October 23, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly talk to Dallas Cowboys owner, President & General Manager Jerry Jones about how he turned “America’s Team” into a global brand. In this conversation, they discuss the risks Jones took to redefine the role of National Football League teams, how he faces criticism and the high-stakes deals that have shaped his legacy, including the controversial trade of Micah Parson.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
All Right, so we've taken this show many places, but
this is our first time in Dallas at the Star.
This is the brainchild of the Jones family, and we're
talking to the man himself, Jerry Jones.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Jerry my North Star is an owner and what he's
done with this franchise, taking it where he bought it
from to where it is today, pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
No one's done it better. Literally, no one has built
a more valuable sports franchise on the planet. Thirteen million
dollars is the estimated value of the Dallas Cowboys. Lots
of lessons that we're going to learn from Jerry Jones.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Let's do it. Jerry Jones, thank you so much for
having us here in Texas.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Well. First of all, I'm proud you are here. We're
overlook in the field and I'm kind of proud of
what's around the field as well with our Star. So
thanks for coming to the Star. Great to be with
both of you. And Alex. I'm so proud to say
my neighbor black paring dollars.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Right, So Alex, I'm gonna let you kick it off.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, so you know Jace when I first decided that
I wanted to own a team. This is something I've
been dreaming about forever and ever since I was a teenager.
But of course I come for very humble beginnings. But
I said, there's one owner I must talk to, and
that's mister Jerry Jones. And I made a call to Charlotte.
There was around COVID time. We were taking a run
at the mest Jerry's daughter, Charlotte Jones. I said, boy,
(01:40):
but tell you maybe in a couple of weeks, she'll
get mister Jones on because he is very busy, and
Charlotte hits me up right back, he Jerry would love
to talk to you. How's Wednesday? At two o'clock, I
said done, And I thought it was going to be
fifteen minutes. And boy, I'll tell you what. Ninety minutes later,
I have like pages and pages of notes and he
gave me. You gave me the most credible advice that
(02:01):
I'll never forget, and for that I'm very grateful. So
that call really meant it out to me. And a
lot of what you told me, along with what I
learned from George Steinners and others that I respect and admire.
I think about that as an owner today of the
Minnesota timpwlls and the Minnesota Lynx. So thank you for that.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Well, congratulations and you know, the minute that you told
me you were going to get involved at the ownership level,
it just made all the sense in the world. The
fact that you had always wanted to be an ownership
says it all as well, because in my mind, there
is a connection. It's a passion. You can call it competitiveness,
(02:41):
but it's accomplishing things that are hard to do. But
you know a rod you mentioned, George Steinbruner and my
early days with the Cowboys, I'd get a nice note
and I always look forward to it and it would
be from him, and he would give me I call
him my sweet Nothing. I put him in a file
that I had that for. But it were daily encouragements
(03:05):
because there was a lot of criticism because of the
way that we bought the Cowboys, changed the coaches out,
and frankly did a lot of changes. Well of all
the people in the world. To be getting those nice
encouraging notes that boys stick in there of keep it going,
I've got a legacy there and we George Steinbrunner, the
(03:28):
family and my family set up a company called Legends,
and that was, of course many years later, and I
got to meet with him several times as we were
talking about Legends, and Legends serves many many sports, and
it serves facilities in the process of really fan engagement.
(03:50):
I'll never forget though. George Steinbrunner told the group when
we met. He said, I don't need anything written down.
You don't spend any money or time on gone tracked
over there, he and I'll shake hands and we'll have
all we need to make this business work.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So, Jerry, you know you mentioned you getting into ownership,
and a lot that led to that. You know, when
Alex calls you and says he's gonna, you know, buy
into the NBA, the WNBA, no one would doubt that
was a good deal. When you bought the Dallas Cowboys,
people thought you were insane. The people thought it was
a bad business and that you were overpaying. What gave
(04:29):
you the certitude that this was a good.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Deal, Well, it truly was passion, And just as passion
can help you in many aspects of life. I really
didn't see those obvious obstacles. I just didn't see them.
Now you say, well, can't you see losing a million
(04:51):
dollars a month? Or you're blind? How much were you
drinking when you bought them? When you bought the Cowboys? Well,
one is I looked for ways, and this is common.
I looked for ways that were maybe a little ambitious,
but I look for ways to solve every one of
those problems. And while there may have been long odds,
(05:15):
there may have been a little imagination in those ways.
I took those problems and I thought I had a
solution as to how to address them. That's what you
will do when you want to do it real bad.
And yes, the Cowboys it was daunting. But the point
is that it was always there, the interest in becoming
(05:37):
involved and becoming involved in a way that, let's say,
unlike a rod becoming in a way that didn't swing
the bat or didn't make the block, which I certainly
appreciated as a great fan, but becoming involved in a
way that would make it better. I found no sports
(05:58):
franchise anywhere in the world that was making any money.
You see, sports had been a great, great portrayer of
what sports is about. It's called publicity. Well, the difference
in publicity, in my point of view, than marketing is
that publicity has great audiences. It has great if you
(06:21):
will interest and can create interest. Marketing is when you
take that publicity and you bring it home and set
up a plan to monetize some of it and go
out and get that and have enough coming back in
to go again. That's called a business model. Well, sports
(06:42):
had not only the great passion and the natural instincts
of competing in everybody and the appreciation of people that do,
but sports had this massive, massive publicity and massive of understanding.
It had no business model to make it called marketing
(07:04):
where you could bring back a little and go again.
That was totally necessary for me because I couldn't go again. Now,
what happened with me was candidly is that the amount
of money I had wasn't what was needed. But because
the NFL and the Cowboys were really slow, we were
(07:25):
really down and out financially. Frankly, because of that, in
the NFL knew they had a problem. The bankers didn't
worry about me because they didn't loan anything on the Cowboys.
The bankers loaned it on a receivable that I had,
and so the approval of me getting through the door
and still not having any money left to go buy
(07:47):
the General Partners that I had agreed under contract to
go buy out, but I didn't have the money to
go do that.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Along those lines, So go back to nineteen eighty nine,
you losing a million dollars per month. Now I heard
you say that you may have wanted to buy a
business that was cash flowin to offset some of those losses.
As you think about filling those holes? Was that stressful
and what was your strategy walk us through that?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
On a personal basis, I had such pride and such
an experience in sport when I was in college and
my senior year at Arkansas we won the national championship. Well,
I had been schooled in selling insurance. I couldn aw
that leg off the chair selling. But what I hadn't
done was been really schooled and financial. And so I thought,
(08:34):
because I could tell a good story and could borrow
all that money, that that was the way to go.
And so my first year or two out of college
I borrowed more money than you could even count. And
my first year out of school, I think my commissions
were thirty thousand dollars. My interest was one hundred and
fifty thousand. To give you an idea how over my
(08:56):
skis I had gotten. It took me years. It took
my Jeane, my wife, getting her purse taken out of
her hands, and cards credit cards cut into. It took
the bill players coming. So I had really gotten a
lesson in how not to do it. As far as
(09:17):
buying something, well, I managed to come through that and
it was the greatest education that I'd ever had. Well
then I was very fortunate and got some real finances
with the oil and gas business, after all that butt
kicking that I got for getting out over my skis,
After all of that, To show you how passionate or
(09:39):
crazy I was. After going through that of thinking that
the old financial death had been at ray, I turned
around and bought the Dallas Cowboys. That shows you how
much passion was involved. But I remember when we talked Alex,
I said, listen, I said, nothing, Nothing can stand in
(09:59):
the way of passion.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So I think Alex would probably validate this that when
he goes to buy a team, part of the advice
that he gets is sit, don't make any big moves,
no sudden moves, don't get rid of a bunch of
people right away. You didn't follow that advice that basically
the minute you come in you get rid of this
legendary coach. You fired everybody from the guy in the
(10:25):
announcing the public announcements to the head of publicity and
the general manager. Why what did you see that was
so wrong with them that you felt like you immediately
had to act.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
You have to assume when you buy something that who
you buy it from knows what it's worth, like it is,
give them credit or certainly their creditors might know. They
know what the business is. So a big mistake is
not to automatically build in know that you if you've
(11:00):
got to change the scenery, if you pay what you're
going to pay, assume they're getting top dollar and have
taken it when they got your money. So you have
to really go in thinking change. When it was as
dramatically out of culture as the cowboys were, I had
to have radical change, and I had to do it yesterday.
(11:21):
So there was an urgency. You didn't have time to
have a good time, so to speak. That plus again
the fact that I can't emphasize enough. I felt like
herschel Walker running through the line it was just bouncing
off of me. There were all kinds of hurdles that
were popping and of course where was the bad day. Well,
(11:44):
I couldn't have a bad day because I was getting
to do something that I'd wanted to do all my life,
and that ruled the day.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So one of the other most seminal deals that you
make is you mentioned herschel Walker got rid of them,
you traded it. It turns out to be arguably one
of the most brilliant trades in the history of football.
