June 12, 2025 • 41 mins
Colin Cowherd & Jason Timpf react to the Indiana Pacers beating the Oklahoma City Thunder in Game 3 of the NBA Finals. Colin & Jason give their takes on how Indiana has taken a 2-1 lead and what OKC can do to comeback. Who do they like to win Game 4 and the NBA Finals? They also discuss the Knicks coaching search and potential landing spots for Kevin Durant.
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Speaker 3 (00:47):
All Right, welcome to Hoop tonight here at the volume.
Happy Wednesday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having
a great week well. Coming into the series, we were
hopeful that things would be competitive, that they'd be interesting.
And here we are after three games of the NBA
Five Finals, and the Pacers are up to one two
games away from potentially stealing what would be one of
the craziest NBA championships that I've seen in my time
(01:10):
cover in the NBA. I can think of nobody better
to break this down with. Then Colin Cowhard, who has
been kind enough to give us his time tonight and
join the show. Colin, where is your head at after
three games of the NBA Finals.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, the Pacers, you know, and you and I had
talked about this. The Celtics this year were better on
the road than at home. Denver is the same team.
Oklahoma City is not the same team on the road.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
They're not.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
They're they're bench players. Their rotational players are young. That's
the downside, the youth. They are not the same team
on the road. They're very vulnerable. Tonight they had nineteen turnovers.
They got really sloppy. I didn't think Sga ever got
into a great rhythm. He did a great job coaching
and prodding and poking his team. But my take the
(02:00):
way is like tonight was a game that you know,
in football, there's the old thing about you can steal
yards and field position and over the course of the
game you get better field position.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I thought the.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Pacers between steals blocks they had eleven Between offensive rebounds,
stole about eight to ten points tonight. Just sneaky points,
you know, like one of them is McConnell on the inbounds.
I think from Carusoe steels at play. That's a huge,
huge play, especially when you're the home team in the
(02:32):
crowded ups. And I just thought, over the course of
the game, just eight four or five baskets either denied
or provided sneaky points. And that's kind of the difference
in the game. It was just I mean that game
until the last three minutes, I didn't know it was
gonna win it. It was just a very tight game.
And I think they deserve a lot of credit. I
(02:53):
mean Indiana's bench, Jesus, I mean god, that again bench
at home, bench on the road. Matherin who starts sometimes
for them, Who's that? It reminds me a little bit
of a little Westbrook.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Westbrook was hyper athletic. Maverin was a quarterback and a
hockey player in Canada. Goes to Arizona, as you know,
crushes it. Super athletic, but not as out of control
as Westbrook. Like he's gonna be a he's gonna be
a great player in this league. But I guess that's
my The Pacers just a lot of blocks and steals
and effort points and that's the ballgame.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, you know, I had my eye on Matherin and
McConnell in particular off of the Pacers bench coming into
this series, not because I'm an Arizona fan, although obviously
it's been awesome watching those guys just kill it. I mean,
twenty eight points in an NBA Finals game. That is
like a real feather in the cap for a young
basketball player. And honestly, like when you I've had a
lot of mail back questions and things like that from
(03:54):
fans over the course of the last couple of weeks
who've been asking, like, what's the next step for the Pacers, Like,
where's their next leap? And it's that kid, it's him,
it's him becoming six an All Star level guard.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, and you know I said this, and I don't
know if you and I talked about this. Oklahoma City's
got more depth, but there's this sense that, Okay, Oklahoma
City's talent's here in indiana's his blow And I'm like,
I don't, I don't really buy that.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I think I think McConnell. I think TJ.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
McConnell is a really, really good basketball player. I think Matherin,
who started some games for them this year. He started
he was like their third or fourth leading scorer, he's exploding.
I mean, we all know that Siakam and Halley are great.
Miles Turner's defense in the second half was unbelievable. Like,
I don't think the gap in talent, especially when you
(04:43):
go back home, I don't think it's that. I mean
Obi Toppin his dunk, I put it, put him up
by seven, and then he got a block on the
other end. Like, I think the talent disparity here is inches,
not feet. I think Indiana's got a real team and
they and they have a lot of different players. I mean,
Obi Toppins hyper athletic, Miles Turner's a rim protector. Say
(05:05):
Ockham's got a pretty touch. Hallie's more assistant scoring but
can do both. Nie Smith can hit threes. McConnell's the
spark plug, Matherin's the young, emerging, hyper athletic guy. I mean,
they got a lot of levers to pull. So I
watched this. It's just fun watching this series, and I'm like,
(05:26):
at the end of the game, I'm like, is the
Indiana they have more good players?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I mean, they just pulled a lot of levers tonight.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I do think they're better down the roster in terms
of just the level of like consistency they get from
all of their supporting players. There's like I'm watching the
end of the second quarter and like Ben Shepherd's out
there and Mathern and McConnell and I'm sitting there and
I'm like, this is Carlisle riding his bench and like
what is typically a starting group session. I think where
(05:54):
you see the talent gap between okay See and Indiana
is like just that like top end shot creation, like
when things really bogged down and both defenses are locked in,
Shay is just so much better, like getting to his
spots and finding those shots that he can make. I
think I do think that Oklahoma City at their best,
their ceiling is higher than India, like when they're moving
(06:15):
the ball well and they're knocking down shots. And for
the record, like if you're in a matchup like this
where you're a substantial underdog, you're trying to create variants,
You're trying to create margin and all the stuff you're
talking about, I agree with you. They won this game
in the margins. They won this game forcing turnovers, blocking
shots at the rim and ball pressuring shake Gildess Alexander
(06:37):
so much that he looked exhausted by the end of
the game. And this is all low hanging fruit in
basketball that's available for basically everybody. Anybody can pick up
the ball full court, anybody can be aggressive in rotation
and play passing lanes. There's a certain athletic minimum you
need to have, but anybody's capable of taking advantage of
these margins. And to me, that's been the story of
the Pacers this entire postseason run is they have been
(07:00):
so good on the margins. They're making it so that
the the their variance is much lower than other teams
because they're getting so much that low hanging fruit every
single game.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So Oklahoma City is two and four on the road
in the last three playoff rounds.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So we have found the hole.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
You know, every boxer, every baseball player, even Barry Bonds
when he was on cattle steroids, there's there's a there's
a there's part of the strikest and he can't hit.
Usually for a batter, it's on the hands. And we're
looking for where's the hole in Oklahoma City's game and
it's this young team on the road. There is a
great variance what you get at home and what you
(07:37):
get on the road and we found it, and Indiana
is a tremendously good home team. It just it's it's
I gotta tell you, Miles Turner doesn't get a lot
of love. You know, his his asthetic, he'll hit the
corner of three. But that dude in the second half.
I mean, Homegrown was great early. But Miles is one
(08:00):
of those guys that in the league, everybody knows about
Miles Turner. I mean, if he's on the market, Lakers included,
there'll be multiple Sooners for Miles Turner.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Everybody in the league gets it.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
But on this team, you know, like tonight, we're watching
McConnell and we'ren Halliburt and we're always watching Siakam. I thought,
I thought in the second half, I thought Myles Turner
was huge.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I agree he he The specific dynamic he struggled with
a little bit in this series is Carlisle has him
coming way out to the perimeter to show at the
level of these ball screens and the thunderguards are just
so fast that he's had some trouble containing him there.
But in that second, in that second half, it was
almost like he found his second win to where he
was moving a little better, so he wasn't losing contain
(08:43):
as much. Carlile had him start to be more aggressive
and attack the ball in more of like a blitz too,
which worked. He forced a couple turnovers that way, and
then at the rim. Like Miles, Turner has always been
one of the best like shot blockers in the league.
He always racks up high shot block totals and got
shit at the rim that closed out. He's got crazy
that close out on the three point shot from chet
late that was a big one. The stuff with Matherin
(09:05):
and McConnell I find really fascinating. The reason why I
was keyed in on them to start the series is
when you're playing these young, super athletic teams like Oklahoma City,
the guys that become super important are your athletes, the
guys that have like some sort of physical trait that's
tough to match up with. TJ McConnell is unassuming, but
he is actually one of the very best guards in
(09:25):
the NBA beating people off the dribble. So he's immensely
valuable in this matchup because he can get that first
bit of dribble penetration that breaks down Oklahoma City's defense.
And he's such a good staunch athlete, like in terms
of like his but being a fire hydrant, low center
of gravity guy. He can pressure the ball and pick
up full court. He had three steals on baseline inbounds
(09:46):
in this game. Those were huge sequences in this game.
And then Ben matherin same sort of thing. He is
capable against a very athletic Thunder team of getting to
his spots and rising up and knocking down shots because
he's a supreme att fleet that can handle the ball.
