November 5, 2025 • 41 mins
The MMQB Senior NFL reporter Albert Breer unpacks a fire sale from the Jets and was surprised at the Rams and Bills not making bigger moves. Dodgers’ manager Dave Roberts reflects on winning back-to-back World Series titles and shares the gut-decisions made in Game 7 that helped him lift the trophy. Phil Jackson & Sam Smith preview their new book, "Masters of the Game," and Phil shares who the one player is who he wished he had an opportunity to coach.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
He is the Monday morning quarterback. Senior NFL reporter Albert
Breer is back. We always want to know who won
and who lost. Here, Uh, let's start with that. The
immediate reaction to who won the trade deadline?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Oh, I, you know, that's a good question because I
think some man of these teams are in such different positions,
and so, you know, what the Colts did conceptually is
so different than what the than what the Jets did.
You know, you know, I really actually like where the
Cowboys are at now because I think they come out
of the mosaic right of the Micah Parsons Quinn Williams situation,
(00:48):
and if you like, really like add the whole thing
up right, they got a year and a half older
with a key defensive player. They have a disruptive defensive
tackle instead of a disruptive edge. Now, they save about
twenty million dollars a year on the contract, and they
move a second round pick into the first round. So
(01:09):
if you look at the totality of it, if they're
able to maximize quinnin Williams, now you've got quote Quentin
Williams and Osa Digiezuwa to be the foundation of your
defense that you're trying to build with Maddie Eberflus. There,
Maddie Eberflus's best defenses in Indianapolis were built around to
a dominant defensive tackle into Forest Buckner and a really
(01:31):
good detackle next to.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Him and Grover Stewart.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
And you know then, I mean even you look look
at the veteran end of it. They trade a guy
in Mazzie Smith who was a game day inactive for
him and get a really good veteran back in Kenny Clark.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
So is it going to help the Cowboys like right now?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
No, I don't think it makes them a playoff team
in twenty twenty five, But I think it does position
them to build pretty aggressively, maybe keep George Pickens and
you know.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Really take a big swing in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
What do you think what the Colts did? Speaking of
big swings.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So what's interesting about the Colts is they pushed the
chips in the middle of the table on the core
that they have now right, so like they're.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Basically at the spot now.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
They're coaches in his third year, they're gms in his
sixth year, and so they've got this core of players
that they really believe in. Right, So the offensive line,
it's Nelson, it's Smith, it's Raymond, it's Tyler Warren. At receiver,
it's Downs, it's it's Pierce, it's Pittman obviously, Jonathan Taylor,
and running back veteran.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Players like Buckner and Franklin.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
In the front seven, you've got, you know, a really
a really good young player in Latu Lotsu at defensive end.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So you're really pushing your chips into the.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Middle of the table on those guys, But in particular,
you're pushing your chips to the middle of the table
on Daniel Jones.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Like because to me, this takes.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Away you're opportunity to go and get a quarterback over
the next.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Few years, right, because how you probably.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Do that as you spend high draft picks, either to
take them in the draft or to trade for that quarterback,
and without first round picks the next two years, it's
going to become much harder to acquire one. Which tells
you they're all in on Daniel Jones. Puts pressure on
them to sign Daniel Jones, but it tells you that
they think Daniel Jones is more than just an answer
for twenty twenty five. So that's what's so interesting about
(03:26):
it to me. And I do like what it means
for them in the here and the now, which is
this is a position that they were really looking for
help at over the last couple of weeks and probably
the weakest spot on the roster in that Pittsburgh game
the other day a few weeks. For now, it's gonna
be the biggest strength, one of the biggest strengths in
the roster with Sauce Gardner on one side and sure
Various Ward coming back from injury.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
On the other side.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Both those guys are versatile, They'll be able to match
against different receivers, and they'll allowed.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
For lou In a Romo to be more creative with
what he's doing up front.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So all the way around, I love it for what
it means for them for twenty twenty five, but it
really does mean they're in on this core and they're
in on Daniel Jones going for beyond just this.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Year, and it feels like if I'm the Colts, I'm
building my team, reinforcing my team to beat the Chiefs,
just like it felt like the Ravens built their roster
with Ausie Newsom to beat the Steelers, and they figured
if they're beating the competition their own division, they're good
enough to win a Super Bowl? Are the Colts built
(04:28):
to beat the Chiefs?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Right now? That's the way it looks.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think if you're going to have
a chance against the Chiefs, we've seen it over the
last five years. The way to beat the Chiefs is
you have to disrupt their passing game and you have
to hit Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
And that's like, that's the.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Way it is with all great quarterbacks, right, like the
greatest of all time, Tom Brady. How would you beat
the Patriots back over those twenty years. You would beat
them by beating their offensive line.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
And beating up Tom Brady.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
And so I think by going and getting Sauce Gardner
and ge and getting Ward back from injury, you know,
now you've got an opportunity to create chaos up front, right,
and so they're gonna be able to do so much
more with their with their defensive front.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And you know, the.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Hope is then the doubt that allows you to get
in Patrick Mahomes's face, disrupt the timing of their offense
and maybe get them playing from behind a little bit
more than.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
They would like to.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
So, yeah, I can certainly see that, Dan, if that's
your takeaway where this would be very you know, very
chief centric move by the Colts.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Give me the team that surprised you that they didn't
make a move.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Seattle makes some move, you know, the Rams, I would say,
the Rams. I I thought, like, you know, coming into this, like,
look at their biggest need over the first half of
the year has been corner, and they did make a
move there. They they traded for Roger McCrary, brought him
over from from from Tennessee.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I thought the.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Buffalo Buffalo I thought was going to make a move
or needed to.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Yeah, so those two, like the Rams. Like the reason
I say the Rams right is the Rams because because
they had.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Really kept their powder dry, you know, like over the
last few years they had kind of reset and the
whole FM picks thing, Like now all of a sudden,
they they're getting you know, big production guys in the
first round. They're using first round picks his capital in
a different way. And so like, you know, I remember
talking to guys there where it was like we still
(06:30):
had this in US. It's just going to take the
right opportunity coming along. So them not being as aggressive,
I think that surprised me just a little bit, although
I still I have them in the super Bowl, so
I'm not gonna be too critical of them. And then
the Bills are my other team in the super Bowl,
and I think the one thing I did expect to
happen yesterday, I was expecting the Bills to make a
(06:53):
move for a defensive tackle because that Oliver is out
until at least the playoffs, and it's no short thing
that they're going to get him back in the playoff
depending on that biceps injury. So yes, they were snipping
around a receiver, and I thought Shaheed would have really
worked for them. The price was relatively high for Shahed,
but defensive tackle was one spot where I really thought
they would at least add someone, and so the fact
(07:14):
that they didn't do that did get my attention a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Albert Breer, Monday Morning Quarterback, their senior NFL reporter, Why
didn't the Raiders trade Max Crosby.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Because he's still he's twenty eight, I think twenty seven
to twenty eight, so they still view him as a
piece of their like long term future.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
He's not just a short term guy for them. This
isn't you know.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Miles Garrett, for example, turns thirty at the end of
this year, so I think you can question whether or
not he be, you know, a part of the Browns
or at least still what he is whenever they get
good again, right, you know, Trey Hendrickson with the Bengals, like,
if you don't believe they're gonna win this year, well,
he's you know, thirty one years old and in a
contract year. The scenario with Max a little different, where
(08:00):
he's still young enough where you could see getting good
enough fast enough, to getting good enough fast enough where
he's still got a chunk of his prime left, and
you're contending. I think the other element here too is
I think that front office didn't want to screw the
coaching staff. And I think that's really an element that's
(08:22):
been in play with them, you know, across their roster,
where they wanted to be careful because they knew that
roster is really deficient in a lot of different places,
and they didn't want to put themselves. They want to
put their coaches in a position where it was difficult
to establish the program over the continue to establish the
program over the next couple of months and have a
(08:44):
chance to hit the ground running into twenty twenty six.
Because they just don't have enough players to make it work.
