November 23, 2021 • 53 mins
Ronny Chieng talks to Roy Wood Jr. about his viral response to a 2016 Fox News segment filled with racist Asian stereotypes and the rise in anti-Asian violence since then.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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So you're know, like when you get a salad, right,
you get a salad and then you get the dressing
on the side so you can feel healthy when the
(01:51):
truth is yet, You're just gonna put the dressing on
a little bit, bit by bit, and then by the
end of your salad you've already used all the dressing
that was on the side. That's what this podcast is.
This is the dressing on the side of the Daily Show.
I'm Roy Wood Jr. This is beyond the scenes where
we go, beyond the topics and the discussions that we
(02:13):
have on the Daily Show. I sit down with correspondence, producers, writers,
anybody that had anything to do with the piece happening.
We talked to them on this show and you enjoy
it and it is as delicious as the Daily Show
because it's on the side and see what it's on
the side. It feels healthier. Baby. If you're right now,
you're getting a couple of extra calories. Just listening to me.
(02:34):
What the hell am I talking about? You don't care? Uh?
The piece we're going to go beyond on this week,
Um is the o'rilly factor getting racist in Chinatown. This
is when Ronny Chain responded to some racist as ship
that was on Fox News. Uh. If you didn't see
the original segment Jesse Waters from Fox News. This is
(02:55):
during the election and Trump was talking China this, China that,
and he went down to Chinatown to do what was
supposed to be quote unquote journalism and having a real
discussion with Asian people. But really what he was doing
was exploiting people who did not speak English and then
going around town partaking in all of the different stuff
(03:15):
that basically just highlighted a bunch of Asian stereotypes. He
got a foot massage, he played with some nunchucks, he
played kung fu fighting, and my man Runney Chain caught
window this ship and he clapped back in a major way.
(03:38):
Am I supposed to bow to say hello? Play out lay?
Heal I liked his watches? Are they hot? Penny Nate?
What are you gonna vote for? Wife? Clinton's wife has
a name? What is it? Old man? Forget it? Snap
out of it? You know karate? Yeah? I hit my hand.
(03:59):
Oh that's the spot. Is it the year of the
Dragon crab it? No, it's actually the year of go yourself?
(04:21):
How was that? How was that on the news? In fact,
how is that even on TV? Where did has come from?
I mean everyone's been wondering who would be the tig
of twenty six teams? Was racism? I don't even know?
Asians going to running? Okay, So we're going to discuss
the rise of anti Asian hate in this country, where
it came from, what we can do to stop it,
(04:42):
and a little later in the program, we're going to
be joined by Norman Chen, the CEO and co founder
of Leading Asian Americans Unite for Change. But first, it
is my pleasure to go beyond the scenes with my
office mate. He is my friend, he is You're a
day one man. You're my day one from my first
(05:04):
day at the Daily Show, you were right there. I
think I beat you to the five minutes, which makes
me the senior correspondent because I beat into the building
by five minutes on our first day. Uh, Ronnie, you
did this piece. This is Ronnie Chang by the Way
Daily Show Correspondent extraordin near Ronnie Chang. Yeah, thanks, thanks
for talking about this man. And you're my day one too.
(05:26):
You and I are good friends and we talk a
lot in our office. Like we we actually discussed that
one one moment doing a podcast together, just us rambling
and ship, just our rambles. But I think we both
decided that we talked about a lot of stuff that
should remaining off the record. Um yeah, I think you
You didn't even say we should talk about it. You
said you wanted to install cameras and just keep it
(05:49):
on record and then cut clips about what was I
don't want to do that. Yeah, I wanted to big
brother our office, just a live stream of ruin Ronnie,
just solving every problem. Which speaking of solving problems, Ronnie,
it's gonna be a lot of you eating subway sangwich,
that's what's gonna be. Hey, we will discuss subway tuna later. Okay,
(06:11):
they said it's tuna. They just don't know which kind
of tuna that's we're getting off stuff Ronnie in why
did you fail to solve Asian racism? Anti Asian sentiment?
Why did you fail? It was a bait and switch.
I thought we solved it. Um. I thought racism was
(06:32):
over after that video, and then you know, they did
a pump fake and then they went the other way
and it came back. They came back hot. They racism
came back and went hot to the rim. You know
what I mean. Racist broke the bad boy Anti Asian
racism it was down oh to like the Milwaukee Bucks,
and gave itself a lot of came back hot. They
(06:55):
came back so hard. There. We joke a lot on
the show, but this was a piece that you know,
it was what we call in in the Daily Show
office is a quick turn. This is where the news
breaks and rather than go through a formal booking like no,
Rannie was like, Yo, where's the camera, I'm going to Chinatown.
Just for the people who don't know who've missed a piece,
give me the back story on what lit this fire
(07:17):
so fast From the time from the time this piece
aired on Fox News, I think our response air maybe
thirty six hours later, if that, yeah, it was yeah, yeah,
So once things hit the z guys in American News.
Then it starts to enter the building a bit and
this this the underlying story, which is the Fox News
(07:39):
story was actually causing so much grief in America that
it hit the pop culture as that guys and then
that entered the building, which I mean, to be fair,
already entered the building the day before, but it started
building overnight to the point where the Daily Show had
to address it. We decided to go to Chinatown to
(08:00):
get the response of people from that neighborhood who will
interviewed the same neighborhood that was interviewed in the Fox
News segment. And um, we went down and I was
worried that because in Singapore and Malaysia, people get really
apathetic about politics and they're very hesitant to be on
(08:20):
screen and they're very hesitant to be on screen talking
about politics. So I didn't know if that would be
the same thing we would face in New York City
China Town. But what we found, the entire Daily Show
team found was that it was the exact opposite, because
as soon as we got to New York City Chinatown,
people literally as soon as we got out of the car,
(08:40):
and I was dressed in the suit, and they as
soon as they saw me, They're like, hey, are you
here to talk about that thing that happened yesterday? And
I was like yeah, and they're like, come over here.
And then they brought us to the place in Chinatown
and people lined up around the block to talk to us.
Lined up, so it was likely, Yeah, people don't normally
(09:04):
line up to talk to us. So I literally I
was just standing there as people came one after the
other to come and and bitch about what happened yesterday.
What are your thoughts on the Jesse Waters video on
Fox News? The chicken reporter who came down here and
thought he was big because he talked to people whouldn't speaking. Yeah,
(09:24):
that douchebag pieces, the one with no testicles, the one
who came down here who said, let me talk to
some old people and let me let me put them
on camera without asking them and sort of put them
on national television and made fun of them in the
worst possible way. That asshole. Yeah, I think we're talking
about the same guy, right, all right? What was the
question again? I can't even remember the whole idea behind
the piece was that And this came from travel was
(09:45):
the idea that just because people aren't speaking your language,
whatever your language is, doesn't mean they don't have sophisticated
thoughts on politics and the way the country should be run.
So that was the idea we are doing in Chinatown,
which was trying to get their opinions, and in many
cases we made we kind of asked them to speak
Chinese all Cantonese, just to make the point that you
(10:06):
can't have sophisticated thoughts uh in the languages other than
English and so um. Yeah. The response was, you know,
it required almost no effort on our the streets. The
students didn't the talking on that one. You're more zin
du than me. But the thing that I found most
interesting about this piece for you was the lack of
(10:28):
anger from you as a correspondent. That's the thing I'm
always suppressing, Like, dude, when I'm like, like when we
did the Republican National Convention, we did the piece when
was America great? And I'm having to look at people
looked me in my black ass eyes and tell me
America was great during slavery and I'm trying not to read.
So when you went down to Chinatown on a piece
(10:50):
as as an Asian. Was this personal? Was was this
a more personal piece for you? Because yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean it felt like a direct personal attack by
this same time, you know at the Daily Show, you know,
the drill man, it's like, what like in the emergency room,
it's like we see so much crap every day that
you in order to operate professionally, you you become guy
(11:12):
desensitized and you're just here to treat the patients. And
so we just keep seeing car crashes every single day.
Eventually you're like, oh yeah, like you have an objective
view of it. And also I was pretty pissed going
back to the studio. Uh, And I remember we brought
the footage back and this is again speaks to the
team at the Daily Show, is that we we went
out to shoot, went back edited wherever we shot, wrote
(11:37):
the Death Piece and on the same night, right and
we we recorded the same night, like and you know,
few pieces are usually separate to death pieces, but this
was like the perfect e merging of Chat with Trevor
and the Death Piece and UH and a Field Element
and Man on the Street all in one day. I mean,
that's the you know for me, And that was this
early on in my daily shows, maybe one year in,
(12:00):
and I was like, man, this is the Daily Show.
Its best, you know everything, everyone's operating and firing and
all cylinders in a very short time frame. Um, and
I'm sorry to answer your question about not being piste off.
I mean, part of it is the job, and part
of it is I always feel like because I'm a
first generation immigrant to America, so I'm in America because
(12:20):
by choice, like I want to be there, and um
so when I see ship go down, I see like
I also see in this particular instance. Yeah, you can say,
you know, blatant racism, but the silver lining to this
whole story was that everyone got angry by this Fox
New piece, not just Asian people, not just Chinatown New
(12:42):
York City people, the entire country was like, Yo, this
this sucks. And that's why you entered the ze guys, right,
because if if most people thought it was okay, it
would never have you know, blown up to the point
where you know, at that time, people were pretty upset.
