May 27, 2024 • 34 mins
Jordan Klepper sits down with TDS Supervising Producer, Ian Berger, to break down the motivation and takeaways from their latest special, ‘Jordan Klepper Fingers the Pulse: Moscow Tools.’ As pro-Russia and pro-Putin sentiment grows among Republicans, Klepper details the significance of Americans shifting their views on Russian authoritarianism at the direction of Donald Trump and with the help of Russian disinformation.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hello, and welcome to The Daily Show Ears edition. This
is Ian Berger, supervising producer for The Daily Show. We're
here with Daily Show contributor fresh off a trip to Estonia,
right near the Russian border, Jordan Klepper.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome, Thank you, Jordan.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We're talking about your special. It's called Jordan Klepper Fingers
the Pulse Moscow Tools, which is available to stream on
Paramount Plus, the Daily Show's YouTube channel and video on demand. Jordan,
what was it like making this special?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Well, I'm gonna say it's our special.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
We've done four specials now, a lot of.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Specials, and they're all special.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
They are all specials. This one was, Honestly, I really
liked the process of making this special. I think we're
we're finding an interesting rhythm of like this one. This one,
we were discovering something on the road. We go out
in the road, we do the Fingers of the Pulse pieces.
We're discuss seen in discovering a shift in the narrative
around Russia, and suddenly people on the road are embracing
(01:07):
Vladimir Putin. They're talking about how beautiful Moscow looks, and
it feels like a one to eighty from Ronald Reagan's.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Dop Absolutely, and I think obviously we kind of encounter
some of this and you read about this stuff in
the news, and so you start down this path and
we're like, we're gonna go out into these rallies and
see if this is actually what they're talking about. And honestly,
the very first interview at the very first rally we
did in rainy, freezing Green Bay, that woman was like,
I love watching Vladimir Putin videos, Like right off the
(01:35):
bat home run.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Putin is a thatw leader runs this country. Here's a
respectful person's worst country. What do you like about Vladimir Putin?
The way is Lena's country is off for freedom. I
used to watch the videos fishing, horseback riding back.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
In the day.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
You do just for fun. You watch Putin horseback riding videos.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Yeah, who's a better leader, Vladimir Putin or Joe Biden Putin?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
She said, just to calm her down.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
If watching Vladimir Putin fish and ride shirtless on a
horse was like watching cute cat videos for her.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, we were surprised. It was amazing. Like once it's
kind of like you start off with that and you realize, well,
this is actually a story.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yep. Well even I remember we were starting to ask
people too.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
There was a stat that came out that said the
MAGA voter base thinks Joe Biden is more than fifty
percent thinks Vladimir Putin is a better president than Joe Biden,
which seemed like a big number. But as we started
asking people about this, I think, I think, gosh darn,
every single person at this event had no problem lauding
(02:38):
Vladimir Putin, especially when put up against Joe Biden. And
so this is where we started to say, like, oh,
this is this is a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, so for us and for you, And like, what
I think we're trying to discover was there is this
shift that happened in this part because traditionally the Republicans
are not a party that seems to be so cool
with Russia.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Yeah, that seemed to be kind of their their whole
calling card for a little while.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Right when I was a kid, that was the thing
that was Reagan's thing, and that was what they're very
proud of. But it seems to have changed. So to
explore that change, what are some other things you wanted
to do in this special and people you wanted to
talk to.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
I think a large question that bubbled up quickly as
we started to look into this was is this a
special about Russian misinformation? Yes, but it's very much a
special about American gullibility of like are we these useful idiots?
Which is a term Vladimir Lenin supposedly coined about American journalists,
that they were useful idiots, that they could be fed
(03:35):
Russian propaganda and utilize it and put it out there
for Russia's benefit. And so we wanted to look at
the American useful idiots, both those in power and those
in power who speak to the people out at the rallies.
But it was also bringing up a secondary question that
was worth exploring for us, which is beyond are we
naive and just embracing Russian misinformation that has.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Fed to us?
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Or is there a big part of the Republican Party
right now that truly pines for Vladimir Putin's Russia that
really wants an autocracy and the anti wokeness and the
anti LGBTQ community that Putin promises. I think that's a bigger,
scarier question that the Republican Party is reckoning with right now,
and so we wanted to jump in and talk to
(04:17):
people kind of surrounding those questions.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, and one of the first interviews we did was
actually with a well known Republican who's not someone you
would often sit down and talk to, but had kind
of the opposite view of how we should be approaching Russia.
That was John Bolton. You want to tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
We sat down with the messager John Bolton, and I
think we talked, especially offline, about this of like, this
story is so wild and bonkers and important existentially that
we find ourselves at a special like this talking to
John Bolton and talking to an Estonian prime minister about
the same thing. And John Bolton a part of three
(04:55):
Republican administrations. He was right there with Donald Trump, and
as we've talked about, he's a guy who saw this
up close, so much so that now he rails against it.
He speaks out against the dangers of Donald Trump and
his Putin fandom. And so we thought it was in
if we're going to talk to a Republican about the
change in the GOP, we might as well talk to
(05:16):
the most Republican Republican we could find, and that was
John Bolden, who's been in the room and has some
opinions about that.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
It's just antithetical not just to the philosophical beliefs of
Ronald Reagan, but to the positive attitude about America and
its prospects.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
So Reagan wakes up and he's shocked, right, And he's
also like, what is this internet thing? Maybe we should
send Stephen Saghal over there to kick Putin's ass. Wait a minute,
Steven sagh already lives there. This is all too confusing.
Let's just go back to ignoring aids.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
I think he'd be stunned that the Republican Party had
anything to do with Donald Trump.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
What is Trump's infatuation with Putin?
Speaker 6 (05:52):
Well? I think he has a fascination with authoritarian leaders generally.
I think Trump would like to be a big guy,
but I don't think he's enough to be a dictator.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So is Trump what's the term an idiot? Well?
Speaker 6 (06:06):
I think Rex Tillerson had the iconic two word description
of Trump, the first word I won't repeat even on
your show, the second of which was moron.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Okay, I'll throw it in there.
Speaker 5 (06:17):
That's that's pretty much on point, Yes, Maura, Right, can
a moron still be a useful idiot?
Speaker 6 (06:24):
I think the answer to that yes, And I think
Vladimir Putin understands it.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And it was a good interview and it was friendly,
which I think a lot of people might think was
weird for us, and it's unexpected, Like this is not
a story where we're going out to freed John Bolden
for being kind of a warhawk. This is a story
about's happening in the Republican Party now that he witnessed
first hand, which I think is kind of like what
we wanted out of him.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
And yeah, god, I mean, we did have some conversations
in the room about the Iraq War and if some
of his his pushing for American overseas interventionism, if that
causes and has some effects with people today being skittish
about funding our military.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
We talked a little bit about that.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
But I think when we're putting this piece together, when
we were talking about what the overall arc was, it
was about looking forward as to like, who, what do
we need to know about Donald Trump and his feelings
towards Ladimir Putin and more so also this party that
he heads right now. Why has it moved in this direction?
And Bolton was was remarkably enlightening about all of that.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
And obviously Bolton can speak to kind of global threats
that Russia poses that maybe well, certainly Donald Trump wasn't comprehending.
He kind of talked to that and the need for alliances.
This is somebody who you know, kind of is a
big proponent of NATO, and I think was kind of
shocked that Donald Trump either didn't understand NATO or was
(07:51):
opposed to it.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I mean, still, it's still crazy to think about. The
news moves so fast.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
But John Bolton, Trump Administration National Security advisor, I believe correct.
When we ask him if he's a smart guy. He
points to Rex Tillerson, who said he was a fucking moron,
and Bolton says, he's a fucking moron. This person who
is running this is third time running to be president.
