Colin starts with the flurry of breaking news from NFL free agency and starts with the news that star WR Davante Adams is joining the Rams and why it’s indicative of the Rams going all in to win a Super Bowl in the next two years with Matthew Stafford (3:00).
Then, he reacts to Sam Darnold potentially landing with either the Steelers or Seahawks and why he’d be better served landing with the Seahawks (5:45). Colin explains why he would choose Darnold in his prime over an aging Aaron Rodgers if he was the GM in Seattle. He also addresses the rumors that Rodgers and Russell Wilson could end up with the New York Giants, and explains why an aging quarterback WON’T be able to save that franchise (9:00).
Then, he’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down all things NBA!
They start with the Lakers falling on the road to the Celtics and why those teams could end up meeting in the NBA Finals (19:45). They discuss whether Luka Doncic could end up being a defensive liability and whether the move to LA could motivate and rejuvenate him after questions of his physical fitness were a major part of the Mavericks moving him (24:00).
They break down why Jayson Tatum will never be a true “face of the league” due to both his personality and his lack of one true A+ trait on the court (28:00). They debate whether Nikola Jokic or SGA is more deserving of the MVP award and Colin argues that SGA has been more valuable despite Jokic being more productive (34:00).
They marvel at the Warriors resurgence after the Jimmy Butler trade and try to identify who the toughest opponent would be for Golden State in the postseason (45:15). They discuss the recent spat between LeBron James and Stephen A. Smith and Colin argues that Bronny is fair game for criticism as a professional athlete (50:30), but also lauds LeBron for the way he’s handled himself in sports, life and business despite being raised without a father (1:02:00).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, we have a busy Sunday night podcast,
which for some of you will be Monday morning. But
you can always go to the Calling Coward Volume YouTube
page to get this stuff. We put it up there
as soon as it's done. So let's start with a
(00:23):
lot of NFL stuff. This is free agency week and
you're going to start seeing information pour in on free
agency stuff. So let's start with a big one. The
Rams have signed DeVante Adams, the former Packer and jet
with Aaron Rodgers. Rams signed him to a two year
deal for pretty hefty money. Well, they're moving off Cooper Cup,
(00:43):
so why go after DeVante Adams Because the Rams, much
like the Warriors, wanted to get somebody on Steph Curry's timeline,
Jimmy Butler, a veteran who can win now, and the
Lakers wanted to do it. You know, they didn't want
to give up Anthony Davis for a kid. They want
to win now. The Rams Sean McVay think they can
win a Super Bowl and DeVante Adams and Pooka Nikoua
(01:07):
will be the one and two wide receivers. Also interesting,
they signed two to two at well to a one
year deal for ten million y because he knows the system,
he can run, he can get downfield. They don't want
to break anybody in. They feel they got two years
with Matt Stafford that he can play at a super
Bowl winning level. So the Rams have been doing this.
I've talked about this at great length. They're spending their money.
(01:28):
Chiefs do this. They're spending their money on offense and
trying to keep their defense young, flexible, and less expensive.
That doesn't mean Jared Versus isn't going to get a
huge deal in a few years. For the Rams, you
keep your stars. I saw Nick Bolton just got signed
to the Chiefs linebacker. Excellent player, super rangey, great linebacker.
But you've got Matt Stafford, Kyen Williams, Pakua DeVante Adams,
(01:54):
Tyler Higgsby a very solid B B plus tight end
two to two at well in this sism knows the offense.
They may go draft. They also signed left tackle Jackson
to a contract, so they got Hevenstein Wright tackle Jackson,
left tackle. They're spending all their money on offense right now,
but it's a great defense. You could argue the defense
(02:14):
is more talented, but it's very young and doesn't cost
as much. So this is just you know, this is
the RAMS formula. You got a quarterback that can win
the Super Bowl for the next two years, we're going
to load them up with guys that know the system
or know how to play, and so that's why you
get the DeVante Adams Steele and I agree with it.
(02:34):
I agree with that belief, which is when you have
a Super Bowl winning quarterback, don't waste the years. You
don't know what happened. Stafford's been inged up his whole career,
so get him ready to go. This defense last year
which gave Jalen Hurts trouble in the snow or Hurts
pass for under seventy yards. This defense is good enough
to win a Super Bowl, but it wasn't offensively good
(02:55):
enough to win a Super Bowl. So they're going to
move off Cooper Cup. You'll have two number ones in
Pook DeVante Adams. They'll probably draft another wide receiver. But
you've got it all. Now you got both tackles, your quarterback,
star running back, better than average tight end, and now
two number ones on offense and a great head coach.
So the Rams deal makes sense. Another story Diana Russini
(03:17):
reporting that the Pittsburgh Steeters are going to make a
big run at Sam Donald, the most athletic in the
prime quarterback available on the market. She said she still
believes the Seahawks or the leader in the clubhouse. So
I think about this stuff all the time. And because
I've bounced around in my career, and what do I
consider when you're moving around and you have options. I
always consider the management just as much or more than
(03:40):
the money. And for Sam Donald, I'd be very wary
of Pittsburgh. I do not think the Pittsburgh Steelers currently
possess the ability to get the most out of a quarterback.
That doesn't mean Sam Donald couldn't be a Steeter and
be pretty good. But there's about six or seven, maybe
a few more, but six or seven teams in this
league that I think are you uniquely equipped to get
(04:01):
the most out of any quarterback, whether it's a star
or a B quarterback, Sam Darnold B plus the Rams
with McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan and San Francisco Andy Reid, Kansas City,
Sean Payton getting the most out of bow Nicks, Kevin
O'Connell in Minnesota. There's more, but I'd say there's seven
or eight organizations. Philadelphia has done a good job where
(04:22):
you know, the O line, the coaching, the coordinating. They
put a lot of resources around the organization to help
the quarterback. I do not consider the Pittsburgh Steels one
of those. We'll see how Ben Johnson works in Chicago,
but you know, historically, even recent last decade, Chicago's not
equipped to help a quarterback be his best. Again, it
(04:43):
doesn't mean Mitch Trubisky can't get into the playoffs, but
the Bears have shown time and time again they lack
of sensibility. They can be tone deaf. It's more of
a defense first organization. Pittsburgh Steelers have led the NFL
in defensive spending for I think three years guaranteed. Maybe
it's so that's just the organization, that's the coach. They
can't get the offensive line right. McVeigh has gotten the
(05:05):
offensive line right, Andy Reid, Sean Payton, those guys need
one off season to get it right. Steeter's been trying
to get it right, and they put draft capital in it,
They've spent money on it. They still can't get the
online right. So I think for Sam Donald, you have
to consider that I'm not saying Seattle is a great
offensive organization. Mike McDonald's a defensive coach, but the GM
(05:26):
John Snyder, I mean, he just doesn't miss on wide receivers.
You go back to his history. He gets wide receivers right,
he gets running backs right. I like Seattle's offensive personnel,
and I'm not absolutely sure Darnald would crush it there.
But I have more confidence in Seattle than I do Pittsburgh,
which is telling you I have very little in Pittsburgh.
Little confidence in Pittsburgh offensively to get the best out
(05:49):
of any quarterback. Again, I'm not saying if you would
have put Brady in Pittsburgh, he wouldn't have been successful.
But there's a reason that he and Bruce arians want
a suit. They're just coaches that are better at this stuff.
So that's where we are today. You're going to get
more and more information coming out, probably by the time
this airs. But I think that Donald story is interesting.
(06:12):
I would guess it's probably sixty five thirty five sixty
forty Seattle over Pittsburgh. They're both very good rosters, both
the Seahawks and the Steelers, and Donald will have in
both instances, especially Pittsburgh. You're not gonna have to outscore everybody.
But when you're in a division with Labar Jackson and
Joe Burrow, you know you need to have an organization
(06:36):
that really gets offense, and I don't think the Steelers
do now. Diana also reported that the Seahawks will come
in contact with Aaron Rodgers. So I thought Aaron played
really well at the end of the year. But if
you're giving me Donald or you're giving me Aaron Rodgers,
I would take Donald, even though I think Aaron has
obviously a much more impressive resume and at his best
(07:00):
can be better than Sam Donald. But Sam is at
this point in his prime. He's much more athletic. I
think he's more coachable. You don't get any baggage Aaron
at this point. And listen, I was told by a source.
I said this three weeks ago, or maybe a month ago,
And I trust my source that when Aaron Glenn, the
new Jet coach, moved off Aaron Rodgers. Remember Aaron flew
(07:22):
out to New York thinking he was going to be
a Jet and Aaron gled said, we're not interested. My
source said, the Jets told him we don't want that quarterback,
and we just don't want Aaron the guy. It doesn't
mean Aaron is Lucifer, but Aaron comes. He's a very
moody guy and a very moody player. And I was
told that by two people who played with him for
(07:42):
the Packers. And so if you've got a young coach
and Mike McDonald, do you want to saddle him with
Aaron Rodgers' personality. Aaron Glenn wanted no part of it
because Aaron Glenn from Detroit knows how valuable culture is.
So Seattle is building their culture and I think Aaron's
not a good fit for that. Now. When he went
to New York, Robert slafelt he had the culture built.
(08:03):
He needed a life preserver. It didn't work. But that's
not what Seattle's looking at. Seattle is saying to themselves, Hey,
we may draft a quarterback this year. We'll certainly draft
a quarterback next year. It's a much better college quarterback class.
But we got a roster here that can win, and
we think our staff we got two good backs. Noah
fant You know receivers. John Sneyder either drafts some or
(08:27):
acquires him. He's good at that position. The old line
is good enough, defense is young and talented. We think
Sam can keep us going in the direction that we
want to build. So I think Aaron's a long shot
to Seattle, but he's been so talented, and he did
play well in the last ten games. I think you
talk to him. I mean, if Darnold's camp wants forty
five million and Aaron's willing to play for less, okay,
(08:51):
then you go with Aaron. So Sam's to me talented,
but his contract should be closer to Baker Mayfield than
it should be to what Rock Purty will get. Even
though I think Darnold's talented Pertty, he's going to get
about forty eight million, probably close to it. I don't
think i'd spend it on Sam, especially giving him, you know,
I'd give him two maybe a team option. Third. I'm
(09:12):
not giving him for he just has one great year
and a lot of questions. Speaking of Aaron Rodgers, there's
stuff trickling out that Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson will
end up with the New York Giants. Say it out loud.
Old quarterbacks going to organizations to be a savior. It
doesn't work. It didn't work with Aaron with the Jets.
(09:34):
It didn't work with Russell to the Denver Broncos. You
can be an older quarterback and go to a really
good roster Stafford La Tom to Tampa. But this Aaron
Rodgers to the New York Giants. Wow, I'd consider retirement
that organization. You've got a coach and a GM that
could be gone before Thanksgiving. Offensive line has issues. They
(09:54):
have one weapon, the running games week. The division's excellent.
Now that Jayden Daniels appears to be Lamar Jackson of
the NFC. You know, it always ends the way it
should for quarterbacks, right, what you put into it, you
get out of it. And if Aaron Rodgers signs with
the New York Giants, this is how it should ended.
(10:15):
Superstar level quarterback talent, limping to the end, wobbly to
the end with the Jets and the Giants without much
of a market. And for the record, he was very
good in his last ten games. Don't kid yourself with
a really weak NFL coaching staff. Aaron Rodgers did a
good job with the Jets last ten games. Where's the market?
(10:39):
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Speaker 1 (12:16):
All right, busy, NBA, doct a lot to talk about.
Jason Tempf, host of Hoops tonight. All right, let's start
Lebron will be fine. He'll be back in a week
or two. I thought the bigger issue with the Lakers Celtics,
and I said this during the week on my show,
is Boston's better. You can't come in missing starters. So
(12:37):
no Jackson, no Rui. That's length. That is length you
can use to get you anything near the rim. Defend
the rim. So when I heard that, I thought, no Jackson, Hayes,
no Ruiy Hachimora. This could be a tough one, but
I also felt there's two things I want to talk about.
