Ep. 154 - Caddie Tales from St. Andrews

In this episode of the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon, Shane is joined by his friend Will Froelich and they reminisce about their days caddying at St. Andrews in 2006. The guys talk about how they got the job, the process of being a caddy at St. Andrews and they also share their favorite stories.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon, a production of
I Heart Radio Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon.
I am your host Shane Bacon in a different episode
this week didn't invite any golf guest or player or

(00:24):
commentary on what's going on in the world. This is
a buddy mine that uh was really the influence to
head over to St. Andrews after college back in two
thousand and six, when I went over there and caddied.
I've talked a little bit about it in interviews over
the years. I've written a little bit about it, but
not a whole bunch. And I you know, I've got
this podcast, I've got this place right here that I

(00:45):
can just have a conversation about the experiences and what
we can remember. For goodness, SAX was a long time ago.
It flies by man, goodness, gracious, oh six a long
time ago when it doesn't feel like it was a
long time ago. But for those that they were wondering,
I mean, I got done with college in two thousand
and six, the University of Arizona, and my best friend
at the time, who you will listen to a lot

(01:06):
on this episode, is as a fellow by the name
of Will Freylick. He has a text in the moved
to Arizona in high school and uh and and we
became buddies really early on at the University of Arizona
and moved in together, and and we're just pals really
one summer we weren't hanging out other than that. I mean,
we were kind of those guys in college that we're
doing most things together. He was a golfer, and you know,

(01:27):
he liked a lot of the same stuff I did.
And he was a caddy in Scottsdale. And you're you'll
hear the whole story about how we got into you know,
flying to Scotland on kind of a whim and hoping
to get jobs and eventually getting a job at the
most famous place on the planet in terms of golf.
So I hope you guys enjoyed it. It It goes a
little long, so I don't want to spend too much
time on the front end, but you know, golf back.

(01:49):
I hope you guys had a chance to enjoy the
weekend and and watch a little bit of golf. I
know it was fun personally. I am recording this over
the weekend because as you're listening to this, I him
at Bannon Dunes and if you follow me on social
media you probably know that. You can follow me on
Twitter and Instagram at Shane Bacon and I mentioned this
on the back end of the podcast, but if you

(02:10):
follow the Clubhouse Instagram account, which is at the Clubhouse Pod,
I will post on Wednesday, the day you're listening to this,
or you know, maybe later, I will post some photos
from my caddie days at St. Andrew's back at oh six,
some pictures we took and uh and just you know,
give you a look and a view of what we
were experiencing at St. Andrews. So that will be on

(02:32):
the the at the Clubhouse Pod Instagram account, So go
follow that if you don't already. And that's enough. Let's
let's get to the conversation, because again, this was a
deep dive into my time at St. Andrews short time
caddying there. It wasn't more than a season, but a
lot of fun and it was a it was a
really really uh it was nostalgic to to reminisce about
what what all went down back in two thousand and six.

(02:53):
I hope you guys enjoy it. Well, I need to
go a shout out to Jeff Shackelford because this was
an idea from Shack for He asked me as his
podcast was getting going, do you have anything where you've
talked about being a caddy at St. Andrews? And I
was thinking, not really. I mean I wrote an article
back in the day on Sports Illustrated when I was caddying.
I mean it was not for Sports Illustrated. It was

(03:14):
like a Sports Illustrated on campus article. And I've penned
a couple of pieces over the years about doing this,
but I've never sat around and just had a discussion
about my time as a as a looper at the
Old Course. So I figured I would do that and
to Uh to help me through memories from two thousand six,
which is a long time ago. Is is one of
my best buddies, Will Freylick. Will Uh Will was the

(03:36):
guy that I went over with to the Old Course.
He was the guy that had kind of got a
set up through friendships and work colleagues that we will
talk about and and Will, interesting enough, is a buddy
of mine when I went to University of Arizona. When
I went in two thousand two, as a freshman, I
knew not a single soul at the U of A.

(03:57):
I only knew of one human being at the You
have A. And I'm saying I only knew of him
because I knew of a person that i'd never met
through a friend of mine that I played a whole
bunch of junior golf with. And that person just happened
to be Will. I mean that was basically how we
became buddies. Yeah, no, that was that was Derrick Rodgers.
And he called me like maybe like two or three

(04:21):
weeks before we went to UH to school, and he said, hey,
I want you to introduce Shane. I mean, this is
before cell phones. None of us had cell phones. And
here's his number. He's in Marshall, give McCall and then
and I never did. That's weird. Uh. And so went
to You have A and it was activity night for
Kafasig and we were playing pool and I was like, hey,

(04:43):
where are you from? And you said Marshall, and both
of us looked at each other and it was you're
You're Derek Rogers friend thirty kids, I mean, small world.
And then the next like, uh, twenty four hours times
four years we spent together. So I did spend I had.
I had a decent run with a girlfriend. I spent

(05:04):
way more time with Will than any of the girlfriends
I had in college. I think you would easily say
the same thing, we lived together. We're not married to
any of the technically, I'm married to my last girlfriend
and the girl we're mostly gone at that point, the
girlfriend that you told me at the time. If I
start dating her, I will marry this. Girls, I think
your exact line, and thank you for memorializing that. And Megan,
if you're listening, but she won't. She doesn't want to

(05:27):
hear about our caddy days. So will you grew up
in Texas and then you got a caddy? Do you
get a caddy job in Houston? It was so closer
to you, actually, Trinity, so about hour and a half
north of Houston. Um, there's a little lake there called
like Livingston Um. A guy named Corby robertson Um and

(05:48):
Chris was blank and hopefully Chris never he's a really
famous running back from the University of Texas. Anyways, they
oh on the summer camp. They're called Camp Olympia. And
I had gone to the camp, and they had this
kind of uh they had a really good golf camp. Uh,
but they had a RinkyDink golf course. And Corby said,
Mr Robertson, uh said, you know what, I'm gonna build

(06:09):
this incredible championship eighteen whole golf course. Hired Jack Nicholas
to do it. I think if he played Whispering Pines,
I have not. Oh my goodness, that's all I mean,
it's I was actually just talking to my dad yesterday
on the phone and he said the rankings came out
for best courses in Texas, and I asked him that
was the first guys, that is that number one? Because
I mean there was there was there was some a
J g A stuff there was in high school that

(06:31):
I didn't in but always wanted to. Yeah, and that
was the whole point of it too, I mean, really
good about fostering the spirit of the game and intended
to be an international sort of like junior competition focus course.
But anyways, so I went to the camp. Um. I
was probably one of the better players, um and I
was a polite kid. And so the the guy that
ran the camp called me up and said, hey, well,

(06:51):
you know, we've built this course. It's sand still, but
we're getting close to grand opening and we'd like to
have the opening round with Mr Robertson. Mr Gilbert was
Chris Gilbert and UM and a couple of other guys.
Would you come up and be one of the honorary
caddies because they were wanting to like showcase the junior
program to um, and I did it and I carried
the bag. Actually got a good story on this one
that I wasn't planning on telling, but anyways, I carried

(07:13):
the bag. Uh and uh it was it was grab
Sam So, I mean they were dropping AstroTurf to hit balls.
But it was incredible. I mean it was just such
a cool layout. And from then on, UM I was,
I was. I was a caddy at that course and
it was sort of I was sixteen, seventeen years old
to ma, I could barely drive, and I was like, hey, hey, Dad,

(07:34):
do you mind if I drive an hour and a
half north to the woods and sleep with a bunch
of caddies in a cabin and uh and uh, you know,
caddy and I did no cell phone, no nothing, yea. Anyway,
and the parent the parenty was just different these days
I mean, it was just it's just looser times. But anyways,

(07:55):
I was a really good spoon. But I almost didn't
get called back. I was said, the biggest catty mistake
I ever made was on that first round. And I mean,
in sixteen, seventeen years old, I love to play, and
I'm just it's hard to carry back and watch somebody
else play. And I'm I'm talking and we're coming up
on ten just just just awesome home and uh and
the guy I'm talking to says, so, you're a pretty

(08:16):
good player, That's what I hear. And yes, sir, you know.
And he said, uh, is I want to see hit
his shot? Yeah, that's right, you know. And and so
I was like sure, So so that the next hole
is a part three and I and I all four
hit and then I grabbed the club out of the
bag and I literally it's like so embarrassed, Like I
I literally cringe even telling this story. How dumb this

(08:39):
is for a sixteen year old to do this. And
so I dropped a ball and hit it and uh
and uh, Mr Robertson did not like that, as you
shouldn't have. And I got caught. No no issue for
the rest of the round in eighteen, I got called
aside and said, well, we're gonna pay you this time,
but if you ever do that again, not only are
you gonna forfeit your pay, I bet you're not coming back.

