Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright: Russ Signs With The Giants, Diggs Gets Payday From Pats, Who Drafts Shedeur? Chalk Dominates March Madness

Colin’s joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Thing’s First” on FS1

They start with the breaking news of Stefon Diggs getting a massive contract with the Patriots.  Colin offers his theory that Pats coach Mike Vrabel was willing to overpay Diggs after he struggled coaching the Titans after A.J. Brown was traded, but Nick offers some pushback (3:30).

They move to Russell Wilson signing with the Giants and whether that means the Giants are signaling their intention to pass on drafting Shedeur Sanders, whether they think he’ll be gone by pick #3 (9:30). 

They talk about the mediocrity of the Steelers as a franchise for the past several years and why they need a fresh start without Mike Tomlin (25:00). They also break down why the Dallas Cowboys overpaying Dak Prescott should offer a cautionary tale to the 49ers about paying Brock Purdy top dollar (32:15). 

They discuss Rams star wide receiver Puka Nacua announcing his intentions to retire by age 30 and discuss why going public with that information does NOTHING to help him (43:45), and why locking in a particular mindset can make the difference between success or failure (53:30) .  

Finally, they compare and contrast the big brands vs mid-majors in college basketball and Colin explains why he isn’t enough of a “nerd” to watch smaller schools and why only a few college basketball teams are even watchable (1:14:00). They wrap up with some banter over professional gamblers vs. the amateurs (1:23:45). 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Well, I've said it before, Fubo is one
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(00:22):
You will get fifty dollars off for two months of
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(00:44):
slash Colin, fifty bucks off two months Fubo. All right,
we haven't had Nick right on in a while. You
see him Tuesday on the Herd. But this is a looser,
kind of a looser engagement, which I always appreciate. And
there's a couple pieces of NFL news. Russell Wilson signed

(01:07):
with the New York Giants ten million dollars guaranteed. Stefan
Diggs signed with.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
A pay Oh my god, did you see how much money.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Diggs got sixty nine million, twenty six million guaranteed.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Here's you know.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
My take on this is they made two big overpays
Stefan Diggs and Williams the defensive tables for Philadelphia. Yeah,
both are paid double what they're worth. They had the
most cap space, so in both instances, you know, that's

(01:41):
what the market bears. I wouldn't have paid for Steffan Diggs,
although I do think now he's probably a very capable two.
I think what Mike Rabel. I have a theory on Vrabel.
So Vrabel knows what cost him his job in Tennessee.
He lost AJ Brown and he walked into New England. However,
you lose your job at a previous employer, that will

(02:05):
be your first solve at your next job.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
And his tick is okay.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
I can figure out the line play, the culture, the intelligence.
I can't have a team that can't throw the ball
down the field. So they're gonna draft Travis Hunter, and
they got Stefan Diggs, and then they've got guys that
can be the three, four and five. So I think
Rabel looks at it and thinks, listen, this is this
is a pretty easy I got Drake may I got
a good owner, I got a tough guy roster. I'm

(02:33):
not gonna end up in Tennessee because what would happen
if for two years they couldn't score? People would label
of Rabel. You know his teams are tough, but they
can't do anything authentically.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Tom right, that's right. So he's going to solve this.
So I get this overpay. Okay, So I understand the logic. Revithing.
You're saying it assumes Stefan Diggs can still play and
wants to play. I don't know that that's true. Diggs
last year was fine. He was not great. He was

(03:05):
fine fine, and now he is going to at the
start of next season be ten months, not even a
full year, removed from the first major injury of his career.
It's in acl it is I he I would not
like the Bills didn't want him back. He's free agent.

(03:30):
It's not like they're stacked at receiver. Now. The Bills
could have done the ultimate thing the Patriots used to do,
which is a build up a player's value, let him leave,
get you know, trade him for value, and then bring
him back. They didn't want him twenty This is if
you would have asked me before this show, Diggs is
gonna sign, what is his deal going to be? I'd

(03:53):
be like, I don't know, man like ten percent less
than Devonte Adams deal. What did devatte get one for
fifteen three for sixty nine? Even if it's funny money,
twenty six million guaranteed is a shitload of money for
Stefan Diggs, who wears out his welcome, and I don't
know if he is good for Drake May And also

(04:14):
the other piece of it is I agree with a
lot of what you were saying. Why aren't the Patriots
the team that traded for Joe Toney? That one? I
don't get like he used to be there, he won
super Bowls there, he you know what I mean, there
is a real relationship. They had a better third round. Well,
it's next year's third round pick. But the Chiefs, I

(04:35):
would imagine, would prefer to have a Patriots third rounder
than a Bear's third rounder for next season. Why them
not addressing the offensive line, missing out on receivers and
then having to pay double what I thought Diggs would
cost is a wild turn of events. Listen, if he's good,

(04:57):
I get it, because the money who gives about the money.
You have all money to spend. I just don't know
the Digs Also Diggs is I could see Stefan dig
Like if Diggs went to a real contender, I could
see him locking in for another year. Could I see
Stefan Diggs being like retirement job boys, I'm not getting

(05:19):
another deal after this one anyway, like I could. And
so he's also a pretty wild guy off the field,
like is he he had? So there was So there's
two things. There is a one of those team videos
that just I can't get out of my head. It's

(05:39):
when he was with I think the Vikings, where like
the team social media went around to guys and they
were like, hey, who in the locker room would you
want your sister to date? And they give a bunch
of an answers and then they're like who would you
not want her to date? And every single fucking guy

(06:00):
said Diggs, every single one of his teammates was like
not stuff on, not Digs. It was it was unanimous,
like stay away from him. Then there's also some weird
Again I don't traffic in rumors, there's some weird Digs
and Cardi b stuff out there that just feels like,
listen the guy again, he can do whatever you want.

(06:21):
My point is, seems to really enjoy his celebrity and
night life and all of that. And how well do
players like that age at post injury? Not most getting
paid typically it's not the Larry Fitzgerald path of I
am locked, and so that that concerns me a bit,

(06:44):
if I'm being honest. The Russell Wilson thing that's very
interesting to me is Justin Field's got double the guarantee,
triple the what Justin Field's got two for forty with
thirty guaranteed? Right? Yea? Russ just got one for twenty
with ten guarantee. Yeh that's interesting. Well, I still think
go ahead. I I don't think either is necessarily better

(07:06):
than the other. I think you are paying for Justin
Fields on a little bit of hope is that there's
more to squeeze, There's more juice to potentially squeeze out
of this young, hardworking player. I think the feeling is, listen, man,
this is the last this is the last stop for us.
And and by the way, there Justin Fields is an

(07:29):
example of somebody that will never be a franchise quarterback.
But he's a good kid, he is big, he's got
a ways love him. Yeah, and being a nice guy.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Adds value, Like there are guys that it's like, you know,
and if it doesn't work, he's a good dude in
the room.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Guys like him. Nice guy, low maintenance isn't gonna know
one hundred. It's always. So here's my question though, for
you on the Giants, because this is happening, like as
we're recording, So they gave Jamis a deal just four million.
They just signed Ross. Do you think this means there?
If he's there, they're not drafting shador I think. I

(08:09):
think my guess is I don't hold Joe Shane in
high regard. I also hold my own opinions on quarterbacks
in pretty high regard, and I hold my sourcing on
quarterbacks in very high regard. So I trust my own judgment.
I didn't like Daniel Jones, I didn't like Zach Wilson.
I probably like Sam Darnold too much. But Sam prove

(08:31):
what last year, which I believe, which is if you
put him in the right spot, he can be incredibly productive, dynamic.
I would draft Shadeur Sanders for a lot of reasons.
And I talked about one on the show today. He
had the worst online in the worst run game the
last two years Power five college football, and he completed
an astounding seventy four percent of his throws. That is insane.