Nemhard is a good ball handler who's not a supreme athlete,
and Nie Smith is an elite athlete who's not a
(10:07):
good ball handler. TJ and Ben are both great athletes
and great ball handlers, and that's made them very valuable
in this matchup. And again like like Ben that like
we're we just saw a young player put up a
massive twenty eight point game in a lust to win
NBA Finals game Like that is a huge moment for
a young player there. And like as far as like
zooming out and looking at the series, like I still
(10:31):
lean Oklahoma City. We have seen before teams like you
know the series. This actually reminds me a lot of
is Cleveland in twenty fifteen versus Golden State, where Golden
State is clearly the better team, but they're young and
they're inexperienced, and it's their first Finals appearance and they
look a little shook from the environment.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, and Lebron goes up to one on them.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Now, obviously Indiana doesn't have the Lebron element, but there
was obviously way less talent down the roster, but Indiana
does have more veteran experience or an older team.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Right, So what.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Happens with Indiana here is they're up to one, but
Golden State was the better team. They came in, won
Game four, then they went home in won Game five,
Then they went back to Cleveland and they won in
Game six. I am going to give Indiana a good
chance to win at least one more home game. So
I do think this has a good chance to go seven.
But I would still make Oklahoma City the favorite at
(11:21):
this point before I kick it to you, just you know,
the Thunder are still from DraftKings minus two thirty to
win the series, and the Thunder are minus six favorites
in game four. Where are you at in the series
moving forward at this point?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Well, you know, Game seven's in Oklahoma City, and they're
really good at home. And again, bench guys rotational guys
are different players at home. I mean the Indiana's bench
in the second quarter to night was insane. I mean
it was literally, I mean I think Carlisle was shook.
I mean it was just like, Wow, that's one of
their best quarter of the playoffs. I think, like I
(12:00):
one of the things that was a little surprising to me.
I thought Oklahoma City looked tired in the fourth.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Oh yeah, and now.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Now the first half it was sixty four to sixty.
I think the pace was in It would totally Indiana's pace.
It slowed down as games can. Is that it situationally
as the possessions get very, very big. But you noticed
it too. I thought, okay, see looked a little gas
in the fourth. They had a bad fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, so that's the advantage of ball pressure. Like there's
been a lot of talk about the coverages. I have
had my concerns with how they've used Turner because I
think Turner's a very good shot blocker, so I want
him at the rim. I don't think he's particularly fast,
so I don't want him on the perimeter. So like
I've wanted him sitting further back. But a lot of
the full court ball pressure stuff has also had some
downsides in that One of the things Oklahoma City will
(12:46):
do is they'll have Hertenstein come out or Check come out,
and they'll screen like almost at half court while Shay's
battling the ball pressure and then he gets ahead of
steam from like sixty feet away from the rim. And
he got a lot of layups early in the game
out of stuff like that. And so there there's a
downside to ball pressure in that you can beat ball
pressure and get dribble penetration. The upside with ball pressure
(13:07):
is in the big picture, which is for forty eight
minutes in front of that crazy home crowd, when you're
facing Nie Smith and Matherin and Nemhart and all these
guys just in your jersey the entire game down the stretch,
you just don't have the legs because beating that ball
pressure just takes it out of your legs.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
And so there's no doubt.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
That like Indiana played the long game tonight in Oklahoma
City controlled at various points, but down the stretch, Shay
had his hands on his knees. He was trying to
grift a little bit more down the stretch looking for
foul calls. Like you can tell he was tired.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know the other thing that you know, this is
just something you don't talk about a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
We don't, analysts don't. But I remember talking to.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Mark Warkin team I covered him at NLB with Jerry Tarkani,
and he was an executive in the league, and he
used to always say the most underappreciated part of those
great Michael Jordan Bulls teams was their length. He was
like Rodman was long, Pippin was wrong, Luke Longley was long.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Everybody but Steve.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Kerr was long like Ron Harper, and he was just
like they just got their hand on the balls. Indiana
is long when toppin' Sayakam Turner, Halliburton's long there tonight,
just to show you their length. Okase had four blocks,
Indiana had eleven. Okaysee had six deals, Indiana had thirteen.
(14:31):
How many balls? How many times in this game did
you see the ball loose around the free throw line?
And it was just a pacer that got their hand
on it and keep when they there are certain TJ.
McConnell's obviously not long, but he's feisty and quick. He
gets his hand and he's fast.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
But dud when they've.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Got Turner and Halliburton and topping. That is that the
length of the Pacers, And I thought it really frustrated.
Okac Chet Holme Green had multiple shots blocked, So we
don't talk a lot about that. Rebounding is a lot
of things beyond length, but length gives you those extra
possessions and touches and disruptions, blocks and steals tonight, I
(15:13):
mean just totally one sided. And I think again that's
stealing points, which I thought the Pacers did.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, Like there was a play where Jadub got a
clean corner catch out of the left corner. He might
remember this one in the in the first half and
or no, it was in the it was in the
second half. It was in the early part of the
second half, and Jay Dub drove Baseline had a dunk,
but Tyres came over and Tyrees has long arms, Like
Tyrese has got length to your point and he.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
In this point guard in the league.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, and he's got reasonable vertical athleticism too, So he
got up and he contested Jadub and Jadab missed the dunk.
He missed the dunk. And there have been a few
plays in this yeries like I actually think Halliburton has
been a very good defensive player in this entire playoff run.
Like he's been sneaky, really good because he's the thing
within this is to Carlisle's that everyone's committed to doing
(16:01):
the job. And then ty Reese like plays hard, like
he's got his limitations. He's not very big and strong
and it kind of looks like a a chicken run
around his head cut off sometimes on defense, but like
he's got the length to be impactful that in that situation.
And yeah, like there was a there was a stretch
there late in the game where Carlisle rides top in
for that exact reason, like him being able to go
over the top of Oklahoma City on offense or meet
(16:24):
somebody at the summit at the rim on the other end,
Like those were that those have been huge parts of
Indiana success throughout this entire postseason run. And again, like
you want to know how you play passing lanes with length,
because all of a sudden it looks open the passer
makes the read and it's not open because you have
the ability to close that ground. The one thing I
will say, and this is one of the reasons why
(16:45):
I still lean towards Oklahoma City to win the series,
there was a stretch in the third quarter where I
thought Oklahoma City really leveraged their athleticism.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, they're a gay third corner team too. They've done
this in the playoffs multiple times.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yes, and like going back, even I thought Game two
felt like the entire night felt like that. I don't
think Indiana can beat Oklahoma City in Oklahoma City in
a must win game because I think they can leverage
their defense and physicality and overall athleticism to the point
that's like almost too much for them to overcome. So
(17:20):
I think Indiana's pathway is they have to win the
two home games. They absolutely can. For the record, I'm
not saying Oklahoma City is like the surefire going to
still win the series. I lean towards Oklahoma City, But
Indiana I think has to win on Friday, and I
think they have to win next week on Thursday. I
think that's their path.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Well, in the first six minutes of the game, Oklahoma
City was very disruptive. The Pacers were frustrated the starters,
they just weren't getting good looks. So I mean Oklahoma
City when they weren't gassed late and they're disruptive, there's
no getting around it. They're just fast and long and
it's almost collegiate like we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
It doesn't look like other defense.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
So you know, I just don't want to fall for
this because I fell for it with Denver and Boston
and I'm like, oh, these are going to be dynasties
and there are holes in Oklahoma City. I mean, they'll
probably lose Jalen Williams. Eventually, they can't pay everybody, and
they're going to pay home Grin because he's just you know,
he's just physically a different There's not a lot of
him out there. They're going to pay SGA and you
(18:22):
know how it works now you can't pay three guys.
You know, Boston's going to go through this. So I
mean it's I know a lot of people look at
Oklahoma City and think, oh boy, this is going to
be something that they're going to be bad for the league.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
And my take is this series is great.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I mean, we have two of the games in this
series have been all Timer's and I also think I
think Indiana is a real team. I mean, I'm watching
matherin tonight and again I think he's got a little
bit of Westbrook, but he's not out of control. He's
a little bit more refined at this age. And he
was a better college player than Westbrook. Again, more defined,
(18:57):
and I think he was the pac twelve player of
the year if I call, well then when he like.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Actually, yeah, he was a great player.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
But my takeaway I watched him and I'm like, oh,
they're gonna be good. Halliburton and him and McConnell and
and sa yah. Come, It's like Indiana's going nowhere. This
I don't know. I said this going back to the
Cleveland series. I love watching the Pacers play. I love
their style, I love their I love Halliburton. I just
(19:26):
there's just there's something about a team. There's a joy
when Indiana plays. They are having a really good time,
and I think it just comes to the TV.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
One hundred percent agree. Like I I understand some of
the uh, the negativity surrounding the finals in the sense
that like it lacks some of that juice for you know,
especially for casual fans.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
To small doesn't have game two games, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
And game two is super boring, like and it like,
and it obviously has not been hitting great TV ratings,
But there is a natural ebb and flow with the
cycle of the NBA as stars a in and out,
and we're definitely in one of those roles right now.