(09:00):
And so so so you Yeah, you moved from Texas
to Scotstone to finish out high school and then that's
kind of where you continue to caddy. Right. Yeah, so
the the pay up there was pretty good at Whispering
Wines Pines and then uh, I came out to Scottsdale
and I just immediately wanted to find a caddy spot
so astant. He was number one course in the state

(09:21):
at time, still number of course in state. Somehow I
called up to caddy Master and yeah, he let me
on out there, and there you got to keep all
the money. The course just like hosted you out there.
I mean it wasn't even St. Andrew's attack yet, right,
it's Dancy you get the whole thing. And uh, and
so it was like I felt like I was Rockefeller. Oh,
I mean, and you didn't have any Yeah, when you're

(09:42):
you're not even that. I mean, you're you're brand new here.
You know, you don't really have that many friends. Yet
and so I mean great escape on the weekend and
you know beautiful. I mean the kid coming from Southeast Texas.
You know, with with you're gonna have Bermuda and St.
Augustine mixed with a little Kentucky blue and crab and
sand it every other clay you can imagine. Um, no
offense of course of the Houston I love them, um,

(10:04):
but uh but you just come out here and seeing
that pure rye and at the time it was bent,
like the best bent you've ever seen in your life.
And it was just it was just it was cool
and you get paid good money to do it. I
was like, I was a happy campus. I mean you
get I mean, and you and I talked, you know,
throughout college about Astancia, and I mean you and that
were big, weko pop people, you know, living in Tucson

(10:26):
and getting a chance come up here. I mean, we
get a chance to go out there and play Weeko
pol and we'd be all excited about it. But Astance
was kind of the private one that we could just
kind of make Augusta national Scottsdale. So you and I
become friends at you of a and we are you know,
we are laboring through college and and and I study
abroad in my junior year of college, and that was

(10:46):
my first trip to St. Andrews. I was studying abroad
in London and I my uncle flies over and and
we go up to St. Andrews place when I Yeah,
but was that when I came out and met you
in London? Was that the next year? Yeah? Yeah, that
would have been when you can Yeah, that was in
year Okay, yeah, so so I so I go to
I go to St. Andrews. That was my again my
first experience. Uh short story about St Andrews and how

(11:08):
serious I took studying abroad is I I you know,
when when you study abroad, at least from the university's
We went to my buddy Andrew and I were over
at the University of Westminster in London, and all of
the grades were basically either one paper or one test.
That was it. I mean, there weren't there were an attendance,
There wasn't anything well, and and I learned this. Let

(11:28):
me just tell you, we really stopped going to class.
I mean we weren't going a lot to begin with.
It was past fail as it transfers over, it counts
as credit we're having fun. I remember Andrew went to
Barcelona for like two weeks when nobody knew where it was.
But uh, I was in the in St. Andrew's, the
town of St. Andrew's, and a friend of mine had
emailed me or something about our paper. Do literally the

(11:51):
paper that was our entire grade was due the next day.
I had to go bribe my way into the University
of St. Andrew's Collegiate library to do my only paper
from my only grade of semester in St. Andrews. Of
course I didn't realize that, you know, a year and
a half later i'd be living there. But I get
a chance play of the old course, and I fall
in love with it. I just thought it was awesome,

(12:11):
and you know, obviously get a chance to play with
one of my my favorite people in the world, my
uncle Doug. And so you and I we lived at
the same house for three years. Was a house your
dad bought probably five or six clocks just south of campus.
Called it the Shack. You and I were the constants.
We lived there pretty much the entire time except on
the roof, and and that was what where our idea
of Caddy and for St Andrews came was we would

(12:32):
sit on the roof. We'd we'd pull chairs up there.
We would pull a radio. This is before blue two speakers.
We would pull a full you know, stereo system up there,
listen to Texas Country. Uh, the worst worst sy I
just remember that extension card run out at the back
of their It was. It was very it was very college.
But we would sit up there and you and I

(12:53):
started talking about why don't we go caddy at St. Andrews,
Why don't we go to Scotland and work after we
graduate Waight in two thousand six. Now it was basically
or our idea originated from was just be an idiot,
drink of beer on a roof, yep. And and I'll
and I'll dial it back a little bit to connect
the dots. When you were abroad that junior it was
junior year. I came over for a finance program with Eller,

(13:15):
and I spent way more time with you than probably
should have been with with Eller. And uh, and I
can confirm that you weren't studying no, but and it's
just just so many memories that I'm thinking of going
into Texas Embassy with you and a whole bunch of stuff.
But anyways, I went up to St. Andrew's. There was
a it was a two week program in the middle
of a bank holiday. And what a bank holiday was

(13:38):
is an American it's just three day weekend. And so
I think you and I went. I have a memory
of going to the Texas Embassy with you that night,
haven't dinner. And then I literally got on a train
and went to St. Andrews with a suitcase and on
a bank holiday, which which was not a good idea.
And I got there at probably twelve thirty or one am.

(14:00):
It was raining, and we got off at Lucres and
it just like a taxi there. He takes me in
and I asked him to take me to um like
any hotels. That dropped me off bit of hostile. And
I go in and like, you know, we are fool
and then and they're and they're looking at me like
I'm crazy, like you're not gonna find anywhere, And I
end up just walking all over town and never been

(14:20):
there before, dragging my suitcase. At like one am, I
even went. I think I was in the police station
to allow me to use their phone, because that was
the only phone I could find I end up in
Scores Hotel down by eighteen Green, and somehow winding down there,
I didn't even realize how close I was at the
course at that moment, and walking They had room and
it was like two pounds of nights, like four American

(14:43):
and I'm like absolutely not. And I kept asking the
guy and I'm like begging and begging and begging, and
he finally says, I'll tell you what if you let me,
If you'll help me clean the restaurant, I'll let you
stay in the restaurant. You can sleep under a table.
But the owner comes here early. I'm sorry if this
this employee still works there. The owner was gonna listen
to the podcast. It was like the owner comes in early,
so you gotta be up by like six, And so

(15:05):
I did. And I scrubbed those tables so hard and
I was busting and I was stacking chairs, and he
was really happy with me, and I slept. He wakes
me up about six am, and I still remember it
was right in the corner, like I almost get like
goose bumps together. He put a perfect English breakfast, you know,
like the toast of beans and everything on the table,
and I got up and I now knew how close

(15:25):
we were too. I mean I was looking at eight
teams right there. It's incredible. And then anyways, I still
didn't have a place to sleep. I still didn't have
any golf clubs. So I went down to that little
pro shop that's right up from from the Green. I
got clubs. I went down to the caddy shack to
like check in and throw my name in. Thank goodness,
it was raining, so it was actually they thought I'd

(15:46):
a pretty good chance of getting on. And I asked him.
I said, Dave Lindsay still working. And Dave was a
was a Scottish caddy that had worked at a Stantia
club and he and I had built up a pretty
good relationship. And he said like, oh yeah, that old guy,
like yeah, oh yeah, you better believe he's here. I'm like, well,
were you? Let it? Let him know he used to
call me Sweet Willie at Santa I said, let him know,
sweet Willie from Arizona's here. And I mean, like ten

(16:08):
minutes later, I hear this like sweet Willie like coming
down that sidewalk right there. It gives me a huge hug,
like we hadn't seeing each other in a decade, which
probably I mean it's been like four or five years
at that point. And uh and anyways, long story short,
he brought me rain gear and uh and shoots and
like it was just like the caddymaster had told her,

(16:30):
whoever was there a starter told him, and so I
couldn't And and then I ended up staying the weekend
with Dave and he had floated out this idea about
maybe coming back, and then that queue on the roof
and was like, hey, let's start doing this. And then
I think I reached back out to Dave and said, hey,
do you think my roommate could come too? And He's like, yeah, sure, um,
which is not let me is not a solid job offer.

(16:51):
That is the theme of our story about getting over there.
You know, I asked people online for questions, you know,
send in questions about this, because again I never really
formally spoke about our our time over there when we
got a chance to Caddy and I think about it now,
is a thirty six year old going back to two
thousand six for a bit, you know, finishing college. You
and I both finished, and we are out. I mean

(17:12):
we literally finished college and leave and and so you
fly over to we basically say Okay, we're gonna do this.
I mean, you didn't you are leaving new where Dave lived.
I just I was waiting for you on the sidewalk
for like, I mean like two hours, Like I was
out there, like I didn't even know it was it was.
I mean when it again, like when it gives me

(17:33):
anxiety now thinking about how unplanned this whole experience. I
remember that I had a girlfriend at the time that
was going on a program in New York City, and
I was I went home to Texas with all of
my stuff because college was done, and which was funny
because I drove all this stuff to Texas and the night,
like four months later, drove all of it back to Phoenix.
So it's like it was an hour and a half

(17:53):
away from ended up moving. Anyway, it was a really
really good plan a by me. I was a great
planner in my twenties. But we you got over there
a day before I got there. And I remember again
you're talking about planning. I mean there was we didn't
have iPhones, we don't have GPS. You told me I'm
down this street, this is the number I fly in
take a train. Kind of the same thing, same process

(18:15):
you went through, and you're out on the sidewalk. I
walk up. You are having a beer in an apartment
that I believe was Dave's. And there was a couple
other guys that I think Tom was in there at
this time, Tom and Matt. And Matt was a check
man who's an American. We'll talk shout out the Matt
food check who probably will listen. And and and you
had Caddy the Kingsbarns that day, the first day, the

(18:38):
first day of being in Scotland. You're jet lagged, and
you caddie that Kingsbarns, which is a golf course you've
never seen. And by the way, on a side note,
I if you're processing this story right right, you're walking
up after flying halfway across the world, and I'm telling
you that at Caddy that day, not at the course.
I said we were going to be caddying. And by

(18:59):
the way, it's your get this part of the story.
We're not living at the place. I said, we're going
to live in there, so you've it is a very
small city. I mean it iswhere you can walk everywhere.
I mean, I don't know what the square footage is
the square mile mile of St. Andrew's, but it's not big,
and you can get across the city and probably ten
twelve minutes on foot. It is very easy to get too.