You know, everyone, white people upset, every race was pretty
upset about this. So if you ask me why I'm
(13:03):
not more obsessed, because oh, it was a cause that
everyone already. You know, most people were upset by the
issue already, and we were just giving them a platform
to express it. You know, who was the target audience
for this? Was it? Or I guess who were you
aiming this piece towards in a way? Like? Was it
(13:25):
was it at the reporter that went out and did it?
I you know, his name is Jesse Waters. I personally
think we should bleep his name, just bleep his name.
Is it at the reporter who went out and said
this ignorant ship even though he kind of sort of
apologized after the fact. Is it the right wingy Fox
News type media outlets that pushed this narrative or was
(13:49):
it at the people that actually thought that what he
did was real journalism and informative? Yeah? I mean it
was I think honestly it uh man, Uh, it was
for whoever wanted to listen to it. But also I
think as Asian people in America, Uh, they they never
had a way to critique the media like that. I
(14:13):
think the history of Asian American storytelling in America, there's
there's been no one in the media to critique media
portrayals of them on a big enough platform. So honestly,
it was almost to put a flag in the sand
and be like, oh, you know this, this kind of
stuff isn't acceptable anymore, you know. And it was a
sentiment I felt there was already in America, and yeah,
(14:35):
I kind of symbolically put the flag in like this
is the moment. But uh, And I was lucky to
be happened to be in a position to do it
right because we wanted to show that criticizes news and media.
That's what I'll show essentially is right and so um,
I happened to be on the perfect platform to do it.
But like I said, I think most people in America
didn't think it was okay even at the time. No,
(14:58):
not in the least. The thing that's so interesting about
this country, though, is that every minority group is dealing
with their own racism. Two. So then when you find
out about the new racism, it's like, oh, okay, well,
I'll be right there in a second. I'm currently getting
(15:19):
beaten the head back up. I'll be right there as
soon as I finished dealing with my own traumas. And
it's it's very difficult, and I think it's very dope
that so many people were willing to speak out, which
brings me, as a matter of fact, now you already
know the role that Trump played and stirring the pot
from up until COVID. But at COVID, I feel like
(15:43):
that's when the pot went from medium to hot for well,
from hot too hotter for anti Asian American sentiment. You know,
there was a fifty percent spike and uh anti Asian
crime in then also you know everything that started with
COVID and it's starting in China, and then Trump driving
(16:05):
the narrative of oh, it's the you know what he
said about it. I'm not going to even repeat what
they call the coronavirus at the time or whatever, but
the China virus is that one. I can say. I'm
not gonna say the other one, but it really you
can say it. I'm not gonna say it. I'm not
gonna say the case so weird that we have to
(16:25):
tiptoe around quoting the president in case we say a slur,
we can't direct it's just you insert slur here. Just
whatever you think he said, he said it. Do you think,
like how much of that contributed to the uptick in violence?
(16:49):
And the bigger question, the bigger question, do you think that, Like,
do you think that like Fox News and Trump were
following their base what they just given to people what
they want when it turns in terms of stirring up racism,
or were they leading them to this and then creating racism? Yeah,
(17:10):
I mean I think it's one of the go to
moves in the playbook is to blame people who look
different to them, Right, that's one of the go to,
um fascist moves, I guess. Um. So I think that
was the easy you know, when when bad stuff happens anywhere,
(17:32):
I mean, let's just say in America, then people look
for someone to blame, right, And so I think putting
it on the whole race of people is a way
to direct their anger. I think it's also weird in
America that they like people. I think Asian people were
kind of under the radar a bit until this thing happened,
(17:52):
and then now it became It kind of gave people
an excuse to like go after m Asian people if
you're having trouble. But I will say in America, I
think what's interesting about being Asian America is that you're
kind of always you know, the idea of being a
perpetual foreigner in America, like Asian Americans aren't usually like
(18:17):
they're always seen as having to like answer for stuff
that happened in Asia or you know, like everyone's always
putting stuff that happened in Asia on Asian Americans when
they're very separate cultures. Like I love, Asian Americans haven't
left America before they were like born and raised and
they never left, you know, and so it's almost like
(18:39):
quite frankly, like African Americans being asked about stuff that
happens in Africa, or like Anglo Americans being asked about
stuff in the UK, you know, like what happened in
what's going on with Bregsit you know, like most people
don't know what's happen. A love these Asian Americans are
just Asian American culture. But I guess my point is
that that's that's uh, that's the way I kind of
(19:01):
describe the perpetual for or nothing is that you're you're
always being asked about stuff over there, and so you've
got nothing to Most most as Americans have nothing to
do with the stuff over there. You know. The thing
for me, when the uptick happened, when the jump and
anti Asian sentiment and the crime started happening, especially in
(19:22):
the New York area. Um, you know, it was people
of all races perpetuating these crimes. But there was also
a lot of videos where sometimes it was a black person,
like an Asian person, and so as a black person
out and walking around, I'm like, Okay, how do I
carry myself to make sure that the Asians know that
(19:44):
I'm safe and that I'm not here to punch I
will get and it's I'm being silly, but there is
this idea and it's no different than at night when
you're you, you live in the city, You're there's a
woman five six steps ahead of you on the sidewalk. Right,
I'm not trying to creep you out. I know I'm
(20:04):
a big dude. So to keep us both comfortable, I'm
gonna slow down my step a little bit, give your
ten feet so that you know what I mean, like
just being conscious of making sure that everybody has a
little bit of space and that everybody's comfortable. That was
problem one problem to U was for me because there
were two doormen that got fired in New York City
(20:24):
for not helping they want an Asian woman who was
being attacked on the sidewalk, and my thought was, wow, Okay,
if if that happened, what would I do? Me Roy?
And in my head, I'm like, okay, I'm going to help.
I have to break that up. But then there was
also a piece of me in my head going Okay,
(20:45):
when the police come, what are you gonna do to
make it look like the one attacking the Asian? And
I'm like, fuck, I've got to call the police on
myself and let them know that cool, set my phone up,
set up the I G live stream, then go ahead
(21:06):
like like being a little fanatical on that side. But
there were all of these levels in my head of
how could I help but also remain safe for police
and people that are pulling up with even less information
than I have, you know, when I circled the corner.
But that's that's that's an interesting thing. We could probably
explain a matter of fact, I'm gonna I'm gonna pose
(21:26):
that question to our guests. After the break, we're gonna
be joined by the wonderful, wonderful Norman Chin. He is
the CEO and co founder of leading Asian American Unite
for Change. We'll have him on in a second. This
is beyond the scenes. Are you enjoying going beyond the
scenes with me? Rannie, I'm loving it. It's the best.
It's too late, it took you too long. No, no,
(21:49):
that was the lag. That was the zoom lag. It's
too late. It's too late the commercials to start off.
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past to take action in the present and impact the future.
Ford honors African Americans who've made significant contributions in science, tech, engineering,
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and math. Ford is working towards empowering Black youth to
continue innovating within these fields and giving thanks to individuals
who have helped Forward create automotive icons like the Bronco
SUV and Thunderbird. Ford also wants to highlight their employees
who advanced to titles like Chief Technology Officer, assumed leadership
roles like Chair of Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council, and
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graduated from similar programs like those that Ford is proud
to sponsor, including the Lab Drawer and n a c
m E, the National Action Council for Minorities and Engineering
which helped build a community of leadership throughout these fields.
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dot Com, Slash Spotify. We're joined now by someone who
I trust more than Rannie Chang. You know, I'm not
saying that Ryannie Chang hasn't done the work, but least
(24:46):
I checked, Rannie Chang wasn't the CEO and co founder
of Are You CEO and co founder of Launch Rannie Chang? No,
Unfortunately I was. I was written out of the story
like hit in the launches leading Asian American Unite for Change.
His name is Norman chin Norman, thank you for joining
(25:08):
us and beyond the scenes. Great to be here. Thanks
for having me. So let's jump right back into this discussion.
We've talked about Running's piece and everything that went down
in Chinatown with Fox News, but I wanted to have
you on to talk a little bit more about where
we are today with regards to anti Asian sentiment. I
wanted to talk to you for a second about the
(25:29):
Status Index and ways that we're able to quantify what's
going on, because the thing that we deal with, no
matter what minority group you are, you're told that you're
whatever it is you're dealing with, ain't real. It's not real.
Well everybody, of course, robbery is up. It's a pandemic.
Everybody's on em like, no, man, I'm telling you, they're
(25:50):
attacking us. So how were you all able to assess
attitudes and stereotypes towards Asians over there with the Status Report?
Thanks thanks for all um. No, exactly to your point,
these stereotypes and perceptions have been prevalent in American society
for decades and actually are at the root cause of
hate crimes. If you find uh you look at research
(26:12):
about hate crimes, they stemmed just as Ronnie was saying,
from stereotypes initially that then lead to scapegoating and then
lead to violence during difficult times and crisis. This is
like COVID are once in a lifetime hopefully, so we're
seeing a repeat repetition of the cycle of stereotypes leading
to stere to skipegoating, leading to violence. So as a
(26:34):
new nonprofit last year we were formed in we were
looking for existing research on um stereotypes of Asian Americans
and shockingly, the last study that had been done comprehensively
was twenty years ago, when there are half as many
Asian Americans in the country, and so we thought that's
just a glaring uh need. There's a glaring need to
do more research about stereotypes, and so we commissioned the
(26:57):
Status Index Study, which was really checking on how Americans
now perceive Asian Americans, and unlike most other Asian American
research that's out there, we interviewed all Americans, so not
just Asian Americans about their experience, but also other racial groups.