But I do think that the Pacers are providing an
excellent showcase for another up and coming team in the
Eastern Conference. And by the way, the East is pretty
(20:10):
wide open, Like you could argue Indy has every bit
as good a chance to make it back to the
finals next year as Oklahoma City does with how open
things are in the Eastern Conference, right. I love the
point you made about Olahoma City, like it will get tougher, like.
I think Oklahoma City needs to get this one, because
the reality is is that once you start it to
your point, if you pay all three of those guys
max maxes, and by the way, they're not gonna be
regular Maxes. These are gonna be all NBA players, They're
(20:32):
gonna be super mass right, like right, And so once
you pay all those guys, they're gonna basically have to
surround them with a bunch of guys on rookie contracts,
Like I think they're gonna end up using all these
draft pick draft picks. They have to just cycle role
players through, and they're gonna be hunting like three four
year college guys that play for major programs like Kansas
and Villanova that they can trust to come in and
play role player basketball in the end. That's what I
(20:53):
think that they're gonna end up. That's what I think
Sam Prest's gonna end up doing, and so their margin
will get smaller because they won't be surrounded by as
much talent. This is a particularly important series for them
to win.
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Speaker 3 (22:23):
I wanted to move on to the Knicks. So I
see this report this morning and it's from Sham's talking
about how they're just calling up around all these big
shot coaches in the league, Jason Kidd email Udoka, Quinn Snyder,
Chris Finch. What do you make of this bizarre behavior
from the Knicks right now?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I'm not a tinfoil hat guy, but James Dolan, who's
been in a band I'm not sure if he still is,
views himself as an artist and that's why he is.
His His greatest achievement is not the Knicks. I mean
he inherited the cable vision from his dad. Right it's
the Sphere in Vegas, which is a remarkable have you
(23:05):
been there?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I think you've been there.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Six timely love it?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, So it's a remarkable musical engagement achievement all time
in the world. And that's really where his heart is.
Irving Ave's off A former great promoter now I think
he's MGM Management is one of his closest friends. He was,
you know, he was a had a record label. That's who.
That's who James Dolan is. So when he wants to
(23:30):
get a GM, he goes after a star Phil Jackson.
Then he wanted Steve Kerr and Amari stodammeire on bad
Knees out of Phoenix, and Tibbs isn't his kind of guy.
So who does he go after? Jason Kidd, who's a star.
He's interested in Kevin Durant, who's a star. That's who
James Dolan is. He hangs around stars, he loves stars.
(23:52):
He's a creative. This is not a criticism, but I
think he listened to his players grumble. You know, he
sat down with his players and again he relates to
artists and athletes and stars. He just go look at
the history. And when he was doing the Spear for
two years, he was disengaged from the team and they
got very patient and very pragmatic and very basketball. He
(24:14):
and very villanova ish and that's Tibbs. And so you
get rid of Tibbs. It's not the same culture, it's
not the same team. You still have the Villanova guys,
but it won't feel the same. So it just feels
like James and I almost you know, he reminds me
a little bit of Jim Ersay in that Ersay would
(24:37):
rather sit with his guitar and hang out with Dylan
outside of football more than anything else. And I think
James Dolen's a little bit of that. And I think
he's an emotional guy. He's an artist. He relates to
artists and he listens to his stars, and he didn't
have a plan. And I think it's a big, big mistake.
(25:00):
By the way, this is what every Nick fan dreaded,
is that when he came back from the sphere he
would get hands on And there are various reports on
who has their fingerprints on this, but they're not getting
rid of TIBs. He just signed a new deal without Dolan,
you know, acquiescing to a suggestion or making the move himself.
(25:22):
So in the end, this is what the Knicks man this.
This league's crazy owners in the NFL and the NBA.
You know that all owners now Jason are billionaires. It
was ten years ago they weren't they made they were
worth six hundred million or eight hundred million. They wouldn't
blow out staffs, They didn't want to write a forty
six million dollar check. That is a rounding air. And
(25:44):
now of these owners and they're all I see it
in the NFL all the time. Guys will just blow
out staffs, David Tepper write a sixty eighty million dollar check.
The owners didn't want to do that eight ten, twelve
years ago.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
They do now. So I don't know who they're going
to land they.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I mean, they've been turned out by seven coaches, all
the good ones, Finch and Emaio Duka and Jason Kidd,
and they're just getting turned down by everybody.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, matt Ishbia blew out of staff twice within two
years of owning the team.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I uh, you know, it's it's fascinating because, like I
tried to look at it in a very open minded way,
because like I actually do think Jason Kid's a better
coach now than he gets credit for a couple of
years ago. I wasn't super high on him, but he,
just like anybody else, as a competitor, has been doing
it for a while now, and he's gotten pretty good
at it. Like I was looking at the Knicks for
a second, like I agree with you in terms of
(26:35):
the the kind of topsy turvy, unstable nature with which
you look and you portray to people when you fire
your coach in a situation like this, But I also
think Tims left some meat on the bone. With this
next team, I thought they underachieved all season right out
the gates. They underachieved. He brought it all.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
He's not a creative offensively, He's not like the team
got very predictable offensively.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I thought the major issue with this team schematically was spacing,
and it actually impacted both ends of the floor on offense,
the meant what you're mentioning in terms of creative offense,
like his what he did on offense in terms of
his creativity. The spacing for this team was extremely poor,
which made life very difficult, but it had a trickle
down effect in the sense that or spacing also affects
your transition defense, Like if you don't have your guys
(27:18):
situated in proper spaces on the floor, then on missus
and turnovers, you don't have guys in position to be
back in transition defense. And the Pacers annihilated them in
transition and worse than ever in Game six like embarrassing fashion.
In Game six, the Siakam and everyone else was just
getting run out layup after runout, dunk after runout layup.
So like I did think there was like a defensible
(27:40):
case to move on from tips to more of a tactician.
I actually see Jason Kidd as a solid option in
the sense that he was a master of modern four
out spacing with Luca when he was there, which actually
I think is a really natural fit with Brunson, and
Brunson played for Kid before, so there's like some natural
stuff there. And then he did a good job with
(28:01):
transition defense with the MAVs despite them not being super athletics,
so I give him credit for that that would work.
The thing there is it's just unrealistic, and if I'm
Jason Kidd, why would like I don't actually see the
Knicks as that great of a job, like insane New
York pressure. The roster is really good, but it's not amazing.
It's not.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Oh, by the way, Mikhale Bridges wants a new contract.
OG's getting paid, Brunson's getting paid like the Mitchell Robinson.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
These guys are getting paid like that.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Dallas think Lively's not getting paid, Cooper Flag won't get paid.
I don't know if Max Christy doesn't cost much. AD's
getting paid, but you get twenty four and eleven, Like, yeah,
I look at Dallas and I'm like, I get excellence
when they're healthy, and I get an incredible top end
with Lively and Flag. I know what the Knicks are
(28:53):
and there's a ceiling and I see it all the time.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, exactly, Like I don't see it as being the
kind of job that Jason Kidd would be willing to
basically sabotage his situation and force his way there. And
then like the other names I saw, I didn't even
particularly like, like ima Udoka is a motivator, that's like
his primary role, and I don't think that's a specific
need for the Knicks. Like I think the specific thing
than Nick's need is just someone to come in and
(29:18):
take them to the next level in terms of their
offensive organization and their spacing, which will lead to them
having a bunch of additional benefits and transition defense. I
understand there's a hesitancy to call a guy like Mike Malone,
and the reason why is because he has a reputation
for being a hard ass and Tibbs was kind of
a hard ass, and like, I don't think they want
to go down that route again. But there's like hard
(29:38):
ass and then there's TIBs, Like Mike Malone leaned on
his starters, big minutes, but still not even close to
what Tibbs did. And one of the things I'll say
about Mike Malone, he was an excellent defense and spacing coach.
He made a championship defense out of non championship defensive talent,
and they were always consistently one of the best floor
(29:59):
spacing teams the league.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
And they were very good.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And again we can we got to least acknowledge Jokic
was there. So Jokic makes it a lot easier, obviously,
but he specifically was very good at making spacing opportunities
out of non spacers, guys like Aaron Gordon, guys like
Christian Brown, guys like Bruce Brown over the years, guys
like uh Russell Westbrook. Even so like fitting a guy
like Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson, some of these non shooting
(30:22):
types of players, even mckail Bridges, who has struggled a
lot as a shooter in this postseason run. Like, I
actually think Mike Malone is a really good fit for
this next team. I think he's a completely reasonable option
that doesn't involve you doing something insane like calling around
the league. Because here's what gets crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Let's say you.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Call the MAVs, and they're like, okay, sure, let's talk
about Jason Kidd. What are you going to offer us?
