East & West Contenders & Pretenders w/ Dan Devine

Rohan Nadkarni is joined by Dan Devine of Yahoo Sports to break down how the Nuggets have followed their own lead from last year by dominating out of the all star break. We also discuss the under discussed Pelicans led by a surging Zion Williamson, try to make sense of the hot and cold Dallas Mavericks, and how some injury plagued teams in the eastern conference have managed to stay well above .500

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
It is the Crossover Sports Illustrators NBA show, bring the
the latest NEWSS, rumors and everything.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Here's your hosts. Welcome back to another episode of the
Crossover Podcast. I'm Rohan Knock and he joined today by
a very special guest. He's the co host of the
No Cap Room podcast, the host of Divine Intervention, a

(00:31):
senior writer for Yahoo Sports. Please welcome to the Crossover Pod.
Daniel Bartholomew Divine Dan. How are you? Man?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Bartholow you that I'm good?

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (00:42):
That is the I believe that's the name of the
guy who used to coach a Notre Dame and the Packers,
though I think I'm a I'm a James middle name.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Which Oh, so we booked the wrong Dan Divine.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, I'm so sorry. You know, I'll just get out
of the zoo and you guys can get the right
one in I which means that was very narrowly. I
was almost DJ Divine, but that it didn't didn't work
out that way works.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Such a different haircut. If your DJ Divine with way
more tats, it would have been a completely different vibe.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
I mean, listen, there's life is long, There's there's no
rule saying there's no rule, saying I can't uh switch
it all up, Like I disagree.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Because there was this guy who went to my high
school named uh Danny Bench, and like senior year, he
tried to start going by Dan Bench and we were
all like, it's too late, bro. You can maybe in
college you can give this a shot, but it's it's
not happening now.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, come on, I mean, Danny Bench, if you're out
there and I know you're listening, and if and if
he's not, if someone that knows him is, you gotta
know that you can't make that move that late. And
in a in a game, if you're at the end
of the quarter, you gotta hold that. You can't put
that up before the buzzer. You gotta hold that and
wait till the next the next time out exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Dan, thank you so much for taking the time to
do this. You know, when I did your podcast, you're
producer reached out like, gave me all these series of steps.
You sent me such a detailed outline, and I basically
dmd you on Twitter and was like, we're just gonna
talk about basketball. So I appreciate you kind of rolling
with the punches here.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Well, A couple of things about that. One is you
had you asked me very politely and kindly, so it
wasn't like you were just you know, rude to drop
it into the DMS. And then the other part is like,
I that is an over preparer's thing, Like that is
me showing you my lack of self confidence about what
I'm asking you to do. So I'm like, I'm asking
you to do the thing I don't know that, I'm

(02:35):
my I'm up to snuff, So I'm gonna try to
over prepare. You don't need to do that because you
just got it naturally. You got it for cheap. It
comes natural and easy for you, and I respect it.
I admire it. I can't really I aspire to it.
I can't get there on my own.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Sure, let's go with that as the reason for lack
of outline. Let's go with that, all right, Dan, there
are some things I would like to talk about with
you today as they relate to the National Basketball Association.
Let's start in the Western Conference. By the time this
podcast is up, I wrote a short thing about the
Nuggets today for us I and just you know, if

(03:14):
you remember last year, they kind of had this weird
post All Star lull. I looked it up. They went
twelve and eleven, and it seemed like Jokic was like
actively trying to not win the MVP to the last
twenty five games of the season, and you know, it
didn't make me doubt what they were capable of in
the playoffs. So it was a weird kind of lull
they went through. Not the case this year, three game

(03:36):
losing streak headed into the All Star Break. Since then,
Jokic sends what's now like the text heard around Denver
since some texts to the team group chat. They're ten
and one since the All Star break. He's averaging a
triple double. Since the All Star Break. They beat up
on the Celtics, they beat up on the Warriors, they
beat up on the Heat twice. Basically, any opponent you
put in front of them, they've been mowing down. They

(03:56):
are a machine. We know how good the Nuggets are.
Let me put it that, we know how good the
Nuggets are. The question is is there any team good
enough to scare them? And that's really what I want
to start the conversations day because the West it's in
a weird spot right now. The Wolves are dealing with
this Karl Anthony Towns injury. The Clippers have been on
a little slide of their own, little injury issues of

(04:17):
their own. The Pelicans are rising, the thunder have been
there all year. So I'll open it up to you.
I mean, basically, any team you'd like to talk about here,
But who do you see is kind of a threat
to Denver in the West as things currently stand.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, the first thing that I did when when you
said you wanted to talk about this is I just
looked up how have they done against those teams in
the regular season, And like, you know, we know, regular
season records only matter for so much, but it's you know,
you go off the information you have, right, and they
have mowed down most of these teams. So like, sorry MAVs,

(04:52):
sorry clips, you know, like I'm not. I guess there's
a world where you can say the clip like a
fully healthy Clippers team with you know, Kawhi operating at
Pete Kawhi like that, that can that can do something
for you. But the teams that have beaten them multiple
times in the in the Western Conference playoff picture, the
Nuggets are one and three against the Kings and one

(05:14):
in three against the Thunder. Now the Kings, all due
respect to our friends in Sacramento. One of those games,
no Jamal Murray, one of them, no KCP, no MPJ,
one of them, no Murray and no KCP. The one
time that Denver had everybody, they were up on Sacramento
by thirty two points late in the third quarter. So
I think that that might be a while. I Denver

(05:37):
might have some problems point of attack defense wise, like
if Murray's getting cooked or if sorry, if Dearon Fox
is getting cooking, or if Malik Munk's getting cooking. That
was maybe more a function of Denver didn't have its team.
The Thunder are more interesting to me though, because it
feels like the biggest caveat you can throw at the
Thunder is just like they haven't done it. They're young,

(05:59):
and that's I'm not saying that that's not a real thing,
but I don't think anybody like Again, you go back
through the matchups and there was like there are some
factors there, like no KCP in the first loss to
the Thunder, Denver was on the second night of it,
back to back in the second one, no Jokicchen. The

(06:22):
third one obviously that that matters quite a bit. But
as you go through those losses, it's like Denver is
up late in the first loss and then SGA just
scores eleven points in six minutes. SGA goes for forty.
In the second game, SGA goes for thirty four. I
don't think that the Nuggets have an answer for SGA
at the point of attack, not that a whole hell

