May 29, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly talk with Washington Commanders Owner Josh Harris about how he was able to bring the team back to the RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C. In this conversation, Harris tells the hosts how he was also able to negotiate a deal with Comcast for the Philadelphia 76ers’ new arena, why his team was able to perform so much better on the NFL Players Association report card this year, and what he’s learned from owning teams in different markets.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
All Right, we're here in Miami for a massive episode.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Of The Deal. Josh Harris.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
I mean, when you think about team owners, he is
the guy. He has a playbook for having multiple teams
in multiple cities. Think about the Commanders, the Sixers. I'm
going to be taking a.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Lot of notes. What a time to be talking to him.
He is just passed announcing a huge deal for a
new stadium in Washington, d C.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Three point eight billion dollars. I cannot wait to get
into the details.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Tons to talk about. Let's get after it. This is
an interview we have had circled for a long time.
Josh Harris. I could spend the entirety of the episode
talking about all the different things that you do. Welcome
(00:59):
to the deal.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Great to be here, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
All Right, so sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart.
We're talking to you days removed from really one of
the biggest deals that's happened in sports in a long time,
the announcement of a new stadium in Washington, d C.
We've got a lot to talk about, but let's start there.
What do you make of it? Like, how substantial. How
seismic is this in your sports life?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, it's seismic, I think for the city, for the DMV,
for DC. DC's obviously incredibly important city and you know,
I grew up there.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I grew up in Chevy Chase, Maryland.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
And to be able to bring football back to RFK Stadium,
the spiritual home of Washington football, of the Commanders, and
you know, build a next generation, world class venue, and
obviously venues are advancing, the technology is advancing, the fan
experience is advancing, and then you know, it's not just
(01:57):
a football venue. We're gonna put a dome on it.
We're gonna make it about football, but we still put
a dome on. It's very important the city that they
be able to host massive events like the Super Bowl.
Maybe we're now we gonna push Roger on that, but
you know, you know whatever, Beyonce, you know, pick an
event and d C obviously is a gateway city for
(02:21):
the United States.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So it'll make d C great and proud.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And then not only that, it's two point ten billion
doire stadium, but it's a three point eight billion dollar
including all the stuff that's gonna happen with the infrastructure
and everything. And then there's the stadium itself is about
fifteen percent of the overall ground.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
You're I don't know if you ever been down there, but.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
You got the capital and the monument you can see it.
You got the Anocostia River, and then it's a fifteen
minute bike ride to National's Park the Navy Yard. So
you're gonna redevelop a lot of neighborhoods with d C
affordable housing, you have a whole bunch of part and
then you know, retail mixed use, uh and so you're
(03:05):
going to really change those areas in a really positive way.
And DC's had an amazing they've done this in the past.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's incredible actually and really exciting to be able to
engage with a city and help a city.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It is a massive deal. It's on a scale that
you know, we we haven't seen in a long time.
I mean, take us inside if you can, and sort
of getting it done, Like what were the what were
the key issues that you had to overcome? I mean
you were looking at multiple sites. DC emerges, you know,
as the as the winner. Ultimately there's a lot going on,
as you said in Washington, what was the key decision
(03:41):
point for you and really getting this done.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Okay, So we play in Maryland today.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
The team has played in Maryland since the nineties, like
the late nineties. And you know, obviously the DMV is
is DC Maryland Virginia. D c's in the middle, right,
so rfk's in the middle, so Maryland right for Virginia
fans a further.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
But we play in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And so the first thing we had to do is
sure all through the process Governor Moore, who really cares
about landover the government of Maryland, you know, he wanted
to make sure that you know, we said to him, look,
we have to consider d C because it's the spiritual
home of the commanders. And he said, look, I'm willing
to let you consider that and be generous about how
(04:24):
you allow you to have some options, but you need
to convince me that you're gonna, you know, build something
in Maryland if you decide to leave. And so we
concluded a deal with the governor and that allowed for
the project to be the land to be transferred to
d C. So I don't know if you remember, but
as the last Congress, with sunsetting, we got one hundred
(04:46):
zero vote.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
In the Senate.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yes, the land was under federal control until the land
was under DC control, and then it wasn't possible to
build a stadium from there. We had negotiations going with
a lot of different parties, and you know, we'll blessed
that everyone wants the commanders and ultimately concluded to deal
with the mayor that would be highly beneficial for d C.
(05:11):
And at two point seven billion, which is what we're
putting up, it's the largest investment in DC ever.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So it's the largest investment in DC's history.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
And so once the mayor decided that it was okay,
we signed a term sheet with the mayor and now
we're working.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
With the DC City Council.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Who I mean, the project has incredible ROI for DC.
Literally billions of tax revenues, thousands of homes, and thousands
of jobs, right and so.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
In affordable homes. And of that thirty.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Percent are by agreement, going to be at least that
will be affordable homes. And so it's going to raise
the standard. And then you get an amazing entertainment district.
And I mean, who's not going to play in a
new stadium with the backdrop being literally the capital and
then you get the redevelopment on the Anacostia River.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
So this is going to change DC.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And so I'm hopeful that the Council is doing its work.
A number of the of ours are already supporting that,
but we have some work to do. So now the
next step for us is to obviously get the council's vote.
You've got to tell the citizens and the politicians, you know,
why this is good for the city, why they should
invest their money in this. And the reality is DC
(06:35):
is going through a harder time right now, and we
were very sensitive that and made sure that this deal
was very good for DC.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
But I'm also.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Focused on making it a place where our opponents fear
to come, which is how this I grew up, and
where our fans love to come. And you know, our
RFK right was you know, it was incredible. I mean
the stands would shake, and it was a smaller arena,
but it was loud and you know, people showed up.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, I want to talk even more broadly about you've
got multiple arena projects going on literally around the world.
But before we get there, how do you balance the
sort of private and public funds of it all. I mean,
this has been like one of the substantial questions around
developing stadiums. How did you come to sort of the
calculus there?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, so if you look at the calculus, we had
to make sure that it was very favorable to DC.
And so because that's definitely something that people consider. They
sometimes there's the ROI of a stadium, but they also
want to know, Okay, how much is the city contributing?
And the RFK site has been sitting there since they
closed RMK and it's like crumbling concrete. I mean, it's
(07:44):
it's it's not great, right, there's nothing there, nothing's been
done with it, you know, and generating zero for zerojenning
zero and actually costing money to make sure it's safe
because it's just an open air thing and you know
there are you know, pasts and everything else. So whatever
they do, whatever DC decides that they're gonna have to
put a bunch of money into that site, just you know,
(08:05):
creating sewage and infrastructure and other things. And then we
paid for everything else. And when you and when you
benchmarkt you know there's actually articles that say, wow, did
the commanders get a good enough deal? And you know,
we're getting criticized, which I guess if that's the criticism
people are leveling at me.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
The criticism is that you didn't get into.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
The criticism in certain NFL sports. I've heard that. I've
heard that.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, So like I'll take that criticism because on the
other side of that, we have to convince d C
and the public that it's fair, and we have to
convince the council that it's fair and that and the
mayor has to sell it, and the public is overwhelmingly supportive,
which I think should help us. I mean, I think
that usually these things are more controversial, but everyone who
(08:53):
grew up in d C or in the DMV knows
that they remember what a great place are was and
how unifying it was, and what it was like when
Washington football was dominant in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
And I think we can bring it there again.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
So you've been a dealmaker for a long time. A
lot of the deals you seem to be doing right
now are for stadiums and arenas. You have a deal
that we'd love to talk about to build a new
arena in South Philly. Then you've got a big project
in South London with Crystal Palace, the football club that
you're an owner of as well, what's the common thread there?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Well, so the common thread is building amazing fan experience,
player experience, and something that helps the cities. Right, So
you're ultimately in finance, you're a steward of people's capital.
In sports, you're steward of people's memories and how they feel,
(09:51):
how the commanders do, how the teams play, makes the
city happy or the area happy, and then you have
to treat everyone incredibly well. And so if you start
with that as a premise and you say I'm going
to be guided, my north start is going to be
how do we create amazing memories? I had amazing memories
at RFK. I remember some of my earliest memories. I
(10:13):
remember being four years old, I mean literally four years
old and walking in there with my dad and you know,
just hearing it all, and I don't.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Remember a lot about it.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
But then I remember being eight and Washington football losing
to the Dolphins fourteen to seven in the Super Bowl
and garyl you Premian black kick was the one touchdown.