We already acknowledged this is not a championship roster. So
you're gonna give up assets for a coach. You need players,
you need talent in there. So like it's specifically defensive
talent your front court. So I don't really understand what
the endgame is here.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, I just I am on the short list of
people that think Dallas is going to be really good,
really fair asked. I think Flag and Lively, are you know,
they're duke guys. They're gonna be quick learners. They play
at the highest level of competition Collegiately, I think One's
gonna be One's twenty one or twenty two. He's gonna
be a rim protector for the next decade. So Cooper
(31:15):
Flag can be out in transition, won't have to worry
about being down low and getting jammed up, which has
always been what Lebron loves. He doesn't want to be
messed up in that junk. He wants to you know,
he wants that ball out and up the court. So
and I just you know, PJ. Washington, Christy if Kyrie
comes back, I'm not sure what they're going to do
with him. A d I would forget the taxes, forget
(31:38):
everything else. I would not lead Dallas. I think Dallas
is a good job. The situation that's fascinating to me
is Houston because I think I think right now san
Antonio is about ready to pop. So I like san
Antonio and they could get y honest and I think, okay,
see a set, and I think Houston's going to be
(32:00):
in that group of three young teams a little lost
because Jalen Green am In, Thompson's excellent, Sengoon's excellent, but
there's just a lot of athleticism that's not very good
in a half court game. And I think I think
Okase has popped. San Antonio is going to pop, And
so if I'm if I'm a dooka, I would consider
(32:25):
the job. I think Houston's one of those that, like
the national media, we hover in, we drop in, we go. Oh,
I got Houston. I didn't like what I saw. I'll
be honest, and I think you can push him around.
I don't think they have a lot of half court
possessions that are just sort of lost. You don't get
good looks. They look a little disorganized. I but but
(32:49):
Jason kidd to me, the next five years in Dallas
are going to be fascinating with just this trajectory that
goes through the roof.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
The roster is weird because it's kind of imbalanced in
the sense that they just have an absurd amount of
front court talent, Like you don't need Revely Gafford, Anthony Davis, PJ. Washington,
and Cooper Flag Like that's five starting caliber players that
all play the four or the five. So like, I
do see an imbalance there, but there's an insane amount
(33:18):
of talent. And I actually go the other way there,
which is like they can afford to go into training
camp and just bring all these guys in and start
playing and basically look around the league and be like,
who's gonna throw us the Godfather offer for PJ. Washington,
for Daniel gafferd Ford, Anthony Davis, Like you could argue
that Ad is gonna be the target that someone goes after,
like because AD's hurt now, so he's got that classic.
(33:41):
Everyone's down on him. They think he's old, they think
he's beat up. AD comes out of training camp looking
like he's in great shape, motivated, kicks everybody's butt. For
a couple of months, he instantly becomes like a dude
you could flip for an enormous mountain of assets. So
I look at Dallas as a very, very healthy situation
moving forward. It's not the same Luka Doncics were right
on the doorstep of the title, but they do have
(34:02):
a lot of big picture potential.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
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Speaker 3 (34:39):
We got a report from SAMs today that Kevin Durant
and his business partner, Brits Climate are kind of canvassing
the league, looking for potential opportunities. The five names that
were thrown out in the shams report for the Houston Rockets,
San Antonio Spurs, the Miami Heat, the Minnesota Timberwolves, and
the New York Knicks. Where did your head go when
(35:01):
you saw that report this morning?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Well, I think he works everywhere. I think there's very
few players that fit everywhere, and KD is one of them.
He doesn't necessarily need to be the soul of the team.
He doesn't need the ball constantly in his hands. You
get great length, a willing defender twenty four, twenty six.
I think KD fits everywhere. You know, if I was
(35:28):
KD i New York, I think he fits New York well.
But Brunson has the ball in his hands. I mean
in his mind, is he thinking Brunson's got some Westbrook
like dribble the air out of the ball. And I'm
sitting in the corner, like I could see him, like
I've been through that. You know, Kyrie, who he played with,
(35:48):
also can be a little bit like that. So I
could see KD just saying, you know, because he's got
the leverage here, I could see him saying, I've kind
of done the ball centric guard thing. I just don't
want it again. Pat Riley and Spolster are very convincing people.
Miami's a great place to play, no state tax. It's
(36:09):
a winter league, a lot of warm weather, Like Miami's
a really attractive place out east.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
But I'm a KD fan.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I think he fits in a lot of places, and
Minnesota he obviously fits. And you know, we've talked about this,
like Lebron in his prime was great, but he had
to be the offensive ecosystem you had to Chris Bosh
had to reduce, you know, got marginalized. Kevin Love can
get marginalized. Guys get away from the rim, go you know,
Kyrie Irving, you can't have the ball that Kevin never
(36:39):
provides that kind of obstacle, Like he just kind of fits.
So I can tell you this if if if you
were a GM and you talk to a coach or players,
a lot of guys would raise their hands and say
get KD. Because I think he loves basketball. He's a
good teammates's got a good set.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
It's a humor.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
He doesn't need to be the media darling. I think
he's really liked and respected in the league.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
One hundred percent agree. I you know, I love the
point you made about his fit, Like he all five
of these teams the basketball makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
There's one.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
The one team that I was like that doesn't make
as much of a sense in terms of the basketball
fit to me was the Spurs because it's like, I
don't love the idea of putting a super thin front
court player that likes the perimeter next to another super
thin front court player that likes the yattern. I wasn't
a huge fan of that one. It also just doesn't
really fit San Antonio's timeline. So the Spurs one was
weird for me. The Heat I liked the fit. I
(37:35):
just don't know why KD would go there because it
just feels like another move to a team that's not
good enough to win the title. Like I'm just not
sure that, Like is Kevin Durant, Tyler Harrow, bam Adebayo,
is that enough to win the title? I don't. I
don't think so much.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
But like when I'm watching that kid, Benedict Mathern, Yeah
Mathern for Indy Tonight. I mean, I'm not trying to
overreact here, but when I'm watching him and I'm.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Like Jesus, he's just a kid, Like he's.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Gonna You're gonna get this two out of three games
next year?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Like this is this?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I mean, by the way, again, I think was he
either third leading scorer on the team or fourth leading
scorer this year like he.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Coming into the uh coming into this series. He was
actually the highest per minute score for the Pacers in
this playoff run because I use in a shorter role,
but his like points per thirty six minutes was the
highest on the team.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, okay, so I watch him and I think, oh,
he's going to become a full time starter and it
will be Siakam, Hallie and Mathern are their three leading scorers.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
So I mean, I just I'm looking.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
At the East and I'm like, I think Indiana is
going to take a leap next year. You know, they'll
play with a finals level confidence. So I just I
don't think. I just I'm not just saying this because
they're up two to one.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I look at Indiana and I'm like, man, that is.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
A team with I mean outside of I mean, sayak
he is what he is. I feel like seventy five
percent of Indiana, all those players will be better next year.
I mean out Sawkhams game is his game.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
They're better than they were last year.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, it's just like all of them.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I was just so impressed with him tonight. So we
can start talking about with Tatum out next year. It's
gonna run through Indy. We've got to be honest about this.
It's gonna run through Indy. They are deep, they're well coached,
most of their players are ascending. The East is running
through Indy.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Yeah, I agree. And I don't see the heat as
like an obvious like, oh, he goes there and he's
all of a sudden the favorite in the Eastern Conference.
I like the Rockets fit. I think it fit. His
skill set is desperately needed as a guy who's a
shot creator shoot from the perimeter. He also brings length
at the rim, which is not like the Rockets are
a big, strong team. They're not like a long arms team.
(39:55):
Like Jabari Smith Junior is like the one guy they
have that offers.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
The Rockets need him, Jason.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I would argue the Rockets need him more than any
other team that he would play for. They need him
their half court offense gets lost a lot.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Yeah, and he would go in there and immediately vault
them into top tier championship contention, so that move makes
some sense. I will say, by far, out of these
five teams, my favorite fit is the Timberwolves. It's a
similar lack of redundancy in the sense that he brings
kind of like exactly what the team doesn't have, which
is a rock solid secondary ball handler next to Ant
who can really generate shots for his team. But they
(40:32):
can surround KD with elite super physical defense, which is
what he hasn't had in these other destinations. And also similarly,
Nas Red not super vertical, Julius Randall not super vertical,
Rudy Gobert is vertical, but like they, Kevin Durant would
be a guy at the four spot, different from Kat
last year, different from Nas who brings real vertical length
(40:54):
to the table where you can imagine Jaden McDaniels, Kevin
Durant and Rudy Gobert on the floor together that front
line and it's like all arms just everywhere, and it
would just be really, really difficult to handle. But it's
gonna be really interesting. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that we
get a pretty quick like a set of action here
in late June where we find out where all these
guys land. But Colin, I sincerely appreciate you taking the
(41:15):
time to join us tonight. It was good to see
you Colin. It was great to see you man, great.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
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Speaker 3 (00:47):
All Right, welcome to Hoop tonight here at the volume.
