Colin is joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Things First” on FS1.
They start with the red-hot 24-1 Oklahoma City Thunder and why they are positioned to go on a 5+ year run of sustained success due to smart management & analytics rather than money like the Dodgers do in baseball (3:00). They debate whether the goal of parity is achievable and whether it’s good for sports (9:30).
They discuss why the influx of Asian fans really helps the MLB but the international stars in the NBA doesn’t move the needle in the same way, and the varying importance of star players to their respective sports (13:00).
They weigh in on Notre Dame’s complaints about being left out of the college football playoff despite not being a member of a conference and why the whining is not surprising (27:30). They also discuss how the playoff & conference realignment has led to the death of bowl games and some great rivalries (34:00).
They talk about why the “influencer” nature of Shedeur Sanders scared teams away from drafting him and why he’s proven to be much better than GM’s and scouts thought he’d be, but Danny cautions that it’s too soon to label him a franchise quarterback (40:30).
Finally, they highlight the tremendous progress and improvement Caleb Williams has made in year two. Colin argues that his comp is a “shorter Josh Allen” and Danny counters with a “young Aaron Rodgers” (53:00)
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)
Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Netflix is
basically Santa this year. Two NFL games on Christmas Day,
streaming live at one eastern Cowboys Commanders Dallas is suddenly
red ha could play big for the NFC playoff picture.
Then at four point thirty you've got the Lions struggling
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(00:25):
must win for Detroit. So watching holiday football is a tradition.
The whole family can get into, settle in, watch it.
The NFL Christmas Day games live on Netflix starting at
one pm Eastern time. Watching holiday football is a tradition.
The whole family can enjoy, open some gifts, grab some food,
settle in and watch NFL live on Netflix Christmas Day
starting at one pm Eastern time. So Danny Parkins is
(00:52):
joining me. You know, I'm from First Things First. And
if our camera angle looks a little weird this week,
it's a long story, but you're gonna have to deal
with it. Well that's just technicoh to you, that's finest.
So I had this rant today on my show, and
this has been a pretty consistent thing for thirty years
in the business that there is no even so, just
(01:15):
own dynasties. They're coming and they're going to come in
different forms. When the Lakers dominated forever, it wasn't that
they always paid the most. It's because Jerry Buss was
cool and the Laker girls were cool, and the weather
in the winter in a winter league was great, and
so people liked playing there. And then pat Riley went
to the Miami Heat and he sold the same thing.
(01:35):
Miami's cool. Miami's got perfect winter weather. So they won
on weather cool, not the most money. Duke basketball won
on resume and Mike Krzyzewski and il By the way,
now Indiana football's got better financing than most of the country.
Is it unfair? There is no even so. Oklahoma City
(01:57):
is not only twenty four and one, but analytically the
best defensive team ever they are. I mean, they're blowing
people out for two years now. The playoffs are different, right,
but they're going to have three first round picks this
year and could win the lottery, could have the number
one pick. And if you look at their egoists roster,
their coach, their GM, their bench, which is maybe the
deepest ever. They could have a five year run. Their
(02:18):
advantage has simply been they're smarter, they're more efficient, and
the new CBA, I would argue, is more putative to
ineffective gms. It punishes them more. I'll throw one more
stat at you. In nineteen eighty nine, the richest people
in the world had one point three trillion dollars. They
now have seventeen times that. Okay, seven different presidents. The
(02:38):
point is you can't legislate fair or even even socialism
doesn't perfectly work, and that when I look at OKC
and I look at the Dodgers, at least the Dodgers
are an interesting dynasty. At least they're doing it. Money
is their advantage and deferring payments. But it's watchable, okay,
seed to analytics, it's terribly boring. And that Adam Silver
(03:01):
wants everybody he wants parody, and I think it's idealistic
when the truth is you can't stop dynasties in golf, tennis,
skiing women's basketball. It doesn't matter. It's gender free.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And that.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Baseball and the NBA should both both should embrace the
money aspect. Players want to play in certain cities people
want to live in certain cities. They don't want to
live in Kansas City. They want to live in New York,
in LA and Boston and Chicago. And so when I
(03:38):
watch Oklahoma City's dominant dominance, I say, well, at least
the Dodgers dynasty. You just don't like that. It's money.
At least it's captivating, at least it's interesting. So I
know you don't agree with that I laid out my
but my take is the NBA, of all the pro leagues,
everything is going up. Nil has made the reter richer. Right,
everything's going up. Basketball is not because got parody and
(04:03):
nobody really truly wants parody, nor is it good for
the business model.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, I don't know if we're dealing with a little
bit of causation correlation there. Like you think that basketball's
ratings are not going up because of of parody. I
think ratings were up in Kansas City for the Royals
when they were good. They were down when they were
(04:28):
down when they're bad. Generally speaking, Like, my guess is
the Oklahoma City Thunder's local ratings are very good. Great,
that would be my guess, right, And so like, do
the Thunder have a fan base that is national or international.
Obviously not. So if a dynasty, because of Sam Presty's genius,
(04:53):
happens to take place in Oklahoma City, will that have
the appeal for basketball that a dynasty in LA and
the Dodgers, one of the most famous brands in all
of global sports has for baseball. Of course not. But
like if it was flipped and the analytically brilliant thing
that you called boring in basketball happened to be occurring
(05:17):
for the Bulls or the Celtics or the next my
guess is the ratings would be up. And if the
thing that the team that like happened to have the
best local TV deal in baseball was a small market
brand that people didn't care about, I don't think the
ratings would be up that way. Like I think it's
I think it's the Dodgers that is. It's captivating because
(05:40):
it's the Dodgers, and it's boring quote unquote to people
because it's Oklahoma City. Not necessarily because dynasty. I agree
with you, Dynasties generally speaking drive interest, like yeah, the Patriots,
the Chiefs, the Warriors, the Dodgers like, but the Spurs
when they were a dynasty weren't slaying it in national
(06:00):
TV ratings because it was San Antonio. So I don't
I don't know that I agree that. I think it's
like dynasty and brand drives ratings, unless in football, where
everything rates. Right, Yeah, so I guess, I guess basketball
and baseball, I do think it's more brand dependent.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Well, I think, I guess. My My ultimate point is
stop worrying about tanking and stop worrying about dynasties. Players
want to play where they want to play. There's too
many franchises, there's greed all over sports from the ownership position,
and I think we worry way too much about, you know, tanking.
The NBA has become to me kind of fear based
(06:43):
on this, Like they want to tell you it's a
player first league, but then they limit where players can go.
Whoever drafts them, whatever, you know, morbid, boring, bad team
drafts them. You are punished forever wanting go play where
you'd want to live in the winter, You're punished, right
(07:04):
like a Sacramento No player wants to live in Sacramento.
Most don't want to live in Salt Lake City. But
you're punished economically if you're going like I'm gonna go
live in Miami or I'm gonna go live in where Chicago.
You're punished.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
But if they didn't have those rules, yeah, is there
any way for Milwaukee and Oklahoma City to win?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, Oklahoma City's doing it now well.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
But but no, but they had any But they had
an advantage for Shay to re sign. Shae was in.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
He's a he's a low ego, low publicity star. He
doesn't care like he's a guy that would be like, yeah,
I can make a little bit more money here, but
it's so swayed. You can make so much more if
you stay that what young man who grew up with
average means is going to turn down two hundred million dollars,
(07:54):
So you actually become a prisoner of where you get drafted.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Listen, if we want to have a conversation about like
drafts in general not being great for like labor in
the workforce, I think that applies to all of the sports. Right,
Like like my my brother in law graduates from Purdue
Computer Engineering and he had offers from different places, right,
(08:18):
and he could choose, and he got to choose, and
he chose very he chose. Well, like you know, the
kid works in Nvidia, and like it's gone well for him,
Like could could have could have ended up at Hewlett
Packard would have been fine, but the dividend wouldn't be
as good. But so yeah, like he had options, he
wasn't drafted to in Vidia. He chose in Vidio, right,
(08:38):
So I obviously agree that that is anti capitalistic on
American all of those things, but I don't think that.
I do think that sports would in general, Like we
can talk specific Dodgers, specific Thunder specific any point in time,
I do think they in general would be less interesting
(09:00):
if the Lakers and the Heat won every NBA Championship,
the Dodgers and the Yankees won every World Series, and
you know, on and on down the line, if only
the big cities and only the big brands ever won,
I do think it would be less interesting. We do
like David and Goliath. It is a pretty popular narrative
(09:20):
that's built. And like I also would say like Yannis's
title in Milwaukee as just a basketball fan, and again,
I'm watching all of them, right, I'm watching all of them.
I would argue that Yannis, like not all titles are
created equal. I think we've talked about this like in
terms of how I view them, Like Katie hates this argument,
(09:42):
but I will contend that it is fair and logical.