We Washington ran all the way back and we lost
fourteen seven. Dolphins were seventeen.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Oh don Joy and Greasy.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
On Sundays, DC would shut down and DC's obviously, if
not the most important amongst the most important cities in
the world, and everyone would be.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Glued to their TVs or at the stadium.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I remember riding my bike to the story Ones and
no one's out, They're all watching football.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So I think that I.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Want to bring those days back and I want to
make a DC prout And it's the same would go
for Philly in London. Whatever you do, it has to
be about the fans and about the experience, and about
the players and enhancing their experience and.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Their ability to win, because winning really matters.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, let's talk about Philly for a second, because that
arena is a really interesting case study. Some twist and
turns there, twist and turns to say the least looked
for a while like you were going to go into
into a different site. You ultimately come together with an
announcement with your friends at Comcast to you know, redevelop
(11:36):
you know, very close to where you currently play there
in South Philly. What were the key moments there at
the end that got you to where you needed to be.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So the key moments were that, you know, we wanted
to build a City arena. Comcasts wanted to build an
arena out by them and do it.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
A little bit later than we did. And what we when.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
We came together that we said, again with the North
Star being what's great for Philly, what's the right thing
for Philly, we decided that we would build sooner, so
give the fan, create the fan experience sooner, and do
it in their site and do it together and then
but also redevelop the site that we had created in
(12:22):
in the Fashion Mall district right downtown and do something
great there as well. And so the city would get
you know, two for the price of one, and that
allowed for the deal to move forward, and you know,
us doing it together with basketball and hockey in the
same arena and the combined you know kind of comcasts
and HBOC that all allows us to build a better
(12:44):
arena that makes that's even greater a city, but also
develop you know, downtown and help that area as well.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
One of the awkward things was, you know, we had
we had had different perspectives and it had caused you
know a lot of i'd say debate in Philly on
both sides. And at the end, you know, Brian and
I just came together and said, look, let's just put
this behind us and and create a win win and
(13:10):
Roberts yes, and and that you know that, like like
Philly had. That took a little adjusting for the city,
but at the end of the day, the strength of
the project garnered the support of the mayor and uh
support of the city, and so we're moving forward really
quickly in a positive way.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
So, going back to your kind of Harvard business school days,
then you found an Apollo with two other partners, and
then on eleven you get into the world of sports
once you go public and Apollo you took one of
your old play from your old playbooks, Corporate Carbon from Comcast, right,
you're talking about Brian Roberts, and s Nier was probably
involved somewhere in the world there. You bought that team
(14:04):
for two hundred and eighty million dollars or so, Yes,
what was your vision? You've always had a tendency to
look around corners. Did you ever dream that the world
of sports would balloon to where it is today? And
how what has that experience kind of shaped now? The
Commander's Devil's at three twenty. How do you go from
those numbers to six and justify it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, So I would say that it would be hard
for anyone to say that they dreamed that the valuations
in sports would be where they are today. But I
felt that, you know, when we looked at the Sixers,
it started off as an emotional thing. I Apollo had
gone public. I found myself, you know, financially successful, more
than I had ever dreamed. And I had gone to Pen.
(14:47):
My dad had gone to Pen. I knew a fellow,
David Blitzer from Penn, and the Sixers were part of
a big entity that had the Flyers and the Arena
and a series of other and EDG. Schneider was managing it,
and his passion was the Flyers. He had started the Flyers,
(15:07):
and the Flyers were doing great and the Sixers were
not doing as well for many many years, and I
had been I lived through this thing, and it must
have been indeubibly in my memory. In nineteen eighty two,
the Washington football won the Super Bowl. Washington was very
divided city, both racially and as socioeconomically. Everyone came out
in the streets one ticket tape rate at senior in
(15:28):
high school, go up to Penn as a freshman I'm seventeen.
I see doctor J Moses Melamori's cheeks Andrew Tony win
the NBA title and they dominate the playoffs. And then Philly,
which was also a very challenged city. You know, tough
economics comes out in the streets, and for a moment
in time, sports brought everyone together. And I noted that
(15:49):
I never thought in my wild streams I'd be an
owner of both these teams. So I to have the
opportunity to own both these teams, it's an amazing thing.
But coming back to your question, when we bought the Sixers,
they had they had less connection with the city, and
that in teams, if you're connected with the city, if
they think you're trying to win, if you think if
(16:09):
they think you're on their side, if you're.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Doing things for the right reasons.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Generally the revenues follow, right. So at this point, the
revenues were lagging. They were near the bottom in revenues.
They were losing fifty million a year, and the NBA
was in a lockout and so they weren't even playing.
And so we put together a group and I and
we sort of decided to zig when others were zagging.
(16:34):
You know, it was a little contrarian, and we said, look,
we think that this team really matters.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
It's got a storied history.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
We think we can reconnect with Philly if we do
the right things.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And we you know, brought in a whole need.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
We bought it at two hundred and eighty million to
eighteen months, a lot of negotiations with camp guests who
were very good at their job, and took eighteen months.
And I remember the Comcast team saying, well, we're going
to schedule the arena. We do that and you'll just
get whatever. And we're like, why don't we have input
into that. So there's a million issues like that, just
like little nuanced issues that really matter, because the days
(17:07):
you get really matter.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And then we reconnected with the city.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You know, we started to win basketball games, We started
to improve the fan experience, the food, the driveway to
driveway experience. And then now you fast forward today we're
top quartile, top five and every major revenue category and
teams profitable. And then along the way, as are more
(17:33):
importantly global. The evolution of sports, right, we used to
be that you watch sports on cable, with cable become extreaming.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
People can watch sports all over the world.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
More people watch the Sixers in many cases in China
or overseas and watch them in Philly. And so the
value creation that's occurring at these leagues is obviously massive
uplift and revenue, and that's creating of growth in revenue,
which is creating some profitability. I mean, each league is different,
(18:05):
and obviously certain leagues are more profitable than others. But
over time it's allowing for the teams to invest and
enhance their experiences. And what's happening in sports is garnering
more and more attention and more and more consumer focused,
like every live events. And so the big five sports
are now global media businesses. So that all that stuff
(18:27):
has contributed. And we could talk a lot about valuation
if you want.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
It's so intriguing, Like you talked about this evolution of
growth in sports mostly driven by media and other things
gaming and real estate and holding companies and all that.
How does private equity play in this situation? Obviously, anytime
you have institution of money coming into a space, usually
their you know, evaluations rise. What's your thought on that?
And if you're on the private equity side, would you
(18:53):
get into sports?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So what's happened is sports values have rocketed up pretty
much for the big sports, and it's all different, but
certainly the NFL and the NBA leading the way, but
also the NHL and you know, certainly global soccer.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
So I think that what's happening is that the companies
the teams are getting so big that the amount of
equity and you know, the amount of leverage that the
leaves leagues allow is limited. And so for example, when
we I'll use the Commanders example, I'll give you round numbers,
and we paid obviously six billion for the Commanders, which
(19:31):
at the time everyone said was the highest price of
my I would say my credentials as a value investor
were shattered because I paid the highest price in sports.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Right, and now that price looks pretty good.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
But I think that we put up five billion of
equity right now, and I was not allowed to talk
to private equity. I had to go raise three billion
dollars and one family at a time. So I think
what the NFL would other sports, certainly the NBA and
the NHL leading the way, have done is say, okay,
(20:04):
in some form, we're gonna allow us to do show
capital in here, because if we don't, the evaluations are
going to be constrained. And we want people to still
be able to build stadiums, to enhance fan experience, to
enhance streaming, and so allowing capital in for these now
much bigger media companies to continue to improve and innovate
(20:25):
is very important. And so that's why private equity is
coming in. And obviously private equity coming in is creating
demand for investment.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
So that's lifting the sports team values well.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And to that point, I mean that we can talk
real numbers here. You know, you buy it for six
billion in change, and you know within a year or so,
year two, you've got NFL teams Dolphins and Eagles selling
stakes valuing them upwards of eight billion dollars. So where
(20:57):
does that go? I mean, so you know, put on
your you know, your Apollo trained hat, your Drexel trained hat,
your hbs like six North, twenty six north, all of
the things that you do. What does it do to
valuations going forward? Like look around the corner, As Alex said,
you're very good at looking around the corner. Look around
the corner in evaluations for us.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So I think the way I think about is this,
there's a scarcity value that is associated with these teams. Right,
So you know, there's a small number of people in
the world that can lead these deals, and there's only
you know, thirty there's only thirty two.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
It depends on the league.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
And so one of the things that's happening is that
people want to own the teams.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
They want to be involved in it.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
They want to be part of building, creating memories for
cities and winning and competing. And so I thought when
I bought the Commanders that I was going to be
outbid by Jeff Bezos. Just to be very direct about it,
it was rumored that he was interested, and obviously he doesn't.
You know, for me to put together a five million
(22:03):
dire equity count is much harder than for someone of
his wealth to put together. He can just stroke a
check and do it. Right, So I thought I would lose,
but it was a labor of love. I really felt
it needed to happen, and you know, God smiled, I
guess on me.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
But my point being that that part of the valuation
uplift is just the scarcy value.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
But I would say the second thing is that as
revenues grow, cashital will grow, right, So I think a
good analogy is, you know, beach front real estate, where
if teams are losing money, it'll limit the number of
people that are willing to lose money consistently. If teams
start to make money or make increasing amounts of money, then.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
It draws in people.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And you know, I look at it as in the
case of the NFL, which is the most profitable league
right now, we think that you know, we're buying at
a real cap rate of three to four going to
five to six. So even though that sounds like a
very high ebit domultiple, I look at it as like
cash flow yield, and the NFL and the NBA and
(23:04):
the NHL and all these leagues are incredible businesses. They're dominant,
and in our culture it's live entertainment. They're growing, there's
lots of innovation. So I look at as growth equity,
and then most of the cash flow is guaranteed by
massive media and technology companies, so that you know, it's
(23:24):
almost like you get this yield and then you participate
in the growth and the scarcity value of evaluation. So
and if you look at it, the only thing that's
done better than private equity.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Honestly, if you go back is sports valuation.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
So I'll just throw out the NFL numbers, the bills,
you know, a billion, three, a billion four, the Panthers
two two two three, Broncos in twenty twenty two four
to six US at six and now, so that's four
x and ten years. And now you start to hear
about some of the things, and I think they'll be
trades even higher than what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Those are coming at.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Ten billion, you think, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I think there could be stuff in the nine to
ten range. I mean, it's all coming together, I think
eventually for sure. And so I think that, but I'm
saying near term literally, and that's only been I mean
we bought the club coming up on two years ago, right,
So I think that.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So maybe you are a value investor here.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I'm a value investor in the in terms of the
growth equity R yeah, and so I think there's.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
A growth equity.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I think it's also unique and it's backstop by media
and as long as you think people are gonna want
the content and we have long term media deals. And
also it's very resilient economically, right, So certainly if there's
harder times not as many people will come to the
games or whatever, but the media payments are locked in.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
That's you know, the majority of the revenue.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And even in harder times, people want something to celebrate.
