April 24, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly talk about the potential #1 pick in the NFL draft and Alex's report from sitting court-side in LA at a star-studded Timberwolves/Lakers Game 1 of the NBA playoffs. Then, they speak with Christine Dorfler about how she’s rising to the economy’s challenges as the NFL’s chief financial officer. Dorfler tells the hosts how a recession could affect the NFL’s media deal, why she sees so much potential in introducing private equity into team investments, and what she learned about resilience from being a military intelligence officer in the Army.
You can also watch this interview on the Bloomberg Podcasts YouTube page.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome back to the Deal.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm your host, Jason Kelly, longside my partner Alex Rodriguez.
It's a by coastal edition. I'm in New York. You
are in Los Angeles. On business, the business of the playoffs.
All right, take me courtside, bro, Like, what is it
like the Tea Wolves playing the mighty Los Angeles Lakers.
We're talking on Tuesday afternoon, hours away from Game two.
(00:36):
You took Game one in spectacular fashion. I'm dying to
know what it's like.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
First of all, Crypto was lit for Game one. I
mean everyone and their mother was there, everybody, and it
was so much fun. But when you play the Lakers,
like everything has to go through lay. Look, they've earned
this place in Mount Rushmore. They have eighteen world titles.
You think about the history of magic, Johnson, Kareem Abdujabbar,
(01:00):
Doctor Boss Now, Genie Buss. I mean, they're as good
as it gets. So it was fun to be there.
It sets up a great Game two for us. But
I can't say enough about what an electric atmosphere it
was for Game one.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I mean, is it fair to say that playing a
playoff NBA game is similar to say, playing a playoff
baseball game in Yankee Stadium.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, I mean that's actually a great comp I would
say Old Yankee Stadium even more, Yeah, because it was
such a crazy atmosphere. But the difference is, Jason, on
that side, I'm used to wearing pinstripes, so it was
very comforting. This said as an opponent is much different.
But the fans are awesome. I mean, they really are
smart basketball fans. And look, they have an edge, right,
(01:45):
and they've earned that edge, and in order to beat them,
you have to really beat them, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So I do have one more question sort of on
that point for you, And I'd like to ask this
question to lots of different owners, especially owners who have
been successful in business or like you have in athletics.
What's it like going and sitting on the sideline instead
of being on the court or on the field, Like,
it's got to be even more heightened now because you
must be jumping out of your skin.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Definitely, it's definitely more heightened now. I would say this
two things, Jason. I think I don't think people the
generic fan or non fan realize how incredibly big athletic talented.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
These guys are supreme.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And it doesn't matter who the ten players are on
the court at any given time, they're all phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So that's one thought as a fan. It's helpless.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I mean, it's like watching, you know, five of my
kids out there, and you just want them to do
so well because.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I love love our players.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And look, I will say this, I've been a player
for two and a half decades and I'm always going
to think player first versus governor. And it's really neat
to see players play in this type of stage and
there's so much at risk, but it really puts their
talents on the biggest stage, which is awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I will say this as an NBA fan. The thing
that I love about the playoffs is it's all on
the line, and also to your point, like the intimacy
of an NBA game, especially when it's all on the
line like that. I mean, it's just like you literally
see the sweat. I mean, it's just it's just phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
All right.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So I'm doing some exciting stuff back here in New York.
I'm headed down to see some of our old friends.
In fact, some champions. Sue Bird among them at the
Business of Women's Sports Conference. This is something put on
by Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. This is an annual event.
I'm doing a panel all about the return on investment
in women's sports. So I'm excited excited to do that.
(03:39):
You know, Sue and Meghan Rapino are going to do
a live taping of their podcast A Touch More with
Chelsea Clinton. So looking forward to to hearing that Azy Fudd,
who is the most outstanding player in the NCAA Women's Tournament.
I was on stage earlier, so excited to catch up
with all those folks. The other big thing on the
sports agenda this week is the NFL Draft. I know
(04:02):
we're focused on the NBA playoffs, but what is happening
in football? This has become a massive, massive, annual event
and it's inescapable, right.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I hear people at Crypto talking about the draft and
who are the Rams going to draft? And you know,
who are the Raiders going to draft, and it's pretty phenomenal.
I mean, I remember back in the day it was
just almost a non event. But again give credit to
Roger Goodell and his executive team. The way they think
about entertainment. It is clear that for the NFL, football
(04:35):
is just the mote. There are an entertainment business just
like UFC, just like WWE and everything in between. Entertainment first,
football second, and no one does it better than the NFL.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, and we're going to dig into that in a
big way coming up in just a few minutes with
Christine Dorflir, the CFO of the NFL. You know, the
one thing that I would, you know, sort of offer
to you is while they're excited in LA about the
draft and across the country, they're especially excited back home
for you in Miami because cam Ward, the quarterback for
the University of Miami, is, at least as we sit
(05:12):
here now, the likely number one pick according to a
lot of the draftologists, including at the Athletics. So kim
Ward could go number one to the Tennessee Titans. A
great story University of Miami. I know obviously that school
is very close to your heart. So it'd be interesting
to see sort of what the atmospherics are around kim
Ward potentially going number one.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
A very exciting quarterback, very much so.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You know, when he came to Miami, some of the
chatter with the Hurricane fan base was is Cam too small?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Is he too short?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
And he quickly proved three four weeks in that he wasn't.
I mean, I think he's going to be a phenomenal
NFL quarterback from the little I saw with him as
a Hurricane fan.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's exciting.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And if he goes number one, he's definitely someone.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
To watch, Yeah, for sure, And so he would potentially
go to the Tennessee Titans have a quarterback issue that
they need to work out if they do have him
come on board. I mean probably the other two players
that will be most broadly watched, especially from a business
of sports perspective, or Travis Hunter and Shador Sanders teammates
obviously at University of Colorado. Shador of course the son
(06:16):
of coach Prime Travis Hunter, a generational talent, Heisman winner.
Wherever he ends up, he's going to do a lot
of business for that team. You know, I was reading
something earlier today which you'll appreciate, you know, having been
a number one draft pick yourself, but you know, rated
number one as a wide receiver and rated number one
(06:37):
as a cornerback. Travis Hunter, I mean, he is an
unbelievable athlete. So I can't wait to watch him play
wherever he ends up playing.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
But it's going to be a fun draft to watch.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And the last thing that I would say about the draft,
and we get into this with Christine Dorfler in the
conversation upcoming, is the whole notion of it's in green Bay.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
What a great NFL city.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I mean, one cool thing about the Green Bay Packers
is you well know, Alex, is that they're actually publicly owned.
