March 18, 2025 • 43 mins
Colin’s joined by legendary sportswriter and New York Times best-selling author Ian O’Conner!
They start with how Rick Pitino was able to take over at St. John’s and turning the program into one of the best in the country, and why he’s one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all-time (4:00).
They pivot to Duke and why the team was able to retain its status as a top college basketball program under Jon Scheyer after legendary coach Mike Krzyzewski retired, and what makes Scheyer such an effective coach (7:15).
They move to the NBA and discuss why the Knicks were able to build their best team in years but still needing to make moves to get over the hump and win a title, and whether coach Tom Thibodeau can survive an early round playoff exit (11:45).
They try to decipher the lack of clarity surrounding the future of Aaron Rodgers, whether he’ll retire if the Vikings decide not to sign him, and whether the Giants or Steelers would be the better backup plan (23:00).
They discuss UConn basketball taking a step back this year under Dan Hurley, whether it was as ugly behind the scenes as it was on the court and why Hurley was able to overcome some serious roster deficiencies (28:00). They also debate where the 2024 UConn national championship team ranks amongst the all time greatest college basketball teams (33:00).
They talk about what’s been missing from college basketball in recent years and the NIL has become a life preserver for the sport (37:45).
They recap the Dodgers recent moves to build an all-star team and Colin asks whether the Steinbrenner family has made missteps that have led the Yankees to fall behind LA despite making more money (44:30).
Finally, they discuss the decline of the art of the sports column and why Ian gravitated towards writing books (51:30).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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One of my favorite people in the media. He has
New York Times best selling books on Aaron Rodgers, Derek Jeter,
and Bill Belichick. Pretty impressive resume. Has got a new
one coming out with Dan Hurley, which is fascinating because
(01:08):
Hurley and Yukon have had a spirited and disappointing season.
And the book is coming out in September called Never
Stop Life, Leadership and What it Takes to Be Great,
co written with Dan Hurley. I want to get to
that in a second. I want to start with Rick
Batino and Saint John's. So, for the uninitiated, Saint John's
is in Queens, one of the five boroughs. Used to
(01:29):
be in Brooklyn. Actually a long time ago Catholic university
between the airports is how I remember being described to
me one time. And it was in the Big East,
which is the greatest basketball conference, the most personality filled
basketball conference at its best in the history, between players
and coaches, and so Louis carnaseca Ages leaves, it's not
(01:52):
the same university many people tried. Then one of the
great coaches of all time, Rick Batino and New Yorker
gets the job.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So let's start with that.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I couldn't say the last time Duke and Saint John's
both had a chance to win the title in the
same tournament. So it's a fascinating tournament. But when Rick
took the job, I mean I said this the other day.
You know, his moral compass has sometimes flipped around. But
in terms of basketball iq EQ and program building, he
is He is parcels plus Urban Meyer. You know, he
(02:22):
is just one of these guys that can do a
Jim Harbaugh. What is the secret sauce?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You know? Rick?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
What is his secret sauce? What's different between Rick and
so many other coaches that go to these programs? I
own a Saint John's and just make it work quickly.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Great question, And I think, first of all, I think
the two best coaches in the history of the sport
are John Wooden and Mike Sizhevsky. So if you look
at their bodies of work, yeah, I think they're the
top two. But I also believe Rick Patino is just
as good as they were. I think that he's as
good as any college basketball coach ever. And it's just
the ferocity with which he gets his kids to play defense.
(03:05):
And it really works at Saint John's, and of course
it worked at Louisville, it worked at Kentucky and to Providence.
But he's such a New Yorker and that is such
a New York style of play on the playgrounds that
it really translates. And this has been a very likable
team the city has fallen in love with Saint John's. Now,
when I started my career, Saint John's would take the
(03:26):
back page of the tabloids away from the Knicks, and
so it's been a long time since that was possible. Now.
Of course, the tabloids aren't what they used to be
in New York or newspapers anywhere, of course, but Saint
John's is now a team that the city has embraced.
And Patino that style of played. He did it even
with the mix, pressing, defense, attention to detail, just playing
(03:51):
with that ferocity. And yeah, I don't know if I've
ever seen a coach get his kids consistently to play
any harder than Rick Patino's teams everywhere he's been, including
in the NBA outside of the Celtics. But yeah, he's
an amazing when it comes to x's and o's and
motivation and recruiting, He's an amazing coach, There's no question
about it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So it is very unique I have them making the
Final four. They don't shoot threes particularly well, but either
does half ninety percent of the field. I mean, you
see San Diego's rare BYU is rare. Saint John's can't
shoot threes, Houston's not great at it, Michigan State can't.
I mean I watched Michigan Michigan State play a couple
of weeks ago, and Michigan State ends up scoring in
(04:33):
the eighties. I don't know how, but they get there.
So I don't really use that as a deficit. I
think Saint John's can muscle and defend and coach its
way to the final four. But I'll go being back
to my an initial point. You know Duke basketball because
of the book on Coach k which I strongly recommend
if you've never read it, it is I think it's.
In my opinion, I think it's your best book, and.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I've read all of them. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Duke is the most talented team Coach K leaves. And
usually it almost always works this way. You give it
to a popular assistant coach and he just doesn't have
the gravitas or the weight to hold this massive brand afloat.
(05:17):
But Duke this year feels like to me, the odds
on favorite, like if they want, it's the only team
you wouldn't even ask how you'd go. Okay, Cooper flag,
are you surprised by Coach k leaves, and yet Duke
remains vibrant.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
No, I'm not surprised, Colin. I think Duke does recruit
itself to some degree. But John Schier's recruiting has been
unbelievable since coach k left. And you start with that.
Of course, that's the lifeblood of college basketball in all
college sports, and he's been terrific at that. And he's
just a really good coach too, in terms of ex's
and o's. But if you look at that team right now,
(05:56):
it's almost a perfect college basketball team. They've got the
big man who's seven to two with an incredible wingspan.
He's a top ten, top fifteen NBA pick. You've got
a forward who's a top fifteen on one side. On
the other side, you've got one of the best freshmen
we've ever seen in college basketball, who's the number one pick,
assuming he's healthy and he looks like he's going to play.
(06:18):
And in the backcourt you've got two guys who are six'
five at. Guard, now, yeah maybe the one question mark
you have against a team that has, smaller quicker, guards
maybe that's a little bit of an. Issue but, size,
skill the, coaching the, pedigree everything is in place For
duke to win the national. CHAMPIONSHIP i actually don't think they,
(06:39):
will BUT i certainly wouldn't be surprised if they, do
because they probably do have the best. TEAM i actually
Think houston is going to win the national. Title and
it's a bit of a strange. REASON i just Think
Kelvin sampson has been such a good coach for so
long it seems to me that he's going to get
one before he. Retires and you, look, REALLY i know
that's kind of a funny, reason but if you look
(07:01):
at the way they, defend they have, guards AND i
just think at some point he's going to pick one.
Off John shire is very worthy coach of winning a
national telegraphy recall from my, Book COACH k wanted him
to be the. Coach the university actually Wanted Tommy amacker
to be the next head, coach But COACH k sort
of got his way on that, one and, frankly you
(07:23):
cannot argue with the. Results John shire is ben.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Tremendous, yeah for the, uninitiated, again for the people that
don't follow due closely or college, basketball what was? Boy
that must have been, tough remember reading about it in
your book you Have amaker And shire and you know
and here comes COACH. K eventually you know he's going
(07:46):
to make a. Choice what Is shire's, strength what's this
foundational piece that made him the? Choice and why you
Think COACH k eventually leaned to.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Him because he was in his. System it had been
a long time Since amiker had been an assistant At.
Duke of, course he was a very important player in
the development of that championship program Under COACH k and
has done a good job in The Ivy. League But
shire was. There shire was a great. Player he was
going to play of THE nba serious eye injury early
(08:18):
in what would have BEEN i think a pretty GOOD nba.
Career but the way he relates to. Kids i've had
just a couple of conversations with, him but been around
enough people who are in his world, consistently and he's
just a very relatable. Guy and SO i think the
fact that he was a, really really good player there
and the fact that he is he's got the right
(08:40):
personality to connect with. People he obviously has THE x
AND o background From COACH, k and you put it all,
together and, again it is a campus that does recruit
itself to some, degree and a program that does recruit
itself to some. Degree it's a pretty powerful. Combination SO
i said this the other day on the.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Show you, know OBVIOUSLY i was in The northeast for
ten and a half, years but one of the THINGS
i observed WHEN i was in the city a lot
or near it In connecticut is, that you, know there's
a lot Of yankee And met, fans and a lot
Of giant And jet, fans but everybody In New york
likes The.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Knicks it's just.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Every single FRIEND i had In New, york and many of,
them more than The yankees Or, giants Were nick fans.
First and, Again i'm old enough to remember The Walt,
Fraser Bill, Bradley Earl. Monroe, yet LIKE i go back
to the seventies when nobody. Won you, know The lakers
won a, title The warriors, did The Washington bullets, did The,
sonics The, blazers The, knicks and then there were the
(09:42):
Pat riley. Iterations BUT i always, Said, god If dolan
could get out of the, way this city loves its
team so. Much AND i think when the sphere got
built for two, Years dolan removed himself from the. FACILITY
i mean literally. Physically he was In vegas so often
and it allowed The knicks to really grow this really
(10:03):
strong basketball, group AND i think they've made very, patient
very sharp. MOVES i don't think kat is the, future
BUT i think he was the right move at the right.
