July 12, 2025 • 43 mins
Colin Cowherd is joined by Danny Parkins, Jason Timpf, and Nick Wright to discuss the WNBA’s biggest draw: Caitlin Clark.
What does the media get wrong about Caitlin Clark? Is the Indiana Fever star the next Michael Jordan? Will she be a billion dollar athlete like LeBron James? What will the future hold for one of the most popular basketball players on the planet?
Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!
#Volume
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
So I'm gonna throw this at you. There are some
genetic and gender realities that seem unfair to me. Oh,
you're driving on the freeway. You're driving on the freeway.
Be totally honest. If a skinny guy is in a
car eating, he's got burgers, you're thinking to yourself, that
guy's on the go, he doesn't have time to stop.
That guy is a hustler, he is making things happen. Okay,
(00:35):
Having set guy in a car is eating burgers, You're like,
and I am too. Oh really, you can't even drive
without eating. I mean, give me a break, Like, what
what you can't You can't pull over?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
You have to.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's a it's a we have no idea about those
two people. That is how people view Wait, we're all
watists at times.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay, Yeah, I'm not saying no to your friend Colin.
I can't.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I love your analogies. Go ahead, I'll never refuse it.
Here's a gender reality.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Men can hate each other. Jordan still holds a grudge
against Isaiah. Somehow it makes him more likable. Men can
taunt contrash talk. If Angel Reese appears to hate Caitlyn Clark,
it becomes a race topic. It is outrageous. It is unfair,
(01:27):
and I'm like time out. Women athletes can hate rivals too,
It's not to me.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm like, is it race we hate?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Is it used to be a commodity like you loved
when the writer cup we hated the years? Now everybody's rich.
But the Caitlyn Clark Angel Reese rivalry. One got the
best of the other in college the junior year. The
other one got the best of senior year. One goes midway,
small city, one goes big city. One gets more press.
(02:03):
I just I look at it and I think it
doesn't bother me that Angel Reese doesn't like Caitlin like like,
by the way, Caitlyn's game is fun and flashy.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Angels a rebounder like She's probably got a little built
in animosity. She won't get the press.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I think it's the worst story in sports media. I
hate the discourse around it. I think I think it's
I think it brings out the worst in everybody. I
really do think it's it's just show a lot of
people are showing their ass on this story. Of course,
what you just said is correct. I one of my
things to trope it's a cliche that I've just I
(02:41):
like the turn of phrase that I created less hate
in the world, more hate in sports. Sports hate is good.
It is objectively good. Now when it leads to like
fights in the stands, Okay, fine, someone took it too far,
But that doesn't mean that it is a bad thing.
Trash talk, rivalries, bolletin board material, lobbying, shots in the press,
(03:08):
hard fouls, staredowns, the occasional fight.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Those things are good.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
They're good for ratings, they're good for business, they're good
for fan interest, they're good for jersey sales.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
They are good.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It is good for the WNBA for there to be
sports hape, for there to be rivalries. It is a
good thing that is so objectively obviously true that I
can't believe anyone even dares to deny it. I do
think the Bird Magic stuff is a little ridiculous because
(03:41):
Bird and Magic, in terms of talents, we're kind of equals. Yes, Yes,
this is more like Michael Jordan and Bill Lambert. You
know they were rivals. Yeah, but they're not really the
same type of player, right. They hated each other, they
had great moments, but they were not like no one
(04:04):
was like, you know who carried the NBA at popularity,
Michael Jordan and Bill Lambier. It was not not how
we just got Like Caitlyn Clark is the phenomenon, She's
the comment and like that does that spur jealousy?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Are there interesting racial components to that story that I
think are fair to be discussed. For a league that
has had great players white and black before Caitlyn Clark,
why haven't they caught on in the same type of way,
Like I think that there is like fair conversations to
be had there. But a hard foul by Angel Reese
(04:45):
in a basketball game that like didn't even result in
a fight, It resulted in she said the F word. Like,
what the hell is the matter with people? I mean,
it's it's embarrassing, Like and the we don't need to
name the names. Everyone knows. The discourse of you know
(05:06):
who's going like you're talking about people's wives and you're
making it personal and then you're bringing all these just
shut up, shut up. It's just so it's so beneath
the industry to like take the discourse of online. You
are amazing at not being too online. I give you
(05:27):
a ton of credit for it. Nick Nick right, it's
amazing how he doesn't read his mentions. I still am
addicted to my phone. I still read my mentions. I
have gotten much much, much, much and much better about
not letting it bother me and not responding. But it
is so very clear that way too many people in
our industry formulate their opinions based on the algorithm that
(05:51):
they see on X and it's just complete horseshit. Like
I don't believe that people that go to that bas
B sketball game left being like, you know what, that
was a race war like basketball, Like you.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Know, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I it's crazy and I'm not the biggest WNBA fan.
I'm not claiming to have WNBA bona fides or like
watching for years or like going ten deep on all
the rosters. So people like Parkins, I don't give a
shit about your WNBA takes.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That's fine. I just know sports and narratives that is.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
A good thing for business, and people taking their online
commentary that is designed to divide us and then making
it actually like inform their sports opinions on television when
they are multi millionaire former professional athletes. They don't even
realize what they're doing, but it's just very embarrassing if
(06:51):
I really do find it embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Sorry to interrupt this great video, but please remember to
like and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Thank you. Now back to the video. Yeah, it's my take.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
My take on Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees from the
beginning is the league was growing, but she's Taylor Swift
and tennis shoes. She's not doesn't have to be the
best player in the league. Taylor Swift doesn't have the
best voice. Adele does like like she doesn't have the
best voice. There's something, there's some visceral connection between young women,
(07:25):
middle aged women and Taylor Swift that I can't explain.
I'm usually good at listening to music or watching sports
and going that's a superstar. I didn't see it with
Taylor Swift. There's been Lady Gaga I connected.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
There been.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
There have been a lot of artists Adele I heard. Yeah,
when I heard Katy Perry, I was but like Adele.
When I heard Adele, I was like, holy shit, what
is that? That's crazy? Lady gagat did that to me.
I remember Garth Brooks years and years ago, hearing him
and going it was like New Country. It wasn't like
you know, old madal My Porch. It was like cool country.
(08:02):
And I'm like Shanaiah Twain. I'm usually pretty good at
spotting stuff and going bang the Taylor swift up. I
can't even explain it. Now, she's got she got a
nice voice, she's really smart. But I can't explain it.
Caitlin Clark's not that hard to explain. Holy shit, she's
taking shots. Yeah, of course some NBA players wouldn't take.
(08:23):
Of course, I said, she's Steph Curry plus Jason Kidd.
The sixty foot passes, the thirty foot bombs, You're like
half the NBA would not make those plays. She's a
comet because it doesn't look like anything else.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Of course, if a player in five years started dunking
like Anthony Edwards, like, we'd be like, oh my god,
some it's believable because we haven't seen it in the
in the w NBA. Right, So yeah, I think that
part of it is also very obvious. She's the Steph
(08:58):
curryization of basketball has hit women's basketball in a way
and at a moment. And you and I have talked
about this months ago. Now, Like listen, part of this
is ESPN, which the world is changing, Cable is changing. Fine,
it is still the behemoth of sports television. They promote
(09:20):
the shit out of it. Yeah that helps, Like real
talented analysts, real talented broadcasters, real they're not on ESPN
News like they're in good time slots on good networks
on ABC on ESPN in prime time on weeknights with
(09:41):
a real pregame show and a real postgame show and
a real play by play guy.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And they do a good job on college hoops, and
so they think they're invested in it, and it's a
cyclical thing, and they hit this phenomenon like the fact
that that game that was a blowout outrated Yankees red Sox.
That matters, like that that matters.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And so I just yeah, I mean all the respect
in the world to her talent, all the respect in
the world to like people who have been WNBA fans
for forever and have been like now get to say
I told you so, But I just I wish our
media colleagues realized a little bit better that they were
(10:25):
being played by the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Because they're all athletes. They can't possibly be offended by
that foul. They can't.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
It's it's impossible that a bunch of football players are
were so offended by that foul that they had to
make this big of a deal out of it. So
I just eventually they'll need to talk about the basketball.
And I think for some people it's just easier to
culture war everything, and I think it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Okay, I want to I want to bring this up.
We can close on this because I saw this today.
It's fascinating. So a university professor in finance looked up
the value of Caitlin Clark for the WNBA. This is insane.