So I think these are fundamentally great businesses. They're also
inflation resistant, right, like if inflation goes up, So when
you talk about cap rate, it's a you know, three
to six real cap rate, that's a reasonable that'll be
go up and down and be inflation resistant. So I
think they are really good businesses, and I think they
(25:15):
are actually interesting investments, and I think it will keep
going on.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Should June, we can arguably say nobody reads a piano
better than you. You're a piano savant. My question is
very specific, do you value more ebadah or free cash flow?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
And why it's all free cash flow? I mean ebadah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Even in private equity, everyone talks about ibada. Generally they're
looking at free cash flow. It's just a proxy for
free cash flow. And since many businesses have different capitals spending,
you know, ebada is just a way to say, hey,
six times eba da. But ultimately everyone who I guess,
who knows what they're doing, is looking at free cash flow.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
In terms of the Commanders.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, we we felt that the Commanders used to be
the number one franchise in the NFL for many many years.
So everyone says, Dallas is that I'm franchise number one
in terms of revenue?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Revenue? Is that right?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
While yeah, and for many years and then you know,
obviously they didn't do as well. So when you looked
at we when we bought the Commanders, they were in
the twenties out of thirty two. And so if we
get them to league average, we'll double the EBA dah
and you're not comment on your numbers. And then if
(26:22):
we with the new media deal will triple it. And
if we build a new stadium, we'll cut you know,
it'll we have to invest, but we'll get some push
off and excute and execute.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So I think that, you know, we think we are.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
In the process of enhancing the Commanders. But again it's
all about doing it for the city and not worrying
about it. But when you do that, and a lot
of it is just driven by the media uplift, right,
that just.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Comes from the upward trend in media.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Certainly the NBA deal which was two point seven x
over eleven years. It makes it look like NFL content
is severely undervalue and there's uplift there, right, So you
can now without even factoring that in, we feel like
we're going to get increased cash.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So many Molti and you guys have an out that
which is going to be good time.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, I'll leave that one to the league, but yeah, no,
and then you have to make your case like you're
making your case. If you think about the Commander's ownership
group Mittrails, who build arguably one of the best companies
in America, Donner you know, obviously Magic Johnson, and then
a whole bunch of other people that are very shrewd investors,
(27:34):
including some people on Wall Street. They want to be
part of it, right, but at the same time they
want to understand, Okay, what's the return here, Why should
I you know, write a check? And again the you know,
obviously it's being part of an NFL franchise, there's a
limit to how many people you can accept, and so
we had to ask people for really significant investments. So
(27:56):
they certainly wanted to know how it was going to work, right,
and we were able to say we're going to win
for the city we're going to spend, We're going to invest.
But here's why we think that the value of the
equity will go up.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
And a lot of it has to do.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
With all the things we've talked about here, the upward
trend in sports values, the scarcy value, but also our
ability to move the Commanders back to being relevant for
the DMV again and therefore fill up the stadium which
was empty, get sponsors back, and make feel great about
being part of the Commanders again.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah. So I'm glad you went there because I wanted
to talk about some of the some of the ways
you've changed running the actual business. So this report card,
everybody looks at the report card now from the NFL
Players Association and you know that all too well, this
franchise was dead last Wow, now moved up to eleventh.
That's a huge, huge move, and that you know, just
(28:53):
for people out there, this is you know, based on
player feedback. You know, this is what the players say
about about their team. Were there one or two things
that you set out to do or that you, looking back,
did that made that number jump and that rank jump
as much as it did.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
So, first of all, when you run a sports team
and you're an owner. Your three most important jobs hiring
a GM, hiring a coach, hiring a president to run
the business operations, and making them incredibly talented and like
mind in terms of values.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
By the way, this owner is nodding, right, let's taking
note exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, you don't want to be I mean, ultimately right,
there's just a thousand things that decisions that are made,
and you should not want I do not have the inclination.
I don't want to be involved in all thousand. I
want to be involved in the most important decisions. And
then I want people who have the same vision that
I do, which is too it's really a servant leader mindset,
(29:56):
like do this on behalf of the city or on
behalf of the players. So, Peter as dan Quinn, you know,
obviously Mark Claus from Campos is an amazing gut for us.
But then as starts specifically answering your question, you know
the facilities that the players were showering and playing in
weight training in when we showed up, there wasn't even
(30:19):
a game clock. Our bubble was deflating, and so we
just literally said that you know, what you want to
do is become a destination for players. Look, there's a
relatively small amount of people who can play, or coach
or be in the front office of major sports, and
so your job is to become a destination where they
(30:40):
feel like they matter, you care about them. And the
way that you articulate that is to create amazing facilities
to make their lives easier. And so we've rebuilt everything
from showers to locker rooms, to weight facilities to food,
and we really showed them that we cared about them.
(31:02):
To how they travel. I mean, think about it. If
you have to travel all over the place and you're
not being staying in a nice hotel or you're not
traveling on a great plan, that's gonna make a huge
difference in your life.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
And so people think that the players, I mean ou
because you were a player.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Everything you're saying is spot on it. Yeah, these are
the things I'm really mad to us right.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Think about it.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
There were probably some owners where you know, you felt like, came,
my life is harder, and some owners where you felt like, Hey,
this guy really.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Or this person really cares about me.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
In addition to I mean, obviously, you know, each player
wants to get compensated fairly and that's all part of it.
But a lot of great players, I mean great players
taken play wherever they want, right, So your job is
to attract them and make them feel welcome. And that
starts with the front office and the coaches, but it
also goes to their facilities. And so what we've spent
one hundred and twenty five million dollars across the stadium
(31:53):
and the player of facilities. And again, I think that
you win in sports by I don't think this is
like it's a growth as I said, I analogize it
to growth equity, cutting back stuff, skimping. I don't think
that's right. In sports, you're entertaining and you're attracting talent,
so you've got to be like first classed every step
(32:15):
of the way. And that's why it improved.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
I think that the players.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I engage enough with the players and the coaches that
they know that I'm there for them. And when they notice, hey,
you know, the food's not great or something else. If
you saw, like, for example, there's only like one cold plunge, right,
so it's a are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Right?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
It turns out, by the way that you know a
cause that cold plunge the normal cold plunge costs about
six thousand hours.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
You have to get a special.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Coal punch and then one's a big yeah. Yeah, so
it's a it's more excelessive. But I said, go get it, get.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
It, like, are you kidding me? I love the cold bunch.
I did it every day, I do it. But I
did it before.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
You're okay, So, Josh, you said you don't want to
make a minute decision.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
That obviously makes all the sense in the world. You're
hiring the best people, you're paying them, well, they're aligned
with your vision. How often do you kind of sit
down on a zoom? Is it once a week, twice
a week to get a report on what's going on
with the numbers X Y Z.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, so it's it's as needed.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
And then you know the great thing about sports is
that you do a lot of games.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
So you got a lot of games, so we're I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
There a lot and you know, obviously when you're building
a stadium, when you're around the draft, when you're a
free agency, when there's things going on, you're there a
lot more. And what we do is we have a
standing call and stuff happens right like there can be
stuff that happens your arena that requires immediate attention.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
You can't ignore. And you know, stuff happens in.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
The world, right, George Floyd, like we you know, immediately
we're on the phone, like we need to put out
a statement.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
This is wrong.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
But that requires you as an owner, right, that's the
values of the org and you have to like see
what I mean. I went on YouTube right and said, okay,
let me what really happened here? Right, if I'm going
to stand or you know, when October seventh happened, you
know kind of you know, getting the leagues and the
teams to support, you know, and empathize with the people.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
That were killed.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
So I think that all these things happen, and you
just have to be on call twenty four to seven
and be, you know, in essence on call for the
public and do your job. And you know it's as
needed and so it you know, in the off season
when nothing's going on, it is once a week, but
then it's a lot more than that.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And so that talk about that public facing piece, because
you know, you're sitting across from a guy who was
like you know, on the cover of magazines. He was
he was he was in the public right public, sometimes
for better, sometimes for worse. Since the age of you know, fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen years old, you were able to go through much.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Of your career.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I know who you were, but it was my job.
You know, I was at Bloomberg, so you were a
star athlete and in my mind and in that regard,
but owning a team where everybody knows your name, where
you're sitting courtside or you're sitting in the box, what
is that transition? Like? How do you cope with that?
