October 16, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly talk with Erika Ayers Badan, the former chief executive of Barstool Sports and current CEO of Food52, about what she’s learned from leading two “turnaround” companies. Badan tells the hosts how she led a company often laden with controversy, why she’s happy to grow talent that leaves and why she thinks it’s important to fail.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome back to the Deal.
On today's episode, Erica Ayers Badon, she's now the CEO
of Food fifty two. You knew her in her previous
job as CEO of Barstool Sports.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I did. And she's a master at turner around companies.
I cannot wait to hear it. But she's a great leader,
great communicator, and she's onto new things.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Yeah, she has got massive ambitions. She's also deep into
the world of lacrosse. She played in college and now
she's on the board of the premier lacrosse League with
our buddy Paul Rabel, So lots to talk to her
about coming up. Erica ayers Badon, All right, my man,
(00:47):
Erica ayers Badan is here with us. You guys are
all buddies, So I gotta turn this over to you.
You gotta lead this one.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is strange, So thank you, Jason So Erica, we're
so excited to have you. Obviously we work together a
little bit with barstool'ew you first hand how wonderful you
led with the conviction and really how much success they
had under your leadership, and the growth was incredible. Now
you're Food fifty two. It feels like a big pivot.
What is the through line for you?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It's a great question, So thank you for having me.
I sold Barstool twice in twenty twenty three, so we
sold it to Penn National and then we bought it
back for Dave Portner I for a.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Dollar and oh, we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
That come September twenty twenty three. I was like, there's
I've done everything I came to do here, like I
have any I couldn't have dreamed that we would have
had two exits in a year, that the company would
be back with Dave. I really felt good about that
because I felt like Dave was always the right steward
(01:49):
for Barstool, and I gave what I could give and
the gift of the machine while I was there, and
I felt that the greatest offense to what I had
done for the past almost a decade would be to
stay after I was creating, and I just felt like
it was offensive to everything I sacrificed to build it
that I wanted to go find a new adventure and
(02:12):
a place where I could start and try to build
something again. And so that was really the pivot. I
also felt like I had marketed to eighteen to twenty
four year old men for you know, the better part
of a decade. And I was like, I know how
to do this. I was finding that I wasn't I
wasn't crazy stimulated by it. And I was writing a
(02:33):
book at the time, and the last section of the
book is do you stay or do you go? And
the point where you go is when things stop scaring you.
And I felt that moving into the women's space and
moving into home and lifestyle and manufacturing was sufficiently scary.
And so I made the pivot.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And I've never asked you this, how do you get
an opportunity like borsch do? There was a headhunter call
and say, Erica, I have a wild idea. How does
that work?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So it was actually funny. So when it was very rare,
and it was by accident. So I was in Los
Angeles and I worked in music. I had a startup
in the music space trying to build really fan platforms
around music artists, and we were raising money and we
went to go see the Charning group and I walked
into the meeting and the Charning group were like, oh, hey,
(03:18):
we just put money to this company. You've never heard of.
And I was like, well, what's the company and they said, oh,
it's Barstool Sports. And I pulled up my phone and
I was like, I lived in Boston when Dave started Barstool.
I used to get you know, I'd be hungover on
the tee and I would read the paper and I
have the app, and I'm like, here's everything that's right
with it, here's everything that's wrong with it. And my
(03:39):
business partner was pissed because as he was like, we
should be focusing on raising money for us. But I
really couldn't shake that conversation. I felt very jealous because
I knew that they would probably find a white guy
with an MBA and a vest and a button down shirt,
and that was not me. And I pursued that opportunity.
(04:00):
I tried to find anyone I could to get connected
to Dave. I finally got connected to Dave probably three
months later. We met in a coffee shop in the
West Village and I pretty much was working for Barstools
since that moment, but it didn't come. It was actually
very interesting because they had interviewed I think probably seventy
ish guys, seventy seventy five guys or men for the job,
(04:22):
and you could tell the recruiter was irritated by the
time I showed up because the recruiter had done his part.
You know, it was showing candidates, showing candidates.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Like I've delivered all these bros like.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And this chick walks in and so that's that's how
I got it.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Wow, did you have any idea what you were in for?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
No, No, you.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Said something interesting a minute ago that I love, which
is the gift of the machine. Was that what was
in your mind that that's what it needed because it
was what it was less than five million dollars.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Oh, it was, it was less than five million dollars.
It was probably fourteen people. They were based in Boston,
like it was. You know, when I remember my first
summer there, there was no office. I worked in hotel
lobbies and coffee shops while we while Dave and I
built the office, opened the office, we weren't sure who
was on payroll.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So, speaking of that, you go from under fifteen people employees,
you go from the sub five million revenue. You probably
don't even have a P and L. Really, Yeah, by
the time you leave, you go from that to about
two hundred and fifty million out of the top line revenue.
What were some of those drivers, the main drivers?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think the you know, the quote
unquote machine was what we were really good at is
one is finding new platforms at the time of emergence,
So podcasting was podcasting was just starting to emerge around
twenty sixteen, twenty fifteen, fourteen to sixteen, and most of
the big broadcasters weren't in it deeply because there was
(05:55):
no money there, and we had no money and the
cost of production for podcast was very low, and so
it was there was a low barrier of entry for
us to make a lot of podcasts. So we started
to make a lot of podcasts, and then you know,
a year later, Facebook Live and Twitter bought Periscope and
it was live streaming on the internet. We got into that,
(06:17):
and so the machine quote unquote, the machine is really
how do you find emergent platforms, how do you find
programming that was authentic. I really felt that there's something
with young men in particular that didn't want to be preached,
preached at or told what you know, the whole notion
of sports Center was dying, where you didn't. You weren't
(06:39):
going to wait until eleven o'clock at night to see
what happened today. You wanted the score and you wanted
the opinion in the same conversation, in the same context.
And what we built was the ability to clip that post,
that promote that, circulate it, and monetize it well.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And you also discovered this notion of of creators at
the core, right I mean, and I mean Portnoy, and
we'll talk a bit about him, I'm sure you know,
at the at the center of that. But you also
set about finding people, not just you found people and
married them to platforms.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Is that a yes, we found people and Dave is
really gifted at this is the Dave Gaz like the
core barstool guys have very good eye for talent. And
we were at a point where, you know, it's kind
of pre the capital eye influencer world that we live
in now. But the alchemy of weirdos from you know,
(07:34):
somebody's railing about New Jersey Transit and next thing you know,
you have Frank the Tank and you're putting Frank the
Tank next to an Alex Rodriguez or Dion Sanders and
it's it's just weird.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And so that was very capital confirmed. Yes, yes, yes,
So we.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Did a good job of discovering talent, and then we
did a good job of setting a social norm inside
the company of a high degree productivity and a high
volume of output. And we had a lot of at bats.
So because we had so many at bats, it was
easier for us to get a hit.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So you had some at baths. I mean, what was
your impression.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I just thought, first of all, I thought Erica was
a great leader. You always come up with wild ideas
with her, and she never said no, that's not going
to work. She always tried to figure out, like, Okay,
how do we think outside the box, how do we
get to a Yes, let me think on that for
a couple of days and she'll come back to you
with really productive feedback. But I mean, I was working
with Dan, who's very, very talented, the cat right, and
he had an enormous audience. The brand is so big, Jason,
(08:33):
that when I would go to colleges to give talks
or whatever, or even walking here in the cities of
New York, the people would.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Be like barstool, barstoo.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I was like holy smokes, Like not the Yankees' nothing.
It was Barstool, So I knew the power then when
I joined them.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And so Eric, I want to go back to the
pen deal that you mentioned, because that sort of sits
at the center in terms of the deal making that
you guys did, So how does that all go down?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So when I joined Barstool, the investors felt that we
should be able to do I want to say, twenty
five million dollars in revenue in four or five years.
I think it was five years. We ended up doing
twenty five million dollars revenue in like two and a
half years. So we it just we took off very
(09:18):
very fast.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And that's mostly adds.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Ads in commerce, so in T shirts, right, merchandise. But
we then built a subscription business, we build a pay
per view business. We were able to spin up businesses
in a way that was very fast because we were
we were I would say reckless but also highly entrepreneurial.
But long story short, we knew that there were two outcomes.
(09:42):
One was that a media company would buy Barstool Sports.
And then when PASSPO was repealed and gaming and gambling
looked like it would scale in the US, that became
very obvious that that was going to be the path.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And so this was the Supreme Court decision that basically
allowed for a life for.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
States to regulate sports betting on a market by market basis,
and prior to that it was illegal across the country.
I had always built the business to have optionality for
either path. And it's kind of interesting, like, you know,
Dave was on Fox in September and then the Good
Morning Barstools show launched, like that was actually probably the
(10:23):
right outcome for Barstool Sports is to find a media
home because the company has intrinsic media DNA. PEN came along.
Pen needed a brand. They had a large regional casino footprint,
They had infrastructure, and they had a lot of licenses.
They had all the state licenses or most of the
(10:44):
state licenses at the time, and so in that regard,
we were a really really good match versus a DraftKings
or a fan Duel or an MGM. Those were companies
we had worked for before. Those were companies we had
supplied a lot of audience to. And the way I
built to that, or we built to that is, you know,
in year one we had five gambling partners and in
(11:08):
year two we had two gambling partners, and in year
three we had one. So I tried to create more
and more competition and a king making of who our
partner was. And then by the time Pen came along,
we had a very very good case study and a
very high volume of proof points of our ability to
(11:28):
transact and our ability to drive customers for someone else.
