December 11, 2025 • 32 mins
In this special episode, Jason Kelly speaks with Formula 1 driver Pierre Gasly about how drivers aren't just racers in today's Formula 1 – they're global brand ambassadors, technical consultants, and brands unto themselves. Gasly discussed how he is building his empire through partnerships with fashion brands, an investment group, and an ownership stake in FC Versailles, on top of competing in 24 races every year around the world.
This interview was part of the first episode of Bloomberg Originals' documentary mini-series, Power Players.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey there, welcome back to the Deal.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm your host Jason Kelly, flying solo again this week
to share a special interview with Formula one driver Pierre Ghastly.
I got to sit down with Pierre in Paris over
the summer for a DOCU series I hosted through Bloomberg
Originals called Power Players. This season, we dove into the
business of F one and motorsport racing overall, and I
was excited to speak with the driver who has really
(00:34):
made a name for himself both on and off the track.
Pierre has been competing as lead driver for the Alpine
F one team since twenty twenty three, but he made
his debut on the grid back in twenty seventeen. As
we talked about in the very first episode of my
Power Players docuseriies in today's Formula one drivers aren't just racers.
They're global brand ambassadors, technical consultants, and brands unto themselves.
(00:57):
Pier encapsulates that through the deals he's been part of recently.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
His contract with Alpine.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Anchor is a brand empire that spans luxury time pieces,
signature sunglasses, and corporate partnerships names like Reboch and Aix
investment group. His influence also extends into French football. He
has an ownership stake in FC Versailles and the week
I spoke with him, he was in Paris for a
Fragrance shoot for French fashion brand yvonn She. That's all
(01:23):
on top of the twenty four races he competes in
around the world every year and the countless hours he
spends at Alpine HQ working with the team to make their.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Race car as fast as possible.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Pierre Gastley certainly one to watch in the world of
athletes turn business people, so I hope you enjoy my
conversation with him. It's such interesting timing to think about
(01:55):
you as a business person, but also you within the
business of Formula one.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
You hit it at this moment.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Where a sport that has been popular, certainly popular in
Europe and other parts of the world, really explodes globally.
What has that been like to you know, be a
part of that journey and also to sort of participate
in your own, you know, sort of journey of notoriety
(02:23):
and becoming probably more famous than you thought you would
ever be.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I think F one over the last couple of years
as at an incredible rite social media streaming platform, you
know Netflix, the SERI another F one movie is coming out.
It just shows how incredible the boom of F one
is going at the minutant. Some yeah, funny stories when
(02:50):
I started in Formula when I remember my first year
in Olstein, going out one night the restaurant and start
talking with someone and the guy comes and goes us, so,
what are you doing? And like, I am a driver,
And first reaction was, yeah, what type of driver? F
one driver? What is that like Nascar? And I remember
(03:11):
I felt so many times to explain in the past
what F one was, just like yeah, that work kind
of Nascar, like slightly different. And it just shows like
in a couple of years, because I mean that was
less than years in twenty seventeen, yeah, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,
and in the space of like six seven years, the
(03:33):
interest for Formula One, especially in the States, as multiplied
by I don't know, six seven eights, you know, like
the older Ostine Miami Vegas, everything sold out and the
interest of American people in the sport is just huge now.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So I think because fast forward started to interrupt you.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
But fast forward from not being recognized, not even not
even understand what you do in a bar in Austin,
the restaurant in Austin, to then this year twenty twenty
five big in Times Square, yeah, celebrated you know as
sort of one of the biggest cultural moments probably in
(04:14):
all of sport and culture.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I think that's one of the biggest evolution in a
sport we've seen, like especially in the in the last decade,
you know, for F one, just to show obviously it
came with some you know, having definitely a different pathway
and access to our sport, we had to open a
lot our doors and show a lot more from what
we do within our F one circle, but also personally
(04:40):
us as drivers kind of open the doors on who
we are because we get recognized with our elemets on
her head because people see a driver, Okay, that guy
is a yellow element, that guy's blue element and oh yeah,
I know this Charles Leclaar guy come from Monaco. But
you know, in the past they recognize us with the
color of our shutoilement to our race number. But people
(05:01):
don't really see who we are as individuals and we
all humans, we all have different personalities, We have different
interests that we don't get to expose many times because
you know, I finish a race an hour and a
half full of adrenaline. What do you think about the
last crash? You've just died like five minutes ago. You're
running high on emotions, high on adrenaline. What you display
(05:21):
of yourself is very different to the guy you are,
you know, on the normal middle of the week, as
human beings, normal feelings, and with the values that you own.
So I think the sport did very well and showing
that side of the drivers, race drivers and people actually
bought a lot more into it, into understanding the dynamics
(05:43):
of drivers, teams, team managers, the business being Formula one
and not only focusing on the track action. But yeah,
definitely the fan base has grown massively.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, And so as someone who intimately understands the business,
you've been in it for a while, you clearly have
a business mind. What happens next for the business of
Formula One? What does it need to do to continue
this sort of momentum.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
At the moment, I'm focusing on my race, right, There'll
be a time where I'm sure I'll have other interest
in the sport in a bigger picture. But I think
that's a good question. I mean, there there is a
lot to do, and we see F one as a
sport is doing a huge amount. You know, we just
increasing the number of races, the interest from the biggest
(06:32):
brands in the world, you know, collaborating with Formula one
as a sport, but collaborating with the teams, with the drivers.
The interest on a business wise, I think has massively
increased in terms of opportunities we get just at our
level in terms of drivers and you know, collaborations we
can do in terms of brands. So I think everyone
(06:54):
is doing very well. The value of the sport as
not going to give any numbers out because I'm not
too sure about them, but clearly is doing very very well.