(06:43):
of a lot of people do. And I think that
there's a better chance for Oklahoma City of kind of
disrupting what Denver does, because like the two Man, you're
not gonna do anything with Yolkics, right, we all know
that the like you know, watching the sweat equity of
ben Adebayo trying to defend Nicol Jokic harder than anybody
in the history of humanity has ever tried to do

(07:04):
anything and then coming up short on it. It's like, yeah,
there's not You're not gonna be able to do much there.
But you could maybe throw some stand in the gears
with Jamal Murray and lou Dort go guard that guy.
Feels like a really good starting place for that, right. Also,
let's make Murray work on the other end, because if
you say say you put Katavi, it's called the Pope

(07:26):
on SGA, like our best perimeter defender on your number
one guy. Murray still got to guard somebody, and that's
maybe Jason Jalen Williams. And Jalen Williams has been a
monster this season. And it is a physical problem, like
six five, two hundred, built like a cinder block, Like
that's gonna be that can be something that would maybe
get into the legs of Murray. So that that component

(07:46):
is interesting to me. And yeah, Yokic is gonna put
chet home Grin in the basket twenty times, he's also
got to guard him as a real stretch threat on
the parameter. Yeah, And so like the I, there's a
lot of Like I understand the argument of young team.
You can't buy them until you see it. The Nuggets

(08:09):
have proven they've solved every problem put in front of them.
They very well may do that with Oklahoma City, But
the geography of the matchup, I'm like, there might be
something there.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, that's a very interesting pick. And you know, I'm
a worthy one obviously, And it's interesting. I don't want
to get two in the weeds because they might not
see each other on the playoffs when you just think
of the matchups, like something the Nuggets left to do
is they'll put Yokic on the on the other team's
worst shooter, right yep. And it's like, could they get
away with putting Yokic on Lou Dort? Now? Dort is

(08:42):
a willing shooter. He's the kind of guy that, like,
if you're gonna pick your poison against the Thunder, he's
the team. He's the guy that teams usually pick, but
he's willing to let those fly. And it's like, what
yokicch But then that creates another problem because who you're
putting on chat Holm, you're gonna put MPG on them?
And you know, the homegrown thing is so interesting because
as you mentioned, like it was Jokic said he needs

(09:04):
to get fatter this year. The homeland thing is so
interesting because I think I sometimes I wonder if Boston
made the Porzingis move almost entirely because of Denver, because
I think there's an argument to be made that the
best way to beat Jokic is to make him guard

(09:25):
a big man on the perimeter, because if you have
like a big man who can't shoot like Jokic is
like he takes the sag off to its most logical extreme,
like he is playing so far off guys, to the
point where bam Adebayo like actually shot at three last night,
like and but Jokic is like, yeah, go ahead, shoot

(09:47):
fifteen of those, Bam. Like even in the finals, he
was like, Bam, shoot as many paint mid range jumpers
as you want. I'm gonna continue to play off of you.
That's just how he plays defense, and it's smart. It's
like they loll teams to taking shots that they don't
want to take, like how like how thinking about how
Denver would try to defend Oklahoma City's very interesting. And

(10:08):
I think if you talk to people you know around
the Nuggets, I think I don't think they'd be scared
of Okay see, but I think they'd have a respect
for what the Thunder have done against them this year.
It's just funny because I agree with you. I think
the Thunder present problems. And you mentioned Sga, like he's
so consistent. He is getting thirty every single night. It
doesn't matter you guard him with. He is getting thirty
every single night. But when we talk about the Thunder,

(10:31):
we also talk about like they lack size. Yeah, And
if you think about Denver, like their biggest advantage is
how much size they have in the front coat between Gordon,
MPJ and Jokic, that it just creates mismatch after mismatch.
So it's not even that I disagree with you. It's
just like, even when you think about how how much

(10:53):
trouble the Thunder can put Denver in, it's like, man,
it goes the other way too. I want to ask
you your opinion on the Pelicans because I agree. I
think the Thunder, I mean, the Thunder might still end
up with the one seed, which by the way, is
huge because Denver, yeah, lost only one home game all
of last postseason and didn't lose a home game in
the West. The Pelicans are kind of I don't know

(11:17):
what to make of them. It feels like every NBA
podcast has done like their Pelicans segment in the last
couple weeks, and I guess like we have to join them.
Like they're climbing in net rating. I think they're sixth
in the standings right now, fifth or sixth. They're kind
of in that bunch in the West, so it's like
it's hard to say they've separated themselves even though they've

(11:38):
gone on kind of a tear recently. How do you
feel the Pelicans are fifth right now, but they're only
one game ahead of the Suns who are in seventh,
one and a half game ahead of the Mavericks, who
are super streaky in eighth. You know, there's kind of
that bunch five through eight, you know New Orleans has had.

(12:00):
There was one game they played early in the regular season.
New Orleans was kind of hanging in there the last
couple of minutes. I mean, Denver's late game execution is
just so good. I mean this isn't even as it
relates to the Nuggets, but what have you made it
kind of like the New Orleans push here the last
few weeks.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, they're They're a team that, like I want to
believe so much because I love the talent on the
team and I think that there's there. It's also just
from a narrative perspective. I know it's a dirty word,
but we we do like we do follow stories. Right
that team got exposed in a really serious way in

(12:37):
front of the world in that nd season tournament finale,
right in the in the game that they played against
the Lakers, and it became like open season on Zion
Williamson not being being an unserious, you know, not befitting
the label of a number one pick and a superstar
and all that kind of stuff. And then since that
point they have just like built built, built, built, built,

(12:59):
and Zion has gotten into better shape. He's stayed healthy
and active and available the whole season. He's been more
of a playmaker than scorer for himself. They found better
ways to put the ball back in his hands, let
him attack and spread floors, get more shooting around him,
all that kind of stuff. And there may I think
the deepest team in the NBA. There's just more. There's

(13:21):
so many answers there, and so many guys playing the
roles that they need to play for this team, like
CJ McCollum basically saying, I understand, I'm gonna need to
be a floor spacing, catch and shoot guy more than
somebody who runs thirty pick and rolls a night and
is operating with the ball in his hands all the time.
That's what I am on this team. Herb Jones going