Happy Wednesday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having
a great week well. Coming into the series, we were
hopeful that things would be competitive, that they'd be interesting.
And here we are after three games of the NBA
Five Finals, and the Pacers are up to one two
games away from potentially stealing what would be one of
the craziest NBA championships that I've seen in my time
(01:10):
cover in the NBA. I can think of nobody better
to break this down with. Then Colin Cowhard, who has
been kind enough to give us his time tonight and
join the show. Colin, where is your head at after
three games of the NBA Finals.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, the Pacers, you know, and you and I had
talked about this. The Celtics this year were better on
the road than at home. Denver is the same team.
Oklahoma City is not the same team on the road.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
They're not.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
They're they're bench players. Their rotational players are young. That's
the downside, the youth. They are not the same team
on the road. They're very vulnerable. Tonight they had nineteen turnovers.
They got really sloppy. I didn't think Sga ever got
into a great rhythm. He did a great job coaching
and prodding and poking his team. But my take the
(02:00):
way is like tonight was a game that you know,
in football, there's the old thing about you can steal
yards and field position and over the course of the
game you get better field position.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I thought the.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Pacers between steals blocks they had eleven Between offensive rebounds,
stole about eight to ten points tonight. Just sneaky points,
you know, like one of them is McConnell on the inbounds.
I think from Carusoe steels at play. That's a huge,
huge play, especially when you're the home team in the
(02:32):
crowded ups. And I just thought, over the course of
the game, just eight four or five baskets either denied
or provided sneaky points. And that's kind of the difference
in the game. It was just I mean that game
until the last three minutes, I didn't know it was
gonna win it. It was just a very tight game.
And I think they deserve a lot of credit. I
(02:53):
mean Indiana's bench, Jesus, I mean god, that again bench
at home, bench on the road. Matherin who starts sometimes
for them, Who's that? It reminds me a little bit
of a little Westbrook.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Westbrook was hyper athletic. Maverin was a quarterback and a
hockey player in Canada. Goes to Arizona, as you know,
crushes it. Super athletic, but not as out of control
as Westbrook. Like he's gonna be a he's gonna be
a great player in this league. But I guess that's
my The Pacers just a lot of blocks and steals
and effort points and that's the ballgame.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, you know, I had my eye on Matherin and
McConnell in particular off of the Pacers bench coming into
this series, not because I'm an Arizona fan, although obviously
it's been awesome watching those guys just kill it. I mean,
twenty eight points in an NBA Finals game. That is
like a real feather in the cap for a young
basketball player. And honestly, like when you I've had a
lot of mail back questions and things like that from
(03:54):
fans over the course of the last couple of weeks
who've been asking, like, what's the next step for the Pacers, Like,
where's their next leap? And it's that kid, it's him,
it's him becoming six an All Star level guard.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, and you know I said this, and I don't
know if you and I talked about this. Oklahoma City's
got more depth, but there's this sense that, Okay, Oklahoma
City's talent's here in indiana's his blow And I'm like,
I don't, I don't really buy that.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I think I think McConnell. I think TJ.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
McConnell is a really, really good basketball player. I think Matherin,
who started some games for them this year. He started
he was like their third or fourth leading scorer, he's exploding.
I mean, we all know that Siakam and Halley are great.
Miles Turner's defense in the second half was unbelievable. Like,
I don't think the gap in talent, especially when you
(04:43):
go back home, I don't think it's that. I mean
Obi Toppin his dunk, I put it, put him up
by seven, and then he got a block on the
other end. Like, I think the talent disparity here is inches,
not feet. I think Indiana's got a real team and
they and they have a lot of different players. I mean,
Obi Toppins hyper athletic, Miles Turner's a rim protector. Say
(05:05):
Ockham's got a pretty touch. Hallie's more assistant scoring but
can do both. Nie Smith can hit threes. McConnell's the
spark plug, Matherin's the young, emerging, hyper athletic guy. I mean,
they got a lot of levers to pull. So I
watched this. It's just fun watching this series, and I'm like,
(05:26):
at the end of the game, I'm like, is the
Indiana they have more good players?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I mean, they just pulled a lot of levers tonight.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I do think they're better down the roster in terms
of just the level of like consistency they get from
all of their supporting players. There's like I'm watching the
end of the second quarter and like Ben Shepherd's out
there and Mathern and McConnell and I'm sitting there and
I'm like, this is Carlisle riding his bench and like
what is typically a starting group session. I think where
(05:54):
you see the talent gap between okay See and Indiana
is like just that like top end shot creation, like
when things really bogged down and both defenses are locked in,
Shay is just so much better, like getting to his
spots and finding those shots that he can make. I
think I do think that Oklahoma City at their best,
their ceiling is higher than India, like when they're moving
(06:15):
the ball well and they're knocking down shots. And for
the record, like if you're in a matchup like this
where you're a substantial underdog, you're trying to create variants,
You're trying to create margin and all the stuff you're
talking about, I agree with you. They won this game
in the margins. They won this game forcing turnovers, blocking
shots at the rim and ball pressuring shake Gildess Alexander
(06:37):
so much that he looked exhausted by the end of
the game. And this is all low hanging fruit in
basketball that's available for basically everybody. Anybody can pick up
the ball full court, anybody can be aggressive in rotation
and play passing lanes. There's a certain athletic minimum you
need to have, but anybody's capable of taking advantage of
these margins. And to me, that's been the story of
the Pacers this entire postseason run is they have been
(07:00):
so good on the margins. They're making it so that
the the their variance is much lower than other teams
because they're getting so much that low hanging fruit every
single game.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So Oklahoma City is two and four on the road
in the last three playoff rounds.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So we have found the hole.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
You know, every boxer, every baseball player, even Barry Bonds
when he was on cattle steroids, there's there's a there's
a there's part of the strikest and he can't hit.
Usually for a batter, it's on the hands. And we're
looking for where's the hole in Oklahoma City's game and
it's this young team on the road. There is a
great variance what you get at home and what you
(07:37):
get on the road and we found it, and Indiana
is a tremendously good home team. It just it's it's
I gotta tell you, Miles Turner doesn't get a lot
of love. You know, his his asthetic, he'll hit the
corner of three. But that dude in the second half.
I mean, Homegrown was great early. But Miles is one
(08:00):
of those guys that in the league, everybody knows about
Miles Turner. I mean, if he's on the market, Lakers included,
there'll be multiple Sooners for Miles Turner.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Everybody in the league gets it.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
But on this team, you know, like tonight, we're watching
McConnell and we'ren Halliburt and we're always watching Siakam. I thought,
I thought in the second half, I thought Myles Turner
was huge.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I agree he he The specific dynamic he struggled with
a little bit in this series is Carlisle has him
coming way out to the perimeter to show at the
level of these ball screens and the thunderguards are just
so fast that he's had some trouble containing him there.
But in that second, in that second half, it was
almost like he found his second win to where he
was moving a little better, so he wasn't losing contain
(08:43):
as much. Carlile had him start to be more aggressive
and attack the ball in more of like a blitz too,
which worked. He forced a couple turnovers that way, and
then at the rim. Like Miles, Turner has always been
one of the best like shot blockers in the league.
He always racks up high shot block totals and got
shit at the rim that closed out. He's got crazy
that close out on the three point shot from chet
late that was a big one. The stuff with Matherin
(09:05):
and McConnell I find really fascinating. The reason why I
was keyed in on them to start the series is
when you're playing these young, super athletic teams like Oklahoma City,
the guys that become super important are your athletes, the
guys that have like some sort of physical trait that's
tough to match up with. TJ McConnell is unassuming, but
he is actually one of the very best guards in
(09:25):
the NBA beating people off the dribble. So he's immensely
valuable in this matchup because he can get that first
bit of dribble penetration that breaks down Oklahoma City's defense.
And he's such a good staunch athlete, like in terms
of like his but being a fire hydrant, low center
of gravity guy. He can pressure the ball and pick
up full court. He had three steals on baseline inbounds
(09:46):
in this game. Those were huge sequences in this game.
And then Ben matherin same sort of thing. He is
capable against a very athletic Thunder team of getting to
his spots and rising up and knocking down shots because
he's a supreme att fleet that can handle the ball.
