November 18, 2020 • 33 mins
As a new president prepares to take office and the country continues to reel from the effects of the pandemic, income inequality and workers' rights remain a central issues in our country. To speak more about these issues, Pete is joined by two of the most active and dynamic figures in the labor movement today: Missouri State Rep. Rasheen Aldridge and Mary Kay Henry, president of Service Employees International Union (SEIU), one of the largest labor unions in America. Together, they discuss the fight for a $15 minimum wage, the correlation between racial and economic inequality, and the importance of local governments for workers rights.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, I'm Pete Buttah Judge, and this is the deciding decade.
As a new president prepares to take office in the
country continues to reel from the effects of the pandemic.
Income inequality and workers rights remain a central issue in
our country. Americans are clearly seeking a better deal for workers.
(00:26):
Polls and referendum results show strong support for measures like
a higher minimum wage. Yet traditional organized labor has seen
its membership shrink, and even union members don't always vote
for pro labor political candidates. I think it's a vital
time to assess the future of labor for the decade
ahead and to recognize the extraordinary organizing work going on
(00:47):
on the ground. I'm very much looking forward to this
conversation with two of the most active and dynamics figures
in the labor movement today, Mary Kay Henry and Representative
Rachine Aldridge. For a decade now, Mary Kay Henry has
been the president of sei You Service Employees International Union,
an organization made up of two million members across key industries.
(01:08):
Under her leadership, SEIU has broken new ground, helping to
organize workers in new ways and reaching out to kinds
of workers who have lacked representation in the past. This
is just part of why she was recently named one
of times most influential people, and we are grateful to
have her today. We also have Representative Rashin Aldridge, recently
re elected as a state representative in Missouri's seventy eight district.
(01:32):
In two thousands sixteen, he was elected as committeeman of St.
Louis's fifth ward at age twenty two, becoming the youngest
elected city official in the city's history. A leading activist
in the Fight for Fifteen and Black Lives Matter movements,
he has chaired organizations including Young Activist United St. Louis
and Missouri Jobs with Justice, and serves on the Ferguson Commission,
(01:53):
created after the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri
in two thousand fourteen. He is a walking example of
Next January leadership on issues that will impact all of
us in the decade and error to come. Welcome Rachine
and Mary Kay. Thanks so much for taking time to
speak with us. Good to be with you, Glad to
be here, thanks for having me. So it's an exciting time.
I think we should just begin by asking where were
(02:14):
you when you got the news that our president elect
had been officially called, and what was the first thing
that went through your mind? I was getting my marching
boots on and was headed downtown San Francisco to a
rally to protect the results and count it reballot. And
so I threw open my window and started shouting and
banging pots along with all of my neighbors. And then
(02:37):
I went down to Harry Bridges Plaza and danced with
a lot of home care workers and nursing home workers
and fast food Fight for fifteen leaders to celebrate a
huge step forward for our country. How nice to be
taken to their streets rejoicing, and not just how about you?
I mean I think like most people, I was glued
(02:59):
to the television, uh for the last couple of days,
just was trying to figure out what had happened. So
when the uh you know, it came down that President
elect Joe Biden was going to be the next president,
I was right in front of TV. I've seen it
happen when we all yelled. I live in a like
nice little compound. I called my friends two point out house, um.
And then after that I took the Facebook and I
(03:19):
was asked a couple of people how about we take
to our streets just outside our own community, block it
off and have a black party in which we did.
It was just a moment to celebrate, and take this
moment in victory to celebrate and know that the work
is continuing. But you gotta take those little small moments
to say, look, we did it together. One of the
things I kept thinking about was the fact that there
(03:40):
was such sweeping support for things like a fifteen dollar
minimum wage and a right to representation, and yet all
too often we still see political figures who are really
against that kind of growth still succeeding. Florida was very
striking a victory for the movement. I think something like
six voting for that referendum for the fifteen dollar minimum wage,
(04:06):
and yet that was also a state that went read
on the electoral map. I wonder, representative, you're you're in
a red state, although, as I like to say, here
in Indiana, no such thing as they permanently read state.
