October 29, 2021 • 20 mins
Beware of higher prices for everyday items. You’ll be paying more for everything from coffee to toilet paper… and big companies are betting that you’ll keep paying those prices. Procter & Gamble, Nestle, Verizon and others all plan to continue raising prices and push customers to more expensive products well into 2022 to help offset the growing costs of the supply chain crisis. Sharon Terlep, consumer products reporter at the WSJ, joins us for why companies think you’ll stick with them as things get more expensive.
Next, Halloween means it’s time for spooky movies and horror movies in general have had quite the evolution. Some of the best horror movies have acted as a mirror reflecting our own fears of the time back at us and built upon each other to get us where we are today. From the early days with the classic movie monsters, to the slashers and serial killer flicks, all the way to modern horror movies, they have all been commentaries of what is going on in the world at the time. Next step will be to see how the pandemic impacts the horror genre. Aja Romano, culture writer at Vox, joins us for the horror century of movies.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Friday, October twenty nine. Hi'm oscar Ramiers in Los Angeles,
and this is the daily dive. Do you were of
higher prices for everyday items? You'll be paying more for
everything from coffee to toilet paper, and big companies are
betting that you'll keep paying those prices. Procter and Gamble,
(00:21):
nest Lee, Verizon, and others all planet continue raising prices
and push customers to more expensive products. Well into this
is all to help offset the growing costs of the
supply chain crisis. Sharon Turlip, consumer products reporter at The
Wall Street Journal, joins us for why companies think you'll
stick with them as things get more expensive. Next Halloween
(00:43):
means it's time for spooky movies, and horror movies in
general have had quite the evolution. Some of the best
horror movies have acted as a mirror, reflecting our own
fears of the time back at us and built upon
each other to get us where we are today. From
the early days of the classic movie Monsters, to the
Slashers and are killer Flakes, all the way to modern
horror movies, they all have been commentaries on what is
(01:05):
going on in the world at the time. Next step
will be to see how the pandemic impacts the horror genre.
Asia Romano, culture writer at Vox, joins us for the
horror Century of movies. It's news without the noise. Let's
die in. So you know, if you get the cell
phone carriers, they're saying, well, we're just going to offer
(01:25):
more premium, high end packages, and that's how we're going
to get higher prices. So they're actually giving more but
expecting that consumers have enough extra money that they're going
to pay more. Joining us now with Sharon Turlett, consumer
products reporter at the Wall Street Journal. Thanks for joining us, Sharon, sure,
thanks for having me. Let's talk about higher prices coming
to consumers. US companies right now, are are actually betting
(01:48):
that shoppers are going to keep paying these higher prices.
You kind of have no choice in some cases, but
you know, a lot of these companies are saying, you know,
our consumers are gonna stick with us, They're gonna keep
doing it. And we're know this because they're telling their
investors to expect revenue growth even as they continue to
do this. So, um, Sharon, tell us what's going on
because we've seen obviously the industry. All the industries be
(02:11):
deeply impacted by supply chain issues inflation, but these companies
are still thinking that consumers are going to keep up
with these higher prices. Sure. Yeah. And what we're seeing
is the biggest companies, so the biggest makers of food,
household products, restaurant chains, cell phone companies. There's two things
that are going on. They have the most recognizable brands,
(02:34):
so there's a lot of demand for their brands, especially
when you look at household products and what people gravitate
to in times of kind of crisis and hardships. And
these are companies that have the ability to work around
or through some of these supply chain issues that some
of their smaller rivals just just can't do. And so
what kind of price increases are we seeing because and
(02:55):
for what products specifically? I know it's home products, raizors,
things like that. As you mentioned, um, some of the
big companies. Nestle is obviously raising prices of coffee. You
know a lot of people are spending more time at home.
So what kind of products, what kind of price increases
are we seeing? So we're seeing two things. One thing
is just price increases. So the same product now cost more,
(03:17):
and we're seeing that around almost every household package food item,
be a toilet, paper, diapers, razors, face cream, coffee, candy, snacks.
And then what we're also seeing is these companies are
confident that people are willing to pay more for better products.
(03:38):
So you know, if you get the cell phone carriers,
they're saying, well, we're just going to offer more premium,
high end packages, and that's how we're going to get
higher prices. So they're actually giving more but expecting that
consumers have enough extra money that they're going to pay more.