So it was it was quite groundbreaking this year. How
safe or how unsafe? Rather would you say, um Asians,
(27:22):
fill in America right now and running out throw this
to you first, just in general during this time from
till now, is your head on the swivel more than
it was saying I think it depends on the state.
I think in Hawaii it was. It was such a
great answer. I mean, that's like a law of America, right,
(27:45):
it depends on the state. Right, Um, I will say.
And when I went back to New York City at
the peak of the pandemic and all the crimes were happening,
I definitely was you know what it's you know, that's
and that's the thing right the internet was is real life?
Real life definitely felt different to my Instagram feed in
terms of the amount of violence that was happening on
(28:06):
my Instagram feed. So real life felt way way safer
than compared to Instagram. But because of Instagram, man, my
my head was definitely on the on the swivel the
entire time in New York City. You know, I'm I'm
looking behind my back. I'm not walking down you know, streets,
I don't know I'm sprinting making behind you is at
least ten feet, so I don't racially profile. I go,
(28:30):
I do my comedy shows. I run from show to show,
make sure if someone's attacking me is because of my jokes,
not because of my race. Um and uh have my
have my phone by my side. Uh So basically it's
like living in New York City, but more it's what
we should have been doing over the last five years.
(28:51):
But this just kind of made me more aware and
and and not just for myself, but for other people
as well. If I see like an old Asian person
on the street, I'm always like, okay, well, you know,
it's my job too. It's my job to make sure
she's okay for the length of time where she's in
my field of vision, and then I pass off to
the next Asian bystanders who's walking in a separate direction.
(29:14):
So yeah, it's well looking at for other people too.
You know when we see these videos, by the way, Norm,
I don't know what you feel, And Roy, I mean no,
I don't know how you feel when we see these
videos happening to elderly Asian people. Well, I'm were not
even I'm not even worried about I'm not thinking about
myself I'm not thinking if that happens to me, I'm thinking, man,
that looks like someone that looks like my relative, that
looks my grandma, like my aunts, my grand aunt. Like
(29:36):
I'm worried about them more than worried about me. You know,
when I see these videos, it's not like I don't
stop fearing for my life. I'm like, man, what if
there's another Because the people being attacked on the Asian
m m A fighters, you know, those are the people.
Those are the videos we're seeing. You know, what we're
seeing the people who can't really defend themselves to that point,
(29:58):
when we talk about stereotype storm and in general and
just we know how much pop culture delves in that
and babes in that, you know, for a number of minorities,
but it seems like it's even more unique and even
worse in a way for Asians because like some of
the stereotypes will also they'll even take something positive and
just oh you do your homework, Oh you're good at math,
(30:20):
Like shouldn't we all be good at math? Like even
when you take Ronnie's film Crazy Rich Asians, which did
I would assume amazing things for helping to debunk some stereotypes.
People will turn around and see three well dressed Asians
walking down the street and just look at the rich
as Asians, Norman, how much does pop culture play a
role in that? And have you seen any improvements in
(30:43):
any regard that would help you believe that the tide
is turning? And how Asians are at least portrayed in entertainment,
you know, Ron, that was one of the key areas
of our research is about how Asians are perceived in
the media and TV and movies, because that's a key
source of information for many communities about Acian Americans. A
lot of the communities don't have Asian American France, and
(31:03):
so they look to movies. And the question that you
may have heard of that got a lot of press
was we asked people to name a prominent Asian American,
and of Americans could not name a single prominent Asian American.
And the number two and three answers they gave we're
all martial artists. Number two was Jackie Chan, who we
love but who is actually not American. He's from Hong Kong.
(31:25):
And number three was Bruce Lee, who is also you know,
martial artists. But the years so uh, and you look
at the roles people see Asian Americans in the men
are the gangsters, they're the nerds, the technicians. The women
are the massius workers. They're the um, the way the waitress, exactly,
(31:50):
all the step roles. So a lot of those stereotypes
still persist. You know, our research was important because no
one again had done this research for twenty years. So
we re est ablished, we quantified a baseline. This is
where things are. It's not good, but at least we
know where we are. Hopefully, over the next one year,
three year, five year, ten years won't be Americans who
still can't name a freaking prominent Asian Americans. So we're
(32:13):
hoping to track progress over time. But but to your point, yes,
a lot of these stereotypes still exist. The fact that
Ronnie and others were able to show Asians in a
positive light, right, it's being successful and being um frankly
physically attractive. Right, when's the last time we saw an
Asian American male take his shirt off in a movie?
We had a lot of that crazy rich agents and
(32:35):
a lot of the Asian American men in the country
we're celebrating, and a lot of Asian American women as well.
There are definitely trends and positive signs, and I think
a lot more movies and TV shows are coming out,
which is really encouraging. But this, this brings me back,
(32:57):
you know that, And and that makes me think about
the overall solution to everything we're talking about, And there
is no one thing, you know, I think in America
we always want this, like we want the app that
fixes everything. We want the go fund me that will
end racism, you know, we want that one home run solution.
(33:17):
And like, these are complicated social problems, multifactorial issues, you know,
that require attacking from different places. So yeah, one aspect
of the attack is you know, pr hencoding taking the
shirt off in cratizations that that moves the needle a
little bit, I won't you know, it doesn't solve everything,
(33:38):
but it definitely helps a little bit. And some of
it is where the funding is going, or the on
the on the street's actual help, some of its legislation.
Some of it is you know, messaging. So so like
all this stuff plays into it. And that's why having
the data helps because it helps us understand where we
can attack. It also helps prove that there is an issue,
(33:59):
you know, yeah know. One of the questions we asked
our respondents is how would you address these problems about
anti Asian American sentiment and stereotypes in the US. And
the answers were exactly what what what you mentioned? In
terms of awareness, in terms of legislation, in terms of
UH solidarity, in terms of um more media attention. The
(34:22):
other key solution is education, and I wanted to touch
upon that. You know, when we grew up, very few
of us had the opportunity to learn about Asian American
history in classrooms in the US. And now, as you know,
recently Illinois mandated the teaching of Asian American history and
public schools, which is a huge milestone, and other states
are moving in that direction. And so clearly more Asian
(34:44):
American history knowledge is important. These are cycles there. There
were lynchings in eighteen seventy one of Asian Americans in
l A. People no one knows about that. A lot
of people don't even know about the Japanese interment during
World War two. And so to make this information more
excess sable to young kids, who are really the key
to address before they become racist adults, we're working with
(35:07):
a group called the Asian American Education Project to provide
a graphic novel overview of the highlights of Asian American history.
So think about your fourth grade, fifth grade kid. You
don't want to learn even about your own history. How
do you make Asian American history interesting and accessible? And
we're working with an award winning comic book Greater to
create an overview of it that hits all the highlights
(35:28):
of Asian American history so that schools and teachers and
students can get this information in a very accessible way.
We can share it digitally as well. These are the
things we're trying to do to really have an impact
to create more education. But to Ronnie's point, it's it's
a it's a movement that needs to happen, and we're
starting to get organized, starting to have resources, but there's
(35:48):
a ton of work to do in many different areas
and many different areas, many different areas. If anyone listening
to this anything to take away from anything, what's saying
is go find the people who are doing things, because
there's a ton of people who care, and it's some
people who are doing smart things in many different areas.
You know, maybe you like being a vigilante on the street.
You know that's vigilante groups you can join to beat
(36:09):
people up. Maybe you like being a bit more, you know, like, uh,
you like raising money to help small businesses. You know
there's organizations raising money to help the businesses in China.
There's there's people trying to um puts as norm just mentioned,
educate kids. You know there's people are doing stuff. Okay,
so then let's talk solutions after the break, because I
(36:30):
have a couple of questions of how I non Asian
can be a part of this. This is so dope running.
I feel like the white women talking to black people
like I just want you to know that I see
you and I am an ally thank you. We're trying
to get the Karen's on board. I'm black, I'm a
(36:53):
Keith beyond the scenes, We'll be right back. Let's episode
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When asked to name a prominent Asian American, Norman, I
have all the statistics here, man, this is very interesting.
Americans couldn't do with eleven percent named Jackie Chan not percent,
Bruce Lee five percent, Lucy Lou two Kamala Harris. And
(39:07):
you brought up, you know, hang on what percentage was?
Did they mentioned me? Hang on? Let me zoom, man,
it's probably statistically insignificant. Yeah, trick question, trick question, Ronnie,
You're not on the list. Next year. Next let's talk
solutions on how I can get on that list I
(39:29):
want to be with now, Norman, you brought up something
with regards to one solution that I think makes sense,
which is education and the curriculum. You know, I grew
up in Alabama, which is I grew up in Alabama
public schools late eighties, all of the nineties. And I
(39:50):
say this not joking. I am not joking with you.