Time but there was a moment Between tibbs And Josh
hart the other day And Mikhale bridges it was public
that he had gone To. Tibbs, hey we need to
play the starters. Less you, know young players don't get
(10:28):
a lot of work and minutes Under. Tibbs as great
as the brief journey has been With, tom it does feel,
like does it not Ian to get to the next,
level you need two. Moves Karl Anthony towns probably gets
replaced with a better defensive big or just like A,
kd a greater, player And tibbs may not be the.
(10:51):
Answer or is that me three thousand miles away Guessing.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
NO i think it's possible that's the. CASE i do
Think tibbs is good and not to win a championship
as a head. Coach they losing the second round again this.
YEAR i don't think he'll get replaced BECAUSE i think
he'll lose to a better. TEAM i think The celtics are,
better and surprisingly, ENOUGH i did not think The cavs
would be, better but they. Are they just are so
(11:16):
if they lose in the second, round to say The,
celtics defire the guy off that you're losing to a better.
Team The celtics have better. Players The knicks have improved
their rosters. Certainly AND i didn't Think Jalen. BRUNSON i
wasn't sure if he'd be this or could be the
second best player on a championship team when they acquired.
Him NOW i do think he could be one of
(11:37):
the top, two if not the best player on a championship.
Team he's an incredible, player AND i think a lot
of people In New york were surprised by. THAT i
think where The knicks are right now is it's kind
of funny Because jets fans have been complaining and complaining
About Woody, johnson the owner for a long. Time If
Woody johnson, hires we'll find out if he did the
right general manager And mouji and the right head coach
(11:58):
And Aaron. Glenn he's going to go away And jets
fans will never talk about. Him knicks fans are not
talking About Jim dollon and they haven't now for a
number of years because he hired the right general. Manager
AND i was a. Gamble Leon rose had never done this.
Job he was a very good age and he had
never been a general, manager and early ON i wasn't so.
Sure but turns out he knows what he's, doing And,
(12:20):
tims of, course everybody knew he knew what he was.
Doing he's proven that he could be a very valuable
piece of a coaching staff that won a championship In
boston Under Doc, rivers and so is. He it's almost
Like Buck showalter did all the dirty work on The
yankees in the mid nineties and then he got replaced
By Joe, tory And Joe tory then won a Flor World.
(12:41):
Series So i'm not saying that the Next knicks coach
is gonna win four titles in the next five years
after that, happens BUT i think that he's going to
get one more year after another second round, exit maybe
The knicks will surprise us and win that second round
matchup with say The. CELTICS i don't think that will,
happen BUT i do think you're right in terms of the,
(13:02):
roster it looks like they're still believe it or. Not
after all the moves they've made and what five number
one picks For bridges and then they made The cat
deal and They brunson deal was an incredible. One it
still looks like they need to make one more move
and Maybe kat is a part of that. Package but,
yeah right, now it's just they're in a tough way
(13:23):
because of The celtics being in their, way and now
The cavs have hurdled, them and they sure look like
they're for. Real.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
YEAH i think The hertenstein, move WHICH i think they
were kind of, trapped there's not much they could. DO
i thought he added some real toughness and rebounding that's
very hard to. Replace kat is a more gifted offensive,
player but he's not the toughest guy in the, league
and he's a poor. Defender hartenstein had this sort Of
New york, toughness just a fighter on the, glass and
it felt like he was just part almost felt, like you,
(13:53):
know he had That villanova. Feel he was just an
overachiever and a. Fighter AND i think sometimes in THE,
nba it's not what you want to, do it's what
you have to, do and they let them go TO
okc and you know it doesn't quite feel like the same.
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Speaker 2 (15:24):
Audio The Aaron rodgers thing has been interesting because he
wrote the book on, him so you know him pretty.
Well AND i didn't think HIS i don't think his football.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
He's.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Fine he's you, know somewhere between the thirteenth and sixteenth best.
Quarterback he's. FINE i don't think he's quite as committed
as the young great, ones AND i don't think he
moves like the young great. Ones he's. Smart but When
Aaron glenn came in and for the second time In aaron's,
career he was caught off guard a little by a
team saying, hey, thanks but no. Thanks according to reports
(16:02):
that you, Know aaron had flown across country meeting with,
him And Aaron glenn was, like we're gonna move on
and to me downgraded at. QUARTERBACK i, mean when you
write a book On, aaron you think you have a
feel or a vibe for. HIM i said this the other.
(16:22):
Day if The vikings say, no, THANKS i think he.
Retires when you look at how the season went and
now we're in this flux, period are you surprised or
could you have predicted it based on the over one
hundred people you talk to in the conversation With.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
AARON i Think i'm not surprised that HE i think
the overriding feeling right now is that he still wants
to play in maybe two. YEARS i had a friend
of his tell me two years a week, ago because
he kind of feels like this past Season colin was
a rehab, year and so if he has a good
(17:03):
twenty twenty, FIVE i really do expect him to try
to play in twenty. Six but we'll even play at,
All retirement is on the. Table THINK i don't think
The vikings are going to sign. Him that would be
the best case. Scenario but if You let's say you
put The vikings roster or The, steelers and The giants
(17:24):
had an equivalent talent base as The, vikings same, coaching same.
TALENT i actually think he picked The giants because he
does really like living in The New, York New jersey,
area despite the fact that The jets thing was effectively
a two year. DISASTER i do think if The giants
had A vikings, ROSTER i actually think he would pick The.
(17:45):
Giants he has respect for that. Organization they've had good.
Conversations i've talked to a couple people with The giants
who said they have no issues with him as a
locker room. Presence as a. Personality, ah they don't. Care
they think he's the best available quarterback and they won.
Him they've made a good. Offer IF i had to
put twenty bucks down, TODAY i think he'll be the
starting quarterback for The steelers BECAUSE i think he'd prefer The.
(18:08):
Vikings but The, STEELERS i, think really do want. Him
they've made that, clear And Mike tomlin gives him the
kind of coaching last Year. Colin i've been doing this
almost forty years in The New york. Market that is
one of the two or three worst coaching Jobs i've
ever seen in any sport In New. York and so
to go from that To Mike, tomlin If Mike tomlin
(18:30):
coached the twenty twenty Four, jets they would have gone
ten and. Seven i'm convinced of. That that was a
ten and seventeen that went five and twelve with horrific.
Coaching SO i think with The steelers and with the
playmakers they have now and roster and particularly the, COACHING
i Think aaron can go ten and, seven maybe eleven and,
(18:51):
six and get back in the. Playoffs and maybe that's
the way to end his. CAREER i think where The
giants are right now because they don't have that roster
that we're talking about early with The, vikings he's looking
at that, saying, geez DO i want to finish my
career going five and twelve for One New york team
and five and twelve for. Another have you looked at
The giants home? Schedule let me run these eight games by,
(19:15):
you and you tell me they're gonna play nine on
the road next year and eight at. Home you tell
me who The giants are beating from this? Crew, Dallas,
OKAY i think they can Beat. Dallas but then they're
playing at, Home, Philly, Washington Green, Bay Kansas, city The,
chargers The, vikings and the forty nine. Ers how many
of those games are they? Winning maybe two if they're,
lucky they go two and six at. Home then on
(19:38):
the road they're At, dallas they're At, Philly they're At,
Washington they're At, denver they're At. Detroit how many those
games are they? Winning SO i Think aaron is smart
enough to look at that and, say DO i really
want to go five and? Twelve even IF i played?
Better and even THOUGH i don't think The jet thing
is really going to hurt his, LEGACY i don't think
ten fifteen years from, now when he's already in The
hall Of fame as A, packer people are going to
(19:59):
be talking about his experience with The. Jets but if
he does that again with a second, TEAM i do
Think kle hurt his. Legacy so to, me if The
vikings aren't interested and they're going with McCarthy pretty much right,
AWAY i think The steelers make a lot of. SENSE
i Think tomlin is a built in insurance policy that
it won't be a. DISASTER i think he should do.
(20:20):
THAT i think he'll play. BETTER i think he'll make the,
playoffs and that's the way to go, out.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
All. RIGHT i want to go back to. Basketball Dan
hurley and The hurley. Family obviously they're, smart they're. Aggressive
they're sort of baked into our college basketball ideology and.
Culture over the course of my, life you, know the,
dad the, Coach Bobby dan the only Thing i've ever
(20:47):
worried About Dan, Hurley AND i think this is sort
of a problem that arises with great success and the
kind of personality types that often flourish in college which
are you, know they. Need they're very good with. Control Nick,
Saban Bobby, Knight Urban. Meyer they flourish with. Control that's
why they don't like professional. Football they lack they don't
(21:10):
have they can't get their arms quite around the. Program
you're dealing with, agents you're dealing with impulsive. Owners so
it's like the duality of. Life your greatest strength as
often becomes a. Burden AND i look At Dan hurley's
kind of treatment of the, officials and there's there's talk that,
he's you, know he's gotten more difficult in the athletic.
