June 4, 2025 • 41 mins
Dan and the Danettes dive deep on the firing of Knicks HC Tom Thibodeau and consider why he lost his job, who they might hire to replace him and what the expectations will be for the guy who takes over. And Dan weighs in on the case for Barry Melrose to get into the Hockey Hall of Fame.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Well, well, well that was a surprise yesterday afternoon. We'll
dive into the firing of Tom Thibodeau and the replacements
for him. Eight seven seven to three. DP Show email
address Dpadanpatrick dot Com, Twitter handle at dpshow Robert or
Big Shot Bob a little bit later on, and your
phone calls are always welcome. Operator Tyler is sitting by.
(00:27):
He'll take your phone calls. Play the day poll question
stat of the Day. Good morning, those watching on Peacock,
our streaming partner, or listening on our great radio affiliates
around the country, including Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio as well.
NBA Final start tomorrow, Pacers at the thunder Pacers getting nine.
The Stanley Cup Final starts tonight with the Oilers a
(00:49):
slight favorite in this series against the Panthers in a rematch.
And it's time to celebrate. It's time to break up
the Colorado Rockies. They won their first series of the year.
How about a round of applause for your Colorado Rockies,
our Colorado Rockies. Bunny his seeds still available. With that
(01:10):
game against Miami the Marlins. Wow, it was like a
rumor that there was a baseball game, and that's where
you could probably be talking to somebody and a player
could say, hey, because it said paid attendance around five thousand,
there's no way that looked like there was about maybe
(01:31):
six or seven hundred people there. That's that's where your
conversation would echo in the ballpark, all right, eight seven
to seven three DP show email address dpat Danpatrick dot com,
Twitter handle a DP show The New York Knicks, and
we wondered if you were going to label what kind
of season they had? Did they have a successful season?
(01:53):
Can you have a successful season and fire your coach?
That would be my question because I would think think
a lot of Knicks fans would say we had a
successful season. I mean, you had a chance to go
to the NBA Finals, but you fired your coach. Successful. Now,
we might look at this and say Tom Thibodeau took
(02:13):
them as far as he could take them, and they
need to bring in somebody, somebody who has experienced, somebody
who's won a title before. Perhaps, Now, if you go
back to when Michael Malone was fired by Denver, and
I said on the show after he was fired, Tom
Thibodeau has to get to the Eastern Conference Finals. It
(02:35):
feels like if not, then Michael Malone will be the
next head coach of the Knicks. He's got a title
in Denver, he got fired at the end of the season.
His father was a Nick's assistant coach. He knows the
landscape there. And you know, Thibodeau was doing a great job.
(02:55):
Now that I think he was going to get fired,
I didn't, and he did get to the Eastern Conference Finals,
but all of a sudden, out of nowhere, you're going
to fire him. Now, we might look at this in
three years and say, you know what, that's a tough decision,
but they made the right decision. There's still there's a surprise.
Maybe there's the element of shock, but I'm not surprised
(03:19):
because nothing surprises me anymore. It feels like in sports
it's like okay, and this was one of those where
I went Wow, okay, And I don't know if Michael
Malone is going to be the number one candidate. I'm
looking at the odds right now and it's got Michael
Malone as your favorite, a big favorite, and then it's
(03:40):
Johnny Bryant. I believe he's an assistant coach with Cleveland,
Jay Wright who retired from college, baunsketball, and he's been
in broadcasting. Mike Budenholzer, who's always available. Rick Brunson, Okay
have father son combination there, Monty Williams, Taylor Jenkins, John Caliperi,
(04:07):
Danny Hurley, Jeff Van Gundy. Those are just some of
the names. Now the odds are long with a lot
of those. It feels like Michael Malone is your He's
the number one candidate by far. I don't think you
fire somebody without knowing who you're going to hire. I've
always felt that do I think the Knicks would make
(04:28):
this kind of decision? And I thought maybe that Tom Thibodeau.
You know, everybody was pointing their fingers at Karl Anthony Towns.
He was getting the blame they weren't going to, you know,
I guess focus in on Tom Thibodeau. It seemed like, Okay,
survive this, You're not firing Karl Anthony Towns. And then
(04:48):
all of a sudden, it's like boom. Now people get
caught up in who pulled the trigger? Does that matter?
Leon Rose is basically he's run the team. He's your
president of basketball operations or whatever. I'd call it a GM,
but he's a former agent and Tom Thibodeau was his,
(05:11):
you know, one of his clients. They just signed Tom
Thibodeaux to an extension. I got thirty million dollar extension
last July. Okay, are you going to make these moves?
You trade away Randall and de Vincenzo, you get Karl
Anthony Towns. Okay, you got Michale Bridges, like, okay, here's
our lineup, and then you get to the Eastern Conference
(05:32):
finals and you'd say, all right, you know that's pretty good. Now,
Karl Anthony Towns didn't play defense. People are surprised you
got a head coach who's a defensive minded guy, Jalen Bruns.
He's not a good defensive player. It feels like they
might have overachieved a little bit here. But I don't
know if ownership said, you know, the Celtics weren't there,
(05:53):
Cavaliers weren't there. We should have beaten the Pacers, we
had home court advantage. We should be playing in the
NBA finals. You know, we don't have depth here. We
use our starters too much. And then all of a sudden,
Thibodeau started using his bench a little bit more in
the series, and I don't know what the tipping point was.
(06:13):
I don't know if that's one of those irrational moments
where the owner goes fire him. Wait, we just gave
him a thirty million dollar extension. I don't care fire
And then your agent, who's now your boss, is the
one who's firing you. But then he helped sign you
to a thirty million dollar and you're on the hook
to pay Tom Thibodeau all of that money. I mean,
(06:39):
you feel like you've graduated from the old way of
doing business with the New York Knicks, Like, okay, now
they're respectable. You know, it's a good, good team. You
got a respected coach, front office owner seems to be
out of the way. You know, former Knicks are now
allowed back in the building. You know, Okay, we're moving
(07:00):
forward here. And then all of a sudden, it's like
put on the brakes. I'll take you back to after
the lost Game six. Jalen Brunson was asked this question.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Gentlem, when you talk about the confidence, obviously, I feel
like nobody takes more criticism than Tom and this team
obviously has turned around during his tenure. Do you kind
of feel that going forward he's the same guy? Lift
you guys the rest of the way that next level?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Is that a real question right now?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
He just asked me if I believe that, if he's
the right guy, Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Thanks guys for fun. And you know, I agree with
what Brunson was saying. Whether you feel otherwise? What are
you going to say? In that moment? Now, I would
have said, why do you think he is still the
right guy? I want? I went Brunson to tick off
things that Thibodeau does. If I'm a reporter, I would say,
(07:57):
why do you think he is still the guy to
lead the Knicks? And then you could get Brunson to
tell us what he sees with his head coach. But
once again, we might look back on two years, three
years and go I have a smart decision. I mean,
I'll go back to when Doug Collins got fired in Chicago,
(08:19):
extremely popular. They brought in an unknown as far as coaching,
Phil Jackson, who had coached in the CBA, and then
people were like Phil Jackson, and then Phil Jackson came
in and the rest is history. We've seen where you know,
teams make a drastic move. Go back to Alex Smith
(08:40):
when he was the quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs,
and all of a sudden, You're going to go up
in the draft to get Patrick Mahomes, and we went,
why do you need Patrick Mahomes? Alex smithon they realized
they can only get to a certain level. And now
you look at that move as one of the great
draft picks in the history the NFL, a draft pick
(09:02):
that changed the NFL. But you had to make, you know,
a gut move. And they've had bad coaching hires in
New York, They've had bad rosters. I mean, the one
constant has been the ownership there. But it feels like
they move past that finally and then this this one
feels like a oh boy, is this the same old
(09:25):
Knicks here? Yeah, Marvin.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Another one from a coaching standpoint, when the Buccaneers got
rid of Tony Dungee and got John Gruden. They were
on the cuss so many times going to conference championship
games and they needed somebody to take them over the hump.
Speaker 6 (09:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean, sometimes you make these moves and they work
out and then we applaud you, and then other times
you make a move, and I mean, look at the
forty nine ers with Trey Lance, like, hey, this is
our quarterback. We're all in on this guy. We're going
up to get him. This guy's going to be the difference.
We're gonna win us super Bowl. We're going back to
the super Bowl. And then all of a sudden, it's
(10:03):
like Trey Lance can't play. And then you get Rock
Purdy and that saved jobs there. But you made a
decision and it could have cost to your job and
then you end up drafting Rock Purdy with the last pick.
It's strange how these things work out. This guy was replaced.