So this year, last season in the WNBA, Caitlin Clark
(11:24):
was twenty six and a half percent of all economic
activity as a rookie on the worst team in the
league when she entered it. So now she has an
eight year, one hundred and twenty eight million dollar deal
with Nike, so you know she's she's going to eat
merchandise in the league. Went up off a rookie from
(11:48):
a Midwest based school on the worst team in the
league two hundred and thirty four percent. But here was
the one that struck me so before she got there,
the Indiana fever, the valuation of the franchise was ninety million.
Remember they play a short season. It's not like the
NBA where it lasts like six months after playing what
(12:10):
forty games. The valuation of that team now is three
hundred and forty million dollars.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
She is almost.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
That's what NBA teams were selling for ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
She has called usual the valuation. And I was talking.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I was with a group of friends tonight at dinner,
and people that didn't know the WNBA were like, asking, well,
why what.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Does she do?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
And we said, well, she makes passes and take shots
that nobody else in the sport does, so she's a
bit of a It's like when Tiger Woods came on
the tour, Like he drove it further, He's long, putting
was better. He looked like a football player in the
red shirts. Like he just was different than every other
golfer you grew up with, and people like unique and different. Here,
(13:00):
my question to you is there's still no other Like
somebody said at the party, well there'd be another Caitlin Clark,
and I'm like, well there's not another Steph Curry. Like
there's guys that can shoot threes'. I don't think it's
a game, you duplicate and I listen. Let's just be honest.
There are more great male athletes in the world than
female athletes. There is no second Steph Curry. There is
(13:23):
no other player that plays like that.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
My take is she could be a billion dollar athlete.
Are you.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Are you surprised by it? Like when I see these numbers,
I'm like, oh, this is Tiger and the Tour. This
doesn't this isn't even Jordan, this is totally different.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Well, I think when you look at basketball, there are
two real kind of like ultimate show type of athletes
that you see, meaning like must see television. And it's
the supreme vertical athlete, which think like young On or
kind of like Anthony Edwards now Dominique. Yeah yeah, like
(14:04):
the guy that does stuff in the air that is
unlike anything you see anywhere else, doctor j And then
the second piece of it is just unbelievable shot making.
Those are the two things. Those are the two things
that like really bring eyes to television. To take it
a step further, there are two types of basketball players
(14:25):
that I think are far and away the most winning
impact in the current game of basketball. It's the big,
strong playmaker. Think Lebron Luka Jokic, and it's the indomitable shooter,
which there's really only been Steph. I think those two
types of players are the players that give you the
(14:46):
best chances to win basketball games in the modern in
the modern world. Now, what makes it fascinating to me
because that's what Caitlyn Clark is. She's a different type
of player, and she can do a lot of different
types of things, but she's essentially bringing a Steph Curry
like basketball impact to the WNBA. It's really this simple.
If you can shoot the way that she shoots, so
(15:06):
the way step shoots, and you can perpetually be in
motion running around, inevitably there is an overreaction to your
shooting ability. And we see this all the time with Kaitlyn,
just like you're gonna see you're gonna see Aliah Boston
get NonStop easy buckets in the mid range or rolling
to the basket, because every time she sets a screen
(15:28):
for Caitlin, her defender is stepping up to guard Caitlin
because as she comes off of that screen, if you're
not there, she's gonna shoot it and she's gonna make it.
And so there's a reaction that invert spacing in brings
a four on three because you bring multiple defenders away
from the rim, there's a four on three with a
(15:48):
vacated paint and because of that, there's a lot of
easy opportunities to score there. Like that's the thing with
Steph Curry, Like Steph Curry is not the same shot
maker that he was four years ago in twenty twenty one,
but just the simple threat of him running around gives
the Warriors a chance to score. And that's the thing,
Like Caitlyn hasn't even really started hitting shots yet this
year the way that she's capable of, but everyone knows
(16:10):
she can and they guard her in that fashion. And
so to me, it's kind of like a proof of
concept in that if you can shoot and you can
run around the way that Steph does, and you can
strike fear into a defense in that way, the trickle
down effects with the way that defenses guard you just
make everything so much easier for her. And like you
could argue she's already the best offensive engine in the
(16:32):
WNBA and she's literally a second year player and like,
and she still has so much room to improve, Like
she still struggles with ball pressure, she still turns them.
She turned the ball over too much against the Liberty
the other night. She still has a little bit of
an issue where she kind of cross fires across her face,
which makes it so she can only shoot going left.
She needs to build it out so that she can
shoot running to her right as well. But like, judging
(16:54):
by her psycho competitive attitude, she's probably going to figure
that stuff out in the next year or two and
then she'll be the best player in the league. And
so like to me, it's just she fits the mold
of one of the most impactful types of basketball players
you can be today, which is the deadly movement shooter.
If you're a deadly movement shooter, it just opens up
so many things for an offense. And honestly, I just
(17:17):
think I think she's must see television Colin. I've watched
all four of her games, and I'm in my busy season,
Like you think i'd be taking a break. My wife
said to me the other day, She's like, you're watching
more basketball, and like, it's Kitlyn Clark, We're watching more basketball.
Come over here, let's watch this. Like she's incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Nothing says summer like long days, clutch plays and firing
off a few bets on a game, all of it
with Draftking sports took my favorite seasons heating up. So
do the bats and Draftking sports Book cat. You cover
home run props, live betting odds, boosts, whether you're chasing
dingers or jumping in mid game, there's always action to
be had. So if you've never bet on baseball before,
it's really really easy. You just pick a guy, hit
(17:55):
a home run, hammer some live odds mid game, or
just ride with your squad and hopefully the best. No spreadsheets,
just vibes. So here's something special for first timers. You
may have heard this before. New Draft Kings customers. All
you have to do is bet five bucks. That's it,
and you'll get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus
bets instantly. So you just download the DraftKings sports Book app.
You know how to do that in ninety seconds, and
(18:16):
just use my code. It's Colin co l i N.
That's code Colin co l i N. That'll get you
one hundred and fifty bucks. If you're a new customer
betting just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
Yours gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler in New
York called eight seven seven eight hope and wire text
Hope and Y four six seven three six nine in Connecticut.
Help is available for problem gambling called eight eight eight
seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG
dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino
in Resorting, Kansas twenty one on over agent Eligibility varies
by jurisdiction, Void and Ontario New customers only. Bonus bets
(18:50):
expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance. Four
additional terms and responsible gaming resources see DKNNG dot co.
Slash audio.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
She doesn't know is get the consistent great star whistle.
She I mean, there's I think they're still kind of
figuring out how to officiate her right, like like when
you're when you know, I've said this for years. When
I covered Shack and to Shack, Shack got fouled more
than anybody I've ever seen. I mean, it was insane.
You just people bounced off Shack Jokics feeling Yokics complains
(19:27):
constantly like people are bouncing off me. She doesn't quite
get as favorable a whistle as you think, so I.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I think neither's step two. That's the funny part.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Well, And I think I will give the w NBA credit.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
They they just didn't understand the tsunami ever popularity, Like
they didn't get the schedule. Uh, and you don't know
what you don't know. They've done a much better job
to I mean, all her games are on television. Every
time I turn on a WA every time I see
a promote promotion for the wi NBA, it's Caitlin Clark,
so they're there. But I do think there's a process on.
(20:05):
You know, you're an official. You don't want to give
her too favorable a whistle because the players in the
league will resent her to some degree.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
She's getting all this attention and I don't.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
And I will say this, I've defended the w NBA
with this. Baseball and the WNBA feel ignored. The NFL
and the NBA in college football, they get a lot
of press, and baseball always feels like, hey, we're America's pastime,
so they're very insular, sometimes very provincial. And the WNBA, similarly,
(20:33):
you don't pay attention to us. So there's part of it,
like I get like they sort of resent this one player,
nobody talks WNBA.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
They do, and it's all her.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
You know. I remember when Tiger was eighteen, nineteen, twenty
years old coming out of the tour, there were a
lot of people in golf that were like, could you
guys show, could you talk in your sportscast about anybody
other than Tiger Woods?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
So she's not. Bryce Harper came into baseball.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
He fought with an own teammate in the dugout because
it was like, Oh, everybody wants to talk to so.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I do defend the WNBA.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Is that I get if nobody paid attention to you
for twenty six years and now they do, and they
feign interest in the rest of the league. What we
all care about Caitlin. So the animosity built up by players,
I give it a little bit of a pass. You know.
I think people are spending too much time on race.
