October 21, 2020 • 45 mins
In this episode of the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon, Shane is joined by Phil Mickelson! Phil discusses his success and future on the PGA TOUR Champions, the quest for driving distance, and his relationship with Tiger. Phil also talks about the Match part III, featuring himself, Steph Curry, Charles Barkley and Peyton Manning, and the one intangible that's a must have on the PGA TOUR. Follow Shane on Twitter @ShaneBacon and Phil @PhilMickelson.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon, a production of
I Heart Radio. Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon.
I am your host, Shane Bacon. And what do I
always say, We've got a good one this week? I
say it every time Phil Mickelson joins the Clubhouse for
(00:21):
the first time ever. A couple of lefties chatting about
you know, distance and his career in Tiger Woods and
the match three and uh yeah, what he's got planned
not just for two thousand twenty but beyond. And of
course we touched on his Champions Tour successes and how
he's done so well there early on. The guy's scoring
average on the Champions Tour sixty five in two events.
(00:44):
That's gonna get it done. It doesn't matter what the
golf course looks like. If you're averaging six, you're probably
gonna have some success in any tour on this planet. So, uh,
really excited about it. I've been pumped to have phill
on for a while. And uh and big thanks to
Mr Mickelson four making some time. Just a reminder, if
this is the first time you're listening to this particular podcast,
(01:05):
I have another podcast. It's called Get a Grip with
Maxima and Shane Bacon, also part of the I Heart Network.
If you could swing over there and download subscribe. It's
a fun departure from this, a little bit more two
guys talking about specific subjects and a little less of
kind of a Q and A with a particular subject
each and every week. So get a Grip with Maxim
(01:26):
and Shane Bacon. Check that one out if you haven't
listened to it yet. Let's get to our guest, I mean,
welcome to the clubhouse for the first time, Phil Mickelson,
and Phil I gotta start. Give me out of a hundred,
where are you weigh the happiness you felt seeing yourself
as a final Jeopardy question and answer versus the weight
of sadness when nobody got it right? Sad? Sad? Really?
(01:47):
Uh it was. I was optimistic and somewhat excited to
I feel like I finally made it and be on
Jeopardy and then have nobody get it was like a
huge letdown, total shot to my ego and it actually
took a few days to recover. I understand that that's
not easy. You're sitting there, it's final Jeopardy for goodness,
(02:08):
Skes everybody leaves with a bad taste in their mouth.
But I mean, do you get tipped off as somebody like,
does somebody from the Jeopardy team reach out to your
team and go, hey, keep an eye out on this. No. No,
I just happened to see it and and some people
started to, uh put it up on social media when
it came out, and and it thought about, well, I
want to get into your recent play back to back
(02:29):
wins on the Champions Tour. You're scoring average in the
two events. Do you know what it is? By the way,
it's sixty five on the dot. I'd say that's pretty
salty you. And back in January you were talking a
little bit about the Champions Tour and you said, when
I stopped hitting bombs, I'll play the Champions Tour about
I'm hitting some crazy bombs right now. I know you
were obviously joking a little bit with that statement, But
what has changed for you and got you excited to
(02:51):
get out to the Champions Tour compete out there and
obviously have a lot of success. I thought that it
would be I guess, I guess curiosity. It would be
an interesting thing to see, uh kind of how the
courses set up for me and and uh, it was funny.
What really happened was I saw it as an opportunity.
(03:13):
I was curious. I wanted to, um, you know, go
out and play and see some of the guys that
I had played against for many years. I saw a
lot of them, a lot of guys from from the
Championshire at Hillary Watson's funeral and I got to talk
to them and it made me kind of miss um
hanging out with them and seeing them, and they could
(03:33):
not have been more welcoming and inviting and engaging, and
uh it was. It made me so really deard to
be out there the way the way they were. And
I keep in mind my first President's Cup, Tom Lanman
was my partner. I hadn't seen him in a long time.
I saw him at his daughter's wedding, but that was,
you know, a couple of years ago. I haven't seen
(03:55):
seen him very much. Corey paved In, my first partner
in my first Writer Cup match nineteen any five. I
haven't seen him in over a decade. He was my
captain in two thousands ten and these relationships have gone
on for you know, multiple decades. And I missed a
lot of the guys in the see them out there.
It's it's been really fun for me. It's the guys
that I grew up watching as a kid, guys that
(04:17):
I ended up having a lot of great memories and
experiences with. And the style of play. You know, the
courses are not as short as I thought. Um there,
we're playing the back piece on these golfers. The only
difference I thought, Shane was the pin placements were. Instead
of being two and a half cases from the edge
on a little null that repelled the ball everywhere, like
(04:38):
we see on almost every hole on the PJ Tour,
these were five paces from the edge, and if I
happened to get up go after pinning shorts on myself,
I had enough room to get up and down and
and and salvage my part. Very much like the courses
were set up back in the nineties. But now because
everybody's trying to protect par in a way and prevent
guys from going really low. It's not not that it's
(04:59):
how thing are stopping. The pin placements are so tricked up.
I mean, the r and as are tricked up. Kins
you would never think of, you know, three ft from
the edge of a fall off stuff like that that
we don't see on the Champion store. And it allows
me to play more aggressively and play the way I
liked you, rather than always being defensive and feeling like
a good shot of thirty feet. I feel like it's
(05:21):
a little good job I could knock down the stick
and and I allowed me to make me a lot
more make a lot more bodies. Yeah, I mean, it
sounds like you're you're having a lot of fun. Is
it more fun than you thought it would be? Is
it more fun than than even playing PGA tour golf?
Maybe different fun, but it sounds like it's it's been
a little bit more excited than maybe you expected it
to be. It has been a lot more fun than
(05:41):
I thought. It's been a lot more relaxed, yet still competitive.
I love the environment. I actually really enjoy it, and
I think I will play more events. However, the fulfillment
that I get from competing against about players in the
world is still what drives me and motivates me. And
at the age of fifty, what holds a lot of
that most everybody back is their lack of speed, and
my speed has stayed up. I've been able to actually
(06:03):
threat the last few years, so there's no reason why
I couldn't compete on the PGA Tour. But I have
to put it all together. You know, these guys get
the ball extremely long, but they also read it straight.
And if I'm driving the ball, I have to drive
the ball long, but I also have to drive it
straight to be competitive. And if I drive it like that,
the other parts of my game, my short arm play,
my mid iron play, my chipping, my putting, all of
(06:25):
those parts are every bit on par or better than
guys on the regular tour. But but they drive the
ball so well that it sets up the entire golf course.
You know, It's like, imagine how part four into a
par three and you're playing a part three where your
drive is and their three d thirty yards off. So
now you have a hundred forty yard park three from
milit Fairway. I've got a hundred and seventy yard park
(06:47):
three from the rough. That's an insurmountable disadvantage that over
the course of two holes you just can't do. I'm
aware of that. I'm working on trying to fix that,
and I've made a lot of strides. I've made a
lot of sides to my driving, a lot of side
to my boss Wing Andrew get Tonight, had really worked
hard on it, and it's gotten better that it's it's
(07:10):
not there yet, but it's gotten better. And the other
area that I needed to work almost my cutting and
the putting to come around. And I actually think that
that's been a very underrated part of why I've been
successful on my first few champions events. I've put it
really well. Yeah, I mean, you gotta put well to
make this many birdies and shoot these types of scores.
I mean, I've seen the the news clippings, if you will.
It sounds like a very old school thing to say,
but I guess the the online articles about how you've
(07:33):
played and the expectations of what's to come. Shane Ryan
pose the question, should Phil Nicholson go for broke and
become the greatest senior golf forever? I know Bamburger brought
up the idea of you announcing your intentions to, you know,
sweep the major championship season one year on the Senior Tour.
What is your toe in the water on both tour
schedule looking ahead to two thousand twenty one, obviously with
(07:55):
two thousand, twenty one still being up in the air
and what it's gonna look like. But you know, are
you gonna make a schedule all of five champions events
and the rest on tour? Have you looked ahead at
that yet? I have not really looked ahead at the
Championshore schedule next year. I think a lot of it
will depend on how I play the PJ Tour. But again,
my success on the Champion Store has actually been because
(08:15):
of my motivation and drive to work hard and keep
my speed up to compete on the regular tour, and
then when I transition and play a couple events over there,
it's it's allowed me to have a huge advantage distance wise,
uh and attack these golf courses. But um, I don't
I don't intend to do that full time, but I
do intend to play a few of them. I just
(08:36):
don't know which ones. Then it will be pretty uh,
schedule dependent as well as maybe course dependent. It really
is not going to factor in whether it's a major
or not. That's not really a criteria for me because
but I don't mean that I'm not. I I love
the Champions Tour and and the guys out there and
the competition the ability to play and compete, uh the
(09:00):
age like that's really a special thing that other sports
don't have. And I am very appreciative of that. But
the majors on on the Senior Tour, to me, they're
not like majors like the regular Tour. Those are those
are something really special, and that's what I just don't
(09:20):
look at them the same. And so the majors are
not going to influence which events are playing on the
regular tour or not. Yeah, when we've taught bombs, you've
mentioned speed a little bit. I'm gonna quiz you here,
and if you get this right, I really am going
to believe you're like mensa level with the brain. Do
you have any idea what you're driving? Distance was back
in your full first full season on tour. So my
(09:42):
first full season, I believe I was twenty stiff and
distance at two sixty nine. You're right, how do you
know this to sixty nine point two? So let me
throw this out, Tom Perch, I believe led the tour
at to seventy four. That's accurate. I've got daily justin
Ray at the fifteen clubs, send me this symphone. He
has daily at two eight point nine. In three, the
(10:05):
tour average was to fifty nine point eight. Obviously those
numbers have changed. Is this the biggest jump in in
any sport really in terms of how power has taken over,
you know, all aspects of the game, Because I mean,
to sixty nine, what are you hitting to sixty nine? Now? Phil?