His titles plural in Golden State are not as impressive
as Yannis's singular title in Milwaukee because Katie, because the
cap spiked in an abnormal and he joins a seventy
three win team that are that won before him and
(10:04):
one after him. It's like, congratulations, they had an owner
who was willing to pay the tax, and you know,
it was esthetically pleasing basketball and probably the best team
in the history of the sport. Very cool. But Yannis,
fifteenth overall pick, skinny kid from Greece, goes to Milwaukee,
signs three contract extensions with team that drafts him. They
(10:27):
build a new arena because of his popularity, and he
has one of the great close out NBA Finals performances
in the history of the sport. To bring one title
to Milwaukee, to me, that is more like of a
legendary title than Katie's titles plural in Golden State. And
I don't know, I think that's kind of related to
what you're talking about. I don't want to live in
(10:47):
a sports world where Yannis's title doesn't happen. I'm fine
with Golden State having the dynasty, but I want Jokic
to get his one. I want Yannis to get his one,
like I want both to exist.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Here's a something that somebody asked me the other day.
All Right, why is it that the Asian influence actually
seems to help baseball but the international influence doesn't help
the NBA? In fact, often you could argue hurts it.
I have a theory behind this. It's kind of one
(11:20):
of those think out loud, kind of think your way
through it. So Otani and Yoshi, there's no question he
help baseball. This international flair helps baseball. It does very little.
In fact, the international stars who are now MVPs in
(11:41):
five or six straight years don't translate necessarily. And so
I've thought about this. Can I throw this at you always?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Because baseball, like the NFL sells the team, they sell
the Cubs. My daughter goes to a Cubs game, doesn't go.
I want to go watch Kyle Tucker. She wants to
experience Wriggly and.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
She had time.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
She had a great time.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Undefeated, the Cubs very defeated undefeated.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, it's It's if somebody said this, if Wrigley was
in Europe, it would be like it would you would
go to it? Be like the Vatican. You've never been
to Wrigley. Oh, it's over in Belfast. You've got to go.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's like one of It's probably my favorite place in
the world. I love. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So baseball sells the team Yankees. Now players can help
a Rod in his prime to the Yankees sold out
Tuesday Wednesday games. Basketball is so player driven, the league
is so much about the star. Is that most European
players are not really interested coming over. So Basketball's insistence
(12:58):
to sell the star over the team going forward as
the game gets more global and international is hurting them.
With the ratings, Baseball sells the team now. They love Otani,
but it's not I mean Otani had a bad World Series.
The ratings didn't go down Otani. You know, if he's
not pitching, you see him infrequently at the plate. Is
(13:23):
that the NFL and baseball going forward have an advantage.
UFC has discovered this to a large degree. They need
another John Jones and Connor McGregor. UFC is great, but
they really the stars like boxing WWE. When Roman Reigns
didn't first hit. They're like, we need our whole Cogan,
(13:46):
we need our Andre the Giant, and that the international
basketball player has no interest in being a big personality,
and the NBA is always leaned into personality over brand.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, I think that there's I think listen, baseball definitely
sells the team. There's no question based on the team
so much that a pretty consistent like twenty year or
maybe one hundred year criticism of baseball has been why
don't you market your stars more? But you know they're
and they're like, we're doing okay. Like like I would
(14:17):
say about baseball, like you can have one hundred dollars
with one hundred dollars bill that's the NFL. Or you
could have one hundred dollars with fives and singles, and
that's baseball. Baseball is a booming, growing, huge business. They
just make it from we have a ton of inventory
that a ton of people care about in a ton
of places, and then it all adds up. Whereas Bucks
(14:41):
falcons fifteen million people watch right like and so like
that there's a huge difference in just the popularity of
the sports and how they make their money. The international
like and so the NBA obviously Bird and Magic rites
a little bit Doctor j But really since Burd and Magic,
it is been Wow. Stars grew the league's popularity exponentially.
(15:03):
Jordan takes it to a level that they never thought
of ever since then Star star, star, star star, And
I don't I think that's just the nature of the sport. Like,
I don't think that is something that will ever change.
I don't think basketball is dumb for or the NBA
is dumb for marketing at stars, because you can go
to a Dodgers game and see it's rare, but you
(15:25):
can see Otani go oh for four or get shelled
on the mound. You go to a Lakers game, Lebron's
putting up twenty seven, nine and eight, and like it's
it is a bankable box office thing.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
But college basketball yukon women's I turn it on because
of the brand Duke Basketball, regardless of players they're playing
them on. So in college basketball men's and women's I
watch brand. It's the NBA. I watch for the star.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, but in college the best players go play for
the brand, Whereas in the NBA, Lebron gets drafted to Cleveland,
Jannis gets drafted to Milwaukee. So like it, they become
the huge star in the NBA and then like the
psychoanalysis of an of a European player, not like Yannis
is in commercials. I happen to think Jannis is actually
(16:15):
I think of the European players, he is the best
at yes, you're talking, He's funny.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
He he's also been westernized. He now criticizes ownership. You know,
he's us now right right?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Well he I mean he gives incredible answers at press conferences. Yes,
like he really like thoughtful, he'll be critical to your point. Uh.
He's had funny social media moments where he seems like
relatable with his yes and other like with his kids
on the court. Like I actually think, yeah, but he's
(16:49):
not American and it's Milwaukee and not as many people
pay attention. But I do think if it was like
Yannis Jones and he played for the Bulls and he
went to Duke, Yeah, yeah, I do think that he
would be we'd be like, oh my god, you're honest.
He's going to carry the towards he's the most popular player.
So part of that's American, like just like American bias
(17:10):
that you know, team up. You know, it's just it's
just part I don't think it's anything. Part of it's
the European Star and part of it's just we root
for Team USA. We root for the US men's national
team and all of that. And listen, I'm a Team
USA basketball dork. Like they got issues coming up, like
(17:30):
they they they have to figure out some stuff because
the last Olympic team still got bailed out by Steph
and Lebron, I don't know, you know, Like and Lebron.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
And Steph had the podcast two weeks ago where they're like, Hey,
you're not gonna play in twenty eight, right, And Lebron
was like no, He's like are you And Steph's like
I don't think so. But like there's both be in
their mid forties and we're asking that question, like I
think Steph could probably still get buckets, So you know,
we have to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Like who is the guy? Is it gonna be Anthony Edwards?
Like is he going to be the face of American basketball?
Is it going to be Cooper Flagg? Is it who
is the next guy going to be? And this year
at the All Star Game, Adam Silver's doing the like
trying to channel the four Nations, you know, right, but
the Americans got two teams, Like if it was just
(18:24):
like eight Americans against eight international players, we'd get smoked,
smoked smoked. And so there's more American All Stars, which
is why there are two teams, but like the top
would get absolutely run off the court. So the personality
thing is definitely part of it, but also it's just
we need better American basketball players.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, I and I listen, I think the league's never
been more skilled. I mean, Charles Oakley couldn't play today.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It's that is a statement of fact, Like the league
has never been more skilled. I think it's the only
league where like Baseball is going to expand. It looks like, yeah,
you know, I'm like, eh, don't I don't know if
I don't know, like I get it for money, but
like I don't know that there's definitively enough talent.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You've already had two Triple A teams last year, the
A's and the White Sox, right.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Right, like the NBA, there's enough talent, Like there is
flatly enough basketball players. That question. You see it all
the time, like a team's like, oh man, we had
four guys get hurt and then someone you've never heard
of come in and drops fifty and you're like, what
like Like there is absolutely enough talent in the NBA
to grow the sport a couple more markets if and
(19:41):
when they want to.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
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this Christmas. So I've always been I've always been a
fan of Notre Dame. I appreciate their academic, rigorous standards.
I've put many I always had kind of a rule,
you know, if I were going to put on a
(21:54):
college kid where he went to school, matter, like Notre
Dame kids could come on and lecture you about physiology,
right like, So I always like Duke basketball dudes or
Notre Dame football dudes, or like, we're safe because I
generally don't put twenty four year olds on the air
because they get you know, intimidated, and they you know,
it's a big platform. Notre Dame was always like the exception,
(22:16):
you can put a Notre Dame guy on, I would,
you know, it's brilliant. People sometimes lack self awareness, maybe
they've been complimented, maybe things have come easy. I was
shocked by the lack of self awareness from an independent school, saying,
you know, we're just not getting the support of twenty
(22:37):
one year ACC member Miami, who, by the way, beat
us and I watched Pete Bavaqua, who by all accounts
has been a very good ad and I was shocked
they were toned after the fact that they lost head
to head and that, guys, the last time Notre Dame
one to Natty, they were twenty five independents. Even by
(22:59):
you said we're going to join a conference. I I'll
always root for Marcus Freeman. I think he's such a
good guy. He's kind of the face to meet of
the coaches of college football, Like if it was Nick
Saban for ten years, I think Marcus Freeman's one of
the faces. What did you make of their reaction from
we're not going to the bowl to this is outrageous
(23:19):
to we're being picked on as a semi member of
a conference.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts. First of all,
I too, like you grew up in Chicago. There's no
college sport of note, you know, and so my dad
and I used to like, he was just like, let's
go to big games like that. We just like going
to sporting events together. So we would go to one
Notre Dame game a year. My dad just Catholic kid,
(23:46):
poor southside of Milwaukee, Midwest, his whole life he's just
like he really respected the brand and so like showed
me Rudy at a young age. We'd go to games
every year. Notre Dame is as a it's an impressive place.
