June 26, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly talk with iconic football coach Bill Belichick and Bridgewater's legendary founder Ray Dalio about their guiding principles for success. Belichick tells the hosts how he was inspired by Dalio’s book “Principles” to write “The Art of Winning: Lessons from My Life in Football,” and why he’s excited for a new challenge coaching at the University of North Carolina. Dalio meanwhile recounts how his principles have become tools that can be applied across industries.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back to the Deal. I'm Jason Kelly, I'm Alex Rodriguez.
All right, a very special episode. This is something a
little bit different for us. First of all, it feels
like world's colliding. Ray Dalyio, founder of Bridgewater Associates, best
selling author, and Bill Belichick kind of needs no introduction,
an incredibly successful NFL coach now coaching in the college ranks.
(00:34):
Their buddies sort of an unlikely partnership, kind of like
you and me exactly.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
And here are two guys that are from two different
worlds but have been masters at pattern recognition, and they
also share a lot of the same core values and principles.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, so principles is the key word there. It was
the book that Ray Dalio wrote, runaway bestseller. It inspired
Bill Belichick to write the Art of Winning. They're gonna
dig deep and tell us about the lessons that they learned.
I'm so excited. Let's get after it.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We have two people who you might be a little
bit surprised to see together. This is so cool for us.
A very special conversation. Ray Dalio, Bill Belichick, Welcome to
the deal.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Thank you, thank you. It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All right. So we have you here because you guys
are buddies, like we're buddies, your buddies, Like you know
how I got to ask you to start? Ray? How
does this happen?
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Like?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How does this friendship come together?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
I get a call from them? Whoa Bill Belichick call?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
When is this from there? When is this Bill?
Speaker 5 (01:48):
About? Four years ago? Four years ago I read Ray's
book and Principles Times bestseller, and we're about the same age.
And he's going through his life. I'm relating to the
Times and he's going through his career and Principles every
page is like that's what I'm trying to do. God,
(02:10):
I love the way he articulated that. And it's page
after page after page, and this is amazing. I mean,
I just I fell in love with the book, but
I connected. I felt like to every single principle, not
just one, but ABCD and then the little numbers with
it too. And so I called him and I said, Ray,
I'd love to talk to you. This is an amazing book,
(02:31):
best I've.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Ever read, Principles of Success. Like what was so incredibly
cool is here we are in totally two totally different domains,
and we have the exact same principles for success, which
we believe are universal principles for success. Like out of
his book, I've got a bunch here. If people understand
these principles, whatever they're doing, it is a path to success.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
And Ray talking about these principles, and I know we're
going to get into a few of those. This is
such an porn writing. When did you formulate this idea
and then share with the world which you're doing, you know,
God's work right now, because I can't wait to hear
more about these principles.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Well, two things. When I was making investment decisions, I thought, well,
what are my criteria for making the investment decisions? So
I should write them down, see how they would have
worked in the past, and so on. How do you
keep a team of fifteen hundred people tight? What are
you doing? Why am I making the decisions? So I
would write down principles. Then I started realize, same things
(03:29):
happen over and over again, right, same things happen in
his game and my game, your game, same thing. So
then you start thinking about principle, you know, not just
the thing that you're doing at the time, and when
I started to do that, it became a habit in
my life. And so that was what was incredibly cool
when he called and same principles. These are the gifts
(03:51):
that he and I want to give, right and I'm
sure that they'll resonate with you. But their principles for
success whatever your domain is.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, all right, so that's your meat cute. There's a
meat cute between YouTube that has echoes of that, I
think right out.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah. I mean, I've always admired Bill and everything he does,
the way he comports himself. Obviously, I'm friendly with Tom
and just Tom Brady. Tom Brady, I'm sorry, and he's
just Tom around. You know the fact that one of
the things you have an economics degree, okay, but you're
also a world class communicator and one of the greatest motivators.
And I think you know, pat Riley is another guy
(04:27):
we've spoken about that's an incredible motivator. I'm wondering, and
I'll get back to how we connected, But where did
you learn that the ability to motivate and articulate at
a really high level.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
I think it's one of those I was an only child,
so didn't have any siblings to communicate with. But I
think it was really from being around my dad, around
the Naval Academy, around those Navy football teams, and watching
the way that they interacted, the way they taught, the
way the coaches taught the players, learn the communication and
the interaction between the staff, the players and those teams.
(05:03):
As I was growing up hanging around my dad and
hanging around those great Navy teams of the sixties and
the Roger Staubach, Tom Lynch, Pat Donaldy, Jim Campbell and
those guys that were just they're my heroes. They are
my idols, and I learned a lot from watching them.
I didn't know I was really learned it, but I
think in retrospect that's where a lot of it came from,
(05:23):
because they were great communicators, great teammates, very unselfish, and
there was never any indecision. It was clear cut, here's
the way it is, then we do it, execute it.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So I do want you to tell the story only
because I do think one of the interesting lessons that
we hear on this show, and we're certainly hearing from
you guys, is this idea of if you want to
meet somebody like reach out to them. Now, you know
you got to call from Bill Belichick, you got to
call from Alex Rodriguez. You're picking up the phone and
maybe Jason Kelly, I don't know, but tell us about
the moment where you because you've been very good about
(05:56):
this throughout your career, Alex of being like, yeah, I
want to learn from that. So what inspired you to
call him?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I mean people like Ray and Bill, they're some of
the greats of all time, right, And I just reached
out and they didn't think I will get a text
back because we don't really weally know each other.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So you just hit them with like a hey bro.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I actually text him. I got his I said, hey,
Alex Rodriguez, I'm kind of paraphrasing obviously a big fan
of you. Congrats on your past season. If you're ever
in Florida, maybe we can go to lunch, go to dinner.
And he reached back very nice. He goes, you know,
he's a big baseball fan too, and we have a
lot of major friends, Joe Tory and all the people.
And he said, sure, I'll be down in Florida. I'll
(06:34):
give you a call when i'm down there. So I
went down to Florida. We went a couple times, We've
had a nice dinner, and we've had a really really
nice time.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You know, you have developed these relationships, close relationships with
athletes over your entire career, and you talk about sort
of admiring the guys who played for your dad. But
when an athlete like Alex reaches out, like what are
you thinking and what are you thinking in terms of
like what you can learn? Because that actually goes right
into some of the principles that are here in this book.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Well, one thing about pro sports and competitive sports is
other people in your sport aren't that excited about helping you.
Ah oh, And so you go to another coach in
the NFL, and how much does he really want to
help you? How much you really want to help him.
You can have a good friendship and a relationship with him,
but it's a little holding back. And I think that
(07:23):
a lot of my closer relationships with people like Alex
and Joe and Tito fran Conan the baseball world, because
I would, you know, I came to the Yankees camp
several times and watch you guys work and talk to
Joe and how Joe managed his professional athletes and how
other coaches pat Riley and other coaches and other sports
handled their athletes, and there's Tony LaRussa. There's some common
(07:46):
ground there different sports, but coaches handling pro athletes and
pro teams, and the conversation is a lot easier, yeah,
than it is when you're trying to oh he told
me something about that player. Oh he told me something
about that play. You know, you're kind of holding back there.
And so you know, Alex and I had dinner several
times when we talked and it was a great conversation
and free flowing. It's nothing to hide, right, It's the Israeli.
(08:09):
It was a very open conversation and relationship and I
love that.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
So all I'm hearing, but just so you know what
it's like to go through my ears, is like I
want that guy's principles, Like don't you want Bill Belichick's
yeah principles, Yes, Okay, don't you want that guy's principles.
Every decision that's made is just an execution of those
principles to the formula of success. So you can imagine
the conversation we had.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So on that point, Ray like, what is something from
Bill's book that is a commonality, like, what is something
you saw that he's done in football that you were like, yeah,
I do that as an investor. Or. You know, people
who are listening or watching can apply that to their businesses.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
There's being successful yourself, and then there's running an operation
that's successful. Right, So there are principles for each of
those things in mind are identical. Okay, they're just applied. Now,
can I read you a few? I'll give you Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Give us one that you're most excited about it.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I'm going to give you a few. Okay, Okay, I'm sorry,
I have to give you you So picking somebody, he says,
do you love the game? Do you work hard? Are
you intelligent? If the answers are yes, yes, and yes,
we're good to go. Okay, So now think about that.
(09:28):
That's absolutely right. Okay, what do I want? You have
to love the game? This is true in my game?
I play a game, okay, very competitive game.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Uh, investing, you're talking about investing.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
You know how every minute of every day you get
either punched in the face or rewarded.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Can I take a beat on that one?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I want to come back to another principle, because when
you tell that story. I think about one number. It's
a page in your book that's dedicated to a very
specific person whose name has already come up, and that's Tom.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Brady, right, so page one N I love this because
Tom Brady was the one hundred and ninety ninth pick.
Like so the date, I would probably suggest Bill, each
body should stay away from this guy. But there's somebody
specifically that you saw on Tom that nobody else saw.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
That's it. Yeah, you know. Tom Brady played as a
backup quarterback to Greasy. Greasy went in the NFL. Tom
was a senior. This is University of Michigan. It's University
of Michigan. Tom was a senior, and evidently they had
promised Drew Henson, who was a big recruit as a freshman,
playing time as a freshman. So Tom was the starter,
but Henson played a lot and it didn't look like
(10:32):
he was quite ready to play. Tom would play and
then you know, Henson had some issues and then Tom
would finish the game. And finally in the Orange Bowl
against Alabama, it was Tom's best game, his final game,
and you could really see him play. Talent was, you know,
was okay, but he was very smart. He loved football
and he worked extremely hard, and so he came in
(10:54):
as our fourth string quarterback in two thousand fourth, which
no team carries four quarterback right, and honestly, two the
guys in front of him weren't all that good, so
that's where he was. But he became great, and day
after day after day after day, he just kept improving,
and I signed a player, Damon Hewart. I signed a
(11:16):
player from Miami as a backup quarterback in two thousand
and one because I wasn't sure Tom was going to
be a backup quarterback. Tom beat him out in training
camp and became the number two, and then unfortunately, when
Bledsoe got hurt, Brady got his opportunity and he played well.