(08:58):
Matt Ryan completed six sixty for bad teams in college
I mean Matt Stafford with good Georgia teams completed sixty
one and a half percent. Seventy four percent running for
your life, trailing everybody knows you're throwing with a battle
line of no run game.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
It's an astounding number. So I think you you can
talk yourself in and out. I still think you draft
Shade or Sanders. I still think you do.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
So I don't know if this is a sign. This
is a sign to me of one of them, because
you don't sign Russ and Jamis. If you're like, we're
definitely drafting a quarterback, like you don't need to conan backups, right,
to me, this is a sign that either they they

(09:46):
don't like him, or they think Cleveland might take it,
you know what I mean that they think there is
a real chance that they don't have the opportunity to
get him. Now. New England is praying it is not
that they don't like him, because the only thing that

(10:07):
wrecks the Patriots plans is if the draft goes like this,
cam Ward one, Abdul Carter two, Travis Hunter three, in
that where the Giants are like, you know what Malik
neighbors Travis Hunter with Hunter, you know, moonlighting as a

(10:28):
defensive back, and then the Patriots are sitting there at
four and are like, Jesus, are we taking the you know,
the short armed offensive lineman. Are we taking the kid
from Missouri that should go nine? At four? Like? The
Patriots really really want two of the first three picks
to be quarterbacks. That way they guarantee to get in.

(10:50):
My opinion, tell me if you disagree, I think there
are take the quarterbacks out of it. I think there
are two super blue chip players in this class and Hunter, yeah,
and then everyone else. You know, I'm not saying I'm
sure other guys will be great players, but there's two
guys that are like, oh wow, that could be a
non quarterback. That's the talent of a number one pick.

(11:13):
The Patriots, I think would be thrilled with either of
those two. What they don't want is both of those
guys to be gone. And then to be stuck drafting
offensive lineman that could be there at twelve at four
and so I'm really curious if this is because the
Giants don't like Shador or the Giants have intel that
the Browns love Shador.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, and I think Shador's built for Kevin Stefanski, who
likes pocket quarterbacks over moovers. So I think eventually and
the only way to get out of the Deshaun Watson
disaster is how did the Broncos get out of the
Russell Wilson disaster? Hit on a rookie quarterback that you
don't have to pay big money for four years. That's
the only way to get out of it. And then
you just then you just figure out ways around it.

(11:55):
The good thing about this is what this is the
advantage NFL has over base and basketball a Weakers Players Union.
First of all, you win negotiations. The team controls the player,
not vice versa. You're not getting ten year guaranteed deals.
You're not getting guaranteed money much. And the second thing is,
even if you make the worst deal in league history

(12:16):
Deshaun Watson guaranteed in one year or two years, if
you just hit on a player at the same position
in the draft you can do. If you have like
one or two good drafts and have like nine starters,
you're okay, You're fine. I mean, it really comes down
to if Andrew Berry drafts well the next last year,
this year, or next year, they're fine. It doesn't match

(12:38):
Schader can play, You're out of it.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Which is why I think the Browns maybe this is
the logic because according to what you just said, it
would be the Browns almost half to draft a quarterback
even if they don't love him, but because it's their
only path. The only path for them is a competentur
quarterback that makes no money because every other like the

(13:03):
in the midst of this mess, they didn't make the
playoffs because they had a competent quarterback who made no
money except instead of being a rookie, he was my
age named Joe Flacco, you know what I mean, Like
there was and so that is interesting. I just it.
I assumed this draft was going to go cam Ward
won a dual Carter two because the Browns would be

(13:26):
like man Miles Garrett of dual Carter on the edge.
At least that's set. And then the Giants being the
pivot point, where are they taking Shadoor or not? Because
the other thing for Shador is this, I don't know
how much you've looked at it. If he doesn't go three,

(13:47):
he might not go in the top fifteen. Like they're
the like the Aaron Rodgers year. Yes, like the when
you look at I'm gonna pull it up real quick.
There's just not many. I mean you could say, you
could say, no, the Raiders just traded for Gino.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
They did, but you could draft somebody in sit them
for a year and a half.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
No, that's true. But certainly the Raiders' chances of drafting
a quarterback went way down when they traded for Geno.
And so it's just the I was doing this the
other day. Tennessee won Cleveland, two Giants three all neat quarterbacks.
Then it goes Patriots, Drake Jacksonville, Trevor, Raiders, Geno with

(14:32):
a master risk Jets. The Jets could, but they also
I think the Jets really like the idea of let's,
for the first time in forever have a season where
the where everyone's not like, how good is the quarterback?
What's the quarterback doing? How are we developing the quarterback?
Let Aaron Glenn set things and then go get the quarterback.
Panthers eight. No, Saints are a maybe at nine, but

(14:56):
the Saints just they're tied to car But then Bear,
no Kaleb, Niners, no Brock, Cowboys, Dolphins, Colts. I guess
at fourteen, but it is It is a lot of teams.
And then after the Colts, Falcons, No, Cardinals, Bengals, Seahawks, Bucks, Broncos,

(15:19):
then the Steelers at twenty one. And that might be
why Rogers might like there's you asked me how Rogers
on the show. The one thing I didn't mention that
I do wonder if its a possibility, is if Rogers
is trying to pressure, not pressure, but trying to ensure

(15:40):
the Steelers don't draft a quarterback like what you like.
I don't want to sign with you and then risk
getting benched for the first round quarterback. I want to
see what you do with your first round pick before
I commit to come there. Yeah no, because there is
a scenario where these guys were shit or slips. I
don't silly thing it's going to happen. But if he

(16:01):
gets out of the top three, there's only a few
spots for.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, I mean I think I actually said today. I
think Aaron Rodgers is smart to wait. If Kirk Cousins waits,
he doesn't go to Atlanta, he lands somewhere where he's
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Speaker 2 (17:32):
You know it's I said this the other day.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Most of the good big brands in America, and I'll
name them Yankees, Dodgers, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Duke, North Carolina,
Arizona Basketball, Boston, Celtics, Lakers, if you look Green Bay Packers,

