Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk NFL!
They start with Matthew Stafford deciding to stay in LA, debate whether the Rams asking price of a 1st round pick was too steep, and explain why Stafford would be crazy to leave the Rams in pursuit of more money (2:45).
They discuss the pending roster cuts the Eagles are facing after their Super Bowl win and debate whether the Eagles should keep linebacker Zack Baun or wide receiver A.J. Brown or cut/trade both in order to keep their dominant offensive and defensive lines intact (10:30).
They talk about how the infusion of NIL money has changed the game when drafting “celebrity quarterbacks” from college and why it’s given more leverage to prospects, and whether Shedeur Sanders could overplay his hand in that environment (17:30).
They discuss Jerry Jones’ skipping his typical press conference at the combine after the Deebo Samuel to the Commanders move, why Dak’s contract will sink America’s Team and why Dallas might draft a quarterback in an early round (28:45).
They break down why the ambiguity surrounding Sam Darnold’s future is just the Vikings doing Sam a “solid” after a great season, and predict the Vikings will end up rolling with J.J. McCarthy (38:00).
They discuss the top quarterback prospects and why their landing spot will matter and compare them to recent prospects with tremendous physical gifts like Jalen Milroe and Anthony Richardson, and why those types of prospects rarely hit (41:15).
They talk about the legacy of Jimmy Johnson after announcing his retirement from broadcasting at FOX and why as both a coach and broadcaster, he’s had a lasting impact on the NFL (50:00).
Finally, Colin addresses the “California Haters” ahead of his move to Chicago and asks John about his move out of California to Arizona, whether he has any regrets and whether the state will have to make changes in order to continue being an engine of innovation (1:00:45).
Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!
#Volume #Herd #3andOut
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, we're gonna have a busy week
this week at the Volume. I think on Wednesday we
have Marcus Thompson, who covers the Warriors on the Steph
Jimmy Butler Connection now, which has been great for the
league and great for the Warriors. Mike mulva Hill, who
(00:24):
does research analytics for Fox. I bring him on once
a year. I'm gonna interview him tomorrow. Today, my buddy,
former NFL scout John Middlecoff. His podcast is three and out.
So it was interesting. I got a I got a
text today from a NFL executive. Apparently the Rams were
(00:46):
willing to move off Stafford, but they wanted a first
round pick. They wanted and and by the way, you
know the Raiders. We're gonna give him one hundred million guaranteed,
which I still think that'll be the upgrade the Rams make.
But it just to throw it out there, the Rams
(01:08):
were willing to make a move if they could have
two first round picks. What do you make of that?
I trust my intel. It's somebody pretty tied to the situation.
What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So you're saying that they would not have traded into
the Raiders for let's say a couple seconds.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Nope, they wanted a first it was, But it's interesting
they're so close to the super Bowl. It is interesting
that they would have considered that. Now you know, this
is somebody that is close to it, so it's interesting.
It's so hard to get close to the super Bowl, right, Like,
(01:45):
thank god, the Niners have twelve picks this year, so
that should fortify them and make give them another run
because they've got you know, secondary and O line issues.
But it's even great teams. I mean, Dynasty's close hard,
like like you're watching Kansas in this year and you're
like they're struggling to score points for the second year
in a role. I just it is interesting they would
have considered moving him for a first Well.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I think Sean McVeigh was very candid last week when
he was with his guy Whitworth's podcast, and he was
open to say, listen, we can't quantify this guy's value
to us on the field, but we can off the
field when it comes to our salary cap. And we
have limitations with a guy who's thirty seven years old. Yeah,
and I think you used to have a line was
(02:29):
that you can't there's not a happy, happier or something.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, don't try to get happier than happy.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And I thought this with Matt Stafford. Now, if they
would have acquiesced and a team would have traded picks
that would have made the Rams happy, would he have
given the thumbs up instead of taking the one year
forty We'll see what the you know in a week,
what the number actually turns out to be. I think
that it's not public kind of shows you that, you know,
the Rams didn't just give him a one hundred and
(02:57):
ten million dollars, right they And I think Sean McVay
today on McAfee it's year to year thing. Yeah, right,
So I would imagine they gave him a little bump
up and raise, but relative to the rest of the league,
he's not making what he's making. My take was this,
I'm not into telling someone to quote unquote take a
pay cut or what money means to them. But he's
accumulated before this season even starts, three hundred and sixty
(03:20):
million dollars, right, So I would imagine if his accountant's
done pretty well. I know he's got a big family,
probably nine figures in the bank and working for him
and investments like Mats Stafford's doing really really well. Not
only will he never think about it as family, never
will So it doesn't get any better than Sean mcvaigh,
does it. Why would he want to leave?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well, it's just I saw a story today where Fred
Kupele said that Brooks Koepka, if he could, would go
back to the PGA Tour from the Live Golf. And
again I think I do think generational wealth does make
you happy for maybe twelve months. You know, it's you.
You get this kind of money, you set up trusts
with your kid or you. You know, you buy that
(04:02):
third home if you're Brooks Kopka in that fourth car,
and it does give you a sense of independence. But
ultimately people john not to be Tony Robbins here. People
like to be part of something, you know, It's not
just the money. Like the PGA Tour is part of
something and it's an established something and there's credibility with it.
That's not a shot at the Live Tour, which I've defended.
(04:24):
But the Rams are something in Los Angeles, well owned,
well run, well coached.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
The Raiders are a dream of what could be. The
Rams are something so I think I've always said this,
don't chase money, chase good management, and you'll eventually make
good money. Maybe not great money, but good money.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah. I think if you use the Live guys as
an example, you know, Phil got a couple hundred million dollars,
but he was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
His was more of an f you to the establishment, right,
d Chambeau, Brooks and DJ. These guys are not in
NFL players, so they get offered on one hundred and
eighty million dollars. It is hard that changes their life.
(05:05):
Matt Stafford making an extra fifty million dollars, I mean
you're talking after taxes or whatever, he's taken home twenty
eight thirty million dollars is not gonna change him or
his family's life at all. But it will impact his
football life, which, like you said, the Raiders or the Giants,
which were the teams that look like all in, are
not gonna win next year. It's just not gonna happen, right,
I don't even think it's possible with the Raiders, right,
(05:27):
do you just to compete in that division, even if
you have a huge upgrade at coach? I think spy
Tech is a young up and comer, but to think
twenty twelve and Matt Stafford is living in the moment.
So to me, the risk of getting the extra money,
if it would have gone through, would have sent him backwards.
I think in his football career what we saw forever
in Detroit, he finally I felt like when he got
(05:48):
to Sean McVay got to validate the career. This guy
with all this talent. Honestly, these last couple years, even
more than the Super Bowl year, it was like Matt Stafford,
I mean, doesn't get much better than that, And I
think it would have kind of been sad because it
would have impacted the Rams. I'm sorry, Jimmy Garoppolo or
forty one year old Aaron Rodgers. It would have been
(06:11):
a drop off from Matt Staffords. So I'm just glad
that that he stayed and it worked out from a
football standpoint, because this they have a good offseason, a
couple moves here and there. I mean, who's to say
that they are, you know, top two or three favored
in the NFC to be a you know, win the
Super Bowl or represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, I mean I think that game against Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Says it all.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
They're driving in a snowstorm and they get down to
the fifteen yard line and they have a rookie center,
six round pick, and they had finally gotten their offensive
line right. And by the way, Philadelphia was a better team,
better overall personnel. They almost snuck out of that puppy
with a W and so. And I've said this, McVeigh
doesn't really rebuild. Shanahan feels like he follows up great
(06:53):
seasons with clunkers. If like Christian McCaffrey's not healthy, McVay
wins every year. It's just they don't really they reboot.
They don't necessarily rebuild the I was I think.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You know, you know one major difference I think the
two right now is McVeigh has I thought Kyle, because
of his personality, would be a little more cutthroat. He's
been emotional when it came to Debo re signing him
and keeping him last year. With Ayuk McVeigh, it's like
Jalen Ramsey cut you off Sea Cooper Cup this year,
we're moving on right this offseason Stafford one year deal.
(07:25):
That's it. Where it's like the Niners found themselves in
this weird predicament of they've got emotional with some of
these players, and McVeigh kind of went to his grandpa's roots.
Of Walsh, it's like, yeah, we're done here, and he's
had to tactfully change, you know. With Goff, he was
a little too outspoken and even he said that like
I handled that wrong publicly. But this is a business.
(07:47):
We have to make tough decisions. And I think the
forty nine ers found themselves in a rut because they
they tied themselves to every single player instead of you know,
in football, the guy can be a good player, but
you gotta pivot. You can't sign them all.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Well, I mean Philadelphia is in that spot right now.
Darius Slay is an easy cut. That's an easy one.
You and I any fan could make that because they
nailed their two. You know, they're two early picks at
corner right. The tougher pick is going to be do
you keep the linebackeror do you keep AJ Brown? And
I've said this before, I would move off Aj Brown.
It's in the NBA. When a big guy gets hurt early,
(08:22):
he gets hurt. Often when a receiver is verbal and
outspoken early they're outspoken often. Des Bryant didn't get quieter, right,
so Debo didn't get quieter.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I would move off.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
AJ Brown because you're so good at running back, O line, quarterback,
tight end, and Devonte Smith. I think that's an easy one.
But but you don't want to think like a fan.
But I think people will look at AJ Brown and go,
he's so good. It's wide receiver you can find. Really,
Pukainaku is a fifth rounder. I mean there's one or
two positions in the NFL cornerback, wide receiver, running back.
(08:58):
It's amazing how much talent there is in the fourth round. Like,
there's all sorts of examples. So like I look at
Philadelphia and Howie Roseman, who, by the way, you know
the organization. He said after the Super Bowl, this is
gonna look different. Not everybody's gonna love it. So to me,
that was a little bit of a caution. Guys were
moving off some popular talented guys. You don't say that
(09:20):
if you just have to cut Darius Sleigh. That's an
easy one that nobody's losing sleep on.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, to me, the AJ Brown one would only be
if they feel that relationship that Brandon Graham kind of
let the cat out of the bag and then they
tried to walk it back. It's like, come on, but
you know, winning cures all in their relationship. I mean,
he had a touchdown in the playoffs. He is, when healthy,
one of the best, what four or five six wide
receivers in the league. I think the only way they
(09:47):
would do something like that would be to clear up
some movement if they could get Miles Garrett, and by
all accounts, they are gonna be one of the lead
dogs in those moves. So I think the thing was
Zach Vaughn. This is what makes Howie and I would
just say, consistent football teams maintain it or not. It's like, yeah,
he's a good guy, he had an incredible season, but
(10:09):
are we gonna break the bank for a linebacker? And
his history would say the Eagles and good teams do not.
That's right, right. Let someone else give you four years,
eighty million dollars and forty five million dollars guaranteed. And
this is why you keep drafting and why you keep
investing it. And listen, part of being a good NFL
team takes some luck. Sometimes you got a guy one year,
(10:31):
four million dollars, first Team All Pro that's why you
pay Vic Fangio five six million dollars. You know that's
last year. He looked at this guy, special teamer, kind
of outside linebacker. Let's make him a middle linebacker under
my tutelage, Patrick Willison, Navarro Bowman, let's roll. So if
I was Howie, I'd go, well, my return on investment
(10:51):
is not the player, it's the coach. Why couldn't I
do this again? Why can't we find a guy in
the draft, maybe on the second day, second or third round.
Let fans you a mold them like a piece of clay.
He did it with Navarro Bowman. Why couldn't he That's
the best case scenario. But no one in a million
years in the NFL would it, said Zach Bond, first
Team All Pro middle linebacker. No chance. And that's that
(11:12):
you know football more than all these other sports. The
power of these coordinators, if you get it right, I mean,
look at Spagnola, look at some of the offensive coordinators
over the years, can change your franchise, right because it's
you're not paying them player money, you're paying them four
five six million dollars.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
It's amazing to me how fans really really struggle and
and like to me, aj Brown and Bonner the linebacker
are pretty easy moves because I'm not going to disrupt
that O line probably for the next three years.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I'm I mean, I'm that old line.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Maybe in two to three years Lane Johnson retires, but
the core of that organization to me is now Saquon
Jalen Hurts and that old line. Everything else. To me,
I'll move. But you're finding this with Detroit. It's really
I mean, think how great people thought Dak was. I mean,
people really thought Dak was a top five quarterback when
the Cowboys O line five years ago. Those guys were
(12:09):
all closer to their prime. Now we look up and
go Jesus that Dak's the most overpaid guy in the
NFL by a long shot. So you know, I just
think when I look at like when Tyreek Hill, Andy
Reid moved off him, I never forget the day it happened.
I was like, yeah, of course you move off him,
like you got look at the Pick State guy at
the time. I'm like, first round, second round, second round.
(12:31):
I'm like, Bret Fiach is going to hit on at.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Least half of these.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Of course you make the move. He's a deep threat.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Those guys don't mean much in December and January when
it's freezing and windy. So I mean the AJ Brown
one is easy. I'll go back to it. When a
receiver Deebo is a prime example, when they start getting
outspoken early that doesn't go backwards and you're and by
the way, you won with him, you got to a
couple of Super Bowls. Like I also think there's there
(12:58):
at some point in a salary cap. Sport players become
commodities and there's just you have to move them. They're
chess pieces and you say, well, where's the humanity? Come on,
we all know the game here. This is the way
it is with pro sports. By the way, in college now,
kids leave their program all the time. They make promises,
they commit, they leave. We all know this is how
(13:19):
the game works.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Well, the one thing with AJ two, if that would
be something they wanted to do, he still has a
lot of value. I mean, he's still one of the
best players in the league. I mean you're not just
kicking him away like Debo for a fifth round pick.