DEPARTMENT i see that he's co writing a book with
(21:32):
you instead of you know you're writing it. Is AND
i look at this From afar BECAUSE i like And
i've talked to, him AND i really like, him AND
i really Enjoy WHEN i was In, CONNECTICUT i became
very fond of The yukon, program AND i think one
of the great coaches of my time Is Jim, calhoun
who built a powerhouse in, Stores. Connecticut you've been around.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Him this?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Season was it as ugly close to the program as
it was from the outside starting in that was It Maui,
tournament you, know early in the, Season lovely And.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Howie but they recovered from, that and he did to some.
EXTENT i think he was wounded by some of the
criticism but later acknowledge that his behavior on the sideline
was too. Much it was over the. Top AND i
think he only has the one technical on the, mainland
as he said, recently and that was. It and he
did get caught Saying i'm the best coach in the bleeping.
(22:24):
Sport he didn't know the camera was on. Him of,
course he had the thing Of, creighton the two, rings two, Rings,
baldy AND i Think i'll know that one didn't bother
me so much because it Was Dollar Beer night At.
Creighton so you invited a guy From Jersey city to
Dollar Beer, night you cursed him out for two hours
and fifteen, minutes and then on his way off the
court following his, interview he got cursed out again and
(22:45):
he said some, things AND i didn't have a problem with.
That so BUT i think That yukon has been all
over the map with this. Season at, times they've looked
like a top ten. Team After, maui They Beacon, Zaga
texas And, baylor and once McNeely got hurt and missed eight,
games he's their best. Player he's going to be a lottery.
(23:06):
Pick just the season sort of went sideways a little.
Bit it's been inconsistent better of. Late they've won what
five of their last, six and of course lose To
creighton in The Big East. Semis but they're a. Team
i'll say This, colin they And DAN i actually think
has done a really really good coaching. Job roster construction
maybe not so. Much it's almost like he's overcome his
(23:28):
own construction of the. Roster and there are a lot
of holes with this, team and he's coached his way
around those holes and got them to a point Where,
okay they're an eight. SEED i think they'll Beat, oklahoma
AND i think they'll Scare florida in round two and
probably lose that. Game but if you told, me and
the way this season has, gone if you told me
they could Upset florida in round, TWO i would believe.
(23:49):
It if you told me they were going to lose
To oklahoma in round, ONE i would believe. It that's
the way this season is. Gone But i'll say, this
If i'm The, Gators i'd feel wronged a little, bit
like you're tell me after the season we've. Had as
a number one, Seed i'm Getting Dan hurley and The. Huskies,
yeah the team at certain points of this year they
played like a top ten team and there are two
(24:11):
time defending. CHAMPION i don't want them in the second
round as the number one. Seed, so, yeah it listened With.
Hurley it's always interesting behind the. Scenes one Thing COLIN
i think a lot of people don't realize. NATIONALLY i
think In connecticut they. Do it's behind the. Scenes he
has a holistic approach to coaching his. Kids they know
he loves.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Them.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Now that's not something he grew up with with his.
Dad with coaches in The Big east with his own
coach in The Big. East but he learned and the
fact that he got screened at during games and he
remembers how that. Felt people don't realize that in, games
it is rare when he ever screams at an individual. Player,
now in, timeouts he'll get on the, group he'll challenge.
(24:53):
Them you have to do that as a. Coach, halftime
behind the closed locker room, door he'll he'll challenge. Guys
but during a, game in front of a lot of
people watching ON tv and in the, arena he almost never
screams out of. Player and there are times When i'm
looking for him to do it because some egregious mistake
would be, made and he doesn't do. It SO i
(25:13):
give him a lot of credit for. That AND i
just don't think he gets any credit for that as.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Well, yeah, WELL i also think sometimes we, compare which
is of course The thief Of joy the thirty seven
and Three Yukon huskies that won the national. Title to,
me this is just my, opinion was the best college
basketball team from coaching to construction Since Billy donovan's two
time Champion Florida. Gators they could do. Everything they had
so much dexterity and, size the ability to defend the,
(25:40):
rim the, wing the. POINT i Thought Billy donovan's teams
that second year when he brought them all, back that
was a machine and they WERE i mean humiliating good.
TEAMS i Think yukon's the best Team i've seen since.
THEN i, mean all of those guys that went to THE,
nba From portland to Sant, tonio they've all been. Outstanding
(26:02):
SO i don't think. IT i think in TODAY'S, nil
when people cherry pick you and recruitings every man for,
HIMSELF i think we have to BE i, had Even
coach k had certain champions that didn't live up to
The Grant hill you, Know Bobby Hurley laytner level. TEAMS
i think over the course of, Time Dan hurley may
look back and, Think, JESUS i was a young, coach
(26:25):
that's the best Team i've ever. HAD i, mean you,
know college, basketball you can be. ENCYCLOPEDIC i thought last
year's team was. INSANE i really.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
DID i put last year's team right there with the
early Nineties vegas teams And duke, teams and those were machines,
Too even Though dukee Deraileds. VEGAS i think going into
that final, four that might have been the best Team
i'd ever SEE tark AND unlv and THEN i covered.
Them YEAH i know you. Did and yeah SO i
(26:54):
think The yukon team from last year and four guys
go to THE, nba and, yeah that's right there with
the best college basketball teams of my, lifetime no. Question
AND i think one thing that should be pointing out
Is Billy donovan off those back to BACK ncaa championship
teams didn't go to THE Ncaa tournament year. Three he
went to THE nit coach k wins back to back
(27:16):
in ninety, one ninety, two and ninety three loses in
the second. Round If Dan hurley can find a way
to Beat oklahoma and Then, florida he will be the
first coach Since John wooden with a back to back
championship team to get to The sweet. Sixteen that's how
hard it is to maintain. It now you look today
in college, sports maintaining anything is next to impossible because
(27:38):
there's perpetual free. Agency everyone's a free. AGENT i Think
dan in This austin he's really going to look at
because he likes building something and maybe adding pieces from other,
programs but not running a mercenary program where you're just
grabbing pieces from everywhere. Else he likes to build and
likes to have a core of homegrown. Talent but can
(28:00):
you do that? Now i'm Watching Saint john's Play yukon,
Right liam McNeely, Again top FIFTEEN nba pick best. Player
he's a. Freshman you're talking about a kid who's now
what eighteen nineteen years? Old AND i see him Covering
Kadari richmond Is Saint. John's Kadari richmond did a year
prep school and this is his fifth year in. College excellent,
(28:20):
player but he's like he's twenty. Four And i'm seeing
the two standing next to each. Other Kadari richmond looks
like AN nba, player physically strong and mature guy and
just knows how to play the. Game and McNeely looks
like a. Teenager so it's hard when you're playing against
these programs that have, older stronger guys who've played at multiple.
(28:41):
Schools good luck with. THAT i think the coaches who
like to build and keep homegrown, talent it's a bit
of a problem right. Now you know.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You have always picked iconic people to write books About, Belichick, jeter,
coach K Aaron. Rodgers Now Dan, hurley who if he
stays in college basketball for another, decade will win more.
Titles stores is built for, it and so is. He
and they really people, again they really, dominate like a
(29:16):
four state region of, recruiting which is you, know especially
if you look At, hurley you know they he gets those.
People just you know out. West they think there's so
much talent In Los, angeles but it gets. Splintered you,
KNOW ucla gets, ONE usc gets, One arizona gets, One
Gon zagon gets, One oregon gets. One boy in that northeast.
Corridor you, Know yukung can really get now That Jay wright's.
(29:38):
Gone he was getting THE dmv cherry picking that it's
Yu kon has a. Chance you, know it's just funny right,
Now yukon And Saint. John's If patino stays for five
years And hurley stays for five in this city that
we think about baseball and football in The, knicks he's
college basketball.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Programs it's like the halcyon days of the. Sport IT'S
i feel Like New.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
York you, know everybody thinks college basketball is, dead but
with nil in a lot of these players are not
going to go to THE G. League they're going to
stay at college for one more. Year SO i feel
like college basketball has had like been semi. Dead it's
been a three week sport for a, decade AND i
kind of feel like THE nil is a life preserver for.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
IT i think you're, right and it's. Crazy you Saw
Steve alfred's rant about, it which was, entertaining and a
lot of what he said is. True but, listen and
what's also true is college basketball needs. Rivalries they need
people to. Stay so you Need hurley And patino for
another few years because there is real tension there in that,
(30:45):
relationship and that's a very good. THING i just Think
Dan hurley overall is good for sports and college basketball
because you need villains, Too AND i think dynasties are.
GOOD i think evil empires are. Good villains are. Good
you need. That a's, right college basketball has been a
three to four week. Sport and In New, York New
york's really a pro. Town but When Saint john's is this,
(31:08):
Good Saint john's can take over In New York. City
it can Take New york away from The. Knicks, yeah
and SO i, listen What's Rick patino now seventy. TWO
i think he can coach another five. Years he's got
so much energy and now everybody is going to want
to play for. Him yukon is always going to get.
