August 28, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly talk about Bryce Underwood's $12.5M NIL deal. Then, they speak with Laura Correnti about how she came to found Deep Blue Sports + Entertainment, the first firm dedicated to commercial investment and growth opportunities in women's sports. Correnti tells the hosts how the U.S. Women's National Soccer Team inspired her to start her business, why she’s torn up her five-year plan so many times amidst the growth of women’s sports, and what needs to be done to create more “multi-hyphenates” amongst female athletes.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back to the Deal. I'm your host, Jason Kelly,
alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. Coming up on the show,
we have Laura Carenti, she's the founder and CEO of
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment, talking all about the business
of women's sports. But before we get to that, Alex,
were rolling into Labor Day weekend. We're going to get
some rest because it's going to be busy next week.
(00:33):
We'll get to that in a second. It also puts
me in the mindset of college football. As you know,
you've got to know me pretty well with the last
couple of years. I love college football. I just I
can't get enough of it, and I'm so excited for
this season. You're probably pretty excited, not just because University
of Miami I think is going to be pretty good,
but your Daughta goes to University of Michigan. They have
(00:55):
a quarterback that they are paying, wait for it, twelve
and a half million dollars. What is going on? I mean,
when you see something like that, what's your reaction?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, first of all, I have a follow up question,
is that for one year or for all four years.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's for four years. It's spread across.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, Jason, if you told me this five years ago,
I would have called BS.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Like, there's no way.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I mean, some of these guys are going to take
pay cuts when they go into the NFL. If they
get into the NFL. It's just remarkable the amount of interest.
And just like you and I love college, so do
a lot of wealthy people that want to, you know,
follow up under Alma Mato exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So that is largely funded by Larry Ellison and his family.
His wife went to University of Michigan. And what's so
interesting about this story to me as well is, as
you very well know, Michigan obviously stalwart of the Big Ten.
This is a quarterback, Bryce Underwood, who was originally going
to LSU. Brian Kelly obviously the coach they are well
known from coaching Notre Dame LSU, you know, a stalwart
(01:58):
in its own right of the SEC. Michigan comes in
and basically says, oh, you're gonna pay him like a million,
million and a half. That's adorable. We're gonna up the
ante and we're gonna pay him a total package of
twelve and a half million dollars. Now, I can't imagine
he's gonna be there for four years, so we'll see
what that net payout means to be. But that's sort
of a baseline of what he's gonna get paid because
(02:18):
he's probably got other other deals coming in. NIL has
completely changed everything and a nice segue. That's my job
is to find these connections between these things. We're gonna
be really busy next week because here in New York,
you're gonna be here. We're taping several episodes of the
deal that you'll see later the season, but we're gonna
be live on stage at Power Players. This is an
(02:40):
annual event that we host here at Bloomberg Headquarters in
New York. NIL in college Sports is going to be
one of the things we're going to talk about. We're
gonna have the athletic directors of UCLA, Duke, and Ohio
State all on stage together talking about the business of
college sports. So you're gonna be interested in that, if
only to see what Ohio State has to say for
your but your no beloved Wolverines. But I'm so excited
(03:02):
to see you. It's gonna be a baller day.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
It's gonna be awesome, and the fact that we're going
to do three shows back to back to back is awesome.
And Bloomberg always attracts the best of the best audience,
and I cannot wait not only for who's going to
be on the panels, but who's actually there watching, which
is always a stellar, stellar crew.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, it's a very deal deal friendly crew that's going
to be there. A lot of leaders in business and sports.
And just to go through some of the folks that
we're going to see throughout the course of the day,
some familiar faces from the Deal Cinematic universe, starting off
with Maria Sharapova. She was our first guest on this show.
She was the premiere episode. She's going to be in
conversation with our colleague of sorts and your fellow sports
(03:44):
owner David Rubinstein. I'm gonna sit down with Tom Garfinkel,
the CEO of the Dolphins in the Miami F One
Grand Prix, alongside Mike Arraghetti, someone you know well, obviously
the CEO of Aries. They were one of the first
private equity investors to go into the NFL. There's going
to be lots of other conversations Gary Bettman and a
(04:06):
NHL commissioner. Another familiar deal guest, ted leonsis he's going
to be joining us as well. And do you want
to reveal who are our deal guest is going to be?
It is a fellow New York champion who I know
you're very excited to see.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yes, Justin tuk and I'm so excited to talk to him.
I mean, he's had a phenomenal career. He's only forty two.
And guess what some of his places he's been at
Notre Dame were in business school, the Giants and gold
Mis Sachs. We cannot wait to unpack a lot of
great conversations.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, I'm not sure people know this. I mean, if
you know, you know kind of thing here Justin tuckson,
managing director at Coleman Sachs. I mean, which is wild.
As you say, you love to talk about blue chip names.
He is blue chip across the board. You know. Obviously,
as you said, played at one of the pre eminent
institutions in college football, the only truly like independent champion
(04:58):
college football program out there, the Irish. They are one
of one when it comes to that. And obviously the
lineage of the players who came out of there, but
the idea that he went to work on Wall Street.
Coming out of that, he's invested in companies like Roan
and just so much to talk to Hm about. Also,
you know this and I know this because we both
know he's also such a good dude. Like I'm just
(05:18):
excited to share a stage, and I have to say,
people are going to lose it when he comes in.
He won two Super Bowls in New York.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Well, that's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I mean, you beat me to it.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
But when you say one of one, so is justin talk.
I mean, in fact, he's a two time world champion
in New York City. The first forty two years have
been phenomenal. I'm more interested in what happens in the
next forty two years. And we will ask him that.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, so so much going on next week. If you're
in New York, you know, see if you can join
us live or you know, watch on Bloomberg TV. It'll
be on Bloomberg Radio. You and I will be making
the rounds. Lots of fun people who are going to
be here in the building with us, on stage, backstage,
in the audience. As you say, so power players. We
always do it to tie it into the US Open,
(06:00):
and really excited to be with you. And as you say,
we've got a couple other episodes that'll be coming down
the pike that we'll be taping here when you're here
back home in New York. All right, coming up Laura Karrenti.
She is the founder and CEO of Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. Next on the Deal. Welcome back to the Deal.
(06:29):
I'm Jason Kelly along aside Alex Rodriguez here in New York.
We're so excited to have with us Laura Krenty, of course,
the CEO and founder of Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Elsie,
great to see you. You're a podcaster yourself, So you
come ready to play?
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I know, always ready to play, boss. Do you stay ready?
You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Get ready exactly exactly. So, you and I have known
each other for a few years as I got deeper
and deeper into the sports world and the intersection of business,
sports and culture. And you've gone all in on women's sports,
you know, Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You've got a
roster of incredible partners, sponsors, etc. I want to jump
right in. What was the moment that you decided to
(07:11):
go all in on women's sports.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Sure, well, I think just for backstory and context, because
this wasn't a bandwagon fans situation. Really, there was a
pinnacle moment in twenty nineteen when the US women's national
team won their fourth World Cup in France, and at
the very end of that game, when they're hoisting the trophy,
the crowd breaks out and a chance of equal pay
instead of USA. And that was the same year that
(07:35):
a number of players from the national team had sued
their employer in US Soccer and one in achieving that
equal pay status. And I remember very vividly sitting at
the Jersey shore as one does, watching this match and
seeing all the commentators and broadcasters and even the social
media started to light up, saying, we haven't seen this
kind of momentum since ninety nine, So now you're talking
(07:56):
twenty years forward in terms of this level of excitement,
enthusiasm and support for this team.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
But it was really larger than the team.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
It was for the women's sports ecosystem at large.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
And in that moment, Jason, I go.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
To the NWSL website and if you scroll to the
very bottom of that website, in twenty nineteen, which I
did on that day, which was July seventh. There were
four partners to the league at that point, so Nike
had the Kits lifetime, The Women's Cable Network was the
media rights distributor at that point, thor In, the supplement's company,
and A Long Care Service was the fourth. And as
somebody who had grown up in the advertising industry predominantly
(08:29):
as a media buyer, you know very well what makes
this industry go round, right, And that's not just the
media rights, it's also the advertisers who support it. And
I knew in that moment, while appreciative of those advertisers
and partners knowing critical to just have a league in play,
it was certainly not going to be enough to meet
this moment, and so I started to dig in and
it really was a multi year journey to realize that.
(08:52):
Fast forward into twenty twenty three when I decided to
go full throttle. This wasn't a product issue that team
in particular had been dominant for decades.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
This wasn't for lack of storytelling.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
These athletes were so multi dimensional and haven't had the
opportunity to tell their stories on the field, let alone
off of it, and it said again, as somebody who
had been a buyer, I recognized in that moment, just
as a microcosmic example, you know, women's sports, to get
nerdy with it for a second, were being sold on
the same currency and measured on the same metrics that
(09:23):
men's sports were, and that was largely based on reach.
And even in twenty twenty three, outside of these current
broadcast deals that have just been negotiated METEA Wites deals,
women's sports hadn't been mainstream, let alone put into an
appointment viewing position, primetime positioning, et cetera, and so forth
in order to be sold, let alone transacted and measured
on that same metric. And so you start to realize
(09:44):
this is a system's issue, and leveraging twenty plus years
in the ad business, coupled with having played through the
collegiate level, paired these two skill sets and said we're
off to the racis yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
And it's funny too, because you do. Fast forward to
twenty twenty five and I'm sitting here in New York
City alongside the owner and governor of the Minnesota Lynx,
who I think it's fair to say, Alex, you have
very quickly gotten religion around the economic power of women's sports.
So tell me, like how you come to it and
(10:16):
sort of how you come to this conversation.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Well, I come from Laura, from a very humble and
trying to really educate myself into space because it's like none.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
That I've ever studied or seen.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And just to give an example, when you look at
the Timboleves and the Lynx, the crossover is single digits.
It's somewhere on eight or nine percent on our fan base,
which to me was like extraordinarily surprising. I would have
probably handicapped it like probably forty or fifty percent, but
it's not. It's it's on eight or nine percent. But
I guess, Laura, my question for you as I kind
of I'm in my education early in my education journey
(10:51):
with a WNBA, and I'm so excited about it with
my partner Mark LORII. What should we be thinking about
and what are the people like Clara's a great example
from the Liberty Clara was high yeahs, who's really the goat?