So good three world will flight two seventy five. So
(10:28):
it's uh, you know, on fifteen in last week's champions
Event it was to sixty nine front edge two seventy
five hole and I flew to seventy seven. So yeah,
it's just a good three would now, Yeah, it's it's
just it's just so it's just interesting to watch this
evolution happening. And obviously Bryson has changed this conversation. But
I asked you, you know, the gap in terms of
(10:49):
what it's looked like now in two thousand twenty verses
what it looked like in the nineties, and if this
is all sustainable, So I would I would say two things,
you know, back in the nineties, and I'm gonna say
before the pro V one, I granted, I think Callaway
had the first solid pore ball that really went, but
it wasn't until the prov one came out because they
had so many guys playing it that it really changed
(11:12):
because you had the ability to maximize business and control
the ball, control spin. The longest guys back in the nineties,
when they would hit it harder, the ball would spin
more like the driver had spent thirty five hundred four
thousand rpm. It's simply would not go longer. But the
so the short guys had the ball that was basically
(11:34):
optimum for their game, and the longer guys did not.
And the prov one came out and it started to
reduce the spin and allow of the longer guys who
swung it fast to to have the ball that's optimum
for them. And so they leap frodcast the other guys
and you saw the distance go out. Now, I would
argue that, you know, there haven't been like revolutionary changes
(11:58):
like we've had when the prov one came out. Uh
and maybe even the larger headed drivers, we've had evolutionary
changes like small little things here there where all this
ball spinds a little bit more and it's a little
bit easier control in the flights every but not revolutionary
like we had with with in two thousand one October
(12:19):
of two thousand when the Provo one came out, it's
starting two thousand one where everybody was using it. That
was a massive change. And and certainly the larger heads
came out around the same time the big birth that
came out around and that's when the head size has
started to increase and allowed guys to have a lot
more forgiveness than the driver's seat. When we did a
test on the distance increase and we put the ball
(12:42):
and the driver together, we found out those about half
and half. The ball attimmoated about half of it, and
the driver commuted about about half. And they came out
at the same time. And the night you have the
athletes that is getting better and he has the equipment
that's already optimum for him. So I don't think that
in the last you know, fifty years, we've had this
massive change in equipment, but we've had this massive change
(13:04):
in the athletes, and the equipment is optimum for those
guys to maximize their distance. And so we've seen the
best athletes take off. And if you look at the
guys on tour today relative to the nineties when I
came out, the bodies are totally different. When you look
at them. You know, we focus a lot on Bryson here,
but I feel like you were a guy that kind
(13:25):
of led this charge. I mean you were back in
the early two thousand's, you were a guy that was
taking full advantage of distance. I mean you were it
was more important for you to hit it as far
down as you could, and I feel like that was
followed by you know, VJ doing something similar. Obviously, Tiger
was always out there ripping drivers, but I feel like
you were on the forefront of this early on, knowing
(13:45):
that as long as you could hit it as far
as you could hit it down a fair way, even
if you missed it, it was more advantageous for you
to have a wedge or nine iron end then have
a seven iron end. I mean, does Bryson ever give
you a little love for this for kind of like
paving the way. So it really wasn't me because I
remember Jack Wimpers saying the exact same thing. I'd rather
hit a wedge out of the rough seminar from the
(14:06):
fairway like he he had. He had that mentality from
the start, and I grew up and listened to him,
and Tiger was the one that forced me to try
to get long because he was so long and so
straight that to compete with him, uh and be twenty
yards back in the harway and try to compete with
him was was gonna be almost impossible. So I had
to get it up to his speed. And so he
(14:27):
was the one with his fitness that really took it off. However,
I don't believe it was until t p I came
out and Tyler's Performance Institute came out and kind of
around two thousand five or so, where the athletes started
to train all specifics and so I look a lot
of the exercises that Tiger did. He was squatted and
(14:48):
lifting and so forth. It didn't really sprinten the supporting
muscles of the knees box uh, spine and and the
shoulders that would protect them. And I think he's got
a lot of surgery because of the torque that he's
put on in those areas and never actually worked with
smaller muscles. You look at the workouts now and they're
designed to protect the knees with spine and the shoulders
(15:09):
by strengthening all those little stabilizing muscles, and they're they're
smaller movements like they're not you know, squatting five hundred pounds,
they're squatting maybe fifty pounds on an unstable foam platform.
That forces the surrounding muscles around the need to stabilize
then allows us to swing faster. And so when when
two thousand five came and roughly and TPI came out
(15:31):
and started training these guys properly and started showing how
to protect your body when you do swing five, that
made a big difference because I think the education wasn't
out there when Tiger was going through his UH fitness program,
and I think that led to a lot of injuries.
And now you're seeing a lot more prevention of that. Yeah,
(15:51):
I mean, you're a guy that that's that's gotten into
fitness over the last couple of years. What has changed
for you in that world? Because I mean you even
shared a picture on Twitter I saw and it was
the Phil and Oh six wing foot picture versus two
thousand twenty. Phil. Obviously you've slimmed up, you spent a
lot of time working on kind of your body and
your approach to this. What has changed for you and
how invested are you in the ideals around what you're
(16:15):
doing for your body and your fitness at fifty. I
probably didn't have the appreciation at in my thirties for
how important it was to be um, to be healthy, fit,
train properly, eat promptly. And then I ended up getting
soriac arthritis in two thousand ten, and and it changed
everything for me because it forced me to be accountable
(16:37):
for my own health. Forced me to eat right, forced
me to train you know a certain way, UH, forced
me to lose weight and take pressure off my joint source,
forced me to get rid of inflammation in my body,
forced me to try to get my immune system balance.
So all of these things forced me to be accountable
for my own health. That was the change in the
impetus that kind of got me started and UH. And
(16:57):
then I started reading a couple of years ago about
fact and the power of backing and how your body
can rejuvenate and heal and your mute sistem can reset
after a three day pass and all of these things,
and I started to implement that into my routine, which
UH helped me the overall healthier, but it also helped
me lose weight because obviously I'm not eating as much food,
(17:18):
and when I do eat, my stomach a smaller and
and so I ended up losing weight because of that.
But all of those things kind of combined and it
took a little bit of time to put them all together.
Those but it all started back ten years ago when
I was forced to be accountable for my own health.
As you speak on this, and I think it's something
(17:39):
we've seen throughout your career. Is you're a guy that's curious.
You're interested in new ideas, new processes, new things. I
mean this coffee for wellness is a big thing you're
pushing right now. This is something that you've always done.
And I feel like as people get older, especially men
get older, the curiosity almost wanes a little bit, you know,
(18:00):
not as interested in trying new stuff. Why have you
always been this curious? And has that ever gone away?
Or are you always looking for something new? So I've
always been looking for something new. It could be a
better driver, a different club. You know, I've got patents
on multiple clubs from my days when I was with
Titlis now Callaway trying new ideas and so far. So
(18:24):
I've always looked for something, uh potentially that could be
helpful and m now it's been curious about overall health,
like you know what to eat, how to eat of fastening,
working out, what exercises, how to increase speed, you know,
overload underload, all those things. You know, you talked about
what Tom House did. And Tom House was that famous
(18:48):
picture who caught Thank Garen's you know famous song run
ball Us in the bullpen. But he was way ahead
of his time when he asked the question why the
baseball players are pitchers get hurt and tennis players don't
when their arms doing the same motion. And he came
up with the answer that simply, the tennis players don't
let go of the racket, and so they strengthened their
(19:09):
deceleratory muscles, and Pictures didn't. And so he would train
by overloading and underloading and having them throw a weighted
baseball but not let go of the baseball, and all
of a sudden, Pictures started not getting hurt as much.
And he was way ahead of his time, and he
started to apply that to golf with overload underload, which
(19:30):
is was how I was able to teach started to
get a lot of speed in the last couple of years,
was using his methods of training. And so I've always
been curious on on things like that, and it's allowed
me to kind of maintain a higher level of performance
because I'm always trying to stay up on newer, better techniques,
and certainly when my trainer, Sean compan has done that.
But he spent a few years working with Tom House
(19:53):
and training at his facility, and he helped me implement
those overload underload. He's always staying on top of all
the TPI certifications as well as the new techniques, and
he's been a huge part of me preventing injury and
being able to have such a long career. We're gonna
take a quick break and be right back. I want
(20:25):
to change gears for a moment. I got a question
that I really wanted to ask you during the match,
the first one in Vegas with with you and Tiger
at Shadow Creek. I wanted to ask you specifically the
first time you heard the name Tiger Woods. You know,
you guys, you know grew up in the same area,
if you will, of the country, and obviously you were
this elite, unbelievable amateur player. Do you remember the first
(20:48):
time you heard the name or even heard you know,
there's this young kid that's winning everything in Southern California.
I don't remember the first time specifically. I remember when
he won the US Junior that I started to hear
his name a lot more. And obviously when he won
the US Amateur, Uh, he was became a prominent name.
But I don't remember the first time specifically. Um, but
(21:11):
you knew he was going to be good just because
of the fact that he was winning and winning in
such dominant fashion. He just didn't know how good and
and how dominant he would be able to be because
the level of play on the PGA Tour was viewed
as being so high already. How is he going to
be able to come out and really better that by
a significant amount? And yet he was able to do that. Now,
(21:31):
when was the first time you guys played, Like, did
you play in any amateur events, junior events, things like that,
or was it later in your life? No? Five, I
think you're older than he is, so we never really
played against each other growing up. It wasn't until we
were out on tour that that we had a chance
to play together. Yeah. Well, it's just it's it's been
(21:53):
so interesting to watch the two of you guys kind
of go throughout your careers. I mean, you win as
an amateur on the p g A Tour. Obviously he
has that run in these U s g A Championships.
And it was just Phil and Tiger. It was the
Phil and Tiger Show. And uh and you. I was,
I was looking up some stats. You guys have been
paired together thirty seven times. You shot thirty four under
(22:14):
in those rounds over the years. That second best only
to Ernie Els and uh and I and I was
listening to a Dan Patrick interview. You you did, and
it was really the relationship flipped for you guys in
two thousand and sixteen at the Ryder Cup and Tiger
mentioned and that you went out of your way to
be super supportive of him when he was struggling with
this golf game and his chipping. How has that relationship evolved?