It might bring you back like a second and a third. Yeah, right,
I don't know if you could get I mean they
traded a first form, could they get a late first.
I mean, some of those teams don't have the most
(13:42):
cap room, but you definitely probably get a second and
a third. Yep, you know, depends. I think there's always
other moves. He's not just getting rid of a player
to get rid of a player. You know that Milton Williams,
the defensive tackle that really came on, they would love
to keep. But guys like that are He's gonna get
twenty million dollars a year, That's right. So I think
they're always thinking. The one thing the Eagles have been
(14:03):
like since before I got there and ever since long
after I left, they will go big game hunting. I'm
telling you, if Miles Garrett this is the Browns can
say all they want, we're not moving on and listen.
I would understand if you're a well run, competitive team,
But given the Deshaun's situation, this is the time to
just blow the thing up. And to me, he would
(14:23):
net you multiple first round picks. So if that if
he's available, I think the Eagles would be front and
center with the package of things that they would put
in front of them to the land that player and
their owner and how you manipulate the salary cap is
you pay these insane bonus right right, it's everyone plays
under the same umbrella of the cap, but I can
cut you a bigger signing bonus, then that's where guys
(14:46):
sign up for.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, And for the record, fans tend to think all
these owners are even No, they're not. Stan Cronk, Jeffrey Lowie.
The Denver Broncos can pay more upfront than a majority
of the teams. I mean, the Chicago Bears are just
not an organization. I mean the packers have to get
everything a boot approved. The Bears don't have that kind
of money historically. I saw something today that came out
(15:11):
and I have a friend who has a business and
the business changed. It was not his fault, and just
the culture of his business changed three or four different
ways post COVID, and he's now stuck with sort of
a business that's not It lost about thirty percent of
its legs. And my wife and I had this discussion
the other day about something that you know, I own
(15:35):
a podcast company and now it's more of a we
call it more of a media company because we had
to grow and if you don't grow, you'll die, you'll
get eaten alive. And I was watching these stories about
Shador Sanders has come off, you know, as arrogant to
some people during interviews, and I was thinking about this.
Here's what's changed to last two classes. Quarterbacks are coming
(15:57):
into the NFL now as millionaires. And go back to
when you were twenty one years old or twenty two
years old, if you had like seven million dollars in
the bank, I would have been cocky, like cocky err
And you know, there was always this thing Bill Parcells
years ago, John said, don't draft celebrity quarterbacks. Well that's over.
I mean, these guys, I'm sorry. If you play at
(16:18):
Ohio State, you're a celebrity quarterback. If you play it
you know under Lincoln Riley or at Georgia, you're a
celebrity quarterback. I mean, Carson Beck is average and he's
a celebrity quarterback. And the other thing, though, is am
I wrong? You're a former scout that nil kids come
now and they're not starving, and they have a nice car,
(16:42):
and they may have two million in the bank. And
if they think the organization that's interviewing them is a
bottom tier organization, and they think to themselves. I don't
want to play for the blank. I don't want to
play for this team or that team or Cleveland. You know,
I'm going to come in with little I'm not saying
it's right, but I'm saying the world changes, and I
(17:04):
think nil for quarterbacks. These kids are coming into interviews
now with a little more leverage and with a stronger
opinion on themselves.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah. I've been talking to my buddies that are on
the road the last couple of years, and they will
tell you that, you know, at the Big Power for top,
I don't know, thirty forty programs, the parking lots look
like the NFL parking lots. For the college kids like
you go to the University of Michigan or Ohio State
or Penn State or Alabama or LSU, I would say
(17:35):
there are seventy or eighty brand new cars and from
everything I mean, Carson Beck just had a Lamborghini stolen,
and like you said, he's average. I think, you know,
part of this is talking to friends. They like it
because these guys are easy to evaluate. How they handled
they made let's say one point eight million dollars over
the last couple of years, and their work ethic, their accountability,
(17:57):
none of it changed. You know, Shador is much more
like a Peyton Manning or a Steph Curry, Like he's
a rich kid. I mean he grew up. He's Deon Sanders' son,
so he's he's been around the bright lights from day one,
right since the beginning. I think the questions people have
with Shadors. There was a famous line of Dion like
a I think the New York Giants wanted to interview
(18:18):
him at the combine and he asked him, like where
you draft and they said seventh. He's like, I'm not
wasting my time. But Dean could back it up because
he was one of the best prospects we've ever seen.
He became one of the great players we've ever seen.
These people look at you, you know, when they're interviewing Shador,
they don't look at him like he's Andrew Luck or
Caleb Williams, like he's not the best prospect they've ever seen.
So I think sometimes they look for a little humility
(18:40):
in that moment, and uh, I don't know. I think
Chador is going to be a fascinating case. I will
say this watching him as a player, like sometimes you
get the kind of that cockiness, you like, this guy's
kind of a fake fraud, not that tough like he
is tough, like you watch him play, Oh god getting
back up. So to me here there's an old school
nature to his game that he gets from his dad.
(19:01):
I think they would question his arms not great relative
to like elite prospects. Yeah, and even he admitted like
I got my mom's jeans as an athlete, not my dad.
So he's not an up rechelant athlete. And yeah, I
just think he's gonna be fascinating. Some people think he
could fall out of the top ten. Who knows. I mean,
there's not a quarterback. None of these guys are guaranteed.
Everyone thinks the Giants are gonna take one of these
(19:23):
court what if they just signed Sam Darnold, Like they're
not a get locked to sign any of these or
you know, draft any of these guys. So I think
cam Ward who has a much more I would say
gifted skill set, you know, just bigger arms, yeah, more
you just quicker athlete. You're also compared to the crew
you're in. Right, So when I'm interviewing people, guy come in,
(19:45):
Guy come out, Guy comes in, guy comes out, So
it's just kind of I'm living in the moment and
when you come off a little bit different, you know,
some guys are just rubbed the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are
all the new ways to get in on the action.
Raft King sports Book and official sports betting partner of
the NBA Slams, dishing the ball, cleaning the glass, get
behind your favorite players. Prop bets you can make on DraftKings.
It's fun the home of NBA player props. If you're
ready to place your first bet, make it really simple.
Pick how many points your favorite players going to score.
(20:16):
Go to Draft Kings sports Book. They have an app,
download it make your pick. If you're a first timer,
here's something special new DraftKings customers. All you have to
do is about five bucks. Get one hundred and fifty
in bonus bets instantly, So take it to the rack
with Draft Kings sports Book, Every point counts. Download their
app takes ninety seconds. Use the code column cli n
to get one hundred and fifty bones in bonus bets
(20:39):
betting just five only on DraftKings.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
The crown is yours.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler In New York
call eight seven seven eight ope and Y, or text
ope and Y four six seven three six nine In Connecticut.
Help is available for problem gambling called eight eight eight
seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG
dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino
when resorting in Kansas twenty one and over. Agent eligibility
varies by jurisdiction Voyd and Ontario. New customers only. Bonus
(21:05):
bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issue
wins four. Additional terms and responsible gaming resources see dkanng
dot co, slash Audio.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business brought to
you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the
Colin Cowhard Podcast. If you want to enjoy life simple pleasures,
reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single
barrel bourbon, you're getting over a century a craftsmanship packed
into every bottle. Hop on over to Greenriverwhisky dot com
and discover a legend in a bottle today. So there
(21:39):
was a moment this weekend. Jerry Jones canceled his interview
at the NFL Combine and the Cowboys have had a
rough couple of years. I mean, they gave away a
fourth round pick for Trey Lance. He couldn't beat out
Cooper Rush. I mean, if Kyle Shanahan Cammick a quarterback accurate,
he's not accurate. They give up a fourth round pick
for Jonathan Mingo, the wide receiver five catches for the Cowboys,
(22:00):
and again both those moves, you.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Know, we all kind of went.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Meanwhile, the Commanders gave up a fifth round pick for
Deebo Samuel. And it's really interesting as I look at Washington,
not just because of the result, but between Adam Peters,
Cliff dan Quinn, that move for Debo Jaden Daniels, and
(22:28):
I don't think, like a lot of times there's recency bias.
I honestly believe for the next decade, Washington is going
to be one of the three best NFC teams. And
I think what's happening with the Cowboys now, they're becoming
the old Al Davis Raiders. They feel like they are honestly,
they are lost at sea. I mean they are giving
(22:52):
away draft picks now. I mean people don't understand they
may re work Dax contract. It's a ninety million dollar
cap hit that is over double Josh Allen. They can
rework it all they want to. What fifty eight I
(23:13):
said this a year ago. I said they're going to
start a decade of regression. It has happened so fast
in this league. Shit goes south so fast. What did
you make of the Debo only giving up a fifth
round pick?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Well, to me, you just look at the free agent
class and you go, well, we don't want to get
in any long because the whole thing was Washington has
all this cap space, they need some more weapons for Jayden,
and you look around you go, well, NFL free agency
is the most overrated thing because high end guys never
make it, and the guys that do you have to
pay an absolute premium to get. Remember a couple of
years ago, Christian Kirk got like four years ninety million dollars.
(23:49):
He actually turned out to be okay. But you have
to pay, you know, elite money for those guys. So
I can get Debo on a year to year contract.
I have all this space. All I have to give
up is a fifth round pick. In the nil era,
fifth six to seventh round picks feel like diminished and
watered down. I also think you get a guy who's
a little motivated. People are calling him fat, you know,
(24:10):
a little like Lucas style. Adam Peters knows the guy well.
Cliff Kingsbury. You know, when you think back to Arizona,
they used a lot of gadget players. Rondell Moore, the
Purdue guy, different type player, but guys you can get
behind the line of scrimmage, you know. I actually think
it's a good scheme fit. He has excelled when they've
had a route running wide receiver on the opposite side.
(24:32):
Terry McLaurin, Brandon Nyuk to me, if you get a
motivated Debo, it's a no brainer. We have all this
cap space. I give him seventeen All I have to
give up is a fifth round pick, and if you're
the forty nine ers, you aren't gonna pay him seventeen
million dollars here in a couple of weeks. So it's
I think it's kind of a win win. The Niners
are moving off, they don't have to eat any of
the money. They trade to a team where the general
(24:52):
manager was around not only drafting him, but his good
and bad moments, so knows his personality because the other thing,
I mean, you've been saying it for ever. Whyer See,
it's gonna be a little moodie. They got a little
like Hollywood actor to him. They need to be you
just you have to know their personality. It's very rare
to get like a Larry Fitzgerald. Most guys are more debo.
(25:13):
And Adam Peters knows this player really well. And I
think the Jerry Jones thing. How often in any business
that if the eighty year old patriarch of the operation
is around and his name's not Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway,
is it a healthy place to be when the guy's hovering.
He's made an ungodly amount of money, he does not
(25:33):
need to be there, and he's extra hands on. So Jerry,
you could argue, Jerry's ego feels like it's only grown.
As they've quote unquote struggled over the last decade relative
to some of their big seasons, and they've underwhelmed in
the playoffs, it doesn't feel like Jerry's gone. You know what,
I'm gonna let Steven and Will McKay and my coach
(25:54):
take a bigger role. I'm just I'm just gonna be
more of a figurehead. He always doubles down cutting the check.
My name's on that bad boy. I'm involved. I'm a
football guy, and he's not wrong. I mean, he played
college football, he's been around his whole life. But unlike
a lot of football guys, Jerry is addicted to business. Yeah,
and the business of his team is marketing and all that.
(26:15):
And it's just there's just a lot going on with
the Cowboys, and you know, Micah Parsons. You talk about
Dak's capit. If they do give Mike a new deal
and don't trade them, what's that deal? One hundred and
fifty million dollars guaranteed for quarterback contract?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Rudal?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
No. I mean, so they're in three guys at a
combine what like five hundred million dollars?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Crazy?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I mean, I just you can't have three different players
top of the market when only one of them, Ce
d Lamb is top five at his position in the NFL.
It's like, I mean, it's I had a very good
year last year, predicting, very bad year, picking individual games,
(26:55):
very good year, you know, picking teams. I got Washington
and Denver and some of the upstarts this year. I
think New England is going to be a surprise playoff team.
I think the Jets are going to go sideways a
little bit. They don't have a quarterback. I think Miami
I kind of think they've topped out a little bit.
All the motion and the tricks and smoking mirrors. I
(27:17):
think there's limitations there. I think New England's going to
be in play And my other one is I think
Dallas is potentially a five or six win team with
Brian Schottenheimer. I mean, I have the good news is
it's a good quarterback draft. I have to go out
and get one if I was Dallas this year. In fact,
I think I heard Stephen Jones say this. I had
another person tell me who I respect, keep your eye
(27:41):
on Kyle McCord out of Syracuse in the late second round.
Do not be shocked if the Dallas Cowboys do go
after Kyle McCord of Syracuse. Now they're not late second.
I think Dallas made trade down in the second round
to get a mid second pick. I am hearing more
(28:01):
and more, and I went and watched him about a
month ago. Kyle McCord throws a really nice ball and
I thought about this if he had stayed, because Will
Howard completed sixty one percent of his throws at Kansas State.