Did not seem that way at the time talk us
through that decision.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
If you look at making change, and certainly herschel Walker
was a change, the best player that we had, and
it was well known. In this particular case, you were
kind of new on the block, so you automatically didn't
know what you were doing. Always, when it's an accomplished name,
(12:36):
whether it's sport or otherwise, Always when you get a divorce,
there it's going to look bad for the one that
made the decision. Always, there's no question. If you can't
handle that, then don't make the tray, or if you
can't anticipate that, don't make the tray that's alive. And well,
but what it caused you to do is not just
(12:59):
the tangible bull consideration you got, which at that time
were draft picks. You didn't have a cap at that time,
but you had those draft picks, and that was the tangible.
What those trades did, what those picks did was allow
us to use them not only for using them in
the draft, but we used them to trade trade. And
(13:22):
we did it with I'm not going to say randomness,
but we did it with reckless abandon if you want to.
It caused you to be more of a player because
it was like going to Las Vegas with money in
your pocket. And I don't think there's any question that
are willing to take risk in those early days after
having acquired the Cowboys, that we built players built our roster.
(13:47):
I think the ability to cut and shoot was a
big deal.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I've heard you talk about ambiguity. I think about it
from the lend of sports, Jerry. There's some guys that
I've played with that are free agents and they don't
know when the next check's coming from or where's coming from.
And you create a three hundred hitter becomes a two
to fifteen hitter. A guy that hits thirty home runs
hits eighteen home runs because of the nerves. The same
is true in business, but you have this ability to
(14:16):
not knowing what's going to happen next to perform at
a high level. Do you believe that's true and where
does that come from if it's true?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Well, I know it's true in my situation, but I
think it's very true. And some of the greatest people
that have ever been involved in the professions or business,
they don't function as well if they don't know what's
going to happen at the end of the week, especially financially.
They need to know that so that they can get
(14:44):
on with their business of being as excellent as they are.
On the other hand, there are some people that the
ambiguity that's out there of not knowing what your check is,
they're better than if they knew what they check what's
gonna be. They're more clever, they're more cunning, they're more
(15:04):
They've just got more skill and are willing to exert it.
I call that tolerance for ambiguity. Tolerance for ambiguity. And
the classic, at least known story was the famous river
boat gambler Charming Mushtache sitting there. The next card up
(15:26):
is going to get him thrown off the boat or
he's gonna own the boat. Now, that's when he's the
best that he is in his life. And of course
he's gotten thrown off that boat before, and he's won
the boat a few times. The difference is, though, I'll
bet you not a one of those charming son of
the guns didn't know how to swim. Now you can
(15:48):
play that hand, but you better know how to swim
because you're gonna get thrown off the boat a little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
You've gotten thrown off the boat a little bit. I
was gonna say, you guys have been thrown off the
belts together. So I do want to, you know, move
(16:18):
ahead a little bit chronologically, because one of the ways
that you step out is with your deal making. You know,
you you come in, you're part of this club, a
club that a lot of people, especially now want to
be a part of, and NFL has its way of
doing business, and you at some point decide that you
might be able to do this a little bit better.
(16:38):
And I'm thinking specifically the Nike deal. You know, this
is a Nike athlete right here. Everybody remembers you and
Phil Knight walking out on that field. How does that
deal come about? How do you decide to do that?
Knowing that the NFL they've got Rebok, they're good, you
decide you can do something better.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
I had known a great coach named Made Sudden, and
he had told me about Phil Knight as a young
man bringing his things to where he was coaching in
college and selling it out of the trunk that Phil
Knight had had that path to where he was. But
the thing that was obvious to me was that he
(17:18):
took a shoe, or he took performance or perspective performance
mentally in a shoe, and he did such a good
job of telling the story with it that he made
me think if I could put the shoe on, I
could run fast. And that so hit home with me
(17:38):
relative to what sports is about, but really can be accentuated.
It truly is the story. When you see a rare player,
a rare athlete, there's so much more that's going on
there with that rare athlete and just the story of
(18:01):
what's making him where comparing him to the other players
or other competition. I call it one in one is three,
and I apply that to everything, whether it's a business decision.
One in one is three in sports, not two, but three,
And it's because that three is imagination. That three is
(18:24):
putting yourself in a way, having yourself hit the home run,
or having yourself there when you are watching or thinking
about it. That area right there isn't intangible because it
isn't intangible. That's where the biggest margins are in business,
not down here where everybody's doing it and the engineers
(18:45):
are working on it. They've got it whittled down to
the right there, This area right here, that imagineering, that
imagination part that makes one in one three is where
the margins are, and frankly, where the glory is.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I spend my twenty five of your career with Nike,
and Phil Knight was just the most amazing partner and
delighted me when you made that move. But my question
is when you come up with that idea at home,
you're thinking in the couch or wherever from the time
you call Phil Night, how long did it take and
how do those conversations go? Are you pitching your idea
(19:20):
of why there's a great marriage? How does that go?
If you can give us a little color.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
I visited with him my wife Jane and son Jerry
went to their headquarters. I will never forget us visiting
with a couple of his folks about what this might
look like. And he came in and we had gotten
pretty far along and he looked over at me. I'll
never forget it, and he said, I have never paid
(19:46):
so much for nothing in my life. But he said,
he said, this thing is something about it. I like.
When we initially made our deal, he couldn't use Cowboys
or he couldn't use the Star. We just did the
deal with the stadium. Now, as Charlotte said, she niked
(20:07):
at the stadium, we made that stadium look like it
was nikeputers out there. But we didn't do it with
the team. We basically brought the team out in no
colors and no sponsor at all. But when we got
to New York, we were playing the Giants, and that's
when we made this announcement. And at that time, when
(20:29):
we walked out on the field, I had a suit on,
but I had the Nike tennis shoes on. And Phil
walked out with me and I had the Nike hat on.
And we had met earlier with our Michaels, and we
had met with Dan Deardorf, and we'd met in the
dressing room and I explained to them what this was about,
(20:50):
where the edge was regarding the NFL and where it
was regarding Nike and the Cowboys. That made it a
contentious thing. I'll never forget how Michael said, now we
may if we have a close game here, we might
not get much to this in the second half. Well,
we had quite a lead the Cowboys did going into halftime.
(21:13):
So they spent that entire half talking about this relationship
in the NFL and what might might occur. That next morning,
Phil called me and he said I have never had
such a bang for my buck and the light when
he called. And I'll tell you from that time on,
I could walk down the streets in New York, I
(21:35):
could be in Chicago and you'd have drivers and cars
and what av you just point to Niken say go
get them. So the controversy, the controversy, if you will,
the controversy created also a huge interest when otherwise it
(21:56):
might just been some commercial issue, but created a huge interest,
and of course the potential result relative to my relationship
with the NFL and that type thing that got a
little touchy there for a little while, But in general,
I can't say enough about Phil and his buying into
(22:20):
the idea of taking a team. Now. He obviously to
this day wants to be a part of Nike in
the NFL, and it's as it should be. But when
it's the thing to do, you can do both team league.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Take everything you say, and I believe it. And yet
Paul Tagliabu, the commissioner at the time, was like, what's
Jones doing down there? We've got this deal? What makes
him think that he can he can go and do this?
Did you have that in your mind?
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Well? I had, and have all the respect in the
world for Paul Taglaboo, but I was operating on different gasoline.
I had the ultimately they had to come through me.
It was my fanny that was going to get put
out on the street if the Cowboys didn't make more
sense financially, and if something happened to the Cowboys, frankly,
(23:15):
it had a good chance of happening to others in
the NFL, other teams in the NFL, And so I
didn't see a solution to get in line, get in sync,
get right in with the other. At that time, twenty
nine teams thirty teams. I didn't see that answer either,
because I hadn't found that answer to do that, and
(23:37):
so candidly, it wasn't comfortable. I'm not going to say
it's comfortable, but it was inspirational to think that I
was doing something about the problem, and the way that
I was doing something about it, maybe for everybody, maybe not.
First I was interested in what it did for the Cowboys,
and I knew good and well some of the things
(23:58):
I was suggesting that I was getting criticized for. We're
in the best interest of the Cowboys, and I really
thought they were in the best interest of the NFL.