It's also a little smug like like like it just
it just is like, yeah, they're like, you know who
(24:08):
roots for our team. Jesus like like like seriously like
touchdown Jesus overlooks the stadium. And then you walk around
that campus and it's not the only like religious figure
statue that they have that's like doing. They're like and
that one looks like he's doing a first down signal,
doesn't it. And it's like like they they just kind
(24:29):
of carry themselves. And by the way, that's not totally
like oh, it's the Ohio State University. Like like my,
I guess my point is tone deafness in college sports
is not that's just the latest example. Like there a
is there there There is so much money and so
(24:49):
much arrogance and so much smugness. Uh, And Notre Dame
is at the top of the list and has been
for like if I would have told you five years ago, Colin,
in the future, there's going to be a university that
gets left out of a hypothetical playoff and instead of
going to a bowl game, they are going to cry
about it and take their ball and go home. You'd
be like Notre Dame, you know, like it's just kind
(25:13):
of and by the way, they like it, like duke basketball,
they kind of like it's part of their DNA to
be like a little smug and like we're a little
better than you. And so I wasn't surprised like you.
I was turned off by it. And this is one
I also know that you will disagree with me on.
I will add it to the list of things where
I just everyone says this is awesome for college football
(25:37):
the playoff because we get more games and it gets
decided on the field. And I know the ratings are huge,
and I know this makes me argue against more football.
So I know that this is I'm upstream without a
paddle here. But like Indiana beat Ohio State in football,
(25:57):
the ultimate basketball school beats the ultimate football school for
the Big Ten championship to become the number one team
in the country. And I watch your show every day
as I get ready to do my show. And that
made Herdline News and you you spent a lot of
time talking about how two loss ninth ranked Notre Dame
(26:22):
did they get snubbed for two loss tenth ranked Miami.
Who Miami beat? Now, to your credit, you argued, know
they're being ridiculous, but like, have we lost the plot
a little bit that we are focusing on the ninth
and tenth ranked team instead of the teams at the top.
(26:43):
To me, like it is just what is awesome about
college football? And there's many things, but I loved I
loved that the regular season in college football mattered even
more than the regular season in the NFL. Every game matter,
and last year, Ohio State Michigan, in my world, should
(27:06):
have been an elimination game for Ohio State because if
Michigan can beat Ohio State and Ohio State can fall
to eight and be the eight seed and then make
it to the tournament and win it, Okay, congrats for
your national championship. But then I personally care a little
less about Ohio State Michigan. I know that's sacrilege to say,
(27:30):
and I know that'll never be the case for Ohio
State fans, and I know it'll never be the case
for Michigan fans, But like if that's not an elimination
game in that spot, it objectively means less to the case,
to the casual person. And so it's like, I just
I felt like Indiana got lost in the shuffle and
I felt like people were debating things that a two
(27:51):
loss team didn't get a chance to be the ten
seed in the playoff. I'm not there yet in my
college football brain to care about that.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business. Yes, Whiskey Business,
brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey
of the Colin Coward Podcast. So from Little League all
the way to the English Premier League, the regular season
is simply preamble until the championship. You're arguing is I
(28:22):
want this one sport to really have a great regular season,
but the rest of it's sort of nonsense. It'll be nonsense.
The bowl games. We'll just end it with these arbitrary,
weird bowl games that nobody goes to. And my take
is in sports, we all know and it doesn't necessarily
take too much away from the regular season that we
(28:43):
sort of know. There's those great NBA regular season games
on Saturday night at Celtics Lakers Lebron and Jason Tatum
and I love those games. But in every sport, including
Little league eighth grade girls volleyball, there's a regular season
and then you decide in the playoffs, and all the
time in the regular season, an underdog beats a big person,
and the underdog that's the that's their moment in the sun.
(29:06):
My problem with bull college football was always we cared
too much about the regular season and then punted on
these weird, unattended ball games. So it was like, finally
Fox and the ESPN said, it's an eight billion dollar
industry with a lot. It's a movie with a horrible ending.
We just want to make the ending better to the movie.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, and again that is a that is what happened,
and I get that it was going to happen. Do
you think they're going to go to sixteen? Are they
going to go to thirty? Are they going to go
to thirty two.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I don't think they'll go to thirty two. I'm very
comfortable with twelve. I wouldn't put too lane in. I
don't buy into James Madison. I think that's just nonsense.
I just think it makes everybody feel good. It's a
neat story. It's not the truth. But fine, I'm not
going to lose any sleep in March badness. It works
because they're sixty eight teams.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I think it's the basketball can play a game on
a Thursday and then a game on a Saturday, right, right.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I would have rather. I would have rather seen Vanderbilt
in Texas. But I'm good. I'm fine with it. I
think people look at the Boise State teams, we like
Chris Peterson, where they had eleven NFL people, and they go, well,
they beat Oklahoma, and it's like, okay, that was that
team could have beaten anybody. It was Chris Peterson and
Boise State was an NFL factory. Yeah, so I I
(30:26):
college football is a little inartistic. It's very turbulent, it's weird,
but it's always felt like boxing where it's it's I
always say it's the Wild Wild West, like the territorial
governors you had in the Wild Wild West. Those are
the commissioners now everybody every every territory for itself, and
it's like, no, we need like a Dana White, like
(30:49):
we need a Roger Goodell. So I am willing to
be less engaged, although I'm not, but I'm willing to
care a little less about Auburn all, amma, if I
get a great ending to the movie.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And I think that that's totally reasonable. But like to
your point, like James Madison, Oregon is there. You know
they're three touchdown plus underdogs in that game and it's
a playoff game like that kind of feels like a
bowl game that I didn't care about what what what
once upon a time. And the bowl game. I mean,
my wife went to Clemson. She's like, Oh, they're playing
(31:25):
at Yankee Stadium. They're playing in the pin Stripe Bowl.
You gotta get us tickets to that. It's like okay,
like you know what, so so so we're so we're
gonna go see Clemson Penn State at Yankee Stadium and
it'll probably be sold out with all those fans there. So,
like I agree with you, the bowl games didn't matter.
I definitely agree that at the end this it feels
(31:46):
more like a true process to crown a champion. It's
undeniable that it's good TV and good business and it works.
I just I uh, the other thing that doesn't sit
great with me. And I've heard you address this and
like notre Dame is not going to play USC Oklahoma's
like Oklahoma can't play Oklahoma State anymore. There's just the
(32:08):
conferences are so big and there's not divisions anymore. So
even if you're in a conference, you don't get to
play everybody in your conference to tell me truly who
was the best. Like, it's just because we have to
get into this conference to have a better shot at
a playoff, to get a better shot at a bid,
to get a bigger It's just college football is messy
(32:29):
and regional and rivalry and irrational. Like I want Oklahoma
to play Oklahoma State. I want Kansas to play Missouri.
I want, like, I want that stuff to matter for
that sport, and I'll get there, but I don't. I
don't love that this stuff has led to that stuff ending. Yeah,
and it's it's been very quick and very quick. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
It's like it's like I've, I've. It's not perfectly analogous,
but it's like AI or the pandemic the world changed overnight.
Job displacement wear a mask. College football in a year
went from paying a players to death penalty to celebrating
it and marketing it and bidding wars over a junior
high school. It's like, WHOA, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And USC has to play Rutgers in volleyball, and like
USC plays Rutgers but not Notre Dame. I'm like, are
you sure? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Are you positive? That's what we want? Like it just
and you're and you're right, Like it all changed real fast,
and it's real fast. I still you've got me right,
like like I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Not your issue, Like I'm gonna watch big games, I'm
gonna gamble on it. I understand the business side of it.
And I am entertained still obviously by any football game
that you put on television with a point spread. But
it's just like, I don't know, it's it's it's a
lot fast, and I'm very interested where the dust settles
in a decade and how this is all gonna settle
(33:57):
into it.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
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(34:19):
was looking over the topics they gave us today. Here's
one that's really interesting to me. So certainly I understood
the Tim Tebow fascination because he was winning all the
time and there was a Christianity connection. Yeah, the Chador
(34:40):
thing is weird because he came from a small program,
didn't win a ton in college. There was no religious connection.
And I said, he reminds me of LaMelo Ball. He's
the first quarterback influencer where he's really popular in places
I don't go. I go to TV, popular on ig
(35:01):
or maybe Snapchat or all this stuff. And I think
that Dylan gabriel early success is very explainable. Dylan Gabriel
played so many college games. He was more ready than Shadure.
He also played in more of a pro system at
Oregon with pro players instead of Colorado. So Dylan Gabriel
(35:22):
played so many college games. When he walked into that
camp for the Browns to fancy, he's like, Oh, this
kid's unbelievable. On the whiteboard, he's unbelievable. But over the
course of time, Shouder's talents greater, which I've always argued,
And over the course of time Shadur ramped up, got
a lot of practices and everybody went, that's the better guy.
So I don't think there was anything other than more
experienced college guy from a greater NFL ready program had
(35:46):
a clear advantage to start, but eventually talent wins. But
through it all, what we aren't talking about is Shadur
does appear to be better than everybody in the NFL
fought because he was a fifth round quarterback, and Greg
Cosell came on my show this week and went, yeah,
the film said he was excellent and lost in all
(36:08):
of this is the most important position in the sport.