(22:34):
I know you could ask this a lot. I know
you could ask about the relationship a lot, But how
has the relationship evolved now to where you guys are
both friends and guys that can work together in and
around these matches that you put on. So I think
it's changed when we started to work together on the
Ryder Cup kind of task forts if you will, to
bring out the best play in the US squad in
(22:54):
the in the Ryder Cup, and then when he was
the assistant captain in two thousand and sixteen, we were
talking quite often about pairings and playing and course set
up in all the little details on how to be
or give the U side the best opportunity to be successful.
And I think that was where we started really working together.
I have known for a long time the value of
(23:16):
him to the game of golf. He brought us from
the back page to the front page of the the
USA today, which was was the paper back to the time,
and he had the ability to really increase the ratings
and increase corporate exposure, increased persons. I mean, I remember Shane.
When I won my first PGA Tour event in the
Tuston Open, the entire person was one million dollars first
(23:39):
places a hundred eighty thousand. Now I was an amateur,
so I didn't get I didn't collect it, but that
was what the post was. And I remember wondering at
that time in my career we would ever have a
million dollar first place check, and I really didn't think
it would happen. And the tire comes along and and
the the growth of the game of golf, the PGA
to the interest in the PGA Tour, the interest in television. Uh,
(24:01):
and all of these things really took off at an
exponential rate and we started to uh shortly they're after
playing compete for a million dollar first place checked every week.
I mean, it's it's been incredible. And so I've known
the value that he's brought to the game. And and
when he struggled a little bit, nobody wanted him to
come back and get back out on top and play
(24:22):
well more than I do, because I, uh, you know,
was intricately involved in in a ton of having along
with what he was able to do for the game,
and I was able to capitalize on it, probably more
so than anybody. Yeah, I mean, and the match has
been an example of this. I mean, you guys both
have your different skill sets. I mean, I would say
you are you know, you're a more entertaining person to
(24:45):
listen to talk when you're on the golf course, you're
always kind of explaining what's going on, and you're talking
with whom ever is walking around. I mean, I remember
even at the match, you looked over at me Tiger
missed putt. I believe on fifteen, and as we were
walking off the green, you looked at me and you said,
I wheeled that one out of the hole. I mean,
you had your eyes real big, and you're all out
sided about it. I mean, you know, you guys use
each other to produce these unbelievable golf events, and we're
(25:07):
gonna have a third one coming up. Did you see
this as a for lack of a better term, franchise.
Was this something you felt like was going to evolve
into what it is with the Barclays and the Bradies
and the patents of the world wanting to be involved,
or at the time, did you simply just see it
as you know, these are the two biggest guys in
golf playing against each other. People are going to pay
attention to it. I think when it first started, I
(25:28):
don't think we have that big long term vasion. It
was just kind of this would be something people would
be interested in. Let's do it. Let's let's create a
little bit of excitement and have some fun doing it
and do something together. It was kind of our first
real partnership and kind of a business sense outside of
the writer. Delp and I thought we we both thought
it would be cool. After last one though, that's when
(25:50):
they we we kind of saw the long term potential like, wow,
these could really be cool and to help the game
of golf that's going to also help other areas. Like
we raised you know which the million for COVID relief,
Well that was that was using the game of golf
and and athletes from other sports and the interest across
the country in this great game and the ability to
social distance while we competed to raise money for a
(26:14):
really good cause, just like we're trying to raise money
for a really good cause here with social justice and
and so we're we're starting to see the vision for
for what this, what this can be and and and
it's exciting to to create one or two events that
kind of showcase this great game of golf because we're
in a growth spurt right now because it's the only
(26:36):
thing you can do during COVID to really stay safe,
you know, sports wise, and you go out on the
golf course, you get social distance, you can play safely
and and have fun in a sports environment. And so
our golf courses are really kind of shown a lot
more um, a lot more participation in play and this
(26:57):
these matches kind of support that kind support the interest,
and I'm hoping that we can keep these players playing
and kind of grow the participation in the in the sport,
which we haven't had in a long time. So you
get Barkley as your partner now, I mean, I love
Charles Barkley. I'm not sure there's many people on the
planet that don't love the guy. But have you talked
(27:20):
to him? Have you have you seen the swing lately?
I mean, are you nervous to have to hit some
of these shots after wherever the t shot ends up
for Charles? So certainly I'm nervous because we're going to
play kind of a modified alternate shot. Looks like we
did the back nine where we're both gonna hit a
tea shot and then we're gonna to play alternate from there.
So if he it's a bad tea shot and we
(27:40):
have to use mine, we're gonna use his next shot.
So yeah, I'm concerned. However, I will point out when
I first played with Charles and he was a member
of Phoenix Suns off of the nineties, Charles Barkley could
play really the seventies almost every round. He had no
hitching his swing. He hit the ball, play long. He
was a normal He was a normal golfer, and uh
shot between seventy four seventy five two every time we
(28:05):
played and never had a hitch in this wing, had
no problems swinning the golf club. So, um, the ability
is in there. I just don't know if we'll get
it out of me. I'm excited to watch. I mean,
he was trash talking you guys the first match, saying
he could come down there and compete. So now he's
actually gonna get the chance, and I think people are pumped,
you know. I I've talked with with Max Homer on
(28:26):
the other podcast I do about this. This in particular accomplishment.
It was when Steph Curry shot that opening around seven
one at the Safe Way back in two thousand and eighteen.
I feel like it's one of the more underrated athletic
achievements and people don't talk about it much. An NBA
player shooting around of seventy one in professional golf. Have
you played golf with Steph Curry? Do you know how
(28:47):
good he is? Is he the best non professional golfer
athlete that you've seen out there over the last you know,
twenty thirty years. So of all those celebrities and all
the the athletes that I've played with, leave Tony Romo
and Steph Furry are the two best that I've played with.
They're clearly plus handicaps. Uh, they're on par with a
(29:07):
like kind of mini tour level professional golfer. And they
both have kind of a natural instinct for for the game.
Know how to kind of read the nuances of the
golf of professional golfer is like reading the lie, how's
the ball going to come out? Distance control, being able
to shape shots, being able to limit a limitated half
the golf course, and both of those games can do
(29:27):
that pretty effectively. And uh, you know, stuff is gonna
be tough. I mean, he's he's certainly not Tiger Wood.
So Peyton is is downgrading his partner and stuff. You know,
Bartley and Brady, I don't know, it's kind of it's
kind of like a lateral move. I don't know. And
uh that I probably shouldn't say because Brady actually he
(29:49):
can really play like I played with him when he
he lights it up and he's a great potter, and
and he didn't have a chance to practice much for
match too, and wasn't at his best, but uh, I
feel like I feel like Charles and I are going
to sunnily dominate this match. We're gonna talk smack the
entire way and be laughing and giggling the whole tum.
(30:09):
I need you to ask Charles at some point to uh,
to to get have his thoughts on a lie and
just see what he says and what do you think
this is gonna jump? What do you feel like here
is this? What's what's going to happen with this lie? Yeah?
I don't think we're We're not there yet. Okay, Okay,
ch it's probably probably fair. You know, uh, Phil, you've
been out on tour forever. You've seen all of it.
(30:29):
You know, You've you've seen the great young players that
didn't make it, You've seen the no name players that
have won multiple major championships. Of all the things out there,
of all of the parts of golf mentally, physically, everything,
what has been the one intangible that you feel like
pro golfers have to have to be successful on the
PGA Tour. So the one thing that I've the one
(30:52):
is we're gonna try to point down to one which
I think there are many, But the biggest difference between
guys that get the most out of their talent and
guys that don't is going to be their ability to
control their thoughts. So what happens to a lot of
guys have been things start going bad and around, they
start to see where they don't want the ball to go,
(31:14):
and they start hitting it there, and they don't have
the ability to read take control of their thoughts and
focus on what they want to do. So that that
has led to, you know, a lot of final round collapses.
That has led to a lot of guys turning a
round of uh see seventy two into seventies seventy seven.
(31:37):
It might be on Thursday or Friday, but knock them
right out of the tournament. You'll see it. It's easier
to point out, you know, find a round of the major.
But um, that's the one thing that I think the
great players have the ability to do is take control
of their thoughts and you focus on what it is
they want to do, rather than continue to let thoughts
(31:58):
of what they don't want to have happened into their minds.
I mean, can you see this happening, Phil? Can you
see a guy either you're playing with them, you're watching
them on TV, whatever, whatever you the case might be.
Can you see the indecision and the uncomfortable nous and
maybe the meltdown pending from players that that aren't right
(32:19):
there where they need to be in terms of the
confidence in their ability to just slow everything down. Well,
it's going to happen to all of us. We're all
going to go through these rough patches, right, But it's
the ability to turn it around, retake control of your thoughts,
start to refocus on what you want to have happen,
and start to execute those those swings. Those are the
(32:39):
guys that ultimately win and are tough to beat down
the stretch. There's a lot of guys that have h
struggled with with that, and so they win. They still
win tournaments when things are clicking and everything is going
great and they've got uh and and they're firing all
cylinders and all they're seeing is great shop and that's
all they're hitting. They get the good gree of getting
(33:00):
the zone and they end up taking out to victory.
But the guys like Tiger that are tough when they
don't might not have their best off and they hit
a few bad shots, his ability to re take control
of his thoughts and starts to refocus on what he wants.
That's what separates the really tough, the petitors, the great champions,
the guys that have high closing rates when leading up
(33:21):
for fifty four holes, and guys that don't. All right,
I got some quick fire ones that I'm gonna let
you go first. One is pretty easy. What's the best
Phil Nicholson Halloween costume You've ever worn? So it's been
a while since I've been uh Halloween costume? Um, I
would say in the nineties six Phoenix Open, I was
(33:43):
one of the uh I was in the band. I
was in a band as a member of one of
the band the famous bands at the time. What I
can't even remember the name of it, but uh no,
I don't know. It's like there was a construction work earlier,
was a was the sailor face paint Stewart was on
(34:04):
there or something like that. That's that's abandoned thing that
what are you are you? Musically? Are you? Are you
musically talented? Filled? You? Can you play anything? No? Yeah? No,
now let left left. He is never good with the guitar.