He's leading in all the polls like everybody around him.
(08:20):
When asked if he knows what's going on in the world,
says no, he's a fucking moron. He doesn't comprehend allyships,
he doesn't understand the benefits of NATO, he has no
understanding of history, he's just somebody who likes to be
complimented and worries just about himself. It's still it's still
incredible that that information is out there, and we haven't
moved on from that story once we learned about it.
(08:42):
We're still in the weeds of it all.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And yeah, there's too much of that unfortunately. So that's
that feels like old news. It's old.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
Oh yeah, Donald or Donald Trump's a fucking moron who
doesn't understand international alliances.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yeah, what else is new? Anyway, He's up nine points
in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
He might be threatened whatever. So at one point John Bolton,
in our discussions about Trump and putin, Bolton said he
thought Trump was too stupid to be a strong man.
What do you think he meant by that? Do you agree?
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I again, I'm I'm always a little bit of gas
that that's what you think of the leader of the
free world. To be clear, he's not going to vote
against in the next election. Too stupid to be a
strong man, So you're voting for Joe Biden. I'm gonna
vote for a third party candidate. Thanks, John Way, to
put your country ahead of a party, I suppose.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah, shocking shocking.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
I mean, I think trum Trump feels like he's trying
to be a strong man. I think I think what
I hear in a comment like that is I don't
see Trump. Trump doesn't seem to think too many steps ahead.
When I hear the stories of Latimer Putin, I'm hearing
stories of somebody who is has a lot of tactics,
is doing things that people don't understand behind closed doors,
(09:54):
finding creative ways in which to hold on to power.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I don't believe Donald.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Trump is finding creative ways to do but I think
he might stumble into a strong man in the stupidest
possible way.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Well, we went to Hungary. Obviously we looked at Victor Orban.
A lot of people at that time described Victor Orban
as like a more competent Trump. He's a lawyer, he
knows how to like pull pull the levers. So I
feel like it's similar. So moving on next, we talked
to reporter writer Julia Yaffi, who has obviously a lot
of knowledge about Russia. She's from border raised in Russia.
(10:26):
Talk to me about that interview. What were you expecting,
what could she illuminate.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Here's something that we get to do in specials that
we don't get to do and figures the pulse pieces
is we found this. The Washington Post posted this, these
documents from the Kremlin, essentially talking points about the ways
in which they wanted to influence American culture, talking points
they wanted to amplify.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
In the American media.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
And what's remarkable is the things that Russia is pushing
are the things that we're hearing out at Trump rallies.
And so we thought it was an opportunity to do
something we hadn't done before, which is like, let's walk
through this. We can show how Russian propaganda has made
its way into the fields of Pennsylvania and Green Bay.
So let's bring in Julia Yaffi, who is wonderful and
(11:10):
has talked about as a really complete understanding of America's
relationship with Russia, I what it's to actually like in
Moscow today, And she was able to kind of walk
us through the information that the Kremlin is propagating in
the US.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
The best political influence campaigns are the ones where you
don't invent anything. You just take the facts on the
ground and you amplify them, right, And so what you
see these fake accounts amplifying are arguments that I'm sure
you've heard on the trail and at these rallies, which
is that Democrats are globalists who care more about Ukraine
(11:48):
than about the southern border. It's Russia's good and Ukraine
has corrupt.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
It is corruption.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
They're taking a advantage of a situation where what they created.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
It's by this.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
They're pumping money over there and we know what's coming
back to politicians' pockets here.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Now it goes into the means of spreading this information.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
How they're gonna do it, Well, you're going to use.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Social media, but it says the only place where they
can spread this information without any censorship is I'm gonna
let you guess.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Where can they get the vitamins? Where are you selling
T shirts? I'm red pill can Oh, so you've read
pill caid.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Social The most useful of the idiots can be found on.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Truth social or owning it.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
And I will say that was something that like we
did our interview with Julia and we talked about many
many things, and even before we just before we wrapped,
she kind of wanted to say, like, hey, can I
say something?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And that's always a good time when whenever you're doing
an interview and they're like one more thing. For the
most part, you're like, oh, this is what they're passionate about.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yes, it does.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
It doesn't mean the interview or is missing something and
left something on the table. It's definitely not not it. No, No,
definitely not a sign.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
You didn't just take the boxes for your jokes and
try to move.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
That's not exactly no, not at all, not at all.
It's a sign of a good interview. I leave space
for somebody to add on to it.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I understand what's important about this story, though, Please tell
me what I miss?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Oh what is it?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
No, she kind of she took a moment to clarify,
especially like, hey, I don't think people actually when we
talk about Russia, they don't actually understand what it's like
in Russia right now. And it's in the special She articulates,
like living underneath an autocratic regime is it's frightening, and
it takes away people's rights. And she had some stories
about small acts of dissidence being attacked with brutal force
(13:37):
and it was really harrowing. And the same thing happened
when we talked to the Estonian Prime Minister, where again
not a result of bad interviewing technique. Yeah, but when
we were being prepared, Yeah, when we were basically about
ready to end the interview, the Ausonian Prime Minister had
a similar message, which again just clarifies when people get
(13:58):
to sit down and talk about this, the thing that
they want to articulate to the American public is the
Moscow that you see, the Vladimir Putin, the tough guy
that is romanticized on the right. People who live under
the underneath that regime, it's it's it's terrifying. Their rights
are stripped from them, and it is not this this beautiful,
idyllic Christian white landscape that the Maga folks want it
(14:21):
to be.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
And and over.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
And over again, we people were asking us to make
sure that that that message was heard.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, I mean Julia talked about specifics, even things like
students turning their teachers in for kind of being anti
war like scary stuff like that, so frightening. Yeah, And
Julia's connections to people in Russia currently in Russia was
interesting because she said she'll be on like text chains
and people like they'll be talking about these horrible abuses
(14:50):
by Putin and jokingly referred to well, at least our
subway stations are beautiful, Like obviously they don't feel that way.
They're like, having a pretty subway station is not worth
sacrificing all these rights.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
And we even we laugh about the propaganda. The subway
station was a big story about a month or so
ago when Tucker Carlson went over there and showed the
beautiful subway stations. He showed the beautiful cheap bread quote
unquote when we go to the Magaraj when we asked
the people had seen that a lot of people had
seen the Tucker Carlson interview and they were just parroting
(15:21):
everything they heard. Their Moscow is a beautiful place. This propaganda,
it works, especially when it's amplified by a pretty powerful,
useful idiot.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
All right, hold that thought. We're going to take a
quick break. We'll be right back with Jordan Klepper. Welcome back.
So Jordan, let's talk about Estonia. What was it like
doing this segment there, Why did we go there? What
(15:50):
brought us there?
