June 24, 2025 • 41 mins
DP reacts to the Celtics trading Jrue Holiday. Yahoo Sports Senior NBA writer Vincent Goodwill explains why Kevin Durant chose Houston and shares why Victor Wembanyama could be the best player in the sport sooner rather than later. Orthopedic surgeon Dr. Mark Adickes breaks down the sports Achilles injury epidemic and gives preventative methods for young athletes to try to help avoid them.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Big Day in Oklahoma City thunder parade today. They even
sent out a notice. They gave you parade etiquette. What
to do, what to bring hydrate, make sure that you
don't lose sight of your kids, biggest, bring a snack.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
They gave you etiquette.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, they haven't had a parade out there, at least
not a professional parade, I don't think. But they gave
you some tips on how to enjoy the parade. I think,
what's going to happen?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Now?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
There's this rush to is okay See one of the
great teams of all time? And the answer is no,
they're not. They had a great regular season, but you
were pushed to seven games by Denver and pushed to
seven games by Indiana. Great teams don't get pushed to
seven games, not twice in a playoff series. Now, that
(00:54):
doesn't mean that they're not in the hall of very
good teams. I think, what's going to happen? This will
work in reverse. It might be two or three years
from now when we look back at Oka See and say,
you know what, they were a great team, Because we're
going to see what's going to happen in the next
couple of years.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Now, that's not fair to them.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I know Oklahoma City thunder fans get upset when we
don't crown them and then praise them. Well, we crown them.
We have praised them, But don't look for this. You
know the fast pass to go to great teams of
all time? You're not oka see right now is a
one hit wonder and it's a big hit. But let's
(01:36):
see what you do. What do you add to your
catalog that will determine greatness? You know those standalone teams,
There've been standalone teams. They won that one time. It's
really hard to repeat. And that's what we have to
factor in. That's why we can say, well it's parody,
but trying to sustain greatness.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
That's why dynasties are rare for a reason.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Remember the Celtics were taken over the sport and then
all of a sudden they're not. Jason Tatum goes down.
Who knows if he's going to play this next season.
Go back to twenty fourteen Seattle Seahawks. Oh my god,
that defense, young, intimidating, dominant, young quarterback Pete Carroll.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Your head coach, that dynasty never materialized.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okac is talented, Sga is the star, Jalen Williams, Chad
Holmgren kind of in the on deck circle. Dynasties are
not just about being young and good. It's about evolving,
it's about enduring. It's about delivering again and again and again. Okay, see,
just enjoyed the parade. Enjoy the title.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You earned it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
But greatness isn't handed out at a parade. You gotta
earn it every single week, every single season, every single
day you got a banner, getting that second banner is
going to be even tougher. And this is where we
sometimes forget greatness. You know, Jordan never went to a
(03:04):
Game seven. That's brought up all the time, but that's
important to remember. He went against good teams Utah Jazz.
They won sixty games. It felt like every year they
were a really good team. I thought that Seattle SuperSonics
team was as talented as any team I'd seen in
a long time. But they they won when they needed
(03:25):
to win. They didn't need to get to a Game seven.
You were on the ropes. You could have lost to
Denver and you could have lost to the Pacers. If
Halliburton stays healthy, we have a different outcome in my opinion.
But okay, see you want it. And Shay Gilgis was
a wonderful player. Now we want to have him. We
want to put him into the Kobe category or Jordan
(03:48):
as a scorer.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I know. We want to do it. We want this
immedia seed.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Instead of saying, how about just let this play out
a little bit, there's nothing wrong with, you know, tapping
the brake on this. You had a wonderful season. Let's
don't make it more than what it was. A wonderful season.
Enjoy the parade. I can't wait till Opening night. You celebrate.
You have a banner, championship rings, You've earned every bit
(04:15):
of that. But let's be fair. Put it in context.
You were pushed to seven games by an Indiana team
that was the biggest underdog in the last twenty five years.
In the NBA Finals. You were pushed to seven games
by a Denver team that fired its head coach.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Two weeks before the postseason.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Put it in context, and in two or three years
from now, we may look back and go, you know what,
we miss that? Or Okay, they won their one title,
all right, we'll come up with a poll question here, Seaton,
you got one for hour one.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yeah, I think I do. That's a topic that we
were all kicking around before the show. But there's been
a bunch of achilles tears coincidence or is there a reason?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
All right, we.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Reached out to a Harvard educated orthopedic surgeon who has
been on the show before, former Offensive lineman doctor Mark Addocks,
and he's going to join us a little bit later
on because you start to think about it, Okay, Tatum
Halliburton and Dame Achilles tears. Kevin Durant with achilles tears.
(05:28):
I'm trying to remember Isaiah Thomas tore his achilles late
in his career.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But I'm trying to remember growing up in.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
The sixties or the seventies, if anybody tore their achilles
in the NBA. Now you can say today's athlete is
so much better. Absolutely, but you would think, I mean,
Aaron Rodgers is not athletic anymore. He tore his achilles.
Dan Marino not athletic. He tore his achilles just going
(05:58):
back to pass. Nobody hit him. So that's why I'm
curious about this and the surgery by the way. Haliburton
had surgery in New York yesterday. It was successful. It's
always successful. But I don't know when he's coming back.
That really affects the East Tatum. I don't know when
he's coming back. But Haliburton said, Hey, if I had
(06:21):
to do it all over again, I would have done
it the same way.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I don't think I would do it the same way.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
If I knew that I was going to tear my
achilles and it's going to impact next season for my team,
I probably would have said, you know, maybe use me sparingly.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yes, Marvin, So if.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
You knew you were going to lose, would you still
do it?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
If I knew I was going to lose, well, okay,
I don't want to impact my team next.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Year if you know you're going to blow out your achilles.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
So he gets to Game seven, all of a sudd udden,
he's made a couple of moves and he goes, hey
take me out now. In the moment, everybody's gonna crucify.
But if if we know what the end result is
going to be, then of course I'm not gonna blow
out my achilles in a game we're gonna lose, or
I can't have an impact on and it's gonna impact
(07:20):
my team next year?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah yeah, pulm all right.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
To put this in perspective, we're gonna have to go
back to Kurt Shilling and four we discuss this on
this show a zillion years ago. If Tyre's Halliburton on
going into Game seven can sign up for I'm gonna
play seven minutes, play well, tear my achilles and be
out for next year, and we're gonna win a title.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Oh well, win a title.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
Well, that's where it's an actual discussion. Would you sign
on a piece of paper to lose your entire next season?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Is my team going to need me?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
You're gonna play.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
He's certainly playing seven minutes, so you're gonna this is
based off my teammates.
Speaker 6 (07:56):
Or you roll the dice and whatever happens in game
seven happens if you don't sign that piece of paper.
We asked Chilling that on this air. He said he'd
be glad to with his ankle thing.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, but I don't I don't know what he was
risking with that ankle, other than that ankle looked terrible,
But I don't know if he was risking his career
Haliburton with his achilles, you're never the same. I mean,
you can pretend that you are. I'm back and better
than ever. It's like micro fracture surgery with your knee.
(08:30):
I had that, you know, Amari Stodommeyer. You know a
lot of NBA players have had it. You don't come
back from it. There's certain injuries where okay, you're going
to be. This is as good as you're going to be.
I think we'd come pretty far with the achilles. But
if you said I'm signing up for playing seven minutes,
I'm blowing out my achilles. We're going to go win
the title, I'd say, why don't you guys go win
(08:52):
the title. I'm gonna sit here and watch, and then
I'll be here next year to play with you.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yes, tud I'd be.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
Concerned, and I think most athletes would be. I may
never get a chance to play for a title a
game seven. This could be my only chance an even
if I'm going to run the risk of not being
able to play next year, how could you not be
part of that?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
If you're not a huge.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Party, you're going to sign up for seven minutes. Seven
minutes you got on the court and played.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Some small factor whatever.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You but you were on the court for your championship
game next year.
Speaker 8 (09:22):
Yeah you may.
Speaker 7 (09:24):
You may never be able to play again in a
championship game.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Look at damn Marina there.
Speaker 7 (09:28):
You guys would get one chance and then after that
you're done forever, not even snipping a chance to play
for a ring.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I think you got to do it.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I don't want to be out there for seven minutes
knowing that I'm going to be into surgery in a
couple of days and out for the next season. My
teammates are going to win that title, but they're probably not. Actually,
they're unlikely to because of the odds with you being out.
Oklahoma said he would be an overwhelming favorite that game,
so that's the risk.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Well, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
They were an overwhelming favorite every single game, and they
were favored by nine one and a half in the
championship game. It didn't matter about Halliburton. They were favored
by nine and a half. Yes, Marmu, but.
Speaker 9 (10:06):
Halliburton would be a He'd be in a Willis Reed
type spot if he came out there and needed the
exact same thing. Started out hot and the rest of
his team Nemhart, Nate Smith, whoever took him home, he
would still be looked at as a as a legend.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, but what happened to Willis Reid after that game?
What happened next next season? Does anybody remember when Willis
came out and only played a few minutes, hit a
couple of buckets, See he was done. Does anybody remember
what his season was like the following No, they don't.