(21:26):
You know, it is what it is. There's a million platforms,
a million opinions, But I don't know. My take is
there's still in the adjustment period with Caitlin. How to market,
how to promote, how to officiate, how to defend, And
it's just fluid. That's what it feels like to me.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
I think that like when I see the complaining, like
I saw some players complain and some members of the
media complain that she was on TV so much, and
let's just take us out, take fairness and just put
it to the side for a minute, like even with
Nike and giving Caitlin a shoot like set that aside
a minute and just focus on her being on television. Okay,
(22:04):
her being on television brought my eyes to it. I
didn't watch the WNBA. I have grown to really enjoy
watching WNBA basketball even when she's not on and they're
like the Nafista Collier became one of my favorite basketball
players watching her in the finals run last year. And
what brought me to the television was Caitlin. So like,
(22:24):
let's say that the league came out there like every
Caitlyn Clark games on national television, like that's just what
we're gonna do. Deal with it. That would be genius,
because the best way you can market the other WNBA
players is to have them play against Kitland Clark because
we'll all be watching. Okay, well, no one's covering the
rest of the league, Okay, but if you put Caitlin
on television and you get more people to watch. It
(22:46):
will create more WNBA fans, And we live in the
most colin I started making NBA content out of my
guest bedroom. Okay, you create a bunch of WNBA fans,
passionate members of the media will originate from that map,
and we'll cover the league better, and overall, the league
will gain in popularity and gain an impact, and it
will become a momentous thing that carries forward and actually
(23:09):
does shine a big flashlight on the rest of the WNBA.
Caitlin Clark is the vehicle with which to microwave that,
to accelerate it, and to move it into a fast
track towards what could be a bright future for the WNBA.
It's great basketball. It's genuinely great basketball. She's the best
vehicle with which to elevate the sport. I think anything
(23:33):
they can do to put her on TV and promote
her is the best thing they could do for the sport.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, it's Connor McGregor UFC. You know, you knew it existed.
You'd seen fights. You started buying pay per view cards
and sitting through two and a half hours to get
to his fight, and then all of a sudden you
found yourself a year later, hooked on two other fighters
because Dana White would put the second most popular.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Fighter in the undercard.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Exactly, it's all of a sudden, it's John Jones into
Connor McGregor and then they So it's just basic marketing.
And I've said before, I do think the WNBA women's
basketball and I'd said this years ago on FS one,
probably five years ago. The sport was getting better. The
women were, you know, several generations of women were encouraged
(24:16):
to play basketball and to be athletes, and nutritionists came
into the sport and better trainers. There was money in
the league, so they had better training and the players
were getting better. But it takes this, Listen, it took
Magic and Bird in the NBA to take a league
that there were some financial problems. So it's not like
a gender issue, it's a I mean, I think Connor
(24:39):
McGregor's erosion as a fighter has hurt UFC. It doesn't
feel as urgent. And that's and that's already established and
so and we all know that Michael Jordan left once
Magic Bird and Michael had driven the league up. Michael left,
the ratings dropped fifty percent.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So this stuff. Outside of the NFL.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
It's all cyclical, it's all market based, it's all star based,
and it's just a WNBA. You know, was waiting for
its first Tiger, and golf's probably had four in my life,
you know, Jack Nicholson, Arnold Palmer, Tiger. I think Rory's
got a little bit of it, Phil Micholson. So the
(25:19):
history of golf, you know, if you modern history is
not like five guys that have done it. So there's
no reason to be defensive about it. It just it's
all these leagues. They all eventually, I mean, look at boxing.
Allie took it from whatever it was to the next level.
Then there were Sugar, Ray Leonard and Hagler. But when
(25:40):
Larry Holmes arrived, nobody wanted to watch Larry Holmes. It
took an old George Forman.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It's selling a.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Grill that you bake chicken on or cook chick it
on to I mean literally to get the casual back
into boxing. Was George Foreman's second tour. So this is
the way sports works outside of football.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
The cyclical thing is so fat saying, because that's literally
what the NBA is about to go through. Lebron and
Steph won eight titles in eleven years, and now there's
not really a big name yet. Now you could argue
that the parody might prevent the rise of a star,
and that's a separate conversation for another day, but it
is really fascinating. We're in one of those cycles right
now with the NBA. The old guard's going out, there's
a new card coming up.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Years and years ago, this may have been fifteen years ago.
Sports fans, I think, are more savvy today than ever,
and a lot of it's just because of the explosion
of social media and they can you can learn things
just watching TikTok. I mean, I use the TikTok store
every day. And by the way, it's never let me down.
I buy power bars, I buy workout gear. It's never
(26:40):
let me down. The TikTok store is completely undervalued.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
You think that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, the first time I use that, I'm like a
sketchy I'm probably getting robbed. It's twenty four dollars. It's fantastic,
And everything I buy in that TikTok store is amazing.
That's not an ad I just I bought power bars today. So,
but I was thinking years I did a topic where
I said, this is when I would take calls. I
was only doing a radio show. I said, you guys
(27:05):
don't understand Madonna was in her prime. I said, it's
much more well known than Derek Jeter in his prime.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's not close. One's a global star. I got thirty
calls in a row. No way, Derek.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I'm like Derek. The brand of the Yankees is bigger
than Derek Jeter. Like Derek Jeter is not the if
he played in Kansas City, he'd just be an all star.
Sports fans they struggle sometimes with like recognizing that nobody
knows who Jalen Hurts is out of America unless you're
a sports fan. Your sister who doesn't love sports doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Who Jalen Hurts is.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Even after the Super Bowl, she's heard of maybe the
Tush push, but that's about it. And I was thinking
about this, how many NBA players, and I know Caitlin
Clark is an athlete, but how she's like beyond that
now she kind of transcends sports. She's like, it's racial,
it's political, it's polarizing, it's it's a lot of things. Yes,
(28:00):
how many NBA players are more famous than Caitlin Clark,
Lebron's Steph Absolutely, maybe Durant.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
That's what I put.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I said, I wrote down k D maybe in one
year out of women's basketball for a horrible team when
she arrived. Outside of Lebron and Steph, she is the
most well known basketball player currently playing in the United States.
Oh yes, And I don't think that's close.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Like I I think I might have said this to
you last year that I thought the most famous basketball
player under thirty was Caitlin Clark. And it's like you said,
I don't think it's particularly close. Like when the she
is demonstrably and inarguably more famous than all of this
(28:57):
generation's NBA stars. She just is, like it it really
Lebron is, I don't know, probably one of the twenty
most famous people in the world. At a secondary level,
there is Steph, And at a far different level, there
is Durant. And the next basketball person, like active basketball person,
(29:22):
is Caitlin Clark.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Like the the.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
It's I don't even I don't think that's a hot take.
I don't think that's controversial. I think that's just obvious.
And I think that it is awesome for the sport
and I think that it is awesome for sports fans,
and it it is what I think some people need
to be. Okay, like this is this is apples and oranges,
(29:52):
but not exactly and this is not a fair comparison.
But just the audience is smart, they'll figure it out.
I think it's probable that Lonzo I'm sorry that LaMelo
Ball is more famous than Tyrese Halliburton. No one with
a brain thinks he's better than Tyrese Halliburton, but he
(30:13):
is my famous. You agree, So I think sometimes like
die Hard WNBA or women's basketball fans conflate the discussion
about fame and popularity with a ranking of players quality.
Now Kate Clark is to me, I mean, she was
first team All WNBA last year. She has a legitimate
(30:35):
argument that she's a top five player in the league,
and before this injury, probably was going to make a
real case to win League MVP this year. But if
someone's like, hey, I watch I have WNBA League pass.
I watched the whole league, guy have for years. I
think she is currently the seventh best player in the league,
I'd listened to him like, okay, maybe, like you know,
(30:56):
the Brianna Stewart, Asia Wilson, like whomever. But that's not
the discussion that now. It is also important that your
fame not lap your ability. Again, not to like I'm
just thinking because we're talking about women's sports. An example
of that to me would be like this make me
(31:17):
feel old. But on a corner, Cova, Remember so she
was at a time the most famous women's centnis player,
and I think she was during a lot of that
time not one of the twenty best. She you know her,
she was more famous, far more famous than she was successful.
But it's quite often that your fame lags your ability,
(31:40):
as I think happens to Nikola Jokic, you know, as
an example. And it is also often that your fame,
you know, is a few steps ahead of your ability
when it is a super nova moment, is when your
fame when you are the most famous and you're the best,
like that happ that That was bron with the NBA.