(17:57):
Philadelphia Eagles, San Francisco for nine Ers. If you look
at the biggest brands right now in sports, this is
very rare. Yukon basketball, men's and women's. Almost all of
them are achieving at a high traditional level. The one

(18:17):
that not only isn't but seems to be incredibly delusional
is the Pittsburgh Steelers, who gave Tomlin an extension. They
can't figure out offense. It's a seven year run on
bad quarterback and o line play. And it's one of
the biggest brands in the league. If you go look,
Notre Dame. Football's crushing virtually all the big brands right now. Braves,

(18:42):
Atlanta Braves a big brand in baseball. Cubs have a
very good team. The Pittsburgh Steelers situation to me, I
I cannot believe Steeler fan. If you pulled them, they
get angry if you question where they are in the

(19:05):
ecosystem of the NFL.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't even.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Think if you took out the NFC, I I don't
think they're close to a super Bowl team, not even close.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
All right, So I have two things. One is one
of the saddest things in the last decade that's happened
to the Dallas Cowboys is their fall from grace to
where you forgot them in the brands, the big brands,
I didn't even mention them, but they would be the
other team that is not holding up there in but
their fans when pulled ignot say yes, I'm going to

(19:41):
I'm going to pitch you a name of the next time.
I don't The next time you want to talk Steelers
on the show, if you want a Steelers guest. I
you know I the I introduced you and the great
Danny Parkins. I'm going to pitch you another name, which
is Andrew Philippony. I've heard the name. So he does

(20:01):
afternoons on the fan in Pittsburgh and has been four years.
Was four years the only Mike Tomlin skeptic where he was.
He was the guy, the unpopular local radio host who
was like, hey, where are the playoff wins? Like why

(20:22):
are we why is everyone okay with nine wins or
ten wins when we all know we can't win a
playoff game. And now, maybe partially to his doing, or
partially because it has been proven out so much, I
think that side of the coin is gaining some momentum,

(20:45):
but it was highly unpopular, like and you know local radio.
There is nothing harder than being like, hey, the local
team that everyone loves me talking about the most, they're
not that good when people think they're good. If they're
a ten variable team, then it's easy to be like
fire everyone they suck. But when everyone loves them and

(21:06):
they're always good ish, it's hard to be like, why
is this okay? And he has been banging this drum
for four years that Tomlin might be a good coach,
but what's best for the Steelers is to turn the page, yes,
and to find someone who understands modern offense. And what's

(21:27):
good for Tomlin is to try to get the set
up Jim Harbaugh got, which is good young quarterback that
can take care of the offense and I can focus
on the defense. And so, yeah, you and him would
agree on the Steelers. I'm telling you that right now. Yeah,
it is.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
It is interesting that you're right. Cowboys and Steelers are
the two brands that you look at and go pooh.
But Cowboy fans have been pulled in recent years and
asked about the organization and summarily it is a complete
agreement within it. Yes, they're like Jerry's becoming old Al Davis.

(22:04):
Our drafts are bad. We overpay for average players. We
don't know what we're doing. By the way, you you
you were one of the first people. Uh And it
took some courage because four years ago this was not popular.
You were one of the first people to just bail
on Dak Prescott. I remember it well, and I think
you liked him less than I did. I loved his

(22:25):
in tangibles. I loved his EQ, his IQ good guy.
I always gave him credit for the dysfunction of the
team and kind of holding it together during some cultural changes.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Credit for that.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, but you were one of the first people that
just said, I'm watching the games, he's.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Not very good. And it's been it's been tough for
me because I it's been a bit of a roller
coaster with me, because I also our the first year
we had the TV show was coming all of his
rookie season, and I was adamant during his rookie season

(23:05):
that I thought he if he wasn't a rookie, I said,
he would have gotten real MVP consideration. Yeah, team was
thirteen and three at like twenty three touchdowns, four picks
or something. And then he also played great in that
playoff game against the Packers Aaron Rodgers. That was kind
of Aaron Rodgers last great playoff moment was the pass

(23:27):
down the sideline to the tight end I don't remember
in that great win against the Cowboys. So I was
high on him initially. My problem for Dak and the
Cowboys is not It's not really even an indictment on
Deck because I do think he is good. I just

(23:49):
think that and you've heard me say this one hundred times.
The worst thing you can do in the NFL is
pay a good quarterback like he is great money, great quarterback.
And it is also, by the way, why I think
the Niners would be out of their mind to pay

(24:10):
party right now. And it also this idea that the
Niners are obligated to guy. In across industries, but certainly
in pro sports, guys typically don't get paid early off
their worst year. You can get paid off your worst

(24:31):
year if you're a true free agent's like, ah, he
is a body of works, he's had a down year
and we want to keep him. Or you can get
paid early off an awesome year. It's very rare that
you can have. You and the team can have the
worst year that you or the team has had since
you've been there, and that's when they're like, yep, we're

(24:52):
gonna ten x your salary. That's not how thing teams
typically do it. And so I don't no one is.
It's properly explained to me, and it seems like they're
going to. I just think it's a mistaken Here's why
the Niners wouldn't wait go ahead.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
There is a certain guilt factor. Let's say here at
the Volume, we hired an intern he ended up being
really effective, and then after his two year internship was over,
we'd never paid him or you know, just giving him
a swag. He wanted his own show, and he said,
but I want two hundred and fifty thousand, And I'd say,

(25:30):
I'll give you eighty thousand, but I'm not going to
give it. I as a business guy, would say, oh,
we'll see you. Somebody else can pay for that. But
I do think there's a lot of people that would
be like, well, it was two years he was free, I'm.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Going to pay him.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
And I look at it and go, No, relative to
your position and other people at the Volume, I'm not
going to pay you. I'm not going to pay you
more than like. So my take is sometimes sports is cruel.
It is cruel that brought pretty, but he's also benefited
from Trent Williams, Christian McCaffrey, Kyle Shanahan, George Kittle, Juwan Jennings,
and a division which has been in flux the last

(26:06):
several years.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
So a couple things ay on the Under that scenario,
I would probably tell you, Colin Coward, pay the fucking
kid and just do it out of your pocket. There's
no salary cap. But if it was like, hey, there's
a there's a podcast salary cap, and if we pay you,
we're gonna have to get rid of someone else or
not keep them that different story. That's first thing. Second

(26:30):
things this I would not. It's not that I wouldn't
offer Brock anything right right right. I would say, hey, man,
if you are really worried about security and you haven't
made real money, I will right now sign you to

(26:54):
the deal Daniel Jones signed. We'll sign it. I'll offer
you that, totally agree that deal right now. And even
if you don't play great, you know what, call it
back pay because you play. You earned that already with
the Super Bowl appearance. But if you want something close

(27:17):
to the deal Dak Prescott sign, I'm drafting a quarterback.
And and by the way, I'm gonna let you well,
what I was going to say is, let's let you
play this year and go show it to me, prove
it to me, because I'm not paying you off this
bad year. I'm just not like, so I wouldn't. It's
not that I would play a hardball to would degree