Speaker 5 (15:51):
I think, sort of again organically piecing this special together,
we're hearing things in the field. We're starting to articulate
with Julia Yaffi what hearing in the field and where
that comes from. But frankly, what we started to understand
was there's a misunderstanding on the ground as to what
life next to Russia actually looks like. And here comes Estonia,
(16:15):
a place that John Bolton said, if you're going to go,
go now, and that's because.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
They're pretty dark.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
It's a pretty dark thing to say, but that fear
is palpable. Estonia is on the border with Russia. There
is talk right now that if Putin goes unchecked, that
he will continue to be the aggressor, and Estonia very
well could be next. And so this was an opportunity
for us to go talk to the studying Prime Minister,
learn a little bit about the importance of NATO, and
(16:41):
again try to close the gap from our perceptions and
our reality, because when you're halfway across the globe in Pennsylvania,
your assumptions as to what Russia is like is very
different than when you're a handful of kilometers from a
Russian border. You have a better understanding of actually what's
happening on the group.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
You're back in America right now, though Jordan, you don't
I don't have to use it. I know, I know
you're still in that frame of mind. I just I'm
wearing a Tolling T shirt. But we use Miles here,
we do right rightfully logically use Miles.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I still can never wrap my head around.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
It makes so much sense. It's not even worth spending
any more time on how much sense Miles makes. All right,
I want to talk about meeting the Prime Minister. In
your interview with her, your impressions. She has been outspoken
critic of Putin has been front and center and the
need to kind of, you know, strengthen NATO. As we
said in the special, She's on of Vladimir Putin's most
(17:33):
wanted list and kind of proud of that, which is
kind of interesting.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
For a fascinating reason too. Right, she was taking down
essentially Russian I believe it was a Russian tank.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But now functioning as a monument to that occupation.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Exactly, yes, which I think is an interesting comparison to
what is happening in the US as well. A Russian
tank was out there, and as the Ukrainian War amplified,
she was like, why do we have these monuments to
Russian aggression here? Let's take this thing down. Vladimir Putin
doesn't like it. Now she's on the most watted list.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
How dare you take my tank away? Let my stand,
Let this thing stand. There were some other reasons that
this was an interesting story in the right place to go,
and we didn't have time to touch on all of
them in the special. But one thing about Estonia is
that it, like Ukraine, has a Russian speaking population near
the border of Russia, and they fear that, Like Ukraine,
(18:23):
Putin will use that as an excuse to send in
his military and use it as cover to say, I'm
protecting these Russian speaking citizens. They feel threatened, they're you know,
they need my protection, so I'm sending troops in, and
that could very easily be the same logic. One thing
we learned just before we went there, which is almost
(18:44):
maybe even hours before we got on a plane to
go to Estonia, was that apparently Russian security forces had
been jamming the GPS systems of planes coming to land
in Estonia from Finland, so much so that the planes
had to turn around. And these about military aircraft, these
are just like planes of people, tourists, citizens going back
(19:05):
into Estonia that couldn't land in Estonia because the Russian
military was screwing with their GPS systems, which is really frightening.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Yeah, especially when you send me that article hours before
we got on a plane.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And we're going through Yeah, we're going through Finland.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
You're like, oh, this is uh, there's a there's a
chance that Russia is jamming airplane signals landing into Estonia.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Cool, anyway, I'll see at the airport right.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
And I truly was like, it won't be a big deal.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And I was like, I should look at ferries from
Finland to Estonia in case we don't get out of Finland.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
And at that point, I'm like, is Finland by Estonia?
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I was aware.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I was like, oh, I totally know the geography, are fine, Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
You knew it for days?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, for days, Like I knew it really well. After
I was on that big GPS map for about forty
minutes on the plane, I knew.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I knew it.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
You always need your research. That's what's so impressive.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
You definitely get on that plane and you zoom in,
you use those two figures of zoom and it'd be like, oh,
that's where all the country, that's where Helsinki is now
I know.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Poland over there. Cool, you could go there. Another thing,
I will say, even just walking around tallin the capital
of Estonia, you see signs of like their reaction to Russia.
Everywhere in this beautiful old town or old city section
is the Russian embassy And what was that like?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
It was remarkable.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
It's blocked off and it's a whole city block full
of just protest symbols, images of Navolny, even little shrines
to Navolny who passed away recently, Ukrainian flags, anti Putin sentiments, graffiti,
things of that nature. I remember walking through the town
square and at one of the restaurants in the town
(20:43):
square had both in Estonian and English, essentially asking when
Putin was going to kill himself like Hitler did.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
In a bunker right, Like, where are we going to
go to dinner?
Speaker 7 (20:55):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Okay, that's not a menu.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
What do they serve here? Oh? Oh a Putin suicide? Okay?
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Which the exchange rate for something like that? But it
was it's palpable there. It's all part of the conversation.
People were very blunt and open about it. Also side note,
Estonia is a beautiful country and Tollin was such a lovely,
lovely town.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I had no expectations of.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
What it was like in Estonia and this old town
area with these cobblestone streets to a medieval city. It
also has a bar that's the depeche Mode Bar, that
is just depeche Mode music that you go into a
basement and they played depeche Mode on videos and they
have paraphernalia.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And depeche Mode has enough of a catalog for it
to be a bar exclusively dedicated to that.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I yes, that's the good thing.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's the good thing.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
And also I don't believe there's any Estonian connection to
depeche Mode, but there is a depeche Mode bar in
Estonia that God's put it on your bucket list.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Get there.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Depeche Mode bar feels like something like like kind of
Soviet era, like we have a we have a depeche
Mode bar.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Whatever that Venn diagram of Soviet era and Portlandia's sketch is.
I think it's depeche Mode bar in Estonia.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yeah, But I will say one thing back to kind
of this anti Russian sentiment and this support for Ukraine
on the Prime Minister's residence in Estonia every night they
kind of project the Ukrainian flag, which I couldn't imagine
them doing something like that.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Here in America.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Can you imagine the White House had another flag projected
on it?
Speaker 5 (22:28):
I believe didn't we wave flags on the we passed
funding for Ukraine military, there was some waving of Ukrainian
flags and that was not wild widely accepted as.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
A lovely thing to do, if I recall.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
So, yes, it's very clear, like when we got to
meet the Prime Minister, which is really an honor for
us to meet ahead of state like that, she welcomed
us in and to be very clear, they are supportive
of Ukraine and their battle here. They see it as
not only important morally but also for their own safety.
They give more money percentage wise to NATO and too
(23:00):
military than the US does. And so she was very
forthcoming about that and that importance the history of Estonia
and the Estonian people and specifically the history under Soviet occupation,
and how again, this is a history that they are
grappling with and understand and have memories of, and this
is part of the reason they're pushing back against that
because they really feel colonialism don't stop.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And it could continue.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
And it could could continue soon if there isn't a
real unified force to stop.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
It, right and she, I mean I thought it was
especially interesting. She described her own experience as a child.
Speaker 7 (23:37):
Everybody's for peace, but we understand what peace under Soviet
or Russian occupation means. You had mass atrocities, mass deportations.
My own mother was deported to Siberia as a six
month old baby. There were mass killings. They were suppressing
(23:57):
our culture, trying to erase our life. This is what
peace under occupation means. That doesn't mean that the human
suffering was stop.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
How wild was that to hear?
Speaker 5 (24:10):
I mean, we had a taste of it in Hungary.
This is the naive somebody who didn't get to travel
much abroad as a kid. Like when you go to
eastern Europe, you realize just how recent history is in America,
even though in England they'll make fun of Americans because
our oldest things are only a couple hundred years old.
(24:31):
But it feels like our moments of turmoil seem distant
and in the past. And revolution and I remember in
Budapest seeing bullet holes from protests twenty years earlier, and
then stories fifty years earlier of this is where revolution
takes place. I think in Estonia. To hear these stories
of like, oh, you have grandparents who were in the Gulac,
you have you remember being under Russian occupation, running into
(24:56):
other people around who had stories too, It's like, oh,
this is.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Not a hypo.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
And to bring it back to sort of the US
perspective on it, like we talked to people in the
fields who are upset about things. It's all theory, so
much theory, so angry about things that we're crafting boogeymen
out of middle schooler trans athletes and people drinking bud light.
Like we craft these these folks, you know why they're
(25:20):
they're keeping us down, and these these bad, bad guys,
bad enemies. And then you go to a place like
Estonia and they're like, oh, do you know what it's
like to live underneath an Authrotivian regime?
Speaker 4 (25:29):
I do.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
I could tell you that story. It's not a theory,
it's a reality, and I can articulate it. That's why
we believe the things we believe.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Right, Like we're flipping out of the costs of eggs
being marginally higher. But she described her own daughter made
some comment about you know, if this store doesn't have
the thing I want, we'll go to the other store.