(32:04):
Obviously Jordan Kobe, you know, at least was close to
the best, if not the best, for a brief period,
and it's what I is going to happen, I believe
with Caitlin Clark, because I do think she will have
a period where she is clearly the best player in
the league. And again, it could happen sooner than later,
but it's it is so great for the sport because
(32:28):
it she is someone that people show up to the
party because of her. And where I give the evolution
of the WNBA and women's basketball credit is I think
people show up to the party, whether it's for the
women's NCAA tournament or the WNBA, and they're like, Oh,
this party's pretty good.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
There's a level of physicality in this sport that isn't
necessarily in the NBA anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Oh it's always been shippier because they're not vertical, so
they're bringing it into each other and it's a very
physical league, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
And so I think that if you have a good
product and your biggest hurdle is getting people to sample
the product, she's a godsend. There's no denying it. And
again there's obviously there's a lot of complicated components to it.
(33:23):
But just because something has complicated components doesn't mean every
discussion about it has to be complicated. And you know,
you can just be like, she is a super nova
fame level of fame with one of a kind talent,
and it is game changing for the entire league that
she's at.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Sorry to interrupt this great video, but please remember to
like and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Thank you. Now back to the video.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Well, and also, she had a rivalry with a star
college player in college, so we have a visceral connection,
which college basketball no longer gives you. It's what college
football gives you all the time. Where you know JJ McCarthy,
you're like, oh, I mean you see all these Buckeyes
in Michigan Wolverines.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
What I think, J McCarthy, I think Michigan. Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Caitlin Clark obviously a huge story in the controversy around it,
and I was thinking about I was pretty hard on
than the WNBA when Caitlin Clark came in, and I thought, guys,
you can't open up with a New York Liberty and
the Connecticut Sun. You want to groove her into some wins,
because remember she went from the final four into camp
into playing and the WNBA they probably knew she would
(34:36):
be good, they didn't think she'd quite be this good. Sure,
but it's getting to be a little bit like MJ
is that And they've done a better job this year.
They had an easier schedule. They've put the games on television,
so the WNBA took a lot of heat, a lot
of heat, and Val Ackerman, the Commissioner's like, Okay, we
(34:56):
got ourselves a complete Taylor Swift and tennis shoe rock
star and they've done a much better job this year.
The officiating is not great, but the league's now just
starting to make real money now, right, Like, so it's
the officials maybe the last part, you know, it's well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I wonder with it. And I don't know, I'm not
educated enough on this about what the hierarchy of officiating is.
But obviously the best basketball officials in the world, or
the NBA officiate in the NBA, right that, let's just
I shouldn't say the world, just let's just do the US.
I assume the second best, like men's college basketball. Well yeah,
(35:35):
I would imagine the third best might be women's college
basketball because up until recently that was a far bigger
industry than the WNBA, like so has the And again
I am just speculating here, but is the WNBA simply
not picking from the you know, the are the people
who are the best officials are like, well, it's way
(35:57):
better jobs in officiating that I can get, so they
assume that's going to be the case. They flew commercial
airlines a year ago, and yeah, I think some st
the NBA moved out of that in like the eighties,
so it's like it's it's just a different ballgame. But
but I was thinking about this.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Most of the time, the media gets it right when
it predicts an all time star. In fact, I would argue,
and I think people listening to this would push back
that we undersold Tiger. Nobody thought Tiger was going to
have the lowest scoring average ever, was going to have
the tied for the most career wins ever, has the
(36:39):
greatest earnings ever. Nobody, not even Nike, would have.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Guessed that, and within five years have the scoring record
at all four majors. Dude, the Tiger slam. Yeah, yeah, no, no, okay,
you're right, Tiger was Tiger Lebron. I would argue. All
the all time grades that turned into all time grades
also actually kind of exceeded expectation.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Sorry to interrupt this great video, but please remember to
like and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Thank you. Now back to the video.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Most of the time I think Bryce Harper at sixteen
was considered arguably the baseball prospect ever. He's turned out
eight time All Star, two time National League MVP, three
hundred and forty home runs plus that is a If
you would have said that when he was sixteen on
sports illstrat he's gonna be an eight time All Star,
two time MVP, you'd be like, yeah, for the best
(37:32):
prospect ever. That that's that's that's in that elite class work.
But I think Caitlin, Clark, Lebron and MJ I think
they're better. And I thought Caitlin was gonna be good.
But Gino Arima, Yucom's coach came out and said, and
this guy knows basketball. He's the best recruiter in the
history of the sport. He's like, this idea is she's
(37:53):
gonna walk into the WNB.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
But it was so here's the thing. All the Yukon
folks had, like the former the legendary Yukon players who
were then in media, and then Gino, they all kind of,
in my opinion, had a bias of man. This was
(38:16):
supposed to be what everyone was saying about Paige Beckers
a year ago, but Paige had blown out her knee
and she missed time and that and all of that,
and so they I think that they and they also
underestimated what a badass Clark was going to be. And
I think they also looked at it and said, well,
she's great and going to be great, but she's not
(38:40):
better than Brianna Stewart or Diana Torazzi, and they you know,
if they had a transition, she will do. And the
answer is she's a She is already one of the
four best players in the league. She is already uh
an absolute and I say this in the kindest words,
(39:03):
an asshole on the court, like the way you kind
of need to don't need to be. But it's something
people historically like in their athletes, like a trash Larry Bird,
Michael Jordan, a trash talker, you know, hard ass. And
she is already impacting winning. I think she has the
(39:23):
best per game plus minus in the league of everyone
that's not on the New York Liberty.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Think about this people ten years ago. So the quality
of WNBA play in the last ten years has improved
more than any league anywhere. The players are the nutrition's better,
the strength is better. You go YouTube and WNBA game
ten years ago, they did not pass like this. Kandas
Parker ten years ago led the league in assists at five.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
And a half a game a game.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Not only is Caitlin park the best shooter, the best guard,
the most infl Benchel, she's also dealing nine assists per game.
So what she's done is she's really changed the tempo.
She's doubling these all time assist numbers or close to it,
and giving you threes and shooting nine feet beyond the arc. So,
(40:16):
I mean, as much as I liked her and I
thought she would be really good, I remember saying on
the air, she's gonna be She's gonna be really good,
top ten player, really fast, I didn't think she'd beat this.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
No, I listen she I agree with you that I
do think she is and in contributing to winning exceeding expectations,
I also think that and maybe eventually we'll get there.
But there so much in my I don't know what
you said on the air about this today because I
(40:47):
missed it, but so much of the social media pearl
clutching of basically we need to like protet Caitlin Clark, I.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Just think it's so.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I think it's patron, and I also think it fails
to recognize this is, in my opinion, the best case
scenario for the league. The fact that she is has
this swagger that there and Brew made this point, and
(41:19):
I thought it was a really good one. The fact
that yesterday's altercasions primarily happened with Caitlin against other white
players was actually a really nice thing because it removed
any of the bullshit like, oh the are the black
players don't like it? No, you know who doesn't like
Caitlyn Clark, most of her opponents, you know who historically
(41:43):
is not that popular in sports. The young, awesome, swaggery,
trash talking player. That player usually has allies on their
team and their fans.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Larry Bird got choked by j everybody and so and
so that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Here's another thing that's awesome. This is only gonna make
Caitlin better and tougher and strong. Guess that's great. The
fact that it is hard and that like because the idea,
because some of Caitlyn's like, there's a real lunatic fringe
on the internet about this conversation, and I hate doing
in life. I don't actually really think both sides are
(42:25):
a problem. Very often in the Caitlin Clark thing, it
is both sides. It is people on both ends of
the spectrum are out of their minds, and the biggest
Caitlyn fans are like the league. This is the league's
cash cow. And if they if they're not suspending these
other players, she could get hurt. Like, give me a break.
It was a light shove. She fell down. She's gonna
(42:46):
be fine. The Fever are gonna be in big games
for a long time. It is she is sustainably drawing eyeballs,
and I do think it is Notewhile people pointed out correctly,
oh man, when she was out the ratings dropped. The
other piece of this is the ratings dropped, but we're
(43:10):
still higher than pre Caitlin Clark WNBA, which means while yes,
some people are just showing up for her, some people
showed up for her, and we're like, oh, I like basketball,
and this is a pretty good product all stick around,
even if she's not there. At least some people did.
