May 22, 2025 • 46 mins
NFL insider Mike Florio discusses the NFL's Olympic ambitions and breaks down Brock Purdy's new deal with the Niners. NFL Network Insider Tom Pelissero discusses Jason Kelce's last-minute case to save the Tush Push and shares why the ban proposal ultimately failed. Basketball Hall of Famer Chris Webber breaks down the Pacers' incredible comeback and reminisces on beating the Dream Team in a practice game.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio. We make way for Mike Florio, Pro Football
Talk Live co host. You can see it Monday through
Friday prior to this show on Peacock and the author
of Father of Mine, Son of Mine, available in e
book form on Amazon for ninety nine cents. Mike, your
(00:21):
thoughts on Jim irsay?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
He was one of kinds. Dan and Chris and I
were trying to find any other owner over the years
that was as overwhelmingly authentic in all ways. He said
what he believed. He did so many good things without
seeking any type of publicity. Tony Dungee told us a
(00:44):
great story earlier today about how when Tony was the
coach in his first year in two thousand and two,
his dad would come to the home games and Jim said, well,
just have him fly on the plane to the road game.
So in two thousand and three, every road game Tony's
with his dad, and his dad passed after that. Just
a little gesture like that, just caring about other people.
And he was gregarious, he was different, he was himself.
(01:08):
He helped address the stigma as relates to mental health.
He was very adamant about that. I just think that
he was one of a kind. He cared about his team,
he cared about his players. You never hear any Colts
players complain about the way they were treated by Jim Mersy.
So the league is lesser for him, and I'm glad
you read that quote. He was the only one who
(01:29):
was willing to break ranks and say what needed to
be said, and what he said in October twenty twenty
two needed to be said, and I think it contributed
to the groundswell to make change. So Commanders fans should
be feeling very, very grateful, and they should have a
special place in their own hearts for Jim irsay, because
without that, I don't know what happens. Maybe it would
(01:50):
have happened anyway, but you have to respect that he
was willing to step aside from the club and say
what needed to be said.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Seemed to be a groundswell late yesterday that you had
Jason Kelcey, former Eagles center and he goes to the
owners meetings and he is a lobbyist, basically trying to
get the tush push to stay in the NFL. I
don't know what kind of impact he had, but it
felt like he did have an impact here, Mike, because
(02:17):
I think the NFL was doing their damnedest to get
rid of this play and.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I don't think they're going to stop Dan twenty two
to ten the final vote. That means they only need
to get two teams to change their position between now
and next March if they try it again. And it's
clear that the league is the one that was behind this.
We reported yesterday that they basically encouraged the Packers to
(02:42):
be the ones to make the proposal. They have their
own system for proposing rule changes. It's very odd to me,
and they did it with two different proposals this year,
the tush pushban and the playoff seating that was submitted
by the Lions. Rod Wood, the president of the team, said,
they came to us and said, hey, how would you
like to partner on this? Well, sure didn't seem like
a partnership. It seemed like it was the Lions.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So it's just a.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Strange way of doing business. And the bottom line, I
think the commissioner wants both of those things, and he's close.
Two teams need to have their arm twisted sufficiently to
go from the yes to the no. As it relates
to the tush push. So I don't think this is
over and it's unfortunate because look, they created the atmosphere
(03:29):
where this play was allowed to emerge by changing the
rules against pushing the runner in two thousand and six
and allowing it. And you can make whatever case you
want to make, but I think at the end of
the day, it just comes off as we don't like
the fact that the Eagles have cracked the code and
no one else can crack it, so we're going to
get rid of it. And it makes it hard, I think,
(03:50):
to sell to the average person because it just feels
like kind of a petty and small attack on what
the Eagles have perfected.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
If this is Tampa Bay, do we care about this?
It's the Eagles and they're winning, and they're winning a
Super Bowl, and I just wonder is it the play
or is it the team with the play.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I think that it's a confluence of events that have
led to where we now are. It's the combination of
the play is very effective. The Eagles are highly successful.
Dan I believe the catalyst for this, and there's evidence
to back it up. Mike Pereira, the Fox Rules analyst,
formerly the VP of Officiating. He said in the days
(04:36):
after the NFC Championship that that ugly exchange we saw
with the Commanders jumping offside repeatedly to the point where
the referee, Sean Hockyley had to warn the Commanders, if
you do it again, we're going to award a touchdown
to the Eagle, something that's never been done in the
history of the league. A touchdown awarded for what they
call a palpably unfair act. I think someone saw that,
possibly the guy whose signature is on every football, and said,
(04:59):
we got to get rid of this thing. We can't
have this. And it's a bunch of different things that
came together. And the problem is they shouldn't nip this
in the bud when it first started. They should have realized, no, no, no,
we never meant by changing the world to will allow
pushing the runner, that you're gonna build it into your
playbook and you're gonna weaponize it, and you're gonna create
this play that doesn't look like a football play. But
(05:19):
they waited too long, and now it looks like an
attack on the Eagles, and when they try to give justifications,
it's almost Keystone Cops well it's a safety risk. Okay,
shows the data. Well we don't have any data. Well
it could be a safety risk. Well what does that mean. Well,
it doesn't look like a football play. And they're moving
the goalposts around literally on this thing, and it just
(05:40):
it's a bad look. It's a very bad look for
the league. And I think that every team out there
they have two challenges now, one come up with a way
to do it. Two, come up a way to stop it.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
When we were in Green Bay for the draft and
I pressed Matt Lafleur, I said, did the league, you know,
instruct you? And he said, well, we were nudged. We
were nudged they you know, they needed to have a team.
So hey, we want you to be the sacrificial lamb.
Put your name to it, just like the Lions with
(06:13):
the playoff seating. So yeah, I mean, you know, coach
told us that that the league nudged them in so
many words.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, and that just it's odd. And why would you
pick the Packers is the team to do it? They
lost to the Eagles twice last year. It reeks of
sour grapes if they do it. Pick a team from
the AFC. The Bills would have been the perfect team
to get behind this, literally because they do it too,
and they do it well. Now, the original proposal didn't
affect the way the Bills do it because they always
(06:43):
do a delayed push. The first proposal targeted immediate push,
and that would have opened Pandora's box of inconsistency and
cries of rigging. Can you imagine Dan if the Eagles
had scored a touchdown at the goal line in a
playoff game and a flag comes out out because someone
in black and white stripes thought it was immediate and
(07:05):
maybe it wasn't They already have enough fans saying the
fixes in. That would have been a nightmare. So they
backed up and they said, well, let's just come up
with a general band. But at the end of the day,
at the end of the day, there's still two thirds
of the league that wants to get rid of it.
It's only because the league requires a seventy five percent
super majority to change the rules that it stayed. There
(07:27):
is something to be said for the fact that twenty
two teams want to get rid of it, and I
think that that's going to embolden the commissioner to work
the back channels, make a deal, maybe make a little
bit of a threat. We've seen retribution in the past
for teams that oppose things the commissioner wanted. And I
know that that you know, Oh, you're not supposed to
say those things, but it's true. It's true, we've seen it.
(07:48):
I know teams believe they've been targeted for unfavorable scheduling
or multiple short week games because they were against flexing
of Thursday night football. That happened a couple of years ago.
So I don't think this is over and by next year, Dan,
don't be surprised if there's safety data to support the position.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Talking to Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk Live co host
also contributor to NBC Football Night in America, the Olympic
flag football initiative is going strong thanks to the NFL.
Help me understand how many NFL players will actually be
on the US Olympic roster for flag football.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, they announced the US men's team for the twenty
twenty five competitions earlier this week and there were twelve
players and six Ordnates. But for the Olympics, it's a
five on five flag football with ten players on the team.
I don't know how many ordinates. The proposal that became
a final resolution this week allows for one player maximum
per NFL team to be available for the Olympics, plus
(08:52):
their international Pathway Program player that they have. But the
main thing is the players who are the stars, the
names we know receivers really want to do this for
the most part, a lot of them. Okay, let they
go get the gold medal.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
But that roster made up of ten players can consist
of how many NFL players.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It can be ten, it can be ten, but only
one per team.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Okay, so the entire roster can be the NFL. They're
basically going to say to all the people who do
play play frank flag football professionally that we're going to
take away your roster spots.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
For the most.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Part, I think it's still early on and all we
know is one player per NFL team is eligible, and
there will be ten players on the US men's team.
It's going to be for the USA Football group to
determine who's on the team. And there's I don't know
how you're gonna do it. Are you gonna have tryouts,
are you gonna have competitions? Are you just going to
(09:51):
make a guess as to which NFL players will able
to be able to learn flag football, which is a
very different game than tackle football. How much time are
you going to have every rep that you put in
to practicing for the Olympic Flag football is another opportunity
to be injured.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
People say, oh, it's flag football, Well google Robert Edwards
if you want to know what can happen to somebody
who's not playing tackle football but still playing football. And
that's the risk that the NFL has persuaded the teams
to take. Under this guise of you're only putting one
player up for the Olympics, there's so many other ways
this can go. You know, there's no agreement between the
NFL and the union yet on how this is going
(10:30):
to work. The Union may have some things to say.
I can see a scenario where players can bargain with
their teams to sacrifice their right to play in the
Olympics if the team wants to pay them a little
more money. I mean, if I was an owner and
I have a star player who's on the fence, maybe
I get a clause in his next contract where he
waives his right to be part of the Olympic team.
(10:52):
And if I'm the player and I can get more
money by doing that, I'm all for it. But they haven't.
They haven't even begun to negotiate how this is going
to look. There's so much more work that needs to
be done. This is the beginning. It feels like the end.
No no, no, no no. There's so much that still
needs to be done over the next three years.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
The brock Pretty deal. Whenever there's a deal, a big deal,
I always go to Pro Football Talk. I go go
to your site because hey, you sort through all of this,
because agents will put out look at what I got
for my player, And I always go, all right, let
me see what Florio has found out. Tell me the
brock Pretty deal and is it good for? Is this
(11:34):
team friendly? Is it brock friendly? How do you kind
of gauge this?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I think at the end of the day, Dan, it's
a fair deal for both sides. That acknowledges the reality
that brock Party isn't a top five quarterback. And I
know that there are forty nine Ers fans who will
insist otherwise he's not a top five quarterback. He's not
a top ten quarterback. In my opinion, he's middle of
the pack, and there's no shame in being middle of
the pack in NFL quarterbacks. That means for the guy
who was the last pick in draft, there's only fifteen
(12:01):
guys on the planet who can play quarterback in the
NFL better than him, And the way this deal is
going to go, he'll make thirty eight million a year
for the next three years. The key date is April one,
twenty twenty seven. That's the deadline for the forty nine
ers to cut him before having fifty five million become
fully guaranteed in twenty twenty eight. So based on the
(12:23):
next two years, they'll make a decision as to whether
to be on the hook for fifty five million fully
guaranteed in what would be year four of the contract,
and they could get out of it after two years.