And the bet is that they think consumers still have
a lot of extrac extra cash from things like stimulus payments,
(03:59):
things that they saved while they were going through the pandemic,
and even shifting that money to more things at home
versus going out and going on vacations eating out all
that stuff. This is where they they say the consumer
has more money. And the big question though, is when
will shoppers start seeking out those cheaper items. This is
kind of that gamble right now. It's definitely a gamble.
(04:21):
I mean, I think particularly you know practor and Gamble
tends to sell higher and items. One of their hot
sellers is you know, a three electric toothbrush. So it's
products that have more features but also are quite expensive.
And you know, there's the same thing that's causing the
supply chain problems. People are spending their money on things
as opposed to services. So that's why, you know, that's
(04:43):
why everything's caught up in shipping. But it also means
that people are willing to pay some on Wall Street.
You know, you're starting to see the first kind of
you know, a little bit of handwringing over you know, yes,
but when home heating and gas prices and car prices,
you know, when these all increase, are you're going to
see an end or a kind of a you know,
reduction in this willingness to spend money. You did speak
(05:06):
to a few consumers and they all kind of said
the same, you know, a similar thing. I guess, uh
really don't have a choice. Even those that said, Okay,
maybe we will start seeking out some cheap right, I'm
still said, you know what, but I'm probably not going
to change my habits that much. I'm probably gonna stay
loyal to these big brands kind of what you're saying
at the beginning. Yeah, And that's you know, because when
(05:26):
consumers cut back, typically it's not you know, they don't
it's not saving money on laundry detergent, you know, it's
often bigger expenses and when people feel kind of more
confined to their homes, And this is certainly the phenomenon
we've seen in COVID. It's like, I want to get
the you know, I want my clothes to be the softest,
you know, I want to trust my cleaning products more.
(05:46):
I want them to smell good. So it's almost counterintuitive
and that the more kind of stuck at home and
the more uncertain thing things are, the more people are
willing to spend on these smaller kind of household items.
US grocers, the supermarkets all that they've been insulating consumers
from some of the price increases too, because obviously the
companies sell them to the retailers and then the retailers
(06:08):
set the prices for us. They're getting to the point
where they're going to start raising those prices as well.
But there has this been kind of a little safety
and I guess for the consumers maybe why some people
haven't noticed it as much even and there's two reasons
people haven't noticed so. First, as exactly as you said,
the increases that have been around maybe in the five
percent range that the companies have announced, and then the
(06:29):
retailers may offset that, so you may be seeing increases
more one or you know, along the lines of one
or two. And another factor is that it takes a
long time for these prices to get out to the market.
So P and G, you know, it was much earlier
this year announced price increases, they only started to take
effect in September, So for a couple of reasons, consumers
haven't seen all these increases yet, you know, in their pocketbooks.
(06:53):
And the last thing I wanted to mention because technology
and artificial intelligence is always looming. All of these companies
know how you shop, so it allows them to set
this pricing in a much more targeted manner. So if
they know you're a discount shopper, you know, they'll push
some of those discounts. If they know that you're one
that pays full price for things, well you're going to
continue to keep paying full price and probably more. Absolutely,
(07:16):
there's variation right down to the consumer. And even when
it comes to locations, you know, um, you know, conventional
wisdom might say an urban you know, a store in
a big city like New York or Chicago would have
higher prices. However, if you're a store in kind of
a grocery desert where you know that the people don't
have any other options in rural America, prices also could
be higher there. I mean, so it really you know,
(07:39):
there's not like a one cost for any item, which
just varies widely. Sharon Turlip, consumer products reporter at The
Wall Street Journal, thank you very much for joining us.
Thank you. Jos now Is, Asia Romano, culture writer at Vox,
(08:17):
Thanks for joining us. Asia, my pleasure, Thanks for having me.
Let's talk about horror movies. You recently wrote an article
called the Horror Century, basically looking at how horror movies
have evolved, built on top of each other and really
posed as a reflection to American life and obviously the
world as well, but really just pose as a reflection
(08:39):
to what's going on at the time. I love horror movies.
I've been trying to get as many in as possible.
You know right now that it's uh, we're getting up
onto Halloween and everything. Um, so it's a perfect time
to talk about this. Let's start off with with that though,
just kind of how these horror movies really are a
reflection of we're seeing what we're seeing at the time.
