December 4, 2025 • 47 mins
DP and the Danettes discuss the trade speculation surrounding Giannis Antetokounmpo. Hall of Fame QB Kurt Warner weighs in on the tough vs. smart Jaxson Dart debate and trusts the Cowboys going forward over the Lions. NBA insider Brian Windhorst breaks down the complicated situation surrounding a possible Giannis trade to the Knicks, and tries to explain what happened between the Clippers and Chris Paul.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Kurt Warner, NFL MVP, and Super Bowl Champ. A little
bit later on Brian Winnhorst on a couple of NBA items,
including Yannis, and Jannis got injured in the first quarter
of the game last night and then didn't come back,
but they're hoping he wants to come back to Milwaukee
for the long haul. But Wendy brought this up at
(00:26):
the start of the year that Jannis had expressed an
interest in being traded to the nick So Whendy, you
will join us. There's been a lot of talk about,
you know, where Yannis is going to go. I think
he turns thirty one tomorrow or the next day. But
you know, when you look at a franchise and you
think you got it set up, you think you did
(00:47):
it right, and you know, I can give you credit
for boldness, but the league is too deep and too
competitive to sit still and just say, oh, we got
draft picks and we're going to grow. Aggression cuts both ways.
When it works, you get to hang banners. When it doesn't,
it's a disaster Milwaukee with the Dame Lillard big swing
(01:08):
and miss and that was exposure that was supposed to
extend a championship window. Instead, the Bucks under five hundred.
Dame Lillard's gone, and now Jannis reportedly asking out how
about the Clippers. They spent years flipping picks prospects, and
you know they wanted to have a veteran super team.
(01:30):
They're six and sixteen, no first round pick on the horizon,
and a harsh reminder what happens when that bill finally
comes due. You also have Dallas, the Mavericks. They empty
future draft picks, they build around Luca, then they trade Luca.
They bring in an aging, injury prone big man. They're
eight and fifteen. You take a swing, you take a miss,
(01:53):
and sometimes it can hurt a franchise for a long
long time.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, Paulin twenty twenty one, the Milwaukee Bucks in the
NBA finals, Mike Budenholzer. Two years later they have a
first round exit and they fire him. And it's one
of those situations where your expectations get heightened and you
get rid of the person who caused those expectations to happen,
and you have.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
A window of opportunity here, and they thought bringing in
a guy who can help in the pick and roll
with Jannis with Dame Lillard, but it didn't work out
the way it was scripted. And now Dame is done
and Joannis could be as well. But this is what
you don't want to do. If you're Milwaukee, you don't go, now,
who could we trade him to? Okay? Once you go
(02:36):
to the Knicks, how about we bring in Karl Anthony Towns.
That's not an answer. That would not solve the problem here.
If you're Milwaukee, then can you get X number first
round picks for Joannis? I mean, Oklahoma City doesn't have
enough roster spots for all of the draft picks they're
(02:56):
going to have. What if you said to and Okasee
can say, well, we won a title without him. Right now,
we're twenty one and one, we don't need him. But
if you think about it, if you're OKAYC you got
three picks in the first fifteen this year, right now,
what if you said, we'll give you these three first
(03:18):
round picks and maybe a player two and you bring
in Yanis at age thirty one? To me, that would
be intriguing from Milwaukee's perspective. I don't know what Okac
would think about this, but you bring Janis in with
that group, and you don't want to mess with chemistry
as much as we like to go, oh well, man,
(03:39):
imagine that you put an All star on that team
and you've got great chemistry obviously. But other teams that
are mentioned San Antonio Spurs pairing him with Victor Wenden Yama, Okay,
the Rockets names just another team that's come up. So
there's going to be a lot of teams that would
(04:00):
be interested. The Miami Heat, they seem to come up,
you know all the time when it comes to trades,
potential trades. But we'll talk to Wendy about that that
what can you get in return? Because you got to
think of it two ways. It's we always think of
the player going to the team, and you go, yes,
but what about the team who's giving up that star player.
It's like Luca, you know, we celebrated man, he's going
(04:23):
to the Lakers. Good for the Lakers, And I go, okay,
what's Dallas getting? And that's the bad part of the deal.
If you would have said that they got a couple
of players you could build on and that we're younger,
then you go, okay, I kind of get it. But
Anthony Davis and then you have a GM and goes, well,
you know, you win with defense. Yeah, if the guy's
(04:47):
healthy enough to play defense, then maybe you do. But
you did get to an NBA Finals with a guy
who was out of shape, and now he goes to
the Lakers. It's what do you get in return? That's
what I would want to know. You know, if I'm
the Knicks and I can get Jannis, hell ya, you
gotta win a title. I mean, it's been a long
long time since you won a title. So now you
(05:08):
get a chance to put Brunson with Jannis. Okay, now,
I know you're gonna give up you know, players, But
what I mean you get an opportunity to get a
guy like this, And yes, it might be a window
of three years or four years to win that title.
But the Celtics are down this year, like now is
the year to take advantage of that. With no Jason Tatum,
(05:31):
I mean, who are you going against Detroit, Miami? Indiana
doesn't have Halliburton, So take advantage of the window of opportunity,
certainly in the East, to get to the NBA Finals. Yes, Marvin,
all right.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
My issue is when the Knicks get eliminated if they
get Yannis because they don't have enough depth. It's because
you traded Karl Anthony Towns, Josh Hart, Landry Shammitt, Deuce McBride.
That's how you win an NBA championship. That's how the Bucks,
that's how the Nuggets were an NBA championship. That's how
a thunder win NBA championship with depth. Johannis and Brunson
(06:05):
aren't gonna win an NBA title just with them and
just a bunch of guys.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So that's my only you think they're Do you think
they're winning a title with Karl Anthony Towns and Jalen
Brunson and Landry Shammant.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I don't think they won a title eat away, Josh
ar Okay, Yeah, Paul.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
It's one of those things though.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
When I think about Giannis, I think it was two
years ago he signed a three year, one hundred and
eighty six million dollar extension, and it is right after
they went out and got Lillard to convince him to stay.
It'll almost be sad if he leaves the Bucks.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
They had it.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
They had an international superstar for a long time and
and they're not going to keep him the whole way.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, but he gave them a title, right.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I guess it's more about what they could have done
for the second half of his career and a series
of missteps, which I don't think people criticize a Lillard
acquisition at the time.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
You look back with different view of it. Well, you know,
we looked at Milwaukee and we said their best, second
best player would be Chris Middleton or Drew Holliday. At
the time, with Dame Lillard, you were getting, you know,
a sniper. You were getting an elite score to take
the pressure off Jannis.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Yes, Like I don't think the Dame move was a
bad idea. It just didn't work. There's no reason that
on paper it wouldn't have been perfect. It just for
some reason, it just didn't click. But I don't think
it was a bad idea necessarily.
Speaker 6 (07:28):
No.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I thought it was a great swing. But you know what,
I'm not the GM, I'm not part of the fan base,
and I can only see it from my perspective. And
I thought, okay, because I thought, you know, there's these
teams in the East were loading up and you had
to do something as well. Chris Middleton's a good player,
Drew Holliday, really good player. Dame gave you something a
(07:50):
little bit more, it just didn't work out. And now
Jannis is looking around, going, we're not winning anytime soon.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
Here.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I may not get another opportunity to play and win.
And you can tell when he plays, he plays hard,
he plays with passion, and I think it's hard to
accept losing, because at some point in your career, when
you play in your on losing teams, you have to
kind of accept that you may lose tonight. And that's
hard to do because most of these guys come from
(08:19):
programs where they don't lose.
Speaker 6 (08:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I remember players from Duke would go to the NBA.
They'd lose more games in two weeks. You know, Christian Latner,
he'd lose more games in two weeks than he did
in you know, his entire senior year. But I think
that's the part that you have to factor in. Jannis
wants to be mentioned with Luca, with Joker, he wants
(08:42):
to be mentioned with SGA. He wants to be and
he's not. You know, it's almost out of sight, out
of mind. And he's having another great season. He puts
up incredible numbers, but we've gotten to that point where
we go, Okay, you know you average thirty and you
average twelve. Oh yeah, ever you know six, yes, Morvin.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
And now Giannis is playing for something different than being
the best player in the game. He's playing for a
top ten all time spot now with his numbers. And
you can't be an Al Theimer at least a top
ten all timer without more than one ring. So he's
playing for more than just the best.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah, Paul, I went back and looked it up quickly
because you mentioned late in there. In four years at Duke,
he lost twenty six games as a rookie with the Timberwolves.
In ninety two he lost sixty three games.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Steat of the day, Oh thank you day bonus the
day stat.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Of the Day? What Stat of the Day?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Top Bob Brought to you by Panini America, the official
trading cords to the Dan Patrick Show. NBA title odds
As of this morning, it's the Thunder overwhelmingly followed by
the Nuggets, Rockets, Lakers, Calves, Nicks, and then the Pistons.
You're looking at the West Thunder, Nuggets, Rockets, Lakers, four
(10:03):
best odds to win the title. Then you have the Cabs, Knicks,
and Pistons. If you're Detroit and you added Jannis, I
mean that's a good team. I don't know who you
have to give up. But Detroit has become a really
good team, and we saw them be a tough out
in the playoffs last year. The Knicks, well, you want
to get clicks. Talk about the Knicks and getting Janis
(10:26):
as well. I'm sure the Lakers are going to be
interested in Jannis. I saw that yesterday and I'm like, okay,
are you giving up Luca?
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Like?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Who you get Austin Reeves? And I don't know how
many draft picks. I don't think they have too many
draft picks here to give up. But I did see
that there was also and I don't know if it's
true or not, but was Golden State interested in Well,
I'm sure they were in Yannis last year because I
had heard that from somebody affiliated with Golden State and
(10:58):
they even said, hey, we're trying to kick tires on Yannis.
But once again, Wendy had the story and he said
the Knicks that was the place that he thought Jannis
was gonna want to go. If he was able to
be traded, all right, that'll be coming up poll question today?
Did I already ask that Seaton?
Speaker 7 (11:16):
You have not?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
You have not?