Nemhard is a good ball handler who's not a supreme athlete,
and Nie Smith is an elite athlete who's not a
(10:07):
good ball handler. TJ and Ben are both great athletes
and great ball handlers, and that's made them very valuable
in this matchup. And again like like Ben that like
we're we just saw a young player put up a
massive twenty eight point game in a lust to win
NBA Finals game Like that is a huge moment for
a young player there. And like as far as like
zooming out and looking at the series, like I still
(10:31):
lean Oklahoma City. We have seen before teams like you
know the series. This actually reminds me a lot of
is Cleveland in twenty fifteen versus Golden State, where Golden
State is clearly the better team, but they're young and
they're inexperienced, and it's their first Finals appearance and they
look a little shook from the environment.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, and Lebron goes up to one on them.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Now, obviously Indiana doesn't have the Lebron element, but there
was obviously way less talent down the roster, but Indiana
does have more veteran experience or an older team.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Right, So what.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Happens with Indiana here is they're up to one, but
Golden State was the better team. They came in, won
Game four, then they went home in won Game five,
Then they went back to Cleveland and they won in
Game six. I am going to give Indiana a good
chance to win at least one more home game. So
I do think this has a good chance to go seven.
But I would still make Oklahoma City the favorite at
(11:21):
this point before I kick it to you, just you know,
the Thunder are still from DraftKings minus two thirty to
win the series, and the Thunder are minus six favorites
in game four. Where are you at in the series
moving forward at this point?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Well, you know, Game seven's in Oklahoma City, and they're
really good at home. And again, bench guys rotational guys
are different players at home. I mean the Indiana's bench
in the second quarter to night was insane. I mean
it was literally, I mean I think Carlisle was shook.
I mean it was just like, Wow, that's one of
their best quarter of the playoffs. I think, like I
(12:00):
one of the things that was a little surprising to me.
I thought Oklahoma City looked tired in the fourth.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Oh yeah, and now.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Now the first half it was sixty four to sixty.
I think the pace was in It would totally Indiana's pace.
It slowed down as games can. Is that it situationally
as the possessions get very, very big. But you noticed
it too. I thought, okay, see looked a little gas
in the fourth. They had a bad fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, so that's the advantage of ball pressure. Like there's
been a lot of talk about the coverages. I have
had my concerns with how they've used Turner because I
think Turner's a very good shot blocker, so I want
him at the rim. I don't think he's particularly fast,
so I don't want him on the perimeter. So like
I've wanted him sitting further back. But a lot of
the full court ball pressure stuff has also had some
downsides in that One of the things Oklahoma City will
(12:46):
do is they'll have Hertenstein come out or Check come out,
and they'll screen like almost at half court while Shay's
battling the ball pressure and then he gets ahead of
steam from like sixty feet away from the rim. And
he got a lot of layups early in the game
out of stuff like that. And so there there's a
downside to ball pressure in that you can beat ball
pressure and get dribble penetration. The upside with ball pressure
(13:07):
is in the big picture, which is for forty eight
minutes in front of that crazy home crowd, when you're
facing Nie Smith and Matherin and Nemhart and all these
guys just in your jersey the entire game down the stretch,
you just don't have the legs because beating that ball
pressure just takes it out of your legs.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
And so there's no doubt.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
That like Indiana played the long game tonight in Oklahoma
City controlled at various points, but down the stretch, Shay
had his hands on his knees. He was trying to
grift a little bit more down the stretch looking for
foul calls. Like you can tell he was tired.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know the other thing that you know, this is
just something you don't talk about a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
We don't, analysts don't. But I remember talking to.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Mark Warkin team I covered him at NLB with Jerry Tarkani,
and he was an executive in the league, and he
used to always say the most underappreciated part of those
great Michael Jordan Bulls teams was their length. He was
like Rodman was long, Pippin was wrong, Luke Longley was long.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Everybody but Steve.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Kerr was long like Ron Harper, and he was just
like they just got their hand on the balls. Indiana
is long when toppin' Sayakam Turner, Halliburton's long there tonight,
just to show you their length. Okase had four blocks,
Indiana had eleven. Okaysee had six deals, Indiana had thirteen.
(14:31):
How many balls? How many times in this game did
you see the ball loose around the free throw line?
And it was just a pacer that got their hand
on it and keep when they there are certain TJ.
McConnell's obviously not long, but he's feisty and quick. He
gets his hand and he's fast.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
But dud when they've.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Got Turner and Halliburton and topping. That is that the
length of the Pacers, And I thought it really frustrated.
Okac Chet Holme Green had multiple shots blocked, So we
don't talk a lot about that. Rebounding is a lot
of things beyond length, but length gives you those extra
possessions and touches and disruptions, blocks and steals tonight, I
(15:13):
mean just totally one sided. And I think again that's
stealing points, which I thought the Pacers did.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, Like there was a play where Jadub got a
clean corner catch out of the left corner. He might
remember this one in the in the first half and
or no, it was in the it was in the
second half. It was in the early part of the
second half, and Jay Dub drove Baseline had a dunk,
but Tyres came over and Tyrees has long arms, Like
Tyrese has got length to your point and he.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
In this point guard in the league.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, and he's got reasonable vertical athleticism too, So he
got up and he contested Jadub and Jadab missed the dunk.
He missed the dunk. And there have been a few
plays in this yeries like I actually think Halliburton has
been a very good defensive player in this entire playoff run.
Like he's been sneaky, really good because he's the thing
within this is to Carlisle's that everyone's committed to doing
(16:01):
the job. And then ty Reese like plays hard, like
he's got his limitations. He's not very big and strong
and it kind of looks like a a chicken run
around his head cut off sometimes on defense, but like
he's got the length to be impactful that in that situation.
And yeah, like there was a there was a stretch
there late in the game where Carlisle rides top in
for that exact reason, like him being able to go
over the top of Oklahoma City on offense or meet
(16:24):
somebody at the summit at the rim on the other end,
Like those were that those have been huge parts of
Indiana success throughout this entire postseason run. And again, like
you want to know how you play passing lanes with length,
because all of a sudden it looks open the passer
makes the read and it's not open because you have
the ability to close that ground. The one thing I
will say, and this is one of the reasons why
(16:45):
I still lean towards Oklahoma City to win the series,
there was a stretch in the third quarter where I
thought Oklahoma City really leveraged their athleticism.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, they're a gay third corner team too. They've done
this in the playoffs multiple times.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yes, and like going back, even I thought Game two
felt like the entire night felt like that. I don't
think Indiana can beat Oklahoma City in Oklahoma City in
a must win game because I think they can leverage
their defense and physicality and overall athleticism to the point
that's like almost too much for them to overcome. So
(17:20):
I think Indiana's pathway is they have to win the
two home games. They absolutely can. For the record, I'm
not saying Oklahoma City is like the surefire going to
still win the series. I lean towards Oklahoma City, But
Indiana I think has to win on Friday, and I
think they have to win next week on Thursday. I
think that's their path.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Well, in the first six minutes of the game, Oklahoma
City was very disruptive. The Pacers were frustrated the starters,
they just weren't getting good looks. So I mean Oklahoma
City when they weren't gassed late and they're disruptive, there's
no getting around it. They're just fast and long and
it's almost collegiate like we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
It doesn't look like other defense.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
So you know, I just don't want to fall for
this because I fell for it with Denver and Boston
and I'm like, oh, these are going to be dynasties
and there are holes in Oklahoma City. I mean, they'll
probably lose Jalen Williams. Eventually, they can't pay everybody, and
they're going to pay home Grin because he's just you know,
he's just physically a different There's not a lot of
him out there. They're going to pay SGA and you
(18:22):
know how it works now you can't pay three guys.
You know, Boston's going to go through this. So I
mean it's I know a lot of people look at
Oklahoma City and think, oh boy, this is going to
be something that they're going to be bad for the league.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
And my take is this series is great.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I mean, we have two of the games in this
series have been all Timer's and I also think I
think Indiana is a real team. I mean, I'm watching
matherin tonight and again I think he's got a little
bit of Westbrook, but he's not out of control. He's
a little bit more refined at this age. And he
was a better college player than Westbrook. Again, more defined,
(18:57):
and I think he was the pac twelve player of
the year if I call, well then when he like.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Actually, yeah, he was a great player.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
But my takeaway I watched him and I'm like, oh,
they're gonna be good. Halliburton and him and McConnell and
and sa yah. Come, It's like Indiana's going nowhere. This
I don't know. I said this going back to the
Cleveland series. I love watching the Pacers play. I love
their style, I love their I love Halliburton. I just
(19:26):
there's just there's something about a team. There's a joy
when Indiana plays. They are having a really good time,
and I think it just comes to the TV.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
One hundred percent agree. Like I I understand some of
the uh, the negativity surrounding the finals in the sense
that like it lacks some of that juice for you know,
especially for casual fans.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
To small doesn't have game two games, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
And game two is super boring, like and it like,
and it obviously has not been hitting great TV ratings,
But there is a natural ebb and flow with the
cycle of the NBA as stars a in and out,
and we're definitely in one of those roles right now.