And because people didn't like some vibes, there's a franchise
quarterback in Cleveland and he'll be free for the next
four years.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
To me, that's unbelievable. I have all the respect in
the world for Greg Cosel. I watched every throw that
he had against Tennessee, and he was great. I thought
that he made some really impressive throws. I thought the
the throw to in Djoku for the touchdown, I thought, yes.
I thought the throw to Fanin for the two point conversion,
(36:46):
I thought. I thought he dumped it off some where
it felt like he felt pressure and had pretty good
just like awareness around him. I thought there was a
lot of impressive things in that game against Tennessee. I
still think it's a little soon to say that he
is a franchise quarterback for not beating the Titans, Like
(37:07):
it's just like he didn't be getting a little excited.
He didn't beat the worst team in the league, and
now you've got him his Cleveland starter for the next
four years. I think that's a little premature because the
game where he came in off the bench against Baltimore,
he looked not like an NFL player. The game against
his only road game this year is against the Raiders,
(37:30):
maybe the easiest spot to have a road game other
than Tennessee, and he was eleven for twenty for two
hundred yards, and he had a sixty six yard touchdown,
but sixty five of that was yack. It was a
dump off swing pass where the Raiders just didn't tackle.
And the Niners game, he was not good. And so like,
(37:52):
let's see because the Bears defense is not very good,
but they lead the league in takeaways.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
But he's gonna say and also, the Bears have a
stack roster like Denver does. Shador has a bad roster
and he's being very productive with a terrible receiving corps,
like really bad receiving corps.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yes, and and a coach who seemingly doesn't like him,
and so like like, yeah, I I Shador has been
better than I thought he was going to be, But like,
can we see how he plays when it's gonna be
five degrees below zero on the windshield against the number
one takeaway defense in the NFL? Like, I just it's
it's a little early for me to say that if
(38:29):
Cleveland has a top three pick, they're not taking a quarterback,
and if they I.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Would take Mendoza over him and.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Cheap, But then he's not a cheap franchise quarterback for
the next four years. Like if he doesn't play another
game for Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Well, that's what I'm saying. I don't think they're gonna
get to Mendoza. I think Cleveland's too talent. They're gonna
win another game. I would take Mendoza over him. That's
not saying he's not a franchise quarterback. Mendoza, I think
is a pro bowler very quickly.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, and listen, Schadeur, I cannot imagine because think about
what NFL teams have overlooked like how because thirty two
teams passed on him at least four times and some
teams like five or six times.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
And he is the most accurate college.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Quarterback ever and his father is one of the greatest
athletes this country has ever produced. Top five right, So, like,
I don't believe it was a conspiracy. I think there
was real red flags there, and I just I want
to I need to like actions, right, the NFL's action
(39:43):
said Shador Sanders is not an NFL quarterback. His actions
against Tennessee are saying no, no, no, no. I absolutely am
so Now I think it's actually interesting. I think that
prior to this, a lot of people were acting completely
foolish and it was like they weren't wanting to confirm
their confirmation bias of how they felt about him going
(40:05):
into the draft, and like you know, mel Kiper on
Draft night, I think shifted shaped a lot of narratives
and fame and people are tight with Dion and I
think there's a lot of factors at play here. But
I will admit, like now it's interesting, like now now
it did now to me. Now it is all right,
show what you can do. And I can't wait for
(40:27):
to explain it, but like next year, Deshaun Watson's on
that roster. No, gross, I agree with you. But the
owner of the Browns was at Deshaun Watson's wedding this offseason,
I know, and executed the worst trade in NFL history
and gave him a contract that apparently made him a
(40:50):
pariah among all of his billionaire friends because they were
all pissed that he gave him a fully guaranteed deal.
I'm thinking he might be a little invested in that
working out too, like it. So there's going to be
Shanur will have to be great the rest of this
year for him to enter next year not in a
quarterback competition with a two hundred and thirty million dollar
(41:12):
guaranteed quarterback and another draft pick, maybe not a first
round pick, maybe not a top five pick. But I
think he's going to have to be great to not
be in a serious quarterback competition next year.
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look at year two, Josh Allen and Caleb Williams, Yeah,
(43:12):
numbers are they're literally the same.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Oh I've I've looked. It might be my screensaver.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
So Josh Allen did get better and I think Caleb
will overlooked In all of this is Buffalo has the
worst receiving core in the league right now, and Josh
is throwing to tight ends much easier throw. So his
completion percentage now is like, oh, look at Drew Brees.
Look at six six Drew Brees. No, Josh is still
(43:43):
a playmaker. He's probably closer to a sixty five sixty
six percent if he was throwing the ball down the field, which,
by the way, Mahomes is to a Rice or Xavier Worthy.
He's throwing to tight ends because Kincaid.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Hawes Yeah knocks, yeah knocks.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
That's I mean last week gave Davis, who they brought back,
had two catches. That was their go to. So I
think lost in Caleb Williams or under discussed. Not lost
is the fact that he may have made two of
the best throws of the season last week.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, the one is the keyst and the one that comment, yeah,
I mean ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
The one in the end zone is you. It's almost
an optical illusion when you watch it in real time.
If you watch it again in full speed, it doesn't
make sense. So he got there.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I was watching it. I was watching it with Nick,
and I was like, tell me if I'm being a
prisoner of the moment. But like he has the best
arm in the NFL. I think he does right. Like
it's it's it doesn't obviously that doesn't mean you're the
best it. Throwing it hard is not. But like like
to throw with velocity and accuracy on the move like
(44:52):
that is just It's just it's preposterous. It's it's it's
it's it's him, Josh Allen. It's it's a short list
of guys.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
So I guess this is my point. I think he's
a shorter Josh Allen. I think that's just camp. I
think he's a six to one Josh Allen. Everybody's like, well,
what is this? Everybody has comp and I'm like, I
said it today on the Herd, I'm like, he has
comp is Josh Allen Like there is no ceiling for him?
If I told you best arm never gets hurt those
(45:22):
very few interceptions. By the way, probably the best runner
right now in the league at quarterback now that Lamar
has scaled back, it's either Josh Allen or Caleb. And
you think this sounds crazy. I think Caleb is a
shorter Josh Allen.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
I really do so. I still think I still think
it's Aaron Rodgers. I just the the shorter Josh Allen
is just gonna be tough for me because so much
of what Josh Allen does is like he's a polar bear,
like you know what I mean, He's people bounce off
him like Ben Roethlisberger. Uh, he will truck people, not
(46:01):
that Caleb's not willing the truck people he has like
he because he's Caleb's six' one, but he's strong, like
he's like six one two thirty five, like he's he's pretty,
he's pretty beefy to thirty whatever it is. But like
Rogers was six two and Caleb maybe this is also
just following everything the guy said since he's been a
(46:21):
pro bla, like he's modeled his game after Rogers. Rogers
is his favorite player ever and what to me, one
of the greatest quarterback seasons, Like I'm like the short
list in NFL history is Rogers's twenty eleven season when
he had forty five touchdowns and six picks, because if
(46:42):
you look at that season, it was like it wasn't
a Brady surgical I'm just never throwing a risky play
and we're gonna have ten twelve fourteen play drives. It
was like he's top three in yards per attemp. Like
he was chucking the ball down the field and making
(47:04):
big throws but also not turning it over like they
were like deep ball throws that weren't risky. It was
it's crazy stuff, and I think that's what Caleb can
be like when he really dials it in, he wants
to use that arm and throw it all over the place,
and but he doesn't throw picks, and so that is
(47:25):
I still think the absolute ceiling is the downfield aggressive
assassin who doesn't turn the ball over and his mobility
and escapability is crazy because like Josh Allen can run,
but he's not like pureuetting out of you know, like
(47:47):
like Caleb Williams looks like I want Chicago to nickname
him the one, Like he looks like Neo in the matrix.
He's like dodging bullets. He was sat sixty eight times
last year, and people said I was a homer for
this opinion, but I stand by it. I actually thought
he had a pretty good pocket presence last time. Like
(48:10):
it's an insane thing to say for a guy who
took had a top five sacks season in NFL history.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Well, Ben Johnson, first thing he did, Jonah Jackson drew
Dolmand Joe Tooney. It wasn't Caleb. It was the line.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, and and like it was and he was he
was trying to make plays like it wasn't like he
was dropping back to pass and getting blindsided and he
didn't see it coming. It was like the team sucks.
It's a ten game losing streak. I have three play callers,
my rookie year. Guys are dropping like flies all around
(48:44):
me and I'm trying to make plays and he would
get he would get sack. Now, some of it was
on him. He held the ball too long. I think
that's the number that I think. It was on a
Monday night football broadcast, and it blew my mind. He
took like twenty eight sacks last year where he held
the ball for five more seconds. That should be impossible.