(13:42):
from like a just defensive, lockdown guy who if the
ball got to him in the corner, you were kind
of like, I don't know, we'll see to He is
seventh in the NBA and three point percentage of this season,
he's shooting forty three point five percent from three. And
you know Trey Murphy shaking off at the beginning season,
he was out after a minute of aniscus injury. He

(14:02):
finally catches his rhythm. He gets these at a hallacious slump,
breaks out of that starts hitting shots. So they're all
these pieces that you love and you're like, how do
they I think that it makes sense. Brandon Ingram, whose
name I keep forgetting to bring up whenever I talk
about this team. All he does is average whatever, like
twenty four, five and five.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
He's like so under the radar this year and it
you know, and it feels like people expect more from him.
But he's been fantastic. Hey, what's frustrating to me about
the Pelicans, because, as you mentioned, I think you look
at their roster like one through ten probably on like
if you're adding up, if you're assigning like a talent
score one through ten in the league, like they might

(14:41):
be top three, top five just based on the strength
of who they have after their stars. But what frustrates
me about that is it's like, ken will that ever
translate to postseason success? Because I always want to believe
in teams like that. I always want to believe in teams.
It's like, we have positional flexibility, we have lineup flexibility.

(15:03):
Oh you want to play big, We'll play big this series.
You want to play small, We'll play small this series.
And I always fall in love with those teams. Like
when the Raptors had Serge Ibaka and PJ Tucker, I
was like, they're beating the calves this year, like they're
you know, I was like that, Oh they want you
you want to play small, We'll play small. Like I
was like, they're they're winning, And of course, you know

(15:24):
what happened. They ran into Lebron and that was that.
I just I hope it matters, Dan, Is what I'm
saying is like, I really hope it matters. Because as
great as Ingram is, as available as Zion has been
this year, I just wonder if that's gonna be enough
come playoff time.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
It's a completely reasonable question. I mean, they've been they've
actually been above above five hundred against above five hundred teams,
Like they're not one of the teams where they've beaten
up on a bunch of bad teams and then really
folded against good teams. But they also they feel a
little bit like duct taped together. And you mentioned their
offensive execution issues. You look at what NBA dot Com

(16:06):
defines as like clutch time, right the last five minutes
of the fourth quarter or overtime, the scores within five points,
so a couple possessions late in the game. They are
twenty sixth in clutch offense. The only team of like
a playoff playoff caliber team, playoff hopeful team that is
worse than them in offensive fiftency this season is the

(16:28):
Heat where and the Heat have had obviously so many
guys in and out, they haven't really been able to
find a rhythm, and they suck it off. And then
there's that part as well. But so and you see
a game like Wednesday night where they play the Cavs
and absolutely get their doors blown off. They're getting the
break speed off of because they can't keep up from
the three point line. And then you look down the

(16:48):
end of their bench and there's Jordan Hawkins and there's
Matt Ryan and now those guys, you know, you break
down the depth chart and you're like, on in a vacuum,
you can say, yeah, they shouldn't be elevating those guys
in the rotation over the guys that are already there,
but they're like. The worry is almost like if you
get it's like you've given Willy Green too many ingredients

(17:10):
and you're like, make something and he's like, but he doesn't.
Might not always grab the right ingredient for the right moment,
you know. And that's not not to say that Willy
Green has not done a wonderful job with that team.
Getting a team that young and with that many sort
of disparate parts to defend as well as he has
is really really super impressive. But I think it's right
to say, I don't know that depth is enough, especially

(17:32):
if you're not able to pull the right levers at
the right time. And then then maybe the biggest thing
is specifically to the Nugget situation, the main question that
sort of the Pelicans can ask of you is how
do you deal with Zion? And I don't know that
there's a team in the conference that's got a better
answer for that than Aaron Gordon, because like he is
built to guard guys of all shapes and sizes and.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Strengths built to guard like a tweener bully power forward
like Zion is.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, and has had experience doing that on a really
high level against elite players. Now you just did that
through the playoffs, right, He was like, he's your answer
on Katie and Lebron and Jimmy Butler, and it's like, well,
you know, okay, check his resume. It's not too bad.
So if Zion does not provide the like immediate matchup break,

(18:20):
you you know, the tendency breaker or the mismatch that
the demands more help that then opens things up for
drive and kick, then it becomes a lot harder for
the Pelicans to score. So that matchup will, I think,
would probably be about as bad as it would get
for New Orleans. That said, I think that New Orleans,
if they get into five, they stay in five, maybe

(18:42):
even if they're in six, depending on who's in three.
I think there's a real chance of them making a
first round upset. I think that they're good enough, and
they've they they can play at a high enough level
to do that. I think if I'm you mentioned earlier,
the Wolves without Carl Anthony Towns, I think Zion looks
at I can get to go downhill Rudy Gobert, and
that's food, and he feels pretty comfortable about that. I

(19:04):
think they could. They might look at maybe a weekend
Clippers team and say they don't like if that's not
Kawhi Leonard, and also Kawhi Leonard now currently dealing with backspasms,
like if they don't have a guy to guard me
like that, there are there are some possibilities there. I'm
just I'm just not so sure that the Pelicans against
the Nuggets would be one of them.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
I am still riding you mentioned Willy Green. I don't care.
I don't care what adjustment he makes or what rotation
he plays. I'm still riding the fumes of Like a
audio clip they played during their first round series against
the Suns last year, and it was like before the
fourth quarter and he's giving like a hype up speech,
and I was like, I will die for Willy Green

(19:44):
right now on this couch. If I have to add,
I'd never heard such a great U hype sweech before
in my life. That was some of the best audio
I think T and T had ever captured. I was, Oh,
my god, so shout out to Willy Green. Yes, I man,
it's again. It's just like it's it's such a like

(20:06):
a U fun way to be like, Oh, they know
they don't really have an answer for yokitch, right, but yeah, man,
the Pelicans are gonna be interesting. I hope they make
a run because you know, I mentioned that first one's
using as the suns. It's funny. They're kind of like
a diet version of what the Nuggets were in that
they looked like they were about to be on the rise.
Then they had injuries and it's like, wait, is this
team ever gonna do it? And now things are finally