I did not meet my first Asian person until the
eighth grade. So in terms of these areas where a
lot of this bigger tree is happening and a lot
of that bigger tree is believed, there's not a lot
(40:10):
of Asians there. And so I know that there's definitely
a role that the school system plays. And you know, Ronnie,
you talked about people being active within their own communities
and connecting with the It's it's crazy because you're basically
saying the same thing that black people, the same thing
we've been saying white people. Find someone that's doing the work,
and show up and go what can I do well
(40:31):
at the start as a starting point. Yeah, yeah, as
a starting point, show up and vote, and show up
and and get involved the organizations that I'm doing things,
Because like I said before the break, there's a ton
of organizations while trying to help. And I'm in America
by choice. I'm in America by choice because I think
there's more good people there than bad people, way more
(40:51):
good people than bad people. And I think the fact
that we are talking about this, the fact that norm
did this study, it shows that there are people who
can you know, there's um those are kind of more
of the grassroot, you know, solutions. But let's talk on
the political side. Norman did the anti Asian hate crime bill,
(41:12):
the COVID nighting hate crimes. At is that enough from
President Biden to help stop the swell of what you've
seen happening in your community. No, I mean, I think
most people would agree it's it's the tip of the
iceberg or what needs to be done. But it's a
positive step in the right direction. So, you know, it
helps to create more reporting channels for people to report
(41:34):
the hate crimes. That's important. Um there, it sets aside
information money for education about racism towards Asian Americans. That's
all important. But it's like the drug war, like you've
got to started fight the war at the source, right,
what's causing these hate crimes and what's leading to the
stereotypes and the scapegoating and the violence. And so media
(41:55):
is very powerful, Hollywood, TV, movies, Um, the news is
very powerful, right in terms of how Asian American stories
are reported, and so there are groups activating to try
to get more coverage about Asian American stories. Education, as
we talked about, is extremely important to shape hearts and minds.
We were fortunate, in terms of politically to be invited
(42:18):
by Congressman Ted Lieu to present to the Congressional Asian
Pacific American Caucus and where we shared our data so
that the legislators and the political leaders can have more
information that they can use to fight their battles. And
so that's one way we're trying to link with the legislators,
you know, getting Asian American history taught in schools. That
(42:38):
requires legislation, right, and so it requires political activity, and
so that is a very important channel to get things
done as well. All Right, So, Norman, there's certain crimes
in this country that get more attention from the media
than others, crimes of a racial nature. How much does
the media player role? And I the example I want
(43:00):
use is the mass shootings of the Asian massage parlors
in Atlanta. You have a gentleman who goes from parlor
to parlor killing people. And I know that there was
an element of sexual addiction that was a part of that,
but that does not absolve race from also being a
piece of the motive for those crimes. But not only
does that not get turned into well did he kill
(43:22):
him because of sexual shame or did he kill him
because they were Asian? Or was it a little bit
of they just stopped talking about it altogether. So let
me amplify your point with a couple of additional data
points there. Um Roy. First of all, we did our
study in uh March April of this year, and one
of the regrets we had when we first did the
(43:43):
study was, gosh, I wish we had done the study
before the Atlanta killings, because then even more Americans would
be unaware. Right, we thought everyone would know about the
anti Asian American sentiment. Shockingly, again, of Americans, basically a
third of Americans say they're not ware of the increase
in hate crimes towards Asian Americans in the past year.
(44:03):
So I don't know where they're getting the information from.
But clearly, it's not share it's not representing the hate
crimes that are affecting women in Atlanta and other places.
That's one data point. The second data point is I
just was on at an event in the Bay Area
with Dion Limb, who's a local newscaster and really prominent
activists in the Asian American community, and she says now
(44:25):
that when she goes to her producers and has you know,
sometimes five or six anti Asian American hate crime stories
each day, they're saying, you know, we're not the public
is not interested in these stories anymore, So we need
to find something else to report on. So exactly to
your point, these stories are getting buried, and so how
do you solve these problems? And these are systemic problems
(44:45):
for sure. One era that a lot of people are
focusing on, I think makes sense is representation. How many
of their producers or senior people at these media companies
are Asian American and care about Asian American stories, right,
I think that is critical, and I think that's an
area where we have seen, you know, significant underrepresentation of
(45:06):
Asian Americans and leadership positions. One of the key statistics
from our study was that half of Americans think that
Asian Americans are actually well represented. They think, hey, model
minority or smart, hardworking, we must be successful, it must
be leaders. Well, actually, we're underrepresented in terms of leadership positions,
in terms of Supreme Court justices, of which there are
(45:26):
zero Asian Americans, in terms of the corporate world, in
terms of the political world, in terms of owning TV
stations and movies, movies stations, etcetera. We are severely underrepresented.
Yet people are under the illusion that Asian Americans are
well represented. So I think representation is a key part
of the puzzle. Uh. And only when you have leaders
who appreciate and understand Asian, the Asian American experience, and
(45:50):
the Black experience and the Hispanic experience do we have
real diversity and true you know, ACCRIC coverage of America
and so um, we're hoping that we'll see some changes
in that area in the next few years as well.
All Right, I'll leave you, gentlemen with this question, and
I'll let Norman go first, because I know Ronnie and
I are going to argue, how do we, Norman get
(46:16):
other minorities to understand that the Asian fight is also
our fight mhm, because and I was just and as
a black person, I'm just gonna be you know, very
blunt with what some of the sentiments and other communities
where it's okay, well, how do you get a anti
Asian hate crime beal before was we've been trying to
(46:36):
get it. How do we get other groups because everybody
is so insular you know, Ronnie's very right in that
regard in America where everybody's just tending to their own farm.
You know, I've got my problems to deal with the
latinos head. We were focused on our things and how
do we get other minorities to understand that if anybody
(46:59):
can through, it's good for everybody. Totally. Yeah, a lot
of the issues that we identify apply to other racial
groups and people of color, and so one of our
goals is much it's more outreach to other communities of color,
to reach out to the African American black community and
Hispanic Latino community. There is much more that we share
(47:20):
in common in terms of our experience, uh in a
white America that then that separates us, so outreach is critical. Um.
We also believe that working closely with these partners on
initiatives such as diversity in the media, such as fair representation,
are really critical. So, um, yeah, I think it's it's
(47:43):
a key part of the solution. And I say the
onus is not just on it's on both, on both
sides of the equation. Right. In our study, we found that, uh,
that certain communities have less inner action with Asian Americans
and so they don't know Asian American culture. That's why
they see them as others. So we need to build
more bridges between these communities who people can appreciate. The
(48:05):
Asian Americans who some people think are as cold and
unfriendly and not warm. Well, they've never been to my
house or Ronnie's house for a dinner party, right, They've
never had time to hang out with our grandparents and
our parents and and just really enjoy each other's company
and have great Asian food together. We need to share
that experience more, uh and let people know just you know,
how warm and dynamic our culture is. Uh, and also
(48:28):
again break down these barriers. So I think at the
micro level, interaction among different groups is really really critical.
That's how you just like you, I mean you didn't
maybe didn't meet the Asian American to eighth grade. But
then once you get to know Asian Americans, then you
start to have a more well rounded understanding of them
and hopefully developed good friendships. So, Ronnie, how do you
(48:50):
get me to care about your ship? I don't mean Asians,
I mean me as Roy caring about Ronnie's problems, just
your personal problems. Man, you get you invested into my life,
maybe give you some equity? Should have listen to your
That's a separate conversation. I mean we were pretty invest
(49:11):
in each other's lives already. I think I think the
community as a whole, you know. Uh, someone put it
to me really well once. Look, I don't have the solutions, man,
I tell jokes and boss for a living. I don't
know how to save the world. What I do know
is that, yeah, we we There's more good people than
bad people in America. And that goes for minority groups.
There's more good minority group people, goes without saying, obviously
(49:35):
than bad people. Um. And when we join together on
issues that we do agree on, it increases our voting strength.
It creates a more powerful voting block. Because Asian people
are what four percent no, was it four percent? Seven strong? Right?
And what's the African Americans are what thirteen cannon just
(49:59):
had four more? A Latino knows how what if you
join all together, there's a voting block there. You know,
there's a stronger voting block which which allows you if
we work together to get legislation pass it, it benefits
all of us, you know, and nothing against white people too.
We need white people to help out, and most white
people are on board. But when you're it's so hard
(50:21):
to explain sometimes, and that's why only minorities get that,
and that's why we should get along in America's because
sometimes it's not that anyone is blatantly being evil, it's
just that the system isself in a way that you
can't even begin to explain the issues you're having. How
many times have you gone into a room and been like, now,
these people are even gonna get what I'm saying. I'm
(50:41):
I'm talking about my you know, Asian grandma on the streets,
who don't you know, they don't understand what you know,
They're not gonna get it. Whereas if you talk to
Latino people, black people don't understand it more. And so
if we can get more like minded people in decision making, positions.
You know, that's where kind of we can stop moving
the needle with change, and that's why we should be
joining together as a voting block. You know, that's my
(51:04):
argument to you, Roy. I mean, you can also play
it back on me as you always do, and you
know we can. America will continue on. You know what
I view I view America as a d m V
and everybody's in there for their own issue. But the
moment one person starts complaining, you need three other people
to start complaining and then that line of justice will
(51:27):
move a little bit faster. Norman Chin from Launch, thank
you so much leading Asian American Unite for Change. Visit
them online. Launch dot org. That's launched like Space Shuttle
with two a's launch Because I know I have a
Southern drawl, and you think I said lunch and I
didn't say launch. I said launch like a rocket to
(51:47):
as dot org. Norman, thank you so much for coming
beyond the scenes with me. Thank you so much, Roy,
Thank you, Ronny and Ronnie. I'll I'll see you whenever
the whenever the funk. We're back in the office. Clean
up your side please, Okay, all right, that's it. Take
care of everybody listen to The Daily Show Beyond the
(52:11):
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So you're know, like when you get a salad, right,
you get a salad and then you get the dressing
on the side so you can feel healthy when the
(01:51):
truth is yet, You're just gonna put the dressing on
a little bit, bit by bit, and then by the
end of your salad you've already used all the dressing
that was on the side. That's what this podcast is.