I think the clubs and the great markets they're in
around this country, they have all of the ability in
the world to promote their brands and to be imaginative
in terms of involving fans and products or services, and
(24:22):
I think they have the ability to get involved more
than you do at one central place. But on the
other hand, I thought the NFL as a whole had
a fabulous inventory of things to engage companies and services,
and they do very much. It's called Super Bowl, it's
called the game itself, and so Pitcher, if you will,
(24:44):
a circle that's got all of the clubs in it,
and then you have the NFL. Well, I could see
each club in their areas of marketing and making their
deal with Nike, and then I could see the NFL
having a deal if Nike, yes, but maybe with a competing,
competing entity. That fundamentally was what it was all about.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Right, because I mean essentially what happens, you know, for
those who aren't as familiar with it, is they sue you,
you counters. I mean contentious, it goes, it gets real contentious,
it gets litigious. Did you know that that was how
this was ultimately going to get settled? You knew there
would be a fight.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Well, first of all, frankly, and I had no other
way to think about it. The amount the league sued
me for immediately they owned the Cowboys and three hundred
million dollars at the time, and I told you that
I'd spend it all and didn't have the ultimate figure
(25:43):
was to buy the Cowboys. And so it was dramatic
for me and traumatic for me, but caused me to
certainly grow, if you will, buck up of sleep, but
sharpen up. And it was an experience that I think
(26:06):
we used as a platform again in years as years
have gone by, and really have benefited from that more
ways than just a shot of juice for the sponsorship area.
I didn't know that. Buying the Cowboys, by the way,
I didn't see that at all. I did see and say, look,
(26:29):
I'm going to have to find something or I'm going
to have a lost leader of millions of dollars for
the rest of my life. So I'm going to need
to go get something to associate the Cowboys with that
can help me tow the bill told the freight for
owning the Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Jerry, we were sitting at a game, at a Cowboy
game maybe three four years ago, and you said to me, Alex,
I'm around seventy nine, maybe eighty, and I work harder
today than when I was thirty nine or forty nine.
Where do you get that work ethic from, because it's
remarkable going down one bed.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Well, first of all, we were talking earlier, and when
you bought the team, you were fifty. If you could
possibly from fifty to my age today, if you could
have ten percent of the fun that I've had over
the last thirty years, I think five ten, take five
of it. I promise you there's no way to measure
(27:23):
what life has been since touching Sport and touching the
Dallas Cowboys. But it's given me such an inspirational base
that has caused me to do things, and really things
that aren't necessarily directly associated at all with the Cowboys
and the moral of the story. The lesson is, if
you got a dream, or if you've got something that
(27:45):
you're passionate about, boy, give your passion a whole lot
of value in terms of putting your assets together to
go do it.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
And so Jerry to that point. You know, for those
of us who've watched you more closely over the past
call it ten, fifteen, twenty years, certainly the last five
or ten, we see someone who is very comfortable with risk,
very comfortable with controversy. What becomes clear in watching your
whole history is this is a feature, not a bug.
This is who you are. What gives you such comfort
(28:19):
with risk because you seek it out, you run toward it.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
It feels like, well, I think that the experience if
you've taken risk, then certainly you have failed. I think,
as much as anything, it's the ability to deal with
the failure. And I ask the question, okay, when you
get up a month from now and it's gone totally
(28:43):
the other way for you, look around at your relationships,
look around at what you're about in life. Now, can
you live with how that's going to feel? When it
didn't work, It's that test, It's that next day test,
that next week test. Can you go? If you can
do that? Then you go back over there and say, okay,
(29:05):
now what do I have to do and financially what
the work you have to do to put it together.
The one thing I've always been able to do is
bor more money than I should have, and I'm real
good at it, and it crippled me when I was
much younger, just getting out of college. So I've really
(29:27):
never seen something that I didn't think that I could
figure out a way to financially make it happen. Ever,
now what I also though, having these cobwebs back there,
and if you ever cut me open, that's what you've
got in there is all of those times when I
couldn't pay. When I first got involved with the Cowboys,
(29:50):
it was pretty and frankly very negative in this area,
and I had a reporter come up and we won
one football game first year, and the reporter asked me, said,
these have got to be the lowest days of your life.
I said, about fifteen years before I bought the Cowboys.
I came in love Field at that time, the airport
(30:12):
here in Dallas, and I went up to a little
stand that was a rental car stand, small by the
day standards, put my card out there and said, I
need to rent a car for my work down here.
They looked down a list, took my card right in
front of me and just cut it into They said,
young man, you need to know how to learn how
to pay your bills. You don't have any credit. That's
(30:34):
a hard day in Dallas, Texas. Not just winning one
football game all year low. Those are the hard days
right there. And so again not to overemphasize the point.
The thing we're talking about, the interest in extending the
interest in sport, and certainly the years I've been involved
(30:55):
when it didn't quite work financially. Now we're doing some
good lately about how to make it work financially, and
that we're seeing that is more there than we might
have thought were there. I didn't necessarily see that. I
really didn't. I found it out pretty quick that it
was there. So looking back seems like, well, you know,
(31:18):
that ought to have worked. That should have if you're
sitting out here and now social media and all of
the eyeballs there, you ought to be able to figure
out a way to attach that affinity to a product
or our service. You should be able to do that. Well,
we hadn't done that, And to me, that's there today,
and it's there more so than it's ever been. Well.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
And one of the things that to your exact point, Jerry,
around the value of sports and the value of teams,
that has become very apparent. Private equity coming into sports
and specifically the National Football League has been a seminal
moment for the league. What do you make of private
equity so far in the league.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
I think that first of all, let me clear this up.
I'm a main street guy, not a Wall Street guy.
I was raised with a family that was the heart
of the customer. The customer is right that approach to things.
The thing that is so important is to take your
(32:22):
critical associations, and that can be products, service companies, It
can possibly be those very investors. I'm going to call
them minority investors, although I don't accept a minority investor
(32:42):
I don't want to say that about an investor, anybody
that wants to put hundreds of thousands or a million
dollars in the team. Boy, I want them to be
just as entitled, frankly as I feel about it to
get that done. And I want to treat them that way.
And I want them to think that when they walk
(33:02):
out here, if they come out here, I want them
to think they're a part of this team, because they are.
They're critical. Name me, any business that when they have
great capital sources don't really have a lot of energy
and a lot of success. And so sports today is
(33:24):
getting real capital sources as other investments would and that
capital resources. A part of that is not some dividend
check are not some plaque on the wall. A part
of that is being involved in getting to be a
part of the team. I think that's critical. I've had
(33:47):
people involved in our team, the Cowboys, not a direct ownership,
but as a valued sponsor. And let's say a beer sponsor. Well,
that's Jerry Jones out at the floor of that warehouse
at six in the morning, and you'd think I was
talking to the football team at halftime. Instead, I'm talking
(34:11):
to the drivers and I'm talking to the drivers about
how when they go in at seven eleven, talk to
the manager about product placement and putting it to where
more people are buy the beer. I'm explaining that to them.
So consequently, I'm as interested in the Cowboys helping them
be what they want to be, as they are in
(34:33):
being interested in the Cowboys. So that's not exactly the
relationship that somebody might think if they were sitting there
as an investment in a fund or something like that.
There's more too being an owner in sports, and it
can be and it can be very rewarding.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
You told me that in that phone call, and you said, Alex,
it has to be you. You got to be the
chief marketing officer, the chief revenue officer has got to
be you, not anyone you higher. They want to see you,
and you're going to open doors for that team, and
he's going to be you. And you said it like
three times, you said, don't forget that.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
So Jerry, would you you know you have held under
this as your family business for all I have to
think you've got people knocking on your door, especially with
these newly approved private equity firms, they'd love to buy
a stake in the Cowboys. Would you consider that?
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Well, I know that. I asked one person. His name
was Don Tyson of Tyson's Chicken. He's a great friend
of mine. He sat with me at two Super Bowls.
But when I bought the Cowboys and I lived in Arkansas,
I asked Don if he'd like to join me in
buying the Cowboys. And Don said, I'm going to buy
(35:41):
Holly Farms here in a few months and so, and
I'm not quite into the sport thing like you are.
So he said, I'm not going to do it. But
he said, Jerry, is it possible for you to do
it by yourself? And I said, well, yeah, but I'm
talking to you because it'd be a lot more I'm
a lot easier to have with you as a partner.
(36:02):
He said, if you can do this without a partner, okay,
you should do it. Because partners are expensive. That would
be from the eyes of let's say the majority owner. Well,
of course they're expensive. They're your partners. They own the
team like you own it, and they should be involved
(36:24):
and be included and be made to not some kind
of fictitious thing, but be made to be involved and
candidly I feel that way about our key sponsors as well.
To me, that's wearing it now. You and I both
know all owners don't get involved like George side Runter didn't.
(36:46):
All of them don't get involved like I get involved.