So they weren't going to give away Jacoby Myers. They
wind up trading him, but that leaves them really Razor
Thinn at receiver. And you know, Eric Stokes is another
guy that they were reluctant to move.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Got a lot of calls on him as a corner.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
But like it was just at the point where it's like,
if we deal them off, like we're really gonna have
to get good value because we're putting our coaches in
a tough spot.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
At that position if if we let them go.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
And we're talking again about Eric Stokes and Jacoby Myers,
what kind of spot are you putting your coaches in
if you if you trade away Max Crosby.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
I think that was an element in all this too.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
How would you feel for your jets ban today?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I would feel like, I hope my owner is patient,
you know what I mean? Like, because I think that's
that's the catch twenty two about this whole of this
whole thing is like what Darren Mousey and Aaron Glenn
did I think is going to demand patients and that
ownership does not have a great history of being patient,
and so like will they be patient if it looks
(09:50):
this way again next year? Because the Jets have really
kind of gone all in on young players.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That said, I think that there's good logic to what
they did, you know, because I think there's like a recognition.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
We don't have the quarterback right now, and we weren't
winning with this group.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
And yes, we had a top five defense the last
three years in a row, but the defense wasn't very
good this year, and you know, like we are going
to need capital to find our quarterback over the next
couple of years. And if you look at it too,
I mean they didn't strip it bear. That's the thing
is like this was a fire sale because they give
away two like franchise level players, but then start to
(10:27):
go down the list of players they still have there
that Garrett Wilson receiver. We'll see if Briess Hall's back
at running back. They've got two young tackles that were
drafted in the top half of the first round in
old Fashanu and armand Membu they have two young defensive
ends that were drafted in the first round and Jermaine
Johnson and Will McDonald. They've got a linebacker they just
resigned in Jimine Sherwood.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
There is some building blocks there.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
And now like as those guys get a little bit older,
and as those guys, some of those guys come off
of rookie contracts, they're gonna have an ability to build
behind those guys with premium young talent. So I look
at that and I see they're set up with two
first round picks and two second round picks in the
twenty sixth drafts.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
So that'll give them a chance to get better next year.
And then they have three first round picks.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And this is really the key in the twenty twenty
seven draft. And just talking to people, you know in
NFL circles, they aren't wild about next year's draft class.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
But the one after that.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Jeremiah Smith, Ryan Williams, Colin Simmons, Dylan Stewart, Leonard Moore
and then young quarterbacks. Arch Manning could be in that class.
Dylan Rayola could be in that class.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
You know.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
CJ.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Carr at Notre Dame could be in that class. Julian
sayan could be in that class, Like, you've really set
yourself up now where if you're patient, you have a
chance to build a good roster over the next year
and a half, maybe add your quarterback in twenty seven
and have a young quarterback coming. I knew a roster
that that's already pretty good. That'd be the optimistic Jets
fan view of it. If your owner has enough patience
(11:54):
to see out that.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Plan, Well, all right, it actually sounds plausible you should
work or the Jets you should work in pr there
putting that.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Out and say that Dan, I don't know, I don't
think what he would agree with you on that, I'll
put it that way.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
But if you're gonna predict Kyler Murray's future, what would
it be?
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Ye?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
So he's got guaranteed money next year, which is sort
of the problem, right, Like, so is he going to
be the Cardinals quarterback in twenty twenty seven?
Speaker 7 (12:23):
No?
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Like, how do they handle this?
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Is? Can he be someone's reclamation project next year? Will
somebody be willing to take on the money? That'd be
the big question, because I think when you when you
start to look at like, all right, like if someone's
looking for their version of Daniel Jones or Baker Mayfield
or Sam Darnold next year like in the spring, and
say you don't like the quarterback class, who are you
(12:46):
looking at? And Kyler Murray would be one of the
people that one of the players that I think will
be in that category, maybe two will be in that category.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
With whoever's in charge of the Dolphins, you.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Know, making a decision on that, you know, and and
and the winner in the spring.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Who would you rather have? Kyler Murray or Tua Tua?
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Probably I don't know, Well who would you rather have?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Is there another option? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I mean, like I think, like the problem with Kyler's
in spectacular talent, Like my problem with Kyler would be,
like I think all the criticism of Kyler for a
spectacular some of the stuff that he does is.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
You know, I mentioned this on another show the other day,
where like he has this.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Tendency to bail out of the pocket and play out
of structure a lot, and it looks great, you know
at times, but it kind of like it it was
the same criticism you had on Shador when he was
coming out, which is like it kind of like the
way he plays can kind of put some of the
other players on offense in a tough spot, and I
think that's reflected by the way Jacoby Brissett has come
in and just played the position, you know, like Marvin
(13:53):
Harrison all of a sudden looks pretty good, right, Trey
McBride has looked great, Like the offensive line doesn't look
so bad, Like different elements of their offense have really
started to come together with Jacoby in there, which I
think informs you if they're the Cardinals, right, it tells
you like, if we can just get average quarterback play,
we might be all right. So I'd say with both
those guys, with Tua and Kyler, you know, I think
(14:17):
that either they're back as bridge quarterbacks where they are
now next year, or there's someone else's bridge quarterback in
twenty twenty six because the guaranteed money really complicates things,
and things in both cases.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Is Indiana currently the best football state in the country
if I include college and pro, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
So, I think it was Fritzy that that that asked
me that when I was coming on, and I would
really have to think about it, because the one thing
that popped into my head was California with if you
if you look at where the Niners are, where the
Rams are, where the Chargers are. USC is pretty good, right,
(15:00):
So UCLA is terrible, and I think Stanford and Cal
are pretty irrelevant to the conversation. But is USC close
enough or are we greater this on a scale where
like just because Indiana's two teams?
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Because are you including for doing that? No? I mean,
so then eliminated Stanford and Cal.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I'm not making the rules here. I was just saying,
if I go, oh, I got Indiana at two, I
got Notre Dame, and I got so I got the Colts.
Do you have three that would compete with those three?
If I said you had to have two college or
one pro.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
RAM or two college and one pro.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, so you took I took the Niners of the
Chargers private.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
That's close, right.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But you're going to take the rams overall rams have.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And then either the Niners of the Chargers and USC.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Okay, that's pretty good, right. Well, I got Notre Dame
and I got Indiana, and then I got the Colts.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Right, so you probably still win there. You probably still
win there.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I can't say Ohio because you came Ohio State's way
up here.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Then yeah, how did a guy from Massachusetts end at
end up in Ohio State Because.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
My dad went to Michigan and my grandfather went to
Michigan and my great grandfather went to Michigan and on
the black sheet.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Wait, you went to Ohio State to spite them?
Speaker 4 (16:31):
No, I didn't get into miche so f them.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Wow wow yeah, because I was. I have like my
dad's from Detroit. All my family I always saw like
so like for me growing up and like like having
that kind of like everybody in my dad's side of
the family went to either Michigan or Michigan State, So
I grew up around that, like even though I didn't
grow up there, like that was like kids around here,
(16:58):
like kids who grow up here, like their idea of
college is like some you know, liberal arts school in
the mountains, you know what I mean. Like my idea
college was like probably what your idea was of college
growing up in Dayton, right, Like it's these big, hulking,
big ten campuses.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So I always wanted to go to one.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And you know, a really good friend of mine, a
high school teammate of mine, went to Ohio Stays a
year older than me, and he was a priority walk.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
On in the football team there.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
His name was Eddie Brown, still lives in Columbus. His
daughter played soccer at Oklahoma and Creighton, and so Eddie
brought me out my senior year in high school's freshman
year at Ohio State. I honestly, like it was very
easy to you've been to Columbus, very easy to fall
in love with that place. I had high boards and
(17:46):
low grades in high school, and let's just say, Ohio
State wasn't as hard.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
To get into then as it is now.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
And I thought, because I was a legacy, I'd get
into Michigan.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
And it didn't work out for me.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So that's the that's the short version of the story.
But it all worked out for the best.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I'd say, did you cry when Michigan said no?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
No, I sort of.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I mean I knew I did that to myself, you know,
like I knew, I knew. I thought I'd get in,
but like I thought, like maybe, because again, like you're
your a legacy like that, like I maybe they would
let me in. But I also knew, like I screwed
around enough in high school to mess that up, which
(18:28):
you know, which is fine. Like again, like it worked
out for the best. I'm I'm more than happy where
I went to school.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
That's uh. That's one of those things where maybe when
you expect it the least things work out for the best.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Great to talk to you again, Thank you, Albert, all right,
Thanks Dan, Albert Breer Monday Morning Quarterback.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
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Speaker 7 (18:55):
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Speaker 6 (19:08):
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Speaker 2 (19:25):
Well look who's back. Dodger manager Dave Roberts another World
Series title. Didn't need to make a proclamation in spring training,
didn't have to do any of that stuff. Just an
easy seven games and there you are winning again. I
guess can you compare the back to back, the different
(19:45):
feelings that you had.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
Well, I'm glad your ho hum about it. It was
very difficult. Winning a championship is very difficult. Winning two
is even tougher. No, I mean, there's nothing like games Evan,
and a lot of things had happened.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Guys stepped up, and I'm just prout of the guys
it was.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
There's a lot of pressure points in that series, in
the postseason and certainly in the World Series. But it
certainly wasn't easy. And yeah, we've done something that hadn't
been done in twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
But you look at pressure and we we could see pressure.