We had a good team. He played well. We won
a championship, but we weren't great offensively. We only scored
(11:37):
three touchdowns in three postseason games. And then in two
thousand and two. By two thousand and three, he became
really good for great and had a great, great career.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I want to double up on that because specifically, as
he walked around the hallways in the locker room, in
the weight room, in the video room, was there somebody
specific that you just kept looking at this guy and go,
this guy the real deal. He's not messing around. He
is consistent. What was it about him? But you said, huh,
let me take a double look at Tom.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
His improvement, his work ethic, and his improvement and his leadership.
We had a young team in two thousand and he
kept a lot of the rookies and first year players
out and they would just run plays after practice by themselves,
and he ran it, you know, and you could see
his leadership that hey, we're doing this wrong on the play,
or hey you need to go a motion faster, or
you know, whatever it was. And you could see his
(12:27):
leadership start to take over amongst the rookies, not as
a team leader, but as the rookies. And then once
he became the quarterback, then his leadership really accelerated. He
worked out with the offensive lineman, he hung out with
the offensive lineman. He was just one of the guys.
He wasn't some prima on a quarterback. He connected to everybody,
(12:47):
the guy who picked up the towels in the locker room,
to the owner, to everybody in between. And I was,
you know, fortunate that year I met with him. Unfortunately,
our quarterback coach died that year, and so Charlie and
I kind of, you know, co coached Brady and double
teamed him in terms of, you know, trying to accelerate
his his knowledge and his experience. But you know, he
(13:11):
became a special guy and his work ethic, his competitiveness
is toughness is intelligence, eventually took him past other players
who were more talented. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Interesting, Just to follow up on that, you write something
into your book that I found so interesting, which is
he was And keep me honest here. I believe you
wrote he was hard to coach because he was so prepared. Yes,
(13:46):
and so how do you do it? Like I mean,
I would imagine this is something you run into in
your business.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
It's identical. Now, if you're listening to him the way
I'm used to listening, he was describing Tom Brady. Okay,
he's also describing the recipe. He was coachable, he was humble. Okay,
Now you can write these things down. That's the formula.
Once you start to think about the I look for
(14:12):
the same things, right. Okay, So now if you're thinking
how do I run a team, and you write them
down in the general case, not just the particular, there's
Tom Brady. That's the story of him. But if you say,
what's a winner, how do you pick a winner? It's
the same.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Qualities, right, And so in the case of Tom Brady, Bill,
he's harder to coach. So how do you do it?
Because again, I'm thinking about Rai's business, I'm thinking about
Alex's business, I'm thinking about my business. You have these
superstars who like show up, they work hard, they're ready
to go. So how what's the secret to managing them?
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Well, I always felt like I was really well prepared
when I went and talked to Tom and I tried
to teach him from a coaching standpoint what he needed
to know, which was what the defensive coordinator was thinking
on the other side of the field. That was the
big thing. Wow, And we got into a situation where,
you know, I went in there and I said, you know, Tom,
here's what they're playing. And it was a coverage that
(15:07):
they could have made an adjustment to. And I said,
I've never made seen him make that cover adjustment. I
don't think they have that in their system. And Tom
kind of let me down easy. He said, well, I
don't know. I saw something last year against Green Bay.
I don't know if that's what they were doing or not. Well,
that's exactly what they were doing. Wow. He just didn't
embarrass me.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
I went back and watching like, Okay, he was better
prepared for that meeting than I was. I'm not going
to let that happen again. Right, And so now I'm
not only going through the games this year, I'm going
back through the games last year too. He forced me
to be better prepared and be a better coach because
he was so well prepared, and it was always like
a little competition like, hey, have you see that player?
Did you see that play? Remember that played from three
years ago? And so But you know, I love that
(15:50):
because Tom did it with grace. He could have been
he could have just said, hey, coach, once you go
look at this game, right, But he didn't. But that's
kind of the way he and because he was so
well prepared. Yeah, forced me to be And when I
say he was hard to coach, I mean that truly
is a compliment, right. Right.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So I have a question for Rank. Yeah go, so Ray,
going on your principles, I'm really interested that you build
Bridgewater with the experience you have today. How do you
think about building a work structure and an organization, and
how do you apply those principles? You meet so many
great people, so many talented men and women. How do
you go about picking your top people? Talking about your principles?
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I think he described it so well. It's the same
you're building a machine. You have to look, Okay, what
is your machine? I don't know where exactly here it is,
but basically he describes it very well. Okay, what is
a team like? What are the positions they play? What
are the characteristics of the qualities that are necessary to
play that position? Well? How does that person then have
(16:47):
to interact with you? They've got to understand what you
want in terms of that job. How do they react
to pain? How do they react to failure? I have
a principle pain plus reflection equals progress. Right in other words, so,
how do you feel about when you're knocked back? What
do you do with that? Do you hide it? Are
you embarrassed about your mistakes? Or do you go at it?
(17:09):
Do you find it? So it's these elements. So you
have to build a machine, and the machine is what
that organization is? What are your goals? You'd have to
know where your goals are, how do you build the machine?
What is the attribute for each one of those? How
do I do the testing? I do testing of people.
He does testing of people. We do testing. How do
they fit into that He's looking for attributes, I'm looking
(17:32):
for attributes. What is that attribute necessary for that job?
How do they work together? And how do you orchestrate it?
It's the same. All of this can be even systemized
and computerized. These principles and the ways you do it.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So if I'm talking about testing, let's just role play
right now, because I want to see how you apply
those principles. If you're trying to hire a great managing
director or a CIO for Bridgewater back in the day,
and you love him, I mean, he's a ten out
of ten, He's a Tom Brady for you, but he
wants ten dollars and you think he should be meaning
six dollars. How do you fill that gap? Do you
(18:06):
just quit or do you just keep pursuing.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
We talk about goals and values and what are you after? Okay,
what matters to me? To me, like, I have certain
values in the culture. You have to have a culture.
Mine is meaningful work and meaningful relationships. Through radical truthfulness
and radical transparency. Does it mean something to be on
this particular team? And also the other side of it?
(18:30):
Am I fair with you? I believe that I have
to be the far side of fair. I've got to
be generous to you. How are we with each other?
And what is our ultimate goal? These are the things
that we have to agree on.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And so Bill Ray said something a minute or so
ago that is very interesting and really jumped out at
me as I was reading your book. And because this
is a family show and a family network, I'm going
to use the sanitized version, which is four important words.
I messed that up. It's not what are you saying?
And I admire you your transparency and your directness in this,
(19:03):
but admitting mistakes and that's something we all make them.
Tell us how you got to that, how you learned
about that, and how to best deal with mistakes that
you made?
Speaker 5 (19:14):
Well. I think the number one area for me, Jason
is when time is of the essence, and that's in
a game. You come to the sideline, something bad happened
out on the field. We gotta fix it. What's wrong?
And the quickest way to fix it is if I
(19:34):
can say I messed that up. It's my fault. Everybody else.
Keep doing what you're doing. I'll make the adjustment that
it all takes care of it.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
But if we all sit there and it's like, well,
should I do this? Should I have done that? Should
he have done something else? Well, sometimes you have to
figure that out. Okay, you've play a little bit wider,
you pay a little bit tighter, you get back up
a little bit. Here's how we're going to handle that.
But sometimes it's as simple as just screw it up. Yeah,
it's my fault. Keep doing what you're doing. We're fine.
(20:04):
I'll make the adjustment. It won't happen again.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Is there a time that really sticks out in your mind?
When that happened?
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Multiples and I've done it. It was a bad call.
I called the wrong defense against the wrong personnel group. Yeah,
it was a bad call. I'll never do that again.
That's my fault. Forget that play. Next play. Yeah, okay, hey,
it was my fault. I should have been in this gap.
I was too wide. I got it. Okay, great, we
don't talk to everybody else. Keep doing what they're doing.
(20:31):
But in football, you give them a twenty yard run,
should I have done this? Should I have done that?
Should I've done this? Should I? You have four or
five guys thinking like, hey, was it me? It was?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
No, here's what it was. Right, Just takes care of it. Okay,
we're done.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Because one of the things you point out in the
book is that by doing that as a leader, you
essentially give people who work for you permission to do
the same thing and also set the expectation that they
will also own their mistakes. And do you remember it
when it's just like.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
You said, we all make them. Yeah, we all make them.
So own them, correct them, and put it behind us.
And it's every day we make them every day.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Multiple the attitude about mistakes, the attitude about failures, the
attitude about weaknesses, that's everything. I mean, that's a huge
part of it. In any business, you will be into it.
It's the attitude. And you could see the attitude. So
when it's clear and you reinforce that, okay, and so
you create a culture.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And one of the two things that you guys share,
one of the things that I really admires the radical
transparency and honesty and just getting to the point I
feel like so many people bs around and you never
get anywhere. You're like dancing around and it's like that
makes it awkward. Where did you get that and why
did you think that was so important to build up Bridgewater? Well,
as one of your principles.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I mean, it's exactly the same. He's playing a game.