Number one is I thought the Lakers looked tired in
(12:58):
the second half. I thought they just gave you everything
they had in the first half, one of the best
first halfs of the NBA. Seedon. It was a great
first half. Lugan didn't played particularly well, but it was
a great first half. And I thought in the second
half the Lakers ran out of gas. And if it
was at home, maybe it's different. But I fly a
lot flying from LA to Boston. I don't care how
good the seats are and how comfortable you are. It
(13:19):
takes its toll and the pace the Celtics play at
I thought it wore the Lakers down. So that's my
first take, and you can address that before we get
into the Luca Tatum stuff. Just the fact that no
Jackson Hayes, no Ruie on the road. They played a
pretty frenetic schedule, I mean over the last couple of weeks,
and I thought they ran out of gas.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, it was one of those things where I think
there are some realities about this matchup that, regardless of
regular season circumstances, need to be factored in, Like We're
going to talk a lot about the top teams in
the league today, and I don't think Boston is like
separated from everybody in terms of like putting real distance.
But I do think they deserve to be favored, and
I think they've demonstrated that at several points this season
(14:00):
in several different games. That said, within the context of
that particular game, it was kind of interesting to me
to see the juxtaposition of that one with the first
time these two teams played. The first time these two
teams played, the Lakers play, Lakers played an excellent defensive
game and Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum couldn't get anything going.
And in the Lakers controlled this game. The Boston Celtics
(14:23):
put together a beautiful defensive game, and Lebron and Luca
can't get anything going.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And so.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
These two teams in particular, and by the way, I
think there's a decent chance we see these two teams
in the finals. If these two teams face in the finals,
it's going to turn into this like relentless matchup hunting
type of game, and it's all about Tatum and Brown
going at Austin and Luca. And then on the other
end of the floor, Lebron and Luca going against Derek
(14:53):
White and al Horford, and I think there were some
mistakes last night. JJ Reddick talked a little bit about
it after the game. Al Horford is a big body
that slides his feet well, and he has always done
well against bullyball players, even going back to Joel Embiid
and Giannis and Tenecumpo. Al Horford is some of the
best reps against those guys that you'll see in the
(15:13):
playoff context. Lebron and Luc are bullyball guys, and al
Horford was just having none of it, and he put
together just a beautiful defensive game. In that second half,
they were much more deliberate about attacking the Celtics guards,
and you got to see how they can have some success.
And that's really it. Like both of these teams, I
actually think, interestingly enough, these are the only two teams
(15:35):
in the NBA that can put together five man groupings
where you really can't leave anybody open. When Ruy is
healthy and Dorian finished with is healthy, and when the
Celtics have Chris Hops Worzingis and al Horford healthy, when
they're healthy and put together like even the Knicks, you
can help off of Josh Hart, like with the Thunder,
you're gonna give late contests to guys like Lou Dort
(15:57):
that you're not super worried about. Yeah, these are the
two teams, teams that can truly space the floor and
force you to play one on one. And if there
was one defensive reality from the Lakers in this game,
they've guarded really well when they can offer help from
behind in their kind of swarming, switching defense. Boston, they
really leave you on an island because if you help.
(16:19):
It's like Luca got caught a bunch of times in
the first half of that game helping in on drives,
easy kickouts, and he was giving up threes. You cannot
help with Boston. You cannot help with the Lakers. It
turns into a one on one contest, and the Celtics
just did a much better job of it in this
particular matchup.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You know, it's funny. I saw a piece of video,
so I had said on the Luca trade, I would
never have traded him, but if you gave me three
firsts Ad and Austin Rivers, I'd sleep on it. And
I said that because I've always said Luca is a
much better Carmelo. I never think he's in great shape.
I don't know. I think he sometimes takes the ball
(16:55):
out of teammate's hands. And you know, I don't think
I love Luca, but I saw when Luca first arrived
in Los Angeles. He looked puffy, hadn't played since December.
He's never been in great shape. But my take was
La gets you in better shape. The lifestyle is different
and Lebron and the pressure, you know, to kind of
(17:17):
impress Lebron. You can see Steph showing off with Jimmy Butler.
Lebron's kind of showing off with Luca. I mean, it's
just it's it's ego, it's fun. You finally got your match.
And the players I meant, Steph is more efficient. Lebron's
playing with an energy of a twenty seven year old.
So so, but somebody pointed this out to me yesterday
because I watched the entire game. They said, look at
the energy of Jason Tatum on both ends of the floor,
(17:41):
and Luca has bad stretches like right now, like he
has these four or five minutes or longer moments on
the floor and you're like, bro, you're just you're a
negative right now, like you're you're just getting beat off
the ball. And do you think this is something Luca
because you're nodding your head, you're seeing it too. Does
Luca play himself in the better shape or did Dallas
(18:04):
with their concerns about these consistent calf injuries about not
being in shape and lifestyle. Do you think we're getting
eighty percent in Los Angeles of Luca that some of
the videos on the internet that show him three years
ago through he was tomahawk in it and you're like,
not really quite what I see? Now? What is your
take on where Luca's at and where he'll end up
(18:26):
as a Laker.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
So that's a tough game for under any circumstances, to
go on the road in Boston. A Boston team that's
had some disappointing losses at home this year and was
kind of itching for they were itching for a signature win,
Like the Celtics really wanted that one. I mean, you
could tell the level of intensity they brought right from
the opening tip. It's a tough game under any circumstances.
(18:48):
Luca is not yet back into his peak shape. It's
gonna take a little while to get there. I actually
think it'll be somewhat there's a little bit of a
blessing in disguise with the Lebron injury, because Lebron has
been going full bore since like mid January, and it
was kind of inevitable that there'd be some sort of
nagging thing that would arise over the course of this stretch.
(19:10):
And I actually think it'll be pretty nice for Lebron
to get like a month off here, a couple weeks
off here, just to take a little break before the postseason.
That'll get more time for Luca to really lean into usage,
to really lean into having the ball in his hands
and build his rhythm back. That said, like, this goes
back to the Dallas series. The Dallas Series is a
different type of challenge the Dallas Boston series. In the finals,
(19:32):
it was a different type of challenge because Boston had
all sorts of dudes that they could help off of.
They were putting chrisops Porzingis onto PJ. Washington and Derek
Jones Junior and leaving him under the basket. The Lakers
will be able to create more space for him, But
he wasn't even getting past Jalen Brown for the most part.
Last night, like just one on one, Jalen Brown had
him in clamps and was bringing a ton of physicality,
(19:54):
and like, there's this kind of recurring theme I've seen
ogn Andobi did a little bit on Thursday night. I
don't know if you I caught the Knicks game, it
was kind of a little bit similar in that game.
All the way back to the second round series with
Oklahoma City last year, lou Dort gave Lucas some issues.
Lucas struggles with the really big and strong forwards that
can guard, and so there's a little mini challenge here.
(20:15):
If the Lakers are going to be able to defeat
a team like Boston in the finals, Luca's going to
have to overcome the Jalen Brown problem. But as far
as the big picture goes, he's twenty five years old.
He's playing alongside one of the greatest work ethic dudes
you're going to meet in the league, one of the
greatest take care of your body type of dudes that
you see in the league. I think Luca's going to
get to a level of better conditioning. That said, I
don't think he's going to be the dude who had
(20:36):
like seventeen dunks in his rookie year. I think those shit,
I think that shit might have sailed.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You know it's interesting with the Celtics because Tatum played
very well. And you know, I say this often on
the show, that there's a real gap in them in
what fans view as hate and what I view as contextualization.
So every time I talk about Jason Tatum, I always
say he's great. He's a great player. He's a top
eight player in the league. I don't believe he's top three.
I trust Sja offensively more, trust Jokich is all around better.
(21:05):
I trust Jannis defensively more. I think Luca at his
best is a better, more natural offensive player. Hell, if
you gave me one quarter to win it all game seven,
I take Lebron over Jason Tatum. I actually would. But
he's a great player. He's going to be a Hall
of Famer. He's a nice kid. But I've said this,
there are games where I'm like, where is he? Is
(21:27):
he on the floor? Now, this was not one of them.
He was terrific and I've watched him now play live
three or four times. I get to the arena early
he's the first guy on the floor. But it is interesting.
People get very upset about this, and I've said this
in the Olympics, when you're playing with the world's best players.
He was a coach's decision do not play against Serbia,
and he had two in the gold medal game, and
(21:48):
that Lebron and Steph flourished in those games. So there
are players that sometimes are around great players. Lebron was
like this very early in his first Olympics. He was like,
finally it opened up more of Lebron. And then there
are players that actually love playing within a system. I
think Jason is one of those players. I think his God,
(22:10):
his DNA is he's a teammate. You know, he likes
being part of a collective. He chose Duke so he
could play with other great players, right like like Shryzewsky
makes you play defense. He was there with the you know,
Grayson Allen, Luke Cannard, if I'm remembering right, Like, so,
my take is I think he's a star. I think
(22:33):
the NBA's only ever had three true faces of the League, Magic,
Michael Lebron. I think Bird was a reluctant because he
was conjoined with Magic. He was facing the league, but
Magic was the face of the league. He he loved it.
You know, French Lick, Indiana pimples on the face, grumpy
Larry Bird didn't feel face of the league. But you
know you join him at the hit with Magic, and
(22:55):
it's like Okay and Shaq and Kobe. I think you
could argue as a pair or face the league for
several years. Duncan never was a team, never was. Karl
Malone never was. So what do you make of kind
of my criticism of Tatum. It's not a criticism. It's
more like, listen, at any one time, the NBA has
two faces or one face of the league, two global stars,
(23:17):
and about fifteen other stars Carmelo Anthony, guys, is that
unrealistic to say? No?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I mean, I heard your rant about Jason Tatum, and frankly, like,
there is truth to the fact that Tatum lacks like
the traditional NBA aura right, Like, he's a good dunker,
but he's not Vince Carter. He's a good shooter, but
he's not Kevin Durant. He's big and strong, but he's
not Lebron. He's a good playmaker, but he's not Luka Doncic.
(23:47):
He's a good defender, but he's not what Kawhi Leonard
was in his prime, and he doesn't really have a
very big personality, So like it's really hard to like
put together you know, something specific about Jason Tatum to
like market really well as far as like face of
the league type of stuff that said, like he's really
good at all of those things. Still yees, he's become
(24:10):
like just by virtue of him being a jack of
all trades, he's become one of the most useful players
in the entire NBA. This has kind of been the
interesting trajectory of Jason Tatum's career if you go back
into early years in like eighteen nineteen twenty. In those years,
Tatum was like projected to be one of the best
shooting forwards in the league. He had some unbelievable jump
shooting seasons during that stretch. Then what happened was is
(24:34):
he started to bulk up and he got really big
and strong, and it greatly improved his defensive versatility. He
improved as a playmaker. But in that stretch twenty twenty one,
twenty twenty two, twenty three, twenty four, his jump shot
fell apart and became super unreliable to the point where
it was like sometimes it goes in, sometimes it doesn't.
Fifty in a playoff game, he'll have seventeen in a
(24:54):
playoff game, you know, Like it became one of those
things where he couldn't rely on the jump shot. Honestly,
I think think the Team USA situation right off of
the heels of last year's playoff run, as he shot
very poorly in the playoffs on jump shots and then
he shot what for sixteen with Team USA. I think
he got humiliated and spent the entire summer in the gym,
(25:15):
and he's added like a reliable jump shot to the
Swiss army knife that he already was, and now it's
one of those things where, like I agree with you,
I think Jokic is better. I think Giannis is better.
I think Shay's better. I think Luka Doncic is better.
I think if you asked like league average role players
alongside all those players, I think Tatum is behind those guys.