I think a lot of times and acquisitions, what the
acquireye forgets about is that the acquirer wants customers, and
you are a conduit to either acquiring, keeping or up
selling those customers. And we were very cognizant of that.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It seemed Ben Jason and I were talking offline like
a dream, and I remember at the time, what a
brilliant idea. You have the regional footprint with Vegas, and
you have the bricks and mortar, and you guys have
with the brand, brand, the gambling and also Pen wasn't cool.
You guys made it cool, animated relevant. When you trade
on something like that, educate us a little bit. Is
it more top line? Is it a multiple of ibadah
(12:10):
or just you know, how does that work?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So we were a multiple of ebada So we were
lucky in that we had good EBITDA in the business.
Most of it we reinvested for growth. We were also
looked at on a multiple because we had a very
healthy and growing AD business and we were growing thousands
of percents or hundreds of percents on an annual basis,
really on every dimension. So if it was ad revenue,
(12:35):
if it was audience growth, if it's downloads on podcasts,
we were trading. We were trading up and exponentially up
year over year. Now there was a discount because the
brand was controversial and there was like, well what about
what about barstool? What about what about So there was
a discount to that and the partnership. You know that
(12:56):
in good ways and bad ways. You know, we never
and I never set foot in a Pen casino before
we did the partnership, and I think we didn't know
in some ways what we didn't know going into it.
I think we brought a tremendous amount of value to Pen.
You saw it in the stock price pop, you saw
it in the audience, you saw it in the establishment
(13:19):
of the brand. Ultimately wasn't a fit.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
When did you know it wasn't work?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
It was hard. It just was really the yeah, like
from the jump like it, you know, and too in
fairness to PEN, they had state and government controlled licenses.
Like if your business is predicated on a government license, like,
you can't mess that up, like you just you just
(13:45):
think differently, you act differently. So that was really hard
for us because we were more successful and most fulfilled,
the most audience we were getting. More, the more audience
we got, the more eyeballs we got, the more people
talked about barstool, the more people looked at us or
talk talked about us, the better off we were. Penn
was like, could you guys just be quiet, Yeah, we
will stop talking to you, which was so antithetical to
(14:07):
how the company was built. The second piece of it
was pen it was really a cash driven business, right,
so they collected you know, they were collecting coins and casinos, right,
And when you collect the cash every night and you
count it, you have a high degree of predictability and
you have a high degree of certainty around what your
(14:29):
revenue is on a day to day basis. In the
media businesses, you all know, like it doesn't work that way.
So I felt personally I was spending a lot of
time of predicting what the revenue one month from now
was going to look like on any given Wednesday, And
it just was like it just was two really different.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Beasts if you have a mulligan, and in hindsight, Pen
never happened. Yeah, knowing what you do now, going back,
what would be the ideal maybe one or two companies
would be the ideal buyer.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I think, you know, I'm so grateful that Pen did happen.
It changed you know, it changed everyone's life. It freed
Barstool up to go back to being privately owned, gave
you know, a huge reward to the investor, Like it
was a win for you know, most everyone in that equation.
I think Fox is probably the right home for Barstool,
(15:22):
like always was the right one. To be honest with you,
there was a hot minute we thought it was ESPN.
Obviously that wasn't going to be ESPN after we had
you know, our one a m disastrous one episode TV show.
But I think Fox was right. I think DraftKings or
FanDuel would have been probably a better fit with similar
(15:44):
challenges to Penn. But I really do think from a
media perspective, it would have been Fox.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, and so you know, you mentioned this a minute ago.
The notion of being out there, the notion of being loud,
even the notion of controversies to some extent was a feature,
not a buck when it came to Barstool. That must
have presented challenges for you as definitely a CEO. How
do you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
As a manager, you get very thick skin, and you know,
Barstool we were not in crisis, but we created crisis
for other people in our business dealings, which was challenging.
That was tiring. It was trial by fire, which was
a really good business experience. Like not much phases me
in business at this point because we had so much happened.
(16:32):
You know, Barstool years are like dog years, so it's
there was a lot that happened in that. But it
was also media is a really interesting business.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And I mean to take it to the obvious point,
like there's controversy and then there's like Dave Portnoy controversy,
you know, and obviously it's like next level, right, he's
been accused of things that he's denied, you know, Like
how do you take that on as a CEO?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Every day everyone at Barstool starts with a blank page
and the camera is on twenty four to seven, and
most anyone where the camera is on twenty four to seven.
And your job is to make people laugh out of
a blank page every day you were going to step
in it, like that is a byproduct of the business.
Like so the first is just the acknowledgment of this
(17:19):
is the world we play in, and this is the
business we chose and the cause that we adopted. I
think on the Dave piece of it, like, I really
loved working with Dave. Dave is brilliant, truly brilliant. He's
a brilliant business person. He has incredible instinct, He is
very decisive. He also is confident enough to know what
(17:41):
he doesn't know. And I worked for him, you know,
with him for almost a decade, and I trusted him,
like I truly and you know, I truly trusted him
on every level. And when things got tough and stuff
was you know, thrown at him, we talked a lot
about it, you know, and it's intimate and it's personal
(18:02):
and it's just you know, things people don't necessarily want
to know about one another. But I also felt like
he was super forthright with me, and I think he
also is super forthright with his audience, and there's people
who like that, and there's people who don't like that.
But I also I felt like I had really partnered
(18:22):
with a quality person who I was going to ride
or die with in that.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And so, you know, one of the things that I
think we're both fascinated by is and I've been listening
to your podcast work, which is really good in part
because you know, when you walked in, I felt like
I knew you because it is a very authentic. It
feels like representation of yourself. Is that just how you've
always been or is an experience? Is your professional experience?
(18:50):
Has it made you that way that you are transparent
and open and like very comfortable with real talk.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Oh no, I think I've always been like that. I mean,
I grew up in a locker room, so it's you know,
I think you're just like that. Yeah, when you're in
the locker room.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And I love to work, so locker room Alex is
where like athletes got them to you.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Really, he's like I had my own. I think I've
always been very curious and I've always had a lot
of energy, and I think barstool made me more public
than I would have ever been, I would not have
gotten to this place on my own, I don't think,
but I do feel that there is really a lack
(19:35):
of management talent. There's a lack of authenticity, there's a
lack of care for for younger people at work and
passion around being great at work. I think COVID kind
of killed the management. It really killed management, like you
stopped getting feedback, you stopped meeting with people one on one,
(19:57):
you stopped learning in the hallways, and and you know,
I really believe that work as an apprenticeship. Anything I
learned is because I apprenticed under great people. And to
have a concept where I can talk about work, share work,
laugh at work, ridicule and push people and confront things
at work, I think is healthy.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So, Erica, you know, Jason and I were talking a
little bit a couple of weeks ago about managing talent,
and you've had some tremendous talent come through barstooping, from
Deon Sanders to Alex Cooper, Pat McAfee and obviously Dan
Kat If you had a do over, is there anyone
that you wish you could have kept if you thought
(20:39):
a little bit more proactively or is this the nature
of doing business and people just have to move on
in the next cold.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
It's so funny because I think Dave and I always
used to talk about it like an athlete contract, right
where you get a rookie and the rookie contract might
not be great, maybe it is great in rare air
and a few but you start, you get your first
contract or your first gig if you're a regular person,
(21:06):
and it's all about how you perform in that first term.
And we were very good about ripping contracts up and
creating new ones. And you saw that progression with Alex
Cooper in particular, because that was very public. But I
don't know that there's anyone who got away. There are
a lot of talent I'm glad we missed on, to
be honest with you, like I'm more grateful for the
(21:27):
people we passed on. I also think, you know, it's funny.
I deal with this now at work. When a talent leaves,
there's a feeling I think, a failure of like, oh
they got away, or we shouldn't let them go, But
it's really like, hey, they just graduated to something bigger
and this place. We were very comfortable with Barstool being
(21:48):
a springboard to go do other things. I think the
world has changed where when you're out on your own
and the cold versus you're in a stable where there's
constant promotion and cross promotion and instigation is very hard
to make it.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
That's very much like sports. I mean, contrasts are up
to get expensive. The other part that you guys did
really well. So you had a great farm system, and
you had great scouting, whether it came.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
From you and data.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
There's always a new crop. There's always a new crop, and.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So how do you translate that? Because as I understand,
I want you to, you know, bring us and our
audience up to speed on what you're doing at food
fifty two because clearly talent also at the talent and
content are clearly at the center of that. So what
are the lessons you take? How do you approach that talent?
It's food talent essentially rather than sports. So what's the
playbook there?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Talent is succession, right, so it's how do you think
about who's at the top of their game now and
how do you feed the next generation of that? And
that could be if you're an accountant or an FP
and a guy, or you're a media person, or you
work in advertising, or you work in manufacturing, whatever, it
doesn't matter you work in content. I really think about
(22:59):
it that you've got to give talent every possible piece
of ammunition you have. You have to offer something to
them in the power of the parent brand. I think
a lot of times, you know, you read about this
with Unwell and the Alex Earl versus the Alex Cooper
of it all is like, what is Unwell offering to
other talent outside of Alex Cooper in Unwell? Like, that's
(23:23):
a big question. What's the value proposition? Why is someone
part of this network versus another network? I think media
people and media networks miss that. But so long as
you give talent freedom, you have their back when they
mess up, because if you're in the public eye and
you're making content on a daily basis, you're going to
mess up. And then three is the money shows up
(23:46):
you can have, then you can play. But you always
need to be thinking about who's the future. You know,
who's the next generation? How do you start? Competition is
so healthy. I mean you see this in sports, like competition,
whether you're in a test kitchen at Food fifty two
or you're a fellowship of creators in my world at
(24:08):
home and life and food or you're part of barstool
is a great thing.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
So you mentioned that you ran into the Barstow opportunity
by raising capital and then it's shifted to something else.