It's the best thing imaginable for the league. It's the
best thing imaginable for her, and it is for us,
(43:32):
you know here in hockey ended last night. Basketball probably
ends tomorrow in the NBA. It'll be nice to have
like a captivating sports story for the summer other than baseball,
so I'm excited about it.
So I'm gonna throw this at you. There are some
genetic and gender realities that seem unfair to me. Oh,
you're driving on the freeway. You're driving on the freeway.
Be totally honest. If a skinny guy is in a
car eating, he's got burgers, you're thinking to yourself, that
guy's on the go, he doesn't have time to stop.
That guy is a hustler, he is making things happen. Okay,
(00:35):
Having set guy in a car is eating burgers, You're like,
and I am too. Oh really, you can't even drive
without eating. I mean, give me a break, Like, what
what you can't You can't pull over?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
You have to.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's a it's a we have no idea about those
two people. That is how people view Wait, we're all
watists at times.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay, Yeah, I'm not saying no to your friend Colin.
I can't.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I love your analogies. Go ahead, I'll never refuse it.
Here's a gender reality.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Men can hate each other. Jordan still holds a grudge
against Isaiah. Somehow it makes him more likable. Men can
taunt contrash talk. If Angel Reese appears to hate Caitlyn Clark,
it becomes a race topic. It is outrageous. It is unfair,
(01:27):
and I'm like time out. Women athletes can hate rivals too,
It's not to me.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm like, is it race we hate?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Is it used to be a commodity like you loved
when the writer cup we hated the years? Now everybody's rich.
But the Caitlyn Clark Angel Reese rivalry. One got the
best of the other in college the junior year. The
other one got the best of senior year. One goes midway,
small city, one goes big city. One gets more press.
(02:03):
I just I look at it and I think it
doesn't bother me that Angel Reese doesn't like Caitlin like like,
by the way, Caitlyn's game is fun and flashy.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Angels a rebounder like She's probably got a little built
in animosity. She won't get the press.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I think it's the worst story in sports media. I
hate the discourse around it. I think I think it's
I think it brings out the worst in everybody. I
really do think it's it's just show a lot of
people are showing their ass on this story. Of course,
what you just said is correct. I one of my
things to trope it's a cliche that I've just I
(02:41):
like the turn of phrase that I created less hate
in the world, more hate in sports. Sports hate is good.
It is objectively good. Now when it leads to like
fights in the stands, Okay, fine, someone took it too far,
But that doesn't mean that it is a bad thing.
Trash talk, rivalries, bolletin board material, lobbying, shots in the press,
(03:08):
hard fouls, staredowns, the occasional fight.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Those things are good.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
They're good for ratings, they're good for business, they're good
for fan interest, they're good for jersey sales.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
They are good.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It is good for the WNBA for there to be
sports hape, for there to be rivalries. It is a
good thing that is so objectively obviously true that I
can't believe anyone even dares to deny it. I do
think the Bird Magic stuff is a little ridiculous because
(03:41):
Bird and Magic, in terms of talents, we're kind of equals. Yes, Yes,
this is more like Michael Jordan and Bill Lambert. You
know they were rivals. Yeah, but they're not really the
same type of player, right. They hated each other, they
had great moments, but they were not like no one
(04:04):
was like, you know who carried the NBA at popularity,
Michael Jordan and Bill Lambier. It was not not how
we just got Like Caitlyn Clark is the phenomenon, She's
the comment and like that does that spur jealousy?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Are there interesting racial components to that story that I
think are fair to be discussed. For a league that
has had great players white and black before Caitlyn Clark,
why haven't they caught on in the same type of way,
Like I think that there is like fair conversations to
be had there. But a hard foul by Angel Reese
(04:45):
in a basketball game that like didn't even result in
a fight, It resulted in she said the F word. Like,
what the hell is the matter with people? I mean,
it's it's embarrassing, Like and the we don't need to
name the names. Everyone knows. The discourse of you know
(05:06):
who's going like you're talking about people's wives and you're
making it personal and then you're bringing all these just
shut up, shut up. It's just so it's so beneath
the industry to like take the discourse of online. You
are amazing at not being too online. I give you
(05:27):
a ton of credit for it. Nick Nick right, it's
amazing how he doesn't read his mentions. I still am
addicted to my phone. I still read my mentions. I
have gotten much much, much, much and much better about
not letting it bother me and not responding. But it
is so very clear that way too many people in
our industry formulate their opinions based on the algorithm that
(05:51):
they see on X and it's just complete horseshit. Like
I don't believe that people that go to that bas
B sketball game left being like, you know what, that
was a race war like basketball, Like you.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Know, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I it's crazy and I'm not the biggest WNBA fan.
I'm not claiming to have WNBA bona fides or like
watching for years or like going ten deep on all
the rosters. So people like Parkins, I don't give a
shit about your WNBA takes.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That's fine. I just know sports and narratives that is.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
A good thing for business, and people taking their online
commentary that is designed to divide us and then making
it actually like inform their sports opinions on television when
they are multi millionaire former professional athletes. They don't even
realize what they're doing, but it's just very embarrassing if
(06:51):
I really do find it embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Sorry to interrupt this great video, but please remember to
like and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Thank you. Now back to the video. Yeah, it's my take.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
My take on Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees from the
beginning is the league was growing, but she's Taylor Swift
and tennis shoes. She's not doesn't have to be the
best player in the league. Taylor Swift doesn't have the
best voice. Adele does like like she doesn't have the
best voice. There's something, there's some visceral connection between young women,
(07:25):
middle aged women and Taylor Swift that I can't explain.
I'm usually good at listening to music or watching sports
and going that's a superstar. I didn't see it with
Taylor Swift. There's been Lady Gaga I connected.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
There been.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
There have been a lot of artists Adele I heard. Yeah,
when I heard Katy Perry, I was but like Adele.
When I heard Adele, I was like, holy shit, what
is that? That's crazy? Lady gagat did that to me.
I remember Garth Brooks years and years ago, hearing him
and going it was like New Country. It wasn't like
you know, old madal My Porch. It was like cool country.
(08:02):
And I'm like Shanaiah Twain. I'm usually pretty good at
spotting stuff and going bang the Taylor swift up. I
can't even explain it. Now, she's got she got a
nice voice, she's really smart. But I can't explain it.
Caitlin Clark's not that hard to explain. Holy shit, she's
taking shots. Yeah, of course some NBA players wouldn't take.
(08:23):
Of course, I said, she's Steph Curry plus Jason Kidd.
The sixty foot passes, the thirty foot bombs, You're like
half the NBA would not make those plays. She's a
comet because it doesn't look like anything else.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Of course, if a player in five years started dunking
like Anthony Edwards, like, we'd be like, oh my god,
some it's believable because we haven't seen it in the
in the w NBA. Right, So yeah, I think that
part of it is also very obvious. She's the Steph
(08:58):
curryization of basketball has hit women's basketball in a way
and at a moment. And you and I have talked
about this months ago. Now, Like listen, part of this
is ESPN, which the world is changing, Cable is changing. Fine,
it is still the behemoth of sports television. They promote
(09:20):
the shit out of it. Yeah that helps, Like real
talented analysts, real talented broadcasters, real they're not on ESPN
News like they're in good time slots on good networks
on ABC on ESPN in prime time on weeknights with
(09:41):
a real pregame show and a real postgame show and
a real play by play guy.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And they do a good job on college hoops, and
so they think they're invested in it, and it's a
cyclical thing, and they hit this phenomenon like the fact
that that game that was a blowout outrated Yankees red Sox.
That matters, like that that matters.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And so I just yeah, I mean all the respect
in the world to her talent, all the respect in
the world to like people who have been WNBA fans
for forever and have been like now get to say
I told you so, But I just I wish our
media colleagues realized a little bit better that they were
(10:25):
being played by the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Because they're all athletes. They can't possibly be offended by
that foul. They can't.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
It's it's impossible that a bunch of football players are
were so offended by that foul that they had to
make this big of a deal out of it. So
I just eventually they'll need to talk about the basketball.
And I think for some people it's just easier to
culture war everything, and I think it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Okay, I want to I want to bring this up.
We can close on this because I saw this today.
It's fascinating. So a university professor in finance looked up
the value of Caitlin Clark for the WNBA. This is insane.
So this year, last season in the WNBA, Caitlin Clark
(11:24):
was twenty six and a half percent of all economic
activity as a rookie on the worst team in the
league when she entered it. So now she has an
eight year, one hundred and twenty eight million dollar deal
with Nike, so you know she's she's going to eat
merchandise in the league. Went up off a rookie from
(11:48):
a Midwest based school on the worst team in the
league two hundred and thirty four percent. But here was
the one that struck me so before she got there,
the Indiana fever, the valuation of the franchise was ninety million.