And the Prime Minister made her think about her own childhood.
She was like, there was no other store. That's not
a thing that existed. This is the store. They don't
have it, you can't get it, Like for your life.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Yeah, this is why we go there. I think we
are lucky that we get to make these specials. But
I think it was important to us. It's not just
us talking about like, Wow, look how misinformed we are.
I think American gullibility is a real problem in this country.
It's a threat that has global repercussions. But I think
a misunderstanding of the realities of what some people are pining.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
For here is also a real, real threat.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
And so wherever we can go there and talk to
people who have firsthand knowledge, I think that's a real
win for the things that we do here.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
All right, we're going to take a quick break. We
will be right back. Welcome back, So Clipper. One other
element that we weren't expecting to find when we started
this story was a lawyer in Nashville who has a
(26:51):
lot of connections to Russia. It was a very nice
s Gouy g Cline Preston, what a nice person. Real
history boff, Like you look around that office. Yeah, we're
talking about the Stalin bust and the Putin buss. But
like there's books everywhere about American and Russian history. But
very interesting conversation, very interesting afternoon with that man. Unexpected
phone call at the end of it. Do you want
(27:12):
to tell us about that interview?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
I mean, I echo everything you say there.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
He has a wild pass that we sort of talk
about a little bit on the show, so we didn't
know what we'd expect to talk to Kleine Again, he's
very much a fan of Russia.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
He spent time there in college. He was a.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Defender of Vladimir Putin. I believe we call him a fanboy.
He says, he just collects souvenirs. There's a hand, there's
a half of things that are a little on the nose.
Even though the red paints were sort of like, come on,
come on, Kline.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Well, I think we have this joke and I don't
even think it made the special, but it was like
you said it, like you have a poster that big
of Vladimir Putin and then you say, I'm not a fan.
It's like when we were kids. If you have a
poster of your favorite baseball player on the wall, it's
hard to be like, well, I don't really like that guy.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I also, he's an attorney in Nashville, and I can
only imagine somebody walking off the street. They'd be like, uh,
I just got a parking ticket. I'm trying to get
out of not the Gulag. Are you the right guy
to help me here? So you know, we talked to
Klein about this. I think he's a very opinionated guy
about Russia, about Russian history, and also he's a MAGA supporter.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I think was involved in some of the legal.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Arguments to change the results in Michigan. There's some complicated
history there. But I think what surprise this is in
our conversation is as we're talking, he gets a phone call.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Oh man, got a call.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Yeah, RT.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
That's Russian television that's calling.
Speaker 7 (28:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I mean I have to ask, are you a Russian asset?
Speaker 7 (28:51):
Well?
Speaker 3 (28:51):
If I am on a battlee wait?
Speaker 5 (28:53):
Was Klan about to feed the propaganda from the Kremlin
back to Russian state.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Television today about Ukraine? Oh? No? Was I the biscuit
in a propaganda circle jerk. In the middle of our interview,
where we had been joking and seriously asking him if
he was a Russian asset, we literally were like, you
have busts of Putin and little stickers of him magnets
(29:18):
on your fridge.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Some entity in Russia, he wouldn't tie it to the government.
There's an NGO that I think the government basically stocks
with its own people, pays for him to go over
there and be as an election watcher, as a pole watcher.
So some entity in Russia is also paying for him
to travel back to Russia.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
And what a pol watcher does. They go over there,
they take a look at the elections, and then they
tend to go on television and tell people that the
elections look great. And so as we are doing this
interview with him, TV calls and he takes a break
to go on Russian television.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I think we didn't We couldn't believe it was actually happening,
and I think for a moment we weren't sure that
it was really that's really what was happening. It kind
of felt like a At one point I thought the
call was like, oh, someone he just wanted to get
us out of his office.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
For some Yeah, because we didn't we like, all right,
we'll stop down and let you go and do that.
We left.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It was like the equivalent of like, you know, if
you're on a bad date, your friend calling you to
be like, oh sorry, I got to take this call,
except it's Russian State television, Like you want to get
out of that comedy shows interview, We got your back.
Just send me the text and I'll call you.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
I was going to say, you know what they're They
might be a hell of a propaganda machine, but they
are really they're also a really effective wing state.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Is going horribly. I'll get you out of it.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Put it's a nice guy. Maybe he really is. He's
looking out for his people.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
He pushes some journalists out windows, and some journalists he
just lightly nudges out of interview.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Real just ends interviews.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I'd like to think they're just monitoring all interviews that
are about Russia and they're like, this has gone too far.
Hit the button, it's over. Yeah, that was It was interesting.
But he was a great sport again, very interesting guy,
like dedicated family man. But you're right, if you were
just someone wandering in off the street of Nowshville to
hire a lawyer to be a parking ticket. I think
(31:04):
you'd be a little confused by the space. So a
lot of people talk about gridlock in America and the
Democrats appearing weak on a lot of issues, particularly democratic leadership.
Do you think that feeds into perhaps this desire or
this openness to authoritarianism from part of our country.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
You know what, I think democracy is slow, is not
meant to be a speedy process. And I think you know,
on both sides of the eye of people are frustrated
with the government right now. They're frustrated with this the
partisan bickering. I feel like it doesn't feel like America
is functioning swiftly or effectively, and so I can understand
why people are frustrated with it.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I think an appeal to a.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Overly simplistic view of autocracy is in its efficiency and
its ability to get things done. I think what that
neglects is the reality of how those things get done
and the ways in which the minority is often repressed
in order to serve an auto ideal that doesn't get
talked about. But I think the germ of something that
(32:04):
is appealing outside of the Christian whiteness of Russian's autocracy,
but the germ of some of that is order, order
an efficiency.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
I think as we take a step back and we
look at what Russian misinformation the goal of it. They
are top line looking just to sow distrust and chaos
that helps them globally. There are other goals specifically like
funding for Ukraine and also an unstable NATO that are
big goals that we talk about in the special as well.
(32:39):
But the way in which Russia affects people like it's
not just like, oh, they're paying for a spy over there.
It's not necessarily spycraft. It's just affecting the conversation. And
one of the things that some people have told us
about it is like, it's not about creating new info.
It's eighty percent telling people the things they want to hear,
in twenty percent telling the things you want them to hear.
And this info it's giving them enough string that they
(33:02):
can run and go with. And I think that's what
we started to see in a bunch of different ways
of people like just being the fan the flames being
fanned by Russia propaganda. In this one way, or then
seeing a story about Zelensky yachts and this kind of
way makes its way into the house.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Or it's even just like yeah, perhaps paying for a.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Trip to Russia to show you how great that place is,
and if you can speak highly about it on television,
that only adds to the public discourse and the overall distrust.
They can have actual, real ramifications on the House floor.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, okay, next special, where are we going?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
My lord, I I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Just something. We keep going to places we know less
and less about.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
I was going to say we didn't know a ton
about Estonia much respect. We had a wonderful time we
met the Prime Minister's she is such an impressive person Mongolia.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Let's say I don't know anything about it, so this
feels right?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, okay, let's put it in there. Yeah, was there?
What politics are happening in mind?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Go imhow tied to the election?
Speaker 5 (34:02):
I'm sure we're taking requests. So if you're out there
listening to this Ears edition and you know where we
should go, and by that, I mean you know very
little about the political situation. Uh, it's alwayst like six
degrees of Kevin bacon, but it's a political crisis that
we do yet.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Know perfect all right, thank you, Jordan, Thank you, Ian.