So I'm going to do a little role play with you. Yeah,
my friend Jason here, he's a cio. He runs a
family office and he has a lot of cash, okay,
and he's looking to invest. Can you give him a
pitch on why he should invest? And what exactly is
(24:38):
food fifty two?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Absolutely so. Food fifty two started around the same time
as Glossier, and the whole era of the blog turns
into a little shop, and the shop turns into a product,
and the product turns into a movement, right, and Food
fifty two did this in the subject of table and
(25:00):
home and food, really food as the center of a
well lived life. What then happened is Food fifty two
started curating incredible products from all sorts of artisans all
around the world and had a very particular aesthetic and
a very elevated esthetic, but also for the first time
had a real vision for home cooks versus chefs or restauranteurs.
(25:23):
Or professionals. It was really about serving the at home
cook Food media has exploded since that time, and what
I really believe is that there's a couple things that
make food fifty two worthy of investments. If you want
to give me money, I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
He's got a lot of it. That's great, I love it, clearly.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But essentially, when you think about home and you think
about food, and you think about table or decor, lighting
or textiles or furniture, doesn't matter. The Internet eats the middleman, right,
and so you're going to have the Amazons of the world,
(26:08):
or maybe a Target of the world, and you'd have
a Creton barrel or pottery barn, and then you're going
to have things that are very boutique and bespoke, and
the pieces in the middle aren't really going to exist.
And what I think is very interesting about food fifty
two is that if you create a content engine that
(26:29):
surfaces artisans and makers and interior designers and stylists and
fashionable women, and you service and put products underneath that,
you can create a whole ecosystem that has a lot
of cachet, that has a lot of differentiation, that has
a lot of aspiration and a lot of appeal, and
(26:50):
you can do so in a way that you're not
dependent on Facebook and you're not dependent on Google, that
you're creating an ongoing conversation with people. So I'll give
you an example. I created thing called work like a Girl.
How was at barstool, everyone accusing barsool of being misogynistic.
So I was like, you know what, like that, I'm
gonna make T shirts that say work like a girl.
And that became my brand. And then last summer I
(27:12):
was like, you know what, I'm going to create this
into a Slack group. We now have thousands of women
who are giving each other advice all day long about
getting a job, managing in your job, finding a new job,
HR questions, management questions, AI questions, you name it. It's
a hive and you can surface all sorts of products
(27:32):
into that because we're in an ongoing conversation that's professional women.
You could see the same thing with stay at home moms.
You could see the same thing with interior designers. And
the ability to put products into those environments in a
way that's organic. I think will ultimately win in terms
of conversion.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
And then how do you make money?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
By selling those products and having really multiple lines of revenue.
So if you look at you know, we are just
about to launch with Porsche, so Porsche wants to be
associated with our audience. We also are featuring artisanal products
that we hand, you know, hand collect or curate. We
also manufacture and develop lighting and textiles and furniture, which
(28:15):
so there's three lines of business in one Instagram story.
And that to me is an interesting business, which is
not that dissimilar from the barstool business.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
And so how do you level food fifty two up?
I mean, because when you came in, you were coming
in at least a turnaround. Based on listening to your podcast,
it's a turnaround big time. Are you attracted to turnaround? Like,
what was it about?
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I don't know. Now that I'm in the middle of one,
I'm like, I'm not sure I'm gonna do this again.
But I liked the challenge of serving twenty five to
fifty four women. I was like, that's an interesting demographic.
They have a lot of pull there on. They're underpenetrated
(29:03):
in a way, they're underserved. So I liked that it's
not a viral crowd in the way that an eighteen
to thirty four. Man is a viral crowd. Truth, so
how you build for them is very different. I thought
that was intellectually very a lot of spending power, huge
amount of spending power, huge amount of influence, and huge
amount of influence on other people. You look at youth sports,
(29:26):
it's the moms. You look at what's happening in the home,
it's the moms. You look at a family's finances, it's
typically the mom. And then the second piece on the
turnaround of it all, I'm curious to learn, Like if
you look, you know, I've been here a year. I
know more about manufacturing. I know more about international shipping,
(29:47):
I know more about product development. I know more about
e commerce than I knew coming in is by a
factor of a thousand and so regardless, if I can
make this thing turn around, and you know, I've taken
a huge amount of cost out of the company. I've
restructured the company, I've refocused the company, I've rehired the
majority of the company. I've totally changed the DNA. It
(30:11):
may work or it may not. I think it will work.
But now I know media, I know men, I know women,
and I know manufacturing and it's so I feel that
I'm more viable because of it, because I've been able
to now study different types of business, different consumers, and
(30:32):
different business models.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
So, Erica, you made the analogy about sports. You go
from running this company Borstool again sub five million to
north of two fifty in revenue in like eight years
or so, you're basically the top free agent in the market.
How does that at this opportunity to come because I
would imagine that you would have many companies, many headhunters
after you. How do you land a fifty?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah, it's I think everyone thought I would stay in sports,
and I think everyone thought I would stay in gambling
in particular, and I got a lot of calls. But
what I I was a little bit scarred leaving Barstool
from the big company of it all, where I was like,
I don't I don't know. I don't know that I'm
going to Disney or I don't know that I'm going
(31:16):
to be a cog and a really big machine. I
also didn't want to compete against Barstool because I still
had like so much of I'm a Barstool girl, So
I'm like, I still have so much affection for that
brand in the business. And I also felt, you know,
like life is short and I want to try something
completely different. The investor behind Food fifty two is the
(31:37):
same investor as Barstool Sports. Sure, yes, so that made
it also easy. I had joined the board of Food
fifty two in twenty twenty three, so I also got
a look firsthand at what it looked like before I
got in there, which I like, you know, I sit
on the board of Ice, I'm on the board of Axon,
(31:59):
I sit on the board of the Pace. So it's
great to see companies. It kind of gives you a
sense of where the opportunity and where the challenges. And
I felt that there was a lot of upside if
I could, if I could turn this around, and I
hadn't done a turnaround in the way that this company
needs a turnaround, and that was a good It was
(32:20):
a good thing that would scare me.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So as someone who's been on the byside and the
cell side throughout your career, Like, what are the sorts
of deals that you're looking at? I mean, do you
grow through acquisition?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Here?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Are you a and are those content acquisitions? Are they
talent like what commerce? Like?
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Where you listening food fifty two will grow organically. Food
fifty two made two acquisitions before I got there. They
acquired a brand called Dance and they acquired a company
called Schoolhouse. During COVID, the synergies between the brands hadn't
been recognized. So I'm more of a try to grow organically.
(32:56):
That's how I've seen things.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Now.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
If you look at the PLL or you look at
those Vice is a company that's finding its way through
JV partnerships, right, and PLL in a large large part
is growing organically.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
But also the Premier Lacross League, sorry, the.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Premier Lacross League, they're also growing through acquisition. Axon grows
through acquisitions. So I'm more of a grow organic drive.
Build a vision, you know, see a vision, build a vision,
execute against a vision, have multiple lines of revenue, do
so on a low cost basis, and then diversify. That's
more my approach. I do think acquisition can be an
(33:36):
incredible accelerant. I think jvs are tough.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, and so you know, interestingly, you know the proverbial
seat you're sitting in. Melody hops inside in there a
bit ago and she put on what I thought Alex
was a masterclass and being a board member. What are
you like as a board Like, what what do you
what do you feel like you bring to the party,
what's the what's your sort of obviously it varies board
(34:01):
to board, but like what are you looking to get
out of that and what are you looking to give?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Hmmm, I don't probably not as good as a board
member as Melanie hops someone.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Well, I think she's probably the best board member. It's
like the history of boards. But like, so that's a
good thing to aspire to. We all aspire to that.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
I'm not I ask a thousand questions. I'm very curious.
I like management. I am not a I'm not a
pomp and circumstance board member, Like I appreciate public boards
and private company boards obviously super different. But I'm more
interested in how can you represent the needs and wants
(34:38):
and also the protecting the shareholders, but also how do
you help the company see something that they have but
they can't see from within? And so I'm a high
energy I guess I'm a high energy board member. I'm
very passionate. I have a lot of opinions. I think
a lot of times in a board in board sessions,
(35:00):
people get very pc and they get very quiet, and
I think, you know, a hard part I always say,
that's just as an operator and I have boards, is
there's nothing worse than the board member who does nothing
for you and says nothing during the meeting. I hate
those people. So I'm like, I never want to be
one of those people. So I try to be the
opposite of that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
All right, So now's the time that we get to
talk about one of my favorite subjects, lacrosse. In your
proverbial seat, Paul Rabel sat, he's a friend of all
of ours. You played lacrosse at Colby College very successfully,
so you obviously love the game. How do you link
up with Paul and Mike Rabel, his brother who you know,
created the PLL. They have grown as you, as you mentioned,
(35:44):
through acquisition. How does that come about? And what's your
relationship to the business of lacrosse.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So Paul and Mike Rabel showed up at Barstool Sports
in twenty sixteen. Well, and we had two conference rooms
and you know, at that point, probably one hundred guys
in like dirty sweats, and the conference room table didn't
hold up where if you put your elbow on it,
it just fell off, like everything was in the constant
state of falling apart of Barsol. And they showed up,
(36:14):
because that's a metaphor. Yes, So they showed up, and
Paul was playing for the MLL, which was a competitive
league at the time, and I believe he had a
large sponsorship with Warrior Lacrosse, which was owned by New Balance,
and they were looking for advice on how they could
(36:38):
get out of that, how how how could this thing
be created called the PLL Wow. And they showed up
and we were supposed to meet for a half hour.