(19:20):
So when I say I'm walking on the street, I
am probably yards from the eighteenth Green, you know, maybe
maybe an eight minute walk, swift walk, eight minutes, maybe
a little bit less. And you said it. We are
living with a lady who had that David set us
up with, who had offered up a room in her
house that had to twin beds, and it was that

(19:42):
was a lot of quality time together. By the way,
it was a room with twin beds is like a
room with two twin beds and then the little roller
things that we'd hang our clothes. If you live in
the city and you've lived in like a studio, that
you understand what we're talking about. So two beds, and
it was forty pounds a week per person, but it
was for five more pounds. So for forty five pounds,

(20:03):
which at the time was about ninety bucks a week
as you pay rent by weeks over there, for five
more pounds she would do our laundry and it was
that was that's the best value bank for Bucker I've
ever gotten in my life. To this day, she she
was the best laundry person ever. I still like, to
this day I come in about it to Megan, I'm like, well,
I've used to iron my underwear. I mean she would

(20:24):
just learn everything. Everything it would hang dry in that
Scottish air and she would iron everything and like your
sucks like I mean, she was awesome and and diligent
and she was love. Just couldn't have been a nicer lady.
I mean, like, legitimately was as fine a person as
you'll meet. She enjoyed us. You know, we were we
would leave in the morning and get back late at night.

(20:45):
I mean, we weren't around the house a lot. I
mean it was it was kind of go go go
with that time, so very motherly, and you couldn't understand
the things she said, very few of the work best
thick accent. So okay, So do me a f of
her if you can kind of walk me through you
arriving the day you get in, how you get to Kingsbarns,

(21:09):
to Caddy, and then getting us to that next day,
which would have been my first full day in St. Andrew's,
having a meeting with the caddy master to get jobs
to caddy at the most famous golf course in the world. Yeah,
so you know, I showed up in the same way
you showed up, like bright eyed and confused. Um, just
a day before and um I walked in and yeah,

(21:31):
I got this like afternoon or something like that. And
I walk in and I remember this in no offense
to Tom. Tom if you let's listening to this, but
he had like the worst smelling feet I've ever smelled
in my entire life. Like it was like nauseating, like
took over the room, right, it was unbelievable. And so
I just remember that smell, and I'm like, oh my gosh,
I have to live here. And then uh and then

(21:54):
and and Matt's food checks there too. So it's you know,
the first time I met him, Uh, first time I
met Tom and Dave and just chatting and so we
go in the back and uh, you know Davis normally
he had white wine and iron brew like so which
is orange soda. So he would he would drink this
like gallon of white wine from the gas station in
a in a orange soda and he makes it two together.

(22:14):
Pretty sure. You go through a whole thing a day
and he's just telling me, like, you know, not not
only does he not have a job for us at
the at the old course, but he didn't have room
for us at the house, so he's arranged for us
to stay with a friend of his, was this widow Ivy.
That was the best thing that ever happened to staying now,
because we went from that apartment to like this lovely

(22:34):
like like where she's literally ironed the the couch pill
is the sort of thing, right, there's another thing. So
that was a great thing. But I remember, uh, Dave
was walking me over to the house. He walked me
over the house, so I carried my bag over there,
introduced me to Ivy um and I was happy with that,
and then Dave started saying about the King's Barn thing.
And I can't even remember how I got the kings Barn's.
The next day, I think Dave drove me and I

(22:57):
went out there and I caddied, and I think it
was a combination. I think Dave said something to the
caddy master at St Andrews and they're like a call
was made from Kingsbarns saying, yeah, this guy knows what
he's doing and they needed help that the key issue
was that they were they needed extras at the old course.
Otherwise we would have still been at Kingsbarns. But but

(23:19):
they needed caddies, and so the combination at Dave and
then that guy vouching for us, and so then the
next thing, I know, the next day you and I
were down to because you never caddied at Kingsbarn's right, No,
no I didn't. I think it was your only one
was that first day. And so we go meet the
caddy master at Sanders, which the benefit. You know, I
get a lot of questions how did you get the job?
And I would say that ironically, one of the reasons

(23:42):
we got the job is that we were Americans and
not and not from Scotland. And I say that because
the caddy master had been at Pinehurst, correct, wouldn't get
Pinehurst for a while before. He was saying that you're
talking about Rick, right, And he liked and he liked
American caddies approach. I'm not gonna say more than he
liked the approach of Scottish caddies, but like the reliability

(24:02):
I think of it, showing up on time and exactly
and knowing that you know, if if he needs caddies,
we'd come around, and that we'll get to that story
a little bit later. Once you and I started to
figure out the process that works so well for us.
But we had a meeting. It was a very serious
meeting about how serious this job is. And you know,
people once in a lifetime experience on the golf course,
and you know, you gotta take a real seriously and

(24:23):
we're gonna do a training program where we give you
these common cards, you have your players figure them out.
And literally finished this whole thing to a couple of
two year old guys and goes, all right, you guys
are on the tea and twenty and we were like
what And he goes, you guys are on the tea.
Now you never played I mean I played it once.
I played it once that that time when it was
like raining a year before. But yeah, that was it.

(24:43):
I mean Tiger what I mean, hold on, you know
Tiger Woods, but Woods two thousand two, and maybe he
doesn't give you the PlayStation two when you're on like
three and four. It took me. I've seen this whole before, sir,
believe I've been literally the first loop we did, we
did together. And I mean there were times where on

(25:04):
and by the way, that is that is rare, like
keep off Matt food check, like he they had to
take written exam, they had to draw out a green.
Part of the exam was I think, I draw me
fifteen green. But they were so desperate and needed us
so bad they just threw us on the course. Well,
I think you getting vouched by Dave and having the
experience of the top club in America, and then me

(25:25):
maybe never saying that I did or didn't maybe just
beat you know, which is something I'm not good at.
I was just quiet in the background and never mentioned
that that I wasn't a caddy, you know. Yeah, So
I just kind of was behind you going out and
I listen to what they're saying about Will, listen to
what they're saying about Will. And so we were off
and running and uh and we we were looping at

(25:46):
the old course. And I will tell you there were
moments where you come up to me and go, what's
the line, And I'd come up to you and go,
where's the green, because like Ron Green, Well that's fifteen
the threes right there. So we are we are learning.
To say we are learning on the fly and learning
on the go might be the lightest use of that

(26:07):
expression ever. I mean we we are virtually clueless, and
we're having to kind of lie to the players were
with because we don't want to tell them, you know,
this is our first thing. We got paid for that.
Oh yeah, I mean it wasn't like it was a
free round. I mean we we they paid at the end,
so so so just to run you through when we
were there. And again, I'm not sure of how caddying
works now at the old course. I'm assuming I've I've

(26:29):
heard it's been different. Now I heard it's a different process,
but something. Here's how it would work when we worked
there was you would walk down to the caddy shack
in the morning and the first thirty caddy spots early
in the morning were reserved for the thirty caddies and
caddy the most number of times the year be prior
so they were considered senior caddies. So one through thirty

(26:50):
players off every morning. The senior caddies had that opportunity
to caddy there and if they were around, they got
one through thirty. After that it was first come, first served,
so you I early on would run down there when
the sun broke and we would try to be thirty
five or forty or forty five. And then we started
to learn that we didn't have to do that. Now.

(27:10):
What what happened, which Will had mentioned earlier, was we
had to pay to caddy. We had to pay the
caddy shed five pounds every day once not twice. So
if you caddy twice, the second loop didn't cost you
more another five pounds, but you had to pay you
basically your tax to caddy paid five pounds. So we
would give five pounds and then you would get your number.
And so your number there was a number on the

(27:31):
board and you would just kind of wait around until
they called your number. And then when your number was called,
you didn't get a player assign You just got a
tea time and that was when you walk up to
the tea time and you would basically pick your player
unless you were the last one there. And if you're
the last one there, you got the fourth player that
doesn't have hadn't had a caddy yet. So that's the
process of caddy. And and so what we learned again
was that we would get up real early you know,

(27:52):
we we were we were determined to because the sun
was up at like midnight. I believe the I believe St.
Andrew's is on the same latitude as Anchorage, Alaska. If
that gives people an idea of the sun in the
in the summers. But I always say, it's just midnight
blue all the time. It never gets totally dark. Um,
so we get up early. What we would do is
we would caddy and then we would have just this

(28:12):
extended break and come back and caddy again. But what
we learned was considering how late at days we'd have
was if we went in a little later, there was
a chance in the afternoon for our second loop, we'd
be the only caddy in the group. And that was
really important, very important. So you know, we we'd get

(28:36):
they would we would get. Normally, you get forty pounds
guaranteed for the caddy and then you get tipped, so
we get somewhere between fifty. You wanted to get the
slap of multiple bills. Here you got three twenties my
first loop and I have notes here will which is
hilarious because I kept notes of all my players. My

(28:57):
first loop, uh fifty pounds from June of Scotland in
the morning on June nine, two thousand six. Uh, that afternoon,
I got sixty pounds from Gary from Virginia. A lot
of American players we would carry for but yeah, I
just wanted to hear you know, you what if you
can take me back too starting this job and we

(29:20):
start doing this and we get into this routine and
you're I mean, you and I are We're golf nuts.
We love history of the game, we love courses. Before
maybe the golf course Woke World had had had kind
of become a thing. We loved just getting a chance
to call this our office and uh and and we
would be out there looping, you know, day in and

(29:40):
day out, probably three four or five days a week,
and then we typically play golf on the weekend. You
and I just really loved the game, love the history,
and we love courses. And it was just like a
pig and mudd everything. If there's a trivia show where
you could just show a hole, you know, like a
blade of grass and a little bit of sandy back
oak mak and eighteen pebble seven, it's just like but anyways,