Speaker 5 (11:18):
We have many, many options, you know where you can
find them after the break, after the break.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Okay, all right, all right, let me see, still working
on this cough here, so bear with me if I
have some silence here a little bit. But you know
it's todd said, you're unbelievable. What does just dramatic pause,
dramatic coughing? Held it?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
No, nothing gets attention like silence.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Oh, I know when the best part of the show
is silence. It says a lot, right, Toddler, okay eight
seven seven eight seven seven three DP show email address.
I got this medicine ball from Starbucks. It's just a
bunch of tea and some honey and something something. I
(12:12):
don't know if it helps, but it certainly tastes good. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
See you ever when you're sick on golden milk. No,
it's great, it's like the best in milk. No, it's
it's like a turmeric and I forget what else is
in there, but you like heat it up and drink it.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, it helps a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
It's turmeric latte with turmeric and other warming spices.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It's an Indian beverage. It's really really good. It's really good. Yes, Todd,
I think you gotta get one of those holiday cake pops.
Speaker 8 (12:44):
You know they have like Frosty and Raindyer and stuff
like that.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
There's cute cake pops and Starbucks. Get that on the side.
I'll make you feel better.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
How do you think you're doing?
Speaker 6 (12:51):
So I'm not doing that great, but there's a lot
of time left.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
There's a lot of time left. Well that could be
good and bad. I'm gonna jump in during those pauses
and better kill it. Also, when you since there's a pause,
I'm ready to call worth anything. You'll come to the rescue. Well, great,
we're all in great hands. Okay, we're gonna take a
break because after the break, we're gonna find out our
(13:16):
poll question Today uh National Signing Day, we'll talk about
who did and who didn't. And Penn State is still
looking for a head coach? Are they swinging for the fences?
Because man, I'm exhausted my sources with this, like what
is going on? And both of them yesterday said we
don't know, and I don't know if they know. But
(13:38):
if you're gonna promote you can't fire James Franklin and
then say we're gonna promote from within, and you know,
without doing that initially to say no, we have our guy.
We've we've already had him. They've had some people who
have decided to take other jobs.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
He asked Paulic refreshingly, the Louisville head coach Jeff Brohm,
who was a hot prospect.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
He's staying at Louisville.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, that's refreshing.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, we've seen some coaches who have stayed Vandy, Missouri, Louisville,
so not everybody goes. And I think I think the
Mississippi Police Department is pushing back on Lane Kiffin saying
somebody tried to run him off the road when he
was going to the airport to fly to Baton Rouge.
(14:25):
And then I love that Eli Manning put out a
tweet and he just said oops, as if he was
the guy who was trying to run Lane Kiffin off
the road. Uh, Lane, just go to LSU.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
Just go.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Time Before we applaud all the coaches that stayed, do
we know the whole story as to what they will
operate and what schools were involved as opposed to.
Speaker 9 (14:47):
I think I should just stay here because I want
to live forever here at this time.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Stile, I'm gonna guess Vandy, Missouri, Louisville. Yes, they had
opportunities to go elsewhere, those coaches, I'm gonna guess they did.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
Hey, it's Rob Parker and Calvin Washington from The Odd
Couple on Fox Sports Radio. And in addition to hearing
us live weeknights from seven to ten pm Eastern on
Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new
YouTube channel for the show.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That's right, you can now watch The Odd Couple live
on YouTube every day.
Speaker 7 (15:30):
All you gotta do search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube
again YouTube, just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out
on YouTube and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Kurt Warner joining us the Hall of Famer. He'll be
on the call in the radio booth for Westwood One
Monday Night, the Eagles and the Chargers at so Far
They kick off at eight fifteen Eastern. You can also
see them on NFL Game Day Morning before I Talk
NFL let me ask you about the whole situation with
your son. Ejay played at a couple of colleges. I
(16:01):
believe he'said right now at Fresno State. But you know,
you got nil, you got transfer portal, you know, all
the recruitment. What do you make of the college football
situation right now?
Speaker 9 (16:13):
You know, I think when you look at it, there's
obviously definitely issues there, whether you're talking about the calendar,
which everybody's been talking about this whole Giffern thing, when
you're talking about nil.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
You know.
Speaker 9 (16:25):
But I've also seen the transfer portal work for actually
two of my boys, and I had one son that
was at Nebraska, went to Kansas State for some particular
issues and had a great finish to his career there.
With EJ, it was some opportunities as he played really
well at Temple to see if he could parlay that
into a bigger opportunity that he didn't get out of
(16:48):
high school. And so I understand the NIL. I think
guys should definitely get paid. I think they should get
what they're worth. I love the opportunity, but I think
there has to be reasons on.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Why you're making the jump. You know, the.
Speaker 9 (17:03):
Idea of just jumping one place to another solely for money,
I think is always going to be a problem. I
think the fact that some teams have way more money
than other teams, even within conferences and those sorts of things,
creates a whole another issue there. So obviously I think
there's some benefits to it, some negatives to it, and
(17:24):
I just think it has to be it has to
be monitored and set up in a different way to
make it successful.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
I think for everybody you.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Got football coming up tonight, do you have a better
handle on the Lions or the Cowboys?
Speaker 9 (17:41):
I think I still have questions on both, but I
think Dallas is maybe showing us a little bit more
of what they can be or the consistency now that
they've got some guys healthy on defense they made the trades.
So still not sure there are a great defense, But
with that offense, I think, you know, we can like Ei,
their defense has done enough to show us they can
(18:03):
consistently play at a certain level. Yeah, I'm still I
have a lot of questions with the Lions coming into
the year, I think we all thought we knew what
they could be and now.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
It's been a roller coaster ride.
Speaker 9 (18:15):
Both offensively and defensively with them some of the injuries
that they have. Yeah, I would say I'm probably have
a better feel for what I'm going to get from
the Dallas Cowboys than what I'm going to get for
the Lions.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out the Lions situation here.
I know they've got some injuries here, and they do
run the football and Gibbs is great, but they just
seem like they've hit their ceiling. And I thought that they,
you know, that was a team that, all right, it
didn't work out last year because the injuries now were
really going to show you and it just they really
(18:50):
disappointed here, and they might be the third best team
in their own division right now.
Speaker 9 (18:56):
Yeah, I think you're right, you know, but it's hard
also to sustain the level of success that they've had
over the last couple of years, and specifically what they
had last year.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
I mean, fifteen wins is crazy, and you.
Speaker 9 (19:09):
Know, I would have to go back and look, but
I would guess that they were in a lot of
close games and somehow find found a way to win
those close games last year. And it's hard to sustain
that as well, because we know in the NFL, so
many games are decided by one score or less and
it comes down to one play here or there, or one.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
Mistake here or there.
Speaker 9 (19:30):
And you know, I think we're seeing it, like with
the Eagles, pretty much the same cast of characters, but
they're not playing as well this year.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
I think the same thing holds true for the Lions.
Speaker 9 (19:40):
A lot of the same characters, especially on offense, and
not playing as well this year. And trying to put
your finger on exactly what that is. Maybe it's just
the ability to sustain a high level of play year
after year after year in the NFL.
Speaker 6 (19:56):
It's just not that easy. Owner.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
He'll be in the radio booth. It'll be the Eagles
visiting the Chargers. That'll be next Monday night. Are you
planning on Justin Herbert playing in that game?
Speaker 9 (20:09):
I'm planning on him playing, you know, being that it's
his left hand, you know, knowing the toughness of Justin
Herbert and the things that he's played through before, Understanding
what you know this stretch run means for this Chargers
team in terms of.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
The playoffs and things.
Speaker 9 (20:26):
I'm expecting that, you know, and I expect that from
most players. If we always ask the question, can it
get any worse? Is there something that can happen if
I'm playing that makes this worse, and that you know,
like if I play Monday, is there a chance three
weeks from now I'm more injured and can't play when
(20:46):
it really matters.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
If the answer to that question is no.
Speaker 9 (20:51):
Most players are going to do everything that they can
to get out there.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
You know, I've talked about it.
Speaker 9 (20:57):
You know, Jaden Daniel suffered, you know, that tear in
his you know, in his elbow. I had the same
injury back in O seven, and you know, I had
just gotten back into the starting role and it was
my first game back. I played the next week and
I played the rest of the season with that injury
simply because it was, Hey, it can't get any worse.
(21:18):
You know, you're just gonna sit and do rehab, So
let's just brace it up and go. And you know,
I had to hand the ball off everything with my
right hand because of that issue, where I could see
Justin Herbert possibly having to do some of that stuff.
I was taken out down in the tight red zone
because we had to go under center and some type.
So I could see some adjustments being made to help
(21:39):
protect that hand.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
But as long as that hand's.
Speaker 9 (21:42):
Not going to get any worse, I believe Justin Herbert
will be out there playing.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I asked this question yesterday to Andrew Whitworth, the former lineman.
Do you want your quarterback to be smart or tough?
If you have to choose between those two, smart or tough?
Speaker 9 (22:00):
I mean, I guess the question is when you say tough,
what what are you talking about. I know yesterday when
you were talking, you were talking more about Jackson Dart
running down the field and taking big hits. In that case,
I want my quarterback to be smart more than tough.
I think there's a toughness factor to kind of what
we're talking about with Justin Herbert, or a toughness to
(22:23):
standing in the pocket and you know, and delivering a throw,
you know, to the last second when you're getting hit.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
There's a level of toughness.
Speaker 9 (22:32):
That I go, Okay, I want my quarterback to be
tough in that way. But I probably would say overall,
you know, less people are gonna worry about us being tough,
and more people are gonna worry about us being smart.
I want a smart quarterback that makes good decisions. That's
out there and available to his team and gives them
(22:52):
chances to win every time out. Although I do understand
the idea of toughness, I just don't need it. When
you know, when you can run out of bounds or
you can gain two more yards, I don't need you
to take that big hit. I don't need you, you know,
to run through a defender instead of slide. I don't
look at quarterbacks, you know when I watch film and go,
oh geez, you know, I wish I had that guy
(23:15):
that was running.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
Through a linebacker. No, I'm like, slide, slide, be smart
and get back up and help your team. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That was my point is you're going to get a yard.