We ended up meeting for two and a half hours.
And I've been connected to them ever since.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
So what were you were you thinking, all, Right, this
is a viable option, this isn't a Did you think
they could create a whole new league?
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Definitely, Because that summer when they came to see me,
we had just written. Jordie, one of the barstool guys,
had just written a blog on the conditions of the
MLL players, which were pretty embarrassing, you know, like it
was one pizza to be shared across thirty guys. They
were making like negative fifty bucks every.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Day, were literally like going home with fans and like
sleeping on their cat. It was awful.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
It was awful. And Paul was the first million dollar player,
and he had this big lucrative contract, but the big
lucrative contract was tied to the league, and so I
thought it was an interesting problem to solve, which is
he had a bird in hand, which was a big sponsorship,
the first time anyone in that sport had been recognized
(37:50):
at that financial level, and he wanted to give it
up to start something new. And I thought it was
very brave. I thought it was ballsy. And I also
felt that, you know, we were getting Barstool was getting
really a first hand look at sports because we were
doing so much. You know, this was early days for
you know, not early early Barstool, but early in my
(38:11):
time at Barsceol, and we were seeing, you know, hockey
is kind of lagging. Hockey is a very insular media
culture around it. Football was starting to rage, not the
way it is now, but in a way that was
was big. Baseball was you know, a little sleepy, and
I really felt that when I looked at the energy,
you know, you're a great example of this, the amount
(38:32):
of money, time and effort people will spend on their
kids come across is bananas, Yes, bunkers bananas. So I'm like,
there's an opportunity there. Yeah, yeah, and they've been chasing it.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
I mean it is amazing. And we've talked about this
in the context of lacrosse. I mean it really is
like a rod being like, you know what, I think
there's a better baseball league that I can you just
be like this majorly crazy, crazy to think.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
About Bana savannas.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, exactly, really cool.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
But you had a lot of those ideas. I mean
that baseball should I when we were working together, and
baseball should be more entertaining. You've got to commingle the
entertainment and the game like it's and.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
They've done that.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
They have, They've done it like they have.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
And we talked about youth sports a lot podcasts, and
it's a forty billion dollars opportunity and it's so fragmented,
and I always go to like, how do we also
make sure that like my mom, who couldn't afford you know,
big ticket items, how do we grow the sport but
also make it affordable for I think that's going to
be the rub we have to make it because we
don't want to lose great players to other sports because
(39:37):
they can't afford it. It's just not good enough.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
And so how do you grow it? Again, asking for
a friend, how do you grow lacrosse?
Speaker 3 (39:45):
I think you have to go to the youth. Yeah,
you need more kids preferring lacrosse. Lacrosse is low barrier
of entry sport. You know, if you look at street
lacrosse and Harlem like perfect example, like it's not if
you can pick up a basketball, you can pick up
a lacrosse stick and ball like it shouldn't be cosper.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
There's also been an expansion into you know, there's now
the WLL, the Women's League. I would imagine as a former.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
I'm passionate about the women's league and the women's lacrosse.
The coolest thing about the WLL is they will be
bigger stars than the men. Really, yes, because they they
get it, they want it. They are captivating on camera.
They Charlotte North and what she does for young girls
(40:34):
playing lacrosse is epic. And they're also new and I
you know, this is my thing for which I've been
saying to Paul and Mike forever. This is what I'm
like on the board, is like you who is your
Dennis Rodman? Yeah, Like, who's the jerk who's creating controversy.
It's the same conversation with WNBA, Like, the more players
(40:56):
showing color off the court in a way that's real
and relatable and impassioned, the better off the sport's going
to be.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Well, I mean to the point of they get it.
I mean, you've seen this through the links. You know,
we've seen it in college sports especially. You think about
women's college basketball and the stars that you know, not
just Caitlin but Paige Becker's when she was at yukon
jiw Watkins at USC. I mean, these are stars in
part because they have cultivated that in a much more
(41:28):
methodical and serious leg job, right right they did? They
just see they see the potential there.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Now, going back to food fifty two, I'm curious, where
do you see this in the next three to five years.
In a perfect world, do we talk about barstore world totally?
Speaker 3 (41:43):
I think in a perfect world, food fifty two finds
a home inside of a bigger company and it brings
the engine to bear and that may be something that
should happen in seven years, and you know, or it
happens in three years or you know, but I think
it should be part of something bigger potentially.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Not to give any secret a way, but what type
of company you think.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Could be a retail company that's looking for product differentiation,
or is looking for category expansion, or is looking for
a new customer set, or you could see, you know,
more and more media companies are looking for food and
home and life content, and so they're also looking for
(42:25):
diverse lines of revenue, and they're looking to expand e
commerce beyond affiliate. So I kind of see those two
paths as opportunities for this company.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
So I have no doubt you're going to crush it
in the next three five seven years with food fifty two.
I always wonder this. You're very young, Yeah, you have
a lot of experience. Is there a dream job out
there five seven years from now that's out there that
you kind of think about a little bit, but you
haven't leaned into it yet. Is there one job?
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Oh, I think I'm going to be like a college professor.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Oh really, yep.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I think I would teach business or I teach market
I'm passionate about work like a girl. I could see
doing work like a girl for a long time. I think,
you know, as in the Middle East last winter for
a sport a cook conference, and it was fascinating to me.
It was all men. It was very well done, and
I'm like, God, if you could just create a conference
(43:20):
for women around culture and home and lifestyle, I'm interested.
That's a business I would build after this, for sure.
So I'm interested in that.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
So one of the things that strikes me as we
start to wrap up and we've got rapid fire questions
coming at you in a second, but this notion that
it feels like your brand again, listening to your podcast,
even listening to this conversation, like you're about real talk.
I mean the title of your book. I want to
make sure I get this right. Nobody cares about your career.
(43:52):
Why failure is good? The great ones play hurt and
other hard truths like this is who you are. Give
us some hard truths that you've.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
H I mean, failure, it's all failure. The better you
can be failing is the better you'll be winning.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You struck out a bunch of time.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It was so funny, one hundred percent, Like I'm fifth
of all time in the history of strikeouts, right, Yeah,
it's cool that Reggie Jackson, my buddy's number one, But
there's four people in the estue of mankind that have
struck out more. And I think that one of my
small competitive advantages in business is that baseball is a
game of failure, and if you fail seventy percent of
the time, you end up in Cooperstown in the Hall
(44:30):
of Fame. Yeah, So the ability to get up to
bat with optimism after's so much failure, I think it's
a real gift.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Yeah. I wish people would put themselves out there more
and younger. If you look at the percentages in baseball,
they're pathetic. I mean, it's so infinitismally small, and the
reality is you're one of the greatest successes of all time.
And I really think the same thing is true. It's
(45:00):
so it's you got to put yourself out there. You
have to try, you have to take initiative. I think
people are failing to be generous and generous in their questions,
generous in their thinking, generous in their effort. And the
more generous you can be with yourself in putting yourself
into whatever it is you're doing, and the more chances
(45:22):
you take one of them is going to.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Hit yeah, all right, we're gonna go the rapid fire. Okay,
all right, so ten questions. We're going to bounce it
back and forth. So just like first thing that comes
to your mind, one word to describe your deal making style.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Fast?
Speaker 2 (45:43):
What's more important your data or your gut gut?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Who's your dream deal making partner? In what way?
Speaker 4 (45:51):
Like?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
In how wherever you take it?
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Who's my dream deal Dave Portnoy?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
There you go. What's the best piece of advice you
received on deal making or business?
Speaker 3 (46:01):
That no is the second best answer to yes.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
What's the worst advice you've been given?
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Hang in there.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
What's your hype song before you go to into a
big meeting or negotiation?
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Ooh, this is an excellent one.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
I have two.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
One is I'm Coming Out by Diana Ross and two
is The Velt by Dead Mouse.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
You can only watch one sport for the rest of
your life? Which one is it?
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Tennis?
Speaker 1 (46:30):
What team do you want to see win a championship
more than any I shuld you're a tennis fan, you
could say a person, team or person?
Speaker 3 (46:37):
I mean Carlos Carlos outgraz he sees one a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
But yeah, we love Carlito it's so great.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
You're obviously now running a food company. I had your
last meal. What would that meal be?
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Oh, that'd be like New Haven pizza and blueberries.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Oh, I gotta try that all right, Eric, Thank you,
really really good to spend the time. Do you thank
thank you.
Speaker 4 (47:04):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Anna Maazarakis, Stacey Wong, Lizzie Phillip,
and Eden Martinez. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples.
Matt Medulla was our sound operator. Our booker is Paige Keffer.
(47:28):
David E. Ravella is our managing editor. Our executive producers
are Jason Kelly, Amy Keene, Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Regina Delia,
Kelly Leferrier, and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is our head
of Podcasts. Special thanks to Rachel Carnivale, Elena Los Angeles
(47:48):
and Nick Silva. Joshua Devaux is our director of photography.
Rubob Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from
Jacqueline Kessler. Camera operation by Zuma Hussein Ryan Cavatero and
Holly Fisher. Our gaffer is Julia Gweski, and our grip
is Emily Wolowski. Katia Vanoy is our video editor. You
(48:11):
can listen to the Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or
wherever you get your podcasts. You can also tune into
the video Companion on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV.