I mean, she's really done in incredible. What should we
be thinking about? What are great owners that Clara doing?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Full disclosure, You're a huge Liberty fan.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I'm a women's sports fan, but as a Jersey girl,
I support all of the local teams. So yes, I
am a huge Liberty fan. But in order to see
the industry succeed, the whole pie has to. And just
to answer your question, Alex, I think when you look
at what a team like the Liberty has been able
to achieve off the back of and sorry to say this,
their last championship where they defeated the Links and the
(11:34):
trajectory of advertisers and net new revenue. They've been able
to bring in not just from ticket sales and merchandise
which are double triple digit LYFT, but also just sponsorship deals.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's been fascinating to see.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
When I started the business in twenty twenty three, fast
forward twenty twenty five. I mean we're not even two
full years in yet. At Deep Blue, the initial conversations
were all just about recognition of the space. Now we're
in an instance where or a situation in chapter where
we need to write side the business case, and so
I'll give you an example and I'll take us out
of the w but I think it's a pertinent one.
(12:04):
Some data just came out around the NWSL's commercial sponsorship
revenue in twenty twenty four, which achieved seventy five million
dollars and AD revenue that is up sixteen percent from
twenty twenty two, so growing, not exponentially in the ways
we've seen some other numbers, but.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Still double digit lift.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yet when you look at those numbers, there is a
glaring issue with respect to the annual average value of
those partnerships. So seventy five million dollars came in across
four hundred and forty one partners. The reason I told
you that story about when I looked into the league
in twenty nineteen, we're up from four partners to four
hundred and forty one partners in that span. But if
(12:44):
you divide those numbers, you're talking an average net value
of one hundred and seventy thousand dollars. This is where
I see the gap in terms of how do you
start right sizing it? And so then you dig in
and you start saying, Okay, of that seventy five million,
three clubs generated forty six percent of that Angel City
the current in Kansas City and San Diego. So then
(13:06):
you're like, okay, the average probably at the bottom half
of that table what are we really talking about five
figure deals? How do you grow at the rate in
which the market is demanding? And so these are where
we start talking about right sizing and to do that,
you know, we've been really working on. Okay, start making
the business case in apples to Apple scenarios and when
you start comparing it to men's so you'll appreciate this,
I think particularly Alex A thirty second spot in the
(13:27):
MLB World Series over the last few years has averaged
four hundred and fifty to five hundred and fifty thousand
dollars per thirty second advertising spot. That means that one
hundred and seventy thousand dollars I can acquire the rights
to work with a team for an eight month plus
season at the same rate I can buy at a
quarter and eighth in some instances what I'm buying a
thirty second spot in the World Series.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So you start to put.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Those comparisons together, I mean, and then you get into
things like, Okay, a Super Bowl spot you know last
year alone was seven to eight million. You come in
into a league with a seven to eight million dollar check,
you could own the whole damn pie. So these are
the sort of rois and comparisons, and we've been talking
about getting in now, but I think this expression of
focusing on how cheap it is, and I hate to
(14:12):
use that word, but the entry point as opposed to
the ROI and what you can actually achieve in value
at this stage of growth is something that I think
the market is missing.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And so tell us about some of the brands that
are coming in. You know, there are some household names
that you've worked with, you know, whether it's ally financial, mass,
mutual others. But I'm sure you look around the target center,
Alex and you know, I watch these games on TV
and you are starting to see really big names come in.
(14:44):
What's the case as you're sort of cutting these deals
because you were in a very trusted intermediary between all
of this and you're making these deals happen. What's the
case you're making that resonates the most to the potential sponsors.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I mean, it's just what we talked about, the value
exchange and the return you're going to get for the
investment that you're putting in. And when you start again
right sizing in comparison to where these media buyers on
behalf of brands or the brands themselves are investing their
media and sponsorship dollars. You'd be hard pressed to make
a case where the WNBA, for example, last year in
twenty twenty four, so an average of thirteen x on
(15:18):
the investments brands made as league officials.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I don't have to tell you.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Guys at Bloomberg that type of return and an investment
in one year.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
It's significant.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And so you know when you talk about an Ally Financial,
you know ALLI Financial is a first mover in the space.
They came out into the market a couple years ago.
What I think they don't get enough credit for but
a very bold, audacious, perhaps ahead of its time, but
certainly a catalyst commitment, which was saying, you know, we're
going to initiate this fifty to fifty pledge for every
dollar we spend in men's sports, we're going to put
into women's sports within a certain period of time, a real, tangible,
(15:47):
measurable goal. Well, they get into the space and they
recognize there's not enough inventory to actually even meet their
own goals. So now you start recognizing your role as
an advertiser is not just to invest in the market.
We actually have to create the market. We need to
invest in, and so I think Ally has done an
incredible job of showing up in places like not just
(16:09):
becoming league officials for the NWSL and the PA. There
now a league official for the WNBA, showing up in
places like unrivaled, investing in niche media properties like Tobinheath
and Kristen Press's reinc investing into the whole ecosystem so
that there is enough for advertisers who need to achieve
scale in many instances to justify the media investments they're making,
(16:30):
to able to come back and say, Okay, I could
put X in with X return, because many of them say,
this isn't charity. They're not doing this as a check
the box anymore. This is a really viable market. But
the media ecosystem, coupled with the team league athlete ecosystem
has to mature in terms of its accessibility and availability
of inventory for these advertisers to make the business case.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Laura, I'm want to just take it like one step deeper.
We talked a little bit about the links. Take someone
like Nafisia Collier, who is a historic player who could
very well be the MVP this year. She's a great
business entrepreneur. How should we be thinking about positioning her
in the market, and do you position her parallel to
the links or completely separate?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
That's a yes, And I think the value obviously she
brings to your organization is like none other, you know,
as you said, a legacy player who stands on her own.
And at the same time, I think she demonstrates what
is the best of women's sports, which probably has been
one of the most undervalued, which she's a multi hyphenate.
This is a woman who's an entrepreneur and starting Unrivaled,
had the ambition and went out and created it, stood
(17:35):
it up, proved the business model.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
You know. I just was reading the.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Other day how they're expected to give increases to the
players in Unrivaled in just year two for their salaries
because they overachieved or hit every single metric that they
set out to do in year one, which is not
easy to do in sports, as we know. I love
seeing the ads that she's in right now with care
dot Com, emphasizing her role as a parent and a
(17:58):
mom and bringing that dimension to the space. And so
when I look at some of the stars of the
w I think, yes, we owe them more coverage. With
respect to their stats and score lines and all the
incredible things they're doing on the court. But we also
know there's a casual fan base out there that we've
yet to even scratch the surface on that isn't just
coming to watch the w for the on court competition.
(18:20):
They're coming because these are moms, these are fashion icons,
these are entrepreneurs, they're recording artists. I mean, you could
go down the list of all of the and ones
that these athletes are and have had to do, largely
because prior to the moment we're in, they didn't have
a choice, right, many of them had to be able
to make ends meet, whether playing overseas or starting businesses,
(18:41):
just to be able to justify the means of being
professional athletes.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, so let's talk about that multi hyphen aspect, because
you know, I'm sitting next to one here, and part
of the reason this show exists is because of Alex's
own ambition, and the three of us all know that
that's not a given for every athlete, like it takes
a special athlete to take that extra step or those
multiple extra steps. We've had several people, several of those
(19:07):
multi hyphenates who've been on this show recently Alison Felix,
who I know is a recent business partner of yours,
super Bird, who's a longtime business partner of hers. So
help us understand that and maybe start with Sue because
I know you've been working with her for a long time. Again,
she sat on set with us and sort of walked
us through her journey. How did you guys get together
and what is it about her and your partnership that
(19:30):
you can describe?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Sure, it was a very serendipitous opportunity for us to connect,
which was around an industry event prior to launching Deep Blue,
and as I was getting into the operational side of
how we were going to make the business case to advertisers.
You know, I can come all day with the receipts
of the things I've been able to develop in my
career as a brand builder, an ad buyer, activation creator, etc.
(19:54):
But there was a key piece that was missing and
I was noticing in every room I was going into,
was that first person athlete person effective? Now in men's sports,
it's relatively known because we have documentaries, we've heard the stories,
we have the first person point of view, and ongoing
press conferences pregame shows, postgame coverage, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Women's sports not the case.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And so what I found to be interesting was when,
you know, you would talk to advertisers and in some
instances agencies in the year plus of you know, research
and diligence we were doing prior to deciding to go
all in, and I started recognizing, for example, you'd walk
into meet with a brand whose creative agency was developing
the brief, the strategy all the way through to execution
(20:33):
of an ad campaign for example, that was meant to
either feature and or run in and around women's sports.
The creators behind those ads more often than not had
never watched a women's sports let alone been to a
women's sports game, experience, whatever the case may be. So
how can you authentically connect with an audience, let alone
(20:54):
tell a story if you haven't had that experience. And
so this perspective was what that was missing, And serendipitously
got connected with Sue. This was just on the heels
of her retirement, obviously an illustrious goat certified career, but
also this was not at the time when basketball had
taken off yet, it was this in between period, and
we started talking about the work that she was doing,
(21:15):
and I think it really piqued her curiosity to know
not just the level of storytelling that goes out, but
more importantly, if nobody sees the story, there's no promotion
or tune into the story, which was a side of
the coin I was playing on. That story you're telling
is a moot point. So this ability to have a
hand and put her fingerprints, I think, on end to
end was appealing. I will tell you when we decided
(21:36):
to link up. I announced the company in December of
twenty three. I have great text receipts for a book.
Someday people tell me it was absolutely out of my mind, Lauren,
nobody cares about women's sports. I mean a lot of
expletives in between. I announced Sue in January twenty four.
Now the sudden people stand up a little straight or
wait a minute, we haven't seen this on the women's
side the same way we've seen you know, Alex, you
and your peers linking up with entrepreneurs business executives to
(22:00):
launch and build companies. It was relatively not done. And
fast forward April of twenty four, Caitlin Clark meets Angel
Reese in that Final four and the rest was history.