They'd still own twenty seven million dollars subject to offset,
but they can get out of this after two years
if the chariot turns into a pumpkin, so they have
some protection. That's always one of the key factors that's
(12:45):
never in the initial reporting. How long are the forty
nine ers truly committed. They're truly committed for two years,
they're gonna have to make a decision after year three
by April one, whether or not they want to be
on the hook for another fifty five million in twenty
twenty eight. But over six it's forty five million a year.
That's all that matters. New Money Average is a fiction
aimed at making the agents look better. Fifty three million
(13:07):
doesn't mean anything. What matters is it's a new six
year contract. He'll make forty one million this year instead
of five million, and it's a six year, forty five
million dollar deal.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Got better understanding on Aaron Rodgers' future or the Bengals
Trey Hendrickson Neither neither.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And look, the reality with Hendrickson is he's got some options,
he's got some leverage, he's got some cards to play.
But if he holds out of all the teams in
the NFL, Dan, you know this. The Bengals don't care.
They told Carson Palmer, you want to sit home on
the couch, watch him bowling and eating pork rynes, go
for it. We don't care. We don't have to pay you.
We'll pocket the money. Eight hundred and eighty eight thousand
(13:47):
a game. Trey Henderson gives up Mike Brown's like, fine,
put it with the rest. So they're not gonna blink,
They're not gonna bow here. The reality is how much
pressure is Joe Burrow gonna put on the Bengals to
do this? He started the effort around the Super Bowl.
He named four guys Jamar Chase t Higgins, Mikeasicki, and
Trey Hendrickson. And I think the Bengals stepped up to
(14:08):
the plate with three of them under pressure from Joe Burrow.
Will they do what they need to do to make
Trey Hendrickson happy? That remains to be seen. But there
isn't a whole lot he can do to force this
because if he stays home, they'll say, fine, we'll keep
your money. And with Rogers Ian O'Connor, who wrote the
biography last year, he was on with one of the
Pittsburgh radio stations, ninety three seven The Fan last week
and he thinks it'll happen during OTAs. I think it
(14:31):
makes sense for it to happen soon. And he's there
next week for OTAs. But remember this, when Brett Favre
showed up with the Vikings in two thousand, I remember
there was a schism in the Minnesota locker room between
the guys who wanted Brett Favro and the guys who
wanted Traveris Jackson. You know how long it took for
the schism.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
To be resolved?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
One practice the moment Aaron Rodgers shows up and starts
throwing passes that make a sound they've never heard before.
When it whizzes by their head, they'll say, okay, we
know why. You'll wait until whenever it was that Aaron
Rodgers decided to show up.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Your takeaway from the Brett Favre documentary, Well.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Look, and I think there's two different types of audience.
One the people who don't follow the NonStop drip drip
drip of NFL news. Like for me, there was nothing new.
I was looking for something new. There's nothing new there.
It's a nice summary of everything that's happened, but there
was nothing that made me say, well, I have to
go write a story for PFT with this quote, this development,
(15:30):
this thing. It's all stuff we already knew, but it's
all in one place. And I don't know, Dan, were
you surprised by anything that was in it? I wasn't.
I knew it all. And yeah, that that's the stuff
Brett Farv did or allegedly did. Gotta be careful, don't
want to get sued the stuff we know he did,
and this stuff he allegedly did.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Good to talk to you, Mike. Thanks you ch answer,
Mike Florio. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
foxsports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search
FSR to listen live.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We have a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(16:26):
sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together. I mean that says something, right, So
check us out. We like to get you involved too.
Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say,
I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure
(16:46):
to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports
Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific, and if you miss any
of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever
you get your podcasts, and of course on social media
that's Covino and.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Tom Pelisero NFL Network Insider. You didn't know you were
going to get that, did you, Tom?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
You know, the.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Verbal cadence, the speed, the number of words per second
is dead on Kevin Harlan. I grew up watching Kevin
Harlan calling Timberwolves games when they were absolutely awful from
about nineteen eighty nine to the mid nineties, and they'd
be down forty points and Kevin McHale will be sitting
next to Kevin eating popcorn on the air. The only
(17:30):
thing I would say with Kevin, you're a little in
the nose, Fritzy. I think you got to get it down.
It's a little more down here. When you do it,
you gotta be a little deeper in the throats. That's
the only critique I would have, but again, beautiful nine
out of ten.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Noted thank you all right, Okay, what happened yesterday late
in the morning and Jason Kelsey's role in keeping the
Tush Push in NFL vernacular.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
It's hard to say how many people were actually way
by anything that happened in the room. Dan, I would
tell you the people I talked to before the meeting
who told me we're going to vote to get rid
of the touch Push, they voted against it. The people
who told me were going to vote against this this band,
they voted against the band.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
But there was.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Certainly, you know, a compelling case. And you know, as
I said, because I'm sitting there right outside the room
and I see Jeffrey Lewie, a couple other Eagles officials
in Jason walking, and I said, to go, Jeffrey bringing
in the big guns. He goes, Absolutely, this was a
very you know, orchestrated plan for them to counter some
of the narratives that had been going around about you know,
(18:37):
did Jason Kelsey actually like running this play? Was it
actually a reason that he decided to, you know, stop
playing in the NFL. I'll tell you this. You know,
even though this did not pass. Twenty two out of
thirty two teams voted to ban it.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Twenty two.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
That's that's over two thirds of the teams in the
league voted to eliminate not just the touch push but
all push plays. In the end, it's twenty four. It's
a high bar. It's supposed to be a high bar.
You know they weren't able to pass it. You know
what role would Kelsey and Lurie actually play. I know
what the narratives are, I know what the quotes are
that are out there. I got the sense this was
(19:12):
always going to be close, but there was a sense
going into the meeting that they thought the people who
were proponents thought they were going to have the votes.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Ultimately they came up too short.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, because I don't think the commissioner tables this and
then brings it back without having the number of votes
needed to get rid of it that he clearly wants
to get rid of it if he has to nudge
the packers to say, put your name to this, that
you wanted out. And you know, if you're the packers,
you come off as you know, poor losers. Hey, you know,
(19:43):
we we get beat by them. Now, we don't want
it in the league. And the point that I brought
up earlier, if this is Carolina, does anybody care if
Carolina can run this successfully? I mean, let's be honest,
does anybody object to them doing this? If they were
extremely successful.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
If they're a five and twelve team. It's not the
national phenomenon. I'm not being asked to go on the
NBC Nightly News with wester Holt to talk about the
push push if it's not a run by a team
that just won the Super Bowl. It's just it's a
different it's a different conversation. But I would say this, Dan,
think about the number of health and safety related rules
that have passed over let's call it the last two decades.
(20:25):
If you watch a tape, forget the seventies and eighties,
you watch a game from the nineties, early two thousands,
it's completely different because of you know, the hits on
defensives receivers that you're not allowed to do now, where
you're allowed to hit the quarterback, all the things that
went into taking the crown of the helmet out of
the game, you know, trying to emphasize the spearing rules.
They're all health and safety related changes. This is and
(20:47):
I've covered the league over twenty years. This is the
first time that I can remember that you had the
Competition Committee strongly in favor of a health and safety
related ban on a play, that you had the medical committees,
that you had the medical people with the NFL all
saying this needs to be outlawed, and it did not pass.
But this was also the first time that a rule
(21:08):
was brought forth with health and safety related reasons to
do it where there was no injury data. So that's
the complicated part here is usually these health and safety rules,
it's like a rubber stamp because it's hey, we want
to make the game safer, we want to avoid lawsuits,
we want to avoid liability, all those things, but usually
have injury data to back it up. In this case,
(21:28):
what you're arguing is, hey, no injuries have occurred. It's
been run what one hundred and twenty times last year,
so it's been run maybe three hundred times in NFL history.
But the biomechanics, the posture, the amount of mass and
force this could lead to something dangerous that ultimately was
not a compelling enough reason to get the two extra votes.
Now we'll see the NFL is a big data gathering operation,
(21:50):
you know, whether it's from an injury perspective, from a
how many times is this run a success rate? All
those things are going to go into whether or not
this potentially comes up again in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah. Will, But I also I don't have a problem
if the league says we don't have health data to
get rid of this play. But unlike the kickoff, we
want to be proactive, not reactive to this. We want
to get out in front of this. It's just like,
you know, their player safety. I'm all for that, but
I also think, just like with an on side kick,
(22:21):
there's inherent danger. When you play football, you sign up
for this, and that's what I don't understand. With the
on side kick. I get, okay, but it's football now
you're kind of trying to bring it back. Now we
want to have a few more kickoffs coming back, like
it's either one or it's either this or nothing. Like
(22:42):
I don't think you can kind of go you know,
not many guys got hurt on kickoffs last year that
we thought, hey, how about we do this or the
on side kick, how about you kick from the thirty
four not the thirty five like, what are we doing well.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
With the brother The onside kick is a function of
the kickoff. Because of the alignment on the dynamic kickoff,
you can't run an onset kick from that formation. So, yes,
you eliminate all the element of surprise, which is that's
the baseline issue here. This is you know, realistically, there
were fifty on st kicks last year. Three got recovered.
That's six percent. The historic rates are like twelve percent.
(23:18):
So you're not thinking this is suddenly going to lead
to you know, twenty more recoveries. You're just hoping you
get a couple more. You see what happens here, But
without the element of surprise, it makes things really really difficult.
There's not a clear answer, you know, to go back
to the broader kickoff issue that was about you're trying to.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Reduce the space and speed.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
It's it's physics, is what it is.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
You're going.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Okay, last year they wanted the return rate to be
really low to make sure that the injury rate went down. Now, okay,
it seems like this is a positive change. Now let's
change the touchback rule. Let's try to generate more returns
and see if that continues to go forward. The NFL
generally does these things very incrementally to make sure that
(23:58):
it's not like the pass interference review disaster back in
twenty nineteen, where they passed the rule before they wrote
it and then nobody could enforce it and finally this
went out.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Forget it. We're just not gonna overturn anything.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
That's what they want to avoid on say kick though,
there's just there's not a clear answer here unless you
really seriously consider the thing that Philadelphia has been proposing
for the last probably five six years, which is a
fourth and whatever fourth and twenty let's call it alternative,
where it's one play, it's make it take it. That
(24:29):
would be a fundamental change of the game to some
people who think it's gimmicky. But ultimately, Dan, that might
be somewhere along the line where we end up.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Tom Petlserro, NFL Network Insider. You can see him on
the Insiders on the NFL Network. That's weeknights, it's seven Eastern.