I'm playing a game. There's the in the moment, and
then there's going into it on the next day. Whenever day,
you sit back and you watch the films and you
learn from it, right, So you know that fundamentally you've
got to do this right. And so for me, it's
always reflection on mistakes and learning personal mistakes, systematic mistakes.
(22:12):
You can't avoid it. If you want to be a winner, well,
it'll sort you out right. You don't do these things,
you're gone, right.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
So how would you use those principles? I'm going to
ask you, not for some advice, Ray, as a new
owner of an NBA team and WNBA team, how would
you apply your principles to build out a great team?
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Okay, know what your goals are, what your trade offs are,
built the goals. Everything is a five step process. Know
what your goals are. On the way to your goals,
you're going to encounter your problems, your obstacles. Okay, identify
your obstacles. You have to identify them and not tolerate them.
Number three is diagnose them to the root cause. The
(22:50):
root cause is that root cause a weakness of you,
a weakness of them, something. What is the root cause.
Once you have that root cause, you have to change
that thing to make good. Number four is then you
have to design to make a change. You have to
do something. It's the person, is it, the behavior you're
misgene working? And then once you make the design, you've
(23:12):
got to do it. You've got to follow through in
doing it. And in my opinion, just life is these
five steps over and over. What is my goal? You
get it clear? Okay, on the way there, I'm going
to have my problems and obstacles, diagnose them their root cause,
get the right players and anyway, that's it.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Bill, You've played for multiple owners. No needs to mention names.
That's not important. What is important is from your experience
and your lens. What makes a good owner, good management
team to support what you do on the field.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Well, again, I think it starts with what Rajas said
is what are your goals? What are your goals? Is
it the bottom line? Is it financial? Is it championships?
You know, and you've been a player, and I'm sure
that you felt like as a player, you wanted a
path to a championship, and when something got in the
way of that path, you wanted it removed whatever it
(24:02):
happened to be, whether it's travel or personnel or the
way something was handled that it affected your performance as
a player. And I would say those two don't necessarily align,
you know, financial success and on the field success, that
there could be a trade off there that I think
as an owner you have to make a decision as
(24:23):
to you know what you probably want the best of both,
but ultimately which one is the driving force? And that's
probably like that in a lot of businesses. You know,
what are your goals and if goals are you know,
truly winning. You know as a player that you want
to remove every obstacle that could be in the way
of a manager or a player of achieving his winning goals. Financially,
(24:45):
that could be expensive.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So Ray, it's interesting, you know, over the years of
you know, covering Wall Street and investing for Bloomberg, I
got to watch you build this firm and part of
one of the underlying principles I believe is this notion
of innovation and always of changing and evolving and both
of you and we'll get to coach in the second.
Have you know, sort of pushed into new markets? How
(25:08):
do you think about that? How do you think about innovation?
What's your what are the principles underlying how you go
on and build into something new?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I don't know if it's much thinking about it as
much as feeling it. You know, you feel the excitement,
you feel the poll one of the principles that he's
praised so well. And I also is being comfortable being
uncomfortable okay? Or I might say also the reverse, I'm
sometimes uncomfortable if I'm coomfortable okay, okay? Because we were
(25:40):
talking about this, what the feeling is like like that.
Partially it's the striving for something, you know, beyond yourself,
the growth, the excitement of that feeling, and then partially
it's also the knowing that you, okay, what is it
that can make you better? Or where should I worry about? Now?
I got another prince. If you worry, you don't need
(26:02):
to worry. And if you don't worry, you need to worry. Okay,
because if you worry, then you'll take care of what
you're worrying about. And if you don't worry, it's going
to hit you probably. Yeah, So there's a little bit
of this in both of us as we start to
think about striving for things getting better, because it's not
where you are, it's the action. It's the evolution that
(26:24):
gets you excited to be better and better. Why is
he doing what he's doing? Why am I doing what
I'm doing? Still?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
So, I mean, let's talk about a major decision bill
that you make. You're arguably, maybe inarguably the best NFL
coach of all time that widely considered that and you
know could have gone off and done a lot of
things in the same way that you know Alex could
have gone off and done a lot of things when
he retired from baseball. Instead, you're like, you know what,
(27:04):
I'm going to go into one of the most challenging
sports environments in probably history, which is college sports and
specifically college football today, and that's what you're doing. You're
at UNC. How do you make that decision? Were you
were you thinking that? You know, maybe you were too
comfortable and you wanted to be uncomfortable, Like, how does
(27:26):
that decision happen?
Speaker 5 (27:27):
I've always wanted to be in college football. I probably
grew up in it at the Naval Academy, and I
tried to go into college football after college, but that
didn't really work out. So I ended up with the
Baltimore Colts and coach marcharbro to there and then that
path kind of led me through the NFL and that's
worked out all right. But it was an opportunity to
go to, you know, to a great school, great institution
(27:49):
with a great brand, yeah that you know hasn't achieved
what they want to achieve on the football field, and
so there's a lot of newness, a lot of learning.
But that's qite exciting for me and I have embraced it.
I don't know. Sometimes I feel like on the golf course,
some more comfortable in the trap than I am in
the middle of the fairway because it's usually going to
go in the trap. Yeah, and once I'm there, you know,
(28:10):
you've already got a bogie, so just you know, get
down in three from the trap. But yes, it's the
challenge and the newness and learning and finding out new
things and figuring out how you can apply principles in
a different environment. It's really exciting to me and I
enjoy the process.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, I mean, and it's so interesting too, because I
don't know if there's ever been a coaching change, you know,
especially from pro to college that has actually increased the
attention on somebody in the way that it has with you.
I mean, it reminds me a little bit. I mean,
you come in here like it's almost like moving from
the the Rangers to the Yankees in terms of the
(28:47):
of the scrutiny. I mean, don't you think.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah, that was a real awakening for me because, Coach,
the thing we've talked about this, we had like three
or four beat writers in Texas, probably two in Seattle,
and then you get to New York and there's forty
or fifty people literally watching your every move and what
you're hitting and what page. It was a lot of attention. So, coach,
how do you deal with that? How do you deal
with the attention? How do you do that in your
world over your career?
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Yeah, control what you can control, the noise, the expectations,
you know, all the things that are going on on
the periphery. Just focus on your job and control what
you can control. And the biggest thing for me really
and probably the number one principle in my life, is
just improvement. And how do you improve? You know, you
do your job, you pay attention to the details that
(29:32):
will help you do your job, You work hard, and
then ultimately put the team first and the team successful.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Unto Cincinnati, yes, that's just the greatest signs Just to Cincinnati.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
And keep improving.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Wait, remind us of that line. What's unto Cincinnati?
Speaker 3 (29:46):
What I remember is, you know, some reporter was asking
them some silly questions over and over again or something, and.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
Well, we had just gotten we had just gotten slaughtered
in Kansas City on Monday night. And you know, when
your team plays bad, it's not the pl I mean,
the players might have played bad too, but it's obviously
bad coaching, right, I mean, your team goes out there
and gets beat by four touchdowns. It's not all the players.
There's some bad coaching, So take accountability for that. You know,
you're the one responsible for it. So we got murdered
(30:14):
out there. And is this the end of the Patriots?
This is the end of Tom Brady? Is this the
end of Belichick's This is the end of the Patriots
and we played Cincinnati next week and you know what,
you can't say the game was over. It was in
the books, there's nothing wen about it. And we're just
gonna go on and get ready for Cincinnati, and we
bounce back beat them and ended up betting the Super
Bowl that year. But a lot of people counted us
(30:34):
out after that crushing loss. In kan't say it was
absolutely the dominant team that night, both coaching, playing, and
everything else. Yeah, but we controlled, we controlled, We moved
on to the next challenge, and we actually got better
over the course of the year and we're able to
beat Seattle in the Super Bowl, which was a you know,
a big win and a really big turning points for
(30:55):
the season because we still played good football several years
after that too.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
But Jason, the reason why that meant so much to me,
and Ray I'm going to bring you in on this,
is because it taught me a lesson coaches. There. Maybe
it was a Tuesday morning or Tuesday after practice.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
He's got his.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Hoodie, you know, his gray hoodie, and you know, looking
all cool, and the guy asked two or three different
questions the same question different ways, and he said it
two or three times he goes like I said, we're
onto Cincinnati. We're onto Cincinnati. And what that means to
me is we're on to the next bat, We're on
to the next trade, We're on to the next interview.
And in life and business and everything, will your kids.
You got to move on. And what I've learned is
(31:30):
traders hitters. They can't adjust and they can't move on.
They're still on the Kansas City game. Right, that's over.
We got to move forward. So I'm sure that's maybe
one of you.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
It's fundamental, right, Okay, he wants to improve, he wants
to learn. Okay, that's passive. And then the past is past.
What you get is lessons. There's only the future.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Can't change the past, no, but.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
There's the future. So it's okay. What you do is
you think about those mistakes, mistakes, and now your approach
to the mistake. We're saying it again. You approach the mistakes,
and how do I then learn from those mistakes that
people who learn from those mistakes. You know, pain plus
reflection equals progress. If you learn from those mistakes every time,
then you go on, then you'll be better. It's a journey.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
I think the big thing for me has always been
don't blame anybody and don't make excuses, figure out what
went wrong, correct it, and move on.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, and so you know, when you think about just
going back to your new job, Bill, you get into this,
you know, sort of exciting thing. Maybe some days it
does feel like you're in the trap, but there is
massive upside opportunity in college sports right now.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I think it's fair to say we've never been in
a moment like this where the business of college football
and college sports are so dramatically in flux. And so,
what's your playbook going into a situation like this when
you're bringing all of this professional experien and you have
a deep knowledge of the college game, obviously going back
to when you were a kid. What are the things
(33:05):
that are on your mind that you can contribute to
the success of UNC. But also, let's be honest, people
are going to be looking to you as a model
for what college football looks like going forward.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
Right Well, I'd say the coaching is the coaching, Football
is football. The hash marks are different, there's some modifications,
but that is what it is. I think the big
thing is, we'll see what the rules are in college
football once the House Settlement is in place, and I'm
sure there'll be some modifications in that as we go forward,
as different things happen and get modified in one way
or another. We'll see what all that is. But we'll
(33:38):
have to adapt. We'll have to adjust. That's part of life.