Maybe he wasn't even available. I mean, I know that
he had knee surgery, probably later in his career, probably
(10:43):
didn't play much longer after that. But here's Haliburton, who's young.
I would not I would not go if I knew
that I was going to be out next season. And
it's I know, it's a crazy hypothetical because if you
go into the game and you're going to say to
Rick carlyinle Hey, if I go out there, I'm going
(11:04):
to give you seven minutes, I'm going to hit three
threes and I'm going to blow up my achilles.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
What would Rick Carlile do if he knew that?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Halliburton says, Look, it feels like I'm going to blow
up my achilles. Rick Carlile was going to say to Halliburton,
you tell me what you want to do. But if
I knew I was going to blow it out and
we were going to go on and win, But would
you win if I'm only playing seven minutes?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, Pong, Willis reed.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Going back to the seventy three finals, he came out
and became the hero. He played one more season in
the NBA nineteen games and then retired due to injury.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
No, the game was nineteen seventy.
Speaker 6 (11:49):
Okay, I'm sorry, seventy Oh so nineteen seventy. He was
the MVP that year. He played in those playoffs. He
came back and was still a good player for a
couple more years.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Okay, yeah, he got the MVP in the finals, but
it should have been Walt Frasier's. But it was in
You know, he was very inspirational. There absolutely stat of
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(12:19):
Get a free estimate today. Huh oh, better get Maco,
all right, Seaton, So what was the question for the
first hour.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Is it just a coincidence or is there a reason
for all of these Achilles injuries?
Speaker 10 (12:31):
Mm?
Speaker 5 (12:32):
Okay, yeah, I think it was. I don't know if
it must have been last week. I would imagine maybe
the week before we did a whole topic about should
Tyrese Halliburton sit to throw off Oklahoma City or they're
prepared for him, why don't you just sit rest it?
And uh, you know, maybe that would actually play into
the Piezer's hands better.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Well, I wondered if it would it would make him
stronger if you sat him out the second half of
that game they got blown out, and then the following game.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
Yeah, I think it was do you sit out game six?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
For game seven.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
If I knew, If I knew that he would be
healthier and you were playing at home, so you were
going to get everything the Pacers had. If you're confident
the Pacers can win the game at home, get to
a game seven, and then Halliburton is healthier, then yes.
But I said I would have sat him out in
(13:27):
the second half of game five when you're getting smoked.
I would have had him sit out and then just
but once again, former NBA players said if that was
the regular season, you're missing at least a week, if
not longer with that injury. Haliburton rolled the dice. Indiana
rolled the dice. Rick Carlisle rolled the dice. So nobody
(13:49):
can be upset about this. Everybody, I think, knew what
was at stake here, and Haliburton tried and sent out
a tweet, a lengthy tweet. You know, you know he
talks about the mental aspect of this. You know, that's
what happens with injuries. Like you can get hurt and
then you have surgery. Then the depression sets in when
(14:11):
you're alone, when you're doing rehab and you're not able
to shoot. There's nothing fun going on and it's just you.
Now you'll have a physical therapist there. But that's what
he's talking about, like the mental hurdle that he's going
to have to overcome. That's the hard part with injuries,
in my opinion, and as many injuries as I've had,
(14:31):
it's when you're going to pet and you're going god
or you're breaking through scar tissue and you're like and
you know, it feels like the next day is the
same and the next day is the same, and then
all of a sudden, you get this little glimmer of
hope that hey don't need your crutches, or hey you
don't need percoset, Hey you don't need to ice it.
(14:53):
Everything like just little things like that. Tatum's going through
that right now, Dame and down Halliburton. But the coincid
dental part of this, man, I don't buy that. Just
feels like there's something different. These are all marquee players.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yes, Marmon.
Speaker 9 (15:15):
I feel bad for the Pacers from this standpoint. They're
going back into irrelevancy after such a great two months
because next year, where you're going into the season, no
one's gonna be talking about the Pacers because there's no
Halliburton and so they're just gonna go back into being
the middle of the pack team in the East until
he comes back. So that hurts them as far as notoriety.
(15:35):
They were trying to build a star and now they
don't have him.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
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Speaker 3 (15:50):
Hi, this is Jay.
Speaker 11 (15:51):
I'm the producer of the Paul and TONI Fusco Show.
Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
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Speaker 4 (16:05):
The hell are you doing in our studio?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Get him?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
PAULI ignore that fool.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
Listen to the Pauline Tony Fusco Show on the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
He's still moving.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Vincent Goodwill Junior, the third y'all Who's Sports Senior NBA writer,
host of the Good Word podcast on y'all Who's Sports
Ball Don't Lie in Serious x M NBA host and
he joins us after doing a deep dive on Kevin
Durant going to the Rockets. Why is Kevin Durant on
the Rockets?
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Does he wants to be?
Speaker 12 (16:42):
I think that's the easy explanation to say that is
because clearly, amongst the team that he listed, the Rockets
where the team that looks to be a Kevin Durant
away with the young talent, the coaching, the pedigree from
being a real threat in the Western Conference, Like Aman
Thompson is real and an alparin Shingoon. I don't know
(17:05):
how he fits in this iteration with Kevin Durant, but
he's a talented player. Javari Smith like, they have so
many young pieces and still so many young unearthed pieces
yet to be explored that you add KD there. If
he is a reasonable semblance of what he's been, they're
a real threat in the Western Conference next season.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
How does Phoenix not get Thompson?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Reed Shepherd or like it felt like the Rockets were like,
wait a minute, who do you want this trade?
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Sure will do that.
Speaker 12 (17:36):
That is the art of negotiation, Dan, That is where
the player sometimes controls exactly what iteration appears for him
because he wants to go to a team that still
has enough place Like, look, Thompson's going to be a
non starter. And what works against Phoenix here is that
Kevin Durant is thirty six years old and the max
he can sign for an extension is going to be
(17:58):
two years. Dan, we don't have a president for a
player who's had a Liz Frank. Remember that the Liszt
Frank is what got Bill Walton and Achilles injury which
is what Tyre's Halliburton at and an MCL. People forget
he had an MCL his first full year or second
full year in Brooklyn.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
There's no president for.
Speaker 12 (18:18):
The long jevity of these old guys being able to
hang around and play at a championship level. So you
do have to find a way to mitigate some of
the risks. Like I know, the numbers look great on paper,
fifty to forty ninety across the board, but it looks
different Dan, if you go look at Kevin Durant in
twenty fourteen when before his first real injury, when he
(18:41):
put up fifty against against the Golden State Warriors, he
looks so fluid that athleticism popped off the page. Now
he's a guy who's going to be thirty seven years old,
and once again, there's no template for this. We don't
have any president for this, so we don't know what
this is going to look like or what it's supposed
to look like.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I'm going to ask you the question that you ask
in your column. Is this his last stomp or just
his next stop?
Speaker 12 (19:08):
Well, Dan, it's hard to say, because I thought Brooklyn
was going to be the last stop. I thought Phoenix
was going to be the last stop. So I'm not
going to boxing Kevin Durant. I would just say it
feels more likely. I don't know if Kevin Durant wants
to be Lebron James playing until he's forty two, forty three,
fifty five years old to claim every record or whatever
it is. For this mythical argument, I think Kevin Durant's
(19:31):
going to play as long as his body tells him
that he can play, and he can play meaningful basketball.
You can only judge these guys two years at a
time because that's the length of their contracts.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
These thos going to their.
Speaker 12 (19:41):
Forties, Dan, they need to be like sitting up somewhere
next to you, reminiscent about the good times them. Need
to be out there chasing around these forty old, least
twenty five year olds.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
What's their problem?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
The Achilles injuries, coincidence or something more to.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
It, maybe a little bit of both.
Speaker 12 (19:58):
I think what we cannot quantify, Dan, is the amount
of miles that these players have on their bodies well
before they get to the NBA. We think of their
old dometers starting once they get to the league.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
That's not the case.
Speaker 12 (20:11):
At all when you're playing AAU basketball all those games today,
the personal training. And here's the other thing, this is
the age of specialization. These guys aren't playing football, baseball, track,
all these other things to work different muscles. They're playing
one sport and it's starting that and it's starting that
mile trajectory really really early. I don't know how to
(20:31):
do that. I do know this, the next time someone
has a calf injury late in the season, sit the
ass down period.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yes, but we said that. I said it last week.
I said, you know, you're not careful, you're going to
tear your achilles. And we've seen this with Durant, We've
seen this with Dame, We've seen this with Tatum. I
don't know, it just feels like there's something else.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Now.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Granted Aaron Rodgers wasn't doing anything, just back to pass.
Dan Marino when he tore is just going back to pass.
So I it's not all these are incredible athletes and
they're cutting in you know, all the mileage on there.
It's it's weird, you know that it can happen to
a quarterback just going back to pass.