(31:28):
Players Dan hurley is going to win at least another championship,
TWO i do think at some, point and he'll try
THE nba maybe a little bit down the. Road but
that That Hurley patino thing you could that could carry the,
sport particularly on The East, coast AND i think it
plays out that. Way i'll wrap it up with.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
This you, KNOW i was saying this. Today it's easy
to Hate. California the weather's, beautiful The california, economy our
governor looks like an Older abercrombie And fitch. Model you,
know all of our. Teams you, know it's it's the.
Beaches BUT i also think the team's out here well.
(32:15):
Run sean, McVay Jim, harbaugh The, dodgers research and development and.
Scouting The yankees make about one hundred and fifty million
more annually a year than The.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Dodgers.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Do believe it or, not but The, dodgers because of
the way they have structured, contracts have literally An All star.
Team i'm not Sure i've ever seen an entire roster
that has like five starting pitchers with or without Show
Heyo tani and A Freddie FREEMAN mooki but Show Heyo,
Tani Max Muncy Teoscar. Hernandez it's just like one big
(32:49):
bat after. Another so When Garrett cole goes down And soto,
leaves you, know there's this there's this sense Of, okay
let's let's just go get, somebody and you, KNOW i
kind of look at, it and it's not that they
don't have the, money and it's not that they don't
(33:09):
have the stomach for. It BUT i feel Like George,
steinbrenner there was you, know he made his MONEY i
think In cleveland initially or. Something IF i recall, Them,
yeah but if you look At, STEINBRENNER i don't know
what they did on an annual. Basis but not all
(33:31):
his business decisions were good. Decisions they weren't all good financial.
DECISIONS i, mean he's buying guys left and. RIGHT i
See yankee fans complain about like the kids don't want
it as much As.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
George is that? Fair you needs to KNOW i think that,
certainly How steinbrener is. Pood he's not. Cheap he Gave
Aaron judge the big money when he had, to and
he Offered sodo seven hundred and sixty million, Dollars so
it's hard to say he's, cheap, CERTAINLY i think relative
to his. File here's one thing that's, different and you,
(34:06):
know we haven't. Seen we didn't get a chance See
George steinbernner in this era of baseball competing against That dodger,
ownership WHICH i believe is an investment firm with about
three hundred billion dollars in. Assets george didn't have to
compete against The guggenheim, partners, Right, so But, george one
thing that's. Different how three years, AGO i believe it
(34:27):
was in spring, training talked to some beat writers and
they questioned him about the payroll and some money that
wasn't being spent on. Talent and he said that there
are banks and partners and lenders THAT i have to
deal with AND i have to answer. To AND i
(34:48):
can tell you, This. COLIN i had a lot of
conversations With george steinbern over the. YEARS i never heard
him talk about a, bank a, lender a, bondholder a. Partner,
ever he did not. CARE i ACTUALLY i, think LIKE
i don't know if he cared about turning a. PROFIT
i just think that he was so driven to win
and win it all. COSTS i actually think even if
(35:10):
he couldn't afford, IT i don't know if he would
have Let Steve cohen get Lon. So And i'm not
criticizing How steinbrenner for laying out seven hundred and sixty
million dollars and not giving him a. SUITE i think
that you, know you, Know casmine, said we didn't Give
derek J, orst we didn't Give garrett coleas. Sweet we
didn't give It Oun judge a sweep for. Free if
(35:30):
you want a sweet and we're giving me a seven
hundred and sixty million, dollars you got to pay for.
It i'm. SORRY i have no problem with that. Stance
BUT i do think there is a, difference certainly in
the approach Of George steinbrenner and HOW i think you
have to put it in. Context hal is dealing with
the gougenheind, partners And george did not have to deal with.
That one Thing i'd say About, SOTO i don't. KNOW
(35:51):
i don't THINK i would have made that move to The.
Mets the money was just a little, different and it
seemed like he Preferred Steve cohen's To. How's BUT i
grew up A yankees. Fan i'm. BIASED i was A
Thurman reggie guy in the, seventies AND i don't Leave
Aaron judge AND i don't leave that right field, ports
AND i don't leave the tradition when you can be
(36:12):
the Next Mickey manno With Joe DiMaggio and you're twenty,
five twenty six years, old you stay with The. Yankees
but he decided to go to The. Mets the problem
is now that he goes to The, mets he made
it that much harder to get to The World. Series
why because in The American, league who do The yankees
even Without Garrett cale now Without heel without stand for a?
While The American, league who are they dealing? With who
(36:33):
do they have to get? Through then you look at
The National. League you've got to get through The. Dodgers
you've got to get through The, braves you got to
get through The, phillies maybe a little bit The, plotgers
but particularly The. Dodgers you don't put yourself on the
same side of the draw as The Los Angeles. Dodgers
and that's What soto did by going to The. Mets
and if he ends up winning three rings over the next, twelve,
(36:53):
thirteen fourteen, years god bless. Him BUT i just think
he made it that much harder to do by going
to The National.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
YEAH i think THAT'S i think that's really well. PUT i, Mean,
god The podres are. YOUNG i mean LIKE i have
like either six six or seven really good players in their.
Prime had a guy that could have Been rookie of
The year last. Year dodgers are stacked acunya back for The.
Braves it really. Is and for the, record you, know
(37:26):
nobody would be shocked if The phillies end up in
the you, Know National League Championship series against The. Dodgers so,
yeah WHEREAS i feel like we've seen the best Of,
HOUSTON i kind of feel like we've seen the best of.
It maybe that's not, true but some of those players
that were in their prime four years ago or they're
just you, know it doesn't feel quite the.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Same, so you, know The Red sox are better with breg,
mean they're a fact. Now and, yeah so you, know
The yankees will have to certainly deal with, them but
they own The Central every, year whenever they play one
of those teams in the, playoffs they. Win and so,
YEAH i just that's really WHAT i looked at more
than anything else when so was making a. Decisions, First
(38:07):
i'm not Leading Aaron. Judge is it possible that he, Said,
okay we're the modern Day ruth And. Gereg he's always
going to Be. Ruth i'm always going to Be. Gereg
IF i go to The, Mets i'm There. Ruth and
he's the best player they've likely ever. Had and SO
i don't know if being the, man for lack of
a better, term Was i'm courting to. Him it's not
(38:29):
something he ever, verbalized but now there's no question that's
his team with The. Yankees it was always going to
be one in ONE a and he was ONE. A
my suspicion is human nature being what it is that
was something of a factor in his.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Decision ian, O'Connor he'll have a book coming. Out it's
a while down the, road in about six seven. Months
it's With Dan, Hurley Never Stop, Life leadership and what
it takes to be. Great Dan hurley coming out In
september one of my. Favorites now you're not writing a column.
ANYMORE i know that was your, choice just you know
(39:06):
the regression of that side of the. Business everything, Changes
you're busier with your family than. Ever do you just
wake up one day and, Say i've been a columnist
a long, TIME i want to do the book.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Thing that pretty much was. IT i was doing, both
and it got to a point where the workload was
such THAT i don't know IF i could do books
the WAY i want to do them and dive in
and talk to hundreds of people and report the hell
out of these things and still write four or five
columns a. Week And i'm not Saying i'll never go
(39:38):
back to. IT i don't know If i'll go back
to it full. Time, yeah column writing is a little
bit of a lost. Art it's. UNFORTUNATE i still think
there's a real place for it and commentary in this,
country and there are some people who are just incredible.
Calumnists and obviously we Lost John, feinstein who was a
great commis beside being an, author and he was SOMEONE
i always looked up to as just a guy who
(40:01):
was great at both and could do both and was
so prolific AND i admired that and envied. It and
one thing About, John and let's say you're the same
Way colin right running to you. Somewhere we could just
have a regular conversation talk about five million. Things john
was a real titan of the. Industry and yet AND
i used to tell him, this we'd sit down at
(40:22):
The masters and have conversations about. Anything AND i, say
a lot of people who've achieved what you have in
our industry would not have this conversation with. Me you
just would be. Unapproachable don't ever. Change if you, Change
i'm going to call you out On and he used to.
Laugh so if you ever got a little, arrogant which
he would at, TIMES i would, say are you turning
(40:44):
into that? PERSON i warned you not to turn Into
and we would get a kick out of. That but,
Yeah so there's a person who did it for so
long at such a high, level both being a columnist
a lot of college basketball but other sports as, well
and an. Author that's the AND i really looked up
to in this, business probably more than.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Anyone how was the Book season on The brink viewed
among writers? Transcendent?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yeah it still. Is AND i think his passing, unfortunately
BUT i think we'll send younger people maybe who didn't
get a chance to read, it back to that and
and and look at it and see it created a
genre of books and it was just so so. Good
and WHEN i WHAT i love column is That COACH.
K And i'm, Sorry i'm not going to be able
(41:30):
to credit the reporter who got this, interview But i'd
have been peteammam. M i'd have Been pat. Forty but
somebody talked To COACH k the other day and When
john passed, away and he said that he basically Said
knight didn't understand That john really did him a. Favor
he he Showed Bob, knight the Real Bob, knight to the,
reader to the, fan and that that's that book was
(41:52):
a great, book and it Portrayed knight the right way
and it was very. Fair AND i was glad That
COACH k said that on the record because WHEN i
read that, BOOK i did not Think knight was portrayed
as a. Monster AND i KNOW i didn't, either BUT
i think a lot of, PEOPLE i Think bob might
thought he was portrayed as a as a, monster and he.