But candidly, if you want this thing to be what
it can be for you a rod, that is the
way to engage. And what you've ended up with is
almost a family of your own involved with the Cowboys.
In my particular case, I've gotten to spend this journey
(37:09):
directly with my family, and as it's turned out, they
have become not the ones we started the journey with,
and we have evolved. We've all evolved together. And I
get credit for most of the credit I get or
their ideas and their execution. But my whole point is
it is the journey, and it is the being involved.
(37:32):
And the good news is is that we can step
up there and win a championship. Have all of this,
all of this reminds me of the Godfather. Now I'm
going to provide the protection, the money and everything else.
Tell me why I deserve this good deed.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
And so when you talk about your family, Jerry, what
I hear you saying and I want you to keep
us honest here is that this will be the family business.
You're not looking for partners at this point. Is that
a fair statement?
Speaker 4 (37:59):
And I think the best way to make my point
is that I alluded to it earlier. I didn't make
an investment. I did not make an investment. I invested
in a job. And that's why from the very good
go I said I was going to be involved in
every way. My children buying through me back in those
(38:20):
years were not a part of an investment. We bought
the team, but what we got were jobs, and we
got a career and guess what we got a life.
And I can't tell you what the most rewarding thing,
of course, has been really working with them and having
them involved as well. So under those circumstances, because they've
(38:44):
spent a lifetime working with the Cowboys, I don't see
that changing. And of course there's no succession playing here
because they've been doing it anyway.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And so I would imagine, just to put a fine
point on it, well must knock on your door wanting
to invest in the Cowboys and you just say no,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Well, I've had wonderful opportunities, frankly, yes to have partners
almost almost from the time I bought the club. As
a matter of fact, the next morning I got up,
after we had had our announcement that we were going
to buy the team and make the changes, I get
(39:24):
a call from BM Bright, who had sold me the tea,
and he said, I just got a call from probably
the most qualified people you could ever imagine, and said
they were there, They've seen where I was, had a
handshake or whatever we've got, and they said to tell
you that you can whatever's on the piece of paper
(39:47):
we signed, which wasn't much, they'll take it. Give you
ten million to go home to Arkansas. That morning, I said,
mister Bright, I said, tell them that's thanks for their offer.
But to know, I'm on this thing now and we're
going with it. But the bottom line is that the
time spent, the commitment, the being in Bob, it really
(40:12):
hadn't been work. I've been some worry now, been some
serious serious what else, principally early financial, very early financial.
I could really have envisioned a disaster, and frankly I
had gotten to a point to where I shouldn't have
(40:33):
risked that regarding my family, especially after what I'd been
through and knew better. But I did it because I
wanted to be in Bob. But I was very aware
it's like being operated on a little bit while you're
still awake. I was very aware of the whole time
of how an embarrassing thing it would be to have
(40:54):
to leave Dallas and leave the Cowboys here whatever's left
of right.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
And so your succession plan is essentially you said there's
no succession plan, But the succession plan is your kids.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Yes, and it's in place. And the truth is they
could operate today if we decided we want to go someplace.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
So, Jerry, I have two daughters and their north star
is Genie Buss, the Great Doctor Bus's daughter, and Charlotte,
and you know they want to be involved with sports
one day. So they watched they admire, just like I
have studied you over the years. They're studying Charlotte and
Jennie Buss. So I hope to have that one day.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
I can't tell you how much I think that women
are such a part of the future of sport. We
know it in the NFL. We're so proud of our
percentage of women that are involved in sport.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
We're going to get to our lightning round in a second.
But there's one thing that just sort of strikes me,
you know, sitting here with both of you, who are
larger than life character if I can say this about
my partner and characters who have had to deal with
a lot of stuff coming at you over the course
of your career, is from when you were a player
to now, from all through your ownership. What's your advice
(42:15):
for blocking out the noise? You get a lot of
criticism every day in the paper, every day on social media,
Stephen A. Smith, whoever it is, fussing at you or
fussing about you, what's your secret?
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Well, first of all, sports gives you such a space
entering it. You know that you're going to have criticism.
You strike out, and you strike out at critical times sometimes.
And the very thing that we encourage is fans' interest
(42:48):
in that, and fans sitting there with opinions and their
opinions about whether or not we did it the way
they would have done it or what their expectation. That's
what it's based on, and it's so authentic and so
you live in that and certainly I don't guess I
should be proud of it, but I don't know of
(43:09):
many that have had more criticism than I've had over
the last thirty five forty years to be involved. But
I've never ever resented that in any way. As a
matter of fact, I want to address it and want
to be a part of it. Sometimes I think that
(43:29):
there may be something wrong here. I seem to do
better when they're criticizing me than when i'm not. But
sports allows you to do that, and it really does
allow you to show them, and it allows you to
have a certain place within yourself. You're part of a
team always, but within yourself it allows you to imagine
(43:53):
coming back and showing them we just made a trade
on Michael Parsons.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Really around here, Yes, we just made.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
A trade with Michael Parsons. Well, of course I want
to show that we can be successful with the result
of what that brings to the dollars Cowboys. That's going
to bat. Can you imagine I'm still sitting here going
to bat. I remember last year after or we had
(44:22):
a loss that really had me down, and so I
know that you're supposed to make that list. It's ill
been Franklin list where on the left side you list
all of the things that you've got that are great,
and on the right side, you list all of the
negatives that are going on, which would certainly be the
order of the day in that circumstances. Well, I want
(44:44):
you to know that sometimes I have to list my
things that I do right, I have to list it
about five times in five different ways to make my
list longer, but always come out of there with a
positive list. Glad to be playing ball today.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
That's right, all right, we're gonna do our rapid fire.
So it's ten questions. We'll bounce it back and forth.
The first thing that comes to your mind. What's one
word to describe your deal making style?
Speaker 4 (45:19):
Optimistic?
Speaker 3 (45:20):
What's more important to you? Your gut or data gut?
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 4 (45:26):
Oh, I would put George Steinbrunner right there, not be
cause it's convenient.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
What's your the best piece of advice you received on
deal making or running a business?
Speaker 4 (45:35):
It's not right or wrong. It's handle and cut your
wrong short and let your rights run long.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
What's the worst advice you've been given.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
I'd say it's from bankers, either on one side anxious
to loan the money or on another side being a
little reluctant to buy in the My idea.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
What's the deal you wish you had done?
Speaker 4 (46:03):
You know, I thought the Minnesota Vikings when Red McCombs
bought them, I thought that was the equivalent of not
far back. But that was like buying a fifty thousand
dollars house on a five hundred thousand dollars block full
of houses. I thought, I is there any way to
(46:25):
involve that with a family or a friend. And of
course they've ended up with some great ownership, but that
was for me at that time, the best deal I'd
seen on the street, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
In sport, what's more stressful the fourth quarter of a
playoff game or the final round of a negotiation?
Speaker 4 (46:43):
Oh? I think that playoff game is what it's all about.
I know a lot of people say Jerry's interested in
the interested in the values, and he's interested in the financial.
It was always about getting a chance to come in
here and do those things that let you get to
maybe have a chance for a world championship. And that's primary.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
What's your hype song before you go into a big
meeting or a big negotiation.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
I wanna be sweet here hard times?
Speaker 2 (47:20):
There you go, there you go, you can only watch
one sport other than football for the rest of your life.
What is it?
Speaker 4 (47:25):
Oh, baseball, it's my favorite. There you go. And that's
not because he's sitting it at all, all right.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
So we usually ask what's one team you want to
win a Super Bowl championship? So I'm gonna avoid that.
My question is, what's the first thing you're gonna do
when you win your next championship? And I'm gonna add this,
and can I come along?
Speaker 4 (47:46):
I'm gonna make a victory tour. And this day in time,
with social media and everything, it'll be quite a victory tour.
And let me say this, every time I make a
decision with the Cowboys, a little image pops up about
what you're going to do when you're holding the trophies
right there, and you will.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
We look forward to seeing you holding that Sunday soon.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Anamazarakis, Stacy Wong, Lizzie Phillip,
and Eden Martinez. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples
Manuel Lopez Kina was our sound operator. Our booker is
(48:37):
Paige Keffer. David E. Ravella is our managing editor. Our
executive producers are Jason Kelly, Amy Keen, Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn,
Regina Delia, Kelly Laferrier, and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is
our head of podcasts special thanks to Rachel Carnivale, Elana
(48:59):
sas X Angels and Nick Silva. Joshua Devaux is our
director of photography. Rhubob Shakir is our creative director. Art
direction is from Jacqueline Kessler. Camera operation by Ryan Cavtero,
e j Enriquez and April Kirby. Our gaffer is Mike Spicer,
and our grip is Eric tresciak Tony Yay is our
(49:22):
production assistant. Alex Diacanis is our video editor, and Will
Connolly is our assistant editor. You can listen to the
Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also tune into the video Companion on Bloomberg
Originals and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
All Right, so we've taken this show many places, but
this is our first time in Dallas at the Star.