Speaker 12 (21:14):
I mean, here's the thing, something's always going to be
hurting on you as an athlete, and usually it's around
your calf, or it's ten Denii's, or it's something that
you're used to managing.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 12 (21:26):
Den Marino tour here is in what ninety three if
I remember correctly, or ninety four, so he's like ten
years into his career. That's not necessarily common. Dame Lillard,
that's an old man injury for him. Isaiah Thomas, that's
an old man injury. Dominque Wilkins, old man injury. These
other guys, it's not old. Tyrese Haliburton is some you know,
(21:46):
explosive athlete that's jumping around. But when you have a
calf injury, remember Luka Doncic had a calf injury in
Dallas that we kind of wonder, Okay, is he in
good enough shape? And all these other type of things.
All these injuries aren't created equal, they aren't birth by
the same things, but they do produce the same risk,
and we have to look at them like, this is
a risk, especially when you're playing one hundred games into
(22:08):
a season and Dan, the game is moving so fast.
That's what you gotta be careful.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Talking to Vincent Goodwill He is a Yahu Sports senior
NBA writers. Latest article has to do with Kevin Durant
with the Rockets. I'm curious about the Spurs if they're
taking Dylan Harper, so that backcourt's pretty crowded. So I
got the Rookie of the Year, I got dearon Fox,
and it feels like somebody is not going to be
(22:34):
long for San Antonio. What are the Spurs gonna do?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Well?
Speaker 12 (22:39):
Talking to people around the league, the Spurs are the
team that they're like, Okay, keep an eye on them,
because the Spurs like to keep things close to the best.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
They're not going to go out and telegraph their moves.
Speaker 12 (22:48):
Remember, we didn't see the darn Fox trade happening like
they already they already got a young guard there and
then he added another one, right, so I wouldn't be surprised.
Like there have been instances where I don't know if
you remember this stand the Phoenix Sons of ninety seven
had Kevin Johnson, a young Steve Nash and Jason Kidd
(23:09):
and they wound up working out that you know, kJ
was a little bit older, Steve Nash was a little
bit unfounded at the time, and you kind of let
these things work themselves out.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
You take the best player available. Like I don't.
Speaker 12 (23:19):
I'm not a believer in reaching, but I am a
believer in the Spurs having number two and number fourteen.
I think they had number two hoping that Kevin Durant
would pick them and they would use that as far
as draft capital in the trade. But now that they don't,
I wonder if they're going to take I don't see
that being a tenable thing. But also, it is supposed
(23:40):
to be a positionless league, and that what they tell us.
I don't believe that. Mind you, I don't believe it's
a positionless league. I think that's a bunch of ball.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It is amazing, though, when you look back on the
Phoenix Suns, you had three Hall of fame point guards.
I don't think Kj's a Hall of famer, but he
played like a Hall of famer at times. Kid and
Steve Nash. But you're right, nobody knew about Nash. I
remember being at a practice facility and watching Nash and
I go, you know that that's the kid from Santa Clara,
(24:12):
Like he's he's pretty good, and then they've said, well
he won't play here. He won't start here and then
all of a sudden he goes to Dallas and next
thing you know, you know he's somebody unique. But you
didn't worry about salaries back then, Vincent. Now I got
Dearon Fox. What's he going to cost me? Although I
(24:34):
get Castle and harper On, you know rookie deals, Daron
Fox is going to cost me a lot of money.
So it feels like he might be the guy Jettison here.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Well, you just got him like that.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
But I think if you knew that you were gonna
end up with a second pick like I, they wouldn't
have made the move, probably for him, if they knew
they were going to be.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
In this situation. I like him, but if I can get.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Younger and I don't spend money, I thought they were
going to get Durant. I thought that that they realized
that he can help us, he can take pressure, he
can be a bucket. And but you know, they're they're
not yet where the rockets are, and the rockets might
be a year away. San Antonio feels like maybe two
(25:23):
years away from being uh oh, here they come.
Speaker 12 (25:29):
Well, Victor's coming, and I think there's a difference between
Victor's coming and the Spurs are coming. I think they're
on two different kind of a little bit different timeline.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Will he be the best player in the game in
five years?
Speaker 4 (25:41):
If not him, who are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, Shay Gilgess is going to be there for a
little while, whether you whether you believe that, But it
feels like you know by twenty five. I think I
said that he'll be the best player in the sport Victor.
Speaker 12 (25:59):
I mean, why won't he be the best player in
the sport two years from now? Why won't he be
the best player in.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
The sport next year?
Speaker 12 (26:05):
Like, do you see what he's doing. He's out there
with the monks. He looks like Eddie Murphy and the
Golden Child. Do you remember that movie?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, that was a bad movie. That was a bad
good reference bad movie. But yeah, he's with the Tibetan
monks there. But yeah, I look, I'm a big fan
because he should have been Defensive Player of the Year
the last two years. But I just wonder can the
team keep up with him?
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Is that he's well, he's not going anywhere, And here's
the thing.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
No, but the talent around him, can they keep up
with him? As he develops, so Castle can he shoot better?
Is Harper going to be you know, a true you know,
go to guy. Who else do you have on that
team who's going to help you?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
You know? So that that would be my only concern
with that.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
No, I don't disagree with you.
Speaker 12 (26:57):
I mean I think they have pieces that you can move,
the Jeremy so Ha and the Keldon Johnson's guys like
that that you if you're talking about packaging players and
figuring stuff out, if you want to press the fast
forward button, but until a player goes into his first
rookie extension, and if you think about this like the NFL,
where if you get a quarterback on a rookie contract
and you start putting in those veteran pieces around him,
(27:17):
like seat I'll deal with Russell Wilson like a decade ago.
That's what the NBA is turning into now, where if
you get a guy on the first contract or the
first rookie extension, that's when you start building a championship team.
That's why you have all these teams sort of positioning
themselves to make runs now before guys.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Get really really expensive.
Speaker 12 (27:36):
I wouldn't be surprised if the San Antonio Spurst put
all their chips to the center of the table.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
But traditionally that's not how they have operated.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
All Right, what's the better version of Michael Jordan? Young
Mike or old Mike or veteran our veteran Mike. I'll
give you five years of the next five years.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Oh, it's that middle five. It is.
Speaker 12 (28:00):
It is eighty nine to ninety three Michael Jordan. And
I don't think it's particularly close. Like in eighty nine,
he was scary, just like the triple doubles, and he
was going into his body and he took that really
not good bulls seam to the Eastern Conference Finals where
he took two games off of a Detroit team that
didn't lose to anybody else that season that series, and
(28:21):
then the next year you could see he was really
coming and really going to show up. And then you
went when you run off three in a row, and
I know that the bad boys were old and Magic
carried a bunch of dudes who were magic and the
who's who of who in nineteen ninety one to the
NBA Finals. He didn't have a direct equal because of
leamnbias and because of the calendar, but there was no
greater player we've ever seen in this league's history besides
(28:45):
Michael Jordan between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety three. Now,
the nineteen ninety seven Michael Jordan, the adult, grown Michael Jordan.
That guy put up the best NBA Finals we've ever seen. Legit,
from game to game, from the flu game to the
triple double to the game winning game one. Performance by performance,
that's the best NBA Finals we've ever seen. As far
(29:05):
as game to game effect. That was a thirty two,
thirty three year old. Okay, you can, you can, you
can take a pick.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Okay, But is Michael the first and second best player
of all time? If I look at what he was
in eighty nine and what he was in ninety six
ninety seven.
Speaker 12 (29:22):
Well, well I will tell you this, and this is
what's something someone told me.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
So it's not original.
Speaker 12 (29:28):
Michael Jordan is so great he went into the Hall
of Fame as two players, himself and Scottie Pippen.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Wow. Wow, that's cold blooded.
Speaker 12 (29:42):
I am from Detroit, Dand we do we do, we
do call Scotty sitting ball around here.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Uh. Gilbert Arenas said that he can't believe that people
treat Kobe like he was his sidekick when he was
with Shaq in that three pete. There is that fair
to say that he shouldn't have been viewed as Shack's sidekick.
Speaker 12 (30:08):
I think the problem is revisionist history has sort of
made people go to the stat sheet and said, man,
Tracy McGrady was a really good player. He could have
done what Kobe did. No, he couldn't have like Kobe
actually carried the Lakers in some of those playoffs series. Now,
two thousand, Kobe wasn't fully grown. He was still twenty
one years I think twenty two years old, and he
(30:29):
was still battling a little bit of inconsistency and find himself.
But by two thousand and one, no no, no, no, no, no, no,
no no. By two thousand and one, he was arguably
the best player in the game. Like the way he
dominated that San Antonio Spurs series in the Western Conference
Finals where he was taking forty point games on the
road against Tim Duncan and David Robinson and going to
(30:49):
the basket and dunking on them.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
No, no, no, there is.
Speaker 12 (30:52):
As much as there is dan a big gap between
Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, and I think there is
a huge gap between those two plays. There's even as
greater of a gap between Kobe Bryant and anybody else
that you feel like you can put in those spots
because Shaquille O'Neal needed somebody, and he just didn't need
a Vince Card or Tracy McGrady. Like those guys were great,
(31:14):
great players, But Kobe had an appetite and all around
complete game, especially defensively where he would really get after it.
I think, you know, it's funny when he died, it
was almost like there was an overarching sort of reach
to put him in a certain spot. And now all
of a sudden, we're going to downplay. No, no, no, Can
(31:34):
we just bring it a little bit to the middle.