Not only did Sue's time become very limited, she became
very busy because obviously lightning in a bottle moment for her,
which I'm so excited for and glad to see that
(22:20):
she's gotten opportunities to weigh in on, but ever so
more important to have her perspective as well as other
athletes we work with at the table talking to advertisers
in a way that there's no amount of field research
you can do when you want to put out an
Olympic campaign spot focused around team USA women's basketball and
not have super Bird's opinion at the day.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
You can't compare these things.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I mean, her five gold medals, yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Not one, so I know you keep counting them, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I mean, it's been a tremendous competitive advantage for Deep Blue,
but also a tremendous competitive advantage for the market to
have athletes like Sue Bird and others who are assuming
business positions and able to inform and just make the
whole industry smarter about the true experience of what they've lived.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Laura, I love the space that you're navigating in as
a father to two teenage daughters. It really excites me
that people like you that are so capable are really
expanding the footprint of women's sports. A question about Deep Blue.
You found it two years ago. Have you thought about
your five year plan and inside that five year plan
(23:34):
can you see Deep Blue being NLP or a GP
owner to a sports franchise.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
So it's so funny, Alex.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
When we started the company, we had a five year
plan which went from twenty three to LA twenty eight.
We were going to look at that five year window
up until the Olympics in the US. I think within
the first six months I probably ripped that plan up
two or three times because the market was just electric
and the opportunities that were presenting itself were coming at
a rate where like no plan on paper made sense
(24:02):
because you're just constantly having to hit the edit butt in.
But the true nature of it two years in is
recognizing that, first of all, sports is not the output
for me, it's the vehicle and how do you thread
and take this deep subject matter expertise at the intersection
of media, marketing, advertising and women's sports to move horizontally,
not just vertically. So agency services, so to speak, was
(24:22):
our trojan horse in our primary customer was to work
with brands to make them smarter, help them understand the
space right, size the investments that they were making, and
help extrapolate incremental value. We've done that, as Jason alluded to,
for some world class blue chip brands who are early
and then some who have been new. For example, I
just brokeer to deal just within the last few months
between Vagicil and the New York Liberty talking about body confidence.
(24:46):
They had never invested in the world of women's sports before.
So a lot of netnew comers as well. But as
you pick your head up, I'd be remiss not to say, like,
that's just the entry point things like IP development. This
is something we're very excited about. We saw an opening
for the lack of content creation. You know, less than
fifteen percent of coverage today still in the world of
sports goes to women's sports, and that's where you start
(25:08):
to sacrifice the storytelling that is missing, and so we
decided to go all in with iHeart to develop iHeart
Women's Sports, which in less than two years has over
sixteen original pods in the space, covering a variety of
sports from both former athletes, broadcasters, talent, et cetera. It's
still to this day containing the only official women's daily
(25:29):
podcast called Good Game with Sarah Spain with a former
ESPN broadcaster slash journalist. And so we started looking at
the IP creation. Okay, what comes off of this? You
start thinking about the world of commerce, you know, you
start thinking about live events. For three years running now
we've hosted the Business Women's Sports Summer in New York
City in the spring, and an initiative that first started
(25:49):
as like if they build it, will they come. But
it is a convening ground where it is the only
space in the world as far as we're aware, where
the intersection of business and women's ports or comes together.
So you start creating all of these products and assets.
So IPE live events definitely interesting to us. Getting in
and around the world of commerce interesting to us. And
then the last frontier is a venture we are learning
(26:12):
so much in real time. I see a world where
Deep Blue owns teams. I see a world where Deep
Blue starts collecting assets and ultimately being the grounding center
all through the lens of that subject matter expertise.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I want to go a little deeper on this ownership piece, Laura,
because obviously very interesting to my partner here this notion
of ownership, and I do wonder how you see that developing,
not just from the deep blue perspective, but in these
conversations that you have with partners like super Bird because
(26:45):
ownership and again I'm sitting beside an example of it,
that the athlete to owner transition is becoming much better
trid for lack of a better term. How do you
see that developing and how does that play into your
business model?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Sure, I mean I think again it goes to a yes,
and the strategic value of an Alex Rodriguez or a
superd sitting in an ownership position to be able to
provide a point of view that reflects the players that
you know, reflects the training facilities resource needs to develop.
On field excellence is paramount, There's no doubt about it.
(27:21):
And I don't know how you can actually replicate that
if you hadn't played it at that level. And also
one of the things that I'm seeing, especially in the
world of women's sports, is it is a gold rush
and there are a number of you know, investors of
all kinds, family offices all the way through to pev
you know, venture et cetera coming in and around the space.
(27:41):
We cannot apply the men's playbook to women's sports full stop.
And I think there is and Alex, I appreciate you
saying this a real need for education on who the
audience is really understanding the fan experience. Alex, I don't
know if you've had a chance to go see a
New York Liberty game.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
I haven't been to see the Links live.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
You've seen them in Liberty, But this game day experience
and the audience that it is super serving, there is
nothing like it in sports period.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
And if you can't.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Understand the distinctions around that, I think you really handicap
growth a small microcosm and thinking about facilities and stadium development,
and this is an area I'm fascinated by. I was
at a Washington Spirit match against Gotham in Washington, d C.
At Audyfield and actually took a picture of this moment.
I was going up the escalator and there was a
whole section of strollers stroller parking. It wasn't a formal
(28:32):
official place. Now there was a third party vendor that
was supporting that, you know, sort of parking and go.
But when you start thinking about you know, mother rooms
having espresso martiniz on tap. I mean, I could go
down the list of things that when you start really
thinking about the nuances and experience, how owners can get
in and around the world of branding, media, marketing, influencers, creators,
(28:54):
game day experience through experiential activation. We're no longer talking
about a playbook we all know and grew up on.
This is developing for a modern audience and a modern experience.
And so I would encourage owners coming into this space
to not be presumptive and really get in and under
the hood, because I think the ability to derive incremental
value by getting outside of the box of the thing
(29:16):
we all know and love is only going to increase
the evaluations.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Lord, this reminds me a little bit when you think
about Deep Blue, it reminds me a little bit of
you know, Baine consulting in Mitt Robney, and Mitt was
going to leave to start his own private equity group.
And what they realized was, wait a minute, we're consulting,
We have all the data, we bring, all the value,
we understand where the puck is going. Why are we
going to let such a great talent mid Rodney go?
(29:40):
Why not start being capital and then the birth of
basically being private equity started. I mean, you're collecting all
the data. You're really in a position of strength. I
can't think of anyone who could be a dial or
an Arctos, and you're well positioned in women's sports to
bring tremendous amount of value.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Thank you appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I actually was reading about your new venture and Jump
and the amount of capital that you've obviously raised.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Our congratulations.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
And you know what I'm so enamored by is this
full three sixty where you own the data. This is
another area when you get into the world of women's
sports that has been such an impediment to growth. So
just as a microcosmic example, you look at im a
Gotham season ticket holder. Now outside of the Kansas City current,
every women's sports team in the United States, regardless of sport,
(30:28):
is renting or leasing their facility from a men's team
or some other provider.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Right they do not own the space.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And I always think about it going through the turnstiles
at Red Bull Arena and now Sports Illustrated Arena. How
the trickle effect and what delays that can create for
an organization when you don't have real time, access to
who's coming through the turnstyle, what they're buying at concessions,
what the merchandise flow is, and not having that as
a collective to then turn around Alex you're talking about
(30:54):
as an owner and going out to advertisers. Advertisers want
the data, and they don't want yesterday's they want days.
They want to be able to have real time informed
decision making. And so by creating a platform like Jump,
from my understanding, it will have everything from ticket sales
all the way through merchandising in one platform. This will
help in my opinions and not only expedite deal flow,
(31:14):
but also increase it. And I think that's something again
as a media buyer for twenty years, I look at
clients want data, brand marketers want data.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
I want to say clients.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
The women's sports industry largely has not had it, and
I think that has been a tremendous discservice and why
we're seeing one hundred and seventy thousand dollars deals because
you really have nothing to bet on and everybody reports
to somebody, right, and so at the end of the
day to make these decisions, you have to be able
to justify this and like I said, we're not in
the checkbox era anymore.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
We need real tangible results.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
You know, what are the areas Laura that you know
you and I have talked about this. I think we
actually talked about it on our panel that the Business
Women's Sports Summit, the media deal side, you know, media rights,
et cetera. I know you've looked at this intensely and
obviously a lot of that plays directly into what your
clients want and expect and what the leagues want, what
(32:06):
the teams want. It plays into valuations. As alex Well
knows what happens next when it comes to media rights
for the big women's.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Sports, this will be a hot take.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I care less about the total number, more about the
experience today, and what I mean by that is seeing
a number of leagues chase very, very high numbers, which
again I understand the reason the business case sport of directors,
you know, needs for the leagues, etc. But in doing so,
and often cases, we're fragmenting games across four or five
(32:37):
plus networks, and you're taking audiences that are already nascent
and still in their formative years. And I'm talking, you know,
high six figures, low seven at best, and now you're
splintering them across five networks. Women's sports offers from two
main issues. They're hard to find and they're hard to buy.
We talked about the buying piece, I'll talk about the
finding piece. It's been fascinating to see this moment play
(32:59):
out because everybody so excited by the multiples, but people
not recognizing you're disrupting the audience experience. People don't know
where to find half of these games. I mean, you
need a master calendar that would stretch my dining room
table just to understand what to do this weekend. I
don't think that's a good service model for your fans.
They're frustrated. You see them take it out in real
time on social media. They're often helping each other figure
(33:21):
out how to find it. And two, if you really
think about it, in some instances, there are leagues with
five distribution partners, which means you're creating five different rate
cards for advertising, five different commercial products, five different game
day experiences, and you're going to the same five advertisers
asking them for the same five deals.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And so this is a part where you know, I
can understand why the MLB, the NFL. They have the luxury, right,
You're talking tens of millions of people tuning in over
how many decades.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
It's a fine tune machine.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Women's sports is not there yet, and so when I
look at those deals, I'm like, how do we streamline
both the efficacy of finding it, but then you have
to think about making it more efficient for advertisers to
participate in it.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Laura, this is not a struggle or a challenge that
is exclusively for WNBA or women's sports. I recently got
a call from my mother who's eighty nine. Okay, that's
a different demographic, but she still watches the Yankees game
every night. I mean that kind of I loves her
bad and she loves she loves her Yankees.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
She's very frustrated right now. They're hard to love right now.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
She wants to to answer all the questions that my mom.