How do you think these issues play out and how
do we kind of square the circle between the widespread
public support for things like higher wages and the ability
(04:27):
of anti labor politicians to prevail even in states that
want to see these things change. Yeah, back in two thousand, UM,
this was a message of the five or fifteen fifteen
in a union that at at first a lot of
folks was unaware of. But I think as as it
continued to echo from New York City to Chicago to St. Louis,
(04:48):
Um to Indiana, to South Carolina and so many other states,
we started to understand that this message of a higher
wage isn't anything honestly radical at all. You're talking about
providing people the ability to live and work one job
and be able to provide for their family, be able
to provide for their future, and be able to have
a union, a group that's gonna be able to protect
(05:09):
you in this workplace. And what we've seen over these
last couple of years is while many elected officials haven't
quickly got on board, they have been getting on board. Um.
The message of a liberal wage and the opportunity to
thrive is only growing. And you're seeing it now grow
from workers that are organizing in it, um moving from
in the workplace to move into running for office. I'm
(05:30):
not the only worker that's actually elected, it's it's a
couple of faster workers in South Carolina California and also
Illinois that recently just got elected this past election, and
that energy is only growing. The message of justice and
freedom for all is I think a message that even
politicians can't stop. Barrick Henry, how does that track with
what you're seeing in in the national conversations that we're having,
(05:52):
and can we build on the support that's been expressed
on these referendum matters to make sure that we're all
so pressuring both parties to do the right thing, but
also electing leaders who have made it a key part
of their platform that they're going to raise wages and
make workers better all. I think the Florida vote gives
us huge momentum at the national level to make fifteen
(06:15):
dollars minimum wage for everybody in this nation and to
connect that to why workers have to have the right
to join a union. And that's why we're so excited
about Biden's caregiving economy plan as part of his build
Back Better because black and brown voters showed up in
record numbers to deliver a record setting vote for Biden Harris,
(06:38):
and they could reinvest in those same voters by making
jobs that black and brown women have done for over
a century that's been excluded from minimum wage, excluded from
the right to join a union. We could make that
possible with bold federal action. I agree with you, Pete
that there's huge momentum for people to understand and that
(07:00):
racial and economic inequality hold the nation back from everybody
being able to thrive in the way that Representative Aldridge
just taught us, and being able to act on that
as a first order of business, I think is going
to be critical for voters understanding that government can work
to make a material change in their lives. Immediately, you
(07:25):
describe the multiracial character of this coalition, which is so important.
How have you an s c I you been intentional
about the interaction of racial and economic justice and what
might that teach us about what has to happen next
in terms of governing as well as the future of
our politics. Well, we back movement leaders like Rashine Aldridge,
(07:46):
who started out as a fast food worker and he
can tell the story, it's a great one and is
now representing his district in the Missouri State Legislature, which
is an example to me of how we are trying
to back black and brown service and care workers who
have been structured out of the economy because of racism
(08:08):
and because of corporate power. And we're not going to
let those two things keep us from making sure that
the sixty four million people that earn less than fifteen
dollars get a path to fifteen and the right to
join a union, so those fifteen dollar in our jobs
can become good union jobs that are the foundation of
the most racially diverse middle class this nation has ever seen.
(08:31):
You know that that point about how these jobs become
good jobs. I think it's a really powerful one too,
because I live in South Bend, the city that really
grew up around manufacturing, and like many communities, you know,
UH is so fiercely protective of manufacturing jobs because they
are good jobs in terms of the pay, the benefits.
One thing I think we often forget is they didn't
(08:53):
used to be good jobs. You know, these were considered
some of the most dangerous, underpaid, undesirable jobs in America
a hundred years ago, and organized labor saw to it
these these were not just any jobs, but jobs that
could become the backbone of middle class. And as we
see now, things like the service sector growing, and think
(09:14):
also about the racial diversity of the workers who hold
those jobs. If every service job had the same kind
of aura of completeness around it that so many manufacturing
jobs have had, it's amazing to think what that could fuel.
I also love your pointing out that Representative all dries
story is a great example of the success of this movement.
So let's turn to your representative to share that story.
(09:35):
From a fast food worker to office in the state
capital of Missouri. Tell us about that journey and how
your experience of empowerment might be something that others can
learn from. Absolutely, Pete, when I say the Fight for
fifteen movement, I don't. I don't just say it to
say it. Who really wasn't for the Fight for fifteen
campaign and the way that this union has been able
(09:58):
to empower individuals me, I don't. I don't come from
a union background. I grew up in the neighborhood very
high poverty um. The medium income in my zip code
was fifteen thousand. You know, I didn't know anything about organizing.