It's it's it's too hard. Who was the best Ryder
Cup teammate you've ever had? So I don't want to
single anybody out because I've had I've been on so
(34:26):
many teams. I don't want to single anybody out. I've
had some great partners over the years. Is if you
had a mulligan you could use on a shot in
your career, what would the mulligan be? So it would
be the eight teen toll at Wingfoot in the US
Open in two thousand six, But it would not be
the drive. It would be the second shot, because the
second shot was not that hard. I had a very tight,
(34:48):
a tight hard pan lie. There was nothing wrong with it.
All I had to do with it a cut three
iron around a tree and get it up by the green.
And I hit it a yard or two too far
to the left and it caught the tree limb. And
then the ball shot left. If I missed that limb
and get the ball started a little further right, the
(35:08):
ball's going up by the green, if not on the green,
and I'm going to have a chance a very easy
up and down to win the ball. Family. What's the
highest mph has you ever hit on a radar gun?
So we did not have Uh, we did not have
trapped man and and uh these squads and all the
launch monitors my entire career and so early in my prime,
(35:29):
in my twenties and thirties, I did not have that information.
But at last year's Masters, I was at one point
something uh, and that was as fast as I can
remember seeing the club. What's the fastest you ever threw
a baseball? Did you ever hit anything in like the eighties?
I'm gonna go with nine. I don't I don't know.
(35:53):
I mean, I I don't know. Um, you know, I
I don't know. I was not going to blow anybody
away with my fostball, but I had I had a
good splitter. That's good. What was the best Champions dinner
meal that that has ever been served? And you've been
a part of Huh, that's uh. I actually thought. I
(36:15):
think it was that Tregrera had some Argentinian meats that
was phenomenal. And I realized that all of the older
guys they don't want to steak, so when I came
in with like a lobster ravioli, They're like, they just
give me a steak. So they didn't even eat lobster
ravioli that I had made. They had to make a
stake up. So I started just doing that in the
(36:37):
next time or two that I want. So that that's
your suggestion that next time somebody wins a master's just
steak potatoes. Let's make it as easy as possible, like
nice red wine. Yeah, yeah, because all the old guys
want that. Do you have a particular Phil flop shot
that comes to mind as the best one? I mean,
you know, yeah, there's there's plenty to pick from, I'm sure,
(36:59):
but there is there one you hit that you always
kind of go back to, is like that was the toughest,
best one I pulled off. So this is one I've
seen a lot on social media, which was the A
ten pull at TCC Boston when I was down by
the hazard and I hit one. And I don't think
I've ever hit one more vertical or as high as
that one. That one was ridiculous. It was almost like
a jumper, like the ball jumped straight up rather than
(37:20):
like the pure flop shot where it comes out dead. Um,
but that one was. That one was ridiculous. I actually
remember one on seven at Valld Hall of Going t
J Championship in that I hit that was about as
ridiculous as one and as I've ever hit also, Um,
(37:43):
but that one at Boston was it was a really
good one. Yeah. I think I was doing PGA Tour
live for that, and I believe we replayed at about
eighty seven times. And I think we didn't show live
golf for about half an hour after you hit that shot.
It was like, let's just keep showing different angles. This
was the is gonna be the best thing that comes
out of today. That's uh, that's how impressive that was.
(38:03):
So yes, I remember that one vividly and sometimes when
I close my eyes it pops up. That's how often
we played it. Um, what is your dream practice round
grouping for for your game? It's a Wednesday. You get
to throw three guys in there that you always love
playing with. And this isn't a single anybody out Just
who are the three people you throw in? I really
really enjoy um playing with Keegan Bradley and Brendan Steel,
(38:27):
like those two guys like I laugh and I've got
some good matches with John rom and Xander, But you know, Kegan,
Keegan makes me laugh, uh about as much as anybody,
I think it's just quirkiness. I'm not even sure what
to say. But every time I'm around him, like, I
laugh and giggle, and I just I can't. I can't
(38:52):
play without him in the group because it's really fun
with him. Yeah, all right, Well, the last thing I'll do,
and I'm gonna let you go. I did want to
ask about your TV appearance at the p g A.
I was messaging with you about it a little bit,
and just I thought you, obviously as everybody did. I
thought you were really impressive there and you seemed really comfortable.
Was it tougher than you thought it'd be? Did you?
Would you have a better appreciation for the booth now
(39:14):
and is this something that at some point in your
career you are interested in maybe getting into. I think
that I was surprised at the feedback. I surprised how
positive the feedback was because I was just kind of
articulating what I saw, and so it came. I thought
it came very easy in the sense that I was just,
you know, saying what I saw, So I didn't think
that it was that insightful per se. But I guess
(39:37):
that I just see things that others don't like. The
grain of the grass, and then how is the ball
going to react? And if the ball if the grass
is wet, you know, the ball is gonna skid. I
remember a shot that Jimmy Dunn, who's one of my
favorite people, hit and number three at Augusta, and he
hit the ball down left and again was over to
the left and he was going to try to hit
a flop shot and it just rained in the grass
(39:58):
was w and I said, Jimmy, the rye grass is wet. Okay.
Normally when it's dry, it grabs the ball. It's sticky.
I said, but it's wet today. Why don't you just
bump it into the hill. It's gonna skip right through that, uh,
right up the hill. And he said, really okay. Well
he gave it a try. The ball skipp all up
the hill and it went in the hole for an
evil too. And I just thought, that's like it's little
(40:23):
nuances like that chain that that are just kind of
like second nature. Like I don't understand how that's not
common knowledge, but it just isn't. And so when I
articulate that, I don't feel like I'm saying anything insightful,
But to a lot of people that haven't played golf professionally.
I haven't played their whole life and spent so many
hours practicing like I have. It might not be common
(40:44):
knowledge to them, and so it was something I enjoyed doing. However,
competing and playing golf for living is what I really
enjoy and what challenges in me and and keeps me
motivated and working hard. So I'm not I'm not sure
that I'm ready to do that yet or that I
really want to. Yeah, I mean I feel like there's
no replacement for someone that is coming right off the
(41:05):
golf course into the booth. You know, anytime you have
a player that played that golf course and has a
chance to react to what they've already seen with their
own skills, right, I mean, you were on the golf course,
you know what the place was playing like. That's really
hard to replace in terms of insight, and that was
something you brought to the broadcast. And I think that
is a is a huge advantage if if that was
(41:26):
something that you could routinely throw in, I mean, if
you could just randomly have players come in after if
they'd be willing to do it, it would give a
different insight, you know, from somebody that that is observing
from a booth and and hasn't had a chance to
go out and play that golf course in that day's conditions.
You know what I'm saying, You're exactly right. I mean,
that's a huge insight into sharing with the viewer what
(41:48):
is what, what what is happening, what how the course
is playing. Uh, but I don't think you really need
to um to be having to be on the golf
course to be able to have that insight. I mean,
it's you can use simple math by just looking at
a Green's book and say, look at the greens pitch
at three point five, they're rolling thirteen. Their ball won't
(42:08):
stay there, so he can't you know, the ball it's
gonna run tensey by he's you know, this is the
best he can do is over here. If he misses
it righty, he's not gonna be able to get open down.
I mean that that's just simple math if you just
kind of look at the Green's book and you know
you're able to read those numbers um or see the
(42:30):
rough or or just I don't see. I don't feel
like you have to play the golf course to be
able to articulate that if you have that information there
and you know you know what you're looking at totally. Well, Phil,
I appreciate it. Thanks so much for taking the time.
Anything uh new for you upcoming? I mean, you know,
you you got the social media world a buzz all
the time now with what you're doing there, and you're
(42:51):
always rolling out new videos. Anything new on the horizon
in two thousand, twenty or twenty one for Phil Nicholson,
Uh not, not really other than things we've discussed, you know,
trying to play, compete, trying to get uh get ready
for the masses and and you know, compete in the
(43:12):
match and and get my get my man, Sir Charles,
get his game sharp and ready and competitive. Uh, I
mean at least, but I'm having fun. I mean that's
the big thing is I'm having fun and I'm enjoying it.
And I don't know what the next chapters are going
to bring. I don't know if it's gonna be commentating,
if it's gonna if I'm gonna be able to stay
competitive or be some PINDI on the TJ Tour or
(43:32):
the Champions Tour or what, or if I'm gonna do
you know, some for social media or because I don't
really know what the next chapters. I just thought I'm
having found at all the things I'm doing well. I
appreciate the time you guys. You guys have a good drive,
and I'll talk to you soon. Thanks Jane. We're gonna
take a quick break and be right back. A big,
(44:01):
big thanks to Phil Nicholson for all that time, forty minutes.
I couldn't ask for more, and I was. I was
very very happy with him jumping on and joining. You know,
I got a tick on another Hall of Famer on
the podcast had been a while and uh, and I
was happy to throw another name on there. It's like
a peg board, you know, where the top one hundred
courses you play. Uh, and you know Gary Player has
been on, trying to think, is that Phil? It might
(44:24):
be it. That's Juli Ankster, Juliankster hall of Famer, maybe
Zinger Curtis. I'm actually a few more than maybe I thought.
But that doesn't matter to anybody except for myself, So
big thanks to Phil for doing that. If you like
the show, if you're a fan of the podcast, tell
your friends, Tell people you don't like and uh and
rate and review the show. It helps out, you know,
getting the word out. It helps out people finding the podcast,
(44:46):
so rate and review it. It takes thirty seconds, sixty seconds.
That is all. Uh, and yeah, we'll be back next week.
I'm recording a podcast this week for next week, so
I know there'll be one with another exciting guest who
actually has had a relationship over the years with Phil Nicholson.
So that'll be next week. You guys, enjoy the weekend.