That's part of your.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Job, right, And just as a reminder that the House
Settlement for those listening who haven't followed it is like
closely as all of us have, is essentially a settlement
between the NCAA and the US House of Representatives that's
going to give back pay essentially to college athletes and
then set a cap effectively going forward for how much
much colleges can pay their athletes. Is that a fair overview?
Speaker 5 (34:03):
Yes, yes, it's pay, it's roster size, it's a whole
host of things. How the accounting is going to work,
what the disciplinary process will be, and what the discipline
will be for violations, and so forth and so on. Really,
I'm sure it'll be very comprehensive, and I'm sure it
will have multiple revisions, right, you know, over the next
several months or a couple of years as things start
(34:25):
to settle.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, Coach we were talking about. You have an economics
degree from college, so you're really good with numbers. You
were really really clever and smart on how you dealt
with salary cap. That was always kind of a dance.
You got a lot of players to take some less
money because they wanted to be part of your team
and your culture to win championships. Now you fast forward
to college, how is your pitch different to Tom Brady
(34:46):
or to a seventeen year old quarterback you're trying to
recruit to go to North Carolina.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
Well, again, my job is the same as has always been,
is to try to help the player become the best
player that he can be, and he of our team
be as successful as they can be on the field
and off the field. So those are really the goals,
and I'll do my best to help every player achieve
his goals. And I believe in our process, in our program,
and if they truly want to be great and they
(35:10):
were willing to come in and put in the work,
then I'm confident that we'll get them to a position
where they'll be ready for the next level or they'll
reach their full potential.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
You imagine if you had a son and it gets
a back for coach, but the phone rings and it's
like can I talk to Well, It's like, what, okay,
I'm going to North Carolina? Yeah, exactly, coach your day.
How is it different being the head coach of the
Patriots versus being the head coach of North Carolina Football?
Speaker 5 (35:34):
Pretty similar? There are a lot of similarities. I would
say one of the biggest differences in college football from
the NFL is the recruiting aspect of it. Next year
will be our twenty sixth recruiting class, but we're also
recruiting twenty seven players and even some twenty eight players.
We just finished a portal, and the volume of players
(35:57):
is a lot processes kind of the same. It's just
high school instead of college, but the volume is is
significantly bigger.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, that's an industrate. I hadn't really thought about that.
The ecosystem is a little bit different in terms of
like who's coming in around these but I mean, like,
I mean, I guess it's evolved, even always evolving.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
You know.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
There's also a lot more movement. Yeah, kids are transferring
in high school to different high schools, and obviously with
the portal, the transfers in college football are you know,
those numbers are escalating, you know, exponentially, and so just
trying to keep track of everybody, how many years they
have left, what their eligibility is, processing through the academics
and all that, just a volume that goes with it.
(36:36):
Is different than the NFL, where you, okay, here's the
draft class. They're all draft eligible. Draft them, which when
you get your turn and then you know, play them.
It's a little more straightforward. They're definitely more moving parts. Well.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Also in general in the NFL, you're dealing with contracts,
the players under contract, right I mean like that alone.
I mean, you have effective free agency in college.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
Right now now, at least for the moment, without contract,
without contract. So the contract issue is one that needs
to be at some point addressed, you know in the
college landscape it will be, but right now it's in flux.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
What's been the biggest surprise for you, coach, Like getting
to getting to UNC and sort of the college level.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
I'd say, no, no, real great surprises. It's you know,
I've been aware of college football based on our recruiting
process and scouting process, but some of the working for
a public company or a public university is a little
bit different than working for a private team. I'd say
that's that's one difference. And you know, the age of
the kids is a little bit different, but in the
end they have less bad habits, and so I think
(37:40):
you're able to, you know, build more good habits. But
they're not as experienced as the players we get at
the National Football League level. So but again, it's just adjusting,
and it's there's a level of newness and a little
level of learning that I need to acquire and I'm
in the process of doing that.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
It's exciting, and what's interesting about them is his principles
for dealing with that excitement.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, all right, get let's go there.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
And I think about your principles about the big things
the little things details. In other words, there's the big game,
and then there's the every game, and it's the everything
that you're doing every day. And so there's lots of
times in your book he describes the big attention the
big game, but it's how you do every day and
(38:28):
what that's like. And so I think, in terms of
thinking about him in that position, that's how I think
he'll be in that position, I think that that's how
you are. It's that the glamour that all of that. Okay,
that's secondary. It's back to those basics and that's where
you'll go to.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I know it is that a fair distillation.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Yeah, everybody needs to get their hands dirty and get
ready to go to work. Everything matters. You know, you're
in a lot of close games. It's very competitive. And
what makes the difference, I don't know, you know, is
it this detail? Is it that detail? Is it another detail?
Is it training? Is it execution? Is it communication? You
want to try to raise all of them to the
highest level possible, and you know, put the best team
(39:07):
out on the field that can compete with other great
schools in that conference.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
And that's what he's focusing on.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, put on your hoodie, sweatshirt and get to work.
I think that's what we're talking about here. All right,
one last principle and then we're going to do a
lightning round.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
Okay. Life. Life is an adventurous journey in which it's
going to take you through all this evolution, and I
think it's important to know where you are in that
journey and what reality is like and that discovery process.
And then so I'm at a phase of my life.
He's in a phase of his life, and how we
are now make the most of that phase of the life,
(39:43):
to make it some of our missed journey, so that
when we sit there at the end, we feel good
about our journey. I think that's most important to put
it in perspective and realize it's all a machine with
lots of love and other feelings about that.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
What do you think, pil what's the one thing you
want want people to take away from your book?
Speaker 5 (40:02):
Again? My whole life is improvement. How do you get better?
Learning every day, understanding what it is you can do,
how to do it, and then applying yourself and whatever
aspect of life that is always learning, always trying to
find better ways or find more efficient ways, or find
ways to work better for you. And so learning is
(40:24):
a big part of teaching. You know, I'm a teacher,
but I need to learn to teach better.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
Evolve well, evolve.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
Well, that's the key. I like that.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
All right, we're going to move to rapid fire. So
this is ten questions. We'll you know, go back and forth. Bill,
you answer first, then Ray, and then we'll just do it. So,
first thing that comes to your mind, starting with Bill,
what's one word to describe your deal making.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
Style, value and fair.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
You use two words, yeah, fair, Valu. I like his words.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Okay, okay, seconded, what's more important to you your gut
or data when making decisions?
Speaker 5 (41:15):
Depends on the decision some data, some gut, Tom Brady
data right.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
I think for me it's aligning them. They have to
both line up, if they both line up, But I
would if I had to pick one, it would be
the gut.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Right. Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 5 (41:34):
Bill? Right?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Good answer, right, Bill? Okay, that was going to be
weird if you didn't say that the other way? Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
What's the best piece of advice you've ever received on
deal making or business control?
Speaker 4 (41:49):
You can control who you're with is everything?
Speaker 2 (41:53):
What's the worst advice you've ever been given? Bill?
Speaker 5 (41:57):
The word no or cam h scratch out the tea.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Can be successful in the conventional ways of making a
lot of money and having all the stardom as be
successful in that way, that's a mistakes Instead means what
are you really going for?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
What's your hype song before a big meeting or a
big negotiation or big game or a big game.
Speaker 5 (42:27):
I'll say bounce bon Jovi, Oh, I like that right
my way. There you go.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Not all right. We've discussed both of your books and
you have multiple ray what's your favorite, either your favorite
memoir or your favorite book though principles? There we go,
There we go, and yours.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Joseph Campbell, Heroes of a Thousand Faces.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Okay, if you can only watch one sport for the
rest of your life, which one is it?
Speaker 4 (42:57):
For me? It's global macro? What's going on in the
world right now? And betting on it?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
The most bloomberg answer that's ever been given on this show.
Good lord, all right, what team do you want to
see win a championship more than any?
Speaker 5 (43:14):
Bell? North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
I figured I was hoping no one's going to be
your answer. It's going to be like the Federal Reserve
or something. What do you even say? What team you?
Speaker 5 (43:26):
What team?
Speaker 4 (43:27):
Our team? Okay, our national team? Their new administration.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
So I think for both of you, you both have
great admirers out there, people that want to have a
career like yours. If there's a young person out there
that wants to have a career just like coach Bill Belichick,
what advice would you give them?
Speaker 5 (43:44):
Embrace starting at the bottom.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Right, play the game when I was starting. I started
at twelve. You can play the game when you're twelve,
you know, get in the markets and make your decisions
and then go from there.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
All right, we knew this was going to be really
interesting conversation, and you guys really delivered. Thank you so much,
Ray Dalio, Bill Belichick. It was a pleasure.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Anna Maazarakis, Lizzie Phillip, and
Stacy Wong. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
David E.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Ravella is our managing editor. Our executive producers are Jason Kelly,
Brendan Francis, Noonham, Jordan Oplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Andrew Barden, Kelly Leaferrier,
and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is our head of Podcasts.