And one day I was at Jimmy John's and someone
came in and they started questioning me and asked me about,
you know, how much the sandwich was on the menu,
(10:20):
and how much that sandwich was actually more than I
was making as an employee that've been there for two years,
and asked me questions of you know, what do I
spend my money on? Because I think what people don't understand,
a lot of individuals in these fast food industries, um,
aren't young people like myself. And even when they are young,
and the times we're in now, we're not going to
spend these funds out at the mall. You know, we're
(10:41):
helping our mom, we're helping our family, make sure we
got a central stuff like tarlet paper, milk, eggs, and
a lot of folks in these low wage jobs or
women who have families of two and three. So this
movement for me, I was very timid and shy, uh
until I met a couple of organizers and they really
howard workers like myself to know that, you know, when
(11:02):
we come together collectively. Um, even though a manager made
me hold a sign that said I made three wrongs
sandwiches and took a picture. A couple of months later,
you know, me and my co workers came together collectively
went out on strike among along with many other workers
in the city of St. Louis. That manager, the next
day was actually gone. But that show to somebody like
(11:23):
me who never say knew what a union wasn't organizing,
was that when we come together collectively, that we really
can make a change. And we've seen it here in
the state of Missouri. Even when they bought back against us,
we pushed back and we still had a minimum wage
increase in St. Louis and that was due to the
skills and the opportunity that the union. And I think
(11:43):
that's what is so important to make sure that we,
you know, don't miss that union element. You know, the
wages is important, but if we can't miss the importance
of having a group of individuals, which are the workers,
which are me and my co workers, come together collectively
saying we love our jobs, but it can be better.
Even though we don't have a union with the five
or fifteen, we act as if we are union because
(12:05):
we know it's coming soon. And that is something that
would never erase my mind as I continue to go
over and oder and oder uh in my career, how
strong it is to have a union and when we
come together collectively we can move mountains. We've seen it, uh,
when back in two thousand sixteen, when Hillary Clinton, Secretary
(12:26):
Clinton and Senator Bernie Sanders said fifteen an hour, it
was like what you know? And now we have President
a leg Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris saying
that in the first hundred days they want to raise
the wages and give people a union. That is what
it's about. So I'm sure you've heard some people talking
(13:00):
about politics and the Democratic Party saying, you know, racial
justice is important, but we really need to focus on
kitchen table issues. You are a leader in the labor movement,
you're a leader in the movement for black lives. This
is clearly not a contradiction for you. What do you
say to people who seem to think that we have
to choose either or We can't say black lives matter
(13:24):
without forgetting that a lot of those black lives and
workers work in these low age facilities. We can't talk
about racial injustice without economic injustice because they go hand
in hand and most communities of color, majority of jobs
you see are McDonald's Wendy's. But you can't have one
(13:44):
conversation without the other. It is important that our party,
as a Democratic member, you know, take the time and
even with sci you take the time to have tough
conversations and be able to let those leaders uh stand
up and speak out and figure out how do we
all move forward together. Because you can't talk about climate
change without talking about racial injustice. You can't talk about
(14:06):
health care and justice. I'll talk about racial injustice. We
look at this pandemic. You know, most individuals that have
been affected due to the Corona haven't been getting services
to Those communities have been communities of color. So conversational
race should be driven in all the different conversations we have,
because that is a tough conversation I have. But once
we get past that hurdle and understand, you know what
(14:28):
these communities are saying. That's been decades, nothing has really
changed from the civil rights era Martin Luther King time
to the Ferguson movement that we've seen a couple of
years ago. But we have to continue to have both
those conversations because when you Stacy Abrams, shout out to
Stacey Abrams, it is black women that is leading the charge,
even in our own party. So we cannot neglect the
(14:50):
fact that this is the issue. But we have to
move forward together on it. Absolutely, Mary Kay, I want
to pick up on one thing the representative mentioned that
I think is is really interesting and important. The goal
is to make sure everyone has access to a union,
but you're not waiting for people to be in a
union to be organizing and empowering them. So can you
talk a little bit about what I think are often
called the not yet organized at your events, and how
(15:13):
you've found ways to serve people who aren't in a
position to officially be represented and yet can be empowered
through that, and and how that strategically is going to
continue to be important in the future. Yeah, Rashin gave
his example, and think of like thousands of machines who
understand through the example that he described about at first,
(15:38):
he doesn't know what a union is. His manager is
incredibly disrespectful to him and some co workers. That ignites
his desire to make a change. He takes action through
his coworkers and strikes, which is an act of a union.