He goes to Ohio State and complete seventy three percent
of his throws. If you don't think that matters. If
if Kyle McCord stays at Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith
(28:24):
and Ibuka and the two NFL running backs and Kyle McCord,
who's a much better pro prospect than Will Howard, it's
not even. It's not Will Howard is like late fifth sixth.
In fact, somebody today texts me in the NFL he
thinks after the combine he's a seventh round pick.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I had a bad combine. Oh bad.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I think.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I think Kyle McCord is going to end up being
as good as any quarterback in that draft.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
This is my hottest take is that he'll he'll be
the guy.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Tell me I'm wrong, Well, I think yeah. I watched
a couple of Syracuse games this season and went, this
is the guy that Ryan Day because let's face it,
they blamed him for the Michigan loss two years ago
and he got kicked out, and so I listen, I
believed him. I was like Hey, this guy, if he
can't make it there, maybe they're right. And then you
watch him at Syracuse, who had their best season in
(29:16):
a while. He was spinning. He's got a big arms
hight spiral. I think him and Jackson Dart because there
are so many question marks with the top two guys
with Cam and Chador. If you're talking about two guys
you have to draft in the top I don't know
one guy in the top five, the other guy in
the top twelve. You can get these two guys. Historically,
McCord is not going to be a first round pick,
(29:37):
but even Jackson Dart would also have been a second
round pick. You could find the Derek Carrs, the Jimmy Garoppolos,
these guys that can start for you, and if you
do a good job building your team, you can win
with I think the problem for the Cowboys is if
you look at the Dak Era, they really only had
to deal with the Eagles, right, he just kind of
went back and forth over the last ten years, right
with Doug Peterson and then Sirianni Era. Well, now it's
(29:57):
not just the Eagles, it's Washington too, So you add
another team because Washington up until last year was a joke.
The Giants have been terrible for what a decade plus,
So now the Cowboys don't just have to deal with
the Eagles, they have to deal with Washington. I mean,
that's that's a huge problem. And even if they do
draft mccor Jackson Dart whoever, let's say they draft a
second round pick that does nothing for them in twenty
(30:20):
twenty five and honestly does nothing for them the next
couple of years. That guys, they're kind of just hoping
to get their Jordan love, which is good big picture
team building, but it does not help them trying to
beat the Eagles or Washington in Week seven when you're
three and three and your season kind of feels like
it's teetering, right, Yeah, the you know, it.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Was interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I had this take that Sam Donald so overachieved for
the Vikings that Kevin O'Connell and their young gm feel
like they owe Sam Donald. They owe him a solid
and everybody likes Sam impossible not to like if you
meet him, and so they have said publicly, we're not
sure what we're gonna do. We we we may resign him,
(31:10):
and everybody knows Kevin O'Connell, the tall Sean McVay is
a really good coach. Now I'm just I'm theorizing this,
but Kevin O'Connell knows what he's gonna do at quarterback.
He's gonna use JJ McCarthy. But they're doing a solid.
This is sort of like what McVeigh did to Baker Mayfield.
He told everybody, God, Baker was great. I've never seen
a guy work this hard. He was unbelievable. You do
(31:33):
a guy a solid who comes in, you want to
help him, you want a good reputation that I think
the Vikings know what they're gonna do, but they feel
like Sam is a better.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Guy than Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
And if those are the two best quarterbacks on the market,
they're gonna they're gonna say nice things about Sam to
get him the better deal. Because a lot of these teams,
like Vegas, it's gonna come down potentially to Sam and Aaron.
So my theory is, you know, Aaron's made a few
enemies in his career, you know, and he's got his
reputation that the Vikings are just doing this to get
(32:06):
Sam the better deal on the market.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, man, I do think last year kind of spoke
for itself. He did play really well. Yes, I mean
you and I coming on week in week out. He
just was that an MVP performance. I mean that throw
and that play he made against Seattle. Near the end
of the season, he thought like could he actually win
the MVP, And then those last two games I would say,
you know, kind of clouded his fantastic season. The hard
(32:35):
part is there were so much on the line in
those two games. He was horrendous. I think the difference
of the two is one I would struggle with Aaron
for any amount of money over like ten twelve million
dollars because you're getting a guy that doesn't want to
get hit. Yeah, it's naturally kind of moody with an
offensive coordinator, just a unique cat Sam. His value kind
(32:58):
of is Baker Mayfield Like, it's not a super cheap deal.
So you're talking I would say eighty to one hundred,
but it is You're getting to bed with him for
a couple of seasons, even if it's the Daniel Jones contract,
that's a multiple year contract, so that there becomes pressure
on that. I think, you know, the Giants are kind
of in win now mode, right, you know, doesn't make
(33:18):
more sense. Let's just go with Aaron Rodgers and maybe
you know, veteran quarterback who knows what we do. If
we get with Sam Darnold, it doesn't work. All of
a sudden, we're in a weird spot. I think, Sam,
like all these quarterbacks, you're you're gonna be much better
with a good with Sean McVay, with Kevin O'Connell, with
Kyle Shanahan. You get with some of these coaches like
you're just not. Let me look at Ebra Fluce and
Caleb in that situation. Now we'll find out how good
(33:41):
Caleb actually is. But he had no chance last year.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Well, this is funny about the draft. I was talking
to somebody in the league about Jalen Milroe, and you know,
this person likes Jalen's story and his parents and the kid.
He thinks he's a much better Anthony Richardson. But he
(34:04):
did say to me, he said, but if he goes
to a defensive coach and it's a first time offensive coordinator,
he goes Jayleen Milroll is going to.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Look really bad. He said.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Now if he goes to you know, he goes to
a there's an offensive sensibility or he goes to a
you know, an offensive head coach where he doesn't have
to start. He said, the kid is physically he is
a better athlete than Anthony Richardson, Like he just will
run people over or run by them. And he said
he throws a gorgeous deep ball. Anthony Richardson doesn't throw
(34:36):
a gorgeous anything. But to your point, with Darnold and Gardner,
Minshew with Shane Steichen almost made the playoffs in Las Vegas,
it was a mess. And I think that's how I
feel about this year's quarterback class. I really do, John,
Where do they land now? I think cam Ward is
talented enough to overcome a little nonsense and you get
(34:59):
one of those guys in ye where they're just kind
of good enough to make it work to some degree.
But I think every other guy in this drafting, Jackson Dart,
Jalen Milroe, Kyle mclory, shud Or Sanders, they get poor coaching,
they get a battle line.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
It could be ugly fast.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
You know. Someone asked me, like, what's the difference between
Jalen Milroe and Anthony Richardson. I said, well, Anthony Richindson
had a lot of unknown Jalen's the problem with Jalen
is we've seen two years at Alabama as a starter.
If he only had nine games for Alabama, he would
be a lock first round pick. We can mold them,
we can figure it out. His sample size was too big,
(35:36):
the thing Anthony Richardson had going for him, small sample size,
and then the bigger it got Trey Lance one year starting.
If he had started three years, would people have been
off the scent? And that's where some of these guys
that have been three or four year starters. You got
Will Campbell. Everyone's picking him apart. The guy's been a
four year starter at LSU, had left at he might
end up being a guard, but I'll promise you he's
(35:58):
gonna start in the NFL for a decade. Right, he
might be a guard, but he's going to start in
the NFL for a decade. And I understand where he
pushes back. Everyone's bitching about my arms. Show me where
I'm getting beat because of my own But sometimes Logan
Mankins was a left tackle at President State. They moved
him a guard pro bowler. The thing with quarterbacks, the
accuracy thing does rattle people, and we have recent examples
(36:20):
Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson who were listen. Sometimes you swing
for the fences, Aaron judge five hundred feet. Sometimes you
strike out, and you know, Anthey Richinson, let's face it
looks like a whiff. YEA. Their GM comes out and says,
we got to bring in competition. If you're saying that
year three about the guy you drafted in the top five,
it's a problem. Ye trade. Lance was traded before whatever,
before year three started. So I think those two guys
(36:43):
serve as Jalen and where people talk themselves in on
Anthey Richardon and Chris Ballard wasn't alone. People really like
the kid. They that's you know Shador. These interviews people
said Anthony richards blew them away. We love them, And
I think Jalen Milro same type deal. Look at look
at the similar parallels of all the sabing quarterbacks. They
handle the room pretty well, right they walk in. You
(37:05):
go back to AJ mccaron, to the dude calling ESPN games, McElroy,
all the way through the group of the last five
six years. They all handle the room well. The problem
is that only goes so far. Can you complete the
eighteen yard out route right or you're gonna hit the
trainer on the sideline. And I think Jalen Milroe, like
(37:26):
Anthony Richinson, like I've learned this because I lean the
physical traits, the accuracy thing, it's just a non start.
The Josh Allen thing is a historic outlier, and I
think people kind of chase that. It's like, I don't
know if we're ever seeing that again in his story
right bouncing around begging people to sign it. It's just
he's just in his own little box. Yeah, you know so,
(37:49):
And I think everyone's kind of chasing that, like that's
not gonna happen again.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I want to talk about Jimmy Johnson. He retired on
my show today and he's got he made three Hall
of Fames, and I said it on the air as
Jimmy and I had great conversations about, you know, stuff
behind the scenes. Ninety percent of it didn't make the air,
and it was just good. Ninety percent of it was
just filler and information to me that I can then
(38:21):
pass on to the audience. But some stuff Jimmy told
me I would never pass on. And that's that's part
of what you and I do, Like we have sources,
we have friends, I protect them. Jimmy told me some
stories that are so outrageously funny that you could never repeat.
But you know, thinking about Jimmy Johnson, one of the
(38:41):
cool things about sports is it gets smarter over time.
And like, for instance, in basketball, now we shoot too
many threes, but for years, you know, somebody finally said,
you know, the math is way better. If you shoot
threes over twos, the math works out better. And you know,
it's like in baseball, you know what strikeouts, they're not
(39:04):
the end of the world. Ground balls are so just
you know, we have more efficiency, we have more numbers,
more math. You know, for years, the strikeout in baseball
was like, ah, the inning ender. No, the inning ender
is the ground ball. And you look at the NFL
as I don't think people some of our audience knows this,
but people did not make trades before Jimmy Johnson made
(39:27):
that herschel Walker deal. It was just so rare. Now
they make more trades by far than the NBA. And
do you take me back, because you obviously are younger
than me, I can remember the herschel Walker trade, and
again I may be dating myself. I can remember the
reaction people. I mean people celebrated the Minnesota Vikings like
(39:51):
they stole herschel Walker, And in the end, it is
the seminal moment that built the dynasty in Dallas. Tell
me your thoughts about that moment. Jimmy Johnson, what do
you remember him for?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Well, you know, growing up in northern California, the forty
nine Ers might as well have been the Yankee. I
was born in eighty four, so by the time I
was coming into my own as a sports fan ninety one,
ninety two, ninety three, I have vivid memories of watching
the NFC championship games that the forty nine Ers could
not win, and my father, like most forty nine Ers fans,
(40:28):
were not big Steve Young guys because Joe Montana might
as well have been Michael Jordan meets Jesus, and it
was not going well, and I just remember those teams
were so good. But in twenty twenty, the Super Bowl
was held in Miami and it was the forty nine
Ers in the Chiefs and Fox had it, and I
went to do a three and out podcast. You were there.
(40:50):
I was hung out in Miami for three or four days,
and I went to the Chiefs Hotel and I was
with some of the guys with the Chiefs and they said,
you'll never believe this. But yesterday Andy, because the Fox
guys came to practice, he had Jimmy talk to the team.
And most of these guys don't know Jimmy as a coach,
let alone like he was once upon a time, like
(41:11):
the best coach in the NFL and one of the
great like Pete Carroll right of the eighties and nineties
winning in college anna the pros and said, and these guys,
I mean, the guy telling me the story had been
in the NFL for twenty plus years, still on the
staff to this day, said he had never seen a
pre game. It wasn't in pregames, but you know it's
like Tuesday or Wednesday. Everyone the hair on the back
(41:33):
of their neck stood up. Like He's like, Jimmy doesn't
still got it. He could coach this team, lead us
out to the super Bowl, and he said, the place
went nuts. And it's just one of those personalities. And listen,
Jimmy's not the biggest guy. He always had. I mean,
I remember him as the head and shoulders guy when
when I was a kid on the commercials with his hair.
But he said, of all the people that coach read
(41:55):
and all the people that he's just seen come in
from the outside and give a speech, it wasn't even close.
That was the best thing that he's ever seen. And
I think some guys and this is like, I'm glad
that Sean McVeagh didn't go to Amazon. Like the NFL
benefited because Jimmy played a big role on Fox and
Fox getting the NFL changed the course of the NFL
(42:15):
business big picture, but they did lose I mean a
pretty special coach. I mean, it's cool to see Pete
Carroll come back, like these people belong and you talk,
you're around a guy like Jimmy, even those who were retired.
How often does he talk to Andy Reid, Bill Belichick?
Like those are his people? Yes, you know, he has
more in common with them than he does you know,
(42:36):
media people, even though he'll go down as one of
the great television personalities with a sport in the history
of the league. But yeah, I mean, I just remember
being this having described that that kind of speeds that
he gave to the team. Andy's no dummy, you know,
He's like, hey, Jimmy, you know, and he said it
was fantastic. But I remember Jimmy and those Cowboys beating
(42:57):
the forty nine I remember they beat him in a rainstorm,
I think the second straight NFC Championship game. And as
a kid, a lot of people thought that Steve Young.