This is the brainchild of the Jones family, and we're
talking to the man himself, Jerry Jones.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Jerry my North Star is an owner and what he's
done with this franchise, taking it where he bought it
from to where it is today, pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
No one's done it better. Literally, no one has built
a more valuable sports franchise on the planet. Thirteen million
dollars is the estimated value of the Dallas Cowboys. Lots
of lessons that we're going to learn from Jerry Jones.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Let's do it. Jerry Jones, thank you so much for
having us here in Texas.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Well. First of all, I'm proud you are here. We're
overlook in the field and I'm kind of proud of
what's around the field as well with our Star. So
thanks for coming to the Star. Great to be with
both of you. And Alex. I'm so proud to say
my neighbor black paring dollars.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Right, So Alex, I'm gonna let you kick it off.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, so you know Jace when I first decided that
I wanted to own a team. This is something I've
been dreaming about forever and ever since I was a teenager.
But of course I come for very humble beginnings. But
I said, there's one owner I must talk to, and
that's mister Jerry Jones. And I made a call to Charlotte.
There was around COVID time. We were taking a run
at the mest Jerry's daughter, Charlotte Jones. I said, boy,
(01:40):
but tell you maybe in a couple of weeks, she'll
get mister Jones on because he is very busy, and
Charlotte hits me up right back, he Jerry would love
to talk to you. How's Wednesday? At two o'clock, I
said done, And I thought it was going to be
fifteen minutes. And boy, I'll tell you what. Ninety minutes later,
I have like pages and pages of notes and he
gave me. You gave me the most credible advice that
(02:01):
I'll never forget, and for that I'm very grateful. So
that call really meant it out to me. And a
lot of what you told me, along with what I
learned from George Steinners and others that I respect and admire.
I think about that as an owner today of the
Minnesota timpwlls and the Minnesota Lynx. So thank you for that.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Well, congratulations and you know, the minute that you told
me you were going to get involved at the ownership level,
it just made all the sense in the world. The
fact that you had always wanted to be an ownership
says it all as well, because in my mind, there
is a connection. It's a passion. You can call it competitiveness,
(02:41):
but it's accomplishing things that are hard to do. But
you know a rod you mentioned, George Steinbruner and my
early days with the Cowboys, I'd get a nice note
and I always look forward to it and it would
be from him, and he would give me I call
him my sweet Nothing. I put him in a file
that I had that for. But it were daily encouragements
(03:05):
because there was a lot of criticism because of the
way that we bought the Cowboys, changed the coaches out,
and frankly did a lot of changes. Well of all
the people in the world. To be getting those nice
encouraging notes that boys stick in there of keep it going,
I've got a legacy there and we George Steinbrunner, the
(03:28):
family and my family set up a company called Legends,
and that was, of course many years later, and I
got to meet with him several times as we were
talking about Legends, and Legends serves many many sports, and
it serves facilities in the process of really fan engagement.
(03:50):
I'll never forget though. George Steinbrunner told the group when
we met. He said, I don't need anything written down.
You don't spend any money or time on gone tracked
over there, he and I'll shake hands and we'll have
all we need to make this business work.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So, Jerry, you know you mentioned you getting into ownership,
and a lot that led to that. You know, when
Alex calls you and says he's gonna, you know, buy
into the NBA, the WNBA, no one would doubt that
was a good deal. When you bought the Dallas Cowboys,
people thought you were insane. The people thought it was
a bad business and that you were overpaying. What gave
(04:29):
you the certitude that this was a good.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Deal, Well, it truly was passion, And just as passion
can help you in many aspects of life. I really
didn't see those obvious obstacles. I just didn't see them.
Now you say, well, can't you see losing a million
(04:51):
dollars a month? Or you're blind? How much were you
drinking when you bought them? When you bought the Cowboys? Well,
one is I looked for ways, and this is common.
I looked for ways that were maybe a little ambitious,
but I look for ways to solve every one of
those problems. And while there may have been long odds,
(05:15):
there may have been a little imagination in those ways.
I took those problems and I thought I had a
solution as to how to address them. That's what you
will do when you want to do it real bad.
And yes, the Cowboys it was daunting. But the point
is that it was always there, the interest in becoming
(05:37):
involved and becoming involved in a way that, let's say,
unlike a rod becoming in a way that didn't swing
the bat or didn't make the block, which I certainly
appreciated as a great fan, but becoming involved in a
way that would make it better. I found no sports
(05:58):
franchise anywhere in the world that was making any money.
You see, sports had been a great, great portrayer of
what sports is about. It's called publicity. Well, the difference
in publicity, in my point of view, than marketing is
that publicity has great audiences. It has great if you
(06:21):
will interest and can create interest. Marketing is when you
take that publicity and you bring it home and set
up a plan to monetize some of it and go
out and get that and have enough coming back in
to go again. That's called a business model. Well, sports
(06:42):
had not only the great passion and the natural instincts
of competing in everybody and the appreciation of people that do,
but sports had this massive, massive publicity and massive of understanding.
It had no business model to make it called marketing
(07:04):
where you could bring back a little and go again.
That was totally necessary for me because I couldn't go again. Now,
what happened with me was candidly is that the amount
of money I had wasn't what was needed. But because
the NFL and the Cowboys were really slow, we were
(07:25):
really down and out financially. Frankly, because of that, in
the NFL knew they had a problem. The bankers didn't
worry about me because they didn't loan anything on the Cowboys.
The bankers loaned it on a receivable that I had,
and so the approval of me getting through the door
and still not having any money left to go buy
(07:47):
the General Partners that I had agreed under contract to
go buy out, but I didn't have the money to
go do that.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Along those lines, So go back to nineteen eighty nine,
you losing a million dollars per month. Now I heard
you say that you may have wanted to buy a
business that was cash flowin to offset some of those losses.
As you think about filling those holes? Was that stressful
and what was your strategy walk us through that?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
On a personal basis, I had such pride and such
an experience in sport when I was in college and
my senior year at Arkansas we won the national championship. Well,
I had been schooled in selling insurance. I couldn aw
that leg off the chair selling. But what I hadn't
done was been really schooled and financial. And so I thought,
(08:34):
because I could tell a good story and could borrow
all that money, that that was the way to go.
And so my first year or two out of college
I borrowed more money than you could even count. And
my first year out of school, I think my commissions
were thirty thousand dollars. My interest was one hundred and
fifty thousand. To give you an idea how over my
(08:56):
skis I had gotten. It took me years. It took
my Jeane, my wife, getting her purse taken out of
her hands, and cards credit cards cut into. It took
the bill players coming. So I had really gotten a
lesson in how not to do it. As far as
(09:17):
buying something, well, I managed to come through that and
it was the greatest education that I'd ever had. Well
then I was very fortunate and got some real finances
with the oil and gas business, after all that butt
kicking that I got for getting out over my skis,
After all of that, To show you how passionate or
(09:39):
crazy I was. After going through that of thinking that
the old financial death had been at ray, I turned
around and bought the Dallas Cowboys. That shows you how
much passion was involved. But I remember when we talked Alex,
I said, listen, I said, nothing, Nothing can stand in
(09:59):
the way of passion.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So I think Alex would probably validate this that when
he goes to buy a team, part of the advice
that he gets is sit, don't make any big moves,
no sudden moves, don't get rid of a bunch of
people right away. You didn't follow that advice that basically
the minute you come in you get rid of this
legendary coach. You fired everybody from the guy in the
(10:25):
announcing the public announcements to the head of publicity and
the general manager. Why what did you see that was
so wrong with them that you felt like you immediately
had to act.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
You have to assume when you buy something that who
you buy it from knows what it's worth, like it is,
give them credit or certainly their creditors might know. They
know what the business is. So a big mistake is
not to automatically build in know that you if you've
(11:00):
got to change the scenery, if you pay what you're
going to pay, assume they're getting top dollar and have
taken it when they got your money. So you have
to really go in thinking change. When it was as
dramatically out of culture as the cowboys were, I had
to have radical change, and I had to do it yesterday.
(11:21):
So there was an urgency. You didn't have time to
have a good time, so to speak. That plus again
the fact that I can't emphasize enough. I felt like
herschel Walker running through the line it was just bouncing
off of me. There were all kinds of hurdles that
were popping and of course where was the bad day. Well,
(11:44):
I couldn't have a bad day because I was getting
to do something that I'd wanted to do all my life,
and that ruled the day.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So one of the other most seminal deals that you
make is you mentioned herschel Walker got rid of them,
you traded it. It turns out to be arguably one
of the most brilliant trades in the history of football.