This is the dressing on the side of the Daily Show.
I'm Roy Wood Jr. This is beyond the scenes where
we go, beyond the topics and the discussions that we
(02:13):
have on the Daily Show. I sit down with correspondence, producers, writers,
anybody that had anything to do with the piece happening.
We talked to them on this show and you enjoy
it and it is as delicious as the Daily Show
because it's on the side and see what it's on
the side. It feels healthier. Baby. If you're right now,
you're getting a couple of extra calories. Just listening to me.
(02:34):
What the hell am I talking about? You don't care? Uh?
The piece we're going to go beyond on this week,
Um is the o'rilly factor getting racist in Chinatown. This
is when Ronny Chain responded to some racist as ship
that was on Fox News. Uh. If you didn't see
the original segment Jesse Waters from Fox News. This is
(02:55):
during the election and Trump was talking China this, China that,
and he went down to Chinatown to do what was
supposed to be quote unquote journalism and having a real
discussion with Asian people. But really what he was doing
was exploiting people who did not speak English and then
going around town partaking in all of the different stuff
(03:15):
that basically just highlighted a bunch of Asian stereotypes. He
got a foot massage, he played with some nunchucks, he
played kung fu fighting, and my man Runney Chain caught
window this ship and he clapped back in a major way.
(03:38):
Am I supposed to bow to say hello? Play out lay?
Heal I liked his watches? Are they hot? Penny Nate?
What are you gonna vote for? Wife? Clinton's wife has
a name? What is it? Old man? Forget it? Snap
out of it? You know karate? Yeah? I hit my hand.
(03:59):
Oh that's the spot. Is it the year of the
Dragon crab it? No, it's actually the year of go yourself?
(04:21):
How was that? How was that on the news? In fact,
how is that even on TV? Where did has come from?
I mean everyone's been wondering who would be the tig
of twenty six teams? Was racism? I don't even know?
Asians going to running? Okay, So we're going to discuss
the rise of anti Asian hate in this country, where
it came from, what we can do to stop it,
(04:42):
and a little later in the program, we're going to
be joined by Norman Chen, the CEO and co founder
of Leading Asian Americans Unite for Change. But first, it
is my pleasure to go beyond the scenes with my
office mate. He is my friend, he is You're a
day one man. You're my day one from my first
(05:04):
day at the Daily Show, you were right there. I
think I beat you to the five minutes, which makes
me the senior correspondent because I beat into the building
by five minutes on our first day. Uh, Ronnie, you
did this piece. This is Ronnie Chang by the Way
Daily Show Correspondent extraordin near Ronnie Chang. Yeah, thanks, thanks
for talking about this man. And you're my day one too.
(05:26):
You and I are good friends and we talk a
lot in our office. Like we we actually discussed that
one one moment doing a podcast together, just us rambling
and ship, just our rambles. But I think we both
decided that we talked about a lot of stuff that
should remaining off the record. Um yeah, I think you
You didn't even say we should talk about it. You
said you wanted to install cameras and just keep it
(05:49):
on record and then cut clips about what was I
don't want to do that. Yeah, I wanted to big
brother our office, just a live stream of ruin Ronnie,
just solving every problem. Which speaking of solving problems, Ronnie,
it's gonna be a lot of you eating subway sangwich,
that's what's gonna be. Hey, we will discuss subway tuna later. Okay,
(06:11):
they said it's tuna. They just don't know which kind
of tuna that's we're getting off stuff Ronnie in why
did you fail to solve Asian racism? Anti Asian sentiment?
Why did you fail? It was a bait and switch.
I thought we solved it. Um. I thought racism was
(06:32):
over after that video, and then you know, they did
a pump fake and then they went the other way
and it came back. They came back hot. They racism
came back and went hot to the rim. You know
what I mean. Racist broke the bad boy Anti Asian
racism it was down oh to like the Milwaukee Bucks,
and gave itself a lot of came back hot. They
(06:55):
came back so hard. There. We joke a lot on
the show, but this was a piece that you know,
it was what we call in in the Daily Show
office is a quick turn. This is where the news
breaks and rather than go through a formal booking like no,
Rannie was like, Yo, where's the camera, I'm going to Chinatown.
Just for the people who don't know who've missed a piece,
give me the back story on what lit this fire
(07:17):
so fast From the time from the time this piece
aired on Fox News, I think our response air maybe
thirty six hours later, if that, yeah, it was yeah, yeah,
So once things hit the z guys in American News.
Then it starts to enter the building a bit and
this this the underlying story, which is the Fox News
(07:39):
story was actually causing so much grief in America that
it hit the pop culture as that guys and then
that entered the building, which I mean, to be fair,
already entered the building the day before, but it started
building overnight to the point where the Daily Show had
to address it. We decided to go to Chinatown to
(08:00):
get the response of people from that neighborhood who will
interviewed the same neighborhood that was interviewed in the Fox
News segment. And um, we went down and I was
worried that because in Singapore and Malaysia, people get really
apathetic about politics and they're very hesitant to be on
(08:20):
screen and they're very hesitant to be on screen talking
about politics. So I didn't know if that would be
the same thing we would face in New York City
China Town. But what we found, the entire Daily Show
team found was that it was the exact opposite, because
as soon as we got to New York City Chinatown,
people literally as soon as we got out of the car,
(08:40):
and I was dressed in the suit, and they as
soon as they saw me, They're like, hey, are you
here to talk about that thing that happened yesterday? And
I was like yeah, and they're like, come over here.
And then they brought us to the place in Chinatown
and people lined up around the block to talk to us.
Lined up, so it was likely, Yeah, people don't normally
(09:04):
line up to talk to us. So I literally I
was just standing there as people came one after the
other to come and and bitch about what happened yesterday.
What are your thoughts on the Jesse Waters video on
Fox News? The chicken reporter who came down here and
thought he was big because he talked to people whouldn't speaking. Yeah,
(09:24):
that douchebag pieces, the one with no testicles, the one
who came down here who said, let me talk to
some old people and let me let me put them
on camera without asking them and sort of put them
on national television and made fun of them in the
worst possible way. That asshole. Yeah, I think we're talking
about the same guy, right, all right? What was the
question again? I can't even remember the whole idea behind
the piece was that And this came from travel was
(09:45):
the idea that just because people aren't speaking your language,
whatever your language is, doesn't mean they don't have sophisticated
thoughts on politics and the way the country should be run.
So that was the idea we are doing in Chinatown,
which was trying to get their opinions, and in many
cases we made we kind of asked them to speak
Chinese all Cantonese, just to make the point that you
(10:06):
can't have sophisticated thoughts uh in the languages other than
English and so um. Yeah. The response was, you know,
it required almost no effort on our the streets. The
students didn't the talking on that one. You're more zin
du than me. But the thing that I found most
interesting about this piece for you was the lack of
(10:28):
anger from you as a correspondent. That's the thing I'm
always suppressing, Like, dude, when I'm like, like when we
did the Republican National Convention, we did the piece when
was America great? And I'm having to look at people
looked me in my black ass eyes and tell me
America was great during slavery and I'm trying not to read.
So when you went down to Chinatown on a piece
(10:50):
as as an Asian. Was this personal? Was was this
a more personal piece for you? Because yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean it felt like a direct personal attack by
this same time, you know at the Daily Show, you know,
the drill man, it's like, what like in the emergency room,
it's like we see so much crap every day that
you in order to operate professionally, you you become guy
(11:12):
desensitized and you're just here to treat the patients. And
so we just keep seeing car crashes every single day.
Eventually you're like, oh yeah, like you have an objective
view of it. And also I was pretty pissed going
back to the studio. Uh, And I remember we brought
the footage back and this is again speaks to the
team at the Daily Show, is that we we went
out to shoot, went back edited wherever we shot, wrote
(11:37):
the Death Piece and on the same night, right and
we we recorded the same night, like and you know,
few pieces are usually separate to death pieces, but this
was like the perfect e merging of Chat with Trevor
and the Death Piece and UH and a Field Element
and Man on the Street all in one day. I mean,
that's the you know for me, And that was this
early on in my daily shows, maybe one year in,
(12:00):
and I was like, man, this is the Daily Show.
Its best, you know everything, everyone's operating and firing and
all cylinders in a very short time frame. Um, and
I'm sorry to answer your question about not being piste off.
I mean, part of it is the job, and part
of it is I always feel like because I'm a
first generation immigrant to America, so I'm in America because
(12:20):
by choice, like I want to be there, and um
so when I see ship go down, I see like
I also see in this particular instance. Yeah, you can say,
you know, blatant racism, but the silver lining to this
whole story was that everyone got angry by this Fox
New piece, not just Asian people, not just Chinatown New
(12:42):
York City people, the entire country was like, Yo, this
this sucks. And that's why you entered the ze guys, right,
because if if most people thought it was okay, it
would never have you know, blown up to the point
where you know, at that time, people were pretty upset.
You know, everyone, white people upset, every race was pretty
upset about this. So if you ask me why I'm
(13:03):
not more obsessed, because oh, it was a cause that
everyone already. You know, most people were upset by the
issue already, and we were just giving them a platform
to express it. You know, who was the target audience
for this? Was it? Or I guess who were you
aiming this piece towards in a way? Like? Was it
(13:25):
was it at the reporter that went out and did it?
