Colin’s top takes of the week!
First he’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out”!
They begin with the NFL and what to expect from a 49ers team that finally hit the reset button after making trades and cutting key players as a contract extension for Brock Purdy looms (2:45).
They discuss why the Bears making several moves to address their offensive line shows that the franchise is getting a much needed change of culture under head coach Ben Johnson and are headed in the right direction (10:30).
Finally, they discuss Jim Harbaugh’s strategy of overdrafting offensive lineman, why the Chiefs struggles on the O-line will cause them to take a step back in 2025, and Colin explains why he LOVES the Najee Harris signing by the Chargers (16:15).
Then, Colin’s joined by legendary sportswriter and New York Times best-selling author Ian O’Conner!
They start with how Rick Pitino was able to take over at St. John’s and turning the program into one of the best in the country, and why he’s one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all-time (31:00).
They pivot to Duke and why the team was able to retain its status as a top college basketball program under Jon Scheyer after legendary coach Mike Krzyzewski retired, and what makes Scheyer such an effective coach (35:30).
Finally, they move to the NBA and discuss why the Knicks were able to build their best team in years but still needing to make moves to get over the hump and win a title, and whether coach Tom Thibodeau can survive an early round playoff exit (39:45).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, it's time for our weekly hour
with John Middlecoff, who will eventually take some time off.
He got married last week. And okay, let's do some NFL.
You know, I had said this last year. I thought
the Niners were going to start regressing. I thought they
(00:22):
should have started the rebuild last year. They did it.
This year. They let Debo and Hufunga and Green Lawn
Shavarious Ward go. They have twelve draft picks, but it's
a week draft, so let's say you hit on six
year draft picks. I thought last year was the first
year in the last several. I just didn't think their
defense was intimidating. I thought when Bosa was off the field,
(00:44):
it was weak. I thought you could kind of manipulate it.
I said this, I think Darnold and the Seahawks have
a chance to be really interesting. Where are you on
the Niners right now? A lot of draft picks. I mean,
they didn't want to let Houfunk Gun Green Law Goals
are excellent instinctive players. I mean, now you're getting to
(01:04):
a point now where you're really crossing your fingers with
Christian McCaffrey and Trent Williams.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Big time. I think every move in a vacuum is
easy to justify, it's not. I mean green Law was
coming off of torn achilles, came back for a half,
he looked like Fred Warner junior, and then couldn't play
the rest of the season. Who funk got acl multiple
injuries to it, like all the all the moves in
a vacuum. Oh, let him go. You're not gonna pay
that much for banks trade this backup running back. He
(01:31):
was gonna make five million dollars on the totality, though,
You go, that's losing a lot of guys, like who
are going to be your backups? I think they would
have somewhat started last year. It's much more difficult, though,
when you have a team coming off being up late
in the Super Bowl against the current dynasty. So you go,
we are right there. All these guys are championship level players.
(01:52):
I think they're big mistake in where they got really
rattled for a long period of time. The Niners, like
fifteen twenty years ago, they could extend the Patrick Willis's,
the Frank Ors, the Vernon Davis's relatively cheap and they
were great at it. Because Parrague Marate their Mundy guy
is elite. He's like Howie Roseman, but he's not a GM.
He just like runs the York's money and he runs
their international soccer team well as the Caps exploded players.
(02:16):
I don't want to say it's the NBA, but they
do have a lot more juice. When Jamar Chase says
I'm not playing for anything less than thirty eight to
forty million dollars, like he's not really bullshit, Like he's
not taking a discount. The top guys have some juice,
but now the middle tier guys, like they would have
laughed at Brandon Auke ten years ago and they would
have won, but they were kind of in no man's land,
and their coach, you know, who has a lot of juice,
(02:36):
didn't want to get rid of their best receiver, and
he took advantage of him, and that really rattled them
because they immediately regretted it. If they could do that
all over again, they would have traded him before the
draft instead. Now they're trying to trade him. He's got
an ACL and like he's untradeable for anything of value,
and they're kind of in a weird spot. But the
elephant in the room is the quarterback. And listen, Mike
Silver has known the Shanahan family for thirty plus years
(02:58):
and he's been reporting like they are telling everyone, take
a deep breath. We're cutting some costs and we got
to kind of recalibrate because I think they saw what
the Rams did these last couple of years. Yes, now
the difference is and look look at what the Bills
did last year. I mean the Bills got rid of
like half their big names. Well, Josh Allen's one of
the greatest talents I've ever seen, and Matt Stafford whall
Older was right there with would be considered Josh Allen
(03:23):
ten years ago. He just played first shitty franchise, Like
that's not Brock Purty and we all know that. Look
at the NFC colin the two best quarterbacks you'd say,
you know, I would say win wise and statistically would
be Jalen and Jared Goff are on loaded rosters offensively,
like we would say, you put either one of those
guys on like the Jags or a bad team, it's
gonna be props. Pretty the same thing. When he's on
(03:43):
a good team, he's proven he canna be a really
good player. But like if you're cutting costs and depending
on some randos. It's just it's a pretty scary I
do think they are gonna low ball Brock party and
they're gonna make this more difficult because they before it
was just like, hey, Trent, what do you want? Which
I know would have a problem with doing that to Trent. Yeah,
but the two were It's like, you're not Jamar Chase
and your team doesn't play like that. It doesn't make
(04:04):
any sense. I get the Cowboys. They throw out to
Ceedee Lamb every other play. Yes, Brandon and I you
had a career year seventy five. But at the end
of the day, they do have a big time coach
at a bad year, but he's proven to be really
good and still a culture. They get Robert solid Back.
I wouldn't count him out yet, but it's gonna be
a lot of new names Colin, and they're gonna be
very dependent on these high They have the eleventh pick,
(04:27):
like you need a Micah Parsons. You need to you know,
look at the Eagles and the Cowboy. When the Cowboys
got Mike O or the Eagles got Davonte Smith. You're
gonna have to nail this well.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
And also there are certain positions in football running back
I think wide receiver, some say cornerback, where you can
come in and make an impact pretty quickly. It's very instinctive.
But where the Niners are drafting offensive line, maybe another
(04:58):
tight end, you know, a play calling linebacker, a crucial
safety in their defense. Those are hard positions to go
college and pro. I mean, if you look at very
few tight ends come into this league, brock Bauers is
a total outlier. Very good tight ends have struggled because
the blocking assignments now are so so difficult compared to college.
(05:21):
So the Niners are asking players from college in the
twelve draft picks to come into positions replace excellent instinctive,
smart veteran players. Forget just making tackles. I mean green
law is, I mean he is. He and Warner are
anchors and communicators, and I think those kind of positions
to replace, I have no problem. You know, it'd be
(05:44):
one thing. If they're replacing you know, one corner one
running back, you get to the offensive line. In Kyle
Shanahan's system, you're lost until Thanksgiving. That's a tough rebuild.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Oh for sure. Same with wide receivers. I mean same
with Listen. Even if they draft defensive lineman with the
eleventh pick, Khalil Mack, who's one of the better players
of his generation. I think at four and a half
sacks his rookie year. Jared Verse last year, who came
on toward the end, wasn't a dominant, dominant force all
season long.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I covered Warren Sap in Tampa. It wasn't until the
end of his first year that he made an impact
here too. He was fantastic. But this league, there are
guys that can make impacts. But I don't see the Niners.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Their schedule sucks, their schedules bad. They have a last
play schedule and they get to draft really high in
every round. I think one of the divisions they play
is the AFC South. I mean, I would say even
before this mass exodus, I still think ten wins is
very very you know, look at what the Rams have
done these last couple of years. I think sometimes when
(06:48):
you are as they say in most you know, world
industries on boarding players. I think McVeigh uses that too,
it takes a little time and then you kind of
catch fire. I mean, I think they were one in
four last year and two and three and six the
year before. Now, you don't want to make a living.
It's you do that ten times. A lot of times
you're gonna end up with seven or eight wins. But
(07:10):
you start a little slow and then you peak. One
thing is very, very key for the forty nine ers.