It was tangible when you're watching Game seven. But the
pressure too, you're supposed to win, expected to win by
you know, the media, of the you know, fans. It
feels like that the difference in being an underdog in
winning like when you won with the Red Sox as
a player, to winning when you're the favorite. The different
(20:43):
kind of pressures are feeling that.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
You have with that, Yeah, you know, I guess, you know,
I don't know. I guess The thing about sports is, yeah,
everyone's got opinions.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
But you know, the David and Goliath narrative.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
Fans, media put things together that just aren't true, and
to be quite honest, people that have never been in
the ring. And the Blue Jays were a very good team.
They won the al least they won more baseball games
than we did. But we're Goliath, and so it was
a great series and we were trying to win the series.
(21:20):
They were trying to win a World Series. I don't
think he was pressure. I think that what happens is
as athletes, as teams, you have expectations and goals for yourself,
and you know, you don't want more for yourself than
I think than fans do. You want to win, You
expect to win. So I don't think that our pressure
(21:41):
or pressure from the fans or media had any bearing
on the game. We were trying to win for each
other in the city of Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Give me the move that maybe you were going to
second guess yourself in Game seven and you didn't.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
Probably, Well, the easiest one is hitting for got Ross.
He's a defensive guy. I inserted him in Game six
to add some infusion and energy into our club.
Speaker 6 (22:09):
And yeah, that's that's probably the one.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
But you know, looking at the bench, it's tough to
pinch hit, and anyone can say and you were probably
second guessing me saying you should hit for him, and
because the numbers say that, there's other guys that can
hit home runs in this but it's hard to come
off the bench. And I trusted my players, and you know,
he made me look good and he deserved that moment.
And in the postseason, what I have learned Dan is
(22:34):
you know, it's not about the numbers. You gotta trust
your players. And my job is to know the players.
That's my job. Ultimately, that's my job. It's not to
know statistics. It's about to know the heartbeat of the player.
And I do believe that, you know, to win eleven
or this year thirteen games in October, you've got to
trust your players, to know your players, and that's what
we did.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
But so you're saying gut feeling still has a place
in the game. It feels like we're so attached to analytics.
How much of what you did in Game seven was
gut as opposed to analytics.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
It's it's all got I think that if you look
back at twenty twenty four in the postseason, it's the
eye test.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
It's gut.
Speaker 7 (23:12):
But people, if you look at twenty twenty, it's eye test,
it's got People can't get off the analytics for some reason.
So these are people that are just stuck in their
ways and you're never going to change them. But if
people that really want to, that really watched the game
and know the game, then they can see that analytics
had nothing. It's about, you know, coaches trusting their players
(23:35):
and players stepping up in big moments.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
When you saw the collision in left center with pyos In,
Key k what I.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Was a prayer's r answer, and I was unbelievable. You know,
they both went after it. Kik was trying to make
his Willie Mays play. Pahes was just inserted and just
made a next level, big moment play. And it's funny
because Key Kate laid down there for dead and Pats
(24:04):
asked me if he was okay, and he says, forget that.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
Do you have the ball?
Speaker 7 (24:09):
And he said, yes, I do have the ball and
he goes he got up and ran into the dugout.
So it was but again, and it's like Miguel Ross
coming out of Game seven, because he just expended all energy.
It's like that's just what fans lived for. And that's
what our players gave both teams.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
The play at the plate. How close that was? Are
you ready then to ask for replay?
Speaker 6 (24:33):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (24:34):
That was like I was asking for replay right from
the get go, or if they would have called it,
say for sure? And I was with Will Smith last
night and he goes, I honestly did not realize that
I took my foot off the plate to then have
the wherewithal to put it down. And that's the thing,
is that, but even the play for me to take it,
to lose momentum and then to regain to make a
(24:55):
good throw for Will to field it, get his.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
Foot back down. I mean, god, it's a heartache series.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Talking to Dave Roberts, Dodger manager, Yamamoto reminded me of Pedro.
Remind me of Pedro Martinez. I are they similar build,
similar size and.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
Very similar build, very similar size, you know obviously Pedro,
you know, sort of a similar mix. If you say
the split is Pedro's changeup and just same mindset. You
know Pedro on game days, I've never seen. He's an
assassin and Yamamoto is an assassin. What he did is
(25:40):
stuff like Pedro asked, Sandy Kofasque asked, obviously what.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Mad bummed in? I did?
Speaker 7 (25:46):
And I don't know if it was twenty twelve or
twenty fourteen, one of those Giants years, but yeah, I mean,
this is the guy that, yeah, not physical, but his mind,
Dan is just pretty spectacular.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
But if you would have said, hey, beginning of the series,
a Japanese born player is gonna win MVP.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Joe Hey all day?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, all day. But what did you learn about him
in this World Series or in the playoffs that maybe
you didn't know?
Speaker 7 (26:14):
Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, not the World Series, the playoffs.
So I actually I knew that he's a killer. I
knew it this guy, and he showed that, you know,
this year, having just a tremendous years being a stop perforce,
pitching huge and big games, going complete game. Doing what
he did in Milwaukee was incredible, complete games. One run,
(26:38):
I think the first Yeah, gives up a solo homer,
a leadoff homer, then goes nine innings shut after that,
then the next game, complete game, and then in game three,
eighteen innings, I think he was like thirteenth inning, He's like,
I'm ready to go down there. I'm not going to
let a position player pitch in the game in a
(27:00):
World Series game, and this is a one day off
and so that showed me a lot.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Freddy walks it off.
Speaker 7 (27:06):
And then so yesterday or Game seven obviously was no surprise,
but to go three innings was incredible.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
But o Tani and your you say him throughout the season,
ramping him up. Uh, was he coming in in game
seven or we started getting Yeah?
Speaker 7 (27:22):
No, no, because he started Game seven okay. And then
so once he was done, he gave us three innings
and then I was like, you know what, I think
he just wasn't a sharp Get him off the pitching,
lock in on the hitting, and then we had some
marms behind him.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I thought the way you ramped him up the entire
season was interesting. You know, when you have that kind
of talent, but you know he's got two innings or
he's got three, Like you, you got to be careful
that you don't get greedy in a situation. I guess
like that you do, and.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
It was it's hard not to be greedy.
Speaker 7 (27:53):
But we went one inning, we remain steadfast one and
he won in two innings, two innings, three innings, and
then you know at the end that was the first
time because all year he had seven, eight, nine, ten
days of rest. So game seven was the first time
he ever went on three days rest. So that's why
you know, this guy's coming off to Tommy John's he is,
(28:15):
he's our team MVP, and so he's two players and
one so we couldn't get greed with him. So three days.
It wasn't terribly sharp. He gave us three nings. That
was that was plenty.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Clayton Kershaw is joining us tomorrow.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Nice, What should.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I bring up to him?
Speaker 7 (28:34):
Oh my gosh, you know, I think was in game
seven he was it was either going to be the
next hitter or certainly if they tied it up, if
Kirk tied it up right there, Kirk Clayton was going
to take.
Speaker 6 (28:50):
The next sitting.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
How nervous were you when he was on the mound.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
That I was nervous in that game? Game three?
Speaker 7 (28:58):
Game three, I bring in a basis loaded situation, and
it goes back to again, it goes back to trust
your players. Clayton and I have been through so much
in my ten years with him, eighteen years obviously in
his career and We've had some loads, certainly together and
we had some highs. But again, I'm gonna if it's
(29:19):
gonna go down, I'm gonna I'm gonna bet on playing
Kershaw and I've proved that time.
Speaker 6 (29:23):
And time again.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
How was the celebration?
Speaker 6 (29:26):
Oh, so last year was insane.
Speaker 7 (29:29):
We didn't get it in twenty twenty, so it sort
of kind of butted up together in twenty four. But
last yesterday's parade or two days Agos parade was it
was the best. The bet they did, they one up themselves,
more people, a longer parade route. Players were just over Jordan.
(29:50):
It was fantastic.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Damn you getting used to this?
Speaker 7 (29:55):
I would say it's it's I enjoy it. I wouldn't
say get used to it. We already talked about the
players already talked about a three p I talked about
a three peat. So I'm not making any guarantees, but
I already cleared it with pat Riley on the three
pet term.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
So we're excited. I just think with us, you got
to find some carrot. You know.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
It's like we started out in South Korean twenty four,
finished in the Bronx, started out in Tokyo. Finish in Canada.