I don't think Peyton Manning did it in his career,
(49:05):
and so like he he's definitely learned and Ben Johnson
has helped him. But he is an escape artist back there,
and sometimes it'll lead to a sack that was seventeen
yards instead of eight yards like you know sometimes, but
he's really cut down on that this year. The completion
percentage is way too low. He he doesn't seem to
(49:27):
see it quite quick enough. Like the throw he missed
to comment was open. He just he saw it late
and underthrew it. Terrible combination and it was a game
ending interception. But like I am convinced that there is
a superstar there and that there is an MVP there,
and I think Ben Johnson's going to get there. I
think we've seen it before, like the Mahomes. It was
(49:50):
his first year starting, which made it so special, but
it was his second year and Andy Reid's system, like
we've seen the even if it's third year in the league,
but it's the second year in the system. Like second
year in the system is when you can have the
mastery of it. I think Caleb is going to be
a very trendy MVP pick next year. I think he's
(50:11):
going to have a monster season next year with Ben Johnson,
and then we'll see what that means for the rest
of this year.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Danny Parkins First things first, the volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Netflix is
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Then at four point thirty you've got the Lions struggling
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(00:25):
must win for Detroit. So watching holiday football is a tradition.
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The NFL Christmas Day games live on Netflix starting at
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settle in and watch NFL live on Netflix Christmas Day
starting at one pm Eastern time. So Danny Parkins is
(00:52):
joining me. You know, I'm from First Things First. And
if our camera angle looks a little weird this week,
it's a long story, but you're gonna have to deal
with it. Well that's just technicoh to you, that's finest.
So I had this rant today on my show, and
this has been a pretty consistent thing for thirty years
in the business that there is no even so, just
(01:15):
own dynasties. They're coming and they're going to come in
different forms. When the Lakers dominated forever, it wasn't that
they always paid the most. It's because Jerry Buss was
cool and the Laker girls were cool, and the weather
in the winter in a winter league was great, and
so people liked playing there. And then pat Riley went
to the Miami Heat and he sold the same thing.
(01:35):
Miami's cool. Miami's got perfect winter weather. So they won
on weather cool, not the most money. Duke basketball won
on resume and Mike Krzyzewski and il By the way,
now Indiana football's got better financing than most of the country.
Is it unfair? There is no even so. Oklahoma City
(01:57):
is not only twenty four and one, but analytically the
best defensive team ever they are. I mean, they're blowing
people out for two years now. The playoffs are different, right,
but they're going to have three first round picks this
year and could win the lottery, could have the number
one pick. And if you look at their egoists roster,
their coach, their GM, their bench, which is maybe the
deepest ever. They could have a five year run. Their
(02:18):
advantage has simply been they're smarter, they're more efficient, and
the new CBA, I would argue, is more putative to
ineffective gms. It punishes them more. I'll throw one more
stat at you. In nineteen eighty nine, the richest people
in the world had one point three trillion dollars. They
now have seventeen times that. Okay, seven different presidents. The
(02:38):
point is you can't legislate fair or even even socialism
doesn't perfectly work, and that when I look at OKC
and I look at the Dodgers, at least the Dodgers
are an interesting dynasty. At least they're doing it. Money
is their advantage and deferring payments. But it's watchable, okay,
seed to analytics, it's terribly boring. And that Adam Silver
(03:01):
wants everybody he wants parody, and I think it's idealistic
when the truth is you can't stop dynasties in golf, tennis,
skiing women's basketball. It doesn't matter. It's gender free.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And that.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Baseball and the NBA should both both should embrace the
money aspect. Players want to play in certain cities people
want to live in certain cities. They don't want to
live in Kansas City. They want to live in New York,
in LA and Boston and Chicago. And so when I
(03:38):
watch Oklahoma City's dominant dominance, I say, well, at least
the Dodgers dynasty. You just don't like that. It's money.
At least it's captivating, at least it's interesting. So I
know you don't agree with that I laid out my
but my take is the NBA, of all the pro leagues,
everything is going up. Nil has made the reter richer. Right,
everything's going up. Basketball is not because got parody and
(04:03):
nobody really truly wants parody, nor is it good for
the business model.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, I don't know if we're dealing with a little
bit of causation correlation there. Like you think that basketball's
ratings are not going up because of of parody. I
think ratings were up in Kansas City for the Royals
when they were good. They were down when they were
(04:28):
down when they're bad. Generally speaking, Like, my guess is
the Oklahoma City Thunder's local ratings are very good. Great,
that would be my guess, right, And so like, do
the Thunder have a fan base that is national or international.
Obviously not. So if a dynasty, because of Sam Presty's genius,
(04:53):
happens to take place in Oklahoma City, will that have
the appeal for basketball that a dynasty in LA and
the Dodgers, one of the most famous brands in all
of global sports has for baseball. Of course not. But
like if it was flipped and the analytically brilliant thing
that you called boring in basketball happened to be occurring
(05:17):
for the Bulls or the Celtics or the next my
guess is the ratings would be up. And if the
thing that the team that like happened to have the
best local TV deal in baseball was a small market
brand that people didn't care about, I don't think the
ratings would be up that way. Like I think it's
I think it's the Dodgers that is. It's captivating because
(05:40):
it's the Dodgers, and it's boring quote unquote to people
because it's Oklahoma City. Not necessarily because dynasty. I agree
with you, Dynasties generally speaking drive interest, like yeah, the Patriots,
the Chiefs, the Warriors, the Dodgers like, but the Spurs
when they were a dynasty weren't slaying it in national
(06:00):
TV ratings because it was San Antonio. So I don't
I don't know that I agree that. I think it's
like dynasty and brand drives ratings, unless in football, where
everything rates. Right, Yeah, so I guess, I guess basketball
and baseball, I do think it's more brand dependent.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Well, I think, I guess. My My ultimate point is
stop worrying about tanking and stop worrying about dynasties. Players
want to play where they want to play. There's too
many franchises, there's greed all over sports from the ownership position,
and I think we worry way too much about, you know, tanking.
The NBA has become to me kind of fear based
(06:43):
on this, Like they want to tell you it's a
player first league, but then they limit where players can go.
Whoever drafts them, whatever, you know, morbid, boring, bad team
drafts them. You are punished forever wanting go play where
you'd want to live in the winter, You're punished, right
(07:04):
like a Sacramento No player wants to live in Sacramento.
Most don't want to live in Salt Lake City. But
you're punished economically if you're going like I'm gonna go
live in Miami or I'm gonna go live in where Chicago.
You're punished.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
But if they didn't have those rules, yeah, is there
any way for Milwaukee and Oklahoma City to win?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, Oklahoma City's doing it now well.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
But but no, but they had any But they had
an advantage for Shay to re sign. Shae was in.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
He's a he's a low ego, low publicity star. He
doesn't care like he's a guy that would be like, yeah,
I can make a little bit more money here, but
it's so swayed. You can make so much more if
you stay that what young man who grew up with
average means is going to turn down two hundred million dollars,
(07:54):
So you actually become a prisoner of where you get drafted.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Listen, if we want to have a conversation about like
drafts in general not being great for like labor in
the workforce, I think that applies to all of the sports. Right,
Like like my my brother in law graduates from Purdue
Computer Engineering and he had offers from different places, right,
(08:18):
and he could choose, and he got to choose, and
he chose very he chose. Well, like you know, the
kid works in Nvidia, and like it's gone well for him,
Like could could have could have ended up at Hewlett
Packard would have been fine, but the dividend wouldn't be
as good. But so yeah, like he had options, he
wasn't drafted to in Vidia. He chose in Vidio, right,
(08:38):
So I obviously agree that that is anti capitalistic on
American all of those things, but I don't think that.
I do think that sports would in general, Like we
can talk specific Dodgers, specific Thunder specific any point in time,
I do think they in general would be less interesting
(09:00):
if the Lakers and the Heat won every NBA Championship,
the Dodgers and the Yankees won every World Series, and
you know, on and on down the line, if only
the big cities and only the big brands ever won,
I do think it would be less interesting. We do
like David and Goliath. It is a pretty popular narrative
(09:20):
that's built. And like I also would say like Yannis's
title in Milwaukee as just a basketball fan, and again,
I'm watching all of them, right, I'm watching all of them.
I would argue that Yannis, like not all titles are
created equal. I think we've talked about this like in
terms of how I view them, Like Katie hates this argument,
(09:42):
but I will contend that it is fair and logical.
His titles plural in Golden State are not as impressive
as Yannis's singular title in Milwaukee because Katie, because the
cap spiked in an abnormal and he joins a seventy
three win team that are that won before him and
(10:04):
one after him. It's like, congratulations, they had an owner
who was willing to pay the tax, and you know,
it was esthetically pleasing basketball and probably the best team
in the history of the sport. Very cool. But Yannis,
fifteenth overall pick, skinny kid from Greece, goes to Milwaukee,
signs three contract extensions with team that drafts him. They
(10:27):
build a new arena because of his popularity, and he
has one of the great close out NBA Finals performances
in the history of the sport. To bring one title
to Milwaukee, to me, that is more like of a
legendary title than Katie's titles plural in Golden State. And
I don't know, I think that's kind of related to
what you're talking about. I don't want to live in
(10:47):
a sports world where Yannis's title doesn't happen. I'm fine
with Golden State having the dynasty, but I want Jokic
to get his one. I want Yannis to get his one,
like I want both to exist.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Here's a something that somebody asked me the other day.
All Right, why is it that the Asian influence actually
seems to help baseball but the international influence doesn't help
the NBA? In fact, often you could argue hurts it.