But I do think that the Pacers are providing an
excellent showcase for another up and coming team in the
Eastern Conference. And by the way, the East is pretty
(20:10):
wide open, Like you could argue Indy has every bit
as good a chance to make it back to the
finals next year as Oklahoma City does with how open
things are in the Eastern Conference, right. I love the
point you made about Olahoma City, like it will get tougher, like.
I think Oklahoma City needs to get this one, because
the reality is is that once you start it to
your point, if you pay all three of those guys
max maxes, and by the way, they're not gonna be
regular Maxes. These are gonna be all NBA players, They're
(20:32):
gonna be super mass right, like right, And so once
you pay all those guys, they're gonna basically have to
surround them with a bunch of guys on rookie contracts,
Like I think they're gonna end up using all these
draft pick draft picks. They have to just cycle role
players through, and they're gonna be hunting like three four
year college guys that play for major programs like Kansas
and Villanova that they can trust to come in and
play role player basketball in the end. That's what I
(20:53):
think that they're gonna end up. That's what I think
Sam Prest's gonna end up doing, and so their margin
will get smaller because they won't be surrounded by as
much talent. This is a particularly important series for them
to win.
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Speaker 3 (22:23):
I wanted to move on to the Knicks. So I
see this report this morning and it's from Sham's talking
about how they're just calling up around all these big
shot coaches in the league, Jason Kidd email Udoka, Quinn Snyder,
Chris Finch. What do you make of this bizarre behavior
from the Knicks right now?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I'm not a tinfoil hat guy, but James Dolan, who's
been in a band I'm not sure if he still is,
views himself as an artist and that's why he is.
His His greatest achievement is not the Knicks. I mean
he inherited the cable vision from his dad. Right it's
the Sphere in Vegas, which is a remarkable have you
(23:05):
been there?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I think you've been there.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Six timely love it?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, So it's a remarkable musical engagement achievement all time
in the world. And that's really where his heart is.
Irving Ave's off A former great promoter now I think
he's MGM Management is one of his closest friends. He was,
you know, he was a had a record label. That's who.
That's who James Dolan is. So when he wants to
(23:30):
get a GM, he goes after a star Phil Jackson.
Then he wanted Steve Kerr and Amari stodammeire on bad
Knees out of Phoenix, and Tibbs isn't his kind of guy.
So who does he go after? Jason Kidd, who's a star.
He's interested in Kevin Durant, who's a star. That's who
James Dolan is. He hangs around stars, he loves stars.
(23:52):
He's a creative. This is not a criticism, but I
think he listened to his players grumble. You know, he
sat down with his players and again he relates to
artists and athletes and stars. He just go look at
the history. And when he was doing the Spear for
two years, he was disengaged from the team and they
got very patient and very pragmatic and very basketball. He
(24:14):
and very villanova ish and that's Tibbs. And so you
get rid of Tibbs. It's not the same culture, it's
not the same team. You still have the Villanova guys,
but it won't feel the same. So it just feels
like James and I almost you know, he reminds me
a little bit of Jim Ersay in that Ersay would
(24:37):
rather sit with his guitar and hang out with Dylan
outside of football more than anything else. And I think
James Dolen's a little bit of that. And I think
he's an emotional guy. He's an artist. He relates to
artists and he listens to his stars, and he didn't
have a plan. And I think it's a big, big mistake.
(25:00):
By the way, this is what every Nick fan dreaded,
is that when he came back from the sphere he
would get hands on And there are various reports on
who has their fingerprints on this, but they're not getting
rid of TIBs. He just signed a new deal without Dolan,
you know, acquiescing to a suggestion or making the move himself.
(25:22):
So in the end, this is what the Knicks man this.
This league's crazy owners in the NFL and the NBA.
You know that all owners now Jason are billionaires. It
was ten years ago they weren't they made they were
worth six hundred million or eight hundred million. They wouldn't
blow out staffs, They didn't want to write a forty
six million dollar check. That is a rounding air. And
(25:44):
now of these owners and they're all I see it
in the NFL all the time. Guys will just blow
out staffs, David Tepper write a sixty eighty million dollar check.
The owners didn't want to do that eight ten, twelve
years ago.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
They do now. So I don't know who they're going
to land they.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I mean, they've been turned out by seven coaches, all
the good ones, Finch and Emaio Duka and Jason Kidd,
and they're just getting turned down by everybody.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, matt Ishbia blew out of staff twice within two
years of owning the team.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I uh, you know, it's it's fascinating because, like I
tried to look at it in a very open minded way,
because like I actually do think Jason Kid's a better
coach now than he gets credit for a couple of
years ago. I wasn't super high on him, but he,
just like anybody else, as a competitor, has been doing
it for a while now, and he's gotten pretty good
at it. Like I was looking at the Knicks for
a second, like I agree with you in terms of
(26:35):
the the kind of topsy turvy, unstable nature with which
you look and you portray to people when you fire
your coach in a situation like this, But I also
think Tims left some meat on the bone. With this
next team, I thought they underachieved all season right out
the gates. They underachieved. He brought it all.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
He's not a creative offensively, He's not like the team
got very predictable offensively.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I thought the major issue with this team schematically was spacing,
and it actually impacted both ends of the floor on offense,
the meant what you're mentioning in terms of creative offense,
like his what he did on offense in terms of
his creativity. The spacing for this team was extremely poor,
which made life very difficult, but it had a trickle
down effect in the sense that or spacing also affects
your transition defense, Like if you don't have your guys
(27:18):
situated in proper spaces on the floor, then on missus
and turnovers, you don't have guys in position to be
back in transition defense. And the Pacers annihilated them in
transition and worse than ever in Game six like embarrassing fashion.
In Game six, the Siakam and everyone else was just
getting run out layup after runout, dunk after runout layup.
So like I did think there was like a defensible
(27:40):
case to move on from tips to more of a tactician.
I actually see Jason Kidd as a solid option in
the sense that he was a master of modern four
out spacing with Luca when he was there, which actually
I think is a really natural fit with Brunson, and
Brunson played for Kid before, so there's like some natural
stuff there. And then he did a good job with
(28:01):
transition defense with the MAVs despite them not being super athletics,
so I give him credit for that that would work.
The thing there is it's just unrealistic, and if I'm
Jason Kidd, why would like I don't actually see the
Knicks as that great of a job, like insane New
York pressure. The roster is really good, but it's not amazing.
It's not.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Oh, by the way, Mikhale Bridges wants a new contract.
OG's getting paid, Brunson's getting paid like the Mitchell Robinson.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
These guys are getting paid like that.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Dallas think Lively's not getting paid, Cooper Flag won't get paid.
I don't know if Max Christy doesn't cost much. AD's
getting paid, but you get twenty four and eleven, Like, yeah,
I look at Dallas and I'm like, I get excellence
when they're healthy, and I get an incredible top end
with Lively and Flag. I know what the Knicks are
(28:53):
and there's a ceiling and I see it all the time.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, exactly, Like I don't see it as being the
kind of job that Jason Kidd would be willing to
basically sabotage his situation and force his way there. And
then like the other names I saw, I didn't even
particularly like, like ima Udoka is a motivator, that's like
his primary role, and I don't think that's a specific
need for the Knicks. Like I think the specific thing
than Nick's need is just someone to come in and
(29:18):
take them to the next level in terms of their
offensive organization and their spacing, which will lead to them
having a bunch of additional benefits and transition defense. I
understand there's a hesitancy to call a guy like Mike Malone,
and the reason why is because he has a reputation
for being a hard ass and Tibbs was kind of
a hard ass, and like, I don't think they want
to go down that route again. But there's like hard
(29:38):
ass and then there's TIBs, Like Mike Malone leaned on
his starters, big minutes, but still not even close to
what Tibbs did. And one of the things I'll say
about Mike Malone, he was an excellent defense and spacing coach.
He made a championship defense out of non championship defensive talent,
and they were always consistently one of the best floor
(29:59):
spacing teams the league.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
And they were very good.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And again we can we got to least acknowledge Jokic
was there. So Jokic makes it a lot easier, obviously,
but he specifically was very good at making spacing opportunities
out of non spacers, guys like Aaron Gordon, guys like
Christian Brown, guys like Bruce Brown over the years, guys
like uh Russell Westbrook. Even so like fitting a guy
like Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson, some of these non shooting
(30:22):
types of players, even mckail Bridges, who has struggled a
lot as a shooter in this postseason run. Like, I
actually think Mike Malone is a really good fit for
this next team. I think he's a completely reasonable option
that doesn't involve you doing something insane like calling around
the league. Because here's what gets crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Let's say you.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Call the MAVs, and they're like, okay, sure, let's talk
about Jason Kidd. What are you going to offer us?