(25:35):
But I do think he's closer to that tier or
in that tier at the bottom as opposed to the
next set of guys. Like when you look at the
next set of guys like, I think Tatum brings more
on a night in, night out basis than Anthony Davis does.
I think Tatum brings more on a night in night
out basis than that next tier guys, Kevin Durant, Lebron,
James Stephka. I think he deserves credit for being like
(25:57):
a foundational, reliable, you can count on this dude type
of superstar. But I also think everything you said regarding
he does not have a flash point in his skill set.
There's nothing on that. There's not well think about that.
You can close your eyes.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I've said this and I can think of like five
Michael plays, six Lebron plays a bunch of magic bird.
You close your eyes with Tatum and you're like, it's
like Carl Malone. I don't have a Carl Malone play.
I don't have a Duncan play. There is something about
the persona, the or the imagery that his face of
the league. Okay, so I watch most of the Nuggets
thunder game. I missed the first quarter, but Shay went
(26:36):
off for forty. Of course, this week Jokich had a
you know, a thirty twenty twenty plus game, right, It's
I think it was the first time ever in league history,
and somebody to do that. So I love Jokic. I
thought he should have won three straight and Bead was
sort of gifted one. But I'll tell you why I
would give it to Sga. I'd give it to Shaye.
So I've said this on many occasions. Words matter, and
(27:00):
get in trouble for the wrong word, but you have
to watch the words. It's most valuable. Now. Production is
a huge component to value, right like valuable is I mean,
I always say this, Moms are usually the most valuable
person in a house. Dad may make more, the kids
may have a brighter future. Mom's the MVP, she's the glue,
(27:22):
and she's super productive, right Like, at least in my house,
mom was the most valuable player dad. My dad was
the local optometrist. He paid the bills. So Jokic, you
can argue, is more productive. Okay, but he's playing with
Gordon Porter, Jamal Murray and a coach that's got a
(27:44):
ring thanks to Jokich SGA, And this is about fifteen
percent of it. As a better defender. SGA plays with
a roster that is so young it only averages one
year older than the Auburn Tigers roster. So he is
playing with kids, and that matters. They're still figuring out
(28:04):
how to play basketball. Not to mention chet Homekin, you know,
has been out for a while. I mean, you can
argue outside of Shade, nobody else on that roster none
of their best offensive players have even hit their prime yet.
So and that's one of the reasons I worry about
them in the playoffs winning big road games with this
young roster. So based on the fact that his production
(28:25):
isn't Jokic, but it's damn good. He's a better defender,
he's carrying a younger roster and didn't have homegrun for
a spell, I would narrowly give Shaye the MVP. What
say you, So?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I actually think Shay has a decent sized lead it
really let's just get to the foundational piece of the case.
He's twelve games ahead of Denver and the standings twelve.
That's an enormous gap between those two teams, and so
when you start to make a case for Jokic, it
needs to be overwhelming. And there are some things with
(29:01):
Jokic that I think are realities. I think Jokic is
a better basketball player than Shake Gildas Alexander Same. I
think Denver would fall apart more than OKC would fall
apart if the two players were removed. But that's never
been the way that we've given MVP. It's never been
sheer value in a vacuum. It's never been who's the
guy that we think is the best player for a
(29:22):
sixteen win playoff front, right, That's never been the way
we've done it. It's always been a combination of a
bunch of factors, team success, your individual value, like your
reputation in the league. There's always been a narrative element
that's regardless of how we want to pretend like it
should be factored in, it does get factored in. There's narrative,
there's momentum, there's all of that kind of stuff. It's
kind of like the Jokic thirty twenty twenty game. It's like,
(29:44):
here we are two thirds of the way through the season,
Jokic puts together a stat line that's never happened in
NBA history. Hey, let's revisit this thing. Even though the
thunder have been consistently a better basketball team this year,
I think two things. One, Shay's having a much better
offensive season than pep are giving him credit for. You
mentioned the youth. The youth for the thunder manifests an inconsistency.
(30:07):
J Dubb is an incredible player. He is what twenty
two or he's young. He's super inconsistent. Chet incredible player.
He's young. He's gonna make mistakes. He's not a guy
that's super dependable night in night out. He's shot twenty
something percent from three in the series against Dallas last year.
Shae is the grown up in the room. Shae is
(30:27):
the night to night guy. So many of these games
break down for the thunder against good teams in particular,
So many of these games break down where it looks
like every single Thunder player is uncomfortable and a little
bit like a little bit like kind of shying away
from the moment and ches and Shae has to grab
the reins and like control things and like as Chet's
(30:48):
been out of the lineup a bunch this year. As
Jay Dubb has had a down shooting season and he's
coming on as of late, but he's had a down
shooting season. Shay's been carrying him through that. Shay has
been the guy that has lifted their elite defense to
the point where they can win games, and so I
think he deserves more credit than that. The second piece
of it is a reality with Denver. Denver has lost
(31:08):
a lot of games this year because they can't guard
oh at all, and Jokic, for the record, in the
twenty twenty three postseason, had a very good playoff run Defensively,
he is capable of having good moments on defense. However,
there is a simple reality with Jokic that causes a
lot of problems for Denver's defense. He cannot switch onto
(31:31):
perimeter players and he can't play on his heels back
at the rim because guys just jump right over him
and go around him. That forces Jokic to come out
to the level of ball screens and put two on
the ball. So Denver persistently exists in rotation. They persistently
exist in four on threes. That's how the Suns score
(31:53):
on them so easily. That's how the Lakers scored on
them so easily. That is the problem that they consistently
run into is Jokic has to come up to the level.
When he comes up to the level, it's a simple
pocket passer skip pass, and they're playing four on three
out of it, and they just haven't been very good
defensively this year on the back line rotating out of it,
and so they just haven't been as good. Their defense
is bad. Jokich is a significant part of that. I
(32:16):
think that gets factored into this debate. And so when
I really look at it in the big picture, there's
not enough for Jokisch, even though I think he's having
an unbelievable season, arguably the best offensive season ever. But
if you look at it, it's not enough to justify
that twelve game gap in the standings and then to
tie things up. Shades drop forty on them today as
they got to win.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I think we're on the same page. Well,
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(32:57):
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(33:17):
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in a bottle today. You know it's God. I would
have I thought. A month before it happened, I said, Warriors,
(33:59):
just get Jimmy Butler. I don't care what analytics say.
Steph is sleepwalking. And I remember saying, Butler's the anti Wiggins,
Like every possession is intentional, totally intense, everything's a street fight.
I always thought Wiggins was talented, a little passive. You know,
you didn't know possession of possession if he was engaged
(34:20):
I think we talked about this last time, so I
thought Butler would be a big help. It is amazing
there were eleven and two since Jimmy Butler arrived. What's
interesting now, if you start looking at their playoff position,
they could end up against Houston, which I think is
the dream scenario for Golden State because Houston can't shoot,
Like that's the team you want to play. A young
(34:41):
team that struggles shooting, you can beat Golden State. You know,
they don't have a ton of offensive firepower from the
perimeter outside of Steph Pods a little bit. But when
you watch the Warriors, it's really interesting. Oklahoma City again
is tremendous def team, but I don't trust them, okay
(35:03):
seeing a big road playoff game. They're too young. I
think Golden State has a lower ceiling, but an incredibly
high floor. And I think outside of maybe at Cleveland,
Boston could go seven games with almost anybody. Is there
a team let's just look ahead. Is there a team
the Warriors would not want to face in the West
(35:24):
and the playoffs that you just don't think is a
good matchup at all. Well, that's an interesting question because Dallas,
if healthy, would be tough with Gafford Lively ad they're
center rotations great, They're a big team, and I could
see that team slowing it down and being just a
(35:45):
handful for the Warriors. But I think they're going to
go into a soft tank here and just keep everybody out.
I don't think it's a terrible idea. So Minnesota, if
they had the twin Towers, you know, if they had
Cat and go Bear could be problematic. But I sort
of look at the West, I'm like, I don't know,
is there a team.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I think they're gonna get out of the plane. It's
been really fascinating just how immediately good they've been, and
it's been kind of like a kind of a proof
of concept for me about roster balance. Just like, no
matter what you're doing, if you ever ask somebody to
do too much, they're gonna be inefficient, they're gonna start
making mistakes. And there were so many role players for
that team that were being asked to do so much
more than they're doing now because there was no Jimmy,
(36:26):
and Jimmy's come in and just like crystallize everyone's roles
and everyone just has consistent minutes in the rotation. Now,
and everything's coming together for them, they're gonna get out
of the plane. In my opinion, if that's the case,
it's the team that I would want to face if
I was. Golden State is a team that they can
load up on defensively, and so I think a team
like Denver, if they got the six to three matchup
(36:47):
against a team like Denver, that'd be good. Memphis is
another team like that that is a poor spot up
team that they could load the paint up on. The
Other thing I like we talked about earlier with being
able to bring Yokic up to the level Steph is
that Steph is the guy that will consistently get Denver's
defense into rotation, and now they have Jimmy Butler to
be the guy that kind of helps pay off those sequences,
(37:08):
as he's been so good in the middle of the
floor this year. I think, yeah, I would lean towards
if I was. The problem with the Lakers is Lebron
and Luca will just hunt their small guards all day
long in space, and I think that that could be
a problem for them and the Laker defense, like we
talked about earlier, is keyed up on the ability to
help off of people, and there are a couple guys
for Golden State that they feel like they can help
(37:30):
off of. So I think Denver if they got into
that sixth spot, I'd be looking at if Denver slipped
to the three as a potential matchup that they could upset.
Houston and Memphis, to me, are both gettable. I look
at it as I don't know about how you feel, Colin,
but I think there's a five team inner circle. I
think it's Boston and Cleveland out east, and I think
it's ok See, Denver and the Lakers out west. I
(37:52):
think those five teams are the like if those five
teams are the teams that have substantial chances to win
the championship. Behind that, all of those teams I think
are pretty heavily flawed. Golden State has been really good
since the Jimmy Butler trade, but they've played a relatively
light schedule, so I'd like to see a little bit
more before I decide where they kind of fit into
all of this. Like the Lakers before they beat before
(38:15):
they lost to Boston, they beat fourteen straight five hundred
or better teams like that. That's how good the Lakers
were playing before that. Celtics game. I'm not going to
bail on them because they flew across the country after
a bunch of after a beatal schedule in last.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
And missing and missing two of the longest players.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, two vitally important starters. They're vertical spacer and Jackson Hait. Like,
how how often did you see Jared Vanderbilt catch the
ball under the basket yesterday with no idea what to
do because he can't finish over anybody. But like that,
that's the thing, Like I I kind of have a
feeling that the Lakers are one of the inner circle
teams because I've just seen them be so good for
so long against so many good teams. I want to
(38:53):
see a little bit more like from Golden State, because
I do think they can enter into that group. But
I just want to see a little bit more from them.
But I think between Denver and LA i'd want to
play Denver if I was then.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
You know, I was thinking about this topic. I didn't
do it on TV because I didn't know if it
was worthy. Stephen A. Smith Lebron James had that interaction right,
and you know, it's funny. I've always been a fan
of Lebron and I know stephen A. I text him
twice recently, a former teammate over at ESPN, and I'm
(39:27):
always sensitive. I'm glad my son and daughter did not
choose broadcasting. I wouldn't want him to be compared to
their dad. And if they got criticized, my take his well,
you got into this business. So you know. My first
reaction is, Bronnie James is a Laker because Clutch Sports
(39:48):
and Lebron James made sure everybody knew we want him
to be a Laker. He was not a dominant college player.
In fact, his size and skill set is really not
that of an NBA player, but not a point guard.
Not a lot of six to two off guards in
NBA history, and right now he's not shooting particularly well.
He's athletic, he's a good kid, smart. I think he
(40:10):
was draftable. It was one of the weaker drafts. I
defended the Lakers drafting him a great draft. Maybe not
in this draft, which was one of the weaker draft,
but every fourth or fifth NBA draft. You know, this
draft coming up is very domestic and very very interesting.