I don't have other I'm not watching as closely as
I have the timbos and the links. I'm sorry, but
in one week, Laura, there was a six different telecast.
We had a Yes Network, we had Apple TV, we
had Gotham, we had Fox, we had Ruku, and then
we had ESPN Sunday Night Baseball and Fox of course
was Saturday. And my Mom's like, where in the world
(34:47):
do I find these apps? Can we go back to
the old days and just turn on the Yes Network?
And I said, no, Mom, those days are over. But
that just gives you a little example of it's hard
to find and hard to buy, right.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
And you know it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I just saw literally a work that came out around
if you want to be an NFL fan this year
and watch the entire season. I forget how many there were.
I believe it was something like a thousand to eleven
hundred dollars worth of subscriptions just to be able to
watch the full season as a fan.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Right now, I love football, but I'm a Jets fan.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
So that's a big commitment when you've been on the
losing side, Like you're alone.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I hate yourself. If you're a Jets fan.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
You Jets and Mets? Is that usually how it works?
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Jets Yankees? This is unconventional.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
I know, I know, I know, I blame my husband,
but I confer to me it's the Jets lawyer for you.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
No.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I mean, you know, New Yorker fans are right or die,
But you know, when you start talking about for you know,
the average consumer eleven hundred dollars worth of subscriptions come
on and you know then and then you look at
the women's sports space, it's not much far behind in
terms of the amount of you know, if you want
to be a w fan and an NWSL fan, I mean,
how many platforms do you need? And so I think
(35:54):
this is where we're at at a very interesting inflection
point in media. The streamers are running up the or
board in terms of price and having the disposable cash
to be able to put up these types of deals.
But at some point there has to be a convening
of the powers that be that recognize you are fragmenting
and diluting the value of your league.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I did mention something earlier that I wanted to sort
of circle back on, which is the deal that you
did with Always Alpha and Alison Felix, Always Alpha being
the talent management company that she started. Help us understand
sort of what you're doing there, because this notion of
managing talent is a fascinating one. It's one you have
a lot of windows into. It goes back to something
(36:34):
you know you've been talking about when it comes to
you know, athletes like Alex, like Sue and others who
just have so much to offer, tell us about that
deal and sort of how it came about it and
what the vision is there.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Very vividly remember one of my colleagues calling me saying
that they had heard some rumblings that another women's sports
firm was coming into the space. Now, at this point
in the early twenty twenty four, we were still the
only I mean now, obviously the big talent agencies had
women's sports services, but in terms of dedicated no, and
it was going to focus on talent. And there was
this immediate rush of those inside the women's sports business bubble,
(37:09):
which wasn't still relatively niche, who immediately want to pit
you against each other.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
Right, They're like, there could only be one.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
But what was interesting was the skill set that we
had and the business model we were running was complimentary
to what Allison and her business partners Cassette and West,
were after in that they were going to focus hyper
focus on managing the careers of female athletes exclusively. I
was not in the business of managing anyone. We were
in the business of managing deal flow, and so when
you looked at the opportunity. You know, there are a
(37:37):
couple of things that I started thinking about. You control
the money, you control the market, You have input and
partnership with the athletes, You have the influence. So this
became a really interesting proposition to me to say, hey,
wait a minute, we already have a great vantage point
into where all the money is flowing. But if we
can now bolt on the influence and the incremental earned
(37:58):
value of what these athletes can generate and how they
are dictating the marketplace, you've cornered the market lights out.
And a series of conversations and meetings ensued and got
to talking about the unique nature of bringing these two
and at that point only focused companies in the world
of women's sports.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
And it was as simple as a handshake and the.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Value exchange there in the joint venture that we created
between Deep Blue and Always Alpha was Always Alpha was
going to manage the talent all the ways that you
would anticipate talent management firm supporting its clients, and we
were going to bring this added layer of strategic expertise
and industry knowledge to help shape an athlete's platform. To
think about brand strategy, you can't just I mean, Alex,
(38:39):
I'd be curious to get your perspective on this. Like
we are no longer in the day of just playing
the sport. I mean there's very few people you talking
about just playing the sport. You have to be able
to dimensionalize this female athletes times ten, and so to
be able to provide that level of insight, knowledge, expertise
what we were seeing in the market while also developing
that as athletes, as ip, all of a sudden, you
(39:00):
have a tremendous competitive vantage because it's not about transaction anymore.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
It's about transformation yea.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
And we were very focused on working with the athletes
to say, this moment that you're in in your playing career,
because they're predominantly working with a lot of active athletes,
let this be the vehicle.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
This is not the endgame.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
And so as early as we can start getting in
and thinking about, yes, you may be a peloton instructor
crushing the leader board or you know, world class runner
who's out there breaking records. How are we using this
moment and this platform both the world and what it's
providing us and coverage also your social channels, how you're
showing up in the market, et cetera, to start to
(39:37):
build the tentacles and what will become your multi hyphen business.
So that added component helps to supercharge and I think
pay off on you know what you even asked earlier
on what owners can do it. It's bringing that level
of strategy well beyond the transactional nature of it.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
It is funny, Alex to think about this idea that
you were following in the footsteps of like Magic Johnson,
but there weren't a lot of people that emulated. Now,
it feels like, especially in the age of nil and
everything else, if you're not thinking about your brand, if
you're not thinking about yourself as a multi hyphen it,
you're actually the outlier versus when it was when you
(40:15):
were coming up. Do you think that's true?
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Oh yeah, I mean, look, just twenty five years ago,
I signed at that point the largest contract in the
history of sports for ten years, two hundred and fifty
two million dollars Tom Hickstonner the Text Rangers, and before
that I had been in the league for six years.
I was twenty four years old. That entered as an
eighteen year old teenager, and I became immediately public enemy
(40:37):
Number one because of that contract. And when you fast
forward twenty five years and you see Shoheo Tania seven
hundred and he becomes literally a hero and an icon.
That brings a smile to my face because there's an
amazing shift that's gone on. At that point in twenty
twenty one, the team had all the power. They controlled
the media, they controlled the narrative. We didn't have social thousand,
(40:58):
two thousand and one, sorry twenty four years ago. And
today that's shifted. Whether you talk about Nficia Collier or
you're talking about Anthony Edwards or Aaron Judge or Shohio Tani,
the player has much influence as the team, and they
have become truly our partners, and we work very well
with them together. It's my hope and dream that Major
League Baseball gets direct together and they can work more
(41:20):
collectively as a unit.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
If not more.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
If not more, I mean, we're a big believer in
individuals over institutions, and this is not unique to sport.
This is just the way modern media is moving. And
so I think, Alex you asked the question earlier about
NAFISA as a standalone versus NFISA as a bolt on
and I think the answer is yes. You know, I
think allowing her to develop that platform and also figuring
out how it develops the brand that is the links.
(41:44):
These two things in tandem are the superpower. Not to
take over your show, No, but I actually I do.
I have a question and a final thought, Alex. A question,
as somebody who signed the largest deal in the history
of baseball in your prime, when you look at the
world of win in sports today, what has been the
absolute head scratcher and how are you thinking about things
(42:05):
differently from that person you were in that deal twenty
five years ago to now applying those principles to a
market that, yes, fifty plus years old, but still relatively
junior with you know, it's professionalization.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Wow, that's a great question. I'd love some time to
think on that a little bit more. I'm a novice
in the space and I'm really enjoying it and I'm
really collecting a lot of data and talking to a
lot of smart people. But I do think that the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Is endless, totally, And I'd love to just leave you
with the final thought because you did allude to your daughters,
and I think you know it's easy to get caught
up in the short term ism of the moment that
we're living in a women's sports Although I like to
play the long game, I'm not just in this because
it's fun, it's exciting, it's all of those things, and
it's a net new industry to chase. What I really
want to leave your listeners with are the stakes of
(42:52):
what we're talking about. Forty five percent of girls are
dropping out of sport in the United States by the
age of fourteen, nearly one out of two, largely to
body confidence issues. What influences body confidence issues the media, marketing,
and advertising industries of which I'm a part of. And
so when you start to think about girls who play
becoming women who lead, ninety four percent of women in
(43:13):
the C suite have played sports at some point at
any point in their lives, and over fifty percent of
those collegiately. When you think about that drop off nearly
one out of two, and the social economic impact of
what is lost and potentially what could be gained as
a result of keeping girls in sport and what it
does for their development.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
That is why we're in this game.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
And I think one of the things that I am
so impressed by and continue to be inspired by on
a daily basis is to leave it better than we
found it. Mentality of the entire women's sports community, and
I think that that is something that cannot be lost. Yes,
the numbers will prove themselves out. Yes, there will be
a lot of people who make a lot of money
in this industry. But when you really think about the
long tail impact of what we're talking about, we're talking GDPs,
(43:57):
it's far greater than the short term valuation some media
orite steals we're seeing today.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
All Right, we're gonna do a lightning round and then
we'll let you get on with the rest of your day. Laura,
you've been very generous with your time. All right, five
questions will bounce it back and forth. First thing that
comes to your mind, you ready.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Go for it?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
All right? What's the best piece of advice you've received
on deal making or business?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
If you see a better way, you have an obligation
to do it. And that advice came from former General
Electric vice chair Beth Coomstock, who is a longtime client
and mentor of mine.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 1 (44:41):
You?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Oh? Wow, deals happening on the deal My favorite thing.
Which team do you want to see win a championship
more than any I.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Mean, I'd love to see the Liberty go back to back.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Come on boy. Wow.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
One great answer, one not so great answer.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
This is the deal.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
What is your hype song before you go into a
big meeting or negotiation?
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
This probably won't surprise anyone who knows me as the
Jersey girl, but anything from Bruce Springsteen gets me, like,
you know, there's something about you know, baby, we were
born to run.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
You're on the move there, Yeah, all right, love, get
it all right. What's your advice for someone listening who
wants a career like yours?
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Do the work.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I think it's easy to pull up chat at GPT
and you know, streamline the information, but I think truly
getting in the mix and cutting your teeth are what
developed some of the most competitive players I've worked with.
And I think until you've lived it and you've experienced,
it's really hard to be able to navigate this industry.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
So do the work.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Thank you for your time.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
This episode was made by Anamazarakus, Stacey Wong, and Lizzie Phillip.
Amy Keen is our editor and Will Connolly is our
video editor. Our theme music is made by Blake Maples.
Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig, and Brenda Newnham.
Sage Fouman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. Additional support
(46:12):
from Rachel Carnivale and Elena Los Angeles. Thanks so much
for listening to the deal. If you have a minute, subscribe,
rate and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us.
I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back to the Deal. I'm your host, Jason Kelly,
alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. Coming up on the show,
we have Laura Carenti, she's the founder and CEO of
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment, talking all about the business
of women's sports. But before we get to that, Alex,
were rolling into Labor Day weekend. We're going to get
some rest because it's going to be busy next week.
(00:33):
We'll get to that in a second. It also puts
me in the mindset of college football. As you know,
you've got to know me pretty well with the last
couple of years. I love college football. I just I
can't get enough of it, and I'm so excited for
this season. You're probably pretty excited, not just because University
of Miami I think is going to be pretty good,
but your Daughta goes to University of Michigan. They have
(00:55):
a quarterback that they are paying, wait for it, twelve
and a half million dollars. What is going on? I mean,
when you see something like that, what's your reaction?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, first of all, I have a follow up question,
is that for one year or for all four years.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's for four years. It's spread across.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, Jason, if you told me this five years ago,
I would have called BS.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Like, there's no way.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I mean, some of these guys are going to take
pay cuts when they go into the NFL. If they
get into the NFL. It's just remarkable the amount of interest.
And just like you and I love college, so do
a lot of wealthy people that want to, you know,
follow up under Alma Mato exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So that is largely funded by Larry Ellison and his family.
His wife went to University of Michigan. And what's so
interesting about this story to me as well is, as
you very well know, Michigan obviously stalwart of the Big Ten.
This is a quarterback, Bryce Underwood, who was originally going
to LSU. Brian Kelly obviously the coach they are well
known from coaching Notre Dame LSU, you know, a stalwart
(01:58):
in its own right of the SEC. Michigan comes in
and basically says, oh, you're gonna pay him like a million,
million and a half. That's adorable. We're gonna up the
ante and we're gonna pay him a total package of
twelve and a half million dollars. Now, I can't imagine
he's gonna be there for four years, so we'll see
what that net payout means to be. But that's sort
of a baseline of what he's gonna get paid because
(02:18):
he's probably got other other deals coming in. NIL has
completely changed everything and a nice segue. That's my job
is to find these connections between these things. We're gonna
be really busy next week because here in New York,
you're gonna be here. We're taping several episodes of the
deal that you'll see later the season, but we're gonna
be live on stage at Power Players. This is an
(02:40):
annual event that we host here at Bloomberg Headquarters in
New York. NIL in college Sports is going to be
one of the things we're going to talk about. We're
gonna have the athletic directors of UCLA, Duke, and Ohio
State all on stage together talking about the business of
college sports. So you're gonna be interested in that, if
only to see what Ohio State has to say for
your but your no beloved Wolverines. But I'm so excited
(03:02):
to see you. It's gonna be a baller day.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
It's gonna be awesome, and the fact that we're going
to do three shows back to back to back is awesome.
And Bloomberg always attracts the best of the best audience,
and I cannot wait not only for who's going to
be on the panels, but who's actually there watching, which
is always a stellar, stellar crew.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, it's a very deal deal friendly crew that's going
to be there. A lot of leaders in business and sports.
And just to go through some of the folks that
we're going to see throughout the course of the day,
some familiar faces from the Deal Cinematic universe, starting off
with Maria Sharapova. She was our first guest on this show.
She was the premiere episode. She's going to be in
conversation with our colleague of sorts and your fellow sports
(03:44):
owner David Rubinstein. I'm gonna sit down with Tom Garfinkel,
the CEO of the Dolphins in the Miami F One
Grand Prix, alongside Mike Arraghetti, someone you know well, obviously
the CEO of Aries. They were one of the first
private equity investors to go into the NFL. There's going
to be lots of other conversations Gary Bettman and a
(04:06):
NHL commissioner. Another familiar deal guest, ted leonsis he's going
to be joining us as well. And do you want
to reveal who are our deal guest is going to be?
It is a fellow New York champion who I know
you're very excited to see.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yes, Justin tuk and I'm so excited to talk to him.
I mean, he's had a phenomenal career. He's only forty two.
And guess what some of his places he's been at
Notre Dame were in business school, the Giants and gold
Mis Sachs. We cannot wait to unpack a lot of
great conversations.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, I'm not sure people know this. I mean, if
you know, you know kind of thing here Justin tuckson,
managing director at Coleman Sachs. I mean, which is wild.
As you say, you love to talk about blue chip names.
He is blue chip across the board. You know. Obviously,
as you said, played at one of the pre eminent
institutions in college football, the only truly like independent champion
(04:58):
college football program out there, the Irish. They are one
of one when it comes to that. And obviously the
lineage of the players who came out of there, but
the idea that he went to work on Wall Street.
Coming out of that, he's invested in companies like Roan
and just so much to talk to Hm about. Also,
you know this and I know this because we both
know he's also such a good dude. Like I'm just
(05:18):
excited to share a stage, and I have to say,
people are going to lose it when he comes in.
He won two Super Bowls in New York.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Well, that's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I mean, you beat me to it.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
But when you say one of one, so is justin talk.
I mean, in fact, he's a two time world champion
in New York City. The first forty two years have
been phenomenal. I'm more interested in what happens in the
next forty two years. And we will ask him that.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, so so much going on next week. If you're
in New York, you know, see if you can join
us live or you know, watch on Bloomberg TV. It'll
be on Bloomberg Radio. You and I will be making
the rounds. Lots of fun people who are going to
be here in the building with us, on stage, backstage,
in the audience. As you say, so power players. We
always do it to tie it into the US Open,
(06:00):
and really excited to be with you. And as you say,
we've got a couple other episodes that'll be coming down
the pike that we'll be taping here when you're here
back home in New York. All right, coming up Laura Karrenti.
She is the founder and CEO of Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. Next on the Deal. Welcome back to the Deal.
(06:29):
I'm Jason Kelly along aside Alex Rodriguez here in New York.
We're so excited to have with us Laura Krenty, of course,
the CEO and founder of Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Elsie,
great to see you. You're a podcaster yourself, So you
come ready to play?
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I know, always ready to play, boss. Do you stay ready?
You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Get ready exactly exactly. So, you and I have known
each other for a few years as I got deeper
and deeper into the sports world and the intersection of business,
sports and culture. And you've gone all in on women's sports,
you know, Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You've got a
roster of incredible partners, sponsors, etc. I want to jump
right in. What was the moment that you decided to
(07:11):
go all in on women's sports.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Sure, well, I think just for backstory and context, because
this wasn't a bandwagon fans situation. Really, there was a
pinnacle moment in twenty nineteen when the US women's national
team won their fourth World Cup in France, and at
the very end of that game, when they're hoisting the trophy,
the crowd breaks out and a chance of equal pay
instead of USA. And that was the same year that
(07:35):
a number of players from the national team had sued
their employer in US Soccer and one in achieving that
equal pay status. And I remember very vividly sitting at
the Jersey shore as one does, watching this match and
seeing all the commentators and broadcasters and even the social
media started to light up, saying, we haven't seen this
kind of momentum since ninety nine, So now you're talking
(07:56):
twenty years forward in terms of this level of excitement,
enthusiasm and support for this team.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
But it was really larger than the team.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
It was for the women's sports ecosystem at large.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
And in that moment, Jason, I go.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
To the NWSL website and if you scroll to the
very bottom of that website, in twenty nineteen, which I
did on that day, which was July seventh. There were
four partners to the league at that point, so Nike
had the Kits lifetime, The Women's Cable Network was the
media rights distributor at that point, thor In, the supplement's company,
and A Long Care Service was the fourth. And as
somebody who had grown up in the advertising industry predominantly
(08:29):
as a media buyer, you know very well what makes
this industry go round, right, And that's not just the
media rights, it's also the advertisers who support it. And
I knew in that moment, while appreciative of those advertisers
and partners knowing critical to just have a league in play,
it was certainly not going to be enough to meet
this moment, and so I started to dig in and
it really was a multi year journey to realize that.
(08:52):
Fast forward into twenty twenty three when I decided to
go full throttle. This wasn't a product issue that team
in particular had been dominant for decades.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
This wasn't for lack of storytelling.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
These athletes were so multi dimensional and haven't had the
opportunity to tell their stories on the field, let alone
off of it, and it said again, as somebody who
had been a buyer, I recognized in that moment, just
as a microcosmic example, you know, women's sports, to get
nerdy with it for a second, were being sold on
the same currency and measured on the same metrics that
(09:23):
men's sports were, and that was largely based on reach.
And even in twenty twenty three, outside of these current
broadcast deals that have just been negotiated METEA Wites deals,
women's sports hadn't been mainstream, let alone put into an
appointment viewing position, primetime positioning, et cetera, and so forth
in order to be sold, let alone transacted and measured
on that same metric. And so you start to realize
(09:44):
this is a system's issue, and leveraging twenty plus years
in the ad business, coupled with having played through the
collegiate level, paired these two skill sets and said we're
off to the racis yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
And it's funny too, because you do. Fast forward to
twenty twenty five and I'm sitting here in New York
City alongside the owner and governor of the Minnesota Lynx,
who I think it's fair to say, Alex, you have
very quickly gotten religion around the economic power of women's sports.
So tell me, like how you come to it and
(10:16):
sort of how you come to this conversation.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Well, I come from Laura, from a very humble and
trying to really educate myself into space because it's like none.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
That I've ever studied or seen.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And just to give an example, when you look at
the Timboleves and the Lynx, the crossover is single digits.
It's somewhere on eight or nine percent on our fan base,
which to me was like extraordinarily surprising. I would have
probably handicapped it like probably forty or fifty percent, but
it's not. It's it's on eight or nine percent. But
I guess, Laura, my question for you as I kind
of I'm in my education early in my education journey
(10:51):
with a WNBA, and I'm so excited about it with
my partner Mark LORII. What should we be thinking about
and what are the people like Clara's a great example
from the Liberty Clara was high yeahs, who's really the goat?