I'd say two guys. Trent Williams got to be on
the field, and if Christian McCaffrey is just healthy, which
who knows. I mean, he had multiple akilles, he tore
his knee, but he is a major, major wild card
in the NFL, going back to the Panther days. When
he's on the field, he's one of the best players
in the league. When he's off, especially with Kyle, he
(07:32):
kind of derails their operation.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So I thought the team, you can tell who has
the power. In most organizations, McVeigh runs the Rams. I
think Shanahan until recently had power on the draft. Andy
Reid doesn't want it necessarily, Belichick did, Sean Payton does
in Denver. You can tell the moves when coaches are making.
(07:55):
Chicago clearly signaled that Ben Johnson's run the show for
him to replace the entire interior. O line was telling
Ryan Poles, you got your picks stink. And I thought, frankly,
for the Chicago Bears, who I've been saying this for
so many years, they're like, they're just a defensive culture.
(08:17):
For a guy to come in and spend money on
guards and centers, I thought it was a real moment
in the history of the Chicago Bears. I was like, Wow,
this field, I mean, how many years have the Steelers
been hamming egging it on their offensive line? Tomlin runs
the show, I for the first time that I can remember.
(08:37):
I really like the direction where the Bears are going well.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I think sometimes when you get like the whiz kid,
the great offensive coordinator, they just want to score points
and they're thinking quarterback and wide receiver. Ben Johnson's pretty
lucky that his welcome to stardom in the NFL started
with the trenches. I mean, I mean, let's face it,
the Lions really separated themselves with a dominant offensive line,
so they go and trade for a guy. It's crazy.
You and I talk about these young quarterbacks. By that
(09:04):
second year Thanksgiving, it's like you're on the clock, like
your career is in troubles. It's like that now with
free agency, the Rams side Jojah Jackson last year, three years,
fifty one million dollars. Less than a year later, it's
like traded. I mean these teams now, the money and
the cash bonuses. Sealing that not in a million years,
I would say, up till what seven eight years ago,
would have ever happened because no owner, it's like he's
(09:25):
a good player, and it's like, yeah, not a great fit.
Seal you later. So they get a guy that they know,
the Falcon Center is good and you see Andy Reid's
quotes on toon, He's like, he's one of the toughest
guys I've ever We don't want to trade this guy.
We just there's money involved and we can't afford to
keep them lay.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
We had the best year of his career arguably because
he went to left Tackleon was excellent.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
To me. He's like his generation's Logan Mankins. I mean,
just a plug and play guy who could play multiple
positions as a stud. The other thing is when you
have a smaller quarterback. You know, Non Peyton Manning, Tom Brady,
the flat gol that generation and all those guys were huge,
you know, Carson Palmer, Caleb. This generation is a little smaller, well,
Sean Payton dealt with one in that generation, and they
(10:07):
always invested in centers and guards. They had high because
the pressure up the middle it rattles and he can't
see where Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Historically they had
some pretty random guys on some seasons when they had
good teams playing center and guard, they get away with it.
Smaller quarterbacks cannot. It hurts pretty sometimes when they get
in past situations and the garden center gets smoked. He's swimming.
(10:29):
He can handle the outside pressure because he can move around.
Same with Caleb he can move. But up the middle
you are screwed. So they they could have I know
they've invested draft picks and some tackles, but we'll see
how good those guys turn out to be. But they
went all in on the garden center position because I
think with a smaller quarterback it's really really important to
just neutralize. Think how many teams also have a good
(10:52):
interior pass rush now, So yeah, it was hard to
I mean, that was a no brainer. Moved by the Bears,
and Ryan Pole is pretty lucky that this the way
this He kept his job and he's still here and
he gets to be a.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Part of this. Yeah, I mean a couple of years ago,
he whiffed on Villas Jones and I was like, oh dude,
you could have called me.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
And then the Chase played with Rome. I mean, Rome
was a pretty looking back. You should have taken an
offensive lineman.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, but Villas Jones, miss Chase Claypool, miss Roma Danze
not as good as we thought.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So again, I think you and I agree. I think
the Bears are head in the right direction. You just
pointed out something and I've been on this for a
few years that I think there's a duality to all
the owners being billionaires and some being ten, fifteen, twenty billionaires.
Is that number one? The downside is they're more willing
(11:44):
to just fire people quickly. They're more impulsive than they've
ever been when they were all worth six hundred million.
You're you're not just riding a seventeen to twenty five
million dollar check to blow out a staff. You're just
not doing it. Now. These guys will just blow out
a seventy million dollar staff. So who does that hurt?
It hurts a young quarterback who has to have another staff. So,
(12:06):
I mean, Caleb Williams, even though he upgrades staffs. It's
a brand new system. So that's the downside. The upside, though,
is when you make a mistake with personnel like Rams
and Jonah Jackson where it just didn't feel great, you
can just move off it. And so you know this,
you know you can never move off NBA contracts or
(12:28):
baseball contracts. They're so guaranteed. In the NFL. Now, if
you make a mistake, guys just write shacks and go all.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Right, big Jo.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I mean for the Bears to get Drew Dolman and
Joe Toney, Jesus, you have your You're you may not
be Philadelphia or Detroit, but that's a top three interior
O line in the league.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Well, let's you even use I mean, the craziest example
currently is his cousin's example. Now, I know Arthur Blank
is probably I don't know where he ranks, but he's
not near the bottom when it comes to wealth. They're like, well,
you're not gonna us around. We're gonna pay you ten
million for next year. He obviously he's not gonna be
the team next year, and we'll eat it until we
figure this out. But you are gonna capitulate and you're
(13:09):
gonna give us a trade eventually before the season starts.
That never would happen. I thought it was like, no,
no human lives is gonna give him ten million dollars
guaranteed for next year. Cousin's gonna win this. They will
cut him. I thought he'd be cut, you know, Wednesday Thursday.
He's like, no, they just picked it up. But he's
still there and we'll just have a staring contest. It's
that that never would have happened without the influx of cash.
(13:30):
I thought this when some of these deals are I
mean Aaron Banks, the Niners left guard, got, I mean
so much money. Milton Williams, who is obviously a really
talented players he never played more than fifty percent of
the snap for the Eagles, got twenty six million dollars
a year.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I was watching a clip of Jim Harbaugh and I
had just had this discussion with Steve Kime about a
week ago, two weeks ago, and I said, if I
was ever a GM, because he owes jokes. He said,
you're not a talk show host. You want to be
a GM. And I'm like, you know, I like my job,
but I would love to be a GM, you know,
(14:08):
if I would have put thirty years into that instead
of what I'm doing. Who knows, you know, you don't know.
But I told him, I said I would overdraft the
offensive line. And Harbaugh said this, and this is what
Steve and I said. Jim put it more smartly. He said,
there's only one unit in a football field that doesn't
(14:29):
rely on any other unit, yet every other unit relies
on it. And he said, it's offensive line. It makes
your quarterback better, your running back's better, your tight end
doesn't have to block as vigorously, your wide receivers have
more time to get downfield. It keeps your defense off
the field if you have a great offensive line. And
it was one of those things where when you go
(14:50):
back to drafting Joe Ault over a wide receiver, the
Bears went wide receiver and then this year had to
spend a fortune on their offensive line instead of The
Bears probably should have gone O line instead of going
with Romadunze. But it is interesting that the more the NFL,
you know, changes and becomes an offensive league. We pay
(15:11):
so much attention to quarterbacks. But I and I made
this pick the other day. I think the Chiefs are
going to struggle and I don't think they're going to
win their division. I don't think in this draft class
there's a starting left tackle good enough in their division
to block Max Crosby or Khalil Mack or the kid
(15:35):
number fifteen Oklahoma Bito Budido. And it's really interesting I think.
I mean, right now, the three or four teams I
like in the league all have great old lines, all
of them. Philadelphia, Detroit. I thought the Rams finally got
their act together offensive line. I think Buffalo's last year
was better than people thought. I thought Denver's was better
(15:57):
than people thought. I think Kansas City, I think we've
just baked it in.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
John.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
They're not going ten to one in close games next year.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, I would agree there, but their offensive line was
puture this year on the on the edges, and they
were able to well. I mean, they were basically a
sixteen and one team. They threw the last game of
the season. So when it comes to coaching, when it
comes to quarterback play, and most importantly, their defense is
gonna be good. So like part of the reason they
were winn all these games because they could win nineteen
to seventeen. They weren't allowing many points that that is
(16:30):
not going to change. Now the Chargers in the Broncos,
You and I have been saying this. Anyone with common
sense has been saying this. The worst their teams were
gonna be was last season. They're both gonna be better.