Everybody's all excited about the Olympics. Everybody's ready to go.
They want their medals. I'm just curious the owner's reaction. Now,
they had to pass this, but they also have to
(24:57):
allow their players to be able to play or try
out on guessing, how does this work? If I'm an
owner and Patrick Mahomes goes man, I'd love to have
a gold medal. Well, I'd love to have another Super Bowl, Patrick,
So I don't want to risk you getting hurt. How
does this work and not hurt feelings?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Well, the I would say this, there's enthusiasm at every
level of this, from the stakeholders, from the league office
who see this as part of their global expansion plans,
to the teams that like the idea of again making
more money because if you can continue to increase international revenue,
that's only going to help the value your franchises. The players,
(25:37):
you know, for the most part, not everybody. There are
some guys who have said I'm not going to get
involved with that. I don't make money to play flag football.
But a lot of players are going to want to
do it here. But I would say the NFLPA also
has expressed, you know, enthusiasm for this, but they still
got to work out and some of these rules. There's
questions about injury protections and insurance and you know, even
(26:00):
though this is gonna happen in the early portion of
the twenty twenty eight games, and so it's gonna end
before training camps. There's still gonna be some players who go, wait,
I'm using my whole off time, my whole spring and
summer to get ready for this, and then I'm just
gonna PLoP down two days later and go into training camp.
So there's some questions there. You know, unions defend wages, benefits,
working conditions and all those things are subject to further
(26:23):
evaluation here. So those are gonna be ongoing conversations. They're
gonna actually have to come to an agreement. There's like
a round, Okay, we like this idea, we all want
to make more money. Let's work on this together. But
the details still have to be worked out in terms of,
you know, how the process works over the next few years.
And I asked this question to a bunch of the
people who've been involved in these conversations. You know, just
(26:43):
like every other Olympic sport, there's like different qualifying things,
and there are national teams, and you know, you have
this vision of Okay, the you know you might have
Let's say, you know, forget Team USA for a second,
because that's the team that's gonna have the most options.
But let's say your Korea and you've got hey, we
can get Kyler Murray, we get Kyle Hamilton, We're not
going to have him till twenty twenty eight. Well, you're
(27:03):
gonna have to qualify before that. And if the current
Korean national team isn't any good, those guys are gonna
get left out. So that stuff, from my understanding, really
starts next year and then heats up in twenty twenty seven.
So this is going to be kind of an ongoing
evolution in terms of what does this look like. Every
national body is going to approach this differently. I would
(27:24):
certainly anticipate USA football fully embraces this and wants all
the NFL players, even though you've got you know, the
current team USA quarterback saying, you know, I think I'm
better than Patrick Mahomes And I said that. So I
had Justin Jefferson come on The Insiders the other night
and I brought that up. I'm like, you got this
guy like, is there any doubt in your mind that
NFL players could be better than the current FLAG players?
He's like, well, many, you know, they know the game,
(27:46):
but you know, Patrick Mahomes like good luck, dudees like,
there's no way, there's no way you're getting that spot
from him.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Good to talk to you, Tom, Thanks for joining us
as always, Thanks for having me Dad. That's Tom Pelso
be sure to catch live edition of The Dan Patrick
Show week days at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio WAP. Chris Webber,
hall of Famer, joining us on the program. See web
How does that happen? You're up fourteen at home, three
(28:17):
minutes to go.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
It happens when you have a really special team.
Speaker 6 (28:21):
Uh. You know, first of all Haliburton when you look
what he did, and thee Smith, all the other guys.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
But please, let's not forget coach Carlisle.
Speaker 6 (28:31):
You know, he's a he's a great coach, and he's
coached guys like Jay Kidd.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
He's coached against the greatest players.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
He's played with the Celtics, by the way, so he
knows a little bit about offense. And to me, it
was just wearing you down. Some teams we give a
lot of credit for wearing you down with their defense.
And I played on teams whether Sacramento and others, where
we wear we wore you down with our offense as well,
and that means just keeping your foot on the pedal,
never looking up, and trusting your players. And you know
(29:00):
those last three minutes, I mean, wow, these are some
of the most exciting games I've seen a long time.
So it's great to be a fan and watch all
the excellences going on.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Why is it different playing in the garden than any
other place?
Speaker 6 (29:13):
Well, I would say the garden in Old La, Old La,
because you had stars like Jack and others that were
there and you would see. But I think it's because
it's not just about new stars. I think it's about
the fact that because those arenas are so old, you
know Kareem played there or you know you know that
(29:33):
I don't know Willie Allen or someone else was at
those games. And so as a player, you come in saying,
you know, I better give my best performance because this
is where the best performers are. How many times do
you get to perform in front of your heroes? And
so for me, New York was always special. And you know,
if I could send out a PBA alert because New
York is so cocky, I have a very close friend,
(29:56):
his name is Has. I won't give his full government name.
But anyone in New York please look out for Hogs
and just make sure you watch over him because he.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Was hitting me with being bong and all this other stuff.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
And I haven't heard from him in about sixteen hours,
so please look out for my manor house. But it's
so much fun, and part of that too, is sending
those crowds home quiet. It's no better feeling than any arena.
But you know LA and New York, when you do it,
you know you feel a little extra special.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Okay, but did you ever have conversations with celebrities? Did
you ever flirt with a celebrity in LA when you
were playing?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Never flirted.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
But if I saw, you know, someone that I wanted
to flirt with, or I raised my game, you know,
you want to play well and send them home with something.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
You know, so Jilly Marry is their court side. You
might you might want the ball a little more.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Oh yeah, and you know you might you know, shoot
your shot or dunk on someone a little harder and
mistakenly look at it.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
You know, you know it's not the weak. But oh,
I'm sorry, Did I just do that?
Speaker 6 (30:55):
You know, that's that type of thing I do remember
the best compliments I ever got was Jack looks before
the game and the playoffs in LA and you would
change right by him and I'm really focused and nervous
and getting ready to go, and he.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Says the calm before the storm.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
You were calm before the storm, and we blew LA
out that game. And I remember thinking he never should
have given me that compliment because I had to live
up to that in front of him.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
What's it like though, when everybody knows you're getting the
ball like you and the feeling of I don't Some guys,
you know, they run away from the ball, Others run
to the ball.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
I think that it's all about knowing your game. It's
really simple. Knowing that you have a move and a
counter move with its starting like that, it's really easy.
And then if you have great players around, it's easier
to trust. So I can only speak from my experience,
but knowing that I was gonna get double team late
in the game, I would be talking to Pager of
Lodi and them during the whole game, like, you see,
(31:58):
they're gonna come double me at this point. Later I
got you, And so it gives you freedom. The easiest
person to check on the court is a selfish person,
and so you have to make sure through your abilities
that you keep everyone on their toes. Just look at
a guy like Jokis. You know he wants the ball
late in the game, but he may not shoot seven
possessions in a row, but they're going to score seven
possessions in a row. So for me, the most important
(32:20):
thing is, yeah, can you score. But there are a
lot of guys we waited to the end to double
because they didn't have to acumen the pass or didn't
even know where other teammates were. And so to me,
it's how can you make a score happen if you're
a great player late in the game. And Lebron was
accused a lot for that, but he's one of the
best examples Magic as well of being able to take
(32:42):
a moment find it. Know that I can score, but
it may be easier to loosen you up by finding
a wide open Jr. Or someone in the corner or
Booby Gibson that hurt us in Detroit to kill you
a little bit better instead of being selfish.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, but we give Magic a hall pass and say
that's a positive Lebron. People viewed that that is a
negative that he didn't want to take the big shot
in those situations with Magic. It was like, look at
how unselfish he is.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
Yeah, no, you're right, Dan, But so let's separate the
first time he played against San Antonio. Let's separate you know,
when he was learning on that learning curve. But he
always played the right way. And so there was one
game I think in the Pistons game seven, I think
we're playing against them and we're, you know, trying to
go to the championship, and this guy scores.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Twenty four in a row, twenty five in a row.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
But Booby Gibson had a great game because he was
finding this guy in the corner. And then you wonder,
how does a guy like Nesmith, how does a guy
like Booby Gibson come out of nowhere? How does a
guy like Fisher Derek Fischer come out of nowhere and
do these things? So let's because Shaq trusted at one point,
it's because Lebron trusted. So yeah, that's that line in
the sand with Lebron. But when he was able and
(33:50):
found his voice, found his way on the court, he
still played the right way. And for me, he doesn't
get enough credit for that.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Did Lebron have forty three on you guys in that
game seven?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I know he had twenty four to twenty five straight and.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Oh he had forty had forty eight.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Thanks.
Speaker 6 (34:08):
I'm acar Rashii Wallason reminds him of that because that's
one of Rashid's biggest failures, or I won't even say that.
That's something that hurt Rashid the most, is a defensive
player that it was one guy on the floor that
we couldn't stop it. So yeah, whatever he did, he
hurt our feelings and he kept us from a championships.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Hurt your feelings. He's Chris Webber Hall of Famer. I
mentioned this earlier. We can't underestimate the impact of the
Dream Team in nineteen ninety two on the world because
here we are, what thirty three years later, and look
at the best players in the game. The players are
from outside the top five players. You can make an
argument are not American born shay Gil just getting the MVP.
(34:48):
You got Luca, you got Jannis. I mean, we can
go down the list there, but that impact of we
laughed at the rest of the world. We're crushing Barkley's
making fun of peopleocused on us whereas the world focused
on them, and how how do we get better as
a basketball country? And look at what that impact did
(35:11):
with the NBA.
Speaker 6 (35:13):
So you're right, that impact was great. I remember just
hearing about players like Sabonis or other players and really
not knowing until I got to play with great players
like Sharona's Marshalon this or or Paygerstoyakovich or Potapinco or others.
I think we did a great job in showing our
secrets and showing them you know that you can be
like Jordan at least you could dream like this, and
(35:35):
if you don't reach Jordan's ability, you can still be
pretty good if you watch him. And so I think
that we did a great job in exposing the game.