This has been Ian Berger and Jordan Klepper, thank you
for joining us on The Daily Show Ears edition. Be
sure to stream Jordan Klepper Fingers, the Pulse, Moscow Tools
on Paramount Plus, the Daily Show's YouTube channel and video
on demand streaming everybody.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Thank you, Ian, thank you. Explore more shows from the
Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show wherever
you get your podcasts. Watch The Daily Show week nights
at eleven.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Ten Central on Comedy Central, and.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 7 (34:51):
This has been a Comedy Central podcast now
You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hello, and welcome to The Daily Show Ears edition. This
is Ian Berger, supervising producer for The Daily Show. We're
here with Daily Show contributor fresh off a trip to Estonia,
right near the Russian border, Jordan Klepper.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome, Thank you, Jordan.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We're talking about your special. It's called Jordan Klepper Fingers
the Pulse Moscow Tools, which is available to stream on
Paramount Plus, the Daily Show's YouTube channel and video on demand. Jordan,
what was it like making this special?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Well, I'm gonna say it's our special.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
We've done four specials now, a lot of.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Specials, and they're all special.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
They are all specials. This one was, Honestly, I really
liked the process of making this special. I think we're
we're finding an interesting rhythm of like this one. This one,
we were discovering something on the road. We go out
in the road, we do the Fingers of the Pulse pieces.
We're discuss seen in discovering a shift in the narrative
around Russia, and suddenly people on the road are embracing
(01:07):
Vladimir Putin. They're talking about how beautiful Moscow looks, and
it feels like a one to eighty from Ronald Reagan's.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Dop Absolutely, and I think obviously we kind of encounter
some of this and you read about this stuff in
the news, and so you start down this path and
we're like, we're gonna go out into these rallies and
see if this is actually what they're talking about. And honestly,
the very first interview at the very first rally we
did in rainy, freezing Green Bay, that woman was like,
I love watching Vladimir Putin videos, Like right off the
(01:35):
bat home run.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Putin is a thatw leader runs this country. Here's a
respectful person's worst country. What do you like about Vladimir Putin?
The way is Lena's country is off for freedom. I
used to watch the videos fishing, horseback riding back.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
In the day.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
You do just for fun. You watch Putin horseback riding videos.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Yeah, who's a better leader, Vladimir Putin or Joe Biden Putin?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
She said, just to calm her down.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
If watching Vladimir Putin fish and ride shirtless on a
horse was like watching cute cat videos for her.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, we were surprised. It was amazing. Like once it's
kind of like you start off with that and you realize, well,
this is actually a story.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yep. Well even I remember we were starting to ask
people too.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
There was a stat that came out that said the
MAGA voter base thinks Joe Biden is more than fifty
percent thinks Vladimir Putin is a better president than Joe Biden,
which seemed like a big number. But as we started
asking people about this, I think, I think, gosh darn,
every single person at this event had no problem lauding
(02:38):
Vladimir Putin, especially when put up against Joe Biden. And
so this is where we started to say, like, oh,
this is this is a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, so for us and for you, And like, what
I think we're trying to discover was there is this
shift that happened in this part because traditionally the Republicans
are not a party that seems to be so cool
with Russia.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Yeah, that seemed to be kind of their their whole
calling card for a little while.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Right when I was a kid, that was the thing
that was Reagan's thing, and that was what they're very
proud of. But it seems to have changed. So to
explore that change, what are some other things you wanted
to do in this special and people you wanted to
talk to.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
I think a large question that bubbled up quickly as
we started to look into this was is this a
special about Russian misinformation? Yes, but it's very much a
special about American gullibility of like are we these useful idiots?
Which is a term Vladimir Lenin supposedly coined about American journalists,
that they were useful idiots, that they could be fed
(03:35):
Russian propaganda and utilize it and put it out there
for Russia's benefit. And so we wanted to look at
the American useful idiots, both those in power and those
in power who speak to the people out at the rallies.
But it was also bringing up a secondary question that
was worth exploring for us, which is beyond are we
naive and just embracing Russian misinformation that has.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Fed to us?
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Or is there a big part of the Republican Party
right now that truly pines for Vladimir Putin's Russia that
really wants an autocracy and the anti wokeness and the
anti LGBTQ community that Putin promises. I think that's a bigger,
scarier question that the Republican Party is reckoning with right now,
and so we wanted to jump in and talk to
(04:17):
people kind of surrounding those questions.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, and one of the first interviews we did was
actually with a well known Republican who's not someone you
would often sit down and talk to, but had kind
of the opposite view of how we should be approaching Russia.
That was John Bolton. You want to tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
We sat down with the messager John Bolton, and I
think we talked, especially offline, about this of like, this
story is so wild and bonkers and important existentially that
we find ourselves at a special like this talking to
John Bolton and talking to an Estonian prime minister about
the same thing. And John Bolton a part of three
(04:55):
Republican administrations. He was right there with Donald Trump, and
as we've talked about, he's a guy who saw this
up close, so much so that now he rails against it.
He speaks out against the dangers of Donald Trump and
his Putin fandom. And so we thought it was in
if we're going to talk to a Republican about the
change in the GOP, we might as well talk to
(05:16):
the most Republican Republican we could find, and that was
John Bolden, who's been in the room and has some
opinions about that.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
It's just antithetical not just to the philosophical beliefs of
Ronald Reagan, but to the positive attitude about America and
its prospects.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
So Reagan wakes up and he's shocked, right, And he's
also like, what is this internet thing? Maybe we should
send Stephen Saghal over there to kick Putin's ass. Wait a minute,
Steven sagh already lives there. This is all too confusing.
Let's just go back to ignoring aids.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
I think he'd be stunned that the Republican Party had
anything to do with Donald Trump.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
What is Trump's infatuation with Putin?
Speaker 6 (05:52):
Well? I think he has a fascination with authoritarian leaders generally.
I think Trump would like to be a big guy,
but I don't think he's enough to be a dictator.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So is Trump what's the term an idiot? Well?
Speaker 6 (06:06):
I think Rex Tillerson had the iconic two word description
of Trump, the first word I won't repeat even on
your show, the second of which was moron.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Okay, I'll throw it in there.
Speaker 5 (06:17):
That's that's pretty much on point, Yes, Maura, Right, can
a moron still be a useful idiot?
Speaker 6 (06:24):
I think the answer to that yes, And I think
Vladimir Putin understands it.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And it was a good interview and it was friendly,
which I think a lot of people might think was
weird for us, and it's unexpected, Like this is not
a story where we're going out to freed John Bolden
for being kind of a warhawk. This is a story
about's happening in the Republican Party now that he witnessed
first hand, which I think is kind of like what
we wanted out of him.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
And yeah, god, I mean, we did have some conversations
in the room about the Iraq War and if some
of his his pushing for American overseas interventionism, if that
causes and has some effects with people today being skittish
about funding our military.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
We talked a little bit about that.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
But I think when we're putting this piece together, when
we were talking about what the overall arc was, it
was about looking forward as to like, who, what do
we need to know about Donald Trump and his feelings
towards Ladimir Putin and more so also this party that
he heads right now. Why has it moved in this direction?
And Bolton was was remarkably enlightening about all of that.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
And obviously Bolton can speak to kind of global threats
that Russia poses that maybe well, certainly Donald Trump wasn't comprehending.
He kind of talked to that and the need for alliances.
This is somebody who you know, kind of is a
big proponent of NATO, and I think was kind of
shocked that Donald Trump either didn't understand NATO or was
(07:51):
opposed to it.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I mean, still, it's still crazy to think about. The
news moves so fast.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
But John Bolton, Trump Administration National Security advisor, I believe correct.
When we ask him if he's a smart guy. He
points to Rex Tillerson, who said he was a fucking moron,
and Bolton says, he's a fucking moron. This person who
is running this is third time running to be president.
He's leading in all the polls like everybody around him.
(08:20):
When asked if he knows what's going on in the world,
says no, he's a fucking moron. He doesn't comprehend allyships,
he doesn't understand the benefits of NATO, he has no
understanding of history, he's just somebody who likes to be
complimented and worries just about himself. It's still it's still
incredible that that information is out there, and we haven't
moved on from that story once we learned about it.