I'm not going to say Kobe Bryant's rings didn't count,
like if you're not the number one guy, don't count whatever,
because Magic Johnson played with Kareem al Dula Jabbar, whose
rings were those in nineteen eighty, nineteen eighty two, and
eighty five. Like, I don't want to parse that and
turn that discussion into something that is not.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I mentioned this, and I'll leave you with this with
Okase that I know, we want to fast track them
to being a great team of all time, which they're not. Uh,
you know, you went to Game seven twice. You had
to hold off the biggest underdog in the last twenty
five years according to the odds makers. It took a
guy blowing out his achilles.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
You hold on, you won.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
We might look differently at this OKC team in three
years with what happens, they could be the Toronto Raptors,
or they might have some sustainability here, which I hope
they do and they probably should. But I think we
want to have that coronation of this is one of
the great teams of all time, great regular season. Denver
(32:36):
took them to seven, Indiana took him to seven. And
that's why I would just say, enjoy, enjoy your parade,
enjoy your title. Don't put him in there with the
one Lakers or the you know, eighty six Celtics or
you know they're not there.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
But that's okay.
Speaker 12 (32:54):
What do you think I think the difference between all
of those teams that you mentioned that some of the
single seasons and greatest teams eighty six Celtics, eighty seven Lakers,
eighty three seventy six Ers that only won one championship,
oh one Lakers. All those teams have gone through multiple
playoff runs, winning, losing everything else. This is their second
(33:15):
playoff run together, Dan, And that's where you can look
at it and say, man, do they still have.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
More room to grow that?
Speaker 12 (33:22):
And you don't know in today's NBA, especially with them
being in Oklahoma City, and we don't know how they're
going to handle Jalen Williams coming up for a Max,
chet Holmgren coming up for a Max and having all
those draft picks and figuring out the economics of the
game there. But we've had seven different champions in the
last seven years. Then we say the same thing about Milwaukee. Oh,
they're going to go on a run. Boston they're going
(33:43):
to go on a run. Denver they got Nicola yokis
the best player in the game. They're going to go
on a run. The game moves faster than ever, quicker
than ever.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I'm with you.
Speaker 12 (33:52):
I think they are one of the best single season
teams we've ever seen. It remains to be seen if
they have as long as a runway. What if Dan,
they are the San Antonio Spurs, would they never go
back to back, but they win championships over a fifteen
year period. Where the ninety nine team looks totally different
than the old seventeen looks totally different than the twenty
(34:12):
fourteen team, but there's a common denominator and a common
threat there. We would still say they are wildly successful,
especially in today's NBA.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Will said Vincent Goodwill, Yahoo's Sports senior NBA writer, host
of The Good Word podcast on Yahoo's Sports and Serious
XM NBA host.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Great to talk to you so always. Thank you, Ben always.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
I love the Living for the City.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh all right, little Stevie Wonder Living for the City,
got a little T shirt going on there.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I see what you're doing. Thank you, Vince.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio w APP.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Doctor Mark Addams sees the Harvard educated orthopedic surgeon.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
He's smarter than you.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Former offensive lineman, in fact, won a super with the
team formerly known as the Redskins. Doc, good to talk
to you again. We gave you our theory, or at
least Paul had a theory of the step back jumper.
Would that have anything to do with the proliferation of
Achilles tears? And then we'll get to your theory.
Speaker 10 (35:19):
Well, I mean the step back is not that much force, right,
I mean you've seen running backs tear as they go
to step back to accelerate forward. But I mean you
also see Achilles tears where guys are going to cut,
and so do I think the step back is more
force than someone running full speed and going to cut
(35:40):
and push off the leg? No, I mean, I really
don't think so. I don't think it's it's just because
guys are doing more step backs that you're going to
see more Achilles taars. The other thing is it used
to be that you didn't even worry about an Achilles
tear in an athlete that wasn't around or beyond thirty
years of age, and now you're seeing these twenty two,
twenty five year old get hurt.
Speaker 8 (36:02):
It really is, It really is crazy.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Okay, So what's your theory?
Speaker 8 (36:06):
So my theory is twofold one.
Speaker 10 (36:10):
I think that athletes now are a little bigger, a
little stronger, a little faster, a little more explosive. The
other one is is that it used to be when
you weren't playing sports, you were still active, do you
know what I mean? When you weren't playing your particular sport,
you still were running around and you were on your
feet all day long. Now, I think that most recreation
(36:33):
is sedentary, whether it's you know, cable TV, whether it's streaming,
whether it's video games.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
You know.
Speaker 10 (36:41):
I mean, I just think that people are more sedentary
when they're not doing their sport. And so the combination
of having bigger, stronger, more explosive athletes combined with someone
that isn't conditioning their muscles and tendons and all the
time is having a bad effect.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
How can it be prevented?
Speaker 8 (37:04):
I mean a good question.
Speaker 10 (37:05):
I mean, maybe thrown away smartphones and having people walk
around and be active more during the day.
Speaker 8 (37:12):
I mean, I don't think.
Speaker 10 (37:13):
That's gonna happen necessarily, but I mean there's got to
be better training techniques. There's got to be better training
techniques to strengthen that muscular tendeness and that tendnis bony junction.
Because we definitely are seeing more achilles, but I think
we're even seeing more serious quad growing hamstring. I mean,
(37:37):
we're seeing more muscle injuries than we used to.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
It feels like, you know, we've mastered hip replacement, Tommy John,
feels like we've kind of mastered that shoulders are still
the juries out on shoulders and the achilles, it feels
like it was twelve months now, it feels like coming
back to eight month months, nine months.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
What has changed with that surgery?
Speaker 8 (38:04):
Well, I mean they are.
Speaker 10 (38:05):
Doing them more minimally invasively, which which obviously eliminates the
problem with wound healing, but it also by by creating
less trauma, I think it allows the body to heal
a little bit more naturally. You know Torrell Suggs, you know,
the outside linebacker pass rush specialist for Baltimore.
Speaker 8 (38:25):
Many years ago.
Speaker 10 (38:25):
I mean, I think he's kind of the record he
returned to Sport six months after one of his achilles.
He actually tore both of his achilles over the course
of his career, but he was over thirty when he
did that. But I do think it's possible now or
even more likely more common to see guys coming back
eight nine months, which still eats significantly into tyres Heliberts
(38:51):
in season next.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Year, and Jason Tatum as well.
Speaker 8 (38:55):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, good point, good point of freaking stars.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Fritzie got hurt playing pickleball. He wasn't wearing his pickleball
shoes and he.
Speaker 8 (39:04):
Has do didn't even know there was such a thing.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, he has plantar fascis.
Speaker 10 (39:10):
Oh by all right, So planet fasciis one you want
to stretch. So there's a great yoga stretch called the
downward dog because you want to get that stretched out
to get a like a coke bottle twenty once bottle,
fill it with water, freeze it solid and roll that
on the sole of your foot to sort of massage
and ice the planner fascia. Three when you sleep your
(39:33):
toast point. So every morning when you get up, you
retear the planet fascia as it tries to heal overnight. Right,
So they have these night splints that hold your feet
at ninety degree angles. You can buy them on you know,
online on Amazon obviously. So night splints foot, the massage, ice, massage,
the stretch. And then the last thing is you can
(39:53):
buy a harder insert, a carbon fiber insert to go
into the shoe, which sometimes can help protect your planner fascia.
Any sort of an insert, like a one of those
spencat gel heel cups can help too, But that's that's
kind of.
Speaker 8 (40:09):
What I recommend.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Why didn't my microfracture surgery work on my knee?
Speaker 8 (40:16):
It's it's imperfect, right.
Speaker 10 (40:18):
What happens is you poke holes in the bone and
the idea was that bone marrow would come out and
your stem cells would make new cartilage. It was as
good as what was there originally. As it turns out,
the cartilage that grows in that gap is more fibro cartilage.
It doesn't wear as well, it doesn't protect the bone
as well, and so it wears out more quickly and
(40:38):
you feel the symptoms.
Speaker 8 (40:39):
Again.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
What role is stem cell going to play in injuries?
Speaker 10 (40:46):
I mean it's helpful. It's helpful, particularly the younger you are. Obviously,
the more active your stem cells are, and the more
they're gonna they're gonna play a role. I think at
some point we're gonna need to have gene therapy combined
with stem cells, so you have something that is telling
the stem cells what to do. In other words, I
don't think it's going to fix the knee that needs
micro factor. It's not going to fix arthritis unless you
(41:09):
intervene way earlier. But I think it's going to be
super helpful, and it already is being helpful for muscle
injuries and things that have a better chance to heal.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
What's the one question you get at a party when
you go to You know you're going to get this question.
Speaker 8 (41:24):
You know it's different.
Speaker 10 (41:26):
So I have the guy who just injured his planter
fashion playing pick a ball, and I have the guy
that injured his shoulder playing tennis. And I have a
guy that was doing jiu jitsu who injured his hip.
I mean, it's incredible the number of guys that are
my age that are doing jiu jitsu for the first time.
It sounds like a really bad idea to me.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
But do they take their shirts off or pants off
that they want to show you an injury?