But I also think the way that the system was
set up. You know, Luca was professional at what fifteen,
So if he's professional at fifteen, comes to the NBA
with five years experience and playing against grown man, he's
going to have a.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Better trajectory.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
And so I think that the systems that we had
overseas and a lot of guys to play, especially the younger,
helped them advance a lot quicker. But our last seven
MVPs then were all foreigners so to speak, or people
from other places. And truthfully, Sean could have won last year,
and truthfully the year indeed won. You know, Yokis could
have won that, so you could have a full time
(36:16):
I really look at Yokis is missing the MVP. He
should have one more MVP. So I love the way
that the game is spread, but it comes back to skill,
skill skill, and hopefully in a set of fire under
a lot of the young kids to you know, be
the best that they could be. But I think the
game is going to always elevate no matter who's the best,
because guys around the world watched the best and we
become better after that.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
But you also look, and I'm sure you remember this,
but when Barkley won MVP, when Karl Malone won MVP,
everybody knew that Michael Jordan was the best player in
the game, right, Shay gilgis is getting the MVP, But
I think everybody recognizes Joker is still the best player
in the game. It just and yeah, I mean Sga
(36:59):
and Okaye had the best year and he's the best player.
But I don't know how players reacted when you know
Barkley played well for Phoenix, Carl played well for Utah.
You know, Michael, I don't think cared about the regular
season as much as he's gonna win a championship.
Speaker 6 (37:17):
Well, I also think there's fatigue. You know, there's jo
kids fatigue. Yeah, yeah, you know, you really think about it.
You can't have a co m VP. But how did
he not win the MVP? But then again with Shay,
I think I think too. I think it's the culture
of how we play. If we want to really be honest,
I think that you know, I love playing with players
that make everyone better, and so I think the days
(37:39):
of just scoring forty and being that guy like that's
that's not necessarily winning basketball, to be doubled in the
post and not getting anyone else involved. That's why we
love Jokics and maybe not other sinners. And so I
think the culture, at least from watching Doctors, at least
from watching Shi is that Shay gilges is that they're
(38:00):
always gonna try to make the right play, even if
it's being selfish four or five times in a row.
But watching them facilitate get other guys involved is so special.
That's why Holla Burton is special though, and I've always
known that even if he was drafted this Sacramento because
he gets everyone involved. And I think that that has
become the culture of the European player and as Americans
(38:24):
being the best scorer, you know, it's a little more
that you can add to that. And I think that
that's where the line of the sand is gonna come,
Like how how much better do you make your team?
And Shy's team would not be that good? Okay, see
when the gout the first round without him, and Denver
may not have made the playoffs without Jokis. And that's
what I like. The distinction in the MVP argument is
not that, oh look at the stats. If we really
(38:45):
take them away from their teams without them even scoring.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
They make their teams better.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
And I think that that shows what the most valuable
player is, not the most valuable score, but the most
valuable teammate.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
But you were on the college select team that beat
the dream too, right.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Oh yeah, we beat them, coach k how you doing.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Like it was real though? That was a real game,
right yeah?
Speaker 6 (39:10):
I mean it was it was a practice then, Like
you know, I'm sure that you've been around your heroes
and commentating or journalism and things when you first got
in the game, and if you really first remember those things,
just you know, there was no social media. Dominique Wilkins,
and you know I had him on the wall with
books and the Tonics, the different shoes, I had magic
(39:32):
every I knew everything about them that you could at
the time.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I watched all the Bloopers tapes.
Speaker 6 (39:36):
Remember that's all we could get was the Bloopers tapes
with the coach from Utah at the time, so access
was not here, and Frank Frank Laydon and I remember,
I remember being in a huddle and with literally with
tears in our eyes because we're eighteen twenty at this time.
I just come from the championship. We were losing at Duke,
and I'm playing with Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill and
(39:58):
all my friends and we're in a huddle like this
is a dream come true. None of us were thinking
about going to the league. You know what I mean,
This is the if I go back to the purest
of moments in sporting life, it had to be then,
you know.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Because it was okay.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
I couldn't believe how quick Bobby Hurley was and that
it transcended onto the court against Magic where he's taking
Magic and Stockton like, we didn't believe in ourselves like this.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
These were just our heroes. Barkley was my favorite player.
Speaker 6 (40:26):
So to go against Barkley and Patrick Ewing and a
dunk on them that was like the biggest thing in
the call home. And so we really played the hardest
that we could. We caught them sleeping, and Chuck Day,
being from me, tried and had a great relationship with him,
and I remember him patting us on the back like
good job. And you know, as a good coach you
want to use different things to centivize your team. And
(40:46):
we beat them, and for them to say last point,
it's so infuriating to hear him saying, well, Jordan's sat on
the bench. Jordan could have sat on the bench the
whole scrimmage. And you're saying, we still beat the All
Star team.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
We'll take that. And so I think any.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
Excuse for them is not giving the credit of how
great they were, and any great team thos you can
get caught slipping. One day, we caught them slipping and
the next day I do not remember us scoring one basket.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
That's how much.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
They wanted to pay us back, So if they didn't
beat us, then they wouldn't have been that mad that
next day because they kicked our ass.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Who was it?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Was it Rodney Rogers.
Speaker 6 (41:25):
Rodney Rogers. I don't know why he kept talking. He
was just always talking. His country guy is so strong.
And I remember Larry Bird because because he was my hero,
and I just remember watching him and we didn't realize
he was that tall.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
His back was hurting, you know, he kind of ran
with a little bit.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
Of a gait, but his movements because he was such
a great passer, you couldn't come up on him because
his first step was so quick, and Rodney Rodgers were
rotating and he goes to the corner and he pump fakes,
and as he pump fakes, he's like, welcome to.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
The parachute club.
Speaker 6 (41:58):
And we're like, you're talking during a shot and I'm
talking about he just fell through.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
It looked like the nets didn't even move, you know,
one of those things.
Speaker 6 (42:05):
But we would have got fined because we're kind of
giving each other five like did you see what Larry just.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Did to us?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Oh? You guys are celebrating him towrd ching Rodney Rogers.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Yes, bad, But Larry Bird made a lot of people
do that.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
Look, go look on YouTube against the Hawks game when
he's calling shots with his left hand.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
That whole bench should have got fined because they did.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
If they did get fined, Oh good.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Good, because that's a bad president.
Speaker 6 (42:27):
I mean I would have gone to the locker room and
tried to fight my teammates like there's nothing I could do.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
And you guys are cheering.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Them, Well, you never you never did that when you
played against Jordan, or you're on the bench and Jordan
did something and you like turned your your guys and said,
oh my god, and give me fined.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I put I put my shirt over like that act
like let him know later.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
One time, Jordan, we were in the playoffs. Jordan Parks
is Ferrari inside the building, which you shouldn't be able
to do. He's smoking a cigar before the game, which
I mean, you can do whatever you want. And we're
the lowly bullets and uh, Jawan and I are getting
off the bus and Jawan's very close with him, and
he's like Juan web who's guarding me tonight And Calbert
(43:09):
Cheney was behind us and we both looked and dead
like that. And that was the one time our crians
about how I left the teammate hanging because Jordan had
fifty five on us that night and beat.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
The tea poor Calvert Cheney.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Yeah he's the man.
Speaker 6 (43:24):
Though, but yeah, hey, is you dealing with Jordan and Kobe.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
You're gonna have to take You're gonna have to take
some ails man.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, but there was that same like tenseness that like
or they probably were like, Okay, who's who's gonna get
take a beating? You know, tell me and then you
guys are like pointing at Calbird Cheney there.
Speaker 6 (43:43):
That's exactly what we left him hanging down like as
a teammate and a captain. That's the one thing our
crians that like because we both are like, hey, this guy,
leave us alone.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
But Kobe didn't do that.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
No, Kobe didn't do that.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
But I had a teammate and now a coach in
Doug Christie that very honestly he's the man. Because Kobe
would score a shot after shot, Doug would play it correctly,
hand in his face. I saw him tap Kobe on
his head before and things like that. It didn't stop him.
It didn't stop him, and after the game, you know
(44:17):
him look at himself in the mirror like I did
all I could do. When he get forty four and
I'm ready for tomorrow. You know, you gotta have you
gotta have some big nuggets to do that, and teammates
that that do their job knowing that it's it's an
uphill battle.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Man.
Speaker 6 (44:30):
It's so great playing with guys with that commitment because
it makes you commit that much more.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
You can't tap Kobe on his forehead on the.
Speaker 6 (44:39):
Jump shot, oh yeah, a lot of it. Oh yeah,
you know how guys tap you on the head?
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, I know that.
Speaker 6 (44:43):
Oh yeah, no, yeah, on the forehead, on the shot
on the forehead, Oh yeah, on the forehead.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Damn, that would piss me off.
Speaker 6 (44:50):
Yeah, a little man stealers and you know all that stuff, Yeah,
going in your ear.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
You gotta try anything.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
You didn't do that though, I think against the.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
King, I pushed and you know, try stuff, but it
didn't work. It didn't work. Didn't work.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
It doesn't seem like a Keen would get agitated with anything.
Speaker 6 (45:10):
No, no, And you're hoping one guy, like whether he
makes the shot or misses the shot, you're hoping he
misses it, it starts to complain, and then you've done
your job because at least he's thinking about something else
while trying to destroy me.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
I can't imagine somebody tapping Michael Jordan on the head.
Even Kobe, I can't imagine that.
Speaker 6 (45:27):
I want to, you know what, I couldn't either, But
I'm I've played with some guys that I think would
like a Vernon Max.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
No, yeah, Vernon Vernon and Albert Alvin Robertson seemed to
be the craziest guys that Like, there have been crazy guys,
but those are two guys that might be on the
Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (45:47):
Yeah, And you know what, You're just so right And
what's so great about guys like that. I think people
think that, you know, and I'm sure Draymond must do this,
but I think people think that they're a distraction. And really,
what it is is coming because we needed what Vernon
Maxwell had in Sacramento our first year. Jay Will White
Chocolate needed that because if he gets that every day
(46:09):
in practice and you get tired, almost like if your
big brother, then you understand when these other guys do it,
it's nothing because you're getting you know abused all the time,
and so those guys make locker rooms better because they
do set an expectation where you have to be more
accountable because you know, this guy over here is crazy,
giving it his own.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Always great to catch up with him.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
Thank you, Chel, Thank you, looking forward to seeing you
in A'm Saylor's movie Baby.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Thank you, Bunny and so see web
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio. We make way for Mike Florio, Pro Football
Talk Live co host. You can see it Monday through
Friday prior to this show on Peacock and the author
of Father of Mine, Son of Mine, available in e
book form on Amazon for ninety nine cents. Mike, your
(00:21):
thoughts on Jim irsay?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
He was one of kinds. Dan and Chris and I
were trying to find any other owner over the years
that was as overwhelmingly authentic in all ways. He said
what he believed. He did so many good things without
seeking any type of publicity. Tony Dungee told us a
(00:44):
great story earlier today about how when Tony was the
coach in his first year in two thousand and two,
his dad would come to the home games and Jim said, well,
just have him fly on the plane to the road game.