Especially I'll say it out loud. Owning a football team
in Washington and a basketball team in Philadelphia. These are
(35:25):
not cities that love each other.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I think that you have to embrace if you want
to do this as a managing owner, as the control owner,
you need to embrace the fact that you're now a
public figure, and that comes with all of the issues
that you might think that Alex has lived with. But
people come up to you, people interrupt you and want
(35:47):
to talk about the team, good and bad. Obviously pretty
happy people in Washington and you know we you know,
less happy in other locations this particular year, and you
have to be you know, even signing autographs, and then
you know there's you know, you all of a sudden,
you know, you in some cases need security when you
(36:08):
go into enemy territory maybe.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And and then you know, everything you do plays out
on the front page, you know, in the paper, right,
So you have to be righteous in your behavior. So
if you're not prepared to be righteous in your behavior
and do things that the people can relate to on
the front page of the paper, then you probably shouldn't
do it. And there's no way around it. And I
didn't really realize what I was signing up for, Honestly,
(36:31):
I had never been through it like Alex and you know, certainly,
you know, could probably write three books on the subject.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, and then it starts to you know, your family
starts to get known. I mean, all that stuff. But
I'd say that that just comes with it, and for
good it for bad. And we own clubs, own teams
in really tough cities like Philly. Fans are amazing, they care,
but they're you know, they they take no prisoners, right,
and they hold up accountable.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And certainly when the Commanders played the Eagles in the
NFC Championship, I tried to explain to everyone that if
you just grew up in South Philly, I understand why
you're all about Philly sports.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
But I grew up in Washington and Philly.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
My mom was from Philly, my grandmother's from Philly, but
I grew up in Washington. Then I went to pen
when I was seventeen, and I saw these two teams,
and I love these two teams, and so I tried
to explain myself, and I'd.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Say ninety seven percent of the fans got up.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
But there's there's gonna be some fans that are just
because of that, you know, And I understand that, right,
and that's just something that I have to live with.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
But today, like there are a lot.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Of people increasingly these are big businesses, and more and
more you're gonna see people owning whether it's the cron
Keys or Fenway Sports or you know, you're gonna see
people owning teams in different cities, certainly the Glazers. So
this is isn't a unique thing, but certainly in a
city like phil which really cares about sports and I respect,
(38:05):
it definitely is something you have to manage.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
You weren't surprised at the vitriol.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I mean, honestly, I don't believe there was that much.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
I think there are any situation the loud there'll be
a few loud voices and then buy and large. Like
I think that we have invested in the sixers we had.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
The sixers have won.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
They have not won the NBA Championship, which we needed
to liver for the city. We're, you know, trying to
do the right things by the city. And you know,
if the loud voice is on Twitter, you just can't.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You can't, you can't get try injuries.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
You won't say it. I'll say it because I'm your
partner in the NBA. I think you've done an extraordinary
job with the NBA. But Josh, I want to kind
of rewind a little bit back to you know, I
don't know you much like Jason knows you on the
private equity world. I know you most friendly what you
do with philanthropy as much as anybody. I'm always fascinated
with how you balance your schedule because I know what
you're doing the world of business. But disclaimer, are kids
(39:01):
go to school together, and Peters and Ella are very
good friends, and they're both juniors in high school. And
I see how committed you are to your family. You
have five kids, how do you balance everything? And how
important is your family to what you're doing the business world?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
So my found is incredibly important to me.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
So I have five priorities and I try to cut
everything else out. And so first of all, your health.
So we talked about cold plunging. If you're not getting
if you're not getting enough sleep, if you're not eating well,
you're not going to be good. We all uys have
to be on so much and so you need to
bring it every day, and so making sure that you're
well and taking care of yourself spiritually and physically is good.
(39:39):
Then for me, it's my family, and I try to
spend as much time with my family as they'll spend
with me, which.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Is sometimes the kids like that.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Where thanks though.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And then it's business right, and business for me is
I look at business as how do you impact the
world in a positive way. I think that business is
a is a real force for good. I think that
in twenty six North we own a lot of companies
and finance a lot of companies, and we manage money
for retirees and pensioners right, and so our job is
(40:13):
to bring it and win and create returns for millions
of beneficiaries by creating alpha. Right, That's how I look
at it, and I sell it to our team as
bigger than ourselves.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
But then also sports, and in.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Sports, look I own sports teams, I managed twenty six North.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
I grew up in the finance business.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Just because you're good at private equity, and I think
some people get confused, doesn't mean you should be picking
the line up the starting lineup for the Washington Commanders
or the Philadelphia seventy six ers. But so I spend
you know, more of my time where I'm the CEO
of twenty six North, but I spent a lot of
time on sports to spend and I work all the time,
so I'm probably you know, twenty hours on sports sixty
(40:59):
hours on business right now.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I need to get that down.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
And people don't understand how difficult and grueling businesses. Even
through my twenty five year career, sometimes it's more exhausting
to do the business and to travel and to like
keep up with hundreds of people that work for you.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
It's just a lot. It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
And at this point I want people on my teams
that are aligned with me culturally where they want to
bring it right, Like, so I don't. In everything that
I do, it's about creating this culture of like we're
in this to win for the city, the pensioners, and
we're up against in the case of alternatives, it could
(41:38):
be you know, any any of the big firms, and
or in the case of sports, it could be the
Celtics or the Eagles or whoever it is. And so like,
you got to bring it. You got to take care
of yourself. But if you need to be on that
ten o'clock p reference call, unless you want to do that,
like you're probably not.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
We're probably not going to be. And then you have
to be really good at your job. And so these
cultures actually can be quite similar.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
And then our last thing is for all these I
find now later in life that people that are nice,
like you know, we have codes of conduct and morality
and on that, but people that are genuinely good, people
that care about other people are much better to have
around the ecosystem. So you can be really good at
your job, but you may not be the nicest person, right,
(42:26):
So as much as you can getting people that are
about other people, that's a big part of it. As well,
and so more of my time on twenty six North,
but as needed on sports, and I'll be there when
I'm needed.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
But you know, one of the interesting things is, as
you think about this expanding sports portfolio that sort of
come to the four in Philly specifically, is an area
that you haven't been in it as much and I
think you want to be in, which is women's sports.
A WNBA expansion team, I believe is sort of part
of the business case for the new arena. Talk to about,
(43:00):
you know, as a growth investor, you know what's the
case there.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
So I think we're in an as extential moment in
women's sports. I think that women are half the people
on the planet and sports was really important to me personally,
and there's no reason why women shouldn't be doing that
as much as men. And now you've seen a breakout
in the NWSL, You've seen a breakout in global soccer.
(43:23):
You know Palace, we have a Palace women's team at
the highest level, and you know, obviously the NBA, the
WNBA is breaking out and I don't believe it's just
I mean, the NBA broke out obviously around you know,
Will Chimbin or Michael Jordan. But it was just it
was a tailwind, right. It wasn't just that it just
stair stepped it. And I think that's where we are
(43:44):
in women's sports. And I think if you're going to
be in a major sport that really matters to a city,
you should have an adjunct women's team in some of
these sports.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
And so we're engaged with the NBA.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
We hope that they will allow Philly to be, you know,
in the w NBA and having very productive dialogues. And
I think that we also are seeing it. We have
a platform called Unrivaled, which is something I started with
David Blitzer that Andy Campion now runs, and Unrivaled as
(44:19):
a U sports we run camps and leagues and clinics,
and we're seeing a lot across baseball, football, action sports,
and we're seeing a lot of girls wanting to play
flag football. And so I see that as another big
lift in on sports. And I think this is this
is going to be around for a long time.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
And more and more it's going to grow.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
All Right, now it's time for rapid fire. We're doing
ten questions are a tough question to playful, all right,
what's one word to describe your deal making style flexible?
Speaker 4 (45:02):
What's more important to you in a deal your gut
or data?
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Data?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 3 (45:09):
David Blitzer?
Speaker 4 (45:10):
What's the best piece of advice you've received on deal
making or business?
Speaker 3 (45:14):
You know you can't do a good deal with a
bad person.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
What's the worst advice you've been given?
Speaker 3 (45:21):
If you pay a low enough price, you can make
it work.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
What's Josh Harris's hype song before you go into a
big meeting or negotiation?
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Oh? Coldplay? Oh? I like that good.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
What's one word to describe this past season for the
Commanders joyous?
Speaker 4 (45:40):
There's a tough one, Josh. If you're going to be
watched one sport for the rest of your life, which
one is it?
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I can't pick one, kid, I can't pick one sport.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
All right, We'll give you a pass on that one
because you're involved in way too many, too many kids.
This one, this one is going to be similarly tough.
I feel another paths coming on. What team do you
want to see win a championship more than any.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I like all of our teams to win championships.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I mean, honestly, that's what we're supposed to be doing
all of them.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
And last question, if someone wanted to have a career
like Josh Harris, what advice would you give them?
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Just you know, bring it, Do something that you love
and you know it's not a straight line.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Keep going.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Life's gonna serve a lot of curve balls. You may
miss a few, but you know, have a vision in
your mind. Shoot high and if you miss a little bit,
you're still gonna be way better off than you were before.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
All Right, this was really fun. Thank you for spending
this great with us, great fun.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
Thanks.
Speaker 6 (46:49):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Anamazarakus Phillip and Stacy Wong.
Original music and engineering by Blake Maples. David E. Ravella
is our managing editor. Our executive producers are Jason Kelly,
(47:10):
Brendan Francis, Newnham, Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Andrew Barden, Kelly Leferrier,
and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is our head of Podcasts.