Wasn't he humanisted him in, FACT i thought he did
(42:13):
him a. Favor so, yeah that that. BOOK i have
never met a sports writer as bitter as sometimes we can.
Be whoever said anything but just extraordinary things about that. Work,
now some Of john's other books maybe didn't max that
would be impossible to churn out book kept matching that
(42:33):
that level of. Greatness but that is right there With
moranis's book On Vince lombardi as among the two or
three best sports Books i've ever.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Read ian O'Connor is ALWAYS i love talking to, you.
MAN i WISH i lived out see you more. Often,
yeah well i'd.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Listen it's it's always an honor to be with you
and a pleasure and just thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Me
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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One of my favorite people in the media. He has
New York Times best selling books on Aaron Rodgers, Derek Jeter,
and Bill Belichick. Pretty impressive resume. Has got a new
one coming out with Dan Hurley, which is fascinating because
(01:08):
Hurley and Yukon have had a spirited and disappointing season.
And the book is coming out in September called Never
Stop Life, Leadership and What it Takes to Be Great,
co written with Dan Hurley. I want to get to
that in a second. I want to start with Rick
Batino and Saint John's. So, for the uninitiated, Saint John's
is in Queens, one of the five boroughs. Used to
(01:29):
be in Brooklyn. Actually a long time ago Catholic university
between the airports is how I remember being described to
me one time. And it was in the Big East,
which is the greatest basketball conference, the most personality filled
basketball conference at its best in the history, between players
and coaches, and so Louis carnaseca Ages leaves, it's not
(01:52):
the same university many people tried. Then one of the
great coaches of all time, Rick Batino and New Yorker
gets the job.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So let's start with that.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I couldn't say the last time Duke and Saint John's
both had a chance to win the title in the
same tournament. So it's a fascinating tournament. But when Rick
took the job, I mean I said this the other day.
You know, his moral compass has sometimes flipped around. But
in terms of basketball iq EQ and program building, he
is He is parcels plus Urban Meyer. You know, he
(02:22):
is just one of these guys that can do a
Jim Harbaugh. What is the secret sauce?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You know? Rick?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
What is his secret sauce? What's different between Rick and
so many other coaches that go to these programs? I
own a Saint John's and just make it work quickly.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Great question, And I think, first of all, I think
the two best coaches in the history of the sport
are John Wooden and Mike Sizhevsky. So if you look
at their bodies of work, yeah, I think they're the
top two. But I also believe Rick Patino is just
as good as they were. I think that he's as
good as any college basketball coach ever. And it's just
the ferocity with which he gets his kids to play defense.
(03:05):
And it really works at Saint John's, and of course
it worked at Louisville, it worked at Kentucky and to Providence.
But he's such a New Yorker and that is such
a New York style of play on the playgrounds that
it really translates. And this has been a very likable
team the city has fallen in love with Saint John's. Now,
when I started my career, Saint John's would take the
(03:26):
back page of the tabloids away from the Knicks, and
so it's been a long time since that was possible. Now.
Of course, the tabloids aren't what they used to be
in New York or newspapers anywhere, of course, but Saint
John's is now a team that the city has embraced.
And Patino that style of played. He did it even
with the mix, pressing, defense, attention to detail, just playing
(03:51):
with that ferocity. And yeah, I don't know if I've
ever seen a coach get his kids consistently to play
any harder than Rick Patino's teams everywhere he's been, including
in the NBA outside of the Celtics. But yeah, he's
an amazing when it comes to x's and o's and
motivation and recruiting, He's an amazing coach, There's no question
about it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So it is very unique I have them making the
Final four. They don't shoot threes particularly well, but either
does half ninety percent of the field. I mean, you
see San Diego's rare BYU is rare. Saint John's can't
shoot threes, Houston's not great at it, Michigan State can't.
I mean I watched Michigan Michigan State play a couple
of weeks ago, and Michigan State ends up scoring in
(04:33):
the eighties. I don't know how, but they get there.
So I don't really use that as a deficit. I
think Saint John's can muscle and defend and coach its
way to the final four. But I'll go being back
to my an initial point. You know Duke basketball because
of the book on Coach k which I strongly recommend
if you've never read it, it is I think it's.
In my opinion, I think it's your best book, and.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I've read all of them. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Duke is the most talented team Coach K leaves. And
usually it almost always works this way. You give it
to a popular assistant coach and he just doesn't have
the gravitas or the weight to hold this massive brand afloat.
(05:17):
But Duke this year feels like to me, the odds
on favorite, like if they want, it's the only team
you wouldn't even ask how you'd go. Okay, Cooper flag,
are you surprised by Coach k leaves, and yet Duke
remains vibrant.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
No, I'm not surprised, Colin. I think Duke does recruit
itself to some degree. But John Schier's recruiting has been
unbelievable since coach k left. And you start with that.
Of course, that's the lifeblood of college basketball in all
college sports, and he's been terrific at that. And he's
just a really good coach too, in terms of ex's
and o's. But if you look at that team right now,
(05:56):
it's almost a perfect college basketball team. They've got the
big man who's seven to two with an incredible wingspan.
He's a top ten, top fifteen NBA pick. You've got
a forward who's a top fifteen on one side. On
the other side, you've got one of the best freshmen
we've ever seen in college basketball, who's the number one pick,
assuming he's healthy and he looks like he's going to play.
(06:18):
And in the backcourt you've got two guys who are six'
five at. Guard, now, yeah maybe the one question mark
you have against a team that has, smaller quicker, guards
maybe that's a little bit of an. Issue but, size,
skill the, coaching the, pedigree everything is in place For
duke to win the national. CHAMPIONSHIP i actually don't think they,
(06:39):
will BUT i certainly wouldn't be surprised if they, do
because they probably do have the best. TEAM i actually
Think houston is going to win the national. Title and
it's a bit of a strange. REASON i just Think
Kelvin sampson has been such a good coach for so
long it seems to me that he's going to get
one before he. Retires and you, look, REALLY i know
that's kind of a funny, reason but if you look
(07:01):
at the way they, defend they have, guards AND i
just think at some point he's going to pick one.
Off John shire is very worthy coach of winning a
national telegraphy recall from my, Book COACH k wanted him
to be the. Coach the university actually Wanted Tommy amacker
to be the next head, coach But COACH k sort
of got his way on that, one and, frankly you
(07:23):
cannot argue with the. Results John shire is ben.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Tremendous, yeah for the, uninitiated, again for the people that
don't follow due closely or college, basketball what was? Boy
that must have been, tough remember reading about it in
your book you Have amaker And shire and you know
and here comes COACH. K eventually you know he's going
(07:46):
to make a. Choice what Is shire's, strength what's this
foundational piece that made him the? Choice and why you
Think COACH k eventually leaned to.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Him because he was in his. System it had been
a long time Since amiker had been an assistant At.
Duke of, course he was a very important player in
the development of that championship program Under COACH k and
has done a good job in The Ivy. League But
shire was. There shire was a great. Player he was
going to play of THE nba serious eye injury early
(08:18):
in what would have BEEN i think a pretty GOOD nba.
Career but the way he relates to. Kids i've had
just a couple of conversations with, him but been around
enough people who are in his world, consistently and he's
just a very relatable. Guy and SO i think the
fact that he was a, really really good player there
and the fact that he is he's got the right
(08:40):
personality to connect with. People he obviously has THE x
AND o background From COACH, k and you put it all,
together and, again it is a campus that does recruit
itself to some, degree and a program that does recruit
itself to some. Degree it's a pretty powerful. Combination SO
i said this the other day on the.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Show you, know OBVIOUSLY i was in The northeast for
ten and a half, years but one of the THINGS
i observed WHEN i was in the city a lot
or near it In connecticut is, that you, know there's
a lot Of yankee And met, fans and a lot
Of giant And jet, fans but everybody In New york
likes The.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Knicks it's just.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Every single FRIEND i had In New, york and many of,
them more than The yankees Or, giants Were nick fans.
First and, Again i'm old enough to remember The Walt,
Fraser Bill, Bradley Earl. Monroe, yet LIKE i go back
to the seventies when nobody. Won you, know The lakers
won a, title The warriors, did The Washington bullets, did The,
sonics The, blazers The, knicks and then there were the
(09:42):
Pat riley. Iterations BUT i always, Said, god If dolan
could get out of the, way this city loves its
team so. Much AND i think when the sphere got
built for two, Years dolan removed himself from the. FACILITY
i mean literally. Physically he was In vegas so often
and it allowed The knicks to really grow this really
(10:03):
strong basketball, group AND i think they've made very, patient
very sharp. MOVES i don't think kat is the, future
BUT i think he was the right move at the right.
Time but there was a moment Between tibbs And Josh
hart the other day And Mikhale bridges it was public
that he had gone To. Tibbs, hey we need to
play the starters. Less you, know young players don't get
(10:28):
a lot of work and minutes Under. Tibbs as great
as the brief journey has been With, tom it does feel,
like does it not Ian to get to the next,
level you need two. Moves Karl Anthony towns probably gets
replaced with a better defensive big or just like A,
kd a greater, player And tibbs may not be the.