Speaker 8 (41:48):
Thankfully, no, I'm avoiding. I'm avoiding that.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Good to talk to you again, Doc. Thanks for joining us,
Doctor Mark Adks
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Big Day in Oklahoma City thunder parade today. They even
sent out a notice. They gave you parade etiquette. What
to do, what to bring hydrate, make sure that you
don't lose sight of your kids, biggest, bring a snack.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
They gave you etiquette.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, they haven't had a parade out there, at least
not a professional parade, I don't think. But they gave
you some tips on how to enjoy the parade. I think,
what's going to happen?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Now?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
There's this rush to is okay See one of the
great teams of all time? And the answer is no,
they're not. They had a great regular season, but you
were pushed to seven games by Denver and pushed to
seven games by Indiana. Great teams don't get pushed to
seven games, not twice in a playoff series. Now, that
(00:54):
doesn't mean that they're not in the hall of very
good teams. I think, what's going to happen? This will
work in reverse. It might be two or three years
from now when we look back at Oka See and say,
you know what, they were a great team, Because we're
going to see what's going to happen in the next
couple of years.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Now, that's not fair to them.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I know Oklahoma City thunder fans get upset when we
don't crown them and then praise them. Well, we crown them.
We have praised them, But don't look for this. You
know the fast pass to go to great teams of
all time? You're not oka see right now is a
one hit wonder and it's a big hit. But let's
(01:36):
see what you do. What do you add to your
catalog that will determine greatness? You know those standalone teams,
There've been standalone teams. They won that one time. It's
really hard to repeat. And that's what we have to
factor in. That's why we can say, well it's parody,
but trying to sustain greatness.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
That's why dynasties are rare for a reason.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Remember the Celtics were taken over the sport and then
all of a sudden they're not. Jason Tatum goes down.
Who knows if he's going to play this next season.
Go back to twenty fourteen Seattle Seahawks. Oh my god,
that defense, young, intimidating, dominant, young quarterback Pete Carroll.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Your head coach, that dynasty never materialized.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okac is talented, Sga is the star, Jalen Williams, Chad
Holmgren kind of in the on deck circle. Dynasties are
not just about being young and good. It's about evolving,
it's about enduring. It's about delivering again and again and again. Okay, see,
just enjoyed the parade. Enjoy the title.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You earned it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
But greatness isn't handed out at a parade. You gotta
earn it every single week, every single season, every single
day you got a banner, getting that second banner is
going to be even tougher. And this is where we
sometimes forget greatness. You know, Jordan never went to a
(03:04):
Game seven. That's brought up all the time, but that's
important to remember. He went against good teams Utah Jazz.
They won sixty games. It felt like every year they
were a really good team. I thought that Seattle SuperSonics
team was as talented as any team I'd seen in
a long time. But they they won when they needed
(03:25):
to win. They didn't need to get to a Game seven.
You were on the ropes. You could have lost to
Denver and you could have lost to the Pacers. If
Halliburton stays healthy, we have a different outcome in my opinion.
But okay, see you want it. And Shay Gilgis was
a wonderful player. Now we want to have him. We
want to put him into the Kobe category or Jordan
(03:48):
as a scorer.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I know. We want to do it. We want this
immedia seed.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Instead of saying, how about just let this play out
a little bit, there's nothing wrong with, you know, tapping
the brake on this. You had a wonderful season. Let's
don't make it more than what it was. A wonderful season.
Enjoy the parade. I can't wait till Opening night. You celebrate.
You have a banner, championship rings, You've earned every bit
(04:15):
of that. But let's be fair. Put it in context.
You were pushed to seven games by an Indiana team
that was the biggest underdog in the last twenty five years.
In the NBA Finals. You were pushed to seven games
by a Denver team that fired its head coach.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Two weeks before the postseason.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Put it in context, and in two or three years
from now, we may look back and go, you know what,
we miss that? Or Okay, they won their one title,
all right, we'll come up with a poll question here, Seaton,
you got one for hour one.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yeah, I think I do. That's a topic that we
were all kicking around before the show. But there's been
a bunch of achilles tears coincidence or is there a reason?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
All right, we.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Reached out to a Harvard educated orthopedic surgeon who has
been on the show before, former Offensive lineman doctor Mark Addocks,
and he's going to join us a little bit later
on because you start to think about it, Okay, Tatum
Halliburton and Dame Achilles tears. Kevin Durant with achilles tears.
(05:28):
I'm trying to remember Isaiah Thomas tore his achilles late
in his career.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But I'm trying to remember growing up in.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
The sixties or the seventies, if anybody tore their achilles
in the NBA. Now you can say today's athlete is
so much better. Absolutely, but you would think, I mean,
Aaron Rodgers is not athletic anymore. He tore his achilles.
Dan Marino not athletic. He tore his achilles just going
(05:58):
back to pass. Nobody hit him. So that's why I'm
curious about this and the surgery by the way. Haliburton
had surgery in New York yesterday. It was successful. It's
always successful. But I don't know when he's coming back.
That really affects the East Tatum. I don't know when
he's coming back. But Haliburton said, Hey, if I had
(06:21):
to do it all over again, I would have done
it the same way.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I don't think I would do it the same way.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
If I knew that I was going to tear my
achilles and it's going to impact next season for my team,
I probably would have said, you know, maybe use me sparingly.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yes, Marvin, So if.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
You knew you were going to lose, would you still
do it?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
If I knew I was going to lose, well, okay,
I don't want to impact my team next.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Year if you know you're going to blow out your achilles.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
So he gets to Game seven, all of a sudd udden,
he's made a couple of moves and he goes, hey
take me out now. In the moment, everybody's gonna crucify.
But if if we know what the end result is
going to be, then of course I'm not gonna blow
out my achilles in a game we're gonna lose, or
I can't have an impact on and it's gonna impact
(07:20):
my team next year?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah yeah, pulm all right.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
To put this in perspective, we're gonna have to go
back to Kurt Shilling and four we discuss this on
this show a zillion years ago. If Tyre's Halliburton on
going into Game seven can sign up for I'm gonna
play seven minutes, play well, tear my achilles and be
out for next year, and we're gonna win a title.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Oh well, win a title.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
Well, that's where it's an actual discussion. Would you sign
on a piece of paper to lose your entire next season?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Is my team going to need me?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
You're gonna play.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
He's certainly playing seven minutes, so you're gonna this is
based off my teammates.
Speaker 6 (07:56):
Or you roll the dice and whatever happens in game
seven happens if you don't sign that piece of paper.
We asked Chilling that on this air. He said he'd
be glad to with his ankle thing.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, but I don't I don't know what he was
risking with that ankle, other than that ankle looked terrible,
But I don't know if he was risking his career
Haliburton with his achilles, you're never the same. I mean,
you can pretend that you are. I'm back and better
than ever. It's like micro fracture surgery with your knee.
(08:30):
I had that, you know, Amari Stodommeyer. You know a
lot of NBA players have had it. You don't come
back from it. There's certain injuries where okay, you're going
to be. This is as good as you're going to be.
I think we'd come pretty far with the achilles. But
if you said I'm signing up for playing seven minutes,
I'm blowing out my achilles. We're going to go win
the title, I'd say, why don't you guys go win
(08:52):
the title. I'm gonna sit here and watch, and then
I'll be here next year to play with you.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yes, tud I'd be.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
Concerned, and I think most athletes would be. I may
never get a chance to play for a title a
game seven. This could be my only chance an even
if I'm going to run the risk of not being
able to play next year, how could you not be
part of that?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
If you're not a huge.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Party, you're going to sign up for seven minutes. Seven
minutes you got on the court and played.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Some small factor whatever.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You but you were on the court for your championship
game next year.
Speaker 8 (09:22):
Yeah you may.
Speaker 7 (09:24):
You may never be able to play again in a
championship game.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Look at damn Marina there.
Speaker 7 (09:28):
You guys would get one chance and then after that
you're done forever, not even snipping a chance to play
for a ring.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I think you got to do it.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I don't want to be out there for seven minutes
knowing that I'm going to be into surgery in a
couple of days and out for the next season. My
teammates are going to win that title, but they're probably not. Actually,
they're unlikely to because of the odds with you being out.
Oklahoma said he would be an overwhelming favorite that game,
so that's the risk.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Well, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
They were an overwhelming favorite every single game, and they
were favored by nine one and a half in the
championship game. It didn't matter about Halliburton. They were favored
by nine and a half. Yes, Marmu, but.
Speaker 9 (10:06):
Halliburton would be a He'd be in a Willis Reed
type spot if he came out there and needed the
exact same thing. Started out hot and the rest of
his team Nemhart, Nate Smith, whoever took him home, he
would still be looked at as a as a legend.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, but what happened to Willis Reid after that game?
What happened next next season? Does anybody remember when Willis
came out and only played a few minutes, hit a
couple of buckets, See he was done. Does anybody remember
what his season was like the following No, they don't.
Maybe he wasn't even available. I mean, I know that
he had knee surgery, probably later in his career, probably
(10:43):
didn't play much longer after that. But here's Haliburton, who's young.