And that thanks to you know, people watching, people supporting
people's interest in our sport.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Right adding another team obviously, you know, coming on the grid,
you know you mentioned something really important, which is, you know,
brands becoming more and more interested in aligning themselves with teams.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
With the sport. Also, you know, with the drivers.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
This week you're gonna you know, do a big project
with Jivanji. That's a huge deal for you. How did
those sorts of things come to you? And do you
feel like both the power of the sport and your
own brand are part of the attraction there.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I think being an athlete in twenty twenty five is
is a huge chance, even more than what it used
to be. I think there is a real interest from
brands to use top athletes, not only in Formula one,
I think at all levels and all types of sports,
but to use these figures that people can relate to,
(08:04):
that people get inspired from. So I think the more
exposure we get as a support, obviously in Formula one,
the more interest these brands will want to collaborate with us.
And that's what we see. So obviously I don't deal
with that myself directly. I got a team around me,
which I had to to build over time, because that
(08:25):
didn't it's not from the first day I got to
f one that I had, you know, all these deals
coming straight away on the table, but you know, working
over the years and the interest growing for sure, now
you know I was went from a moment where I
was looking for deals and opportunities to a moment where
you've got to be selective in what you do. And
(08:47):
be careful in the way that you know, you use
your image and the brands that you work with. So
there's been a huge evolution and that's why everybody within
Formula one is benefiting from an orgainzation point of view,
from a team point of view, from a driver point
of view, and even from a Finn point of view,
because I think what's out there right as a sport
(09:09):
as a better quality and a better access and they
able to get more into the sport and into let's
say our life as an athlete than they were before.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And so what's the process that you went through to
build that team around you? Because you're a young guy,
I mean, you know you have a huge measure of
you know, financial success, but also notoriety and visibility. How
do you go about choosing the people that are going
to be around you?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I will say to start, I was one of the
few guys to get into Formula one without a management
company I think, which you know with insight was ad
is pros and cons as well in terms of how
is it made to get into the sport. But always
been someone that needs a huge amount of trust to
(10:01):
be able to work with people, especially when it comes
to my career, knowing all the sacrifices that went into it.
I never felt initially comfortable to, you know, give that
side of things, which is crucially important to someone I
not fully trust. So it took me some years, a
lot of meetings, met a lot of people within Formula one,
(10:22):
until you know, I found the right guy and my
manager at the moment we started after my first year
in Formula one, and that I've been working with ever since.
But it's over the years I had the chance to
have my family supporting me a lot, my four brothers,
older brothers, and a very good system that I could
rely on and that I could get advice from to
(10:45):
make sure that you know, I make the right decision.
I'm ob basically someone very driven. I know what I want,
I know exactly where I go. But I think it's
very important to me also to have feedback in confirmation
from people I can trust that they feel the same
thing as I do, and that you know, my project
(11:08):
being a Formula one and willing to be a Formula
one world champion, that everything is aligning in the way
that it should. And I think I add the chance
to the family I have. I'm very lucky. Not everybody
gets that chance, and that's why I want to contribute,
you know, for young drivers, in bringing that sort of
support and environment and structure to advice in the best
(11:29):
way possible, because it's very easy to make, you know,
a wrong decision that could impact a carrier very negatively
and unfortunately have quite big consequences. So it's extremely important
to be surrounded by the right people.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It's interesting too to think about the roster of drivers
at any given time in Formula one, because people change teams.
You know, you've driven for several teams, there's always some
sort of movement. Are there people who've who are either
currently on the grid or you know, maybe previously who
you sort of model yourself after, especially when it comes
(12:18):
to not just as a driver, but it's.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Sort of a more holistic sort of business person.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I think it's funny you ask about Formula one just
to me. I always learn a lot from meeting people
in different environments, so successful people in their industries, whether
you're talking business industries, whether you're talking other sports football, NFL, NBA,
(12:44):
let's say it's still in the sport industry. But I
really love those conversations I have with them where we
can open up as athletes and understanding, well, we know
this is quite difficult to manage in a career, whether
it's exposure, whether it's fame, whether it's finance, whether it's management,
whether it's family. You know, just working your own setup
(13:07):
and you know, keeping everything as safe and control as possible.
So we talk a lot, and I learned so much
from this conversation. I love it because that's where I
really feel I'm getting a lot of useful insights I
can use in my career in my personal life. So
not necessarily in formula one to answer your question, we
(13:27):
obviously very close to chelse lea clerk for example. I
grew up with him, and we share so much that
is very useful for our career, or at least to
me for my career and personal life because we're living,
you know, the same type of life. But I love
to have these conversations with people away from the sport,
(13:48):
where I'll find them as constructive and as useful as
the one I have with the people within the sport.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, you mentioned football, and you know obviously you haven't
invested in American football yet, but you haven't in a
football club, right, here in France, in versa i FC
tell me how that deal came about and why it's
interesting to you, especially from an ownership perspective, because endorsing
is one thing, but owning is it is an entirely
(14:13):
other thing.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, it's a new project. I've been involved in the
FCBL side for a year and now I think football
has always been you know, there is Formula one in
my life, my love for Formula one, but football is
right there, right and so it's been a huge passion
since I was a kid. I played football from the
(14:35):
age of six until eleven. I had to make a
choice and luckily I made the right choice back then
between cutting or football. But who knows football, I can't
guarantee you I made the right call. Yeah, but I've
always had the will of being involved in football in
(14:55):
a whale or another growing up. Even though I was
following that motorsport career path, was already thinking maybe after
my motor sport career, I can play football like in
a matirish level. And I've been a big fan following
a lot any football competition in France, European level, World Cup,
et cetera. Watch a lot of games and I've always
(15:18):
wanting to have a somehow I can input inside the
sport and all the time over the years again network
through Formula one. Feel very lucky being an e F
one driver because it opens so many doors. And you know,
the two other owners of FC vs I contacted me
a year and a half ago, knowing that I was big,
(15:39):
big fan of football and having a lot of interest
into the sport, and yeah, the first conversation started, and
becoming a potential owner and having my input as a
professional athletes from the experience of my career and what
it takes working in this type of environments, you know,
within a team of fifteen hundred people working in between
(16:01):
Enstone and friends in Formula one and trying to use
that experience at a more let's say third division level
football and our values matched straight away. The vision as well,
matched straight away. And I had a couple of opportunities
to get into football in the last three years, but
none of them really connected with me. Oh, I didn't
(16:23):
find myself in those projects, and that one became a
life a year ago, and it's amazing. It's amazing insight
from a different perspective because I'm an athlete. I see
things as an athlete point of view in Formula one.