(10:51):
Answer or is that me three thousand miles away Guessing.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
NO i think it's possible that's the. CASE i do
Think tibbs is good and not to win a championship
as a head. Coach they losing the second round again this.
YEAR i don't think he'll get replaced BECAUSE i think
he'll lose to a better. TEAM i think The celtics are,
better and surprisingly, ENOUGH i did not think The cavs
would be, better but they. Are they just are so
(11:16):
if they lose in the second, round to say The,
celtics defire the guy off that you're losing to a better.
Team The celtics have better. Players The knicks have improved
their rosters. Certainly AND i didn't Think Jalen. BRUNSON i
wasn't sure if he'd be this or could be the
second best player on a championship team when they acquired.
Him NOW i do think he could be one of
(11:37):
the top, two if not the best player on a championship.
Team he's an incredible, player AND i think a lot
of people In New york were surprised by. THAT i
think where The knicks are right now is it's kind
of funny Because jets fans have been complaining and complaining
About Woody, johnson the owner for a long. Time If
Woody johnson, hires we'll find out if he did the
right general manager And mouji and the right head coach
(11:58):
And Aaron. Glenn he's going to go away And jets
fans will never talk about. Him knicks fans are not
talking About Jim dollon and they haven't now for a
number of years because he hired the right general. Manager
AND i was a. Gamble Leon rose had never done this.
Job he was a very good age and he had
never been a general, manager and early ON i wasn't so.
Sure but turns out he knows what he's, doing And,
(12:20):
tims of, course everybody knew he knew what he was.
Doing he's proven that he could be a very valuable
piece of a coaching staff that won a championship In
boston Under Doc, rivers and so is. He it's almost
Like Buck showalter did all the dirty work on The
yankees in the mid nineties and then he got replaced
By Joe, tory And Joe tory then won a Flor World.
(12:41):
Series So i'm not saying that the Next knicks coach
is gonna win four titles in the next five years
after that, happens BUT i think that he's going to
get one more year after another second round, exit maybe
The knicks will surprise us and win that second round
matchup with say The. CELTICS i don't think that will,
happen BUT i do think you're right in terms of the,
(13:02):
roster it looks like they're still believe it or. Not
after all the moves they've made and what five number
one picks For bridges and then they made The cat
deal and They brunson deal was an incredible. One it
still looks like they need to make one more move
and Maybe kat is a part of that. Package but,
yeah right, now it's just they're in a tough way
(13:23):
because of The celtics being in their, way and now
The cavs have hurdled, them and they sure look like
they're for. Real.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
YEAH i think The hertenstein, move WHICH i think they
were kind of, trapped there's not much they could. DO
i thought he added some real toughness and rebounding that's
very hard to. Replace kat is a more gifted offensive,
player but he's not the toughest guy in the, league
and he's a poor. Defender hartenstein had this sort Of
New york, toughness just a fighter on the, glass and
it felt like he was just part almost felt, like you,
(13:53):
know he had That villanova. Feel he was just an
overachiever and a. Fighter AND i think sometimes in THE,
nba it's not what you want to, do it's what
you have to, do and they let them go TO
okc and you know it doesn't quite feel like the same.
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Speaker 2 (15:24):
Audio The Aaron rodgers thing has been interesting because he
wrote the book on, him so you know him pretty.
Well AND i didn't think HIS i don't think his football.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
He's.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Fine he's you, know somewhere between the thirteenth and sixteenth best.
Quarterback he's. FINE i don't think he's quite as committed
as the young great, ones AND i don't think he
moves like the young great. Ones he's. Smart but When
Aaron glenn came in and for the second time In aaron's,
career he was caught off guard a little by a
team saying, hey, thanks but no. Thanks according to reports
(16:02):
that you, Know aaron had flown across country meeting with,
him And Aaron glenn was, like we're gonna move on
and to me downgraded at. QUARTERBACK i, mean when you
write a book On, aaron you think you have a
feel or a vibe for. HIM i said this the other.
(16:22):
Day if The vikings say, no, THANKS i think he.
Retires when you look at how the season went and
now we're in this flux, period are you surprised or
could you have predicted it based on the over one
hundred people you talk to in the conversation With.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
AARON i Think i'm not surprised that HE i think
the overriding feeling right now is that he still wants
to play in maybe two. YEARS i had a friend
of his tell me two years a week, ago because
he kind of feels like this past Season colin was
a rehab, year and so if he has a good
(17:03):
twenty twenty, FIVE i really do expect him to try
to play in twenty. Six but we'll even play at,
All retirement is on the. Table THINK i don't think
The vikings are going to sign. Him that would be
the best case. Scenario but if You let's say you
put The vikings roster or The, steelers and The giants
(17:24):
had an equivalent talent base as The, vikings same, coaching same.
TALENT i actually think he picked The giants because he
does really like living in The New, York New jersey,
area despite the fact that The jets thing was effectively
a two year. DISASTER i do think if The giants
had A vikings, ROSTER i actually think he would pick The.
(17:45):
Giants he has respect for that. Organization they've had good.
Conversations i've talked to a couple people with The giants
who said they have no issues with him as a
locker room. Presence as a. Personality, ah they don't. Care
they think he's the best available quarterback and they won.
Him they've made a good. Offer IF i had to
put twenty bucks down, TODAY i think he'll be the
starting quarterback for The steelers BECAUSE i think he'd prefer The.
(18:08):
Vikings but The, STEELERS i, think really do want. Him
they've made that, clear And Mike tomlin gives him the
kind of coaching last Year. Colin i've been doing this
almost forty years in The New york. Market that is
one of the two or three worst coaching Jobs i've
ever seen in any sport In New. York and so
to go from that To Mike, tomlin If Mike tomlin
(18:30):
coached the twenty twenty Four, jets they would have gone
ten and. Seven i'm convinced of. That that was a
ten and seventeen that went five and twelve with horrific.
Coaching SO i think with The steelers and with the
playmakers they have now and roster and particularly the, COACHING
i Think aaron can go ten and, seven maybe eleven and,
(18:51):
six and get back in the. Playoffs and maybe that's
the way to end his. CAREER i think where The
giants are right now because they don't have that roster
that we're talking about early with The, vikings he's looking
at that, saying, geez DO i want to finish my
career going five and twelve for One New york team
and five and twelve for. Another have you looked at
The giants home? Schedule let me run these eight games by,
(19:15):
you and you tell me they're gonna play nine on
the road next year and eight at. Home you tell
me who The giants are beating from this? Crew, Dallas,
OKAY i think they can Beat. Dallas but then they're
playing at, Home, Philly, Washington Green, Bay Kansas, city The,
chargers The, vikings and the forty nine. Ers how many
of those games are they? Winning maybe two if they're,
lucky they go two and six at. Home then on
(19:38):
the road they're At, dallas they're At, Philly they're At,
Washington they're At, denver they're At. Detroit how many those
games are they? Winning SO i Think aaron is smart
enough to look at that and, say DO i really
want to go five and? Twelve even IF i played?
Better and even THOUGH i don't think The jet thing
is really going to hurt his, LEGACY i don't think
ten fifteen years from, now when he's already in The
hall Of fame as A, packer people are going to
(19:59):
be talking about his experience with The. Jets but if
he does that again with a second, TEAM i do
Think kle hurt his. Legacy so to, me if The
vikings aren't interested and they're going with McCarthy pretty much right,
AWAY i think The steelers make a lot of. SENSE
i Think tomlin is a built in insurance policy that
it won't be a. DISASTER i think he should do.
(20:20):
THAT i think he'll play. BETTER i think he'll make the,
playoffs and that's the way to go, out.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
All. RIGHT i want to go back to. Basketball Dan
hurley and The hurley. Family obviously they're, smart they're. Aggressive
they're sort of baked into our college basketball ideology and.
Culture over the course of my, life you, know the,
dad the, Coach Bobby dan the only Thing i've ever
(20:47):
worried About Dan, Hurley AND i think this is sort
of a problem that arises with great success and the
kind of personality types that often flourish in college which
are you, know they. Need they're very good with. Control Nick,
Saban Bobby, Knight Urban. Meyer they flourish with. Control that's
why they don't like professional. Football they lack they don't
(21:10):
have they can't get their arms quite around the. Program
you're dealing with, agents you're dealing with impulsive. Owners so
it's like the duality of. Life your greatest strength as
often becomes a. Burden AND i look At Dan hurley's
kind of treatment of the, officials and there's there's talk that,
he's you, know he's gotten more difficult in the athletic.
DEPARTMENT i see that he's co writing a book with
(21:32):
you instead of you know you're writing it. Is AND
i look at this From afar BECAUSE i like And
i've talked to, him AND i really like, him AND
i really Enjoy WHEN i was In, CONNECTICUT i became
very fond of The yukon, program AND i think one
of the great coaches of my time Is Jim, calhoun
who built a powerhouse in, Stores. Connecticut you've been around.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Him this?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Season was it as ugly close to the program as
it was from the outside starting in that was It Maui,
tournament you, know early in the, Season lovely And.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Howie but they recovered from, that and he did to some.
EXTENT i think he was wounded by some of the
criticism but later acknowledge that his behavior on the sideline
was too. Much it was over the. Top AND i
think he only has the one technical on the, mainland
as he said, recently and that was. It and he
did get caught Saying i'm the best coach in the bleeping.