We already acknowledged this is not a championship roster. So
you're gonna give up assets for a coach. You need players,
you need talent in there. So like it's specifically defensive
talent your front court. So I don't really understand what
the endgame is here.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, I just I am on the short list of
people that think Dallas is going to be really good,
really fair asked. I think Flag and Lively, are you know,
they're duke guys. They're gonna be quick learners. They play
at the highest level of competition Collegiately, I think One's
gonna be One's twenty one or twenty two. He's gonna
be a rim protector for the next decade. So Cooper
(31:15):
Flag can be out in transition, won't have to worry
about being down low and getting jammed up, which has
always been what Lebron loves. He doesn't want to be
messed up in that junk. He wants to you know,
he wants that ball out and up the court. So
and I just you know, PJ. Washington, Christy if Kyrie
comes back, I'm not sure what they're going to do
with him. A d I would forget the taxes, forget
(31:38):
everything else. I would not lead Dallas. I think Dallas
is a good job. The situation that's fascinating to me
is Houston because I think I think right now san
Antonio is about ready to pop. So I like san
Antonio and they could get y honest and I think, okay,
see a set, and I think Houston's going to be
(32:00):
in that group of three young teams a little lost
because Jalen Green am In, Thompson's excellent, Sengoon's excellent, but
there's just a lot of athleticism that's not very good
in a half court game. And I think I think
Okase has popped. San Antonio is going to pop, And
so if I'm if I'm a dooka, I would consider
(32:25):
the job. I think Houston's one of those that, like
the national media, we hover in, we drop in, we go. Oh,
I got Houston. I didn't like what I saw. I'll
be honest, and I think you can push him around.
I don't think they have a lot of half court
possessions that are just sort of lost. You don't get
good looks. They look a little disorganized. I but but
(32:49):
Jason kidd to me, the next five years in Dallas
are going to be fascinating with just this trajectory that
goes through the roof.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
The roster is weird because it's kind of imbalanced in
the sense that they just have an absurd amount of
front court talent, Like you don't need Revely Gafford, Anthony Davis, PJ. Washington,
and Cooper Flag Like that's five starting caliber players that
all play the four or the five. So like, I
do see an imbalance there, but there's an insane amount
(33:18):
of talent. And I actually go the other way there,
which is like they can afford to go into training
camp and just bring all these guys in and start
playing and basically look around the league and be like,
who's gonna throw us the Godfather offer for PJ. Washington,
for Daniel gafferd Ford, Anthony Davis, Like you could argue
that Ad is gonna be the target that someone goes after,
like because AD's hurt now, so he's got that classic.
(33:41):
Everyone's down on him. They think he's old, they think
he's beat up. AD comes out of training camp looking
like he's in great shape, motivated, kicks everybody's butt. For
a couple of months, he instantly becomes like a dude
you could flip for an enormous mountain of assets. So
I look at Dallas as a very, very healthy situation
moving forward. It's not the same Luka Doncics were right
on the doorstep of the title, but they do have
(34:02):
a lot of big picture potential.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
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Speaker 3 (34:39):
We got a report from SAMs today that Kevin Durant
and his business partner, Brits Climate are kind of canvassing
the league, looking for potential opportunities. The five names that
were thrown out in the shams report for the Houston Rockets,
San Antonio Spurs, the Miami Heat, the Minnesota Timberwolves, and
the New York Knicks. Where did your head go when
(35:01):
you saw that report this morning?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Well, I think he works everywhere. I think there's very
few players that fit everywhere, and KD is one of them.
He doesn't necessarily need to be the soul of the team.
He doesn't need the ball constantly in his hands. You
get great length, a willing defender twenty four, twenty six.
I think KD fits everywhere. You know, if I was
(35:28):
KD i New York, I think he fits New York well.
But Brunson has the ball in his hands. I mean
in his mind, is he thinking Brunson's got some Westbrook
like dribble the air out of the ball. And I'm
sitting in the corner, like I could see him, like
I've been through that. You know, Kyrie, who he played with,
(35:48):
also can be a little bit like that. So I
could see KD just saying, you know, because he's got
the leverage here, I could see him saying, I've kind
of done the ball centric guard thing. I just don't
want it again. Pat Riley and Spolster are very convincing people.
Miami's a great place to play, no state tax. It's
(36:09):
a winter league, a lot of warm weather, Like Miami's
a really attractive place out east.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
But I'm a KD fan.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I think he fits in a lot of places, and
Minnesota he obviously fits. And you know, we've talked about this,
like Lebron in his prime was great, but he had
to be the offensive ecosystem you had to Chris Bosh
had to reduce, you know, got marginalized. Kevin Love can
get marginalized. Guys get away from the rim, go you know,
Kyrie Irving, you can't have the ball that Kevin never
(36:39):
provides that kind of obstacle, Like he just kind of fits.
So I can tell you this if if if you
were a GM and you talk to a coach or players,
a lot of guys would raise their hands and say
get KD. Because I think he loves basketball. He's a
good teammates's got a good set.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
It's a humor.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
He doesn't need to be the media darling. I think
he's really liked and respected in the league.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
One hundred percent agree. I you know, I love the
point you made about his fit, Like he all five
of these teams the basketball makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
There's one.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
The one team that I was like that doesn't make
as much of a sense in terms of the basketball
fit to me was the Spurs because it's like, I
don't love the idea of putting a super thin front
court player that likes the perimeter next to another super
thin front court player that likes the yattern. I wasn't
a huge fan of that one. It also just doesn't
really fit San Antonio's timeline. So the Spurs one was
weird for me. The Heat I liked the fit. I
(37:35):
just don't know why KD would go there because it
just feels like another move to a team that's not
good enough to win the title. Like I'm just not
sure that, Like is Kevin Durant, Tyler Harrow, bam Adebayo,
is that enough to win the title? I don't. I
don't think so much.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
But like when I'm watching that kid, Benedict Mathern, Yeah
Mathern for Indy Tonight. I mean, I'm not trying to
overreact here, but when I'm watching him and I'm.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Like Jesus, he's just a kid, Like he's.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Gonna You're gonna get this two out of three games
next year?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Like this is this?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I mean, by the way, again, I think was he
either third leading scorer on the team or fourth leading
scorer this year like he.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Coming into the uh coming into this series. He was
actually the highest per minute score for the Pacers in
this playoff run because I use in a shorter role,
but his like points per thirty six minutes was the
highest on the team.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, okay, so I watch him and I think, oh,
he's going to become a full time starter and it
will be Siakam, Hallie and Mathern are their three leading scorers.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
So I mean, I just I'm looking.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
At the East and I'm like, I think Indiana is
going to take a leap next year. You know, they'll
play with a finals level confidence. So I just I
don't think. I just I'm not just saying this because
they're up two to one.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I look at Indiana and I'm like, man, that is.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
A team with I mean outside of I mean, sayak
he is what he is. I feel like seventy five
percent of Indiana, all those players will be better next year.
I mean out Sawkhams game is his game.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
They're better than they were last year.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, it's just like all of them.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I was just so impressed with him tonight. So we
can start talking about with Tatum out next year. It's
gonna run through Indy. We've got to be honest about this.
It's gonna run through Indy. They are deep, they're well coached,
most of their players are ascending. The East is running
through Indy.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Yeah, I agree. And I don't see the heat as
like an obvious like, oh, he goes there and he's
all of a sudden the favorite in the Eastern Conference.
I like the Rockets fit. I think it fit. His
skill set is desperately needed as a guy who's a
shot creator shoot from the perimeter. He also brings length
at the rim, which is not like the Rockets are
a big, strong team. They're not like a long arms team.
(39:55):
Like Jabari Smith Junior is like the one guy they
have that offers.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
The Rockets need him, Jason.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I would argue the Rockets need him more than any
other team that he would play for. They need him
their half court offense gets lost a lot.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Yeah, and he would go in there and immediately vault
them into top tier championship contention, so that move makes
some sense. I will say, by far, out of these
five teams, my favorite fit is the Timberwolves. It's a
similar lack of redundancy in the sense that he brings
kind of like exactly what the team doesn't have, which
is a rock solid secondary ball handler next to Ant
who can really generate shots for his team. But they
(40:32):
can surround KD with elite super physical defense, which is
what he hasn't had in these other destinations. And also similarly,
Nas Red not super vertical, Julius Randall not super vertical,
Rudy Gobert is vertical, but like they, Kevin Durant would
be a guy at the four spot, different from Kat
last year, different from Nas who brings real vertical length
(40:54):
to the table where you can imagine Jaden McDaniels, Kevin
Durant and Rudy Gobert on the floor together that front
line and it's like all arms just everywhere, and it
would just be really, really difficult to handle. But it's
gonna be really interesting. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that we
get a pretty quick like a set of action here
in late June where we find out where all these
guys land. But Colin, I sincerely appreciate you taking the
(41:15):
time to join us tonight. It was good to see
you Colin. It was great to see you man, great.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
To see you buddy the volume. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a moment rate and
review
Host
Colin Cowherd
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