So if either Houfunga or Greenlaw play, that defense is
going to be improved in Denver's defense was awesome. When
I saw Dk Metcalf ask for a trade, a lot
of people that covered the NFL were like the Chargers.
(16:52):
It's like, guys, do you think that Jim Harbaugh is
going to trade a top whatever fifty pick and pay
a third contract to this kind of out there wide
receiver though very talented, kind of the poor man's modern
day Torell Owens type. It's different, But I mean I
think physically they have some to Dk Metcalf. Are you
guys nuts? And what does he do? He goes signs
(17:13):
Makai Beckton and he's he's got a huge I see
yesterday he's got a huge smile on his face. Like,
have you guys not followed Jim Harbaugh's career since Stanford?
This they might draft a wide receiver this year in
the third round. I would expect tight end, d lineman
running back like it's Naji Harris. When I was living
in the Bay Area, Naj was his senior year, was
(17:34):
one of the biggest recruits in the country. I think
he was number one recruit. He was number one and
it was committed to go to Alabama, but Jim was
recruiting him very hard. And I saw a clip that
Jim had an Antioch. I think he went to the
homecoming game. He announced their king and queen and so
like that's who he's Listen. I'm not the biggest nause
star running back, first round guy, but he is a solid,
(17:56):
runs down hill, physical guy. Like that's how Jim wants
to play. Jim wants to play a lot like this
version of the Chiefs and clearly Denver. I think Sean
would like to be a little more explosive down the field,
but like that that division is gonna be really physical.
And same thing with the I mean, we know how
Pete Carroll, why did he butt heads with Russell Wilson.
(18:16):
Russell wanted to throw it fifty times a game. Pete
wanted to throw about twenty in play d and run
the ball. So I think this defense is gonna or
this divisions is gonna look a lot like each other. Now,
you know, if for she Rice is healthy, Xavier Worthy
came on. I do think the Chiefs offense could get
more explosive, and I would also guess that they draft
a running back. I think all these teams in this
(18:37):
division could draft running backs. Yes, and if two of
the four of them become stars, whichever ones those guys
go to, like the next Yamier Gibbs or whoever Nick Chubb,
you know, you name it, those second round running backs
hit for one of these teams could be the difference.
If all of a sudden, you tell me Denver it
has a version of Nick Chubb or you know, Alvin
Kamara on their squad, I'd be like, well, why couldn't
(18:57):
they win twelve or thirteen games? Same thing with with Chargers.
And maybe this is the year the Chiefs win. Two
years ago when they won a Super Bowl, I think
they won eleven games. So the difference between eleven and
fifteen is like a couple of missfield goals and a
couple of fumbles go your way.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, the yeah, it's it's I thought. I thought DeVante
Adams was obviously a great move for the Rams. But
I thought, Najie Harris, there were a couple of moves
I loved offensively. I think Deebo Samuel to Cliff Kingsbury
and Jaden is a sensational move for them. At this point,
He'll get tons of looks and by the way, it
(19:33):
will give Cliff another twelve offensive plays because Deebo is
such a unique player. And then I also thought, I thought,
I thought Najie Harris. I'm like, remember a couple of
years ago when Kevin Dohnson wasn't going to start for
the Steelers, McVeagh grams him and he literally is the
highest rated guard in the league. Naj Harris with that
(19:56):
Pittsburgh go line, everybody's like almost as semi. I bust
watch him with hardball, watch him be really effective with hardball.
I think of this all the time. Is I remember
a GM telling this year's ago he said, I used
to love drafting Georgia guys when Mark Rick was there.
(20:16):
Great recruiter, didn't squeeze all the juice out of a
player like you got. You know, these guys had a
lot of upside. Nick Saban squeezes every ounce of talent
out of guys. And one of the things I look
at John, when these offensive coaches like McVeigh will go
and find wide receivers. He looked at DeVante and he
(20:36):
thought Jets staff last year was like third tier. He's like,
DeVante's gonna make eighty catches for us, So I thought, yeah,
I mean so, I do think when you see these
offensive coaches they find some of these defensive cultures and
they find players and go get me that well.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I think you look at the Eagles last year, Makai Beckton.
This year they trade for that former first round pick
from the Doones because now listen, you're not going to
hit on them all, but the power of having good
coordinators and now so many of the offensive ones are
also the head coach. But you see it a lot
when the star offensive line coach or the star defensive
line coach. It's like buying a cheap stock and the
(21:15):
guy a year later turns into a twelve million dollar
player you can't afford, but you bought low like you
profited from it. And I think the best teams always
have that ability. I also think the Washington Commanders with
Debo and with Tunsel touns Old not as much because
he would get paid no matter what you got. Debo's
in a contract years like Debo. If you ever want
to make a even of a two year, forty million
(21:37):
dollar contract, again, you got to slim down and give
us all you got. And I think sometimes getting those
guys motivated is a really big deal for these you know,
it used to be a guy going to their third
contract probably be like thirty four years old. These guys
are a little younger now, you know, they're twenty nine,
thirty years old, sometimes on their third you know, DK Metcalf. Yeah,
they're not as old as you know in previous generation.
(22:00):
And so sometimes these teams now with their cap space,
these free aging classes after like the first ten names,
most of them like the average fans like who's that guy?
You can take advantage of it with traits overpriced guys
on other teams at Adam Peters really did that with
Tunzel and Deebo Samuel a ton of cap space. But
I'm not going to buy all these players and pay
premiums on guys that aren't quite worth it, like the Packers. Listen.
(22:23):
I understand Aaron Banks has been a starter for the
forty nine ers, but to give him that much money
to be your left guard. Fell a little desperate to
me as guard works. We have seen some questionable guard
contracts in recent memory, and I understand offensive linemen more
of a plug and play. It's a lot of money
to pay a guy. You might be able to find
a plug and play starter in like the third round,
and the Packers historically have always been able to do it.
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Speaker 1 (24:08):
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He has New York Times best selling books on Aaron Rodgers,
coach k Derek Jeter, and Bill Belichick. Pretty impressive resume.
He has got a new one coming out with Dan Hurley,
which is fascinating because Hurley and Yukon have had a
spirited and disappointing season, and the book is coming out
(24:28):
in September called Never Stop Life, Leadership and What it
Takes to Be Great, co written with Dan Hurley. I
want to get to that in a second. I want
to start with Rick Patino and Saint John's. So for
the uninitiated, Saint John's is in Queens, one of the
five boroughs used to be in Brooklyn, actually a long
time ago Catholic university between the airports is how I
remember being described to me one time, and it was
(24:52):
in the Big East, which is the greatest basketball conference,
the most personality filled basketball conference at its best in
the history, between players and coaches, and so Louis carnaseca
Ages of Leaves. It's not the same university many people tried.
Then one of the great coaches of all time, Rick
Bettina and New Yorker gets the job. So let's start
(25:13):
with that. I couldn't say the last time Duke and
Saint John's both had a chance to win the title
in the same tournament. So it's a fascinating tournament. But
when Rick took the job, I mean I said this
the other day. You know, his moral compass has sometimes
flipped around, But in terms of basketball iq EQ and
program building.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
He is.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
He is parcels plus Urban Meyer. You know, he is
just one of these guys that can do a Jim Harbaugh.
What is the secret sauce?
Speaker 4 (25:42):
You know?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Rick? What is his secret sauce? What's different between Rick
and so many other coaches that go to these programs?
I own a Saint John's and just make it work quickly.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Great question, And I think, first of all, I think
the two best, which is in the history of the sport,
are John Wooden and Mike Sheryzewsky. So if you look
at their bodies of work, yeah, I think they're the
top two. But I also believe Rick Patino is just
as good as they were. I think that he's as
good as any college basketball coach ever. And it's just
the ferocity with which he gets his kids to play defense.
(26:19):
And it really works at Saint John's, and of course
it worked at Louisville, it worked at Kentucky and to Providence.
But he's such a New Yorker and that is such
a New York style of play on the playgrounds that
it really translates. And this has been a very likable team.