This guy, you know, took us to a championship. This
(10:24):
guy can only get us so far, whether it's a
player or a coach. But with Tom Thibodeau, I mean
we've seen him in Chicago, We've seen him in Minnesota,
we saw him in New York. He's a respected coach
and maybe this is, you know, given his system, given
the players he has, this is as far as he's
going to go. I would say, though, whoever coaches the Knicks,
(10:46):
I'd get a little more depth and I would get
somebody who might be able to make up for Carl
Anthony Towns lack of defense. I can't blame Tom Thibodeau
for Karl Anthony Towns not being able to play defense.
When teams are singling you out, they're just running picking rolls.
I mean, there's nothing you can do. Karl Anthony Towns
(11:08):
had one block shot in an entire series. He's seven
feet tall, he had one block shot. Yeah, seen, is
that block shot thing more just about effort? Well, it
could be position, but I would say, can't you accident?
I mean, I got Brunson who has more block shots.
(11:30):
I would say effort, positioning, maybe wanting to be in
a situation where you want to block a shot, but
that is kind of surprising. Yeah, PAULI do you.
Speaker 7 (11:40):
Guys find yourselves torn with this one because the NIXT
history suggests most of their moves don't work out while
also respecting the ownership for trying something and eating thirty
million dollars to try to get that one title. It's
very hard where to.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Go on this one. Okay. I like Tom Thibodeaux. I
don't think he is an elite coach. I think he's
a very good coach. But I mean I've seen what's
happened in Boston. I don't think they have an elite coach,
(12:18):
but they end up winning, or they've won a championship,
it gets weird. Michael Malone is a very good coach.
He got fired by Denver. There are times when you go,
George carl I think got fired after being he was
coach of the year. He got fired after winning Coach
of the Year.
Speaker 8 (12:35):
Yes, Seden, Yeah, I feel like the one thing you
can't criticize the Knicks for is not trying. Over the
last twenty five years, they've tried. They've thrown everything against
the wall to see if it would stick.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Everything.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
This is to me, that's actually the problem is that
they don't stick to anything.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, whoever comes in, how high is that bar? How
long do you get in that job if you don't
win a championship or at least get to the NBA Championship.
Right because Thibodeau got you to the Eastern Conference finals,
that next coach who comes in we expect this and
(13:16):
can't be there's this grace period where you go, you know,
we got a two year plant. No, I would expect
you to get to the NBA Final, at least to
the Eastern Conference finals, and we don't know. If I
look at the East right now, Indiana is still going
to be Indiana next year. I don't know what you're
going to have with the Bucks with Giannis or Philadelphia
(13:37):
with the seventy six ers Jason Tatum in Boston. I
still think Orlando is a quality team. Cleveland is going
to have their core four unless they make a move.
I mean the East is open ish to Okay, we
got two teams we got to worry about. We got
to worry about the Pacers, and we have to worry
about the Calves because I think the Celtic are gonna
(14:00):
look a little different and you're probably not gonna have
Jason Tatum for most of the year. This is the
window of opportunity if you're gonna try to get back
and at least compete for a title. Okay, but you
got two years. It feels like before the vultures start
to circle here. Yes, Marvin, and.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
I think Tims got fired because of two things. One,
the Game one loss when they were up by fourteen
with less than three minutes left, and you let that
game slip from your fingers at home during the Game one.
And this was their year. Everyone was out. All you
had to do was beat the Pacers. And it's a
team that you thought you could beat. You already beat
the Celtics, Cleveland was out, Milwaukee's not in. All you
(14:42):
got to do is beat the Pacers, who you guys
match up well with. You guys were confident against. You
guys lose that. So I'm sure that had to be
the breaking point for the ownership.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, but part of the problem is people didn't watch
the Pacers and we looked at the Pacers and we
got the Pacers, and then you watch the Pacers and
you go, oh wow, they're pretty good, and you know,
and I blame that on networks not really covering the
other teams. I mean, even Scott Van Pelt said on
his podcast, and you know, I'm paraphrasing kind of like,
(15:12):
I'm embarrassed. I didn't realize how good the Pacers are
because we get fed the same teams over and over
and over and nobody cared. People are going to come
away from this with OKC and go boy. They're really good.
They've been really good all year long. And I think
the perception was you got to get past the Pacers.
They're not any good. They play in Indiana, Like, wait
(15:32):
a minute, watch them play and tell me what your
opinion is. Yes see, I think that's crazy. You weren't
supposed to get past the Celtics. You weren't supposed to
get that far at all, and now that you did,
it's still not good enough. You're supposed to get past.
Speaker 8 (15:45):
The team you met there. You weren't supposed to be
there anyway. And it's not like this season you loaded
up and it's like we're all in this one year.
This is the year we got to do it. Nobody
thought that heading into the season, Like you know, I
could see the Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals that
nobody saw that.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well, the Cabs were injured, the Celtics were injured, and
the door was wide open, right, But you're right. I
think getting this far made it harder to fire Tibodeau
because if things would have played out like we thought,
he wouldn't have gotten this far. And it's almost like, damn,
he got to the Eastern Conference Finals. Yeah, he's still
not the right guy for us. So I think it
(16:23):
might have made it tougher. I think that they thought
about this for a while. I don't think this is
one of those where ownership or management went firing. Wait,
let's think about this. No firing.
Speaker 8 (16:35):
Yes, and that's when they were like, no, you know
what we'll do. This is how we get rid of them.
Let's trade for Karl Anthony Towns. He's already gotten fired once.
That'll be how we get TIBs out again. We'll get
Karl Anthony for the Towns. We'll have them fired twice. Yeah,
and then we're free. Do you think that TIBs wanted
Karl Anthony Towns?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yes? Yes, okay. Stat of the Day brought to you
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(17:17):
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pull question phone calls as well. Back after this.
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Speaker 4 (17:33):
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(17:55):
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(18:16):
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Speaker 2 (18:30):
I want to give a shout out to a former
teammate at the Mothership, John Buchigras, who covers NHL, and
John brought up something that is very important. I've been
a big proponent of Barry Melrose being put into the
Hockey Hall of Fame. And John went a step further
on Monday, he said, why do Hall of Fames wait
until people die? Why do they adhere to arbitrary categorical
(18:55):
rules that really mean nothing and can be changed with
fewer than twelve words. And he said, Hall of Fame's
museums simply tell a story, and you have ceremonies giving
somebody a chance to feel the love. And I agree.
Now he said Don Cherry, Now I didn't realize Don
Cherry was not in the Hockey Hall of Fame. But
(19:16):
Barry mel Rose absolutely, And I agree with John that.
I mean, look at Pete Rose. Pete Rose might get
into the Hall of Fame, but it's going to be posthumously.
But I hope that Barry Melrose will get that opportunity
to be in the Hall of Fame. And Don Cherry
for that. You know, when you talk about contributions to
(19:37):
the game, Don Cherry absolutely he was the face of
hockey for a long time, certainly in Canada Hockey Night. Yeah, Pauline, Yeah,
while you brought that up.
Speaker 7 (19:49):
Just the other day, the College Football Hall of Fame
changed their criteria of coaches winning percentage. They used to
have a winning percentage to be eligible for the Hall
of Fame. They dropped it a little bit. And now
how a guy like Mike Leach from Texas Tech and
other places is eligible. And a lot of people think
they did this because of Mike Leach, because he's such
an innovator of the game.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah. John Butchergrouz goes on to say that time is
limited for both Don Cherry and Barry Melrose. Don Cherry
is ninety one and Barry has Parkinson's. Then he goes
on to say, how easy is this? What are we doing?
And I agree? I agree. If we agree their Hall
of famers, then let's speed up the process to put
(20:31):
them in the whole of fame. All right? Eight seven
to seven three DP show email address DP at Danpatrick
dot com, Twitter handle it DP show uh Seaton. Poll
question for the first hour is going to be what
PAULI sent this one over? The Knicks are gutsy or
nuts gutsy or nuts. Gutsy or nuts or nutsy? That's right,
(20:51):
NUTSI you can only pick one. Todd Are they gutsy
or nutsy? Gutsy? All right? Seton? Is there a gutsy
to a point of insanity? I'll say, I'll say nuts,
then okay, Nutsyeh, Marvin Nuts, Paul gutsy, no doubt, I'm
gonna say gutsy. I'm gonna say gutsy. Leon Rose has
(21:15):
done a good job. He changed this, I think, the
whole perception, the face of this franchise. And he's made
some really good moves here. I'm gonna have to trust
him that you're part of a decision to fire your
former client. Although he did take care of him. He
(21:35):
gave him that golden parachute of hey, let's let's extend
Tibbs and then, just in case he gets fired, got
a golden parachute of thirty million dollars. PAULI has a
game that it's a it's a player comp game for
Tom Thibodeaux.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
Yes, it's the situation the Knicks and Thibodeaux found themselves in.