I you know, his name is Jesse Waters. I personally
think we should bleep his name, just bleep his name.
Is it at the reporter who went out and said
this ignorant ship even though he kind of sort of
apologized after the fact. Is it the right wingy Fox
News type media outlets that pushed this narrative or was
(13:49):
it at the people that actually thought that what he
did was real journalism and informative? Yeah? I mean it
was I think honestly it uh man, Uh, it was
for whoever wanted to listen to it. But also I
think as Asian people in America, Uh, they they never
had a way to critique the media like that. I
(14:13):
think the history of Asian American storytelling in America, there's
there's been no one in the media to critique media
portrayals of them on a big enough platform. So honestly,
it was almost to put a flag in the sand
and be like, oh, you know this, this kind of
stuff isn't acceptable anymore, you know. And it was a
sentiment I felt there was already in America, and yeah,
(14:35):
I kind of symbolically put the flag in like this
is the moment. But uh, And I was lucky to
be happened to be in a position to do it
right because we wanted to show that criticizes news and media.
That's what I'll show essentially is right and so um,
I happened to be on the perfect platform to do it.
But like I said, I think most people in America
didn't think it was okay even at the time. No,
(14:58):
not in the least. The thing that's so interesting about
this country, though, is that every minority group is dealing
with their own racism. Two. So then when you find
out about the new racism, it's like, oh, okay, well,
I'll be right there in a second. I'm currently getting
(15:19):
beaten the head back up. I'll be right there as
soon as I finished dealing with my own traumas. And
it's it's very difficult, and I think it's very dope
that so many people were willing to speak out, which
brings me, as a matter of fact, now you already
know the role that Trump played and stirring the pot
from up until COVID. But at COVID, I feel like
(15:43):
that's when the pot went from medium to hot for well,
from hot too hotter for anti Asian American sentiment. You know,
there was a fifty percent spike and uh anti Asian
crime in then also you know everything that started with
COVID and it's starting in China, and then Trump driving
(16:05):
the narrative of oh, it's the you know what he
said about it. I'm not going to even repeat what
they call the coronavirus at the time or whatever, but
the China virus is that one. I can say. I'm
not gonna say the other one, but it really you
can say it. I'm not gonna say it. I'm not
gonna say the case so weird that we have to
(16:25):
tiptoe around quoting the president in case we say a slur,
we can't direct it's just you insert slur here. Just
whatever you think he said, he said it. Do you think,
like how much of that contributed to the uptick in violence?
(16:49):
And the bigger question, the bigger question, do you think that, Like,
do you think that like Fox News and Trump were
following their base what they just given to people what
they want when it turns in terms of stirring up racism,
or were they leading them to this and then creating racism? Yeah,
(17:10):
I mean I think it's one of the go to
moves in the playbook is to blame people who look
different to them, Right, that's one of the go to,
um fascist moves, I guess. Um. So I think that
was the easy you know, when when bad stuff happens anywhere,
(17:32):
I mean, let's just say in America, then people look
for someone to blame, right, And so I think putting
it on the whole race of people is a way
to direct their anger. I think it's also weird in
America that they like people. I think Asian people were
kind of under the radar a bit until this thing happened,
(17:52):
and then now it became It kind of gave people
an excuse to like go after m Asian people if
you're having trouble. But I will say in America, I
think what's interesting about being Asian America is that you're
kind of always you know, the idea of being a
perpetual foreigner in America, like Asian Americans aren't usually like
(18:17):
they're always seen as having to like answer for stuff
that happened in Asia or you know, like everyone's always
putting stuff that happened in Asia on Asian Americans when
they're very separate cultures. Like I love, Asian Americans haven't
left America before they were like born and raised and
they never left, you know, and so it's almost like
(18:39):
quite frankly, like African Americans being asked about stuff that
happens in Africa, or like Anglo Americans being asked about
stuff in the UK, you know, like what happened in
what's going on with Bregsit you know, like most people
don't know what's happen. A love these Asian Americans are
just Asian American culture. But I guess my point is
that that's that's uh, that's the way I kind of
(19:01):
describe the perpetual for or nothing is that you're you're
always being asked about stuff over there, and so you've
got nothing to Most most as Americans have nothing to
do with the stuff over there. You know. The thing
for me, when the uptick happened, when the jump and
anti Asian sentiment and the crime started happening, especially in
(19:22):
the New York area. Um, you know, it was people
of all races perpetuating these crimes. But there was also
a lot of videos where sometimes it was a black person,
like an Asian person, and so as a black person
out and walking around, I'm like, Okay, how do I
carry myself to make sure that the Asians know that
(19:44):
I'm safe and that I'm not here to punch I
will get and it's I'm being silly, but there is
this idea and it's no different than at night when
you're you, you live in the city, You're there's a
woman five six steps ahead of you on the sidewalk. Right,
I'm not trying to creep you out. I know I'm
(20:04):
a big dude. So to keep us both comfortable, I'm
gonna slow down my step a little bit, give your
ten feet so that you know what I mean, like
just being conscious of making sure that everybody has a
little bit of space and that everybody's comfortable. That was
problem one problem to U was for me because there
were two doormen that got fired in New York City
(20:24):
for not helping they want an Asian woman who was
being attacked on the sidewalk, and my thought was, wow, Okay,
if if that happened, what would I do? Me Roy?
And in my head, I'm like, okay, I'm going to help.
I have to break that up. But then there was
also a piece of me in my head going Okay,
(20:45):
when the police come, what are you gonna do to
make it look like the one attacking the Asian? And
I'm like, fuck, I've got to call the police on
myself and let them know that cool, set my phone up,
set up the I G live stream, then go ahead
(21:06):
like like being a little fanatical on that side. But
there were all of these levels in my head of
how could I help but also remain safe for police
and people that are pulling up with even less information
than I have, you know, when I circled the corner.
But that's that's that's an interesting thing. We could probably
explain a matter of fact, I'm gonna I'm gonna pose
(21:26):
that question to our guests. After the break, we're gonna
be joined by the wonderful, wonderful Norman Chin. He is
the CEO and co founder of leading Asian American Unite
for Change. We'll have him on in a second. This
is beyond the scenes. Are you enjoying going beyond the
scenes with me? Rannie, I'm loving it. It's the best.
It's too late, it took you too long. No, no,
(21:49):
that was the lag. That was the zoom lag. It's
too late. It's too late the commercials to start off.
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for all built Ford Proud. Ford Motor Company is committed
to leading an innovation with its products and services, but
in innovative future requires future innovators. We learn from the
past to take action in the present and impact the future.
Ford honors African Americans who've made significant contributions in science, tech, engineering,
(23:21):
and math. Ford is working towards empowering Black youth to
continue innovating within these fields and giving thanks to individuals
who have helped Forward create automotive icons like the Bronco
SUV and Thunderbird. Ford also wants to highlight their employees
who advanced to titles like Chief Technology Officer, assumed leadership
roles like Chair of Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council, and
(23:43):
graduated from similar programs like those that Ford is proud
to sponsor, including the Lab Drawer and n a c
m E, the National Action Council for Minorities and Engineering
which helped build a community of leadership throughout these fields.
Our purpose is to help build a better world where
every person is free to move and pursue their dreams.
Ford pays tribute to Black history, are shared present, and
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dot Com, Slash Spotify. We're joined now by someone who
I trust more than Rannie Chang. You know, I'm not
saying that Ryannie Chang hasn't done the work, but least
(24:46):
I checked, Rannie Chang wasn't the CEO and co founder
of Are You CEO and co founder of Launch Rannie Chang? No,
Unfortunately I was. I was written out of the story
like hit in the launches leading Asian American Unite for Change.
His name is Norman chin Norman, thank you for joining
(25:08):
us and beyond the scenes. Great to be here. Thanks
for having me. So let's jump right back into this discussion.
We've talked about Running's piece and everything that went down
in Chinatown with Fox News, but I wanted to have
you on to talk a little bit more about where
we are today with regards to anti Asian sentiment. I
wanted to talk to you for a second about the
(25:29):
Status Index and ways that we're able to quantify what's
going on, because the thing that we deal with, no
matter what minority group you are, you're told that you're
whatever it is you're dealing with, ain't real. It's not real.
Well everybody, of course, robbery is up. It's a pandemic.
Everybody's on em like, no, man, I'm telling you, they're
(25:50):
attacking us. So how were you all able to assess
attitudes and stereotypes towards Asians over there with the Status Report?
Thanks thanks for all um. No, exactly to your point,
these stereotypes and perceptions have been prevalent in American society
for decades and actually are at the root cause of
hate crimes. If you find uh you look at research
(26:12):
about hate crimes, they stemmed just as Ronnie was saying,
from stereotypes initially that then lead to scapegoating and then
lead to violence during difficult times and crisis. This is
like COVID are once in a lifetime hopefully, so we're
seeing a repeat repetition of the cycle of stereotypes leading
to stere to skipegoating, leading to violence. So as a
(26:34):
new nonprofit last year we were formed in we were
looking for existing research on um stereotypes of Asian Americans
and shockingly, the last study that had been done comprehensively
was twenty years ago, when there are half as many
Asian Americans in the country, and so we thought that's
just a glaring uh need. There's a glaring need to
do more research about stereotypes, and so we commissioned the
(26:57):
Status Index Study, which was really checking on how Americans
now perceive Asian Americans, and unlike most other Asian American
research that's out there, we interviewed all Americans, so not
just Asian Americans about their experience, but also other racial groups.