Now you can't go and buy the stock on the
open market, but members of the public, they're fans, and
there are thousands of them actually hold certificates of ownership
in this team. It's a nonprofit, but they're actually owned
(07:19):
not by a handful of individuals, but by their fans.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
And that's just a formality, Jason, Let's be real. I mean,
if you like the Braves growing up because you grew
up in Atlanta, you basically owned that team. And when
you know Meta does well in their earnings or Google,
you don't go.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Around saying we did great.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
But when the Braves won a title, you say we
won a title. So I love that. And Green Bay
is one of the real iconic sports franchises, not only domestically,
but I believe around the world totally.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And now coming up on the deal. Christine Dorfler, the
CFO of the NFL. Welcome back to the Deal. I'm
your host, Jason Kelly, alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. So
(08:13):
excited to have Christine Dorfler. She is the CFO and
executive vice president of the National Football League.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Christine, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Oh, thank you for having me. I am such a fan,
so excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think the place we want to start is basically
with our obsession. I don't think there is an episode
that goes by that we don't talk about the NFL
in some form or fashion, because it looms so large
in the business of sports, in this intersection of business,
sports and culture that we talk about all the time. Christine,
so take us inside the business. You know you've been
(08:48):
in this seat for a couple of years now, how
do you describe the business of the NFL.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It's so fascinating. I've been here for two years. I'm
just coming up on my two year mark at the NFL.
But before that, I spent almost twenty years at NBC,
so I was in the media and entertainment space. And
as you think about the NFL and just the impact
it has on fans, on people, on local markets, and
on media and entertainment companies. I mean, this is a
(09:15):
media and entertainment property, the world's largest arguably, and just
the impact that that has our media partners, the way
the content just resonates with fans, the way that fans
are so incredibly passionate about it. I mean, that is
the business. And it's an honor for me to be
in this chair and just to be part of this
fantastic league and this fantastic you know, delivery of content
(09:40):
that excites and unites people across the country and hopefully
at some point across the globe.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So is it fair to say that because of your
work at NBC, like you sort of knew what you
were in for, but like, what was the thing that
surprised you when you actually you know, when Roger you know,
taps you for this job, Roger Goodell, the commissioner, you know,
what's the thing that strikes you most when you.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Sort of first get there, like the first few days, Well, it's.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
You know, it's so fascinating because I was on the
other side my last job at NBC was the CFO
of NBC Sports, So I was on the other side
of those negotiation for media rights with our various partners,
certainly the NFL being the biggest of that. But when
I got to the NFL, I mean, I think the
thing that surprised me is just, you know, just how
(10:26):
incredibly you know, you know, the NFL is on the
top of its game, but when you look at the
work that is happening in the thirty two local clubs
and everything they're doing day in and day out, as
well as at the league office to grow, to innovate,
to think about the future. You know, from the outside
looking in, you could say, well, you know, jeez, the
NFL is on the top of the game. You look
(10:47):
at the revenue relative to any other sports league and
it's certainly superior. You look at the viewership relative to
other sports leagues, and you could say, geez, it would
be so easy to sort of grow complacent and to
sort of say, hey, we have great business model. We
have a lot of stability with our media rights locked
up for a little while, with the collective bargaining agreement
locked up for a little while. But it couldn't be
(11:07):
further from what's happening. You know, people here are constantly
thinking about what's next and how do we continue to grow,
how do we continue to innovate, whether that's with flag football,
whether that's with becoming a global sport property, all of
the things I love that I love adrenaline, sort of
base places and businesses. That was surprising, but not surprising,
(11:30):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I would say one of the things that's been surprising
for me, Christine is like, you are the biggest and
the best known around the world.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
The shield is very, very powerful.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
But I'm wondering, First of all, I'm fascinated with your background,
which we'll get going to get into going back to
Villanova and the army and all of that. But twenty
years at NBC Sports as CFO, how did that help
you shape and position you for this job that you
have currently.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
You know, Alex, I started at NBC, I was a manager.
I was a pretty junior level finance person coming out
of the military, and I made my way through all
sorts of different jobs. I think the one propelled me
to the next propelled me to the next, and it
was all the sort of twists and turns and the
different experiences I had that then landed me at NBC Sports,
(12:15):
which you know, growing up I was love sports. I
played a bunch of sports. I ended up playing lacrosse
in college, and so to be in that chair and
to be in the sports media business was so exciting
for me. But I feel like it was all the
different steps along the way and the twists and turns
and the jobs that were great and candidly some jobs
that were not so great that helped to get me
(12:35):
to NBC Sports. And then obviously that was a big
part of why I think I'm here. I mean, the
media partners are such a substantial part of our revenue.
They're such a substantial part of our business. And focusing
on strengthening all of our media partners and bringing new
ones in like Netflix this year with the Christmas Day
Games was you know, it's part of what we think
(12:56):
about all the time. And so I would say it
was all those kind of building blocks along the way
that got me ready for that role and ultimately led
me here.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It's interesting, Christine, when you think about sort of the
portfolio of things that you have in front of you
across the business of the NFL. You know, media is
one thing we've talked a bit about that I can
tell you we could do it an entire episode just
on private equity in the NFL. I know that that's
something you were intimately involved in, and just to be
clear to refresh the audience, this is the ability for
(13:23):
a select group of private equity firms to own up
to ten percent of individual NFL franchises. Tell us about
that from the league's perspective, because I have to say
I've never really had that conversation with you or with
Roger Goodell. I'm interested to see how you think it's
working and sort of what the intention was and sort
of what you're taking away from.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
It so far.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah, I mean, it was one of the first things
I was a part of working on which was incredibly
exciting and interesting and just sort of fascinating to see
how the league and the owners thought about it. I mean,
I would say the league was very thoughtful and intentional
in coming up with the instruct and a construct that
works for the NFL. It's not the same construct as
(14:03):
you know that other sports leagues have adopted and had
adopted and implemented prior to the NFL. You know, we
put together a committee of five owners and the owners
worked a long time with staff from the league office
to try to figure out what is the right construct,
who are the right partners, how many partners should we have?
And I think it was really you know, the ten
(14:25):
percent works for the NFL. I think there's an element
of this that is, you know, crawl, walk, run, and
we're in the crawl stage and we're going to see
how it goes. These are passive limited partner investments. You're
not going to see any you know, fund managers making
coaching decisions right. Sure they would love to, but that's
not going to happen. I mean, it sort of maintains
(14:45):
the foundation of the ownership construct where the controlling owner
has to own thirty percent, but also offers owners of
liquidity opportunity so that they can reinvest, reinvest in their businesses,
reinvest in stadiums, reinvest in their club and their fan
experiences and everything.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Else like that.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
So it was important to get it right, I think,
and I think there'll be you know, points in time
we had to As you know, we had two fun
transactions at the end of the calendar year last year
with Miami and with Buffalo, with two of our fun
partners with arctosin Ais and you know, we'll see what
happens next. I think it'll continue to evolve, But out
of the gate, I think it was a really thoughtful,
(15:23):
intentional construct that works for the NFL and then protects
all the foundational parts of our policy that have made
the lead great.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
What makes it such a good business for private equity
to come into space right now?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Yeah, I mean, look, first of all, I think number one,
it's finding the right partners. I think a lot of
the time that the committee that we put together with
the five owners spent a lot of time thinking about
who are the right partners because this isn't something you know,
we have a six year old period that's part of
the policy, as you know, but this isn't something that
I think we're going to see a lot of exit,
(15:59):
right I think what we will see is, you know,
you look at and not just the NFL, but you
look at the growth of franchise values. I mean, we
saw it with the Bust and Celtic sale candidly, we
see it with our limited partner valuations like the Philadelphia
Eagles at the end of last year as well. This
is something where I think Aiy's scarcity, right, there are
(16:21):
only so many sports franchises. There are only thirty two
NFL teams, and people want to be the owners of
those teams. So the scarcity values certainly helps. And then
I think you look at the long term growth and
the impact that we have on society, on fandom, on engagement.