And there's a player who was in this situation just
a few months ago.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Okay, so the Alex Smith player come, Yes that he
got replaced by Patrick mahonk exactly, but you'd have to
bring in Phil Jackson, right if that was the case.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
Okay, this is a newer one. This is an NFL
player who kind of out of nowhere raised a team's
expectations and solved a lot of problems. The Knicks, their
problems were solved by Thibodeau. They were competitive again. This
player last year came out of nowhere to solve a
team's problems and establish himself as the answer to a situation.
(22:36):
And then at the end of the season, this player
limped to the finish and they decided to move on
from him. Also unexpectedly, Sam Donald Sam Darnold is correct.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I think this is a way for you to bring
back your love for Sam Darnold to the show. I
think that's what's going on.
Speaker 7 (22:55):
But my love for this Donald situation actually turned out
not wrong, but not to go to the Vikings.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
But they had already drafted JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 7 (23:05):
I'll tell you though, when he was throwing five touchdown
passes in late November or early September, everyone thought you
got to keep.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Him, You got to keep him, you got to go.
But if he was doing that and then in this
year's draft they took JJ McCarthy, then you would have,
you know, a situation where you go, Babe, Sam Darnold
was a Pro Bowl quarterback and you just drafted this guy.
It's apples an orange, but it is.
Speaker 7 (23:29):
It's interesting that a guy who seemed to be locked
they moved on from after a late stumble.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Uh, Chris and Syracuse, Hi, Chris, didn't have you back?
Speaker 6 (23:38):
Hey, thanks as always, Damn Hey. I loved Don Cherryhead
that show with his dog Blue. That was always pretty
good too. And on the poll, I'm going to go
gutsy in a couple comments on my favorite teams. First
Tips getting fired. I think it was I feel bad
and I wish he hadn't. I think it was a
complete knee jerk reaction, probably by Rose. And I think
(23:59):
there's one basic reason he played campaign right Landrew Shama.
During the season. Those guys came in for thirty forty
five seconds at the end of quarters to give people blows.
I mean, they're not defensive stoppers, and he played them
(24:19):
significant minutes. He left Brunston on the bench a lot
of times where he didn't have any foul up trouble
and Dan, during the season, they never were defensive stoppers.
They played and I'm certainly am not talking about Robinson McBride.
We needed Robinson out there, but during the season they
never were out there for any significant amount of time.
Detroit series had a couple pretty good offensive players. They
(24:41):
didn't play them. Boston had we've been Boston healthy for
a lot of that series, he didn't play them. Brunston
and Cant were fine out there. I think to what
Marvin said, I think he could taste it. Rose could
taste the team I put together. We're ready and Boston's
out of the way, Cleveland's out of the way. And
I bet you during this series he's talking to Tibbs,
(25:02):
what are you doing? And Tibbs just kept going And
it probably didn't help him that Detroit, which is a
tough call. He had heart and Brunton he was trying
to get in at the scorer's table and they sat
there forever, and he didn't want to use the last timeouts,
didn't have a foul to gives so And to your point, Dan,
Michael Malone being out there made the choice a little
(25:23):
easier too, and him Jay Right or Monte Williams would
be great. And I just wanted to mention the great
Jim Marshall passed away and he was boy. He was
the quintessential Viking and arguably the greatest biking of all time.
And I know Bud Grant would co sign on that.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
All right, Thank you, Chris, Chris and Syracuse becoming a
regular once again. Jim Marshall is not the Hall of Fame.
I think he started two hundred and seventy consecutive games
as a defensive lineman. He had I think a thirty sacks.
But he's known for one thing. He picked up a
fumble and ran the wrong way the game against the
(26:00):
forty nine ers, and I think they won that game,
but he's known for that he ran the wrong way,
and that's a shame because he was part of the
Purple People leads one of the great nicknames of all time.
That's back when your front four had a nickname or
your defense Doomsday Defense, the Steel Curtain. You know that
(26:22):
that was fun. But Jim Marshall not in the Hall
of Fame. Allan Page is a Hall of Famer from
that front four. But I was surprised that Jim wasn't in.
I think he was. He was one of the finalist
at one year but didn't make it. And he did
so many great community things, charitable things, and I know
(26:46):
that doesn't matter. It did to me, but you know
he just imagine playing that long. You played two hundred
and seventy games, and you're known. He retired at age
forty two, and you're known for one thing he ran
the wrong way. I think he is still the all
time leader in fumble recoveries. I think twenty nine or thirty,
(27:10):
but it was that one fumble that he's known for
over everything else. All right, Uh Buddha in San Francisco, Hi, Buddha,
what's on your mind?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
What up?
Speaker 9 (27:22):
DP?
Speaker 10 (27:23):
Happy hump day boys, Let's go, Fritzie, let's go. And
why you spying this baby? I was going about my
day yesterday and then the Tiars firing came down and
I was it was just shocking, and that's what spawned
this phone call. I mean, listening to all the reactions
to the next last couple days and just that happening yesterday,
(27:44):
I had to call in with a five minute Paul question.
Are the Nicks the Dallas Cowboys of the NBA. I mean,
hear me out both of polarizing always in the news.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know, they both have been they've been.
Speaker 10 (27:58):
Absent of a championship quarters. They do silly things regarding
their team's decisions. I mean, the Cowboys as get bails,
the Knick taps screaming Nate Smith. There's a lot of
similarities there.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
In in my opinion.
Speaker 10 (28:09):
And you think about Tier one pressure. Whoever replaces TIBs
is gonna be in the pressure cooker and his hands
are going to be full.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
This whole situation is.
Speaker 6 (28:19):
Just not good.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Thank you, Buda. I don't think this owner in New
York does things to get clicks to have his team
talked about. I think Jerry Jones does that in Dallas absolutely.
I mean he's going to drag out the Micaeh Parsons
contract situation. He dragged out the Dak Prescott contract situation.
(28:42):
I think this owner in New York has just been
inept at times and who he was hiring or who
he's listening to. And they haven't had those marquee players.
I mean, Dallas still has some guys you tune in
to watch. I mean, and I think you gotta be
fair to TIBs that Jalen Brunson wasn't a star. They
(29:03):
tried to get Donovan Mitchell, they missed on him, and
they brought in Jalen Brunson. The reaction wasn't overwhelming that,
oh my gosh, we have a left handed version of
Clyde Fraser. I mean, Josh hart was a good player
in college, became a real good contributor. Dante DiVincenzo when
(29:26):
he played, became a contributor. I think that Tibbs deserves
some credit for helping to develop these players, and they
were building a roster to compete against Boston O, g Nnobi,
Mikhale Bridges. I wouldn't have brought in Karl Anthony Towns.
I would rather have had Julius Randall and Dante DiVincenzo
because then I have some depth. I have somebody coming
(29:48):
off the bench. You know, Julius Randall will score, k
can move the ball a little bit, good passer, you know.
Losing Hartenstein to Okay See, I thought was a big
deal because he's one of those energy guys, rim protectors.
I don't know, but Timms should get some credit here,
(30:09):
and maybe he won't, but maybe they just felt this
was the golden opportunity. We had home court advantage against
the Pacers. We blew a big lead fourth quarter, and
Haliburton hits that shot and that changed the whole complexion
of this series. Would they have fired him if he
got to the NBA Finals and they lost? If they
(30:32):
got gentlemen sweep, they lose in five? Does he get
fun like? I don't know. Was this a foegone conclusion
decision that was made maybe weeks ago. I just don't
know if it was so spur of the moment. Because
Michael Malone has been available, He's in the on deck
(30:53):
circle for somebody this offseason, and all it takes is
one phone call. That's it. Hey, don't do anything. Let's
see what happens.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
You and me.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Let's just keep it between us and if it doesn't
go the way the owner wants this to go, I
want I want you to know I'm gonna call you.
I mean, is that my interpretation? Yes, yes, Martin, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
I keep going back to if the Knicks lost to
the Cavaliers or to the Celtics, a fully loaded Celtics
teams healthy. All right, man, great season, But I think
it's still the Pacers. Man, we just beat the Celtics
and the Cavaliers are out the two teams that we thought.
You know what, they're probably better than us.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
I just keep may are better than you. Yes, yes,
we inflate the Knicks because oh my god, they're the Knicks.
They're they're good, and I mean Cleveland was good all
year long and then they had injuries. Boston was a
better team. They had the injury to Jason Tatum. Oh
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
Yeah, if you lose to a team that everyone thinks
and even you know that's better than you are, let's
play them hard, valiant effort. But if you lose to
the Pacers, this isn't any good.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I just think that's perception and reality with the Pacers.