I would not I would not go if I knew
that I was going to be out next season. And
it's I know, it's a crazy hypothetical because if you
go into the game and you're going to say to
Rick carlyinle Hey, if I go out there, I'm going
(11:04):
to give you seven minutes, I'm going to hit three
threes and I'm going to blow up my achilles.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
What would Rick Carlile do if he knew that?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Halliburton says, Look, it feels like I'm going to blow
up my achilles. Rick Carlile was going to say to Halliburton,
you tell me what you want to do. But if
I knew I was going to blow it out and
we were going to go on and win, But would
you win if I'm only playing seven minutes?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, Pong, Willis reed.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Going back to the seventy three finals, he came out
and became the hero. He played one more season in
the NBA nineteen games and then retired due to injury.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
No, the game was nineteen seventy.
Speaker 6 (11:49):
Okay, I'm sorry, seventy Oh so nineteen seventy. He was
the MVP that year. He played in those playoffs. He
came back and was still a good player for a
couple more years.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Okay, yeah, he got the MVP in the finals, but
it should have been Walt Frasier's. But it was in
You know, he was very inspirational. There absolutely stat of
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(12:19):
Get a free estimate today. Huh oh, better get Maco,
all right, Seaton, So what was the question for the
first hour.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Is it just a coincidence or is there a reason
for all of these Achilles injuries?
Speaker 10 (12:31):
Mm?
Speaker 5 (12:32):
Okay, yeah, I think it was. I don't know if
it must have been last week. I would imagine maybe
the week before we did a whole topic about should
Tyrese Halliburton sit to throw off Oklahoma City or they're
prepared for him, why don't you just sit rest it?
And uh, you know, maybe that would actually play into
the Piezer's hands better.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Well, I wondered if it would it would make him
stronger if you sat him out the second half of
that game they got blown out, and then the following game.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
Yeah, I think it was do you sit out game six?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
For game seven.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
If I knew, If I knew that he would be
healthier and you were playing at home, so you were
going to get everything the Pacers had. If you're confident
the Pacers can win the game at home, get to
a game seven, and then Halliburton is healthier, then yes.
But I said I would have sat him out in
(13:27):
the second half of game five when you're getting smoked.
I would have had him sit out and then just
but once again, former NBA players said if that was
the regular season, you're missing at least a week, if
not longer with that injury. Haliburton rolled the dice. Indiana
rolled the dice. Rick Carlisle rolled the dice. So nobody
(13:49):
can be upset about this. Everybody, I think, knew what
was at stake here, and Haliburton tried and sent out
a tweet, a lengthy tweet. You know, you know he
talks about the mental aspect of this. You know, that's
what happens with injuries. Like you can get hurt and
then you have surgery. Then the depression sets in when
(14:11):
you're alone, when you're doing rehab and you're not able
to shoot. There's nothing fun going on and it's just you.
Now you'll have a physical therapist there. But that's what
he's talking about, like the mental hurdle that he's going
to have to overcome. That's the hard part with injuries,
in my opinion, and as many injuries as I've had,
(14:31):
it's when you're going to pet and you're going god
or you're breaking through scar tissue and you're like and
you know, it feels like the next day is the
same and the next day is the same, and then
all of a sudden, you get this little glimmer of
hope that hey don't need your crutches, or hey you
don't need percoset, Hey you don't need to ice it.
(14:53):
Everything like just little things like that. Tatum's going through
that right now, Dame and down Halliburton. But the coincid
dental part of this, man, I don't buy that. Just
feels like there's something different. These are all marquee players.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yes, Marmon.
Speaker 9 (15:15):
I feel bad for the Pacers from this standpoint. They're
going back into irrelevancy after such a great two months
because next year, where you're going into the season, no
one's gonna be talking about the Pacers because there's no
Halliburton and so they're just gonna go back into being
the middle of the pack team in the East until
he comes back. So that hurts them as far as notoriety.
(15:35):
They were trying to build a star and now they
don't have him.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
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Speaker 3 (15:50):
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Speaker 11 (15:51):
I'm the producer of the Paul and TONI Fusco Show.
Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
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Speaker 4 (16:05):
The hell are you doing in our studio?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Get him?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
PAULI ignore that fool.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
Listen to the Pauline Tony Fusco Show on the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
He's still moving.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Vincent Goodwill Junior, the third y'all Who's Sports Senior NBA writer,
host of the Good Word podcast on y'all Who's Sports
Ball Don't Lie in Serious x M NBA host and
he joins us after doing a deep dive on Kevin
Durant going to the Rockets. Why is Kevin Durant on
the Rockets?
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Does he wants to be?
Speaker 12 (16:42):
I think that's the easy explanation to say that is
because clearly, amongst the team that he listed, the Rockets
where the team that looks to be a Kevin Durant
away with the young talent, the coaching, the pedigree from
being a real threat in the Western Conference, Like Aman
Thompson is real and an alparin Shingoon. I don't know
(17:05):
how he fits in this iteration with Kevin Durant, but
he's a talented player. Javari Smith like, they have so
many young pieces and still so many young unearthed pieces
yet to be explored that you add KD there. If
he is a reasonable semblance of what he's been, they're
a real threat in the Western Conference next season.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
How does Phoenix not get Thompson?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Reed Shepherd or like it felt like the Rockets were like,
wait a minute, who do you want this trade?
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Sure will do that.
Speaker 12 (17:36):
That is the art of negotiation, Dan, That is where
the player sometimes controls exactly what iteration appears for him
because he wants to go to a team that still
has enough place Like, look, Thompson's going to be a
non starter. And what works against Phoenix here is that
Kevin Durant is thirty six years old and the max
he can sign for an extension is going to be
(17:58):
two years. Dan, we don't have a president for a
player who's had a Liz Frank. Remember that the Liszt
Frank is what got Bill Walton and Achilles injury which
is what Tyre's Halliburton at and an MCL. People forget
he had an MCL his first full year or second
full year in Brooklyn.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
There's no president for.
Speaker 12 (18:18):
The long jevity of these old guys being able to
hang around and play at a championship level. So you
do have to find a way to mitigate some of
the risks. Like I know, the numbers look great on paper,
fifty to forty ninety across the board, but it looks
different Dan, if you go look at Kevin Durant in
twenty fourteen when before his first real injury, when he
(18:41):
put up fifty against against the Golden State Warriors, he
looks so fluid that athleticism popped off the page. Now
he's a guy who's going to be thirty seven years old,
and once again, there's no template for this. We don't
have any president for this, so we don't know what
this is going to look like or what it's supposed
to look like.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I'm going to ask you the question that you ask
in your column. Is this his last stomp or just
his next stop?
Speaker 12 (19:08):
Well, Dan, it's hard to say, because I thought Brooklyn
was going to be the last stop. I thought Phoenix
was going to be the last stop. So I'm not
going to boxing Kevin Durant. I would just say it
feels more likely. I don't know if Kevin Durant wants
to be Lebron James playing until he's forty two, forty three,
fifty five years old to claim every record or whatever
it is. For this mythical argument, I think Kevin Durant's
(19:31):
going to play as long as his body tells him
that he can play, and he can play meaningful basketball.
You can only judge these guys two years at a
time because that's the length of their contracts.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
These thos going to their.
Speaker 12 (19:41):
Forties, Dan, they need to be like sitting up somewhere
next to you, reminiscent about the good times them. Need
to be out there chasing around these forty old, least
twenty five year olds.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
What's their problem?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
The Achilles injuries, coincidence or something more to.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
It, maybe a little bit of both.
Speaker 12 (19:58):
I think what we cannot quantify, Dan, is the amount
of miles that these players have on their bodies well
before they get to the NBA. We think of their
old dometers starting once they get to the league.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
That's not the case.
Speaker 12 (20:11):
At all when you're playing AAU basketball all those games today,
the personal training. And here's the other thing, this is
the age of specialization. These guys aren't playing football, baseball, track,
all these other things to work different muscles. They're playing
one sport and it's starting that and it's starting that
mile trajectory really really early. I don't know how to
(20:31):
do that. I do know this, the next time someone
has a calf injury late in the season, sit the
ass down period.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yes, but we said that. I said it last week.
I said, you know, you're not careful, you're going to
tear your achilles. And we've seen this with Durant, We've
seen this with Dame, We've seen this with Tatum. I
don't know, it just feels like there's something else.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Now.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Granted Aaron Rodgers wasn't doing anything, just back to pass.
Dan Marino when he tore is just going back to pass.
So I it's not all these are incredible athletes and
they're cutting in you know, all the mileage on there.
It's it's weird, you know that it can happen to
a quarterback just going back to pass.
Speaker 12 (21:14):
I mean, here's the thing, something's always going to be
hurting on you as an athlete, and usually it's around
your calf, or it's ten Denii's, or it's something that
you're used to managing.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 12 (21:26):
Den Marino tour here is in what ninety three if
I remember correctly, or ninety four, so he's like ten
years into his career. That's not necessarily common. Dame Lillard,
that's an old man injury for him. Isaiah Thomas, that's
an old man injury. Dominque Wilkins, old man injury. These
other guys, it's not old. Tyrese Haliburton is some you know,
(21:46):
explosive athlete that's jumping around. But when you have a
calf injury, remember Luka Doncic had a calf injury in
Dallas that we kind of wonder, Okay, is he in
good enough shape? And all these other type of things.