I mean, there really is nothing like the NFL that
(16:41):
unifies people in that way and people want to be
a part of it. And so I think that as
you think about funds who are investing, I think they
see that growth. You know, certainly we spend a lot
of time thinking about the media landscape and the disruption
and what are the things we need to do to
continue to innovate and how is that going to affect
our top line When you think about scarcity and you
(17:01):
think about the impact, you know, just sort of the
power of the content in reaching so many people across
the country and again hopefully across the globe. At some point,
I think that these funds come in and they see
that long term growth potential.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe you can't correct
me if I am wrong, But NFL one of the
reasons they're the envy of sports.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Around the world.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Is probably the only league at this scale that is
not only growing top line revenue but also net earnings.
And to be thirty two for thirty two or even
close to that is it is such an anomaly because
teams usually break even, they lose a little money, they
make a little money, and they're fine and they're ready
to go to the next hole. NFL is truly the
anomaly that grows both sides top end net earnings.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Yeah, no, absolutely last year alsoty two of our clubs
are profitable. And I don't think other sports leagues can
say that. But you know, as you think about top
line growth, and certainly you can make an argument that
you know, franchise valuations are based on that top line growth,
but there's profit growth as well. And we look at clubs,
financials and sort of core tiles, you know, the four
core tiles split into eight clubs each, and you know,
(18:07):
you see the gap between the top eight clubs and
you know the bottom eight clubs from a financial perspective closing.
And that's what you want to see. You want to
see sort of the tide lifting all boats, and that
is what we've seen and that's a really really strong,
you know, financial metric.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, that's it's a really interesting point too. And Alex,
I know something you and I have talked about on
this show is how that is certainly not the case
in all the leagues. And I'm thinking specifically at baseball,
which is something that you've talked a lot about in
terms of that that haves and the have not. The
gap is widening, not drinking, and that's a real issue
for the growth of a league.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
So when you think about those growth.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Attributes, Christine International, you mentioned this in passing, but let's
dig in on it a little bit. Is clearly an
area where the NFL is keenly interested in individual franchise
owners and club owners are very interested in that as well.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
It's a pretty complicated.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
System of you know, who has rights where and who's
playing where, and I think people pay a lot of
attention to who's doing what in which markets help us
understand the strategy there, Like, how do you think about
creating a system? Because we know that the NFL has
been successful by being methodical, it does feel like you've
been pretty aggressive internationally, is that fair? Like, how would
(19:25):
you characterize the international expansion?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah, I will say there's an enormous strategic focus on it.
What do we need to be doing, how do we
need to be thinking about growing fandom globally, what are
the key priority markets and really identifying where and how
and how much money it's going to take to invest
to grow that fandom. I mean, this coming season, we're
going to play seven international games. We'll play three in London.
(19:48):
We're entering three new markets right We'll be in Dublin
for the first time, we'll be in Madrid for the
first time, and we'll be in Berlin for the first time,
and then we'll return to Brazil we played last year
Eagles Packers kick off weekend in Brazil and South Paalo
and we'll return to South Paalo and then we have
our sites set on expansion beyond that. So we announced
a multi year deal to play in Australia starting in
(20:10):
the twenty twenty sixth season in Melbourne. So it is
something we spend a ton of time thinking about how
to get it right, how to be a global sports property,
whether that's player academies and player development, whether that's a
global markets program. In twenty nine of our thirty two
clubs participate in our Global markets program, all of the
things that you need to do to build that fantom,
(20:33):
to get the rest of the world to know and
to learn and to love the game as much as
we do here.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And so Christy, you know, one of the things, you know,
when we talk about the globe, we can't help but
think about the global economy and it is really something
right now, to say the least. And one of the
things that has always been attractive about sports franchise for
people is the sort of uncorrelated nature to get very
bloombergiy about it of these assets over time, and yet
(21:00):
you know, you're still talking about not just people tuning in,
but people showing up, people buying merchandise. How much as
the CFO do you have to keep an eye on
sort of what's happening forget geopolitically, but really just geoeconomically
as it relates to your business.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, it's interesting because that question has come up a
lot over the past couple of days, just as things evolve,
and obviously read the headlines and from our employees even
and we certainly have to keep an eye on it.
I mean, there are aspects, certainly of our business model
that are contracted and that's great, but we also want
to recognize that most of our you know, about half
(21:38):
of total league wide revenue comes from our media deals, right,
And we want our media partners feel the impact of
a recession if there were to be a recession, right,
because they're you know, advertising based. In some cases, during
a recession, those are the first budgets to get cut.
And so if our media partners feel it, we feel it.
We want them to be successful, we want them to
(22:00):
grow revenue, and so we think about it from a
media partner aspect, and we also think about it through
discretionary spend. Right, Fans going to games, that's a discretionary spend,
and in a world where an economy is challenged or
where there is a recession, that discretionary spend could could
be affected. And then I think, finally we just think
about it as it relates to the tariffs and what
(22:22):
impact that could have. As we think about international expansion
and what we're doing internationally, and also stadium built stadium
renovation and development in the stadium builds and how that
impacts the clubs who are spending money investing in their stadiums,
whether it's a renovation or a new build as well,
so we keep a very close eye on it and
try to account for different scenarios in the financial planning
(22:44):
we're doing as well.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
All Right, So now we're going to play a fun
little game, which is let's talk about the draft from
three different perspectives. First, my perspective, which is the least interesting,
which is a fan of football. I root for the
Atlanta Falcons. That's my hometown. So it's always interesting to
see who they're going to draft, to say the least.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
You know, Arthur Blank were with you, like, do it right,
let's go.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
There's one person on this call right now who was drafted,
and we're going to ask him about that perspective. And
then Christine, I want to ask you about the business
of the draft. But you know, Alex Partner, come on
in here. We are literally, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Amid the NFL draft.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You weren't drafted to play football, though you know, I
don't know, maybe you could have been. You were drafted
to play baseball. What's it like to be drafted?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Well, the NFL did have an impact because Dan Marino
was my favorite football player of course growing up here
in Miami, and he was like the greatest, coolest thing
in the world. As a matter of fact, I met
Dan as a fifteen year old. He's put his arm
around me and he said, you know you're gonna make
it big one day. And now we're great friends. And
it was just a really nice story that makes me
feel good. And we bonded over thirteen. But as far
(23:50):
as the draft, I'll never forget. It was June of
nineteen ninety three. My mom comes from very, you know,
humble background, so I had an opportunity to have my
dream come true.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I was drafted by the Mariners.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I was going to play with the Michael Jordan of baseball,
which was Ken Griffy Junior And it was a life
change and experience and it was when my journey began.
And as a day I'll never forget.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And so, Christine, you were a fantastic lacrosse player at Villanova,
but there was no professional lacrosse league at that point.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I'm sure you would have been you wouldn't made it.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Our friend Paul r who's been against on this program
you know now, is making that right. And there is
a women's professional league, but there wasn't at the time.
And yet now you oversee and help oversee with Roger
Goodell and others. You know, this unbelievable like is then,
I mean the ratings for which are through the roof.