(20:27):
starting to click in a way that's very exciting. So
I hope we get to see them in a high
level playoff series. Uh, let's just kind of jump around
the West a little bit here. I wanted to get
your take on the MAVs. Who you know, they go
on this great streak after the PJ. Washington trade, and
I know that because I think I gave the trade
like a C plus and like I had MAVs fans
blowing me up like all caps, like you still think

(20:49):
this is a C plus. Then they lost a bunch
of games in a row, and I was so tempted
to respond, and I'm glad I didn't you a little
bit exactly. Now it's like, you know, they're back up.
I still think, like, you know, the Grant Williams thing
didn't work out for like a bunch of reasons that
apparently weren't even basketball related. I just still wonder, like

(21:11):
when push comes to shove, like who on this team
is playing defense in a playoff series, and like maybe
Luca is enough that it's just simply does not matter.
But uh, I mean, we wanted to get too deep
into it. But do you have like a take on
kind of the just the topsy turvy nature of the
post deadline maps? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:28):
So actually I wrote about them for this morning, so
it just wait, just went up like probably before a
little before we got started. I think, so haven't. I've
gotten to look at it and make sure the formatting
is right, but I hope it is. After having spent
a few days like watching and researching and reading about
and thinking about the Mavericks, my take on them is
I don't know what the hell they are. And I

(21:48):
think that the problem is that maybe they don't know
that either. They are a they're a similar to New Orleans,
where it's like there are all these pieces that could
be part of an answer and part of a sort
of collective solution. I think the issue is maybe that
they wind up sometimes cannibalizing one another. Like the PJ. Washington,

(22:11):
the idea was, oh, you get him, and he's sort
of like he can be like a stretch four and
a playmaking four, and then he's shooting like twenty nine
percent from three and doesn't fit really neatly next to
either Derek Lively or Daniel Gafford as far as offensive
pieces go. And so then it's like, all right, well,
how do you get the most out of PJ. Washington. Well,

(22:31):
in like small ball lineups with Maxi Kleeber, all right, well,
you just drafted a standard in the lottery and just
traded a first round pick for a guy, and then
that might not sort of fit so neatly together. But
then you also want PJ. Washington's like size and athleticism, switchability,
perimeter oriented defense on your starting five. So then they
just recently juggled their starting five, and so it's like, well,

(22:52):
how do we make that work? We get Derek Jones
Junior and Dante dote X, I'm sorry, we get Derek
Jones Junior back in there alongside Gafford. So now Lively's
on the bench in Washington, and they've won four straight
games and they've beaten up on some some bad opponents.
They just they beat up on or they beat the
Warriors without Steph.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
And Draymond, the theists in there.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, they hammered the Bulls like it hasn't been you know,
leading lights during this like uptick. But you had to stabilize.
That was the main thing they had to do. And
so I look at it and I'm like, the more
and then you know, Dante exim I mentioned him. He
has been like a you know, positive connector for them,
somebody who's good at the point of attack, which you
need if you're going to play a lot of Kyrie

(23:32):
and Luca who are not necessarily always so good at
the point of attack on the perimeter. And the more
you play him, are you then minimizing Josh Green, who
is a big part of the team. And we haven't
even mentioned the name Tim Hardaway Junior because he's kind
of shot his way out of the rotation and so
there's like, what is your best five. What is the
right five that answers the call on both ends of

(23:53):
the floor. And I think that Jason Kidd, with twenty
games or whatever, seventeen games left in the season, is
still kind of like I don't really know, and so
some of that is maybe through fault of his own
and like now I've not found the right schematic answers
or found the right rotation answers. I'll so a lot
of it is injuries they've had all I think almost
everybody but Luca has missed serious time this season. Some

(24:17):
of it is you have a team that gets up
ended at the trade deadline, right, so they are their
ten games over five hundred with the second best offense
in the NBA since the trade deadline, and I still
am not sure they're good like that. That's a weird
thing to think.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's it's just a tor. This is them since February fourth.
They lost to the Bucks on February third. Then they
won seven games in a row, then they lost five
or six. Now they've won four in a row. I'm
with you, minut it's tough to get a handle on them.
Someone who I thought was like really ready to take off,
especially after their Conference final run was MAXI Kleiba, who

(24:55):
you know, he's had injury issues, Yeah, and like he's
someone who I thought like he and Lively's been fantastic.
Gafford's been good for them, continues to shoot like ninety
eight percent from the field or whatever it is playing
next to Luca. But like Kleeb was, I thought someone who, Okay,
he can play small ball five. He's good enough shooter
and a good enough defender that he can play the four.

(25:16):
Like I think Kleiba actually has had like some really
good defensive possessions against like big name scorers, like he's
had to play Kawhi in the playoffs. Uh, I've seen
him defend guys really well. And you know, he obviously
still has a role on this team, but it just
feels like, you know, the injuries have kind of taken
away from what he was gonna be. Like I thought

(25:37):
when they signed Grant, I was like, oh my god,
they're gonna play like Cleiba and Grant Williams together, like
if exem can shoot all of a sudden, like they
have three decent defenders and a good size in the
front court, and you know, some of that's come to fruition.
I saw your tweet about Dante Exen the other night,
Like could not agree more, like the fact that he's
even like a willing and if not knockdown, but he'll
hit enough threes guy, Like he's been what a godsend

(26:02):
he's been for this team, like the exact kind of
player they need. But I'm with you, it just feels
like they still don't have the right combination yet, which
is frustrating because I at the same time, You're like,
I don't know, man, if Luca gets hot for four games,
I mean I saw it man against that Suns team
in that Game seven, Dan, I was so excited the

(26:25):
first Game seven uncovering, like it's is gonna be classic.
This has been a fantastic series. And like after the
second step back three he hit, like everyone in the
arena new was over. It's like every single person was like, Oh,
this is just one of those Luca Knights, Like yeah,
and they've they've just had Like I mentioned that, this
recent stretch, it's been so weird. I'm interested to see

(26:46):
who Jason Kidd kind of settles on as these are
our best five when it's a true must have, and
I think he's coming close, but I'm not sure it's
it's fully there yet.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Well, I think one part of it is, like he said,
I think it was on Christmas or after the Christmas
Day game, like when everyone's healthy, the five I want
is Luca Kyrie Lively and I think it was exhum
and Derek Jones Junior. And that lineup has played like
twenty five minutes all season, and so some of that
was just like guys have been injured in and out