I mean, can you imagine the story in twenty twenty five,
the version of getting rid of Joe Montana for Steve
Young and then constantly losing to this other team. So
it was a really big deal when I was a
kid of the Cowboys beating the forty nine ers.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
It was funny talking to Jimmy about the Miami days,
Miami Hurricanes and you know, the convicts against the Catholics,
and he was so proud about how many kids had
made like you know, the honor roll, and how he
was like, you know, people just thought we were a
bunch of dummies. He goes, He goes, we had a
lot of good students on that team. He goes, you know,
(43:41):
it was Miami. He goes, there were kids that like
to go out and chop it up, and he goes,
that was part of it. He goes, But he goes,
you don't he goes, cause I had to ask him
me one time, I may have been on the air
or off and I said, Like, if I said, what
is the one quality of a great team and asked
Jimmy this on more than one occasion, he always gave
(44:02):
the same answer. Intelligence. He goes, players have to be
willing to learn, learn quickly, and then develop. And he goes,
Guys that don't do their work, guys that just are
slow learners. He goes, it doesn't work. Great teams are
intelligent teams, and he goes because he goes, especially in
(44:23):
the NFL, the margins are so tight. This stuff all
comes down to situational football. Kansas City was not as
good as Philadelphia, but the last two years the Chiefs
have been so good situationally. That's just smart dudes who
have been around the Joe Tooneys and the Kelsey's and
the Mahomes. Those dudes have been around in big games.
So I mean, I think you brought you talked about
this the Kansas City Chiefs when they were miking them,
(44:44):
those players were like, you know, when they won that
Super Bowl post Tyreek Hiller like we just want we
barely even know the defense. Like the following year, it's like,
you know, so it's One of the things Jimmy Owa's
preached was you've got to have player. You cannot develop
players if they're not willing learners, if they're not willing
to put the time in with the playbook, with the schemes.
(45:07):
You need fast thinkers. And so he just wasn't about
getting players. I mean, he told me, those Miami teams,
he go, Colin, we struggled to get elite offensive linemen.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
You know, he goes.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
You know, places like New Jersey would have four or
five of those guys. He goes, we struggled to convince
them to come down to Miami. They're like, well, is
that a good school, And he's like, yes, he said. So,
you know, people forget that those Miami teams weren't stacked.
We weren't getting five star guys in the offensive line.
He goes, But our guys developed. And it's just I
(45:42):
got to tell you. If you're in your twenties, you
do not remember Jimmy Johnson's Miami Hurricanes, but they were.
You had to watch them when they played the big
games Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn State. They had
they were the run in Rebels with Tark with Stacy
Augman and Larry Johnson. They were like outlaws in their
own sense, and it was unbelievable television.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I'd even say the Cowboys team he built, you know,
I mean we argue this a lot with could these
players play now or play before? I mean that offensive
line that just road graded for Emmon Smith with Troy,
with Michael Irvin, that offense was just I mean with
North Turner, who was really like a Sean McVay Kyle
(46:27):
Shanahan thirty years ago as an offensive coordinator. I mean
Troy Aikman still squares by him, but building that team,
I mean that move he made to then accumulate. And
this is back in the day, Like we don't have
this really anymore because there's a clear line of like
coach and GM, they kind of work together. These gms
are also famous, Like he was the GM, right, he
was the coach the GM, And that's what pissed Jerry off,
(46:49):
which I would say is one of the more famous
front office breakups in at least in my lifetime, Jimmy
Johnson and the forty nine ers kicking out Jim Harbaugh. Essentially,
it felt like those two huge personalities that you just
don't win. Like you get rid of a coach, people
are they will side with the coach who's a championship
level guy every single time. But I just remember those
(47:10):
Cowboys teams being so And the other thing is I
think people like big personalities or party guys. I mean
those Cowboy teams had they were run like a cocaine
ring with strippers and stuff. But even Dion, you know,
a huge personality. I remember asking Bobby April, who was
a special teams coordinator with the Atlanta Falcons in the
late eighties early nineties, about Dion. He said, listen, Deane
shooting music videos. He's doing all this stuff. He was
(47:33):
always the guy sitting in the front of you know,
our meeting. He learned anything I'd give him, he would
pick up like that. And on the practice field, I've
never seen a guy work harder. So I think sometimes
these old school guys because like, oh Michael Jordan was
drinking all the time, we'll get on the practice court
with him. Oh Michael Irvin hasn't slept, Lawrence Taylor hasn't
(47:54):
slept well. Then practice starts like they are. There is
no rep off, there's no low management with these guys.
Different breed, you know, different time, different breed. But when
I think of those teams, I just think of like
you could put those teams right now in twenty twenty
five and they would wreck shop.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, and there are you know, it's funny Lawrence Taylor, A,
Michael Jordan, and Michael Irvin. I've always I've known guys,
not many, but I've known a handful of guys that
they're just wired different. They got different genetics, and they
can play thirty six holes of golf in South Carolina
and August and go out and party till midnight and
they're up at six and they can do it like
(48:33):
four straight days.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I do it once. I'm wrecked.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
I mean, some people need less sleep. You know, some
people do not need three or four you know, Kobe
Bryant was notorious, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Andy Reid, Like,
these guys aren't sleeping eight nine out. They don't need it.
I need eight hours to function more in mind to work.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
By the way, I was talking about this, We'll wrap
with this and again we have Marcus Thompson, who covers
the Warriors later this week. Michael Mulvahill, who does research
and analytics for Fox. Will be on later this week.
He's I bring him on once a year. He's got
great insight and every time I bring him on, people
just love Mike Moulhill.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
So he'll be on later this week.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
I'd say there's not a human alive beside in the
Curry family that knows Steph better and probably as a
closer relationship with Steph Curry than Marcos tops.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Yeah, he's mad, a great storyteller, such a good dude.
So as you know, I'm moving some of my operations
to Chicago, and you know what I've found really funny
And listen, I don't my wife was not a fan
of LA, but we both.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I like LA.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
I love California. I love Californians. I'm gonna move to Chicago.
Don't love the weather, but whatever. But you know about
the traffic, the taxes, the Yeah, I mean, listen, it's
it's a big city. It's I compare it to Rome.
It's just it's a lot, it's spread out, it's it
could take you two hours to drive across town. Yeah,
the taxes are expensive. I lived in Connecticut. Taxes weren't
(49:57):
cheap there. I like California I like people. There's a
lot I like about it. But we have a place
in the birds in Chicago. But it was funny. You know,
people will come up, but why are you moving here?
You know, I'll just say, yeah, you know, my wife's
got family here. I found myself this weekend defending California
and I said this to somebody. I said, listen, you
ever been on Google? Ever watched Netflix? You ever watch YouTube?
(50:22):
You ever used docu sign? And I started naming these companies.
I'm like, they're all California founded and based, and there's
a lot of smart people that built those and despite
the taxes and regulations, they still built. Like the six
of the ten biggest companies in America are California based.
And it's funny you live in California and there's so
much I love about it. I do think it's outrageously expensive,
(50:45):
and I do think there's a lot of waste, and
the politics can get very wacky and Sacramento. But I
thought of you when I defended him. After I thought,
I'm gonna ask middle Coff. You moved out of California
and you're happy getting married soon, You're very very happy.
How do you look at leaving California. Do you miss
(51:05):
it ever?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
No, I think it's the best move I've ever made
without hesitation in my adult life. I would say there
is a big difference between southern California and northern California. Yeah,
I mean you can get a lot more sun than
we got up there, and the prices are the same
and depend on where it could be. Palo Alto in
some of these areas Danville, I mean are most expensive
areas in like the world. Yeah, so you factor in
(51:30):
a lot of that. I do wonder big picture with California. Listen.
I got a brother who has a farming operation, like
he's gonna He's thirty five years old. He'll be there
the rest of his life. My mother lives there, my
friends and family live there. I go back there to
see these people. I do wonder Silicon Valley, which I
would say change the state financially, put it in a
different stratugy here those companies that you go back to,
(51:53):
you know, Apple and the companies in the eighties and
nineties that have taken off. And listen, I have a
lot of friends. When I graduated from cal it was
seven eight range. A lot of my friends went to
work in northern California for startup companies that turn or
early iterations of the facebooks right or you know Oracle
(52:13):
as it was really taken off in these companies and
they have financially the windfall that they've had at through
their thirties is you know, like being a backup point guard.
I mean, some of these it's been incredible. Are these
companies in twenty twenty five? You know the version of
Facebook or whoever going to start in Silicon Valley give
it how expensive it is to run your business there
(52:35):
and get people to come. And I just wonder, I mean,
you see what's happening in Florida, in Texas, in Vegas
and here in Arizona that it is so much more
lucrative if I was going to start a company the
version of what these have become. And that's the mindset
of all these people in Silicon Valley. It is so
much cheaper just to do it in Austin or in
(52:57):
Miami or And I just wonder, big pick sure the
Silicon Valley shift. I mean, you've seen it with Hollywood,
right that the movies, at least to my knowledge and
reading articles, are not shot there like they once were
right because it's so much cheaper. I have a buddy
that listens to this podcast that is the lead in
suits La. They shot that thing in Canada.
Speaker 3 (53:14):
Yeah right, No, No, I just.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Wonder, now there's historically there's always shifts back and forth. Yeah,
and you and I've spent time. You spent more time.
But I live in Philly for a couple of years.
I do feel like the wiring of those people. It
goes back and forth too. But they will draw a
hard line in the sand. Yeah, in California. I don't
know if you could ever get the complete pullback. I
don't know it's gonna be. It's gonna be a huge,
(53:40):
I don't want to say experiment, but it's gonna be
fascinating to watch over the next ten years. Can they
shift back because they're gonna have to to keep these coming?
They have the Apples, the Facebook's and oracles that they are.
They're there, But what about the new versions of these
companies over the next twenty thirty to fifty years. Will
they start and grow and come to fruition under their watch?
Or they have being in Vegas or in Dallas, Texas,
(54:02):
or in Glendale, Arizona, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yeah, no, I think it's it's a good point. We
we thought five years ago that all these companies like
Apple and Meta were far left, and to your point,
they drew a line in the sand, and those guys
were all sitting down with Elon Musk, you know, Inauguration Day,
like front and center making a statement. So I think
(54:28):
with big business there's always a line in the sand.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
People.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
I've said this before. You know, Bob Iger privately of
Disney is more conservative than he is publicly because he
runs an entertainment company and you kind of have to
lean left publicly, but privately you have to do business.
You know, you have you know, there's decisions you have
to make that you're not going to announce.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
But you know, it's just interesting.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
As I was, I was talking about California and and
and you know my life. My wife wasn't a big
fan of Los Angeles, my son wasn't. It's okay, I mean,
it's just a big city. But it is interesting when
when you say you're from California to people outside of California, man,
they have strong opinions. It's almost like the NBA, like
people don't even have to watch the NBA. They're going
(55:10):
to give their opinion of the NBA. And that's how
I feel when I'm in the Midwest. How California is.
People have been to it twice once It's Disneyland when
they were eight, and they got a big opinion on it.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Obviously, a lot of people in my life, I would say,
live in the greater San Francisco area, yeah, and have
for a long period of time and live good lives.
I do think they would be shocked to hear the
common theme the way humans talk about San Francisco. I
would say San Francisco is a more polarizing conversation in Chicago,
(55:41):
in Kansas City and than Los Angeles'. Yeah, yeah, right.
I would say San Francisco right now is probably viewed
by the average dude as the most toxic place in
America in terms of just polarizing of crazy listeness.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
I went to a Super Bowl in San Francisco. I
stayed at the Mark Hotel, which is like on top
of a hill. And again, I think people listen to me.
I'm kind of a moderate independent. I can lean left
on social stuff right on fiscal stuff. I didn't walk
around much at night, and this was is that eight
years ago? Like I remember being there seventeen. Yeah, I
(56:19):
remember being there and thinking this is not the same place,
at least not in this neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
And I went to the.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Same restaurant twice, the same piano bar twice. And no,
I'm I mean, listen, I'm I'm not somebody that just
I'm not somebody that listens to a lot of conservative
radio and I'm not here with the talking points. But
it's been really fascinating for me to you know, moving
some operation to Chicago and listening to people have an
opinion on California, and you know a lot of times
(56:46):
I just I just consume it. I'm fascinated, but it
is Boy, do people have an opinion.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Man. I think the other thing people would be shocked
about is the amount of money that your average employer,
as some of these places at Facebook and Oracle that
are my age right late thirties, early forties make I mean,
it's the money there. And this is why listen, a
lot of my friends don't love definitely the politics there,
(57:12):
and you know, they have young children in the school system.
Things can be really wacky, but it's really hard to
find eight hundred thousand dollars jobs. You know, when you're
a state school graduate, you know at these places that
you've been at for a long time, and you know
these the companies. You know, for my generation that graduated
into the financial crisis, the boom of Silicon Valley changed
(57:32):
a lot of people in my world's life. Now I'm
working in football making nothing as they are just taking
off like a rocket ship. And one thing I've heard
over the last I would say, six months, is they
are laying people off constantly. They go, what do you there?
They're doing the elim So what do you do? You know,
because you start, you lay off ten employees, you could
be you know, if they average compensation seven hundred and
(57:54):
fifty thousand dollars, they can add up pretty fast. Yeah.
And you know, as they got so big that you
weren't paying at ten over the last couple of years,
I think and listen, Elon takes a lot of shit.
When he bought Twitter, he basically did, what's everyone doing here?