And so we've had the longest season, the shortest offseason
of anyone, travel the most mile. So you've got to
have some carrot to keep our guys focused and motivated.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
So the three pet is it for us?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah? I mean you shouldn't. You want to win, you
expect to win.
Speaker 6 (30:40):
That's right, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
Congrats, Thank you, Dan, I appreciate you man.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
All right, enjoy your offseason.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
All right, take care and tell Clayton I said hello tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
All righty, that's Dave Roberts did it again.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Sam Smith Phil Jackson co authors of Masters of the Game,
a conversational history of the NBA, and it's seventy five
legendary players. Sam of course covers the Bulls, He's done
so since nineteen eighty seven. He gave us the Jordan rules,
and of course Phil Jackson eleven time NBA champ and
(31:28):
they join us. Now, Phil, you know you have all
of these different players, all these different chapters where you
and Sam are just talking back and forth about them,
giving your thoughts in a conversational tone. Give me the
player that you had the most fun talking about in
this book.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
Well, I think we could have gone on forever about
Dennis Rodman, but I would say some of the guys
that I didn't coach, So the guys that you know
have a check and players that you know competed against
and had admiration for.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Sam give me the player in the book that more
people should know about.
Speaker 9 (32:12):
You know, I think one who gets overlooked so much
is Rick Barry. You know, people know Rick Barry. I
don't think they appreciate how great Rick Rick Barry, you know,
in my view, could have been. You know, Steph Curry
with his shooting ability. He was such an all around
versatile player who for various reasons, was so universally disliked.
(32:35):
But you know, one of the interesting things, Phil went
on a lot of State Department tours back then, and
he was on one with Rick, and I remember one
Phil was telling we were talking about one with Pete
Maravich where and I know the history books don't reflect
this actually, but Pete basically opened China before Richard Nixon.
Because I think on some of the State Department tours.
(32:56):
You know, Pete stribbling and passing and playing, you know,
so excited some of the communities in China and phil
what we were talking about. And that was another I
know they know Pete Maravich, but you know, they don't
know in this era. And to me, that was part
That was really what the book's about, that these guys
(33:18):
sort of lost to history as much gets But I
believe and I think when you see Jokic now and
you see Don Kitch, these guys could have played in
any era, including this era, and I don't think that
is appreciated. And that was that was a big part
of my interest in the book.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It feels like the NBA started when Magic and Larry
showed up. So you had players in the sixties, certainly
in the seventies. They missed out on the TV era,
and I think Kareem the better years of his career
he missed out, or at least we missed out. But
what do you remember about Kareem.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
Yeah, this is a guy who had, you know, a
body that could survive playing in this game for twenty
some years. Not too many guys can even shoot the
step hook as a jump hook or two foot takeoff,
and Kareem was able to perfect this shot. He was
(34:18):
able to play with a certain amount of grace. His
defense was always criticized and his rebounding perhaps as a shortcoming,
but his scoring was never He was a great scorer,
and he was the guy that held himself together quite
well off the court as well as on.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
We're talking to Sam Smith and Phil Jackson. The book
is Masters of the Game, a conversational history of the
NBA the seventy five legendary players. So was there somebody
that you wanted to include that you didn't.
Speaker 9 (34:54):
We used the NBA's top seventy five and you know,
no offense, but I thought there were too many, But
it was seventy five years. They had to go in
seventy five, you know. Sort of the controversial if it
would be named, was Dwight Howard. But he's a Hall
of Famer. You know, people look at it as a
(35:15):
negative when you say, well, he wasn't deserving it being
the Hall of Famer. You know, a top seventy five,
and I thought some of the seventy five, you know,
Damian Lillard, no offense. I didn't think he was the
top seventy five player. I think there was some recent,
you know, recency bias in the list, but they had
to get the seventy five. I think it was overall
(35:37):
a pretty good list. You know, I ended up being
on the panel. I know Phil doesn't like to select
ranked people, and we didn't rank people in this and
I think that's another thing that's different. You know, it's
not the debate who's number one, who's number two. You know,
it's a look at the history of it. So I
think it's a fairly good list overall.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Phil.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Over the years, it feels like your relationship with Scottie
Pippen has been complicated. Can you expound upon that.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Well, I was assistant coach when Scotty came into the game,
and I played with him and against him one on
one and tried to help his game out a little bit.
And I was big in promoting Scotty because you know,
we had Scotty coming off the bench and I had
(36:27):
to sub in as a coach for Doug Collins when
he got thrown out of a game, and that was
like the immediate thing I did. I put Scotty in
the game and up the pressure defense because this is
one of the best defensive players ever to play the game.
So I had a lot of admiration for him and
had a lot of contact with him. He was the
(36:49):
on court guy that I alerted all the time when
defensive strategies would come, double teams, traps, et cetera. Whistle,
Hey Scottie, it's time whatever. So yeah, it was shocking
to hear the comments that he made, but he had
(37:10):
a situation that was coming off the bench, not being
able to play the last few seconds of the basketball
game that was critical and it made a big change
in his life. Michael called the next day from baseball
and said, I don't know Scotty'll ever be able to
live this sound. And I think it's been a hard
(37:32):
thing to live down, you know, refusing to go on
the ballgame because things didn't go your way.
Speaker 9 (37:37):
Michael and I wanted to add something briefly with that.
I thought it was really poignant.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
You know.
Speaker 9 (37:44):
Phil's kept a good relationship with Michael. I've seen him occasionally.
We don't chat as much as he and Phil Mike,
and when some of those things came out, we talked
about this in the book that Philip asked Michael about
that and Michael really expressed regret. I thought it was
really poignant that Michael told fell that he feels terrible
(38:06):
about losing the relationship with Scottie, you know, a twenty
twenty five year relationship that was closer than a lot
of people thought. And so yeah, it struck me as
really poignant that Michael felt a loss about this filled.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
The Dennis Rodman relationship certainly different, but it almost felt
like you had these big personalities and you gave everybody
almost their own longitude and latitude. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 5 (38:35):
We had a team that was without a power forward
when Michael came back to play after his baseball stint,
and you know, we put on a list of power
forwards that could be or would be capable of filling
that role, and we came up with Dennis Robin as
(38:59):
the only one that really fit the bill. We traded
Will Purdue for him and it wasn't a big money thing.
And after meeting Dennis and knowing who he was, I
addressed the team as we're all adults, there's got to
be exception for some players. This guy's not going to
(39:20):
come to the games on time. He doesn't shoot, he
doesn't go out and shoot around. So he's asked me
if he can come a half hour late, so he'll
be fine. We'll find him, like the NBA wants to
find players for not being there an hour and a
half before the game, and at the end of the year,
(39:41):
he'll pay the fine of whatever it was, two five
hundred dollars or whatever. But these are exceptions that we're
going to have to live with with this guy, and
I think his talent overways. What's going to happen as
we go together towards winning a championship?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Phil, give me the player you wish you had coached?
Speaker 5 (40:02):
Wow, I think a lot of There are a lot
of players that you look at and say, what a
terrific player this guy is. He's overall, but I think
Latners is like one of the guys I thought never
really got to play the way he was capable of
playing in the NBA. I would have liked to coach
(40:22):
guy like that that has his talent, had some leadership ability,
maybe never blossomed as an.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
NBA player, Sam, who do you think changed the game more?
Michael Jordan or Steph Curry.
Speaker 9 (40:38):
Michael Jordan, partially because I'm still with the bulls, so
I have to say that that's in my contract. But
the greatest thing, you know, I sometimes say, you know,
this guy shot better than Michael, passed better back, and
there's every skill they.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
Did better Michael.
Speaker 9 (40:55):
How could be the greatest player?
Speaker 3 (40:57):
You know?
Speaker 9 (40:57):
Part of it is not just you know, Michael changed world.
You know, long shorts men could be bald. You know,
bald was good. Bald was never good before earrings, the shoes,
the fashion. Michael's influence about the world way transcended basketball.
And you know that's part of the equation. So I
don't think anybody could ever rival Michael with the combination
(41:20):
of his play.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Good luck with the book. It was an easy read.
It was a fun read, and I learned a few
things about some of those players that I didn't get
a chance to see when I was growing up. Phil,
I think I saw you at the Cincinnati Gardens when
the Knicks came to town against the Royals. But thanks
again Sam, great to see it, Phil, Thank you as well,
and good luck with the book.
Speaker 6 (41:44):
Thanks Ton, Thank to see it thirty years again.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Thank you, Sam.