(27:19):
at different times, and some of it is like in
trying to find the right answer, it's like plugging the
hole in a damn and you put your finger over
there and then it leaks over here. And then the
frustrating part about that is like, so there's all this,
you know, you have the questions, what is this team
really when it matters, what's it gonna be? They've ridden
I think I think they're like twenty one and five
against under five hundred teams and then seventeen and twenty

(27:42):
three against teams over five hundred, So all right, you're
not gonna face under five hundred teams on your path
through the plane and into the playoffs. And then you
look ahead and there's like, so Thursday were recording Thursday afternoon,
Thursday night, they go. It's a second night of a
back to back, but they're gonna go and they deal
with the thunder. Then on Sunday the Nuggets go to

(28:02):
dent to Dallas, and so you're like, all right, they've
been playing better, they've got their guys healthy. Let's get
a look at what it looks like. And then midway
through the fourth quarter on Wednesday, Luca comes up and
his hamstring's tight, and now it's like unclear how much
how available he'll be. So you know, you still might
see you know, maybe Kyrie goes off, because Kyrie is
certainly capable of doing that, but you still don't get

(28:25):
to see the full picture, and you don't get the
full set of answers. And that feels like what we're
still waiting for with the Mavericks.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Absolutely, oh man, they're gonna be just I don't know
if you ever feel this way. Like sometimes I'll look
at the West standings like four through ten and I
start to like like whip myself into a frenzy thinking
about the possible playoff matchups in combinations, and I'm like,
I'm like, you gotta stop thinking so hard about this

(28:53):
because one day the playoffs are going to be here
and the matchups will be the matchups, Like, you gotta stop.
But I'm like, you know, it's like I start think
about the combination, Oh what if we get this match
on I just start to like go nuts and on
my I'm thinking about like all the teams that'd be
fasting to watch Luca play against the first round. It's
like what if they get the Clippers again? And anyway,
I gotta stop because I'll literally just like start going
insane and like rambling like a crazy person real quick.

(29:17):
I want to pivot, but I did you have a
thought that you wanted to add to?

Speaker 1 (29:21):
I just never lose that insanity, and it is a
good level of passion to have. And it also it
makes me just makes me think of You're like, I'm
so excited it was my first game seven, and it
was your first game seven with like and like legitimate superstars,
like yeah, Megawatt talent. My first game seven was bulls
Nets the year that Derek Rose was out and lu

(29:42):
Al Deng had a spinal tap and I think Kirk
Heinrich was in a body cast Jokim Noah had like
planner fasciitis and was playing on it forty three minutes
the nets, Like it was the the vibe like as
bad as the vibes often are around Barclay Center, Like
this was like the real poverty of VI of the
Darren Williams, brook Lopez, Joe Johnson eraonets and you're like

(30:05):
and then Chicago, with like half of a guy on
their roster, went in and beat the nets. In Brooklyn,
Jokim Noah was the best player on the floor on
like one foot. And I remember hearing a lady from
the exit you have like the media seating, and then
like up above the level layer level above, just a
lady yelling how that way lowse how that way lows.

(30:26):
And I was like, that's the saddest goddamn thing I
ever heard in my life. So, yeah, your Game seven
experience a little more, you know, maybe maybe it's why
your level of bubbliness and excitement is a little higher.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
You mentioned Louiel dang by the way real quick, like
he obviously had that crazy Backsleans final situation, And yes,
terrible awful concerning my first or second year at SI
back when like I was in no position to like
be requesting teams for one on ones, nor did like
s I want me doing that. I just like showed
up see like a Heat Knicks game or something, and
Louiel Dang was there, and I was like, I'm gonna

(30:58):
do a short thing on Luil Dang and find him
in the locker room and ask him a bunch of
questions and like started asking about his back, and he
was like so caught off guard that someone was asking
him about this before the game in the locker room,
like clearly like me, all entirely on me, like not
recognizing like the protocol of this situation. And because he's
the consummate professional, like answered my first question about it

(31:21):
then was like this is not really like aod time
for me to talk about this right now. So my
apologies to lo all Dang, and also thank you for
treating me with such professionalism, because I was like an
overeager twenty three year old being like I'm gonna get
my lu all Dang exclusive right now.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Nothing wrong with that. Also, so we are up to
we got Danny Bench and we got lou All Dang.
That's who we shouted out so far. Yes, so we're
we're gonna keep a running Taly that people were shouting
out as we go.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
For sure, real quick before we pivot. I just want
to get like a you know, just right now, you know,
first impression when I tell you, are you panicked about
the Clippers? Yes? Or No? Seven and eight? I think
in the last fifteen.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yes, because I watched Kawhi Leonard come down from a
shot and like seize up on his back and then
leave and leave the arena and then uh and Tylu's
answer to that after the game was, Oh, yeah, he's
been dealing with some back stuff for a couple of games.
It's like, well, that's a pretty big problem. The quick
number on that, because I looked it up because I'm
a homework nerd, is with Kawhi Leonard on the floor

(32:23):
this season, they're plus eight point six points possessions on
cleaning the glass. So, like, top three level offense, top
three level defense him off the floor, even with the
factor in the minutes where they've got hardened and they've
got Paul George negative one point three, they're getting outscored
with Kawhi off the floor, and their defense is one
of the worst in the NBA. So like I was.

(32:43):
I was talking to one of our producers at Yahoo Sports, like,
it is frustrating sometimes because you want to introduce new
like nuance and shading and whatever to these sort of discussions,
and a lot of times it's just like is Kawhi healthy? Yeah,
like not for nothing, there's you have to bow in
the face of the most obvious possible thing, or like
yes if that, if he's healthy, they're really good. And

(33:03):
if he's not, wait till next year.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
That I'm holding out hope and hopefully. They're very cautious
with him. And in a weird way, it's like, I'm
glad it's the back and not the knees and we'll
see what happens. But that that's a great stat that
you pulled, because you think with all the talent they have,
it's crazy how reliant they still are on QUI. Let's
move east a little bit, Dan, I want to ask
you about the New York Knicks. Who got Og and

(33:27):
Ando we back in the lineup this week. I mean
they've been hit with injuries like Crazy Og went out,
Julius Randall went out, Brunson's missed some time in the
last couple of months. It's crazy because when they're all healthy,
like TIBs plays their guys so much, like they still
have one of the most used starting fives in the league,

(33:48):
which kind of would obvious skate just how many injury
issues they've had the last couple of months. But guys
seem to be getting back, and I think they're They're
right to take their time with Randall, especially because I
think they went out and acquired a lot of depth
at the deadline. You know, there was a time where
they were really kind of threatening, I think, to be
in the top three in the East. Since then, kind

(34:08):
of Cleveland and Milwaukee have separated themselves. You know, the
Knicks are kind of closer to that pack, at least
standing wise with Orlando, Indiana, Miami, a little bit, Philly,
et cetera. My question to you, do you find the
Knicks closer to the top three or the next three

(34:29):
in the East? I mean, Orlando is neck and neck
with them too. Orlando's credit, We're gonna get to the
Magic in a bit. But how are you feeling about
this team? Do you feel like they're closer to the
top or closer to that next pack down?