I have a theory behind this. It's kind of one
(11:20):
of those think out loud, kind of think your way
through it. So Otani and Yoshi, there's no question he
help baseball. This international flair helps baseball. It does very little.
In fact, the international stars who are now MVPs in
(11:41):
five or six straight years don't translate necessarily. And so
I've thought about this. Can I throw this at you always?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Because baseball, like the NFL sells the team, they sell
the Cubs. My daughter goes to a Cubs game, doesn't go.
I want to go watch Kyle Tucker. She wants to
experience Wriggly and.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
She had time.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
She had a great time.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Undefeated, the Cubs very defeated undefeated.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, it's It's if somebody said this, if Wrigley was
in Europe, it would be like it would you would
go to it? Be like the Vatican. You've never been
to Wrigley. Oh, it's over in Belfast. You've got to go.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's like one of It's probably my favorite place in
the world. I love. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So baseball sells the team Yankees. Now players can help
a Rod in his prime to the Yankees sold out
Tuesday Wednesday games. Basketball is so player driven, the league
is so much about the star. Is that most European
players are not really interested coming over. So Basketball's insistence
(12:58):
to sell the star over the team going forward as
the game gets more global and international is hurting them.
With the ratings, Baseball sells the team now. They love Otani,
but it's not I mean Otani had a bad World Series.
The ratings didn't go down Otani. You know, if he's
not pitching, you see him infrequently at the plate. Is
(13:23):
that the NFL and baseball going forward have an advantage.
UFC has discovered this to a large degree. They need
another John Jones and Connor McGregor. UFC is great, but
they really the stars like boxing WWE. When Roman Reigns
didn't first hit. They're like, we need our whole Cogan,
(13:46):
we need our Andre the Giant, and that the international
basketball player has no interest in being a big personality,
and the NBA is always leaned into personality over brand.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, I think that there's I think listen, baseball definitely
sells the team. There's no question based on the team
so much that a pretty consistent like twenty year or
maybe one hundred year criticism of baseball has been why
don't you market your stars more? But you know they're
and they're like, we're doing okay. Like like I would
(14:17):
say about baseball, like you can have one hundred dollars
with one hundred dollars bill that's the NFL. Or you
could have one hundred dollars with fives and singles, and
that's baseball. Baseball is a booming, growing, huge business. They
just make it from we have a ton of inventory
that a ton of people care about in a ton
of places, and then it all adds up. Whereas Bucks
(14:41):
falcons fifteen million people watch right like and so like
that there's a huge difference in just the popularity of
the sports and how they make their money. The international
like and so the NBA obviously Bird and Magic rites
a little bit Doctor j But really since Burd and Magic,
it is been Wow. Stars grew the league's popularity exponentially.
(15:03):
Jordan takes it to a level that they never thought
of ever since then Star star, star, star star, And
I don't I think that's just the nature of the sport. Like,
I don't think that is something that will ever change.
I don't think basketball is dumb for or the NBA
is dumb for marketing at stars, because you can go
to a Dodgers game and see it's rare, but you
(15:25):
can see Otani go oh for four or get shelled
on the mound. You go to a Lakers game, Lebron's
putting up twenty seven, nine and eight, and like it's
it is a bankable box office thing.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
But college basketball yukon women's I turn it on because
of the brand Duke Basketball, regardless of players they're playing
them on. So in college basketball men's and women's I
watch brand. It's the NBA. I watch for the star.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, but in college the best players go play for
the brand, Whereas in the NBA, Lebron gets drafted to Cleveland,
Jannis gets drafted to Milwaukee. So like it, they become
the huge star in the NBA and then like the
psychoanalysis of an of a European player, not like Yannis
is in commercials. I happen to think Jannis is actually
(16:15):
I think of the European players, he is the best
at yes, you're talking, He's funny.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
He he's also been westernized. He now criticizes ownership. You know,
he's us now right right?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Well he I mean he gives incredible answers at press conferences. Yes,
like he really like thoughtful, he'll be critical to your point. Uh.
He's had funny social media moments where he seems like
relatable with his yes and other like with his kids
on the court. Like I actually think, yeah, but he's
(16:49):
not American and it's Milwaukee and not as many people
pay attention. But I do think if it was like
Yannis Jones and he played for the Bulls and he
went to Duke, Yeah, yeah, I do think that he
would be we'd be like, oh my god, you're honest.
He's going to carry the towards he's the most popular player.
So part of that's American, like just like American bias
(17:10):
that you know, team up. You know, it's just it's
just part I don't think it's anything. Part of it's
the European Star and part of it's just we root
for Team USA. We root for the US men's national
team and all of that. And listen, I'm a Team
USA basketball dork. Like they got issues coming up, like
(17:30):
they they they have to figure out some stuff because
the last Olympic team still got bailed out by Steph
and Lebron, I don't know, you know, Like and Lebron.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
And Steph had the podcast two weeks ago where they're like, Hey,
you're not gonna play in twenty eight, right, And Lebron
was like no, He's like are you And Steph's like
I don't think so. But like there's both be in
their mid forties and we're asking that question, like I
think Steph could probably still get buckets, So you know,
we have to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Like who is the guy? Is it gonna be Anthony Edwards?
Like is he going to be the face of American basketball?
Is it going to be Cooper Flagg? Is it who
is the next guy going to be? And this year
at the All Star Game, Adam Silver's doing the like
trying to channel the four Nations, you know, right, but
the Americans got two teams, Like if it was just
(18:24):
like eight Americans against eight international players, we'd get smoked,
smoked smoked. And so there's more American All Stars, which
is why there are two teams, but like the top
would get absolutely run off the court. So the personality
thing is definitely part of it, but also it's just
we need better American basketball players.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, I and I listen, I think the league's never
been more skilled. I mean, Charles Oakley couldn't play today.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It's that is a statement of fact, Like the league
has never been more skilled. I think it's the only
league where like Baseball is going to expand. It looks like, yeah,
you know, I'm like, eh, don't I don't know if
I don't know, like I get it for money, but
like I don't know that there's definitively enough talent.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You've already had two Triple A teams last year, the
A's and the White Sox, right.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Right, like the NBA, there's enough talent, Like there is
flatly enough basketball players. That question. You see it all
the time, like a team's like, oh man, we had
four guys get hurt and then someone you've never heard
of come in and drops fifty and you're like, what
like Like there is absolutely enough talent in the NBA
to grow the sport a couple more markets if and
(19:41):
when they want to.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
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this Christmas. So I've always been I've always been a
fan of Notre Dame. I appreciate their academic, rigorous standards.
I've put many I always had kind of a rule,
you know, if I were going to put on a
(21:54):
college kid where he went to school, matter, like Notre
Dame kids could come on and lecture you about physiology,
right like, So I always like Duke basketball dudes or
Notre Dame football dudes, or like, we're safe because I
generally don't put twenty four year olds on the air
because they get you know, intimidated, and they you know,
it's a big platform. Notre Dame was always like the exception,
(22:16):
you can put a Notre Dame guy on, I would,
you know, it's brilliant. People sometimes lack self awareness, maybe
they've been complimented, maybe things have come easy. I was
shocked by the lack of self awareness from an independent school, saying,
you know, we're just not getting the support of twenty
(22:37):
one year ACC member Miami, who, by the way, beat
us and I watched Pete Bavaqua, who by all accounts
has been a very good ad and I was shocked
they were toned after the fact that they lost head
to head and that, guys, the last time Notre Dame
one to Natty, they were twenty five independents. Even by
(22:59):
you said we're going to join a conference. I I'll
always root for Marcus Freeman. I think he's such a
good guy. He's kind of the face to meet of
the coaches of college football, Like if it was Nick
Saban for ten years, I think Marcus Freeman's one of
the faces. What did you make of their reaction from
we're not going to the bowl to this is outrageous
(23:19):
to we're being picked on as a semi member of
a conference.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts. First of all,
I too, like you grew up in Chicago. There's no
college sport of note, you know, and so my dad
and I used to like, he was just like, let's
go to big games like that. We just like going
to sporting events together. So we would go to one
Notre Dame game a year. My dad just Catholic kid,
(23:46):
poor southside of Milwaukee, Midwest, his whole life he's just
like he really respected the brand and so like showed
me Rudy at a young age. We'd go to games
every year. Notre Dame is as a it's an impressive place.
It's also a little smug like like like it just
it just is like, yeah, they're like, you know who
(24:08):
roots for our team. Jesus like like like seriously like
touchdown Jesus overlooks the stadium. And then you walk around
that campus and it's not the only like religious figure
statue that they have that's like doing. They're like and
that one looks like he's doing a first down signal,
doesn't it. And it's like like they they just kind
(24:29):
of carry themselves. And by the way, that's not totally
like oh, it's the Ohio State University. Like like my,
I guess my point is tone deafness in college sports
is not that's just the latest example. Like there a
is there there There is so much money and so
(24:49):
much arrogance and so much smugness. Uh, And Notre Dame
is at the top of the list and has been
for like if I would have told you five years ago, Colin,
in the future, there's going to be a university that
gets left out of a hypothetical playoff and instead of
going to a bowl game, they are going to cry
about it and take their ball and go home. You'd
be like Notre Dame, you know, like it's just kind
(25:13):
of and by the way, they like it, like duke basketball,
they kind of like it's part of their DNA to
be like a little smug and like we're a little
better than you. And so I wasn't surprised like you.