It's this unbelievable sort of moment nowhere near the NFL
(24:44):
season where everybody's talked about the NFL. So what is
it like for the business of the NFL to have
the draft be this big of a deal.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Oh, it's huge, And you know it's interesting to me.
I had never been to an NFL draft before I
started in this role, and I went out to Detroit
last year. It was just absolutely blown away by the
you know, you think about the NFL being in the
off season, right the off season, and I mean hundreds
of thousands of fans hyped up, excited, wearing their jerseys,
(25:15):
just ready to go. There's no game, right and it
really does speak to long before my time at the NFL,
the NFL's ability to really event tiz event ties and
you know, really keep that engagement with fans throughout the
calendar year all twelve months, right, you think about the draft,
the combine, the schedule release in May, the start of
(25:36):
training camp. I mean, it's just year round, continuing to
grow and develop that excitement, and then from a business perspective,
you know, as I've looked back and sort of studied
the economics of it, the draft used to be up
until twenty fourteen. I believe it was a local event
done out of Radio City Music Hall, and now it
is a full city takeover with hundreds. I mean every
(25:58):
year it's breaking records in terms of attendance. You know,
I think Green Bay this year will be the ninth city,
ninth new market that the draft has gone into since
it left Radio City in twenty fifteen, which is pretty incredible.
And we have over half the teams have expressed interest
in hosting a draft. I mean, there's just tremendous interest,
(26:22):
you know, and there's all sorts of right correlations, I
think as you think about you know, I've I've heard
since I've started that the Draft in Nashville in twenty
nineteen was a real turning point. You saw, you know,
the all kinds of NFL fans up and down Broadway,
and that was something that helped lead to public funding
in the stadium development in Nashville. So there's all sorts
of correlations that are positive from a business perspective, and
(26:46):
you know, it's just you spoke about the ratings. I mean,
the viewership is off the charge. It beats the finals
of some other sports leagues. So it's it really is
incredible in terms of the power of engaging with an audience,
engaging with fans when you're not in season, and really
continuing that sort of thread throughout the off season.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
By the way, the owner of an NBA and WNBA
team is shaking his head at that very statistic, Christine.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
But go on, yeah, we all envy the NFL, that's
for sure, you know, Christine. All of the business metrics
we've been talking about over the last twenty or twenty
five minutes have been under the leadership of Commissioner Roger Goodell.
(27:35):
And he's been great with me personally. But I'm wondering,
from your point of view, you've been there about two years,
what do you see as his superpower and in such
a short time, what are some of the lessons you've
learned from him that make him tick Because the NFL
has been up into the right for a very long
time under his leadership.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Yeah, no, tremendous And look, I mean my understanding is
Roger started as an intern at the NFL, and so
he knows the place inside and out for sure. But
I think his superpower is he's restless, right, He never
grows complacent. It is always let's celebrate the wins, but
let's look at what's next, Let's look at how we
(28:15):
can do better, Let's look at how we can innovate.
Let's look at tremendous partners. I mean, one of the
things that was just so incredible to me when I
started as CFO was the companies that want to work
with the NFL, and it just is it's phenomenal, and
so what can we learn from them? He is always learning, thinking,
innovating and looking ahead to what's next. And you know, look,
(28:36):
if you're a fan, if you're a player, if you're
a coach, if you're a general manager, if you're an owner,
if you're a media partner, that's that's what.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
You want, all right, Christine.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
We're going to get to our rapid fire segment in
a second, but before we do that, you know, we've
sort of nodded to some of your background, and you know,
Villanova and you talked a lot about your experience at
NBC one. I think very notable thing is your time
you know, in the army, in army intelligence. How does
that sort of experience play into a job like that. Certainly,
(29:06):
I would imagine it gives you some perspective and gives
you a sense of like what ultimately is important in
defending our country, you know, versus a football game, which
we all love to watch. But what's the perspective you
bring or are there certain skills or attributes that you
find yourself sort of going back to from those early days.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Yeah, no question was. It was incredibly foundational for me.
I wouldn't trade my experience in the army for anything.
I feel very fortunate to have served and to have
served alongside some really phenomenal human beings where services is
front and center for them, and I learned a ton
from them. I mean, the things I learned that were
foundational for me that I still apply at this day.
(29:46):
It's the grit and resilience. You can learn that from sports,
you can learn that from a lot of different places,
but when you see it in action, particularly when you're
overseas and you see people away from soldiers, away from
their families, and the way they dig deep and find
that grit and resilience within them, it was just phenomenal.
And I learned that. I learned it by watching people
(30:07):
I served with, and I learned it myself. And then
I think the ability to learn and adapt, to really listen.
You know, when I was I was a twenty two
year old platoon leader in charge of people who had
far more years of experience than I did. And you're
not successful unless you listen and you learn, and you're
patient and you're thoughtful, and you learn an appreciation for
(30:27):
what other people do and figure out how you can
help support them as a leader. So all of those skills.
I mean, it was a short you know, in the
scheme of a career, it was a very short time.
But at the same time, I draw on those lessons
every day.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
All right, well, we're going to move to the rapid
fire portion of the conversation, the lightning round five questions,
Keep it tight. We're gonna bounce it back and forth
all starting then Alex, we'll pick up what's the best
piece of advice you've ever received on deal making or business?
Speaker 4 (31:08):
I think, always do something you're a little not ready
to do, those nervous butterflies, and prepare but also be
willing to take a risk.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 4 (31:19):
You know what I got to say. My father, he's
retired now, spent a long career in finance, but has
now become a historian. He wrote a book on sort
of the lessons you can learn from history and how
to apply him to the business world. He's patient, he's thoughtful,
and he's just a super smart person, and he would
be my dream deal maker. What's the name of the book,
Battlefield Lessons to Business Bullets. It's a great, great book.
(31:42):
It's short, but a lot of application there.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
And what's your dad's name.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
His name's Jerry mcnaff.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Okay, all right on the reading list. Now, what's the
most nervous you've ever.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Been jumping out of an airplane? When I was in
the military, you.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Know that's number one for us.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Haven't been more nervous than that. Less even day one
working for Roger Goodell, I was still more nervous jumping
out of a plane.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I've never fail so un accomplished.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
All right, here we go.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Number four. What's your hype song before you go into
a big meeting or negotiation.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Well, I'm a Philly girl, so it's got to be
going to fly now. The rocky song.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Ah yeah, love it, love it all right.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
What's your advice for someone listening who wants a career
like yours?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
I think, figure out a way to show that grid,
show that resilient, show that determination, and just figure out
a way to lose without being defeated. You're not going
to get your dream job day one. You're going to
take twists and turns, but figure out a way to
learn from the losses and not get defeated and keep
plugging away.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
All right, Christine, It's been really fun to get to
know you off camera, and you know, on this show,
we really appreciate your time. We know it's a super
busy time of year because the NFL never sleeps.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Man, we know that Alex.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Will never sleep.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
No, it's great. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much, now,
thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Fun the Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me
Jason Kelly. This episode was made by Anamazarakus, Stacy Wong,
and Lizzie Phillip. Amy Keen is our editor and Will
Connelly is our video editor. Our theme music is made
(33:17):
by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley
Hoenig and Brendan neonham Sage Bauman is the head of
Bloomberg Podcast. Additional support from Rachel Carnivale and Elena Los Angeles.