So in two thousand and three, every road game Tony's
with his dad, and his dad passed after that. Just
a little gesture like that, just caring about other people.
And he was gregarious, he was different, he was himself.
(01:08):
He helped address the stigma as relates to mental health.
He was very adamant about that. I just think that
he was one of a kind. He cared about his team,
he cared about his players. You never hear any Colts
players complain about the way they were treated by Jim Mersy.
So the league is lesser for him, and I'm glad
you read that quote. He was the only one who
(01:29):
was willing to break ranks and say what needed to
be said, and what he said in October twenty twenty
two needed to be said, and I think it contributed
to the groundswell to make change. So Commanders fans should
be feeling very, very grateful, and they should have a
special place in their own hearts for Jim irsay, because
without that, I don't know what happens. Maybe it would
(01:50):
have happened anyway, but you have to respect that he
was willing to step aside from the club and say
what needed to be said.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Seemed to be a groundswell late yesterday that you had
Jason Kelcey, former Eagles center and he goes to the
owners meetings and he is a lobbyist, basically trying to
get the tush push to stay in the NFL. I
don't know what kind of impact he had, but it
felt like he did have an impact here, Mike, because
(02:17):
I think the NFL was doing their damnedest to get
rid of this play and.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I don't think they're going to stop Dan twenty two
to ten the final vote. That means they only need
to get two teams to change their position between now
and next March if they try it again. And it's
clear that the league is the one that was behind this.
We reported yesterday that they basically encouraged the Packers to
(02:42):
be the ones to make the proposal. They have their
own system for proposing rule changes. It's very odd to me,
and they did it with two different proposals this year,
the tush pushban and the playoff seating that was submitted
by the Lions. Rod Wood, the president of the team, said,
they came to us and said, hey, how would you
like to partner on this? Well, sure didn't seem like
a partnership. It seemed like it was the Lions.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So it's just a.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Strange way of doing business. And the bottom line, I
think the commissioner wants both of those things, and he's close.
Two teams need to have their arm twisted sufficiently to
go from the yes to the no. As it relates
to the tush push. So I don't think this is
over and it's unfortunate because look, they created the atmosphere
(03:29):
where this play was allowed to emerge by changing the
rules against pushing the runner in two thousand and six
and allowing it. And you can make whatever case you
want to make, but I think at the end of
the day, it just comes off as we don't like
the fact that the Eagles have cracked the code and
no one else can crack it, so we're going to
get rid of it. And it makes it hard, I think,
(03:50):
to sell to the average person because it just feels
like kind of a petty and small attack on what
the Eagles have perfected.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
If this is Tampa Bay, do we care about this?
It's the Eagles and they're winning, and they're winning a
Super Bowl, and I just wonder is it the play
or is it the team with the play.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I think that it's a confluence of events that have
led to where we now are. It's the combination of
the play is very effective. The Eagles are highly successful.
Dan I believe the catalyst for this, and there's evidence
to back it up. Mike Pereira, the Fox Rules analyst,
formerly the VP of Officiating. He said in the days
(04:36):
after the NFC Championship that that ugly exchange we saw
with the Commanders jumping offside repeatedly to the point where
the referee, Sean Hockyley had to warn the Commanders, if
you do it again, we're going to award a touchdown
to the Eagle, something that's never been done in the
history of the league. A touchdown awarded for what they
call a palpably unfair act. I think someone saw that,
possibly the guy whose signature is on every football, and said,
(04:59):
we got to get rid of this thing. We can't
have this. And it's a bunch of different things that
came together. And the problem is they shouldn't nip this
in the bud when it first started. They should have realized, no, no, no,
we never meant by changing the world to will allow
pushing the runner, that you're gonna build it into your
playbook and you're gonna weaponize it, and you're gonna create
this play that doesn't look like a football play. But
(05:19):
they waited too long, and now it looks like an
attack on the Eagles, and when they try to give justifications,
it's almost Keystone Cops well it's a safety risk. Okay,
shows the data. Well we don't have any data. Well
it could be a safety risk. Well what does that mean. Well,
it doesn't look like a football play. And they're moving
the goalposts around literally on this thing, and it just
(05:40):
it's a bad look. It's a very bad look for
the league. And I think that every team out there
they have two challenges now, one come up with a way
to do it. Two, come up a way to stop it.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
When we were in Green Bay for the draft and
I pressed Matt Lafleur, I said, did the league, you know,
instruct you? And he said, well, we were nudged. We
were nudged they you know, they needed to have a team.
So hey, we want you to be the sacrificial lamb.
Put your name to it, just like the Lions with
(06:13):
the playoff seating. So yeah, I mean, you know, coach
told us that that the league nudged them in so
many words.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, and that just it's odd. And why would you
pick the Packers is the team to do it? They
lost to the Eagles twice last year. It reeks of
sour grapes if they do it. Pick a team from
the AFC. The Bills would have been the perfect team
to get behind this, literally because they do it too,
and they do it well. Now, the original proposal didn't
affect the way the Bills do it because they always
(06:43):
do a delayed push. The first proposal targeted immediate push,
and that would have opened Pandora's box of inconsistency and
cries of rigging. Can you imagine Dan if the Eagles
had scored a touchdown at the goal line in a
playoff game and a flag comes out out because someone
in black and white stripes thought it was immediate and
(07:05):
maybe it wasn't They already have enough fans saying the
fixes in. That would have been a nightmare. So they
backed up and they said, well, let's just come up
with a general band. But at the end of the day,
at the end of the day, there's still two thirds
of the league that wants to get rid of it.
It's only because the league requires a seventy five percent
super majority to change the rules that it stayed. There
(07:27):
is something to be said for the fact that twenty
two teams want to get rid of it, and I
think that that's going to embolden the commissioner to work
the back channels, make a deal, maybe make a little
bit of a threat. We've seen retribution in the past
for teams that oppose things the commissioner wanted. And I
know that that you know, Oh, you're not supposed to
say those things, but it's true. It's true, we've seen it.
(07:48):
I know teams believe they've been targeted for unfavorable scheduling
or multiple short week games because they were against flexing
of Thursday night football. That happened a couple of years ago.
So I don't think this is over and by next year, Dan,
don't be surprised if there's safety data to support the position.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Talking to Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk Live co host
also contributor to NBC Football Night in America, the Olympic
flag football initiative is going strong thanks to the NFL.
Help me understand how many NFL players will actually be
on the US Olympic roster for flag football.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, they announced the US men's team for the twenty
twenty five competitions earlier this week and there were twelve
players and six Ordnates. But for the Olympics, it's a
five on five flag football with ten players on the team.
I don't know how many ordinates. The proposal that became
a final resolution this week allows for one player maximum
per NFL team to be available for the Olympics, plus
(08:52):
their international Pathway Program player that they have. But the
main thing is the players who are the stars, the
names we know receivers really want to do this for
the most part, a lot of them. Okay, let they
go get the gold medal.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
But that roster made up of ten players can consist
of how many NFL players.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It can be ten, it can be ten, but only
one per team.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Okay, so the entire roster can be the NFL. They're
basically going to say to all the people who do
play play frank flag football professionally that we're going to
take away your roster spots.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
For the most.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Part, I think it's still early on and all we
know is one player per NFL team is eligible, and
there will be ten players on the US men's team.
It's going to be for the USA Football group to
determine who's on the team. And there's I don't know
how you're gonna do it. Are you gonna have tryouts,
are you gonna have competitions? Are you just going to
(09:51):
make a guess as to which NFL players will able
to be able to learn flag football, which is a
very different game than tackle football. How much time are
you going to have every rep that you put in
to practicing for the Olympic Flag football is another opportunity
to be injured.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
People say, oh, it's flag football, Well google Robert Edwards
if you want to know what can happen to somebody
who's not playing tackle football but still playing football. And
that's the risk that the NFL has persuaded the teams
to take. Under this guise of you're only putting one
player up for the Olympics, there's so many other ways
this can go. You know, there's no agreement between the
NFL and the union yet on how this is going
(10:30):
to work. The Union may have some things to say.
I can see a scenario where players can bargain with
their teams to sacrifice their right to play in the
Olympics if the team wants to pay them a little
more money. I mean, if I was an owner and
I have a star player who's on the fence, maybe
I get a clause in his next contract where he
waives his right to be part of the Olympic team.
(10:52):
And if I'm the player and I can get more
money by doing that, I'm all for it. But they haven't.
They haven't even begun to negotiate how this is going
to look. There's so much more work that needs to
be done. This is the beginning. It feels like the end.
No no, no, no no. There's so much that still
needs to be done over the next three years.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
The brock Pretty deal. Whenever there's a deal, a big deal,
I always go to Pro Football Talk. I go go
to your site because hey, you sort through all of this,
because agents will put out look at what I got
for my player, And I always go, all right, let
me see what Florio has found out. Tell me the
brock Pretty deal and is it good for? Is this
(11:34):
team friendly? Is it brock friendly? How do you kind
of gauge this?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I think at the end of the day, Dan, it's
a fair deal for both sides. That acknowledges the reality
that brock Party isn't a top five quarterback. And I
know that there are forty nine Ers fans who will
insist otherwise he's not a top five quarterback. He's not
a top ten quarterback. In my opinion, he's middle of
the pack, and there's no shame in being middle of
the pack in NFL quarterbacks. That means for the guy
who was the last pick in draft, there's only fifteen
(12:01):
guys on the planet who can play quarterback in the
NFL better than him, And the way this deal is
going to go, he'll make thirty eight million a year
for the next three years. The key date is April one,
twenty twenty seven. That's the deadline for the forty nine
ers to cut him before having fifty five million become
fully guaranteed in twenty twenty eight. So based on the
(12:23):
next two years, they'll make a decision as to whether
to be on the hook for fifty five million fully
guaranteed in what would be year four of the contract,
and they could get out of it after two years.