This place isn't making any money? And secretly, I think
everyone else in Silicon Valley kind of was able to
fall suit, like six months later, much quieter.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
Yeah, I got a friend that works at Meta. Two
friends that work at Meta, and over the last three years,
Zuckerberg has gone into hyper efficiency mode, like he is.
Just every meeting that's what they discuss. So yeah, I
think people look at elon, but I think it's a
trend in that part of that sector and that part
(58:34):
of the country is we got big, broad, sloppy and
layers of bureaucracy. We're getting out of it. And so
it's anyway, it's just it's our last topic today. John
Middlikoff three announced the podcast as a former Californian who
kicked to the curb and is now golfing in December
and Scottsdale and loving life.
Speaker 2 (58:58):
Okay, take it easy, all.
Speaker 3 (58:59):
Right, buddy.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
The volume
The volume. All right, we're gonna have a busy week
this week at the Volume. I think on Wednesday we
have Marcus Thompson, who covers the Warriors on the Steph
Jimmy Butler Connection now, which has been great for the
league and great for the Warriors. Mike mulva Hill, who
(00:24):
does research analytics for Fox. I bring him on once
a year. I'm gonna interview him tomorrow. Today, my buddy,
former NFL scout John Middlecoff. His podcast is three and out.
So it was interesting. I got a I got a
text today from a NFL executive. Apparently the Rams were
(00:46):
willing to move off Stafford, but they wanted a first
round pick. They wanted and and by the way, you
know the Raiders. We're gonna give him one hundred million guaranteed,
which I still think that'll be the upgrade the Rams make.
But it just to throw it out there, the Rams
(01:08):
were willing to make a move if they could have
two first round picks. What do you make of that?
I trust my intel. It's somebody pretty tied to the situation.
What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So you're saying that they would not have traded into
the Raiders for let's say a couple seconds.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Nope, they wanted a first it was, But it's interesting
they're so close to the super Bowl. It is interesting
that they would have considered that. Now you know, this
is somebody that is close to it, so it's interesting.
It's so hard to get close to the super Bowl, right, Like,
(01:45):
thank god, the Niners have twelve picks this year, so
that should fortify them and make give them another run
because they've got you know, secondary and O line issues.
But it's even great teams. I mean, Dynasty's close hard,
like like you're watching Kansas in this year and you're
like they're struggling to score points for the second year
in a role. I just it is interesting they would
have considered moving him for a first Well.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I think Sean McVeigh was very candid last week when
he was with his guy Whitworth's podcast, and he was
open to say, listen, we can't quantify this guy's value
to us on the field, but we can off the
field when it comes to our salary cap. And we
have limitations with a guy who's thirty seven years old. Yeah,
and I think you used to have a line was
(02:29):
that you can't there's not a happy, happier or something.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, don't try to get happier than happy.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And I thought this with Matt Stafford. Now, if they
would have acquiesced and a team would have traded picks
that would have made the Rams happy, would he have
given the thumbs up instead of taking the one year
forty We'll see what the you know in a week,
what the number actually turns out to be. I think
that it's not public kind of shows you that, you know,
the Rams didn't just give him a one hundred and
(02:57):
ten million dollars, right they And I think Sean McVay
today on McAfee it's year to year thing. Yeah, right,
So I would imagine they gave him a little bump
up and raise, but relative to the rest of the league,
he's not making what he's making. My take was this,
I'm not into telling someone to quote unquote take a
pay cut or what money means to them. But he's
accumulated before this season even starts, three hundred and sixty
(03:20):
million dollars, right, So I would imagine if his accountant's
done pretty well. I know he's got a big family,
probably nine figures in the bank and working for him
and investments like Mats Stafford's doing really really well. Not
only will he never think about it as family, never
will So it doesn't get any better than Sean mcvaigh,
does it. Why would he want to leave?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well, it's just I saw a story today where Fred
Kupele said that Brooks Koepka, if he could, would go
back to the PGA Tour from the Live Golf. And
again I think I do think generational wealth does make
you happy for maybe twelve months. You know, it's you.
You get this kind of money, you set up trusts
with your kid or you. You know, you buy that
(04:02):
third home if you're Brooks Kopka in that fourth car,
and it does give you a sense of independence. But
ultimately people john not to be Tony Robbins here. People
like to be part of something, you know, It's not
just the money. Like the PGA Tour is part of
something and it's an established something and there's credibility with it.
That's not a shot at the Live Tour, which I've defended.
(04:24):
But the Rams are something in Los Angeles, well owned,
well run, well coached.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
The Raiders are a dream of what could be. The
Rams are something so I think I've always said this,
don't chase money, chase good management, and you'll eventually make
good money. Maybe not great money, but good money.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah. I think if you use the Live guys as
an example, you know, Phil got a couple hundred million dollars,
but he was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
His was more of an f you to the establishment, right,
d Chambeau, Brooks and DJ. These guys are not in
NFL players, so they get offered on one hundred and
eighty million dollars. It is hard that changes their life.
(05:05):
Matt Stafford making an extra fifty million dollars, I mean
you're talking after taxes or whatever, he's taken home twenty
eight thirty million dollars is not gonna change him or
his family's life at all. But it will impact his
football life, which, like you said, the Raiders or the Giants,
which were the teams that look like all in, are
not gonna win next year. It's just not gonna happen, right,
I don't even think it's possible with the Raiders, right,
(05:27):
do you just to compete in that division, even if
you have a huge upgrade at coach? I think spy
Tech is a young up and comer, but to think
twenty twelve and Matt Stafford is living in the moment.
So to me, the risk of getting the extra money,
if it would have gone through, would have sent him backwards.
I think in his football career what we saw forever
in Detroit, he finally I felt like when he got
(05:48):
to Sean McVay got to validate the career. This guy
with all this talent. Honestly, these last couple years, even
more than the Super Bowl year, it was like Matt Stafford,
I mean, doesn't get much better than that, And I
think it would have kind of been sad because it
would have impacted the Rams. I'm sorry, Jimmy Garoppolo or
forty one year old Aaron Rodgers. It would have been
(06:11):
a drop off from Matt Staffords. So I'm just glad
that that he stayed and it worked out from a
football standpoint, because this they have a good offseason, a
couple moves here and there. I mean, who's to say
that they are, you know, top two or three favored
in the NFC to be a you know, win the
Super Bowl or represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, I mean I think that game against Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Says it all.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
They're driving in a snowstorm and they get down to
the fifteen yard line and they have a rookie center,
six round pick, and they had finally gotten their offensive
line right. And by the way, Philadelphia was a better team,
better overall personnel. They almost snuck out of that puppy
with a W and so. And I've said this, McVeigh
doesn't really rebuild. Shanahan feels like he follows up great
(06:53):
seasons with clunkers. If like Christian McCaffrey's not healthy, McVay
wins every year. It's just they don't really they reboot.
They don't necessarily rebuild the I was I think.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You know, you know one major difference I think the
two right now is McVeigh has I thought Kyle, because
of his personality, would be a little more cutthroat. He's
been emotional when it came to Debo re signing him
and keeping him last year. With Ayuk McVeigh, it's like
Jalen Ramsey cut you off Sea Cooper Cup this year,
we're moving on right this offseason Stafford one year deal.
(07:25):
That's it. Where it's like the Niners found themselves in
this weird predicament of they've got emotional with some of
these players, and McVeigh kind of went to his grandpa's roots.
Of Walsh, it's like, yeah, we're done here, and he's
had to tactfully change, you know. With Goff, he was
a little too outspoken and even he said that like
I handled that wrong publicly. But this is a business.
(07:47):
We have to make tough decisions. And I think the
forty nine ers found themselves in a rut because they
they tied themselves to every single player instead of you know,
in football, the guy can be a good player, but
you gotta pivot. You can't sign them all.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Well, I mean Philadelphia is in that spot right now.
Darius Slay is an easy cut. That's an easy one.
You and I any fan could make that because they
nailed their two. You know, they're two early picks at
corner right. The tougher pick is going to be do
you keep the linebackeror do you keep AJ Brown? And
I've said this before, I would move off Aj Brown.
It's in the NBA. When a big guy gets hurt early,
(08:22):
he gets hurt. Often when a receiver is verbal and
outspoken early they're outspoken often. Des Bryant didn't get quieter, right,
so Debo didn't get quieter.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I would move off.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
AJ Brown because you're so good at running back, O line, quarterback,
tight end, and Devonte Smith. I think that's an easy one.
But but you don't want to think like a fan.
But I think people will look at AJ Brown and go,
he's so good. It's wide receiver you can find. Really,
Pukainaku is a fifth rounder. I mean there's one or
two positions in the NFL cornerback, wide receiver, running back.
(08:58):
It's amazing how much talent there is in the fourth round. Like,
there's all sorts of examples. So like I look at
Philadelphia and Howie Roseman, who, by the way, you know
the organization. He said after the Super Bowl, this is
gonna look different. Not everybody's gonna love it. So to me,
that was a little bit of a caution. Guys were
moving off some popular talented guys. You don't say that
(09:20):
if you just have to cut Darius Sleigh. That's an
easy one that nobody's losing sleep on.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, to me, the AJ Brown one would only be
if they feel that relationship that Brandon Graham kind of
let the cat out of the bag and then they
tried to walk it back. It's like, come on, but
you know, winning cures all in their relationship. I mean,
he had a touchdown in the playoffs. He is, when healthy,
one of the best, what four or five six wide
receivers in the league. I think the only way they
(09:47):
would do something like that would be to clear up
some movement if they could get Miles Garrett, and by
all accounts, they are gonna be one of the lead
dogs in those moves. So I think the thing was
Zach Vaughn. This is what makes Howie and I would
just say, consistent football teams maintain it or not. It's like, yeah,
he's a good guy, he had an incredible season, but
(10:09):
are we gonna break the bank for a linebacker? And
his history would say the Eagles and good teams do not.
That's right, right. Let someone else give you four years,
eighty million dollars and forty five million dollars guaranteed. And
this is why you keep drafting and why you keep
investing it. And listen, part of being a good NFL
team takes some luck. Sometimes you got a guy one year,
(10:31):
four million dollars, first Team All Pro that's why you
pay Vic Fangio five six million dollars. You know that's
last year. He looked at this guy, special teamer, kind
of outside linebacker. Let's make him a middle linebacker under
my tutelage, Patrick Willison, Navarro Bowman, let's roll. So if
I was Howie, I'd go, well, my return on investment
(10:51):
is not the player, it's the coach. Why couldn't I
do this again? Why can't we find a guy in
the draft, maybe on the second day, second or third round.
Let fans you a mold them like a piece of clay.
He did it with Navarro Bowman. Why couldn't he That's
the best case scenario. But no one in a million
years in the NFL would it, said Zach Bond, first
Team All Pro middle linebacker. No chance. And that's that
(11:12):
you know football more than all these other sports. The
power of these coordinators, if you get it right, I mean,
look at Spagnola, look at some of the offensive coordinators
over the years, can change your franchise, right because it's
you're not paying them player money, you're paying them four
five six million dollars.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
It's amazing to me how fans really really struggle and
and like to me, aj Brown and Bonner the linebacker
are pretty easy moves because I'm not going to disrupt
that O line probably for the next three years.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I'm I mean, I'm that old line.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Maybe in two to three years Lane Johnson retires, but
the core of that organization to me is now Saquon
Jalen Hurts and that old line. Everything else. To me,
I'll move. But you're finding this with Detroit. It's really
I mean, think how great people thought Dak was. I mean,
people really thought Dak was a top five quarterback when
the Cowboys O line five years ago. Those guys were
(12:09):
all closer to their prime. Now we look up and
go Jesus that Dak's the most overpaid guy in the
NFL by a long shot. So you know, I just
think when I look at like when Tyreek Hill, Andy
Reid moved off him, I never forget the day it happened.
I was like, yeah, of course you move off him,
like you got look at the Pick State guy at
the time. I'm like, first round, second round, second round.
(12:31):
I'm like, Bret Fiach is going to hit on at.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Least half of these.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Of course you make the move. He's a deep threat.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Those guys don't mean much in December and January when
it's freezing and windy. So I mean the AJ Brown
one is easy. I'll go back to it. When a
receiver Deebo is a prime example, when they start getting
outspoken early that doesn't go backwards and you're and by
the way, you won with him, you got to a
couple of Super Bowls. Like I also think there's there
(12:58):
at some point in a salary cap. Sport players become
commodities and there's just you have to move them. They're
chess pieces and you say, well, where's the humanity? Come on,
we all know the game here. This is the way
it is with pro sports. By the way, in college now,
kids leave their program all the time. They make promises,
they commit, they leave. We all know this is how
(13:19):
the game works.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Well, the one thing with AJ two, if that would
be something they wanted to do, he still has a
lot of value. I mean, he's still one of the
best players in the league. I mean you're not just
kicking him away like Debo for a fifth round pick.
It might bring you back like a second and a third. Yeah, right,
I don't know if you could get I mean they
traded a first form, could they get a late first.
I mean, some of those teams don't have the most
(13:42):
cap room, but you definitely probably get a second and
a third. Yep, you know, depends. I think there's always
other moves. He's not just getting rid of a player
to get rid of a player. You know that Milton Williams,
the defensive tackle that really came on, they would love
to keep. But guys like that are He's gonna get
twenty million dollars a year, That's right. So I think
they're always thinking. The one thing the Eagles have been
(14:03):
like since before I got there and ever since long
after I left, they will go big game hunting. I'm
telling you, if Miles Garrett this is the Browns can
say all they want, we're not moving on and listen.