Thanks so much for listening to the deal. If you
have a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll
help other listeners find us. I'm Jason Kelly. See you
(33:38):
next week.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome back to the Deal.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm your host, Jason Kelly, longside my partner Alex Rodriguez.
It's a by coastal edition. I'm in New York. You
are in Los Angeles. On business, the business of the playoffs.
All right, take me courtside, bro, Like, what is it
like the Tea Wolves playing the mighty Los Angeles Lakers.
We're talking on Tuesday afternoon, hours away from Game two.
(00:36):
You took Game one in spectacular fashion. I'm dying to
know what it's like.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
First of all, Crypto was lit for Game one. I
mean everyone and their mother was there, everybody, and it
was so much fun. But when you play the Lakers,
like everything has to go through lay. Look, they've earned
this place in Mount Rushmore. They have eighteen world titles.
You think about the history of magic, Johnson, Kareem Abdujabbar,
(01:00):
Doctor Boss Now, Genie Buss. I mean, they're as good
as it gets. So it was fun to be there.
It sets up a great Game two for us. But
I can't say enough about what an electric atmosphere it
was for Game one.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I mean, is it fair to say that playing a
playoff NBA game is similar to say, playing a playoff
baseball game in Yankee Stadium.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, I mean that's actually a great comp I would
say Old Yankee Stadium even more, Yeah, because it was
such a crazy atmosphere. But the difference is, Jason, on
that side, I'm used to wearing pinstripes, so it was
very comforting. This said as an opponent is much different.
But the fans are awesome. I mean, they really are
smart basketball fans. And look, they have an edge, right,
(01:45):
and they've earned that edge, and in order to beat them,
you have to really beat them, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So I do have one more question sort of on
that point for you, And I'd like to ask this
question to lots of different owners, especially owners who have
been successful in business or like you have in athletics.
What's it like going and sitting on the sideline instead
of being on the court or on the field, Like,
it's got to be even more heightened now because you
must be jumping out of your skin.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Definitely, it's definitely more heightened now. I would say this
two things, Jason. I think I don't think people the
generic fan or non fan realize how incredibly big athletic talented.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
These guys are supreme.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And it doesn't matter who the ten players are on
the court at any given time, they're all phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So that's one thought as a fan. It's helpless.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I mean, it's like watching, you know, five of my
kids out there, and you just want them to do
so well because.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I love love our players.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And look, I will say this, I've been a player
for two and a half decades and I'm always going
to think player first versus governor. And it's really neat
to see players play in this type of stage and
there's so much at risk, but it really puts their
talents on the biggest stage, which is awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I will say this as an NBA fan. The thing
that I love about the playoffs is it's all on
the line, and also to your point, like the intimacy
of an NBA game, especially when it's all on the
line like that. I mean, it's just like you literally
see the sweat. I mean, it's just it's just phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
All right.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So I'm doing some exciting stuff back here in New York.
I'm headed down to see some of our old friends.
In fact, some champions. Sue Bird among them at the
Business of Women's Sports Conference. This is something put on
by Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. This is an annual event.
I'm doing a panel all about the return on investment
in women's sports. So I'm excited excited to do that.
(03:39):
You know, Sue and Meghan Rapino are going to do
a live taping of their podcast A Touch More with
Chelsea Clinton. So looking forward to to hearing that Azy Fudd,
who is the most outstanding player in the NCAA Women's Tournament.
I was on stage earlier, so excited to catch up
with all those folks. The other big thing on the
sports agenda this week is the NFL Draft. I know
(04:02):
we're focused on the NBA playoffs, but what is happening
in football? This has become a massive, massive, annual event
and it's inescapable, right.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I hear people at Crypto talking about the draft and
who are the Rams going to draft? And you know,
who are the Raiders going to draft, and it's pretty phenomenal.
I mean, I remember back in the day it was
just almost a non event. But again give credit to
Roger Goodell and his executive team. The way they think
about entertainment. It is clear that for the NFL, football
(04:35):
is just the mote. There are an entertainment business just
like UFC, just like WWE and everything in between. Entertainment first,
football second, and no one does it better than the NFL.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, and we're going to dig into that in a
big way coming up in just a few minutes with
Christine Dorflir, the CFO of the NFL. You know, the
one thing that I would, you know, sort of offer
to you is while they're excited in LA about the
draft and across the country, they're especially excited back home
for you in Miami because cam Ward, the quarterback for
the University of Miami, is, at least as we sit
(05:12):
here now, the likely number one pick according to a
lot of the draftologists, including at the Athletics. So kim
Ward could go number one to the Tennessee Titans. A
great story University of Miami. I know obviously that school
is very close to your heart. So it'd be interesting
to see sort of what the atmospherics are around kim
Ward potentially going number one.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
A very exciting quarterback, very much so.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You know, when he came to Miami, some of the
chatter with the Hurricane fan base was is Cam too small?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Is he too short?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
And he quickly proved three four weeks in that he wasn't.
I mean, I think he's going to be a phenomenal
NFL quarterback from the little I saw with him as
a Hurricane fan.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's exciting.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And if he goes number one, he's definitely someone.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
To watch, Yeah, for sure, And so he would potentially
go to the Tennessee Titans have a quarterback issue that
they need to work out if they do have him
come on board. I mean probably the other two players
that will be most broadly watched, especially from a business
of sports perspective, or Travis Hunter and Shador Sanders teammates
obviously at University of Colorado. Shador of course the son
(06:16):
of coach Prime Travis Hunter, a generational talent, Heisman winner.
Wherever he ends up, he's going to do a lot
of business for that team. You know, I was reading
something earlier today which you'll appreciate, you know, having been
a number one draft pick yourself, but you know, rated
number one as a wide receiver and rated number one
(06:37):
as a cornerback. Travis Hunter, I mean, he is an
unbelievable athlete. So I can't wait to watch him play
wherever he ends up playing.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
But it's going to be a fun draft to watch.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And the last thing that I would say about the draft,
and we get into this with Christine Dorfler in the
conversation upcoming, is the whole notion of it's in green Bay.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
What a great NFL city.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I mean, one cool thing about the Green Bay Packers
is you well know, Alex, is that they're actually publicly owned.
Now you can't go and buy the stock on the
open market, but members of the public, they're fans, and
there are thousands of them actually hold certificates of ownership
in this team. It's a nonprofit, but they're actually owned
(07:19):
not by a handful of individuals, but by their fans.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
And that's just a formality, Jason, Let's be real. I mean,
if you like the Braves growing up because you grew
up in Atlanta, you basically owned that team. And when
you know Meta does well in their earnings or Google,
you don't go.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Around saying we did great.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
But when the Braves won a title, you say we
won a title. So I love that. And Green Bay
is one of the real iconic sports franchises, not only domestically,
but I believe around the world totally.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And now coming up on the deal. Christine Dorfler, the
CFO of the NFL. Welcome back to the Deal. I'm
your host, Jason Kelly, alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. So
(08:13):
excited to have Christine Dorfler. She is the CFO and
executive vice president of the National Football League.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Christine, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Oh, thank you for having me. I am such a fan,
so excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think the place we want to start is basically
with our obsession. I don't think there is an episode
that goes by that we don't talk about the NFL
in some form or fashion, because it looms so large
in the business of sports, in this intersection of business,
sports and culture that we talk about all the time. Christine,
so take us inside the business. You know you've been
(08:48):
in this seat for a couple of years now, how
do you describe the business of the NFL.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It's so fascinating. I've been here for two years. I'm
just coming up on my two year mark at the NFL.