(30:05):
you know, there's a huge learning curve. I remember that.
So there's a couple of things that really stick out
to me. Uh in particular. One is a huge learning curve,
like every single round so much better and so much
more confident, because I mean even after like six seven rounds,
I mean there's areas on that course that you've never
been to. And so I mean there's a couple of them,

(30:26):
especially when you get out like uh like twelve, like twelve, thirteen,
fourteen range or all those that kind of come in
right there. There's a couple of different routes that you
can play on those holes, and so I think you know,
you figure that out after round like six seven, and
then what you do is you sort of make a point, Okay,
I'm gonna kind of walk that way, and so you

(30:46):
start scouting the ground because I mean more than any
other course, I mean, especially American course. You know, it's
you get what you're looking at. You know, it's Canaanna Stantia.
You're looking down the whole nine. It's whole nine like
you're not. It's not going in every which way um
versus st Andrews. There's so much variety. So that was one,
I mean, just huge learning curve. Uh. And then the

(31:07):
other thing that that was just really sticks out in
my head is I feel like you could tell immediately
if the player was at the beginning of their trip
or the end of their totally agree with you, right,
because there was you could just read it in their face,
you know, because if if someone is just off the ship,
like they just got the Scotland they are, they slept

(31:30):
and they wake up and they're going to the course
and they have this like majestic, fairy tale like view
of this, this Scottish caddy that's gonna sweep them off
their feet and know every yardage and read every put
and and and they're gonna play the bet and tell
them all the history of it. Right. And then in reality, uh,
no offense of Scottish caddies out there. You know, I

(31:51):
love you, but I mean, like you can't understand a
lot of them. A lot of them don't play golf,
So there's there's a huge lack of golf knowledge there.
And and overly honest, like like a brace of is
maybe there's some let's let'll see cultural differences, uh, and
then and then there's just like this like like asshole,
typer jerk mentality and and so I think after a

(32:15):
few rounds you're like, ah, And so if you're on
that first team and you have that fairy tale, you've
never been disappointed as disappointed. See, you know these two
kids from Texas on the tea box that no golf
really well, if you're at the end of the round,
you've never been so excited to see these two kids
from Texas that know the game of golf. That was

(32:36):
gonna be the first question I asked people on Twitter
to send in some questions about it. Josh Bold asked,
didnt players get mad because they wanted an authentic Scottish
caddy but got an American instead? You, that's that is
exactly what I would would I mean, you basically said verbating.
What I would have said is if it was the
first round of their Scottish trip, they were really bombed
to see us, and it was the last round of
the Scottish trip they were basically hugging us when yeah, exactly,

(32:58):
and that was that I went down. We're gonna say
a quick break and be right back. There was a handicap.
Cap basically has to be, I mean, the biggest farce

(33:20):
in the world. If you're listening to this and you
want to ever go to St. Andrew's, just tell this
starter like, just you print it out on a Microsoft
word I am a twelve handicap and you'll be good
to go. I don't even know if you need to do.
You could write in a dundee and napkin I'm a yeah,
I'm a member at the Olympic Club. Here's here's the
right you're not typing your gin into. But I was

(33:44):
I feel like of the things I took away from
that experience number one was and this, This is just honest.
I didn't realize how bad the average golfer was at golf.
It's a combination of I mean I would say probably
what would you say six loops were American players? Yeah,

(34:04):
maybe even high. It's a lot, especially in St. Andrews
and you and it's a different type of golf. I mean,
this golf is very different, the turfs, different interactions different.
But I mean, you know, you get these guys i'd
alway ask up with their handicapp is on the first
tea and and you know, what do you play? How
do you play? How far do you hit your driver?
Stuff like that that I can get a little sense
of what kind of player you are and will I mean,

(34:26):
you know, I mean you get guys. I mean if
they broke a hundred, you were Well, it's like demand's
course management, which is catty you should be able to
help with, but not everybody would listen to you. But
it really demands a lot of course management and like
experience with a lot of tight shots and shots that
are just more difficult and all the troubles on the right.
So if you're playing with the with the right handed

(34:47):
player and I can't point them out, yeah exactly, that's
it and it was my thing, and you just they
just constantly be in those monkers and the course or
anything else. I mean, it's just like all day long.
If they're not in the bunker, you're again for the
ball in the gors. Yeah. You you. You would tell
players like just trust me here. You can hit it
left as far left as you want and you'll be fine.

(35:08):
You can hit it straight and have a hundred fifty,
or you could hit a hundred yards left and yes,
and you would still get the guys that would aim
down the middle of fairway and slice it into those
bunkers or to your point, the gorse. You know, I
had an interview with Bubba Watson years ago in Scottsdale
before the waste management and uh, and I was asking him,
you know, I think he'd already won his first Masters,
and I said, you know, Bubba, if you were going
to pick another major that you feel like fits your

(35:30):
game the best, which one do you think you would pick?
And you know, he kind of gave kind of your
political I could play any golf course answers, and I
could play anywhere anything. And I it was the next
year with st Andrews, and I go, you know, I
I cadded to the old course, and I feel like
St Andrews made is a perfect golf course for you
with his he can hit that face. Yeah, oh yeah.
It's kind of your brains too. I mean you feed

(35:52):
it in. So a lot of the a lot of
the trouble tends to be in the center, and so
if you feed in an end right to left, that's
good thing, good things. So um, yeah, So that was
That's That's one one big thing that I want to cover.
That I wanted to cover was the fact that you
would you were either a ciph for sore eyes or
you know, you you were like the worst thing anybody

(36:14):
could ever see, depending on what part of the trip
um they would be in. So we we were talking
about our process and what we learned. So what we
would do is we would go later. We would eat
lunch a subway every day every day. Dude, I didn't
eat their want because I tried to pay with fifty rubles.
But you gotta tell them. Would you mind telling the
ruble story? You can you tell the rubles, but you

(36:35):
mentioned subways, so so would you mind? Are you in
the group with me? I don't think so. You know,
you and I weren't in groups a lot together. I
think they did that purpose. You know, we would always
be kind of like diversify the next next tea time
or whatnot. But um, you know you if anybody just
ever caddied, you know the rule when they give you
the money, you shove it right in your pocket. I mean,
you look at the money when they give it to you.
You you try to get it. You try to get

(36:57):
any cash out of side as fast as possible. You
were doing that, so so I um, I used to well,
so I know, I'll back up all the way. In
high school I used to love Caddy and for the
lady golfers because they were polite and fun and you
know what, for the most part, they hit the ball
down the middle. They didn't try to get try to
get over confident and hit it right and it hit

(37:19):
down the middle. And they a lot of times they
were pretty consistent with the woods, so would be you know,
three wood, three would and it was they were just
the best and so and if you took care of um,
the ladies some sometimes not always, sometimes the husbands would pay.
And had the husband's been in a different group, like
away from their spouse for five hours at this point

(37:41):
and their spouse comes in and they had just the
best time ever, you better believe that that husband was
pretty happy and he was going to be pretty well.
Um and so anyways, so that the that was the
case this time. So I caddied for four ladies and um,
we had just one of the afternoon rounds where you
were the only a caddy in the group knows it
was the morning because we haven't lunch, and it was on,

(38:05):
Oh my goodness, what's the one all the way to
the right, I'm having a plank the course, Oh, Jubilie.
So we played Jubilee by the way, we would caddy.
We would caddy at the old course the majority of
the time, but if if they needed caddies at the
new course for over there. So I mean there, you know,
I have my notes here mostly old, but we were
there are times where with caddy on New and Jubilee.
So not only do we we have to learn three

(38:30):
and the other two golf courses are tougher for the
average golf. Yeah, so we're we're um, so we're playing Jubilee.
We are as four ladies. We had the best time ever.
And we come in and the it was four ladies
and their four husband's played in front of us, and
the four husbands waited on eighteen, and then they started
walking back, and so they walked eight after they finished

(38:52):
out eighteen to walk back to the fairway with us
and walked up and she had had like a career round.
She said, I was the best caddy ever. And and
she's just like, I had the best time. I love
will blah blah blah. And the husband just goes out
a boy and he slid, he slid a bill in
my a couple of bills in my um in my pocket,

(39:13):
and and I'm like all right, and this was that thing.
It was multiple bills, yeah, and so uh and so
I'm all excited. So I'm I'm I'm happy, and it's
just nice that she's having such a good time. But
you're polite, you don't look at it. And so I
finished around you and I go to subway and I think,
I don't know who was ahead of who, but we're
making sandwich and we get the line and I take

(39:34):
the money out and give it to the person and
they're like, what is this? And I said, it's money,
is not money, and they give it back to me.
And I looked at it and it was rubles Russian
and there was a Chase bank across the street, and
so I like flush red like grabbed the money, and
I still remember the number. I ran across the street

(39:55):
and I like went into the teller and I like
gave even the money and I said how how what
is this and how much is it worth? And he said, uh,
he said that looks and and GE's it in and
then he uh, he's like that's a dollar thirty four
or at the pound pound thirty four, pound thirty four

(40:18):
and and if you remember, you said a few minutes ago, right,
we paid five pounds to Caddy. So I lost five
pounds minus one pound thirty four to Caddy that day.
You know, it's like five hours of work. And so
I am just like so flustered, and I run down.
I was like run down to like, I mean, it's

(40:39):
been an hour at the since we walked off to
get the subway all night, and so I I I'm
walking down right in front the Score Hotel. Actually I'm
coming down that street and um, and I saw a
lady in the group and I stopped there. I'm like, man,
you know, I'm so sorry, but I think that there
was a mistake at the end, you know, I was
I think I got paid in roubles and I think

(41:00):
I was supposed to be paid in pounds. And I
showed her the rubles and she started laughing and um,
and she said they had just gotten from they were
in Russia the week before, and she gave me sixty
pounds to it. Now, if you have caddied, you know that.
If there's one thing caddies have, it is nicknames. Yeah. Yeah.