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
He is the Monday morning quarterback. Senior NFL reporter Albert
Breer is back. We always want to know who won
and who lost. Here, Uh, let's start with that. The
immediate reaction to who won the trade deadline?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Oh, I, you know, that's a good question because I
think some man of these teams are in such different positions,
and so, you know, what the Colts did conceptually is
so different than what the than what the Jets did.
You know, you know, I really actually like where the
Cowboys are at now because I think they come out
of the mosaic right of the Micah Parsons Quinn Williams situation,
(00:48):
and if you like, really like add the whole thing
up right, they got a year and a half older
with a key defensive player. They have a disruptive defensive
tackle instead of a disruptive edge. Now, they save about
twenty million dollars a year on the contract, and they
move a second round pick into the first round. So
(01:09):
if you look at the totality of it, if they're
able to maximize quinnin Williams, now you've got quote Quentin
Williams and Osa Digiezuwa to be the foundation of your
defense that you're trying to build with Maddie Eberflus. There,
Maddie Eberflus's best defenses in Indianapolis were built around to
a dominant defensive tackle into Forest Buckner and a really
(01:31):
good detackle next to.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Him and Grover Stewart.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
And you know then, I mean even you look look
at the veteran end of it. They trade a guy
in Mazzie Smith who was a game day inactive for
him and get a really good veteran back in Kenny Clark.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
So is it going to help the Cowboys like right now?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
No, I don't think it makes them a playoff team
in twenty twenty five, But I think it does position
them to build pretty aggressively, maybe keep George Pickens and
you know.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Really take a big swing in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
What do you think what the Colts did? Speaking of
big swings.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So what's interesting about the Colts is they pushed the
chips in the middle of the table on the core
that they have now right, so like they're.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Basically at the spot now.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
They're coaches in his third year, they're gms in his
sixth year, and so they've got this core of players
that they really believe in. Right, So the offensive line,
it's Nelson, it's Smith, it's Raymond, it's Tyler Warren. At receiver,
it's Downs, it's it's Pierce, it's Pittman obviously, Jonathan Taylor,
and running back veteran.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Players like Buckner and Franklin.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
In the front seven, you've got, you know, a really
a really good young player in Latu Lotsu at defensive end.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So you're really pushing your chips into the.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Middle of the table on those guys, But in particular,
you're pushing your chips to the middle of the table
on Daniel Jones.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Like because to me, this takes.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Away you're opportunity to go and get a quarterback over
the next.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Few years, right, because how you probably.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Do that as you spend high draft picks, either to
take them in the draft or to trade for that quarterback,
and without first round picks the next two years, it's
going to become much harder to acquire one. Which tells
you they're all in on Daniel Jones. Puts pressure on
them to sign Daniel Jones, but it tells you that
they think Daniel Jones is more than just an answer
for twenty twenty five. So that's what's so interesting about
(03:26):
it to me. And I do like what it means
for them in the here and the now, which is
this is a position that they were really looking for
help at over the last couple of weeks and probably
the weakest spot on the roster in that Pittsburgh game
the other day a few weeks. For now, it's gonna
be the biggest strength, one of the biggest strengths in
the roster with Sauce Gardner on one side and sure
Various Ward coming back from injury.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
On the other side.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Both those guys are versatile, They'll be able to match
against different receivers, and they'll allowed.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
For lou In a Romo to be more creative with
what he's doing up front.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So all the way around, I love it for what
it means for them for twenty twenty five, but it
really does mean they're in on this core and they're
in on Daniel Jones going for beyond just this.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Year, and it feels like if I'm the Colts, I'm
building my team, reinforcing my team to beat the Chiefs,
just like it felt like the Ravens built their roster
with Ausie Newsom to beat the Steelers, and they figured
if they're beating the competition their own division, they're good
enough to win a Super Bowl? Are the Colts built
(04:28):
to beat the Chiefs?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Right now? That's the way it looks.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think if you're going to have
a chance against the Chiefs, we've seen it over the
last five years. The way to beat the Chiefs is
you have to disrupt their passing game and you have
to hit Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
And that's like, that's the.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Way it is with all great quarterbacks, right, like the
greatest of all time, Tom Brady. How would you beat
the Patriots back over those twenty years. You would beat
them by beating their offensive line.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
And beating up Tom Brady.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
And so I think by going and getting Sauce Gardner
and ge and getting Ward back from injury, you know,
now you've got an opportunity to create chaos up front, right,
and so they're gonna be able to do so much
more with their with their defensive front.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And you know, the.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Hope is then the doubt that allows you to get
in Patrick Mahomes's face, disrupt the timing of their offense
and maybe get them playing from behind a little bit
more than.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
They would like to.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
So, yeah, I can certainly see that, Dan, if that's
your takeaway where this would be very you know, very
chief centric move by the Colts.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Give me the team that surprised you that they didn't
make a move.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Seattle makes some move, you know, the Rams, I would say,
the Rams. I I thought, like, you know, coming into this, like,
look at their biggest need over the first half of
the year has been corner, and they did make a
move there. They they traded for Roger McCrary, brought him
over from from from Tennessee.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I thought the.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Buffalo Buffalo I thought was going to make a move
or needed to.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Yeah, so those two, like the Rams. Like the reason
I say the Rams right is the Rams because because
they had.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Really kept their powder dry, you know, like over the
last few years they had kind of reset and the
whole FM picks thing, Like now all of a sudden,
they they're getting you know, big production guys in the
first round. They're using first round picks his capital in
a different way. And so like, you know, I remember
talking to guys there where it was like we still
(06:30):
had this in US. It's just going to take the
right opportunity coming along. So them not being as aggressive,
I think that surprised me just a little bit, although
I still I have them in the super Bowl, so
I'm not gonna be too critical of them. And then
the Bills are my other team in the super Bowl,
and I think the one thing I did expect to
happen yesterday, I was expecting the Bills to make a
(06:53):
move for a defensive tackle because that Oliver is out
until at least the playoffs, and it's no short thing
that they're going to get him back in the playoff
depending on that biceps injury. So yes, they were snipping
around a receiver, and I thought Shaheed would have really
worked for them. The price was relatively high for Shahed,
but defensive tackle was one spot where I really thought
they would at least add someone, and so the fact
(07:14):
that they didn't do that did get my attention a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Albert Breer, Monday Morning Quarterback, their senior NFL reporter, Why
didn't the Raiders trade Max Crosby.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Because he's still he's twenty eight, I think twenty seven
to twenty eight, so they still view him as a
piece of their like long term future.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
He's not just a short term guy for them. This
isn't you know.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Miles Garrett, for example, turns thirty at the end of
this year, so I think you can question whether or
not he be, you know, a part of the Browns
or at least still what he is whenever they get
good again, right, you know, Trey Hendrickson with the Bengals, like,
if you don't believe they're gonna win this year, well,
he's you know, thirty one years old and in a
contract year. The scenario with Max a little different, where
(08:00):
he's still young enough where you could see getting good
enough fast enough, to getting good enough fast enough where
he's still got a chunk of his prime left, and
you're contending. I think the other element here too is
I think that front office didn't want to screw the
coaching staff. And I think that's really an element that's
(08:22):
been in play with them, you know, across their roster,
where they wanted to be careful because they knew that
roster is really deficient in a lot of different places,
and they didn't want to put themselves. They want to
put their coaches in a position where it was difficult
to establish the program over the continue to establish the
program over the next couple of months and have a
(08:44):
chance to hit the ground running into twenty twenty six.
Because they just don't have enough players to make it work.