Did not seem that way at the time talk us
through that decision.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
If you look at making change, and certainly herschel Walker
was a change, the best player that we had, and
it was well known. In this particular case, you were
kind of new on the block, so you automatically didn't
know what you were doing. Always, when it's an accomplished name,
(12:36):
whether it's sport or otherwise, Always when you get a divorce,
there it's going to look bad for the one that
made the decision. Always, there's no question. If you can't
handle that, then don't make the tray, or if you
can't anticipate that, don't make the tray that's alive. And well,
but what it caused you to do is not just
(12:59):
the tangible bull consideration you got, which at that time
were draft picks. You didn't have a cap at that time,
but you had those draft picks, and that was the tangible.
What those trades did, what those picks did was allow
us to use them not only for using them in
the draft, but we used them to trade trade. And
(13:22):
we did it with I'm not going to say randomness,
but we did it with reckless abandon if you want to.
It caused you to be more of a player because
it was like going to Las Vegas with money in
your pocket. And I don't think there's any question that
are willing to take risk in those early days after
having acquired the Cowboys, that we built players built our roster.
(13:47):
I think the ability to cut and shoot was a
big deal.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I've heard you talk about ambiguity. I think about it
from the lend of sports, Jerry. There's some guys that
I've played with that are free agents and they don't
know when the next check's coming from or where's coming from.
And you create a three hundred hitter becomes a two
to fifteen hitter. A guy that hits thirty home runs
hits eighteen home runs because of the nerves. The same
is true in business, but you have this ability to
(14:16):
not knowing what's going to happen next to perform at
a high level. Do you believe that's true and where
does that come from if it's true?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Well, I know it's true in my situation, but I
think it's very true. And some of the greatest people
that have ever been involved in the professions or business,
they don't function as well if they don't know what's
going to happen at the end of the week, especially financially.
They need to know that so that they can get
(14:44):
on with their business of being as excellent as they are.
On the other hand, there are some people that the
ambiguity that's out there of not knowing what your check is,
they're better than if they knew what they check what's
gonna be. They're more clever, they're more cunning, they're more
(15:04):
They've just got more skill and are willing to exert it.
I call that tolerance for ambiguity. Tolerance for ambiguity. And
the classic, at least known story was the famous river
boat gambler Charming Mushtache sitting there. The next card up
(15:26):
is going to get him thrown off the boat or
he's gonna own the boat. Now, that's when he's the
best that he is in his life. And of course
he's gotten thrown off that boat before, and he's won
the boat a few times. The difference is, though, I'll
bet you not a one of those charming son of
the guns didn't know how to swim. Now you can
(15:48):
play that hand, but you better know how to swim
because you're gonna get thrown off the boat a little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
You've gotten thrown off the boat a little bit. I
was gonna say, you guys have been thrown off the
belts together. So I do want to, you know, move
(16:18):
ahead a little bit chronologically, because one of the ways
that you step out is with your deal making. You know,
you you come in, you're part of this club, a
club that a lot of people, especially now want to
be a part of, and NFL has its way of
doing business, and you at some point decide that you
might be able to do this a little bit better.
(16:38):
And I'm thinking specifically the Nike deal. You know, this
is a Nike athlete right here. Everybody remembers you and
Phil Knight walking out on that field. How does that
deal come about? How do you decide to do that?
Knowing that the NFL they've got Rebok, they're good, you
decide you can do something better.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
I had known a great coach named Made Sudden, and
he had told me about Phil Knight as a young
man bringing his things to where he was coaching in
college and selling it out of the trunk that Phil
Knight had had that path to where he was. But
the thing that was obvious to me was that he
(17:18):
took a shoe, or he took performance or perspective performance
mentally in a shoe, and he did such a good
job of telling the story with it that he made
me think if I could put the shoe on, I
could run fast. And that so hit home with me
(17:38):
relative to what sports is about, but really can be accentuated.
It truly is the story. When you see a rare player,
a rare athlete, there's so much more that's going on
there with that rare athlete and just the story of
(18:01):
what's making him where comparing him to the other players
or other competition. I call it one in one is three,
and I apply that to everything, whether it's a business decision.
One in one is three in sports, not two, but three,
And it's because that three is imagination. That three is
(18:24):
putting yourself in a way, having yourself hit the home run,
or having yourself there when you are watching or thinking
about it. That area right there isn't intangible because it
isn't intangible. That's where the biggest margins are in business,
not down here where everybody's doing it and the engineers
(18:45):
are working on it. They've got it whittled down to
the right there, This area right here, that imagineering, that
imagination part that makes one in one three is where
the margins are, and frankly, where the glory is.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I spend my twenty five of your career with Nike,
and Phil Knight was just the most amazing partner and
delighted me when you made that move. But my question
is when you come up with that idea at home,
you're thinking in the couch or wherever from the time
you call Phil Night, how long did it take and
how do those conversations go? Are you pitching your idea
(19:20):
of why there's a great marriage? How does that go?
If you can give us a little color.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
I visited with him my wife Jane and son Jerry
went to their headquarters. I will never forget us visiting
with a couple of his folks about what this might
look like. And he came in and we had gotten
pretty far along and he looked over at me. I'll
never forget it, and he said, I have never paid
(19:46):
so much for nothing in my life. But he said,
he said, this thing is something about it. I like.
When we initially made our deal, he couldn't use Cowboys
or he couldn't use the Star. We just did the
deal with the stadium. Now, as Charlotte said, she niked
(20:07):
at the stadium, we made that stadium look like it
was nikeputers out there. But we didn't do it with
the team. We basically brought the team out in no
colors and no sponsor at all. But when we got
to New York, we were playing the Giants, and that's
when we made this announcement. And at that time, when
(20:29):
we walked out on the field, I had a suit on,
but I had the Nike tennis shoes on. And Phil
walked out with me and I had the Nike hat on.
And we had met earlier with our Michaels, and we
had met with Dan Deardorf, and we'd met in the
dressing room and I explained to them what this was about,
(20:50):
where the edge was regarding the NFL and where it
was regarding Nike and the Cowboys. That made it a
contentious thing. I'll never forget how Michael said, now we
may if we have a close game here, we might
not get much to this in the second half. Well,
we had quite a lead the Cowboys did going into halftime.
(21:13):
So they spent that entire half talking about this relationship
in the NFL and what might might occur. That next morning,
Phil called me and he said I have never had
such a bang for my buck and the light when
he called. And I'll tell you from that time on,
I could walk down the streets in New York, I
(21:35):
could be in Chicago and you'd have drivers and cars
and what av you just point to Niken say go
get them. So the controversy, the controversy, if you will,
the controversy created also a huge interest when otherwise it
(21:56):
might just been some commercial issue, but created a huge interest,
and of course the potential result relative to my relationship
with the NFL and that type thing that got a
little touchy there for a little while, But in general,
I can't say enough about Phil and his buying into
(22:20):
the idea of taking a team. Now. He obviously to
this day wants to be a part of Nike in
the NFL, and it's as it should be. But when
it's the thing to do, you can do both team league.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Take everything you say, and I believe it. And yet
Paul Tagliabu, the commissioner at the time, was like, what's
Jones doing down there? We've got this deal? What makes
him think that he can he can go and do this?
Did you have that in your mind?
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Well? I had, and have all the respect in the
world for Paul Taglaboo, but I was operating on different gasoline.
I had the ultimately they had to come through me.
It was my fanny that was going to get put
out on the street if the Cowboys didn't make more
sense financially, and if something happened to the Cowboys, frankly,
(23:15):
it had a good chance of happening to others in
the NFL, other teams in the NFL, And so I
didn't see a solution to get in line, get in sync,
get right in with the other. At that time, twenty
nine teams thirty teams. I didn't see that answer either,
because I hadn't found that answer to do that, and
(23:37):
so candidly, it wasn't comfortable. I'm not going to say
it's comfortable, but it was inspirational to think that I
was doing something about the problem, and the way that
I was doing something about it, maybe for everybody, maybe not.
First I was interested in what it did for the Cowboys,
and I knew good and well some of the things
(23:58):
I was suggesting that I was getting criticized for. We're
in the best interest of the Cowboys, and I really
thought they were in the best interest of the NFL.