(27:39):
of like you're under contract, you have no contract offer
from me. I wouldn't do that, but I would not
pay in all business, but sports in particular. The way
it almost always works is this. It is the earlier

(28:01):
you get paid, the less money you receive because you
are trading high high end financial upside for the safety
of shit. There's injuries and bad things happen. Whatever it is.
The way to make the most money is to let

(28:22):
contracts expire, you know what I mean, and then see
what the market has to offer. But that's also the
way to sometimes make no money because shit goes bad.
So I am if I am a team and I
am paying you early, what I am getting back is

(28:43):
a deal, a bargain, and what you are getting into
the security. The only guys who get paid they get
to double dip where it's like, I want to be
paid early and make the most money. Are the elite
of the elite. Yeah, and party's not that so like

(29:03):
justin Jefferson gets to three years into his deal, be like,
I want to be paid the first day possible and
the most money at the position ever and Mahomes and
Mahomes didn't take the most money ever, but he took
such a huge, long deal as early as possible. Josh
Allen Tua, on the other hand, the team was like,

(29:26):
we're gonna wait another year. And then he went out
and had his best year and they paid him. And
I think that was a mistake. But they didn't pay
him as early as they could have. They made him
wait that fourth year, and so I just don't know
why what the argument against telling party play out your

(29:46):
fourth year. Let's see how it goes. And worst case
scenario for you kid, we either hit you with a
one year, forty five million dollar franchise tag or he
hit the open market. The only way you are not
going to be crazy rich is if you know you
have a handous year this year. You don't think you

(30:09):
will so or take some security. But this notion that
he's going to get the Joe Burrow deal, I just
think would be franchise mismanagement.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
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(30:43):
a legend in a bottle today.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
So it was funny today.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
About once a month I get Jmack worked out, because
when you work with somebody for three hours, you're bound
to sometimes.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Get people worked out. And it's usually on stuff that's just.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Generational, like I'm older and I you know, and I
see the world one way and he's a former blogger
that sees at another. So he got worked up today
about what I didn't see this. Yeah, so this is
the one that I was going to ask you on
the show, and I thought, now, I'm gonna save this
for the podcast.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Okay, So I.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Said, you know, some things you got to keep to yourself.
You just don't say out loud, or if you do
say him out loud, honey, how do I look in
this dress? The answer can only be one thing. So
Pooka nakup is twenty three had some injuries and he said, yesterday,
you know I'm going to retire at thirty. And I said,

(31:35):
don't say that, because I have more contacts in the
NFL than any league by far. They do not care
about your work life balance, and by next year the
Rams will be drafting a number one receiver. They don't care,
they don't want to hear it. It also introduces questions

(31:56):
that you don't need. Let's say he has a bad year, Oh,
well you're not really committed. Well, he's going to retire anyway.
I mean, he's already talking retirement. It's like Brett Favre
in twenty twenty three set it out loud, I'm ninety
percent retired. He's never player. Yeah, Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, by
the way, if he set it out out in twenty
twenty three, in twenty twenty one, he was thinking it

(32:17):
or telling people privately.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
So my and Jmack didn't like this, And I said,
j Mack, what was his take that there was no
harm in it? Why not?

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Just He's like, well, what what I mean? By the way,
are you are you begrudging a guy for putting his
money away? And I said, do you think Fox tells
me everything in negotiations and I tell them everything. Well,
that meaning is I don't think.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
You would begrudge anyone for retiring at thirty. I think
you're saying just don't let them know exactly your plan. Okay,
I'll give you one. I'll give you one.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Trevor Lawrence said, I'm not defined by a football and
that comment defined him is.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
What it has certainly followed him.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
It's you're not going to be Tom, You're not gonna
be Peyton, You're not gonna be Mahomes. We need it
to kind of define you and be obsessed.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Well, listen, it's it's maybe it's said statement of the media.
Maybe it shouldn't be this way, but sometimes those throwaway
comments I Cam Newton. Peter King said that he was like,
I want to be what what? An entertainer and an
icon and it's still like I still remember it. It's

(33:27):
still kind of hung around him, even as great as
he was at his peak. You mentioned that the Andrew
Luck thing, it certainly is not gone away. I think
that he's young enough Hookah is thirty, is far enough
away that I don't think it is a huge deal.

(33:48):
But do I agree with you that there is very
little benefit to him for saying that. I don't see
the benefit. I don't see what he gains from saying that. No,
that's certainly I don't I does it change how I
don't know how much it impacts what the RAMS think
of him, because he's that still is the window of

(34:12):
his full second contract. But yeah, I in general, I
do think that we are in an oversharing era, and
I'm certain listen, I'm part of that too. I I uh,
took a screenshot of a text message my wife sent
me making fun of me, and tweeted it. That didn't

(34:32):
go over great. I did that yesterday and now I'm
talking about it. It didn't go over great. That probably also
won't go over great. So like, sometimes I can be
an oversharer, but I am in the sharing business like
my my I guess defense is I talked for a living.
I create content for a living. Sometimes you're gonna get
out over your skis a bit. But that's really interesting

(34:53):
that the that you think it's a big deal for
the Rams. I think it's a I don't think it's
I ideal, but I don't know, I think it's a
huge deal.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Well, I think your point is also true is that
if you're trading for him in four years or three years,
it's like, guys.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
That's a different story, you know what I mean? And
I also do agree. I've heard from enough NFL players
that once you start thinking about retirement it is Some
would say, well, then, Nick, are you concerned about Kelsey
this season? I would argue that for guys who are

(35:34):
at an age where you expect them to retire, I
think you get because his brother did it too. In
this regard, it was like, oh, is Jason going to
come back? Jason came back for one more year and
then was done. And so I think when you're talking
about Aaron, I think the trouble for Aaron is Aaron

(35:55):
is you said twenty three, but yees so in the
summer of twenty three, or he says I'm ninety soon retired,
then he pops his achilles, then he plays the season,
and now we're going for a third year post potential retirement.
And by the way, I think one of the you
you accidentally said Farv, and I thought you said the

(36:17):
right name but the wrong year, because Farv did the
same fucking thing. Farv was like, am I coming back?
And I not? And did that three years in Green
Bay and then played three more years. Yeah, he played
one with the Jets and two with the Vikings. I mean,
think about this, think about early comments. Have any worked
in your favor. Trevor Lawrence big Ben talked about retirement early,

(36:40):
Aaron Rodgers, I mean, just Cam Newton.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Think about the retirement talk or the not all in
talk that has ever benefited an athlete, Like it's ever
watched the show Survivor Who Unravels First. I miss my family,
I miss my bed, I miss my friend. I mean
they always unrouted. It's like, Okay, we know it's not

(37:05):
easy pro football. Stay focused off season, go to turks
and kkos.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
In season. Oh, you're going to be in pain and
you have to play through it. Hold on, can I
tell you a totally unrelated thing, Not totally unrelated, it's related,
but it's different. So I had no This is so funny.
I'm so excited to tell you this because I had
no recollection that this happened. But in the lead up