The perception is they're the Pacers, correct, The reality is
they're the Pacers. There's a big difference. They're a good team.
They got depth, they got guys who aren't afraid. Now,
do I think Okac's gonna win? Yes, I do. I
think they're a better team. But I think that if
(32:29):
I'm ownership, and I'm going wait a minute, we didn't
have to worry about Cleveland, didn't have to worry about
Boston Milwaukee. We should be in the We should be
playing for the championship here. Yes, marm you and I
we knew the Pacers were good.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
But if we said a in February, the Pacers are
going to make the NBA Finals, or somebody said pie
to the face, the Pacers have a real chance to
make the NBA Finals, I would have taken that against them.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
They went to the Eastern Conference finals last year.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
But so did the Hawks with Trey Young.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Well, no, that was year ago. But I'm saying I
didn't buy into a sixty win Hawks team.
Speaker 5 (33:04):
Oh I didn't either with last year's Pacers team. I
was like, you know what great year?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
No, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8 (33:10):
But even by saying you know, Cavaliers are hurt, Celtics
are hurt, this is our window to sneak through. Really,
what you're saying is we're not supposed to go this far,
but we got a shot right now because we just
got lucky. Yes, that's saying your team's not very good. Yeah,
why in the world did you fire your coach when
you know your team's not very good and he's somehow
(33:30):
still getting you this far? Like it doesn't make sense
to me. It's like conflicting logic. We know the team's
not very good, but man, did we get lucky right here?
Well didn't take advantage of it? Better fire them? I
don't I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I agree, I agree perception reality. We should be in
the NBA Finals only because these other teams were banged up,
Like you shouldn't be in the NBA Finals. We almost
could have been Dang, that would have been sweet. Yeah,
all right, more phone calls coming up. We'll take a
break back after this.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio wapp.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Oh my god, the play of the day lighter WEBSI
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Speaker 1 (34:21):
Leaps and he caught it.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Oh, I don't believe it. A game saving Cats by TJ.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Friedel four to two over the Brewers.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
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Tom Thibodeau, Uh, he had consecutive fifty win seasons, so
that's the first time that's happened since nineteen ninety five
with the Knicks, and his wins are fourth among Nick's coaches,
(35:15):
trailing Jeff Van Gundy. He is one ahead or a
couple ahead of pat Riley as well. But on the
outside looking in, as they how long do you wait?
How long is the grace period before you name your
head coach? Do you do it right away to make
it seem like, hey, we know what we're doing, or
(35:35):
do you drag it out a little bit, get a
little more attention here? Who are they gonna who are
they gonna pick? Is Danny Hurley gonna leave Connecticut? Would
Jay Wright want a coach in the NBA? What about
Rick Patino? He'll take a new challenge every year. Yes,
ton I think you.
Speaker 11 (35:50):
Don't want to make a two obviously, you had your guy,
if it'll past number of days or weeks. Even if
you did, we've got to just, out of respect to
the coach, wait a few days, so it looks like
you're painstake, you know, doing some interviewing and trying to
figure out what direction you're going to go in. It's
supposed we had our guy first round of the playoffs lineup.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Okay, But I remember during the NBA Finals back in
the nineties that Commissioner Stern would always tell teams, do
not be announcing, you know, coaching changes. Don't take away
from the NBA Finals. I don't know if the Knicks
are under that advisement, but I'd be curious about that.
(36:28):
You don't want to you don't want to take away
attention from the NBA Finals. Yes see see, I think
that's bs.
Speaker 8 (36:34):
If you had your guy already, why don't you fire
him before the Pacers series so we could have advanced, Yes, Tod,
So if.
Speaker 11 (36:43):
Kerr or Carlisle a supposter or pick one of the
top we consider the top current NBA coaches, if they
were coaching the Knicks, they make it to the finals,
they win the finals.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
What are we saying about that?
Speaker 11 (36:52):
There's someone better currently coaching another team if they can
get on.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, clearly that's what the Knicks are saying that if
we had a better coach, we would have a better result,
or you wouldn't have made this decision. But do I
think Steve Kerr would have guided them to the NBA
Finals or a championship or Eric Spolstra. I mean, we'll
never know. You play the hypothetical game, but I would
say no, I don't think they're better, no matter who's
(37:18):
coaching them than Oka. See, and I didn't think they
were better than the Pacers. And Seton brings up a
great point. If you're looking at this saying we missed
our opportunity, yes, see, that's breaking new. Seton had a
great point. Well, like my dog when you say peanut butter.
(37:40):
But if you're looking at this and you're kind of
handicapping your season saying, well, but Boston lost Tatum and
the Cavs were banged up, this was our opportunity, knowing
full well, you're not better than Boston, you're not better
than Cleveland, you weren't better than Indiana, And I think
that's fools gold to go. You know what, if we
had a new coach in here. If we have this
same roster, you're not getting to the NBA finals. In
(38:04):
my opinion, if it's Michael Malone, if it's Phil Jackson,
you're not getting I don't think you're you're ready. I
think you need depth. What did I say about Denver
when they won the title? They won the title because
they had depth. Yes, you do have stars, Yes you
have the best player in the game. You have to
have players who contribute. It's a half court game. When
(38:26):
you get to the postseason, you must play offense and defense.
You know, you watch a regular season game, it's up
and down, willy nilly.
Speaker 10 (38:36):
So what you know?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
We got Cleveland today and then we got you know, Sacramento,
and you're just playing and then all of a sudden,
every possession matters, every game matters, and it's it just it.
It heightens the awareness of defense in the NBA. It does.
And Oka see has the best defense in the NBA.
(38:59):
Now Indiana has great offense. I love that you have
contrasting styles here. That'll be fun to watch. Let me
see what else do we have. Brian in South Carolina?
Speaker 9 (39:09):
Hi, Brian, Hey, did how you doing?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Good?
Speaker 6 (39:12):
Good? Good?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
What's on your mind.
Speaker 9 (39:15):
Two points about the firing for Tibbs. One, we don't
know if they have a bench. We don't know how
good their bench is because he doesn't play them. He
lived by the sword, died by the sort. He went
with a six to seven man rotation when Chuck Shack
and everybody else at the Mothership are saying we have
to go to an eight or nine men rotation. He
didn't make that adjustment until he was forced to make
(39:35):
that adjustment in game three. Yeap, so, so I mean
that's the first big piece and the second biggest pieces.
Teams in the knixt position in game one were nine
hundred and ninety four and oh before that game. There
has to be some type of consequence or you know,
a thought that, hey, maybe another coach will put us
in a better position when we just had an historic
(39:57):
loss that has shifted the series, and then we respond
by dr the game too at home. There has to
be some consequences, and I think that a Mike Malone
or even a Jay Wright may bring a better look.
And then even Mike Malone, I'm thinking we'll play more
guys off the bench than Tipps did this season, and
that combined with the losses in Game Game Morning game two.
Just sit him in.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, but I got to make sure the guys I'm
playing in Thanks for the phone call, Brian, bring up
some really valid points. I'm not going to just play guys.
I got to play guys who are good. You have
to have good guys who are coming off the bench,
who fit what you're trying to do. And you know
they might need kind of an enforcer there. You know,
somebody a tough guy. Jalen Brunson isn't getting taller and
(40:42):
he's not getting better on defense, and Karl Anthony Towns
isn't getting any better on defense. Now what do you do? Well?
Can you bring in players or a player who can
help fill in the gray area there? I mean, that's
the challenge here, or or Anthony Townsend Jalen Brunson better
be really, really really good at their job to make
(41:06):
up for the lack of defense. Like Steph Curry doesn't
you know, he can't play defense and Luca can't. But boy,
they make you pay because at the end of the day,
they may get forty and then the guy who's guarding
them gets you know, eighteen. You know that's advantage Steph
and Luca. But you know if you're going to live
by that and you might die by that, Yes, Bully,
(41:27):
and not having a bench.
Speaker 7 (41:28):
That's on the GM and ownership because Jalen Brunson took
that team friendly contract. It's team friendly now and next year.
It won't be in a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Coming up, we'll have more on this. Vincent Goodwill our
good buddy from Yahoo's Sports. I think he sat down
with Shaquille O'Neal talking about the NBA Finals. Also big
Shot Bob Robert or Orio. He will join us as well.