The city has fallen in love with Saint John's. Now,
when I started my career, Saint John's would take the
(26:40):
back page of the tabloids away from the Knicks, and
so it's been a long time since that was possible.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Now.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Of course, the tabloids aren't what they used to be
in New York or newspapers anywhere, of course, but Saint
John's is now a team that the city has embraced.
And Patino that style of played. He did it even
with the mix, pressing, defense, attention to detail, just playing
with that ferocity. And yeah, I don't know if I've
(27:08):
ever seen a coach get his kids consistently to play
any harder than Rick Patino's teams everywhere he's been, including
in the NBA outside of the Celtics. But yeah, he's
an amazing when it comes to x'es and o's and
motivation and recruiting, He's an amazing coach, There's no question
about it.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So it is very unique. I have them making the
Final four. They don't shoot threes particularly well, but either
does half ninety percent of the field. I mean, you
see San Diego's rare BYU is rare. Saint John's can't
shoot threes, Houston's not great at it. Michigan State can't.
I mean I watched Michigan Michigan State play a couple
of weeks ago, and Michigan State ends up scoring in
(27:47):
the eighties. I don't know how, but they get there.
So I don't really use that as a deficit. I
think Saint John's can muscle and defend and coach its
way to the final four. But I'll go being back
to my initial point. You know Duke basketball because of
the book Coach k which I strongly recommend if you've
never read it, it is I think it's in my opinion,
I think it's your best book, and I've read all
of them. I loved it. Duke is the most talented
(28:13):
team Coach k Leaves. And usually it almost always works
this way. You give it to a popular assistant coach
and he just doesn't have the gravitas or the weight
to hold this massive brand afloat. But Duke this year
(28:35):
feels like to me the odds on favorite, like if
they want, it's the only team you wouldn't even ask
how you'd go? Okay, Cooper flag are you surprised by
Coach k Leaves? And yet Duke remains vibrant.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
No, I'm not surprised, Colin. I think Duke does recruit
itself to some degree. But John Shier's recruiting has been
unbelievable since coach k left. And you start with that.
Of course, that's the lifeblood of college basketball in all
college sports, and he's been terrific at that, and he's
just a really good coach too, in terms of ex's
and o's. But if you look at that team right now,
(29:10):
it's it's almost a perfect college basketball team. They've got
the big man who's seven to two with an incredible wingspan.
He's a top ten, top fifteen NBA pick. You've got
a forward who's a top fifteen on one side. On
the other side, you've got one of the best freshmen
we've ever seen in college basketball, who's the number one pick,
assuming he's healthy and he looks like he's going to play.
(29:33):
And in the backcourt you've got two guys who are six'
five at. Guard, now, yeah maybe the one question mark
you have against a team that has, smaller quicker, guards
maybe that's a little bit of an. Issue but, size,
skill the, coaching the, pedigree everything is in place For
dupe to. Win the national. CHAMPIONSHIP i actually don't think they,
(29:53):
will BUT i certainly wouldn't be surprised if they, do
because they probably do have the best. TEAM i actual
you Think houston is going to win the national, Title
and it's a bit of a strange. REASON i just
Think Kelvin sampson has been such a good coach for so,
long it seems to me that he's going to get
one before he. Retires and you, look really that's kind
of a funny. Reason but if you look at the
(30:15):
way they, defend they have, guards AND i just think
at some point he's going to pick one. Off John
shire is very worthy coach of winning a national. Tie
if you recall from my, Book COACH k wanted him
to be the. Coach the university actually Wanted Tommy amacker
to be the next head, coach But COACH k sort
of got his way on that, one and, frankly you
(30:37):
cannot argue with the. Results John shire has been.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Tremendous, yeah for the, uninitiated, again for the people that
don't Follow duke closely or college, basketball what was? Boy
that must have been, tough remember reading about it in your.
Book you Have amaker And shire and you, know and
here Comes COACH. K, eventually you know he's going to
(31:00):
make a. Choice what Is shire's, strength what's this foundational
piece that made him the? Choice and why you Think
COACH k eventually leaned to him.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Because he was in his. System it had been a
long time Since amaker had been an assistant At. Duke of,
course he was a very important player in the development
of that championship program Under COACH k and has done
a good job in THE Ivy. League But shier was.
There shire was a great. Player he was going to
play of THE nba serious eye injury early in what
(31:32):
would have BEEN i think a pretty GOOD nba. Career
but the way he relates to. Kids i've had just
a couple of conversations with, him but been around enough
people who are in his world, consistently and he's just
a very relatable. Guy and SO i think the fact
that he was a, really really good player there and
the fact that he is he's got the right personality
(31:55):
to connect with. People he obviously has THE x AND
o background From COACH, k and you put it all,
together and, again it is a campus that does recruit
itself to some degree and a program that does recruit
itself to some. Degree it's a pretty powerful. Combination SO i.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Said this the other day on the. Show you, know
OBVIOUSLY i was in The northeast for ten and a half,
years but one of the THINGS i observed WHEN i
was in the city a lot or near it In
connecticut is, that you, know there's a lot Of yankee
And met, fans and a lot Of giant And jet,
fans but everybody In New york likes The. Knicks it's
(32:33):
just every single FRIEND i had In New, york and
many of, them more than The yankees Or, giants Were
nick fans. First and, Again i'm old enough to remember
The Walt, Fraser Bill, Bradley Earl. Monroe, yet LIKE i
go back to the seventies when nobody. Won you, know
The lakers won a, title The warriors, did The Washington bullets,
(32:53):
did The, sonics The, blazers The, knicks and then there
were the Pat riley. Iterations BUT i always, Said, god
If dolan could get out of the, way this city
loves its team so. Much AND i think when The
sphere got built for two, Years dolan removed himself from the,
FACILITY i mean literally. Physically he was In vegas so,
(33:14):
often and it allowed The knicks to really grow this
really strong basketball, group AND i think they've made very,
patient very sharp. MOVES i don't Think kat is the,
future BUT i think he was the right move at
the right. Time but there was a moment Between tibbs
And Josh hart the other day And Michale bridges it
(33:35):
was public that he had gone To. Tibbs, hey we
need to play the starters. Less you, know young players
don't get a lot of work and minutes Under. Tibbs
as great as the brief journey has been With, tom
it does feel, like does it not Ian to get
to the next, level you need two. Moves Karl Anthony
(33:58):
towns probably gets replace with a better defensive big or
just like A, kd a greater, player And tibbs may
not be the. Answer or is that me three thousand
miles away Guessing.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
NO i think it's possible that's the. CASE i do
Think tibbs is good enough to win a championship as
a head. Coach they lose in the second round again this.
Year THERE i don't think he'll get replaced BECAUSE i
think he'll lose to a better. TEAM i think The
celtics are, better and surprisingly, ENOUGH i did not think
The cavs would be, better but they. Are they just.
Are so if they lose in the second, round to
(34:33):
say The, celtics defire the guy off that you're losing
to a better. Team The celtics have better. Players The
knicks have improved their rosters, certainly AND i didn't Think
Jalen bruns AND i wasn't sure if he'd be this
or it could be the second best player on a
championship team when they acquired. Him NOW i do think
he could be one of the top, two if not
the best player on a championship. Team he's an incredible,
(34:56):
player AND i think a lot of people In New
york were surprised by. THAT i think where The knicks
are right now is it's kind of funny Because jets
fans have been complaining and complaining About Woody, johnson the
owner for a long. Time Woody johnson hires and we'll
find out if he did the right general manager And
mouji and the right head coach And Aaron. Glenn he's
going to go away And jets fans will never talk about.
(35:17):
Him The knicks fans are not talking About Jim, dollon
and they haven't now for a number of years because
he hired the right general. Manager AND i was a.
Gamble Leon rose had never done this. Job he was
a very good, agent he had never been a general,
manager and early ON i wasn't so. Sure but turns
out he knows what he's, doing And, tims of course
everybody knew he knew what he was. Doing he's proven
(35:38):
that he could be a very valuable piece of a
coaching staff that won a championship In boston Under Doc,
rivers and so is. He it's almost Like Buck showalter
did all the dirty work on The yankees in the
mid nineties and then he got replaced By Joe, tory
And Joe tory then one flow up. Series i'm not
saying that the Next knicks coach is going to win
(35:59):
for tied in the next five years after that, happens
BUT i think that he's going to get one more
year after another second round. Exit maybe The knicks will
surprise us and win that second round matchup with say The.