(37:32):
to the twenty seventeen draft. Okay, so this is four
months before First Things First launches. I'm still out in
La Chris Carter and I filled in for you one
day and one of the guests we had was potential

(37:54):
first round pick Patrick Mahomes. Again, I had no memory
that this took place. It was sent to me a
week ago by someone close to Patrick and was like, yo,
he kind of nailed this. And I asked, Patrick, if
everything goes perfectly, where are you in ten years. He

(38:18):
has not been drafted yet, he's not a chief, you
know what I mean. And he's like, okay, He's like,
if everything goes perfectly, He's like, I'm married, i have
a couple of kids, i have a couple of super
Bowl championships, and I'm one of the best quarterbacks in
the league. He said that, yeah, and by the way,

(38:42):
he undershot the amount of kids and Super bowls by
one each, and like he set the sites as high
as they possibly could. But he had a plan and
I didn't know at the time. He was dating his
high school sweetheart, so he also knew who he wanted
to marry. He's like, I want to marry this girl.
I want to have a family with her, and while

(39:02):
I'm doing it, I want to win these championships. And
so he was not, you know, famous enough of a
prospect to where that you know, got an ayttraction whatever.
But I sent it. I sent it to him after
it was sent to me, like, hey, man, sold yourself short.
But this is pretty fucking unbelievable. You you said your

(39:22):
goal perfect world. Ten years in he saw it. He
was like married, family, guy, championships and eight years in
he's fifty percent higher in all categories than his perfect world.
But he's vision was exactly on. And I do think that.

(39:43):
I think sometimes it can be crippling for guys, but
I'll take you know, sorry to turn this into Mahomes
and the Lebron, but I think the guys who walk
into the league and you know what was Lebron's goal,
anything short of being the greatest player ever he was
going to feel he came up short, and you know
what I mean, and everything he did was on that route.

(40:04):
I don't think Patrick thought initially, oh, I'm going to
be in the goat conversation, But after two years of playing,
when he has one League MVP and one Super Bowl,
he immediately said, basically, man, Tom's got seven like I
have it. I now know where I'm going.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
I think about think about this. You can talk yourself
into being sick. We know that, we know psychologically people
can talk themselves into being sick.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
And it seems like they can talk themselves out of it.
Have you ever had a thing I don't. Again, I
don't know the science on this. I apologize, but I
have had multiple times in my life where something is
going on, either work wise or whatever where I like,
literally can't get sick right now like I had, but
the moment that ends, where it's like okay, whether it's

(40:58):
the NFL playoffs or you know, when I was planning
for me and my wife's wedding slash valor noule whatever,
once that ends, I immediately get really sick and it's like, oh,
I was sick two weeks ago, but my body held
it off almost like like not now, but then allowed
for it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
How about when people are on their deathbed and you know,
you see these couples married for sixty two years, one
dies and one follows.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Suit three days later.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Like there is a spiritual component to this where you
can talk here, you can manifest stuff you. I mean,
there's a reason there's that saying is that you can
talk yourself in and out of stuff very quickly. And
I think a lot of it's like even body language.
How do you sell yourself if I remember, I remember,
I'll give you a story, I personalize it for a second.
So when I went to interview for the job at ESPN.

(41:47):
I interviewed in Houston at the Super Bowl with John Walsh,
who's one of the gurus of Bengalies, older gentleman, and
he was and I was. I kind of knew he
was a New Yorker, very well read, very earn a guy.
So I bought a New Yorker magazine flying from Portland
and I read it front to back. And so when

(42:08):
we sat down, I pulled out my bag and he
saw the New Yorker. He goes, oh, you read the
New Yorker. I said, oh, absolutely, big subscriber, and I
had a couple of articles. It was a good I
still subscribe to it, by the way, but it was
there was a couple.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Of good articles in there. But I knew.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
That he I had heard that ESPN would interview you
and they would test your sports knowledge. So I memorized
the Chicago White Sox bullpen and so I had the
White Sox well because they weren't they weren't great, okay,
And so I said during the interview, I said, listen, John,

(42:49):
you guys don't do radio particularly well. And I said, listen,
don't get me wrong, I can tell you who the
White Sox bullpen is boom boom boom, boom boom. You'll
never hear me say it on the air, and it
totally it kind of.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
De armed him.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
He was like, Jesus, I don't even know the White
Sox bull pay. He was a baseball guy. And so
I said, yeah, I mean I can tell you the
White Sox bullpens boom boom boom left you right, he
left you right, he left you righty. I would never
say that on the air. It's terrible radio. And I
described it. And so I basically talked myself in to
winning this interview, and I almost planned it. And the

(43:30):
point was, after I said that I knew I had
the job, I was so confident. It was like I
was literally like, oh, this is or eight minutes in,
I've already won the job. So the point being is
I psychologically I knew if I could do the New
Yorker and the White Sox Bullpen, I would get the job.

(43:50):
Where I wouldn't get it if he didn't think I
was well read or I didn't really know, you know,
front and back page of the sports section.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
So my point is, you can a lot in your life.
Yes you can kind yes, and so can I tell
my version of that story? Sure? This is stuff like
because I've never heard I've heard, you know, sometimes you
and I talk and we kind of I don't want
to say, get into reruns, but we tell each other
things that we know about each other. I've never heard that,

(44:19):
but I have eight. Okay, So I am doing a
radio in Kansas City and find out there is the
morning show open in Houston. And at the time, I
have one career goal, and it is to one day

(44:39):
replace you. It's the only it is, truly, it was
truly my goal was one day I'm going to host
noon to three Eastern on ESPN Radio. That was it
was these slot. It was the slot I'd listened to
you in forever. And I knew I couldn't. I didn't
even really want to go to Houston, but I knew

(45:00):
I couldn't get there from Kansas City, like you know
what I mean. I needed to go to a bigger market.
You got there from Portland. But that's that's tricky. And
so but I know two things. I know One, the
guy is going to be worried that I'm a little young.
The PD you know what I mean, because I was

(45:22):
this is twenty twelve, so I'm twenty seven. And the
guy whose job I would be replacing, the guy who
was doing it is Mark Vandermere, who did this day
is the Voice of the Texans, so you know, in
his forties at the time, grown man. He's leaving just
because the Voice of the Houston Texans is now they're
starting their own radio network and it's a full time gig.