At the top, there's some really good players from great programs.
Last year was an international draft, and a lot of
(40:31):
projecting didn't have a problem being draft. You know, it
was a bit of a flex for Clutch Sports on
Lebron to get him in LA, kind of a power flex.
And again, you're making eight million bucks. You were wedged
into an organization that probably, you know, in most years,
wouldn't have drafted a player of your skill level. I
(40:54):
tend to defend journalists having the right to opinions, and
people say, well, you know, it's it's you know, here's
one of the things where I think Lebron James in
his mind is doing the right thing. Don't bad mouth
my son. But I've seen many broadcasters get their kids
(41:15):
into broadcasting and their kids aren't very good. Some are,
some are not. And that's the reality of a public
facing job. Mayor basketball player, sportscaster. You know you're not
you know you're not. You know, this is not a
job that's you know, you write annuities or you're in
waste management. Like everybody knows his name. So my take is, listen,
(41:37):
you you have an eight million dollar contract. You're fair game,
right that that's the way it goes. But you played basketball. No,
Lebron his kind of ideology, the way he thinks. What
was your sort of take on it?
Speaker 3 (41:50):
You know, it's interesting. I've been thinking so much about
this over the course of the last couple of weeks
because it's a dynamic that I relate to a certain extent.
I remember, like when I was playing at Arizona Christian
when I was in Naia. I remember like watching a
broadcast of a game and I was having a brutal
shooting season when I was in college. This was the
one this is the season that I had my worst
(42:10):
three point shooting season. It was I was in my head.
I was in this like small role where I was
doing taking all these catch and shoot threes out of
the corner, and I was just having a brutal offensive season,
and so I was struggling with it. And I heard
this announcer who was announcing one of the games like
talking junk about me in the broadcast, and I remember
getting like super upset about it because I'm like, I'm
taking three hundred shots a day. I'm doing everything I
(42:32):
can to fix this problem, and this like dude who
has no idea what I'm doing, is criticizing the way
that I'm playing, and like I think about that a
lot from NBA players, where I get it, like me
relative to an NBA player, even as someone who played
me relative to an NBA player, I don't. I don't
have the cachet or the or the reputation to be
able to criticize the greatest basketball players in the world.
(42:54):
And so on a certain level, I sympathize with the plight.
But then what you said is the is the most
important context there. We chose a career that exists in
the public view. I have a relatively small platform among
the big shots in the media world. I deal with
(43:15):
a shit ton of negativity every day. I can't even
imagine what you deal with. We won't even go there.
But there's just this outrageous amount of negativity. To your point, Colin, like,
I'm living the dream. I love my job. I love
the flexibility that I have. I love that I get
to talk about the game of basketball. This opportunity that
you have given me has changed my life infinitely for
the better. And so I would never sit there and
(43:37):
hyper focus on this specific part of my job that's
a negative because it's just so worth it. And that's
really what it comes down to, is like from the
NBA player's perspective, it's just the reality of the predicament
that they're in. They have this wonderful life that comes
from being a professional basketball player, but it comes with
this criticism. The second piece of it is, to me,
the criticism is authentic and necessary. And I was thankful
(44:01):
in Lebron's tweet thread that he included in there like hey,
when players fail, we need to discuss it. And I'm
so glad he said that, because here's the thing. Sports
are nasty. They're mean, they're violent, you talk shit, you
step on each other to get to the finish line.
It is inherently nasty, and there's a winner and a loser,
and in order for us to discuss the winner and
the loser, it inherently requires us to be critical from
(44:24):
time to time. It is part of the job. If
we came on every day and we just only said
nice things about players, we'd have no credibility. There's a
certain amount of this to where it makes it mean
more when we say a player succeeds if we also
criticize them when they fail. My thing with it is like,
just make sure you're doing your homework, Like if you're
(44:45):
going to criticize someone, make sure it's based in the homework,
you know what I mean, Because I got a certain
point if you're just talking shit to talk shit. Now
we're entering down a darker path. But I've found this
really fascinating because on one hand, I relate to players,
but on the other hand, like this is just the
reality of the situation that we're in.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
That Yeah, that's why I asked you. Yeah, because you know,
you played college basketball, and I've I've tried to never
make it personal. Although you know, like I said for
years about Carmelo Anthony, I'm like, man, if you're not
willing to play defense, James Harden I felt the same way,
you're not a great teammate because defense's effort. Offense is
a lot of skill, it's a lot of fun. Playing
(45:23):
defense sucks, it's hard. So what you're basically saying if
you won't defend, and I feel this about Luca, is yeah,
I'm kind of above that. Well, the utter ten guys aren't.
So I've always thought when players don't commit to the
defensive end, I think less of them. And you're kind of,
you know, you're kind of sending a message to the
teammates say you do that, I'll do the fun part.
(45:46):
And so that's one of the reasons I've always respected
Lebron Is in his defense in the last twenty games, Jesus,
it doesn't even make sense for a forty year old.
So and I've always been a huge Lebron fan, and
I actually supported the Lake drafting Bronnie. I supported Bronnie
playing in that game so that father son record could
be set. I'm for it. I was a little critical
(46:08):
when he had one good, really nice G League game
and they quickly moved him up, you know, to the Lakers,
and I'm like, guys, now you're asking me as a
broadcaster to lie to the audience and I'm not going
to do that. Is that he's not an NBA player,
he may work himself into a you know, eighth ninth
guy in a roster, and I'm rooting for that because
(46:30):
I really do think Savannah and Lebron have done a
wonderful job considering this generational wealth. They're good people. They're
grounded as much as you can be. If you're Ronaldo
Messi Lebron Brady, right like, you just kind of bake
in some of this shit. Ain't normal, right, So it's
just interesting. You know, I think the audience wants me
to have definitive takes and take a side. But I
(46:52):
think Steven A. Smith does have a right to be
honest about Bronnie. But I also get the dad part.
But I do come back to listen the minute you
made that decision to wedge Brownie on to the Lakers.
The most sacred part of sports is the uniform. You
(47:17):
gave somebody a uniform, and many question whether he is
uniform worthy. At the NBA level, Like you can say
what you want that owners do and gms do, but
that uniform, in any sport, that is what makes grown
men cry. They work twenty years to wear an NBA uniform. Hell,
(47:39):
it can be a ten day contract, man, If you
get ten days in the NBA, for the rest of
your life. I was an NBA player, And so when
you get somebody to put that jersey on for the
Los Angeles Lakers, there's gonna be some animosity. They got
people going to say, wait a minute, time out, Now,
come on now, And so it's it's one of those
(48:00):
I know, I'm supposed to take a side on this,
and I've said this to people privately, I don't talk
about this that, you know, the Ukraine, Putin Zelenski, Russia,
United States, it's way more complic I've watched more video
on that story in the last six months than everything
(48:20):
except sports. It's there's a lot of complexity with NATO
and the history of Russia and US, and sometimes, if
I'm ever critical of the media, social media has made
simplicity the go to apparatus, and I think Brownie stephen
(48:40):
A Lebron, I think it's complicated. I think there's the
dad thing, there's the history thing, there's the journalist thing.
And I hated to see it because I love Lebron
and I really like steven A. Smith. I like them both.
They're really good at what they do. And I know
that's a considered a soft pedal, but that's how I
(49:02):
feel about it.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
You know, It's so fascinating because you're asking people to
just bring a little bit of nuance into the discussion
with the Lebron stephen A Smith thing, and there's just
none that. It's there's none of that. There's like this
huge anti Lebron He's ruining Bronni's life kind of angle,
and then there's the steven A Smith step to Lebron
and now he's getting Now Lebron's getting in his face
and he's paying the price for his actions. And I'm
(49:24):
sitting there and I'm like, I'm reading, I'm doing the
lip reading when I'm watching Lebron, and he's saying like, like,
keep my son out of this. And to your point,
on a very basic level, Bronni is an NBA player
with a large profile. He's going to get discussed. Like
there's no universe where he's not going to be criticized
like that, like and.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Played at USC and Sierra Canyon. He was a high
profile high school player exactly.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
And like and so like to me, it's like, on
a very basic level, we have to acknowledge stephen A's
right to discuss Bronni. Like that's just that's that's that's
very to me. That's a very simple part of it.
But then there's another reality, which is, like, Okay, Lebron
probably feels like stephen A's used him a little bit
like a punching bag over the course of the last
year or two, and I think Lebron's sick of it
(50:09):
and he's lashing out. So on one hand, I'm like, Okay,
I also support Lebron's right to confront stephen A and
be like, hey, dude, what the heck, But like the
specific point he decided to argue regarding his son, it's
hypocritical because to your point, as soon as you elevate
Bronny to this level, how could you possibly hope to
protect him from that type of criticism. It's part of
the deal. You've dealt. Dealt with it, Lebron. You, Lebron,
(50:31):
you are the most polarizing player in NBA history. Like this,
you know this?
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Let me add something else that I think again is nuanced.
One of the reasons I've always been so impressed with
Lebron James. He didn't grow up with a father. Okay,
It's pretty understood that both parents can, over the course
(50:58):
of time, be very better official to any child who
then becomes an adult. Lebron James has stayed out of trouble,
and he did not have that guiding strong hand of
a father, and yet you would never know it. He's
been a terrific father, a terrific husband, a wonderful businessman.
He is such a good friend. I know two of
(51:21):
Lebron's friends Lebron's a great friend, and could I argue
that Lebron takes so much pride in being a father
because he did not have that at home, that he
is going to err on the side of overprotective. And
I'm going to defend the hell out of Lebron for
(51:42):
that right. I'm sorry now again. I maybe I'm wrong,
Maybe I'm too sympathetic. And my dad wasn't always around,
but he was around enough that I had a dad,
and he was a local town optometrist, and I was
very proud, and he gave me multiple moments of wisdom
(52:03):
and advice and a spanking or two when I when
I turned the sprinkler on as he was trying to
move it and Flack Flack black hit my dad as
he had his white doctor jacket on heading to work
and was soaked and had to go back inside. I
got spanked that day. I was laughing hysterically for a while.
So I have these moments in my life where my
(52:24):
father had a great impact. I mean, I was talking
to a friend the other day about a moment that
my dad said something. He was like, I was twelve
years old. It has been with me my entire life,
and so maybe I'm just being too overly sympathetic. But
Lebron didn't have a father at home, and if he's
airing on the side of, hey, man, I protect my family,
(52:46):
this is it for me. Man, I'm this is a
bubble that I am gonna if I if I'm airing
on the side of overprotective. I got Lebron's back on that.
And that's the kind of stuff I think of as
somebody that's divorced. Six kids are in my life. How
do I be a step parent? I think about all
that stuff. Maybe I'm too old and protective, but I
(53:08):
just I think it's more complex than steven A is
a bad guy and Lebron's a good guy and it's
just that's not the way life is, right.
Speaker 3 (53:18):
No, I agree, And to your point, like there's the
the motivating factor is something that all parents can relate to.
It kind of goes back to what we were talking
about just in overall player criticism. Just because the player
is being unrealistic about the realities of his profession and
the fact that criticism comes with that profession, it doesn't
make it like I also relate to that player when
(53:40):
he pushes back and when the player goes like to
like today, Kevin Durant tweeted at Skip Bayless like, I
also understand the reason why he might want to clap back,
even though Kevin Durant should be realistic about the fact
that he's one of the greatest players of all time.
Therefore media Yeah, so basically, Skip Bayles said that Kevin
(54:03):
Durant looks like he's already mentally retired, and kat tweeted
him and said, I guess that means both of us
are washed.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
By the way I watched that game Katie had twenty
one n.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Katie's been awesome this year. Like the Sun's issues are
like entirely organizational Katie's. I think if someone gets Katie
this summer, he's gonna walk right in and help a
team win a title, or at least get him close.