I would understand if you're a well run, competitive team,
But given the Deshaun's situation, this is the time to
just blow the thing up. And to me, he would
(14:23):
net you multiple first round picks. So if that if
he's available, I think the Eagles would be front and
center with the package of things that they would put
in front of them to the land that player and
their owner and how you manipulate the salary cap is
you pay these insane bonus right right, it's everyone plays
under the same umbrella of the cap, but I can
cut you a bigger signing bonus, then that's where guys
(14:46):
sign up for.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, And for the record, fans tend to think all
these owners are even No, they're not. Stan Cronk, Jeffrey Lowie.
The Denver Broncos can pay more upfront than a majority
of the teams. I mean, the Chicago Bears are just
not an organization. I mean the packers have to get
everything a boot approved. The Bears don't have that kind
of money historically. I saw something today that came out
(15:11):
and I have a friend who has a business and
the business changed. It was not his fault, and just
the culture of his business changed three or four different
ways post COVID, and he's now stuck with sort of
a business that's not It lost about thirty percent of
its legs. And my wife and I had this discussion
the other day about something that you know, I own
(15:35):
a podcast company and now it's more of a we
call it more of a media company because we had
to grow and if you don't grow, you'll die, you'll
get eaten alive. And I was watching these stories about
Shador Sanders has come off, you know, as arrogant to
some people during interviews, and I was thinking about this.
Here's what's changed to last two classes. Quarterbacks are coming
(15:57):
into the NFL now as millionaires. And go back to
when you were twenty one years old or twenty two
years old, if you had like seven million dollars in
the bank, I would have been cocky, like cocky err
And you know, there was always this thing Bill Parcells
years ago, John said, don't draft celebrity quarterbacks. Well that's over.
I mean, these guys, I'm sorry. If you play at
(16:18):
Ohio State, you're a celebrity quarterback. If you play it
you know under Lincoln Riley or at Georgia, you're a
celebrity quarterback. I mean, Carson Beck is average and he's
a celebrity quarterback. And the other thing, though, is am
I wrong? You're a former scout that nil kids come
now and they're not starving, and they have a nice car,
(16:42):
and they may have two million in the bank. And
if they think the organization that's interviewing them is a
bottom tier organization, and they think to themselves. I don't
want to play for the blank. I don't want to
play for this team or that team or Cleveland. You know,
I'm going to come in with little I'm not saying
it's right, but I'm saying the world changes, and I
(17:04):
think nil for quarterbacks. These kids are coming into interviews
now with a little more leverage and with a stronger
opinion on themselves.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah. I've been talking to my buddies that are on
the road the last couple of years, and they will
tell you that, you know, at the Big Power for top,
I don't know, thirty forty programs, the parking lots look
like the NFL parking lots. For the college kids like
you go to the University of Michigan or Ohio State
or Penn State or Alabama or LSU, I would say
(17:35):
there are seventy or eighty brand new cars and from
everything I mean, Carson Beck just had a Lamborghini stolen,
and like you said, he's average. I think, you know,
part of this is talking to friends. They like it
because these guys are easy to evaluate. How they handled
they made let's say one point eight million dollars over
the last couple of years, and their work ethic, their accountability,
(17:57):
none of it changed. You know, Shador is much more
like a Peyton Manning or a Steph Curry, Like he's
a rich kid. I mean he grew up. He's Deon Sanders' son,
so he's he's been around the bright lights from day one,
right since the beginning. I think the questions people have
with Shadors. There was a famous line of Dion like
a I think the New York Giants wanted to interview
(18:18):
him at the combine and he asked him, like where
you draft and they said seventh. He's like, I'm not
wasting my time. But Dean could back it up because
he was one of the best prospects we've ever seen.
He became one of the great players we've ever seen.
These people look at you, you know, when they're interviewing Shador,
they don't look at him like he's Andrew Luck or
Caleb Williams, like he's not the best prospect they've ever seen.
So I think sometimes they look for a little humility
(18:40):
in that moment, and uh, I don't know. I think
Chador is going to be a fascinating case. I will
say this watching him as a player, like sometimes you
get the kind of that cockiness, you like, this guy's
kind of a fake fraud, not that tough like he
is tough, like you watch him play, Oh god getting
back up. So to me here there's an old school
nature to his game that he gets from his dad.
(19:01):
I think they would question his arms not great relative
to like elite prospects. Yeah, and even he admitted like
I got my mom's jeans as an athlete, not my dad.
So he's not an up rechelant athlete. And yeah, I
just think he's gonna be fascinating. Some people think he
could fall out of the top ten. Who knows. I mean,
there's not a quarterback. None of these guys are guaranteed.
Everyone thinks the Giants are gonna take one of these
(19:23):
court what if they just signed Sam Darnold, Like they're
not a get locked to sign any of these or
you know, draft any of these guys. So I think
cam Ward who has a much more I would say
gifted skill set, you know, just bigger arms, yeah, more
you just quicker athlete. You're also compared to the crew
you're in. Right, So when I'm interviewing people, guy come in,
(19:45):
Guy come out, Guy comes in, guy comes out, So
it's just kind of I'm living in the moment and
when you come off a little bit different, you know,
some guys are just rubbed the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are
all the new ways to get in on the action.
Raft King sports Book and official sports betting partner of
the NBA Slams, dishing the ball, cleaning the glass, get
behind your favorite players. Prop bets you can make on DraftKings.
It's fun the home of NBA player props. If you're
ready to place your first bet, make it really simple.
Pick how many points your favorite players going to score.
(20:16):
Go to Draft Kings sports Book. They have an app,
download it make your pick. If you're a first timer,
here's something special new DraftKings customers. All you have to
do is about five bucks. Get one hundred and fifty
in bonus bets instantly, So take it to the rack
with Draft Kings sports Book, Every point counts. Download their
app takes ninety seconds. Use the code column cli n
to get one hundred and fifty bones in bonus bets
(20:39):
betting just five only on DraftKings.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
The crown is yours.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler In New York
call eight seven seven eight ope and Y, or text
ope and Y four six seven three six nine In Connecticut.
Help is available for problem gambling called eight eight eight
seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG
dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino
when resorting in Kansas twenty one and over. Agent eligibility
varies by jurisdiction Voyd and Ontario. New customers only. Bonus
(21:05):
bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issue
wins four. Additional terms and responsible gaming resources see dkanng
dot co, slash Audio.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business brought to
you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the
Colin Cowhard Podcast. If you want to enjoy life simple pleasures,
reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single
barrel bourbon, you're getting over a century a craftsmanship packed
into every bottle. Hop on over to Greenriverwhisky dot com
and discover a legend in a bottle today. So there
(21:39):
was a moment this weekend. Jerry Jones canceled his interview
at the NFL Combine and the Cowboys have had a
rough couple of years. I mean, they gave away a
fourth round pick for Trey Lance. He couldn't beat out
Cooper Rush. I mean, if Kyle Shanahan Cammick a quarterback accurate,
he's not accurate. They give up a fourth round pick
for Jonathan Mingo, the wide receiver five catches for the Cowboys,
(22:00):
and again both those moves, you.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Know, we all kind of went.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Meanwhile, the Commanders gave up a fifth round pick for
Deebo Samuel. And it's really interesting as I look at Washington,
not just because of the result, but between Adam Peters,
Cliff dan Quinn, that move for Debo Jaden Daniels, and
(22:28):
I don't think, like a lot of times there's recency bias.
I honestly believe for the next decade, Washington is going
to be one of the three best NFC teams. And
I think what's happening with the Cowboys now, they're becoming
the old Al Davis Raiders. They feel like they are honestly,
they are lost at sea. I mean they are giving
(22:52):
away draft picks now. I mean people don't understand they
may re work Dax contract. It's a ninety million dollar
cap hit that is over double Josh Allen. They can
rework it all they want to. What fifty eight I
(23:13):
said this a year ago. I said they're going to
start a decade of regression. It has happened so fast
in this league. Shit goes south so fast. What did
you make of the Debo only giving up a fifth
round pick?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Well, to me, you just look at the free agent
class and you go, well, we don't want to get
in any long because the whole thing was Washington has
all this cap space, they need some more weapons for Jayden,
and you look around you go, well, NFL free agency
is the most overrated thing because high end guys never
make it, and the guys that do you have to
pay an absolute premium to get. Remember a couple of
years ago, Christian Kirk got like four years ninety million dollars.
(23:49):
He actually turned out to be okay. But you have
to pay, you know, elite money for those guys. So
I can get Debo on a year to year contract.
I have all this space. All I have to give
up is a fifth round pick. In the nil era,
fifth six to seventh round picks feel like diminished and
watered down. I also think you get a guy who's
a little motivated. People are calling him fat, you know,
(24:10):
a little like Lucas style. Adam Peters knows the guy well.
Cliff Kingsbury. You know, when you think back to Arizona,
they used a lot of gadget players. Rondell Moore, the
Purdue guy, different type player, but guys you can get
behind the line of scrimmage, you know. I actually think
it's a good scheme fit. He has excelled when they've
had a route running wide receiver on the opposite side.
(24:32):
Terry McLaurin, Brandon Nyuk to me, if you get a
motivated Debo, it's a no brainer. We have all this
cap space. I give him seventeen All I have to
give up is a fifth round pick, and if you're
the forty nine ers, you aren't gonna pay him seventeen
million dollars here in a couple of weeks. So it's
I think it's kind of a win win. The Niners
are moving off, they don't have to eat any of
the money. They trade to a team where the general
(24:52):
manager was around not only drafting him, but his good
and bad moments, so knows his personality because the other thing,
I mean, you've been saying it for ever. Whyer See,
it's gonna be a little moodie. They got a little
like Hollywood actor to him. They need to be you
just you have to know their personality. It's very rare
to get like a Larry Fitzgerald. Most guys are more debo.
(25:13):
And Adam Peters knows this player really well. And I
think the Jerry Jones thing. How often in any business
that if the eighty year old patriarch of the operation
is around and his name's not Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway,
is it a healthy place to be when the guy's hovering.
He's made an ungodly amount of money, he does not
(25:33):
need to be there, and he's extra hands on. So Jerry,
you could argue, Jerry's ego feels like it's only grown.
As they've quote unquote struggled over the last decade relative
to some of their big seasons, and they've underwhelmed in
the playoffs, it doesn't feel like Jerry's gone. You know what,
I'm gonna let Steven and Will McKay and my coach
(25:54):
take a bigger role. I'm just I'm just gonna be
more of a figurehead. He always doubles down cutting the check.
My name's on that bad boy. I'm involved. I'm a
football guy, and he's not wrong. I mean, he played
college football, he's been around his whole life. But unlike
a lot of football guys, Jerry is addicted to business. Yeah,
and the business of his team is marketing and all that.
(26:15):
And it's just there's just a lot going on with
the Cowboys, and you know, Micah Parsons. You talk about
Dak's capit. If they do give Mike a new deal
and don't trade them, what's that deal? One hundred and
fifty million dollars guaranteed for quarterback contract?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Rudal?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
No. I mean, so they're in three guys at a
combine what like five hundred million dollars?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Crazy?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I mean, I just you can't have three different players
top of the market when only one of them, Ce
d Lamb is top five at his position in the NFL.
It's like, I mean, it's I had a very good
year last year, predicting, very bad year, picking individual games,
(26:55):
very good year, you know, picking teams. I got Washington
and Denver and some of the upstarts this year. I
think New England is going to be a surprise playoff team.
I think the Jets are going to go sideways a
little bit. They don't have a quarterback. I think Miami
I kind of think they've topped out a little bit.
All the motion and the tricks and smoking mirrors. I
(27:17):
think there's limitations there. I think New England's going to
be in play And my other one is I think
Dallas is potentially a five or six win team with
Brian Schottenheimer. I mean, I have the good news is
it's a good quarterback draft. I have to go out
and get one if I was Dallas this year. In fact,
I think I heard Stephen Jones say this. I had
another person tell me who I respect, keep your eye
(27:41):
on Kyle McCord out of Syracuse in the late second round.
Do not be shocked if the Dallas Cowboys do go
after Kyle McCord of Syracuse. Now they're not late second.
I think Dallas made trade down in the second round
to get a mid second pick. I am hearing more
(28:01):
and more, and I went and watched him about a
month ago. Kyle McCord throws a really nice ball and
I thought about this if he had stayed, because Will
Howard completed sixty one percent of his throws at Kansas State.
He goes to Ohio State and complete seventy three percent
of his throws. If you don't think that matters. If
if Kyle McCord stays at Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith
(28:24):
and Ibuka and the two NFL running backs and Kyle McCord,
who's a much better pro prospect than Will Howard, it's
not even. It's not Will Howard is like late fifth sixth.