I mean, she's really done in incredible. What should we
be thinking about? What are great owners that Clara doing?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Full disclosure, You're a huge Liberty fan.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I'm a women's sports fan, but as a Jersey girl,
I support all of the local teams. So yes, I
am a huge Liberty fan. But in order to see
the industry succeed, the whole pie has to. And just
to answer your question, Alex, I think when you look
at what a team like the Liberty has been able
to achieve off the back of and sorry to say this,
their last championship where they defeated the Links and the
(11:34):
trajectory of advertisers and net new revenue. They've been able
to bring in not just from ticket sales and merchandise
which are double triple digit LYFT, but also just sponsorship deals.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's been fascinating to see.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
When I started the business in twenty twenty three, fast
forward twenty twenty five. I mean we're not even two
full years in yet. At Deep Blue, the initial conversations
were all just about recognition of the space. Now we're
in an instance where or a situation in chapter where
we need to write side the business case, and so
I'll give you an example and I'll take us out
of the w but I think it's a pertinent one.
(12:04):
Some data just came out around the NWSL's commercial sponsorship
revenue in twenty twenty four, which achieved seventy five million
dollars and AD revenue that is up sixteen percent from
twenty twenty two, so growing, not exponentially in the ways
we've seen some other numbers, but.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Still double digit lift.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yet when you look at those numbers, there is a
glaring issue with respect to the annual average value of
those partnerships. So seventy five million dollars came in across
four hundred and forty one partners. The reason I told
you that story about when I looked into the league
in twenty nineteen, we're up from four partners to four
hundred and forty one partners in that span. But if
(12:44):
you divide those numbers, you're talking an average net value
of one hundred and seventy thousand dollars. This is where
I see the gap in terms of how do you
start right sizing it? And so then you dig in
and you start saying, Okay, of that seventy five million,
three clubs generated forty six percent of that Angel City
the current in Kansas City and San Diego. So then
(13:06):
you're like, okay, the average probably at the bottom half
of that table what are we really talking about five
figure deals? How do you grow at the rate in
which the market is demanding? And so these are where
we start talking about right sizing and to do that,
you know, we've been really working on. Okay, start making
the business case in apples to Apple scenarios and when
you start comparing it to men's so you'll appreciate this,
I think particularly Alex A thirty second spot in the
(13:27):
MLB World Series over the last few years has averaged
four hundred and fifty to five hundred and fifty thousand
dollars per thirty second advertising spot. That means that one
hundred and seventy thousand dollars I can acquire the rights
to work with a team for an eight month plus
season at the same rate I can buy at a
quarter and eighth in some instances what I'm buying a
thirty second spot in the World Series.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So you start to put.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Those comparisons together, I mean, and then you get into
things like, Okay, a Super Bowl spot you know last
year alone was seven to eight million. You come in
into a league with a seven to eight million dollar check,
you could own the whole damn pie. So these are
the sort of rois and comparisons, and we've been talking
about getting in now, but I think this expression of
focusing on how cheap it is, and I hate to
(14:12):
use that word, but the entry point as opposed to
the ROI and what you can actually achieve in value
at this stage of growth is something that I think
the market is missing.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And so tell us about some of the brands that
are coming in. You know, there are some household names
that you've worked with, you know, whether it's ally financial, mass,
mutual others. But I'm sure you look around the target center,
Alex and you know, I watch these games on TV
and you are starting to see really big names come in.
(14:44):
What's the case as you're sort of cutting these deals
because you were in a very trusted intermediary between all
of this and you're making these deals happen. What's the
case you're making that resonates the most to the potential sponsors.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I mean, it's just what we talked about, the value
exchange and the return you're going to get for the
investment that you're putting in. And when you start again
right sizing in comparison to where these media buyers on
behalf of brands or the brands themselves are investing their
media and sponsorship dollars. You'd be hard pressed to make
a case where the WNBA, for example, last year in
twenty twenty four, so an average of thirteen x on
(15:18):
the investments brands made as league officials.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I don't have to tell you.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Guys at Bloomberg that type of return and an investment
in one year.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
It's significant.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And so you know when you talk about an Ally Financial,
you know ALLI Financial is a first mover in the space.
They came out into the market a couple years ago.
What I think they don't get enough credit for but
a very bold, audacious, perhaps ahead of its time, but
certainly a catalyst commitment, which was saying, you know, we're
going to initiate this fifty to fifty pledge for every
dollar we spend in men's sports, we're going to put
into women's sports within a certain period of time, a real, tangible,
(15:47):
measurable goal. Well, they get into the space and they
recognize there's not enough inventory to actually even meet their
own goals. So now you start recognizing your role as
an advertiser is not just to invest in the market.
We actually have to create the market. We need to
invest in, and so I think Ally has done an
incredible job of showing up in places like not just
(16:09):
becoming league officials for the NWSL and the PA. There
now a league official for the WNBA, showing up in
places like unrivaled, investing in niche media properties like Tobinheath
and Kristen Press's reinc investing into the whole ecosystem so
that there is enough for advertisers who need to achieve
scale in many instances to justify the media investments they're making,
(16:30):
to able to come back and say, Okay, I could
put X in with X return, because many of them say,
this isn't charity. They're not doing this as a check
the box anymore. This is a really viable market. But
the media ecosystem, coupled with the team league athlete ecosystem
has to mature in terms of its accessibility and availability
of inventory for these advertisers to make the business case.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Laura, I'm want to just take it like one step deeper.
We talked a little bit about the links. Take someone
like Nafisia Collier, who is a historic player who could
very well be the MVP this year. She's a great
business entrepreneur. How should we be thinking about positioning her
in the market, and do you position her parallel to
the links or completely separate?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
That's a yes, And I think the value obviously she
brings to your organization is like none other, you know,
as you said, a legacy player who stands on her own.
And at the same time, I think she demonstrates what
is the best of women's sports, which probably has been
one of the most undervalued, which she's a multi hyphenate.
This is a woman who's an entrepreneur and starting Unrivaled,
had the ambition and went out and created it, stood
(17:35):
it up, proved the business model.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
You know. I just was reading the.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Other day how they're expected to give increases to the
players in Unrivaled in just year two for their salaries
because they overachieved or hit every single metric that they
set out to do in year one, which is not
easy to do in sports, as we know. I love
seeing the ads that she's in right now with care
dot Com, emphasizing her role as a parent and a
(17:58):
mom and bringing that dimension to the space. And so
when I look at some of the stars of the
w I think, yes, we owe them more coverage. With
respect to their stats and score lines and all the
incredible things they're doing on the court. But we also
know there's a casual fan base out there that we've
yet to even scratch the surface on that isn't just
coming to watch the w for the on court competition.
(18:20):
They're coming because these are moms, these are fashion icons,
these are entrepreneurs, they're recording artists. I mean, you could
go down the list of all of the and ones
that these athletes are and have had to do, largely
because prior to the moment we're in, they didn't have
a choice, right, many of them had to be able
to make ends meet, whether playing overseas or starting businesses,
(18:41):
just to be able to justify the means of being
professional athletes.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, so let's talk about that multi hyphen aspect, because
you know, I'm sitting next to one here, and part
of the reason this show exists is because of Alex's
own ambition, and the three of us all know that
that's not a given for every athlete, like it takes
a special athlete to take that extra step or those
multiple extra steps. We've had several people, several of those
(19:07):
multi hyphenates who've been on this show recently Alison Felix,
who I know is a recent business partner of yours,
super Bird, who's a longtime business partner of hers. So
help us understand that and maybe start with Sue because
I know you've been working with her for a long time. Again,
she sat on set with us and sort of walked
us through her journey. How did you guys get together
and what is it about her and your partnership that
(19:30):
you can describe?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Sure, it was a very serendipitous opportunity for us to connect,
which was around an industry event prior to launching Deep Blue,
and as I was getting into the operational side of
how we were going to make the business case to advertisers.
You know, I can come all day with the receipts
of the things I've been able to develop in my
career as a brand builder, an ad buyer, activation creator, etc.
(19:54):
But there was a key piece that was missing and
I was noticing in every room I was going into,
was that first person athlete person effective? Now in men's sports,
it's relatively known because we have documentaries, we've heard the stories,
we have the first person point of view, and ongoing
press conferences pregame shows, postgame coverage, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Women's sports not the case.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And so what I found to be interesting was when,
you know, you would talk to advertisers and in some
instances agencies in the year plus of you know, research
and diligence we were doing prior to deciding to go
all in, and I started recognizing, for example, you'd walk
into meet with a brand whose creative agency was developing
the brief, the strategy all the way through to execution
(20:33):
of an ad campaign for example, that was meant to
either feature and or run in and around women's sports.
The creators behind those ads more often than not had
never watched a women's sports let alone been to a
women's sports game, experience, whatever the case may be. So
how can you authentically connect with an audience, let alone
(20:54):
tell a story if you haven't had that experience. And
so this perspective was what that was missing, And serendipitously
got connected with Sue. This was just on the heels
of her retirement, obviously an illustrious goat certified career, but
also this was not at the time when basketball had
taken off yet, it was this in between period, and
we started talking about the work that she was doing,
(21:15):
and I think it really piqued her curiosity to know
not just the level of storytelling that goes out, but
more importantly, if nobody sees the story, there's no promotion
or tune into the story, which was a side of
the coin I was playing on. That story you're telling
is a moot point. So this ability to have a
hand and put her fingerprints, I think, on end to
end was appealing. I will tell you when we decided
(21:36):
to link up. I announced the company in December of
twenty three. I have great text receipts for a book.
Someday people tell me it was absolutely out of my mind, Lauren,
nobody cares about women's sports. I mean a lot of
expletives in between. I announced Sue in January twenty four.
Now the sudden people stand up a little straight or
wait a minute, we haven't seen this on the women's
side the same way we've seen you know, Alex, you
and your peers linking up with entrepreneurs business executives to
(22:00):
launch and build companies. It was relatively not done. And
fast forward April of twenty four, Caitlin Clark meets Angel
Reese in that Final four and the rest was history.
Not only did Sue's time become very limited, she became
very busy because obviously lightning in a bottle moment for her,
which I'm so excited for and glad to see that
(22:20):
she's gotten opportunities to weigh in on, but ever so
more important to have her perspective as well as other
athletes we work with at the table talking to advertisers
in a way that there's no amount of field research
you can do when you want to put out an
Olympic campaign spot focused around team USA women's basketball and
not have super Bird's opinion at the day.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
You can't compare these things.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I mean, her five gold medals, yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Not one, so I know you keep counting them, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I mean, it's been a tremendous competitive advantage for Deep Blue,
but also a tremendous competitive advantage for the market to
have athletes like Sue Bird and others who are assuming
business positions and able to inform and just make the
whole industry smarter about the true experience of what they've lived.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Laura, I love the space that you're navigating in as
a father to two teenage daughters. It really excites me
that people like you that are so capable are really
expanding the footprint of women's sports. A question about Deep Blue.