(45:45):
And so I'm like, he's going to be worried. I'm
too young, and he's going to be worried, like any
local radio guy is. It's a call in show that
I'm going to get jumped with. Well you remember the
love You Blue oilers, and I'm going to be like,
who are they? And They're going to be like, oh,
this fraud is not from here, doesn't know stuff. And
so I was like, Okay. On the initial phone call,

(46:07):
I mentioned out of nowhere seemingly, but it was strategic.
I was like, I was like, and I also want
to tell you something about me. I was like, it's
a little weird because you know, I'm only twenty seven.
I was like, but I have a thirteen year old son,
and you know, a first grade daughter, and you know,
I've been married for some years, and so you know,

(46:28):
my family would be coming with me to Houston. And
he was like, you have an older son and daughter,
and I'm like, yeah, you know, you know it told
him story of my family. But I knew that immediately
would trump the is this some young kid that's gonna
get whatever. So that was taken care of, and so
then calls me the next day he's like, I want

(46:49):
to fly you in to meet our market manager and
to do a test and meet everyone. Like okay, cool,
that's going to be in three days. So I in
those three days made a Houston Sports by hand color coded,
twenty page encyclopedia that I have to this day as

(47:14):
a PDF, which was five pages on the Rockets, every
first round pick in their history, every playoff series in
their history, their current roster, salary cap, how the player
was acquired, handwritten, Green was money, red was injuries, blue
was age Rockets, Astros, Texans U of h because I

(47:37):
thought in University of Texas. All handwritten, then took it
to Kinko's, had it turned into basically a binder, and
I go to the interview the dinner and we're about
halfway through it and I'm like, hey, I want to
show you something and he's like okay, and I take

(47:58):
it out and I'm like, listen, you haven't said this,
but I know talk radio your concern is that I'm
not from here and that the callers, someone is gonna
call me and they're gonna say something every Hustonian knows about.
I'm not gonna know about it, and I'm gonna be
you know, they're gonna be like, we can't listen to
this guy. He doesn't you know what I mean, know

(48:19):
what Mario Ellie's kiss of death is like, he's not
one of us. I was like, I guarantee you that
won't happen. And if I a because I'll know, I'll
know what I need to know and be if I don't,
I'll tap dance just long enough to find it in
this and show it in my thing. And he looked
at it and he was like, you made this. It's

(48:42):
like yeah, He's like, when like you found out you
were coming here three days ago. I was like, I
don't know. It's taken me about thirty hours in the
last three days, but I made it, and in that
moment I got the job. Yeah, And in that moment
I got the job, and I knew, like I can't.
I'm not going to have another opportunity maybe in the

(49:04):
next year, two or three years to go from Kansas
City to a top five market drive time. If I
ever want to do what I really want to do professionally,
I have to get this job. So I have to
figure out the things the guy wants to hear and
get him there before I even get there. And so
when you're talking about the White Sox, bullpen and the

(49:26):
New Yorker, I'm like, that's just me talking about my
kids and making this encyclopedia. Like you you walked into
that interview with John Walsh. You you were doing local
radio in Portland. You were the best local radio guy
in the Northwest. But the jump from that to you
know what I mean. I'm not saying you wouldn't have

(49:46):
gotten to where you are now, but if you don't
get that job, then it's maybe a five year detour.
Like that's the most important sixty minutes of your professional
life up to that, no question.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
So yeah, I don't and I was going to control it, yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Don't leave that shit to chance.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
So that goes back, Yes, that go yeah, and then
we go back to speak things into existence. So you
before you made that chart, you said to yourself, Okay,
here's what I'm going to do. You've normly spoken into existence.
You created it, and then you delivered on it. So
I think the bigger you know, as we kind of
come full circle on this, is you you have much

(50:27):
more control of your destination and of your destiny that
anybody wants to admit.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Fate.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
I always said this luck is a word used by
average people to validate their mediocrity. Well, my sister's lucky,
and I'm like, I bet if you inspected your sister,
she's got her shit together. Like you know, it's like
people use luck or fate. It's everybody in life controls
their destiny. Like it's one thing if you have a

(50:54):
bad upbringing in at twenty eight, you're still trying to
kind of get above sea level. But by forty four
years old, if you think that makes so, that's sold
another discussion. But I so I think that there's I
think that there are ten percent on each end. I
think there's ten percent might be strong, but they're only

(51:16):
ten percent of the population that no matter how badly
they tried to fuck up their situation.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
They just couldn't. They just that everything comes up them
or they are have such a giant safety net of
everything that they're going to be fine. And I do
think there's ten percent or whatever that it just things have.
No matter how hard they work or all the right
decisions they make, things go against them. I do. I do. Again,

(51:41):
I'm making up the numbers. My point is that I
think there are extremes on both ends. I think most
everyone else, it's a lot of what you make it
out to be. And I the thing you said there
that I think is a really valuable sentiment that barring
true and again I was very blessed you and I

(52:04):
are both children of divorce. But yeah, I had no
real childhood trauma like so I don't again same remove.
I'm not talking about people who dealt with real, real
childhood drama. If you had what I would call a
typical childhood, by the time, certainly by the time you're

(52:27):
old enough to rent a car without having to pay
an extra fee, you got, that can't be what's holding
you back. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like what
the it's at some point like when you are that
I am not very and I'm I try to be
a very empathetic person, but I think sometimes we people

(52:51):
hold themselves back by acting as if well, it's a
you know, things just aren't going to go the way
they should for me because because of you know, my parents,
and again barring the extremes, it's like, hey, like you said,
you're in your mid thirties, like that that is part
of your story, but no longer is your story, you

(53:13):
know what? And so that is the I do agree
with that, and I think I think that people that
are cool with hey, shit wasn't perfect, but I made
the most of it are typically some of the happiest
or most well adjusted, as opposed to people who are
very stuck in.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
This shit that wasn't perfect before. Yeah, no, I tell uh,
I've told my kids this before. Life's about reaction, not action, Like,
like everybody makes mistakes with action, how do you react
to your fuck ups? That's going to go a long
way because you're all gonna step in it. Some people
go hide, some people are it literally haunts them, and
other people are like own it. Wow, got to start over,

(53:53):
Like how you react to others and your own mistakes?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
That will pretty much define you.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
So don't be don't don't be rigid, don't be precious,
don't get down on yourself. Stay optimistic, be a good coworker, lubricate,
don't agitate. Your life will be fine. You know, I
always told my daughter when she was young, I said,
there's only one mistake that statistically can kill you, getting into.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
The wrong car.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
So I always bought my kids cars early used. But
my take is, I trust your judgment. Trust you get
into a car with someone else, Yes, you get into
a car. Yeah, a girl gets into a car with
a guy showing off. That's how you end up in
the obituary section. That's so the again, and then we
can get back to whatever you had planned.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
It's but you and I. That's another so similarity for us.
I we we live in New York, so you know,
the my kids didn't have cars as the my daughter
didn't have a car in high school or when she's
back from college. We live in New York City, but
some of her friends obviously do or they drive. And

(54:59):
I I'm I'm big on I probably spend a irrational
amount on ubers because I'm like, eh, I'd rather just
trust it. And so the the and the only the
only thing that is that I have added to that
is and I'm not I'm drinking wine during this interview.
I'm not a teetotaler at all. And maybe this is

(55:22):
part of my aide showing or whatever it is. When
I was growing up, pill based drugs were not a thing,
you know what I mean. It was like kids smoked weed,
some of the like really like aggressive kids like might
have occasionally tripped on acid, and I'm like, y'all are crazy,
but like nobody like and then maybe the like wildest