I think it's great that you love I think a
(09:00):
lot of people do love horror and instinctively recognize that
about horror, that you know, there's something about a movie
that looks at what we fear and what we're afraid of,
and that kind of gets that this collective subconscious anxiety. Right.
Sometimes we may not really understand what we're afraid of
until we see a horror movie that allegorizes it for us, right,
(09:20):
And I think we see that throughout the cinema century.
If we look back at sort of the trajectory of
these films, you know, from from like the monster movies
of the universal era, right, whereas these monsters were sort
of standing in standing in for very like concrete things,
through to like the more allegorical films of like the
six season seventies and and even now today with lots
(09:42):
of movies that are really nebulous and metaphorical and really
kind of cool, and the way that they the more
abstract they are, the more you can read into them
and project your own fears onto them. Pre war Hollywood,
you know, the big monster type movies, the popularized by
Universal Studios, you know, drag Ella, Frankenstein. You know, we're
looking at actors like Bella Legosi, Boris card Loft, Line Cheney.
(10:05):
How did these play out? Sounds like these, you know
are being made after World War One, right, and so
they people are really kind of reeling from this from
the first modern war, right, so you have things that
are sort of like a lot of the plots of
these movies are kind of pitting the old world against
the new world, right, Like this idea of tradition m
(10:26):
being obliterated in the wake of in the wake of
modernity and modern cities, and lots of these monsters, these
supernatural creatures kind of invading these really urbane, cosmopologian cities
and just sort of taking over everything. Obviously, these kind
of set up so much for the future as well,
you know, talking about how other movies build upon that.
(10:48):
Um you know, these monsters themselves, especially as I mentioned
from Universal Studios, really just the class the big classic
monsters that were that are been around since then, right,
A very different are absolutely and you know a lot
of these really deal directly with the idea of the
other the other with the capital Oh, this idea that
(11:10):
people who sort of control the narrative can often turn someone,
you know, turned the quote unquote other into a scapegoat
for all kinds of anxieties, right, and project all kinds
of fears onto them. And a lot of times these
films are really exploring, either directly or indirectly, what happens
when the quote other is connected directly to the self somehow, right,
Like you know, you have the things like the Invisible
(11:32):
Man or the Wolfman, or like cat people even you know,
this idea that the protagonist could be the person who
is is somehow corrupted and turned into the evil. And
then of course you have that that basic kind of
morality like moral um dilemma being plumbed throughout horror and
really built on through you know, as we get into
(11:54):
more modern crises like the like the environmental crisis films
with the fifties and sixties and so forth, and and
then of course in today with all kinds of deconstructions
of that idea. Yeah, let's let's move on to post
war kind of this atomic age where we do see
a lot of environmental and technology, uh, you know, alien
monstrosities that was a huge factor for even these huge,
(12:18):
big monster movies like Godzilla, you know, a big impact
on Japanese films and things that we saw also here
on the American side, right exactly. And I think that's
really interesting to think about in terms of how we
view like right now, I think a lot of our
anxieties are really apocalyptic. And what's unique about, you know,
the Godzilla films is that they were there rose in
(12:40):
the wake of an actual apocalypse, right like, this is
Japan's kind of attempt to really grapple with, you know,
the worst thing that could possibly happen to humanity having
just happened to them, you know. And and so Godzilla
was really an interesting figure because he represents not only
the worst that mankind can do, but he represents sort
of the ability to rebuild and um to kind of reclaim,
(13:01):
reclaim since theatroll over the atomic age, and he ultimately,
you know, in many films later in the franchise, becomes
kind of a friend to and like an ally of
humans in some degree. So we also saw the rise
of bad kids scary kids in the sixties, uh, you know,
movies like The Bad Seed and uh and others, you know,
children of the Corn things like that. So obviously that
(13:23):
that's all extends, everything builds upon each other. But you know,
these are the kind of the first times when we
were seeing these scary kids come up too. And you
think about that is you know, a reaction to you know,
fifties modern house libory, right, and like the way that
in the post war era you had women really really
really claiming um their territories, you know, suburban moms and
(13:45):
so forth, and you had this idea of of you know,
modern feminism sort of sprouting seed and taking root in
in the collective conscious. And the dark underbelly of that,
I think is what we see in these types of
movies where you have these you know, cherubic little girls
and boys being raised in these idealic households, but yet
there's something warped and twisted about them, right, and like
(14:08):
what that does to your idea of like the modern
picket fence family and so forth. Right, So I think
that's really and and that of course really kind of