(22:24):
Sport he didn't know the camera was on. Him of,
course he had the thing Of, creighton the two, rings two, Rings,
baldy AND i Think i'll know that one didn't bother
me so much because it Was Dollar Beer night At.
Creighton so you invited a guy From Jersey city to
Dollar Beer, night you cursed him out for two hours
and fifteen, minutes and then on his way off the
court following his, interview he got cursed out again and
(22:45):
he said some, things AND i didn't have a problem with.
That so BUT i think That yukon has been all
over the map with this. Season at, times they've looked
like a top ten. Team After, maui They Beacon, Zaga
texas And, baylor and once McNeely got hurt and missed eight,
games he's their best. Player he's going to be a lottery.
(23:06):
Pick just the season sort of went sideways a little.
Bit it's been inconsistent better of. Late they've won what
five of their last, six and of course lose To
creighton in The Big East. Semis but they're a. Team
i'll say This, colin they And DAN i actually think
has done a really really good coaching. Job roster construction
maybe not so. Much it's almost like he's overcome his
(23:28):
own construction of the. Roster and there are a lot
of holes with this, team and he's coached his way
around those holes and got them to a point Where,
okay they're an eight. SEED i think they'll Beat, oklahoma
AND i think they'll Scare florida in round two and
probably lose that. Game but if you told, me and
the way this season has, gone if you told me
they could Upset florida in round, TWO i would believe.
(23:49):
It if you told me they were going to lose
To oklahoma in round, ONE i would believe. It that's
the way this season is. Gone But i'll say, this
If i'm The, Gators i'd feel wronged a little, bit
like you're tell me after the season we've. Had as
a number one, Seed i'm Getting Dan hurley and The. Huskies,
yeah the team at certain points of this year they
played like a top ten team and there are two
(24:11):
time defending. CHAMPION i don't want them in the second
round as the number one. Seed, so, yeah it listened With.
Hurley it's always interesting behind the. Scenes one Thing COLIN
i think a lot of people don't realize. NATIONALLY i
think In connecticut they. Do it's behind the. Scenes he
has a holistic approach to coaching his. Kids they know
he loves.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Them.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Now that's not something he grew up with with his.
Dad with coaches in The Big east with his own
coach in The Big. East but he learned and the
fact that he got screened at during games and he
remembers how that. Felt people don't realize that in, games
it is rare when he ever screams at an individual. Player,
now in, timeouts he'll get on the, group he'll challenge.
(24:53):
Them you have to do that as a. Coach, halftime
behind the closed locker room, door he'll he'll challenge. Guys
but during a, game in front of a lot of
people watching ON tv and in the, arena he almost never
screams out of. Player and there are times When i'm
looking for him to do it because some egregious mistake
would be, made and he doesn't do. It SO i
(25:13):
give him a lot of credit for. That AND i
just don't think he gets any credit for that as.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Well, yeah, WELL i also think sometimes we, compare which
is of course The thief Of joy the thirty seven
and Three Yukon huskies that won the national. Title to,
me this is just my, opinion was the best college
basketball team from coaching to construction Since Billy donovan's two
time Champion Florida. Gators they could do. Everything they had
so much dexterity and, size the ability to defend the,
(25:40):
rim the, wing the. POINT i Thought Billy donovan's teams
that second year when he brought them all, back that
was a machine and they WERE i mean humiliating good.
TEAMS i Think yukon's the best Team i've seen since.
THEN i, mean all of those guys that went to THE,
nba From portland to Sant, tonio they've all been. Outstanding
(26:02):
SO i don't think. IT i think in TODAY'S, nil
when people cherry pick you and recruitings every man for,
HIMSELF i think we have to BE i, had Even
coach k had certain champions that didn't live up to
The Grant hill you, Know Bobby Hurley laytner level. TEAMS
i think over the course of, Time Dan hurley may
look back and, Think, JESUS i was a young, coach
(26:25):
that's the best Team i've ever. HAD i, mean you,
know college, basketball you can be. ENCYCLOPEDIC i thought last
year's team was. INSANE i really.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
DID i put last year's team right there with the
early Nineties vegas teams And duke, teams and those were machines,
Too even Though dukee Deraileds. VEGAS i think going into
that final, four that might have been the best Team
i'd ever SEE tark AND unlv and THEN i covered.
Them YEAH i know you. Did and yeah SO i
(26:54):
think The yukon team from last year and four guys
go to THE, nba and, yeah that's right there with
the best college basketball teams of my, lifetime no. Question
AND i think one thing that should be pointing out
Is Billy donovan off those back to BACK ncaa championship
teams didn't go to THE Ncaa tournament year. Three he
went to THE nit coach k wins back to back
(27:16):
in ninety, one ninety, two and ninety three loses in
the second. Round If Dan hurley can find a way
to Beat oklahoma and Then, florida he will be the
first coach Since John wooden with a back to back
championship team to get to The sweet. Sixteen that's how
hard it is to maintain. It now you look today
in college, sports maintaining anything is next to impossible because
(27:38):
there's perpetual free. Agency everyone's a free. AGENT i Think
dan in This austin he's really going to look at
because he likes building something and maybe adding pieces from other,
programs but not running a mercenary program where you're just
grabbing pieces from everywhere. Else he likes to build and
likes to have a core of homegrown. Talent but can
(28:00):
you do that? Now i'm Watching Saint john's Play yukon,
Right liam McNeely, Again top FIFTEEN nba pick best. Player
he's a. Freshman you're talking about a kid who's now
what eighteen nineteen years? Old AND i see him Covering
Kadari richmond Is Saint. John's Kadari richmond did a year
prep school and this is his fifth year in. College excellent,
(28:20):
player but he's like he's twenty. Four And i'm seeing
the two standing next to each. Other Kadari richmond looks
like AN nba, player physically strong and mature guy and
just knows how to play the. Game and McNeely looks
like a. Teenager so it's hard when you're playing against
these programs that have, older stronger guys who've played at multiple.
(28:41):
Schools good luck with. THAT i think the coaches who
like to build and keep homegrown, talent it's a bit
of a problem right. Now you know.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You have always picked iconic people to write books About, Belichick, jeter,
coach K Aaron. Rodgers Now Dan, hurley who if he
stays in college basketball for another, decade will win more.
Titles stores is built for, it and so is. He
and they really people, again they really, dominate like a
(29:16):
four state region of, recruiting which is you, know especially
if you look At, hurley you know they he gets those.
People just you know out. West they think there's so
much talent In Los, angeles but it gets. Splintered you,
KNOW ucla gets, ONE usc gets, One arizona gets, One
Gon zagon gets, One oregon gets. One boy in that northeast.
Corridor you, Know yukung can really get now That Jay wright's.
(29:38):
Gone he was getting THE dmv cherry picking that it's
Yu kon has a. Chance you, know it's just funny right,
Now yukon And Saint. John's If patino stays for five
years And hurley stays for five in this city that
we think about baseball and football in The, knicks he's
college basketball.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Programs it's like the halcyon days of the. Sport IT'S
i feel Like New.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
York you, know everybody thinks college basketball is, dead but
with nil in a lot of these players are not
going to go to THE G. League they're going to
stay at college for one more. Year SO i feel
like college basketball has had like been semi. Dead it's
been a three week sport for a, decade AND i
kind of feel like THE nil is a life preserver for.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
IT i think you're, right and it's. Crazy you Saw
Steve alfred's rant about, it which was, entertaining and a
lot of what he said is. True but, listen and
what's also true is college basketball needs. Rivalries they need
people to. Stay so you Need hurley And patino for
another few years because there is real tension there in that,
(30:45):
relationship and that's a very good. THING i just Think
Dan hurley overall is good for sports and college basketball
because you need villains, Too AND i think dynasties are.
GOOD i think evil empires are. Good villains are. Good
you need. That a's, right college basketball has been a
three to four week. Sport and In New, York New
york's really a pro. Town but When Saint john's is this,
(31:08):
Good Saint john's can take over In New York. City
it can Take New york away from The. Knicks, yeah
and SO i, listen What's Rick patino now seventy. TWO
i think he can coach another five. Years he's got
so much energy and now everybody is going to want
to play for. Him yukon is always going to get.
(31:28):
Players Dan hurley is going to win at least another championship,
TWO i do think at some, point and he'll try
THE nba maybe a little bit down the. Road but
that That Hurley patino thing you could that could carry the,
sport particularly on The East, coast AND i think it
plays out that. Way i'll wrap it up with.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
This you, KNOW i was saying this. Today it's easy
to Hate. California the weather's, beautiful The california, economy our
governor looks like an Older abercrombie And fitch. Model you,
know all of our. Teams you, know it's it's the.
Beaches BUT i also think the team's out here well.
(32:15):
Run sean, McVay Jim, harbaugh The, dodgers research and development and.
Scouting The yankees make about one hundred and fifty million
more annually a year than The.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Dodgers.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Do believe it or, not but The, dodgers because of
the way they have structured, contracts have literally An All star.