Whether it's getting good on the West coast, I'm assuming
it's cooling off up north, but stay warm, stay safe,
(45:08):
and hopefully you get out and play a little golf.
The clubhouse was Shane Bacon as a production of I
Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
(45:29):
the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon, a production of
I Heart Radio. Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon.
I am your host, Shane Bacon. And what do I
always say, We've got a good one this week? I
say it every time Phil Mickelson joins the Clubhouse for
(00:21):
the first time ever. A couple of lefties chatting about
you know, distance and his career in Tiger Woods and
the match three and uh yeah, what he's got planned
not just for two thousand twenty but beyond. And of
course we touched on his Champions Tour successes and how
he's done so well there early on. The guy's scoring
average on the Champions Tour sixty five in two events.
(00:44):
That's gonna get it done. It doesn't matter what the
golf course looks like. If you're averaging six, you're probably
gonna have some success in any tour on this planet. So, uh,
really excited about it. I've been pumped to have phill
on for a while. And uh and big thanks to
Mr Mickelson four making some time. Just a reminder, if
this is the first time you're listening to this particular podcast,
(01:05):
I have another podcast. It's called Get a Grip with
Maxima and Shane Bacon, also part of the I Heart Network.
If you could swing over there and download subscribe. It's
a fun departure from this, a little bit more two
guys talking about specific subjects and a little less of
kind of a Q and A with a particular subject
each and every week. So get a Grip with Maxim
(01:26):
and Shane Bacon. Check that one out if you haven't
listened to it yet. Let's get to our guest, I mean,
welcome to the clubhouse for the first time, Phil Mickelson,
and Phil I gotta start. Give me out of a hundred,
where are you weigh the happiness you felt seeing yourself
as a final Jeopardy question and answer versus the weight
of sadness when nobody got it right? Sad? Sad? Really?
(01:47):
Uh it was. I was optimistic and somewhat excited to
I feel like I finally made it and be on
Jeopardy and then have nobody get it was like a
huge letdown, total shot to my ego and it actually
took a few days to recover. I understand that that's
not easy. You're sitting there, it's final Jeopardy for goodness,
(02:08):
Skes everybody leaves with a bad taste in their mouth.
But I mean, do you get tipped off as somebody like,
does somebody from the Jeopardy team reach out to your
team and go, hey, keep an eye out on this. No. No,
I just happened to see it and and some people
started to, uh put it up on social media when
it came out, and and it thought about, well, I
want to get into your recent play back to back
(02:29):
wins on the Champions Tour. You're scoring average in the
two events. Do you know what it is? By the way,
it's sixty five on the dot. I'd say that's pretty
salty you. And back in January you were talking a
little bit about the Champions Tour and you said, when
I stopped hitting bombs, I'll play the Champions Tour about
I'm hitting some crazy bombs right now. I know you
were obviously joking a little bit with that statement, But
what has changed for you and got you excited to
(02:51):
get out to the Champions Tour compete out there and
obviously have a lot of success. I thought that it
would be I guess, I guess curiosity. It would be
an interesting thing to see, uh kind of how the
courses set up for me and and uh, it was funny.
What really happened was I saw it as an opportunity.
(03:13):
I was curious. I wanted to, um, you know, go
out and play and see some of the guys that
I had played against for many years. I saw a
lot of them, a lot of guys from from the
Championshire at Hillary Watson's funeral and I got to talk
to them and it made me kind of miss um
hanging out with them and seeing them, and they could
(03:33):
not have been more welcoming and inviting and engaging, and
uh it was. It made me so really deard to
be out there the way the way they were. And
I keep in mind my first President's Cup, Tom Lanman
was my partner. I hadn't seen him in a long time.
I saw him at his daughter's wedding, but that was,
you know, a couple of years ago. I haven't seen
(03:55):
seen him very much. Corey paved In, my first partner
in my first Writer Cup match nineteen any five. I
haven't seen him in over a decade. He was my
captain in two thousands ten and these relationships have gone
on for you know, multiple decades. And I missed a
lot of the guys in the see them out there.
It's it's been really fun for me. It's the guys
that I grew up watching as a kid, guys that
(04:17):
I ended up having a lot of great memories and
experiences with. And the style of play. You know, the
courses are not as short as I thought. Um there,
we're playing the back piece on these golfers. The only
difference I thought, Shane was the pin placements were. Instead
of being two and a half cases from the edge
on a little null that repelled the ball everywhere, like
(04:38):
we see on almost every hole on the PJ Tour,
these were five paces from the edge, and if I
happened to get up go after pinning shorts on myself,
I had enough room to get up and down and
and and salvage my part. Very much like the courses
were set up back in the nineties. But now because
everybody's trying to protect par in a way and prevent
guys from going really low. It's not not that it's
(04:59):
how thing are stopping. The pin placements are so tricked up.
I mean, the r and as are tricked up. Kins
you would never think of, you know, three ft from
the edge of a fall off stuff like that that
we don't see on the Champion store. And it allows
me to play more aggressively and play the way I
liked you, rather than always being defensive and feeling like
a good shot of thirty feet. I feel like it's
(05:21):
a little good job I could knock down the stick
and and I allowed me to make me a lot
more make a lot more bodies. Yeah, I mean, it
sounds like you're you're having a lot of fun. Is
it more fun than you thought it would be? Is
it more fun than than even playing PGA tour golf?
Maybe different fun, but it sounds like it's it's been
a little bit more excited than maybe you expected it
to be. It has been a lot more fun than
(05:41):
I thought. It's been a lot more relaxed, yet still competitive.
I love the environment. I actually really enjoy it, and
I think I will play more events. However, the fulfillment
that I get from competing against about players in the
world is still what drives me and motivates me. And
at the age of fifty, what holds a lot of
that most everybody back is their lack of speed, and
my speed has stayed up. I've been able to actually
(06:03):
threat the last few years, so there's no reason why
I couldn't compete on the PGA Tour. But I have
to put it all together. You know, these guys get
the ball extremely long, but they also read it straight.
And if I'm driving the ball, I have to drive
the ball long, but I also have to drive it
straight to be competitive. And if I drive it like that,
the other parts of my game, my short arm play,
my mid iron play, my chipping, my putting, all of
(06:25):
those parts are every bit on par or better than
guys on the regular tour. But but they drive the
ball so well that it sets up the entire golf course.
You know, It's like, imagine how part four into a
par three and you're playing a part three where your
drive is and their three d thirty yards off. So
now you have a hundred forty yard park three from
milit Fairway. I've got a hundred and seventy yard park
(06:47):
three from the rough. That's an insurmountable disadvantage that over
the course of two holes you just can't do. I'm
aware of that. I'm working on trying to fix that,
and I've made a lot of strides. I've made a
lot of sides to my driving, a lot of side
to my boss Wing Andrew get Tonight, had really worked
hard on it, and it's gotten better that it's it's
(07:10):
not there yet, but it's gotten better. And the other
area that I needed to work almost my cutting and
the putting to come around. And I actually think that
that's been a very underrated part of why I've been
successful on my first few champions events. I've put it
really well. Yeah, I mean, you gotta put well to
make this many birdies and shoot these types of scores.
I mean, I've seen the the news clippings, if you will.
It sounds like a very old school thing to say,
but I guess the the online articles about how you've
(07:33):
played and the expectations of what's to come. Shane Ryan
pose the question, should Phil Nicholson go for broke and
become the greatest senior golf forever? I know Bamburger brought
up the idea of you announcing your intentions to, you know,
sweep the major championship season one year on the Senior Tour.
What is your toe in the water on both tour
schedule looking ahead to two thousand twenty one, obviously with
(07:55):
two thousand, twenty one still being up in the air
and what it's gonna look like. But you know, are
you gonna make a schedule all of five champions events
and the rest on tour? Have you looked ahead at
that yet? I have not really looked ahead at the
Championshore schedule next year. I think a lot of it
will depend on how I play the PJ Tour. But again,
my success on the Champion Store has actually been because
(08:15):
of my motivation and drive to work hard and keep
my speed up to compete on the regular tour, and
then when I transition and play a couple events over there,
it's it's allowed me to have a huge advantage distance wise,
uh and attack these golf courses. But um, I don't
I don't intend to do that full time, but I
do intend to play a few of them. I just
(08:36):
don't know which ones. Then it will be pretty uh,
schedule dependent as well as maybe course dependent. It really
is not going to factor in whether it's a major
or not. That's not really a criteria for me because
but I don't mean that I'm not. I I love
the Champions Tour and and the guys out there and
the competition the ability to play and compete, uh the
(09:00):
age like that's really a special thing that other sports
don't have. And I am very appreciative of that. But
the majors on on the Senior Tour, to me, they're
not like majors like the regular Tour. Those are those
are something really special, and that's what I just don't
(09:20):
look at them the same. And so the majors are
not going to influence which events are playing on the
regular tour or not. Yeah, when we've taught bombs, you've
mentioned speed a little bit. I'm gonna quiz you here,
and if you get this right, I really am going
to believe you're like mensa level with the brain. Do
you have any idea what you're driving? Distance was back
in your full first full season on tour. So my
(09:42):
first full season, I believe I was twenty stiff and
distance at two sixty nine. You're right, how do you
know this to sixty nine point two? So let me
throw this out, Tom Perch, I believe led the tour
at to seventy four. That's accurate. I've got daily justin
Ray at the fifteen clubs, send me this symphone. He
has daily at two eight point nine. In three, the
(10:05):
tour average was to fifty nine point eight. Obviously those
numbers have changed. Is this the biggest jump in in
any sport really in terms of how power has taken over,
you know, all aspects of the game, Because I mean,
to sixty nine, what are you hitting to sixty nine? Now? Phil?