I was turned off by it. And this is one
I also know that you will disagree with me on.
I will add it to the list of things where
I just everyone says this is awesome for college football
(25:37):
the playoff because we get more games and it gets
decided on the field. And I know the ratings are huge,
and I know this makes me argue against more football.
So I know that this is I'm upstream without a
paddle here. But like Indiana beat Ohio State in football,
(25:57):
the ultimate basketball school beats the ultimate football school for
the Big Ten championship to become the number one team
in the country. And I watch your show every day
as I get ready to do my show. And that
made Herdline News and you you spent a lot of
time talking about how two loss ninth ranked Notre Dame
(26:22):
did they get snubbed for two loss tenth ranked Miami.
Who Miami beat? Now, to your credit, you argued, know
they're being ridiculous, but like, have we lost the plot
a little bit that we are focusing on the ninth
and tenth ranked team instead of the teams at the top.
(26:43):
To me, like it is just what is awesome about
college football? And there's many things, but I loved I
loved that the regular season in college football mattered even
more than the regular season in the NFL. Every game matter,
and last year, Ohio State Michigan, in my world, should
(27:06):
have been an elimination game for Ohio State because if
Michigan can beat Ohio State and Ohio State can fall
to eight and be the eight seed and then make
it to the tournament and win it, Okay, congrats for
your national championship. But then I personally care a little
less about Ohio State Michigan. I know that's sacrilege to say,
(27:30):
and I know that'll never be the case for Ohio
State fans, and I know it'll never be the case
for Michigan fans, But like if that's not an elimination
game in that spot, it objectively means less to the case,
to the casual person. And so it's like, I just
I felt like Indiana got lost in the shuffle and
I felt like people were debating things that a two
(27:51):
loss team didn't get a chance to be the ten
seed in the playoff. I'm not there yet in my
college football brain to care about that.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business. Yes, Whiskey Business,
brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey
of the Colin Coward Podcast. So from Little League all
the way to the English Premier League, the regular season
is simply preamble until the championship. You're arguing is I
(28:22):
want this one sport to really have a great regular season,
but the rest of it's sort of nonsense. It'll be nonsense.
The bowl games. We'll just end it with these arbitrary,
weird bowl games that nobody goes to. And my take
is in sports, we all know and it doesn't necessarily
take too much away from the regular season that we
(28:43):
sort of know. There's those great NBA regular season games
on Saturday night at Celtics Lakers Lebron and Jason Tatum
and I love those games. But in every sport, including
Little league eighth grade girls volleyball, there's a regular season
and then you decide in the playoffs, and all the
time in the regular season, an underdog beats a big person,
and the underdog that's the that's their moment in the sun.
(29:06):
My problem with bull college football was always we cared
too much about the regular season and then punted on
these weird, unattended ball games. So it was like, finally
Fox and the ESPN said, it's an eight billion dollar
industry with a lot. It's a movie with a horrible ending.
We just want to make the ending better to the movie.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, and again that is a that is what happened,
and I get that it was going to happen. Do
you think they're going to go to sixteen? Are they
going to go to thirty? Are they going to go
to thirty two.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I don't think they'll go to thirty two. I'm very
comfortable with twelve. I wouldn't put too lane in. I
don't buy into James Madison. I think that's just nonsense.
I just think it makes everybody feel good. It's a
neat story. It's not the truth. But fine, I'm not
going to lose any sleep in March badness. It works
because they're sixty eight teams.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I think it's the basketball can play a game on
a Thursday and then a game on a Saturday, right, right.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I would have rather. I would have rather seen Vanderbilt
in Texas. But I'm good. I'm fine with it. I
think people look at the Boise State teams, we like
Chris Peterson, where they had eleven NFL people, and they go, well,
they beat Oklahoma, and it's like, okay, that was that
team could have beaten anybody. It was Chris Peterson and
Boise State was an NFL factory. Yeah, so I I
(30:26):
college football is a little inartistic. It's very turbulent, it's weird,
but it's always felt like boxing where it's it's I
always say it's the Wild Wild West, like the territorial
governors you had in the Wild Wild West. Those are
the commissioners now everybody every every territory for itself, and
it's like, no, we need like a Dana White, like
(30:49):
we need a Roger Goodell. So I am willing to
be less engaged, although I'm not, but I'm willing to
care a little less about Auburn all, amma, if I
get a great ending to the movie.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And I think that that's totally reasonable. But like to
your point, like James Madison, Oregon is there. You know
they're three touchdown plus underdogs in that game and it's
a playoff game like that kind of feels like a
bowl game that I didn't care about what what what
once upon a time. And the bowl game. I mean,
my wife went to Clemson. She's like, Oh, they're playing
(31:25):
at Yankee Stadium. They're playing in the pin Stripe Bowl.
You gotta get us tickets to that. It's like okay,
like you know what, so so so we're so we're
gonna go see Clemson Penn State at Yankee Stadium and
it'll probably be sold out with all those fans there. So,
like I agree with you, the bowl games didn't matter.
I definitely agree that at the end this it feels
(31:46):
more like a true process to crown a champion. It's
undeniable that it's good TV and good business and it works.
I just I uh, the other thing that doesn't sit
great with me. And I've heard you address this and
like notre Dame is not going to play USC Oklahoma's
like Oklahoma can't play Oklahoma State anymore. There's just the
(32:08):
conferences are so big and there's not divisions anymore. So
even if you're in a conference, you don't get to
play everybody in your conference to tell me truly who
was the best. Like, it's just because we have to
get into this conference to have a better shot at
a playoff, to get a better shot at a bid,
to get a bigger It's just college football is messy
(32:29):
and regional and rivalry and irrational. Like I want Oklahoma
to play Oklahoma State. I want Kansas to play Missouri.
I want, like, I want that stuff to matter for
that sport, and I'll get there, but I don't. I
don't love that this stuff has led to that stuff ending. Yeah,
and it's it's been very quick and very quick. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
It's like it's like I've, I've. It's not perfectly analogous,
but it's like AI or the pandemic the world changed overnight.
Job displacement wear a mask. College football in a year
went from paying a players to death penalty to celebrating
it and marketing it and bidding wars over a junior
high school. It's like, WHOA, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And USC has to play Rutgers in volleyball, and like
USC plays Rutgers but not Notre Dame. I'm like, are
you sure? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Are you positive? That's what we want? Like it just
and you're and you're right, Like it all changed real fast,
and it's real fast. I still you've got me right,
like like I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Not your issue, Like I'm gonna watch big games, I'm
gonna gamble on it. I understand the business side of it.
And I am entertained still obviously by any football game
that you put on television with a point spread. But
it's just like, I don't know, it's it's it's a
lot fast, and I'm very interested where the dust settles
in a decade and how this is all gonna settle
(33:57):
into it.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
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a legend in a bottle today. So you know, I
(34:19):
was looking over the topics they gave us today. Here's
one that's really interesting to me. So certainly I understood
the Tim Tebow fascination because he was winning all the
time and there was a Christianity connection. Yeah, the Chador
(34:40):
thing is weird because he came from a small program,
didn't win a ton in college. There was no religious connection.
And I said, he reminds me of LaMelo Ball. He's
the first quarterback influencer where he's really popular in places
I don't go. I go to TV, popular on ig
(35:01):
or maybe Snapchat or all this stuff. And I think
that Dylan gabriel early success is very explainable. Dylan Gabriel
played so many college games. He was more ready than Shadure.
He also played in more of a pro system at
Oregon with pro players instead of Colorado. So Dylan Gabriel
(35:22):
played so many college games. When he walked into that
camp for the Browns to fancy, he's like, Oh, this
kid's unbelievable. On the whiteboard, he's unbelievable. But over the
course of time, Shouder's talents greater, which I've always argued,
And over the course of time Shadur ramped up, got
a lot of practices and everybody went, that's the better guy.
So I don't think there was anything other than more
experienced college guy from a greater NFL ready program had
(35:46):
a clear advantage to start, but eventually talent wins. But
through it all, what we aren't talking about is Shadur
does appear to be better than everybody in the NFL
fought because he was a fifth round quarterback, and Greg
Cosell came on my show this week and went, yeah,
the film said he was excellent and lost in all
(36:08):
of this is the most important position in the sport.
And because people didn't like some vibes, there's a franchise
quarterback in Cleveland and he'll be free for the next
four years.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
To me, that's unbelievable. I have all the respect in
the world for Greg Cosel. I watched every throw that
he had against Tennessee, and he was great. I thought
that he made some really impressive throws. I thought the
the throw to in Djoku for the touchdown, I thought, yes.
I thought the throw to Fanin for the two point conversion,
(36:46):
I thought. I thought he dumped it off some where
it felt like he felt pressure and had pretty good
just like awareness around him. I thought there was a
lot of impressive things in that game against Tennessee. I
still think it's a little soon to say that he
is a franchise quarterback for not beating the Titans, Like
(37:07):
it's just like he didn't be getting a little excited.