is a precursor to all of the psycho sexual madness
that happens in horror films in the sixties and seventies. Yeah,
that's the next phase of it, right, the psycho sexuality,
deac cult, serial killers really became huge there. I mean
(14:29):
you started off with psycho, but you get into things
like Halloween, Texas, Chainsaw Massacre, you will see kind of
more more blood in these movies where you wouldn't see
so much of that before exactly. And you know a
lot of the films of the fifties, whether their horror
or not, are characterized and even before the fifties, um,
the whole basically up until the nineteen fifties, cinema is
(14:52):
sort of characterized to a degree by this idea of
repression because you have the Hollywood Hayze Code really kind
of putting a layer of censorship for everything and what
you can't can and can't say and do and show
on screen. Right. But then in nineteen sixty eight, the
Hayes Code ended and that censorship was was lift was
lifted basically, and from that point on it was kind
(15:12):
of like all bets were off. So you really have
this period of gleeful unrepression. I think of all of
these more sordid themes and ideas, and that really I
think ties into the idea of all of the occult
activity that you had in warror films of the period,
you had lots of explorations of Satanism, lots of things
like demonic possession and other types of like supernatural activity
(15:36):
that really we're supposed to kind of mirror the way
that basically like the human psyche was kind of breaking
down in response to modernity, I think. And so that's
why when you get these big, big films like The
Exorcist and Rosemary's Baby, right that we're just so seismically
impactful in terms of how they changed our ideas of
satan Basically, let's move on to kind of the next
(16:00):
are you know the pre nine eleven era civilization can
protect you? You talk a lot about how American modernity,
how things happen in malls. You're really not safe anywhere
in all of this. Uh, you know, we talk about
movies like The Gremlins, one of my favorites, also to
Nightmare and Elm Street. You're really everywhere is fair game
for for horror now? Yeah, exactly. And I think that's
(16:23):
one big, one big characteristic of of horror films of
like the eighties and so forth, is that they play
around with this idea that there's nowhere that's really safe.
And I think that's such a powerful idea because we
see it play out everywhere, whether it's on the beach
and Jaws, or whether it's in shopping malls right during
with the Zombie trilogy, Ramiro Zombie Trilogy, or even in
(16:45):
your dreams with something like Nightmare on Elm Street. Um.
And I think the kind of the the pinnacle film
of that of that idea is the Blair Witch Project,
where you have these kids that are really like modern,
like even today they spoke them across, is like modern,
very modern then like current kids. You know, they've been
raised in a very safe environment and very you know,
like you know, by people with all the privilege that
(17:08):
the Reagan era afforded economically. Right. So they're these very
self assured kids. They're from college. They're going into the
woods for what's supposed to be this you know, easy
student documentary film weekend, right, and then everything goes to
hell and all of the like these these this huge
like van full of assorted trappings that they've brought with
(17:28):
them from civilization just proves completely inadequate and they wind
up like arguing over a map in the woods, right,
and that map basically kind of becomes sort of a
before and after point you can think of horror cinema
like because before basically with the Blair Which project, there's
this idea that you have this map and it's lost,
like you're completely off the map, like here they're the dragons,
(17:50):
right um. But then nine eleven happens, and I think
with nine eleven you have this emerging idea that I
think Core really plays with that there never was a
map to begin with, and we're all lost, and we're
all just sort of waking up to the bleakness of
that idea, right and you and we see a kind
of reinterpretation of a bunch of traditional horror formulas after this.
(18:11):
But as you mentioned, it's kind of like how horror
looks like in the real world, connections to to loss
and other violence and things like that, and and this
is kind of what happens posteleven exactly, And to some
extent you had to set up with with with Scream
basically with the advent of Scream in Um and how
(18:31):
that allowed or to really kind of become self aware overnight.
And we really saw that the trajectory, the progression of
that play out throughout the two thousands and and even
into today. Um, you have sort of this idea of
genres talking to each other, of the genre talking directly
to the audience in some ways, and it all sort
of plays with within this this realm of this idea
(18:52):
that there are no narrative rules anymore. So then you
have films like you have films like twenty eight Days
Later that are um, you know, it's a traditional playing
with the traditional zombie um formula, but it's layering all
these other really dark nihilistic commentaries about about social decay
and man's in humanity command and so forth, like on
(19:14):
top of it in this way that really kind of
really refreshes the genre. Asia Romano, culture writer at Vox,
Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you my
pleasure heard. That's it for today. Join us on social
(19:35):
media at Daily Dive pod on both Twitter and Instagram.