So good three world will flight two seventy five. So
(10:28):
it's uh, you know, on fifteen in last week's champions
Event it was to sixty nine front edge two seventy
five hole and I flew to seventy seven. So yeah,
it's just a good three would now, Yeah, it's it's
just it's just so it's just interesting to watch this
evolution happening. And obviously Bryson has changed this conversation. But
I asked you, you know, the gap in terms of
(10:49):
what it's looked like now in two thousand twenty verses
what it looked like in the nineties, and if this
is all sustainable, So I would I would say two things,
you know, back in the nineties, and I'm gonna say
before the pro V one, I granted, I think Callaway
had the first solid pore ball that really went, but
it wasn't until the prov one came out because they
had so many guys playing it that it really changed
(11:12):
because you had the ability to maximize business and control
the ball, control spin. The longest guys back in the nineties,
when they would hit it harder, the ball would spin
more like the driver had spent thirty five hundred four
thousand rpm. It's simply would not go longer. But the
so the short guys had the ball that was basically
(11:34):
optimum for their game, and the longer guys did not.
And the prov one came out and it started to
reduce the spin and allow of the longer guys who
swung it fast to to have the ball that's optimum
for them. And so they leap frodcast the other guys
and you saw the distance go out. Now, I would
argue that, you know, there haven't been like revolutionary changes
(11:58):
like we've had when the prov one came out. Uh
and maybe even the larger headed drivers, we've had evolutionary
changes like small little things here there where all this
ball spinds a little bit more and it's a little
bit easier control in the flights every but not revolutionary
like we had with with in two thousand one October
(12:19):
of two thousand when the Provo one came out, it's
starting two thousand one where everybody was using it. That
was a massive change. And and certainly the larger heads
came out around the same time the big birth that
came out around and that's when the head size has
started to increase and allowed guys to have a lot
more forgiveness than the driver's seat. When we did a
test on the distance increase and we put the ball
(12:42):
and the driver together, we found out those about half
and half. The ball attimmoated about half of it, and
the driver commuted about about half. And they came out
at the same time. And the night you have the
athletes that is getting better and he has the equipment
that's already optimum for him. So I don't think that
in the last you know, fifty years, we've had this
massive change in equipment, but we've had this massive change
(13:04):
in the athletes, and the equipment is optimum for those
guys to maximize their distance. And so we've seen the
best athletes take off. And if you look at the
guys on tour today relative to the nineties when I
came out, the bodies are totally different. When you look
at them. You know, we focus a lot on Bryson here,
but I feel like you were a guy that kind
(13:25):
of led this charge. I mean you were back in
the early two thousand's, you were a guy that was
taking full advantage of distance. I mean you were it
was more important for you to hit it as far
down as you could, and I feel like that was
followed by you know, VJ doing something similar. Obviously, Tiger
was always out there ripping drivers, but I feel like
you were on the forefront of this early on, knowing
(13:45):
that as long as you could hit it as far
as you could hit it down a fair way, even
if you missed it, it was more advantageous for you
to have a wedge or nine iron end then have
a seven iron end. I mean, does Bryson ever give
you a little love for this for kind of like
paving the way. So it really wasn't me because I
remember Jack Wimpers saying the exact same thing. I'd rather
hit a wedge out of the rough seminar from the
(14:06):
fairway like he he had. He had that mentality from
the start, and I grew up and listened to him,
and Tiger was the one that forced me to try
to get long because he was so long and so
straight that to compete with him, uh and be twenty
yards back in the harway and try to compete with
him was was gonna be almost impossible. So I had
to get it up to his speed. And so he
(14:27):
was the one with his fitness that really took it off. However,
I don't believe it was until t p I came
out and Tyler's Performance Institute came out and kind of
around two thousand five or so, where the athletes started
to train all specifics and so I look a lot
of the exercises that Tiger did. He was squatted and
(14:48):
lifting and so forth. It didn't really sprinten the supporting
muscles of the knees box uh, spine and and the
shoulders that would protect them. And I think he's got
a lot of surgery because of the torque that he's
put on in those areas and never actually worked with
smaller muscles. You look at the workouts now and they're
designed to protect the knees with spine and the shoulders
(15:09):
by strengthening all those little stabilizing muscles, and they're they're
smaller movements like they're not you know, squatting five hundred pounds,
they're squatting maybe fifty pounds on an unstable foam platform.
That forces the surrounding muscles around the need to stabilize
then allows us to swing faster. And so when when
two thousand five came and roughly and TPI came out
(15:31):
and started training these guys properly and started showing how
to protect your body when you do swing five, that
made a big difference because I think the education wasn't
out there when Tiger was going through his UH fitness program,
and I think that led to a lot of injuries.
And now you're seeing a lot more prevention of that. Yeah,
(15:51):
I mean, you're a guy that that's that's gotten into
fitness over the last couple of years. What has changed
for you in that world? Because I mean you even
shared a picture on Twitter I saw and it was
the Phil and Oh six wing foot picture versus two
thousand twenty. Phil. Obviously you've slimmed up, you spent a
lot of time working on kind of your body and
your approach to this. What has changed for you and
how invested are you in the ideals around what you're
(16:15):
doing for your body and your fitness at fifty. I
probably didn't have the appreciation at in my thirties for
how important it was to be um, to be healthy, fit,
train properly, eat promptly. And then I ended up getting
soriac arthritis in two thousand ten, and and it changed
everything for me because it forced me to be accountable
(16:37):
for my own health. Forced me to eat right, forced
me to train you know a certain way, UH, forced
me to lose weight and take pressure off my joint source,
forced me to get rid of inflammation in my body,
forced me to try to get my immune system balance.
So all of these things forced me to be accountable
for my own health. That was the change in the
impetus that kind of got me started and UH. And
(16:57):
then I started reading a couple of years ago about
fact and the power of backing and how your body
can rejuvenate and heal and your mute sistem can reset
after a three day pass and all of these things,
and I started to implement that into my routine, which
UH helped me the overall healthier, but it also helped
me lose weight because obviously I'm not eating as much food,
(17:18):
and when I do eat, my stomach a smaller and
and so I ended up losing weight because of that.
But all of those things kind of combined and it
took a little bit of time to put them all together.
Those but it all started back ten years ago when
I was forced to be accountable for my own health.
As you speak on this, and I think it's something
(17:39):
we've seen throughout your career. Is you're a guy that's curious.
You're interested in new ideas, new processes, new things. I
mean this coffee for wellness is a big thing you're
pushing right now. This is something that you've always done.
And I feel like as people get older, especially men
get older, the curiosity almost wanes a little bit, you know,
(18:00):
not as interested in trying new stuff. Why have you
always been this curious? And has that ever gone away?
Or are you always looking for something new? So I've
always been looking for something new. It could be a
better driver, a different club. You know, I've got patents
on multiple clubs from my days when I was with
Titlis now Callaway trying new ideas and so far. So
(18:24):
I've always looked for something, uh potentially that could be
helpful and m now it's been curious about overall health,
like you know what to eat, how to eat of fastening,
working out, what exercises, how to increase speed, you know,
overload underload, all those things. You know, you talked about
what Tom House did. And Tom House was that famous
(18:48):
picture who caught Thank Garen's you know famous song run
ball Us in the bullpen. But he was way ahead
of his time when he asked the question why the
baseball players are pitchers get hurt and tennis players don't
when their arms doing the same motion. And he came
up with the answer that simply, the tennis players don't
let go of the racket, and so they strengthened their
(19:09):
deceleratory muscles, and Pictures didn't. And so he would train
by overloading and underloading and having them throw a weighted
baseball but not let go of the baseball, and all
of a sudden, Pictures started not getting hurt as much.
And he was way ahead of his time, and he
started to apply that to golf with overload underload, which
(19:30):
is was how I was able to teach started to
get a lot of speed in the last couple of years,
was using his methods of training. And so I've always
been curious on on things like that, and it's allowed
me to kind of maintain a higher level of performance
because I'm always trying to stay up on newer, better techniques,
and certainly when my trainer, Sean compan has done that.
But he spent a few years working with Tom House
(19:53):
and training at his facility, and he helped me implement
those overload underload. He's always staying on top of all
the TPI certifications as well as the new techniques, and
he's been a huge part of me preventing injury and
being able to have such a long career. We're gonna
take a quick break and be right back. I want
(20:25):
to change gears for a moment. I got a question
that I really wanted to ask you during the match,
the first one in Vegas with with you and Tiger
at Shadow Creek. I wanted to ask you specifically the
first time you heard the name Tiger Woods. You know,
you guys, you know grew up in the same area,
if you will, of the country, and obviously you were
this elite, unbelievable amateur player. Do you remember the first
(20:48):
time you heard the name or even heard you know,
there's this young kid that's winning everything in Southern California.
I don't remember the first time specifically. I remember when
he won the US Junior that I started to hear
his name a lot more. And obviously when he won
the US Amateur, Uh, he was became a prominent name.
But I don't remember the first time specifically. Um, but
(21:11):
you knew he was going to be good just because
of the fact that he was winning and winning in
such dominant fashion. He just didn't know how good and
and how dominant he would be able to be because
the level of play on the PGA Tour was viewed
as being so high already. How is he going to
be able to come out and really better that by
a significant amount? And yet he was able to do that. Now,
(21:31):
when was the first time you guys played, Like, did
you play in any amateur events, junior events, things like that,
or was it later in your life? No? Five, I
think you're older than he is, so we never really
played against each other growing up. It wasn't until we
were out on tour that that we had a chance
to play together. Yeah. Well, it's just it's it's been
(21:53):
so interesting to watch the two of you guys kind
of go throughout your careers. I mean, you win as
an amateur on the p g A Tour. Obviously he
has that run in these U s g A Championships.
And it was just Phil and Tiger. It was the
Phil and Tiger Show. And uh and you. I was,
I was looking up some stats. You guys have been
paired together thirty seven times. You shot thirty four under
(22:14):
in those rounds over the years. That second best only
to Ernie Els and uh and I and I was
listening to a Dan Patrick interview. You you did, and
it was really the relationship flipped for you guys in
two thousand and sixteen at the Ryder Cup and Tiger
mentioned and that you went out of your way to
be super supportive of him when he was struggling with
this golf game and his chipping. How has that relationship evolved?