Like he's so good, He's so good.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Oh, he's so good. I would love to sit down
and break bread with Kevin Durant. I really love the guy.
I think he's such a fun player. I like everything
about him. I hated him leaving Golden State, but he's
such a unique all time player. I love Kevin Durant.
I love watching him play I like his quirky personality.
(54:51):
Jason Temp, host of Hoops Tonight. This was fantastic. I
had some NFL news before you, but this was really good.
Let me throw this out there, folks. The Steeler are
going to sign DK Metcalf to a five year, one
hundred and fifty million dollar contract. I'm just telling you
I wouldn't do it, and I like DK Metcalf. That
is way too much money for a wide receiver, especially
(55:13):
for an organization that can't figure out offense. As always, Jason,
your money, Thanks buddy.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
It was good to see you, Colin. Looking forward to
next time.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
The volume
The volume. All right, we have a busy Sunday night podcast,
which for some of you will be Monday morning. But
you can always go to the Calling Coward Volume YouTube
page to get this stuff. We put it up there
as soon as it's done. So let's start with a
(00:23):
lot of NFL stuff. This is free agency week and
you're going to start seeing information pour in on free
agency stuff. So let's start with a big one. The
Rams have signed DeVante Adams, the former Packer and jet
with Aaron Rodgers. Rams signed him to a two year
deal for pretty hefty money. Well, they're moving off Cooper Cup,
(00:43):
so why go after DeVante Adams Because the Rams, much
like the Warriors, wanted to get somebody on Steph Curry's timeline,
Jimmy Butler, a veteran who can win now, and the
Lakers wanted to do it. You know, they didn't want
to give up Anthony Davis for a kid. They want
to win now. The Rams Sean McVay think they can
win a Super Bowl and DeVante Adams and Pooka Nikoua
(01:07):
will be the one and two wide receivers. Also interesting,
they signed two to two at well to a one
year deal for ten million y because he knows the system,
he can run, he can get downfield. They don't want
to break anybody in. They feel they got two years
with Matt Stafford that he can play at a super
Bowl winning level. So the Rams have been doing this.
I've talked about this at great length. They're spending their money.
(01:28):
Chiefs do this. They're spending their money on offense and
trying to keep their defense young, flexible, and less expensive.
That doesn't mean Jared Versus isn't going to get a
huge deal in a few years. For the Rams, you
keep your stars. I saw Nick Bolton just got signed
to the Chiefs linebacker. Excellent player, super rangey, great linebacker.
But you've got Matt Stafford, Kyen Williams, Pakua DeVante Adams,
(01:54):
Tyler Higgsby a very solid B B plus tight end
two to two at well in this sism knows the offense.
They may go draft. They also signed left tackle Jackson
to a contract, so they got Hevenstein Wright tackle Jackson,
left tackle. They're spending all their money on offense right now,
but it's a great defense. You could argue the defense
(02:14):
is more talented, but it's very young and doesn't cost
as much. So this is just you know, this is
the RAMS formula. You got a quarterback that can win
the Super Bowl for the next two years, we're going
to load them up with guys that know the system
or know how to play, and so that's why you
get the DeVante Adams Steele and I agree with it.
(02:34):
I agree with that belief, which is when you have
a Super Bowl winning quarterback, don't waste the years. You
don't know what happened. Stafford's been inged up his whole career,
so get him ready to go. This defense last year
which gave Jalen Hurts trouble in the snow or Hurts
pass for under seventy yards. This defense is good enough
to win a Super Bowl, but it wasn't offensively good
(02:55):
enough to win a Super Bowl. So they're going to
move off Cooper Cup. You'll have two number ones in
Pook DeVante Adams. They'll probably draft another wide receiver. But
you've got it all. Now you got both tackles, your quarterback,
star running back, better than average tight end, and now
two number ones on offense and a great head coach.
So the Rams deal makes sense. Another story Diana Russini
(03:17):
reporting that the Pittsburgh Steeters are going to make a
big run at Sam Donald, the most athletic in the
prime quarterback available on the market. She said she still
believes the Seahawks or the leader in the clubhouse. So
I think about this stuff all the time. And because
I've bounced around in my career, and what do I
consider when you're moving around and you have options. I
always consider the management just as much or more than
(03:40):
the money. And for Sam Donald, I'd be very wary
of Pittsburgh. I do not think the Pittsburgh Steelers currently
possess the ability to get the most out of a quarterback.
That doesn't mean Sam Donald couldn't be a Steeter and
be pretty good. But there's about six or seven, maybe
a few more, but six or seven teams in this
league that I think are you uniquely equipped to get
(04:01):
the most out of any quarterback, whether it's a star
or a B quarterback, Sam Darnold B plus the Rams
with McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan and San Francisco Andy Reid, Kansas City,
Sean Payton getting the most out of bow Nicks, Kevin
O'Connell in Minnesota. There's more, but I'd say there's seven
or eight organizations. Philadelphia has done a good job where
(04:22):
you know, the O line, the coaching, the coordinating. They
put a lot of resources around the organization to help
the quarterback. I do not consider the Pittsburgh Steels one
of those. We'll see how Ben Johnson works in Chicago,
but you know, historically, even recent last decade, Chicago's not
equipped to help a quarterback be his best. Again, it
(04:43):
doesn't mean Mitch Trubisky can't get into the playoffs, but
the Bears have shown time and time again they lack
of sensibility. They can be tone deaf. It's more of
a defense first organization. Pittsburgh Steelers have led the NFL
in defensive spending for I think three years guaranteed. Maybe
it's so that's just the organization, that's the coach. They
can't get the offensive line right. McVeigh has gotten the
(05:05):
offensive line right, Andy Reid, Sean Payton, those guys need
one off season to get it right. Steeter's been trying
to get it right, and they put draft capital in it,
They've spent money on it. They still can't get the
online right. So I think for Sam Donald, you have
to consider that I'm not saying Seattle is a great
offensive organization. Mike McDonald's a defensive coach, but the GM
(05:26):
John Snyder, I mean, he just doesn't miss on wide receivers.
You go back to his history. He gets wide receivers right,
he gets running backs right. I like Seattle's offensive personnel,
and I'm not absolutely sure Darnald would crush it there.
But I have more confidence in Seattle than I do Pittsburgh,
which is telling you I have very little in Pittsburgh.
Little confidence in Pittsburgh offensively to get the best out
(05:49):
of any quarterback. Again, I'm not saying if you would
have put Brady in Pittsburgh, he wouldn't have been successful.
But there's a reason that he and Bruce arians want
a suit. They're just coaches that are better at this stuff.
So that's where we are today. You're going to get
more and more information coming out, probably by the time
this airs. But I think that Donald story is interesting.
(06:12):
I would guess it's probably sixty five thirty five sixty
forty Seattle over Pittsburgh. They're both very good rosters, both
the Seahawks and the Steelers, and Donald will have in
both instances, especially Pittsburgh. You're not gonna have to outscore everybody.
But when you're in a division with Labar Jackson and
Joe Burrow, you know you need to have an organization
(06:36):
that really gets offense, and I don't think the Steelers
do now. Diana also reported that the Seahawks will come
in contact with Aaron Rodgers. So I thought Aaron played
really well at the end of the year. But if
you're giving me Donald or you're giving me Aaron Rodgers,
I would take Donald, even though I think Aaron has
obviously a much more impressive resume and at his best
(07:00):
can be better than Sam Donald. But Sam is at
this point in his prime. He's much more athletic. I
think he's more coachable. You don't get any baggage Aaron
at this point. And listen, I was told by a source.
I said this three weeks ago, or maybe a month ago,
And I trust my source that when Aaron Glenn, the
new Jet coach, moved off Aaron Rodgers. Remember Aaron flew
(07:22):
out to New York thinking he was going to be
a Jet and Aaron gled said, we're not interested. My
source said, the Jets told him we don't want that quarterback,
and we just don't want Aaron the guy. It doesn't
mean Aaron is Lucifer, but Aaron comes. He's a very
moody guy and a very moody player. And I was
told that by two people who played with him for
(07:42):
the Packers. And so if you've got a young coach
and Mike McDonald, do you want to saddle him with
Aaron Rodgers' personality. Aaron Glenn wanted no part of it
because Aaron Glenn from Detroit knows how valuable culture is.
So Seattle is building their culture and I think Aaron's
not a good fit for that. Now. When he went
to New York, Robert slafelt he had the culture built.
(08:03):
He needed a life preserver. It didn't work. But that's
not what Seattle's looking at. Seattle is saying to themselves, Hey,
we may draft a quarterback this year. We'll certainly draft
a quarterback next year. It's a much better college quarterback class.
But we got a roster here that can win, and
we think our staff we got two good backs. Noah
fant You know receivers. John Sneyder either drafts some or
(08:27):
acquires him. He's good at that position. The old line
is good enough, defense is young and talented. We think
Sam can keep us going in the direction that we
want to build. So I think Aaron's a long shot
to Seattle, but he's been so talented, and he did
play well in the last ten games. I think you
talk to him. I mean, if Darnold's camp wants forty
five million and Aaron's willing to play for less, okay,
(08:51):
then you go with Aaron. So Sam's to me talented,
but his contract should be closer to Baker Mayfield than
it should be to what Rock Purty will get. Even
though I think Darnold's talented Pertty, he's going to get
about forty eight million, probably close to it. I don't
think i'd spend it on Sam, especially giving him, you know,
I'd give him two maybe a team option. Third. I'm
(09:12):
not giving him for he just has one great year
and a lot of questions. Speaking of Aaron Rodgers, there's
stuff trickling out that Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson will
end up with the New York Giants. Say it out loud.
Old quarterbacks going to organizations to be a savior. It
doesn't work. It didn't work with Aaron with the Jets.
(09:34):
It didn't work with Russell to the Denver Broncos. You
can be an older quarterback and go to a really
good roster Stafford La Tom to Tampa. But this Aaron
Rodgers to the New York Giants. Wow, I'd consider retirement
that organization. You've got a coach and a GM that
could be gone before Thanksgiving. Offensive line has issues. They
(09:54):
have one weapon, the running games week. The division's excellent.
Now that Jayden Daniels appears to be Lamar Jackson of
the NFC. You know, it always ends the way it
should for quarterbacks, right, what you put into it, you
get out of it. And if Aaron Rodgers signs with
the New York Giants, this is how it should ended.
(10:15):
Superstar level quarterback talent, limping to the end, wobbly to
the end with the Jets and the Giants without much
of a market. And for the record, he was very
good in his last ten games. Don't kid yourself with
a really weak NFL coaching staff. Aaron Rodgers did a
good job with the Jets last ten games. Where's the market?
(10:39):
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Speaker 1 (12:16):
All right, busy, NBA, doct a lot to talk about.
Jason Tempf, host of Hoops tonight. All right, let's start
Lebron will be fine. He'll be back in a week
or two. I thought the bigger issue with the Lakers Celtics,
and I said this during the week on my show,
is Boston's better. You can't come in missing starters. So
(12:37):
no Jackson, no Rui. That's length. That is length you
can use to get you anything near the rim. Defend
the rim. So when I heard that, I thought, no Jackson, Hayes,
no Ruiy Hachimora. This could be a tough one, but
I also felt there's two things I want to talk about.
Number one is I thought the Lakers looked tired in
(12:58):
the second half. I thought they just gave you everything
they had in the first half, one of the best
first halfs of the NBA. Seedon. It was a great
first half. Lugan didn't played particularly well, but it was
a great first half. And I thought in the second
half the Lakers ran out of gas. And if it
was at home, maybe it's different. But I fly a
lot flying from LA to Boston. I don't care how
good the seats are and how comfortable you are. It
(13:19):
takes its toll and the pace the Celtics play at
I thought it wore the Lakers down. So that's my
first take, and you can address that before we get
into the Luca Tatum stuff. Just the fact that no
Jackson Hayes, no Ruie on the road. They played a
pretty frenetic schedule, I mean over the last couple of weeks,
and I thought they ran out of gas.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, it was one of those things where I think
there are some realities about this matchup that, regardless of
regular season circumstances, need to be factored in, Like We're
going to talk a lot about the top teams in
the league today, and I don't think Boston is like
separated from everybody in terms of like putting real distance.