So they weren't going to give away Jacoby Myers. They
wind up trading him, but that leaves them really Razor
Thinn at receiver. And you know, Eric Stokes is another
guy that they were reluctant to move.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Got a lot of calls on him as a corner.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
But like it was just at the point where it's like,
if we deal them off, like we're really gonna have
to get good value because we're putting our coaches in
a tough spot.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
At that position if if we let them go.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
And we're talking again about Eric Stokes and Jacoby Myers,
what kind of spot are you putting your coaches in
if you if you trade away Max Crosby.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
I think that was an element in all this too.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
How would you feel for your jets ban today?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I would feel like, I hope my owner is patient,
you know what I mean? Like, because I think that's
that's the catch twenty two about this whole of this
whole thing is like what Darren Mousey and Aaron Glenn
did I think is going to demand patients and that
ownership does not have a great history of being patient,
and so like will they be patient if it looks
(09:50):
this way again next year? Because the Jets have really
kind of gone all in on young players.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That said, I think that there's good logic to what
they did, you know, because I think there's like a recognition.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
We don't have the quarterback right now, and we weren't
winning with this group.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
And yes, we had a top five defense the last
three years in a row, but the defense wasn't very
good this year, and you know, like we are going
to need capital to find our quarterback over the next
couple of years. And if you look at it too,
I mean they didn't strip it bear. That's the thing
is like this was a fire sale because they give
away two like franchise level players, but then start to
(10:27):
go down the list of players they still have there
that Garrett Wilson receiver. We'll see if Briess Hall's back
at running back. They've got two young tackles that were
drafted in the top half of the first round in
old Fashanu and armand Membu they have two young defensive
ends that were drafted in the first round and Jermaine
Johnson and Will McDonald. They've got a linebacker they just
resigned in Jimine Sherwood.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
There is some building blocks there.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
And now like as those guys get a little bit older,
and as those guys, some of those guys come off
of rookie contracts, they're gonna have an ability to build
behind those guys with premium young talent. So I look
at that and I see they're set up with two
first round picks and two second round picks in the
twenty sixth drafts.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
So that'll give them a chance to get better next year.
And then they have three first round picks.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And this is really the key in the twenty twenty
seven draft. And just talking to people, you know in
NFL circles, they aren't wild about next year's draft class.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
But the one after that.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Jeremiah Smith, Ryan Williams, Colin Simmons, Dylan Stewart, Leonard Moore
and then young quarterbacks. Arch Manning could be in that class.
Dylan Rayola could be in that class.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
You know.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
CJ.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Carr at Notre Dame could be in that class. Julian
sayan could be in that class, Like, you've really set
yourself up now where if you're patient, you have a
chance to build a good roster over the next year
and a half, maybe add your quarterback in twenty seven
and have a young quarterback coming. I knew a roster
that that's already pretty good. That'd be the optimistic Jets
fan view of it. If your owner has enough patience
(11:54):
to see out that.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Plan, Well, all right, it actually sounds plausible you should
work or the Jets you should work in pr there
putting that.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Out and say that Dan, I don't know, I don't
think what he would agree with you on that, I'll
put it that way.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
But if you're gonna predict Kyler Murray's future, what would
it be?
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Ye?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
So he's got guaranteed money next year, which is sort
of the problem, right, Like, so is he going to
be the Cardinals quarterback in twenty twenty seven?
Speaker 7 (12:23):
No?
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Like, how do they handle this?
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Is? Can he be someone's reclamation project next year? Will
somebody be willing to take on the money? That'd be
the big question, because I think when you when you
start to look at like, all right, like if someone's
looking for their version of Daniel Jones or Baker Mayfield
or Sam Darnold next year like in the spring, and
say you don't like the quarterback class, who are you
(12:46):
looking at? And Kyler Murray would be one of the
people that one of the players that I think will
be in that category, maybe two will be in that category.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
With whoever's in charge of the Dolphins, you.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Know, making a decision on that, you know, and and
and the winner in the spring.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Who would you rather have? Kyler Murray or Tua Tua?
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Probably I don't know, Well who would you rather have?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Is there another option? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I mean, like I think, like the problem with Kyler's
in spectacular talent, Like my problem with Kyler would be,
like I think all the criticism of Kyler for a
spectacular some of the stuff that he does is.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
You know, I mentioned this on another show the other day,
where like he has this.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Tendency to bail out of the pocket and play out
of structure a lot, and it looks great, you know
at times, but it kind of like it it was
the same criticism you had on Shador when he was
coming out, which is like it kind of like the
way he plays can kind of put some of the
other players on offense in a tough spot, and I
think that's reflected by the way Jacoby Brissett has come
in and just played the position, you know, like Marvin
(13:53):
Harrison all of a sudden looks pretty good, right, Trey
McBride has looked great, Like the offensive line doesn't look
so bad, Like different elements of their offense have really
started to come together with Jacoby in there, which I
think informs you if they're the Cardinals, right, it tells
you like, if we can just get average quarterback play,
we might be all right. So I'd say with both
those guys, with Tua and Kyler, you know, I think
(14:17):
that either they're back as bridge quarterbacks where they are
now next year, or there's someone else's bridge quarterback in
twenty twenty six because the guaranteed money really complicates things,
and things in both cases.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Is Indiana currently the best football state in the country
if I include college and pro, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
So, I think it was Fritzy that that that asked
me that when I was coming on, and I would
really have to think about it, because the one thing
that popped into my head was California with if you
if you look at where the Niners are, where the
Rams are, where the Chargers are. USC is pretty good, right,
(15:00):
So UCLA is terrible, and I think Stanford and Cal
are pretty irrelevant to the conversation. But is USC close
enough or are we greater this on a scale where
like just because Indiana's two teams?
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Because are you including for doing that? No? I mean,
so then eliminated Stanford and Cal.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I'm not making the rules here. I was just saying,
if I go, oh, I got Indiana at two, I
got Notre Dame, and I got so I got the Colts.
Do you have three that would compete with those three?
If I said you had to have two college or
one pro.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
RAM or two college and one pro.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, so you took I took the Niners of the
Chargers private.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
That's close, right.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But you're going to take the rams overall rams have.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And then either the Niners of the Chargers and USC.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Okay, that's pretty good, right. Well, I got Notre Dame
and I got Indiana, and then I got the Colts.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Right, so you probably still win there. You probably still
win there.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I can't say Ohio because you came Ohio State's way
up here.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Then yeah, how did a guy from Massachusetts end at
end up in Ohio State Because.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
My dad went to Michigan and my grandfather went to
Michigan and my great grandfather went to Michigan and on
the black sheet.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Wait, you went to Ohio State to spite them?
Speaker 4 (16:31):
No, I didn't get into miche so f them.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Wow wow yeah, because I was. I have like my
dad's from Detroit. All my family I always saw like
so like for me growing up and like like having
that kind of like everybody in my dad's side of
the family went to either Michigan or Michigan State, So
I grew up around that, like even though I didn't
grow up there, like that was like kids around here,
(16:58):
like kids who grow up here, like their idea of
college is like some you know, liberal arts school in
the mountains, you know what I mean. Like my idea
college was like probably what your idea was of college
growing up in Dayton, right, Like it's these big, hulking,
big ten campuses.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So I always wanted to go to one.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And you know, a really good friend of mine, a
high school teammate of mine, went to Ohio Stays a
year older than me, and he was a priority walk.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
On in the football team there.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
His name was Eddie Brown, still lives in Columbus. His
daughter played soccer at Oklahoma and Creighton, and so Eddie
brought me out my senior year in high school's freshman
year at Ohio State. I honestly, like it was very
easy to you've been to Columbus, very easy to fall
in love with that place. I had high boards and
(17:46):
low grades in high school, and let's just say, Ohio
State wasn't as hard.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
To get into then as it is now.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
And I thought, because I was a legacy, I'd get
into Michigan.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
And it didn't work out for me.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So that's the that's the short version of the story.
But it all worked out for the best.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I'd say, did you cry when Michigan said no?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
No, I sort of.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I mean I knew I did that to myself, you know,
like I knew, I knew. I thought I'd get in,
but like I thought, like maybe, because again, like you're
your a legacy like that, like I maybe they would
let me in. But I also knew, like I screwed
around enough in high school to mess that up, which
(18:28):
you know, which is fine. Like again, like it worked
out for the best. I'm I'm more than happy where
I went to school.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
That's uh. That's one of those things where maybe when
you expect it the least things work out for the best.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Great to talk to you again, Thank you, Albert, all right,
Thanks Dan, Albert Breer Monday Morning Quarterback.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington from The Odd
Couple on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 8 (19:00):
In an addition to hearing us live weeknights from seven
to ten pm Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we are
excited to announce brand new YouTube channel.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
For the show.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
That's right, you can now watch The Odd Couple live
on YouTube every day.
Speaker 8 (19:15):
All you gotta do search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube
again YouTube, Just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out
on YouTube and subscribed.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Well look who's back. Dodger manager Dave Roberts another World
Series title. Didn't need to make a proclamation in spring training,
didn't have to do any of that stuff. Just an
easy seven games and there you are winning again. I
guess can you compare the back to back, the different
(19:45):
feelings that you had.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
Well, I'm glad your ho hum about it. It was
very difficult. Winning a championship is very difficult. Winning two
is even tougher. No, I mean, there's nothing like games Evan,
and a lot of things had happened.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Guys stepped up, and I'm just prout of the guys
it was.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
There's a lot of pressure points in that series, in
the postseason and certainly in the World Series. But it
certainly wasn't easy. And yeah, we've done something that hadn't
been done in twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
But you look at pressure and we we could see pressure.