Rubob Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from
Jacqueline Kessler. Joshua Devaux is our director of photography. Camera
(44:55):
operation by Holly Fisher, Gabby Dematase and Summa Hussein. Gaffer
is Julia Goweski, and our grip is Megan Miller. Alex
Diacanis is our video editor. Listen to the Deal on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You
can also tune into the Video Companion on Bloomberg Originals
(45:16):
and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back to the Deal. I'm Jason Kelly, I'm Alex Rodriguez.
All right, a very special episode. This is something a
little bit different for us. First of all, it feels
like world's colliding. Ray Dalyio, founder of Bridgewater Associates, best
selling author, and Bill Belichick kind of needs no introduction,
an incredibly successful NFL coach now coaching in the college ranks.
(00:34):
Their buddies sort of an unlikely partnership, kind of like
you and me exactly.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
And here are two guys that are from two different
worlds but have been masters at pattern recognition, and they
also share a lot of the same core values and principles.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, so principles is the key word there. It was
the book that Ray Dalio wrote, runaway bestseller. It inspired
Bill Belichick to write the Art of Winning. They're gonna
dig deep and tell us about the lessons that they learned.
I'm so excited. Let's get after it.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We have two people who you might be a little
bit surprised to see together. This is so cool for us.
A very special conversation. Ray Dalio, Bill Belichick, Welcome to
the deal.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Thank you, thank you. It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All right. So we have you here because you guys
are buddies, like we're buddies, your buddies, Like you know
how I got to ask you to start? Ray? How
does this happen?
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Like?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How does this friendship come together?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
I get a call from them? Whoa Bill Belichick call?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
When is this from there? When is this Bill?
Speaker 5 (01:48):
About? Four years ago? Four years ago I read Ray's
book and Principles Times bestseller, and we're about the same age.
And he's going through his life. I'm relating to the
Times and he's going through his career and Principles every
page is like that's what I'm trying to do. God,
(02:10):
I love the way he articulated that. And it's page
after page after page, and this is amazing. I mean,
I just I fell in love with the book, but
I connected. I felt like to every single principle, not
just one, but ABCD and then the little numbers with
it too. And so I called him and I said, Ray,
I'd love to talk to you. This is an amazing book,
(02:31):
best I've.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Ever read, Principles of Success. Like what was so incredibly
cool is here we are in totally two totally different domains,
and we have the exact same principles for success, which
we believe are universal principles for success. Like out of
his book, I've got a bunch here. If people understand
these principles, whatever they're doing, it is a path to success.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
And Ray talking about these principles, and I know we're
going to get into a few of those. This is
such an porn writing. When did you formulate this idea
and then share with the world which you're doing, you know,
God's work right now, because I can't wait to hear
more about these principles.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Well, two things. When I was making investment decisions, I thought, well,
what are my criteria for making the investment decisions? So
I should write them down, see how they would have
worked in the past, and so on. How do you
keep a team of fifteen hundred people tight? What are
you doing? Why am I making the decisions? So I
would write down principles. Then I started realize, same things
(03:29):
happen over and over again, right, same things happen in
his game and my game, your game, same thing. So
then you start thinking about principle, you know, not just
the thing that you're doing at the time, and when
I started to do that, it became a habit in
my life. And so that was what was incredibly cool
when he called and same principles. These are the gifts
(03:51):
that he and I want to give, right and I'm
sure that they'll resonate with you. But their principles for
success whatever your domain is.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, all right, so that's your meat cute. There's a
meat cute between YouTube that has echoes of that, I
think right out.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah. I mean, I've always admired Bill and everything he does,
the way he comports himself. Obviously, I'm friendly with Tom
and just Tom Brady. Tom Brady, I'm sorry, and he's
just Tom around. You know the fact that one of
the things you have an economics degree, okay, but you're
also a world class communicator and one of the greatest motivators.
And I think you know, pat Riley is another guy
(04:27):
we've spoken about that's an incredible motivator. I'm wondering, and
I'll get back to how we connected, But where did
you learn that the ability to motivate and articulate at
a really high level.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
I think it's one of those I was an only child,
so didn't have any siblings to communicate with. But I
think it was really from being around my dad, around
the Naval Academy, around those Navy football teams, and watching
the way that they interacted, the way they taught, the
way the coaches taught the players, learn the communication and
the interaction between the staff, the players and those teams.
(05:03):
As I was growing up hanging around my dad and
hanging around those great Navy teams of the sixties and
the Roger Staubach, Tom Lynch, Pat Donaldy, Jim Campbell and
those guys that were just they're my heroes. They are
my idols, and I learned a lot from watching them.
I didn't know I was really learned it, but I
think in retrospect that's where a lot of it came from,
(05:23):
because they were great communicators, great teammates, very unselfish, and
there was never any indecision. It was clear cut, here's
the way it is, then we do it, execute it.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So I do want you to tell the story only
because I do think one of the interesting lessons that
we hear on this show, and we're certainly hearing from
you guys, is this idea of if you want to
meet somebody like reach out to them. Now, you know
you got to call from Bill Belichick, you got to
call from Alex Rodriguez. You're picking up the phone and
maybe Jason Kelly, I don't know, but tell us about
the moment where you because you've been very good about
(05:56):
this throughout your career, Alex of being like, yeah, I
want to learn from that. So what inspired you to
call him?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I mean people like Ray and Bill, they're some of
the greats of all time, right, And I just reached
out and they didn't think I will get a text
back because we don't really weally know each other.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So you just hit them with like a hey bro.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I actually text him. I got his I said, hey,
Alex Rodriguez, I'm kind of paraphrasing obviously a big fan
of you. Congrats on your past season. If you're ever
in Florida, maybe we can go to lunch, go to dinner.
And he reached back very nice. He goes, you know,
he's a big baseball fan too, and we have a
lot of major friends, Joe Tory and all the people.
And he said, sure, I'll be down in Florida. I'll
(06:34):
give you a call when i'm down there. So I
went down to Florida. We went a couple times, We've
had a nice dinner, and we've had a really really
nice time.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You know, you have developed these relationships, close relationships with
athletes over your entire career, and you talk about sort
of admiring the guys who played for your dad. But
when an athlete like Alex reaches out, like what are
you thinking and what are you thinking in terms of
like what you can learn? Because that actually goes right
into some of the principles that are here in this book.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Well, one thing about pro sports and competitive sports is
other people in your sport aren't that excited about helping you.
Ah oh, And so you go to another coach in
the NFL, and how much does he really want to
help you? How much you really want to help him.
You can have a good friendship and a relationship with him,
but it's a little holding back. And I think that
(07:23):
a lot of my closer relationships with people like Alex
and Joe and Tito fran Conan the baseball world, because
I would, you know, I came to the Yankees camp
several times and watch you guys work and talk to
Joe and how Joe managed his professional athletes and how
other coaches pat Riley and other coaches and other sports
handled their athletes, and there's Tony LaRussa. There's some common
(07:46):
ground there different sports, but coaches handling pro athletes and
pro teams, and the conversation is a lot easier, yeah,
than it is when you're trying to oh he told
me something about that player. Oh he told me something
about that play. You know, you're kind of holding back there.
And so you know, Alex and I had dinner several
times when we talked and it was a great conversation
and free flowing. It's nothing to hide, right, It's the Israeli.
(08:09):
It was a very open conversation and relationship and I
love that.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
So all I'm hearing, but just so you know what
it's like to go through my ears, is like I
want that guy's principles, Like don't you want Bill Belichick's
yeah principles, Yes, Okay, don't you want that guy's principles.
Every decision that's made is just an execution of those
principles to the formula of success. So you can imagine
the conversation we had.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So on that point, Ray like, what is something from
Bill's book that is a commonality, like, what is something
you saw that he's done in football that you were like, yeah,
I do that as an investor. Or. You know, people
who are listening or watching can apply that to their businesses.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
There's being successful yourself, and then there's running an operation
that's successful. Right, So there are principles for each of
those things in mind are identical. Okay, they're just applied. Now,
can I read you a few? I'll give you Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Give us one that you're most excited about it.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I'm going to give you a few. Okay, Okay, I'm sorry,
I have to give you you So picking somebody, he says,
do you love the game? Do you work hard? Are
you intelligent? If the answers are yes, yes, and yes,
we're good to go. Okay, So now think about that.
(09:28):
That's absolutely right. Okay, what do I want? You have
to love the game? This is true in my game?
I play a game, okay, very competitive game.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Uh, investing, you're talking about investing.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
You know how every minute of every day you get
either punched in the face or rewarded.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Can I take a beat on that one?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I want to come back to another principle, because when
you tell that story. I think about one number. It's
a page in your book that's dedicated to a very
specific person whose name has already come up, and that's Tom.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Brady, right, so page one N I love this because
Tom Brady was the one hundred and ninety ninth pick.
Like so the date, I would probably suggest Bill, each
body should stay away from this guy. But there's somebody
specifically that you saw on Tom that nobody else saw.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
That's it. Yeah, you know. Tom Brady played as a
backup quarterback to Greasy. Greasy went in the NFL. Tom
was a senior. This is University of Michigan. It's University
of Michigan. Tom was a senior, and evidently they had
promised Drew Henson, who was a big recruit as a freshman,
playing time as a freshman. So Tom was the starter,
but Henson played a lot and it didn't look like
(10:32):
he was quite ready to play. Tom would play and
then you know, Henson had some issues and then Tom
would finish the game. And finally in the Orange Bowl
against Alabama, it was Tom's best game, his final game,
and you could really see him play. Talent was, you know,
was okay, but he was very smart. He loved football
and he worked extremely hard, and so he came in
(10:54):
as our fourth string quarterback in two thousand fourth, which
no team carries four quarterback right, and honestly, two the
guys in front of him weren't all that good, so
that's where he was. But he became great, and day
after day after day after day, he just kept improving,
and I signed a player, Damon Hewart. I signed a
(11:16):
player from Miami as a backup quarterback in two thousand
and one because I wasn't sure Tom was going to
be a backup quarterback. Tom beat him out in training
camp and became the number two, and then unfortunately, when
Bledsoe got hurt, Brady got his opportunity and he played well.