(55:45):
kids like oh my god, I heard that guy did
cocaine at a party. Like that was like really out
of the in high school, that was really out of
the main stream. But twenty years later, ton of kids
just like the party drug stuff, the like ecstasy, molly
became very there's a very small barrier for injury where

(56:08):
kids don't look at that as scandalous as I would.
And that shit scared the hell out of me because
I'm like, nah, man, like those That's the other way
that you can basically anything short of, like you said,
get in a terrible car accident or taking a bad drug,
like we can recover from if you like we can
recover from a lot of stuff. You get suspended from school,

(56:29):
we can recover from it. You get you know, with
you you get in a fight and you get picked
up by the cops, they may can spend the night
in jail. We can recover from like normal adolescent bullshit.
We can as a family recover from almost anything. Terrible
car wreck or didn't know what was in that pill.
You can't always recover from. So those are really the

(56:50):
only things as a parent, I really like you keep
you up at night, like there you're wordy of it,
because everything else you feel like, Okay, you know what
I mean, it's it's an ex expensive lesson, or you
know what I mean, like you take a learn from
it or whatever. And so yeah, I'm with you on
that one thousand percent. So I saw something the other day.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
We'll end it on this topic because this will get
us to an hour or a little more. Bill Maher
said something the other day that your personality lead you
into your politics. And this is something I've thought about
for a long time, is that if you were bullied,
you were small, you're a smaller person you were bullied,

(57:38):
You're more likely to be empathetic to people who have
been bullied and people who have been.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Under siege or oppressed.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
And if you're a six or four great looking quarterback
in high school and college, that's kind of arrogant. Noah's
got the pretty girl, You're not going to be as
empathetic over the course of your early life for the
guy that didn't have things go his way. So your
personality and your life experience rants kind of lead you
into your politics, not vice versa. And you know, I
was thinking this, and I don't obsess over stuff like this,

(58:10):
but one of the things that and I look at
it as suffering from I've never done this. So when
I was in Vegas, like when I was a kid,
we were all sports diehards. I collected baseball cards and
NBA cards. I would memorize sports backup baseball cards. We
all did that in our profession at eight twelve thirteen.

(58:34):
But I do remember, I do remember moments in my
life around seventeen eighteen nineteen, first getting to college, that
I would see guys on the college campus, and here's
who I viewed as cool, the guy with the best
looking girlfriend, not the sports nerd. And so in my

(58:59):
life I never thought that there was that much redeemable
value or cool factor in being like the most knowledgeable
sports guy, Like can you ask the cute girl for
a date? Can you socialize? Are you fund at a party?
Are you a good hang? And so I was thinking
about this the other day. Why have I never been

(59:21):
a fan of mid majors in college? Why have I
always been a fan of the big brands? I mean
since I started doing syndicated radio. And there's probably two
or three reasons. One it's smarter business, But part of
me thinks is because I just didn't want to watch
mid major basketball. I wanted to have a social life.

(59:41):
I wanted to have a girlfriend, and I'd watch Duke
in Carolina and Gonzaga and UCLA and Syracuse and Yukon.
I'll let you nerds watch Murray State. And that my
whole theory on college basketball has been based on.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I don't want to put in the work. The reason
why bracket is so good this year because there's no sets. Yeah,
exactly right, exactly right. First of all, So it's my
apathy that let my great bracket. So I agree with
I love everything you're saying. I'll tell you right now,
you better make a handwritten note and sendin edible arrangement

(01:00:20):
to your dear friend Ryan Rossillo after that, because my god,
there is no one that's gonna feel more attacked for
watching meaningless basketball than that guy. There's that was as
entire his entire identity his face around. Did you see

(01:00:41):
magic Calves? And the answer is no, I fucking didn't.
Let's tell you right now. And again, I don't know Ryan,
he's he's no, he's a friend of yours and friend
a lot of my friends. I'm not taking a shot.
I just but it's also that's also you know, but
it is very very good. There there are people that

(01:01:01):
are watching everything, yeah, because it allows for you to,
you know, have a wife and kids and a social life.
So I I think what you were saying in the
beginning is really interesting, which is you wanted to follow

(01:01:22):
what you had to follow and wanted to follow what
you loved. Because here's the other thing what you left
out you I'm certain of it. You watched a lot
of you watched a lot of college football that you
didn't have to for work because you loved it, right,

(01:01:45):
and so but the there are for me, like so
there's this I anything I've always been a big believer
of If you told me this was the Chinese Checkers
World Championship and those are the two best in the world,

(01:02:06):
I'm captivated. If you like, I don't care what the
competition is. If you tell me there are high stakes
and it's the best in the world, I'm in. I
don't even really need to know the rules of the sport.
I'll pick it up. Like I'm into big events with
real steaks, and I'm into the sports that I love.

(01:02:28):
So I can watch almost anything but the So you
and I have a similar I think affinity for current
college basketball, which is I don't love it day to
day during the regular season.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
I mean, team shoot twenty six percent regularly. You can
literally there's four teams in the tournament that can shoot.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
It's not a great product. It's great drama, Yes, it's
not a great product. And so I have never I've never.
And so I was playing in a poker tournament over
the weekend and somebody, oh yeah, somebody was trying to

(01:03:12):
handicap I was in it. There were some professional sports
betters there, and two professional sports betters were arguing about
which side of the game was sharper one of the
second round tournament games and they're like, oh, ask Nick,
you know have NBA the tiebreaker And I just told him.
I'm like, I'm the wrong fucking guy for this one,
Like what do you mean to do this for a living?

(01:03:32):
I was like, I've not talked about either of these
teams once all year. And they're like, you don't have
to watch everything. I'm like, oh no, I have to
watch everything that I talk about. So I watch every
NFL game that there is to watch, and I watch
a ton of the NBA because I love it, And

(01:03:53):
in the tournament, I watched the tournament. But if you're
asking me, am I hanging out at home watching college
basketball regular season? I don't pretend to I don't claim
to the audience. I do the thing. The thing I
have a problem with is folks who are not okay
admitting that and pretend they did. Like nobody, nobody looks

(01:04:16):
at me and they're like, oh, Nick is dialed into
the NHL this year. No, I'm not, and I don't
pretend to be. And so it is really funny that
you that you think this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
My take originated because I looked at guys who want
in Vegas professional sports gamblers. I'm like, overweight, no girlfriends,
so kind of a mess, not cool, and.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
I don't want to do that. So this is what
So this is a first cousin, and then I know
we have to go. So I last week was on
is day before I came on your show because I
flew overnight. I was on a live uh partoker stream
for a high six program in Vegas, and I walked
into Wilde's office that next day. He was like, here's

(01:05:10):
what's great for you about those poker streams. I'm like,
what's that? And he's like against the world. He's like,
you're not that cool, but at that table, you're the
coolest fucking guy around. I've seen these I've seen you.