Remember they play a short season. It's not like the
NBA where it lasts like six months after playing what
(12:10):
forty games. The valuation of that team now is three
hundred and forty million dollars.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
She is almost.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
That's what NBA teams were selling for ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
She has called usual the valuation. And I was talking.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I was with a group of friends tonight at dinner,
and people that didn't know the WNBA were like, asking, well,
why what.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Does she do?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
And we said, well, she makes passes and take shots
that nobody else in the sport does, so she's a
bit of a It's like when Tiger Woods came on
the tour, Like he drove it further, He's long, putting
was better. He looked like a football player in the
red shirts. Like he just was different than every other
golfer you grew up with, and people like unique and different. Here,
(13:00):
my question to you is there's still no other Like
somebody said at the party, well there'd be another Caitlin Clark,
and I'm like, well there's not another Steph Curry. Like
there's guys that can shoot threes'. I don't think it's
a game, you duplicate and I listen. Let's just be honest.
There are more great male athletes in the world than
female athletes. There is no second Steph Curry. There is
(13:23):
no other player that plays like that.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
My take is she could be a billion dollar athlete.
Are you.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Are you surprised by it? Like when I see these numbers,
I'm like, oh, this is Tiger and the Tour. This
doesn't this isn't even Jordan, this is totally different.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Well, I think when you look at basketball, there are
two real kind of like ultimate show type of athletes
that you see, meaning like must see television. And it's
the supreme vertical athlete, which think like young On or
kind of like Anthony Edwards now Dominique. Yeah yeah, like
(14:04):
the guy that does stuff in the air that is
unlike anything you see anywhere else, doctor j And then
the second piece of it is just unbelievable shot making.
Those are the two things. Those are the two things
that like really bring eyes to television. To take it
a step further, there are two types of basketball players
(14:25):
that I think are far and away the most winning
impact in the current game of basketball. It's the big,
strong playmaker. Think Lebron Luka Jokic, and it's the indomitable shooter,
which there's really only been Steph. I think those two
types of players are the players that give you the
(14:46):
best chances to win basketball games in the modern in
the modern world. Now, what makes it fascinating to me
because that's what Caitlyn Clark is. She's a different type
of player, and she can do a lot of different
types of things, but she's essentially bringing a Steph Curry
like basketball impact to the WNBA. It's really this simple.
If you can shoot the way that she shoots, so
(15:06):
the way step shoots, and you can perpetually be in
motion running around, inevitably there is an overreaction to your
shooting ability. And we see this all the time with Kaitlyn,
just like you're gonna see you're gonna see Aliah Boston
get NonStop easy buckets in the mid range or rolling
to the basket, because every time she sets a screen
(15:28):
for Caitlin, her defender is stepping up to guard Caitlin
because as she comes off of that screen, if you're
not there, she's gonna shoot it and she's gonna make it.
And so there's a reaction that invert spacing in brings
a four on three because you bring multiple defenders away
from the rim, there's a four on three with a
(15:48):
vacated paint and because of that, there's a lot of
easy opportunities to score there. Like that's the thing with
Steph Curry, Like Steph Curry is not the same shot
maker that he was four years ago in twenty twenty one,
but just the simple threat of him running around gives
the Warriors a chance to score. And that's the thing,
Like Caitlyn hasn't even really started hitting shots yet this
year the way that she's capable of, but everyone knows
(16:10):
she can and they guard her in that fashion. And
so to me, it's kind of like a proof of
concept in that if you can shoot and you can
run around the way that Steph does, and you can
strike fear into a defense in that way, the trickle
down effects with the way that defenses guard you just
make everything so much easier for her. And like you
could argue she's already the best offensive engine in the
(16:32):
WNBA and she's literally a second year player and like,
and she still has so much room to improve, Like
she still struggles with ball pressure, she still turns them.
She turned the ball over too much against the Liberty
the other night. She still has a little bit of
an issue where she kind of cross fires across her face,
which makes it so she can only shoot going left.
She needs to build it out so that she can
shoot running to her right as well. But like, judging
(16:54):
by her psycho competitive attitude, she's probably going to figure
that stuff out in the next year or two and
then she'll be the best player in the league. And
so like to me, it's just she fits the mold
of one of the most impactful types of basketball players
you can be today, which is the deadly movement shooter.
If you're a deadly movement shooter, it just opens up
so many things for an offense. And honestly, I just
(17:17):
think I think she's must see television Colin. I've watched
all four of her games, and I'm in my busy season,
Like you think i'd be taking a break. My wife
said to me the other day, She's like, you're watching
more basketball, and like, it's Kitlyn Clark, We're watching more basketball.
Come over here, let's watch this. Like she's incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Nothing says summer like long days, clutch plays and firing
off a few bets on a game, all of it
with Draftking sports took my favorite seasons heating up. So
do the bats and Draftking sports Book cat. You cover
home run props, live betting odds, boosts, whether you're chasing
dingers or jumping in mid game, there's always action to
be had. So if you've never bet on baseball before,
it's really really easy. You just pick a guy, hit
(17:55):
a home run, hammer some live odds mid game, or
just ride with your squad and hopefully the best. No spreadsheets,
just vibes. So here's something special for first timers. You
may have heard this before. New Draft Kings customers. All
you have to do is bet five bucks. That's it,
and you'll get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus
bets instantly. So you just download the DraftKings sports Book app.
You know how to do that in ninety seconds, and
(18:16):
just use my code. It's Colin co l i N.
That's code Colin co l i N. That'll get you
one hundred and fifty bucks. If you're a new customer
betting just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
Yours gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler in New
York called eight seven seven eight hope and wire text
Hope and Y four six seven three six nine in Connecticut.
Help is available for problem gambling called eight eight eight
seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG
dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino
in Resorting, Kansas twenty one on over agent Eligibility varies
by jurisdiction, Void and Ontario New customers only. Bonus bets
(18:50):
expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance. Four
additional terms and responsible gaming resources see DKNNG dot co.
Slash audio.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
She doesn't know is get the consistent great star whistle.
She I mean, there's I think they're still kind of
figuring out how to officiate her right, like like when
you're when you know, I've said this for years. When
I covered Shack and to Shack, Shack got fouled more
than anybody I've ever seen. I mean, it was insane.
You just people bounced off Shack Jokics feeling Yokics complains
(19:27):
constantly like people are bouncing off me. She doesn't quite
get as favorable a whistle as you think, so I.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I think neither's step two. That's the funny part.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Well, And I think I will give the w NBA credit.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
They they just didn't understand the tsunami ever popularity, Like
they didn't get the schedule. Uh, and you don't know
what you don't know. They've done a much better job
to I mean, all her games are on television. Every
time I turn on a WA every time I see
a promote promotion for the wi NBA, it's Caitlin Clark,
so they're there. But I do think there's a process on.
(20:05):
You know, you're an official. You don't want to give
her too favorable a whistle because the players in the
league will resent her to some degree.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
She's getting all this attention and I don't.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
And I will say this, I've defended the w NBA
with this. Baseball and the WNBA feel ignored. The NFL
and the NBA in college football, they get a lot
of press, and baseball always feels like, hey, we're America's pastime,
so they're very insular, sometimes very provincial. And the WNBA, similarly,
(20:33):
you don't pay attention to us. So there's part of it,
like I get like they sort of resent this one player,
nobody talks WNBA.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
They do, and it's all her.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
You know. I remember when Tiger was eighteen, nineteen, twenty
years old coming out of the tour, there were a
lot of people in golf that were like, could you
guys show, could you talk in your sportscast about anybody
other than Tiger Woods?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
So she's not. Bryce Harper came into baseball.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
He fought with an own teammate in the dugout because
it was like, Oh, everybody wants to talk to so.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I do defend the WNBA.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Is that I get if nobody paid attention to you
for twenty six years and now they do, and they
feign interest in the rest of the league. What we
all care about Caitlin. So the animosity built up by players,
I give it a little bit of a pass. You know.
I think people are spending too much time on race.