Rubob Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from
Jacqueline Kessler. Joshua Devaux is our director of photography. Camera
operation by Geronimo Galbussa, Angela Reyes Latta and gian carlos
(47:35):
Zevaios antel Steinback is our gaffer, and Lavelle Higgins is
our grip. Our sound operator is Ivan Alexandrov. Listen to
the Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts. You can also tune into the video Companion
on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
All Right, we're here in Miami for a massive episode.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Of The Deal. Josh Harris.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
I mean, when you think about team owners, he is
the guy. He has a playbook for having multiple teams
in multiple cities. Think about the Commanders, the Sixers. I'm
going to be taking a.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Lot of notes. What a time to be talking to him.
He is just passed announcing a huge deal for a
new stadium in Washington, d C.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Three point eight billion dollars. I cannot wait to get
into the details.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Tons to talk about. Let's get after it. This is
an interview we have had circled for a long time.
Josh Harris. I could spend the entirety of the episode
talking about all the different things that you do. Welcome
(00:59):
to the deal.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Great to be here, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
All Right, so sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart.
We're talking to you days removed from really one of
the biggest deals that's happened in sports in a long time,
the announcement of a new stadium in Washington, d C.
We've got a lot to talk about, but let's start there.
What do you make of it? Like, how substantial. How
seismic is this in your sports life?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, it's seismic, I think for the city, for the DMV,
for DC. DC's obviously incredibly important city and you know,
I grew up there.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I grew up in Chevy Chase, Maryland.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
And to be able to bring football back to RFK Stadium,
the spiritual home of Washington football, of the Commanders, and
you know, build a next generation, world class venue, and
obviously venues are advancing, the technology is advancing, the fan
experience is advancing, and then you know, it's not just
(01:57):
a football venue. We're gonna put a dome on it.
We're gonna make it about football, but we still put
a dome on. It's very important the city that they
be able to host massive events like the Super Bowl.
Maybe we're now we gonna push Roger on that, but
you know, you know whatever, Beyonce, you know, pick an
event and d C obviously is a gateway city for
(02:21):
the United States.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So it'll make d C great and proud.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And then not only that, it's two point ten billion
doire stadium, but it's a three point eight billion dollar
including all the stuff that's gonna happen with the infrastructure
and everything. And then there's the stadium itself is about
fifteen percent of the overall ground.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
You're I don't know if you ever been down there, but.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
You got the capital and the monument you can see it.
You got the Anocostia River, and then it's a fifteen
minute bike ride to National's Park the Navy Yard. So
you're gonna redevelop a lot of neighborhoods with d C
affordable housing, you have a whole bunch of part and
then you know, retail mixed use, uh and so you're
(03:05):
going to really change those areas in a really positive way.
And DC's had an amazing they've done this in the past.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's incredible actually and really exciting to be able to
engage with a city and help a city.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It is a massive deal. It's on a scale that
you know, we we haven't seen in a long time.
I mean, take us inside if you can, and sort
of getting it done, Like what were the what were
the key issues that you had to overcome? I mean
you were looking at multiple sites. DC emerges, you know,
as the as the winner. Ultimately there's a lot going on,
as you said in Washington, what was the key decision
(03:41):
point for you and really getting this done.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Okay, So we play in Maryland today.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
The team has played in Maryland since the nineties, like
the late nineties. And you know, obviously the DMV is
is DC Maryland Virginia. D c's in the middle, right,
so rfk's in the middle, so Maryland right for Virginia
fans a further.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
But we play in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And so the first thing we had to do is
sure all through the process Governor Moore, who really cares
about landover the government of Maryland, you know, he wanted
to make sure that you know, we said to him, look,
we have to consider d C because it's the spiritual
home of the commanders. And he said, look, I'm willing
to let you consider that and be generous about how
(04:24):
you allow you to have some options, but you need
to convince me that you're gonna, you know, build something
in Maryland if you decide to leave. And so we
concluded a deal with the governor and that allowed for
the project to be the land to be transferred to
d C. So I don't know if you remember, but
as the last Congress, with sunsetting, we got one hundred
(04:46):
zero vote.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
In the Senate.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yes, the land was under federal control until the land
was under DC control, and then it wasn't possible to
build a stadium from there. We had negotiations going with
a lot of different parties, and you know, we'll blessed
that everyone wants the commanders and ultimately concluded to deal
with the mayor that would be highly beneficial for d C.
(05:11):
And at two point seven billion, which is what we're
putting up, it's the largest investment in DC ever.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So it's the largest investment in DC's history.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
And so once the mayor decided that it was okay,
we signed a term sheet with the mayor and now
we're working.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
With the DC City Council.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Who I mean, the project has incredible ROI for DC.
Literally billions of tax revenues, thousands of homes, and thousands
of jobs, right and so.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
In affordable homes. And of that thirty.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Percent are by agreement, going to be at least that
will be affordable homes. And so it's going to raise
the standard. And then you get an amazing entertainment district.
And I mean, who's not going to play in a
new stadium with the backdrop being literally the capital and
then you get the redevelopment on the Anacostia River.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
So this is going to change DC.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And so I'm hopeful that the Council is doing its work.
A number of the of ours are already supporting that,
but we have some work to do. So now the
next step for us is to obviously get the council's vote.
You've got to tell the citizens and the politicians, you know,
why this is good for the city, why they should
invest their money in this. And the reality is DC
(06:35):
is going through a harder time right now, and we
were very sensitive that and made sure that this deal
was very good for DC.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
But I'm also.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Focused on making it a place where our opponents fear
to come, which is how this I grew up, and
where our fans love to come. And you know, our
RFK right was you know, it was incredible. I mean
the stands would shake, and it was a smaller arena,
but it was loud and you know, people showed up.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, I want to talk even more broadly about you've
got multiple arena projects going on literally around the world.
But before we get there, how do you balance the
sort of private and public funds of it all. I mean,
this has been like one of the substantial questions around
developing stadiums. How did you come to sort of the
calculus there?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, so if you look at the calculus, we had
to make sure that it was very favorable to DC.
And so because that's definitely something that people consider. They
sometimes there's the ROI of a stadium, but they also
want to know, Okay, how much is the city contributing?
And the RFK site has been sitting there since they
closed RMK and it's like crumbling concrete. I mean, it's
(07:44):
it's it's not great, right, there's nothing there, nothing's been
done with it, you know, and generating zero for zerojenning
zero and actually costing money to make sure it's safe
because it's just an open air thing and you know
there are you know, pasts and everything else. So whatever
they do, whatever DC decides that they're gonna have to
put a bunch of money into that site, just you know,
(08:05):
creating sewage and infrastructure and other things. And then we
paid for everything else. And when you and when you
benchmarkt you know there's actually articles that say, wow, did
the commanders get a good enough deal? And you know,
we're getting criticized, which I guess if that's the criticism
people are leveling at me.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
The criticism is that you didn't get into.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
The criticism in certain NFL sports. I've heard that. I've
heard that.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, So like I'll take that criticism because on the
other side of that, we have to convince d C
and the public that it's fair, and we have to
convince the council that it's fair and that and the
mayor has to sell it, and the public is overwhelmingly supportive,
which I think should help us. I mean, I think
that usually these things are more controversial, but everyone who
(08:53):
grew up in d C or in the DMV knows
that they remember what a great place are was and
how unifying it was, and what it was like when
Washington football was dominant in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
And I think we can bring it there again.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
So you've been a dealmaker for a long time. A
lot of the deals you seem to be doing right
now are for stadiums and arenas. You have a deal
that we'd love to talk about to build a new
arena in South Philly. Then you've got a big project
in South London with Crystal Palace, the football club that
you're an owner of as well, what's the common thread there?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Well, so the common thread is building amazing fan experience,
player experience, and something that helps the cities. Right, So
you're ultimately in finance, you're a steward of people's capital.
In sports, you're steward of people's memories and how they feel,
(09:51):
how the commanders do, how the teams play, makes the
city happy or the area happy, and then you have
to treat everyone incredibly well. And so if you start
with that as a premise and you say I'm going
to be guided, my north start is going to be
how do we create amazing memories? I had amazing memories
at RFK. I remember some of my earliest memories. I
(10:13):
remember being four years old, I mean literally four years
old and walking in there with my dad and you know,
just hearing it all, and I don't.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Remember a lot about it.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
But then I remember being eight and Washington football losing
to the Dolphins fourteen to seven in the Super Bowl
and garyl you Premian black kick was the one touchdown.