CELTICS i don't think that will, happen BUT i do
think you're right in terms of the. Roster it looks
like they're still believe it or not after all the
(36:21):
moves they've made and what five number one picks For
bridges and then they made The cat deal and They
brunson deal was an incredible. One it still looks like
they need to make one more move and Maybe cat
is a part of that. Package but, yeah right, now
it's just they're in a tough way because of The
celtics being in their way and now The calves have
hurdled them and they sure look like they're for. Real
(36:46):
the volume
The volume. All right, it's time for our weekly hour
with John Middlecoff, who will eventually take some time off.
He got married last week. And okay, let's do some NFL.
You know, I had said this last year. I thought
the Niners were going to start regressing. I thought they
(00:22):
should have started the rebuild last year. They did it.
This year. They let Debo and Hufunga and Green Lawn
Shavarious Ward go. They have twelve draft picks, but it's
a week draft, so let's say you hit on six
year draft picks. I thought last year was the first
year in the last several. I just didn't think their
defense was intimidating. I thought when Bosa was off the field,
(00:44):
it was weak. I thought you could kind of manipulate it.
I said this, I think Darnold and the Seahawks have
a chance to be really interesting. Where are you on
the Niners right now? A lot of draft picks. I mean,
they didn't want to let Houfunk Gun Green Law Goals
are excellent instinctive players. I mean, now you're getting to
(01:04):
a point now where you're really crossing your fingers with
Christian McCaffrey and Trent Williams.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Big time. I think every move in a vacuum is
easy to justify, it's not. I mean green Law was
coming off of torn achilles, came back for a half,
he looked like Fred Warner junior, and then couldn't play
the rest of the season. Who funk got acl multiple
injuries to it, like all the all the moves in
a vacuum. Oh, let him go. You're not gonna pay
that much for banks trade this backup running back. He
(01:31):
was gonna make five million dollars on the totality, though,
You go, that's losing a lot of guys, like who
are going to be your backups? I think they would
have somewhat started last year. It's much more difficult, though,
when you have a team coming off being up late
in the Super Bowl against the current dynasty. So you go,
we are right there. All these guys are championship level players.
(01:52):
I think they're big mistake in where they got really
rattled for a long period of time. The Niners, like
fifteen twenty years ago, they could extend the Patrick Willis's,
the Frank Ors, the Vernon Davis's relatively cheap and they
were great at it. Because Parrague Marate their Mundy guy
is elite. He's like Howie Roseman, but he's not a GM.
He just like runs the York's money and he runs
their international soccer team well as the Caps exploded players.
(02:16):
I don't want to say it's the NBA, but they
do have a lot more juice. When Jamar Chase says
I'm not playing for anything less than thirty eight to
forty million dollars, like he's not really bullshit, Like he's
not taking a discount. The top guys have some juice,
but now the middle tier guys, like they would have
laughed at Brandon Auke ten years ago and they would
have won, but they were kind of in no man's land,
and their coach, you know, who has a lot of juice,
(02:36):
didn't want to get rid of their best receiver, and
he took advantage of him, and that really rattled them
because they immediately regretted it. If they could do that
all over again, they would have traded him before the
draft instead. Now they're trying to trade him. He's got
an ACL and like he's untradeable for anything of value,
and they're kind of in a weird spot. But the
elephant in the room is the quarterback. And listen, Mike
Silver has known the Shanahan family for thirty plus years
(02:58):
and he's been reporting like they are telling everyone, take
a deep breath. We're cutting some costs and we got
to kind of recalibrate because I think they saw what
the Rams did these last couple of years. Yes, now
the difference is and look look at what the Bills
did last year. I mean the Bills got rid of
like half their big names. Well, Josh Allen's one of
the greatest talents I've ever seen, and Matt Stafford whall
Older was right there with would be considered Josh Allen
(03:23):
ten years ago. He just played first shitty franchise, Like
that's not Brock Purty and we all know that. Look
at the NFC colin the two best quarterbacks you'd say,
you know, I would say win wise and statistically would
be Jalen and Jared Goff are on loaded rosters offensively,
like we would say, you put either one of those
guys on like the Jags or a bad team, it's
gonna be props. Pretty the same thing. When he's on
(03:43):
a good team, he's proven he canna be a really
good player. But like if you're cutting costs and depending
on some randos. It's just it's a pretty scary I
do think they are gonna low ball Brock party and
they're gonna make this more difficult because they before it
was just like, hey, Trent, what do you want? Which
I know would have a problem with doing that to Trent. Yeah,
but the two were It's like, you're not Jamar Chase
and your team doesn't play like that. It doesn't make
(04:04):
any sense. I get the Cowboys. They throw out to
Ceedee Lamb every other play. Yes, Brandon and I you
had a career year seventy five. But at the end
of the day, they do have a big time coach
at a bad year, but he's proven to be really
good and still a culture. They get Robert solid Back.
I wouldn't count him out yet, but it's gonna be
a lot of new names Colin, and they're gonna be
very dependent on these high They have the eleventh pick,
(04:27):
like you need a Micah Parsons. You need to you know,
look at the Eagles and the Cowboy. When the Cowboys
got Mike O or the Eagles got Davonte Smith. You're
gonna have to nail this well.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
And also there are certain positions in football running back
I think wide receiver, some say cornerback, where you can
come in and make an impact pretty quickly. It's very instinctive.
But where the Niners are drafting offensive line, maybe another
(04:58):
tight end, you know, a play calling linebacker, a crucial
safety in their defense. Those are hard positions to go
college and pro. I mean, if you look at very
few tight ends come into this league, brock Bauers is
a total outlier. Very good tight ends have struggled because
the blocking assignments now are so so difficult compared to college.
(05:21):
So the Niners are asking players from college in the
twelve draft picks to come into positions replace excellent instinctive,
smart veteran players. Forget just making tackles. I mean green
law is, I mean he is. He and Warner are
anchors and communicators, and I think those kind of positions
to replace, I have no problem. You know, it'd be
(05:44):
one thing. If they're replacing you know, one corner one
running back, you get to the offensive line. In Kyle
Shanahan's system, you're lost until Thanksgiving. That's a tough rebuild.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Oh for sure. Same with wide receivers. I mean same
with Listen. Even if they draft defensive lineman with the
eleventh pick, Khalil Mack, who's one of the better players
of his generation. I think at four and a half
sacks his rookie year. Jared Verse last year, who came
on toward the end, wasn't a dominant, dominant force all
season long.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I covered Warren Sap in Tampa. It wasn't until the
end of his first year that he made an impact
here too. He was fantastic. But this league, there are
guys that can make impacts. But I don't see the Niners.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Their schedule sucks, their schedules bad. They have a last
play schedule and they get to draft really high in
every round. I think one of the divisions they play
is the AFC South. I mean, I would say even
before this mass exodus, I still think ten wins is
very very you know, look at what the Rams have
done these last couple of years. I think sometimes when
(06:48):
you are as they say in most you know, world
industries on boarding players. I think McVeigh uses that too,
it takes a little time and then you kind of
catch fire. I mean, I think they were one in
four last year and two and three and six the
year before. Now, you don't want to make a living.
It's you do that ten times. A lot of times
you're gonna end up with seven or eight wins. But
(07:10):
you start a little slow and then you peak. One
thing is very, very key for the forty nine ers.
I'd say two guys. Trent Williams got to be on
the field, and if Christian McCaffrey is just healthy, which
who knows. I mean, he had multiple akilles, he tore
his knee, but he is a major, major wild card
in the NFL, going back to the Panther days. When
he's on the field, he's one of the best players
in the league. When he's off, especially with Kyle, he
(07:32):
kind of derails their operation.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So I thought the team, you can tell who has
the power. In most organizations, McVeigh runs the Rams. I
think Shanahan until recently had power on the draft. Andy
Reid doesn't want it necessarily, Belichick did, Sean Payton does
in Denver. You can tell the moves when coaches are making.
(07:55):
Chicago clearly signaled that Ben Johnson's run the show for
him to replace the entire interior. O line was telling
Ryan Poles, you got your picks stink. And I thought, frankly,
for the Chicago Bears, who I've been saying this for
so many years, they're like, they're just a defensive culture.