They'd still own twenty seven million dollars subject to offset,
but they can get out of this after two years
if the chariot turns into a pumpkin, so they have
some protection. That's always one of the key factors that's
(12:45):
never in the initial reporting. How long are the forty
nine ers truly committed. They're truly committed for two years,
they're gonna have to make a decision after year three
by April one, whether or not they want to be
on the hook for another fifty five million in twenty
twenty eight. But over six it's forty five million a year.
That's all that matters. New Money Average is a fiction
aimed at making the agents look better. Fifty three million
(13:07):
doesn't mean anything. What matters is it's a new six
year contract. He'll make forty one million this year instead
of five million, and it's a six year, forty five
million dollar deal.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Got better understanding on Aaron Rodgers' future or the Bengals
Trey Hendrickson Neither neither.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And look, the reality with Hendrickson is he's got some options,
he's got some leverage, he's got some cards to play.
But if he holds out of all the teams in
the NFL, Dan, you know this. The Bengals don't care.
They told Carson Palmer, you want to sit home on
the couch, watch him bowling and eating pork rynes, go
for it. We don't care. We don't have to pay you.
We'll pocket the money. Eight hundred and eighty eight thousand
(13:47):
a game. Trey Henderson gives up Mike Brown's like, fine,
put it with the rest. So they're not gonna blink,
They're not gonna bow here. The reality is how much
pressure is Joe Burrow gonna put on the Bengals to
do this? He started the effort around the Super Bowl.
He named four guys Jamar Chase t Higgins, Mikeasicki, and
Trey Hendrickson. And I think the Bengals stepped up to
(14:08):
the plate with three of them under pressure from Joe Burrow.
Will they do what they need to do to make
Trey Hendrickson happy? That remains to be seen. But there
isn't a whole lot he can do to force this
because if he stays home, they'll say, fine, we'll keep
your money. And with Rogers Ian O'Connor, who wrote the
biography last year, he was on with one of the
Pittsburgh radio stations, ninety three seven The Fan last week
and he thinks it'll happen during OTAs. I think it
(14:31):
makes sense for it to happen soon. And he's there
next week for OTAs. But remember this, when Brett Favre
showed up with the Vikings in two thousand, I remember
there was a schism in the Minnesota locker room between
the guys who wanted Brett Favro and the guys who
wanted Traveris Jackson. You know how long it took for
the schism.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
To be resolved?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
One practice the moment Aaron Rodgers shows up and starts
throwing passes that make a sound they've never heard before.
When it whizzes by their head, they'll say, okay, we
know why. You'll wait until whenever it was that Aaron
Rodgers decided to show up.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Your takeaway from the Brett Favre documentary, Well.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Look, and I think there's two different types of audience.
One the people who don't follow the NonStop drip drip
drip of NFL news. Like for me, there was nothing new.
I was looking for something new. There's nothing new there.
It's a nice summary of everything that's happened, but there
was nothing that made me say, well, I have to
go write a story for PFT with this quote, this development,
(15:30):
this thing. It's all stuff we already knew, but it's
all in one place. And I don't know, Dan, were
you surprised by anything that was in it? I wasn't.
I knew it all. And yeah, that that's the stuff
Brett Farv did or allegedly did. Gotta be careful, don't
want to get sued the stuff we know he did,
and this stuff he allegedly did.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Good to talk to you, Mike. Thanks you ch answer,
Mike Florio. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
foxsports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search
FSR to listen live.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We have a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(16:26):
sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together. I mean that says something, right, So
check us out. We like to get you involved too.
Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say,
I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure
(16:46):
to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports
Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific, and if you miss any
of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever
you get your podcasts, and of course on social media
that's Covino and.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Tom Pelisero NFL Network Insider. You didn't know you were
going to get that, did you, Tom?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
You know, the.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Verbal cadence, the speed, the number of words per second
is dead on Kevin Harlan. I grew up watching Kevin
Harlan calling Timberwolves games when they were absolutely awful from
about nineteen eighty nine to the mid nineties, and they'd
be down forty points and Kevin McHale will be sitting
next to Kevin eating popcorn on the air. The only
(17:30):
thing I would say with Kevin, you're a little in
the nose, Fritzy. I think you got to get it down.
It's a little more down here. When you do it,
you gotta be a little deeper in the throats. That's
the only critique I would have, but again, beautiful nine
out of ten.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Noted thank you all right, Okay, what happened yesterday late
in the morning and Jason Kelsey's role in keeping the
Tush Push in NFL vernacular.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
It's hard to say how many people were actually way
by anything that happened in the room. Dan, I would
tell you the people I talked to before the meeting
who told me we're going to vote to get rid
of the touch Push, they voted against it. The people
who told me were going to vote against this this band,
they voted against the band.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
But there was.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Certainly, you know, a compelling case. And you know, as
I said, because I'm sitting there right outside the room
and I see Jeffrey Lewie, a couple other Eagles officials
in Jason walking, and I said, to go, Jeffrey bringing
in the big guns. He goes, Absolutely, this was a
very you know, orchestrated plan for them to counter some
of the narratives that had been going around about you know,
(18:37):
did Jason Kelsey actually like running this play? Was it
actually a reason that he decided to, you know, stop
playing in the NFL. I'll tell you this. You know,
even though this did not pass. Twenty two out of
thirty two teams voted to ban it.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Twenty two.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
That's that's over two thirds of the teams in the
league voted to eliminate not just the touch push but
all push plays. In the end, it's twenty four. It's
a high bar. It's supposed to be a high bar.
You know they weren't able to pass it. You know
what role would Kelsey and Lurie actually play. I know
what the narratives are, I know what the quotes are
that are out there. I got the sense this was
(19:12):
always going to be close, but there was a sense
going into the meeting that they thought the people who
were proponents thought they were going to have the votes.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Ultimately they came up too short.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, because I don't think the commissioner tables this and
then brings it back without having the number of votes
needed to get rid of it that he clearly wants
to get rid of it if he has to nudge
the packers to say, put your name to this, that
you wanted out. And you know, if you're the packers,
you come off as you know, poor losers. Hey, you know,
(19:43):
we we get beat by them. Now, we don't want
it in the league. And the point that I brought
up earlier, if this is Carolina, does anybody care if
Carolina can run this successfully? I mean, let's be honest,
does anybody object to them doing this? If they were
extremely successful.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
If they're a five and twelve team. It's not the
national phenomenon. I'm not being asked to go on the
NBC Nightly News with wester Holt to talk about the
push push if it's not a run by a team
that just won the Super Bowl. It's just it's a
different it's a different conversation. But I would say this, Dan,
think about the number of health and safety related rules
that have passed over let's call it the last two decades.
(20:25):
If you watch a tape, forget the seventies and eighties,
you watch a game from the nineties, early two thousands,
it's completely different because of you know, the hits on
defensives receivers that you're not allowed to do now, where
you're allowed to hit the quarterback, all the things that
went into taking the crown of the helmet out of
the game, you know, trying to emphasize the spearing rules.
They're all health and safety related changes. This is and
(20:47):
I've covered the league over twenty years. This is the
first time that I can remember that you had the
Competition Committee strongly in favor of a health and safety
related ban on a play, that you had the medical committees,
that you had the medical people with the NFL all
saying this needs to be outlawed, and it did not pass.
But this was also the first time that a rule
(21:08):
was brought forth with health and safety related reasons to
do it where there was no injury data. So that's
the complicated part here is usually these health and safety rules,
it's like a rubber stamp because it's hey, we want
to make the game safer, we want to avoid lawsuits,
we want to avoid liability, all those things, but usually
have injury data to back it up. In this case,
(21:28):
what you're arguing is, hey, no injuries have occurred. It's
been run what one hundred and twenty times last year,
so it's been run maybe three hundred times in NFL history.
But the biomechanics, the posture, the amount of mass and
force this could lead to something dangerous that ultimately was
not a compelling enough reason to get the two extra votes.
Now we'll see the NFL is a big data gathering operation,
(21:50):
you know, whether it's from an injury perspective, from a
how many times is this run a success rate? All
those things are going to go into whether or not
this potentially comes up again in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah. Will, But I also I don't have a problem
if the league says we don't have health data to
get rid of this play. But unlike the kickoff, we
want to be proactive, not reactive to this. We want
to get out in front of this. It's just like,
you know, their player safety. I'm all for that, but
I also think, just like with an on side kick,
(22:21):
there's inherent danger. When you play football, you sign up
for this, and that's what I don't understand. With the
on side kick. I get, okay, but it's football now
you're kind of trying to bring it back. Now we
want to have a few more kickoffs coming back, like
it's either one or it's either this or nothing. Like
(22:42):
I don't think you can kind of go you know,
not many guys got hurt on kickoffs last year that
we thought, hey, how about we do this or the
on side kick, how about you kick from the thirty
four not the thirty five like, what are we doing well.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
With the brother The onside kick is a function of
the kickoff. Because of the alignment on the dynamic kickoff,
you can't run an onset kick from that formation. So, yes,
you eliminate all the element of surprise, which is that's
the baseline issue here. This is you know, realistically, there
were fifty on st kicks last year. Three got recovered.
That's six percent. The historic rates are like twelve percent.
(23:18):
So you're not thinking this is suddenly going to lead
to you know, twenty more recoveries. You're just hoping you
get a couple more. You see what happens here, But
without the element of surprise, it makes things really really difficult.
There's not a clear answer, you know, to go back
to the broader kickoff issue that was about you're trying to.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Reduce the space and speed.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
It's it's physics, is what it is.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
You're going.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Okay, last year they wanted the return rate to be
really low to make sure that the injury rate went down. Now, okay,
it seems like this is a positive change. Now let's
change the touchback rule. Let's try to generate more returns
and see if that continues to go forward. The NFL
generally does these things very incrementally to make sure that
(23:58):
it's not like the pass interference review disaster back in
twenty nineteen, where they passed the rule before they wrote
it and then nobody could enforce it and finally this
went out.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Forget it. We're just not gonna overturn anything.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
That's what they want to avoid on say kick though,
there's just there's not a clear answer here unless you
really seriously consider the thing that Philadelphia has been proposing
for the last probably five six years, which is a
fourth and whatever fourth and twenty let's call it alternative,
where it's one play, it's make it take it. That
(24:29):
would be a fundamental change of the game to some
people who think it's gimmicky. But ultimately, Dan, that might
be somewhere along the line where we end up.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Tom Petlserro, NFL Network Insider. You can see him on
the Insiders on the NFL Network. That's weeknights, it's seven Eastern.