We Washington ran all the way back and we lost
fourteen seven. Dolphins were seventeen.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Oh don Joy and Greasy.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
On Sundays, DC would shut down and DC's obviously, if
not the most important amongst the most important cities in
the world, and everyone would be.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Glued to their TVs or at the stadium.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I remember riding my bike to the story Ones and
no one's out, They're all watching football.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So I think that I.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Want to bring those days back and I want to
make a DC prout And it's the same would go
for Philly in London. Whatever you do, it has to
be about the fans and about the experience, and about
the players and enhancing their experience and.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Their ability to win, because winning really matters.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, let's talk about Philly for a second, because that
arena is a really interesting case study. Some twist and
turns there, twist and turns to say the least looked
for a while like you were going to go into
into a different site. You ultimately come together with an
announcement with your friends at Comcast to you know, redevelop
(11:36):
you know, very close to where you currently play there
in South Philly. What were the key moments there at
the end that got you to where you needed to be.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So the key moments were that, you know, we wanted
to build a City arena. Comcasts wanted to build an
arena out by them and do it.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
A little bit later than we did. And what we when.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
We came together that we said, again with the North
Star being what's great for Philly, what's the right thing
for Philly, we decided that we would build sooner, so
give the fan, create the fan experience sooner, and do
it in their site and do it together and then
but also redevelop the site that we had created in
(12:22):
in the Fashion Mall district right downtown and do something
great there as well. And so the city would get
you know, two for the price of one, and that
allowed for the deal to move forward, and you know,
us doing it together with basketball and hockey in the
same arena and the combined you know kind of comcasts
and HBOC that all allows us to build a better
(12:44):
arena that makes that's even greater a city, but also
develop you know, downtown and help that area as well.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
One of the awkward things was, you know, we had
we had had different perspectives and it had caused you
know a lot of i'd say debate in Philly on
both sides. And at the end, you know, Brian and
I just came together and said, look, let's just put
this behind us and and create a win win and
(13:10):
Roberts yes, and and that you know that, like like
Philly had. That took a little adjusting for the city,
but at the end of the day, the strength of
the project garnered the support of the mayor and uh
support of the city, and so we're moving forward really
quickly in a positive way.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
So, going back to your kind of Harvard business school days,
then you found an Apollo with two other partners, and
then on eleven you get into the world of sports
once you go public and Apollo you took one of
your old play from your old playbooks, Corporate Carbon from Comcast, right,
you're talking about Brian Roberts, and s Nier was probably
involved somewhere in the world there. You bought that team
(14:04):
for two hundred and eighty million dollars or so, Yes,
what was your vision? You've always had a tendency to
look around corners. Did you ever dream that the world
of sports would balloon to where it is today? And
how what has that experience kind of shaped now? The
Commander's Devil's at three twenty. How do you go from
those numbers to six and justify it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, So I would say that it would be hard
for anyone to say that they dreamed that the valuations
in sports would be where they are today. But I
felt that, you know, when we looked at the Sixers,
it started off as an emotional thing. I Apollo had
gone public. I found myself, you know, financially successful, more
than I had ever dreamed. And I had gone to Pen.
(14:47):
My dad had gone to Pen. I knew a fellow,
David Blitzer from Penn, and the Sixers were part of
a big entity that had the Flyers and the Arena
and a series of other and EDG. Schneider was managing it,
and his passion was the Flyers. He had started the Flyers,
(15:07):
and the Flyers were doing great and the Sixers were
not doing as well for many many years, and I
had been I lived through this thing, and it must
have been indeubibly in my memory. In nineteen eighty two,
the Washington football won the Super Bowl. Washington was very
divided city, both racially and as socioeconomically. Everyone came out
in the streets one ticket tape rate at senior in
(15:28):
high school, go up to Penn as a freshman I'm seventeen.
I see doctor J Moses Melamori's cheeks Andrew Tony win
the NBA title and they dominate the playoffs. And then Philly,
which was also a very challenged city. You know, tough
economics comes out in the streets, and for a moment
in time, sports brought everyone together. And I noted that
(15:49):
I never thought in my wild streams I'd be an
owner of both these teams. So I to have the
opportunity to own both these teams, it's an amazing thing.
But coming back to your question, when we bought the Sixers,
they had they had less connection with the city, and
that in teams, if you're connected with the city, if
they think you're trying to win, if you think if
(16:09):
they think you're on their side, if you're.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Doing things for the right reasons.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Generally the revenues follow, right. So at this point, the
revenues were lagging. They were near the bottom in revenues.
They were losing fifty million a year, and the NBA
was in a lockout and so they weren't even playing.
And so we put together a group and I and
we sort of decided to zig when others were zagging.
(16:34):
You know, it was a little contrarian, and we said, look,
we think that this team really matters.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
It's got a storied history.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
We think we can reconnect with Philly if we do
the right things.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And we you know, brought in a whole need.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
We bought it at two hundred and eighty million to
eighteen months, a lot of negotiations with camp guests who
were very good at their job, and took eighteen months.
And I remember the Comcast team saying, well, we're going
to schedule the arena. We do that and you'll just
get whatever. And we're like, why don't we have input
into that. So there's a million issues like that, just
like little nuanced issues that really matter, because the days
(17:07):
you get really matter.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And then we reconnected with the city.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You know, we started to win basketball games, We started
to improve the fan experience, the food, the driveway to
driveway experience. And then now you fast forward today we're
top quartile, top five and every major revenue category and
teams profitable. And then along the way, as are more
(17:33):
importantly global. The evolution of sports, right, we used to
be that you watch sports on cable, with cable become extreaming.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
People can watch sports all over the world.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
More people watch the Sixers in many cases in China
or overseas and watch them in Philly. And so the
value creation that's occurring at these leagues is obviously massive
uplift and revenue, and that's creating of growth in revenue,
which is creating some profitability. I mean, each league is different,
(18:05):
and obviously certain leagues are more profitable than others. But
over time it's allowing for the teams to invest and
enhance their experiences. And what's happening in sports is garnering
more and more attention and more and more consumer focused,
like every live events. And so the big five sports
are now global media businesses. So that all that stuff
(18:27):
has contributed. And we could talk a lot about valuation
if you want.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
It's so intriguing, Like you talked about this evolution of
growth in sports mostly driven by media and other things
gaming and real estate and holding companies and all that.
How does private equity play in this situation? Obviously, anytime
you have institution of money coming into a space, usually
their you know, evaluations rise. What's your thought on that?
And if you're on the private equity side, would you
(18:53):
get into sports?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So what's happened is sports values have rocketed up pretty
much for the big sports, and it's all different, but
certainly the NFL and the NBA leading the way, but
also the NHL and you know, certainly global soccer.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
So I think that what's happening is that the companies
the teams are getting so big that the amount of
equity and you know, the amount of leverage that the
leaves leagues allow is limited. And so for example, when
we I'll use the Commanders example, I'll give you round numbers,
and we paid obviously six billion for the Commanders, which
(19:31):
at the time everyone said was the highest price of
my I would say my credentials as a value investor
were shattered because I paid the highest price in sports.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Right, and now that price looks pretty good.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
But I think that we put up five billion of
equity right now, and I was not allowed to talk
to private equity. I had to go raise three billion
dollars and one family at a time. So I think
what the NFL would other sports, certainly the NBA and
the NHL leading the way, have done is say, okay,
(20:04):
in some form, we're gonna allow us to do show
capital in here, because if we don't, the evaluations are
going to be constrained. And we want people to still
be able to build stadiums, to enhance fan experience, to
enhance streaming, and so allowing capital in for these now
much bigger media companies to continue to improve and innovate
(20:25):
is very important. And so that's why private equity is
coming in. And obviously private equity coming in is creating
demand for investment.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
So that's lifting the sports team values well.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And to that point, I mean that we can talk
real numbers here. You know, you buy it for six
billion in change, and you know within a year or so,
year two, you've got NFL teams Dolphins and Eagles selling
stakes valuing them upwards of eight billion dollars. So where
(20:57):
does that go? I mean, so you know, put on
your you know, your Apollo trained hat, your Drexel trained hat,
your hbs like six North, twenty six north, all of
the things that you do. What does it do to
valuations going forward? Like look around the corner, As Alex said,
you're very good at looking around the corner. Look around
the corner in evaluations for us.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So I think the way I think about is this,
there's a scarcity value that is associated with these teams. Right,
So you know, there's a small number of people in
the world that can lead these deals, and there's only
you know, thirty there's only thirty two.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
It depends on the league.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
And so one of the things that's happening is that
people want to own the teams.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
They want to be involved in it.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
They want to be part of building, creating memories for
cities and winning and competing. And so I thought when
I bought the Commanders that I was going to be
outbid by Jeff Bezos. Just to be very direct about it,
it was rumored that he was interested, and obviously he doesn't.
You know, for me to put together a five million
(22:03):
dire equity count is much harder than for someone of
his wealth to put together. He can just stroke a
check and do it. Right, So I thought I would lose,
but it was a labor of love. I really felt
it needed to happen, and you know, God smiled, I
guess on me.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
But my point being that that part of the valuation
uplift is just the scarcy value.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
But I would say the second thing is that as
revenues grow, cashital will grow, right, So I think a
good analogy is, you know, beach front real estate, where
if teams are losing money, it'll limit the number of
people that are willing to lose money consistently. If teams
start to make money or make increasing amounts of money, then.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
It draws in people.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And you know, I look at it as in the
case of the NFL, which is the most profitable league
right now, we think that you know, we're buying at
a real cap rate of three to four going to
five to six. So even though that sounds like a
very high ebit domultiple, I look at it as like
cash flow yield, and the NFL and the NBA and
(23:04):
the NHL and all these leagues are incredible businesses. They're dominant,
and in our culture it's live entertainment. They're growing, there's
lots of innovation. So I look at as growth equity,
and then most of the cash flow is guaranteed by
massive media and technology companies, so that you know, it's
(23:24):
almost like you get this yield and then you participate
in the growth and the scarcity value of evaluation. So
and if you look at it, the only thing that's
done better than private equity.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Honestly, if you go back is sports valuation.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
So I'll just throw out the NFL numbers, the bills,
you know, a billion, three, a billion four, the Panthers
two two two three, Broncos in twenty twenty two four
to six US at six and now, so that's four
x and ten years. And now you start to hear
about some of the things, and I think they'll be
trades even higher than what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Those are coming at.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Ten billion, you think, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I think there could be stuff in the nine to
ten range. I mean, it's all coming together, I think
eventually for sure. And so I think that, but I'm
saying near term literally, and that's only been I mean
we bought the club coming up on two years ago, right,
So I think that.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So maybe you are a value investor here.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I'm a value investor in the in terms of the
growth equity R yeah, and so I think there's.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
A growth equity.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I think it's also unique and it's backstop by media
and as long as you think people are gonna want
the content and we have long term media deals. And
also it's very resilient economically, right, So certainly if there's
harder times not as many people will come to the
games or whatever, but the media payments are locked in.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
That's you know, the majority of the revenue.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And even in harder times, people want something to celebrate.