Leave us a comment, give us a rating, and tell
us the stories that you're interested in. Follow us on
I Heart Radio, or subscribe for ever you get your podcast.
This episode of The Daily Dive is produced by Victor
Wright and engineered by Tony Sarrantino. I'm Oscar Ramirez and
this was her Daily Dive
It's Friday, October twenty nine. Hi'm oscar Ramiers in Los Angeles,
and this is the daily dive. Do you were of
higher prices for everyday items? You'll be paying more for
everything from coffee to toilet paper, and big companies are
betting that you'll keep paying those prices. Procter and Gamble,
(00:21):
nest Lee, Verizon, and others all planet continue raising prices
and push customers to more expensive products. Well into this
is all to help offset the growing costs of the
supply chain crisis. Sharon Turlip, consumer products reporter at The
Wall Street Journal, joins us for why companies think you'll
stick with them as things get more expensive. Next Halloween
(00:43):
means it's time for spooky movies, and horror movies in
general have had quite the evolution. Some of the best
horror movies have acted as a mirror, reflecting our own
fears of the time back at us and built upon
each other to get us where we are today. From
the early days of the classic movie Monsters, to the
Slashers and are killer Flakes, all the way to modern
horror movies, they all have been commentaries on what is
(01:05):
going on in the world at the time. Next step
will be to see how the pandemic impacts the horror genre.
Asia Romano, culture writer at Vox, joins us for the
horror Century of movies. It's news without the noise. Let's
die in. So you know, if you get the cell
phone carriers, they're saying, well, we're just going to offer
(01:25):
more premium, high end packages, and that's how we're going
to get higher prices. So they're actually giving more but
expecting that consumers have enough extra money that they're going
to pay more. Joining us now with Sharon Turlett, consumer
products reporter at the Wall Street Journal. Thanks for joining us, Sharon, sure,
thanks for having me. Let's talk about higher prices coming
to consumers. US companies right now, are are actually betting
(01:48):
that shoppers are going to keep paying these higher prices.
You kind of have no choice in some cases, but
you know, a lot of these companies are saying, you know,
our consumers are gonna stick with us, They're gonna keep
doing it. And we're know this because they're telling their
investors to expect revenue growth even as they continue to
do this. So, um, Sharon, tell us what's going on
because we've seen obviously the industry. All the industries be
(02:11):
deeply impacted by supply chain issues inflation, but these companies
are still thinking that consumers are going to keep up
with these higher prices. Sure. Yeah. And what we're seeing
is the biggest companies, so the biggest makers of food,
household products, restaurant chains, cell phone companies. There's two things
that are going on. They have the most recognizable brands,
(02:34):
so there's a lot of demand for their brands, especially
when you look at household products and what people gravitate
to in times of kind of crisis and hardships. And
these are companies that have the ability to work around
or through some of these supply chain issues that some
of their smaller rivals just just can't do. And so
what kind of price increases are we seeing because and
(02:55):
for what products specifically? I know it's home products, raizors,
things like that. As you mentioned, um, some of the
big companies. Nestle is obviously raising prices of coffee. You
know a lot of people are spending more time at home.
So what kind of products, what kind of price increases
are we seeing? So we're seeing two things. One thing
is just price increases. So the same product now cost more,
(03:17):
and we're seeing that around almost every household package food item,
be a toilet, paper, diapers, razors, face cream, coffee, candy, snacks.
And then what we're also seeing is these companies are
confident that people are willing to pay more for better products.
(03:38):
So you know, if you get the cell phone carriers,
they're saying, well, we're just going to offer more premium,
high end packages, and that's how we're going to get
higher prices. So they're actually giving more but expecting that
consumers have enough extra money that they're going to pay more.
And the bet is that they think consumers still have
a lot of extrac extra cash from things like stimulus payments,
(03:59):
things that they saved while they were going through the pandemic,
and even shifting that money to more things at home
versus going out and going on vacations eating out all
that stuff. This is where they they say the consumer
has more money. And the big question though, is when
will shoppers start seeking out those cheaper items. This is
kind of that gamble right now. It's definitely a gamble.
(04:21):
I mean, I think particularly you know practor and Gamble
tends to sell higher and items. One of their hot
sellers is you know, a three electric toothbrush. So it's
products that have more features but also are quite expensive.