But before that, I spent almost twenty years at NBC,
so I was in the media and entertainment space. And
as you think about the NFL and just the impact
it has on fans, on people, on local markets, and
on media and entertainment companies. I mean, this is a
(09:15):
media and entertainment property, the world's largest arguably, and just
the impact that that has our media partners, the way
the content just resonates with fans, the way that fans
are so incredibly passionate about it. I mean, that is
the business. And it's an honor for me to be
in this chair and just to be part of this
fantastic league and this fantastic you know, delivery of content
(09:40):
that excites and unites people across the country and hopefully
at some point across the globe.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So is it fair to say that because of your
work at NBC, like you sort of knew what you
were in for, but like, what was the thing that
surprised you when you actually you know, when Roger you know,
taps you for this job, Roger Goodell, the commissioner, you know,
what's the thing that strikes you most when you.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Sort of first get there, like the first few days, Well, it's.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
You know, it's so fascinating because I was on the
other side my last job at NBC was the CFO
of NBC Sports, So I was on the other side
of those negotiation for media rights with our various partners,
certainly the NFL being the biggest of that. But when
I got to the NFL, I mean, I think the
thing that surprised me is just, you know, just how
(10:26):
incredibly you know, you know, the NFL is on the
top of its game, but when you look at the
work that is happening in the thirty two local clubs
and everything they're doing day in and day out, as
well as at the league office to grow, to innovate,
to think about the future. You know, from the outside
looking in, you could say, well, you know, jeez, the
NFL is on the top of the game. You look
(10:47):
at the revenue relative to any other sports league and
it's certainly superior. You look at the viewership relative to
other sports leagues, and you could say, geez, it would
be so easy to sort of grow complacent and to
sort of say, hey, we have great business model. We
have a lot of stability with our media rights locked
up for a little while, with the collective bargaining agreement
locked up for a little while. But it couldn't be
(11:07):
further from what's happening. You know, people here are constantly
thinking about what's next and how do we continue to grow,
how do we continue to innovate, whether that's with flag football,
whether that's with becoming a global sport property, all of
the things I love that I love adrenaline, sort of
base places and businesses. That was surprising, but not surprising,
(11:30):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I would say one of the things that's been surprising
for me, Christine is like, you are the biggest and
the best known around the world.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
The shield is very, very powerful.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
But I'm wondering, First of all, I'm fascinated with your background,
which we'll get going to get into going back to
Villanova and the army and all of that. But twenty
years at NBC Sports as CFO, how did that help
you shape and position you for this job that you
have currently.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
You know, Alex, I started at NBC, I was a manager.
I was a pretty junior level finance person coming out
of the military, and I made my way through all
sorts of different jobs. I think the one propelled me
to the next propelled me to the next, and it
was all the sort of twists and turns and the
different experiences I had that then landed me at NBC Sports,
(12:15):
which you know, growing up I was love sports. I
played a bunch of sports. I ended up playing lacrosse
in college, and so to be in that chair and
to be in the sports media business was so exciting
for me. But I feel like it was all the
different steps along the way and the twists and turns
and the jobs that were great and candidly some jobs
that were not so great that helped to get me
(12:35):
to NBC Sports. And then obviously that was a big
part of why I think I'm here. I mean, the
media partners are such a substantial part of our revenue.
They're such a substantial part of our business. And focusing
on strengthening all of our media partners and bringing new
ones in like Netflix this year with the Christmas Day
Games was you know, it's part of what we think
(12:56):
about all the time. And so I would say it
was all those kind of building blocks along the way
that got me ready for that role and ultimately led
me here.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It's interesting, Christine, when you think about sort of the
portfolio of things that you have in front of you
across the business of the NFL. You know, media is
one thing we've talked a bit about that I can
tell you we could do it an entire episode just
on private equity in the NFL. I know that that's
something you were intimately involved in, and just to be
clear to refresh the audience, this is the ability for
(13:23):
a select group of private equity firms to own up
to ten percent of individual NFL franchises. Tell us about
that from the league's perspective, because I have to say
I've never really had that conversation with you or with
Roger Goodell. I'm interested to see how you think it's
working and sort of what the intention was and sort
of what you're taking away from.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
It so far.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah, I mean, it was one of the first things
I was a part of working on which was incredibly
exciting and interesting and just sort of fascinating to see
how the league and the owners thought about it. I mean,
I would say the league was very thoughtful and intentional
in coming up with the instruct and a construct that
works for the NFL. It's not the same construct as
(14:03):
you know that other sports leagues have adopted and had
adopted and implemented prior to the NFL. You know, we
put together a committee of five owners and the owners
worked a long time with staff from the league office
to try to figure out what is the right construct,
who are the right partners, how many partners should we have?
And I think it was really you know, the ten
(14:25):
percent works for the NFL. I think there's an element
of this that is, you know, crawl, walk, run, and
we're in the crawl stage and we're going to see
how it goes. These are passive limited partner investments. You're
not going to see any you know, fund managers making
coaching decisions right. Sure they would love to, but that's
not going to happen. I mean, it sort of maintains
(14:45):
the foundation of the ownership construct where the controlling owner
has to own thirty percent, but also offers owners of
liquidity opportunity so that they can reinvest, reinvest in their businesses,
reinvest in stadiums, reinvest in their club and their fan
experiences and everything.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Else like that.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
So it was important to get it right, I think,
and I think there'll be you know, points in time
we had to As you know, we had two fun
transactions at the end of the calendar year last year
with Miami and with Buffalo, with two of our fun
partners with arctosin Ais and you know, we'll see what
happens next. I think it'll continue to evolve, But out
of the gate, I think it was a really thoughtful,
(15:23):
intentional construct that works for the NFL and then protects
all the foundational parts of our policy that have made
the lead great.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
What makes it such a good business for private equity
to come into space right now?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Yeah, I mean, look, first of all, I think number one,
it's finding the right partners. I think a lot of
the time that the committee that we put together with
the five owners spent a lot of time thinking about
who are the right partners because this isn't something you know,
we have a six year old period that's part of
the policy, as you know, but this isn't something that
I think we're going to see a lot of exit,
(15:59):
right I think what we will see is, you know,
you look at and not just the NFL, but you
look at the growth of franchise values. I mean, we
saw it with the Bust and Celtic sale candidly, we
see it with our limited partner valuations like the Philadelphia
Eagles at the end of last year as well. This
is something where I think Aiy's scarcity, right, there are
(16:21):
only so many sports franchises. There are only thirty two
NFL teams, and people want to be the owners of
those teams. So the scarcity values certainly helps. And then
I think you look at the long term growth and
the impact that we have on society, on fandom, on engagement.