Thanks for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome back to the Deal.
On today's episode, Erica Ayers Badon, she's now the CEO
of Food fifty two. You knew her in her previous
job as CEO of Barstool Sports.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I did. And she's a master at turner around companies.
I cannot wait to hear it. But she's a great leader,
great communicator, and she's onto new things.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Yeah, she has got massive ambitions. She's also deep into
the world of lacrosse. She played in college and now
she's on the board of the premier lacrosse League with
our buddy Paul Rabel, So lots to talk to her
about coming up. Erica ayers Badon, All right, my man,
(00:47):
Erica ayers Badan is here with us. You guys are
all buddies, So I gotta turn this over to you.
You gotta lead this one.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is strange, So thank you, Jason So Erica, we're
so excited to have you. Obviously we work together a
little bit with barstool'ew you first hand how wonderful you
led with the conviction and really how much success they
had under your leadership, and the growth was incredible. Now
you're Food fifty two. It feels like a big pivot.
What is the through line for you?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It's a great question, So thank you for having me.
I sold Barstool twice in twenty twenty three, so we
sold it to Penn National and then we bought it
back for Dave Portner I for a.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Dollar and oh, we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
That come September twenty twenty three. I was like, there's
I've done everything I came to do here, like I
have any I couldn't have dreamed that we would have
had two exits in a year, that the company would
be back with Dave. I really felt good about that
because I felt like Dave was always the right steward
(01:49):
for Barstool, and I gave what I could give and
the gift of the machine while I was there, and
I felt that the greatest offense to what I had
done for the past almost a decade would be to
stay after I was creating, and I just felt like
it was offensive to everything I sacrificed to build it
that I wanted to go find a new adventure and
(02:12):
a place where I could start and try to build
something again. And so that was really the pivot. I
also felt like I had marketed to eighteen to twenty
four year old men for you know, the better part
of a decade. And I was like, I know how
to do this. I was finding that I wasn't I
wasn't crazy stimulated by it. And I was writing a
(02:33):
book at the time, and the last section of the
book is do you stay or do you go? And
the point where you go is when things stop scaring you.
And I felt that moving into the women's space and
moving into home and lifestyle and manufacturing was sufficiently scary.
And so I made the pivot.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And I've never asked you this, how do you get
an opportunity like borsch do? There was a headhunter call
and say, Erica, I have a wild idea. How does
that work?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So it was actually funny. So when it was very rare,
and it was by accident. So I was in Los
Angeles and I worked in music. I had a startup
in the music space trying to build really fan platforms
around music artists, and we were raising money and we
went to go see the Charning group and I walked
into the meeting and the Charning group were like, oh, hey,
(03:18):
we just put money to this company. You've never heard of.
And I was like, well, what's the company and they said, oh,
it's Barstool Sports. And I pulled up my phone and
I was like, I lived in Boston when Dave started Barstool.
I used to get you know, I'd be hungover on
the tee and I would read the paper and I
have the app, and I'm like, here's everything that's right
with it, here's everything that's wrong with it. And my
(03:39):
business partner was pissed because as he was like, we
should be focusing on raising money for us. But I
really couldn't shake that conversation. I felt very jealous because
I knew that they would probably find a white guy
with an MBA and a vest and a button down shirt,
and that was not me. And I pursued that opportunity.
(04:00):
I tried to find anyone I could to get connected
to Dave. I finally got connected to Dave probably three
months later. We met in a coffee shop in the
West Village and I pretty much was working for Barstools
since that moment, but it didn't come. It was actually
very interesting because they had interviewed I think probably seventy
ish guys, seventy seventy five guys or men for the job,
(04:22):
and you could tell the recruiter was irritated by the
time I showed up because the recruiter had done his part.
You know, it was showing candidates, showing candidates.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Like I've delivered all these bros like.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And this chick walks in and so that's that's how
I got it.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Wow, did you have any idea what you were in for?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
No, No, you.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Said something interesting a minute ago that I love, which
is the gift of the machine. Was that what was
in your mind that that's what it needed because it
was what it was less than five million dollars.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Oh, it was, it was less than five million dollars.
It was probably fourteen people. They were based in Boston,
like it was. You know, when I remember my first
summer there, there was no office. I worked in hotel
lobbies and coffee shops while we while Dave and I
built the office, opened the office, we weren't sure who
was on payroll.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So, speaking of that, you go from under fifteen people employees,
you go from the sub five million revenue. You probably
don't even have a P and L. Really, Yeah, by
the time you leave, you go from that to about
two hundred and fifty million out of the top line revenue.
What were some of those drivers, the main drivers?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think the you know, the quote
unquote machine was what we were really good at is
one is finding new platforms at the time of emergence,
So podcasting was podcasting was just starting to emerge around
twenty sixteen, twenty fifteen, fourteen to sixteen, and most of
the big broadcasters weren't in it deeply because there was
(05:55):
no money there, and we had no money and the
cost of production for podcast was very low, and so
it was there was a low barrier of entry for
us to make a lot of podcasts. So we started
to make a lot of podcasts, and then you know,
a year later, Facebook Live and Twitter bought Periscope and
it was live streaming on the internet. We got into that,
(06:17):
and so the machine quote unquote, the machine is really
how do you find emergent platforms, how do you find
programming that was authentic. I really felt that there's something
with young men in particular that didn't want to be preached,
preached at or told what you know, the whole notion
of sports Center was dying, where you didn't. You weren't
(06:39):
going to wait until eleven o'clock at night to see
what happened today. You wanted the score and you wanted
the opinion in the same conversation, in the same context.
And what we built was the ability to clip that post,
that promote that, circulate it, and monetize it well.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And you also discovered this notion of of creators at
the core, right I mean, and I mean Portnoy, and
we'll talk a bit about him, I'm sure you know,
at the at the center of that. But you also
set about finding people, not just you found people and
married them to platforms.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Is that a yes, we found people and Dave is
really gifted at this is the Dave Gaz like the
core barstool guys have very good eye for talent. And
we were at a point where, you know, it's kind
of pre the capital eye influencer world that we live
in now. But the alchemy of weirdos from you know,
(07:34):
somebody's railing about New Jersey Transit and next thing you know,
you have Frank the Tank and you're putting Frank the
Tank next to an Alex Rodriguez or Dion Sanders and
it's it's just weird.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And so that was very capital confirmed. Yes, yes, yes,
So we.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Did a good job of discovering talent, and then we
did a good job of setting a social norm inside
the company of a high degree productivity and a high
volume of output. And we had a lot of at bats.
So because we had so many at bats, it was
easier for us to get a hit.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So you had some at baths. I mean, what was
your impression.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I just thought, first of all, I thought Erica was
a great leader. You always come up with wild ideas
with her, and she never said no, that's not going
to work. She always tried to figure out, like, Okay,
how do we think outside the box, how do we
get to a Yes, let me think on that for
a couple of days and she'll come back to you
with really productive feedback. But I mean, I was working
with Dan, who's very, very talented, the cat right, and
he had an enormous audience. The brand is so big, Jason,
(08:33):
that when I would go to colleges to give talks
or whatever, or even walking here in the cities of
New York, the people would.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Be like barstool, barstoo.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I was like holy smokes, Like not the Yankees' nothing.
It was Barstool, So I knew the power then when
I joined them.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And so Eric, I want to go back to the
pen deal that you mentioned, because that sort of sits
at the center in terms of the deal making that
you guys did, So how does that all go down?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So when I joined Barstool, the investors felt that we
should be able to do I want to say, twenty
five million dollars in revenue in four or five years.
I think it was five years. We ended up doing
twenty five million dollars revenue in like two and a
half years. So we it just we took off very
(09:18):
very fast.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And that's mostly adds.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Ads in commerce, so in T shirts, right, merchandise. But
we then built a subscription business, we build a pay
per view business. We were able to spin up businesses
in a way that was very fast because we were
we were I would say reckless but also highly entrepreneurial.
But long story short, we knew that there were two outcomes.
(09:42):
One was that a media company would buy Barstool Sports.
And then when PASSPO was repealed and gaming and gambling
looked like it would scale in the US, that became
very obvious that that was going to be the path.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And so this was the Supreme Court decision that basically
allowed for a life for.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
States to regulate sports betting on a market by market basis,
and prior to that it was illegal across the country.
I had always built the business to have optionality for
either path. And it's kind of interesting, like, you know,
Dave was on Fox in September and then the Good
Morning Barstools show launched, like that was actually probably the
(10:23):
right outcome for Barstool Sports is to find a media
home because the company has intrinsic media DNA. PEN came along.
Pen needed a brand. They had a large regional casino footprint,
They had infrastructure, and they had a lot of licenses.
They had all the state licenses or most of the
(10:44):
state licenses at the time, and so in that regard,
we were a really really good match versus a DraftKings
or a fan Duel or an MGM. Those were companies
we had worked for before. Those were companies we had
supplied a lot of audience to. And the way I
built to that, or we built to that is, you know,
in year one we had five gambling partners and in
(11:08):
year two we had two gambling partners, and in year
three we had one. So I tried to create more
and more competition and a king making of who our
partner was. And then by the time Pen came along,
we had a very very good case study and a
very high volume of proof points of our ability to
(11:28):
transact and our ability to drive customers for someone else.