What does it matter. You're coming off concussion protocol, you
got two wins on the season. Get out of bounds.
You guys can build on something. You have something here
in the embryonic stages. I don't need to show you know,
play all seventeen games. If you survive seventeen regular season games,
(23:46):
you're tough. You don't need to tell me show me
you're tough. That will tell me.
Speaker 9 (23:50):
Just there the availability, and I think, you know, we
could go back to another Giants quarterback in Eli Manning,
and you know Eli, there were times that he was
going to just go down, like, hey, if the play
was over, I'm just gonna fall down in the pocket.
And he became known as a tough quarterback why because
he was never out Like he played so many games
(24:13):
in a row for the Giants and it was like,
that's what we want, is the guy that's going to
be out there and play.
Speaker 6 (24:20):
And so he understood when the play was over.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
And there's no doubt that people get excited and your
sideline gets excited if your quarterback runs over a linebacker,
you know, down the field. I understand that aspect of things,
but I think you're one hundred percent ride is that
more importantly, your team wants you, if you're the leader
and if you're the guy to be out there ever
snap and they're not going to worry about you sliding
or falling down every once in a while as long
(24:45):
as you do the things that your team needs you
to do on a weekly base.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Help me understand from your perspective as a Hall of
Famer Drake May's development and contrasts that with Caleb Williams development.
Because the Bears are playing well I don't think they're
playing well because because of Caleb Williams. Where the Patriots
are playing well, and I believe that is in large
part to Drake May.
Speaker 9 (25:07):
Yeah, well, I mean, I feel like Drake played well
last year, but I feel he's in a system that
really fits what he does as a quarterback. I think
Josh McDaniels does a great job of designing plays. It's
what I call full field plays, where it's drop back,
read the coverage. When you know what the coverage is,
I've got a concept that can attack that coverage and
(25:28):
you just have to get your eyes there, read it,
and it speeds up the game for Drake May because
he's really good at doing those things and so the
system really fits who he is. And when you talk
about development, that to me is the first step in development.
Do you have a play designer, a play caller that
(25:48):
sees the game like the quarterback sees the game like
You can have a lot of really good plays in
an offense, but if it doesn't connect to how the
quarterback plays the game, it makes the game harder and
they're not comfortable with what they're doing every snap. I
believe they've got a great comfort level together to go
along with the way Drake is throwing the football. I
(26:10):
mean it's like effortless, it's easy, his ability to throw
the ball down the field. But I think Josh has
really sped up those reads for him so he can
play fast, know what he wants to do with the football,
and that just makes him more confident. On the other side,
with Caleb, I think Caleb is a guy that you know,
hasn't had to process information as much as maybe a
(26:33):
Drake may or some other quarterbacks. He's been a guy
that been able to rely on the athleticism. You know,
we watched him in college. You can make all the throws,
but he would buy a lot of time and he
would create because he was more comfortable with that. And
so what's happened is he's got to the NFL is
We're trying and everybody's trying. Ben's trying to get him
(26:53):
to play more conventional quarterback, go through his reads, his progressions,
stay in the pocket, and it's a battle for him.
It's a battle for him right now to change the
way that he's played the game. He's gotten better at
it from last year to this year. Last year wasn't
processing very fast, holding onto the football, you know, almost
too much, and taking too many sacks. This year he's
(27:16):
gotten better with those things, but still not there yet
where I believe it's a comfort level for him to go, oh,
I got this one, two, three, and work through those
things and feel comfortable in that place. So that's where
when you talk about the process of the two of them.
Drake more comfortable in that setting through college and where
(27:36):
he's at now. Caleb not as comfortable, but working through
it and fighting through it. And so he's gotten much
better from last year, but still has a ways to
go in that arena. And I think as he gets
more comfortable, he'll also get more accurate. That's the other
part of it is Drake has been extremely accurate throwing
the football.
Speaker 6 (27:56):
Caleb is not. Caleb's made a lot.
Speaker 9 (27:57):
Of big, explosive plays, but he's also a lot of layups,
and I think a lot of that comes with knowing
exactly what you want to do with the football, being
comfortable with that, and then being able that a read.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
This may sound strange, but it just came to my mind.
Can you have too much talent as a quarterback?
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Well?
Speaker 9 (28:18):
I think a lot of talent I say this, Dan,
and I didn't have this, so I'm just speculating like
everybody else. But yeah, I do believe the more talent
and the more skills and gifts you have, the more
it's going to kind of open up the possibilities of
what you could do on every play. You know, that
(28:39):
the throws that you could make, the ability to be
creative instead of staying in the pockets, you know, those
sorts of things I think open up more possibilities for
a guy like me. There was one possibility you're going
to stand in the pocket, You're going to read the
coverage and you're gonna have to throw it to the
right guy, and so it simplified things for me from
that standpoint. I've all always wondered how an athletic quarterback
(29:02):
decides when it's time to run, like when is it
time to take off as opposed to staying in your progressions,
you know, and even forcing that issue. You know, I've
talked a lot about it that I believe, you know,
athletic quarterbacks, we've got more and more of them now.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
They kind of grow up not being forced to learn.
Speaker 9 (29:20):
How to read the field or read defenses and progress
through their reads. Their you know, their coach, drop back,
see if your first guy's open. If he's not, go
create a play for us. And so that becomes their
norm more and more and more. And these guys are
such great athletes they get further and further and further
in their careers without having to learn the opposite. So,
(29:41):
like with Caleb Williams, now we're getting into the NFL
level against the best players in the world and we're saying, hey,
now you have to change the way you've always played,
and you've got to learn to process better, and you've
got to learn to stay in the pocket, and I
mean that's got to be a really hard thing to do.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
So to your point, the more skills you have, the more.
Speaker 9 (30:02):
You and I don't even want want to say get
away with, the more things you can do on a
given play through the majority of your career. And then
when we try to find tune that and say we
can't do this as much anymore, and you can't do
this as much anymore, it's always going to be I
think a struggle for those guys for at least a period,
and then it leads the question can they ever get
to maybe the point we want them to get to
(30:24):
in terms of, hey, you got to be able to
process and create at the same type of level. I
think that's really hard and we don't see a lot
of guys that can do that.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
You know.
Speaker 9 (30:34):
Lamar Jackson is one of the guys that I think
does that really well. Josh Allen has shown at times
he can do that really well. But I think that's
a tough dynamic to fight for these guys that are
just incredible athletes for the majority.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
Of their lives.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, and I always bring this up because it's not
necessarily Michael Vick or Kyler Murray. Steve Young was like this.
Steve Young said, Hey, I had one read, not there,
I'm running and then all of a sudden, Bill Walsh
is like, what are you doing? Stay in the pocket,
go through your progressions. And he became a Hall of
Fame quarterback because of that. He had the ability to
(31:10):
be able to extend plays. But Bill Walsh would say,
will you stop doing that, go through your progressions. You've
got great receivers, and he became one of the most
accurate quarterbacks in NFL history.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Yeah, and it makes the game easy.
Speaker 9 (31:24):
You want the offense to work for you, Like I
still think even with some of these great athletes, and
maybe Lamar is the exception, but it's hard to win
games in the NFL week in and week out, trying
to be athletic. You're trying to run around it and
make plays. You've got to allow the game where the
offense and it.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
We lost you, We lost your connection there. We can
see you, we can't hear you. That's weird.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
How often does that happen? It is the audio and
not the video often. Yeah, Kurt, we'll catch up with you,
but thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
We bring in Brian Winhorns to the Mothership, ESPN senior
NBA writer. How did we get to this point? Ryan?
With Jannis in the bucks?
Speaker 8 (32:22):
Not one hundred percent sure where we are because one
of the things that I've been talking to the league
executive types about in the last twenty four hours is
do we think that this time the honest will actually
go all the way and formally say it's time to
trade me because he's rattled the saber before and you know,
(32:43):
one of the more fascinating stories that came out of
this whole summer, and it didn't come out in the summer.
It came out in October and Schamstrania, my colleague at ESPN,
reported it. But in August Jannis talked to the Bucks.
And different people can use different verbs here, and I'm
not trying to like step on anybody, but he showed
(33:06):
an interest in wanting to be on the New York Knicks,
and to the point where the Knicks and the Bucks
had trade talks. And I know what Doc River said yesterday, said,
Giannist didn't ask to be traded. Okay, he may not
have said those words. I promise you the Bucks it
wasn't their idea, okay. And I know that it caught
(33:28):
the Knicks by surprise, Dan. And you know how I know,
because like two weeks before, they signed Michale Bridges to
a contract extension, a really good contract extension, nice one.
And it's not that they wouldn't have signed him or
that they absolutely were going to trade him in that deal,
but once you signed him to that, you can't trade
him for six months. So if you were thought that
(33:50):
you were about to potentially enter a very important negotiation.
You wouldn't take one of those guys off the table.
So I think it caught the Knicks off guard too,
And so what I think happened was it was honest
his idea. Now you can bring people on here and
have them testify or whatever. It's fine. The talks took place, okay.
And the important thing is Jannis watched what the Bucks
(34:13):
did over the summer, which was do this crazy move.
It was a two hundred million dollar move. They cut Dame,
making one hundred million dollars in dead money, and then
they signed Miles Turner for one hundred million. So they
took one hundred million dollar problem, which was a player
in his thirties recovered from Achilles, and they made it
(34:35):
a two hundred dollar investment for a Miles Turner, who
is a quality player, just helped the team to get
to the finals, excellent, a high quality role player, but
not a star player. He saw those moves and then
he said, I have some interest in becoming a Nick. Okay.
So that happened, and it didn't come out until October.
(34:55):
And at that point, Jannis, they had signed his two brothers,
you know, and Janness was playing for the Bucks and everything,
but like that was a real indication of what y
where Yannis's head was at. Here's the other thing. Yannis's
family moved to Greece. If you know anything about Yannis,
(35:15):
the family is extraordinarily important to him. It's one of
the reasons why the Bucks have signed his two brothers,
because they know how important it is to have his
family with him. That he sent his fam He might
have had ten reasons to send his family to Greece,
but again, these are actions that you're looking at going
you know, So what the league is wondering is knowing
(35:37):
what happened in the summer, knowing about the other stuff,
knowing that the team is not doing well, although they
had their best win of the year last night they
beat the Pistons without Yanis. Will Janis actually go forward
and say, Okay, I wanted to because I don't think
the Bucks are going to get there Dan, because the
Bucks are so mortgaged and so deeply invested in keeping him,
(36:01):
and I actually don't blame them. And so that's really
what the question is is will Yannis take the next
step besides the saber rattling that he's.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Done before why the Knicks?