(41:22):
So the next day, so the next day I didn't
tell anyone. I don't recall telling anyone. Uh. And then
the next day you and I come down and run
into and the walk into the caddy hut. You get
our number walking into the caddy hut, and I just
rubles Rubles to this day, I mean those guys still,
I mean Matt food Checks still calls me rubles. I
mean Joe Ferry Rubes. I think your peopularity in the

(41:45):
caddy shacks it was helpful for the roof because you
had a good story. So so just just because you
know we're running, I want to get to some questions
and such from some people that had to asked him.
But so you and I are obviously Americans over there
caddy and we get really lucky. We run into two

(42:06):
guys um that caddy at a club in America. So
they caddy at a club in the States that's nice,
and they come over to St. Andrews. They get a
job there. They have a car, which was huge for
us because we didn't have a car, and so now
our golf started, so we had a chance. They had
Now it was this tiny car. Remember, so we had
to fit four people size men and four sets of

(42:27):
golf club which wasn't always the easiest. Now, I also
wanted to mention that you know, we played. What was
cool is we played golf courses around the St. Andrews
area that you know, if you go over there on
a trip, you never play. I mean Rail London Links,
which which Brad Faxton, who you know I worked with.
Brad qualified for a British Open at London Links got
an honorary membership and I've told him about it before.

(42:49):
I love. I thought you were gonna say Brad says
that's his favorite course, Like, no, that's not. It's a
good car, but you know it's a great golf. We
would go play these golf courses. We did have a
very instring moment. Um mentioned that the two guys caddy
at a really nice club, you know, one of the
best clubs in America, and they went and played car

(43:10):
one day. Thank you for time. I know exactly what
you're gonna do. You remember what they said? So I'm
gonna hold on, let's let's pause for a second. I'm
gonna tea this up. Um. It has been it was
fourteen years. You and I haven't talked about this since.
I don't think we I do not recall in this conversation,
and fourteen days later, you and I both remember this

(43:33):
comment as if it were yes, I know exactly what
you're gonna say. Yes, So I don't want to mention
the club is and it just I don't want to
get anybody in trouble here. But these guys Caddy it
are really nice club. I'm just gonna say, top fifteen
club in America. And um, and they go play CARNEWSTI
and you You and I hadn't played carne Ye know
we hadn't We played over there. We did shortly after

(43:55):
this comps. It was quickly so they come back from
CARNEUSI so Newste from St. Andrews. I'll say, I'll say
it's probably an hour an hour and a half, two
hours drive. You can practically see it from the court.
I mean you can literally right there, but you got
to go around at a time. Plus they there's there's
no sides, impossible to find Carnousti is. I don't know
anybody ever finds it, but we somehow find it when

(44:15):
we went and played it. Theay over there and play
it before us come over and go this is better.
How did we even get over there because they weren't
with us. My dad was open played with my dad,
so I was so we were all over there. We
stopped at that, we stopped at that um little pub
on the way back. Yeah. The weird thing is, I remember,

(44:36):
this is super strange. I remember what outfit you you
wore the day we played Carnousti. I think it's because
I have all the pictures you took, all the pictures
you took on your digital and other people yourself, and
you're black, mock turtleneck and khaki. Yeah. I shot carns

(44:56):
mock turtle. That was shout out to Tiger bringing them
and still have it in dad pop swears at all times.
So they these two guys who we they were like
our best friends, come back over. We're sitting at a
pub in St. Andrew's may go this is better than
insert club they work at. And we are like, wait
a minute, yeah, what they're like, Carnousti is like the

(45:18):
best golf course they ever played. It it it it
outshines every place in America. And we were like, whoa
and in the most sincere I have something really important
to tell you guys. From the depths of my heart,
this is the best course I've ever played. And this
is what six So you know, we we we've seen Vandaveld,

(45:40):
We've seen the Vandervelt not too long before, and um
we go over there and play Carnesi is great. I
mean I don't think. I don't. I think maybe we are.
Expectations were a little high for for that, but um
it was fun. So a couple of questions I wanted
to get to. First question from our friend Amanda Rose,
who asked, who is the superior caddy? Be honest? I
do you like? The ANSWER's got to be you. I'm

(46:03):
the guest in the house. You have to you have
to be polite, would be bad manners, would Texas You've
done it before. You know, you're nicer than me, Like
a lot of you care probably more about what people
are saying. I'm just trying to get taiten. Um do
you remember specifically? Another question we got? Do you remember specifically?
This is from Tom st Steiner? Tom Steiner Evans Tom,

(46:28):
who was the best player you caddy for? What do
they shoot on the old time? Remember? I do? I?
I don't, and so I remember it because the round
was a circus, So I got yeah he was. There
was two gentlemen from Spain and the guy played on
the European tour and he was a stick and for
whatever reason, you know, he wasn't a well known player,
and like he didn't have his card and they wouldn't

(46:49):
let him to off from the backs and you had
that's right, right, and this is a really big deal,
like the only one that was allowed to play the
tips you have to be a card caring professional and
um and the a uh they were really upset about it.
And so they teat off nicely from the you know,
the regular teas on hold one and we get to
hold two and he's walking to the back and I'm

(47:09):
walking to the mid up front, and he's like, you know,
well back here, let's go, and and this lean's on you.
I mean, yeah, I'm thinking I'm gonna get fired by
the end of the round. Who was the guy that
would sit in the Remember like seven and eleven? Remember
you sit right there and you yes screen Yeah, so

(47:31):
seven and eleven cross for those that don't know, you know,
seven uh seven comes up and goes right. That's the
big famous shell bunker, Sell bunker. The shell bucker is
shell bunker and um and then eleven is part three
and it comes back and you're literally hitting over each
other and so the course has a marshal out there.
It's just always a cluster and and we we heat.

(47:52):
This guy would not play middle tees, and the marshals
were coming out every other hole and yelling at me
and yelling at him and telling them they're gonna throw
us up. Of course. And I don't know how we
finished around what we did. Um. All I know is
he's the best player. What do you know? What do
you remember what he shot around? No? No, he was
under part for sure. I mean he didn't he was.
He was roping it and I mean he he just

(48:15):
made it look easy. So I mean it wasn't It
was a good weather day. I remember it was, Sonny.
I mean I remember the round so well because it
was such a circus. Yeah, that's not what you don't
remember the remember. And then that is such a comment,
you know, I mean you go back to your Candidas
a minutes like, I don't care what you remember down
in the bunker. I don't know. I don't care what

(48:36):
you did. I just care about what the number was
when you were done, and the fact that you tipped
me x Y and Z. I can't you know, I
think and this this might not be true. But I
believe I only had one player shooting the seventies and
it was an x NFL player that I can had
one player seventy and I think that was it. I
think I only had one person shoot like legitimately shooting
the sun. You know, might have had a couple of
players that they would scare it, but you know I

(48:57):
had one guy and he shot around seventy five. So
if anyone can we go back to his the better
caddy question, because I think I had more players shooting
the seventies than you, So I think that says it.
I think that answers the question. Yes, I mean I
definitely didn't. I will say the best person I had
in my group that I did not caddy for h

(49:17):
was Peter Thompson. Peter Thompson and uh, you know obviously
won five Open championships and it's kind of the king
of Scotland and uh, and he was in the group
and I didn't realize who he was going down the fairway.
He was, I'm gonna guest in his seventies at this one.
Did you put it together? Like how one of the
caddies told me, He's like, do you know who that is,
But I mean it was he rope in the he

(49:38):
was he was old, but he hit it, get in
the button you could tell like and wasn't going anywhere.
But Peter Thompson was my group playing the old course.
I mean that was to me the story and the
coolest thing that happened to me, Um was that we're
gonna take a quick break and be right back. Got

(50:06):
a lot of these questions, and I know my answer
were shot you saw anybody hit? Um, if you have
one that that really comes to mind. If you don't
and you're thinking about it, I'll just tell mine. I've
told this story a couple of times before, so if
you've heard it, I apologize. But you mentioned seven and
eleven the cross I had a caddy playing seven eleven
is the part of three, one of the hardest part
three in the world, especially if the pins up front,

(50:28):
the shortest part of five in the world. Good. I
mean Rural Dornick I played has a part three that's
like that, And I know there's a couple other weeks
put that behind the bunker and it is. It's just
you basically play short of the green and hip up
and try to make a foot or in uh and
when you caddy, you would definitely, uh you would advise
your players that way, let's lay up. But what's what's

(50:48):
the artiste? Yeah, that's one front. And so I had
a player plane to uh seven and the pin on
eleven was like on the left side of the green.
You know, this is probably what would you say, a
hundred and fifty yard wide green, but well yeah, I
mean you're counting all the way over in seven. Yeah,

(51:10):
and and my guy hit a low The only one
more is maybe it was it four and fourteen. Yeah, yeah,
that was a huge green. Huge. I think that's the
biggest screen in UM. But the I he hit a
he had a low snapper and it smoked a guy
putting on eleven in the middle of the back, and
the guy didn't move. It hit him in his back
and he just kind of he kind of looked and
then hit this Putton knocked it in and I was like, well,