I mean, there really is nothing like the NFL that
(16:41):
unifies people in that way and people want to be
a part of it. And so I think that as
you think about funds who are investing, I think they
see that growth. You know, certainly we spend a lot
of time thinking about the media landscape and the disruption
and what are the things we need to do to
continue to innovate and how is that going to affect
our top line When you think about scarcity and you
(17:01):
think about the impact, you know, just sort of the
power of the content in reaching so many people across
the country and again hopefully across the globe. At some point,
I think that these funds come in and they see
that long term growth potential.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe you can't correct
me if I am wrong, But NFL one of the
reasons they're the envy of sports.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Around the world.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Is probably the only league at this scale that is
not only growing top line revenue but also net earnings.
And to be thirty two for thirty two or even
close to that is it is such an anomaly because
teams usually break even, they lose a little money, they
make a little money, and they're fine and they're ready
to go to the next hole. NFL is truly the
anomaly that grows both sides top end net earnings.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Yeah, no, absolutely last year alsoty two of our clubs
are profitable. And I don't think other sports leagues can
say that. But you know, as you think about top
line growth, and certainly you can make an argument that
you know, franchise valuations are based on that top line growth,
but there's profit growth as well. And we look at clubs,
financials and sort of core tiles, you know, the four
core tiles split into eight clubs each, and you know,
(18:07):
you see the gap between the top eight clubs and
you know the bottom eight clubs from a financial perspective closing.
And that's what you want to see. You want to
see sort of the tide lifting all boats, and that
is what we've seen and that's a really really strong,
you know, financial metric.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, that's it's a really interesting point too. And Alex,
I know something you and I have talked about on
this show is how that is certainly not the case
in all the leagues. And I'm thinking specifically at baseball,
which is something that you've talked a lot about in
terms of that that haves and the have not. The
gap is widening, not drinking, and that's a real issue
for the growth of a league.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
So when you think about those growth.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Attributes, Christine International, you mentioned this in passing, but let's
dig in on it a little bit. Is clearly an
area where the NFL is keenly interested in individual franchise
owners and club owners are very interested in that as well.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
It's a pretty complicated.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
System of you know, who has rights where and who's
playing where, and I think people pay a lot of
attention to who's doing what in which markets help us
understand the strategy there, Like, how do you think about
creating a system? Because we know that the NFL has
been successful by being methodical, it does feel like you've
been pretty aggressive internationally, is that fair? Like, how would
(19:25):
you characterize the international expansion?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah, I will say there's an enormous strategic focus on it.
What do we need to be doing, how do we
need to be thinking about growing fandom globally, what are
the key priority markets and really identifying where and how
and how much money it's going to take to invest
to grow that fandom. I mean, this coming season, we're
going to play seven international games. We'll play three in London.
(19:48):
We're entering three new markets right We'll be in Dublin
for the first time, we'll be in Madrid for the
first time, and we'll be in Berlin for the first time,
and then we'll return to Brazil we played last year
Eagles Packers kick off weekend in Brazil and South Paalo
and we'll return to South Paalo and then we have
our sites set on expansion beyond that. So we announced
a multi year deal to play in Australia starting in
(20:10):
the twenty twenty sixth season in Melbourne. So it is
something we spend a ton of time thinking about how
to get it right, how to be a global sports property,
whether that's player academies and player development, whether that's a
global markets program. In twenty nine of our thirty two
clubs participate in our Global markets program, all of the
things that you need to do to build that fantom,
(20:33):
to get the rest of the world to know and
to learn and to love the game as much as
we do here.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And so Christy, you know, one of the things, you know,
when we talk about the globe, we can't help but
think about the global economy and it is really something
right now, to say the least. And one of the
things that has always been attractive about sports franchise for
people is the sort of uncorrelated nature to get very
bloombergiy about it of these assets over time, and yet
(21:00):
you know, you're still talking about not just people tuning in,
but people showing up, people buying merchandise. How much as
the CFO do you have to keep an eye on
sort of what's happening forget geopolitically, but really just geoeconomically
as it relates to your business.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, it's interesting because that question has come up a
lot over the past couple of days, just as things evolve,
and obviously read the headlines and from our employees even
and we certainly have to keep an eye on it.
I mean, there are aspects, certainly of our business model
that are contracted and that's great, but we also want
to recognize that most of our you know, about half
(21:38):
of total league wide revenue comes from our media deals, right,
And we want our media partners feel the impact of
a recession if there were to be a recession, right,
because they're you know, advertising based. In some cases, during
a recession, those are the first budgets to get cut.
And so if our media partners feel it, we feel it.
We want them to be successful, we want them to
(22:00):
grow revenue, and so we think about it from a
media partner aspect, and we also think about it through
discretionary spend. Right, Fans going to games, that's a discretionary spend,
and in a world where an economy is challenged or
where there is a recession, that discretionary spend could could
be affected. And then I think, finally we just think
about it as it relates to the tariffs and what
(22:22):
impact that could have. As we think about international expansion
and what we're doing internationally, and also stadium built stadium
renovation and development in the stadium builds and how that
impacts the clubs who are spending money investing in their stadiums,
whether it's a renovation or a new build as well,
so we keep a very close eye on it and
try to account for different scenarios in the financial planning
(22:44):
we're doing as well.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
All Right, So now we're going to play a fun
little game, which is let's talk about the draft from
three different perspectives. First, my perspective, which is the least interesting,
which is a fan of football. I root for the
Atlanta Falcons. That's my hometown. So it's always interesting to
see who they're going to draft, to say the least.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
You know, Arthur Blank were with you, like, do it right,
let's go.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
There's one person on this call right now who was drafted,
and we're going to ask him about that perspective. And
then Christine, I want to ask you about the business
of the draft. But you know, Alex Partner, come on
in here. We are literally, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Amid the NFL draft.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You weren't drafted to play football, though you know, I
don't know, maybe you could have been. You were drafted
to play baseball. What's it like to be drafted?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Well, the NFL did have an impact because Dan Marino
was my favorite football player of course growing up here
in Miami, and he was like the greatest, coolest thing
in the world. As a matter of fact, I met
Dan as a fifteen year old. He's put his arm
around me and he said, you know you're gonna make
it big one day. And now we're great friends. And
it was just a really nice story that makes me
feel good. And we bonded over thirteen. But as far
(23:50):
as the draft, I'll never forget. It was June of
nineteen ninety three. My mom comes from very, you know,
humble background, so I had an opportunity to have my
dream come true.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I was drafted by the Mariners.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I was going to play with the Michael Jordan of baseball,
which was Ken Griffy Junior And it was a life
change and experience and it was when my journey began.
And as a day I'll never forget.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And so, Christine, you were a fantastic lacrosse player at Villanova,
but there was no professional lacrosse league at that point.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I'm sure you would have been you wouldn't made it.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Our friend Paul r who's been against on this program
you know now, is making that right. And there is
a women's professional league, but there wasn't at the time.
And yet now you oversee and help oversee with Roger
Goodell and others. You know, this unbelievable like is then,
I mean the ratings for which are through the roof.
It's this unbelievable sort of moment nowhere near the NFL
(24:44):
season where everybody's talked about the NFL. So what is
it like for the business of the NFL to have
the draft be this big of a deal.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Oh, it's huge, And you know it's interesting to me.