In fact, somebody today texts me in the NFL he
thinks after the combine he's a seventh round pick.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I had a bad combine. Oh bad.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I think.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I think Kyle McCord is going to end up being
as good as any quarterback in that draft.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
This is my hottest take is that he'll he'll be
the guy.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Tell me I'm wrong, Well, I think yeah. I watched
a couple of Syracuse games this season and went, this
is the guy that Ryan Day because let's face it,
they blamed him for the Michigan loss two years ago
and he got kicked out, and so I listen, I
believed him. I was like Hey, this guy, if he
can't make it there, maybe they're right. And then you
watch him at Syracuse, who had their best season in
(29:16):
a while. He was spinning. He's got a big arms
hight spiral. I think him and Jackson Dart because there
are so many question marks with the top two guys
with Cam and Chador. If you're talking about two guys
you have to draft in the top I don't know
one guy in the top five, the other guy in
the top twelve. You can get these two guys. Historically,
McCord is not going to be a first round pick,
(29:37):
but even Jackson Dart would also have been a second
round pick. You could find the Derek Carrs, the Jimmy Garoppolos,
these guys that can start for you, and if you
do a good job building your team, you can win
with I think the problem for the Cowboys is if
you look at the Dak Era, they really only had
to deal with the Eagles, right, he just kind of
went back and forth over the last ten years, right
with Doug Peterson and then Sirianni Era. Well, now it's
(29:57):
not just the Eagles, it's Washington too, So you add
another team because Washington up until last year was a joke.
The Giants have been terrible for what a decade plus,
So now the Cowboys don't just have to deal with
the Eagles, they have to deal with Washington. I mean,
that's that's a huge problem. And even if they do
draft mccor Jackson Dart whoever, let's say they draft a
second round pick that does nothing for them in twenty
(30:20):
twenty five and honestly does nothing for them the next
couple of years. That guys, they're kind of just hoping
to get their Jordan love, which is good big picture
team building, but it does not help them trying to
beat the Eagles or Washington in Week seven when you're
three and three and your season kind of feels like
it's teetering, right, Yeah, the you know, it.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Was interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I had this take that Sam Donald so overachieved for
the Vikings that Kevin O'Connell and their young gm feel
like they owe Sam Donald. They owe him a solid
and everybody likes Sam impossible not to like if you
meet him, and so they have said publicly, we're not
sure what we're gonna do. We we we may resign him,
(31:10):
and everybody knows Kevin O'Connell, the tall Sean McVay is
a really good coach. Now I'm just I'm theorizing this,
but Kevin O'Connell knows what he's gonna do at quarterback.
He's gonna use JJ McCarthy. But they're doing a solid.
This is sort of like what McVeigh did to Baker Mayfield.
He told everybody, God, Baker was great. I've never seen
a guy work this hard. He was unbelievable. You do
(31:33):
a guy a solid who comes in, you want to
help him, you want a good reputation that I think
the Vikings know what they're gonna do, but they feel
like Sam is a better.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Guy than Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
And if those are the two best quarterbacks on the market,
they're gonna they're gonna say nice things about Sam to
get him the better deal. Because a lot of these teams,
like Vegas, it's gonna come down potentially to Sam and Aaron.
So my theory is, you know, Aaron's made a few
enemies in his career, you know, and he's got his
reputation that the Vikings are just doing this to get
(32:06):
Sam the better deal on the market.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, man, I do think last year kind of spoke
for itself. He did play really well. Yes, I mean
you and I coming on week in week out. He
just was that an MVP performance. I mean that throw
and that play he made against Seattle. Near the end
of the season, he thought like could he actually win
the MVP, And then those last two games I would say,
you know, kind of clouded his fantastic season. The hard
(32:35):
part is there were so much on the line in
those two games. He was horrendous. I think the difference
of the two is one I would struggle with Aaron
for any amount of money over like ten twelve million
dollars because you're getting a guy that doesn't want to
get hit. Yeah, it's naturally kind of moody with an
offensive coordinator, just a unique cat Sam. His value kind
(32:58):
of is Baker Mayfield Like, it's not a super cheap deal.
So you're talking I would say eighty to one hundred,
but it is You're getting to bed with him for
a couple of seasons, even if it's the Daniel Jones contract,
that's a multiple year contract, so that there becomes pressure
on that. I think, you know, the Giants are kind
of in win now mode, right, you know, doesn't make
(33:18):
more sense. Let's just go with Aaron Rodgers and maybe
you know, veteran quarterback who knows what we do. If
we get with Sam Darnold, it doesn't work. All of
a sudden, we're in a weird spot. I think, Sam,
like all these quarterbacks, you're you're gonna be much better
with a good with Sean McVay, with Kevin O'Connell, with
Kyle Shanahan. You get with some of these coaches like
you're just not. Let me look at Ebra Fluce and
Caleb in that situation. Now we'll find out how good
(33:41):
Caleb actually is. But he had no chance last year.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Well, this is funny about the draft. I was talking
to somebody in the league about Jalen Milroe, and you know,
this person likes Jalen's story and his parents and the kid.
He thinks he's a much better Anthony Richardson. But he
(34:04):
did say to me, he said, but if he goes
to a defensive coach and it's a first time offensive coordinator,
he goes Jayleen Milroll is going to.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Look really bad. He said.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Now if he goes to you know, he goes to
a there's an offensive sensibility or he goes to a
you know, an offensive head coach where he doesn't have
to start. He said, the kid is physically he is
a better athlete than Anthony Richardson, Like he just will
run people over or run by them. And he said
he throws a gorgeous deep ball. Anthony Richardson doesn't throw
(34:36):
a gorgeous anything. But to your point, with Darnold and Gardner,
Minshew with Shane Steichen almost made the playoffs in Las Vegas,
it was a mess. And I think that's how I
feel about this year's quarterback class. I really do, John,
Where do they land now? I think cam Ward is
talented enough to overcome a little nonsense and you get
(34:59):
one of those guys in ye where they're just kind
of good enough to make it work to some degree.
But I think every other guy in this drafting, Jackson Dart,
Jalen Milroe, Kyle mclory, shud Or Sanders, they get poor coaching,
they get a battle line.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
It could be ugly fast.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
You know. Someone asked me, like, what's the difference between
Jalen Milroe and Anthony Richardson. I said, well, Anthony Richindson
had a lot of unknown Jalen's the problem with Jalen
is we've seen two years at Alabama as a starter.
If he only had nine games for Alabama, he would
be a lock first round pick. We can mold them,
we can figure it out. His sample size was too big,
(35:36):
the thing Anthony Richardson had going for him, small sample size,
and then the bigger it got Trey Lance one year starting.
If he had started three years, would people have been
off the scent? And that's where some of these guys
that have been three or four year starters. You got
Will Campbell. Everyone's picking him apart. The guy's been a
four year starter at LSU, had left at he might
end up being a guard, but I'll promise you he's
(35:58):
gonna start in the NFL for a decade. Right, he
might be a guard, but he's going to start in
the NFL for a decade. And I understand where he
pushes back. Everyone's bitching about my arms. Show me where
I'm getting beat because of my own But sometimes Logan
Mankins was a left tackle at President State. They moved
him a guard pro bowler. The thing with quarterbacks, the
accuracy thing does rattle people, and we have recent examples
(36:20):
Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson who were listen. Sometimes you swing
for the fences, Aaron judge five hundred feet. Sometimes you
strike out, and you know, Anthey Richinson, let's face it
looks like a whiff. YEA. Their GM comes out and says,
we got to bring in competition. If you're saying that
year three about the guy you drafted in the top five,
it's a problem. Ye trade. Lance was traded before whatever,
before year three started. So I think those two guys
(36:43):
serve as Jalen and where people talk themselves in on
Anthey Richardon and Chris Ballard wasn't alone. People really like
the kid. They that's you know Shador. These interviews people
said Anthony richards blew them away. We love them, And
I think Jalen Milro same type deal. Look at look
at the similar parallels of all the sabing quarterbacks. They
handle the room pretty well, right they walk in. You
(37:05):
go back to AJ mccaron, to the dude calling ESPN games, McElroy,
all the way through the group of the last five
six years. They all handle the room well. The problem
is that only goes so far. Can you complete the
eighteen yard out route right or you're gonna hit the
trainer on the sideline. And I think Jalen Milroe, like
(37:26):
Anthony Richinson, like I've learned this because I lean the
physical traits, the accuracy thing, it's just a non start.
The Josh Allen thing is a historic outlier, and I
think people kind of chase that. It's like, I don't
know if we're ever seeing that again in his story
right bouncing around begging people to sign it. It's just
he's just in his own little box. Yeah, you know so,
(37:49):
And I think everyone's kind of chasing that, like that's
not gonna happen again.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I want to talk about Jimmy Johnson. He retired on
my show today and he's got he made three Hall
of Fames, and I said it on the air as
Jimmy and I had great conversations about, you know, stuff
behind the scenes. Ninety percent of it didn't make the air,
and it was just good. Ninety percent of it was
just filler and information to me that I can then
(38:21):
pass on to the audience. But some stuff Jimmy told
me I would never pass on. And that's that's part
of what you and I do, Like we have sources,
we have friends, I protect them. Jimmy told me some
stories that are so outrageously funny that you could never repeat.
But you know, thinking about Jimmy Johnson, one of the
(38:41):
cool things about sports is it gets smarter over time.
And like, for instance, in basketball, now we shoot too
many threes, but for years, you know, somebody finally said,
you know, the math is way better. If you shoot
threes over twos, the math works out better. And you know,
it's like in baseball, you know what strikeouts, they're not
(39:04):
the end of the world. Ground balls are so just
you know, we have more efficiency, we have more numbers,
more math. You know, for years, the strikeout in baseball
was like, ah, the inning ender. No, the inning ender
is the ground ball. And you look at the NFL
as I don't think people some of our audience knows this,
but people did not make trades before Jimmy Johnson made
(39:27):
that herschel Walker deal. It was just so rare. Now
they make more trades by far than the NBA. And
do you take me back, because you obviously are younger
than me, I can remember the herschel Walker trade, and
again I may be dating myself. I can remember the
reaction people. I mean people celebrated the Minnesota Vikings like
(39:51):
they stole herschel Walker, And in the end, it is
the seminal moment that built the dynasty in Dallas. Tell
me your thoughts about that moment. Jimmy Johnson, what do
you remember him for?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Well, you know, growing up in northern California, the forty
nine Ers might as well have been the Yankee. I
was born in eighty four, so by the time I
was coming into my own as a sports fan ninety one,
ninety two, ninety three, I have vivid memories of watching
the NFC championship games that the forty nine Ers could
not win, and my father, like most forty nine Ers fans,
(40:28):
were not big Steve Young guys because Joe Montana might
as well have been Michael Jordan meets Jesus, and it
was not going well, and I just remember those teams
were so good. But in twenty twenty, the Super Bowl
was held in Miami and it was the forty nine
Ers in the Chiefs and Fox had it, and I
went to do a three and out podcast. You were there.
(40:50):
I was hung out in Miami for three or four days,
and I went to the Chiefs Hotel and I was
with some of the guys with the Chiefs and they said,
you'll never believe this. But yesterday Andy, because the Fox
guys came to practice, he had Jimmy talk to the team.
And most of these guys don't know Jimmy as a coach,
let alone like he was once upon a time, like
(41:11):
the best coach in the NFL and one of the
great like Pete Carroll right of the eighties and nineties
winning in college anna the pros and said, and these guys,
I mean, the guy telling me the story had been
in the NFL for twenty plus years, still on the
staff to this day, said he had never seen a
pre game. It wasn't in pregames, but you know it's
like Tuesday or Wednesday. Everyone the hair on the back
(41:33):
of their neck stood up. Like He's like, Jimmy doesn't
still got it. He could coach this team, lead us
out to the super Bowl, and he said, the place
went nuts. And it's just one of those personalities. And listen,
Jimmy's not the biggest guy. He always had. I mean,
I remember him as the head and shoulders guy when
when I was a kid on the commercials with his hair.
But he said, of all the people that coach read
(41:55):
and all the people that he's just seen come in
from the outside and give a speech, it wasn't even close.
That was the best thing that he's ever seen. And
I think some guys and this is like, I'm glad
that Sean McVeagh didn't go to Amazon. Like the NFL
benefited because Jimmy played a big role on Fox and
Fox getting the NFL changed the course of the NFL
(42:15):
business big picture, but they did lose I mean a
pretty special coach. I mean, it's cool to see Pete
Carroll come back, like these people belong and you talk,
you're around a guy like Jimmy, even those who were retired.
How often does he talk to Andy Reid, Bill Belichick?
Like those are his people? Yes, you know, he has
more in common with them than he does you know,
(42:36):
media people, even though he'll go down as one of
the great television personalities with a sport in the history
of the league. But yeah, I mean, I just remember
being this having described that that kind of speeds that
he gave to the team. Andy's no dummy, you know,
He's like, hey, Jimmy, you know, and he said it
was fantastic. But I remember Jimmy and those Cowboys beating
(42:57):
the forty nine I remember they beat him in a rainstorm,
I think the second straight NFC Championship game. And as
a kid, a lot of people thought that Steve Young.
I mean, can you imagine the story in twenty twenty five,
the version of getting rid of Joe Montana for Steve
Young and then constantly losing to this other team. So
it was a really big deal when I was a
kid of the Cowboys beating the forty nine ers.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
It was funny talking to Jimmy about the Miami days,
Miami Hurricanes and you know, the convicts against the Catholics,
and he was so proud about how many kids had
made like you know, the honor roll, and how he
was like, you know, people just thought we were a
bunch of dummies. He goes, He goes, we had a
lot of good students on that team. He goes, you know,
(43:41):
it was Miami. He goes, there were kids that like
to go out and chop it up, and he goes,
that was part of it. He goes, But he goes,
you don't he goes, cause I had to ask him
me one time, I may have been on the air
or off and I said, Like, if I said, what
is the one quality of a great team and asked
Jimmy this on more than one occasion, he always gave
(44:02):
the same answer. Intelligence. He goes, players have to be
willing to learn, learn quickly, and then develop. And he goes,
Guys that don't do their work, guys that just are
slow learners. He goes, it doesn't work. Great teams are
intelligent teams, and he goes because he goes, especially in
(44:23):
the NFL, the margins are so tight. This stuff all
comes down to situational football. Kansas City was not as
good as Philadelphia, but the last two years the Chiefs
have been so good situationally. That's just smart dudes who
have been around the Joe Tooneys and the Kelsey's and
the Mahomes. Those dudes have been around in big games.