And you know, there's the same thing that's causing the
supply chain problems. People are spending their money on things
as opposed to services. So that's why, you know, that's
(04:43):
why everything's caught up in shipping. But it also means
that people are willing to pay some on Wall Street.
You know, you're starting to see the first kind of
you know, a little bit of handwringing over you know, yes,
but when home heating and gas prices and car prices,
you know, when these all increase, are you're going to
see an end or a kind of a you know,
reduction in this willingness to spend money. You did speak
(05:06):
to a few consumers and they all kind of said
the same, you know, a similar thing. I guess, uh
really don't have a choice. Even those that said, Okay,
maybe we will start seeking out some cheap right, I'm
still said, you know what, but I'm probably not going
to change my habits that much. I'm probably gonna stay
loyal to these big brands kind of what you're saying
at the beginning. Yeah, And that's you know, because when
(05:26):
consumers cut back, typically it's not you know, they don't
it's not saving money on laundry detergent, you know, it's
often bigger expenses and when people feel kind of more
confined to their homes, And this is certainly the phenomenon
we've seen in COVID. It's like, I want to get
the you know, I want my clothes to be the softest,
you know, I want to trust my cleaning products more.
(05:46):
I want them to smell good. So it's almost counterintuitive
and that the more kind of stuck at home and
the more uncertain thing things are, the more people are
willing to spend on these smaller kind of household items.
US grocers, the supermarkets all that they've been insulating consumers
from some of the price increases too, because obviously the
companies sell them to the retailers and then the retailers
(06:08):
set the prices for us. They're getting to the point
where they're going to start raising those prices as well.
But there has this been kind of a little safety
and I guess for the consumers maybe why some people
haven't noticed it as much even and there's two reasons
people haven't noticed so. First, as exactly as you said,
the increases that have been around maybe in the five
percent range that the companies have announced, and then the
(06:29):
retailers may offset that, so you may be seeing increases
more one or you know, along the lines of one
or two. And another factor is that it takes a
long time for these prices to get out to the market.
So P and G, you know, it was much earlier
this year announced price increases, they only started to take
effect in September, So for a couple of reasons, consumers
haven't seen all these increases yet, you know, in their pocketbooks.
(06:53):
And the last thing I wanted to mention because technology
and artificial intelligence is always looming. All of these companies
know how you shop, so it allows them to set
this pricing in a much more targeted manner. So if
they know you're a discount shopper, you know, they'll push
some of those discounts. If they know that you're one
that pays full price for things, well you're going to
continue to keep paying full price and probably more. Absolutely,
(07:16):
there's variation right down to the consumer. And even when
it comes to locations, you know, um, you know, conventional
wisdom might say an urban you know, a store in
a big city like New York or Chicago would have
higher prices. However, if you're a store in kind of
a grocery desert where you know that the people don't
have any other options in rural America, prices also could
be higher there. I mean, so it really you know,
(07:39):
there's not like a one cost for any item, which
just varies widely. Sharon Turlip, consumer products reporter at The
Wall Street Journal, thank you very much for joining us.
Thank you. Jos now Is, Asia Romano, culture writer at Vox,
(08:17):
Thanks for joining us. Asia, my pleasure, Thanks for having me.
Let's talk about horror movies. You recently wrote an article
called the Horror Century, basically looking at how horror movies
have evolved, built on top of each other and really
posed as a reflection to American life and obviously the
world as well, but really just pose as a reflection
(08:39):
to what's going on at the time. I love horror movies.
I've been trying to get as many in as possible.
You know right now that it's uh, we're getting up
onto Halloween and everything. Um, so it's a perfect time
to talk about this. Let's start off with with that though,
just kind of how these horror movies really are a
reflection of we're seeing what we're seeing at the time.
I think it's great that you love I think a
(09:00):
lot of people do love horror and instinctively recognize that
about horror, that you know, there's something about a movie
that looks at what we fear and what we're afraid of,
and that kind of gets that this collective subconscious anxiety. Right.
Sometimes we may not really understand what we're afraid of
until we see a horror movie that allegorizes it for us, right,
(09:20):
And I think we see that throughout the cinema century.