I had never been to an NFL draft before I
started in this role, and I went out to Detroit
last year. It was just absolutely blown away by the
you know, you think about the NFL being in the
off season, right the off season, and I mean hundreds
of thousands of fans hyped up, excited, wearing their jerseys,
(25:15):
just ready to go. There's no game, right and it
really does speak to long before my time at the NFL,
the NFL's ability to really event tiz event ties and
you know, really keep that engagement with fans throughout the
calendar year all twelve months, right, you think about the draft,
the combine, the schedule release in May, the start of
(25:36):
training camp. I mean, it's just year round, continuing to
grow and develop that excitement, and then from a business perspective,
you know, as I've looked back and sort of studied
the economics of it, the draft used to be up
until twenty fourteen. I believe it was a local event
done out of Radio City Music Hall, and now it
is a full city takeover with hundreds. I mean every
(25:58):
year it's breaking records in terms of attendance. You know,
I think Green Bay this year will be the ninth city,
ninth new market that the draft has gone into since
it left Radio City in twenty fifteen, which is pretty incredible.
And we have over half the teams have expressed interest
in hosting a draft. I mean, there's just tremendous interest,
(26:22):
you know, and there's all sorts of right correlations, I
think as you think about you know, I've I've heard
since I've started that the Draft in Nashville in twenty
nineteen was a real turning point. You saw, you know,
the all kinds of NFL fans up and down Broadway,
and that was something that helped lead to public funding
in the stadium development in Nashville. So there's all sorts
of correlations that are positive from a business perspective, and
(26:46):
you know, it's just you spoke about the ratings. I mean,
the viewership is off the charge. It beats the finals
of some other sports leagues. So it's it really is
incredible in terms of the power of engaging with an audience,
engaging with fans when you're not in season, and really
continuing that sort of thread throughout the off season.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
By the way, the owner of an NBA and WNBA
team is shaking his head at that very statistic, Christine.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
But go on, yeah, we all envy the NFL, that's
for sure, you know, Christine. All of the business metrics
we've been talking about over the last twenty or twenty
five minutes have been under the leadership of Commissioner Roger Goodell.
(27:35):
And he's been great with me personally. But I'm wondering,
from your point of view, you've been there about two years,
what do you see as his superpower and in such
a short time, what are some of the lessons you've
learned from him that make him tick Because the NFL
has been up into the right for a very long
time under his leadership.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Yeah, no, tremendous And look, I mean my understanding is
Roger started as an intern at the NFL, and so
he knows the place inside and out for sure. But
I think his superpower is he's restless, right, He never
grows complacent. It is always let's celebrate the wins, but
let's look at what's next, Let's look at how we
(28:15):
can do better, Let's look at how we can innovate.
Let's look at tremendous partners. I mean, one of the
things that was just so incredible to me when I
started as CFO was the companies that want to work
with the NFL, and it just is it's phenomenal, and
so what can we learn from them? He is always learning, thinking,
innovating and looking ahead to what's next. And you know, look,
(28:36):
if you're a fan, if you're a player, if you're
a coach, if you're a general manager, if you're an owner,
if you're a media partner, that's that's what.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
You want, all right, Christine.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
We're going to get to our rapid fire segment in
a second, but before we do that, you know, we've
sort of nodded to some of your background, and you know,
Villanova and you talked a lot about your experience at
NBC one. I think very notable thing is your time
you know, in the army, in army intelligence. How does
that sort of experience play into a job like that. Certainly,
(29:06):
I would imagine it gives you some perspective and gives
you a sense of like what ultimately is important in
defending our country, you know, versus a football game, which
we all love to watch. But what's the perspective you
bring or are there certain skills or attributes that you
find yourself sort of going back to from those early days.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Yeah, no question was. It was incredibly foundational for me.
I wouldn't trade my experience in the army for anything.
I feel very fortunate to have served and to have
served alongside some really phenomenal human beings where services is
front and center for them, and I learned a ton
from them. I mean, the things I learned that were
foundational for me that I still apply at this day.
(29:46):
It's the grit and resilience. You can learn that from sports,
you can learn that from a lot of different places,
but when you see it in action, particularly when you're
overseas and you see people away from soldiers, away from
their families, and the way they dig deep and find
that grit and resilience within them, it was just phenomenal.
And I learned that. I learned it by watching people
(30:07):
I served with, and I learned it myself. And then
I think the ability to learn and adapt, to really listen.
You know, when I was I was a twenty two
year old platoon leader in charge of people who had
far more years of experience than I did. And you're
not successful unless you listen and you learn, and you're
patient and you're thoughtful, and you learn an appreciation for
(30:27):
what other people do and figure out how you can
help support them as a leader. So all of those skills.
I mean, it was a short you know, in the
scheme of a career, it was a very short time.
But at the same time, I draw on those lessons
every day.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
All right, well, we're going to move to the rapid
fire portion of the conversation, the lightning round five questions,
Keep it tight. We're gonna bounce it back and forth
all starting then Alex, we'll pick up what's the best
piece of advice you've ever received on deal making or business?
Speaker 4 (31:08):
I think, always do something you're a little not ready
to do, those nervous butterflies, and prepare but also be
willing to take a risk.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 4 (31:19):
You know what I got to say. My father, he's
retired now, spent a long career in finance, but has
now become a historian. He wrote a book on sort
of the lessons you can learn from history and how
to apply him to the business world. He's patient, he's thoughtful,
and he's just a super smart person, and he would
be my dream deal maker. What's the name of the book,
Battlefield Lessons to Business Bullets. It's a great, great book.
(31:42):
It's short, but a lot of application there.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
And what's your dad's name.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
His name's Jerry mcnaff.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Okay, all right on the reading list. Now, what's the
most nervous you've ever.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Been jumping out of an airplane? When I was in
the military, you.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Know that's number one for us.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Haven't been more nervous than that. Less even day one
working for Roger Goodell, I was still more nervous jumping
out of a plane.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I've never fail so un accomplished.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
All right, here we go.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Number four. What's your hype song before you go into
a big meeting or negotiation.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Well, I'm a Philly girl, so it's got to be
going to fly now. The rocky song.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Ah yeah, love it, love it all right.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
What's your advice for someone listening who wants a career
like yours?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
I think, figure out a way to show that grid,
show that resilient, show that determination, and just figure out
a way to lose without being defeated. You're not going
to get your dream job day one. You're going to
take twists and turns, but figure out a way to
learn from the losses and not get defeated and keep
plugging away.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
All right, Christine, It's been really fun to get to
know you off camera, and you know, on this show,
we really appreciate your time. We know it's a super
busy time of year because the NFL never sleeps.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Man, we know that Alex.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Will never sleep.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
No, it's great. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much, now,
thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Fun the Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me
Jason Kelly. This episode was made by Anamazarakus, Stacy Wong,
and Lizzie Phillip. Amy Keen is our editor and Will
Connelly is our video editor. Our theme music is made
(33:17):
by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley
Hoenig and Brendan neonham Sage Bauman is the head of
Bloomberg Podcast. Additional support from Rachel Carnivale and Elena Los Angeles.
Thanks so much for listening to the deal. If you
have a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll
help other listeners find us. I'm Jason Kelly. See you
(33:38):
next week.
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