All these injuries aren't created equal, they aren't birth by
the same things, but they do produce the same risk,
and we have to look at them like, this is
a risk, especially when you're playing one hundred games into
(22:08):
a season and Dan, the game is moving so fast.
That's what you gotta be careful.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Talking to Vincent Goodwill He is a Yahu Sports senior
NBA writers. Latest article has to do with Kevin Durant
with the Rockets. I'm curious about the Spurs if they're
taking Dylan Harper, so that backcourt's pretty crowded. So I
got the Rookie of the Year, I got dearon Fox,
and it feels like somebody is not going to be
(22:34):
long for San Antonio. What are the Spurs gonna do?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Well?
Speaker 12 (22:39):
Talking to people around the league, the Spurs are the
team that they're like, Okay, keep an eye on them,
because the Spurs like to keep things close to the best.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
They're not going to go out and telegraph their moves.
Speaker 12 (22:48):
Remember, we didn't see the darn Fox trade happening like
they already they already got a young guard there and
then he added another one, right, so I wouldn't be surprised.
Like there have been instances where I don't know if
you remember this stand the Phoenix Sons of ninety seven
had Kevin Johnson, a young Steve Nash and Jason Kidd
(23:09):
and they wound up working out that you know, kJ
was a little bit older, Steve Nash was a little
bit unfounded at the time, and you kind of let
these things work themselves out.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
You take the best player available. Like I don't.
Speaker 12 (23:19):
I'm not a believer in reaching, but I am a
believer in the Spurs having number two and number fourteen.
I think they had number two hoping that Kevin Durant
would pick them and they would use that as far
as draft capital in the trade. But now that they don't,
I wonder if they're going to take I don't see
that being a tenable thing. But also, it is supposed
(23:40):
to be a positionless league, and that what they tell us.
I don't believe that. Mind you, I don't believe it's
a positionless league. I think that's a bunch of ball.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It is amazing, though, when you look back on the
Phoenix Suns, you had three Hall of fame point guards.
I don't think Kj's a Hall of famer, but he
played like a Hall of famer at times. Kid and
Steve Nash. But you're right, nobody knew about Nash. I
remember being at a practice facility and watching Nash and
I go, you know that that's the kid from Santa Clara,
(24:12):
Like he's he's pretty good, and then they've said, well
he won't play here. He won't start here and then
all of a sudden he goes to Dallas and next
thing you know, you know he's somebody unique. But you
didn't worry about salaries back then, Vincent. Now I got
Dearon Fox. What's he going to cost me? Although I
(24:34):
get Castle and harper On, you know rookie deals, Daron
Fox is going to cost me a lot of money.
So it feels like he might be the guy Jettison here.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Well, you just got him like that.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
But I think if you knew that you were gonna
end up with a second pick like I, they wouldn't
have made the move, probably for him, if they knew
they were going to be.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
In this situation. I like him, but if I can get.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Younger and I don't spend money, I thought they were
going to get Durant. I thought that that they realized
that he can help us, he can take pressure, he
can be a bucket. And but you know, they're they're
not yet where the rockets are, and the rockets might
be a year away. San Antonio feels like maybe two
(25:23):
years away from being uh oh, here they come.
Speaker 12 (25:29):
Well, Victor's coming, and I think there's a difference between
Victor's coming and the Spurs are coming. I think they're
on two different kind of a little bit different timeline.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Will he be the best player in the game in
five years?
Speaker 4 (25:41):
If not him, who are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, Shay Gilgess is going to be there for a
little while, whether you whether you believe that, But it
feels like you know by twenty five. I think I
said that he'll be the best player in the sport Victor.
Speaker 12 (25:59):
I mean, why won't he be the best player in
the sport two years from now? Why won't he be
the best player in.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
The sport next year?
Speaker 12 (26:05):
Like, do you see what he's doing. He's out there
with the monks. He looks like Eddie Murphy and the
Golden Child. Do you remember that movie?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, that was a bad movie. That was a bad
good reference bad movie. But yeah, he's with the Tibetan
monks there. But yeah, I look, I'm a big fan
because he should have been Defensive Player of the Year
the last two years. But I just wonder can the
team keep up with him?
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Is that he's well, he's not going anywhere, And here's
the thing.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
No, but the talent around him, can they keep up
with him? As he develops, so Castle can he shoot better?
Is Harper going to be you know, a true you know,
go to guy. Who else do you have on that
team who's going to help you?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
You know? So that that would be my only concern
with that.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
No, I don't disagree with you.
Speaker 12 (26:57):
I mean I think they have pieces that you can move,
the Jeremy so Ha and the Keldon Johnson's guys like
that that you if you're talking about packaging players and
figuring stuff out, if you want to press the fast
forward button, but until a player goes into his first
rookie extension, and if you think about this like the NFL,
where if you get a quarterback on a rookie contract
and you start putting in those veteran pieces around him,
(27:17):
like seat I'll deal with Russell Wilson like a decade ago.
That's what the NBA is turning into now, where if
you get a guy on the first contract or the
first rookie extension, that's when you start building a championship team.
That's why you have all these teams sort of positioning
themselves to make runs now before guys.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Get really really expensive.
Speaker 12 (27:36):
I wouldn't be surprised if the San Antonio Spurst put
all their chips to the center of the table.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
But traditionally that's not how they have operated.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
All Right, what's the better version of Michael Jordan? Young
Mike or old Mike or veteran our veteran Mike. I'll
give you five years of the next five years.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Oh, it's that middle five. It is.
Speaker 12 (28:00):
It is eighty nine to ninety three Michael Jordan. And
I don't think it's particularly close. Like in eighty nine,
he was scary, just like the triple doubles, and he
was going into his body and he took that really
not good bulls seam to the Eastern Conference Finals where
he took two games off of a Detroit team that
didn't lose to anybody else that season that series, and
(28:21):
then the next year you could see he was really
coming and really going to show up. And then you
went when you run off three in a row, and
I know that the bad boys were old and Magic
carried a bunch of dudes who were magic and the
who's who of who in nineteen ninety one to the
NBA Finals. He didn't have a direct equal because of
leamnbias and because of the calendar, but there was no
greater player we've ever seen in this league's history besides
(28:45):
Michael Jordan between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety three. Now,
the nineteen ninety seven Michael Jordan, the adult, grown Michael Jordan.
That guy put up the best NBA Finals we've ever seen. Legit,
from game to game, from the flu game to the
triple double to the game winning game one. Performance by performance,
that's the best NBA Finals we've ever seen. As far
(29:05):
as game to game effect. That was a thirty two,
thirty three year old. Okay, you can, you can, you
can take a pick.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Okay, But is Michael the first and second best player
of all time? If I look at what he was
in eighty nine and what he was in ninety six
ninety seven.
Speaker 12 (29:22):
Well, well I will tell you this, and this is
what's something someone told me.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
So it's not original.
Speaker 12 (29:28):
Michael Jordan is so great he went into the Hall
of Fame as two players, himself and Scottie Pippen.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Wow. Wow, that's cold blooded.
Speaker 12 (29:42):
I am from Detroit, Dand we do we do, we
do call Scotty sitting ball around here.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Uh. Gilbert Arenas said that he can't believe that people
treat Kobe like he was his sidekick when he was
with Shaq in that three pete. There is that fair
to say that he shouldn't have been viewed as Shack's sidekick.
Speaker 12 (30:08):
I think the problem is revisionist history has sort of
made people go to the stat sheet and said, man,
Tracy McGrady was a really good player. He could have
done what Kobe did. No, he couldn't have like Kobe
actually carried the Lakers in some of those playoffs series. Now,
two thousand, Kobe wasn't fully grown. He was still twenty
one years I think twenty two years old, and he
(30:29):
was still battling a little bit of inconsistency and find himself.
But by two thousand and one, no no, no, no, no, no, no,
no no. By two thousand and one, he was arguably
the best player in the game. Like the way he
dominated that San Antonio Spurs series in the Western Conference
Finals where he was taking forty point games on the
road against Tim Duncan and David Robinson and going to
(30:49):
the basket and dunking on them.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
No, no, no, there is.
Speaker 12 (30:52):
As much as there is dan a big gap between
Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, and I think there is
a huge gap between those two plays. There's even as
greater of a gap between Kobe Bryant and anybody else
that you feel like you can put in those spots
because Shaquille O'Neal needed somebody, and he just didn't need
a Vince Card or Tracy McGrady. Like those guys were great,
(31:14):
great players, But Kobe had an appetite and all around
complete game, especially defensively where he would really get after it.
I think, you know, it's funny when he died, it
was almost like there was an overarching sort of reach
to put him in a certain spot. And now all
of a sudden, we're going to downplay. No, no, no, Can
(31:34):
we just bring it a little bit to the middle.