Speaker 8 (36:12):
Good question, you know, he he really, you know, in
all of the all of the discussions from Jannis and
from John Horst, their general manager and doc, no one
denied those talks took place. The Knicks certainly didn't deny it.
And I thought, I know that they happened. And you know,
I will say that if you were in a vacuum
(36:35):
choosing where to go, you would want to go to
the Eastern Conference. You know, I think you know, you
know you we want to stay East. And so if
you looked at the Eastern Conference and you said, well,
where would I want to be as a player, where
do I think I can you know, make a big impact?
Where could we win right away? Like New York rises
to the top. You could make some cases for some
(36:56):
other teams, you know, Miami for example, you know, maybe Atlanta,
maybe Boston. All that that type of trade would be
a lot more complicated. But like you know, if you
go through that process, I could see how you know,
Toronto would be as it would be an interesting team.
Now that's actually kind of an interesting team because you know,
you know, national players seem to like Toronto. But I
(37:17):
think you know, in August, I think New York made
some sense, and it may not have made some sense
from what the Knicks were in position to trade at
the time. And I certainly don't think the Bucks were
motivated to do it, like they probably wanted everything the
Knicks could possibly offer before they would even get mildly interested.
But that's the other question is if Jannis does so
(37:38):
that There's really three questions that have been involved on
my phone for the last twenty four hours. One, will
Jannis actually go to the point where he says I
want to be traded because he hasn't gotten to that
point yet or before. Two, if he does get traded,
will the list be longer than the Knicks than it
was just a one team thing over the summer? And Three,
(38:01):
if Yannis has a let's let's say there's three teams,
let's say there's six teams, whatever, do the Bucks have
to do business with just his list? Because he does
have one year left on his contract plus a player option,
so next year you'd be faced with having Giannis in
a walk year. So typically in that situation, you would
(38:24):
if you were trading for a guy, you'd want to
know he is staying, especially if you're given a lot
of stuff for him. But it's funny Dan, As I've
talked to people in the league, people don't necessarily think
that would necessarily be true with Yannis. So I'm not sure.
But those are the three questions and the topics that
are going around the league right now.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I'm guessing Brunson would be off limits with the Knicks.
That'd be the only guy that'd be off limits.
Speaker 8 (38:50):
I would advise them. I haven't. I don't have insight
on I don't have insight on that, but I would do.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
So.
Speaker 8 (38:54):
The challenge with the Knicks is they really don't have
meaningful draft assets to give. Some of these other teams
we could mention have their own draft picks, and other
teams draft picks that they can offer. The Knicks don't
have draft picks, so you would have to make it
a player based trade. And here's the thing about the
Bucks that's important to understand the Bucks, and this is
(39:16):
this sort of backs up why they've double triple quaudripled down.
They don't control I think their next three or four drafts.
They've either traded the pick away or they've traded the
swap away. Certainly this year and next year, I know
for sure, I think even twenty eight two.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And so when you're in.
Speaker 8 (39:31):
That position, you really can't enter into a trade thinking, well,
we're gonna rebuild because you don't control your pick. And
there's a few teams in the NBA right now who
are in bad shape but don't control their pick, and
they're in hell. And so Milwaukee would probably have if
they you know, Milwaukee's probably doesn't want this to happen
at all, but if they get to the point they
(39:52):
have to trade them, they're probably going to look to
make a player based trade or the draft asks that
that they're gonna get are going to be third part teams.
In other words, if you do a team with if
you do a deal with the team that you're trading
Giannis to you and you're getting their picks for the next
couple of years, that's not that exciting because that team
stayed going to be good. If that team has a
third team's picks, yeah, you'd be interested in that so
(40:14):
that it doesn't rely on your performance or that team
with Giannis's performance. But now you're threading a needle. So
that's another reason why New York would make some sense.
They have some players that the Bucks could get that
would help them retrofit their team.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Right now, I'm talking to Brian win Horst, ESPN, senior
NBA writer, help me understand the Chris Paul situation of
why it had to happen on the road in Atlanta.
Speaker 8 (40:40):
Well, that seems crazy, you know, And one of the
things that Lawrence Frank So, first off, Lawrence Frank had
this press conference yesterday the general manager of the President.
I think it's the president is its title, And first off,
he said, puts all the blame on me, which maybe
Lawrence wanted to do it, but I promise you it
was not only him who wanted to do it, but
(41:04):
doing it the way they did it. He said that
they made the decision on Sunday. Dan, Okay, let's just
let's just take that for the truth. Why was he
in Miami on Monday. They're starting a long road trip
and you know, Lawrence explained that the reason this happened
(41:25):
in the middle of the night was because their flight
was delayed by five hours, which it was. They didn't
land in Atlanta Airport until nine thirty. You know how
long it is to get from Atlanta Airport to downtown.
It doesn't take five minutes. They met at eleven o'clock.
In the meeting went several hours. So why do you
do it at eleven o'clock? You know, I don't you know?
(41:46):
So like the actual functionality of the way they handled
it is wretched the decision. You've been around sports for
a long time. When you have a player who is
very vocal, who all of a sudden has a small role,
it doesn't work. Chris Paul's whole career, he's been very vocal.
(42:08):
He's been vocal with the officials, He's been vocal with
his coach, the opposing coach. He's been vocal with the
opposing star player, with his star play, with his role players.
Imagine what he says off the court. You can just
see what he says on the court. And when you're
the star player and the point guard and you're playing
all eighty two games and your team is competing for
conference titles or whatever, that's one thing. When you're doing
(42:31):
that and the team is sinking and you're of a
much smaller role, it doesn't work. I knew this twenty
years ago when I started the NBA. This is a
bit of a classic case situation. And you could say well,
then why the Clippers bring him in knowing that he
would have a small role and that this was possible.
That's fair And I would just say that of the
Clippers miscalculations this season, it's on the list, But there's
(42:53):
a long list of Clippers' miscalculations so far.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
When do you feel like we'll get a true sense
of le Bron's role with the Lakers? If is he
a third option now? And you know, I guess the
future of how long does he want to play, feel
like he can play and being a maybe a third
option for the Lakers and what role that plays.
Speaker 8 (43:17):
It's an interesting set of circumstances. It's happened because I
thought Lebron was awesome last year. He was second team
All NBA. I thought he looked great. You know, the
Lakers had a disappointing end of the season. There was
a bad matchup for them with Minnesota. But I thought
that they really achieved in the regular season. They got
the three seed. I mean, I know, the difference between
(43:38):
the three and the six was really tight, but they
got it. And you know, people were saying to me,
why do you think this is it for Lebron? And
I'm like, no, like look at him. He's still one
of the top ten to fifteen players in the league.
And then a couple of things happened. First off, he
had two injuries dan So he sprained his knee in
(43:58):
the last playoff against the Wolves. In fact, had they
extended that series, I don't know if he could have played.
He missed training, he was out for weeks. He had
He's never missed a playoff game in all you know,
twenty years in the playoffs, He's never missed a playoff game.
I'm not sure you've been been able to play in
the next game. So he had this knee injury. Then
(44:19):
he hits the sciatica. So he has the most injured
offseason he's ever had, which maybe isn't a surprise at
age forty, but it's still completely new. Also, they get Luca,
so Lebron was already having a great season. Lebron played
well when Luca after Luca got there, but the Luca
thing happens. Then he has the injuries. Okay, so these
(44:42):
are two things that we've never seen. We've never seen
him not be the a one A guy on his team.
We've never seen him have off season injuries. Before then
his team without him plays really really well. Absolutely never happened.
Maybe his team has been able to keep their knows
above water when he's been out, whether it's been for
(45:02):
you know, a week or a month, they've never achieved.
You've never looked at a team that has missed Lebron
for multiple games and gone, man, they're doing great. And
Austin Reeves is having a career year. So you've got
this series of circumstances that he's never experienced before, not
to mention not getting able to start a season, not
having to have a training camp, So we are in
(45:23):
completely unknown territory for him. It would be unknown territory
if any one of those things was true. Now the
whole menu is true. And by the way, he rejoins
the team as the number one score in the history
of the league. Where the two guys on his team
are in the top ten in scoring, Reeves and Luca
are like one in nine. I don't have even checked
(45:44):
it today. Maybe Reeves dropped a little bit, but when
he came back, I think they were one in eight.
So you're asking, you're this is a completely different situation
he's ever done, and the team's winning. You know you're
not coming in and boy, the team's struggling, and now
you got so I think he is absent, absolutely in
a little bit of the deep end of the pool
that he's never been in before. I mean, how long
(46:05):
has it been since Lebron's been in a situation that
he hasn't not only seen but mastered. So this is
awkward and he's showing his age. You know the other
night in that game was really a game where I
really looked thought Lebron looked like an older player for
the first time where he wasn't getting left. I mean
he had no rebounds, no steals, no blocks. That's never
(46:27):
happened in twenty three years, thousands of games. So you're
asking a really relevant question. I don't think anybody knows.
I think he's going through this day to day trying
to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Would you be more surprised if he played another year
or he retired at the end of this year?
Speaker 8 (46:46):
I am. I thought, you know, even as recently as
last spring, he has years left. I was not entertaining
that this was going to be it regardless of the contract,
which as that's also something he's never experienced before. But
it's not really relevant. I don't think that's affecting his
day to day.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Now.
Speaker 8 (47:06):
I'm just I'm just in the middle of I don't know,
and I know it's an unsatisfactory answer, and I think
Lebron has pretty much said the same thing. He said,
I don't know. I think Rich Paul, his agent, has
said I don't know. I don't know. But that's that's
a departure from me because I was in the camp
of this guy could Tom Bradiot like I mean, and
he still could Tom Bradiot, but if you watched him
(47:28):
play last year, there's no way you said that's a
guy about to retire.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Wendy, thank you. I know you're busy. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 8 (47:36):
Have a good day.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
That's Brian Windhorst.