Everybody's all excited about the Olympics. Everybody's ready to go.
They want their medals. I'm just curious the owner's reaction. Now,
they had to pass this, but they also have to
(24:57):
allow their players to be able to play or try
out on guessing, how does this work? If I'm an
owner and Patrick Mahomes goes man, I'd love to have
a gold medal. Well, I'd love to have another Super Bowl, Patrick,
So I don't want to risk you getting hurt. How
does this work and not hurt feelings?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Well, the I would say this, there's enthusiasm at every
level of this, from the stakeholders, from the league office
who see this as part of their global expansion plans,
to the teams that like the idea of again making
more money because if you can continue to increase international revenue,
that's only going to help the value your franchises. The players,
(25:37):
you know, for the most part, not everybody. There are
some guys who have said I'm not going to get
involved with that. I don't make money to play flag football.
But a lot of players are going to want to
do it here. But I would say the NFLPA also
has expressed, you know, enthusiasm for this, but they still
got to work out and some of these rules. There's
questions about injury protections and insurance and you know, even
(26:00):
though this is gonna happen in the early portion of
the twenty twenty eight games, and so it's gonna end
before training camps. There's still gonna be some players who go, wait,
I'm using my whole off time, my whole spring and
summer to get ready for this, and then I'm just
gonna PLoP down two days later and go into training camp.
So there's some questions there. You know, unions defend wages, benefits,
working conditions and all those things are subject to further
(26:23):
evaluation here. So those are gonna be ongoing conversations. They're
gonna actually have to come to an agreement. There's like
a round, Okay, we like this idea, we all want
to make more money. Let's work on this together. But
the details still have to be worked out in terms of,
you know, how the process works over the next few years.
And I asked this question to a bunch of the
people who've been involved in these conversations. You know, just
(26:43):
like every other Olympic sport, there's like different qualifying things,
and there are national teams, and you know, you have
this vision of Okay, the you know you might have
Let's say, you know, forget Team USA for a second,
because that's the team that's gonna have the most options.
But let's say your Korea and you've got hey, we
can get Kyler Murray, we get Kyle Hamilton, We're not
going to have him till twenty twenty eight. Well, you're
(27:03):
gonna have to qualify before that. And if the current
Korean national team isn't any good, those guys are gonna
get left out. So that stuff, from my understanding, really
starts next year and then heats up in twenty twenty seven.
So this is going to be kind of an ongoing
evolution in terms of what does this look like. Every
national body is going to approach this differently. I would
(27:24):
certainly anticipate USA football fully embraces this and wants all
the NFL players, even though you've got you know, the
current team USA quarterback saying, you know, I think I'm
better than Patrick Mahomes And I said that. So I
had Justin Jefferson come on The Insiders the other night
and I brought that up. I'm like, you got this
guy like, is there any doubt in your mind that
NFL players could be better than the current FLAG players?
He's like, well, many, you know, they know the game,
(27:46):
but you know, Patrick Mahomes like good luck, dudees like,
there's no way, there's no way you're getting that spot
from him.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Good to talk to you, Tom, Thanks for joining us
as always, Thanks for having me Dad. That's Tom Pelso
be sure to catch live edition of The Dan Patrick
Show week days at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio WAP. Chris Webber,
hall of Famer, joining us on the program. See web
How does that happen? You're up fourteen at home, three
(28:17):
minutes to go.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
It happens when you have a really special team.
Speaker 6 (28:21):
Uh. You know, first of all Haliburton when you look
what he did, and thee Smith, all the other guys.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
But please, let's not forget coach Carlisle.
Speaker 6 (28:31):
You know, he's a he's a great coach, and he's
coached guys like Jay Kidd.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
He's coached against the greatest players.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
He's played with the Celtics, by the way, so he
knows a little bit about offense. And to me, it
was just wearing you down. Some teams we give a
lot of credit for wearing you down with their defense.
And I played on teams whether Sacramento and others, where
we wear we wore you down with our offense as well,
and that means just keeping your foot on the pedal,
never looking up, and trusting your players. And you know
(29:00):
those last three minutes, I mean, wow, these are some
of the most exciting games I've seen a long time.
So it's great to be a fan and watch all
the excellences going on.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Why is it different playing in the garden than any
other place?
Speaker 6 (29:13):
Well, I would say the garden in Old La, Old La,
because you had stars like Jack and others that were
there and you would see. But I think it's because
it's not just about new stars. I think it's about
the fact that because those arenas are so old, you
know Kareem played there or you know you know that
(29:33):
I don't know Willie Allen or someone else was at
those games. And so as a player, you come in saying,
you know, I better give my best performance because this
is where the best performers are. How many times do
you get to perform in front of your heroes? And
so for me, New York was always special. And you know,
if I could send out a PBA alert because New
York is so cocky, I have a very close friend,
(29:56):
his name is Has. I won't give his full government name.
But anyone in New York please look out for Hogs
and just make sure you watch over him because he.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Was hitting me with being bong and all this other stuff.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
And I haven't heard from him in about sixteen hours,
so please look out for my manor house. But it's
so much fun, and part of that too, is sending
those crowds home quiet. It's no better feeling than any arena.
But you know LA and New York, when you do it,
you know you feel a little extra special.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Okay, but did you ever have conversations with celebrities? Did
you ever flirt with a celebrity in LA when you
were playing?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Never flirted.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
But if I saw, you know, someone that I wanted
to flirt with, or I raised my game, you know,
you want to play well and send them home with something.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
You know, so Jilly Marry is their court side. You
might you might want the ball a little more.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Oh yeah, and you know you might you know, shoot
your shot or dunk on someone a little harder and
mistakenly look at it.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
You know, you know it's not the weak. But oh,
I'm sorry, Did I just do that?
Speaker 6 (30:55):
You know, that's that type of thing I do remember
the best compliments I ever got was Jack looks before
the game and the playoffs in LA and you would
change right by him and I'm really focused and nervous
and getting ready to go, and he.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Says the calm before the storm.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
You were calm before the storm, and we blew LA
out that game. And I remember thinking he never should
have given me that compliment because I had to live
up to that in front of him.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
What's it like though, when everybody knows you're getting the
ball like you and the feeling of I don't Some guys,
you know, they run away from the ball, Others run
to the ball.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
I think that it's all about knowing your game. It's
really simple. Knowing that you have a move and a
counter move with its starting like that, it's really easy.
And then if you have great players around, it's easier
to trust. So I can only speak from my experience,
but knowing that I was gonna get double team late
in the game, I would be talking to Pager of
Lodi and them during the whole game, like, you see,
(31:58):
they're gonna come double me at this point. Later I
got you, And so it gives you freedom. The easiest
person to check on the court is a selfish person,
and so you have to make sure through your abilities
that you keep everyone on their toes. Just look at
a guy like Jokis. You know he wants the ball
late in the game, but he may not shoot seven
possessions in a row, but they're going to score seven
possessions in a row. So for me, the most important
(32:20):
thing is, yeah, can you score. But there are a
lot of guys we waited to the end to double
because they didn't have to acumen the pass or didn't
even know where other teammates were. And so to me,
it's how can you make a score happen if you're
a great player late in the game. And Lebron was
accused a lot for that, but he's one of the
best examples Magic as well of being able to take
(32:42):
a moment find it. Know that I can score, but
it may be easier to loosen you up by finding
a wide open Jr. Or someone in the corner or
Booby Gibson that hurt us in Detroit to kill you
a little bit better instead of being selfish.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, but we give Magic a hall pass and say
that's a positive Lebron. People viewed that that is a
negative that he didn't want to take the big shot
in those situations with Magic. It was like, look at
how unselfish he is.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
Yeah, no, you're right, Dan, But so let's separate the
first time he played against San Antonio. Let's separate you know,
when he was learning on that learning curve. But he
always played the right way. And so there was one
game I think in the Pistons game seven, I think
we're playing against them and we're, you know, trying to
go to the championship, and this guy scores.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Twenty four in a row, twenty five in a row.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
But Booby Gibson had a great game because he was
finding this guy in the corner. And then you wonder,
how does a guy like Nesmith, how does a guy
like Booby Gibson come out of nowhere? How does a
guy like Fisher Derek Fischer come out of nowhere and
do these things? So let's because Shaq trusted at one point,
it's because Lebron trusted. So yeah, that's that line in
the sand with Lebron. But when he was able and
(33:50):
found his voice, found his way on the court, he
still played the right way. And for me, he doesn't
get enough credit for that.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Did Lebron have forty three on you guys in that
game seven?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I know he had twenty four to twenty five straight and.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Oh he had forty had forty eight.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Thanks.
Speaker 6 (34:08):
I'm acar Rashii Wallason reminds him of that because that's
one of Rashid's biggest failures, or I won't even say that.
That's something that hurt Rashid the most, is a defensive
player that it was one guy on the floor that
we couldn't stop it. So yeah, whatever he did, he
hurt our feelings and he kept us from a championships.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Hurt your feelings. He's Chris Webber Hall of Famer. I
mentioned this earlier. We can't underestimate the impact of the
Dream Team in nineteen ninety two on the world because
here we are, what thirty three years later, and look
at the best players in the game. The players are
from outside the top five players. You can make an
argument are not American born shay Gil just getting the MVP.
(34:48):
You got Luca, you got Jannis. I mean, we can
go down the list there, but that impact of we
laughed at the rest of the world. We're crushing Barkley's
making fun of peopleocused on us whereas the world focused
on them, and how how do we get better as
a basketball country? And look at what that impact did
(35:11):
with the NBA.
Speaker 6 (35:13):
So you're right, that impact was great. I remember just
hearing about players like Sabonis or other players and really
not knowing until I got to play with great players
like Sharona's Marshalon this or or Paygerstoyakovich or Potapinco or others.
I think we did a great job in showing our
secrets and showing them you know that you can be
like Jordan at least you could dream like this, and
(35:35):
if you don't reach Jordan's ability, you can still be
pretty good if you watch him. And so I think
that we did a great job in exposing the game.