We had a good team. He played well. We won
a championship, but we weren't great offensively. We only scored
(11:37):
three touchdowns in three postseason games. And then in two
thousand and two. By two thousand and three, he became
really good for great and had a great, great career.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I want to double up on that because specifically, as
he walked around the hallways in the locker room, in
the weight room, in the video room, was there somebody
specific that you just kept looking at this guy and go,
this guy the real deal. He's not messing around. He
is consistent. What was it about him? But you said, huh,
let me take a double look at Tom.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
His improvement, his work ethic, and his improvement and his leadership.
We had a young team in two thousand and he
kept a lot of the rookies and first year players
out and they would just run plays after practice by themselves,
and he ran it, you know, and you could see
his leadership that hey, we're doing this wrong on the play,
or hey you need to go a motion faster, or
you know, whatever it was. And you could see his
(12:27):
leadership start to take over amongst the rookies, not as
a team leader, but as the rookies. And then once
he became the quarterback, then his leadership really accelerated. He
worked out with the offensive lineman, he hung out with
the offensive lineman. He was just one of the guys.
He wasn't some prima on a quarterback. He connected to everybody,
(12:47):
the guy who picked up the towels in the locker room,
to the owner, to everybody in between. And I was,
you know, fortunate that year I met with him. Unfortunately,
our quarterback coach died that year, and so Charlie and
I kind of, you know, co coached Brady and double
teamed him in terms of, you know, trying to accelerate
his his knowledge and his experience. But you know, he
(13:11):
became a special guy and his work ethic, his competitiveness
is toughness is intelligence, eventually took him past other players
who were more talented. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Interesting, Just to follow up on that, you write something
into your book that I found so interesting, which is
he was And keep me honest here. I believe you
wrote he was hard to coach because he was so prepared. Yes,
(13:46):
and so how do you do it? Like I mean,
I would imagine this is something you run into in
your business.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
It's identical. Now, if you're listening to him the way
I'm used to listening, he was describing Tom Brady. Okay,
he's also describing the recipe. He was coachable, he was humble. Okay,
Now you can write these things down. That's the formula.
Once you start to think about the I look for
(14:12):
the same things, right. Okay, So now if you're thinking
how do I run a team, and you write them
down in the general case, not just the particular, there's
Tom Brady. That's the story of him. But if you say,
what's a winner, how do you pick a winner? It's
the same.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Qualities, right, And so in the case of Tom Brady, Bill,
he's harder to coach. So how do you do it?
Because again, I'm thinking about Rai's business, I'm thinking about
Alex's business, I'm thinking about my business. You have these
superstars who like show up, they work hard, they're ready
to go. So how what's the secret to managing them?
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Well, I always felt like I was really well prepared
when I went and talked to Tom and I tried
to teach him from a coaching standpoint what he needed
to know, which was what the defensive coordinator was thinking
on the other side of the field. That was the
big thing. Wow, And we got into a situation where,
you know, I went in there and I said, you know, Tom,
here's what they're playing. And it was a coverage that
(15:07):
they could have made an adjustment to. And I said,
I've never made seen him make that cover adjustment. I
don't think they have that in their system. And Tom
kind of let me down easy. He said, well, I
don't know. I saw something last year against Green Bay.
I don't know if that's what they were doing or not. Well,
that's exactly what they were doing. Wow. He just didn't
embarrass me.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
I went back and watching like, Okay, he was better
prepared for that meeting than I was. I'm not going
to let that happen again. Right, And so now I'm
not only going through the games this year, I'm going
back through the games last year too. He forced me
to be better prepared and be a better coach because
he was so well prepared, and it was always like
a little competition like, hey, have you see that player?
Did you see that play? Remember that played from three
years ago? And so But you know, I love that
(15:50):
because Tom did it with grace. He could have been
he could have just said, hey, coach, once you go
look at this game, right, But he didn't. But that's
kind of the way he and because he was so
well prepared. Yeah, forced me to be And when I
say he was hard to coach, I mean that truly
is a compliment, right. Right.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So I have a question for Rank. Yeah go, so Ray,
going on your principles, I'm really interested that you build
Bridgewater with the experience you have today. How do you
think about building a work structure and an organization, and
how do you apply those principles? You meet so many
great people, so many talented men and women. How do
you go about picking your top people? Talking about your principles?
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I think he described it so well. It's the same
you're building a machine. You have to look, Okay, what
is your machine? I don't know where exactly here it is,
but basically he describes it very well. Okay, what is
a team like? What are the positions they play? What
are the characteristics of the qualities that are necessary to
play that position? Well? How does that person then have
(16:47):
to interact with you? They've got to understand what you
want in terms of that job. How do they react
to pain? How do they react to failure? I have
a principle pain plus reflection equals progress. Right in other words, so,
how do you feel about when you're knocked back? What
do you do with that? Do you hide it? Are
you embarrassed about your mistakes? Or do you go at it?
(17:09):
Do you find it? So it's these elements. So you
have to build a machine, and the machine is what
that organization is? What are your goals? You'd have to
know where your goals are, how do you build the machine?
What is the attribute for each one of those? How
do I do the testing? I do testing of people.
He does testing of people. We do testing. How do
they fit into that He's looking for attributes, I'm looking
(17:32):
for attributes. What is that attribute necessary for that job?
How do they work together? And how do you orchestrate it?
It's the same. All of this can be even systemized
and computerized. These principles and the ways you do it.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So if I'm talking about testing, let's just role play
right now, because I want to see how you apply
those principles. If you're trying to hire a great managing
director or a CIO for Bridgewater back in the day,
and you love him, I mean, he's a ten out
of ten, He's a Tom Brady for you, but he
wants ten dollars and you think he should be meaning
six dollars. How do you fill that gap? Do you
(18:06):
just quit or do you just keep pursuing.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
We talk about goals and values and what are you after? Okay,
what matters to me? To me, like, I have certain
values in the culture. You have to have a culture.
Mine is meaningful work and meaningful relationships. Through radical truthfulness
and radical transparency. Does it mean something to be on
this particular team? And also the other side of it?
(18:30):
Am I fair with you? I believe that I have
to be the far side of fair. I've got to
be generous to you. How are we with each other?
And what is our ultimate goal? These are the things
that we have to agree on.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And so Bill Ray said something a minute or so
ago that is very interesting and really jumped out at
me as I was reading your book. And because this
is a family show and a family network, I'm going
to use the sanitized version, which is four important words.
I messed that up. It's not what are you saying?
And I admire you your transparency and your directness in this,
(19:03):
but admitting mistakes and that's something we all make them.
Tell us how you got to that, how you learned
about that, and how to best deal with mistakes that
you made?
Speaker 5 (19:14):
Well. I think the number one area for me, Jason
is when time is of the essence, and that's in
a game. You come to the sideline, something bad happened
out on the field. We gotta fix it. What's wrong?
And the quickest way to fix it is if I
(19:34):
can say I messed that up. It's my fault. Everybody else.
Keep doing what you're doing. I'll make the adjustment that
it all takes care of it.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
But if we all sit there and it's like, well,
should I do this? Should I have done that? Should
he have done something else? Well, sometimes you have to
figure that out. Okay, you've play a little bit wider,
you pay a little bit tighter, you get back up
a little bit. Here's how we're going to handle that.
But sometimes it's as simple as just screw it up. Yeah,
it's my fault. Keep doing what you're doing. We're fine.
(20:04):
I'll make the adjustment. It won't happen again.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Is there a time that really sticks out in your mind?
When that happened?
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Multiples and I've done it. It was a bad call.
I called the wrong defense against the wrong personnel group. Yeah,
it was a bad call. I'll never do that again.
That's my fault. Forget that play. Next play. Yeah, okay, hey,
it was my fault. I should have been in this gap.
I was too wide. I got it. Okay, great, we
don't talk to everybody else. Keep doing what they're doing.
(20:31):
But in football, you give them a twenty yard run,
should I have done this? Should I have done that?
Should I've done this? Should I? You have four or
five guys thinking like, hey, was it me? It was?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
No, here's what it was. Right, Just takes care of it. Okay,
we're done.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Because one of the things you point out in the
book is that by doing that as a leader, you
essentially give people who work for you permission to do
the same thing and also set the expectation that they
will also own their mistakes. And do you remember it
when it's just like.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
You said, we all make them. Yeah, we all make them.
So own them, correct them, and put it behind us.
And it's every day we make them every day.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Multiple the attitude about mistakes, the attitude about failures, the
attitude about weaknesses, that's everything. I mean, that's a huge
part of it. In any business, you will be into it.
It's the attitude. And you could see the attitude. So
when it's clear and you reinforce that, okay, and so
you create a culture.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And one of the two things that you guys share,
one of the things that I really admires the radical
transparency and honesty and just getting to the point I
feel like so many people bs around and you never
get anywhere. You're like dancing around and it's like that
makes it awkward. Where did you get that and why
did you think that was so important to build up Bridgewater? Well,
as one of your principles.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I mean, it's exactly the same. He's playing a game.
I'm playing a game. There's the in the moment, and
then there's going into it on the next day. Whenever day,
you sit back and you watch the films and you
learn from it, right, So you know that fundamentally you've
got to do this right. And so for me, it's
always reflection on mistakes and learning personal mistakes, systematic mistakes.