I think the clubs and the great markets they're in
around this country, they have all of the ability in
the world to promote their brands and to be imaginative
in terms of involving fans and products or services, and
(24:22):
I think they have the ability to get involved more
than you do at one central place. But on the
other hand, I thought the NFL as a whole had
a fabulous inventory of things to engage companies and services,
and they do very much. It's called Super Bowl, it's
called the game itself, and so Pitcher, if you will,
(24:44):
a circle that's got all of the clubs in it,
and then you have the NFL. Well, I could see
each club in their areas of marketing and making their
deal with Nike, and then I could see the NFL
having a deal if Nike, yes, but maybe with a competing,
competing entity. That fundamentally was what it was all about.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Right, because I mean essentially what happens, you know, for
those who aren't as familiar with it, is they sue you,
you counters. I mean contentious, it goes, it gets real contentious,
it gets litigious. Did you know that that was how
this was ultimately going to get settled? You knew there
would be a fight.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Well, first of all, frankly, and I had no other
way to think about it. The amount the league sued
me for immediately they owned the Cowboys and three hundred
million dollars at the time, and I told you that
I'd spend it all and didn't have the ultimate figure
(25:43):
was to buy the Cowboys. And so it was dramatic
for me and traumatic for me, but caused me to
certainly grow, if you will, buck up of sleep, but
sharpen up. And it was an experience that I think
(26:06):
we used as a platform again in years as years
have gone by, and really have benefited from that more
ways than just a shot of juice for the sponsorship area.
I didn't know that. Buying the Cowboys, by the way,
I didn't see that at all. I did see and say, look,
(26:29):
I'm going to have to find something or I'm going
to have a lost leader of millions of dollars for
the rest of my life. So I'm going to need
to go get something to associate the Cowboys with that
can help me tow the bill told the freight for
owning the Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Jerry, we were sitting at a game, at a Cowboy
game maybe three four years ago, and you said to me, Alex,
I'm around seventy nine, maybe eighty, and I work harder
today than when I was thirty nine or forty nine.
Where do you get that work ethic from, because it's
remarkable going down one bed.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Well, first of all, we were talking earlier, and when
you bought the team, you were fifty. If you could
possibly from fifty to my age today, if you could
have ten percent of the fun that I've had over
the last thirty years, I think five ten, take five
of it. I promise you there's no way to measure
(27:23):
what life has been since touching Sport and touching the
Dallas Cowboys. But it's given me such an inspirational base
that has caused me to do things, and really things
that aren't necessarily directly associated at all with the Cowboys
and the moral of the story. The lesson is, if
you got a dream, or if you've got something that
(27:45):
you're passionate about, boy, give your passion a whole lot
of value in terms of putting your assets together to
go do it.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
And so Jerry to that point. You know, for those
of us who've watched you more closely over the past
call it ten, fifteen, twenty years, certainly the last five
or ten, we see someone who is very comfortable with risk,
very comfortable with controversy. What becomes clear in watching your
whole history is this is a feature, not a bug.
This is who you are. What gives you such comfort
(28:19):
with risk because you seek it out, you run toward it.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
It feels like, well, I think that the experience if
you've taken risk, then certainly you have failed. I think,
as much as anything, it's the ability to deal with
the failure. And I ask the question, okay, when you
get up a month from now and it's gone totally
(28:43):
the other way for you, look around at your relationships,
look around at what you're about in life. Now, can
you live with how that's going to feel? When it
didn't work, It's that test, It's that next day test,
that next week test. Can you go? If you can
do that? Then you go back over there and say, okay,
(29:05):
now what do I have to do and financially what
the work you have to do to put it together.
The one thing I've always been able to do is
bor more money than I should have, and I'm real
good at it, and it crippled me when I was
much younger, just getting out of college. So I've really
(29:27):
never seen something that I didn't think that I could
figure out a way to financially make it happen. Ever,
now what I also though, having these cobwebs back there,
and if you ever cut me open, that's what you've
got in there is all of those times when I
couldn't pay. When I first got involved with the Cowboys,
(29:50):
it was pretty and frankly very negative in this area,
and I had a reporter come up and we won
one football game first year, and the reporter asked me, said,
these have got to be the lowest days of your life.
I said, about fifteen years before I bought the Cowboys.
I came in love Field at that time, the airport
(30:12):
here in Dallas, and I went up to a little
stand that was a rental car stand, small by the
day standards, put my card out there and said, I
need to rent a car for my work down here.
They looked down a list, took my card right in
front of me and just cut it into They said,
young man, you need to know how to learn how
to pay your bills. You don't have any credit. That's
(30:34):
a hard day in Dallas, Texas. Not just winning one
football game all year low. Those are the hard days
right there. And so again not to overemphasize the point.
The thing we're talking about, the interest in extending the
interest in sport, and certainly the years I've been involved
(30:55):
when it didn't quite work financially. Now we're doing some
good lately about how to make it work financially, and
that we're seeing that is more there than we might
have thought were there. I didn't necessarily see that. I
really didn't. I found it out pretty quick that it
was there. So looking back seems like, well, you know,
(31:18):
that ought to have worked. That should have if you're
sitting out here and now social media and all of
the eyeballs there, you ought to be able to figure
out a way to attach that affinity to a product
or our service. You should be able to do that. Well,
we hadn't done that, And to me, that's there today,
and it's there more so than it's ever been. Well.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
And one of the things that to your exact point, Jerry,
around the value of sports and the value of teams,
that has become very apparent. Private equity coming into sports
and specifically the National Football League has been a seminal
moment for the league. What do you make of private
equity so far in the league.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
I think that first of all, let me clear this up.
I'm a main street guy, not a Wall Street guy.
I was raised with a family that was the heart
of the customer. The customer is right that approach to things.
The thing that is so important is to take your
(32:22):
critical associations, and that can be products, service companies, It
can possibly be those very investors. I'm going to call
them minority investors, although I don't accept a minority investor
(32:42):
I don't want to say that about an investor, anybody
that wants to put hundreds of thousands or a million
dollars in the team. Boy, I want them to be
just as entitled, frankly as I feel about it to
get that done. And I want to treat them that way.
And I want them to think that when they walk
(33:02):
out here, if they come out here, I want them
to think they're a part of this team, because they are.
They're critical. Name me, any business that when they have
great capital sources don't really have a lot of energy
and a lot of success. And so sports today is
(33:24):
getting real capital sources as other investments would and that
capital resources. A part of that is not some dividend
check are not some plaque on the wall. A part
of that is being involved in getting to be a
part of the team. I think that's critical. I've had
(33:47):
people involved in our team, the Cowboys, not a direct ownership,
but as a valued sponsor. And let's say a beer sponsor. Well,
that's Jerry Jones out at the floor of that warehouse
at six in the morning, and you'd think I was
talking to the football team at halftime. Instead, I'm talking
(34:11):
to the drivers and I'm talking to the drivers about
how when they go in at seven eleven, talk to
the manager about product placement and putting it to where
more people are buy the beer. I'm explaining that to them.
So consequently, I'm as interested in the Cowboys helping them
be what they want to be, as they are in
(34:33):
being interested in the Cowboys. So that's not exactly the
relationship that somebody might think if they were sitting there
as an investment in a fund or something like that.
There's more too being an owner in sports, and it
can be and it can be very rewarding.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
You told me that in that phone call, and you said, Alex,
it has to be you. You got to be the
chief marketing officer, the chief revenue officer has got to
be you, not anyone you higher. They want to see you,
and you're going to open doors for that team, and
he's going to be you. And you said it like
three times, you said, don't forget that.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
So Jerry, would you you know you have held under
this as your family business for all I have to
think you've got people knocking on your door, especially with
these newly approved private equity firms, they'd love to buy
a stake in the Cowboys. Would you consider that?
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Well, I know that. I asked one person. His name
was Don Tyson of Tyson's Chicken. He's a great friend
of mine. He sat with me at two Super Bowls.
But when I bought the Cowboys and I lived in Arkansas,
I asked Don if he'd like to join me in
buying the Cowboys. And Don said, I'm going to buy
(35:41):
Holly Farms here in a few months and so, and
I'm not quite into the sport thing like you are.
So he said, I'm not going to do it. But
he said, Jerry, is it possible for you to do
it by yourself? And I said, well, yeah, but I'm
talking to you because it'd be a lot more I'm
a lot easier to have with you as a partner.
(36:02):
He said, if you can do this without a partner, okay,
you should do it. Because partners are expensive. That would
be from the eyes of let's say the majority owner. Well,
of course they're expensive. They're your partners. They own the
team like you own it, and they should be involved
(36:24):
and be included and be made to not some kind
of fictitious thing, but be made to be involved and
candidly I feel that way about our key sponsors as well.
To me, that's wearing it now. You and I both
know all owners don't get involved like George side Runter didn't.
(36:46):
All of them don't get involved like I get involved.
But candidly, if you want this thing to be what
it can be for you a rod, that is the
way to engage. And what you've ended up with is
almost a family of your own involved with the Cowboys.