You know, then there's a change based on the collective action.
(16:00):
And it's thanks to the courageous leadership of people like
Rashine and the Fight for fifteen that has brought hope
to home care workers, to nursing home workers, to airport
workers to Amazon workers, believing that hey, if we act together,
we can make a change. What we need now is
to get our government to stand with the fearlessness and
(16:23):
courage of these workers and unrigged the rules that exclude
people from the right to join a union. There's forty
six percent of the American workforce has no legal right
to join a union. And that's what the government has
the power to change. In addition to McDonald's, Wendy's and
Burger King, not waiting for legislative change but deciding to
(16:45):
set a national bargaining table for four million fast food
workers and making those jobs a foundation of the next
middle class. Just like auto jobs did for steel and
rubber and all the other parts of the manufacturing sector
in the last century. We need to make that happen
now for the service sector that's so powerful and uh,
(17:05):
of course that that disproportionately likely to be black and
brown and women right because of the way that labor law,
often intentionally, as part of the political compromises of almost
a century ago, excluded black and brown workers and women
from some of those protections that we think of is
why the New Deal was was so effective and empowering.
(17:28):
We'll take us into the kind of short to medium
term future on what's going to mean to deliver these rules,
especially if we're facing divided government. You know we're going
to be working very hard at least uh. I know
everybody in my party will be to to take the
Senate and have a more labor friendly Senate majority, but
we don't know if that's going to happen. So the
things you're talking about, how much of that can be
(17:50):
achieved through things like rulemaking, through executive action or administrative work,
and how much of this is fundamentally a question about legislation.
I think there's lots we can do on rulemaking, but
I have to say our expectation is we're gonna win
the Georgia runoffs both seats, and we need to exercise
the will of the majority, even if it's by one
(18:13):
vote in the Senate. Let's make bold, transformative change. Because
people showed up in record numbers black and brown voters,
save this democracy, save this economy, and we need to
invest in them and their communities and their jobs on
a scale that is equivalent to the depth of the
(18:34):
crisis that people are experiencing. Based on the pandemic. Too
many black and brown families are grieving too many losses
because of the inaction of the federal government. Too many
black and brown families have most of their extended family
out of work because this is a recession and depression
that has hit the service sector, and God knows, too
(18:54):
many black and brown families have suffered the trauma of
violence in their communities and that needs to end. We
need to make those communities as safe as white communities
in this country. And the climate crisis impacts us all,
and so we really don't want to lower expectations to
only changing the rules based on executive action. That of course,
(19:16):
is part of our arsenal. But we have the expectation
that even with a one vote majority, the will of
the people here is overwhelming that we wanted to see change,
and we expect that as fifteen dollars and a right
to join a union for millions more workers, I representative.
As you're navigating those halls of power where you've earned
(19:39):
a place, how are you being received And how do
you think being young has shaped you, know, good or
bad or indifferent? How do you think it's it's shaped
your ability to make change? A lot of people tell
me I'm a little wiser beyond my time, but I
still could be uh twenty six, And you know, don't
rush it. Uh. You know, one thing about it is
regardless of being elected official. I think what you're seeing
(20:00):
a lot of people like I mentioned some fast fo
workers and low wage workers that recently was just elected
into office this past election day, is those individuals aren't
looking to get elected for a title. At the same time,
as I'm a politician, I'm still an activist that would
be out in the streets with individuals when it's needed
the most and as I navigate, especially in a state
(20:23):
like Missouri that's difficult at times. We were lying a
lot on the local level um to do a lot
of the pushing up on these policies and progressive agenda
that moves us forward. You know, I'm here to really
be able to help push those conversations, even though there's
folks on the opposite end. Shouldn't be us versus them.
(20:43):
So this is a moment for all of us, and
that's how I look at it. Even though I'm a Democrat,
I call myself more of an issuecrat because it's the
issues that even I learned with the Fight for fifteen
when elected officials were saying no the issues that was
driving people to be excited was what got folks out
and organized and got people ready to do whatever it
(21:04):
took to get these policies done. So I kind of
look at it into phases, you know, educating and building
relationships across that and really relying on our local levels
that are doing phenomenal job and our municipalities pushing policy
that ultimately go up to the state level. It's a
great point. I think we have often underestimated local government,
(21:25):
local politics, and especially local media as a way to
make sure that we make progress. Uh. Markay, how do
you view the kind of stacking of these different areas
where we can apply pressure get results, the local where
you know you can have immediate impact and where often
the party politics fall away a little bit, the state
(21:46):
where Representative Aldridge and so many like him are, where
so much power rests in our system. Uh. And then
the federal level. Of course that that is a different
landscape with the different president, but it's not the entire ballgame.