So it was it was quite groundbreaking this year. How
safe or how unsafe? Rather would you say, um Asians,
(27:22):
fill in America right now and running out throw this
to you first, just in general during this time from
till now, is your head on the swivel more than
it was saying I think it depends on the state.
I think in Hawaii it was. It was such a
great answer. I mean, that's like a law of America, right,
(27:45):
it depends on the state. Right, Um, I will say.
And when I went back to New York City at
the peak of the pandemic and all the crimes were happening,
I definitely was you know what it's you know, that's
and that's the thing right the internet was is real life?
Real life definitely felt different to my Instagram feed in
terms of the amount of violence that was happening on
(28:06):
my Instagram feed. So real life felt way way safer
than compared to Instagram. But because of Instagram, man, my
my head was definitely on the on the swivel the
entire time in New York City. You know, I'm I'm
looking behind my back. I'm not walking down you know, streets,
I don't know I'm sprinting making behind you is at
least ten feet, so I don't racially profile. I go,
(28:30):
I do my comedy shows. I run from show to show,
make sure if someone's attacking me is because of my jokes,
not because of my race. Um and uh have my
have my phone by my side. Uh So basically it's
like living in New York City, but more it's what
we should have been doing over the last five years.
(28:51):
But this just kind of made me more aware and
and and not just for myself, but for other people
as well. If I see like an old Asian person
on the street, I'm always like, okay, well, you know,
it's my job too. It's my job to make sure
she's okay for the length of time where she's in
my field of vision, and then I pass off to
the next Asian bystanders who's walking in a separate direction.
(29:14):
So yeah, it's well looking at for other people too.
You know when we see these videos, by the way, Norm,
I don't know what you feel, And Roy, I mean no,
I don't know how you feel when we see these
videos happening to elderly Asian people. Well, I'm were not
even I'm not even worried about I'm not thinking about
myself I'm not thinking if that happens to me, I'm thinking, man,
that looks like someone that looks like my relative, that
looks my grandma, like my aunts, my grand aunt. Like
(29:36):
I'm worried about them more than worried about me. You know,
when I see these videos, it's not like I don't
stop fearing for my life. I'm like, man, what if
there's another Because the people being attacked on the Asian
m m A fighters, you know, those are the people.
Those are the videos we're seeing. You know, what we're
seeing the people who can't really defend themselves to that point,
(29:58):
when we talk about stereotype storm and in general and
just we know how much pop culture delves in that
and babes in that, you know, for a number of minorities,
but it seems like it's even more unique and even
worse in a way for Asians because like some of
the stereotypes will also they'll even take something positive and
just oh you do your homework, Oh you're good at math,
(30:20):
Like shouldn't we all be good at math? Like even
when you take Ronnie's film Crazy Rich Asians, which did
I would assume amazing things for helping to debunk some stereotypes.
People will turn around and see three well dressed Asians
walking down the street and just look at the rich
as Asians, Norman, how much does pop culture play a
role in that? And have you seen any improvements in
(30:43):
any regard that would help you believe that the tide
is turning? And how Asians are at least portrayed in entertainment,
you know, Ron, that was one of the key areas
of our research is about how Asians are perceived in
the media and TV and movies, because that's a key
source of information for many communities about Acian Americans. A
lot of the communities don't have Asian American France, and
(31:03):
so they look to movies. And the question that you
may have heard of that got a lot of press
was we asked people to name a prominent Asian American,
and of Americans could not name a single prominent Asian American.
And the number two and three answers they gave we're
all martial artists. Number two was Jackie Chan, who we
love but who is actually not American. He's from Hong Kong.
(31:25):
And number three was Bruce Lee, who is also you know,
martial artists. But the years so uh, and you look
at the roles people see Asian Americans in the men
are the gangsters, they're the nerds, the technicians. The women
are the massius workers. They're the um, the way the waitress, exactly,
(31:50):
all the step roles. So a lot of those stereotypes
still persist. You know, our research was important because no
one again had done this research for twenty years. So
we re est ablished, we quantified a baseline. This is
where things are. It's not good, but at least we
know where we are. Hopefully, over the next one year,
three year, five year, ten years won't be Americans who
still can't name a freaking prominent Asian Americans. So we're
(32:13):
hoping to track progress over time. But but to your point, yes,
a lot of these stereotypes still exist. The fact that
Ronnie and others were able to show Asians in a
positive light, right, it's being successful and being um frankly
physically attractive. Right, when's the last time we saw an
Asian American male take his shirt off in a movie?
We had a lot of that crazy rich agents and
(32:35):
a lot of the Asian American men in the country
we're celebrating, and a lot of Asian American women as well.
There are definitely trends and positive signs, and I think
a lot more movies and TV shows are coming out,
which is really encouraging. But this, this brings me back,
(32:57):
you know that, And and that makes me think about
the overall solution to everything we're talking about, And there
is no one thing, you know, I think in America
we always want this, like we want the app that
fixes everything. We want the go fund me that will
end racism, you know, we want that one home run solution.
(33:17):
And like, these are complicated social problems, multifactorial issues, you know,
that require attacking from different places. So yeah, one aspect
of the attack is you know, pr hencoding taking the
shirt off in cratizations that that moves the needle a
little bit, I won't you know, it doesn't solve everything,
(33:38):
but it definitely helps a little bit. And some of
it is where the funding is going, or the on
the on the street's actual help, some of its legislation.
Some of it is you know, messaging. So so like
all this stuff plays into it. And that's why having
the data helps because it helps us understand where we
can attack. It also helps prove that there is an issue,
(33:59):
you know, yeah know. One of the questions we asked
our respondents is how would you address these problems about
anti Asian American sentiment and stereotypes in the US. And
the answers were exactly what what what you mentioned? In
terms of awareness, in terms of legislation, in terms of
UH solidarity, in terms of um more media attention. The
(34:22):
other key solution is education, and I wanted to touch
upon that. You know, when we grew up, very few
of us had the opportunity to learn about Asian American
history in classrooms in the US. And now, as you know,
recently Illinois mandated the teaching of Asian American history and
public schools, which is a huge milestone, and other states
are moving in that direction. And so clearly more Asian
(34:44):
American history knowledge is important. These are cycles there. There
were lynchings in eighteen seventy one of Asian Americans in
l A. People no one knows about that. A lot
of people don't even know about the Japanese interment during
World War two. And so to make this information more
excess sable to young kids, who are really the key
to address before they become racist adults, we're working with
(35:07):
a group called the Asian American Education Project to provide
a graphic novel overview of the highlights of Asian American history.
So think about your fourth grade, fifth grade kid. You
don't want to learn even about your own history. How
do you make Asian American history interesting and accessible? And
we're working with an award winning comic book Greater to
create an overview of it that hits all the highlights
(35:28):
of Asian American history so that schools and teachers and
students can get this information in a very accessible way.
We can share it digitally as well. These are the
things we're trying to do to really have an impact
to create more education. But to Ronnie's point, it's it's
a it's a movement that needs to happen, and we're
starting to get organized, starting to have resources, but there's
(35:48):
a ton of work to do in many different areas
and many different areas, many different areas. If anyone listening
to this anything to take away from anything, what's saying
is go find the people who are doing things, because
there's a ton of people who care, and it's some
people who are doing smart things in many different areas.
You know, maybe you like being a vigilante on the street.
You know that's vigilante groups you can join to beat
(36:09):
people up. Maybe you like being a bit more, you know, like, uh,
you like raising money to help small businesses. You know
there's organizations raising money to help the businesses in China.
There's there's people trying to um puts as norm just mentioned,
educate kids. You know there's people are doing stuff. Okay,
so then let's talk solutions after the break, because I
(36:30):
have a couple of questions of how I non Asian
can be a part of this. This is so dope running.
I feel like the white women talking to black people
like I just want you to know that I see
you and I am an ally thank you. We're trying
to get the Karen's on board. I'm black, I'm a
(36:53):
Keith beyond the scenes, We'll be right back. Let's episode
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When asked to name a prominent Asian American, Norman, I
have all the statistics here, man, this is very interesting.
Americans couldn't do with eleven percent named Jackie Chan not percent,
Bruce Lee five percent, Lucy Lou two Kamala Harris. And
(39:07):
you brought up, you know, hang on what percentage was?
Did they mentioned me? Hang on? Let me zoom, man,
it's probably statistically insignificant. Yeah, trick question, trick question, Ronnie,
You're not on the list. Next year. Next let's talk
solutions on how I can get on that list I
(39:29):
want to be with now, Norman, you brought up something
with regards to one solution that I think makes sense,
which is education and the curriculum. You know, I grew
up in Alabama, which is I grew up in Alabama
public schools late eighties, all of the nineties. And I
(39:50):
say this not joking. I am not joking with you.