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Kurt Warner, NFL MVP, and Super Bowl Champ. A little
bit later on Brian Winnhorst on a couple of NBA items,
including Yannis, and Jannis got injured in the first quarter
of the game last night and then didn't come back,
but they're hoping he wants to come back to Milwaukee
for the long haul. But Wendy brought this up at
(00:26):
the start of the year that Jannis had expressed an
interest in being traded to the nick So Whendy, you
will join us. There's been a lot of talk about,
you know, where Yannis is going to go. I think
he turns thirty one tomorrow or the next day. But
you know, when you look at a franchise and you
think you got it set up, you think you did
(00:47):
it right, and you know, I can give you credit
for boldness, but the league is too deep and too
competitive to sit still and just say, oh, we got
draft picks and we're going to grow. Aggression cuts both ways.
When it works, you get to hang banners. When it doesn't,
it's a disaster Milwaukee with the Dame Lillard big swing
(01:08):
and miss and that was exposure that was supposed to
extend a championship window. Instead, the Bucks under five hundred.
Dame Lillard's gone, and now Jannis reportedly asking out how
about the Clippers. They spent years flipping picks prospects, and
you know they wanted to have a veteran super team.
(01:30):
They're six and sixteen, no first round pick on the horizon,
and a harsh reminder what happens when that bill finally
comes due. You also have Dallas, the Mavericks. They empty
future draft picks, they build around Luca, then they trade Luca.
They bring in an aging, injury prone big man. They're
eight and fifteen. You take a swing, you take a miss,
(01:53):
and sometimes it can hurt a franchise for a long
long time.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, Paulin twenty twenty one, the Milwaukee Bucks in the
NBA finals, Mike Budenholzer. Two years later they have a
first round exit and they fire him. And it's one
of those situations where your expectations get heightened and you
get rid of the person who caused those expectations to happen,
and you have.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
A window of opportunity here, and they thought bringing in
a guy who can help in the pick and roll
with Jannis with Dame Lillard, but it didn't work out
the way it was scripted. And now Dame is done
and Joannis could be as well. But this is what
you don't want to do. If you're Milwaukee, you don't go, now,
who could we trade him to? Okay? Once you go
(02:36):
to the Knicks, how about we bring in Karl Anthony Towns.
That's not an answer. That would not solve the problem here.
If you're Milwaukee, then can you get X number first
round picks for Joannis? I mean, Oklahoma City doesn't have
enough roster spots for all of the draft picks they're
(02:56):
going to have. What if you said to and Okasee
can say, well, we won a title without him. Right now,
we're twenty one and one, we don't need him. But
if you think about it, if you're OKAYC you got
three picks in the first fifteen this year, right now,
what if you said, we'll give you these three first
(03:18):
round picks and maybe a player two and you bring
in Yanis at age thirty one? To me, that would
be intriguing from Milwaukee's perspective. I don't know what Okac
would think about this, but you bring Janis in with
that group, and you don't want to mess with chemistry
as much as we like to go, oh well, man,
(03:39):
imagine that you put an All star on that team
and you've got great chemistry obviously. But other teams that
are mentioned San Antonio Spurs pairing him with Victor Wenden Yama, Okay,
the Rockets names just another team that's come up. So
there's going to be a lot of teams that would
(04:00):
be interested. The Miami Heat, they seem to come up,
you know all the time when it comes to trades,
potential trades. But we'll talk to Wendy about that that
what can you get in return? Because you got to
think of it two ways. It's we always think of
the player going to the team, and you go, yes,
but what about the team who's giving up that star player.
It's like Luca, you know, we celebrated man, he's going
(04:23):
to the Lakers. Good for the Lakers, And I go, okay,
what's Dallas getting? And that's the bad part of the deal.
If you would have said that they got a couple
of players you could build on and that we're younger,
then you go, okay, I kind of get it. But
Anthony Davis and then you have a GM and goes, well,
you know, you win with defense. Yeah, if the guy's
(04:47):
healthy enough to play defense, then maybe you do. But
you did get to an NBA Finals with a guy
who was out of shape, and now he goes to
the Lakers. It's what do you get in return? That's
what I would want to know. You know, if I'm
the Knicks and I can get Jannis, hell ya, you
gotta win a title. I mean, it's been a long
long time since you won a title. So now you
(05:08):
get a chance to put Brunson with Jannis. Okay, now,
I know you're gonna give up you know, players, But
what I mean you get an opportunity to get a
guy like this, And yes, it might be a window
of three years or four years to win that title.
But the Celtics are down this year, like now is
the year to take advantage of that. With no Jason Tatum,
(05:31):
I mean, who are you going against Detroit, Miami? Indiana
doesn't have Halliburton, So take advantage of the window of opportunity,
certainly in the East, to get to the NBA Finals. Yes, Marvin,
all right.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
My issue is when the Knicks get eliminated if they
get Yannis because they don't have enough depth. It's because
you traded Karl Anthony Towns, Josh Hart, Landry Shammitt, Deuce McBride.
That's how you win an NBA championship. That's how the Bucks,
that's how the Nuggets were an NBA championship. That's how
a thunder win NBA championship with depth. Johannis and Brunson
(06:05):
aren't gonna win an NBA title just with them and
just a bunch of guys.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So that's my only you think they're Do you think
they're winning a title with Karl Anthony Towns and Jalen
Brunson and Landry Shammant.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I don't think they won a title eat away, Josh
ar Okay, Yeah, Paul.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
It's one of those things though.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
When I think about Giannis, I think it was two
years ago he signed a three year, one hundred and
eighty six million dollar extension, and it is right after
they went out and got Lillard to convince him to stay.
It'll almost be sad if he leaves the Bucks.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
They had it.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
They had an international superstar for a long time and
and they're not going to keep him the whole way.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, but he gave them a title, right.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I guess it's more about what they could have done
for the second half of his career and a series
of missteps, which I don't think people criticize a Lillard
acquisition at the time.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
You look back with different view of it. Well, you know,
we looked at Milwaukee and we said their best, second
best player would be Chris Middleton or Drew Holliday. At
the time, with Dame Lillard, you were getting, you know,
a sniper. You were getting an elite score to take
the pressure off Jannis.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Yes, Like I don't think the Dame move was a
bad idea. It just didn't work. There's no reason that
on paper it wouldn't have been perfect. It just for
some reason, it just didn't click. But I don't think
it was a bad idea necessarily.
Speaker 6 (07:28):
No.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I thought it was a great swing. But you know what,
I'm not the GM, I'm not part of the fan base,
and I can only see it from my perspective. And
I thought, okay, because I thought, you know, there's these
teams in the East were loading up and you had
to do something as well. Chris Middleton's a good player,
Drew Holliday, really good player. Dame gave you something a
(07:50):
little bit more, it just didn't work out. And now
Jannis is looking around, going, we're not winning anytime soon.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
Here.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I may not get another opportunity to play and win.
And you can tell when he plays, he plays hard,
he plays with passion, and I think it's hard to
accept losing, because at some point in your career, when
you play in your on losing teams, you have to
kind of accept that you may lose tonight. And that's
hard to do because most of these guys come from
(08:19):
programs where they don't lose.
Speaker 6 (08:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I remember players from Duke would go to the NBA.
They'd lose more games in two weeks. You know, Christian Latner,
he'd lose more games in two weeks than he did
in you know, his entire senior year. But I think
that's the part that you have to factor in. Jannis
wants to be mentioned with Luca, with Joker, he wants
(08:42):
to be mentioned with SGA. He wants to be and
he's not. You know, it's almost out of sight, out
of mind. And he's having another great season. He puts
up incredible numbers, but we've gotten to that point where
we go, Okay, you know you average thirty and you
average twelve. Oh yeah, ever you know six, yes, Morvin.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
And now Giannis is playing for something different than being
the best player in the game. He's playing for a
top ten all time spot now with his numbers. And
you can't be an Al Theimer at least a top
ten all timer without more than one ring. So he's
playing for more than just the best.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah, Paul, I went back and looked it up quickly
because you mentioned late in there. In four years at Duke,
he lost twenty six games as a rookie with the Timberwolves.
In ninety two he lost sixty three games.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Steat of the day, Oh thank you day bonus the
day stat.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Of the Day? What Stat of the Day?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Top Bob Brought to you by Panini America, the official
trading cords to the Dan Patrick Show. NBA title odds
As of this morning, it's the Thunder overwhelmingly followed by
the Nuggets, Rockets, Lakers, Calves, Nicks, and then the Pistons.
You're looking at the West Thunder, Nuggets, Rockets, Lakers, four
(10:03):
best odds to win the title. Then you have the Cabs, Knicks,
and Pistons. If you're Detroit and you added Jannis, I
mean that's a good team. I don't know who you
have to give up. But Detroit has become a really
good team, and we saw them be a tough out
in the playoffs last year. The Knicks, well, you want
to get clicks. Talk about the Knicks and getting Janis
(10:26):
as well. I'm sure the Lakers are going to be
interested in Jannis. I saw that yesterday and I'm like, okay,
are you giving up Luca?
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Like?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Who you get Austin Reeves? And I don't know how
many draft picks. I don't think they have too many
draft picks here to give up. But I did see
that there was also and I don't know if it's
true or not, but was Golden State interested in Well,
I'm sure they were in Yannis last year because I
had heard that from somebody affiliated with Golden State and
(10:58):
they even said, hey, we're trying to kick tires on Yannis.
But once again, Wendy had the story and he said
the Knicks that was the place that he thought Jannis
was gonna want to go. If he was able to
be traded, all right, that'll be coming up poll question today?
Did I already ask that Seaton?
Speaker 7 (11:16):
You have not?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
You have not?
Speaker 5 (11:18):
We have many, many options, you know where you can
find them after the break, after the break.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Okay, all right, all right, let me see, still working
on this cough here, so bear with me if I
have some silence here a little bit. But you know
it's todd said, you're unbelievable. What does just dramatic pause,
dramatic coughing? Held it?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
No, nothing gets attention like silence.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Oh, I know when the best part of the show
is silence. It says a lot, right, Toddler, okay eight
seven seven eight seven seven three DP show email address.