In my particular case, I've gotten to spend this journey
(37:09):
directly with my family, and as it's turned out, they
have become not the ones we started the journey with,
and we have evolved. We've all evolved together. And I
get credit for most of the credit I get or
their ideas and their execution. But my whole point is
it is the journey, and it is the being involved.
(37:32):
And the good news is is that we can step
up there and win a championship. Have all of this,
all of this reminds me of the Godfather. Now I'm
going to provide the protection, the money and everything else.
Tell me why I deserve this good deed.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
And so when you talk about your family, Jerry, what
I hear you saying and I want you to keep
us honest here is that this will be the family business.
You're not looking for partners at this point. Is that
a fair statement?
Speaker 4 (37:59):
And I think the best way to make my point
is that I alluded to it earlier. I didn't make
an investment. I did not make an investment. I invested
in a job. And that's why from the very good
go I said I was going to be involved in
every way. My children buying through me back in those
(38:20):
years were not a part of an investment. We bought
the team, but what we got were jobs, and we
got a career and guess what we got a life.
And I can't tell you what the most rewarding thing,
of course, has been really working with them and having
them involved as well. So under those circumstances, because they've
(38:44):
spent a lifetime working with the Cowboys, I don't see
that changing. And of course there's no succession playing here
because they've been doing it anyway.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And so I would imagine, just to put a fine
point on it, well must knock on your door wanting
to invest in the Cowboys and you just say no,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Well, I've had wonderful opportunities, frankly, yes to have partners
almost almost from the time I bought the club. As
a matter of fact, the next morning I got up,
after we had had our announcement that we were going
to buy the team and make the changes, I get
(39:24):
a call from BM Bright, who had sold me the tea,
and he said, I just got a call from probably
the most qualified people you could ever imagine, and said
they were there, They've seen where I was, had a
handshake or whatever we've got, and they said to tell
you that you can whatever's on the piece of paper
(39:47):
we signed, which wasn't much, they'll take it. Give you
ten million to go home to Arkansas. That morning, I said,
mister Bright, I said, tell them that's thanks for their offer.
But to know, I'm on this thing now and we're
going with it. But the bottom line is that the
time spent, the commitment, the being in Bob, it really
(40:12):
hadn't been work. I've been some worry now, been some
serious serious what else, principally early financial, very early financial.
I could really have envisioned a disaster, and frankly I
had gotten to a point to where I shouldn't have
(40:33):
risked that regarding my family, especially after what I'd been
through and knew better. But I did it because I
wanted to be in Bob. But I was very aware
it's like being operated on a little bit while you're
still awake. I was very aware of the whole time
of how an embarrassing thing it would be to have
(40:54):
to leave Dallas and leave the Cowboys here whatever's left
of right.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
And so your succession plan is essentially you said there's
no succession plan, But the succession plan is your kids.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Yes, and it's in place. And the truth is they
could operate today if we decided we want to go someplace.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
So, Jerry, I have two daughters and their north star
is Genie Buss, the Great Doctor Bus's daughter, and Charlotte,
and you know they want to be involved with sports
one day. So they watched they admire, just like I
have studied you over the years. They're studying Charlotte and
Jennie Buss. So I hope to have that one day.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
I can't tell you how much I think that women
are such a part of the future of sport. We
know it in the NFL. We're so proud of our
percentage of women that are involved in sport.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
We're going to get to our lightning round in a second.
But there's one thing that just sort of strikes me,
you know, sitting here with both of you, who are
larger than life character if I can say this about
my partner and characters who have had to deal with
a lot of stuff coming at you over the course
of your career, is from when you were a player
to now, from all through your ownership. What's your advice
(42:15):
for blocking out the noise? You get a lot of
criticism every day in the paper, every day on social media,
Stephen A. Smith, whoever it is, fussing at you or
fussing about you, what's your secret?
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Well, first of all, sports gives you such a space
entering it. You know that you're going to have criticism.
You strike out, and you strike out at critical times sometimes.
And the very thing that we encourage is fans' interest
(42:48):
in that, and fans sitting there with opinions and their
opinions about whether or not we did it the way
they would have done it or what their expectation. That's
what it's based on, and it's so authentic and so
you live in that and certainly I don't guess I
should be proud of it, but I don't know of
(43:09):
many that have had more criticism than I've had over
the last thirty five forty years to be involved. But
I've never ever resented that in any way. As a
matter of fact, I want to address it and want
to be a part of it. Sometimes I think that
(43:29):
there may be something wrong here. I seem to do
better when they're criticizing me than when i'm not. But
sports allows you to do that, and it really does
allow you to show them, and it allows you to
have a certain place within yourself. You're part of a
team always, but within yourself it allows you to imagine
(43:53):
coming back and showing them we just made a trade
on Michael Parsons.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Really around here, Yes, we just made.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
A trade with Michael Parsons. Well, of course I want
to show that we can be successful with the result
of what that brings to the dollars Cowboys. That's going
to bat. Can you imagine I'm still sitting here going
to bat. I remember last year after or we had
(44:22):
a loss that really had me down, and so I
know that you're supposed to make that list. It's ill
been Franklin list where on the left side you list
all of the things that you've got that are great,
and on the right side, you list all of the
negatives that are going on, which would certainly be the
order of the day in that circumstances. Well, I want
(44:44):
you to know that sometimes I have to list my
things that I do right, I have to list it
about five times in five different ways to make my
list longer, but always come out of there with a
positive list. Glad to be playing ball today.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
That's right, all right, we're gonna do our rapid fire.
So it's ten questions. We'll bounce it back and forth.
The first thing that comes to your mind. What's one
word to describe your deal making style?
Speaker 4 (45:19):
Optimistic?
Speaker 3 (45:20):
What's more important to you? Your gut or data gut?
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 4 (45:26):
Oh, I would put George Steinbrunner right there, not be
cause it's convenient.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
What's your the best piece of advice you received on
deal making or running a business?
Speaker 4 (45:35):
It's not right or wrong. It's handle and cut your
wrong short and let your rights run long.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
What's the worst advice you've been given.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
I'd say it's from bankers, either on one side anxious
to loan the money or on another side being a
little reluctant to buy in the My idea.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
What's the deal you wish you had done?
Speaker 4 (46:03):
You know, I thought the Minnesota Vikings when Red McCombs
bought them, I thought that was the equivalent of not
far back. But that was like buying a fifty thousand
dollars house on a five hundred thousand dollars block full
of houses. I thought, I is there any way to
(46:25):
involve that with a family or a friend. And of
course they've ended up with some great ownership, but that
was for me at that time, the best deal I'd
seen on the street, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
In sport, what's more stressful the fourth quarter of a
playoff game or the final round of a negotiation?
Speaker 4 (46:43):
Oh? I think that playoff game is what it's all about.
I know a lot of people say Jerry's interested in
the interested in the values, and he's interested in the financial.
It was always about getting a chance to come in
here and do those things that let you get to
maybe have a chance for a world championship. And that's primary.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
What's your hype song before you go into a big
meeting or a big negotiation.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
I wanna be sweet here hard times?
Speaker 2 (47:20):
There you go, there you go, you can only watch
one sport other than football for the rest of your life.
What is it?
Speaker 4 (47:25):
Oh, baseball, it's my favorite. There you go. And that's
not because he's sitting it at all, all right.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
So we usually ask what's one team you want to
win a Super Bowl championship? So I'm gonna avoid that.
My question is, what's the first thing you're gonna do
when you win your next championship? And I'm gonna add this,
and can I come along?
Speaker 4 (47:46):
I'm gonna make a victory tour. And this day in time,
with social media and everything, it'll be quite a victory tour.
And let me say this, every time I make a
decision with the Cowboys, a little image pops up about
what you're going to do when you're holding the trophies
right there, and you will.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
We look forward to seeing you holding that Sunday soon.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Anamazarakis, Stacy Wong, Lizzie Phillip,
and Eden Martinez. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples
Manuel Lopez Kina was our sound operator. Our booker is
(48:37):
Paige Keffer. David E. Ravella is our managing editor. Our
executive producers are Jason Kelly, Amy Keen, Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn,
Regina Delia, Kelly Laferrier, and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is
our head of podcasts special thanks to Rachel Carnivale, Elana
(48:59):
sas X Angels and Nick Silva. Joshua Devaux is our
director of photography. Rhubob Shakir is our creative director. Art
direction is from Jacqueline Kessler. Camera operation by Ryan Cavtero,
e j Enriquez and April Kirby. Our gaffer is Mike Spicer,
and our grip is Eric tresciak Tony Yay is our
(49:22):
production assistant. Alex Diacanis is our video editor, and Will
Connolly is our assistant editor. You can listen to the
Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also tune into the video Companion on Bloomberg
Originals and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.
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