I did not meet my first Asian person until the
eighth grade. So in terms of these areas where a
lot of this bigger tree is happening and a lot
of that bigger tree is believed, there's not a lot
(40:10):
of Asians there. And so I know that there's definitely
a role that the school system plays. And you know, Ronnie,
you talked about people being active within their own communities
and connecting with the It's it's crazy because you're basically
saying the same thing that black people, the same thing
we've been saying white people. Find someone that's doing the work,
and show up and go what can I do well
(40:31):
at the start as a starting point. Yeah, yeah, as
a starting point, show up and vote, and show up
and and get involved the organizations that I'm doing things,
Because like I said before the break, there's a ton
of organizations while trying to help. And I'm in America
by choice. I'm in America by choice because I think
there's more good people there than bad people, way more
(40:51):
good people than bad people. And I think the fact
that we are talking about this, the fact that norm
did this study, it shows that there are people who
can you know, there's um those are kind of more
of the grassroot, you know, solutions. But let's talk on
the political side. Norman did the anti Asian hate crime bill,
(41:12):
the COVID nighting hate crimes. At is that enough from
President Biden to help stop the swell of what you've
seen happening in your community. No, I mean, I think
most people would agree it's it's the tip of the
iceberg or what needs to be done. But it's a
positive step in the right direction. So, you know, it
helps to create more reporting channels for people to report
(41:34):
the hate crimes. That's important. Um there, it sets aside
information money for education about racism towards Asian Americans. That's
all important. But it's like the drug war, like you've
got to started fight the war at the source, right,
what's causing these hate crimes and what's leading to the
stereotypes and the scapegoating and the violence. And so media
(41:55):
is very powerful, Hollywood, TV, movies, Um, the news is
very powerful, right in terms of how Asian American stories
are reported, and so there are groups activating to try
to get more coverage about Asian American stories. Education, as
we talked about, is extremely important to shape hearts and minds.
We were fortunate, in terms of politically to be invited
(42:18):
by Congressman Ted Lieu to present to the Congressional Asian
Pacific American Caucus and where we shared our data so
that the legislators and the political leaders can have more
information that they can use to fight their battles. And
so that's one way we're trying to link with the legislators,
you know, getting Asian American history taught in schools. That
(42:38):
requires legislation, right, and so it requires political activity, and
so that is a very important channel to get things
done as well. All Right, So, Norman, there's certain crimes
in this country that get more attention from the media
than others, crimes of a racial nature. How much does
the media player role? And I the example I want
(43:00):
use is the mass shootings of the Asian massage parlors
in Atlanta. You have a gentleman who goes from parlor
to parlor killing people. And I know that there was
an element of sexual addiction that was a part of that,
but that does not absolve race from also being a
piece of the motive for those crimes. But not only
does that not get turned into well did he kill
(43:22):
him because of sexual shame or did he kill him
because they were Asian? Or was it a little bit
of they just stopped talking about it altogether. So let
me amplify your point with a couple of additional data
points there. Um Roy. First of all, we did our
study in uh March April of this year, and one
of the regrets we had when we first did the
(43:43):
study was, gosh, I wish we had done the study
before the Atlanta killings, because then even more Americans would
be unaware. Right, we thought everyone would know about the
anti Asian American sentiment. Shockingly, again, of Americans, basically a
third of Americans say they're not ware of the increase
in hate crimes towards Asian Americans in the past year.
(44:03):
So I don't know where they're getting the information from.
But clearly, it's not share it's not representing the hate
crimes that are affecting women in Atlanta and other places.
That's one data point. The second data point is I
just was on at an event in the Bay Area
with Dion Limb, who's a local newscaster and really prominent
activists in the Asian American community, and she says now
(44:25):
that when she goes to her producers and has you know,
sometimes five or six anti Asian American hate crime stories
each day, they're saying, you know, we're not the public
is not interested in these stories anymore, So we need
to find something else to report on. So exactly to
your point, these stories are getting buried, and so how
do you solve these problems? And these are systemic problems
(44:45):
for sure. One era that a lot of people are
focusing on, I think makes sense is representation. How many
of their producers or senior people at these media companies
are Asian American and care about Asian American stories, right,
I think that is critical, and I think that's an
area where we have seen, you know, significant underrepresentation of
(45:06):
Asian Americans and leadership positions. One of the key statistics
from our study was that half of Americans think that
Asian Americans are actually well represented. They think, hey, model
minority or smart, hardworking, we must be successful, it must
be leaders. Well, actually, we're underrepresented in terms of leadership positions,
in terms of Supreme Court justices, of which there are
(45:26):
zero Asian Americans, in terms of the corporate world, in
terms of the political world, in terms of owning TV
stations and movies, movies stations, etcetera. We are severely underrepresented.
Yet people are under the illusion that Asian Americans are
well represented. So I think representation is a key part
of the puzzle. Uh. And only when you have leaders
who appreciate and understand Asian, the Asian American experience, and
(45:50):
the Black experience and the Hispanic experience do we have
real diversity and true you know, ACCRIC coverage of America
and so um, we're hoping that we'll see some changes
in that area in the next few years as well.
All Right, I'll leave you, gentlemen with this question, and
I'll let Norman go first, because I know Ronnie and
I are going to argue, how do we, Norman get
(46:16):
other minorities to understand that the Asian fight is also
our fight mhm, because and I was just and as
a black person, I'm just gonna be you know, very
blunt with what some of the sentiments and other communities
where it's okay, well, how do you get a anti
Asian hate crime beal before was we've been trying to
(46:36):
get it. How do we get other groups because everybody
is so insular you know, Ronnie's very right in that
regard in America where everybody's just tending to their own farm.
You know, I've got my problems to deal with the
latinos head. We were focused on our things and how
do we get other minorities to understand that if anybody
(46:59):
can through, it's good for everybody. Totally. Yeah, a lot
of the issues that we identify apply to other racial
groups and people of color, and so one of our
goals is much it's more outreach to other communities of color,
to reach out to the African American black community and
Hispanic Latino community. There is much more that we share
(47:20):
in common in terms of our experience, uh in a
white America that then that separates us, so outreach is critical. Um.
We also believe that working closely with these partners on
initiatives such as diversity in the media, such as fair representation,
are really critical. So, um, yeah, I think it's it's
(47:43):
a key part of the solution. And I say the
onus is not just on it's on both, on both
sides of the equation. Right. In our study, we found that, uh,
that certain communities have less inner action with Asian Americans
and so they don't know Asian American culture. That's why
they see them as others. So we need to build
more bridges between these communities who people can appreciate. The
(48:05):
Asian Americans who some people think are as cold and
unfriendly and not warm. Well, they've never been to my
house or Ronnie's house for a dinner party, right, They've
never had time to hang out with our grandparents and
our parents and and just really enjoy each other's company
and have great Asian food together. We need to share
that experience more, uh and let people know just you know,
how warm and dynamic our culture is. Uh, and also
(48:28):
again break down these barriers. So I think at the
micro level, interaction among different groups is really really critical.
That's how you just like you, I mean you didn't
maybe didn't meet the Asian American to eighth grade. But
then once you get to know Asian Americans, then you
start to have a more well rounded understanding of them
and hopefully developed good friendships. So, Ronnie, how do you
(48:50):
get me to care about your ship? I don't mean Asians,
I mean me as Roy caring about Ronnie's problems, just
your personal problems. Man, you get you invested into my life,
maybe give you some equity? Should have listen to your
That's a separate conversation. I mean we were pretty invest
(49:11):
in each other's lives already. I think I think the
community as a whole, you know. Uh, someone put it
to me really well once. Look, I don't have the solutions, man,
I tell jokes and boss for a living. I don't
know how to save the world. What I do know
is that, yeah, we we There's more good people than
bad people in America. And that goes for minority groups.
There's more good minority group people, goes without saying, obviously
(49:35):
than bad people. Um. And when we join together on
issues that we do agree on, it increases our voting strength.
It creates a more powerful voting block. Because Asian people
are what four percent no, was it four percent? Seven strong? Right?
And what's the African Americans are what thirteen cannon just
(49:59):
had four more? A Latino knows how what if you
join all together, there's a voting block there. You know,
there's a stronger voting block which which allows you if
we work together to get legislation pass it, it benefits
all of us, you know, and nothing against white people too.
We need white people to help out, and most white
people are on board. But when you're it's so hard
(50:21):
to explain sometimes, and that's why only minorities get that,
and that's why we should get along in America's because
sometimes it's not that anyone is blatantly being evil, it's
just that the system isself in a way that you
can't even begin to explain the issues you're having. How
many times have you gone into a room and been like, now,
these people are even gonna get what I'm saying. I'm
(50:41):
I'm talking about my you know, Asian grandma on the streets,
who don't you know, they don't understand what you know,
They're not gonna get it. Whereas if you talk to
Latino people, black people don't understand it more. And so
if we can get more like minded people in decision making, positions.
You know, that's where kind of we can stop moving
the needle with change, and that's why we should be
joining together as a voting block. You know, that's my
(51:04):
argument to you, Roy. I mean, you can also play
it back on me as you always do, and you
know we can. America will continue on. You know what
I view I view America as a d m V
and everybody's in there for their own issue. But the
moment one person starts complaining, you need three other people
to start complaining and then that line of justice will
(51:27):
move a little bit faster. Norman Chin from Launch, thank
you so much leading Asian American Unite for Change. Visit
them online. Launch dot org. That's launched like Space Shuttle
with two a's launch Because I know I have a
Southern drawl, and you think I said lunch and I
didn't say launch. I said launch like a rocket to
(51:47):
as dot org. Norman, thank you so much for coming
beyond the scenes with me. Thank you so much, Roy,
Thank you, Ronny and Ronnie. I'll I'll see you whenever
the whenever the funk. We're back in the office. Clean
up your side please, Okay, all right, that's it. Take
care of everybody listen to The Daily Show Beyond the
(52:11):
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