I got this medicine ball from Starbucks. It's just a
bunch of tea and some honey and something something. I
(12:12):
don't know if it helps, but it certainly tastes good. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
See you ever when you're sick on golden milk. No,
it's great, it's like the best in milk. No, it's
it's like a turmeric and I forget what else is
in there, but you like heat it up and drink it.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, it helps a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
It's turmeric latte with turmeric and other warming spices.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It's an Indian beverage. It's really really good. It's really good. Yes, Todd,
I think you gotta get one of those holiday cake pops.
Speaker 8 (12:44):
You know they have like Frosty and Raindyer and stuff
like that.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
There's cute cake pops and Starbucks. Get that on the side.
I'll make you feel better.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
How do you think you're doing?
Speaker 6 (12:51):
So I'm not doing that great, but there's a lot
of time left.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
There's a lot of time left. Well that could be
good and bad. I'm gonna jump in during those pauses
and better kill it. Also, when you since there's a pause,
I'm ready to call worth anything. You'll come to the rescue. Well, great,
we're all in great hands. Okay, we're gonna take a
break because after the break, we're gonna find out our
(13:16):
poll question Today uh National Signing Day, we'll talk about
who did and who didn't. And Penn State is still
looking for a head coach? Are they swinging for the fences?
Because man, I'm exhausted my sources with this, like what
is going on? And both of them yesterday said we
don't know, and I don't know if they know. But
(13:38):
if you're gonna promote you can't fire James Franklin and
then say we're gonna promote from within, and you know,
without doing that initially to say no, we have our guy.
We've we've already had him. They've had some people who
have decided to take other jobs.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
He asked Paulic refreshingly, the Louisville head coach Jeff Brohm,
who was a hot prospect.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
He's staying at Louisville.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, that's refreshing.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, we've seen some coaches who have stayed Vandy, Missouri, Louisville,
so not everybody goes. And I think I think the
Mississippi Police Department is pushing back on Lane Kiffin saying
somebody tried to run him off the road when he
was going to the airport to fly to Baton Rouge.
(14:25):
And then I love that Eli Manning put out a
tweet and he just said oops, as if he was
the guy who was trying to run Lane Kiffin off
the road. Uh, Lane, just go to LSU.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
Just go.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Time Before we applaud all the coaches that stayed, do
we know the whole story as to what they will
operate and what schools were involved as opposed to.
Speaker 9 (14:47):
I think I should just stay here because I want
to live forever here at this time.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Stile, I'm gonna guess Vandy, Missouri, Louisville. Yes, they had
opportunities to go elsewhere, those coaches, I'm gonna guess they did.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
Hey, it's Rob Parker and Calvin Washington from The Odd
Couple on Fox Sports Radio. And in addition to hearing
us live weeknights from seven to ten pm Eastern on
Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new
YouTube channel for the show.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That's right, you can now watch The Odd Couple live
on YouTube every day.
Speaker 7 (15:30):
All you gotta do search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube
again YouTube, just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out
on YouTube and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Kurt Warner joining us the Hall of Famer. He'll be
on the call in the radio booth for Westwood One
Monday Night, the Eagles and the Chargers at so Far
They kick off at eight fifteen Eastern. You can also
see them on NFL Game Day Morning before I Talk
NFL let me ask you about the whole situation with
your son. Ejay played at a couple of colleges. I
(16:01):
believe he'said right now at Fresno State. But you know,
you got nil, you got transfer portal, you know, all
the recruitment. What do you make of the college football
situation right now?
Speaker 9 (16:13):
You know, I think when you look at it, there's
obviously definitely issues there, whether you're talking about the calendar,
which everybody's been talking about this whole Giffern thing, when
you're talking about nil.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
You know.
Speaker 9 (16:25):
But I've also seen the transfer portal work for actually
two of my boys, and I had one son that
was at Nebraska, went to Kansas State for some particular
issues and had a great finish to his career there.
With EJ, it was some opportunities as he played really
well at Temple to see if he could parlay that
into a bigger opportunity that he didn't get out of
(16:48):
high school. And so I understand the NIL. I think
guys should definitely get paid. I think they should get
what they're worth. I love the opportunity, but I think
there has to be reasons on.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Why you're making the jump. You know, the.
Speaker 9 (17:03):
Idea of just jumping one place to another solely for money,
I think is always going to be a problem. I
think the fact that some teams have way more money
than other teams, even within conferences and those sorts of things,
creates a whole another issue there. So obviously I think
there's some benefits to it, some negatives to it, and
(17:24):
I just think it has to be it has to
be monitored and set up in a different way to
make it successful.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
I think for everybody you.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Got football coming up tonight, do you have a better
handle on the Lions or the Cowboys?
Speaker 9 (17:41):
I think I still have questions on both, but I
think Dallas is maybe showing us a little bit more
of what they can be or the consistency now that
they've got some guys healthy on defense they made the trades.
So still not sure there are a great defense, But
with that offense, I think, you know, we can like Ei,
their defense has done enough to show us they can
(18:03):
consistently play at a certain level. Yeah, I'm still I
have a lot of questions with the Lions coming into
the year, I think we all thought we knew what
they could be and now.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
It's been a roller coaster ride.
Speaker 9 (18:15):
Both offensively and defensively with them some of the injuries
that they have. Yeah, I would say I'm probably have
a better feel for what I'm going to get from
the Dallas Cowboys than what I'm going to get for
the Lions.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out the Lions situation here.
I know they've got some injuries here, and they do
run the football and Gibbs is great, but they just
seem like they've hit their ceiling. And I thought that they,
you know, that was a team that, all right, it
didn't work out last year because the injuries now were
really going to show you and it just they really
(18:50):
disappointed here, and they might be the third best team
in their own division right now.
Speaker 9 (18:56):
Yeah, I think you're right, you know, but it's hard
also to sustain the level of success that they've had
over the last couple of years, and specifically what they
had last year.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
I mean, fifteen wins is crazy, and you.
Speaker 9 (19:09):
Know, I would have to go back and look, but
I would guess that they were in a lot of
close games and somehow find found a way to win
those close games last year. And it's hard to sustain
that as well, because we know in the NFL, so
many games are decided by one score or less and
it comes down to one play here or there, or one.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
Mistake here or there.
Speaker 9 (19:30):
And you know, I think we're seeing it, like with
the Eagles, pretty much the same cast of characters, but
they're not playing as well this year.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
I think the same thing holds true for the Lions.
Speaker 9 (19:40):
A lot of the same characters, especially on offense, and
not playing as well this year. And trying to put
your finger on exactly what that is. Maybe it's just
the ability to sustain a high level of play year
after year after year in the NFL.
Speaker 6 (19:56):
It's just not that easy. Owner.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
He'll be in the radio booth. It'll be the Eagles
visiting the Chargers. That'll be next Monday night. Are you
planning on Justin Herbert playing in that game?
Speaker 9 (20:09):
I'm planning on him playing, you know, being that it's
his left hand, you know, knowing the toughness of Justin
Herbert and the things that he's played through before, Understanding
what you know this stretch run means for this Chargers
team in terms of.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
The playoffs and things.
Speaker 9 (20:26):
I'm expecting that, you know, and I expect that from
most players. If we always ask the question, can it
get any worse? Is there something that can happen if
I'm playing that makes this worse, and that you know,
like if I play Monday, is there a chance three
weeks from now I'm more injured and can't play when
(20:46):
it really matters.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
If the answer to that question is no.
Speaker 9 (20:51):
Most players are going to do everything that they can
to get out there.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
You know, I've talked about it.
Speaker 9 (20:57):
You know, Jaden Daniel suffered, you know, that tear in
his you know, in his elbow. I had the same
injury back in O seven, and you know, I had
just gotten back into the starting role and it was
my first game back. I played the next week and
I played the rest of the season with that injury
simply because it was, Hey, it can't get any worse.
(21:18):
You know, you're just gonna sit and do rehab, So
let's just brace it up and go. And you know,
I had to hand the ball off everything with my
right hand because of that issue, where I could see
Justin Herbert possibly having to do some of that stuff.
I was taken out down in the tight red zone
because we had to go under center and some type.
So I could see some adjustments being made to help
(21:39):
protect that hand.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
But as long as that hand's.
Speaker 9 (21:42):
Not going to get any worse, I believe Justin Herbert
will be out there playing.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I asked this question yesterday to Andrew Whitworth, the former lineman.
Do you want your quarterback to be smart or tough?
If you have to choose between those two, smart or tough?
Speaker 9 (22:00):
I mean, I guess the question is when you say tough,
what what are you talking about. I know yesterday when
you were talking, you were talking more about Jackson Dart
running down the field and taking big hits. In that case,
I want my quarterback to be smart more than tough.
I think there's a toughness factor to kind of what
we're talking about with Justin Herbert, or a toughness to
(22:23):
standing in the pocket and you know, and delivering a throw,
you know, to the last second when you're getting hit.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
There's a level of toughness.
Speaker 9 (22:32):
That I go, Okay, I want my quarterback to be
tough in that way. But I probably would say overall,
you know, less people are gonna worry about us being tough,
and more people are gonna worry about us being smart.
I want a smart quarterback that makes good decisions. That's
out there and available to his team and gives them
(22:52):
chances to win every time out. Although I do understand
the idea of toughness, I just don't need it. When
you know, when you can run out of bounds or
you can gain two more yards, I don't need you
to take that big hit. I don't need you, you know,
to run through a defender instead of slide. I don't
look at quarterbacks, you know when I watch film and go,
oh geez, you know, I wish I had that guy
(23:15):
that was running.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
Through a linebacker. No, I'm like, slide, slide, be smart
and get back up and help your team. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That was my point is you're going to get a yard.
What does it matter. You're coming off concussion protocol, you
got two wins on the season. Get out of bounds.
You guys can build on something. You have something here
in the embryonic stages. I don't need to show you know,
play all seventeen games. If you survive seventeen regular season games,
(23:46):
you're tough. You don't need to tell me show me
you're tough. That will tell me.