But I also think the way that the system was
set up. You know, Luca was professional at what fifteen,
So if he's professional at fifteen, comes to the NBA
with five years experience and playing against grown man, he's
going to have a.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Better trajectory.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
And so I think that the systems that we had
overseas and a lot of guys to play, especially the younger,
helped them advance a lot quicker. But our last seven
MVPs then were all foreigners so to speak, or people
from other places. And truthfully, Sean could have won last year,
and truthfully the year indeed won. You know, Yokis could
have won that, so you could have a full time
(36:16):
I really look at Yokis is missing the MVP. He
should have one more MVP. So I love the way
that the game is spread, but it comes back to skill,
skill skill, and hopefully in a set of fire under
a lot of the young kids to you know, be
the best that they could be. But I think the
game is going to always elevate no matter who's the best,
because guys around the world watched the best and we
become better after that.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
But you also look, and I'm sure you remember this,
but when Barkley won MVP, when Karl Malone won MVP,
everybody knew that Michael Jordan was the best player in
the game, right, Shay gilgis is getting the MVP, But
I think everybody recognizes Joker is still the best player
in the game. It just and yeah, I mean Sga
(36:59):
and Okaye had the best year and he's the best player.
But I don't know how players reacted when you know
Barkley played well for Phoenix, Carl played well for Utah.
You know, Michael, I don't think cared about the regular
season as much as he's gonna win a championship.
Speaker 6 (37:17):
Well, I also think there's fatigue. You know, there's jo
kids fatigue. Yeah, yeah, you know, you really think about it.
You can't have a co m VP. But how did
he not win the MVP? But then again with Shay,
I think I think too. I think it's the culture
of how we play. If we want to really be honest,
I think that you know, I love playing with players
that make everyone better, and so I think the days
(37:39):
of just scoring forty and being that guy like that's
that's not necessarily winning basketball, to be doubled in the
post and not getting anyone else involved. That's why we
love Jokics and maybe not other sinners. And so I
think the culture, at least from watching Doctors, at least
from watching Shi is that Shay gilges is that they're
(38:00):
always gonna try to make the right play, even if
it's being selfish four or five times in a row.
But watching them facilitate get other guys involved is so special.
That's why Holla Burton is special though, and I've always
known that even if he was drafted this Sacramento because
he gets everyone involved. And I think that that has
become the culture of the European player and as Americans
(38:24):
being the best scorer, you know, it's a little more
that you can add to that. And I think that
that's where the line of the sand is gonna come,
Like how how much better do you make your team?
And Shy's team would not be that good? Okay, see
when the gout the first round without him, and Denver
may not have made the playoffs without Jokis. And that's
what I like. The distinction in the MVP argument is
not that, oh look at the stats. If we really
(38:45):
take them away from their teams without them even scoring.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
They make their teams better.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
And I think that that shows what the most valuable
player is, not the most valuable score, but the most
valuable teammate.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
But you were on the college select team that beat
the dream too, right.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Oh yeah, we beat them, coach k how you doing.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Like it was real though? That was a real game,
right yeah?
Speaker 6 (39:10):
I mean it was it was a practice then, Like
you know, I'm sure that you've been around your heroes
and commentating or journalism and things when you first got
in the game, and if you really first remember those things,
just you know, there was no social media. Dominique Wilkins,
and you know I had him on the wall with
books and the Tonics, the different shoes, I had magic
(39:32):
every I knew everything about them that you could at
the time.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I watched all the Bloopers tapes.
Speaker 6 (39:36):
Remember that's all we could get was the Bloopers tapes
with the coach from Utah at the time, so access
was not here, and Frank Frank Laydon and I remember,
I remember being in a huddle and with literally with
tears in our eyes because we're eighteen twenty at this time.
I just come from the championship. We were losing at Duke,
and I'm playing with Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill and
(39:58):
all my friends and we're in a huddle like this
is a dream come true. None of us were thinking
about going to the league. You know what I mean,
This is the if I go back to the purest
of moments in sporting life, it had to be then,
you know.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Because it was okay.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
I couldn't believe how quick Bobby Hurley was and that
it transcended onto the court against Magic where he's taking
Magic and Stockton like, we didn't believe in ourselves like this.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
These were just our heroes. Barkley was my favorite player.
Speaker 6 (40:26):
So to go against Barkley and Patrick Ewing and a
dunk on them that was like the biggest thing in
the call home. And so we really played the hardest
that we could. We caught them sleeping, and Chuck Day,
being from me, tried and had a great relationship with him,
and I remember him patting us on the back like
good job. And you know, as a good coach you
want to use different things to centivize your team. And
(40:46):
we beat them, and for them to say last point,
it's so infuriating to hear him saying, well, Jordan's sat on
the bench. Jordan could have sat on the bench the
whole scrimmage. And you're saying, we still beat the All
Star team.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
We'll take that. And so I think any.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
Excuse for them is not giving the credit of how
great they were, and any great team thos you can
get caught slipping. One day, we caught them slipping and
the next day I do not remember us scoring one basket.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
That's how much.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
They wanted to pay us back, So if they didn't
beat us, then they wouldn't have been that mad that
next day because they kicked our ass.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Who was it?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Was it Rodney Rogers.
Speaker 6 (41:25):
Rodney Rogers. I don't know why he kept talking. He
was just always talking. His country guy is so strong.
And I remember Larry Bird because because he was my hero,
and I just remember watching him and we didn't realize
he was that tall.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
His back was hurting, you know, he kind of ran
with a little bit.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
Of a gait, but his movements because he was such
a great passer, you couldn't come up on him because
his first step was so quick, and Rodney Rodgers were
rotating and he goes to the corner and he pump fakes,
and as he pump fakes, he's like, welcome to.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
The parachute club.
Speaker 6 (41:58):
And we're like, you're talking during a shot and I'm
talking about he just fell through.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
It looked like the nets didn't even move, you know,
one of those things.
Speaker 6 (42:05):
But we would have got fined because we're kind of
giving each other five like did you see what Larry just.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Did to us?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Oh? You guys are celebrating him towrd ching Rodney Rogers.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Yes, bad, But Larry Bird made a lot of people
do that.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
Look, go look on YouTube against the Hawks game when
he's calling shots with his left hand.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
That whole bench should have got fined because they did.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
If they did get fined, Oh good.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Good, because that's a bad president.
Speaker 6 (42:27):
I mean I would have gone to the locker room and
tried to fight my teammates like there's nothing I could do.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
And you guys are cheering.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Them, Well, you never you never did that when you
played against Jordan, or you're on the bench and Jordan
did something and you like turned your your guys and said,
oh my god, and give me fined.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I put I put my shirt over like that act
like let him know later.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
One time, Jordan, we were in the playoffs. Jordan Parks
is Ferrari inside the building, which you shouldn't be able
to do. He's smoking a cigar before the game, which
I mean, you can do whatever you want. And we're
the lowly bullets and uh, Jawan and I are getting
off the bus and Jawan's very close with him, and
he's like Juan web who's guarding me tonight And Calbert
(43:09):
Cheney was behind us and we both looked and dead
like that. And that was the one time our crians
about how I left the teammate hanging because Jordan had
fifty five on us that night and beat.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
The tea poor Calvert Cheney.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Yeah he's the man.
Speaker 6 (43:24):
Though, but yeah, hey, is you dealing with Jordan and Kobe.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
You're gonna have to take You're gonna have to take
some ails man.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, but there was that same like tenseness that like
or they probably were like, Okay, who's who's gonna get
take a beating? You know, tell me and then you
guys are like pointing at Calbird Cheney there.
Speaker 6 (43:43):
That's exactly what we left him hanging down like as
a teammate and a captain. That's the one thing our
crians that like because we both are like, hey, this guy,
leave us alone.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
But Kobe didn't do that.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
No, Kobe didn't do that.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
But I had a teammate and now a coach in
Doug Christie that very honestly he's the man. Because Kobe
would score a shot after shot, Doug would play it correctly,
hand in his face. I saw him tap Kobe on
his head before and things like that. It didn't stop him.
It didn't stop him, and after the game, you know
(44:17):
him look at himself in the mirror like I did
all I could do. When he get forty four and
I'm ready for tomorrow. You know, you gotta have you
gotta have some big nuggets to do that, and teammates
that that do their job knowing that it's it's an
uphill battle.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Man.
Speaker 6 (44:30):
It's so great playing with guys with that commitment because
it makes you commit that much more.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
You can't tap Kobe on his forehead on the.
Speaker 6 (44:39):
Jump shot, oh yeah, a lot of it. Oh yeah,
you know how guys tap you on the head?
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, I know that.
Speaker 6 (44:43):
Oh yeah, no, yeah, on the forehead, on the shot
on the forehead, Oh yeah, on the forehead.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Damn, that would piss me off.
Speaker 6 (44:50):
Yeah, a little man stealers and you know all that stuff, Yeah,
going in your ear.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
You gotta try anything.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
You didn't do that though, I think against the.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
King, I pushed and you know, try stuff, but it
didn't work. It didn't work. Didn't work.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
It doesn't seem like a Keen would get agitated with anything.
Speaker 6 (45:10):
No, no, And you're hoping one guy, like whether he
makes the shot or misses the shot, you're hoping he
misses it, it starts to complain, and then you've done
your job because at least he's thinking about something else
while trying to destroy me.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
I can't imagine somebody tapping Michael Jordan on the head.
Even Kobe, I can't imagine that.
Speaker 6 (45:27):
I want to, you know what, I couldn't either, But
I'm I've played with some guys that I think would
like a Vernon Max.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
No, yeah, Vernon Vernon and Albert Alvin Robertson seemed to
be the craziest guys that Like, there have been crazy guys,
but those are two guys that might be on the
Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (45:47):
Yeah, And you know what, You're just so right And
what's so great about guys like that. I think people
think that, you know, and I'm sure Draymond must do this,
but I think people think that they're a distraction. And really,
what it is is coming because we needed what Vernon
Maxwell had in Sacramento our first year. Jay Will White
Chocolate needed that because if he gets that every day
(46:09):
in practice and you get tired, almost like if your
big brother, then you understand when these other guys do it,
it's nothing because you're getting you know abused all the time,
and so those guys make locker rooms better because they
do set an expectation where you have to be more
accountable because you know, this guy over here is crazy,
giving it his own.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Always great to catch up with him.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
Thank you, Chel, Thank you, looking forward to seeing you
in A'm Saylor's movie Baby.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Thank you, Bunny and so see web
Hosts And Creators
Todd "Fritzy" Fritz
Dan Patrick
Patrick "Seton" O'Connor
Paul Pabst
Marvin Prince
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