I think a lot of times and acquisitions, what the
acquireye forgets about is that the acquirer wants customers, and
you are a conduit to either acquiring, keeping or up
selling those customers. And we were very cognizant of that.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It seemed Ben Jason and I were talking offline like
a dream, and I remember at the time, what a
brilliant idea. You have the regional footprint with Vegas, and
you have the bricks and mortar, and you guys have
with the brand, brand, the gambling and also Pen wasn't cool.
You guys made it cool, animated relevant. When you trade
on something like that, educate us a little bit. Is
it more top line? Is it a multiple of ibadah
(12:10):
or just you know, how does that work?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So we were a multiple of ebada So we were
lucky in that we had good EBITDA in the business.
Most of it we reinvested for growth. We were also
looked at on a multiple because we had a very
healthy and growing AD business and we were growing thousands
of percents or hundreds of percents on an annual basis,
really on every dimension. So if it was ad revenue,
(12:35):
if it was audience growth, if it's downloads on podcasts,
we were trading. We were trading up and exponentially up
year over year. Now there was a discount because the
brand was controversial and there was like, well what about
what about barstool? What about what about So there was
a discount to that and the partnership. You know that
(12:56):
in good ways and bad ways. You know, we never
and I never set foot in a Pen casino before
we did the partnership, and I think we didn't know
in some ways what we didn't know going into it.
I think we brought a tremendous amount of value to Pen.
You saw it in the stock price pop, you saw
it in the audience, you saw it in the establishment
(13:19):
of the brand. Ultimately wasn't a fit.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
When did you know it wasn't work?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
It was hard. It just was really the yeah, like
from the jump like it, you know, and too in
fairness to PEN, they had state and government controlled licenses.
Like if your business is predicated on a government license, like,
you can't mess that up, like you just you just
(13:45):
think differently, you act differently. So that was really hard
for us because we were more successful and most fulfilled,
the most audience we were getting. More, the more audience
we got, the more eyeballs we got, the more people
talked about barstool, the more people looked at us or
talk talked about us, the better off we were. Penn
was like, could you guys just be quiet, Yeah, we
will stop talking to you, which was so antithetical to
(14:07):
how the company was built. The second piece of it
was pen it was really a cash driven business, right,
so they collected you know, they were collecting coins and casinos, right,
And when you collect the cash every night and you
count it, you have a high degree of predictability and
you have a high degree of certainty around what your
(14:29):
revenue is on a day to day basis. In the
media businesses, you all know, like it doesn't work that way.
So I felt personally I was spending a lot of
time of predicting what the revenue one month from now
was going to look like on any given Wednesday, And
it just was like it just was two really different.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Beasts if you have a mulligan, and in hindsight, Pen
never happened. Yeah, knowing what you do now, going back,
what would be the ideal maybe one or two companies
would be the ideal buyer.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I think, you know, I'm so grateful that Pen did happen.
It changed you know, it changed everyone's life. It freed
Barstool up to go back to being privately owned, gave
you know, a huge reward to the investor, Like it
was a win for you know, most everyone in that equation.
I think Fox is probably the right home for Barstool,
(15:22):
like always was the right one. To be honest with you,
there was a hot minute we thought it was ESPN.
Obviously that wasn't going to be ESPN after we had
you know, our one a m disastrous one episode TV show.
But I think Fox was right. I think DraftKings or
FanDuel would have been probably a better fit with similar
(15:44):
challenges to Penn. But I really do think from a
media perspective, it would have been Fox.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, and so you know, you mentioned this a minute ago.
The notion of being out there, the notion of being loud,
even the notion of controversies to some extent was a feature,
not a buck when it came to Barstool. That must
have presented challenges for you as definitely a CEO. How
do you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
As a manager, you get very thick skin, and you know,
Barstool we were not in crisis, but we created crisis
for other people in our business dealings, which was challenging.
That was tiring. It was trial by fire, which was
a really good business experience. Like not much phases me
in business at this point because we had so much happened.
(16:32):
You know, Barstool years are like dog years, so it's
there was a lot that happened in that. But it
was also media is a really interesting business.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And I mean to take it to the obvious point,
like there's controversy and then there's like Dave Portnoy controversy,
you know, and obviously it's like next level, right, he's
been accused of things that he's denied, you know, Like
how do you take that on as a CEO?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Every day everyone at Barstool starts with a blank page
and the camera is on twenty four to seven, and
most anyone where the camera is on twenty four to seven.
And your job is to make people laugh out of
a blank page every day you were going to step
in it, like that is a byproduct of the business.
Like so the first is just the acknowledgment of this
(17:19):
is the world we play in, and this is the
business we chose and the cause that we adopted. I
think on the Dave piece of it, like, I really
loved working with Dave. Dave is brilliant, truly brilliant. He's
a brilliant business person. He has incredible instinct, He is
very decisive. He also is confident enough to know what
(17:41):
he doesn't know. And I worked for him, you know,
with him for almost a decade, and I trusted him,
like I truly and you know, I truly trusted him
on every level. And when things got tough and stuff
was you know, thrown at him, we talked a lot
about it, you know, and it's intimate and it's personal
(18:02):
and it's just you know, things people don't necessarily want
to know about one another. But I also felt like
he was super forthright with me, and I think he
also is super forthright with his audience, and there's people
who like that, and there's people who don't like that.
But I also I felt like I had really partnered
(18:22):
with a quality person who I was going to ride
or die with in that.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And so, you know, one of the things that I
think we're both fascinated by is and I've been listening
to your podcast work, which is really good in part
because you know, when you walked in, I felt like
I knew you because it is a very authentic. It
feels like representation of yourself. Is that just how you've
always been or is an experience? Is your professional experience?
(18:50):
Has it made you that way that you are transparent
and open and like very comfortable with real talk.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Oh no, I think I've always been like that. I mean,
I grew up in a locker room, so it's you know,
I think you're just like that. Yeah, when you're in
the locker room.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And I love to work, so locker room Alex is
where like athletes got them to you.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Really, he's like I had my own. I think I've
always been very curious and I've always had a lot
of energy, and I think barstool made me more public
than I would have ever been, I would not have
gotten to this place on my own, I don't think,
but I do feel that there is really a lack
(19:35):
of management talent. There's a lack of authenticity, there's a
lack of care for for younger people at work and
passion around being great at work. I think COVID kind
of killed the management. It really killed management, like you
stopped getting feedback, you stopped meeting with people one on one,
(19:57):
you stopped learning in the hallways, and and you know,
I really believe that work as an apprenticeship. Anything I
learned is because I apprenticed under great people. And to
have a concept where I can talk about work, share work,
laugh at work, ridicule and push people and confront things
at work, I think is healthy.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So, Erica, you know, Jason and I were talking a
little bit a couple of weeks ago about managing talent,
and you've had some tremendous talent come through barstooping, from
Deon Sanders to Alex Cooper, Pat McAfee and obviously Dan
Kat If you had a do over, is there anyone
that you wish you could have kept if you thought
(20:39):
a little bit more proactively or is this the nature
of doing business and people just have to move on
in the next cold.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
It's so funny because I think Dave and I always
used to talk about it like an athlete contract, right
where you get a rookie and the rookie contract might
not be great, maybe it is great in rare air
and a few but you start, you get your first
contract or your first gig if you're a regular person,
(21:06):
and it's all about how you perform in that first term.
And we were very good about ripping contracts up and
creating new ones. And you saw that progression with Alex
Cooper in particular, because that was very public. But I
don't know that there's anyone who got away. There are
a lot of talent I'm glad we missed on, to
be honest with you, like I'm more grateful for the
(21:27):
people we passed on. I also think, you know, it's funny.
I deal with this now at work. When a talent leaves,
there's a feeling I think, a failure of like, oh
they got away, or we shouldn't let them go, But
it's really like, hey, they just graduated to something bigger
and this place. We were very comfortable with Barstool being
(21:48):
a springboard to go do other things. I think the
world has changed where when you're out on your own
and the cold versus you're in a stable where there's
constant promotion and cross promotion and instigation is very hard
to make it.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
That's very much like sports. I mean, contrasts are up
to get expensive. The other part that you guys did
really well. So you had a great farm system, and
you had great scouting, whether it came.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
From you and data.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
There's always a new crop. There's always a new crop, and.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So how do you translate that? Because as I understand,
I want you to, you know, bring us and our
audience up to speed on what you're doing at food
fifty two because clearly talent also at the talent and
content are clearly at the center of that. So what
are the lessons you take? How do you approach that talent?
It's food talent essentially rather than sports. So what's the
playbook there?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Talent is succession, right, so it's how do you think
about who's at the top of their game now and
how do you feed the next generation of that? And
that could be if you're an accountant or an FP
and a guy, or you're a media person, or you
work in advertising, or you work in manufacturing, whatever, it
doesn't matter you work in content. I really think about
(22:59):
it that you've got to give talent every possible piece
of ammunition you have. You have to offer something to
them in the power of the parent brand. I think
a lot of times, you know, you read about this
with Unwell and the Alex Earl versus the Alex Cooper
of it all is like, what is Unwell offering to
other talent outside of Alex Cooper in Unwell? Like, that's
(23:23):
a big question. What's the value proposition? Why is someone
part of this network versus another network? I think media
people and media networks miss that. But so long as
you give talent freedom, you have their back when they
mess up, because if you're in the public eye and
you're making content on a daily basis, you're going to
mess up. And then three is the money shows up
(23:46):
you can have, then you can play. But you always
need to be thinking about who's the future. You know,
who's the next generation? How do you start? Competition is
so healthy. I mean you see this in sports, like competition,
whether you're in a test kitchen at Food fifty two
or you're a fellowship of creators in my world at
(24:08):
home and life and food or you're part of barstool
is a great thing.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
So you mentioned that you ran into the Barstow opportunity
by raising capital and then it's shifted to something else.