(08:17):
For a guy to come in and spend money on
guards and centers, I thought it was a real moment
in the history of the Chicago Bears. I was like, Wow,
this field, I mean, how many years have the Steelers
been hamming egging it on their offensive line? Tomlin runs
the show, I for the first time that I can remember.
(08:37):
I really like the direction where the Bears are going well.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I think sometimes when you get like the whiz kid,
the great offensive coordinator, they just want to score points
and they're thinking quarterback and wide receiver. Ben Johnson's pretty
lucky that his welcome to stardom in the NFL started
with the trenches. I mean, I mean, let's face it,
the Lions really separated themselves with a dominant offensive line,
so they go and trade for a guy. It's crazy.
You and I talk about these young quarterbacks. By that
(09:04):
second year Thanksgiving, it's like you're on the clock, like
your career is in troubles. It's like that now with
free agency, the Rams side Jojah Jackson last year, three years,
fifty one million dollars. Less than a year later, it's
like traded. I mean these teams now, the money and
the cash bonuses. Sealing that not in a million years,
I would say, up till what seven eight years ago,
would have ever happened because no owner, it's like he's
(09:25):
a good player, and it's like, yeah, not a great fit.
Seal you later. So they get a guy that they know,
the Falcon Center is good and you see Andy Reid's
quotes on toon, He's like, he's one of the toughest
guys I've ever We don't want to trade this guy.
We just there's money involved and we can't afford to
keep them lay.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
We had the best year of his career arguably because
he went to left Tackleon was excellent.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
To me. He's like his generation's Logan Mankins. I mean,
just a plug and play guy who could play multiple
positions as a stud. The other thing is when you
have a smaller quarterback. You know, Non Peyton Manning, Tom Brady,
the flat gol that generation and all those guys were huge,
you know, Carson Palmer, Caleb. This generation is a little smaller, well,
Sean Payton dealt with one in that generation, and they
(10:07):
always invested in centers and guards. They had high because
the pressure up the middle it rattles and he can't
see where Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Historically they had
some pretty random guys on some seasons when they had
good teams playing center and guard, they get away with it.
Smaller quarterbacks cannot. It hurts pretty sometimes when they get
in past situations and the garden center gets smoked. He's swimming.
(10:29):
He can handle the outside pressure because he can move around.
Same with Caleb he can move. But up the middle
you are screwed. So they they could have I know
they've invested draft picks and some tackles, but we'll see
how good those guys turn out to be. But they
went all in on the garden center position because I
think with a smaller quarterback it's really really important to
just neutralize. Think how many teams also have a good
(10:52):
interior pass rush now, So yeah, it was hard to
I mean, that was a no brainer. Moved by the Bears,
and Ryan Pole is pretty lucky that this the way
this He kept his job and he's still here and
he gets to be a.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Part of this. Yeah, I mean a couple of years ago,
he whiffed on Villas Jones and I was like, oh dude,
you could have called me.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
And then the Chase played with Rome. I mean, Rome
was a pretty looking back. You should have taken an
offensive lineman.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, but Villas Jones, miss Chase Claypool, miss Roma Danze
not as good as we thought.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So again, I think you and I agree. I think
the Bears are head in the right direction. You just
pointed out something and I've been on this for a
few years that I think there's a duality to all
the owners being billionaires and some being ten, fifteen, twenty billionaires.
Is that number one? The downside is they're more willing
(11:44):
to just fire people quickly. They're more impulsive than they've
ever been when they were all worth six hundred million.
You're you're not just riding a seventeen to twenty five
million dollar check to blow out a staff. You're just
not doing it. Now. These guys will just blow out
a seventy million dollar staff. So who does that hurt?
It hurts a young quarterback who has to have another staff. So,
(12:06):
I mean, Caleb Williams, even though he upgrades staffs. It's
a brand new system. So that's the downside. The upside, though,
is when you make a mistake with personnel like Rams
and Jonah Jackson where it just didn't feel great, you
can just move off it. And so you know this,
you know you can never move off NBA contracts or
(12:28):
baseball contracts. They're so guaranteed. In the NFL. Now, if
you make a mistake, guys just write shacks and go all.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Right, big Jo.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I mean for the Bears to get Drew Dolman and
Joe Toney, Jesus, you have your You're you may not
be Philadelphia or Detroit, but that's a top three interior
O line in the league.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Well, let's you even use I mean, the craziest example
currently is his cousin's example. Now, I know Arthur Blank
is probably I don't know where he ranks, but he's
not near the bottom when it comes to wealth. They're like, well,
you're not gonna us around. We're gonna pay you ten
million for next year. He obviously he's not gonna be
the team next year, and we'll eat it until we
figure this out. But you are gonna capitulate and you're
(13:09):
gonna give us a trade eventually before the season starts.
That never would happen. I thought it was like, no,
no human lives is gonna give him ten million dollars
guaranteed for next year. Cousin's gonna win this. They will
cut him. I thought he'd be cut, you know, Wednesday Thursday.
He's like, no, they just picked it up. But he's
still there and we'll just have a staring contest. It's
that that never would have happened without the influx of cash.
(13:30):
I thought this when some of these deals are I
mean Aaron Banks, the Niners left guard, got, I mean
so much money. Milton Williams, who is obviously a really
talented players he never played more than fifty percent of
the snap for the Eagles, got twenty six million dollars
a year.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I was watching a clip of Jim Harbaugh and I
had just had this discussion with Steve Kime about a
week ago, two weeks ago, and I said, if I
was ever a GM, because he owes jokes. He said,
you're not a talk show host. You want to be
a GM. And I'm like, you know, I like my job,
but I would love to be a GM, you know,
(14:08):
if I would have put thirty years into that instead
of what I'm doing. Who knows, you know, you don't know.
But I told him, I said I would overdraft the
offensive line. And Harbaugh said this, and this is what
Steve and I said. Jim put it more smartly. He said,
there's only one unit in a football field that doesn't
(14:29):
rely on any other unit, yet every other unit relies
on it. And he said, it's offensive line. It makes
your quarterback better, your running back's better, your tight end
doesn't have to block as vigorously, your wide receivers have
more time to get downfield. It keeps your defense off
the field if you have a great offensive line. And
it was one of those things where when you go
(14:50):
back to drafting Joe Ault over a wide receiver, the
Bears went wide receiver and then this year had to
spend a fortune on their offensive line instead of The
Bears probably should have gone O line instead of going
with Romadunze. But it is interesting that the more the NFL,
you know, changes and becomes an offensive league. We pay
(15:11):
so much attention to quarterbacks. But I and I made
this pick the other day. I think the Chiefs are
going to struggle and I don't think they're going to
win their division. I don't think in this draft class
there's a starting left tackle good enough in their division
to block Max Crosby or Khalil Mack or the kid
(15:35):
number fifteen Oklahoma Bito Budido. And it's really interesting I think.
I mean, right now, the three or four teams I
like in the league all have great old lines, all
of them. Philadelphia, Detroit. I thought the Rams finally got
their act together offensive line. I think Buffalo's last year
was better than people thought. I thought Denver's was better
(15:57):
than people thought. I think Kansas City, I think we've
just baked it in.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
John.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
They're not going ten to one in close games next year.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, I would agree there, but their offensive line was
puture this year on the on the edges, and they
were able to well. I mean, they were basically a
sixteen and one team. They threw the last game of
the season. So when it comes to coaching, when it
comes to quarterback play, and most importantly, their defense is
gonna be good. So like part of the reason they
were winn all these games because they could win nineteen
to seventeen. They weren't allowing many points that that is
(16:30):
not going to change. Now the Chargers in the Broncos,
You and I have been saying this. Anyone with common
sense has been saying this. The worst their teams were
gonna be was last season. They're both gonna be better.
So if either Houfunga or Greenlaw play, that defense is
going to be improved in Denver's defense was awesome. When
I saw Dk Metcalf ask for a trade, a lot
of people that covered the NFL were like the Chargers.
(16:52):
It's like, guys, do you think that Jim Harbaugh is
going to trade a top whatever fifty pick and pay
a third contract to this kind of out there wide
receiver though very talented, kind of the poor man's modern
day Torell Owens type. It's different, But I mean I
think physically they have some to Dk Metcalf. Are you
guys nuts? And what does he do? He goes signs
(17:13):
Makai Beckton and he's he's got a huge I see
yesterday he's got a huge smile on his face. Like,
have you guys not followed Jim Harbaugh's career since Stanford?