Now in football, from a management point of view, things
(16:44):
are quite different. We all have our different role within
the organization and I'm probably more focused on the sporting
and trying to provide these guys the best environment and platform,
and let's say, an environment where everybody can excel in
what they're doing and not gonna lie. The Ryan Reynolds
(17:05):
story with Rex Tim was also quite inspiring, sure, and
what they did, and it's absolutely incredible to see what
they've achieved, and you know, hopefully one day we can
come close to what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up because as
you were talking, I was thinking about this idea.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You know, you're going into into football.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That's a relatively new thing that athletes, especially current athletes,
are taking ownership stakes. Was that sort of an obvious
thing you wanted to do, because that is a it's
sort of a new phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah. I must say it's becoming more and more common
to have athletes joining teams, I think for different reasons
from not everybody get access to this type of ownership,
but I think it depends on the individual and what
do they have to bring to the table, what's their intention,
what's the background, was their skill sets? And some time
(18:00):
it matches. You see, there is a question of exposure.
As an athlete, we have a huge exposure and there's
a real interest now from organization to kind of collaborates
with at least to use that exposure in growing an organization.
And yeah, I think there's a lot of parallels as
an athlete in managing your carrier that can be very
(18:23):
useful from an ownership point of view.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, And so with that in mind, is that a
bit of a predictor of you know, what your life
might look like when you do stop driving? You know,
because you know, I don't know the athlete's career ultimately ends.
I know you don't want to think about that right now,
But like, as you think well down the line, do
you think about sports ownership more? Do you think about
(18:47):
broader business like what are your longer term goals when
it comes to, you know, the business side of Pierre Gastling.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
I don't think I other stop driving my career.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I'm you're going to be the oldest point and they're
be driving an F one car around the circuit und
years old.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But when you're not doing that.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Well, my career might stop. I still be driving something.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You'll be driving something, probably very fast.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
No, I think it's yeah, to touch on what you
just said. I think it's being aware. That's you know,
every sportsman's career comes to a net end at some point,
and life still carries on for many, many years. And
it's not all about dose heres at the top level
(19:36):
of the sport that you're in. It's about what you build.
And the question should not come the day you stop,
because it's already late. And I think I was again
lucky to be surrounded by the right people to make
me aware about that situation and being you've got to
be one hundred percent focus on what's going on right now,
(19:58):
but just prepare the future in a way of you
having a platform thanks to your sport and the position.
I mean now I'm given opportunities that may be different
in the future. Wants everything ends and the interest will
obesily decrease as well. So it's more like, yeah, preparing
that pass away from the life I'll start once my
(20:19):
career and not anytime closed. But yeah, being aware of
that and the way might look like, you know, time
will tell I obviously have a lot of interest into sport,
into the business side of things. You know, I have
a lot of ideas in you know, the sort of
industries that I like to be part of, but it's
(20:40):
obviously at the moment allowing me time to you know,
grow my knowledge about it and make sure I make
the right thing, because I'm the type of person when
I get involved into a project, I like to I'm
doing it one hundred percent, So I commit myself hundred percent.
And with FCVs I I'm doing it for the long term.
I'm not looking at a few years of excitement and
(21:04):
thrill and then getting out of it, and I'm doing
it for the journey, and you know, the journey that
comes with it, and that's the way I am. So yeah,
there are definitely a lot of projects and industries I
like to explore. We live in a time where things
evolve extremely fast and you know, technologies, things ten years
ago were very different to what they are now. Seeing
(21:26):
myself in if one for another tenure, and I know
in tenure things will look the world will be evolving
and will be quite different. So yeah, it's in the
back of my mind. But I'm also giving allowing myself
some time to make sure make the right calls in
the future.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
It's interesting, you know, and I say, this is someone
who you know, talks to a lot of people like
you on a regular basis. You are at it earlier,
I think than a lot of people are. You're approaching
it with a level of seriousness that not all do.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Where do you think that comes from?
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I think from ultimately my family, you know, having this
sort of like work ethics, and I think it's also
something I've had within me since a very young age.
So I'm extremely competitive, I have a very clear mind
in what I want to achieve, very harsh on myself
and the mending. And that's the way I always motivate
(22:30):
myself by already from a very young age not accepting
anything less than perfection, which is impossible. So you know,
I kept hitting a hard wall, always trying to do
things better and always trying to achieve a better level
and push the boundaries of myself a bit further, and
(22:51):
to actually achieve that. I think over time it was
quite harsh. But I've really matured quite quickly and became
aware of different things quite early on in my career.
But I think growing up also in a family with
folder brothers, I've always said it was definitely a luxury
because you know, having older brothers, you can see what
(23:11):
they do well, what they do not ideally, and very
learn from it from a young age and not too sure.
There are things that you know, every individual we have
our personalities and that's the way I grew up and
probably what the sport told me and what I learned
through my own career with Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
It's interesting that you say that because twenty nine years old,
and yet you know, you have to walk into that
factory on a good day on a bad day, and
you are you're the leader of the team, and not
just the leader of a small team, leader of a
big team.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
You know, a thousand plus.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
People who you're working with, but ultimately need to inspire
and motivate in order to get the result that you need.