I'm not going to say Kobe Bryant's rings didn't count,
like if you're not the number one guy, don't count whatever,
because Magic Johnson played with Kareem al Dula Jabbar, whose
rings were those in nineteen eighty, nineteen eighty two, and
eighty five. Like, I don't want to parse that and
turn that discussion into something that is not.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I mentioned this, and I'll leave you with this with
Okase that I know, we want to fast track them
to being a great team of all time, which they're not. Uh,
you know, you went to Game seven twice. You had
to hold off the biggest underdog in the last twenty
five years according to the odds makers. It took a
guy blowing out his achilles.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
You hold on, you won.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
We might look differently at this OKC team in three
years with what happens, they could be the Toronto Raptors,
or they might have some sustainability here, which I hope
they do and they probably should. But I think we
want to have that coronation of this is one of
the great teams of all time, great regular season. Denver
(32:36):
took them to seven, Indiana took him to seven. And
that's why I would just say, enjoy, enjoy your parade,
enjoy your title. Don't put him in there with the
one Lakers or the you know, eighty six Celtics or
you know they're not there.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
But that's okay.
Speaker 12 (32:54):
What do you think I think the difference between all
of those teams that you mentioned that some of the
single seasons and greatest teams eighty six Celtics, eighty seven Lakers,
eighty three seventy six Ers that only won one championship,
oh one Lakers. All those teams have gone through multiple
playoff runs, winning, losing everything else. This is their second
(33:15):
playoff run together, Dan, And that's where you can look
at it and say, man, do they still have.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
More room to grow that?
Speaker 12 (33:22):
And you don't know in today's NBA, especially with them
being in Oklahoma City, and we don't know how they're
going to handle Jalen Williams coming up for a Max,
chet Holmgren coming up for a Max and having all
those draft picks and figuring out the economics of the
game there. But we've had seven different champions in the
last seven years. Then we say the same thing about Milwaukee. Oh,
they're going to go on a run. Boston they're going
(33:43):
to go on a run. Denver they got Nicola yokis
the best player in the game. They're going to go
on a run. The game moves faster than ever, quicker
than ever.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I'm with you.
Speaker 12 (33:52):
I think they are one of the best single season
teams we've ever seen. It remains to be seen if
they have as long as a runway. What if Dan,
they are the San Antonio Spurs, would they never go
back to back, but they win championships over a fifteen
year period. Where the ninety nine team looks totally different
than the old seventeen looks totally different than the twenty
(34:12):
fourteen team, but there's a common denominator and a common
threat there. We would still say they are wildly successful,
especially in today's NBA.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Will said Vincent Goodwill, Yahoo's Sports senior NBA writer, host
of The Good Word podcast on Yahoo's Sports and Serious
XM NBA host.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Great to talk to you so always. Thank you, Ben always.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
I love the Living for the City.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh all right, little Stevie Wonder Living for the City,
got a little T shirt going on there.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I see what you're doing. Thank you, Vince.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio w APP.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Doctor Mark Addams sees the Harvard educated orthopedic surgeon.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
He's smarter than you.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Former offensive lineman, in fact, won a super with the
team formerly known as the Redskins. Doc, good to talk
to you again. We gave you our theory, or at
least Paul had a theory of the step back jumper.
Would that have anything to do with the proliferation of
Achilles tears? And then we'll get to your theory.
Speaker 10 (35:19):
Well, I mean the step back is not that much force, right,
I mean you've seen running backs tear as they go
to step back to accelerate forward. But I mean you
also see Achilles tears where guys are going to cut,
and so do I think the step back is more
force than someone running full speed and going to cut
(35:40):
and push off the leg? No, I mean, I really
don't think so. I don't think it's it's just because
guys are doing more step backs that you're going to
see more Achilles taars. The other thing is it used
to be that you didn't even worry about an Achilles
tear in an athlete that wasn't around or beyond thirty
years of age, and now you're seeing these twenty two,
twenty five year old get hurt.
Speaker 8 (36:02):
It really is, It really is crazy.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Okay, So what's your theory?
Speaker 8 (36:06):
So my theory is twofold one.
Speaker 10 (36:10):
I think that athletes now are a little bigger, a
little stronger, a little faster, a little more explosive. The
other one is is that it used to be when
you weren't playing sports, you were still active, do you
know what I mean? When you weren't playing your particular sport,
you still were running around and you were on your
feet all day long. Now, I think that most recreation
(36:33):
is sedentary, whether it's you know, cable TV, whether it's streaming,
whether it's video games.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
You know.
Speaker 10 (36:41):
I mean, I just think that people are more sedentary
when they're not doing their sport. And so the combination
of having bigger, stronger, more explosive athletes combined with someone
that isn't conditioning their muscles and tendons and all the
time is having a bad effect.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
How can it be prevented?
Speaker 8 (37:04):
I mean a good question.
Speaker 10 (37:05):
I mean, maybe thrown away smartphones and having people walk
around and be active more during the day.
Speaker 8 (37:12):
I mean, I don't think.
Speaker 10 (37:13):
That's gonna happen necessarily, but I mean there's got to
be better training techniques. There's got to be better training
techniques to strengthen that muscular tendeness and that tendnis bony junction.
Because we definitely are seeing more achilles, but I think
we're even seeing more serious quad growing hamstring. I mean,
(37:37):
we're seeing more muscle injuries than we used to.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
It feels like, you know, we've mastered hip replacement, Tommy John,
feels like we've kind of mastered that shoulders are still
the juries out on shoulders and the achilles, it feels
like it was twelve months now, it feels like coming
back to eight month months, nine months.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
What has changed with that surgery?
Speaker 8 (38:04):
Well, I mean they are.
Speaker 10 (38:05):
Doing them more minimally invasively, which which obviously eliminates the
problem with wound healing, but it also by by creating
less trauma, I think it allows the body to heal
a little bit more naturally. You know Torrell Suggs, you know,
the outside linebacker pass rush specialist for Baltimore.
Speaker 8 (38:25):
Many years ago.
Speaker 10 (38:25):
I mean, I think he's kind of the record he
returned to Sport six months after one of his achilles.
He actually tore both of his achilles over the course
of his career, but he was over thirty when he
did that. But I do think it's possible now or
even more likely more common to see guys coming back
eight nine months, which still eats significantly into tyres Heliberts
(38:51):
in season next.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Year, and Jason Tatum as well.
Speaker 8 (38:55):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, good point, good point of freaking stars.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Fritzie got hurt playing pickleball. He wasn't wearing his pickleball
shoes and he.
Speaker 8 (39:04):
Has do didn't even know there was such a thing.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, he has plantar fascis.
Speaker 10 (39:10):
Oh by all right, So planet fasciis one you want
to stretch. So there's a great yoga stretch called the
downward dog because you want to get that stretched out
to get a like a coke bottle twenty once bottle,
fill it with water, freeze it solid and roll that
on the sole of your foot to sort of massage
and ice the planner fascia. Three when you sleep your
(39:33):
toast point. So every morning when you get up, you
retear the planet fascia as it tries to heal overnight. Right,
So they have these night splints that hold your feet
at ninety degree angles. You can buy them on you know,
online on Amazon obviously. So night splints foot, the massage, ice, massage,
the stretch. And then the last thing is you can
(39:53):
buy a harder insert, a carbon fiber insert to go
into the shoe, which sometimes can help protect your planner fascia.
Any sort of an insert, like a one of those
spencat gel heel cups can help too, But that's that's
kind of.
Speaker 8 (40:09):
What I recommend.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Why didn't my microfracture surgery work on my knee?
Speaker 8 (40:16):
It's it's imperfect, right.
Speaker 10 (40:18):
What happens is you poke holes in the bone and
the idea was that bone marrow would come out and
your stem cells would make new cartilage. It was as
good as what was there originally. As it turns out,
the cartilage that grows in that gap is more fibro cartilage.
It doesn't wear as well, it doesn't protect the bone
as well, and so it wears out more quickly and
(40:38):
you feel the symptoms.
Speaker 8 (40:39):
Again.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
What role is stem cell going to play in injuries?
Speaker 10 (40:46):
I mean it's helpful. It's helpful, particularly the younger you are. Obviously,
the more active your stem cells are, and the more
they're gonna they're gonna play a role. I think at
some point we're gonna need to have gene therapy combined
with stem cells, so you have something that is telling
the stem cells what to do. In other words, I
don't think it's going to fix the knee that needs
micro factor. It's not going to fix arthritis unless you
(41:09):
intervene way earlier. But I think it's going to be
super helpful, and it already is being helpful for muscle
injuries and things that have a better chance to heal.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
What's the one question you get at a party when
you go to You know you're going to get this question.
Speaker 8 (41:24):
You know it's different.
Speaker 10 (41:26):
So I have the guy who just injured his planter
fashion playing pick a ball, and I have the guy
that injured his shoulder playing tennis. And I have a
guy that was doing jiu jitsu who injured his hip.
I mean, it's incredible the number of guys that are
my age that are doing jiu jitsu for the first time.
It sounds like a really bad idea to me.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
But do they take their shirts off or pants off
that they want to show you an injury?
Speaker 8 (41:48):
Thankfully, no, I'm avoiding. I'm avoiding that.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Good to talk to you again, Doc. Thanks for joining us,
Doctor Mark Adks
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