If we look back at sort of the trajectory of
these films, you know, from from like the monster movies
of the universal era, right, whereas these monsters were sort
of standing in standing in for very like concrete things,
through to like the more allegorical films of like the
six season seventies and and even now today with lots
(09:42):
of movies that are really nebulous and metaphorical and really
kind of cool, and the way that they the more
abstract they are, the more you can read into them
and project your own fears onto them. Pre war Hollywood,
you know, the big monster type movies, the popularized by
Universal Studios, you know, drag Ella, Frankenstein. You know, we're
looking at actors like Bella Legosi, Boris card Loft, Line Cheney.
(10:05):
How did these play out? Sounds like these, you know
are being made after World War One, right, and so
they people are really kind of reeling from this from
the first modern war, right, so you have things that
are sort of like a lot of the plots of
these movies are kind of pitting the old world against
the new world, right, Like this idea of tradition m
(10:26):
being obliterated in the wake of in the wake of
modernity and modern cities, and lots of these monsters, these
supernatural creatures kind of invading these really urbane, cosmopologian cities
and just sort of taking over everything. Obviously, these kind
of set up so much for the future as well,
you know, talking about how other movies build upon that.
(10:48):
Um you know, these monsters themselves, especially as I mentioned
from Universal Studios, really just the class the big classic
monsters that were that are been around since then, right,
A very different are absolutely and you know a lot
of these really deal directly with the idea of the
other the other with the capital Oh, this idea that
(11:10):
people who sort of control the narrative can often turn someone,
you know, turned the quote unquote other into a scapegoat
for all kinds of anxieties, right, and project all kinds
of fears onto them. And a lot of times these
films are really exploring, either directly or indirectly, what happens
when the quote other is connected directly to the self somehow, right,
Like you know, you have the things like the Invisible
(11:32):
Man or the Wolfman, or like cat people even you know,
this idea that the protagonist could be the person who
is is somehow corrupted and turned into the evil. And
then of course you have that that basic kind of
morality like moral um dilemma being plumbed throughout horror and
really built on through you know, as we get into
(11:54):
more modern crises like the like the environmental crisis films
with the fifties and sixties and so forth, and and
then of course in today with all kinds of deconstructions
of that idea. Yeah, let's let's move on to post
war kind of this atomic age where we do see
a lot of environmental and technology, uh, you know, alien
monstrosities that was a huge factor for even these huge,
(12:18):
big monster movies like Godzilla, you know, a big impact
on Japanese films and things that we saw also here
on the American side, right exactly. And I think that's
really interesting to think about in terms of how we
view like right now, I think a lot of our
anxieties are really apocalyptic. And what's unique about, you know,
the Godzilla films is that they were there rose in
(12:40):
the wake of an actual apocalypse, right like, this is
Japan's kind of attempt to really grapple with, you know,
the worst thing that could possibly happen to humanity having
just happened to them, you know. And and so Godzilla
was really an interesting figure because he represents not only
the worst that mankind can do, but he represents sort
of the ability to rebuild and um to kind of reclaim,
(13:01):
reclaim since theatroll over the atomic age, and he ultimately,
you know, in many films later in the franchise, becomes
kind of a friend to and like an ally of
humans in some degree. So we also saw the rise
of bad kids scary kids in the sixties, uh, you know,
movies like The Bad Seed and uh and others, you know,
children of the Corn things like that. So obviously that
(13:23):
that's all extends, everything builds upon each other. But you know,
these are the kind of the first times when we
were seeing these scary kids come up too. And you
think about that is you know, a reaction to you know,
fifties modern house libory, right, and like the way that
in the post war era you had women really really
really claiming um their territories, you know, suburban moms and
(13:45):
so forth, and you had this idea of of you know,
modern feminism sort of sprouting seed and taking root in
in the collective conscious. And the dark underbelly of that,
I think is what we see in these types of
movies where you have these you know, cherubic little girls
and boys being raised in these idealic households, but yet
there's something warped and twisted about them, right, and like
(14:08):
what that does to your idea of like the modern
picket fence family and so forth. Right, So I think
that's really and and that of course really kind of
is a precursor to all of the psycho sexual madness
that happens in horror films in the sixties and seventies. Yeah,
that's the next phase of it, right, the psycho sexuality,
deac cult, serial killers really became huge there. I mean
(14:29):
you started off with psycho, but you get into things
like Halloween, Texas, Chainsaw Massacre, you will see kind of
more more blood in these movies where you wouldn't see