So I mean, I think you brought you talked about
this the Kansas City Chiefs when they were miking them,
(44:44):
those players were like, you know, when they won that
Super Bowl post Tyreek Hiller like we just want we
barely even know the defense. Like the following year, it's like,
you know, so it's One of the things Jimmy Owa's
preached was you've got to have player. You cannot develop
players if they're not willing learners, if they're not willing
to put the time in with the playbook, with the schemes.
(45:07):
You need fast thinkers. And so he just wasn't about
getting players. I mean, he told me, those Miami teams,
he go, Colin, we struggled to get elite offensive linemen.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
You know, he goes.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
You know, places like New Jersey would have four or
five of those guys. He goes, we struggled to convince
them to come down to Miami. They're like, well, is
that a good school, And he's like, yes, he said. So,
you know, people forget that those Miami teams weren't stacked.
We weren't getting five star guys in the offensive line.
He goes, But our guys developed. And it's just I
(45:42):
got to tell you. If you're in your twenties, you
do not remember Jimmy Johnson's Miami Hurricanes, but they were.
You had to watch them when they played the big
games Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn State. They had
they were the run in Rebels with Tark with Stacy
Augman and Larry Johnson. They were like outlaws in their
own sense, and it was unbelievable television.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I'd even say the Cowboys team he built, you know,
I mean we argue this a lot with could these
players play now or play before? I mean that offensive
line that just road graded for Emmon Smith with Troy,
with Michael Irvin, that offense was just I mean with
North Turner, who was really like a Sean McVay Kyle
(46:27):
Shanahan thirty years ago as an offensive coordinator. I mean
Troy Aikman still squares by him, but building that team,
I mean that move he made to then accumulate. And
this is back in the day, Like we don't have
this really anymore because there's a clear line of like
coach and GM, they kind of work together. These gms
are also famous, Like he was the GM, right, he
was the coach the GM, And that's what pissed Jerry off,
(46:49):
which I would say is one of the more famous
front office breakups in at least in my lifetime, Jimmy
Johnson and the forty nine ers kicking out Jim Harbaugh. Essentially,
it felt like those two huge personalities that you just
don't win. Like you get rid of a coach, people
are they will side with the coach who's a championship
level guy every single time. But I just remember those
(47:10):
Cowboys teams being so And the other thing is I
think people like big personalities or party guys. I mean
those Cowboy teams had they were run like a cocaine
ring with strippers and stuff. But even Dion, you know,
a huge personality. I remember asking Bobby April, who was
a special teams coordinator with the Atlanta Falcons in the
late eighties early nineties, about Dion. He said, listen, Deane
shooting music videos. He's doing all this stuff. He was
(47:33):
always the guy sitting in the front of you know,
our meeting. He learned anything I'd give him, he would
pick up like that. And on the practice field, I've
never seen a guy work harder. So I think sometimes
these old school guys because like, oh Michael Jordan was
drinking all the time, we'll get on the practice court
with him. Oh Michael Irvin hasn't slept, Lawrence Taylor hasn't
(47:54):
slept well. Then practice starts like they are. There is
no rep off, there's no low management with these guys.
Different breed, you know, different time, different breed. But when
I think of those teams, I just think of like
you could put those teams right now in twenty twenty
five and they would wreck shop.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, and there are you know, it's funny Lawrence Taylor, A,
Michael Jordan, and Michael Irvin. I've always I've known guys,
not many, but I've known a handful of guys that
they're just wired different. They got different genetics, and they
can play thirty six holes of golf in South Carolina
and August and go out and party till midnight and
they're up at six and they can do it like
(48:33):
four straight days.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I do it once. I'm wrecked.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
I mean, some people need less sleep. You know, some
people do not need three or four you know, Kobe
Bryant was notorious, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Andy Reid, Like,
these guys aren't sleeping eight nine out. They don't need it.
I need eight hours to function more in mind to work.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
By the way, I was talking about this, We'll wrap
with this and again we have Marcus Thompson, who covers
the Warriors later this week. Michael Mulvahill, who does research
and analytics for Fox. Will be on later this week.
He's I bring him on once a year. He's got
great insight and every time I bring him on, people
just love Mike Moulhill.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
So he'll be on later this week.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
I'd say there's not a human alive beside in the
Curry family that knows Steph better and probably as a
closer relationship with Steph Curry than Marcos tops.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Yeah, he's mad, a great storyteller, such a good dude.
So as you know, I'm moving some of my operations
to Chicago, and you know what I've found really funny
And listen, I don't my wife was not a fan
of LA, but we both.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I like LA.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
I love California. I love Californians. I'm gonna move to Chicago.
Don't love the weather, but whatever. But you know about
the traffic, the taxes, the Yeah, I mean, listen, it's
it's a big city. It's I compare it to Rome.
It's just it's a lot, it's spread out, it's it
could take you two hours to drive across town. Yeah,
the taxes are expensive. I lived in Connecticut. Taxes weren't
(49:57):
cheap there. I like California I like people. There's a
lot I like about it. But we have a place
in the birds in Chicago. But it was funny. You know,
people will come up, but why are you moving here?
You know, I'll just say, yeah, you know, my wife's
got family here. I found myself this weekend defending California
and I said this to somebody. I said, listen, you
ever been on Google? Ever watched Netflix? You ever watch YouTube?
(50:22):
You ever used docu sign? And I started naming these companies.
I'm like, they're all California founded and based, and there's
a lot of smart people that built those and despite
the taxes and regulations, they still built. Like the six
of the ten biggest companies in America are California based.
And it's funny you live in California and there's so
much I love about it. I do think it's outrageously expensive,
(50:45):
and I do think there's a lot of waste, and
the politics can get very wacky and Sacramento. But I
thought of you when I defended him. After I thought,
I'm gonna ask middle Coff. You moved out of California
and you're happy getting married soon, You're very very happy.
How do you look at leaving California. Do you miss
(51:05):
it ever?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
No, I think it's the best move I've ever made
without hesitation in my adult life. I would say there
is a big difference between southern California and northern California. Yeah,
I mean you can get a lot more sun than
we got up there, and the prices are the same
and depend on where it could be. Palo Alto in
some of these areas Danville, I mean are most expensive
areas in like the world. Yeah, so you factor in
(51:30):
a lot of that. I do wonder big picture with California. Listen.
I got a brother who has a farming operation, like
he's gonna He's thirty five years old. He'll be there
the rest of his life. My mother lives there, my
friends and family live there. I go back there to
see these people. I do wonder Silicon Valley, which I
would say change the state financially, put it in a
different stratugy here those companies that you go back to,
(51:53):
you know, Apple and the companies in the eighties and
nineties that have taken off. And listen, I have a
lot of friends. When I graduated from cal it was
seven eight range. A lot of my friends went to
work in northern California for startup companies that turn or
early iterations of the facebooks right or you know Oracle
(52:13):
as it was really taken off in these companies and
they have financially the windfall that they've had at through
their thirties is you know, like being a backup point guard.
I mean, some of these it's been incredible. Are these
companies in twenty twenty five? You know the version of
Facebook or whoever going to start in Silicon Valley give
it how expensive it is to run your business there
(52:35):
and get people to come. And I just wonder, I mean,
you see what's happening in Florida, in Texas, in Vegas
and here in Arizona that it is so much more
lucrative if I was going to start a company the
version of what these have become. And that's the mindset
of all these people in Silicon Valley. It is so
much cheaper just to do it in Austin or in
(52:57):
Miami or And I just wonder, big pick sure the
Silicon Valley shift. I mean, you've seen it with Hollywood,
right that the movies, at least to my knowledge and
reading articles, are not shot there like they once were
right because it's so much cheaper. I have a buddy
that listens to this podcast that is the lead in
suits La. They shot that thing in Canada.
Speaker 3 (53:14):
Yeah right, No, No, I just.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Wonder, now there's historically there's always shifts back and forth. Yeah,
and you and I've spent time. You spent more time.
But I live in Philly for a couple of years.
I do feel like the wiring of those people. It
goes back and forth too. But they will draw a
hard line in the sand. Yeah, in California. I don't
know if you could ever get the complete pullback. I
don't know it's gonna be. It's gonna be a huge,
(53:40):
I don't want to say experiment, but it's gonna be
fascinating to watch over the next ten years. Can they
shift back because they're gonna have to to keep these coming?
They have the Apples, the Facebook's and oracles that they are.
They're there, But what about the new versions of these
companies over the next twenty thirty to fifty years. Will
they start and grow and come to fruition under their watch?
Or they have being in Vegas or in Dallas, Texas,
(54:02):
or in Glendale, Arizona, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yeah, no, I think it's it's a good point. We
we thought five years ago that all these companies like
Apple and Meta were far left, and to your point,
they drew a line in the sand, and those guys
were all sitting down with Elon Musk, you know, Inauguration Day,
like front and center making a statement. So I think
(54:28):
with big business there's always a line in the sand.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
People.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
I've said this before. You know, Bob Iger privately of
Disney is more conservative than he is publicly because he
runs an entertainment company and you kind of have to
lean left publicly, but privately you have to do business.
You know, you have you know, there's decisions you have
to make that you're not going to announce.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
But you know, it's just interesting.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
As I was, I was talking about California and and
and you know my life. My wife wasn't a big
fan of Los Angeles, my son wasn't. It's okay, I mean,
it's just a big city. But it is interesting when
when you say you're from California to people outside of California, man,
they have strong opinions. It's almost like the NBA, like
people don't even have to watch the NBA. They're going
(55:10):
to give their opinion of the NBA. And that's how
I feel when I'm in the Midwest. How California is.
People have been to it twice once It's Disneyland when
they were eight, and they got a big opinion on it.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Obviously, a lot of people in my life, I would say,
live in the greater San Francisco area, yeah, and have
for a long period of time and live good lives.
I do think they would be shocked to hear the
common theme the way humans talk about San Francisco. I
would say San Francisco is a more polarizing conversation in Chicago,
(55:41):
in Kansas City and than Los Angeles'. Yeah, yeah, right.
I would say San Francisco right now is probably viewed
by the average dude as the most toxic place in
America in terms of just polarizing of crazy listeness.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
I went to a Super Bowl in San Francisco. I
stayed at the Mark Hotel, which is like on top
of a hill. And again, I think people listen to me.
I'm kind of a moderate independent. I can lean left
on social stuff right on fiscal stuff. I didn't walk
around much at night, and this was is that eight
years ago? Like I remember being there seventeen. Yeah, I
(56:19):
remember being there and thinking this is not the same place,
at least not in this neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
And I went to the.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Same restaurant twice, the same piano bar twice. And no,
I'm I mean, listen, I'm I'm not somebody that just
I'm not somebody that listens to a lot of conservative
radio and I'm not here with the talking points. But
it's been really fascinating for me to you know, moving
some operation to Chicago and listening to people have an
opinion on California, and you know a lot of times
(56:46):
I just I just consume it. I'm fascinated, but it
is Boy, do people have an opinion.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Man. I think the other thing people would be shocked
about is the amount of money that your average employer,
as some of these places at Facebook and Oracle that
are my age right late thirties, early forties make I mean,
it's the money there. And this is why listen, a
lot of my friends don't love definitely the politics there,
(57:12):
and you know, they have young children in the school system.
Things can be really wacky, but it's really hard to
find eight hundred thousand dollars jobs. You know, when you're
a state school graduate, you know at these places that
you've been at for a long time, and you know
these the companies. You know, for my generation that graduated
into the financial crisis, the boom of Silicon Valley changed
(57:32):
a lot of people in my world's life. Now I'm
working in football making nothing as they are just taking
off like a rocket ship. And one thing I've heard
over the last I would say, six months, is they
are laying people off constantly. They go, what do you there?
They're doing the elim So what do you do? You know,
because you start, you lay off ten employees, you could
be you know, if they average compensation seven hundred and
(57:54):
fifty thousand dollars, they can add up pretty fast. Yeah.
And you know, as they got so big that you
weren't paying at ten over the last couple of years,
I think and listen, Elon takes a lot of shit.
When he bought Twitter, he basically did, what's everyone doing here?
This place isn't making any money? And secretly, I think
everyone else in Silicon Valley kind of was able to
fall suit, like six months later, much quieter.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
Yeah, I got a friend that works at Meta. Two
friends that work at Meta, and over the last three years,
Zuckerberg has gone into hyper efficiency mode, like he is.
Just every meeting that's what they discuss. So yeah, I
think people look at elon, but I think it's a
trend in that part of that sector and that part
(58:34):
of the country is we got big, broad, sloppy and
layers of bureaucracy. We're getting out of it. And so
it's anyway, it's just it's our last topic today. John
Middlikoff three announced the podcast as a former Californian who
kicked to the curb and is now golfing in December
and Scottsdale and loving life.
Speaker 2 (58:58):
Okay, take it easy, all.
Speaker 3 (58:59):
Right, buddy.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
The volume
Host
Colin Cowherd
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!