Speaker 1 (34:42):
I think closer to that as currently constituted where you
don't have Randall, you don't I think.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Randall's coming back. Robinson, I wouldn't say I've given up
on I mean that one obviously was like first he
was out for the year, then he's not, et cetera.
But let's say Randall is healthy come playoff time.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
If if I would say, if you had a full
strength nixt team, I think they're closer to the top
two than they are to the middle. I think that
what they showed during that first month that they had
Ojanna Nobi, it was like we talked about sort of
the sometimes the obvious thing that smacks you in the

(35:21):
face and or it strips out all your nuance or whatever.
I like, I would never claim to be particularly bright
about this stuff, but there was a moment where I
was watching them after that I right after they got
h I don't Obi, and I was like, oh man,
he's just like a lot bigger than the other guys
that they had trying to do that before. Like he
goes and he guards the big wing guys, Like so
Josh Hart at six ' ford doesn't have to try

(35:43):
to do that, or Dante DiVincenzo at six ' ford
doesn't have to try to do that, and that just
the he has such a multiplier effect on the team
because he goes and he takes the number one guy,
whatever shape or size, and then everybody else's job gets
easier on d fence, which also means like it puts
guys in position to be play to their strengths, like

(36:05):
Josh Hart and Dante DiVincenzo are so much better as
help defenders and like doubling off guys or getting into
passing lanes creating turnovers that way than they are as
on ball defenders, although they can both do that pretty
well as well, but their best asset is like they
can recavoc off the ball. Now adnob allows you to
do that. On the other end, another shooter with real

(36:30):
gravity out to the corners creates more room for Jalen
Brunson and Julius Randall to be able to run, pick
and roll, get downhill, drive and kick. And he's also
been somebody who I know, your former colleague Chris Herring
had written about the way he kind of kicks. He
kind of kickstarts the transition game too, and he's been

(36:50):
a great run on the floor and so it just
it makes everything easier for everyone, and when you already
have a handful of guys, keep of defending multiple positions,
capable of generating shots, capable of playing the style of
offense and defense that Tom Thibodeau wants. You know, Brunson
is an isolation kind of lock pick, able to find

(37:12):
his matchup, search and destroy Randall when he's not, you know,
sort of ponderously jab stepping, but at going north south
getting downhill is a real bruiser and a bear to
deal with. The healthy version of that team, I think
is would match. They are not going to have the
best player in any of those series, but I would

(37:32):
I would be willing to take my chances with them.
I think that that would be I would love to
see a full strength Knicks team against a full strength
Bucks team or a full strength Celtics team. I don't
know that they would win either of those series, but
I think they would take a pound of flesh along
the way.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
A full strength Knicks box would be very, very interesting.
I mean, I still think Boston anyone you throw up
against Boston now I think the separated themselves. But so
I think Tims has done a phenomenal job because I
want to preface what I'm about to say by recognize,
I think he's great. I like, I wonder, let's say,
like Nick Nurse, we're coaching this team. I'm just so

(38:09):
fascinated by the Knicks because when Hartenstein, Randall, and Ananobi
are all healthy and Bogdanovich, the whole team really again,
this is this is like my personal thing that I'm
just obsessed with, probably because I played like too much
two K growing up. But they are another team that's like,
you want to play big and physical, Okay, we'll put Randall,

(38:29):
Hartenstein and Anobi out there, or do we need to
play small and fast? What if we put Randall at
the five, Ananobi Bogdanovich and just started saying we're gonna
shoot a ton of threes and play fast and listen,
TIBs team has never done that. They're not going to
play fast. You know. The Randal we saw like in
New Orleans that one year when he was like running
up and down the floor is long gone. But like

(38:51):
I I sometimes I just wonder what if they played
that way for a little bit, because I think they're capable,
and I will say, like they don't need to. I mean,
like they've found their formula, which is we're gonna play
slow and we're gonna see if you can stop Jalen
Brunson in the half court enough times, because you know,
as small as he is and I think as limited
people expecting to be defensively. Whatever said this before, I'll

(39:11):
say it again. Pound for pound, maybe the toughest guy
in the league. That shoulder of his will get through anyone. Well,
you put anyone in front of him, that shoulders getting through,
doesn't matter who the defender is. I've seen him do
it time and time again. I think I agree. Just
the flexibility they have. I love the Bogdanovic move for them,
even though it seems like Tibbs doesn't. Is not like

(39:32):
fully bought into it yet. And I get that, like
he's maybe not the rabid defender the TIBs wants. But
I don't think he's like I don't think he's terrible.
I don't. I don't think he's like Lou Williams. I
mean no disrespect to Lou Williams, but he has enough
size in IQ that I think that he can, uh,
you know, he knows how to cover up for some

(39:52):
of his limitations in a way that you know, a
smaller player, can't.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
I wonder with that. I'll be interested to see if
there if we see some more minutes where he shares
the floor with Anna and Noby, And that's like a
you can cover my back kind of thing, right because
he he has not been able to hold up on
the at the point of attack when you know, guarding
out on the perimeter. So you combine that with I
mean the threes of I think he's around like thirty

(40:19):
six thirty seven percent from three since he got to
New York. But he's had he's had a lot, you know,
been really rough inside the arc. He hasn't really been
creating and knocking down shots the way that they had
hoped for from there, Like they have not gotten what
they had hoped for out of uh uh Bogdanovic and
Alec Burks. Alec Burks, like to put it kindly, they
have gotten what they were looking for.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Were they looking for anything out of Alec Burks?