Speaker 9 (23:50):
Just there the availability, and I think, you know, we
could go back to another Giants quarterback in Eli Manning,
and you know Eli, there were times that he was
going to just go down, like, hey, if the play
was over, I'm just gonna fall down in the pocket.
And he became known as a tough quarterback why because
he was never out Like he played so many games
(24:13):
in a row for the Giants and it was like,
that's what we want, is the guy that's going to
be out there and play.
Speaker 6 (24:20):
And so he understood when the play was over.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
And there's no doubt that people get excited and your
sideline gets excited if your quarterback runs over a linebacker,
you know, down the field. I understand that aspect of things,
but I think you're one hundred percent ride is that
more importantly, your team wants you, if you're the leader
and if you're the guy to be out there ever
snap and they're not going to worry about you sliding
or falling down every once in a while as long
(24:45):
as you do the things that your team needs you
to do on a weekly base.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Help me understand from your perspective as a Hall of
Famer Drake May's development and contrasts that with Caleb Williams development.
Because the Bears are playing well I don't think they're
playing well because because of Caleb Williams. Where the Patriots
are playing well, and I believe that is in large
part to Drake May.
Speaker 9 (25:07):
Yeah, well, I mean, I feel like Drake played well
last year, but I feel he's in a system that
really fits what he does as a quarterback. I think
Josh McDaniels does a great job of designing plays. It's
what I call full field plays, where it's drop back,
read the coverage. When you know what the coverage is,
I've got a concept that can attack that coverage and
(25:28):
you just have to get your eyes there, read it,
and it speeds up the game for Drake May because
he's really good at doing those things and so the
system really fits who he is. And when you talk
about development, that to me is the first step in development.
Do you have a play designer, a play caller that
(25:48):
sees the game like the quarterback sees the game like
You can have a lot of really good plays in
an offense, but if it doesn't connect to how the
quarterback plays the game, it makes the game harder and
they're not comfortable with what they're doing every snap. I
believe they've got a great comfort level together to go
along with the way Drake is throwing the football. I
(26:10):
mean it's like effortless, it's easy, his ability to throw
the ball down the field. But I think Josh has
really sped up those reads for him so he can
play fast, know what he wants to do with the football,
and that just makes him more confident. On the other side,
with Caleb, I think Caleb is a guy that you know,
hasn't had to process information as much as maybe a
(26:33):
Drake may or some other quarterbacks. He's been a guy
that been able to rely on the athleticism. You know,
we watched him in college. You can make all the throws,
but he would buy a lot of time and he
would create because he was more comfortable with that. And
so what's happened is he's got to the NFL is
We're trying and everybody's trying. Ben's trying to get him
(26:53):
to play more conventional quarterback, go through his reads, his progressions,
stay in the pocket, and it's a battle for him.
It's a battle for him right now to change the
way that he's played the game. He's gotten better at
it from last year to this year. Last year wasn't
processing very fast, holding onto the football, you know, almost
too much, and taking too many sacks. This year he's
(27:16):
gotten better with those things, but still not there yet
where I believe it's a comfort level for him to go, oh,
I got this one, two, three, and work through those
things and feel comfortable in that place. So that's where
when you talk about the process of the two of them.
Drake more comfortable in that setting through college and where
(27:36):
he's at now. Caleb not as comfortable, but working through
it and fighting through it. And so he's gotten much
better from last year, but still has a ways to
go in that arena. And I think as he gets
more comfortable, he'll also get more accurate. That's the other
part of it is Drake has been extremely accurate throwing
the football.
Speaker 6 (27:56):
Caleb is not. Caleb's made a lot.
Speaker 9 (27:57):
Of big, explosive plays, but he's also a lot of layups,
and I think a lot of that comes with knowing
exactly what you want to do with the football, being
comfortable with that, and then being able that a read.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
This may sound strange, but it just came to my mind.
Can you have too much talent as a quarterback?
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Well?
Speaker 9 (28:18):
I think a lot of talent I say this, Dan,
and I didn't have this, so I'm just speculating like
everybody else. But yeah, I do believe the more talent
and the more skills and gifts you have, the more
it's going to kind of open up the possibilities of
what you could do on every play. You know, that
(28:39):
the throws that you could make, the ability to be
creative instead of staying in the pockets, you know, those
sorts of things I think open up more possibilities for
a guy like me. There was one possibility you're going
to stand in the pocket, You're going to read the
coverage and you're gonna have to throw it to the
right guy, and so it simplified things for me from
that standpoint. I've all always wondered how an athletic quarterback
(29:02):
decides when it's time to run, like when is it
time to take off as opposed to staying in your progressions,
you know, and even forcing that issue. You know, I've
talked a lot about it that I believe, you know,
athletic quarterbacks, we've got more and more of them now.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
They kind of grow up not being forced to learn.
Speaker 9 (29:20):
How to read the field or read defenses and progress
through their reads. Their you know, their coach, drop back,
see if your first guy's open. If he's not, go
create a play for us. And so that becomes their
norm more and more and more. And these guys are
such great athletes they get further and further and further
in their careers without having to learn the opposite. So,
(29:41):
like with Caleb Williams, now we're getting into the NFL
level against the best players in the world and we're saying, hey,
now you have to change the way you've always played,
and you've got to learn to process better, and you've
got to learn to stay in the pocket, and I
mean that's got to be a really hard thing to do.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
So to your point, the more skills you have, the more.
Speaker 9 (30:02):
You and I don't even want want to say get
away with, the more things you can do on a
given play through the majority of your career. And then
when we try to find tune that and say we
can't do this as much anymore, and you can't do
this as much anymore, it's always going to be I
think a struggle for those guys for at least a period,
and then it leads the question can they ever get
to maybe the point we want them to get to
(30:24):
in terms of, hey, you got to be able to
process and create at the same type of level. I
think that's really hard and we don't see a lot
of guys that can do that.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
You know.
Speaker 9 (30:34):
Lamar Jackson is one of the guys that I think
does that really well. Josh Allen has shown at times
he can do that really well. But I think that's
a tough dynamic to fight for these guys that are
just incredible athletes for the majority.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
Of their lives.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, and I always bring this up because it's not
necessarily Michael Vick or Kyler Murray. Steve Young was like this.
Steve Young said, Hey, I had one read, not there,
I'm running and then all of a sudden, Bill Walsh
is like, what are you doing? Stay in the pocket,
go through your progressions. And he became a Hall of
Fame quarterback because of that. He had the ability to
(31:10):
be able to extend plays. But Bill Walsh would say,
will you stop doing that, go through your progressions. You've
got great receivers, and he became one of the most
accurate quarterbacks in NFL history.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Yeah, and it makes the game easy.
Speaker 9 (31:24):
You want the offense to work for you, Like I
still think even with some of these great athletes, and
maybe Lamar is the exception, but it's hard to win
games in the NFL week in and week out, trying
to be athletic. You're trying to run around it and
make plays. You've got to allow the game where the
offense and it.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
We lost you, We lost your connection there. We can
see you, we can't hear you. That's weird.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
How often does that happen? It is the audio and
not the video often. Yeah, Kurt, we'll catch up with you,
but thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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listen live.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
We bring in Brian Winhorns to the Mothership, ESPN senior
NBA writer. How did we get to this point? Ryan?
With Jannis in the bucks?
Speaker 8 (32:22):
Not one hundred percent sure where we are because one
of the things that I've been talking to the league
executive types about in the last twenty four hours is
do we think that this time the honest will actually
go all the way and formally say it's time to
trade me because he's rattled the saber before and you know,
(32:43):
one of the more fascinating stories that came out of
this whole summer, and it didn't come out in the summer.
It came out in October and Schamstrania, my colleague at ESPN,
reported it. But in August Jannis talked to the Bucks.
And different people can use different verbs here, and I'm
not trying to like step on anybody, but he showed
(33:06):
an interest in wanting to be on the New York Knicks,
and to the point where the Knicks and the Bucks
had trade talks. And I know what Doc River said yesterday, said,
Giannist didn't ask to be traded. Okay, he may not
have said those words. I promise you the Bucks it
wasn't their idea, okay. And I know that it caught
(33:28):
the Knicks by surprise, Dan. And you know how I know,
because like two weeks before, they signed Michale Bridges to
a contract extension, a really good contract extension, nice one.
And it's not that they wouldn't have signed him or
that they absolutely were going to trade him in that deal,
but once you signed him to that, you can't trade
him for six months. So if you were thought that
(33:50):
you were about to potentially enter a very important negotiation.
You wouldn't take one of those guys off the table.
So I think it caught the Knicks off guard too,
And so what I think happened was it was honest
his idea. Now you can bring people on here and
have them testify or whatever. It's fine. The talks took place, okay.
And the important thing is Jannis watched what the Bucks
(34:13):
did over the summer, which was do this crazy move.
It was a two hundred million dollar move. They cut Dame,
making one hundred million dollars in dead money, and then
they signed Miles Turner for one hundred million. So they
took one hundred million dollar problem, which was a player
in his thirties recovered from Achilles, and they made it
(34:35):
a two hundred dollar investment for a Miles Turner, who
is a quality player, just helped the team to get
to the finals, excellent, a high quality role player, but
not a star player. He saw those moves and then
he said, I have some interest in becoming a Nick. Okay.
So that happened, and it didn't come out until October.
(34:55):
And at that point, Jannis, they had signed his two brothers,
you know, and Janness was playing for the Bucks and everything,
but like that was a real indication of what y
where Yannis's head was at. Here's the other thing. Yannis's
family moved to Greece. If you know anything about Yannis,
(35:15):
the family is extraordinarily important to him. It's one of
the reasons why the Bucks have signed his two brothers,
because they know how important it is to have his
family with him. That he sent his fam He might
have had ten reasons to send his family to Greece,
but again, these are actions that you're looking at going
you know, So what the league is wondering is knowing
(35:37):
what happened in the summer, knowing about the other stuff,
knowing that the team is not doing well, although they
had their best win of the year last night they
beat the Pistons without Yanis. Will Janis actually go forward
and say, Okay, I wanted to because I don't think
the Bucks are going to get there Dan, because the
Bucks are so mortgaged and so deeply invested in keeping him,
(36:01):
and I actually don't blame them. And so that's really
what the question is is will Yannis take the next
step besides the saber rattling that he's.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Done before why the Knicks?