But I do think they deserve to be favored, and
I think they've demonstrated that at several points this season
(14:00):
in several different games. That said, within the context of
that particular game, it was kind of interesting to me
to see the juxtaposition of that one with the first
time these two teams played. The first time these two
teams played, the Lakers play, Lakers played an excellent defensive
game and Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum couldn't get anything going.
And in the Lakers controlled this game. The Boston Celtics
(14:23):
put together a beautiful defensive game, and Lebron and Luca
can't get anything going.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And so.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
These two teams in particular, and by the way, I
think there's a decent chance we see these two teams
in the finals. If these two teams face in the finals,
it's going to turn into this like relentless matchup hunting
type of game, and it's all about Tatum and Brown
going at Austin and Luca. And then on the other
end of the floor, Lebron and Luca going against Derek
(14:53):
White and al Horford, and I think there were some
mistakes last night. JJ Reddick talked a little bit about
it after the game. Al Horford is a big body
that slides his feet well, and he has always done
well against bullyball players, even going back to Joel Embiid
and Giannis and Tenecumpo. Al Horford is some of the
best reps against those guys that you'll see in the
(15:13):
playoff context. Lebron and Luc are bullyball guys, and al
Horford was just having none of it, and he put
together just a beautiful defensive game. In that second half,
they were much more deliberate about attacking the Celtics guards,
and you got to see how they can have some success.
And that's really it. Like both of these teams, I
actually think, interestingly enough, these are the only two teams
(15:35):
in the NBA that can put together five man groupings
where you really can't leave anybody open. When Ruy is
healthy and Dorian finished with is healthy, and when the
Celtics have Chris Hops Worzingis and al Horford healthy, when
they're healthy and put together like even the Knicks, you
can help off of Josh Hart, like with the Thunder,
you're gonna give late contests to guys like Lou Dort
(15:57):
that you're not super worried about. Yeah, these are the
two teams, teams that can truly space the floor and
force you to play one on one. And if there
was one defensive reality from the Lakers in this game,
they've guarded really well when they can offer help from
behind in their kind of swarming, switching defense. Boston, they
really leave you on an island because if you help.
(16:19):
It's like Luca got caught a bunch of times in
the first half of that game helping in on drives,
easy kickouts, and he was giving up threes. You cannot
help with Boston. You cannot help with the Lakers. It
turns into a one on one contest, and the Celtics
just did a much better job of it in this
particular matchup.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You know, it's funny. I saw a piece of video,
so I had said on the Luca trade, I would
never have traded him, but if you gave me three
firsts Ad and Austin Rivers, I'd sleep on it. And
I said that because I've always said Luca is a
much better Carmelo. I never think he's in great shape.
I don't know. I think he sometimes takes the ball
(16:55):
out of teammate's hands. And you know, I don't think
I love Luca, but I saw when Luca first arrived
in Los Angeles. He looked puffy, hadn't played since December.
He's never been in great shape. But my take was
La gets you in better shape. The lifestyle is different
and Lebron and the pressure, you know, to kind of
(17:17):
impress Lebron. You can see Steph showing off with Jimmy Butler.
Lebron's kind of showing off with Luca. I mean, it's
just it's it's ego, it's fun. You finally got your match.
And the players I meant, Steph is more efficient. Lebron's
playing with an energy of a twenty seven year old.
So so, but somebody pointed this out to me yesterday
because I watched the entire game. They said, look at
the energy of Jason Tatum on both ends of the floor,
(17:41):
and Luca has bad stretches like right now, like he
has these four or five minutes or longer moments on
the floor and you're like, bro, you're just you're a
negative right now, like you're you're just getting beat off
the ball. And do you think this is something Luca
because you're nodding your head, you're seeing it too. Does
Luca play himself in the better shape or did Dallas
(18:04):
with their concerns about these consistent calf injuries about not
being in shape and lifestyle. Do you think we're getting
eighty percent in Los Angeles of Luca that some of
the videos on the internet that show him three years
ago through he was tomahawk in it and you're like,
not really quite what I see? Now? What is your
take on where Luca's at and where he'll end up
(18:26):
as a Laker.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
So that's a tough game for under any circumstances, to
go on the road in Boston. A Boston team that's
had some disappointing losses at home this year and was
kind of itching for they were itching for a signature win,
Like the Celtics really wanted that one. I mean, you
could tell the level of intensity they brought right from
the opening tip. It's a tough game under any circumstances.
(18:48):
Luca is not yet back into his peak shape. It's
gonna take a little while to get there. I actually
think it'll be somewhat there's a little bit of a
blessing in disguise with the Lebron injury, because Lebron has
been going full bore since like mid January, and it
was kind of inevitable that there'd be some sort of
nagging thing that would arise over the course of this stretch.
(19:10):
And I actually think it'll be pretty nice for Lebron
to get like a month off here, a couple weeks
off here, just to take a little break before the postseason.
That'll get more time for Luca to really lean into usage,
to really lean into having the ball in his hands
and build his rhythm back. That said, like, this goes
back to the Dallas series. The Dallas Series is a
different type of challenge the Dallas Boston series. In the finals,
(19:32):
it was a different type of challenge because Boston had
all sorts of dudes that they could help off of.
They were putting chrisops Porzingis onto PJ. Washington and Derek
Jones Junior and leaving him under the basket. The Lakers
will be able to create more space for him, But
he wasn't even getting past Jalen Brown for the most part.
Last night, like just one on one, Jalen Brown had
him in clamps and was bringing a ton of physicality,
(19:54):
and like, there's this kind of recurring theme I've seen
ogn Andobi did a little bit on Thursday night. I
don't know if you I caught the Knicks game, it
was kind of a little bit similar in that game.
All the way back to the second round series with
Oklahoma City last year, lou Dort gave Lucas some issues.
Lucas struggles with the really big and strong forwards that
can guard, and so there's a little mini challenge here.
(20:15):
If the Lakers are going to be able to defeat
a team like Boston in the finals, Luca's going to
have to overcome the Jalen Brown problem. But as far
as the big picture goes, he's twenty five years old.
He's playing alongside one of the greatest work ethic dudes
you're going to meet in the league, one of the
greatest take care of your body type of dudes that
you see in the league. I think Luca's going to
get to a level of better conditioning. That said, I
don't think he's going to be the dude who had
(20:36):
like seventeen dunks in his rookie year. I think those shit,
I think that shit might have sailed.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You know it's interesting with the Celtics because Tatum played
very well. And you know, I say this often on
the show, that there's a real gap in them in
what fans view as hate and what I view as contextualization.
So every time I talk about Jason Tatum, I always
say he's great. He's a great player. He's a top
eight player in the league. I don't believe he's top three.
I trust Sja offensively more, trust Jokich is all around better.
(21:05):
I trust Jannis defensively more. I think Luca at his
best is a better, more natural offensive player. Hell, if
you gave me one quarter to win it all game seven,
I take Lebron over Jason Tatum. I actually would. But
he's a great player. He's going to be a Hall
of Famer. He's a nice kid. But I've said this,
there are games where I'm like, where is he? Is
(21:27):
he on the floor? Now, this was not one of them.
He was terrific and I've watched him now play live
three or four times. I get to the arena early
he's the first guy on the floor. But it is interesting.
People get very upset about this, and I've said this
in the Olympics, when you're playing with the world's best players.
He was a coach's decision do not play against Serbia,
and he had two in the gold medal game, and
(21:48):
that Lebron and Steph flourished in those games. So there
are players that sometimes are around great players. Lebron was
like this very early in his first Olympics. He was like,
finally it opened up more of Lebron. And then there
are players that actually love playing within a system. I
think Jason is one of those players. I think his God,
(22:10):
his DNA is he's a teammate. You know, he likes
being part of a collective. He chose Duke so he
could play with other great players, right like like Shryzewsky
makes you play defense. He was there with the you know,
Grayson Allen, Luke Cannard, if I'm remembering right, Like, so,
my take is I think he's a star. I think
(22:33):
the NBA's only ever had three true faces of the League, Magic,
Michael Lebron. I think Bird was a reluctant because he
was conjoined with Magic. He was facing the league, but
Magic was the face of the league. He he loved it.
You know, French Lick, Indiana pimples on the face, grumpy
Larry Bird didn't feel face of the league. But you
know you join him at the hit with Magic, and
(22:55):
it's like Okay and Shaq and Kobe. I think you
could argue as a pair or face the league for
several years. Duncan never was a team, never was. Karl
Malone never was. So what do you make of kind
of my criticism of Tatum. It's not a criticism. It's
more like, listen, at any one time, the NBA has
two faces or one face of the league, two global stars,
(23:17):
and about fifteen other stars Carmelo Anthony, guys, is that
unrealistic to say? No?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I mean, I heard your rant about Jason Tatum, and frankly, like,
there is truth to the fact that Tatum lacks like
the traditional NBA aura right, Like, he's a good dunker,
but he's not Vince Carter. He's a good shooter, but
he's not Kevin Durant. He's big and strong, but he's
not Lebron. He's a good playmaker, but he's not Luka Doncic.
(23:47):
He's a good defender, but he's not what Kawhi Leonard
was in his prime, and he doesn't really have a
very big personality, So like it's really hard to like
put together you know, something specific about Jason Tatum to
like market really well as far as like face of
the league type of stuff that said, like he's really
good at all of those things. Still yees, he's become
(24:10):
like just by virtue of him being a jack of
all trades, he's become one of the most useful players
in the entire NBA. This has kind of been the
interesting trajectory of Jason Tatum's career if you go back
into early years in like eighteen nineteen twenty. In those years,
Tatum was like projected to be one of the best
shooting forwards in the league. He had some unbelievable jump
shooting seasons during that stretch. Then what happened was is
(24:34):
he started to bulk up and he got really big
and strong, and it greatly improved his defensive versatility. He
improved as a playmaker. But in that stretch twenty twenty one,
twenty twenty two, twenty three, twenty four, his jump shot
fell apart and became super unreliable to the point where
it was like sometimes it goes in, sometimes it doesn't.
Fifty in a playoff game, he'll have seventeen in a
(24:54):
playoff game, you know, Like it became one of those
things where he couldn't rely on the jump shot. Honestly,
I think think the Team USA situation right off of
the heels of last year's playoff run, as he shot
very poorly in the playoffs on jump shots and then
he shot what for sixteen with Team USA. I think
he got humiliated and spent the entire summer in the gym,
(25:15):
and he's added like a reliable jump shot to the
Swiss army knife that he already was, and now it's
one of those things where, like I agree with you,
I think Jokic is better. I think Giannis is better.
I think Shay's better. I think Luka Doncic is better.
I think if you asked like league average role players
alongside all those players, I think Tatum is behind those guys.
(25:35):
But I do think he's closer to that tier or
in that tier at the bottom as opposed to the
next set of guys. Like when you look at the
next set of guys like, I think Tatum brings more
on a night in, night out basis than Anthony Davis does.
I think Tatum brings more on a night in night
out basis than that next tier guys, Kevin Durant, Lebron,
James Stephka. I think he deserves credit for being like
(25:57):
a foundational, reliable, you can count on this dude type
of superstar. But I also think everything you said regarding
he does not have a flash point in his skill set.
There's nothing on that. There's not well think about that.
You can close your eyes.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I've said this and I can think of like five
Michael plays, six Lebron plays a bunch of magic bird.
You close your eyes with Tatum and you're like, it's
like Carl Malone. I don't have a Carl Malone play.