More of your phone calls. One hour in the Books
on this Wednesday. Two to go back after this on
the Dan Patrick Show
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Well, well, well that was a surprise yesterday afternoon. We'll
dive into the firing of Tom Thibodeau and the replacements
for him. Eight seven seven to three. DP Show email
address Dpadanpatrick dot Com, Twitter handle at dpshow Robert or
Big Shot Bob a little bit later on, and your
phone calls are always welcome. Operator Tyler is sitting by.
(00:27):
He'll take your phone calls. Play the day poll question
stat of the Day. Good morning, those watching on Peacock,
our streaming partner, or listening on our great radio affiliates
around the country, including Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio as well.
NBA Final start tomorrow, Pacers at the thunder Pacers getting nine.
The Stanley Cup Final starts tonight with the Oilers a
(00:49):
slight favorite in this series against the Panthers in a rematch.
And it's time to celebrate. It's time to break up
the Colorado Rockies. They won their first series of the year.
How about a round of applause for your Colorado Rockies,
our Colorado Rockies. Bunny his seeds still available. With that
(01:10):
game against Miami the Marlins. Wow, it was like a
rumor that there was a baseball game, and that's where
you could probably be talking to somebody and a player
could say, hey, because it said paid attendance around five thousand,
there's no way that looked like there was about maybe
(01:31):
six or seven hundred people there. That's that's where your
conversation would echo in the ballpark, all right, eight seven
to seven three DP show email address dpat Danpatrick dot com,
Twitter handle a DP show The New York Knicks, and
we wondered if you were going to label what kind
of season they had? Did they have a successful season?
(01:53):
Can you have a successful season and fire your coach?
That would be my question because I would think think
a lot of Knicks fans would say we had a
successful season. I mean, you had a chance to go
to the NBA Finals, but you fired your coach. Successful. Now,
we might look at this and say Tom Thibodeau took
(02:13):
them as far as he could take them, and they
need to bring in somebody, somebody who has experienced, somebody
who's won a title before. Perhaps, Now, if you go
back to when Michael Malone was fired by Denver, and
I said on the show after he was fired, Tom
Thibodeau has to get to the Eastern Conference Finals. It
(02:35):
feels like if not, then Michael Malone will be the
next head coach of the Knicks. He's got a title
in Denver, he got fired at the end of the season.
His father was a Nick's assistant coach. He knows the
landscape there. And you know, Thibodeau was doing a great job.
(02:55):
Now that I think he was going to get fired,
I didn't, and he did get to the Eastern Conference Finals,
but all of a sudden, out of nowhere, you're going
to fire him. Now, we might look at this in
three years and say, you know what, that's a tough decision,
but they made the right decision. There's still there's a surprise.
Maybe there's the element of shock, but I'm not surprised
(03:19):
because nothing surprises me anymore. It feels like in sports
it's like okay, and this was one of those where
I went Wow, okay, And I don't know if Michael
Malone is going to be the number one candidate. I'm
looking at the odds right now and it's got Michael
Malone as your favorite, a big favorite, and then it's
(03:40):
Johnny Bryant. I believe he's an assistant coach with Cleveland,
Jay Wright who retired from college, baunsketball, and he's been
in broadcasting. Mike Budenholzer, who's always available. Rick Brunson, Okay
have father son combination there, Monty Williams, Taylor Jenkins, John Caliperi,
(04:07):
Danny Hurley, Jeff Van Gundy. Those are just some of
the names. Now the odds are long with a lot
of those. It feels like Michael Malone is your He's
the number one candidate by far. I don't think you
fire somebody without knowing who you're going to hire. I've
always felt that do I think the Knicks would make
(04:28):
this kind of decision? And I thought maybe that Tom Thibodeau.
You know, everybody was pointing their fingers at Karl Anthony Towns.
He was getting the blame they weren't going to, you know,
I guess focus in on Tom Thibodeau. It seemed like, Okay,
survive this, You're not firing Karl Anthony Towns. And then
(04:48):
all of a sudden, it's like boom. Now people get
caught up in who pulled the trigger? Does that matter?
Leon Rose is basically he's run the team. He's your
president of basketball operations or whatever. I'd call it a GM,
but he's a former agent and Tom Thibodeau was his,
(05:11):
you know, one of his clients. They just signed Tom
Thibodeaux to an extension. I got thirty million dollar extension
last July. Okay, are you going to make these moves?
You trade away Randall and de Vincenzo, you get Karl
Anthony Towns. Okay, you got Michale Bridges, like, okay, here's
our lineup, and then you get to the Eastern Conference
(05:32):
finals and you'd say, all right, you know that's pretty good. Now,
Karl Anthony Towns didn't play defense. People are surprised you
got a head coach who's a defensive minded guy, Jalen Bruns.
He's not a good defensive player. It feels like they
might have overachieved a little bit here. But I don't
know if ownership said, you know, the Celtics weren't there,
(05:53):
Cavaliers weren't there. We should have beaten the Pacers, we
had home court advantage. We should be playing in the
NBA finals. You know, we don't have depth here. We
use our starters too much. And then all of a sudden,
Thibodeau started using his bench a little bit more in
the series, and I don't know what the tipping point was.
(06:13):
I don't know if that's one of those irrational moments
where the owner goes fire him. Wait, we just gave
him a thirty million dollar extension. I don't care fire
And then your agent, who's now your boss, is the
one who's firing you. But then he helped sign you
to a thirty million dollar and you're on the hook
to pay Tom Thibodeau all of that money. I mean,
(06:39):
you feel like you've graduated from the old way of
doing business with the New York Knicks, Like, okay, now
they're respectable. You know, it's a good, good team. You
got a respected coach, front office owner seems to be
out of the way. You know, former Knicks are now
allowed back in the building. You know, Okay, we're moving
(07:00):
forward here. And then all of a sudden, it's like
put on the brakes. I'll take you back to after
the lost Game six. Jalen Brunson was asked this question.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Gentlem, when you talk about the confidence, obviously, I feel
like nobody takes more criticism than Tom and this team
obviously has turned around during his tenure. Do you kind
of feel that going forward he's the same guy? Lift
you guys the rest of the way that next level?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Is that a real question right now?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
He just asked me if I believe that, if he's
the right guy, Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Thanks guys for fun. And you know, I agree with
what Brunson was saying. Whether you feel otherwise? What are
you going to say? In that moment? Now, I would
have said, why do you think he is still the
right guy? I want? I went Brunson to tick off
things that Thibodeau does. If I'm a reporter, I would say,
(07:57):
why do you think he is still the guy to
lead the Knicks? And then you could get Brunson to
tell us what he sees with his head coach. But
once again, we might look back on two years, three
years and go I have a smart decision. I mean,
I'll go back to when Doug Collins got fired in Chicago,
(08:19):
extremely popular. They brought in an unknown as far as coaching,
Phil Jackson, who had coached in the CBA, and then
people were like Phil Jackson, and then Phil Jackson came
in and the rest is history. We've seen where you know,
teams make a drastic move. Go back to Alex Smith
(08:40):
when he was the quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs,
and all of a sudden, You're going to go up
in the draft to get Patrick Mahomes, and we went,
why do you need Patrick Mahomes? Alex smithon they realized
they can only get to a certain level. And now
you look at that move as one of the great
draft picks in the history the NFL, a draft pick
(09:02):
that changed the NFL. But you had to make, you know,
a gut move. And they've had bad coaching hires in
New York, They've had bad rosters. I mean, the one
constant has been the ownership there. But it feels like
they move past that finally and then this this one
feels like a oh boy, is this the same old
(09:25):
Knicks here? Yeah, Marvin.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Another one from a coaching standpoint, when the Buccaneers got
rid of Tony Dungee and got John Gruden. They were
on the cuss so many times going to conference championship
games and they needed somebody to take them over the hump.
Speaker 6 (09:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean, sometimes you make these moves and they work
out and then we applaud you, and then other times
you make a move, and I mean, look at the
forty nine ers with Trey Lance, like, hey, this is
our quarterback. We're all in on this guy. We're going
up to get him. This guy's going to be the difference.
We're gonna win us super Bowl. We're going back to
the super Bowl. And then all of a sudden, it's
(10:03):
like Trey Lance can't play. And then you get Rock
Purdy and that saved jobs there. But you made a
decision and it could have cost to your job and
then you end up drafting Rock Purdy with the last pick.
It's strange how these things work out. This guy was replaced.
This guy, you know, took us to a championship. This
(10:24):
guy can only get us so far, whether it's a
player or a coach. But with Tom Thibodeau, I mean
we've seen him in Chicago, We've seen him in Minnesota,
we saw him in New York. He's a respected coach
and maybe this is, you know, given his system, given
the players he has, this is as far as he's
going to go. I would say, though, whoever coaches the Knicks,
(10:46):
I'd get a little more depth and I would get
somebody who might be able to make up for Carl
Anthony Towns lack of defense. I can't blame Tom Thibodeau
for Karl Anthony Towns not being able to play defense.