(51:31):
I'm not messing with that guy. So I remember that
being a shot that was just got awful and obviously
ended up affecting somebody else playing, so so that the
one went up being anyway, it's just just somebody certain
someone in this room was standing on eleven t and
I was behind you and a player wasn't my cat,
It wasn't my player, but one of the players in

(51:52):
the group pulls it last four and it nailed you
in the calf. Yeah yeah, hit me, hit me, hit me.
Was so still will still be able to go through.
But that's okay. You're gonna get you know what, You're
gonna get hit out there. If you spend enough time
on that golf course, you're gonna get hit. How impactful
to your day was the cart that was the snack

(52:14):
shock behind It was behind nine, you know, the no
no snack shock. I mean they sold ginger beer at
the old course back like in the sevent hundreds, but
there was no snack shack there. So we would have
a golf cart would pull up part behind nine and
when you made the turn. My entire day was defined
by if my player bought me something that was I

(52:36):
was just gonna say that. I was just gonna say
it was. It was better if the player bought for me.
I don't think I don't think I ever spent money there.
It was like if they was so poor, you know,
we're spending so much money on golf and everything else.
I I just started. It was a way to conserve
if I spend my money at subway, Yeah, subway or
the bar and then and then uh and then and
then on the reverse side of that. The most depressing

(52:57):
moment was when you were doing the late afternoon round
and you saw the cart leave and you're hungry thirst
that because it would I mean, it would be like
two hours left. When when I when I would have
a bad loop, you know, I mean like when you say,
I mean when you think about the way we talk
about golf, and it's the outward and the in word.
I mean, the whole idea of that is based on
the old course. I mean, the old course is out

(53:18):
and you literally walk eight holes out and then you
walk in and that's how you do it. And basically
the town just gets smaller, smaller, smaller, and you turn
around it gets bigger, bigger, bigger until you get the teen.
And when I had when I had a bad loop,
when I had a guy that was maybe not a
very good player and he was kind of an a
hole and all that. I just know there were moments
where I'd be on you know, seven in an eight

(53:39):
t and I look back and the town looks so
and you go, God, I gotta walk all those steps back.
I didn't want to mention I early early on, I'm
ye know. Two, I got a little uh. I worked
on a little business deal. Remember the Dukes. Remember the
hardest golf course that's ever been ever ever golf course

(54:02):
called the Dukes. Have no idea what the name of
it is. If it's the Duke's still good. I was
still there. I think it's a good track. I mean
it was great different. I mean it was very different inland,
not l it was. It's probably an eight or nine
minute drive from you know, center of St Andrew and
this crazy beautiful clubhouse that looks down on the city.

(54:24):
It almost an old castle. I work a deal with
them because they had a grass driving range. And my
deal was, if you allow us to practice out here
and occasionally play, I will push players that I can
too if they have an extra afternoon to come play here. Now,
I made this deal without ever playing the golf course.
Will and will you and I play the golf course

(54:45):
one day. I'm not sure we sent them enough business either.
It was so hard. We played the backs like yards.
If you missed the fair way you didn't find your
golf ball. It was with the there's that hole with
the power lines and it's like a long part five
sleeping right and you just that grass was like four

(55:07):
ft high. I mean, it's just oh, it was great.
So Chris asked, what was the most interesting, non obvious
play that you encourage people to make off a t
or on any given hole with the old course. Something
you'd pick up you playing the course a little bit,
pull push left on thirteen or pull left on thirteen.
You hit left? Yeah, I mean for sure that has
to be okay. So you hit it left of all

(55:28):
the bunkers you hit yeah, like you're hitting it up.
You're basically hitting it up seven? Right? Is that of six?
Ye have sex? And then you if you've actually got
a really flat shot coming back at the green with
with not with not much with not much bunker because
if you hit it down the fairway that we're intended,
you got a tough You got a tough shot. Your

(55:49):
approach is a lot more. My answer to this question
is is just I would play away from bunkers at
all costs. So I mean, if it was I mean,
if if I'm telling a guy to play it. If
I want a guy to play ten yards left of
shell bunker, right, I'm in a point of twenty five
yards left a shell bumker. Because I know that if
we and I mean you, you, anybody that's that's caddied
or played or anything. I mean, if you get a

(56:10):
higher handicapped player in a bunker, it's death for the round.
And if they're in a bunker with a wall that's
five ft tall. Really, my entire, my entire theory around
the golf course was just to avoid going and stand
at all costs. And if we could do that, typically
the round would be okay, you know you could at
least get it around. Yeah, no, staying staying left really

(56:31):
the whole round, I mean the one so there. There's
two or three other shots technically that come to mind
too long on the road hole. So a lot of
caddies will aim aim their player just try to hit
on an eighteen tea box because that tea box it's
right behind seventeen green and if if you can land
it kind of in that area, it's not a bad approach.
Versus if you're in front of the road hole, if

(56:51):
that pins back left and you're in front of the
road hole, or haven't forbidden in the road hole? My
good luck. It's just you might as well blow out
to the right and then shape three. But that that
is right if you ever played there in the pins anywhere,
not on the front ride hit the eighteen tea box
a great place to be in there. And then the
other one that's really surprising is literally you can't be
left enough on one. Agreed that there there's you. You

(57:15):
could hit it like a hundred and fifty yards left
on one and you are totally fine. And ditto to eighteen. Um,
the approach coming into eight teens a little bit different,
but the approach coming into one from the far left
is if it's not you know, you don't lose anything
and you you take the burn out. So um, I

(57:35):
will say of the holes at the old course that
I never understood, I never captured it never makes it. Yeah,
I would say the number one hole that I still
don't get. I mean I've been back over a few
times and had a chance to play there. I still
have no clue where to hit a T shot on twelve. No,
you know twelve is if you stand on the tee,

(57:56):
you don't see any of the ball straight ahead to right,
and for the most right, it looks like a very
easy part from and you can't see the bunkers because
the golf course obviously used to play the other way,
and so you'd see all the bunkers playing up to
the green when you tee off where now theoretically the
green would be. And so I not no clue, no never,
fairway is so tight. I would give a lot like irons,
a lot off of that iron three wood that's sort

(58:18):
of play. But yeah, I totally agree that that's gotta be.
I mean, honestly, it's probably gotta be the hardest one.
But you know what, it would make me nervous as
a caddy walking off because you know, you get nine
and ten, which are both very very easy part fowards.
I mean for any player nine nine, driver wedge or
you're not on the greening through seventy and then uh
tennis driver and a pitch too. So eleven was always tough.

(58:39):
But I recall you driving nine one time, by the way,
with it was either three wood or a two iron.
In my head it was it was down when and
I'm in my head I have it as a two
iron A long time ago. But it was one of
those heroic shots here. But yeah, and then you I
would always when I would get to twelve t I
would always be so nervous because I'm supposed to be
the guy that knows what's going on, and I had
no idea what the hell to tell my player. So,

(59:01):
like you said, it'd be like hit a five iron
and then you hit it five iron of the bunk
and you feel like an idiot. Great question here, because
I have a point to make here. David Earle asked
what type of year did you have for different weather
conditions and what was the best and worst weather you
caddied for. Now, we had these caddy bibs that I
still have. You still have yours? Right? Someone packed away
It was a caddy bib. It came over. It had
a little pocket for yardage books, tease, all that stuff.

(59:23):
Not waterproof in St Andrews. Not not not at all
water if anything, It absorbed water literally waits at the
end of the round if it was right. Um, so
that was what we were given. And then you could
buy caddy. You could buy Sting official Sat Andrews and
you had you you buy I didn't buy it. You

(59:43):
bought it. I bought the top in the pants. That
was money well spent that you didn't buy it. I never,
I didn't buy it. It was a huge regret of
mine after I didn't think because you know, I wore
that jacket, I mean for years. I'm finally I finally
lost that jacket. Like a mover to ago. It might
have been. I thinks things faded up. I I I

(01:00:07):
mean I had some foot joy something or another. You
know that was that was good. I mean I remember
I got it before I went over there. Um, the
question was what was the best and worst whether you
caddying in. I don't remember the best. You know, we
as humans typically remember bad stuff over good stuff. The worst.
I remember. I remember, I remember new course that was
on third the third green, caddying on the new course

(01:00:28):
and I looked out it was raining completely sideways. I
was absolutely soaked. As you all know, you don't use
umbrellas over there. I mean it's completely pointless because of
the wind. It just flips them upside down. So you're
you're basically just soaked from head to toast and players
aren't going in. And I mean this is a trip, right, Yeah,
this is a memory of the lifetime. I remember I
was looking back at the clubhouse and we were on three.

(01:00:49):
So the round just started, and I was thinking of myself,
why in the hell am I doing this? Like why
am I? What am I doing? You know what? It
was like, I'm I'm I'm just out of college, like
the sucks, and I just rever thinking like what would
happen if I just left, Like if I was like, yo, man,
I'm done. I just can't remember. What would happen if

(01:01:09):
I just walked off with this guy and I didn't
and he just said, hey, man, here you go. Um
the funny thing, dude, I mean the other part. You
would see it coming right, it was the horror as
they would call it, and particularly you'd see it out
on the North Sea and it would be like you'd
see it out there, so it'd be like sunny or
warm or feeling just fine, and that's coming at you.