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Really? You know, maybe Tim just wanted a friend, but
like the but the the I think the idea is
if if you can mix and match some more lineups,
you're expecting less from from Bogdanovitch in terms of you know,
significant output and then also dealing with another team's pretty
good winged you know, wing at hackers. Maybe that you know,

(41:02):
efficiency plays up, the effectiveness plays up, and Tims is
able to sort of get gain some trust in him,
like we've seen stranger things happen. Like I thought, precious
that Chew was basically gonna be staple to the bench
the entire time. I feel I was like Tom Tabodo
is gonna look at that guy do something weird and
then staple him to the bench for the rest of
the season, and then pressures the Chew is now like
his number one favorite boy. So I don't know, like
we will see, but I think the biggest thing when

(41:24):
you were say saying, like how do you feel after
watching this Knicks team or watching this next team now
that ojianna Obe's back, I feel like I just had
to watch Jalen Brunson and Josh Hart and Donte DiVincenzo
go through like an ultra marathon, like you were getting
to the end of them, like just like like like
totally dragging every ounce of strength out of their body.

(41:46):
And now it's like somebody gave them some water and
an energy bar, you know, like that's what. Maybe you've
watched the Knicks play their most like bedraggled basketball this
season and things tick up from here, and if they do,
I don't know, man, I think that could be an
interesting team and.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Spring Anonobe is like the guy when your favorite wrestler
is like getting just beat up in like you know,
an iron Man match or whatever. All of a sudden
he hear his entrance music and it's like, oh my god,
he's come to help the hero out.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
That's og og I now need og Anobi with the
ultimate warrior face paining the tassels, just lots of tassels.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
The dramatic pause is the music comes when he waits
like an extra an extra two beats to actually walk out.
They're an interesting position because, like I said, they're kind
of locked. It's gonna be very difficult for them to
get into the third place. I think there are four
games uh behind the Bucks and Calves right now, at
least four wins behind. I believe. Yeah, the issue they're

(42:46):
going to run into is if they get Boston in
the second round, Like I don't know about that one,
but if they were just somehow getting to the other
side of the bracket, they could that could be really interesting.
Before we get out of here, I just want to
bring up, you know, I did this with the cat earlier,
Like I keep talking about how no one respects the
Calves even though I'm part of the problem, Like I
put them way down on my contender rankings, and I

(43:07):
do think the Calves have a weird problem where like
they're actual starting fives, not good as a starting five
when a couple guys were hurt and they got to
work through that. But they've had a really good season.
The Orlando Magic, I don't know the Mannicks and I
have talked about him at all. In this podcast. There
was a little bit of like Paolo Bencaro discourse, though
it's hard to know what's like actual discourse and what's

(43:29):
just like I don't know, someone saw one tweet that
they got up set about or something. But man, the
Magic have been hooping like they don't score, you know,
even though like we love I think we love Franz
and Palos scores. Jamal Moseley just signs this big, well
deserved extension. I mean, they're holding strong man. We talked
about we talked about the Knicks, and they've been great,

(43:50):
Like Orlando has a chance to sneak into that four seed.
They have a chance to get home court in the
first round, which I don't think anyone had coming into
the season. Yeah, just you know, has to be like,
so tell me what you think about the magic, but
uh please.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
I'll tell you what the hell I think about the Magic.
It's totally fine around. So a couple of things. One
they don't have like a marquee, like recognizable marquee name, right,
So it's a little harder to put your if you
have not watched them the last couple of you know,
year year and a half, you don't really know even
Bonkero coming out of Duke like it wasn't it wasn't

(44:27):
like Zion right, or it wasn't like Jahn Morant where
there was like a level of celebrity attached with that
you sort of a little bit more muted of a prospect.
There was that uncertainty of like is he even gonna
be number one? Is it going to be Jabbari? What
are they gonna do? And like that kind of story.
Orlando not a major market, not on national TV very much.
Orlando bad for like a decade basically straight. Even the

(44:49):
decent Magic teams under Steve Clifford were not exciting and interesting,
so nobody watched them. It's a kind of where you
would have to like try to come in.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Frank Vogel was coaching him with a beard, like that's
a thing that happened.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
That was I remember because when so that was my
in my sort of first run at Yahoo, when I
was doing more of like I'll pick the photos for
the for the blog posts I write, and every time
I had to write about them, it was like, Frank
Vogel looks like he's like needs a bottle of wine
and like, you know, like he's just gonna go listen
to the saddest song you've ever heard, staring at a
body of water for a little while. Yeah, that was

(45:24):
his like it was like something bad. He just needed
some time to kind of like reconnect with himself. And
so yeah, but even like the decent versions of those
teams were like Nick Vucevich and Evan Fournier and DJ
Augustine and so there wasn't like something.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
God, just what a time. I have like erased that
from my memory that they had reached golly all.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
That said, So so there's there wasn't like a basically
since Dawhight Howard, there's not something to really grab onto
with them an identity, and this current iteration, the identity
is defense, and we always have a hard time talking
about that. There's it's not easy to make exciting on
TV or radio or podcasts. It's not easy to always
explain in a way that it's legible. Many of us
don't even really totally understand when coaches are coaching good

(46:09):
defensive tactics or making great adjustments, and so you've got like,
what are your handles to talk about here? Mosy now
is a real interesting one because there's a newspeg of
the of the extension. And it's also like you look
at his arc. He was one of the main assistants
in Dallas. You know, the people in Dallas loved him,

(46:30):
except for maybe Rick Carlisle not so much. But and
he gets this job. The he was an assistant for
fifteen years before he gets this first opportunity. He takes
over a team that was bad and young and had
been I think it was twenty fourth in defensive efficiency
when he took it over, and then since then seventeenth
eleventh fourth, Like they just keep getting better even with

(46:54):
all this youth, and so that is it. That is
not the way it works normally for NBA teams. If
you have a young roster, you are in deep trouble
on the defensive end. He has gotten that buy in.
He's been enough of a teacher to get these guys
on the same page. And that is humongous. The challenge
that they're gonna have they're going to run into is
they are not a good half court offensive team. They