(21:26):
You know, it is what it is. There's a million platforms,
a million opinions, But I don't know. My take is
there's still in the adjustment period with Caitlin. How to market,
how to promote, how to officiate, how to defend, And
it's just fluid. That's what it feels like to me.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
I think that like when I see the complaining, like
I saw some players complain and some members of the
media complain that she was on TV so much, and
let's just take us out, take fairness and just put
it to the side for a minute, like even with
Nike and giving Caitlin a shoot like set that aside
a minute and just focus on her being on television. Okay,
(22:04):
her being on television brought my eyes to it. I
didn't watch the WNBA. I have grown to really enjoy
watching WNBA basketball even when she's not on and they're
like the Nafista Collier became one of my favorite basketball
players watching her in the finals run last year. And
what brought me to the television was Caitlin. So like,
(22:24):
let's say that the league came out there like every
Caitlyn Clark games on national television, like that's just what
we're gonna do. Deal with it. That would be genius,
because the best way you can market the other WNBA
players is to have them play against Kitland Clark because
we'll all be watching. Okay, well, no one's covering the
rest of the league, Okay, but if you put Caitlin
on television and you get more people to watch. It
(22:46):
will create more WNBA fans, And we live in the
most colin I started making NBA content out of my
guest bedroom. Okay, you create a bunch of WNBA fans,
passionate members of the media will originate from that map,
and we'll cover the league better, and overall, the league
will gain in popularity and gain an impact, and it
will become a momentous thing that carries forward and actually
(23:09):
does shine a big flashlight on the rest of the WNBA.
Caitlin Clark is the vehicle with which to microwave that,
to accelerate it, and to move it into a fast
track towards what could be a bright future for the WNBA.
It's great basketball. It's genuinely great basketball. She's the best
vehicle with which to elevate the sport. I think anything
(23:33):
they can do to put her on TV and promote
her is the best thing they could do for the sport.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, it's Connor McGregor UFC. You know, you knew it existed.
You'd seen fights. You started buying pay per view cards
and sitting through two and a half hours to get
to his fight, and then all of a sudden you
found yourself a year later, hooked on two other fighters
because Dana White would put the second most popular.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Fighter in the undercard.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Exactly, it's all of a sudden, it's John Jones into
Connor McGregor and then they So it's just basic marketing.
And I've said before, I do think the WNBA women's
basketball and I'd said this years ago on FS one,
probably five years ago. The sport was getting better. The
women were, you know, several generations of women were encouraged
(24:16):
to play basketball and to be athletes, and nutritionists came
into the sport and better trainers. There was money in
the league, so they had better training and the players
were getting better. But it takes this, Listen, it took
Magic and Bird in the NBA to take a league
that there were some financial problems. So it's not like
a gender issue, it's a I mean, I think Connor
(24:39):
McGregor's erosion as a fighter has hurt UFC. It doesn't
feel as urgent. And that's and that's already established and
so and we all know that Michael Jordan left once
Magic Bird and Michael had driven the league up. Michael left,
the ratings dropped fifty percent.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So this stuff. Outside of the NFL.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
It's all cyclical, it's all market based, it's all star based,
and it's just a WNBA. You know, was waiting for
its first Tiger, and golf's probably had four in my life,
you know, Jack Nicholson, Arnold Palmer, Tiger. I think Rory's
got a little bit of it, Phil Micholson. So the
(25:19):
history of golf, you know, if you modern history is
not like five guys that have done it. So there's
no reason to be defensive about it. It just it's
all these leagues. They all eventually, I mean, look at boxing.
Allie took it from whatever it was to the next level.
Then there were Sugar, Ray Leonard and Hagler. But when
(25:40):
Larry Holmes arrived, nobody wanted to watch Larry Holmes. It
took an old George Forman.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It's selling a.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Grill that you bake chicken on or cook chick it
on to I mean literally to get the casual back
into boxing. Was George Foreman's second tour. So this is
the way sports works outside of football.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
The cyclical thing is so fat saying, because that's literally
what the NBA is about to go through. Lebron and
Steph won eight titles in eleven years, and now there's
not really a big name yet. Now you could argue
that the parody might prevent the rise of a star,
and that's a separate conversation for another day, but it
is really fascinating. We're in one of those cycles right
now with the NBA. The old guard's going out, there's
a new card coming up.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Years and years ago, this may have been fifteen years ago.
Sports fans, I think, are more savvy today than ever,
and a lot of it's just because of the explosion
of social media and they can you can learn things
just watching TikTok. I mean, I use the TikTok store
every day. And by the way, it's never let me down.
I buy power bars, I buy workout gear. It's never
(26:40):
let me down. The TikTok store is completely undervalued.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
You think that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, the first time I use that, I'm like a
sketchy I'm probably getting robbed. It's twenty four dollars. It's fantastic,
And everything I buy in that TikTok store is amazing.
That's not an ad I just I bought power bars today. So,
but I was thinking years I did a topic where
I said, this is when I would take calls. I
was only doing a radio show. I said, you guys
(27:05):
don't understand Madonna was in her prime. I said, it's
much more well known than Derek Jeter in his prime.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's not close. One's a global star. I got thirty
calls in a row. No way, Derek.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I'm like Derek. The brand of the Yankees is bigger
than Derek Jeter. Like Derek Jeter is not the if
he played in Kansas City, he'd just be an all star.
Sports fans they struggle sometimes with like recognizing that nobody
knows who Jalen Hurts is out of America unless you're
a sports fan. Your sister who doesn't love sports doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Who Jalen Hurts is.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Even after the Super Bowl, she's heard of maybe the
Tush push, but that's about it. And I was thinking
about this, how many NBA players, and I know Caitlin
Clark is an athlete, but how she's like beyond that
now she kind of transcends sports. She's like, it's racial,
it's political, it's polarizing, it's it's a lot of things. Yes,
(28:00):
how many NBA players are more famous than Caitlin Clark,
Lebron's Steph Absolutely, maybe Durant.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
That's what I put.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I said, I wrote down k D maybe in one
year out of women's basketball for a horrible team when
she arrived. Outside of Lebron and Steph, she is the
most well known basketball player currently playing in the United States.
Oh yes, And I don't think that's close.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Like I I think I might have said this to
you last year that I thought the most famous basketball
player under thirty was Caitlin Clark. And it's like you said,
I don't think it's particularly close. Like when the she
is demonstrably and inarguably more famous than all of this
(28:57):
generation's NBA stars. She just is, like it it really
Lebron is, I don't know, probably one of the twenty
most famous people in the world. At a secondary level,
there is Steph, And at a far different level, there
is Durant. And the next basketball person, like active basketball person,
(29:22):
is Caitlin Clark.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Like the the.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
It's I don't even I don't think that's a hot take.
I don't think that's controversial. I think that's just obvious.
And I think that it is awesome for the sport
and I think that it is awesome for sports fans,
and it it is what I think some people need
to be. Okay, like this is this is apples and oranges,
(29:52):
but not exactly and this is not a fair comparison.
But just the audience is smart, they'll figure it out.
I think it's probable that Lonzo I'm sorry that LaMelo
Ball is more famous than Tyrese Halliburton. No one with
a brain thinks he's better than Tyrese Halliburton, but he
(30:13):
is my famous. You agree, So I think sometimes like
die Hard WNBA or women's basketball fans conflate the discussion
about fame and popularity with a ranking of players quality.
Now Kate Clark is to me, I mean, she was
first team All WNBA last year. She has a legitimate
(30:35):
argument that she's a top five player in the league,
and before this injury, probably was going to make a
real case to win League MVP this year. But if
someone's like, hey, I watch I have WNBA League pass.
I watched the whole league, guy have for years. I
think she is currently the seventh best player in the league,
I'd listened to him like, okay, maybe, like you know,
(30:56):
the Brianna Stewart, Asia Wilson, like whomever. But that's not
the discussion that now. It is also important that your
fame not lap your ability. Again, not to like I'm
just thinking because we're talking about women's sports. An example
of that to me would be like this make me
(31:17):
feel old. But on a corner, Cova, Remember so she
was at a time the most famous women's centnis player,
and I think she was during a lot of that
time not one of the twenty best. She you know her,
she was more famous, far more famous than she was successful.
But it's quite often that your fame lags your ability,
(31:40):
as I think happens to Nikola Jokic, you know, as
an example. And it is also often that your fame,
you know, is a few steps ahead of your ability
when it is a super nova moment, is when your
fame when you are the most famous and you're the best,
like that happ that That was bron with the NBA.