So I'm going to do a little role play with you. Yeah,
my friend Jason here, he's a cio. He runs a
family office and he has a lot of cash, okay,
and he's looking to invest. Can you give him a
pitch on why he should invest? And what exactly is
(24:38):
food fifty two?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Absolutely so. Food fifty two started around the same time
as Glossier, and the whole era of the blog turns
into a little shop, and the shop turns into a product,
and the product turns into a movement, right, and Food
fifty two did this in the subject of table and
(25:00):
home and food, really food as the center of a
well lived life. What then happened is Food fifty two
started curating incredible products from all sorts of artisans all
around the world and had a very particular aesthetic and
a very elevated esthetic, but also for the first time
had a real vision for home cooks versus chefs or restauranteurs.
(25:23):
Or professionals. It was really about serving the at home
cook Food media has exploded since that time, and what
I really believe is that there's a couple things that
make food fifty two worthy of investments. If you want
to give me money, I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
He's got a lot of it. That's great, I love it, clearly.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But essentially, when you think about home and you think
about food, and you think about table or decor, lighting
or textiles or furniture, doesn't matter. The Internet eats the middleman, right,
and so you're going to have the Amazons of the world,
(26:08):
or maybe a Target of the world, and you'd have
a Creton barrel or pottery barn, and then you're going
to have things that are very boutique and bespoke, and
the pieces in the middle aren't really going to exist.
And what I think is very interesting about food fifty
two is that if you create a content engine that
(26:29):
surfaces artisans and makers and interior designers and stylists and
fashionable women, and you service and put products underneath that,
you can create a whole ecosystem that has a lot
of cachet, that has a lot of differentiation, that has
a lot of aspiration and a lot of appeal, and
(26:50):
you can do so in a way that you're not
dependent on Facebook and you're not dependent on Google, that
you're creating an ongoing conversation with people. So I'll give
you an example. I created thing called work like a Girl.
How was at barstool, everyone accusing barsool of being misogynistic.
So I was like, you know what, like that, I'm
gonna make T shirts that say work like a girl.
And that became my brand. And then last summer I
(27:12):
was like, you know what, I'm going to create this
into a Slack group. We now have thousands of women
who are giving each other advice all day long about
getting a job, managing in your job, finding a new job,
HR questions, management questions, AI questions, you name it. It's
a hive and you can surface all sorts of products
(27:32):
into that because we're in an ongoing conversation that's professional women.
You could see the same thing with stay at home moms.
You could see the same thing with interior designers. And
the ability to put products into those environments in a
way that's organic. I think will ultimately win in terms
of conversion.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
And then how do you make money?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
By selling those products and having really multiple lines of revenue.
So if you look at you know, we are just
about to launch with Porsche, so Porsche wants to be
associated with our audience. We also are featuring artisanal products
that we hand, you know, hand collect or curate. We
also manufacture and develop lighting and textiles and furniture, which
(28:15):
so there's three lines of business in one Instagram story.
And that to me is an interesting business, which is
not that dissimilar from the barstool business.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
And so how do you level food fifty two up?
I mean, because when you came in, you were coming
in at least a turnaround. Based on listening to your podcast,
it's a turnaround big time. Are you attracted to turnaround? Like,
what was it about?
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I don't know. Now that I'm in the middle of one,
I'm like, I'm not sure I'm gonna do this again.
But I liked the challenge of serving twenty five to
fifty four women. I was like, that's an interesting demographic.
They have a lot of pull there on. They're underpenetrated
(29:03):
in a way, they're underserved. So I liked that it's
not a viral crowd in the way that an eighteen
to thirty four. Man is a viral crowd. Truth, so
how you build for them is very different. I thought
that was intellectually very a lot of spending power, huge
amount of spending power, huge amount of influence, and huge
amount of influence on other people. You look at youth sports,
(29:26):
it's the moms. You look at what's happening in the home,
it's the moms. You look at a family's finances, it's
typically the mom. And then the second piece on the
turnaround of it all, I'm curious to learn, Like if
you look, you know, I've been here a year. I
know more about manufacturing. I know more about international shipping,
(29:47):
I know more about product development. I know more about
e commerce than I knew coming in is by a
factor of a thousand and so regardless, if I can
make this thing turn around, and you know, I've taken
a huge amount of cost out of the company. I've
restructured the company, I've refocused the company, I've rehired the
majority of the company. I've totally changed the DNA. It
(30:11):
may work or it may not. I think it will work.
But now I know media, I know men, I know women,
and I know manufacturing and it's so I feel that
I'm more viable because of it, because I've been able
to now study different types of business, different consumers, and
(30:32):
different business models.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
So, Erica, you made the analogy about sports. You go
from running this company Borstool again sub five million to
north of two fifty in revenue in like eight years
or so, you're basically the top free agent in the market.
How does that at this opportunity to come because I
would imagine that you would have many companies, many headhunters
after you. How do you land a fifty?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah, it's I think everyone thought I would stay in sports,
and I think everyone thought I would stay in gambling
in particular, and I got a lot of calls. But
what I I was a little bit scarred leaving Barstool
from the big company of it all, where I was like,
I don't I don't know. I don't know that I'm
going to Disney or I don't know that I'm going
(31:16):
to be a cog and a really big machine. I
also didn't want to compete against Barstool because I still
had like so much of I'm a Barstool girl, So
I'm like, I still have so much affection for that
brand in the business. And I also felt, you know,
like life is short and I want to try something
completely different. The investor behind Food fifty two is the
(31:37):
same investor as Barstool Sports. Sure, yes, so that made
it also easy. I had joined the board of Food
fifty two in twenty twenty three, so I also got
a look firsthand at what it looked like before I
got in there, which I like, you know, I sit
on the board of Ice, I'm on the board of Axon,
(31:59):
I sit on the board of the Pace. So it's
great to see companies. It kind of gives you a
sense of where the opportunity and where the challenges. And
I felt that there was a lot of upside if
I could, if I could turn this around, and I
hadn't done a turnaround in the way that this company
needs a turnaround, and that was a good It was
(32:20):
a good thing that would scare me.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So as someone who's been on the byside and the
cell side throughout your career, Like, what are the sorts
of deals that you're looking at? I mean, do you
grow through acquisition?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Here?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Are you a and are those content acquisitions? Are they
talent like what commerce? Like?
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Where you listening food fifty two will grow organically. Food
fifty two made two acquisitions before I got there. They
acquired a brand called Dance and they acquired a company
called Schoolhouse. During COVID, the synergies between the brands hadn't
been recognized. So I'm more of a try to grow organically.
(32:56):
That's how I've seen things.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Now.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
If you look at the PLL or you look at
those Vice is a company that's finding its way through
JV partnerships, right, and PLL in a large large part
is growing organically.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
But also the Premier Lacross League, sorry, the.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Premier Lacross League, they're also growing through acquisition. Axon grows
through acquisitions. So I'm more of a grow organic drive.
Build a vision, you know, see a vision, build a vision,
execute against a vision, have multiple lines of revenue, do
so on a low cost basis, and then diversify. That's
more my approach. I do think acquisition can be an
(33:36):
incredible accelerant. I think jvs are tough.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, and so you know, interestingly, you know the proverbial
seat you're sitting in. Melody hops inside in there a
bit ago and she put on what I thought Alex
was a masterclass and being a board member. What are
you like as a board Like, what what do you
what do you feel like you bring to the party,
what's the what's your sort of obviously it varies board
(34:01):
to board, but like what are you looking to get
out of that and what are you looking to give?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Hmmm, I don't probably not as good as a board
member as Melanie hops someone.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Well, I think she's probably the best board member. It's
like the history of boards. But like, so that's a
good thing to aspire to. We all aspire to that.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
I'm not I ask a thousand questions. I'm very curious.
I like management. I am not a I'm not a
pomp and circumstance board member, Like I appreciate public boards
and private company boards obviously super different. But I'm more
interested in how can you represent the needs and wants
(34:38):
and also the protecting the shareholders, but also how do
you help the company see something that they have but
they can't see from within? And so I'm a high
energy I guess I'm a high energy board member. I'm
very passionate. I have a lot of opinions. I think
a lot of times in a board in board sessions,
(35:00):
people get very pc and they get very quiet, and
I think, you know, a hard part I always say,
that's just as an operator and I have boards, is
there's nothing worse than the board member who does nothing
for you and says nothing during the meeting. I hate
those people. So I'm like, I never want to be
one of those people. So I try to be the
opposite of that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
All right, So now's the time that we get to
talk about one of my favorite subjects, lacrosse. In your
proverbial seat, Paul Rabel sat, he's a friend of all
of ours. You played lacrosse at Colby College very successfully,
so you obviously love the game. How do you link
up with Paul and Mike Rabel, his brother who you know,
created the PLL. They have grown as you, as you mentioned,
(35:44):
through acquisition. How does that come about? And what's your
relationship to the business of lacrosse.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So Paul and Mike Rabel showed up at Barstool Sports
in twenty sixteen. Well, and we had two conference rooms
and you know, at that point, probably one hundred guys
in like dirty sweats, and the conference room table didn't
hold up where if you put your elbow on it,
it just fell off, like everything was in the constant
state of falling apart of Barsol. And they showed up,
(36:14):
because that's a metaphor. Yes, So they showed up, and
Paul was playing for the MLL, which was a competitive
league at the time, and I believe he had a
large sponsorship with Warrior Lacrosse, which was owned by New Balance,
and they were looking for advice on how they could
(36:38):
get out of that, how how how could this thing
be created called the PLL Wow. And they showed up
and we were supposed to meet for a half hour.