(22:34):
I know you could ask this a lot. I know
you could ask about the relationship a lot, But how
has the relationship evolved now to where you guys are
both friends and guys that can work together in and
around these matches that you put on. So I think
it's changed when we started to work together on the
Ryder Cup kind of task forts if you will, to
bring out the best play in the US squad in
(22:54):
the in the Ryder Cup, and then when he was
the assistant captain in two thousand and sixteen, we were
talking quite often about pairings and playing and course set
up in all the little details on how to be
or give the U side the best opportunity to be successful.
And I think that was where we started really working together.
I have known for a long time the value of
(23:16):
him to the game of golf. He brought us from
the back page to the front page of the the
USA today, which was was the paper back to the time,
and he had the ability to really increase the ratings
and increase corporate exposure, increased persons. I mean, I remember Shane.
When I won my first PGA Tour event in the
Tuston Open, the entire person was one million dollars first
(23:39):
places a hundred eighty thousand. Now I was an amateur,
so I didn't get I didn't collect it, but that
was what the post was. And I remember wondering at
that time in my career we would ever have a
million dollar first place check, and I really didn't think
it would happen. And the tire comes along and and
the the growth of the game of golf, the PGA
to the interest in the PGA Tour, the interest in television. Uh,
(24:01):
and all of these things really took off at an
exponential rate and we started to uh shortly they're after
playing compete for a million dollar first place checked every week.
I mean, it's it's been incredible. And so I've known
the value that he's brought to the game. And and
when he struggled a little bit, nobody wanted him to
come back and get back out on top and play
(24:22):
well more than I do, because I, uh, you know,
was intricately involved in in a ton of having along
with what he was able to do for the game,
and I was able to capitalize on it, probably more
so than anybody. Yeah, I mean, and the match has
been an example of this. I mean, you guys both
have your different skill sets. I mean, I would say
you are you know, you're a more entertaining person to
(24:45):
listen to talk when you're on the golf course, you're
always kind of explaining what's going on, and you're talking
with whom ever is walking around. I mean, I remember
even at the match, you looked over at me Tiger
missed putt. I believe on fifteen, and as we were
walking off the green, you looked at me and you said,
I wheeled that one out of the hole. I mean,
you had your eyes real big, and you're all out
sided about it. I mean, you know, you guys use
each other to produce these unbelievable golf events, and we're
(25:07):
gonna have a third one coming up. Did you see
this as a for lack of a better term, franchise.
Was this something you felt like was going to evolve
into what it is with the Barclays and the Bradies
and the patents of the world wanting to be involved,
or at the time, did you simply just see it
as you know, these are the two biggest guys in
golf playing against each other. People are going to pay
attention to it. I think when it first started, I
(25:28):
don't think we have that big long term vasion. It
was just kind of this would be something people would
be interested in. Let's do it. Let's let's create a
little bit of excitement and have some fun doing it
and do something together. It was kind of our first
real partnership and kind of a business sense outside of
the writer. Delp and I thought we we both thought
it would be cool. After last one though, that's when
(25:50):
they we we kind of saw the long term potential like, wow,
these could really be cool and to help the game
of golf that's going to also help other areas. Like
we raised you know which the million for COVID relief,
Well that was that was using the game of golf
and and athletes from other sports and the interest across
the country in this great game and the ability to
social distance while we competed to raise money for a
(26:14):
really good cause, just like we're trying to raise money
for a really good cause here with social justice and
and so we're we're starting to see the vision for
for what this, what this can be and and and
it's exciting to to create one or two events that
kind of showcase this great game of golf because we're
in a growth spurt right now because it's the only
(26:36):
thing you can do during COVID to really stay safe,
you know, sports wise, and you go out on the
golf course, you get social distance, you can play safely
and and have fun in a sports environment. And so
our golf courses are really kind of shown a lot
more um, a lot more participation in play and this
(26:57):
these matches kind of support that kind support the interest,
and I'm hoping that we can keep these players playing
and kind of grow the participation in the in the sport,
which we haven't had in a long time. So you
get Barkley as your partner now, I mean, I love
Charles Barkley. I'm not sure there's many people on the
planet that don't love the guy. But have you talked
(27:20):
to him? Have you have you seen the swing lately?
I mean, are you nervous to have to hit some
of these shots after wherever the t shot ends up
for Charles? So certainly I'm nervous because we're going to
play kind of a modified alternate shot. Looks like we
did the back nine where we're both gonna hit a
tea shot and then we're gonna to play alternate from there.
So if he it's a bad tea shot and we
(27:40):
have to use mine, we're gonna use his next shot.
So yeah, I'm concerned. However, I will point out when
I first played with Charles and he was a member
of Phoenix Suns off of the nineties, Charles Barkley could
play really the seventies almost every round. He had no
hitching his swing. He hit the ball, play long. He
was a normal He was a normal golfer, and uh
shot between seventy four seventy five two every time we
(28:05):
played and never had a hitch in this wing, had
no problems swinning the golf club. So, um, the ability
is in there. I just don't know if we'll get
it out of me. I'm excited to watch. I mean,
he was trash talking you guys the first match, saying
he could come down there and compete. So now he's
actually gonna get the chance, and I think people are pumped,
you know. I I've talked with with Max Homer on
(28:26):
the other podcast I do about this. This in particular accomplishment.
It was when Steph Curry shot that opening around seven
one at the Safe Way back in two thousand and eighteen.
I feel like it's one of the more underrated athletic
achievements and people don't talk about it much. An NBA
player shooting around of seventy one in professional golf. Have
you played golf with Steph Curry? Do you know how
(28:47):
good he is? Is he the best non professional golfer
athlete that you've seen out there over the last you know,
twenty thirty years. So of all those celebrities and all
the the athletes that I've played with, leave Tony Romo
and Steph Furry are the two best that I've played with.
They're clearly plus handicaps. Uh, they're on par with a
(29:07):
like kind of mini tour level professional golfer. And they
both have kind of a natural instinct for for the game.
Know how to kind of read the nuances of the
golf of professional golfer is like reading the lie, how's
the ball going to come out? Distance control, being able
to shape shots, being able to limit a limitated half
the golf course, and both of those games can do
(29:27):
that pretty effectively. And uh, you know, stuff is gonna
be tough. I mean, he's he's certainly not Tiger Wood.
So Peyton is is downgrading his partner and stuff. You know,
Bartley and Brady, I don't know, it's kind of it's
kind of like a lateral move. I don't know. And
uh that I probably shouldn't say because Brady actually he
(29:49):
can really play like I played with him when he
he lights it up and he's a great potter, and
and he didn't have a chance to practice much for
match too, and wasn't at his best, but uh, I
feel like I feel like Charles and I are going
to sunnily dominate this match. We're gonna talk smack the
entire way and be laughing and giggling the whole tum.
(30:09):
I need you to ask Charles at some point to uh,
to to get have his thoughts on a lie and
just see what he says and what do you think
this is gonna jump? What do you feel like here
is this? What's what's going to happen with this lie? Yeah?
I don't think we're We're not there yet. Okay, Okay,
ch it's probably probably fair. You know, uh, Phil, you've
been out on tour forever. You've seen all of it.
(30:29):
You know, You've you've seen the great young players that
didn't make it, You've seen the no name players that
have won multiple major championships. Of all the things out there,
of all of the parts of golf mentally, physically, everything,
what has been the one intangible that you feel like
pro golfers have to have to be successful on the
PGA Tour. So the one thing that I've the one
(30:52):
is we're gonna try to point down to one which
I think there are many, But the biggest difference between
guys that get the most out of their talent and
guys that don't is going to be their ability to
control their thoughts. So what happens to a lot of
guys have been things start going bad and around, they
start to see where they don't want the ball to go,
(31:14):
and they start hitting it there, and they don't have
the ability to read take control of their thoughts and
focus on what they want to do. So that that
has led to, you know, a lot of final round collapses.
That has led to a lot of guys turning a
round of uh see seventy two into seventies seventy seven.
(31:37):
It might be on Thursday or Friday, but knock them
right out of the tournament. You'll see it. It's easier
to point out, you know, find a round of the major.
But um, that's the one thing that I think the
great players have the ability to do is take control
of their thoughts and you focus on what it is
they want to do, rather than continue to let thoughts
(31:58):
of what they don't want to have happened into their minds.
I mean, can you see this happening, Phil? Can you
see a guy either you're playing with them, you're watching
them on TV, whatever, whatever you the case might be.
Can you see the indecision and the uncomfortable nous and
maybe the meltdown pending from players that that aren't right
(32:19):
there where they need to be in terms of the
confidence in their ability to just slow everything down. Well,
it's going to happen to all of us. We're all
going to go through these rough patches, right, But it's
the ability to turn it around, retake control of your thoughts,
start to refocus on what you want to have happen,
and start to execute those those swings. Those are the
(32:39):
guys that ultimately win and are tough to beat down
the stretch. There's a lot of guys that have h
struggled with with that, and so they win. They still
win tournaments when things are clicking and everything is going
great and they've got uh and and they're firing all
cylinders and all they're seeing is great shop and that's
all they're hitting. They get the good gree of getting
(33:00):
the zone and they end up taking out to victory.
But the guys like Tiger that are tough when they
don't might not have their best off and they hit
a few bad shots, his ability to re take control
of his thoughts and starts to refocus on what he wants.
That's what separates the really tough, the petitors, the great champions,
the guys that have high closing rates when leading up
(33:21):
for fifty four holes, and guys that don't. All right,
I got some quick fire ones that I'm gonna let
you go first. One is pretty easy. What's the best
Phil Nicholson Halloween costume You've ever worn? So it's been
a while since I've been uh Halloween costume? Um, I
would say in the nineties six Phoenix Open, I was
(33:43):
one of the uh I was in the band. I
was in a band as a member of one of
the band the famous bands at the time. What I
can't even remember the name of it, but uh no,
I don't know. It's like there was a construction work earlier,
was a was the sailor face paint Stewart was on
(34:04):
there or something like that. That's that's abandoned thing that
what are you are you? Musically? Are you? Are you
musically talented? Filled? You? Can you play anything? No? Yeah? No,
now let left left. He is never good with the guitar.