It was tangible when you're watching Game seven. But the
pressure too, you're supposed to win, expected to win by
you know, the media, of the you know, fans. It
feels like that the difference in being an underdog in
winning like when you won with the Red Sox as
a player, to winning when you're the favorite. The different
(20:43):
kind of pressures are feeling that.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
You have with that, Yeah, you know, I guess, you know,
I don't know. I guess The thing about sports is, yeah,
everyone's got opinions.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
But you know, the David and Goliath narrative.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
Fans, media put things together that just aren't true, and
to be quite honest, people that have never been in
the ring. And the Blue Jays were a very good team.
They won the al least they won more baseball games
than we did. But we're Goliath, and so it was
a great series and we were trying to win the series.
(21:20):
They were trying to win a World Series. I don't
think he was pressure. I think that what happens is
as athletes, as teams, you have expectations and goals for yourself,
and you know, you don't want more for yourself than
I think than fans do. You want to win, You
expect to win. So I don't think that our pressure
(21:41):
or pressure from the fans or media had any bearing
on the game. We were trying to win for each
other in the city of Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Give me the move that maybe you were going to
second guess yourself in Game seven and you didn't.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
Probably, Well, the easiest one is hitting for got Ross.
He's a defensive guy. I inserted him in Game six
to add some infusion and energy into our club.
Speaker 6 (22:09):
And yeah, that's that's probably the one.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
But you know, looking at the bench, it's tough to
pinch hit, and anyone can say and you were probably
second guessing me saying you should hit for him, and
because the numbers say that, there's other guys that can
hit home runs in this but it's hard to come
off the bench. And I trusted my players, and you know,
he made me look good and he deserved that moment.
And in the postseason, what I have learned Dan is
(22:34):
you know, it's not about the numbers. You gotta trust
your players. And my job is to know the players.
That's my job. Ultimately, that's my job. It's not to
know statistics. It's about to know the heartbeat of the player.
And I do believe that, you know, to win eleven
or this year thirteen games in October, you've got to
trust your players, to know your players, and that's what
we did.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
But so you're saying gut feeling still has a place
in the game. It feels like we're so attached to analytics.
How much of what you did in Game seven was
gut as opposed to analytics.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
It's it's all got I think that if you look
back at twenty twenty four in the postseason, it's the
eye test.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
It's gut.
Speaker 7 (23:12):
But people, if you look at twenty twenty, it's eye test,
it's got People can't get off the analytics for some reason.
So these are people that are just stuck in their
ways and you're never going to change them. But if
people that really want to, that really watched the game
and know the game, then they can see that analytics
had nothing. It's about, you know, coaches trusting their players
(23:35):
and players stepping up in big moments.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
When you saw the collision in left center with pyos In,
Key k what I.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Was a prayer's r answer, and I was unbelievable. You know,
they both went after it. Kik was trying to make
his Willie Mays play. Pahes was just inserted and just
made a next level, big moment play. And it's funny
because Key Kate laid down there for dead and Pats
(24:04):
asked me if he was okay, and he says, forget that.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
Do you have the ball?
Speaker 7 (24:09):
And he said, yes, I do have the ball and
he goes he got up and ran into the dugout.
So it was but again, and it's like Miguel Ross
coming out of Game seven, because he just expended all energy.
It's like that's just what fans lived for. And that's
what our players gave both teams.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
The play at the plate. How close that was? Are
you ready then to ask for replay?
Speaker 6 (24:33):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (24:34):
That was like I was asking for replay right from
the get go, or if they would have called it,
say for sure? And I was with Will Smith last
night and he goes, I honestly did not realize that
I took my foot off the plate to then have
the wherewithal to put it down. And that's the thing,
is that, but even the play for me to take it,
to lose momentum and then to regain to make a
(24:55):
good throw for Will to field it, get his.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
Foot back down. I mean, god, it's a heartache series.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Talking to Dave Roberts, Dodger manager, Yamamoto reminded me of Pedro.
Remind me of Pedro Martinez. I are they similar build,
similar size and.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
Very similar build, very similar size, you know obviously Pedro,
you know, sort of a similar mix. If you say
the split is Pedro's changeup and just same mindset. You
know Pedro on game days, I've never seen. He's an
assassin and Yamamoto is an assassin. What he did is
(25:40):
stuff like Pedro asked, Sandy Kofasque asked, obviously what.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Mad bummed in? I did?
Speaker 7 (25:46):
And I don't know if it was twenty twelve or
twenty fourteen, one of those Giants years, but yeah, I mean,
this is the guy that, yeah, not physical, but his mind,
Dan is just pretty spectacular.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
But if you would have said, hey, beginning of the series,
a Japanese born player is gonna win MVP.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Joe Hey all day?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, all day. But what did you learn about him
in this World Series or in the playoffs that maybe
you didn't know?
Speaker 7 (26:14):
Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, not the World Series, the playoffs.
So I actually I knew that he's a killer. I
knew it this guy, and he showed that, you know,
this year, having just a tremendous years being a stop perforce,
pitching huge and big games, going complete game. Doing what
he did in Milwaukee was incredible, complete games. One run,
(26:38):
I think the first Yeah, gives up a solo homer,
a leadoff homer, then goes nine innings shut after that,
then the next game, complete game, and then in game three,
eighteen innings, I think he was like thirteenth inning, He's like,
I'm ready to go down there. I'm not going to
let a position player pitch in the game in a
(27:00):
World Series game, and this is a one day off
and so that showed me a lot.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Freddy walks it off.
Speaker 7 (27:06):
And then so yesterday or Game seven obviously was no surprise,
but to go three innings was incredible.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
But o Tani and your you say him throughout the season,
ramping him up. Uh, was he coming in in game
seven or we started getting Yeah?
Speaker 7 (27:22):
No, no, because he started Game seven okay. And then
so once he was done, he gave us three innings
and then I was like, you know what, I think
he just wasn't a sharp Get him off the pitching,
lock in on the hitting, and then we had some
marms behind him.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I thought the way you ramped him up the entire
season was interesting. You know, when you have that kind
of talent, but you know he's got two innings or
he's got three, Like you, you got to be careful
that you don't get greedy in a situation. I guess
like that you do, and.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
It was it's hard not to be greedy.
Speaker 7 (27:53):
But we went one inning, we remain steadfast one and
he won in two innings, two innings, three innings, and
then you know at the end that was the first
time because all year he had seven, eight, nine, ten
days of rest. So game seven was the first time
he ever went on three days rest. So that's why
you know, this guy's coming off to Tommy John's he is,
(28:15):
he's our team MVP, and so he's two players and
one so we couldn't get greed with him. So three days.
It wasn't terribly sharp. He gave us three nings. That
was that was plenty.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Clayton Kershaw is joining us tomorrow.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Nice, What should.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I bring up to him?
Speaker 7 (28:34):
Oh my gosh, you know, I think was in game
seven he was it was either going to be the
next hitter or certainly if they tied it up, if
Kirk tied it up right there, Kirk Clayton was going
to take.
Speaker 6 (28:50):
The next sitting.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
How nervous were you when he was on the mound.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
That I was nervous in that game? Game three?
Speaker 7 (28:58):
Game three, I bring in a basis loaded situation, and
it goes back to again, it goes back to trust
your players. Clayton and I have been through so much
in my ten years with him, eighteen years obviously in
his career and We've had some loads, certainly together and
we had some highs. But again, I'm gonna if it's
(29:19):
gonna go down, I'm gonna I'm gonna bet on playing
Kershaw and I've proved that time.
Speaker 6 (29:23):
And time again.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
How was the celebration?
Speaker 6 (29:26):
Oh, so last year was insane.
Speaker 7 (29:29):
We didn't get it in twenty twenty, so it sort
of kind of butted up together in twenty four. But
last yesterday's parade or two days Agos parade was it
was the best. The bet they did, they one up themselves,
more people, a longer parade route. Players were just over Jordan.
(29:50):
It was fantastic.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Damn you getting used to this?
Speaker 7 (29:55):
I would say it's it's I enjoy it. I wouldn't
say get used to it. We already talked about the
players already talked about a three p I talked about
a three peat. So I'm not making any guarantees, but
I already cleared it with pat Riley on the three
pet term.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
So we're excited. I just think with us, you got
to find some carrot. You know.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
It's like we started out in South Korean twenty four,
finished in the Bronx, started out in Tokyo. Finish in Canada.