We ended up meeting for two and a half hours.
And I've been connected to them ever since.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
So what were you were you thinking, all, Right, this
is a viable option, this isn't a Did you think
they could create a whole new league?
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Definitely, Because that summer when they came to see me,
we had just written. Jordie, one of the barstool guys,
had just written a blog on the conditions of the
MLL players, which were pretty embarrassing, you know, like it
was one pizza to be shared across thirty guys. They
were making like negative fifty bucks every.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Day, were literally like going home with fans and like
sleeping on their cat. It was awful.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
It was awful. And Paul was the first million dollar player,
and he had this big lucrative contract, but the big
lucrative contract was tied to the league, and so I
thought it was an interesting problem to solve, which is
he had a bird in hand, which was a big sponsorship,
the first time anyone in that sport had been recognized
(37:50):
at that financial level, and he wanted to give it
up to start something new. And I thought it was
very brave. I thought it was ballsy. And I also
felt that, you know, we were getting Barstool was getting
really a first hand look at sports because we were
doing so much. You know, this was early days for
you know, not early early Barstool, but early in my
(38:11):
time at Barsceol, and we were seeing, you know, hockey
is kind of lagging. Hockey is a very insular media
culture around it. Football was starting to rage, not the
way it is now, but in a way that was
was big. Baseball was you know, a little sleepy, and
I really felt that when I looked at the energy,
you know, you're a great example of this, the amount
(38:32):
of money, time and effort people will spend on their
kids come across is bananas, Yes, bunkers bananas. So I'm like,
there's an opportunity there. Yeah, yeah, and they've been chasing it.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
I mean it is amazing. And we've talked about this
in the context of lacrosse. I mean it really is
like a rod being like, you know what, I think
there's a better baseball league that I can you just
be like this majorly crazy, crazy to think.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
About Bana savannas.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, exactly, really cool.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
But you had a lot of those ideas. I mean
that baseball should I when we were working together, and
baseball should be more entertaining. You've got to commingle the
entertainment and the game like it's and.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
They've done that.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
They have, They've done it like they have.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
And we talked about youth sports a lot podcasts, and
it's a forty billion dollars opportunity and it's so fragmented,
and I always go to like, how do we also
make sure that like my mom, who couldn't afford you know,
big ticket items, how do we grow the sport but
also make it affordable for I think that's going to
be the rub we have to make it because we
don't want to lose great players to other sports because
(39:37):
they can't afford it. It's just not good enough.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
And so how do you grow it? Again, asking for
a friend, how do you grow lacrosse?
Speaker 3 (39:45):
I think you have to go to the youth. Yeah,
you need more kids preferring lacrosse. Lacrosse is low barrier
of entry sport. You know, if you look at street
lacrosse and Harlem like perfect example, like it's not if
you can pick up a basketball, you can pick up
a lacrosse stick and ball like it shouldn't be cosper.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
There's also been an expansion into you know, there's now
the WLL, the Women's League. I would imagine as a former.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
I'm passionate about the women's league and the women's lacrosse.
The coolest thing about the WLL is they will be
bigger stars than the men. Really, yes, because they they
get it, they want it. They are captivating on camera.
They Charlotte North and what she does for young girls
(40:34):
playing lacrosse is epic. And they're also new and I
you know, this is my thing for which I've been
saying to Paul and Mike forever. This is what I'm
like on the board, is like you who is your
Dennis Rodman? Yeah, Like, who's the jerk who's creating controversy.
It's the same conversation with WNBA, Like, the more players
(40:56):
showing color off the court in a way that's real
and relatable and impassioned, the better off the sport's going
to be.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Well, I mean to the point of they get it.
I mean, you've seen this through the links. You know,
we've seen it in college sports especially. You think about
women's college basketball and the stars that you know, not
just Caitlin but Paige Becker's when she was at yukon
jiw Watkins at USC. I mean, these are stars in
part because they have cultivated that in a much more
(41:28):
methodical and serious leg job, right right they did? They
just see they see the potential there.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Now, going back to food fifty two, I'm curious, where
do you see this in the next three to five years.
In a perfect world, do we talk about barstore world totally?
Speaker 3 (41:43):
I think in a perfect world, food fifty two finds
a home inside of a bigger company and it brings
the engine to bear and that may be something that
should happen in seven years, and you know, or it
happens in three years or you know, but I think
it should be part of something bigger potentially.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Not to give any secret a way, but what type
of company you think.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Could be a retail company that's looking for product differentiation,
or is looking for category expansion, or is looking for
a new customer set, or you could see, you know,
more and more media companies are looking for food and
home and life content, and so they're also looking for
(42:25):
diverse lines of revenue, and they're looking to expand e
commerce beyond affiliate. So I kind of see those two
paths as opportunities for this company.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
So I have no doubt you're going to crush it
in the next three five seven years with food fifty two.
I always wonder this. You're very young, Yeah, you have
a lot of experience. Is there a dream job out
there five seven years from now that's out there that
you kind of think about a little bit, but you
haven't leaned into it yet. Is there one job?
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Oh, I think I'm going to be like a college professor.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Oh really, yep.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I think I would teach business or I teach market
I'm passionate about work like a girl. I could see
doing work like a girl for a long time. I think,
you know, as in the Middle East last winter for
a sport a cook conference, and it was fascinating to me.
It was all men. It was very well done, and
I'm like, God, if you could just create a conference
(43:20):
for women around culture and home and lifestyle, I'm interested.
That's a business I would build after this, for sure.
So I'm interested in that.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
So one of the things that strikes me as we
start to wrap up and we've got rapid fire questions
coming at you in a second, but this notion that
it feels like your brand again, listening to your podcast,
even listening to this conversation, like you're about real talk.
I mean the title of your book. I want to
make sure I get this right. Nobody cares about your career.
(43:52):
Why failure is good? The great ones play hurt and
other hard truths like this is who you are. Give
us some hard truths that you've.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
H I mean, failure, it's all failure. The better you
can be failing is the better you'll be winning.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You struck out a bunch of time.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It was so funny, one hundred percent, Like I'm fifth
of all time in the history of strikeouts, right, Yeah,
it's cool that Reggie Jackson, my buddy's number one, But
there's four people in the estue of mankind that have
struck out more. And I think that one of my
small competitive advantages in business is that baseball is a
game of failure, and if you fail seventy percent of
the time, you end up in Cooperstown in the Hall
(44:30):
of Fame. Yeah, So the ability to get up to
bat with optimism after's so much failure, I think it's
a real gift.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Yeah. I wish people would put themselves out there more
and younger. If you look at the percentages in baseball,
they're pathetic. I mean, it's so infinitismally small, and the
reality is you're one of the greatest successes of all time.
And I really think the same thing is true. It's
(45:00):
so it's you got to put yourself out there. You
have to try, you have to take initiative. I think
people are failing to be generous and generous in their questions,
generous in their thinking, generous in their effort. And the
more generous you can be with yourself in putting yourself
into whatever it is you're doing, and the more chances
(45:22):
you take one of them is going to.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Hit yeah, all right, we're gonna go the rapid fire. Okay,
all right, so ten questions. We're going to bounce it
back and forth. So just like first thing that comes
to your mind, one word to describe your deal making style.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Fast?
Speaker 2 (45:43):
What's more important your data or your gut gut?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Who's your dream deal making partner? In what way?
Speaker 4 (45:51):
Like?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
In how wherever you take it?
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Who's my dream deal Dave Portnoy?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
There you go. What's the best piece of advice you
received on deal making or business?
Speaker 3 (46:01):
That no is the second best answer to yes.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
What's the worst advice you've been given?
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Hang in there.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
What's your hype song before you go to into a
big meeting or negotiation?
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Ooh, this is an excellent one.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
I have two.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
One is I'm Coming Out by Diana Ross and two
is The Velt by Dead Mouse.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
You can only watch one sport for the rest of
your life? Which one is it?
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Tennis?
Speaker 1 (46:30):
What team do you want to see win a championship
more than any I shuld you're a tennis fan, you
could say a person, team or person?
Speaker 3 (46:37):
I mean Carlos Carlos outgraz he sees one a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
But yeah, we love Carlito it's so great.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
You're obviously now running a food company. I had your
last meal. What would that meal be?
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Oh, that'd be like New Haven pizza and blueberries.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Oh, I gotta try that all right, Eric, Thank you,
really really good to spend the time. Do you thank
thank you.
Speaker 4 (47:04):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Anna Maazarakis, Stacey Wong, Lizzie Phillip,
and Eden Martinez. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples.
Matt Medulla was our sound operator. Our booker is Paige Keffer.
(47:28):
David E. Ravella is our managing editor. Our executive producers
are Jason Kelly, Amy Keene, Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Regina Delia,
Kelly Leferrier, and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is our head
of Podcasts. Special thanks to Rachel Carnivale, Elena Los Angeles
(47:48):
and Nick Silva. Joshua Devaux is our director of photography.
Rubob Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from
Jacqueline Kessler. Camera operation by Zuma Hussein Ryan Cavatero and
Holly Fisher. Our gaffer is Julia Gweski, and our grip
is Emily Wolowski. Katia Vanoy is our video editor. You
(48:11):
can listen to the Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or
wherever you get your podcasts. You can also tune into
the video Companion on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV.
Thanks for listening.
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