How how do you think about, even just as a
leader individually, how to organize your attention as well? As
the organization and the movement that that you leave, well,
(22:07):
I think the best lesson on what you've asked is
the fifteen movement. You know, we made a breakthrough when
the voters of a fifty four thousand person city in
se Tech, Washington authorized the fifteen dollar minimum wage against
national opposition. I think the campaign that was run against
(22:28):
that was like eight million dollars. The chamber got in
the manufacturers association and the voters said yes, and we
registered I think a thousand new eatrian Um part of
that community in order to take that initiative over the top.
They then marched to Seattle and the Seattle mayor's race
(22:48):
was contested over how are we dealing with inequality in Seattle?
In the fifteen dollar minimum wage became a way for
the candidates to differentiate themselves, and then they asked the
first minimum wage citywide in a major city. And then
it's spread across the country, so that now twenty nine
million people are on the path to fifteen dollars. We
(23:11):
just added three million more in Florida and the House
of Representatives passed it in eighteen. So I think of
the stack as exactly what Representative Aldridge just taught us
that the innovation often comes from cities like yours, Mayor
and South Bend and then gets catalyzed out and then
(23:34):
pushed up, especially on ideas that people dismiss, you know,
like fifteen was laughed at in twelve when it was demanded,
and it's now a mainstream debate where more and more
people are crossing over and understanding we have to intervene
on the worst racial and economic inequality of our generation.
(23:57):
And this is a key lever that disproportionately lift up
black and brown families because too many black and brown
families have been structured into minimum wage jobs because of
housing and education and all these other systems. Sei you,
(24:30):
certainly in the decade that you've been leading and for
some time has a wonderful reputation as one of the
most innovative labor organizations in the country, can you talk
about how you build that atmosphere of innovation and also
given some of the stereotypes that a previous generation might
have had about organized labor, Uh, you know, what lessons
does your organizing success maybe carry for shaping how labor
(24:55):
is perceived and how your fellow organizations and counter parts
might approach the decade ahead. You know, I've been blessed
in this work to walk beside nursing home workers in
when I first started organizing, who taught me that every
day of their lives are an innovation. They have to
(25:17):
be so creative in order to rob Peter, to pay Paul,
and make ends meet and raised children in this economy
that I think part of the innovation in our union
is fueled by the workers that make up our union.
They are living in terrible economic and racial circumstances that
(25:38):
require collective action in every aspect of their lives. And
so you know, we are born of immigrant workers in
Chicago who were told they were nothing more than servants,
and they stayed at it for ten years in order
to finally win a charter from the a f L
and get the building owners to recognize them as workers
(26:00):
and to actually be paid wages um. And so it's
hardwired into the DNA of our union to understand that
we have to raise wages for workers that have been
locked out of the economy. We cannot stand with the
movement for Black Lives and not fight for living wages
(26:20):
for black and brown people that will make a difference
for all workers. And our union's job is to talk
to workers, white, black, brown, Asian about why we have
to link those fights because we won't win better jobs
and more unions for working people unless we uproot systemic racism.
(26:41):
And that is not a natural idea to our working people.
But when we are in relationship with each other, as
Rashein said in Movements, and we learn about each other's lives,
it becomes a totally natural fight. How much of this
do you think is a generational question? Uh? Do you
(27:01):
think that folks your age and younger view the relationships
between racial and economic issues differently than the previous generation?
Or do you think it's it's really just one continuum
and each generation is kind of standing on the on
the work of the one that came before. I would say,
I think it's more of a continuation. Uh, you know,
we are standing on great shoulders of individuals. Just in
(27:23):
the city of St. Louis to highlight Percy Green, who
climbed the arch of Mama Jamala Rodgers and Percy was
actually one of the first activists that came and talked
to us as fast workers back in two thousand thirteen
and a church basement as we was about to you know,
get ready to go out on strike. It is those uh,
you know mentors that are only given knowledge to uh,
(27:45):
the younger generation. I think as each generation come along,
you know, there's different ways that those generations expressed themselves.