Speaker 8 (36:12):
Good question, you know, he he really, you know, in
all of the all of the discussions from Jannis and
from John Horst, their general manager and doc, no one
denied those talks took place. The Knicks certainly didn't deny it.
And I thought, I know that they happened. And you know,
I will say that if you were in a vacuum
(36:35):
choosing where to go, you would want to go to
the Eastern Conference. You know, I think you know, you
know you we want to stay East. And so if
you looked at the Eastern Conference and you said, well,
where would I want to be as a player, where
do I think I can you know, make a big impact?
Where could we win right away? Like New York rises
to the top. You could make some cases for some
(36:56):
other teams, you know, Miami for example, you know, maybe Atlanta,
maybe Boston. All that that type of trade would be
a lot more complicated. But like you know, if you
go through that process, I could see how you know,
Toronto would be as it would be an interesting team.
Now that's actually kind of an interesting team because you know,
you know, national players seem to like Toronto. But I
(37:17):
think you know, in August, I think New York made
some sense, and it may not have made some sense
from what the Knicks were in position to trade at
the time. And I certainly don't think the Bucks were
motivated to do it, like they probably wanted everything the
Knicks could possibly offer before they would even get mildly interested.
But that's the other question is if Jannis does so
(37:38):
that There's really three questions that have been involved on
my phone for the last twenty four hours. One, will
Jannis actually go to the point where he says I
want to be traded because he hasn't gotten to that
point yet or before. Two, if he does get traded,
will the list be longer than the Knicks than it
was just a one team thing over the summer? And Three,
(38:01):
if Yannis has a let's let's say there's three teams,
let's say there's six teams, whatever, do the Bucks have
to do business with just his list? Because he does
have one year left on his contract plus a player option,
so next year you'd be faced with having Giannis in
a walk year. So typically in that situation, you would
(38:24):
if you were trading for a guy, you'd want to
know he is staying, especially if you're given a lot
of stuff for him. But it's funny Dan, As I've
talked to people in the league, people don't necessarily think
that would necessarily be true with Yannis. So I'm not sure.
But those are the three questions and the topics that
are going around the league right now.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I'm guessing Brunson would be off limits with the Knicks.
That'd be the only guy that'd be off limits.
Speaker 8 (38:50):
I would advise them. I haven't. I don't have insight
on I don't have insight on that, but I would do.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
So.
Speaker 8 (38:54):
The challenge with the Knicks is they really don't have
meaningful draft assets to give. Some of these other teams
we could mention have their own draft picks, and other
teams draft picks that they can offer. The Knicks don't
have draft picks, so you would have to make it
a player based trade. And here's the thing about the
Bucks that's important to understand the Bucks, and this is
(39:16):
this sort of backs up why they've double triple quaudripled down.
They don't control I think their next three or four drafts.
They've either traded the pick away or they've traded the
swap away. Certainly this year and next year, I know
for sure, I think even twenty eight two.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And so when you're in.
Speaker 8 (39:31):
That position, you really can't enter into a trade thinking, well,
we're gonna rebuild because you don't control your pick. And
there's a few teams in the NBA right now who
are in bad shape but don't control their pick, and
they're in hell. And so Milwaukee would probably have if
they you know, Milwaukee's probably doesn't want this to happen
at all, but if they get to the point they
(39:52):
have to trade them, they're probably going to look to
make a player based trade or the draft asks that
that they're gonna get are going to be third part teams.
In other words, if you do a team with if
you do a deal with the team that you're trading
Giannis to you and you're getting their picks for the next
couple of years, that's not that exciting because that team
stayed going to be good. If that team has a
third team's picks, yeah, you'd be interested in that so
(40:14):
that it doesn't rely on your performance or that team
with Giannis's performance. But now you're threading a needle. So
that's another reason why New York would make some sense.
They have some players that the Bucks could get that
would help them retrofit their team.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Right now, I'm talking to Brian win Horst, ESPN, senior
NBA writer, help me understand the Chris Paul situation of
why it had to happen on the road in Atlanta.
Speaker 8 (40:40):
Well, that seems crazy, you know, And one of the
things that Lawrence Frank So, first off, Lawrence Frank had
this press conference yesterday the general manager of the President.
I think it's the president is its title, And first off,
he said, puts all the blame on me, which maybe
Lawrence wanted to do it, but I promise you it
was not only him who wanted to do it, but
(41:04):
doing it the way they did it. He said that
they made the decision on Sunday. Dan, Okay, let's just
let's just take that for the truth. Why was he
in Miami on Monday. They're starting a long road trip
and you know, Lawrence explained that the reason this happened
(41:25):
in the middle of the night was because their flight
was delayed by five hours, which it was. They didn't
land in Atlanta Airport until nine thirty. You know how
long it is to get from Atlanta Airport to downtown.
It doesn't take five minutes. They met at eleven o'clock.
In the meeting went several hours. So why do you
do it at eleven o'clock? You know, I don't you know?
(41:46):
So like the actual functionality of the way they handled
it is wretched the decision. You've been around sports for
a long time. When you have a player who is
very vocal, who all of a sudden has a small role,
it doesn't work. Chris Paul's whole career, he's been very vocal.
(42:08):
He's been vocal with the officials, He's been vocal with
his coach, the opposing coach. He's been vocal with the
opposing star player, with his star play, with his role players.
Imagine what he says off the court. You can just
see what he says on the court. And when you're
the star player and the point guard and you're playing
all eighty two games and your team is competing for
conference titles or whatever, that's one thing. When you're doing
(42:31):
that and the team is sinking and you're of a
much smaller role, it doesn't work. I knew this twenty
years ago when I started the NBA. This is a
bit of a classic case situation. And you could say well,
then why the Clippers bring him in knowing that he
would have a small role and that this was possible.
That's fair And I would just say that of the
Clippers miscalculations this season, it's on the list, But there's
(42:53):
a long list of Clippers' miscalculations so far.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
When do you feel like we'll get a true sense
of le Bron's role with the Lakers? If is he
a third option now? And you know, I guess the
future of how long does he want to play, feel
like he can play and being a maybe a third
option for the Lakers and what role that plays.
Speaker 8 (43:17):
It's an interesting set of circumstances. It's happened because I
thought Lebron was awesome last year. He was second team
All NBA. I thought he looked great. You know, the
Lakers had a disappointing end of the season. There was
a bad matchup for them with Minnesota. But I thought
that they really achieved in the regular season. They got
the three seed. I mean, I know, the difference between
(43:38):
the three and the six was really tight, but they
got it. And you know, people were saying to me,
why do you think this is it for Lebron? And
I'm like, no, like look at him. He's still one
of the top ten to fifteen players in the league.
And then a couple of things happened. First off, he
had two injuries dan So he sprained his knee in
(43:58):
the last playoff against the Wolves. In fact, had they
extended that series, I don't know if he could have played.
He missed training, he was out for weeks. He had
He's never missed a playoff game in all you know,
twenty years in the playoffs, He's never missed a playoff game.
I'm not sure you've been been able to play in
the next game. So he had this knee injury. Then
(44:19):
he hits the sciatica. So he has the most injured
offseason he's ever had, which maybe isn't a surprise at
age forty, but it's still completely new. Also, they get Luca,
so Lebron was already having a great season. Lebron played
well when Luca after Luca got there, but the Luca
thing happens. Then he has the injuries. Okay, so these
(44:42):
are two things that we've never seen. We've never seen
him not be the a one A guy on his team.
We've never seen him have off season injuries. Before then
his team without him plays really really well. Absolutely never happened.
Maybe his team has been able to keep their knows
above water when he's been out, whether it's been for
(45:02):
you know, a week or a month, they've never achieved.
You've never looked at a team that has missed Lebron
for multiple games and gone, man, they're doing great. And
Austin Reeves is having a career year. So you've got
this series of circumstances that he's never experienced before, not
to mention not getting able to start a season, not
having to have a training camp, So we are in
(45:23):
completely unknown territory for him. It would be unknown territory
if any one of those things was true. Now the
whole menu is true. And by the way, he rejoins
the team as the number one score in the history
of the league. Where the two guys on his team
are in the top ten in scoring, Reeves and Luca
are like one in nine. I don't have even checked
(45:44):
it today. Maybe Reeves dropped a little bit, but when
he came back, I think they were one in eight.
So you're asking, you're this is a completely different situation
he's ever done, and the team's winning. You know you're
not coming in and boy, the team's struggling, and now
you got so I think he is absent, absolutely in
a little bit of the deep end of the pool
that he's never been in before. I mean, how long
(46:05):
has it been since Lebron's been in a situation that
he hasn't not only seen but mastered. So this is
awkward and he's showing his age. You know the other
night in that game was really a game where I
really looked thought Lebron looked like an older player for
the first time where he wasn't getting left. I mean
he had no rebounds, no steals, no blocks. That's never
(46:27):
happened in twenty three years, thousands of games. So you're
asking a really relevant question. I don't think anybody knows.
I think he's going through this day to day trying
to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Would you be more surprised if he played another year
or he retired at the end of this year?
Speaker 8 (46:46):
I am. I thought, you know, even as recently as
last spring, he has years left. I was not entertaining
that this was going to be it regardless of the contract,
which as that's also something he's never experienced before. But
it's not really relevant. I don't think that's affecting his
day to day.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Now.
Speaker 8 (47:06):
I'm just I'm just in the middle of I don't know,
and I know it's an unsatisfactory answer, and I think
Lebron has pretty much said the same thing. He said,
I don't know. I think Rich Paul, his agent, has
said I don't know. I don't know. But that's that's
a departure from me because I was in the camp
of this guy could Tom Bradiot like I mean, and
he still could Tom Bradiot, but if you watched him
(47:28):
play last year, there's no way you said that's a
guy about to retire.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Wendy, thank you. I know you're busy. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 8 (47:36):
Have a good day.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
That's Brian Windhorst.
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