How did you prepare yourself for that or was it
just something that you had to sort of.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Learn on the job.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I had to learn on the spot, because I
mean it's obviously I've always been kind of a leader
in anything I do since a very young age. Like
I kind of like the position and the responsibilities of
you know, having people on board, and I think that
was a chance to play football from you know a
very young age. Is once you jump in a gokut,
(24:22):
for example, it's you're steering and yourself and it's up
to you to go as fast as you can at
that given moment. When you play on a pitch, you
got ten of the teammates. You need everybody to do
their job correctly. And I felt as a kid already
I had to be behind them to pull them, create
the right space and the right mindset and push everybody.
(24:44):
I quite like that leader petition, and I think growing
up I've tried to develop those skills, try to put
myself in this type of situation because you're not always
given that chance. And even in Formula one, as wasn't
always in a position of leading a team. And it's
really position I embrace where I feel as a driver,
(25:05):
I can contribute in a better way, and I feel
that's when I'm able to excel in what I do,
when I get given that space and that structure and
environment to actually be myself and try to contribute in
my own way. Do feel pressure, massive pressure, But if
I got I admit I felt more pressure as a
(25:28):
kid going up the ladder of motor sports, not knowing
whether from one year to another my entire career was
going to stop. It's like I had to win those
races from a very young age because I didn't have
the funding to make it to the next year, and
if I would not win, I wouldn't be able to
(25:48):
find sponsors to carry on. So the pressure I felt
as a kid was tremendous and really became so useful
to manage the pressure in Formula One, which is very
different but in a way more manageable from what I've
learned in the past. All over those early days.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
How is it different.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I'm much more in control. I'm much more aware of
who I am and what I'm good at and what
I'm bad at. Let's say you know bad, let's say
not the best at. And once you know your skill sets,
it's easy to use. First of all, it brings you
confidence in what you do, so you know the situation
(26:31):
that you'll be able to really excel and really bring
a lot of positive and I know the situations where
some of my teammate or people I work with will
be better at managing these type of situations. When you're
a kid. You don't really have those references. You don't
really you kind of like figuring yourself along all those years.
(26:52):
You try to do good things, but you're not too sure.
As a kid, I was like, I want to be
in Formula one. I want to be the best, But
do I have these skills to actually get there? Well,
I think so, But this kid is very fast. This
other kid is very fast, and he wants to be
informal I one as much as I want to do
as I want to be there, And I think you
have a lot less confidence in those early years. And
(27:15):
then yeah, over the over time, I've grown up and
kind of figured myself out, and I keep figuring myself
out every single day because when I broke up to
the factory and got to talk to a talent people.
I try to do what's best and I try to
be as clear and multiversional as possible with what I know.
But there is a better way of doing things. I
don't do it the best way. The intention is the best.
(27:38):
I know what I want to you know, the values
and what's being the stuff I want to say, But
no one's perfect. So you're also learning along the way,
but with slightly more confidence in what I'm capable of doing.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It is such a fascinating sport too, because you know
you have competitors all around, including in your own factory.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know you've got a teammate that you're.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Competing with, as does you know every other or every
other person. How do you balance sort of the needs
of the team versus the needs of the driver. That's
one of the quintessential questions around your sport.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I think it's an amazing question because you've got to
figure out when you come in Formula one, you are
let's say, the only driver on equal machinery is your teammates,
and you've got to work with him to make the
old team better, but obviously keeping in mind that you
(28:29):
want to be the best out of the two. And
then I think it's an amazing dynamic and I think
it's a great question on how we're able to balance that.
I think the key thing is understanding by working together,
you raise the overall performance of the team, which ultimately
will give you the best chances of beating all the
other guys, which is the primary goal as a team.
(28:52):
Doesn't matter who win within the team, we want the
team to be the best position possible and to achieve that,
you've got to work very closely and very well with
that teammates. Once you get the max out of the team,
then you get on track. Then obviously then comes the
competition within you know, the rules, because there's guidelines that
(29:14):
you've got to respect. Us teammates can go over over
that limit, but obviously that's when the competition comes in.
You know, having the age over your teammates, which is
ultimately the goal of any driver.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
And so you know, sort of along these lines mean
you are clearly very passionate but also very thoughtful about
this sport.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
What's your favorite thing about it?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
What is the thing that sort of pun intended, sort
of drives you At this point, you've had a lot
of success, more to come, but not enough. You're very competitive,
You're very driven. What is the part of it that
motivates you the most?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So what I love the most is the racing part,
you know, racing, getting behind the wheel, racing the other
eighteen twenty best driver in the world. There is nothing
that I find more exciting and gives me such a thrill,
you know, in my life. This is once I get
in that cockpit, put the visor down, the lights go on.
(30:13):
That's when I get the best feeling in my life,
and I only get it once I'm on that grid
or when i'm whenever I'm in that car. So this
is the best job in the in the world, in
my opinion, the best feeling. I'm very lucky to get
to be in the position that I am today. I'm
working really out for it, and as you say it,
(30:35):
I've had some success, but far from what I want
to achieve in the sport, and there's much more I
need to do, let's say, to fulfill myself entirely. But yeah,
it's it's a fascinating sport. What I love about the
driving parties, you know, taking those cars to the limit,
the speeds, the adrenaline you get pushing this you know,
(30:58):
monster on four wheels up to the limit is really exciting.
And the lovely part about it is once you get
induced calls, nothing crosses you onlind You went to a
state of mind where the focus is so intense it
requires one hundred percent of your capacities and it takes
(31:19):
you to a different dimension. And that's the only moment
of my life where I get to that state.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I can't think of a better place to end. Thank
you so much. This is really fun.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Thank you, thanks so much for listening to this interview
from my Bloomberg Originals documentary.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Mini series power Players. You watch the full series.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
On the Bloomberg Originals YouTube page. Power Players is a
production of Bloomberg Originals and this interview was produced by
Baldwin Tang and Sophia Chalmer. James knight Gale was the
sound recorded. The Deal is a production for Blueberg Podcast
in Bloomberg Originals. This episode was produced by Innamazakis, Stacy Wang,
and Lizzie Phillip. Our theme music was made by Blake Maples.