And I've been told as a young person and sometimes
you guys doesn't need to slow down and you know,
listen and let it play out. And I'm sure my
elders were told that when they were younger too, But
it's a continuation of the message hasn't changed. I think
(28:07):
we just figure out how to continue to change the
strategy because every time we make two or three steps forward,
opposition likes to push you back. And you gotta get creative.
You gotta do things differently, like the Fight for Fifteen movement,
you know, taking the risk to um bring in folks
that you know technically aren't member due paying dues, but
we kind of created our own member dudes amongst ourselves,
(28:29):
you know, taking that risk to say that you have
a bunch of these individuals that haven't been empowered in
a way that they don't know that they have their
own empowerment, but they just need a push. They doesn't
need a little bit of help, and it's not a
generational gap, which we do have those in certain areas,
but I think it's more of just a continuation of
(28:52):
the movement growing and shifting and changing as the world
also shifts and change. I wanted to ask each of
you a question that looks to the few. Sure you know,
this podcast is largely about the idea that the decade
we're entering into right now the Ties is going to
be decisive for American life really across this century. So
(29:13):
knowing how many lines of effort do you have underway,
how many elements of the agenda and the movement are
are perhaps about to have a breakthrough if you're looking
back from the perspective of what would you want to
say we got done in the Ties and what's the
work you think would still be waiting for us next.
I want all the sixty four million workers who are
(29:36):
living and working in poverty in this country that are
overwhelmingly black and brown women and men, to have a
decent job that they can raise a family on and
expect their kids are going to do better that they've done.
That We're gonna end working poverty in America and allow
for a minimum wage that people can actually thrive and
(30:00):
the right to form a union so we can create
the most multi racial, inclusive middle classes nation has ever seen.
You know, the idea that we could deliver that not
just in our lifetime, but across this decade is so
powerful because it really is true, it could happen if
we get this right. Representative Aldridge, same question to you,
but I'll ask it in a slightly different way. Imagine
(30:21):
a new, freshly minted young legislator shows up in the
state capital and Missouri in his early twenties, and you're
on the cusp of retirement from whatever great things you
go on to do, and you're showing this young whipper
snapper around and uh and telling them what what they
can expect in in the future based on what you
(30:44):
were able to see delivered in your time. What would
you want to be able to say to them we
did this. I would say to them, one always believe
in themselves, hope and changes is possible. There's going to
be so many roadblocks that ahead of us, and we've
made a lot of change in the process. Hopefully I'll
be able to look back and say, you know, we
(31:06):
have a place where people can love whoever they want
to love. Individuals can walk down the street and not
be a raz due to the color of their skin.
You know, workers will finally be able to work one
job forty hours a week and put away for their future.
Everyone will be able to have the type of healthcare
that they want in their life. Those are the issues
(31:27):
that I hope I'll be able to tell that young legislator.
But I also want to let them know to not
ever give up on hope and not to ever quit
believing that change is not possible. I know it gets tough,
especially when we're juggling so many things in the world
that we do or in our lives, but not to
give up because when we do come together and when
(31:47):
we do organize collectively and do when we fight, we
we gotta not act like we don't have to fight.
We definitely have to fight, but that the victory will
be at the end of the tunnel um and that
they are young legislator can make any change possible that
they want to see if it's with themselves, are collectively
with others that to remember to have their hope and
(32:08):
faith and always keep your head up and push forward.
It has not been an easy road for organized labor
and people like Mary Kay and Representative Machine Aldridge have
had to fight and remain resilient, but that resilience has
been paying off. I'm so grateful that Mary Kay, Henry
of s E I, you, Representative Machine Aldridge from Missouri,
(32:29):
and their organizations and followers have kept the faith. We
have such tremendous potential over the next decade and beyond,
but only with their kind of leadership. And to any
of you on the front lines who aren't being paid
or treated with equity or fairness, who aren't receiving the
benefits that you deserve, thank you, Thank you for listening,
and thank you for keeping the faith. We will be
fighting with you. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
(32:55):
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. M HM
Hi, I'm Pete Buttah Judge, and this is the deciding decade.
As a new president prepares to take office in the
country continues to reel from the effects of the pandemic.
Income inequality and workers rights remain a central issue in
our country. Americans are clearly seeking a better deal for workers.