so much of that before exactly. And you know a
lot of the films of the fifties, whether their horror
or not, are characterized and even before the fifties, um,
the whole basically up until the nineteen fifties, cinema is
(14:52):
sort of characterized to a degree by this idea of
repression because you have the Hollywood Hayze Code really kind
of putting a layer of censorship for everything and what
you can't can and can't say and do and show
on screen. Right. But then in nineteen sixty eight, the
Hayes Code ended and that censorship was was lift was
lifted basically, and from that point on it was kind
(15:12):
of like all bets were off. So you really have
this period of gleeful unrepression. I think of all of
these more sordid themes and ideas, and that really I
think ties into the idea of all of the occult
activity that you had in warror films of the period,
you had lots of explorations of Satanism, lots of things
like demonic possession and other types of like supernatural activity
(15:36):
that really we're supposed to kind of mirror the way
that basically like the human psyche was kind of breaking
down in response to modernity, I think. And so that's
why when you get these big, big films like The
Exorcist and Rosemary's Baby, right that we're just so seismically
impactful in terms of how they changed our ideas of
satan Basically, let's move on to kind of the next
(16:00):
are you know the pre nine eleven era civilization can
protect you? You talk a lot about how American modernity,
how things happen in malls. You're really not safe anywhere
in all of this. Uh, you know, we talk about
movies like The Gremlins, one of my favorites, also to
Nightmare and Elm Street. You're really everywhere is fair game
for for horror now? Yeah, exactly. And I think that's
(16:23):
one big, one big characteristic of of horror films of
like the eighties and so forth, is that they play
around with this idea that there's nowhere that's really safe.
And I think that's such a powerful idea because we
see it play out everywhere, whether it's on the beach
and Jaws, or whether it's in shopping malls right during
with the Zombie trilogy, Ramiro Zombie Trilogy, or even in
(16:45):
your dreams with something like Nightmare on Elm Street. Um.
And I think the kind of the the pinnacle film
of that of that idea is the Blair Witch Project,
where you have these kids that are really like modern,
like even today they spoke them across, is like modern,
very modern then like current kids. You know, they've been
raised in a very safe environment and very you know,
like you know, by people with all the privilege that
(17:08):
the Reagan era afforded economically. Right. So they're these very
self assured kids. They're from college. They're going into the
woods for what's supposed to be this you know, easy
student documentary film weekend, right, and then everything goes to
hell and all of the like these these this huge
like van full of assorted trappings that they've brought with
(17:28):
them from civilization just proves completely inadequate and they wind
up like arguing over a map in the woods, right,
and that map basically kind of becomes sort of a
before and after point you can think of horror cinema
like because before basically with the Blair Which project, there's
this idea that you have this map and it's lost,
like you're completely off the map, like here they're the dragons,
(17:50):
right um. But then nine eleven happens, and I think
with nine eleven you have this emerging idea that I
think Core really plays with that there never was a
map to begin with, and we're all lost, and we're
all just sort of waking up to the bleakness of
that idea, right and you and we see a kind
of reinterpretation of a bunch of traditional horror formulas after this.
(18:11):
But as you mentioned, it's kind of like how horror
looks like in the real world, connections to to loss
and other violence and things like that, and and this
is kind of what happens posteleven exactly, And to some
extent you had to set up with with with Scream
basically with the advent of Scream in Um and how
(18:31):
that allowed or to really kind of become self aware overnight.
And we really saw that the trajectory, the progression of
that play out throughout the two thousands and and even
into today. Um, you have sort of this idea of
genres talking to each other, of the genre talking directly
to the audience in some ways, and it all sort
of plays with within this this realm of this idea
(18:52):
that there are no narrative rules anymore. So then you
have films like you have films like twenty eight Days
Later that are um, you know, it's a traditional playing
with the traditional zombie um formula, but it's layering all
these other really dark nihilistic commentaries about about social decay
and man's in humanity command and so forth, like on
(19:14):
top of it in this way that really kind of
really refreshes the genre. Asia Romano, culture writer at Vox,
Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you my
pleasure heard. That's it for today. Join us on social
(19:35):
media at Daily Dive pod on both Twitter and Instagram.
Leave us a comment, give us a rating, and tell
us the stories that you're interested in. Follow us on
I Heart Radio, or subscribe for ever you get your podcast.
This episode of The Daily Dive is produced by Victor
Wright and engineered by Tony Sarrantino. I'm Oscar Ramirez and
this was her Daily Dive
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