When teams are singling you out, they're just running picking rolls.
I mean, there's nothing you can do. Karl Anthony Towns
(11:08):
had one block shot in an entire series. He's seven
feet tall, he had one block shot. Yeah, seen, is
that block shot thing more just about effort? Well, it
could be position, but I would say, can't you accident?
I mean, I got Brunson who has more block shots.
(11:30):
I would say effort, positioning, maybe wanting to be in
a situation where you want to block a shot, but
that is kind of surprising. Yeah, PAULI do you.
Speaker 7 (11:40):
Guys find yourselves torn with this one because the NIXT
history suggests most of their moves don't work out while
also respecting the ownership for trying something and eating thirty
million dollars to try to get that one title. It's
very hard where to.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Go on this one. Okay. I like Tom Thibodeaux. I
don't think he is an elite coach. I think he's
a very good coach. But I mean I've seen what's
happened in Boston. I don't think they have an elite coach,
(12:18):
but they end up winning, or they've won a championship,
it gets weird. Michael Malone is a very good coach.
He got fired by Denver. There are times when you go,
George carl I think got fired after being he was
coach of the year. He got fired after winning Coach
of the Year.
Speaker 8 (12:35):
Yes, Seden, Yeah, I feel like the one thing you
can't criticize the Knicks for is not trying. Over the
last twenty five years, they've tried. They've thrown everything against
the wall to see if it would stick.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Everything.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
This is to me, that's actually the problem is that
they don't stick to anything.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, whoever comes in, how high is that bar? How
long do you get in that job if you don't
win a championship or at least get to the NBA Championship.
Right because Thibodeau got you to the Eastern Conference finals,
that next coach who comes in we expect this and
(13:16):
can't be there's this grace period where you go, you know,
we got a two year plant. No, I would expect
you to get to the NBA Final, at least to
the Eastern Conference finals, and we don't know. If I
look at the East right now, Indiana is still going
to be Indiana next year. I don't know what you're
going to have with the Bucks with Giannis or Philadelphia
(13:37):
with the seventy six ers Jason Tatum in Boston. I
still think Orlando is a quality team. Cleveland is going
to have their core four unless they make a move.
I mean the East is open ish to Okay, we
got two teams we got to worry about. We got
to worry about the Pacers, and we have to worry
about the Calves because I think the Celtic are gonna
(14:00):
look a little different and you're probably not gonna have
Jason Tatum for most of the year. This is the
window of opportunity if you're gonna try to get back
and at least compete for a title. Okay, but you
got two years. It feels like before the vultures start
to circle here. Yes, Marvin, and.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
I think Tims got fired because of two things. One,
the Game one loss when they were up by fourteen
with less than three minutes left, and you let that
game slip from your fingers at home during the Game one.
And this was their year. Everyone was out. All you
had to do was beat the Pacers. And it's a
team that you thought you could beat. You already beat
the Celtics, Cleveland was out, Milwaukee's not in. All you
(14:42):
got to do is beat the Pacers, who you guys
match up well with. You guys were confident against. You
guys lose that. So I'm sure that had to be
the breaking point for the ownership.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, but part of the problem is people didn't watch
the Pacers and we looked at the Pacers and we
got the Pacers, and then you watch the Pacers and
you go, oh wow, they're pretty good, and you know,
and I blame that on networks not really covering the
other teams. I mean, even Scott Van Pelt said on
his podcast, and you know, I'm paraphrasing kind of like,
(15:12):
I'm embarrassed. I didn't realize how good the Pacers are
because we get fed the same teams over and over
and over and nobody cared. People are going to come
away from this with OKC and go boy. They're really good.
They've been really good all year long. And I think
the perception was you got to get past the Pacers.
They're not any good. They play in Indiana, Like, wait
(15:32):
a minute, watch them play and tell me what your
opinion is. Yes see, I think that's crazy. You weren't
supposed to get past the Celtics. You weren't supposed to
get that far at all, and now that you did,
it's still not good enough. You're supposed to get past.
Speaker 8 (15:45):
The team you met there. You weren't supposed to be
there anyway. And it's not like this season you loaded
up and it's like we're all in this one year.
This is the year we got to do it. Nobody
thought that heading into the season, Like you know, I
could see the Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals that
nobody saw that.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well, the Cabs were injured, the Celtics were injured, and
the door was wide open, right, But you're right. I
think getting this far made it harder to fire Tibodeau
because if things would have played out like we thought,
he wouldn't have gotten this far. And it's almost like, damn,
he got to the Eastern Conference Finals. Yeah, he's still
not the right guy for us. So I think it
(16:23):
might have made it tougher. I think that they thought
about this for a while. I don't think this is
one of those where ownership or management went firing. Wait,
let's think about this. No firing.
Speaker 8 (16:35):
Yes, and that's when they were like, no, you know
what we'll do. This is how we get rid of them.
Let's trade for Karl Anthony Towns. He's already gotten fired once.
That'll be how we get TIBs out again. We'll get
Karl Anthony for the Towns. We'll have them fired twice. Yeah,
and then we're free. Do you think that TIBs wanted
Karl Anthony Towns?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yes? Yes, okay. Stat of the Day brought to you
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(17:17):
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pull question phone calls as well. Back after this.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
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Speaker 4 (17:33):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David, and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
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We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on
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about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(17:55):
sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together. I mean that says something, right, So
check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,
I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the most interactive show on planetar. Be sure to
(18:16):
check out Cavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio
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get your podcasts, and of course on social media that's
Covino and Rich.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I want to give a shout out to a former
teammate at the Mothership, John Buchigras, who covers NHL, and
John brought up something that is very important. I've been
a big proponent of Barry Melrose being put into the
Hockey Hall of Fame. And John went a step further
on Monday, he said, why do Hall of Fames wait
until people die? Why do they adhere to arbitrary categorical
(18:55):
rules that really mean nothing and can be changed with
fewer than twelve words. And he said, Hall of Fame's
museums simply tell a story, and you have ceremonies giving
somebody a chance to feel the love. And I agree.
Now he said Don Cherry, Now I didn't realize Don
Cherry was not in the Hockey Hall of Fame. But
(19:16):
Barry mel Rose absolutely, And I agree with John that.
I mean, look at Pete Rose. Pete Rose might get
into the Hall of Fame, but it's going to be posthumously.
But I hope that Barry Melrose will get that opportunity
to be in the Hall of Fame. And Don Cherry
for that. You know, when you talk about contributions to
(19:37):
the game, Don Cherry absolutely he was the face of
hockey for a long time, certainly in Canada Hockey Night. Yeah, Pauline, Yeah,
while you brought that up.
Speaker 7 (19:49):
Just the other day, the College Football Hall of Fame
changed their criteria of coaches winning percentage. They used to
have a winning percentage to be eligible for the Hall
of Fame. They dropped it a little bit. And now
how a guy like Mike Leach from Texas Tech and
other places is eligible. And a lot of people think
they did this because of Mike Leach, because he's such
an innovator of the game.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah. John Butchergrouz goes on to say that time is
limited for both Don Cherry and Barry Melrose. Don Cherry
is ninety one and Barry has Parkinson's. Then he goes
on to say, how easy is this? What are we doing?
And I agree? I agree. If we agree their Hall
of famers, then let's speed up the process to put
(20:31):
them in the whole of fame. All right? Eight seven
to seven three DP show email address DP at Danpatrick
dot com, Twitter handle it DP show uh Seaton. Poll
question for the first hour is going to be what
PAULI sent this one over? The Knicks are gutsy or
nuts gutsy or nuts. Gutsy or nuts or nutsy? That's right,
(20:51):
NUTSI you can only pick one. Todd Are they gutsy
or nutsy? Gutsy? All right? Seton? Is there a gutsy
to a point of insanity? I'll say, I'll say nuts,
then okay, Nutsyeh, Marvin Nuts, Paul gutsy, no doubt, I'm
gonna say gutsy. I'm gonna say gutsy. Leon Rose has
(21:15):
done a good job. He changed this, I think, the
whole perception, the face of this franchise. And he's made
some really good moves here. I'm gonna have to trust
him that you're part of a decision to fire your
former client. Although he did take care of him. He
(21:35):
gave him that golden parachute of hey, let's let's extend
Tibbs and then, just in case he gets fired, got
a golden parachute of thirty million dollars. PAULI has a
game that it's a it's a player comp game for
Tom Thibodeaux.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
Yes, it's the situation the Knicks and Thibodeaux found themselves in.