Team i'm not Sure i've ever seen an entire roster
that has like five starting pitchers with or without Show
Heyo tani and A Freddie FREEMAN mooki but Show Heyo,
Tani Max Muncy Teoscar. Hernandez it's just like one big
(32:49):
bat after. Another so When Garrett cole goes down And soto,
leaves you, know there's this there's this sense Of, okay
let's let's just go get, somebody and you, KNOW i
kind of look at, it and it's not that they
don't have the, money and it's not that they don't
(33:09):
have the stomach for. It BUT i feel Like George,
steinbrenner there was you, know he made his MONEY i
think In cleveland initially or. Something IF i recall, Them,
yeah but if you look At, STEINBRENNER i don't know
what they did on an annual. Basis but not all
(33:31):
his business decisions were good. Decisions they weren't all good financial.
DECISIONS i, mean he's buying guys left and. RIGHT i
See yankee fans complain about like the kids don't want
it as much As.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
George is that? Fair you needs to KNOW i think that,
certainly How steinbrener is. Pood he's not. Cheap he Gave
Aaron judge the big money when he had, to and
he Offered sodo seven hundred and sixty million, Dollars so
it's hard to say he's, cheap, CERTAINLY i think relative
to his. File here's one thing that's, different and you,
(34:06):
know we haven't. Seen we didn't get a chance See
George steinbernner in this era of baseball competing against That dodger,
ownership WHICH i believe is an investment firm with about
three hundred billion dollars in. Assets george didn't have to
compete against The guggenheim, partners, Right, so But, george one
thing that's. Different how three years, AGO i believe it
(34:27):
was in spring, training talked to some beat writers and
they questioned him about the payroll and some money that
wasn't being spent on. Talent and he said that there
are banks and partners and lenders THAT i have to
deal with AND i have to answer. To AND i
(34:48):
can tell you, This. COLIN i had a lot of
conversations With george steinbern over the. YEARS i never heard
him talk about a, bank a, lender a, bondholder a. Partner,
ever he did not. CARE i ACTUALLY i, think LIKE
i don't know if he cared about turning a. PROFIT
i just think that he was so driven to win
and win it all. COSTS i actually think even if
(35:10):
he couldn't afford, IT i don't know if he would
have Let Steve cohen get Lon. So And i'm not
criticizing How steinbrenner for laying out seven hundred and sixty
million dollars and not giving him a. SUITE i think
that you, know you, Know casmine, said we didn't Give
derek J, orst we didn't Give garrett coleas. Sweet we
didn't give It Oun judge a sweep for. Free if
(35:30):
you want a sweet and we're giving me a seven
hundred and sixty million, dollars you got to pay for.
It i'm. SORRY i have no problem with that. Stance
BUT i do think there is a, difference certainly in
the approach Of George steinbrenner and HOW i think you
have to put it in. Context hal is dealing with
the gougenheind, partners And george did not have to deal with.
That one Thing i'd say About, SOTO i don't. KNOW
(35:51):
i don't THINK i would have made that move to The.
Mets the money was just a little, different and it
seemed like he Preferred Steve cohen's To. How's BUT i
grew up A yankees. Fan i'm. BIASED i was A
Thurman reggie guy in the, seventies AND i don't Leave
Aaron judge AND i don't leave that right field, ports
AND i don't leave the tradition when you can be
(36:12):
the Next Mickey manno With Joe DiMaggio and you're twenty,
five twenty six years, old you stay with The. Yankees
but he decided to go to The. Mets the problem
is now that he goes to The, mets he made
it that much harder to get to The World. Series
why because in The American, league who do The yankees
even Without Garrett cale now Without heel without stand for a?
While The American, league who are they dealing? With who
(36:33):
do they have to get? Through then you look at
The National. League you've got to get through The. Dodgers
you've got to get through The, braves you got to
get through The, phillies maybe a little bit The, plotgers
but particularly The. Dodgers you don't put yourself on the
same side of the draw as The Los Angeles. Dodgers
and that's What soto did by going to The. Mets
and if he ends up winning three rings over the next, twelve,
(36:53):
thirteen fourteen, years god bless. Him BUT i just think
he made it that much harder to do by going
to The National.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
YEAH i think THAT'S i think that's really well. PUT i, Mean,
god The podres are. YOUNG i mean LIKE i have
like either six six or seven really good players in their.
Prime had a guy that could have Been rookie of
The year last. Year dodgers are stacked acunya back for The.
Braves it really. Is and for the, record you, know
(37:26):
nobody would be shocked if The phillies end up in
the you, Know National League Championship series against The. Dodgers so,
yeah WHEREAS i feel like we've seen the best Of,
HOUSTON i kind of feel like we've seen the best of.
It maybe that's not, true but some of those players
that were in their prime four years ago or they're
just you, know it doesn't feel quite the.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Same, so you, know The Red sox are better with breg,
mean they're a fact. Now and, yeah so you, know
The yankees will have to certainly deal with, them but
they own The Central every, year whenever they play one
of those teams in the, playoffs they. Win and so,
YEAH i just that's really WHAT i looked at more
than anything else when so was making a. Decisions, First
(38:07):
i'm not Leading Aaron. Judge is it possible that he, Said,
okay we're the modern Day ruth And. Gereg he's always
going to Be. Ruth i'm always going to Be. Gereg
IF i go to The, Mets i'm There. Ruth and
he's the best player they've likely ever. Had and SO
i don't know if being the, man for lack of
a better, term Was i'm courting to. Him it's not
(38:29):
something he ever, verbalized but now there's no question that's
his team with The. Yankees it was always going to
be one in ONE a and he was ONE. A
my suspicion is human nature being what it is that
was something of a factor in his.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Decision ian, O'Connor he'll have a book coming. Out it's
a while down the, road in about six seven. Months
it's With Dan, Hurley Never Stop, Life leadership and what
it takes to be. Great Dan hurley coming out In
september one of my. Favorites now you're not writing a column.
ANYMORE i know that was your, choice just you know
(39:06):
the regression of that side of the. Business everything, Changes
you're busier with your family than. Ever do you just
wake up one day and, Say i've been a columnist
a long, TIME i want to do the book.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Thing that pretty much was. IT i was doing, both
and it got to a point where the workload was
such THAT i don't know IF i could do books
the WAY i want to do them and dive in
and talk to hundreds of people and report the hell
out of these things and still write four or five
columns a. Week And i'm not Saying i'll never go
(39:38):
back to. IT i don't know If i'll go back
to it full. Time, yeah column writing is a little
bit of a lost. Art it's. UNFORTUNATE i still think
there's a real place for it and commentary in this,
country and there are some people who are just incredible.
Calumnists and obviously we Lost John, feinstein who was a
great commis beside being an, author and he was SOMEONE
i always looked up to as just a guy who
(40:01):
was great at both and could do both and was
so prolific AND i admired that and envied. It and
one thing About, John and let's say you're the same
Way colin right running to you. Somewhere we could just
have a regular conversation talk about five million. Things john
was a real titan of the. Industry and yet AND
i used to tell him, this we'd sit down at
(40:22):
The masters and have conversations about. Anything AND i, say
a lot of people who've achieved what you have in
our industry would not have this conversation with. Me you
just would be. Unapproachable don't ever. Change if you, Change
i'm going to call you out On and he used to.
Laugh so if you ever got a little, arrogant which
he would at, TIMES i would, say are you turning
(40:44):
into that? PERSON i warned you not to turn Into
and we would get a kick out of. That but,
Yeah so there's a person who did it for so
long at such a high, level both being a columnist
a lot of college basketball but other sports as, well
and an. Author that's the AND i really looked up
to in this, business probably more than.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Anyone how was the Book season on The brink viewed
among writers? Transcendent?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yeah it still. Is AND i think his passing, unfortunately
BUT i think we'll send younger people maybe who didn't
get a chance to read, it back to that and
and and look at it and see it created a
genre of books and it was just so so. Good
and WHEN i WHAT i love column is That COACH.
K And i'm, Sorry i'm not going to be able
(41:30):
to credit the reporter who got this, interview But i'd
have been peteammam. M i'd have Been pat. Forty but
somebody talked To COACH k the other day and When
john passed, away and he said that he basically Said
knight didn't understand That john really did him a. Favor
he he Showed Bob, knight the Real Bob, knight to the,
reader to the, fan and that that's that book was
(41:52):
a great, book and it Portrayed knight the right way
and it was very. Fair AND i was glad That
COACH k said that on the record because WHEN i
read that, BOOK i did not Think knight was portrayed
as a. Monster AND i KNOW i didn't, either BUT
i think a lot of, PEOPLE i Think bob might
thought he was portrayed as a as a, monster and he.
Wasn't he humanisted him in, FACT i thought he did
(42:13):
him a. Favor so, yeah that that. BOOK i have
never met a sports writer as bitter as sometimes we can.
Be whoever said anything but just extraordinary things about that. Work,
now some Of john's other books maybe didn't max that
would be impossible to churn out book kept matching that
(42:33):
that level of. Greatness but that is right there With
moranis's book On Vince lombardi as among the two or
three best sports Books i've ever.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Read ian O'Connor is ALWAYS i love talking to, you.
MAN i WISH i lived out see you more. Often,
yeah well i'd.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Listen it's it's always an honor to be with you
and a pleasure and just thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Me
Host
Colin Cowherd
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