(01:05:31):
He's like, he's like against he goes at that specific table,
he's like, one guy looks like he didn't even look
in the mirror. Another guy can't even talk to the table.
He's like, you're just hanging out drinking your diamond chainster showing.
He's like, you look really cool. He's like, but I
see you every day. He's like, you're not really cool,

(01:05:51):
but in that environment against those people, he's like, you're
pretty cool. And I'm like, yeah, it's exactly right, like
against the the typical professional people think the professional gambler
life is glamorous and because for Phil Ivy, you know
what I mean, and Nick Shulman and Billy Walters, but

(01:06:13):
for everybody else, it's just grinding out fifty six percent.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Yeah, I always said I knew I knew a guy
Dave Cocaine passed away. He was a very sharp better
and a big baseball better and in Vegas. I didn't
know him well, but I knew Dave, and Dave he
was really really good at what he did, and he
was he was a total grinder, like I mean, he
just But I always theorized if I was going to

(01:06:38):
be a sports gambler, I would be a professional NFL
gambler because you can bet the most and watch the least.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
And I never.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Understood guys who say, I'm going to be a professional
sports gammeler, I'm going to do baseball, and I'm like,
so you're giving up one hundred and fifty days a
year to your wife and good times. Like to me,
I would in the NFL. They give you higher stakes.
I mean, you can bet high whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Yeah, rights, yes, more, I think it's harder to I think.
I think the reason for that is I think it's
harder to beat I think any market.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Also they have they have a bigger well of money.
So if they do get taken, eight million people bet
it and you can get taken for one hundred thousand bucks.
And like when I was in Vegas, they wouldn't allow you.
They stopped letting you bet Ivy League football because the
eight guys that did all one, so they just said
no more betting it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
Yeah, No, there's the it is. So I there is
a whole world, and this is something that I think
is a really fascinating world that people don't totally understand
of how sharp in today's day and age, because gambling

(01:07:56):
now is very different than previously because it's legal basically
everywhere and you don't have to So the life of
the sharp, the true sharp better today is so fascinating
because so much of it is using their reputation as

(01:08:19):
the sharp better with Vegas to move the line. So
let me just give up try to explain to you
on t what I'm talking about. So much of the
life of the true professional gambler today is there is
a basketball game that I love if I could get

(01:08:41):
five points the underdog is I love the underdog at
plus five, but they are currently at plus four and
a half. So I, as a known sharp better, am
going to as me walk in to a big Vegas

(01:09:02):
sports book and bet one hundred thousand dollars if I
can get it on the favorite at minus four and
a half, because they will look at me as a
sharp better that likes the four and a half and say, oh,
line's too low, we have to move it to five.

(01:09:22):
I the sharp better, only ever wanted it at five,
and now I'm going to use all the people I
have betting for me, who are square betters, to hammer
it at five. Like so much of the actual today's
professional gambling is manipulated, line movement is like people moving

(01:09:44):
the line for themselves. It's really for again, I'm not
talking about the people. For the people who just bet
the way you and I do. You know, as an
entertainment thing or fun or whatever, it has no impact whatsoever.
But for the folks who are are betting the highest
of stakes and a half point means the world. They

(01:10:07):
are moving lines betting other sides. It is a fascinating
and to your point, it is a time consuming job.
They you know what I mean, It's like, oh, it
moved here in this place. It's a really fascinating thing
that I don't think it has been. There hasn't been
the right the exact right book or movie or whatever

(01:10:30):
long magazine article written to where people understand what all
goes into it. Now that gambling has changed the way
it's changed, I'm not glowing to write a book, but
I am the guy to watch it happen.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
I'm fascinating. Chad Millman could write the book. And Lem
Banker was a friend of mine Rest in Peace. He
was a sports gambler in Las Vegas, and I became
pretty close with him, and one day I went over
to his house for about I mean literally like four hours.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
And watched he comit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
He laid out he laid out his bets that day
and the numbers and the places he was calling. He
was a really charitable, really neat guy. But you know,
he there's no question that he loved any information he
could get. You know, he just listened. He goes, I'd
been broke, and then I kind of figured.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Out the game.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
And he had no problem going seven and six every weekend.
You know, bet, you know whatever, it is five thousand
dollars a bet and going seven and six and he
just played the numbers and that's five thousand and boom.
I mean, he just did not suffer losses badly. He
just understood, I just need to be fifty seven percent.
And he was the one that sort of showed me

(01:11:37):
that it's a volume play. If you bet consistently the
same amount of money and you can hit fifty seven
percent fifty or going to unbelievable, you're gonna you're gonna
make a bunch of money. And he had bad months
and good months. He went on a bad streak with
me once and then he went on a street where
he was thirteen and one on the air, like literally
thirteen or fourteen games in a row. So yeah, no,

(01:11:58):
you know, I always said one of the reasons I
do sharper square is because I always felt I never
wanted to try to pretend even though I had a
lot of people I knew in odds making. I knew
Roxy Rocksborough at one point, I didn't know him well,
but I knew knew him in Vegas. Is that I
always thought I was better as the mark. And then
the audience like I do sharp and square. I'm I'm

(01:12:19):
the square totally and this year I was really square
on blazing five. But I I think I have kind
of a beat on how to do it. But this year,
by the way, Nick, was the worst year I've ever had,
and I think some of it was moving the kickoff
that offenses. I took underdogs because I've always taken b quarterbacks.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
In point, say you were you you had a bad
year because this was the year of the favorite, and
you like that, don't any right, any any long time
NFL better knows the sharp side usually is the underdog, like,
not always, but usually, And this was the absolute year
of the favorite, which was why our dear friend the

(01:13:02):
squarest roube I know, Danny Parkins H's sixty five percent
the year of the favorite. Anybody is a guy who's
picking favorites every week. The guy can't lose. I can't
he can't live here. Hot red Hot is unbelievable. Guy
could not lose? Makes me say, has he always been
that good at betting Pro football? God? No, the best

(01:13:22):
year of his life by a mile. First year on TV.
Everyone thinks now he's got He's the dude from Uh,
he's al Pacino from Show Me the Money or whatever
that movie is. I give me a break. This guy
is so annoying, so annoying. I'm listen. I love him.

(01:13:43):
He's my best friend. I'm happy for I had no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
I thought he was just a great NFL Better.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Listen, He'll tell you that's the truth, and that I'm
being unfair and that I'm just jealous. I'll let the audience,
you know what, the audience check back in in five
years and see us see if he ever duplicates what
he just did. He had a great year. By the way,
he didn't even create.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
This this mythical championship competition until like week six, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
Like that's the other thing. That's what's such bullshit. It's
not like he was like, you know what, I'm new
to the network. I'm challenging Nick and Colin. He gets
a huge lead on you and me, and then all
of a sudden, he's wearing gold chains and a throne
and calling himself f s One's best handicapper. It's infuriated,
utterly infuriated.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
He makes one good prediction at prediction and the next
week he's opened up a palm reader business on the
climing's third.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
And main Americans get out of here, all right, buddy,
Good to see you, see it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
The volume