This they might draft a wide receiver this year in
the third round. I would expect tight end, d lineman
running back like it's Naji Harris. When I was living
in the Bay Area, Naj was his senior year, was
(17:34):
one of the biggest recruits in the country. I think
he was number one recruit. He was number one and
it was committed to go to Alabama, but Jim was
recruiting him very hard. And I saw a clip that
Jim had an Antioch. I think he went to the
homecoming game. He announced their king and queen and so
like that's who he's Listen. I'm not the biggest nause
star running back, first round guy, but he is a solid,
(17:56):
runs down hill, physical guy. Like that's how Jim wants
to play. Jim wants to play a lot like this
version of the Chiefs and clearly Denver. I think Sean
would like to be a little more explosive down the field,
but like that that division is gonna be really physical.
And same thing with the I mean, we know how
Pete Carroll, why did he butt heads with Russell Wilson.
(18:16):
Russell wanted to throw it fifty times a game. Pete
wanted to throw about twenty in play d and run
the ball. So I think this defense is gonna or
this divisions is gonna look a lot like each other. Now,
you know, if for she Rice is healthy, Xavier Worthy
came on. I do think the Chiefs offense could get
more explosive, and I would also guess that they draft
a running back. I think all these teams in this
(18:37):
division could draft running backs. Yes, and if two of
the four of them become stars, whichever ones those guys
go to, like the next Yamier Gibbs or whoever Nick Chubb,
you know, you name it, those second round running backs
hit for one of these teams could be the difference.
If all of a sudden, you tell me Denver it
has a version of Nick Chubb or you know, Alvin
Kamara on their squad, I'd be like, well, why couldn't
(18:57):
they win twelve or thirteen games? Same thing with with Chargers.
And maybe this is the year the Chiefs win. Two
years ago when they won a Super Bowl, I think
they won eleven games. So the difference between eleven and
fifteen is like a couple of missfield goals and a
couple of fumbles go your way.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, the yeah, it's it's I thought. I thought DeVante
Adams was obviously a great move for the Rams. But
I thought, Najie Harris, there were a couple of moves
I loved offensively. I think Deebo Samuel to Cliff Kingsbury
and Jaden is a sensational move for them. At this point,
He'll get tons of looks and by the way, it
(19:33):
will give Cliff another twelve offensive plays because Deebo is
such a unique player. And then I also thought, I thought,
I thought Najie Harris. I'm like, remember a couple of
years ago when Kevin Dohnson wasn't going to start for
the Steelers, McVeagh grams him and he literally is the
highest rated guard in the league. Naj Harris with that
(19:56):
Pittsburgh go line, everybody's like almost as semi. I bust
watch him with hardball, watch him be really effective with hardball.
I think of this all the time. Is I remember
a GM telling this year's ago he said, I used
to love drafting Georgia guys when Mark Rick was there.
(20:16):
Great recruiter, didn't squeeze all the juice out of a
player like you got. You know, these guys had a
lot of upside. Nick Saban squeezes every ounce of talent
out of guys. And one of the things I look
at John, when these offensive coaches like McVeigh will go
and find wide receivers. He looked at DeVante and he
(20:36):
thought Jets staff last year was like third tier. He's like,
DeVante's gonna make eighty catches for us, So I thought, yeah,
I mean so, I do think when you see these
offensive coaches they find some of these defensive cultures and
they find players and go get me that well.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I think you look at the Eagles last year, Makai Beckton.
This year they trade for that former first round pick
from the Doones because now listen, you're not going to
hit on them all, but the power of having good
coordinators and now so many of the offensive ones are
also the head coach. But you see it a lot
when the star offensive line coach or the star defensive
line coach. It's like buying a cheap stock and the
(21:15):
guy a year later turns into a twelve million dollar
player you can't afford, but you bought low like you
profited from it. And I think the best teams always
have that ability. I also think the Washington Commanders with
Debo and with Tunsel touns Old not as much because
he would get paid no matter what you got. Debo's
in a contract years like Debo. If you ever want
to make a even of a two year, forty million
(21:37):
dollar contract, again, you got to slim down and give
us all you got. And I think sometimes getting those
guys motivated is a really big deal for these you know,
it used to be a guy going to their third
contract probably be like thirty four years old. These guys
are a little younger now, you know, they're twenty nine,
thirty years old, sometimes on their third you know, DK Metcalf. Yeah,
they're not as old as you know in previous generation.
(22:00):
And so sometimes these teams now with their cap space,
these free aging classes after like the first ten names,
most of them like the average fans like who's that guy?
You can take advantage of it with traits overpriced guys
on other teams at Adam Peters really did that with
Tunzel and Deebo Samuel a ton of cap space. But
I'm not going to buy all these players and pay
premiums on guys that aren't quite worth it, like the Packers. Listen.
(22:23):
I understand Aaron Banks has been a starter for the
forty nine ers, but to give him that much money
to be your left guard. Fell a little desperate to
me as guard works. We have seen some questionable guard
contracts in recent memory, and I understand offensive linemen more
of a plug and play. It's a lot of money
to pay a guy. You might be able to find
a plug and play starter in like the third round,
and the Packers historically have always been able to do it.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
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Speaker 1 (24:08):
Well, he's one of my favorite people in the media.
He has New York Times best selling books on Aaron Rodgers,
coach k Derek Jeter, and Bill Belichick. Pretty impressive resume.
He has got a new one coming out with Dan Hurley,
which is fascinating because Hurley and Yukon have had a
spirited and disappointing season, and the book is coming out
(24:28):
in September called Never Stop Life, Leadership and What it
Takes to Be Great, co written with Dan Hurley. I
want to get to that in a second. I want
to start with Rick Patino and Saint John's. So for
the uninitiated, Saint John's is in Queens, one of the
five boroughs used to be in Brooklyn, actually a long
time ago Catholic university between the airports is how I
remember being described to me one time, and it was
(24:52):
in the Big East, which is the greatest basketball conference,
the most personality filled basketball conference at its best in
the history, between players and coaches, and so Louis carnaseca
Ages of Leaves. It's not the same university many people tried.
Then one of the great coaches of all time, Rick
Bettina and New Yorker gets the job. So let's start
(25:13):
with that. I couldn't say the last time Duke and
Saint John's both had a chance to win the title
in the same tournament. So it's a fascinating tournament. But
when Rick took the job, I mean I said this
the other day. You know, his moral compass has sometimes
flipped around, But in terms of basketball iq EQ and
program building.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
He is.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
He is parcels plus Urban Meyer. You know, he is
just one of these guys that can do a Jim Harbaugh.
What is the secret sauce?
Speaker 4 (25:42):
You know?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Rick? What is his secret sauce? What's different between Rick
and so many other coaches that go to these programs?
I own a Saint John's and just make it work quickly.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Great question, And I think, first of all, I think
the two best, which is in the history of the sport,
are John Wooden and Mike Sheryzewsky. So if you look
at their bodies of work, yeah, I think they're the
top two. But I also believe Rick Patino is just
as good as they were. I think that he's as
good as any college basketball coach ever. And it's just
the ferocity with which he gets his kids to play defense.
(26:19):
And it really works at Saint John's, and of course
it worked at Louisville, it worked at Kentucky and to Providence.
But he's such a New Yorker and that is such
a New York style of play on the playgrounds that
it really translates. And this has been a very likable team.
The city has fallen in love with Saint John's. Now,
when I started my career, Saint John's would take the
(26:40):
back page of the tabloids away from the Knicks, and
so it's been a long time since that was possible.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Now.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Of course, the tabloids aren't what they used to be
in New York or newspapers anywhere, of course, but Saint
John's is now a team that the city has embraced.
And Patino that style of played. He did it even
with the mix, pressing, defense, attention to detail, just playing
with that ferocity. And yeah, I don't know if I've
(27:08):
ever seen a coach get his kids consistently to play
any harder than Rick Patino's teams everywhere he's been, including
in the NBA outside of the Celtics. But yeah, he's
an amazing when it comes to x'es and o's and
motivation and recruiting, He's an amazing coach, There's no question
about it.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So it is very unique. I have them making the
Final four. They don't shoot threes particularly well, but either
does half ninety percent of the field. I mean, you
see San Diego's rare BYU is rare. Saint John's can't
shoot threes, Houston's not great at it. Michigan State can't.