(32:03):
Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig, and Amy Keen.
Sage Bauman is our head of podcast. If you have
a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll help
other listeners find us. I'm Jason Kelly. Thanks so much
for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey there, welcome back to the Deal.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm your host Jason Kelly, flying solo again this week
to share a special interview with Formula one driver Pierre Ghastly.
I got to sit down with Pierre in Paris over
the summer for a DOCU series I hosted through Bloomberg
Originals called Power Players. This season, we dove into the
business of F one and motorsport racing overall, and I
was excited to speak with the driver who has really
(00:34):
made a name for himself both on and off the track.
Pierre has been competing as lead driver for the Alpine
F one team since twenty twenty three, but he made
his debut on the grid back in twenty seventeen. As
we talked about in the very first episode of my
Power Players docuseriies in today's Formula one drivers aren't just racers.
They're global brand ambassadors, technical consultants, and brands unto themselves.
(00:57):
Pier encapsulates that through the deals he's been part of recently.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
His contract with Alpine.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Anchor is a brand empire that spans luxury time pieces,
signature sunglasses, and corporate partnerships names like Reboch and Aix
investment group. His influence also extends into French football. He
has an ownership stake in FC Versailles and the week
I spoke with him, he was in Paris for a
Fragrance shoot for French fashion brand yvonn She. That's all
(01:23):
on top of the twenty four races he competes in
around the world every year and the countless hours he
spends at Alpine HQ working with the team to make their.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Race car as fast as possible.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Pierre Gastley certainly one to watch in the world of
athletes turn business people, so I hope you enjoy my
conversation with him. It's such interesting timing to think about
(01:55):
you as a business person, but also you within the
business of Formula one.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
You hit it at this moment.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Where a sport that has been popular, certainly popular in
Europe and other parts of the world, really explodes globally.
What has that been like to you know, be a
part of that journey and also to sort of participate
in your own, you know, sort of journey of notoriety
(02:23):
and becoming probably more famous than you thought you would
ever be.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I think F one over the last couple of years
as at an incredible rite social media streaming platform, you
know Netflix, the SERI another F one movie is coming out.
It just shows how incredible the boom of F one
is going at the minutant. Some yeah, funny stories when
(02:50):
I started in Formula when I remember my first year
in Olstein, going out one night the restaurant and start
talking with someone and the guy comes and goes us, so,
what are you doing? And like, I am a driver,
And first reaction was, yeah, what type of driver? F
one driver? What is that like Nascar? And I remember
(03:11):
I felt so many times to explain in the past
what F one was, just like yeah, that work kind
of Nascar, like slightly different. And it just shows like
in a couple of years, because I mean that was
less than years in twenty seventeen, yeah, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,
and in the space of like six seven years, the
(03:33):
interest for Formula One, especially in the States, as multiplied
by I don't know, six seven eights, you know, like
the older Ostine Miami Vegas, everything sold out and the
interest of American people in the sport is just huge now.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So I think because fast forward started to interrupt you.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
But fast forward from not being recognized, not even not
even understand what you do in a bar in Austin,
the restaurant in Austin, to then this year twenty twenty
five big in Times Square, yeah, celebrated you know as
sort of one of the biggest cultural moments probably in
(04:14):
all of sport and culture.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I think that's one of the biggest evolution in a
sport we've seen, like especially in the in the last decade,
you know, for F one, just to show obviously it
came with some you know, having definitely a different pathway
and access to our sport, we had to open a
lot our doors and show a lot more from what
we do within our F one circle, but also personally
(04:40):
us as drivers kind of open the doors on who
we are because we get recognized with our elemets on
her head because people see a driver, Okay, that guy
is a yellow element, that guy's blue element and oh yeah,
I know this Charles Leclaar guy come from Monaco. But
you know, in the past they recognize us with the
color of our shutoilement to our race number. But people
(05:01):
don't really see who we are as individuals and we
all humans, we all have different personalities, We have different
interests that we don't get to expose many times because
you know, I finish a race an hour and a
half full of adrenaline. What do you think about the
last crash? You've just died like five minutes ago. You're
running high on emotions, high on adrenaline. What you display
(05:21):
of yourself is very different to the guy you are,
you know, on the normal middle of the week, as
human beings, normal feelings, and with the values that you own.
So I think the sport did very well and showing
that side of the drivers, race drivers and people actually
bought a lot more into it, into understanding the dynamics
(05:43):
of drivers, teams, team managers, the business being Formula one
and not only focusing on the track action. But yeah,
definitely the fan base has grown massively.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, And so as someone who intimately understands the business,
you've been in it for a while, you clearly have
a business mind. What happens next for the business of
Formula One? What does it need to do to continue
this sort of momentum.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
At the moment, I'm focusing on my race, right, There'll
be a time where I'm sure I'll have other interest
in the sport in a bigger picture. But I think
that's a good question. I mean, there there is a
lot to do, and we see F one as a
sport is doing a huge amount. You know, we just
increasing the number of races, the interest from the biggest
(06:32):
brands in the world, you know, collaborating with Formula one
as a sport, but collaborating with the teams, with the drivers.
The interest on a business wise, I think has massively
increased in terms of opportunities we get just at our
level in terms of drivers and you know, collaborations we
can do in terms of brands. So I think everyone
(06:54):
is doing very well. The value of the sport as
not going to give any numbers out because I'm not
too sure about them, but clearly is doing very very well.
And that thanks to you know, people watching, people supporting
people's interest in our sport.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Right adding another team obviously, you know, coming on the grid,
you know you mentioned something really important, which is, you know,
brands becoming more and more interested in aligning themselves with teams.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
With the sport. Also, you know, with the drivers.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
This week you're gonna you know, do a big project
with Jivanji. That's a huge deal for you. How did
those sorts of things come to you? And do you
feel like both the power of the sport and your
own brand are part of the attraction there.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I think being an athlete in twenty twenty five is
is a huge chance, even more than what it used
to be. I think there is a real interest from
brands to use top athletes, not only in Formula one,
I think at all levels and all types of sports,
but to use these figures that people can relate to,
(08:04):
that people get inspired from. So I think the more
exposure we get as a support, obviously in Formula one,
the more interest these brands will want to collaborate with us.