And so we've had the longest season, the shortest offseason
of anyone, travel the most mile. So you've got to
have some carrot to keep our guys focused and motivated.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
So the three pet is it for us?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah? I mean you shouldn't. You want to win, you
expect to win.
Speaker 6 (30:40):
That's right, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
Congrats, Thank you, Dan, I appreciate you man.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
All right, enjoy your offseason.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
All right, take care and tell Clayton I said hello tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
All righty, that's Dave Roberts did it again.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Sam Smith Phil Jackson co authors of Masters of the Game,
a conversational history of the NBA, and it's seventy five
legendary players. Sam of course covers the Bulls, He's done
so since nineteen eighty seven. He gave us the Jordan rules,
and of course Phil Jackson eleven time NBA champ and
(31:28):
they join us. Now, Phil, you know you have all
of these different players, all these different chapters where you
and Sam are just talking back and forth about them,
giving your thoughts in a conversational tone. Give me the
player that you had the most fun talking about in
this book.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
Well, I think we could have gone on forever about
Dennis Rodman, but I would say some of the guys
that I didn't coach, So the guys that you know
have a check and players that you know competed against
and had admiration for.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Sam give me the player in the book that more
people should know about.
Speaker 9 (32:12):
You know, I think one who gets overlooked so much
is Rick Barry. You know, people know Rick Barry. I
don't think they appreciate how great Rick Rick Barry, you know,
in my view, could have been. You know, Steph Curry
with his shooting ability. He was such an all around
versatile player who for various reasons, was so universally disliked.
(32:35):
But you know, one of the interesting things, Phil went
on a lot of State Department tours back then, and
he was on one with Rick, and I remember one
Phil was telling we were talking about one with Pete
Maravich where and I know the history books don't reflect
this actually, but Pete basically opened China before Richard Nixon.
Because I think on some of the State Department tours.
(32:56):
You know, Pete stribbling and passing and playing, you know,
so excited some of the communities in China and phil
what we were talking about. And that was another I
know they know Pete Maravich, but you know, they don't
know in this era. And to me, that was part
That was really what the book's about, that these guys
(33:18):
sort of lost to history as much gets But I
believe and I think when you see Jokic now and
you see Don Kitch, these guys could have played in
any era, including this era, and I don't think that
is appreciated. And that was that was a big part
of my interest in the book.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It feels like the NBA started when Magic and Larry
showed up. So you had players in the sixties, certainly
in the seventies. They missed out on the TV era,
and I think Kareem the better years of his career
he missed out, or at least we missed out. But
what do you remember about Kareem.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
Yeah, this is a guy who had, you know, a
body that could survive playing in this game for twenty
some years. Not too many guys can even shoot the
step hook as a jump hook or two foot takeoff,
and Kareem was able to perfect this shot. He was
(34:18):
able to play with a certain amount of grace. His
defense was always criticized and his rebounding perhaps as a shortcoming,
but his scoring was never He was a great scorer,
and he was the guy that held himself together quite
well off the court as well as on.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
We're talking to Sam Smith and Phil Jackson. The book
is Masters of the Game, a conversational history of the
NBA the seventy five legendary players. So was there somebody
that you wanted to include that you didn't.
Speaker 9 (34:54):
We used the NBA's top seventy five and you know,
no offense, but I thought there were too many, But
it was seventy five years. They had to go in
seventy five, you know. Sort of the controversial if it
would be named, was Dwight Howard. But he's a Hall
of Famer. You know, people look at it as a
(35:15):
negative when you say, well, he wasn't deserving it being
the Hall of Famer. You know, a top seventy five,
and I thought some of the seventy five, you know,
Damian Lillard, no offense. I didn't think he was the
top seventy five player. I think there was some recent,
you know, recency bias in the list, but they had
to get the seventy five. I think it was overall
(35:37):
a pretty good list. You know, I ended up being
on the panel. I know Phil doesn't like to select
ranked people, and we didn't rank people in this and
I think that's another thing that's different. You know, it's
not the debate who's number one, who's number two. You know,
it's a look at the history of it. So I
think it's a fairly good list overall.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Phil.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Over the years, it feels like your relationship with Scottie
Pippen has been complicated. Can you expound upon that.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Well, I was assistant coach when Scotty came into the game,
and I played with him and against him one on
one and tried to help his game out a little bit.
And I was big in promoting Scotty because you know,
we had Scotty coming off the bench and I had
(36:27):
to sub in as a coach for Doug Collins when
he got thrown out of a game, and that was
like the immediate thing I did. I put Scotty in
the game and up the pressure defense because this is
one of the best defensive players ever to play the game.
So I had a lot of admiration for him and
had a lot of contact with him. He was the
(36:49):
on court guy that I alerted all the time when
defensive strategies would come, double teams, traps, et cetera. Whistle,
Hey Scottie, it's time whatever. So yeah, it was shocking
to hear the comments that he made, but he had
(37:10):
a situation that was coming off the bench, not being
able to play the last few seconds of the basketball
game that was critical and it made a big change
in his life. Michael called the next day from baseball
and said, I don't know Scotty'll ever be able to
live this sound. And I think it's been a hard
(37:32):
thing to live down, you know, refusing to go on
the ballgame because things didn't go your way.
Speaker 9 (37:37):
Michael and I wanted to add something briefly with that.
I thought it was really poignant.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
You know.
Speaker 9 (37:44):
Phil's kept a good relationship with Michael. I've seen him occasionally.
We don't chat as much as he and Phil Mike,
and when some of those things came out, we talked
about this in the book that Philip asked Michael about
that and Michael really expressed regret. I thought it was
really poignant that Michael told fell that he feels terrible
(38:06):
about losing the relationship with Scottie, you know, a twenty
twenty five year relationship that was closer than a lot
of people thought. And so yeah, it struck me as
really poignant that Michael felt a loss about this filled.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
The Dennis Rodman relationship certainly different, but it almost felt
like you had these big personalities and you gave everybody
almost their own longitude and latitude. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 5 (38:35):
We had a team that was without a power forward
when Michael came back to play after his baseball stint,
and you know, we put on a list of power
forwards that could be or would be capable of filling
that role, and we came up with Dennis Robin as
(38:59):
the only one that really fit the bill. We traded
Will Purdue for him and it wasn't a big money thing.
And after meeting Dennis and knowing who he was, I
addressed the team as we're all adults, there's got to
be exception for some players. This guy's not going to
(39:20):
come to the games on time. He doesn't shoot, he
doesn't go out and shoot around. So he's asked me
if he can come a half hour late, so he'll
be fine. We'll find him, like the NBA wants to
find players for not being there an hour and a
half before the game, and at the end of the year,
(39:41):
he'll pay the fine of whatever it was, two five
hundred dollars or whatever. But these are exceptions that we're
going to have to live with with this guy, and
I think his talent overways. What's going to happen as
we go together towards winning a championship?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Phil, give me the player you wish you had coached?
Speaker 5 (40:02):
Wow, I think a lot of There are a lot
of players that you look at and say, what a
terrific player this guy is. He's overall, but I think
Latners is like one of the guys I thought never
really got to play the way he was capable of
playing in the NBA. I would have liked to coach
(40:22):
guy like that that has his talent, had some leadership ability,
maybe never blossomed as an.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
NBA player, Sam, who do you think changed the game more?
Michael Jordan or Steph Curry.
Speaker 9 (40:38):
Michael Jordan, partially because I'm still with the bulls, so
I have to say that that's in my contract. But
the greatest thing, you know, I sometimes say, you know,
this guy shot better than Michael, passed better back, and
there's every skill they.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
Did better Michael.
Speaker 9 (40:55):
How could be the greatest player?
Speaker 3 (40:57):
You know?
Speaker 9 (40:57):
Part of it is not just you know, Michael changed world.
You know, long shorts men could be bald. You know,
bald was good. Bald was never good before earrings, the shoes,
the fashion. Michael's influence about the world way transcended basketball.
And you know that's part of the equation. So I
don't think anybody could ever rival Michael with the combination
(41:20):
of his play.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Good luck with the book. It was an easy read.
It was a fun read, and I learned a few
things about some of those players that I didn't get
a chance to see when I was growing up. Phil,
I think I saw you at the Cincinnati Gardens when
the Knicks came to town against the Royals. But thanks
again Sam, great to see it, Phil, Thank you as well,
and good luck with the book.
Speaker 6 (41:44):
Thanks Ton, Thank to see it thirty years again.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Thank you, Sam.
Hosts And Creators
Todd "Fritzy" Fritz
Dan Patrick
Patrick "Seton" O'Connor
Paul Pabst
Marvin Prince
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