I mean I watched Michigan Michigan State play a couple
of weeks ago, and Michigan State ends up scoring in
(27:47):
the eighties. I don't know how, but they get there.
So I don't really use that as a deficit. I
think Saint John's can muscle and defend and coach its
way to the final four. But I'll go being back
to my initial point. You know Duke basketball because of
the book Coach k which I strongly recommend if you've
never read it, it is I think it's in my opinion,
I think it's your best book, and I've read all
of them. I loved it. Duke is the most talented
(28:13):
team Coach k Leaves. And usually it almost always works
this way. You give it to a popular assistant coach
and he just doesn't have the gravitas or the weight
to hold this massive brand afloat. But Duke this year
(28:35):
feels like to me the odds on favorite, like if
they want, it's the only team you wouldn't even ask
how you'd go? Okay, Cooper flag are you surprised by
Coach k Leaves? And yet Duke remains vibrant.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
No, I'm not surprised, Colin. I think Duke does recruit
itself to some degree. But John Shier's recruiting has been
unbelievable since coach k left. And you start with that.
Of course, that's the lifeblood of college basketball in all
college sports, and he's been terrific at that, and he's
just a really good coach too, in terms of ex's
and o's. But if you look at that team right now,
(29:10):
it's it's almost a perfect college basketball team. They've got
the big man who's seven to two with an incredible wingspan.
He's a top ten, top fifteen NBA pick. You've got
a forward who's a top fifteen on one side. On
the other side, you've got one of the best freshmen
we've ever seen in college basketball, who's the number one pick,
assuming he's healthy and he looks like he's going to play.
(29:33):
And in the backcourt you've got two guys who are six'
five at. Guard, now, yeah maybe the one question mark
you have against a team that has, smaller quicker, guards
maybe that's a little bit of an. Issue but, size,
skill the, coaching the, pedigree everything is in place For
dupe to. Win the national. CHAMPIONSHIP i actually don't think they,
(29:53):
will BUT i certainly wouldn't be surprised if they, do
because they probably do have the best. TEAM i actual
you Think houston is going to win the national, Title
and it's a bit of a strange. REASON i just
Think Kelvin sampson has been such a good coach for so,
long it seems to me that he's going to get
one before he. Retires and you, look really that's kind
of a funny. Reason but if you look at the
(30:15):
way they, defend they have, guards AND i just think
at some point he's going to pick one. Off John
shire is very worthy coach of winning a national. Tie
if you recall from my, Book COACH k wanted him
to be the. Coach the university actually Wanted Tommy amacker
to be the next head, coach But COACH k sort
of got his way on that, one and, frankly you
(30:37):
cannot argue with the. Results John shire has been.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Tremendous, yeah for the, uninitiated, again for the people that
don't Follow duke closely or college, basketball what was? Boy
that must have been, tough remember reading about it in your.
Book you Have amaker And shire and you, know and
here Comes COACH. K, eventually you know he's going to
(31:00):
make a. Choice what Is shire's, strength what's this foundational
piece that made him the? Choice and why you Think
COACH k eventually leaned to him.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Because he was in his. System it had been a
long time Since amaker had been an assistant At. Duke of,
course he was a very important player in the development
of that championship program Under COACH k and has done
a good job in THE Ivy. League But shier was.
There shire was a great. Player he was going to
play of THE nba serious eye injury early in what
(31:32):
would have BEEN i think a pretty GOOD nba. Career
but the way he relates to. Kids i've had just
a couple of conversations with, him but been around enough
people who are in his world, consistently and he's just
a very relatable. Guy and SO i think the fact
that he was a, really really good player there and
the fact that he is he's got the right personality
(31:55):
to connect with. People he obviously has THE x AND
o background From COACH, k and you put it all,
together and, again it is a campus that does recruit
itself to some degree and a program that does recruit
itself to some. Degree it's a pretty powerful. Combination SO i.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Said this the other day on the. Show you, know
OBVIOUSLY i was in The northeast for ten and a half,
years but one of the THINGS i observed WHEN i
was in the city a lot or near it In
connecticut is, that you, know there's a lot Of yankee
And met, fans and a lot Of giant And jet,
fans but everybody In New york likes The. Knicks it's
(32:33):
just every single FRIEND i had In New, york and
many of, them more than The yankees Or, giants Were
nick fans. First and, Again i'm old enough to remember
The Walt, Fraser Bill, Bradley Earl. Monroe, yet LIKE i
go back to the seventies when nobody. Won you, know
The lakers won a, title The warriors, did The Washington bullets,
(32:53):
did The, sonics The, blazers The, knicks and then there
were the Pat riley. Iterations BUT i always, Said, god
If dolan could get out of the, way this city
loves its team so. Much AND i think when The
sphere got built for two, Years dolan removed himself from the,
FACILITY i mean literally. Physically he was In vegas so,
(33:14):
often and it allowed The knicks to really grow this
really strong basketball, group AND i think they've made very,
patient very sharp. MOVES i don't Think kat is the,
future BUT i think he was the right move at
the right. Time but there was a moment Between tibbs
And Josh hart the other day And Michale bridges it
(33:35):
was public that he had gone To. Tibbs, hey we
need to play the starters. Less you, know young players
don't get a lot of work and minutes Under. Tibbs
as great as the brief journey has been With, tom
it does feel, like does it not Ian to get
to the next, level you need two. Moves Karl Anthony
(33:58):
towns probably gets replace with a better defensive big or
just like A, kd a greater, player And tibbs may
not be the. Answer or is that me three thousand
miles away Guessing.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
NO i think it's possible that's the. CASE i do
Think tibbs is good enough to win a championship as
a head. Coach they lose in the second round again this.
Year THERE i don't think he'll get replaced BECAUSE i
think he'll lose to a better. TEAM i think The
celtics are, better and surprisingly, ENOUGH i did not think
The cavs would be, better but they. Are they just.
Are so if they lose in the second, round to
(34:33):
say The, celtics defire the guy off that you're losing
to a better. Team The celtics have better. Players The
knicks have improved their rosters, certainly AND i didn't Think
Jalen bruns AND i wasn't sure if he'd be this
or it could be the second best player on a
championship team when they acquired. Him NOW i do think
he could be one of the top, two if not
the best player on a championship. Team he's an incredible,
(34:56):
player AND i think a lot of people In New
york were surprised by. THAT i think where The knicks
are right now is it's kind of funny Because jets
fans have been complaining and complaining About Woody, johnson the
owner for a long. Time Woody johnson hires and we'll
find out if he did the right general manager And
mouji and the right head coach And Aaron. Glenn he's
going to go away And jets fans will never talk about.
(35:17):
Him The knicks fans are not talking About Jim, dollon
and they haven't now for a number of years because
he hired the right general. Manager AND i was a.
Gamble Leon rose had never done this. Job he was
a very good, agent he had never been a general,
manager and early ON i wasn't so. Sure but turns
out he knows what he's, doing And, tims of course
everybody knew he knew what he was. Doing he's proven
(35:38):
that he could be a very valuable piece of a
coaching staff that won a championship In boston Under Doc,
rivers and so is. He it's almost Like Buck showalter
did all the dirty work on The yankees in the
mid nineties and then he got replaced By Joe, tory
And Joe tory then one flow up. Series i'm not
saying that the Next knicks coach is going to win
(35:59):
for tied in the next five years after that, happens
BUT i think that he's going to get one more
year after another second round. Exit maybe The knicks will
surprise us and win that second round matchup with say The.
CELTICS i don't think that will, happen BUT i do
think you're right in terms of the. Roster it looks
like they're still believe it or not after all the
(36:21):
moves they've made and what five number one picks For
bridges and then they made The cat deal and They
brunson deal was an incredible. One it still looks like
they need to make one more move and Maybe cat
is a part of that. Package but, yeah right, now
it's just they're in a tough way because of The
celtics being in their way and now The calves have
hurdled them and they sure look like they're for. Real
(36:46):
the volume
Host
Colin Cowherd
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