And that's what we see. So obviously I don't deal
with that myself directly. I got a team around me,
which I had to to build over time, because that
(08:25):
didn't it's not from the first day I got to
f one that I had, you know, all these deals
coming straight away on the table, but you know, working
over the years and the interest growing for sure, now
you know I was went from a moment where I
was looking for deals and opportunities to a moment where
you've got to be selective in what you do. And
(08:47):
be careful in the way that you know, you use
your image and the brands that you work with. So
there's been a huge evolution and that's why everybody within
Formula one is benefiting from an orgainzation point of view,
from a team point of view, from a driver point
of view, and even from a Finn point of view,
because I think what's out there right as a sport
(09:09):
as a better quality and a better access and they
able to get more into the sport and into let's
say our life as an athlete than they were before.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And so what's the process that you went through to
build that team around you? Because you're a young guy,
I mean, you know you have a huge measure of
you know, financial success, but also notoriety and visibility. How
do you go about choosing the people that are going
to be around you?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I will say to start, I was one of the
few guys to get into Formula one without a management
company I think, which you know with insight was ad
is pros and cons as well in terms of how
is it made to get into the sport. But always
been someone that needs a huge amount of trust to
(10:01):
be able to work with people, especially when it comes
to my career, knowing all the sacrifices that went into it.
I never felt initially comfortable to, you know, give that
side of things, which is crucially important to someone I
not fully trust. So it took me some years, a
lot of meetings, met a lot of people within Formula one,
(10:22):
until you know, I found the right guy and my
manager at the moment we started after my first year
in Formula one, and that I've been working with ever since.
But it's over the years I had the chance to
have my family supporting me a lot, my four brothers,
older brothers, and a very good system that I could
rely on and that I could get advice from to
(10:45):
make sure that you know, I make the right decision.
I'm ob basically someone very driven. I know what I want,
I know exactly where I go. But I think it's
very important to me also to have feedback in confirmation
from people I can trust that they feel the same
thing as I do, and that you know, my project
(11:08):
being a Formula one and willing to be a Formula
one world champion, that everything is aligning in the way
that it should. And I think I add the chance
to the family I have. I'm very lucky. Not everybody
gets that chance, and that's why I want to contribute,
you know, for young drivers, in bringing that sort of
support and environment and structure to advice in the best
(11:29):
way possible, because it's very easy to make, you know,
a wrong decision that could impact a carrier very negatively
and unfortunately have quite big consequences. So it's extremely important
to be surrounded by the right people.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It's interesting too to think about the roster of drivers
at any given time in Formula one, because people change teams.
You know, you've driven for several teams, there's always some
sort of movement. Are there people who've who are either
currently on the grid or you know, maybe previously who
you sort of model yourself after, especially when it comes
(12:18):
to not just as a driver, but it's.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Sort of a more holistic sort of business person.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I think it's funny you ask about Formula one just
to me. I always learn a lot from meeting people
in different environments, so successful people in their industries, whether
you're talking business industries, whether you're talking other sports football, NFL, NBA,
(12:44):
let's say it's still in the sport industry. But I
really love those conversations I have with them where we
can open up as athletes and understanding, well, we know
this is quite difficult to manage in a career, whether
it's exposure, whether it's fame, whether it's finance, whether it's management,
whether it's family. You know, just working your own setup
(13:07):
and you know, keeping everything as safe and control as possible.
So we talk a lot, and I learned so much
from this conversation. I love it because that's where I
really feel I'm getting a lot of useful insights I
can use in my career in my personal life. So
not necessarily in formula one to answer your question, we
(13:27):
obviously very close to chelse lea clerk for example. I
grew up with him, and we share so much that
is very useful for our career, or at least to
me for my career and personal life because we're living,
you know, the same type of life. But I love
to have these conversations with people away from the sport,
(13:48):
where I'll find them as constructive and as useful as
the one I have with the people within the sport.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, you mentioned football, and you know obviously you haven't
invested in American football yet, but you haven't in a
football club, right, here in France, in versa i FC
tell me how that deal came about and why it's
interesting to you, especially from an ownership perspective, because endorsing
is one thing, but owning is it is an entirely
(14:13):
other thing.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, it's a new project. I've been involved in the
FCBL side for a year and now I think football
has always been you know, there is Formula one in
my life, my love for Formula one, but football is
right there, right and so it's been a huge passion
since I was a kid. I played football from the
(14:35):
age of six until eleven. I had to make a
choice and luckily I made the right choice back then
between cutting or football. But who knows football, I can't
guarantee you I made the right call. Yeah, but I've
always had the will of being involved in football in
(14:55):
a whale or another growing up. Even though I was
following that motorsport career path, was already thinking maybe after
my motor sport career, I can play football like in
a matirish level. And I've been a big fan following
a lot any football competition in France, European level, World Cup,
et cetera. Watch a lot of games and I've always
(15:18):
wanting to have a somehow I can input inside the
sport and all the time over the years again network
through Formula one. Feel very lucky being an e F
one driver because it opens so many doors. And you know,
the two other owners of FC vs I contacted me
a year and a half ago, knowing that I was big,
(15:39):
big fan of football and having a lot of interest
into the sport, and yeah, the first conversation started, and
becoming a potential owner and having my input as a
professional athletes from the experience of my career and what
it takes working in this type of environments, you know,
within a team of fifteen hundred people working in between
(16:01):
Enstone and friends in Formula one and trying to use
that experience at a more let's say third division level
football and our values matched straight away. The vision as well,
matched straight away. And I had a couple of opportunities
to get into football in the last three years, but
none of them really connected with me. Oh, I didn't
(16:23):
find myself in those projects, and that one became a
life a year ago, and it's amazing. It's amazing insight
from a different perspective because I'm an athlete. I see
things as an athlete point of view in Formula one.