(32:04):
Obviously Jordan Kobe, you know, at least was close to
the best, if not the best, for a brief period,
and it's what I is going to happen, I believe
with Caitlin Clark, because I do think she will have
a period where she is clearly the best player in
the league. And again, it could happen sooner than later,
but it's it is so great for the sport because
(32:28):
it she is someone that people show up to the
party because of her. And where I give the evolution
of the WNBA and women's basketball credit is I think
people show up to the party, whether it's for the
women's NCAA tournament or the WNBA, and they're like, Oh,
this party's pretty good.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
There's a level of physicality in this sport that isn't
necessarily in the NBA anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Oh it's always been shippier because they're not vertical, so
they're bringing it into each other and it's a very
physical league, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
And so I think that if you have a good
product and your biggest hurdle is getting people to sample
the product, she's a godsend. There's no denying it. And
again there's obviously there's a lot of complicated components to it.
(33:23):
But just because something has complicated components doesn't mean every
discussion about it has to be complicated. And you know,
you can just be like, she is a super nova
fame level of fame with one of a kind talent,
and it is game changing for the entire league that
she's at.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Sorry to interrupt this great video, but please remember to
like and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Thank you. Now back to the video.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Well, and also, she had a rivalry with a star
college player in college, so we have a visceral connection,
which college basketball no longer gives you. It's what college
football gives you all the time. Where you know JJ McCarthy,
you're like, oh, I mean you see all these Buckeyes
in Michigan Wolverines.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
What I think, J McCarthy, I think Michigan. Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Caitlin Clark obviously a huge story in the controversy around it,
and I was thinking about I was pretty hard on
than the WNBA when Caitlin Clark came in, and I thought, guys,
you can't open up with a New York Liberty and
the Connecticut Sun. You want to groove her into some wins,
because remember she went from the final four into camp
into playing and the WNBA they probably knew she would
(34:36):
be good, they didn't think she'd quite be this good. Sure,
but it's getting to be a little bit like MJ
is that And they've done a better job this year.
They had an easier schedule. They've put the games on television,
so the WNBA took a lot of heat, a lot
of heat, and Val Ackerman, the Commissioner's like, Okay, we
(34:56):
got ourselves a complete Taylor Swift and tennis shoe rock
star and they've done a much better job this year.
The officiating is not great, but the league's now just
starting to make real money now, right, Like, so it's
the officials maybe the last part, you know, it's well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I wonder with it. And I don't know, I'm not
educated enough on this about what the hierarchy of officiating is.
But obviously the best basketball officials in the world, or
the NBA officiate in the NBA, right that, let's just
I shouldn't say the world, just let's just do the US.
I assume the second best, like men's college basketball. Well yeah,
(35:35):
I would imagine the third best might be women's college
basketball because up until recently that was a far bigger
industry than the WNBA, like so has the And again
I am just speculating here, but is the WNBA simply
not picking from the you know, the are the people
who are the best officials are like, well, it's way
(35:57):
better jobs in officiating that I can get, so they
assume that's going to be the case. They flew commercial
airlines a year ago, and yeah, I think some st
the NBA moved out of that in like the eighties,
so it's like it's it's just a different ballgame. But
but I was thinking about this.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Most of the time, the media gets it right when
it predicts an all time star. In fact, I would argue,
and I think people listening to this would push back
that we undersold Tiger. Nobody thought Tiger was going to
have the lowest scoring average ever, was going to have
the tied for the most career wins ever, has the
(36:39):
greatest earnings ever. Nobody, not even Nike, would have.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Guessed that, and within five years have the scoring record
at all four majors. Dude, the Tiger slam. Yeah, yeah, no, no, okay,
you're right, Tiger was Tiger Lebron. I would argue. All
the all time grades that turned into all time grades
also actually kind of exceeded expectation.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Sorry to interrupt this great video, but please remember to
like and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Thank you. Now back to the video.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Most of the time I think Bryce Harper at sixteen
was considered arguably the baseball prospect ever. He's turned out
eight time All Star, two time National League MVP, three
hundred and forty home runs plus that is a If
you would have said that when he was sixteen on
sports illstrat he's gonna be an eight time All Star,
two time MVP, you'd be like, yeah, for the best
(37:32):
prospect ever. That that's that's that's in that elite class work.
But I think Caitlin, Clark, Lebron and MJ I think
they're better. And I thought Caitlin was gonna be good.
But Gino Arima, Yucom's coach came out and said, and
this guy knows basketball. He's the best recruiter in the
history of the sport. He's like, this idea is she's
(37:53):
gonna walk into the WNB.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
But it was so here's the thing. All the Yukon
folks had, like the former the legendary Yukon players who
were then in media, and then Gino, they all kind of,
in my opinion, had a bias of man. This was
(38:16):
supposed to be what everyone was saying about Paige Beckers
a year ago, but Paige had blown out her knee
and she missed time and that and all of that,
and so they I think that they and they also
underestimated what a badass Clark was going to be. And
I think they also looked at it and said, well,
she's great and going to be great, but she's not
(38:40):
better than Brianna Stewart or Diana Torazzi, and they you know,
if they had a transition, she will do. And the
answer is she's a She is already one of the
four best players in the league. She is already uh
an absolute and I say this in the kindest words,
(39:03):
an asshole on the court, like the way you kind
of need to don't need to be. But it's something
people historically like in their athletes, like a trash Larry Bird,
Michael Jordan, a trash talker, you know, hard ass. And
she is already impacting winning. I think she has the
(39:23):
best per game plus minus in the league of everyone
that's not on the New York Liberty.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Think about this people ten years ago. So the quality
of WNBA play in the last ten years has improved
more than any league anywhere. The players are the nutrition's better,
the strength is better. You go YouTube and WNBA game
ten years ago, they did not pass like this. Kandas
Parker ten years ago led the league in assists at five.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
And a half a game a game.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Not only is Caitlin park the best shooter, the best guard,
the most infl Benchel, she's also dealing nine assists per game.
So what she's done is she's really changed the tempo.
She's doubling these all time assist numbers or close to it,
and giving you threes and shooting nine feet beyond the arc. So,
(40:16):
I mean, as much as I liked her and I
thought she would be really good, I remember saying on
the air, she's gonna be She's gonna be really good,
top ten player, really fast, I didn't think she'd beat this.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
No, I listen she I agree with you that I
do think she is and in contributing to winning exceeding expectations,
I also think that and maybe eventually we'll get there.
But there so much in my I don't know what
you said on the air about this today because I
(40:47):
missed it, but so much of the social media pearl
clutching of basically we need to like protet Caitlin Clark, I.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Just think it's so.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I think it's patron, and I also think it fails
to recognize this is, in my opinion, the best case
scenario for the league. The fact that she is has
this swagger that there and Brew made this point, and
(41:19):
I thought it was a really good one. The fact
that yesterday's altercasions primarily happened with Caitlin against other white
players was actually a really nice thing because it removed
any of the bullshit like, oh the are the black
players don't like it? No, you know who doesn't like
Caitlyn Clark, most of her opponents, you know who historically
(41:43):
is not that popular in sports. The young, awesome, swaggery,
trash talking player. That player usually has allies on their
team and their fans.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Larry Bird got choked by j everybody and so and
so that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Here's another thing that's awesome. This is only gonna make
Caitlin better and tougher and strong. Guess that's great. The
fact that it is hard and that like because the idea,
because some of Caitlyn's like, there's a real lunatic fringe
on the internet about this conversation, and I hate doing
in life. I don't actually really think both sides are
(42:25):
a problem. Very often in the Caitlin Clark thing, it
is both sides. It is people on both ends of
the spectrum are out of their minds, and the biggest
Caitlyn fans are like the league. This is the league's
cash cow. And if they if they're not suspending these
other players, she could get hurt. Like, give me a break.
It was a light shove. She fell down. She's gonna
(42:46):
be fine. The Fever are gonna be in big games
for a long time. It is she is sustainably drawing eyeballs,
and I do think it is Notewhile people pointed out correctly,
oh man, when she was out the ratings dropped. The
other piece of this is the ratings dropped, but we're
(43:10):
still higher than pre Caitlin Clark WNBA, which means while yes,
some people are just showing up for her, some people
showed up for her, and we're like, oh, I like basketball,
and this is a pretty good product all stick around,
even if she's not there. At least some people did.
It's the best thing imaginable for the league. It's the
best thing imaginable for her, and it is for us,
(43:32):
you know here in hockey ended last night. Basketball probably
ends tomorrow in the NBA. It'll be nice to have
like a captivating sports story for the summer other than baseball,
so I'm excited about it.
Host
Colin Cowherd
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.