(08:42):
We're still in the weeds of it all.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And yeah, there's too much of that unfortunately. So that's
that feels like old news. It's old.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
Oh yeah, Donald or Donald Trump's a fucking moron who
doesn't understand international alliances.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yeah, what else is new? Anyway, He's up nine points
in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
He might be threatened whatever. So at one point John Bolton,
in our discussions about Trump and putin, Bolton said he
thought Trump was too stupid to be a strong man.
What do you think he meant by that? Do you agree?
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I again, I'm I'm always a little bit of gas
that that's what you think of the leader of the
free world. To be clear, he's not going to vote
against in the next election. Too stupid to be a
strong man, So you're voting for Joe Biden. I'm gonna
vote for a third party candidate. Thanks, John Way, to
put your country ahead of a party, I suppose.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah, shocking shocking.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
I mean, I think trum Trump feels like he's trying
to be a strong man. I think I think what
I hear in a comment like that is I don't
see Trump. Trump doesn't seem to think too many steps ahead.
When I hear the stories of Latimer Putin, I'm hearing
stories of somebody who is has a lot of tactics,
is doing things that people don't understand behind closed doors,
(09:54):
finding creative ways in which to hold on to power.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I don't believe Donald.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Trump is finding creative ways to do but I think
he might stumble into a strong man in the stupidest
possible way.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Well, we went to Hungary. Obviously we looked at Victor Orban.
A lot of people at that time described Victor Orban
as like a more competent Trump. He's a lawyer, he
knows how to like pull pull the levers. So I
feel like it's similar. So moving on next, we talked
to reporter writer Julia Yaffi, who has obviously a lot
of knowledge about Russia. She's from border raised in Russia.
(10:26):
Talk to me about that interview. What were you expecting,
what could she illuminate.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Here's something that we get to do in specials that
we don't get to do and figures the pulse pieces
is we found this. The Washington Post posted this, these
documents from the Kremlin, essentially talking points about the ways
in which they wanted to influence American culture, talking points
they wanted to amplify.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
In the American media.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
And what's remarkable is the things that Russia is pushing
are the things that we're hearing out at Trump rallies.
And so we thought it was an opportunity to do
something we hadn't done before, which is like, let's walk
through this. We can show how Russian propaganda has made
its way into the fields of Pennsylvania and Green Bay.
So let's bring in Julia Yaffi, who is wonderful and
(11:10):
has talked about as a really complete understanding of America's
relationship with Russia, I what it's to actually like in
Moscow today, And she was able to kind of walk
us through the information that the Kremlin is propagating in
the US.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
The best political influence campaigns are the ones where you
don't invent anything. You just take the facts on the
ground and you amplify them, right, And so what you
see these fake accounts amplifying are arguments that I'm sure
you've heard on the trail and at these rallies, which
is that Democrats are globalists who care more about Ukraine
(11:48):
than about the southern border. It's Russia's good and Ukraine
has corrupt.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
It is corruption.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
They're taking a advantage of a situation where what they created.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
It's by this.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
They're pumping money over there and we know what's coming
back to politicians' pockets here.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Now it goes into the means of spreading this information.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
How they're gonna do it, Well, you're going to use.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Social media, but it says the only place where they
can spread this information without any censorship is I'm gonna
let you guess.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Where can they get the vitamins? Where are you selling
T shirts? I'm red pill can Oh, so you've read
pill caid.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Social The most useful of the idiots can be found on.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Truth social or owning it.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
And I will say that was something that like we
did our interview with Julia and we talked about many
many things, and even before we just before we wrapped,
she kind of wanted to say, like, hey, can I
say something?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And that's always a good time when whenever you're doing
an interview and they're like one more thing. For the
most part, you're like, oh, this is what they're passionate about.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yes, it does.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
It doesn't mean the interview or is missing something and
left something on the table. It's definitely not not it. No, No,
definitely not a sign.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
You didn't just take the boxes for your jokes and
try to move.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
That's not exactly no, not at all, not at all.
It's a sign of a good interview. I leave space
for somebody to add on to it.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I understand what's important about this story, though, Please tell
me what I miss?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Oh what is it?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
No, she kind of she took a moment to clarify,
especially like, hey, I don't think people actually when we
talk about Russia, they don't actually understand what it's like
in Russia right now. And it's in the special She articulates,
like living underneath an autocratic regime is it's frightening, and
it takes away people's rights. And she had some stories
about small acts of dissidence being attacked with brutal force
(13:37):
and it was really harrowing. And the same thing happened
when we talked to the Estonian Prime Minister, where again
not a result of bad interviewing technique. Yeah, but when
we were being prepared, Yeah, when we were basically about
ready to end the interview, the Ausonian Prime Minister had
a similar message, which again just clarifies when people get
(13:58):
to sit down and talk about this, the thing that
they want to articulate to the American public is the
Moscow that you see, the Vladimir Putin, the tough guy
that is romanticized on the right. People who live under
the underneath that regime, it's it's it's terrifying. Their rights
are stripped from them, and it is not this this beautiful,
idyllic Christian white landscape that the Maga folks want it
(14:21):
to be.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
And and over.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
And over again, we people were asking us to make
sure that that that message was heard.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, I mean Julia talked about specifics, even things like
students turning their teachers in for kind of being anti
war like scary stuff like that, so frightening. Yeah, And
Julia's connections to people in Russia currently in Russia was
interesting because she said she'll be on like text chains
and people like they'll be talking about these horrible abuses
(14:50):
by Putin and jokingly referred to well, at least our
subway stations are beautiful, Like obviously they don't feel that way.
They're like, having a pretty subway station is not worth
sacrificing all these rights.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
And we even we laugh about the propaganda. The subway
station was a big story about a month or so
ago when Tucker Carlson went over there and showed the
beautiful subway stations. He showed the beautiful cheap bread quote
unquote when we go to the Magaraj when we asked
the people had seen that a lot of people had
seen the Tucker Carlson interview and they were just parroting
(15:21):
everything they heard. Their Moscow is a beautiful place. This propaganda,
it works, especially when it's amplified by a pretty powerful,
useful idiot.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
All right, hold that thought. We're going to take a
quick break. We'll be right back with Jordan Klepper. Welcome back.
So Jordan, let's talk about Estonia. What was it like
doing this segment there, Why did we go there? What
(15:50):
brought us there?