I don't have a Duncan play. There is something about
the persona, the or the imagery that his face of
the league. Okay, so I watch most of the Nuggets
thunder game. I missed the first quarter, but Shay went
(26:36):
off for forty. Of course, this week Jokich had a
you know, a thirty twenty twenty plus game, right, It's
I think it was the first time ever in league history,
and somebody to do that. So I love Jokic. I
thought he should have won three straight and Bead was
sort of gifted one. But I'll tell you why I
would give it to Sga. I'd give it to Shaye.
So I've said this on many occasions. Words matter, and
(27:00):
get in trouble for the wrong word, but you have
to watch the words. It's most valuable. Now. Production is
a huge component to value, right like valuable is I mean,
I always say this, Moms are usually the most valuable
person in a house. Dad may make more, the kids
may have a brighter future. Mom's the MVP, she's the glue,
(27:22):
and she's super productive, right Like, at least in my house,
mom was the most valuable player dad. My dad was
the local optometrist. He paid the bills. So Jokic, you
can argue, is more productive. Okay, but he's playing with
Gordon Porter, Jamal Murray and a coach that's got a
(27:44):
ring thanks to Jokich SGA, And this is about fifteen
percent of it. As a better defender. SGA plays with
a roster that is so young it only averages one
year older than the Auburn Tigers roster. So he is
playing with kids, and that matters. They're still figuring out
(28:04):
how to play basketball. Not to mention chet Homekin, you know,
has been out for a while. I mean, you can
argue outside of Shade, nobody else on that roster none
of their best offensive players have even hit their prime yet.
So and that's one of the reasons I worry about
them in the playoffs winning big road games with this
young roster. So based on the fact that his production
(28:25):
isn't Jokic, but it's damn good. He's a better defender,
he's carrying a younger roster and didn't have homegrun for
a spell, I would narrowly give Shaye the MVP. What
say you, So?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I actually think Shay has a decent sized lead it
really let's just get to the foundational piece of the case.
He's twelve games ahead of Denver and the standings twelve.
That's an enormous gap between those two teams, and so
when you start to make a case for Jokic, it
needs to be overwhelming. And there are some things with
(29:01):
Jokic that I think are realities. I think Jokic is
a better basketball player than Shake Gildas Alexander Same. I
think Denver would fall apart more than OKC would fall
apart if the two players were removed. But that's never
been the way that we've given MVP. It's never been
sheer value in a vacuum. It's never been who's the
guy that we think is the best player for a
(29:22):
sixteen win playoff front, right, That's never been the way
we've done it. It's always been a combination of a
bunch of factors, team success, your individual value, like your
reputation in the league. There's always been a narrative element
that's regardless of how we want to pretend like it
should be factored in, it does get factored in. There's narrative,
there's momentum, there's all of that kind of stuff. It's
kind of like the Jokic thirty twenty twenty game. It's like,
(29:44):
here we are two thirds of the way through the season,
Jokic puts together a stat line that's never happened in
NBA history. Hey, let's revisit this thing. Even though the
thunder have been consistently a better basketball team this year,
I think two things. One, Shay's having a much better
offensive season than pep are giving him credit for. You
mentioned the youth. The youth for the thunder manifests an inconsistency.
(30:07):
J Dubb is an incredible player. He is what twenty
two or he's young. He's super inconsistent. Chet incredible player.
He's young. He's gonna make mistakes. He's not a guy
that's super dependable night in night out. He's shot twenty
something percent from three in the series against Dallas last year.
Shae is the grown up in the room. Shae is
(30:27):
the night to night guy. So many of these games
break down for the thunder against good teams in particular,
So many of these games break down where it looks
like every single Thunder player is uncomfortable and a little
bit like a little bit like kind of shying away
from the moment and ches and Shae has to grab
the reins and like control things and like as Chet's
(30:48):
been out of the lineup a bunch this year. As
Jay Dubb has had a down shooting season and he's
coming on as of late, but he's had a down
shooting season. Shay's been carrying him through that. Shay has
been the guy that has lifted their elite defense to
the point where they can win games, and so I
think he deserves more credit than that. The second piece
of it is a reality with Denver. Denver has lost
(31:08):
a lot of games this year because they can't guard
oh at all, and Jokic, for the record, in the
twenty twenty three postseason, had a very good playoff run Defensively,
he is capable of having good moments on defense. However,
there is a simple reality with Jokic that causes a
lot of problems for Denver's defense. He cannot switch onto
(31:31):
perimeter players and he can't play on his heels back
at the rim because guys just jump right over him
and go around him. That forces Jokic to come out
to the level of ball screens and put two on
the ball. So Denver persistently exists in rotation. They persistently
exist in four on threes. That's how the Suns score
(31:53):
on them so easily. That's how the Lakers scored on
them so easily. That is the problem that they consistently
run into is Jokic has to come up to the level.
When he comes up to the level, it's a simple
pocket passer skip pass, and they're playing four on three
out of it, and they just haven't been very good
defensively this year on the back line rotating out of it,
and so they just haven't been as good. Their defense
is bad. Jokich is a significant part of that. I
(32:16):
think that gets factored into this debate. And so when
I really look at it in the big picture, there's
not enough for Jokisch, even though I think he's having
an unbelievable season, arguably the best offensive season ever. But
if you look at it, it's not enough to justify
that twelve game gap in the standings and then to
tie things up. Shades drop forty on them today as
they got to win.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I think we're on the same page. Well,
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(32:57):
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(33:17):
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in a bottle today. You know it's God. I would
have I thought. A month before it happened, I said, Warriors,
(33:59):
just get Jimmy Butler. I don't care what analytics say.
Steph is sleepwalking. And I remember saying, Butler's the anti Wiggins,
Like every possession is intentional, totally intense, everything's a street fight.
I always thought Wiggins was talented, a little passive. You know,
you didn't know possession of possession if he was engaged
(34:20):
I think we talked about this last time, so I
thought Butler would be a big help. It is amazing
there were eleven and two since Jimmy Butler arrived. What's
interesting now, if you start looking at their playoff position,
they could end up against Houston, which I think is
the dream scenario for Golden State because Houston can't shoot,
Like that's the team you want to play. A young
(34:41):
team that struggles shooting, you can beat Golden State. You know,
they don't have a ton of offensive firepower from the
perimeter outside of Steph Pods a little bit. But when
you watch the Warriors, it's really interesting. Oklahoma City again
is tremendous def team, but I don't trust them, okay
(35:03):
seeing a big road playoff game. They're too young. I
think Golden State has a lower ceiling, but an incredibly
high floor. And I think outside of maybe at Cleveland,
Boston could go seven games with almost anybody. Is there
a team let's just look ahead. Is there a team
the Warriors would not want to face in the West
(35:24):
and the playoffs that you just don't think is a
good matchup at all. Well, that's an interesting question because Dallas,
if healthy, would be tough with Gafford Lively ad they're
center rotations great, They're a big team, and I could
see that team slowing it down and being just a
(35:45):
handful for the Warriors. But I think they're going to
go into a soft tank here and just keep everybody out.
I don't think it's a terrible idea. So Minnesota, if
they had the twin Towers, you know, if they had
Cat and go Bear could be problematic. But I sort
of look at the West, I'm like, I don't know,
is there a team.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I think they're gonna get out of the plane. It's
been really fascinating just how immediately good they've been, and
it's been kind of like a kind of a proof
of concept for me about roster balance. Just like, no
matter what you're doing, if you ever ask somebody to
do too much, they're gonna be inefficient, they're gonna start
making mistakes. And there were so many role players for
that team that were being asked to do so much
more than they're doing now because there was no Jimmy,
(36:26):
and Jimmy's come in and just like crystallize everyone's roles
and everyone just has consistent minutes in the rotation. Now,
and everything's coming together for them, they're gonna get out
of the plane. In my opinion, if that's the case,
it's the team that I would want to face if
I was. Golden State is a team that they can
load up on defensively, and so I think a team
like Denver, if they got the six to three matchup
(36:47):
against a team like Denver, that'd be good. Memphis is
another team like that that is a poor spot up
team that they could load the paint up on. The
Other thing I like we talked about earlier with being
able to bring Yokic up to the level Steph is
that Steph is the guy that will consistently get Denver's
defense into rotation, and now they have Jimmy Butler to
be the guy that kind of helps pay off those sequences,
(37:08):
as he's been so good in the middle of the
floor this year. I think, yeah, I would lean towards
if I was. The problem with the Lakers is Lebron
and Luca will just hunt their small guards all day
long in space, and I think that that could be
a problem for them and the Laker defense, like we
talked about earlier, is keyed up on the ability to
help off of people, and there are a couple guys
for Golden State that they feel like they can help
(37:30):
off of. So I think Denver if they got into
that sixth spot, I'd be looking at if Denver slipped
to the three as a potential matchup that they could upset.
Houston and Memphis, to me, are both gettable. I look
at it as I don't know about how you feel, Colin,
but I think there's a five team inner circle. I
think it's Boston and Cleveland out east, and I think
it's ok See, Denver and the Lakers out west. I
(37:52):
think those five teams are the like if those five
teams are the teams that have substantial chances to win
the championship. Behind that, all of those teams I think
are pretty heavily flawed. Golden State has been really good
since the Jimmy Butler trade, but they've played a relatively
light schedule, so I'd like to see a little bit
more before I decide where they kind of fit into
all of this. Like the Lakers before they beat before
(38:15):
they lost to Boston, they beat fourteen straight five hundred
or better teams like that. That's how good the Lakers
were playing before that. Celtics game. I'm not going to
bail on them because they flew across the country after
a bunch of after a beatal schedule in last.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
And missing and missing two of the longest players.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, two vitally important starters. They're vertical spacer and Jackson Hait. Like,
how how often did you see Jared Vanderbilt catch the
ball under the basket yesterday with no idea what to
do because he can't finish over anybody. But like that,
that's the thing, Like I I kind of have a
feeling that the Lakers are one of the inner circle
teams because I've just seen them be so good for
so long against so many good teams. I want to
(38:53):
see a little bit more like from Golden State, because
I do think they can enter into that group. But
I just want to see a little bit more from them.
But I think between Denver and LA i'd want to
play Denver if I was then.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
You know, I was thinking about this topic. I didn't
do it on TV because I didn't know if it
was worthy. Stephen A. Smith Lebron James had that interaction right,
and you know, it's funny. I've always been a fan
of Lebron and I know stephen A. I text him
twice recently, a former teammate over at ESPN, and I'm
(39:27):
always sensitive. I'm glad my son and daughter did not
choose broadcasting. I wouldn't want him to be compared to
their dad. And if they got criticized, my take his well,
you got into this business. So you know. My first
reaction is, Bronnie James is a Laker because Clutch Sports
(39:48):
and Lebron James made sure everybody knew we want him
to be a Laker. He was not a dominant college player.
In fact, his size and skill set is really not
that of an NBA player, but not a point guard.
Not a lot of six to two off guards in
NBA history, and right now he's not shooting particularly well.
He's athletic, he's a good kid, smart. I think he
(40:10):
was draftable. It was one of the weaker drafts. I
defended the Lakers drafting him a great draft. Maybe not
in this draft, which was one of the weaker draft,
but every fourth or fifth NBA draft. You know, this
draft coming up is very domestic and very very interesting.
At the top, there's some really good players from great programs.
Last year was an international draft, and a lot of
(40:31):
projecting didn't have a problem being draft. You know, it
was a bit of a flex for Clutch Sports on
Lebron to get him in LA, kind of a power flex.
And again, you're making eight million bucks. You were wedged
into an organization that probably, you know, in most years,
wouldn't have drafted a player of your skill level. I
(40:54):
tend to defend journalists having the right to opinions, and
people say, well, you know, it's it's you know, here's
one of the things where I think Lebron James in
his mind is doing the right thing. Don't bad mouth
my son. But I've seen many broadcasters get their kids
(41:15):
into broadcasting and their kids aren't very good. Some are,
some are not. And that's the reality of a public
facing job. Mayor basketball player, sportscaster. You know you're not
you know you're not. You know, this is not a
job that's you know, you write annuities or you're in
waste management. Like everybody knows his name. So my take is, listen,
(41:37):
you you have an eight million dollar contract. You're fair game,
right that that's the way it goes. But you played basketball. No,
Lebron his kind of ideology, the way he thinks. What
was your sort of take on it?