He didn't beat the worst team in the league, and
now you've got him his Cleveland starter for the next
four years. I think that's a little premature because the
game where he came in off the bench against Baltimore,
he looked not like an NFL player. The game against
his only road game this year is against the Raiders,
(37:30):
maybe the easiest spot to have a road game other
than Tennessee, and he was eleven for twenty for two
hundred yards, and he had a sixty six yard touchdown,
but sixty five of that was yack. It was a
dump off swing pass where the Raiders just didn't tackle.
And the Niners game, he was not good. And so like,
(37:52):
let's see because the Bears defense is not very good,
but they lead the league in takeaways.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
But he's gonna say and also, the Bears have a
stack roster like Denver does. Shador has a bad roster
and he's being very productive with a terrible receiving corps,
like really bad receiving corps.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yes, and and a coach who seemingly doesn't like him,
and so like like, yeah, I I Shador has been
better than I thought he was going to be, But like,
can we see how he plays when it's gonna be
five degrees below zero on the windshield against the number
one takeaway defense in the NFL? Like, I just it's
it's a little early for me to say that if
(38:29):
Cleveland has a top three pick, they're not taking a quarterback,
and if they I.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Would take Mendoza over him and.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Cheap, But then he's not a cheap franchise quarterback for
the next four years. Like if he doesn't play another
game for Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Well, that's what I'm saying. I don't think they're gonna
get to Mendoza. I think Cleveland's too talent. They're gonna
win another game. I would take Mendoza over him. That's
not saying he's not a franchise quarterback. Mendoza, I think
is a pro bowler very quickly.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, and listen, Schadeur, I cannot imagine because think about
what NFL teams have overlooked like how because thirty two
teams passed on him at least four times and some
teams like five or six times.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
And he is the most accurate college.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Quarterback ever and his father is one of the greatest
athletes this country has ever produced. Top five right, So, like,
I don't believe it was a conspiracy. I think there
was real red flags there, and I just I want
to I need to like actions, right, the NFL's action
(39:43):
said Shador Sanders is not an NFL quarterback. His actions
against Tennessee are saying no, no, no, no. I absolutely am
so Now I think it's actually interesting. I think that
prior to this, a lot of people were acting completely
foolish and it was like they weren't wanting to confirm
their confirmation bias of how they felt about him going
(40:05):
into the draft, and like you know, mel Kiper on
Draft night, I think shifted shaped a lot of narratives
and fame and people are tight with Dion and I
think there's a lot of factors at play here. But
I will admit, like now it's interesting, like now now
it did now to me. Now it is all right,
show what you can do. And I can't wait for
(40:27):
to explain it, but like next year, Deshaun Watson's on
that roster. No, gross, I agree with you. But the
owner of the Browns was at Deshaun Watson's wedding this offseason,
I know, and executed the worst trade in NFL history
and gave him a contract that apparently made him a
(40:50):
pariah among all of his billionaire friends because they were
all pissed that he gave him a fully guaranteed deal.
I'm thinking he might be a little invested in that
working out too, like it. So there's going to be
Shanur will have to be great the rest of this
year for him to enter next year not in a
quarterback competition with a two hundred and thirty million dollar
(41:12):
guaranteed quarterback and another draft pick, maybe not a first
round pick, maybe not a top five pick. But I
think he's going to have to be great to not
be in a serious quarterback competition next year.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
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look at year two, Josh Allen and Caleb Williams, Yeah,
(43:12):
numbers are they're literally the same.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Oh I've I've looked. It might be my screensaver.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
So Josh Allen did get better and I think Caleb
will overlooked In all of this is Buffalo has the
worst receiving core in the league right now, and Josh
is throwing to tight ends much easier throw. So his
completion percentage now is like, oh, look at Drew Brees.
Look at six six Drew Brees. No, Josh is still
(43:43):
a playmaker. He's probably closer to a sixty five sixty
six percent if he was throwing the ball down the field, which,
by the way, Mahomes is to a Rice or Xavier Worthy.
He's throwing to tight ends because Kincaid.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Hawes Yeah knocks, yeah knocks.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
That's I mean last week gave Davis, who they brought back,
had two catches. That was their go to. So I
think lost in Caleb Williams or under discussed. Not lost
is the fact that he may have made two of
the best throws of the season last week.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, the one is the keyst and the one that comment, yeah,
I mean ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
The one in the end zone is you. It's almost
an optical illusion when you watch it in real time.
If you watch it again in full speed, it doesn't
make sense. So he got there.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I was watching it. I was watching it with Nick,
and I was like, tell me if I'm being a
prisoner of the moment. But like he has the best
arm in the NFL. I think he does right. Like
it's it's it doesn't obviously that doesn't mean you're the
best it. Throwing it hard is not. But like like
to throw with velocity and accuracy on the move like
(44:52):
that is just It's just it's preposterous. It's it's it's
it's it's him, Josh Allen. It's it's a short list
of guys.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
So I guess this is my point. I think he's
a shorter Josh Allen. I think that's just camp. I
think he's a six to one Josh Allen. Everybody's like, well,
what is this? Everybody has comp and I'm like, I
said it today on the Herd, I'm like, he has
comp is Josh Allen Like there is no ceiling for him?
If I told you best arm never gets hurt those
(45:22):
very few interceptions. By the way, probably the best runner
right now in the league at quarterback now that Lamar
has scaled back, it's either Josh Allen or Caleb. And
you think this sounds crazy. I think Caleb is a
shorter Josh Allen.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
I really do so. I still think I still think
it's Aaron Rodgers. I just the the shorter Josh Allen
is just gonna be tough for me because so much
of what Josh Allen does is like he's a polar bear,
like you know what I mean, He's people bounce off
him like Ben Roethlisberger. Uh, he will truck people, not
(46:01):
that Caleb's not willing the truck people he has like
he because he's Caleb's six' one, but he's strong, like
he's like six one two thirty five, like he's he's pretty,
he's pretty beefy to thirty whatever it is. But like
Rogers was six two and Caleb maybe this is also
just following everything the guy said since he's been a
(46:21):
pro bla, like he's modeled his game after Rogers. Rogers
is his favorite player ever and what to me, one
of the greatest quarterback seasons, Like I'm like the short
list in NFL history is Rogers's twenty eleven season when
he had forty five touchdowns and six picks, because if
(46:42):
you look at that season, it was like it wasn't
a Brady surgical I'm just never throwing a risky play
and we're gonna have ten twelve fourteen play drives. It
was like he's top three in yards per attemp. Like
he was chucking the ball down the field and making
(47:04):
big throws but also not turning it over like they
were like deep ball throws that weren't risky. It was
it's crazy stuff, and I think that's what Caleb can
be like when he really dials it in, he wants
to use that arm and throw it all over the place,
and but he doesn't throw picks, and so that is
(47:25):
I still think the absolute ceiling is the downfield aggressive
assassin who doesn't turn the ball over and his mobility
and escapability is crazy because like Josh Allen can run,
but he's not like pureuetting out of you know, like
(47:47):
like Caleb Williams looks like I want Chicago to nickname
him the one, Like he looks like Neo in the matrix.
He's like dodging bullets. He was sat sixty eight times
last year, and people said I was a homer for
this opinion, but I stand by it. I actually thought
he had a pretty good pocket presence last time. Like
(48:10):
it's an insane thing to say for a guy who
took had a top five sacks season in NFL history.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Well, Ben Johnson, first thing he did, Jonah Jackson drew
Dolmand Joe Tooney. It wasn't Caleb. It was the line.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, and and like it was and he was he
was trying to make plays like it wasn't like he
was dropping back to pass and getting blindsided and he
didn't see it coming. It was like the team sucks.
It's a ten game losing streak. I have three play callers,
my rookie year. Guys are dropping like flies all around
(48:44):
me and I'm trying to make plays and he would
get he would get sack. Now, some of it was
on him. He held the ball too long. I think
that's the number that I think. It was on a
Monday night football broadcast, and it blew my mind. He
took like twenty eight sacks last year where he held
the ball for five more seconds. That should be impossible.
I don't think Peyton Manning did it in his career,
(49:05):
and so like he he's definitely learned and Ben Johnson
has helped him. But he is an escape artist back there,
and sometimes it'll lead to a sack that was seventeen
yards instead of eight yards like you know sometimes, but
he's really cut down on that this year. The completion
percentage is way too low. He he doesn't seem to
(49:27):
see it quite quick enough. Like the throw he missed
to comment was open. He just he saw it late
and underthrew it. Terrible combination and it was a game
ending interception. But like I am convinced that there is
a superstar there and that there is an MVP there,
and I think Ben Johnson's going to get there. I
think we've seen it before, like the Mahomes. It was
(49:50):
his first year starting, which made it so special, but
it was his second year and Andy Reid's system, like
we've seen the even if it's third year in the league,
but it's the second year in the system. Like second
year in the system is when you can have the
mastery of it. I think Caleb is going to be
a very trendy MVP pick next year. I think he's
(50:11):
going to have a monster season next year with Ben Johnson,
and then we'll see what that means for the rest
of this year.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Danny Parkins First things first, the volume
Host
Colin Cowherd
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