Now in football, from a management point of view, things
(16:44):
are quite different. We all have our different role within
the organization and I'm probably more focused on the sporting
and trying to provide these guys the best environment and platform,
and let's say, an environment where everybody can excel in
what they're doing and not gonna lie. The Ryan Reynolds
(17:05):
story with Rex Tim was also quite inspiring, sure, and
what they did, and it's absolutely incredible to see what
they've achieved, and you know, hopefully one day we can
come close to what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up because as
you were talking, I was thinking about this idea.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You know, you're going into into football.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That's a relatively new thing that athletes, especially current athletes,
are taking ownership stakes. Was that sort of an obvious
thing you wanted to do, because that is a it's
sort of a new phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah. I must say it's becoming more and more common
to have athletes joining teams, I think for different reasons
from not everybody get access to this type of ownership,
but I think it depends on the individual and what
do they have to bring to the table, what's their intention,
what's the background, was their skill sets? And some time
(18:00):
it matches. You see, there is a question of exposure.
As an athlete, we have a huge exposure and there's
a real interest now from organization to kind of collaborates
with at least to use that exposure in growing an organization.
And yeah, I think there's a lot of parallels as
an athlete in managing your carrier that can be very
(18:23):
useful from an ownership point of view.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, And so with that in mind, is that a
bit of a predictor of you know, what your life
might look like when you do stop driving? You know,
because you know, I don't know the athlete's career ultimately ends.
I know you don't want to think about that right now,
But like, as you think well down the line, do
you think about sports ownership more? Do you think about
(18:47):
broader business like what are your longer term goals when
it comes to, you know, the business side of Pierre Gastling.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
I don't think I other stop driving my career.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I'm you're going to be the oldest point and they're
be driving an F one car around the circuit und
years old.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But when you're not doing that.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Well, my career might stop. I still be driving something.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You'll be driving something, probably very fast.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
No, I think it's yeah, to touch on what you
just said. I think it's being aware. That's you know,
every sportsman's career comes to a net end at some point,
and life still carries on for many, many years. And
it's not all about dose heres at the top level
(19:36):
of the sport that you're in. It's about what you build.
And the question should not come the day you stop,
because it's already late. And I think I was again
lucky to be surrounded by the right people to make
me aware about that situation and being you've got to
be one hundred percent focus on what's going on right now,
(19:58):
but just prepare the future in a way of you
having a platform thanks to your sport and the position.
I mean now I'm given opportunities that may be different
in the future. Wants everything ends and the interest will
obesily decrease as well. So it's more like, yeah, preparing
that pass away from the life I'll start once my
(20:19):
career and not anytime closed. But yeah, being aware of
that and the way might look like, you know, time
will tell I obviously have a lot of interest into sport,
into the business side of things. You know, I have
a lot of ideas in you know, the sort of
industries that I like to be part of, but it's
(20:40):
obviously at the moment allowing me time to you know,
grow my knowledge about it and make sure I make
the right thing, because I'm the type of person when
I get involved into a project, I like to I'm
doing it one hundred percent, So I commit myself hundred percent.
And with FCVs I I'm doing it for the long term.
I'm not looking at a few years of excitement and
(21:04):
thrill and then getting out of it, and I'm doing
it for the journey, and you know, the journey that
comes with it, and that's the way I am. So yeah,
there are definitely a lot of projects and industries I
like to explore. We live in a time where things
evolve extremely fast and you know, technologies, things ten years
ago were very different to what they are now. Seeing
(21:26):
myself in if one for another tenure, and I know
in tenure things will look the world will be evolving
and will be quite different. So yeah, it's in the
back of my mind. But I'm also giving allowing myself
some time to make sure make the right calls in
the future.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
It's interesting, you know, and I say, this is someone
who you know, talks to a lot of people like
you on a regular basis. You are at it earlier,
I think than a lot of people are. You're approaching
it with a level of seriousness that not all do.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Where do you think that comes from?
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I think from ultimately my family, you know, having this
sort of like work ethics, and I think it's also
something I've had within me since a very young age.
So I'm extremely competitive, I have a very clear mind
in what I want to achieve, very harsh on myself
and the mending. And that's the way I always motivate
(22:30):
myself by already from a very young age not accepting
anything less than perfection, which is impossible. So you know,
I kept hitting a hard wall, always trying to do
things better and always trying to achieve a better level
and push the boundaries of myself a bit further, and
(22:51):
to actually achieve that. I think over time it was
quite harsh. But I've really matured quite quickly and became
aware of different things quite early on in my career.
But I think growing up also in a family with
folder brothers, I've always said it was definitely a luxury
because you know, having older brothers, you can see what
(23:11):
they do well, what they do not ideally, and very
learn from it from a young age and not too sure.
There are things that you know, every individual we have
our personalities and that's the way I grew up and
probably what the sport told me and what I learned
through my own career with Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
It's interesting that you say that because twenty nine years old,
and yet you know, you have to walk into that
factory on a good day on a bad day, and
you are you're the leader of the team, and not
just the leader of a small team, leader of a
big team.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
You know, a thousand plus.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
People who you're working with, but ultimately need to inspire
and motivate in order to get the result that you need.
How did you prepare yourself for that or was it
just something that you had to sort of.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Learn on the job.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I had to learn on the spot, because I
mean it's obviously I've always been kind of a leader
in anything I do since a very young age. Like
I kind of like the position and the responsibilities of
you know, having people on board, and I think that
was a chance to play football from you know a
very young age. Is once you jump in a gokut,
(24:22):
for example, it's you're steering and yourself and it's up
to you to go as fast as you can at
that given moment. When you play on a pitch, you
got ten of the teammates. You need everybody to do
their job correctly. And I felt as a kid already
I had to be behind them to pull them, create
the right space and the right mindset and push everybody.