(22:12):
You can't avoid it. If you want to be a winner, well,
it'll sort you out right. You don't do these things,
you're gone, right.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
So how would you use those principles? I'm going to
ask you, not for some advice, Ray, as a new
owner of an NBA team and WNBA team, how would
you apply your principles to build out a great team?
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Okay, know what your goals are, what your trade offs are,
built the goals. Everything is a five step process. Know
what your goals are. On the way to your goals,
you're going to encounter your problems, your obstacles. Okay, identify
your obstacles. You have to identify them and not tolerate them.
Number three is diagnose them to the root cause. The
(22:50):
root cause is that root cause a weakness of you,
a weakness of them, something. What is the root cause.
Once you have that root cause, you have to change
that thing to make good. Number four is then you
have to design to make a change. You have to
do something. It's the person, is it, the behavior you're
misgene working? And then once you make the design, you've
(23:12):
got to do it. You've got to follow through in
doing it. And in my opinion, just life is these
five steps over and over. What is my goal? You
get it clear? Okay, on the way there, I'm going
to have my problems and obstacles, diagnose them their root cause,
get the right players and anyway, that's it.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Bill, You've played for multiple owners. No needs to mention names.
That's not important. What is important is from your experience
and your lens. What makes a good owner, good management
team to support what you do on the field.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Well, again, I think it starts with what Rajas said
is what are your goals? What are your goals? Is
it the bottom line? Is it financial? Is it championships?
You know, and you've been a player, and I'm sure
that you felt like as a player, you wanted a
path to a championship, and when something got in the
way of that path, you wanted it removed whatever it
(24:02):
happened to be, whether it's travel or personnel or the
way something was handled that it affected your performance as
a player. And I would say those two don't necessarily align,
you know, financial success and on the field success, that
there could be a trade off there that I think
as an owner you have to make a decision as
(24:23):
to you know what you probably want the best of both,
but ultimately which one is the driving force? And that's
probably like that in a lot of businesses. You know,
what are your goals and if goals are you know,
truly winning. You know as a player that you want
to remove every obstacle that could be in the way
of a manager or a player of achieving his winning goals. Financially,
(24:45):
that could be expensive.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So Ray, it's interesting, you know, over the years of
you know, covering Wall Street and investing for Bloomberg, I
got to watch you build this firm and part of
one of the underlying principles I believe is this notion
of innovation and always of changing and evolving and both
of you and we'll get to coach in the second.
Have you know, sort of pushed into new markets? How
(25:08):
do you think about that? How do you think about innovation?
What's your what are the principles underlying how you go
on and build into something new?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I don't know if it's much thinking about it as
much as feeling it. You know, you feel the excitement,
you feel the poll one of the principles that he's
praised so well. And I also is being comfortable being
uncomfortable okay? Or I might say also the reverse, I'm
sometimes uncomfortable if I'm coomfortable okay, okay? Because we were
(25:40):
talking about this, what the feeling is like like that.
Partially it's the striving for something, you know, beyond yourself,
the growth, the excitement of that feeling, and then partially
it's also the knowing that you, okay, what is it
that can make you better? Or where should I worry about? Now?
I got another prince. If you worry, you don't need
(26:02):
to worry. And if you don't worry, you need to worry. Okay,
because if you worry, then you'll take care of what
you're worrying about. And if you don't worry, it's going
to hit you probably. Yeah, So there's a little bit
of this in both of us as we start to
think about striving for things getting better, because it's not
where you are, it's the action. It's the evolution that
(26:24):
gets you excited to be better and better. Why is
he doing what he's doing? Why am I doing what
I'm doing? Still?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
So, I mean, let's talk about a major decision bill
that you make. You're arguably, maybe inarguably the best NFL
coach of all time that widely considered that and you
know could have gone off and done a lot of
things in the same way that you know Alex could
have gone off and done a lot of things when
he retired from baseball. Instead, you're like, you know what,
(27:04):
I'm going to go into one of the most challenging
sports environments in probably history, which is college sports and
specifically college football today, and that's what you're doing. You're
at UNC. How do you make that decision? Were you
were you thinking that? You know, maybe you were too
comfortable and you wanted to be uncomfortable, Like, how does
(27:26):
that decision happen?
Speaker 5 (27:27):
I've always wanted to be in college football. I probably
grew up in it at the Naval Academy, and I
tried to go into college football after college, but that
didn't really work out. So I ended up with the
Baltimore Colts and coach marcharbro to there and then that
path kind of led me through the NFL and that's
worked out all right. But it was an opportunity to
go to, you know, to a great school, great institution
(27:49):
with a great brand, yeah that you know hasn't achieved
what they want to achieve on the football field, and
so there's a lot of newness, a lot of learning.
But that's qite exciting for me and I have embraced it.
I don't know. Sometimes I feel like on the golf course,
some more comfortable in the trap than I am in
the middle of the fairway because it's usually going to
go in the trap. Yeah, and once I'm there, you know,
(28:10):
you've already got a bogie, so just you know, get
down in three from the trap. But yes, it's the
challenge and the newness and learning and finding out new
things and figuring out how you can apply principles in
a different environment. It's really exciting to me and I
enjoy the process.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, I mean, and it's so interesting too, because I
don't know if there's ever been a coaching change, you know,
especially from pro to college that has actually increased the
attention on somebody in the way that it has with you.
I mean, it reminds me a little bit. I mean,
you come in here like it's almost like moving from
the the Rangers to the Yankees in terms of the
(28:47):
of the scrutiny. I mean, don't you think.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah, that was a real awakening for me because, Coach,
the thing we've talked about this, we had like three
or four beat writers in Texas, probably two in Seattle,
and then you get to New York and there's forty
or fifty people literally watching your every move and what
you're hitting and what page. It was a lot of attention. So, coach,
how do you deal with that? How do you deal
with the attention? How do you do that in your
world over your career?
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Yeah, control what you can control, the noise, the expectations,
you know, all the things that are going on on
the periphery. Just focus on your job and control what
you can control. And the biggest thing for me really
and probably the number one principle in my life, is
just improvement. And how do you improve? You know, you
do your job, you pay attention to the details that
(29:32):
will help you do your job, You work hard, and
then ultimately put the team first and the team successful.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Unto Cincinnati, yes, that's just the greatest signs Just to Cincinnati.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
And keep improving.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Wait, remind us of that line. What's unto Cincinnati?
Speaker 3 (29:46):
What I remember is, you know, some reporter was asking
them some silly questions over and over again or something, and.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
Well, we had just gotten we had just gotten slaughtered
in Kansas City on Monday night. And you know, when
your team plays bad, it's not the pl I mean,
the players might have played bad too, but it's obviously
bad coaching, right, I mean, your team goes out there
and gets beat by four touchdowns. It's not all the players.
There's some bad coaching, So take accountability for that. You know,
you're the one responsible for it. So we got murdered
(30:14):
out there. And is this the end of the Patriots?
This is the end of Tom Brady? Is this the
end of Belichick's This is the end of the Patriots
and we played Cincinnati next week and you know what,
you can't say the game was over. It was in
the books, there's nothing wen about it. And we're just
gonna go on and get ready for Cincinnati, and we
bounce back beat them and ended up betting the Super
Bowl that year. But a lot of people counted us
(30:34):
out after that crushing loss. In kan't say it was
absolutely the dominant team that night, both coaching, playing, and
everything else. Yeah, but we controlled, we controlled, We moved
on to the next challenge, and we actually got better
over the course of the year and we're able to
beat Seattle in the Super Bowl, which was a you know,
a big win and a really big turning points for
(30:55):
the season because we still played good football several years
after that too.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
But Jason, the reason why that meant so much to me,
and Ray I'm going to bring you in on this,
is because it taught me a lesson coaches. There. Maybe
it was a Tuesday morning or Tuesday after practice.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
He's got his.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Hoodie, you know, his gray hoodie, and you know, looking
all cool, and the guy asked two or three different
questions the same question different ways, and he said it
two or three times he goes like I said, we're
onto Cincinnati. We're onto Cincinnati. And what that means to
me is we're on to the next bat, We're on
to the next trade, We're on to the next interview.
And in life and business and everything, will your kids.
You got to move on. And what I've learned is
(31:30):
traders hitters. They can't adjust and they can't move on.
They're still on the Kansas City game. Right, that's over.
We got to move forward. So I'm sure that's maybe
one of you.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
It's fundamental, right, Okay, he wants to improve, he wants
to learn. Okay, that's passive. And then the past is past.
What you get is lessons. There's only the future.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Can't change the past, no, but.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
There's the future. So it's okay. What you do is
you think about those mistakes, mistakes, and now your approach
to the mistake. We're saying it again. You approach the mistakes,
and how do I then learn from those mistakes that
people who learn from those mistakes. You know, pain plus
reflection equals progress. If you learn from those mistakes every time,
then you go on, then you'll be better. It's a journey.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
I think the big thing for me has always been
don't blame anybody and don't make excuses, figure out what
went wrong, correct it, and move on.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, and so you know, when you think about just
going back to your new job, Bill, you get into this,
you know, sort of exciting thing. Maybe some days it
does feel like you're in the trap, but there is
massive upside opportunity in college sports right now.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I think it's fair to say we've never been in
a moment like this where the business of college football
and college sports are so dramatically in flux. And so,
what's your playbook going into a situation like this when
you're bringing all of this professional experien and you have
a deep knowledge of the college game, obviously going back
to when you were a kid. What are the things
(33:05):
that are on your mind that you can contribute to
the success of UNC. But also, let's be honest, people
are going to be looking to you as a model
for what college football looks like going forward.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
Right Well, I'd say the coaching is the coaching, Football
is football. The hash marks are different, there's some modifications,
but that is what it is. I think the big
thing is, we'll see what the rules are in college
football once the House Settlement is in place, and I'm
sure there'll be some modifications in that as we go forward,
as different things happen and get modified in one way
or another. We'll see what all that is. But we'll
(33:38):
have to adapt. We'll have to adjust. That's part of life.