Speaker 3 (41:50):
You know, it's interesting. I've been thinking so much about
this over the course of the last couple of weeks
because it's a dynamic that I relate to a certain extent.
I remember, like when I was playing at Arizona Christian
when I was in Naia. I remember like watching a
broadcast of a game and I was having a brutal
shooting season when I was in college. This was the
one this is the season that I had my worst
(42:10):
three point shooting season. It was I was in my head.
I was in this like small role where I was
doing taking all these catch and shoot threes out of
the corner, and I was just having a brutal offensive season,
and so I was struggling with it. And I heard
this announcer who was announcing one of the games like
talking junk about me in the broadcast, and I remember
getting like super upset about it because I'm like, I'm
taking three hundred shots a day. I'm doing everything I
(42:32):
can to fix this problem, and this like dude who
has no idea what I'm doing, is criticizing the way
that I'm playing, and like I think about that a
lot from NBA players, where I get it, like me
relative to an NBA player, even as someone who played
me relative to an NBA player, I don't. I don't
have the cachet or the or the reputation to be
able to criticize the greatest basketball players in the world.
(42:54):
And so on a certain level, I sympathize with the plight.
But then what you said is the is the most
important context there. We chose a career that exists in
the public view. I have a relatively small platform among
the big shots in the media world. I deal with
(43:15):
a shit ton of negativity every day. I can't even
imagine what you deal with. We won't even go there.
But there's just this outrageous amount of negativity. To your point, Colin, like,
I'm living the dream. I love my job. I love
the flexibility that I have. I love that I get
to talk about the game of basketball. This opportunity that
you have given me has changed my life infinitely for
the better. And so I would never sit there and
(43:37):
hyper focus on this specific part of my job that's
a negative because it's just so worth it. And that's
really what it comes down to, is like from the
NBA player's perspective, it's just the reality of the predicament
that they're in. They have this wonderful life that comes
from being a professional basketball player, but it comes with
this criticism. The second piece of it is, to me,
the criticism is authentic and necessary. And I was thankful
(44:01):
in Lebron's tweet thread that he included in there like hey,
when players fail, we need to discuss it. And I'm
so glad he said that, because here's the thing. Sports
are nasty. They're mean, they're violent, you talk shit, you
step on each other to get to the finish line.
It is inherently nasty, and there's a winner and a loser,
and in order for us to discuss the winner and
the loser, it inherently requires us to be critical from
(44:24):
time to time. It is part of the job. If
we came on every day and we just only said
nice things about players, we'd have no credibility. There's a
certain amount of this to where it makes it mean
more when we say a player succeeds if we also
criticize them when they fail. My thing with it is like,
just make sure you're doing your homework, Like if you're
(44:45):
going to criticize someone, make sure it's based in the homework,
you know what I mean, Because I got a certain
point if you're just talking shit to talk shit. Now
we're entering down a darker path. But I've found this
really fascinating because on one hand, I relate to players,
but on the other hand, like this is just the
reality of the situation that we're in.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
That Yeah, that's why I asked you. Yeah, because you know,
you played college basketball, and I've I've tried to never
make it personal. Although you know, like I said for
years about Carmelo Anthony, I'm like, man, if you're not
willing to play defense, James Harden I felt the same way,
you're not a great teammate because defense's effort. Offense is
a lot of skill, it's a lot of fun. Playing
(45:23):
defense sucks, it's hard. So what you're basically saying if
you won't defend, and I feel this about Luca, is yeah,
I'm kind of above that. Well, the utter ten guys aren't.
So I've always thought when players don't commit to the
defensive end, I think less of them. And you're kind of,
you know, you're kind of sending a message to the
teammates say you do that, I'll do the fun part.
(45:46):
And so that's one of the reasons I've always respected
Lebron Is in his defense in the last twenty games, Jesus,
it doesn't even make sense for a forty year old.
So and I've always been a huge Lebron fan, and
I actually supported the Lake drafting Bronnie. I supported Bronnie
playing in that game so that father son record could
be set. I'm for it. I was a little critical
(46:08):
when he had one good, really nice G League game
and they quickly moved him up, you know, to the Lakers,
and I'm like, guys, now you're asking me as a
broadcaster to lie to the audience and I'm not going
to do that. Is that he's not an NBA player,
he may work himself into a you know, eighth ninth
guy in a roster, and I'm rooting for that because
(46:30):
I really do think Savannah and Lebron have done a
wonderful job considering this generational wealth. They're good people. They're
grounded as much as you can be. If you're Ronaldo
Messi Lebron Brady, right like, you just kind of bake
in some of this shit. Ain't normal, right, So it's
just interesting. You know, I think the audience wants me
to have definitive takes and take a side. But I
(46:52):
think Steven A. Smith does have a right to be
honest about Bronnie. But I also get the dad part.
But I do come back to listen the minute you
made that decision to wedge Brownie on to the Lakers.
The most sacred part of sports is the uniform. You
(47:17):
gave somebody a uniform, and many question whether he is
uniform worthy. At the NBA level, Like you can say
what you want that owners do and gms do, but
that uniform, in any sport, that is what makes grown
men cry. They work twenty years to wear an NBA uniform. Hell,
(47:39):
it can be a ten day contract, man, If you
get ten days in the NBA, for the rest of
your life. I was an NBA player, And so when
you get somebody to put that jersey on for the
Los Angeles Lakers, there's gonna be some animosity. They got
people going to say, wait a minute, time out, Now,
come on now, And so it's it's one of those
(48:00):
I know, I'm supposed to take a side on this,
and I've said this to people privately, I don't talk
about this that, you know, the Ukraine, Putin Zelenski, Russia,
United States, it's way more complic I've watched more video
on that story in the last six months than everything
(48:20):
except sports. It's there's a lot of complexity with NATO
and the history of Russia and US, and sometimes, if
I'm ever critical of the media, social media has made
simplicity the go to apparatus, and I think Brownie stephen
(48:40):
A Lebron, I think it's complicated. I think there's the
dad thing, there's the history thing, there's the journalist thing.
And I hated to see it because I love Lebron
and I really like steven A. Smith. I like them both.
They're really good at what they do. And I know
that's a considered a soft pedal, but that's how I
(49:02):
feel about it.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
You know, It's so fascinating because you're asking people to
just bring a little bit of nuance into the discussion
with the Lebron stephen A Smith thing, and there's just
none that. It's there's none of that. There's like this
huge anti Lebron He's ruining Bronni's life kind of angle,
and then there's the steven A Smith step to Lebron
and now he's getting Now Lebron's getting in his face
and he's paying the price for his actions. And I'm
(49:24):
sitting there and I'm like, I'm reading, I'm doing the
lip reading when I'm watching Lebron, and he's saying like, like,
keep my son out of this. And to your point,
on a very basic level, Bronni is an NBA player
with a large profile. He's going to get discussed. Like
there's no universe where he's not going to be criticized
like that, like and.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Played at USC and Sierra Canyon. He was a high
profile high school player exactly.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
And like and so like to me, it's like, on
a very basic level, we have to acknowledge stephen A's
right to discuss Bronni. Like that's just that's that's that's
very to me. That's a very simple part of it.
But then there's another reality, which is, like, Okay, Lebron
probably feels like stephen A's used him a little bit
like a punching bag over the course of the last
year or two, and I think Lebron's sick of it
(50:09):
and he's lashing out. So on one hand, I'm like, Okay,
I also support Lebron's right to confront stephen A and
be like, hey, dude, what the heck, But like the
specific point he decided to argue regarding his son, it's
hypocritical because to your point, as soon as you elevate
Bronny to this level, how could you possibly hope to
protect him from that type of criticism. It's part of
the deal. You've dealt. Dealt with it, Lebron. You, Lebron,
(50:31):
you are the most polarizing player in NBA history. Like this,
you know this?
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Let me add something else that I think again is nuanced.
One of the reasons I've always been so impressed with
Lebron James. He didn't grow up with a father. Okay,
It's pretty understood that both parents can, over the course
(50:58):
of time, be very better official to any child who
then becomes an adult. Lebron James has stayed out of trouble,
and he did not have that guiding strong hand of
a father, and yet you would never know it. He's
been a terrific father, a terrific husband, a wonderful businessman.
He is such a good friend. I know two of
(51:21):
Lebron's friends Lebron's a great friend, and could I argue
that Lebron takes so much pride in being a father
because he did not have that at home, that he
is going to err on the side of overprotective. And
I'm going to defend the hell out of Lebron for
(51:42):
that right. I'm sorry now again. I maybe I'm wrong,
Maybe I'm too sympathetic. And my dad wasn't always around,
but he was around enough that I had a dad,
and he was a local town optometrist, and I was
very proud, and he gave me multiple moments of wisdom
(52:03):
and advice and a spanking or two when I when
I turned the sprinkler on as he was trying to
move it and Flack Flack black hit my dad as
he had his white doctor jacket on heading to work
and was soaked and had to go back inside. I
got spanked that day. I was laughing hysterically for a while.
So I have these moments in my life where my
(52:24):
father had a great impact. I mean, I was talking
to a friend the other day about a moment that
my dad said something. He was like, I was twelve
years old. It has been with me my entire life,
and so maybe I'm just being too overly sympathetic. But
Lebron didn't have a father at home, and if he's
airing on the side of, hey, man, I protect my family,
(52:46):
this is it for me. Man, I'm this is a
bubble that I am gonna if I if I'm airing
on the side of overprotective. I got Lebron's back on that.
And that's the kind of stuff I think of as
somebody that's divorced. Six kids are in my life. How
do I be a step parent? I think about all
that stuff. Maybe I'm too old and protective, but I
(53:08):
just I think it's more complex than steven A is
a bad guy and Lebron's a good guy and it's
just that's not the way life is, right.
Speaker 3 (53:18):
No, I agree, And to your point, like there's the
the motivating factor is something that all parents can relate to.
It kind of goes back to what we were talking
about just in overall player criticism. Just because the player
is being unrealistic about the realities of his profession and
the fact that criticism comes with that profession, it doesn't
make it like I also relate to that player when
(53:40):
he pushes back and when the player goes like to
like today, Kevin Durant tweeted at Skip Bayless like, I
also understand the reason why he might want to clap back,
even though Kevin Durant should be realistic about the fact
that he's one of the greatest players of all time.
Therefore media Yeah, so basically, Skip Bayles said that Kevin
(54:03):
Durant looks like he's already mentally retired, and kat tweeted
him and said, I guess that means both of us
are washed.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
By the way I watched that game Katie had twenty
one n.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Katie's been awesome this year. Like the Sun's issues are
like entirely organizational Katie's. I think if someone gets Katie
this summer, he's gonna walk right in and help a
team win a title, or at least get him close.
Like he's so good, He's so good.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Oh, he's so good. I would love to sit down
and break bread with Kevin Durant. I really love the guy.
I think he's such a fun player. I like everything
about him. I hated him leaving Golden State, but he's
such a unique all time player. I love Kevin Durant.
I love watching him play I like his quirky personality.
(54:51):
Jason Temp, host of Hoops Tonight. This was fantastic. I
had some NFL news before you, but this was really good.
Let me throw this out there, folks. The Steeler are
going to sign DK Metcalf to a five year, one
hundred and fifty million dollar contract. I'm just telling you
I wouldn't do it, and I like DK Metcalf. That
is way too much money for a wide receiver, especially
(55:13):
for an organization that can't figure out offense. As always, Jason,
your money, Thanks buddy.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
It was good to see you, Colin. Looking forward to
next time.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
The volume
Host
Colin Cowherd
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