(24:44):
I quite like that leader petition, and I think growing
up I've tried to develop those skills, try to put
myself in this type of situation because you're not always
given that chance. And even in Formula one, as wasn't
always in a position of leading a team. And it's
really position I embrace where I feel as a driver,
(25:05):
I can contribute in a better way, and I feel
that's when I'm able to excel in what I do,
when I get given that space and that structure and
environment to actually be myself and try to contribute in
my own way. Do feel pressure, massive pressure, But if
I got I admit I felt more pressure as a
(25:28):
kid going up the ladder of motor sports, not knowing
whether from one year to another my entire career was
going to stop. It's like I had to win those
races from a very young age because I didn't have
the funding to make it to the next year, and
if I would not win, I wouldn't be able to
(25:48):
find sponsors to carry on. So the pressure I felt
as a kid was tremendous and really became so useful
to manage the pressure in Formula One, which is very
different but in a way more manageable from what I've
learned in the past. All over those early days.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
How is it different.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I'm much more in control. I'm much more aware of
who I am and what I'm good at and what
I'm bad at. Let's say you know bad, let's say
not the best at. And once you know your skill sets,
it's easy to use. First of all, it brings you
confidence in what you do, so you know the situation
(26:31):
that you'll be able to really excel and really bring
a lot of positive and I know the situations where
some of my teammate or people I work with will
be better at managing these type of situations. When you're
a kid. You don't really have those references. You don't
really you kind of like figuring yourself along all those years.
(26:52):
You try to do good things, but you're not too sure.
As a kid, I was like, I want to be
in Formula one. I want to be the best, But
do I have these skills to actually get there? Well,
I think so, But this kid is very fast. This
other kid is very fast, and he wants to be
informal I one as much as I want to do
as I want to be there, And I think you
have a lot less confidence in those early years. And
(27:15):
then yeah, over the over time, I've grown up and
kind of figured myself out, and I keep figuring myself
out every single day because when I broke up to
the factory and got to talk to a talent people.
I try to do what's best and I try to
be as clear and multiversional as possible with what I know.
But there is a better way of doing things. I
don't do it the best way. The intention is the best.
(27:38):
I know what I want to you know, the values
and what's being the stuff I want to say, But
no one's perfect. So you're also learning along the way,
but with slightly more confidence in what I'm capable of doing.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It is such a fascinating sport too, because you know
you have competitors all around, including in your own factory.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know you've got a teammate that you're.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Competing with, as does you know every other or every
other person. How do you balance sort of the needs
of the team versus the needs of the driver. That's
one of the quintessential questions around your sport.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I think it's an amazing question because you've got to
figure out when you come in Formula one, you are
let's say, the only driver on equal machinery is your teammates,
and you've got to work with him to make the
old team better, but obviously keeping in mind that you
(28:29):
want to be the best out of the two. And
then I think it's an amazing dynamic and I think
it's a great question on how we're able to balance that.
I think the key thing is understanding by working together,
you raise the overall performance of the team, which ultimately
will give you the best chances of beating all the
other guys, which is the primary goal as a team.
(28:52):
Doesn't matter who win within the team, we want the
team to be the best position possible and to achieve that,
you've got to work very closely and very well with
that teammates. Once you get the max out of the team,
then you get on track. Then obviously then comes the
competition within you know, the rules, because there's guidelines that
(29:14):
you've got to respect. Us teammates can go over over
that limit, but obviously that's when the competition comes in.
You know, having the age over your teammates, which is
ultimately the goal of any driver.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
And so you know, sort of along these lines mean
you are clearly very passionate but also very thoughtful about
this sport.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
What's your favorite thing about it?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
What is the thing that sort of pun intended, sort
of drives you At this point, you've had a lot
of success, more to come, but not enough. You're very competitive,
You're very driven. What is the part of it that
motivates you the most?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So what I love the most is the racing part,
you know, racing, getting behind the wheel, racing the other
eighteen twenty best driver in the world. There is nothing
that I find more exciting and gives me such a thrill,
you know, in my life. This is once I get
in that cockpit, put the visor down, the lights go on.
(30:13):
That's when I get the best feeling in my life,
and I only get it once I'm on that grid
or when i'm whenever I'm in that car. So this
is the best job in the in the world, in
my opinion, the best feeling. I'm very lucky to get
to be in the position that I am today. I'm
working really out for it, and as you say it,
(30:35):
I've had some success, but far from what I want
to achieve in the sport, and there's much more I
need to do, let's say, to fulfill myself entirely. But yeah,
it's it's a fascinating sport. What I love about the
driving parties, you know, taking those cars to the limit,
the speeds, the adrenaline you get pushing this you know,
(30:58):
monster on four wheels up to the limit is really exciting.
And the lovely part about it is once you get
induced calls, nothing crosses you onlind You went to a
state of mind where the focus is so intense it
requires one hundred percent of your capacities and it takes
(31:19):
you to a different dimension. And that's the only moment
of my life where I get to that state.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I can't think of a better place to end. Thank
you so much. This is really fun.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Thank you, thanks so much for listening to this interview
from my Bloomberg Originals documentary.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Mini series power Players. You watch the full series.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
On the Bloomberg Originals YouTube page. Power Players is a
production of Bloomberg Originals and this interview was produced by
Baldwin Tang and Sophia Chalmer. James knight Gale was the
sound recorded. The Deal is a production for Blueberg Podcast
in Bloomberg Originals. This episode was produced by Innamazakis, Stacy Wang,
and Lizzie Phillip. Our theme music was made by Blake Maples.
(32:03):
Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig, and Amy Keen.
Sage Bauman is our head of podcast. If you have
a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll help
other listeners find us. I'm Jason Kelly. Thanks so much
for listening.
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