(01:01:30):
And so I think it would have been funny if
you had have been like, you know what, I'm good,
here's my jacket. You're gonna need it's here you go.
It's gonna hit really quick. You're not gonna like it,
you know, stay out of at a hell Bunker on fourteen.
That's my only advice. Rust Belt said, go to spot
after loop around the Old Course. Uh, I mean for

(01:01:50):
us it was done down. A lot of people always
say Jigger in, but I mean you, You and I
really didn't go to Jigger that much. I mean, like
definitely have the memories of their Joe Ferry, like our
cannybody used to love to go to the top of
the Old Course hotel, which was so cool. And the
cooler thing about Joe is, you know you and I
are starving college kids. Joe is like this successful guy

(01:02:12):
in South Carolina is doing this as like a retirement
like bucket list thing, and so he had he was
always paying. So it was like Papa Joe and I
loved open Scotch and he loved open Its great. This
is He's not gonna surprise anybody. But the hotel that
cost five pounds a night to stay in the bar
on the fourth floor not cheap. You and I were

(01:02:33):
looking for great view, so I'm not cheap. I would say,
if we're gonna say thanks by the way again, which
everybody's heard of, I would say our go to was
the way Pat I mean we'd go play that was
a little off the beaten path. Yeah, yeah, the dominos
to man Shane, My we're staying with my we're remodeling
this house. We're we're living with my folks right now.
And uh and my son got this thing in dominoes

(01:02:56):
and he's like, how do you play this? Um? It
was just one of those things. I didn't played dominos, right,
Just huge hit of memories came back to that. But yeah,
you and I used play a lot of domods and
darts too, and we play a lot of dominos and
we would play a lot of and and if we
had too many pints, it with a fried Mars bar
and that little gas station right next door. That was
the worst pizza ever. Oh my gosh, the pizza we

(01:03:18):
wasted and the pizza was haerble. So um yeah, enough
fin that they sted fine. I mean, you know, I
like I said a lot of questions about about kind
of conditions and and American caddies. I did get a
lot of questions about the first hole you mentioned, you know,
get far enough left. I had players hit it out
of bounds right a lot, you know, over by the Himalayas.
Always knew it was gonna be a long day when

(01:03:38):
that was the case, when you hit it right there, Um,
you know what again, just stay left? Yeah, And I
mean you get a lot of what I got a
lot of questions too about people asking what you do
if the player couldn't get out of the bunker and
you know, I I mean again, whatever happened in years ago.
But when I had a guy that was just you know,
just couldn't get it out, you know, chunk chunk, chunk chunks,

(01:04:00):
can't get it out. I don't feel like I ever
had the guy that would get so frustrated that he
wanted to keep doing it. I feel like most of
the players I don't ever remember that happening. I remember
some frustrating moments, and those bunkers of players, I don't
ever remember anybody like just staying in there for an internity. Now,
Luca asked what percented to t shots that you witness

(01:04:20):
hit the hotel in seventeen Uh, I mean, so I'm
gonna change I'm gonna change it to what percent per group?
And it was fifty fifty I mean maybe even more.
I mean there was a decent like one player per
group was gonna shank it over there. Um, one interesting

(01:04:40):
thing that I think people maybe don't know or understand
or whatever, is like, we didn't really play the old
course much. Did you play it a couple of times? Twice?
And I think I you and your dad play it.
We played it once and then and I either I
was in the I think I followed you. I think
I just walked it with you. Guys. I might even
carried your bag, carried the dead's. We would go play

(01:05:01):
the other. We would go so Tom, we played a
ton of golf. We just didn't play the old course.
I mean we would. They didn't give us a discount
on and the other. Like we could play the new
course or the old course for a decent amount of money.
New Course and Jubilee were decent. Yeah, the new Course
and Jubilee. And then what's the other eating? Yeah, we
played eating a lot and then and you get it

(01:05:22):
and then your business endeavor up at Duke, we play there,
decent face. I heard a rumor about the Dukes that
in the two thousand and ten Open Championship, the RNA
had an exhibition out there and they invited their awn
masters to play the sixth whole exhibition, and I think
it was Monty was one of them and Luke Donald
at the time, I'd have been number one of one

(01:05:43):
of them. And nobody made a birdie at the Dukes,
believe it. But yeah, we played eating a lot. Jubilee
knew the castle course I don't believe was built at
the time, so we didn't know. It wasn't way much
but was great. I mean the you know, the other
one we never played together at least was King Barnes,
I know never. It was just too I mean for
you and I it was just too much money. It

(01:06:03):
was too too much money. That was basically almost a
week's worth of pay for to do that. We're gonna
take a quick break and be right back do me favors.
We kind of slowly wrap this up. Can you just

(01:06:24):
when you look back on doing this. I know personally,
when I tell people I did it, I always get
you know, that's so cool you did it. I think
as I get older, I'm so appreciative of getting that
experience of getting a chance to do that for a summer.
I don't think I appreciated it as much at the
time as I wish I could share. Oh that's the thing,
I think. Yeah, And so just when you look back

(01:06:44):
on that summer and that experience and getting the chance
to do that each and every day and that being
our life, what do you what do you think about
and what do you tell your kids and your wife
and your friends about oh six at St Andrews. I mean,
I don't know from from this perspective. I mean I
think of right now, I have four kids, young kids, seven, three, one,

(01:07:05):
and you know, a busy job, and there's just so
much steams. There's so much stuff going on, like so
much activity like phone, phone, phone like this ding ding
ding ding ding um. And you and I were in
St Andrews living in a little room and caddy and
that's it. I mean there was no one looking for us,
Like there were no text messages to check when we
were coming off now of course, or emails or anything, right,

(01:07:27):
I mean, and we would go to coffee. We would
go to coffee shops and check our our email. That's
how we got our email. Yeah, yeah, at best every
other day or so. I definitely wasn't spent. You probably
spent more because you were still writing a little then, right,
a little. You have some pieces going for Sports Hill
straight on campus. But yeah, the the I mean that
I just think that the pleasantry of that lifestyle was
just so nice. And that's what that that's really the

(01:07:49):
memory that I have. Yeah, I mean one of one
of my memories I will never forget the memory of.
And I haven't really explained what we've hit on a
couple of times, but I said, you know what, what
we learned as American caddies was we need to arrive
a little bit later. And what why we did that
was for the afternoon loop. So you and I, if
we were gonna caddy one loop, we would gonna caddy too.

(01:08:09):
Basically was basically our philosophy. It's like we're gonna caddy
two loops because we saved the five pounds. If you
go Caddy one loop, you're paying five pounds, you're out
five pounds. If you get roubles and you're really screwed.
But if you get if you get sixty pounds, only
made five pounds for the day. So I mean Caddy
and twice you'd make a good amount of money. And
then what we learned was while St. Andrews has a
policy where you can't double bags, you can't carry two bags,

(01:08:31):
what would happen was they would run out of caddies
late in the afternoon and the tea times would go late.
I mean the sun would stay up for so long,
but you know it would be four pm and players
would be teeing off in the old course. There would
be no caddies around, so we would we would slow
play that we would walk to break that bunker for you, sir.
And what what would happen was the caddy master would
come out and explain to our group, this is Shane.

(01:08:52):
He's an experienced caddy. Of course he would you know,
he would indulge as well, been around for a while,
not to plug off course like the back of his hand.
He could only to carry one bag, but he will
help all the players if you guys promised to take
a little bit of care of Matt after the round.
And that was when we learned about eighty pound and
nine pound. We would really make a lot of money
in those afternoon loops. And that's that's and I mean

(01:09:13):
there were times I remember distinctly. There were times you
and I are walking down, you know, past the dun Vegan.
We're making that turn around the corner by the old
Tom Warris shop, and you would see him waving at us,
waving like came, come on, come on over, because there
was a group on the tea didn't have a caddy, which,
for the record, he was he was looking for us,
you know, right, I mean, it wasn't like the Scottish

(01:09:33):
guy who's in the top thirty guys like you know,
I'm done, I'm good. But you and I were really
like enthusiastic about it. I mean exactly right. I mean
it was and every time those guys would take care
of I mean sometime about an afternoon round two at
at St Andrew's as a majestic, I feel like the
weather tended to be better in the evening. I don't
know if that's scientific or not, but I just have
better memories of weather in the evening. And when you're

(01:09:54):
out a town looking back is gorgeous looking at the
it's it's the church steeples and the RNA and Hambleton's Hall.
I mean, it's just absolutely beautiful. Well like like I
look at my sheet right here in my loops page
of of some of the loops I went through it.

(01:10:14):
I mean, you know, Monday, Um six, nineteen o six,
afternoon round eighty pounds. You know what I mean, we're
we're trying to get sixty pig. That was a hundred
sixty one. I mean, I go, I keep going on
the list, you know. Uh July uh, July seventeen, ninety
pounds in afternoon round eighty pounds on the nineteenth from
John in California. Thank you John very much. Eighty pound loop. Uh.

(01:10:37):
By the way, that was a day. How about this
that day on the this this was sorry, this was
this was a back to back. It was I went
seventy five pounds, eighty pounds, ninety five pounds, three loops
in a row. Maybe we need to have a discussion
on best caddy. That's seriously, that's like three immediately for you.
My caddy bib is in storage, so it gets um.