You found it two years ago. Have you thought about
your five year plan and inside that five year plan
(23:34):
can you see Deep Blue being NLP or a GP
owner to a sports franchise.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
So it's so funny, Alex.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
When we started the company, we had a five year
plan which went from twenty three to LA twenty eight.
We were going to look at that five year window
up until the Olympics in the US. I think within
the first six months I probably ripped that plan up
two or three times because the market was just electric
and the opportunities that were presenting itself were coming at
a rate where like no plan on paper made sense
(24:02):
because you're just constantly having to hit the edit butt in.
But the true nature of it two years in is
recognizing that, first of all, sports is not the output
for me, it's the vehicle and how do you thread
and take this deep subject matter expertise at the intersection
of media, marketing, advertising and women's sports to move horizontally,
not just vertically. So agency services, so to speak, was
(24:22):
our trojan horse in our primary customer was to work
with brands to make them smarter, help them understand the
space right, size the investments that they were making, and
help extrapolate incremental value. We've done that, as Jason alluded to,
for some world class blue chip brands who are early
and then some who have been new. For example, I
just brokeer to deal just within the last few months
between Vagicil and the New York Liberty talking about body confidence.
(24:46):
They had never invested in the world of women's sports before.
So a lot of netnew comers as well. But as
you pick your head up, I'd be remiss not to say, like,
that's just the entry point things like IP development. This
is something we're very excited about. We saw an opening
for the lack of content creation. You know, less than
fifteen percent of coverage today still in the world of
sports goes to women's sports, and that's where you start
(25:08):
to sacrifice the storytelling that is missing, and so we
decided to go all in with iHeart to develop iHeart
Women's Sports, which in less than two years has over
sixteen original pods in the space, covering a variety of
sports from both former athletes, broadcasters, talent, et cetera. It's
still to this day containing the only official women's daily
(25:29):
podcast called Good Game with Sarah Spain with a former
ESPN broadcaster slash journalist. And so we started looking at
the IP creation. Okay, what comes off of this? You
start thinking about the world of commerce, you know, you
start thinking about live events. For three years running now
we've hosted the Business Women's Sports Summer in New York
City in the spring, and an initiative that first started
(25:49):
as like if they build it, will they come. But
it is a convening ground where it is the only
space in the world as far as we're aware, where
the intersection of business and women's ports or comes together.
So you start creating all of these products and assets.
So IPE live events definitely interesting to us. Getting in
and around the world of commerce interesting to us. And
then the last frontier is a venture we are learning
(26:12):
so much in real time. I see a world where
Deep Blue owns teams. I see a world where Deep
Blue starts collecting assets and ultimately being the grounding center
all through the lens of that subject matter expertise.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I want to go a little deeper on this ownership piece, Laura,
because obviously very interesting to my partner here this notion
of ownership, and I do wonder how you see that developing,
not just from the deep blue perspective, but in these
conversations that you have with partners like super Bird because
(26:45):
ownership and again I'm sitting beside an example of it,
that the athlete to owner transition is becoming much better
trid for lack of a better term. How do you
see that developing and how does that play into your
business model?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Sure, I mean I think again it goes to a yes,
and the strategic value of an Alex Rodriguez or a
superd sitting in an ownership position to be able to
provide a point of view that reflects the players that
you know, reflects the training facilities resource needs to develop.
On field excellence is paramount, There's no doubt about it.
(27:21):
And I don't know how you can actually replicate that
if you hadn't played it at that level. And also
one of the things that I'm seeing, especially in the
world of women's sports, is it is a gold rush
and there are a number of you know, investors of
all kinds, family offices all the way through to pev
you know, venture et cetera coming in and around the space.
(27:41):
We cannot apply the men's playbook to women's sports full stop.
And I think there is and Alex, I appreciate you
saying this a real need for education on who the
audience is really understanding the fan experience. Alex, I don't
know if you've had a chance to go see a
New York Liberty game.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
I haven't been to see the Links live.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
You've seen them in Liberty, But this game day experience
and the audience that it is super serving, there is
nothing like it in sports period.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
And if you can't.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Understand the distinctions around that, I think you really handicap
growth a small microcosm and thinking about facilities and stadium development,
and this is an area I'm fascinated by. I was
at a Washington Spirit match against Gotham in Washington, d C.
At Audyfield and actually took a picture of this moment.
I was going up the escalator and there was a
whole section of strollers stroller parking. It wasn't a formal
(28:32):
official place. Now there was a third party vendor that
was supporting that, you know, sort of parking and go.
But when you start thinking about you know, mother rooms
having espresso martiniz on tap. I mean, I could go
down the list of things that when you start really
thinking about the nuances and experience, how owners can get
in and around the world of branding, media, marketing, influencers, creators,
(28:54):
game day experience through experiential activation. We're no longer talking
about a playbook we all know and grew up on.
This is developing for a modern audience and a modern experience.
And so I would encourage owners coming into this space
to not be presumptive and really get in and under
the hood, because I think the ability to derive incremental
value by getting outside of the box of the thing
(29:16):
we all know and love is only going to increase
the evaluations.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Lord, this reminds me a little bit when you think
about Deep Blue, it reminds me a little bit of
you know, Baine consulting in Mitt Robney, and Mitt was
going to leave to start his own private equity group.
And what they realized was, wait a minute, we're consulting,
We have all the data, we bring, all the value,
we understand where the puck is going. Why are we
going to let such a great talent mid Rodney go?
(29:40):
Why not start being capital and then the birth of
basically being private equity started. I mean, you're collecting all
the data. You're really in a position of strength. I
can't think of anyone who could be a dial or
an Arctos, and you're well positioned in women's sports to
bring tremendous amount of value.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Thank you appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I actually was reading about your new venture and Jump
and the amount of capital that you've obviously raised.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Our congratulations.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
And you know what I'm so enamored by is this
full three sixty where you own the data. This is
another area when you get into the world of women's
sports that has been such an impediment to growth. So
just as a microcosmic example, you look at im a
Gotham season ticket holder. Now outside of the Kansas City current,
every women's sports team in the United States, regardless of sport,
(30:28):
is renting or leasing their facility from a men's team
or some other provider.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Right they do not own the space.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And I always think about it going through the turnstiles
at Red Bull Arena and now Sports Illustrated Arena. How
the trickle effect and what delays that can create for
an organization when you don't have real time, access to
who's coming through the turnstyle, what they're buying at concessions,
what the merchandise flow is, and not having that as
a collective to then turn around Alex you're talking about
(30:54):
as an owner and going out to advertisers. Advertisers want
the data, and they don't want yesterday's they want days.
They want to be able to have real time informed
decision making. And so by creating a platform like Jump,
from my understanding, it will have everything from ticket sales
all the way through merchandising in one platform. This will
help in my opinions and not only expedite deal flow,
(31:14):
but also increase it. And I think that's something again
as a media buyer for twenty years, I look at
clients want data, brand marketers want data.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
I want to say clients.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
The women's sports industry largely has not had it, and
I think that has been a tremendous discservice and why
we're seeing one hundred and seventy thousand dollars deals because
you really have nothing to bet on and everybody reports
to somebody, right, and so at the end of the
day to make these decisions, you have to be able
to justify this and like I said, we're not in
the checkbox era anymore.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
We need real tangible results.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
You know, what are the areas Laura that you know
you and I have talked about this. I think we
actually talked about it on our panel that the Business
Women's Sports Summit, the media deal side, you know, media rights,
et cetera. I know you've looked at this intensely and
obviously a lot of that plays directly into what your
clients want and expect and what the leagues want, what
(32:06):
the teams want. It plays into valuations. As alex Well
knows what happens next when it comes to media rights
for the big women's.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Sports, this will be a hot take.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I care less about the total number, more about the
experience today, and what I mean by that is seeing
a number of leagues chase very, very high numbers, which
again I understand the reason the business case sport of directors,
you know, needs for the leagues, etc. But in doing so,
and often cases, we're fragmenting games across four or five
(32:37):
plus networks, and you're taking audiences that are already nascent
and still in their formative years. And I'm talking, you know,
high six figures, low seven at best, and now you're
splintering them across five networks. Women's sports offers from two
main issues. They're hard to find and they're hard to buy.
We talked about the buying piece, I'll talk about the
finding piece. It's been fascinating to see this moment play
(32:59):
out because everybody so excited by the multiples, but people
not recognizing you're disrupting the audience experience. People don't know
where to find half of these games. I mean, you
need a master calendar that would stretch my dining room
table just to understand what to do this weekend. I
don't think that's a good service model for your fans.
They're frustrated. You see them take it out in real
time on social media. They're often helping each other figure
(33:21):
out how to find it. And two, if you really
think about it, in some instances, there are leagues with
five distribution partners, which means you're creating five different rate
cards for advertising, five different commercial products, five different game
day experiences, and you're going to the same five advertisers
asking them for the same five deals.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And so this is a part where you know, I
can understand why the MLB, the NFL. They have the luxury, right,
You're talking tens of millions of people tuning in over
how many decades.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
It's a fine tune machine.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Women's sports is not there yet, and so when I
look at those deals, I'm like, how do we streamline
both the efficacy of finding it, but then you have
to think about making it more efficient for advertisers to
participate in it.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Laura, this is not a struggle or a challenge that
is exclusively for WNBA or women's sports. I recently got
a call from my mother who's eighty nine. Okay, that's
a different demographic, but she still watches the Yankees game
every night. I mean that kind of I loves her
bad and she loves she loves her Yankees.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
She's very frustrated right now. They're hard to love right now.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
She wants to to answer all the questions that my mom.
I don't have other I'm not watching as closely as
I have the timbos and the links. I'm sorry, but
in one week, Laura, there was a six different telecast.
We had a Yes Network, we had Apple TV, we
had Gotham, we had Fox, we had Ruku, and then
we had ESPN Sunday Night Baseball and Fox of course
was Saturday. And my Mom's like, where in the world
(34:47):
do I find these apps? Can we go back to
the old days and just turn on the Yes Network?