And there's a player who was in this situation just
a few months ago.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Okay, so the Alex Smith player come, Yes that he
got replaced by Patrick mahonk exactly, but you'd have to
bring in Phil Jackson, right if that was the case.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
Okay, this is a newer one. This is an NFL
player who kind of out of nowhere raised a team's
expectations and solved a lot of problems. The Knicks, their
problems were solved by Thibodeau. They were competitive again. This
player last year came out of nowhere to solve a
team's problems and establish himself as the answer to a situation.
(22:36):
And then at the end of the season, this player
limped to the finish and they decided to move on
from him. Also unexpectedly, Sam Donald Sam Darnold is correct.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I think this is a way for you to bring
back your love for Sam Darnold to the show. I
think that's what's going on.
Speaker 7 (22:55):
But my love for this Donald situation actually turned out
not wrong, but not to go to the Vikings.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
But they had already drafted JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 7 (23:05):
I'll tell you though, when he was throwing five touchdown
passes in late November or early September, everyone thought you
got to keep.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Him, You got to keep him, you got to go.
But if he was doing that and then in this
year's draft they took JJ McCarthy, then you would have,
you know, a situation where you go, Babe, Sam Darnold
was a Pro Bowl quarterback and you just drafted this guy.
It's apples an orange, but it is.
Speaker 7 (23:29):
It's interesting that a guy who seemed to be locked
they moved on from after a late stumble.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Uh, Chris and Syracuse, Hi, Chris, didn't have you back?
Speaker 6 (23:38):
Hey, thanks as always, Damn Hey. I loved Don Cherryhead
that show with his dog Blue. That was always pretty
good too. And on the poll, I'm going to go
gutsy in a couple comments on my favorite teams. First
Tips getting fired. I think it was I feel bad
and I wish he hadn't. I think it was a
complete knee jerk reaction, probably by Rose. And I think
(23:59):
there's one basic reason he played campaign right Landrew Shama.
During the season. Those guys came in for thirty forty
five seconds at the end of quarters to give people blows.
I mean, they're not defensive stoppers, and he played them
(24:19):
significant minutes. He left Brunston on the bench a lot
of times where he didn't have any foul up trouble
and Dan, during the season, they never were defensive stoppers.
They played and I'm certainly am not talking about Robinson McBride.
We needed Robinson out there, but during the season they
never were out there for any significant amount of time.
Detroit series had a couple pretty good offensive players. They
(24:41):
didn't play them. Boston had we've been Boston healthy for
a lot of that series, he didn't play them. Brunston
and Cant were fine out there. I think to what
Marvin said, I think he could taste it. Rose could
taste the team I put together. We're ready and Boston's
out of the way, Cleveland's out of the way. And
I bet you during this series he's talking to Tibbs,
(25:02):
what are you doing? And Tibbs just kept going And
it probably didn't help him that Detroit, which is a
tough call. He had heart and Brunton he was trying
to get in at the scorer's table and they sat
there forever, and he didn't want to use the last timeouts,
didn't have a foul to gives so And to your point, Dan,
Michael Malone being out there made the choice a little
(25:23):
easier too, and him Jay Right or Monte Williams would
be great. And I just wanted to mention the great
Jim Marshall passed away and he was boy. He was
the quintessential Viking and arguably the greatest biking of all time.
And I know Bud Grant would co sign on that.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
All right, Thank you, Chris, Chris and Syracuse becoming a
regular once again. Jim Marshall is not the Hall of Fame.
I think he started two hundred and seventy consecutive games
as a defensive lineman. He had I think a thirty sacks.
But he's known for one thing. He picked up a
fumble and ran the wrong way the game against the
(26:00):
forty nine ers, and I think they won that game,
but he's known for that he ran the wrong way,
and that's a shame because he was part of the
Purple People leads one of the great nicknames of all time.
That's back when your front four had a nickname or
your defense Doomsday Defense, the Steel Curtain. You know that
(26:22):
that was fun. But Jim Marshall not in the Hall
of Fame. Allan Page is a Hall of Famer from
that front four. But I was surprised that Jim wasn't in.
I think he was. He was one of the finalist
at one year but didn't make it. And he did
so many great community things, charitable things, and I know
(26:46):
that doesn't matter. It did to me, but you know
he just imagine playing that long. You played two hundred
and seventy games, and you're known. He retired at age
forty two, and you're known for one thing he ran
the wrong way. I think he is still the all
time leader in fumble recoveries. I think twenty nine or thirty,
(27:10):
but it was that one fumble that he's known for
over everything else. All right, Uh Buddha in San Francisco, Hi, Buddha,
what's on your mind?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
What up?
Speaker 9 (27:22):
DP?
Speaker 10 (27:23):
Happy hump day boys, Let's go, Fritzie, let's go. And
why you spying this baby? I was going about my
day yesterday and then the Tiars firing came down and
I was it was just shocking, and that's what spawned
this phone call. I mean, listening to all the reactions
to the next last couple days and just that happening yesterday,
(27:44):
I had to call in with a five minute Paul question.
Are the Nicks the Dallas Cowboys of the NBA. I mean,
hear me out both of polarizing always in the news.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know, they both have been they've been.
Speaker 10 (27:58):
Absent of a championship quarters. They do silly things regarding
their team's decisions. I mean, the Cowboys as get bails,
the Knick taps screaming Nate Smith. There's a lot of
similarities there.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
In in my opinion.
Speaker 10 (28:09):
And you think about Tier one pressure. Whoever replaces TIBs
is gonna be in the pressure cooker and his hands
are going to be full.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
This whole situation is.
Speaker 6 (28:19):
Just not good.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Thank you, Buda. I don't think this owner in New
York does things to get clicks to have his team
talked about. I think Jerry Jones does that in Dallas absolutely.
I mean he's going to drag out the Micaeh Parsons
contract situation. He dragged out the Dak Prescott contract situation.
(28:42):
I think this owner in New York has just been
inept at times and who he was hiring or who
he's listening to. And they haven't had those marquee players.
I mean, Dallas still has some guys you tune in
to watch. I mean, and I think you gotta be
fair to TIBs that Jalen Brunson wasn't a star. They
(29:03):
tried to get Donovan Mitchell, they missed on him, and
they brought in Jalen Brunson. The reaction wasn't overwhelming that,
oh my gosh, we have a left handed version of
Clyde Fraser. I mean, Josh hart was a good player
in college, became a real good contributor. Dante DiVincenzo when
(29:26):
he played, became a contributor. I think that Tibbs deserves
some credit for helping to develop these players, and they
were building a roster to compete against Boston O, g Nnobi,
Mikhale Bridges. I wouldn't have brought in Karl Anthony Towns.
I would rather have had Julius Randall and Dante DiVincenzo
because then I have some depth. I have somebody coming
(29:48):
off the bench. You know, Julius Randall will score, k
can move the ball a little bit, good passer, you know.
Losing Hartenstein to Okay See, I thought was a big
deal because he's one of those energy guys, rim protectors.
I don't know, but Timms should get some credit here,
(30:09):
and maybe he won't, but maybe they just felt this
was the golden opportunity. We had home court advantage against
the Pacers. We blew a big lead fourth quarter, and
Haliburton hits that shot and that changed the whole complexion
of this series. Would they have fired him if he
got to the NBA Finals and they lost? If they
(30:32):
got gentlemen sweep, they lose in five? Does he get
fun like? I don't know. Was this a foegone conclusion
decision that was made maybe weeks ago. I just don't
know if it was so spur of the moment. Because
Michael Malone has been available, He's in the on deck
(30:53):
circle for somebody this offseason, and all it takes is
one phone call. That's it. Hey, don't do anything. Let's
see what happens.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
You and me.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Let's just keep it between us and if it doesn't
go the way the owner wants this to go, I
want I want you to know I'm gonna call you.
I mean, is that my interpretation? Yes, yes, Martin, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
I keep going back to if the Knicks lost to
the Cavaliers or to the Celtics, a fully loaded Celtics
teams healthy. All right, man, great season, But I think
it's still the Pacers. Man, we just beat the Celtics
and the Cavaliers are out the two teams that we thought.
You know what, they're probably better than us.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
I just keep may are better than you. Yes, yes,
we inflate the Knicks because oh my god, they're the Knicks.
They're they're good, and I mean Cleveland was good all
year long and then they had injuries. Boston was a
better team. They had the injury to Jason Tatum. Oh
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
Yeah, if you lose to a team that everyone thinks
and even you know that's better than you are, let's
play them hard, valiant effort. But if you lose to
the Pacers, this isn't any good.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I just think that's perception and reality with the Pacers.
The perception is they're the Pacers, correct, The reality is
they're the Pacers. There's a big difference. They're a good team.