Speaker 5 (15:51):
I think, sort of again organically piecing this special together,
we're hearing things in the field. We're starting to articulate
with Julia Yaffi what hearing in the field and where
that comes from. But frankly, what we started to understand
was there's a misunderstanding on the ground as to what
life next to Russia actually looks like. And here comes Estonia,
(16:15):
a place that John Bolton said, if you're going to go,
go now, and that's because.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
They're pretty dark.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
It's a pretty dark thing to say, but that fear
is palpable. Estonia is on the border with Russia. There
is talk right now that if Putin goes unchecked, that
he will continue to be the aggressor, and Estonia very
well could be next. And so this was an opportunity
for us to go talk to the studying Prime Minister,
learn a little bit about the importance of NATO, and
(16:41):
again try to close the gap from our perceptions and
our reality, because when you're halfway across the globe in Pennsylvania,
your assumptions as to what Russia is like is very
different than when you're a handful of kilometers from a
Russian border. You have a better understanding of actually what's
happening on the group.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
You're back in America right now, though Jordan, you don't
I don't have to use it. I know, I know
you're still in that frame of mind. I just I'm
wearing a Tolling T shirt. But we use Miles here,
we do right rightfully logically use Miles.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I still can never wrap my head around.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
It makes so much sense. It's not even worth spending
any more time on how much sense Miles makes. All right,
I want to talk about meeting the Prime Minister. In
your interview with her, your impressions. She has been outspoken
critic of Putin has been front and center and the
need to kind of, you know, strengthen NATO. As we
said in the special, She's on of Vladimir Putin's most
(17:33):
wanted list and kind of proud of that, which is
kind of interesting.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
For a fascinating reason too. Right, she was taking down
essentially Russian I believe it was a Russian tank.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But now functioning as a monument to that occupation.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Exactly, yes, which I think is an interesting comparison to
what is happening in the US as well. A Russian
tank was out there, and as the Ukrainian War amplified,
she was like, why do we have these monuments to
Russian aggression here? Let's take this thing down. Vladimir Putin
doesn't like it. Now she's on the most watted list.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
How dare you take my tank away? Let my stand,
Let this thing stand. There were some other reasons that
this was an interesting story in the right place to go,
and we didn't have time to touch on all of
them in the special. But one thing about Estonia is
that it, like Ukraine, has a Russian speaking population near
the border of Russia, and they fear that, Like Ukraine,
(18:23):
Putin will use that as an excuse to send in
his military and use it as cover to say, I'm
protecting these Russian speaking citizens. They feel threatened, they're you know,
they need my protection, so I'm sending troops in, and
that could very easily be the same logic. One thing
we learned just before we went there, which is almost
(18:44):
maybe even hours before we got on a plane to
go to Estonia, was that apparently Russian security forces had
been jamming the GPS systems of planes coming to land
in Estonia from Finland, so much so that the planes
had to turn around. And these about military aircraft, these
are just like planes of people, tourists, citizens going back
(19:05):
into Estonia that couldn't land in Estonia because the Russian
military was screwing with their GPS systems, which is really frightening.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Yeah, especially when you send me that article hours before
we got on a plane.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And we're going through Yeah, we're going through Finland.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
You're like, oh, this is uh, there's a there's a
chance that Russia is jamming airplane signals landing into Estonia.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Cool, anyway, I'll see at the airport right.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
And I truly was like, it won't be a big deal.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And I was like, I should look at ferries from
Finland to Estonia in case we don't get out of Finland.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
And at that point, I'm like, is Finland by Estonia?
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I was aware.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I was like, oh, I totally know the geography, are fine, Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
You knew it for days?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, for days, Like I knew it really well. After
I was on that big GPS map for about forty
minutes on the plane, I knew.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I knew it.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
You always need your research. That's what's so impressive.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
You definitely get on that plane and you zoom in,
you use those two figures of zoom and it'd be like, oh,
that's where all the country, that's where Helsinki is now
I know.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Poland over there. Cool, you could go there. Another thing,
I will say, even just walking around tallin the capital
of Estonia, you see signs of like their reaction to Russia.
Everywhere in this beautiful old town or old city section
is the Russian embassy And what was that like?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
It was remarkable.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
It's blocked off and it's a whole city block full
of just protest symbols, images of Navolny, even little shrines
to Navolny who passed away recently, Ukrainian flags, anti Putin sentiments, graffiti,
things of that nature. I remember walking through the town
square and at one of the restaurants in the town
(20:43):
square had both in Estonian and English, essentially asking when
Putin was going to kill himself like Hitler did.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
In a bunker right, Like, where are we going to
go to dinner?
Speaker 7 (20:55):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Okay, that's not a menu.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
What do they serve here? Oh? Oh a Putin suicide? Okay?
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Which the exchange rate for something like that? But it
was it's palpable there. It's all part of the conversation.
People were very blunt and open about it. Also side note,
Estonia is a beautiful country and Tollin was such a lovely,
lovely town.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I had no expectations of.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
What it was like in Estonia and this old town
area with these cobblestone streets to a medieval city. It
also has a bar that's the depeche Mode Bar, that
is just depeche Mode music that you go into a
basement and they played depeche Mode on videos and they
have paraphernalia.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And depeche Mode has enough of a catalog for it
to be a bar exclusively dedicated to that.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I yes, that's the good thing.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's the good thing.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
And also I don't believe there's any Estonian connection to
depeche Mode, but there is a depeche Mode bar in
Estonia that God's put it on your bucket list.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Get there.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Depeche Mode bar feels like something like like kind of
Soviet era, like we have a we have a depeche
Mode bar.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Whatever that Venn diagram of Soviet era and Portlandia's sketch is.
I think it's depeche Mode bar in Estonia.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yeah, But I will say one thing back to kind
of this anti Russian sentiment and this support for Ukraine
on the Prime Minister's residence in Estonia every night they
kind of project the Ukrainian flag, which I couldn't imagine
them doing something like that.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Here in America.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Can you imagine the White House had another flag projected
on it?
Speaker 5 (22:28):
I believe didn't we wave flags on the we passed
funding for Ukraine military, there was some waving of Ukrainian
flags and that was not wild widely accepted as.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
A lovely thing to do, if I recall.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
So, yes, it's very clear, like when we got to
meet the Prime Minister, which is really an honor for
us to meet ahead of state like that, she welcomed
us in and to be very clear, they are supportive
of Ukraine and their battle here. They see it as
not only important morally but also for their own safety.
They give more money percentage wise to NATO and too
(23:00):
military than the US does. And so she was very
forthcoming about that and that importance the history of Estonia
and the Estonian people and specifically the history under Soviet occupation,
and how again, this is a history that they are
grappling with and understand and have memories of, and this
is part of the reason they're pushing back against that
because they really feel colonialism don't stop.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And it could continue.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
And it could could continue soon if there isn't a
real unified force to stop.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
It, right and she, I mean I thought it was
especially interesting. She described her own experience as a child.
Speaker 7 (23:37):
Everybody's for peace, but we understand what peace under Soviet
or Russian occupation means. You had mass atrocities, mass deportations.
My own mother was deported to Siberia as a six
month old baby. There were mass killings. They were suppressing
(23:57):
our culture, trying to erase our life. This is what
peace under occupation means. That doesn't mean that the human
suffering was stop.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
How wild was that to hear?
Speaker 5 (24:10):
I mean, we had a taste of it in Hungary.
This is the naive somebody who didn't get to travel
much abroad as a kid. Like when you go to
eastern Europe, you realize just how recent history is in America,
even though in England they'll make fun of Americans because
our oldest things are only a couple hundred years old.
(24:31):
But it feels like our moments of turmoil seem distant
and in the past. And revolution and I remember in
Budapest seeing bullet holes from protests twenty years earlier, and
then stories fifty years earlier of this is where revolution
takes place. I think in Estonia. To hear these stories
of like, oh, you have grandparents who were in the Gulac,
you have you remember being under Russian occupation, running into
(24:56):
other people around who had stories too, It's like, oh,
this is.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Not a hypo.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
And to bring it back to sort of the US
perspective on it, like we talked to people in the
fields who are upset about things. It's all theory, so
much theory, so angry about things that we're crafting boogeymen
out of middle schooler trans athletes and people drinking bud light.
Like we craft these these folks, you know why they're
(25:20):
they're keeping us down, and these these bad, bad guys,
bad enemies. And then you go to a place like
Estonia and they're like, oh, do you know what it's
like to live underneath an Authrotivian regime?
Speaker 4 (25:29):
I do.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
I could tell you that story. It's not a theory,
it's a reality, and I can articulate it. That's why
we believe the things we believe.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Right, Like we're flipping out of the costs of eggs
being marginally higher. But she described her own daughter made
some comment about you know, if this store doesn't have
the thing I want, we'll go to the other store.
And the Prime Minister made her think about her own childhood.
She was like, there was no other store. That's not
a thing that existed. This is the store. They don't
have it, you can't get it, Like for your life.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Yeah, this is why we go there. I think we
are lucky that we get to make these specials. But
I think it was important to us. It's not just
us talking about like, Wow, look how misinformed we are.