And I said, no, Mom, those days are over. But
that just gives you a little example of it's hard
to find and hard to buy, right.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
And you know it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I just saw literally a work that came out around
if you want to be an NFL fan this year
and watch the entire season. I forget how many there were.
I believe it was something like a thousand to eleven
hundred dollars worth of subscriptions just to be able to
watch the full season as a fan.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Right now, I love football, but I'm a Jets fan.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
So that's a big commitment when you've been on the
losing side, Like you're alone.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I hate yourself. If you're a Jets fan.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
You Jets and Mets? Is that usually how it works?
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Jets Yankees? This is unconventional.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
I know, I know, I know, I blame my husband,
but I confer to me it's the Jets lawyer for you.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
No.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I mean, you know, New Yorker fans are right or die,
But you know, when you start talking about for you know,
the average consumer eleven hundred dollars worth of subscriptions come
on and you know then and then you look at
the women's sports space, it's not much far behind in
terms of the amount of you know, if you want
to be a w fan and an NWSL fan, I mean,
how many platforms do you need? And so I think
(35:54):
this is where we're at at a very interesting inflection
point in media. The streamers are running up the or
board in terms of price and having the disposable cash
to be able to put up these types of deals.
But at some point there has to be a convening
of the powers that be that recognize you are fragmenting
and diluting the value of your league.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I did mention something earlier that I wanted to sort
of circle back on, which is the deal that you
did with Always Alpha and Alison Felix, Always Alpha being
the talent management company that she started. Help us understand
sort of what you're doing there, because this notion of
managing talent is a fascinating one. It's one you have
a lot of windows into. It goes back to something
(36:34):
you know you've been talking about when it comes to
you know, athletes like Alex, like Sue and others who
just have so much to offer, tell us about that
deal and sort of how it came about it and
what the vision is there.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Very vividly remember one of my colleagues calling me saying
that they had heard some rumblings that another women's sports
firm was coming into the space. Now, at this point
in the early twenty twenty four, we were still the
only I mean now, obviously the big talent agencies had
women's sports services, but in terms of dedicated no, and
it was going to focus on talent. And there was
this immediate rush of those inside the women's sports business bubble,
(37:09):
which wasn't still relatively niche, who immediately want to pit
you against each other.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
Right, They're like, there could only be one.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
But what was interesting was the skill set that we
had and the business model we were running was complimentary
to what Allison and her business partners Cassette and West,
were after in that they were going to focus hyper
focus on managing the careers of female athletes exclusively. I
was not in the business of managing anyone. We were
in the business of managing deal flow, and so when
you looked at the opportunity. You know, there are a
(37:37):
couple of things that I started thinking about. You control
the money, you control the market, You have input and
partnership with the athletes, You have the influence. So this
became a really interesting proposition to me to say, hey,
wait a minute, we already have a great vantage point
into where all the money is flowing. But if we
can now bolt on the influence and the incremental earned
(37:58):
value of what these athletes can generate and how they
are dictating the marketplace, you've cornered the market lights out.
And a series of conversations and meetings ensued and got
to talking about the unique nature of bringing these two
and at that point only focused companies in the world
of women's sports.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
And it was as simple as a handshake and the.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Value exchange there in the joint venture that we created
between Deep Blue and Always Alpha was Always Alpha was
going to manage the talent all the ways that you
would anticipate talent management firm supporting its clients, and we
were going to bring this added layer of strategic expertise
and industry knowledge to help shape an athlete's platform. To
think about brand strategy, you can't just I mean, Alex,
(38:39):
I'd be curious to get your perspective on this. Like
we are no longer in the day of just playing
the sport. I mean there's very few people you talking
about just playing the sport. You have to be able
to dimensionalize this female athletes times ten, and so to
be able to provide that level of insight, knowledge, expertise
what we were seeing in the market while also developing
that as athletes, as ip, all of a sudden, you
(39:00):
have a tremendous competitive vantage because it's not about transaction anymore.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
It's about transformation yea.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
And we were very focused on working with the athletes
to say, this moment that you're in in your playing career,
because they're predominantly working with a lot of active athletes,
let this be the vehicle.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
This is not the endgame.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
And so as early as we can start getting in
and thinking about, yes, you may be a peloton instructor
crushing the leader board or you know, world class runner
who's out there breaking records. How are we using this
moment and this platform both the world and what it's
providing us and coverage also your social channels, how you're
showing up in the market, et cetera, to start to
(39:37):
build the tentacles and what will become your multi hyphen business.
So that added component helps to supercharge and I think
pay off on you know what you even asked earlier
on what owners can do it. It's bringing that level
of strategy well beyond the transactional nature of it.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
It is funny, Alex to think about this idea that
you were following in the footsteps of like Magic Johnson,
but there weren't a lot of people that emulated. Now,
it feels like, especially in the age of nil and
everything else, if you're not thinking about your brand, if
you're not thinking about yourself as a multi hyphen it,
you're actually the outlier versus when it was when you
(40:15):
were coming up. Do you think that's true?
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Oh yeah, I mean, look, just twenty five years ago,
I signed at that point the largest contract in the
history of sports for ten years, two hundred and fifty
two million dollars Tom Hickstonner the Text Rangers, and before
that I had been in the league for six years.
I was twenty four years old. That entered as an
eighteen year old teenager, and I became immediately public enemy
(40:37):
Number one because of that contract. And when you fast
forward twenty five years and you see Shoheo Tania seven
hundred and he becomes literally a hero and an icon.
That brings a smile to my face because there's an
amazing shift that's gone on. At that point in twenty
twenty one, the team had all the power. They controlled
the media, they controlled the narrative. We didn't have social thousand,
(40:58):
two thousand and one, sorry twenty four years ago. And
today that's shifted. Whether you talk about Nficia Collier or
you're talking about Anthony Edwards or Aaron Judge or Shohio Tani,
the player has much influence as the team, and they
have become truly our partners, and we work very well
with them together. It's my hope and dream that Major
League Baseball gets direct together and they can work more
(41:20):
collectively as a unit.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
If not more.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
If not more, I mean, we're a big believer in
individuals over institutions, and this is not unique to sport.
This is just the way modern media is moving. And
so I think, Alex you asked the question earlier about
NAFISA as a standalone versus NFISA as a bolt on
and I think the answer is yes. You know, I
think allowing her to develop that platform and also figuring
out how it develops the brand that is the links.
(41:44):
These two things in tandem are the superpower. Not to
take over your show, No, but I actually I do.
I have a question and a final thought, Alex. A question,
as somebody who signed the largest deal in the history
of baseball in your prime, when you look at the
world of win in sports today, what has been the
absolute head scratcher and how are you thinking about things
(42:05):
differently from that person you were in that deal twenty
five years ago to now applying those principles to a
market that, yes, fifty plus years old, but still relatively
junior with you know, it's professionalization.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Wow, that's a great question. I'd love some time to
think on that a little bit more. I'm a novice
in the space and I'm really enjoying it and I'm
really collecting a lot of data and talking to a
lot of smart people. But I do think that the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Is endless, totally, And I'd love to just leave you
with the final thought because you did allude to your daughters,
and I think you know it's easy to get caught
up in the short term ism of the moment that
we're living in a women's sports Although I like to
play the long game, I'm not just in this because
it's fun, it's exciting, it's all of those things, and
it's a net new industry to chase. What I really
want to leave your listeners with are the stakes of
(42:52):
what we're talking about. Forty five percent of girls are
dropping out of sport in the United States by the
age of fourteen, nearly one out of two, largely to
body confidence issues. What influences body confidence issues the media, marketing,
and advertising industries of which I'm a part of. And
so when you start to think about girls who play
becoming women who lead, ninety four percent of women in
(43:13):
the C suite have played sports at some point at
any point in their lives, and over fifty percent of
those collegiately. When you think about that drop off nearly
one out of two, and the social economic impact of
what is lost and potentially what could be gained as
a result of keeping girls in sport and what it
does for their development.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
That is why we're in this game.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
And I think one of the things that I am
so impressed by and continue to be inspired by on
a daily basis is to leave it better than we
found it. Mentality of the entire women's sports community, and
I think that that is something that cannot be lost. Yes,
the numbers will prove themselves out. Yes, there will be
a lot of people who make a lot of money
in this industry. But when you really think about the
long tail impact of what we're talking about, we're talking GDPs,
(43:57):
it's far greater than the short term valuation some media
orite steals we're seeing today.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
All Right, we're gonna do a lightning round and then
we'll let you get on with the rest of your day. Laura,
you've been very generous with your time. All right, five
questions will bounce it back and forth. First thing that
comes to your mind, you ready.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Go for it?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
All right? What's the best piece of advice you've received
on deal making or business?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
If you see a better way, you have an obligation
to do it. And that advice came from former General
Electric vice chair Beth Coomstock, who is a longtime client
and mentor of mine.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 1 (44:41):
You?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Oh? Wow, deals happening on the deal My favorite thing.
Which team do you want to see win a championship
more than any I.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Mean, I'd love to see the Liberty go back to back.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Come on boy. Wow.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
One great answer, one not so great answer.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
This is the deal.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
What is your hype song before you go into a
big meeting or negotiation?
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
This probably won't surprise anyone who knows me as the
Jersey girl, but anything from Bruce Springsteen gets me, like,
you know, there's something about you know, baby, we were
born to run.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
You're on the move there, Yeah, all right, love, get
it all right. What's your advice for someone listening who
wants a career like yours?
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Do the work.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I think it's easy to pull up chat at GPT
and you know, streamline the information, but I think truly
getting in the mix and cutting your teeth are what
developed some of the most competitive players I've worked with.
And I think until you've lived it and you've experienced,
it's really hard to be able to navigate this industry.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
So do the work.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Thank you for your time.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
This episode was made by Anamazarakus, Stacey Wong, and Lizzie Phillip.
Amy Keen is our editor and Will Connolly is our
video editor. Our theme music is made by Blake Maples.
Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig, and Brenda Newnham.
Sage Fouman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. Additional support
(46:12):
from Rachel Carnivale and Elena Los Angeles. Thanks so much
for listening to the deal. If you have a minute, subscribe,
rate and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us.
I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.
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