So I think these are fundamentally great businesses. They're also
inflation resistant, right, like if inflation goes up, So when
you talk about cap rate, it's a you know, three
to six real cap rate, that's a reasonable that'll be
go up and down and be inflation resistant. So I
think they are really good businesses, and I think they
(25:15):
are actually interesting investments, and I think it will keep
going on.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Should June, we can arguably say nobody reads a piano
better than you. You're a piano savant. My question is
very specific, do you value more ebadah or free cash flow?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
And why it's all free cash flow? I mean ebadah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Even in private equity, everyone talks about ibada. Generally they're
looking at free cash flow. It's just a proxy for
free cash flow. And since many businesses have different capitals spending,
you know, ebada is just a way to say, hey,
six times eba da. But ultimately everyone who I guess,
who knows what they're doing, is looking at free cash flow.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
In terms of the Commanders.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, we we felt that the Commanders used to be
the number one franchise in the NFL for many many years.
So everyone says, Dallas is that I'm franchise number one
in terms of revenue?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Revenue? Is that right?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
While yeah, and for many years and then you know,
obviously they didn't do as well. So when you looked
at we when we bought the Commanders, they were in
the twenties out of thirty two. And so if we
get them to league average, we'll double the EBA dah
and you're not comment on your numbers. And then if
(26:22):
we with the new media deal will triple it. And
if we build a new stadium, we'll cut you know,
it'll we have to invest, but we'll get some push
off and excute and execute.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So I think that, you know, we think we are.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
In the process of enhancing the Commanders. But again it's
all about doing it for the city and not worrying
about it. But when you do that, and a lot
of it is just driven by the media uplift, right,
that just.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Comes from the upward trend in media.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Certainly the NBA deal which was two point seven x
over eleven years. It makes it look like NFL content
is severely undervalue and there's uplift there, right, So you
can now without even factoring that in, we feel like
we're going to get increased cash.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So many Molti and you guys have an out that
which is going to be good time.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, I'll leave that one to the league, but yeah, no,
and then you have to make your case like you're
making your case. If you think about the Commander's ownership
group Mittrails, who build arguably one of the best companies
in America, Donner you know, obviously Magic Johnson, and then
a whole bunch of other people that are very shrewd investors,
(27:34):
including some people on Wall Street. They want to be
part of it, right, but at the same time they
want to understand, Okay, what's the return here, Why should
I you know, write a check? And again the you know,
obviously it's being part of an NFL franchise, there's a
limit to how many people you can accept, and so
we had to ask people for really significant investments. So
(27:56):
they certainly wanted to know how it was going to work, right,
and we were able to say we're going to win
for the city we're going to spend, We're going to invest.
But here's why we think that the value of the
equity will go up.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
And a lot of it has to do.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
With all the things we've talked about here, the upward
trend in sports values, the scarcy value, but also our
ability to move the Commanders back to being relevant for
the DMV again and therefore fill up the stadium which
was empty, get sponsors back, and make feel great about
being part of the Commanders again.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah. So I'm glad you went there because I wanted
to talk about some of the some of the ways
you've changed running the actual business. So this report card,
everybody looks at the report card now from the NFL
Players Association and you know that all too well, this
franchise was dead last Wow, now moved up to eleventh.
That's a huge, huge move, and that you know, just
(28:53):
for people out there, this is you know, based on
player feedback. You know, this is what the players say
about about their team. Were there one or two things
that you set out to do or that you, looking back,
did that made that number jump and that rank jump
as much as it did.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
So, first of all, when you run a sports team
and you're an owner. Your three most important jobs hiring
a GM, hiring a coach, hiring a president to run
the business operations, and making them incredibly talented and like
mind in terms of values.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
By the way, this owner is nodding, right, let's taking
note exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, you don't want to be I mean, ultimately right,
there's just a thousand things that decisions that are made,
and you should not want I do not have the inclination.
I don't want to be involved in all thousand. I
want to be involved in the most important decisions. And
then I want people who have the same vision that
I do, which is too it's really a servant leader mindset,
(29:56):
like do this on behalf of the city or on
behalf of the players. So, Peter as dan Quinn, you know,
obviously Mark Claus from Campos is an amazing gut for us.
But then as starts specifically answering your question, you know
the facilities that the players were showering and playing in
weight training in when we showed up, there wasn't even
(30:19):
a game clock. Our bubble was deflating, and so we
just literally said that you know, what you want to
do is become a destination for players. Look, there's a
relatively small amount of people who can play, or coach
or be in the front office of major sports, and
so your job is to become a destination where they
(30:40):
feel like they matter, you care about them. And the
way that you articulate that is to create amazing facilities
to make their lives easier. And so we've rebuilt everything
from showers to locker rooms, to weight facilities to food,
and we really showed them that we cared about them.
(31:02):
To how they travel. I mean, think about it. If
you have to travel all over the place and you're
not being staying in a nice hotel or you're not
traveling on a great plan, that's gonna make a huge
difference in your life.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
And so people think that the players, I mean ou
because you were a player.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Everything you're saying is spot on it. Yeah, these are
the things I'm really mad to us right.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Think about it.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
There were probably some owners where you know, you felt like, came,
my life is harder, and some owners where you felt like, Hey,
this guy really.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Or this person really cares about me.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
In addition to I mean, obviously, you know, each player
wants to get compensated fairly and that's all part of it.
But a lot of great players, I mean great players
taken play wherever they want, right, So your job is
to attract them and make them feel welcome. And that
starts with the front office and the coaches, but it
also goes to their facilities. And so what we've spent
one hundred and twenty five million dollars across the stadium
(31:53):
and the player of facilities. And again, I think that
you win in sports by I don't think this is
like it's a growth as I said, I analogize it
to growth equity, cutting back stuff, skimping. I don't think
that's right. In sports, you're entertaining and you're attracting talent,
so you've got to be like first classed every step
(32:15):
of the way. And that's why it improved.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
I think that the players.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I engage enough with the players and the coaches that
they know that I'm there for them. And when they notice, hey,
you know, the food's not great or something else. If
you saw, like, for example, there's only like one cold plunge, right,
so it's a are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Right?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
It turns out, by the way that you know a
cause that cold plunge the normal cold plunge costs about
six thousand hours.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
You have to get a special.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Coal punch and then one's a big yeah. Yeah, so
it's a it's more excelessive. But I said, go get it, get.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
It, like, are you kidding me? I love the cold bunch.
I did it every day, I do it. But I
did it before.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
You're okay, So, Josh, you said you don't want to
make a minute decision.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
That obviously makes all the sense in the world. You're
hiring the best people, you're paying them, well, they're aligned
with your vision. How often do you kind of sit
down on a zoom? Is it once a week, twice
a week to get a report on what's going on
with the numbers X Y Z.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, so it's it's as needed.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
And then you know the great thing about sports is
that you do a lot of games.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
So you got a lot of games, so we're I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
There a lot and you know, obviously when you're building
a stadium, when you're around the draft, when you're a
free agency, when there's things going on, you're there a
lot more. And what we do is we have a
standing call and stuff happens right like there can be
stuff that happens your arena that requires immediate attention.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
You can't ignore. And you know, stuff happens in.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
The world, right, George Floyd, like we you know, immediately
we're on the phone, like we need to put out
a statement.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
This is wrong.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
But that requires you as an owner, right, that's the
values of the org and you have to like see
what I mean. I went on YouTube right and said, okay,
let me what really happened here? Right, if I'm going
to stand or you know, when October seventh happened, you
know kind of you know, getting the leagues and the
teams to support, you know, and empathize with the people.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
That were killed.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
So I think that all these things happen, and you
just have to be on call twenty four to seven
and be, you know, in essence on call for the
public and do your job. And you know it's as
needed and so it you know, in the off season
when nothing's going on, it is once a week, but
then it's a lot more than that.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And so that talk about that public facing piece, because
you know, you're sitting across from a guy who was
like you know, on the cover of magazines. He was
he was he was in the public right public, sometimes
for better, sometimes for worse. Since the age of you know, fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen years old, you were able to go through much.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Of your career.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I know who you were, but it was my job.
You know, I was at Bloomberg, so you were a
star athlete and in my mind and in that regard,
but owning a team where everybody knows your name, where
you're sitting courtside or you're sitting in the box, what
is that transition? Like? How do you cope with that?