I think American gullibility is a real problem in this country.
It's a threat that has global repercussions. But I think
a misunderstanding of the realities of what some people are pining.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
For here is also a real, real threat.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
And so wherever we can go there and talk to
people who have firsthand knowledge, I think that's a real
win for the things that we do here.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
All right, we're going to take a quick break. We
will be right back. Welcome back, So Clipper. One other
element that we weren't expecting to find when we started
this story was a lawyer in Nashville who has a
(26:51):
lot of connections to Russia. It was a very nice
s Gouy g Cline Preston, what a nice person. Real
history boff, Like you look around that office. Yeah, we're
talking about the Stalin bust and the Putin buss. But
like there's books everywhere about American and Russian history. But
very interesting conversation, very interesting afternoon with that man. Unexpected
phone call at the end of it. Do you want
(27:12):
to tell us about that interview?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
I mean, I echo everything you say there.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
He has a wild pass that we sort of talk
about a little bit on the show, so we didn't
know what we'd expect to talk to Kleine Again, he's
very much a fan of Russia.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
He spent time there in college. He was a.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Defender of Vladimir Putin. I believe we call him a fanboy.
He says, he just collects souvenirs. There's a hand, there's
a half of things that are a little on the nose.
Even though the red paints were sort of like, come on,
come on, Kline.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Well, I think we have this joke and I don't
even think it made the special, but it was like
you said it, like you have a poster that big
of Vladimir Putin and then you say, I'm not a fan.
It's like when we were kids. If you have a
poster of your favorite baseball player on the wall, it's
hard to be like, well, I don't really like that guy.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I also, he's an attorney in Nashville, and I can
only imagine somebody walking off the street. They'd be like, uh,
I just got a parking ticket. I'm trying to get
out of not the Gulag. Are you the right guy
to help me here? So you know, we talked to
Klein about this. I think he's a very opinionated guy
about Russia, about Russian history, and also he's a MAGA supporter.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I think was involved in some of the legal.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Arguments to change the results in Michigan. There's some complicated
history there. But I think what surprise this is in
our conversation is as we're talking, he gets a phone call.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Oh man, got a call.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Yeah, RT.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
That's Russian television that's calling.
Speaker 7 (28:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I mean I have to ask, are you a Russian asset?
Speaker 7 (28:51):
Well?
Speaker 3 (28:51):
If I am on a battlee wait?
Speaker 5 (28:53):
Was Klan about to feed the propaganda from the Kremlin
back to Russian state.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Television today about Ukraine? Oh? No? Was I the biscuit
in a propaganda circle jerk. In the middle of our interview,
where we had been joking and seriously asking him if
he was a Russian asset, we literally were like, you
have busts of Putin and little stickers of him magnets
(29:18):
on your fridge.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Some entity in Russia, he wouldn't tie it to the government.
There's an NGO that I think the government basically stocks
with its own people, pays for him to go over
there and be as an election watcher, as a pole watcher.
So some entity in Russia is also paying for him
to travel back to Russia.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
And what a pol watcher does. They go over there,
they take a look at the elections, and then they
tend to go on television and tell people that the
elections look great. And so as we are doing this
interview with him, TV calls and he takes a break
to go on Russian television.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I think we didn't We couldn't believe it was actually happening,
and I think for a moment we weren't sure that
it was really that's really what was happening. It kind
of felt like a At one point I thought the
call was like, oh, someone he just wanted to get
us out of his office.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
For some Yeah, because we didn't we like, all right,
we'll stop down and let you go and do that.
We left.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It was like the equivalent of like, you know, if
you're on a bad date, your friend calling you to
be like, oh sorry, I got to take this call,
except it's Russian State television, Like you want to get
out of that comedy shows interview, We got your back.
Just send me the text and I'll call you.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
I was going to say, you know what they're They
might be a hell of a propaganda machine, but they
are really they're also a really effective wing state.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Is going horribly. I'll get you out of it.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Put it's a nice guy. Maybe he really is. He's
looking out for his people.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
He pushes some journalists out windows, and some journalists he
just lightly nudges out of interview.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Real just ends interviews.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I'd like to think they're just monitoring all interviews that
are about Russia and they're like, this has gone too far.
Hit the button, it's over. Yeah, that was It was interesting.
But he was a great sport again, very interesting guy,
like dedicated family man. But you're right, if you were
just someone wandering in off the street of Nowshville to
hire a lawyer to be a parking ticket. I think
(31:04):
you'd be a little confused by the space. So a
lot of people talk about gridlock in America and the
Democrats appearing weak on a lot of issues, particularly democratic leadership.
Do you think that feeds into perhaps this desire or
this openness to authoritarianism from part of our country.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
You know what, I think democracy is slow, is not
meant to be a speedy process. And I think you know,
on both sides of the eye of people are frustrated
with the government right now. They're frustrated with this the
partisan bickering. I feel like it doesn't feel like America
is functioning swiftly or effectively, and so I can understand
why people are frustrated with it.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I think an appeal to a.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Overly simplistic view of autocracy is in its efficiency and
its ability to get things done. I think what that
neglects is the reality of how those things get done
and the ways in which the minority is often repressed
in order to serve an auto ideal that doesn't get
talked about. But I think the germ of something that
(32:04):
is appealing outside of the Christian whiteness of Russian's autocracy,
but the germ of some of that is order, order
an efficiency.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
I think as we take a step back and we
look at what Russian misinformation the goal of it. They
are top line looking just to sow distrust and chaos
that helps them globally. There are other goals specifically like
funding for Ukraine and also an unstable NATO that are
big goals that we talk about in the special as well.
(32:39):
But the way in which Russia affects people like it's
not just like, oh, they're paying for a spy over there.
It's not necessarily spycraft. It's just affecting the conversation. And
one of the things that some people have told us
about it is like, it's not about creating new info.
It's eighty percent telling people the things they want to hear,
in twenty percent telling the things you want them to hear.
And this info it's giving them enough string that they
(33:02):
can run and go with. And I think that's what
we started to see in a bunch of different ways
of people like just being the fan the flames being
fanned by Russia propaganda. In this one way, or then
seeing a story about Zelensky yachts and this kind of
way makes its way into the house.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Or it's even just like yeah, perhaps paying for a.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Trip to Russia to show you how great that place is,
and if you can speak highly about it on television,
that only adds to the public discourse and the overall distrust.
They can have actual, real ramifications on the House floor.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, okay, next special, where are we going?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
My lord, I I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Just something. We keep going to places we know less
and less about.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
I was going to say we didn't know a ton
about Estonia much respect. We had a wonderful time we
met the Prime Minister's she is such an impressive person Mongolia.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Let's say I don't know anything about it, so this
feels right?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, okay, let's put it in there. Yeah, was there?
What politics are happening in mind?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Go imhow tied to the election?
Speaker 5 (34:02):
I'm sure we're taking requests. So if you're out there
listening to this Ears edition and you know where we
should go, and by that, I mean you know very
little about the political situation. Uh, it's alwayst like six
degrees of Kevin bacon, but it's a political crisis that
we do yet.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Know perfect all right, thank you, Jordan, Thank you, Ian.
This has been Ian Berger and Jordan Klepper, thank you
for joining us on The Daily Show Ears edition. Be
sure to stream Jordan Klepper Fingers, the Pulse, Moscow Tools
on Paramount Plus, the Daily Show's YouTube channel and video
on demand streaming everybody.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Thank you, Ian, thank you. Explore more shows from the
Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show wherever
you get your podcasts. Watch The Daily Show week nights
at eleven.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Ten Central on Comedy Central, and.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 7 (34:51):
This has been a Comedy Central podcast now
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