that they recommend
much older and of course I don't listen to those rules.
And I got him at and I will say this, Damon.
His favorite toy is the driver. He just carries it
(38:23):
around all the time. He goes to grab it whenever
he sees it, and it makes it just it just
as a father, I just light up. Man, I'm like,
this is I'm so happy that this is something You
have no idea what it is, You have no idea
what it does. You could care less, but at least
you're holding something that makes dad happy, you know, because
I I can't wait to do what you what you
(38:44):
talked about is is getting out there and getting to see,
you know, my my son find that love or maybe
it takes him till he's forty. I'm never gonna push
it on him, but you know, I just I'm excited
to see what it's like. I can only imagine, you know,
you getting to see that through your son's eye is
probably there's a rebirth of love for the game. And
(39:04):
internally it's true, there's no doubt about that. Being outside
and the reason why I love the game, camaraderie, fresh air,
blue Skies, Bird chirping, you know, having fun with your friends.
It's even more meaningful when it's your when it's your
own child or or children. And I'm not surprised that
your son would be grabbing a draft considering how well
(39:26):
you hit that club. That is not a shock to
me saying at all. I'll pass the message. Damon. I
appreciate it. I like I said, I know you know
it's Friday. I know you've been bombarded by by request
and by people, you know, just trying to get some time.
I respect you. I always have, I always will. I
(39:46):
love what you wrote and and and I know you
well enough to know that you know one piece on
golf channel dot com isn't the end for you. And
I I envision some editorial pieces on Morning Drive when
you fell the need and uh and you've you've got
the voice and and and you're such an unbelievable human
that uh that you know you're you're a person that
(40:08):
that does that gives me hope in a sport sometimes
that I I look on negatively. So I appreciate it,
and I appreciate you and and just you know, I
just appreciate what you do. Man. I just I got
all the respect in the world for you. Well, Shan,
I appreciate the time. I appreciate you having me on.
I appreciate those words, and I feel like this is
(40:30):
the beginning. And if I can be a part of
the solution in a small way, If this conversation, you know,
motivates someone to do something different, I think we're on
the right track. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Samon, Thank
you pal. We're gonna take a quick break and be
right back. A big thanks to Damon Hack for joining
(40:55):
just being who he is. He's a great person, he's
a great voice and uh and he's somebody that that
I feel like it has really taken, you know, the
golf burden of this on and has done an unbelievable
job with it and will continue to do so as
I know he will. Thank you all for listening. I
appreciate you guys supporting the podcast, supporting Get a Grip.
You know, all the things that we do and we've done,
(41:16):
and we're gonna try to come up with some ideas
that are that are different, that are highlighting some things
that maybe we haven't highlighted before. And again, we're we
all can do better. We all can be better we
all can improve. Hate has no home here on this podcast.
Hate has no home here for what I do in
and around my life. And I hope you are the same. UM.
(41:39):
Enjoy your weekend, reflect on things, talk speak. Let's keep
the conversation going. There's no reason that you know by
June tenth or or July August that this conversation shouldn't
still be going, because it's a very very important one.
And UH, and things definitely need to change, and I
(41:59):
hope and pray deep down internally that they do. UM
and that's all for me. Thanks again for listening, Thanks
again for subscribing, and UH and I appreciate you. The
Clubhouse was Shane Bacon as a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I
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