It's it's it's too hard. Who was the best Ryder
Cup teammate you've ever had? So I don't want to
single anybody out because I've had I've been on so
(34:26):
many teams. I don't want to single anybody out. I've
had some great partners over the years. Is if you
had a mulligan you could use on a shot in
your career, what would the mulligan be? So it would
be the eight teen toll at Wingfoot in the US
Open in two thousand six, But it would not be
the drive. It would be the second shot, because the
second shot was not that hard. I had a very tight,
(34:48):
a tight hard pan lie. There was nothing wrong with it.
All I had to do with it a cut three
iron around a tree and get it up by the green.
And I hit it a yard or two too far
to the left and it caught the tree limb. And
then the ball shot left. If I missed that limb
and get the ball started a little further right, the
(35:08):
ball's going up by the green, if not on the green,
and I'm going to have a chance a very easy
up and down to win the ball. Family. What's the
highest mph has you ever hit on a radar gun?
So we did not have Uh, we did not have
trapped man and and uh these squads and all the
launch monitors my entire career and so early in my prime,
(35:29):
in my twenties and thirties, I did not have that information.
But at last year's Masters, I was at one point
something uh, and that was as fast as I can
remember seeing the club. What's the fastest you ever threw
a baseball? Did you ever hit anything in like the eighties?
I'm gonna go with nine. I don't I don't know.
(35:53):
I mean, I I don't know. Um, you know, I
I don't know. I was not going to blow anybody
away with my fostball, but I had I had a
good splitter. That's good. What was the best Champions dinner
meal that that has ever been served? And you've been
a part of Huh, that's uh. I actually thought. I
(36:15):
think it was that Tregrera had some Argentinian meats that
was phenomenal. And I realized that all of the older
guys they don't want to steak, so when I came
in with like a lobster ravioli, They're like, they just
give me a steak. So they didn't even eat lobster
ravioli that I had made. They had to make a
stake up. So I started just doing that in the
(36:37):
next time or two that I want. So that that's
your suggestion that next time somebody wins a master's just
steak potatoes. Let's make it as easy as possible, like
nice red wine. Yeah, yeah, because all the old guys
want that. Do you have a particular Phil flop shot
that comes to mind as the best one? I mean,
you know, yeah, there's there's plenty to pick from, I'm sure,
(36:59):
but there is there one you hit that you always
kind of go back to, is like that was the toughest,
best one I pulled off. So this is one I've
seen a lot on social media, which was the A
ten pull at TCC Boston when I was down by
the hazard and I hit one. And I don't think
I've ever hit one more vertical or as high as
that one. That one was ridiculous. It was almost like
a jumper, like the ball jumped straight up rather than
(37:20):
like the pure flop shot where it comes out dead. Um,
but that one was. That one was ridiculous. I actually
remember one on seven at Valld Hall of Going t
J Championship in that I hit that was about as
ridiculous as one and as I've ever hit also, Um,
(37:43):
but that one at Boston was it was a really
good one. Yeah. I think I was doing PGA Tour
live for that, and I believe we replayed at about
eighty seven times. And I think we didn't show live
golf for about half an hour after you hit that shot.
It was like, let's just keep showing different angles. This
was the is gonna be the best thing that comes
out of today. That's uh, that's how impressive that was.
(38:03):
So yes, I remember that one vividly and sometimes when
I close my eyes it pops up. That's how often
we played it. Um, what is your dream practice round
grouping for for your game? It's a Wednesday. You get
to throw three guys in there that you always love
playing with. And this isn't a single anybody out Just
who are the three people you throw in? I really
really enjoy um playing with Keegan Bradley and Brendan Steel,
(38:27):
like those two guys like I laugh and I've got
some good matches with John rom and Xander, But you know, Kegan,
Keegan makes me laugh, uh about as much as anybody,
I think it's just quirkiness. I'm not even sure what
to say. But every time I'm around him, like, I
laugh and giggle, and I just I can't. I can't
(38:52):
play without him in the group because it's really fun
with him. Yeah, all right, Well, the last thing I'll do,
and I'm gonna let you go. I did want to
ask about your TV appearance at the p g A.
I was messaging with you about it a little bit,
and just I thought you, obviously as everybody did. I
thought you were really impressive there and you seemed really comfortable.
Was it tougher than you thought it'd be? Did you?
Would you have a better appreciation for the booth now
(39:14):
and is this something that at some point in your
career you are interested in maybe getting into. I think
that I was surprised at the feedback. I surprised how
positive the feedback was because I was just kind of
articulating what I saw, and so it came. I thought
it came very easy in the sense that I was just,
you know, saying what I saw, So I didn't think
that it was that insightful per se. But I guess
(39:37):
that I just see things that others don't like. The
grain of the grass, and then how is the ball
going to react? And if the ball if the grass
is wet, you know, the ball is gonna skid. I
remember a shot that Jimmy Dunn, who's one of my
favorite people, hit and number three at Augusta, and he
hit the ball down left and again was over to
the left and he was going to try to hit
a flop shot and it just rained in the grass
(39:58):
was w and I said, Jimmy, the rye grass is wet. Okay.
Normally when it's dry, it grabs the ball. It's sticky.
I said, but it's wet today. Why don't you just
bump it into the hill. It's gonna skip right through that, uh,
right up the hill. And he said, really okay. Well
he gave it a try. The ball skipp all up
the hill and it went in the hole for an
evil too. And I just thought, that's like it's little
(40:23):
nuances like that chain that that are just kind of
like second nature. Like I don't understand how that's not
common knowledge, but it just isn't. And so when I
articulate that, I don't feel like I'm saying anything insightful,
But to a lot of people that haven't played golf professionally.
I haven't played their whole life and spent so many
hours practicing like I have. It might not be common
(40:44):
knowledge to them, and so it was something I enjoyed doing. However,
competing and playing golf for living is what I really
enjoy and what challenges in me and and keeps me
motivated and working hard. So I'm not I'm not sure
that I'm ready to do that yet or that I
really want to. Yeah, I mean I feel like there's
no replacement for someone that is coming right off the
(41:05):
golf course into the booth. You know, anytime you have
a player that played that golf course and has a
chance to react to what they've already seen with their
own skills, right, I mean, you were on the golf course,
you know what the place was playing like. That's really
hard to replace in terms of insight, and that was
something you brought to the broadcast. And I think that
is a is a huge advantage if if that was
(41:26):
something that you could routinely throw in, I mean, if
you could just randomly have players come in after if
they'd be willing to do it, it would give a
different insight, you know, from somebody that that is observing
from a booth and and hasn't had a chance to
go out and play that golf course in that day's conditions.
You know what I'm saying, You're exactly right. I mean,
that's a huge insight into sharing with the viewer what
(41:48):
is what, what what is happening, what how the course
is playing. Uh, but I don't think you really need
to um to be having to be on the golf
course to be able to have that insight. I mean,
it's you can use simple math by just looking at
a Green's book and say, look at the greens pitch
at three point five, they're rolling thirteen. Their ball won't
(42:08):
stay there, so he can't you know, the ball it's
gonna run tensey by he's you know, this is the
best he can do is over here. If he misses
it righty, he's not gonna be able to get open down.
I mean that that's just simple math if you just
kind of look at the Green's book and you know
you're able to read those numbers um or see the
(42:30):
rough or or just I don't see. I don't feel
like you have to play the golf course to be
able to articulate that if you have that information there
and you know you know what you're looking at totally. Well, Phil,
I appreciate it. Thanks so much for taking the time.
Anything uh new for you upcoming? I mean, you know,
you you got the social media world a buzz all
the time now with what you're doing there, and you're
(42:51):
always rolling out new videos. Anything new on the horizon
in two thousand, twenty or twenty one for Phil Nicholson,
Uh not, not really other than things we've discussed, you know,
trying to play, compete, trying to get uh get ready
for the masses and and you know, compete in the
(43:12):
match and and get my get my man, Sir Charles,
get his game sharp and ready and competitive. Uh, I
mean at least, but I'm having fun. I mean that's
the big thing is I'm having fun and I'm enjoying it.
And I don't know what the next chapters are going
to bring. I don't know if it's gonna be commentating,
if it's gonna if I'm gonna be able to stay
competitive or be some PINDI on the TJ Tour or
(43:32):
the Champions Tour or what, or if I'm gonna do
you know, some for social media or because I don't
really know what the next chapters. I just thought I'm
having found at all the things I'm doing well. I
appreciate the time you guys. You guys have a good drive,
and I'll talk to you soon. Thanks Jane. We're gonna
take a quick break and be right back. A big,
(44:01):
big thanks to Phil Nicholson for all that time, forty minutes.
I couldn't ask for more, and I was. I was
very very happy with him jumping on and joining. You know,
I got a tick on another Hall of Famer on
the podcast had been a while and uh, and I
was happy to throw another name on there. It's like
a peg board, you know, where the top one hundred
courses you play. Uh, and you know Gary Player has
been on, trying to think, is that Phil? It might
(44:24):
be it. That's Juli Ankster, Juliankster hall of Famer, maybe
Zinger Curtis. I'm actually a few more than maybe I thought.
But that doesn't matter to anybody except for myself, So
big thanks to Phil for doing that. If you like
the show, if you're a fan of the podcast, tell
your friends, Tell people you don't like and uh and
rate and review the show. It helps out, you know,
getting the word out. It helps out people finding the podcast,
(44:46):
so rate and review it. It takes thirty seconds, sixty seconds.
That is all. Uh, and yeah, we'll be back next week.
I'm recording a podcast this week for next week, so
I know there'll be one with another exciting guest who
actually has had a relationship over the years with Phil Nicholson.
So that'll be next week. You guys, enjoy the weekend.
Whether it's getting good on the West coast, I'm assuming
it's cooling off up north, but stay warm, stay safe,
(45:08):
and hopefully you get out and play a little golf.
The clubhouse was Shane Bacon as a production of I
Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
(45:29):
the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
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