That's part of your.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Job, right, And just as a reminder that the House
Settlement for those listening who haven't followed it is like
closely as all of us have, is essentially a settlement
between the NCAA and the US House of Representatives that's
going to give back pay essentially to college athletes and
then set a cap effectively going forward for how much
much colleges can pay their athletes. Is that a fair overview?
Speaker 5 (34:03):
Yes, yes, it's pay, it's roster size, it's a whole
host of things. How the accounting is going to work,
what the disciplinary process will be, and what the discipline
will be for violations, and so forth and so on. Really,
I'm sure it'll be very comprehensive, and I'm sure it
will have multiple revisions, right, you know, over the next
several months or a couple of years as things start
(34:25):
to settle.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, Coach we were talking about. You have an economics
degree from college, so you're really good with numbers. You
were really really clever and smart on how you dealt
with salary cap. That was always kind of a dance.
You got a lot of players to take some less
money because they wanted to be part of your team
and your culture to win championships. Now you fast forward
to college, how is your pitch different to Tom Brady
(34:46):
or to a seventeen year old quarterback you're trying to
recruit to go to North Carolina.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
Well, again, my job is the same as has always been,
is to try to help the player become the best
player that he can be, and he of our team
be as successful as they can be on the field
and off the field. So those are really the goals,
and I'll do my best to help every player achieve
his goals. And I believe in our process, in our program,
and if they truly want to be great and they
(35:10):
were willing to come in and put in the work,
then I'm confident that we'll get them to a position
where they'll be ready for the next level or they'll
reach their full potential.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
You imagine if you had a son and it gets
a back for coach, but the phone rings and it's
like can I talk to Well, It's like, what, okay,
I'm going to North Carolina? Yeah, exactly, coach your day.
How is it different being the head coach of the
Patriots versus being the head coach of North Carolina Football?
Speaker 5 (35:34):
Pretty similar? There are a lot of similarities. I would
say one of the biggest differences in college football from
the NFL is the recruiting aspect of it. Next year
will be our twenty sixth recruiting class, but we're also
recruiting twenty seven players and even some twenty eight players.
We just finished a portal, and the volume of players
(35:57):
is a lot processes kind of the same. It's just
high school instead of college, but the volume is is
significantly bigger.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, that's an industrate. I hadn't really thought about that.
The ecosystem is a little bit different in terms of
like who's coming in around these but I mean, like,
I mean, I guess it's evolved, even always evolving.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
You know.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
There's also a lot more movement. Yeah, kids are transferring
in high school to different high schools, and obviously with
the portal, the transfers in college football are you know,
those numbers are escalating, you know, exponentially, and so just
trying to keep track of everybody, how many years they
have left, what their eligibility is, processing through the academics
and all that, just a volume that goes with it.
(36:36):
Is different than the NFL, where you, okay, here's the
draft class. They're all draft eligible. Draft them, which when
you get your turn and then you know, play them.
It's a little more straightforward. They're definitely more moving parts. Well.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Also in general in the NFL, you're dealing with contracts,
the players under contract, right I mean like that alone.
I mean, you have effective free agency in college.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
Right now now, at least for the moment, without contract,
without contract. So the contract issue is one that needs
to be at some point addressed, you know in the
college landscape it will be, but right now it's in flux.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
What's been the biggest surprise for you, coach, Like getting
to getting to UNC and sort of the college level.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
I'd say, no, no, real great surprises. It's you know,
I've been aware of college football based on our recruiting
process and scouting process, but some of the working for
a public company or a public university is a little
bit different than working for a private team. I'd say
that's that's one difference. And you know, the age of
the kids is a little bit different, but in the
end they have less bad habits, and so I think
(37:40):
you're able to, you know, build more good habits. But
they're not as experienced as the players we get at
the National Football League level. So but again, it's just adjusting,
and it's there's a level of newness and a little
level of learning that I need to acquire and I'm
in the process of doing that.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
It's exciting, and what's interesting about them is his principles
for dealing with that excitement.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, all right, get let's go there.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
And I think about your principles about the big things
the little things details. In other words, there's the big game,
and then there's the every game, and it's the everything
that you're doing every day. And so there's lots of
times in your book he describes the big attention the
big game, but it's how you do every day and
(38:28):
what that's like. And so I think, in terms of
thinking about him in that position, that's how I think
he'll be in that position, I think that that's how
you are. It's that the glamour that all of that. Okay,
that's secondary. It's back to those basics and that's where
you'll go to.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I know it is that a fair distillation.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Yeah, everybody needs to get their hands dirty and get
ready to go to work. Everything matters. You know, you're
in a lot of close games. It's very competitive. And
what makes the difference, I don't know, you know, is
it this detail? Is it that detail? Is it another detail?
Is it training? Is it execution? Is it communication? You
want to try to raise all of them to the
highest level possible, and you know, put the best team
(39:07):
out on the field that can compete with other great
schools in that conference.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
And that's what he's focusing on.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, put on your hoodie, sweatshirt and get to work.
I think that's what we're talking about here. All right,
one last principle and then we're going to do a
lightning round.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
Okay. Life. Life is an adventurous journey in which it's
going to take you through all this evolution, and I
think it's important to know where you are in that
journey and what reality is like and that discovery process.
And then so I'm at a phase of my life.
He's in a phase of his life, and how we
are now make the most of that phase of the life,
(39:43):
to make it some of our missed journey, so that
when we sit there at the end, we feel good
about our journey. I think that's most important to put
it in perspective and realize it's all a machine with
lots of love and other feelings about that.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
What do you think, pil what's the one thing you
want want people to take away from your book?
Speaker 5 (40:02):
Again? My whole life is improvement. How do you get better?
Learning every day, understanding what it is you can do,
how to do it, and then applying yourself and whatever
aspect of life that is always learning, always trying to
find better ways or find more efficient ways, or find
ways to work better for you. And so learning is
(40:24):
a big part of teaching. You know, I'm a teacher,
but I need to learn to teach better.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
Evolve well, evolve.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
Well, that's the key. I like that.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
All right, we're going to move to rapid fire. So
this is ten questions. We'll you know, go back and forth. Bill,
you answer first, then Ray, and then we'll just do it. So,
first thing that comes to your mind, starting with Bill,
what's one word to describe your deal making.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
Style, value and fair.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
You use two words, yeah, fair, Valu. I like his words.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Okay, okay, seconded, what's more important to you your gut
or data when making decisions?
Speaker 5 (41:15):
Depends on the decision some data, some gut, Tom Brady
data right.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
I think for me it's aligning them. They have to
both line up, if they both line up, But I
would if I had to pick one, it would be
the gut.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Right. Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 5 (41:34):
Bill? Right?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Good answer, right, Bill? Okay, that was going to be
weird if you didn't say that the other way? Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
What's the best piece of advice you've ever received on
deal making or business control?
Speaker 4 (41:49):
You can control who you're with is everything?
Speaker 2 (41:53):
What's the worst advice you've ever been given? Bill?
Speaker 5 (41:57):
The word no or cam h scratch out the tea.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Can be successful in the conventional ways of making a
lot of money and having all the stardom as be
successful in that way, that's a mistakes Instead means what
are you really going for?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
What's your hype song before a big meeting or a
big negotiation or big game or a big game.
Speaker 5 (42:27):
I'll say bounce bon Jovi, Oh, I like that right
my way. There you go.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Not all right. We've discussed both of your books and
you have multiple ray what's your favorite, either your favorite
memoir or your favorite book though principles? There we go,
There we go, and yours.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Joseph Campbell, Heroes of a Thousand Faces.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Okay, if you can only watch one sport for the
rest of your life, which one is it?
Speaker 4 (42:57):
For me? It's global macro? What's going on in the
world right now? And betting on it?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
The most bloomberg answer that's ever been given on this show.
Good lord, all right, what team do you want to
see win a championship more than any?
Speaker 5 (43:14):
Bell? North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
I figured I was hoping no one's going to be
your answer. It's going to be like the Federal Reserve
or something. What do you even say? What team you?
Speaker 5 (43:26):
What team?
Speaker 4 (43:27):
Our team? Okay, our national team? Their new administration.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
So I think for both of you, you both have
great admirers out there, people that want to have a
career like yours. If there's a young person out there
that wants to have a career just like coach Bill Belichick,
what advice would you give them?
Speaker 5 (43:44):
Embrace starting at the bottom.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Right, play the game when I was starting. I started
at twelve. You can play the game when you're twelve,
you know, get in the markets and make your decisions
and then go from there.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
All right, we knew this was going to be really
interesting conversation, and you guys really delivered. Thank you so much,
Ray Dalio, Bill Belichick. It was a pleasure.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Anna Maazarakis, Lizzie Phillip, and
Stacy Wong. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
David E.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Ravella is our managing editor. Our executive producers are Jason Kelly,
Brendan Francis, Noonham, Jordan Oplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Andrew Barden, Kelly Leaferrier,
and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is our head of Podcasts.
Rubob Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from
Jacqueline Kessler. Joshua Devaux is our director of photography. Camera
(44:55):
operation by Holly Fisher, Gabby Dematase and Summa Hussein. Gaffer
is Julia Goweski, and our grip is Megan Miller. Alex
Diacanis is our video editor. Listen to the Deal on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You
can also tune into the Video Companion on Bloomberg Originals
(45:16):
and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.
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