Especially I'll say it out loud. Owning a football team
in Washington and a basketball team in Philadelphia. These are
(35:25):
not cities that love each other.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I think that you have to embrace if you want
to do this as a managing owner, as the control owner,
you need to embrace the fact that you're now a
public figure, and that comes with all of the issues
that you might think that Alex has lived with. But
people come up to you, people interrupt you and want
(35:47):
to talk about the team, good and bad. Obviously pretty
happy people in Washington and you know we you know,
less happy in other locations this particular year, and you
have to be you know, even signing autographs, and then
you know there's you know, you all of a sudden,
you know, you in some cases need security when you
(36:08):
go into enemy territory maybe.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And and then you know, everything you do plays out
on the front page, you know, in the paper, right,
So you have to be righteous in your behavior. So
if you're not prepared to be righteous in your behavior
and do things that the people can relate to on
the front page of the paper, then you probably shouldn't
do it. And there's no way around it. And I
didn't really realize what I was signing up for, Honestly,
(36:31):
I had never been through it like Alex and you know, certainly,
you know, could probably write three books on the subject.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, and then it starts to you know, your family
starts to get known. I mean, all that stuff. But
I'd say that that just comes with it, and for
good it for bad. And we own clubs, own teams
in really tough cities like Philly. Fans are amazing, they care,
but they're you know, they they take no prisoners, right,
and they hold up accountable.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And certainly when the Commanders played the Eagles in the
NFC Championship, I tried to explain to everyone that if
you just grew up in South Philly, I understand why
you're all about Philly sports.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
But I grew up in Washington and Philly.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
My mom was from Philly, my grandmother's from Philly, but
I grew up in Washington. Then I went to pen
when I was seventeen, and I saw these two teams,
and I love these two teams, and so I tried
to explain myself, and I'd.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Say ninety seven percent of the fans got up.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
But there's there's gonna be some fans that are just
because of that, you know, And I understand that, right,
and that's just something that I have to live with.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
But today, like there are a lot.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Of people increasingly these are big businesses, and more and
more you're gonna see people owning whether it's the cron
Keys or Fenway Sports or you know, you're gonna see
people owning teams in different cities, certainly the Glazers. So
this is isn't a unique thing, but certainly in a
city like phil which really cares about sports and I respect,
(38:05):
it definitely is something you have to manage.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
You weren't surprised at the vitriol.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I mean, honestly, I don't believe there was that much.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
I think there are any situation the loud there'll be
a few loud voices and then buy and large. Like
I think that we have invested in the sixers we had.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
The sixers have won.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
They have not won the NBA Championship, which we needed
to liver for the city. We're, you know, trying to
do the right things by the city. And you know,
if the loud voice is on Twitter, you just can't.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You can't, you can't get try injuries.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
You won't say it. I'll say it because I'm your
partner in the NBA. I think you've done an extraordinary
job with the NBA. But Josh, I want to kind
of rewind a little bit back to you know, I
don't know you much like Jason knows you on the
private equity world. I know you most friendly what you
do with philanthropy as much as anybody. I'm always fascinated
with how you balance your schedule because I know what
you're doing the world of business. But disclaimer, are kids
(39:01):
go to school together, and Peters and Ella are very
good friends, and they're both juniors in high school. And
I see how committed you are to your family. You
have five kids, how do you balance everything? And how
important is your family to what you're doing the business world?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
So my found is incredibly important to me.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
So I have five priorities and I try to cut
everything else out. And so first of all, your health.
So we talked about cold plunging. If you're not getting
if you're not getting enough sleep, if you're not eating well,
you're not going to be good. We all uys have
to be on so much and so you need to
bring it every day, and so making sure that you're
well and taking care of yourself spiritually and physically is good.
(39:39):
Then for me, it's my family, and I try to
spend as much time with my family as they'll spend
with me, which.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Is sometimes the kids like that.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Where thanks though.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And then it's business right, and business for me is
I look at business as how do you impact the
world in a positive way. I think that business is
a is a real force for good. I think that
in twenty six North we own a lot of companies
and finance a lot of companies, and we manage money
for retirees and pensioners right, and so our job is
(40:13):
to bring it and win and create returns for millions
of beneficiaries by creating alpha. Right, That's how I look
at it, and I sell it to our team as
bigger than ourselves.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
But then also sports, and in.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Sports, look I own sports teams, I managed twenty six North.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
I grew up in the finance business.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Just because you're good at private equity, and I think
some people get confused, doesn't mean you should be picking
the line up the starting lineup for the Washington Commanders
or the Philadelphia seventy six ers. But so I spend
you know, more of my time where I'm the CEO
of twenty six North, but I spent a lot of
time on sports to spend and I work all the time,
so I'm probably you know, twenty hours on sports sixty
(40:59):
hours on business right now.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I need to get that down.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
And people don't understand how difficult and grueling businesses. Even
through my twenty five year career, sometimes it's more exhausting
to do the business and to travel and to like
keep up with hundreds of people that work for you.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
It's just a lot. It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
And at this point I want people on my teams
that are aligned with me culturally where they want to
bring it right, Like, so I don't. In everything that
I do, it's about creating this culture of like we're
in this to win for the city, the pensioners, and
we're up against in the case of alternatives, it could
(41:38):
be you know, any any of the big firms, and
or in the case of sports, it could be the
Celtics or the Eagles or whoever it is. And so like,
you got to bring it. You got to take care
of yourself. But if you need to be on that
ten o'clock p reference call, unless you want to do that,
like you're probably not.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
We're probably not going to be. And then you have
to be really good at your job. And so these
cultures actually can be quite similar.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
And then our last thing is for all these I
find now later in life that people that are nice,
like you know, we have codes of conduct and morality
and on that, but people that are genuinely good, people
that care about other people are much better to have
around the ecosystem. So you can be really good at
your job, but you may not be the nicest person, right,
(42:26):
So as much as you can getting people that are
about other people, that's a big part of it. As well,
and so more of my time on twenty six North,
but as needed on sports, and I'll be there when
I'm needed.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
But you know, one of the interesting things is, as
you think about this expanding sports portfolio that sort of
come to the four in Philly specifically, is an area
that you haven't been in it as much and I
think you want to be in, which is women's sports.
A WNBA expansion team, I believe is sort of part
of the business case for the new arena. Talk to about,
(43:00):
you know, as a growth investor, you know what's the
case there.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
So I think we're in an as extential moment in
women's sports. I think that women are half the people
on the planet and sports was really important to me personally,
and there's no reason why women shouldn't be doing that
as much as men. And now you've seen a breakout
in the NWSL, You've seen a breakout in global soccer.
(43:23):
You know Palace, we have a Palace women's team at
the highest level, and you know, obviously the NBA, the
WNBA is breaking out and I don't believe it's just
I mean, the NBA broke out obviously around you know,
Will Chimbin or Michael Jordan. But it was just it
was a tailwind, right. It wasn't just that it just
stair stepped it. And I think that's where we are
(43:44):
in women's sports. And I think if you're going to
be in a major sport that really matters to a city,
you should have an adjunct women's team in some of
these sports.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
And so we're engaged with the NBA.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
We hope that they will allow Philly to be, you know,
in the w NBA and having very productive dialogues. And
I think that we also are seeing it. We have
a platform called Unrivaled, which is something I started with
David Blitzer that Andy Campion now runs, and Unrivaled as
(44:19):
a U sports we run camps and leagues and clinics,
and we're seeing a lot across baseball, football, action sports,
and we're seeing a lot of girls wanting to play
flag football. And so I see that as another big
lift in on sports. And I think this is this
is going to be around for a long time.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
And more and more it's going to grow.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
All Right, now it's time for rapid fire. We're doing
ten questions are a tough question to playful, all right,
what's one word to describe your deal making style flexible?
Speaker 4 (45:02):
What's more important to you in a deal your gut
or data?
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Data?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 3 (45:09):
David Blitzer?
Speaker 4 (45:10):
What's the best piece of advice you've received on deal
making or business?
Speaker 3 (45:14):
You know you can't do a good deal with a
bad person.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
What's the worst advice you've been given?
Speaker 3 (45:21):
If you pay a low enough price, you can make
it work.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
What's Josh Harris's hype song before you go into a
big meeting or negotiation?
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Oh? Coldplay? Oh? I like that good.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
What's one word to describe this past season for the
Commanders joyous?
Speaker 4 (45:40):
There's a tough one, Josh. If you're going to be
watched one sport for the rest of your life, which
one is it?
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I can't pick one, kid, I can't pick one sport.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
All right, We'll give you a pass on that one
because you're involved in way too many, too many kids.
This one, this one is going to be similarly tough.
I feel another paths coming on. What team do you
want to see win a championship more than any.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I like all of our teams to win championships.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I mean, honestly, that's what we're supposed to be doing
all of them.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
And last question, if someone wanted to have a career
like Josh Harris, what advice would you give them?
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Just you know, bring it, Do something that you love
and you know it's not a straight line.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Keep going.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Life's gonna serve a lot of curve balls. You may
miss a few, but you know, have a vision in
your mind. Shoot high and if you miss a little bit,
you're still gonna be way better off than you were before.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
All Right, this was really fun. Thank you for spending
this great with us, great fun.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
Thanks.
Speaker 6 (46:49):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Anamazarakus Phillip and Stacy Wong.
Original music and engineering by Blake Maples. David E. Ravella
is our managing editor. Our executive producers are Jason Kelly,
(47:10):
Brendan Francis, Newnham, Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Andrew Barden, Kelly Leferrier,
and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is our head of Podcasts.
Rubob Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from
Jacqueline Kessler. Joshua Devaux is our director of photography. Camera
operation by Geronimo Galbussa, Angela Reyes Latta and gian carlos
(47:35):
Zevaios antel Steinback is our gaffer, and Lavelle Higgins is
our grip. Our sound operator is Ivan Alexandrov. Listen to
the Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts. You can also tune into the video Companion
on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.
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