They got depth, they got guys who aren't afraid. Now,
do I think Okac's gonna win? Yes, I do. I
think they're a better team. But I think that if
(32:29):
I'm ownership, and I'm going wait a minute, we didn't
have to worry about Cleveland, didn't have to worry about
Boston Milwaukee. We should be in the We should be
playing for the championship here. Yes, marm you and I
we knew the Pacers were good.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
But if we said a in February, the Pacers are
going to make the NBA Finals, or somebody said pie
to the face, the Pacers have a real chance to
make the NBA Finals, I would have taken that against them.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
They went to the Eastern Conference finals last year.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
But so did the Hawks with Trey Young.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Well, no, that was year ago. But I'm saying I
didn't buy into a sixty win Hawks team.
Speaker 5 (33:04):
Oh I didn't either with last year's Pacers team. I
was like, you know what great year?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
No, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8 (33:10):
But even by saying you know, Cavaliers are hurt, Celtics
are hurt, this is our window to sneak through. Really,
what you're saying is we're not supposed to go this far,
but we got a shot right now because we just
got lucky. Yes, that's saying your team's not very good. Yeah,
why in the world did you fire your coach when
you know your team's not very good and he's somehow
(33:30):
still getting you this far? Like it doesn't make sense
to me. It's like conflicting logic. We know the team's
not very good, but man, did we get lucky right here?
Well didn't take advantage of it? Better fire them? I
don't I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I agree, I agree perception reality. We should be in
the NBA Finals only because these other teams were banged up,
Like you shouldn't be in the NBA Finals. We almost
could have been Dang, that would have been sweet. Yeah,
all right, more phone calls coming up. We'll take a
break back after this.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio wapp.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Oh my god, the play of the day lighter WEBSI
got this is the play of the day. Check this out,
swinging it is crank center field, Well hit back ghost
freedom on the track at the wall.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Leaps and he caught it.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Oh, I don't believe it. A game saving Cats by TJ.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Friedel four to two over the Brewers.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
That's courtesy of WLW red's radio network. That is your
Play of the Day, brought to you by Rapid Radios,
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(34:54):
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Tom Thibodeau, Uh, he had consecutive fifty win seasons, so
that's the first time that's happened since nineteen ninety five
with the Knicks, and his wins are fourth among Nick's coaches,
(35:15):
trailing Jeff Van Gundy. He is one ahead or a
couple ahead of pat Riley as well. But on the
outside looking in, as they how long do you wait?
How long is the grace period before you name your
head coach? Do you do it right away to make
it seem like, hey, we know what we're doing, or
(35:35):
do you drag it out a little bit, get a
little more attention here? Who are they gonna who are
they gonna pick? Is Danny Hurley gonna leave Connecticut? Would
Jay Wright want a coach in the NBA? What about
Rick Patino? He'll take a new challenge every year. Yes,
ton I think you.
Speaker 11 (35:50):
Don't want to make a two obviously, you had your guy,
if it'll past number of days or weeks. Even if
you did, we've got to just, out of respect to
the coach, wait a few days, so it looks like
you're painstake, you know, doing some interviewing and trying to
figure out what direction you're going to go in. It's
supposed we had our guy first round of the playoffs lineup.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Okay, But I remember during the NBA Finals back in
the nineties that Commissioner Stern would always tell teams, do
not be announcing, you know, coaching changes. Don't take away
from the NBA Finals. I don't know if the Knicks
are under that advisement, but I'd be curious about that.
(36:28):
You don't want to you don't want to take away
attention from the NBA Finals. Yes see see, I think
that's bs.
Speaker 8 (36:34):
If you had your guy already, why don't you fire
him before the Pacers series so we could have advanced, Yes, Tod,
So if.
Speaker 11 (36:43):
Kerr or Carlisle a supposter or pick one of the
top we consider the top current NBA coaches, if they
were coaching the Knicks, they make it to the finals,
they win the finals.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
What are we saying about that?
Speaker 11 (36:52):
There's someone better currently coaching another team if they can
get on.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, clearly that's what the Knicks are saying that if
we had a better coach, we would have a better result,
or you wouldn't have made this decision. But do I
think Steve Kerr would have guided them to the NBA
Finals or a championship or Eric Spolstra. I mean, we'll
never know. You play the hypothetical game, but I would
say no, I don't think they're better, no matter who's
(37:18):
coaching them than Oka. See, and I didn't think they
were better than the Pacers. And Seton brings up a
great point. If you're looking at this saying we missed
our opportunity, yes, see, that's breaking new. Seton had a
great point. Well, like my dog when you say peanut butter.
(37:40):
But if you're looking at this and you're kind of
handicapping your season saying, well, but Boston lost Tatum and
the Cavs were banged up, this was our opportunity, knowing
full well, you're not better than Boston, you're not better
than Cleveland, you weren't better than Indiana, And I think
that's fools gold to go. You know what, if we
had a new coach in here. If we have this
same roster, you're not getting to the NBA finals. In
(38:04):
my opinion, if it's Michael Malone, if it's Phil Jackson,
you're not getting I don't think you're you're ready. I
think you need depth. What did I say about Denver
when they won the title? They won the title because
they had depth. Yes, you do have stars, Yes you
have the best player in the game. You have to
have players who contribute. It's a half court game. When
(38:26):
you get to the postseason, you must play offense and defense.
You know, you watch a regular season game, it's up
and down, willy nilly.
Speaker 10 (38:36):
So what you know?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
We got Cleveland today and then we got you know, Sacramento,
and you're just playing and then all of a sudden,
every possession matters, every game matters, and it's it just it.
It heightens the awareness of defense in the NBA. It does.
And Oka see has the best defense in the NBA.
(38:59):
Now Indiana has great offense. I love that you have
contrasting styles here. That'll be fun to watch. Let me
see what else do we have. Brian in South Carolina?
Speaker 9 (39:09):
Hi, Brian, Hey, did how you doing?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Good?
Speaker 6 (39:12):
Good? Good?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
What's on your mind.
Speaker 9 (39:15):
Two points about the firing for Tibbs. One, we don't
know if they have a bench. We don't know how
good their bench is because he doesn't play them. He
lived by the sword, died by the sort. He went
with a six to seven man rotation when Chuck Shack
and everybody else at the Mothership are saying we have
to go to an eight or nine men rotation. He
didn't make that adjustment until he was forced to make
(39:35):
that adjustment in game three. Yeap, so, so I mean
that's the first big piece and the second biggest pieces.
Teams in the knixt position in game one were nine
hundred and ninety four and oh before that game. There
has to be some type of consequence or you know,
a thought that, hey, maybe another coach will put us
in a better position when we just had an historic
(39:57):
loss that has shifted the series, and then we respond
by dr the game too at home. There has to
be some consequences, and I think that a Mike Malone
or even a Jay Wright may bring a better look.
And then even Mike Malone, I'm thinking we'll play more
guys off the bench than Tipps did this season, and
that combined with the losses in Game Game Morning game two.
Just sit him in.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, but I got to make sure the guys I'm
playing in Thanks for the phone call, Brian, bring up
some really valid points. I'm not going to just play guys.
I got to play guys who are good. You have
to have good guys who are coming off the bench,
who fit what you're trying to do. And you know
they might need kind of an enforcer there. You know,
somebody a tough guy. Jalen Brunson isn't getting taller and
(40:42):
he's not getting better on defense, and Karl Anthony Towns
isn't getting any better on defense. Now what do you do? Well?
Can you bring in players or a player who can
help fill in the gray area there? I mean, that's
the challenge here, or or Anthony Townsend Jalen Brunson better
be really, really really good at their job to make
(41:06):
up for the lack of defense. Like Steph Curry doesn't
you know, he can't play defense and Luca can't. But boy,
they make you pay because at the end of the day,
they may get forty and then the guy who's guarding
them gets you know, eighteen. You know that's advantage Steph
and Luca. But you know if you're going to live
by that and you might die by that, Yes, Bully,
(41:27):
and not having a bench.
Speaker 7 (41:28):
That's on the GM and ownership because Jalen Brunson took
that team friendly contract. It's team friendly now and next year.
It won't be in a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Coming up, we'll have more on this. Vincent Goodwill our
good buddy from Yahoo's Sports. I think he sat down
with Shaquille O'Neal talking about the NBA Finals. Also big
Shot Bob Robert or Orio. He will join us as well.
More of your phone calls. One hour in the Books
on this Wednesday. Two to go back after this on
the Dan Patrick Show
Hosts And Creators
Todd "Fritzy" Fritz
Dan Patrick
Patrick "Seton" O'Connor
Paul Pabst
Marvin Prince
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