(01:10:58):
But yeah, I mean it it is. I mean, I
know Oliver has has written a book. I urged people
if you're interested in reading another American Caddy. Yeah, that's
that's a great book to read about just the experiences,
some of the stories, some of the stuff you and
I you know, didn't really know about. I mean, I
think we were so evergreen about he was there multiple season, Yeah,
I mean we were we were so ever green in

(01:11:18):
terms of caddie challenges. You and I were like, we
got the experience, we checked the box and we're good,
let's go. Let's go back and they in Cuba. I
mean like Matt was out there a couple of seasons, right,
two or three. I don't know if he did three,
but he did too anyway, Yeah, I mean he I
mean that that he was out there. You know, he
was out there some Most of the people there are
out there to work, and we were out there to

(01:11:39):
work and do a good job. But I mean we're
also out there for this cool experience that we had
absolutely no ideas. So, uh, you know what, if there's
anything to take away from this, if you're listening to
this in your seventeen or eighteen or nineteen or twenty
and you have an idea about doing something that you've
always wanted to do, all I'm gonna say is, man,
do it, because you know will You've got four kids.
I have a one year old. Now, you know, we've

(01:12:00):
got responsibilities and jobs. I Mean, it's not like you
and I can can throw our our stuff in a
bag and go uh and get on a train to
Lucres and hope that we can get in and find
a place to live in a lady that will host us.
I mean that that life, you know, I mean, for
better and worse is is well behind us at this time.
But it was so much fun. It was so much
fun to get to do it. You know, it was
just so much fun to be over there and just

(01:12:21):
to be for a very small part of our lives.
You know, in this community that that is is maybe
the most special city in the world. Community is a
good word. Everything from the caddies to the town community
just perfectly describes that we would we would. We mentioned
that the snacks, we hope we get snacks at the turn.

(01:12:41):
The real hope was that our player would take us
to a bit after the round. That's happened quite a
few times. A couple of points. Do you remember when
we got tipped with the golf balls? Oh no, the
bridge stones. Yeah, they there was well that guy was.
It was like a husband and wife and they'd heard
they read something that caddies love golf balls, which is

(01:13:04):
just completely the but couldn't be more options in the
last thing in the world you want. And uh and
they they tipped us fine. I think they may be
given us like a sixty pound, right, which is all
we're asking for. And hey, we got something for you
in the car and they're all excited and they handed
us to sleeves the balls and were like cool and
they said, what you don't you're not excited about that?
And we were like no, no no, no, I don't, I don't.

(01:13:24):
I don't even know what we're talking about. And uh,
and they're like, well, I guess we'll scratch that. I
think they were earlier trip people, you know, trying to
give us, trying to give us golf balls golf balls.
But my favorite story of being taken out for drinks
was I got a lot of Japanese golfers too. I
think that the Japanese have a particular soft place in
their heart for St. Andrew's. I was caddying for these guys,

(01:13:46):
four guys, and they didn't speak much English. Um. But
after the round, which, by the way, do you remember
some of these were, it was like horrit though Cory
Shiro was white flag and red flag. Okay, no I
do not, I'm remember, I remember, I mean caddy for
enough to I remember. They started learning some some Japanese words,
golf terms at least, and uh, there as we go

(01:14:08):
out for drinks. Megan was there. My wife and she
had come to visit. And so Megan was waiting for
me eighteen and we're coming off the green and you
know my like twenty something, you're old, beautiful, yeah, gorgeous
front of the girlfriend was waiting for us at back
eighteen green and the guys are like, oh, good friend.
And then yeah, like come on, like let's go to

(01:14:30):
the bar. And they kept trying to get Megan to
bring her friends. And they were like they kept trying
to have the friend. They kept asking. They're like like
almost like what's the word for friends? Like your friends
come like she's from Arizona, her friend is Ivy. You know.
Like they had so much fun with my wife and me.

(01:14:53):
It was just like that was the mode. They were
such nice guys. They bought all the drinks that we
had such a good time. I just I would I
remember when you'd get the you would get the let's
let's go grab a couple of drinks. I I had
I remember, Um, I mean I had a few loops
and they would do that. I I met a guy
that I had for in New York City one time

(01:15:15):
and had a drink with him, you know, when I
when I moved back there after uh after st Andrews.
I mean, there's definitely relationships. I I remember I went
up to Jerry Tardy. I heard that. You know, at
this time, I'm twenty two, and I think I'm some
like unbelievable golf rid right. I wrote for the Arizona
the Wildcat for four years, so I must be great.
And they were. They were there for the open and

(01:15:36):
they were playing around, and I remember I set up
shop waiting him to finish. On eighteen, I went up
to Jerry Tardy and introduced myself, and I remember, I
don't remember who the writer was. I'm sure he's still around.
I'm sure he's still doing it. I mean, you know
him das somebody like that. But I remember the writer.
I said, I'm I'm my name is Shane Bacon, and
I'm I'm trying to get into the writing business. I'd
love to talk to you about a job or whatever.
And Jerry was very nice. I believe he gave me

(01:15:57):
an email address. But one of the writers goes, you
don't want to get in this business. You do not
want to get in this business. Why would anybody ever
say this like this is my dream job is to
be a golf writer. You know that's so crazy, you know?
And so yeah, I mean that that's the stuff. I mean.
I I caddy for Cliff Drivesdale, one round tennis, tennis
broadcaster who does Wimbledon. I think you did your first

(01:16:17):
broadcast Speaking of that, I think you did your first
broadcast on St Andrew's. Then I failm it, weren't you
remember that? Yes? Seventeen t is that? What was that
for a golf channel or something you're auditioning? Where did
we get a camera from? We we must use my
digital camera must have had a video function on it?
That was I bet that was it? I mean it
must have been. I mean, I hope that video doesn't exist.

(01:16:38):
I'm pretty sure it exists. It needs to be this.
I appreciate it. Anything else you got and anything else? Uh?
Anything else about the time? Have you been back over
four kids? Well? I know, but I'm just saying, I
just whever I my one of my last and it's
one of my best memories of the old course. Was

(01:17:00):
on one of my last days there. I think I
think his name was David Hamilton's remember and Hamilton's was
one of the caddies. His dad was one of the
historians at the RNA and um and I was talking
to his dad or something. He's like, if you ever
like a tour of the RNA, I'm happy to do it.
And here's like the historian of the RNA invited me,
and he's like, you gotta find a suit, but I'll
you know, jacket and tie, but I'll give you tour.

(01:17:22):
And so I was like all over that. And so
Ivy that we're living with gave me her her deceased
husbands jacket which sort of fit and his tie which
I could you know, LinkedIn and tuckles, I think. And
I remember going down and then the couple of caddies
saw me and the like rubles, you know, and I'm
in a jacket and tie and and he was uh.

(01:17:44):
And David took me through. Then I was like one
of my last days there and it was so cool.
It was everything I wanted it to be. And he
knew everything about everything and looking at the pictures and
the history of the not only just the club, but
the town in the game, and it was such a
neat experience. And then I left right after that it
was really serendipitous. And I've never been back, but I

(01:18:05):
keep saying, I'm like, we're almost forty. Sometimes I know
a couple of people I can get a set up.
I mean, I can maybe would welcome us back, you know.
I every time I go, I knocked. I knocked on
her door. In the last I think she moved. So
I used to send her a Christmas card and I

(01:18:26):
reached out to I reached out to her daughter, um
and and she said she would love to see you.
But I think I was already out of out of
this the last time I went, so I didn't get
a chance. But she realized you're like a famous person
in that category. Now a little bit, um. Do you
remember the best meal we had while we were there?

(01:18:47):
Do you remember this? So the mini said, well, so
it's not a fried fried Mars bar. No, that that's
what I was. That's what I wasn't in the town
of St Andrews. Do you remember our big Life four
blow out dinner? We went to Edinburgh, went to hard
Rock Cafe, remember, and we get and I fell asleep
done on the train. These gum Americans are showing up

(01:19:09):
bringing every bud wise where they have, but it was
five pounds. We're drinking like twenty of them. We have
no money to do that. All right, You're talking about
things I like look back on and and I'm like,
I'm almost I don't know if I'm embarrassed or confused
about but we're living in Scotland. You go to one
of the most historical towns in history, like Edinburgh, Scotland,

(01:19:31):
like unbelievably good, like Edinburgh, like museum, there's so much
to do. You and I my at least extent in Edinburgh,
it was hard rock cafe with you and then why
too many beers and sleeping on the train back the Lukers.
So do you feel like true Edinburgh experience is what

(01:19:51):
you're telling me? Absolutely embarrassing? You think it's just a
hair outside of the hard rock. Maybe if we'd gone
to a plane of Hollywood it would have been a
little better. But that was great. Thanks. I I appreciate
you jumping on. I was I've always wanted to do
something on this. Um. I hope you guys uh enjoyed it.
Just kind of going down memory lane about our jobs
at the Old Course and if you ever have any

(01:20:12):
questions you can send them our way, and by the way,
last thing, if you follow the Instagram page at the
Clubhouse Pod, which is the Clubhouse Pods Instagram account, I'm
gonna post some pictures and I'll do some stories of
some stuff we still have some Memorabiley. I'll post my
my Looper page, which I'll have to cross out a
couple of comments I made about some of the players

(01:20:32):
may or may not not John in California, may not
John in California, and so I scratch scratch out some
of the notes. But I'm gonna I'm gonna post some
of the stuff from from those days. A couple of
pictures we have, Uh, there's a there's a lot of
grainy photos that the cameras back then weren't great. But yeah,
make sure you fall at the Clubhouse Pod on Instagram.
Will I enjoyed yea. The Clubhouse was Shane Bacon as

(01:21:17):
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