(47:14):
do not have the high end facilitator, playmaker, the kind
of apex guard wing, you know, creator that is going
to unlock a really good defense. And so if you
they're but they will so like somebody that can make
it easier for Pawla Bankara, someone that can make it
easier for Franz Wagner. Those guys as like big wing,

(47:35):
big forwards. They're very good, you know, creators on their own,
but they don't have the they don't have the you know,
it's why like Lillard was a fun idea for them,
or like a healthy Zach Levine's a fun idea for them. Yes,
Aunt Simon's. You know, there are these guys that you
sort of think of as I want the pick and
roll guy you can pull up and then like unlock

(47:55):
all of this. They don't really have that. So if
they go into a series against a team that does
have I mean that does have that kind of scorer,
they're probably going to struggle. But they are going to
make life miserable for every any team that they face
in the first round because that defense travels and they
are big. They are like you get into their bench

(48:17):
and you got to deal with like Cole Anthony is
not huge, but he goes to the glass like a
freaking demon. He's a beast.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Jalen sugs and then they're just talking about their guards,
I mean their front court. Wagner Boncaro.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Going to get into a fight with somebody on national
TV there during a playoff series, although his name after that.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
The brothers are just first team all like we will
talk shit.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Talk about like shoulders and elbows. Those dudes are just
like in there dislodging you. But yeah, like they they
they go. They have these sort of like the ways
they can play are not aesthetically pleasing, yes, but they
can effective and there is real growth, like Paolo Boncaro
being somebody who if he's iow him on the wing,

(49:06):
He's able to face up, get into the post. He's
now drawing help and passing out of that. Like he's
leveling up, and now they've got guys that can shoot.
Suggs you mentioned, goes from basically being like, is he
even gonna be in the league in two years? To
shooting forty percent from three? Is gonna make an all
defense team? Right? Like these advances are happening in real time.
They're not at their final form yet. But this, this

(49:27):
version of this team, I think is gonna make make
life pretty miserable for somebody for a couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Uh, they like they just like put you in a
vice grip the I've pulled up the lineup stats Markel Fultz,
Wendell Carter Junior, Franz, Suggs, Boncaro two hundred and sixty
two minutes, one oh four point eight defensive rating. Uh
you put Gary Harrison for Folts one hundred and thirty
eight minutes. That's a small sample this late in the season,

(49:53):
but a one hundred point seven defensive rating in twenty
twenty four is just insane. Like, that's so oh insane.
I love bon Caaro and I want him to be great,
and I have faith in him. I'll never forget. Like
his rookie year, they needed a bucket laid against the Warriors,
and he just was like he went right at Draymond.

(50:14):
That meant something to me. Yea, Like he plays with fearlessness,
and I don't think he's there yet. But even if
they even if they lose like four to one in
the first round, this is gonna be such a valuable
year for them. Getting Wagner and bon Caro playoff possessions,
half court playoff possessions, whether against the Knicks, whoever's in

(50:36):
that four seed, or whatever matchup they end up getting,
whether it's Cleveland, them having to figure it out in
the half court in a game that slows down, I
think is gonna be immensely beneficial for them. I'm with you,
like I think, as good of as they've been, we've
just seen it now as much as it we've always

(50:56):
talked about being a defensive league. The teams that can't
score in the half court in the playoffs, they just
don't win anymore. Unless you're the heat and you all
of a sudden catch, you know, absurd fire from three.
You you have to have a good half court offense
to win in the playoffs, or a guys that can

(51:16):
win on one on one on one, and I think
Van Karen Wagner can get there. But they're not. They're
not Duranton Booker, and that's no insult. Most of the
league is not. But right, Uh, they've been fantastic and
the growth that they've made, as you mentioned what Moseley's
done in coming got their defense to where it is,
it's a it's already a successful.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Season, absolutely, and you know you talk about the reps
for Jamal Moseley too, right, Like he has not coached
a playoff series yet. We saw that last season where
in that four or five matchup, Thibodeau and JB. Bickerstaff
like JB. Bickerstaff experienced coach, well respected, but also like
they had to figure out what wasn't working with their rotations,

(51:57):
with their lineups, with their roster to be able to
go and then make tweaks, make adjustments. Incomes Max Strue,
in comes George Niang. This is gonna be like a
fact finding mission for Orlando, and I think they are
ahead of schedule in terms of where this iteration of
the team is what was expected to be and they've
got you know, they're gonna have cap space, they're gonna
have additional picks to be able to move. They have

(52:19):
the tools to go and make some adjustments as they
see fit. But now they're gonna find out what they
need and that can be invaluable sort of across the organization.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Absolutely, Dan, you are valuable to any organization. Thank you
so much for hopping on this podcast today. Apologies, you know,
like I've just realized now during our West conversation, we
didn't talk about the timber Wolves. Obviously they're dealing with
the Carl Anthony Townclis. I just feel so upset. We
talk about so many teams. You can at every team
every week, So you know, my apologies to if we

(52:49):
didn't talk about your favorite team today. But we're trying.
We're trying our best.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
You know, that would be not for nothing. You know,
all due respect to the to our brethren who do
like I'm gonna do thirteen teams in twenty nine minutes
and the and like they're on the clock. I respect
the heck out of that. That's not always the way
these conversations go. And expecting everybody to be able to
talk about everything all the time. Is uh, you know
that's that's a large expectation. Don't put that kind of
burden on yourself, Arone. You don't deserve that.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
I appreciate it. Dan, Thank you so much. If you're listening,
make sure you check out Dan on either No cap
Room or Divine Intervention, which I don't know who what
the naming budget is at Yahoo, Like I thought every
good podcast name was taken, and then you come up
with No cap Room, which is like, it's so hard
to find a good pun left on the internet. And

(53:36):
I think I tweeted this at you and Jake like
that one floored me.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
We I'm not gonna say how long that meeting was,
but yeah it is. We we we we know. We
we burn some calories trying to come up with some names.
So I'm that one. I'm glad stuck and I'm glad
we were able to use it. And then Divine Intervention
it was just like they, hey, what is a pun
based on your name? And I was really nervous about that.
I'm like, people are gonna think that's whack. And then
so far no one's been too mad about it.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
So I'll take it not at all, and that meeting
it paid off. Make sure you guys check out Dan's
podcast and we will be back next week. Hm hm
hm h