(00:26):
Polls and referendum results show strong support for measures like
a higher minimum wage. Yet traditional organized labor has seen
its membership shrink, and even union members don't always vote
for pro labor political candidates. I think it's a vital
time to assess the future of labor for the decade
ahead and to recognize the extraordinary organizing work going on
(00:47):
on the ground. I'm very much looking forward to this
conversation with two of the most active and dynamics figures
in the labor movement today, Mary Kay Henry and Representative
Rachine Aldridge. For a decade now, Mary Kay Henry has
been the president of sei You Service Employees International Union,
an organization made up of two million members across key industries.
(01:08):
Under her leadership, SEIU has broken new ground, helping to
organize workers in new ways and reaching out to kinds
of workers who have lacked representation in the past. This
is just part of why she was recently named one
of times most influential people, and we are grateful to
have her today. We also have Representative Rashin Aldridge, recently
re elected as a state representative in Missouri's seventy eight district.
(01:32):
In two thousands sixteen, he was elected as committeeman of St.
Louis's fifth ward at age twenty two, becoming the youngest
elected city official in the city's history. A leading activist
in the Fight for Fifteen and Black Lives Matter movements,
he has chaired organizations including Young Activist United St. Louis
and Missouri Jobs with Justice, and serves on the Ferguson Commission,
(01:53):
created after the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri
in two thousand fourteen. He is a walking example of
Next January leadership on issues that will impact all of
us in the decade and error to come. Welcome Rachine
and Mary Kay. Thanks so much for taking time to
speak with us. Good to be with you, Glad to
be here, thanks for having me. So it's an exciting time.
I think we should just begin by asking where were
(02:14):
you when you got the news that our president elect
had been officially called, and what was the first thing
that went through your mind? I was getting my marching
boots on and was headed downtown San Francisco to a
rally to protect the results and count it reballot. And
so I threw open my window and started shouting and
banging pots along with all of my neighbors. And then
(02:37):
I went down to Harry Bridges Plaza and danced with
a lot of home care workers and nursing home workers
and fast food Fight for fifteen leaders to celebrate a
huge step forward for our country. How nice to be
taken to their streets rejoicing, and not just how about you?
I mean I think like most people, I was glued
(02:59):
to the television, uh for the last couple of days,
just was trying to figure out what had happened. So
when the uh you know, it came down that President
elect Joe Biden was going to be the next president,
I was right in front of TV. I've seen it
happen when we all yelled. I live in a like
nice little compound. I called my friends two point out house, um.
And then after that I took the Facebook and I
(03:19):
was asked a couple of people how about we take
to our streets just outside our own community, block it
off and have a black party in which we did.
It was just a moment to celebrate, and take this
moment in victory to celebrate and know that the work
is continuing. But you gotta take those little small moments
to say, look, we did it together. One of the
things I kept thinking about was the fact that there
(03:40):
was such sweeping support for things like a fifteen dollar
minimum wage and a right to representation, and yet all
too often we still see political figures who are really
against that kind of growth still succeeding. Florida was very
striking a victory for the movement. I think something like
six voting for that referendum for the fifteen dollar minimum wage,
(04:06):
and yet that was also a state that went read
on the electoral map. I wonder, representative, you're you're in
a red state, although, as I like to say, here
in Indiana, no such thing as they permanently read state.
How do you think these issues play out and how
do we kind of square the circle between the widespread
public support for things like higher wages and the ability
(04:27):
of anti labor politicians to prevail even in states that
want to see these things change. Yeah, back in two thousand, UM,
this was a message of the five or fifteen fifteen
in a union that at at first a lot of
folks was unaware of. But I think as as it
continued to echo from New York City to Chicago to St. Louis,
(04:48):
Um to Indiana, to South Carolina and so many other states,
we started to understand that this message of a higher
wage isn't anything honestly radical at all. You're talking about
providing people the ability to live and work one job
and be able to provide for their family, be able
to provide for their future, and be able to have
a union, a group that's gonna be able to protect
(05:09):
you in this workplace. And what we've seen over these
last couple of years is while many elected officials haven't
quickly got on board, they have been getting on board. Um.
The message of a liberal wage and the opportunity to
thrive is only growing. And you're seeing it now grow
from workers that are organizing in it, um moving from
in the workplace to move into running for office. I'm
(05:30):
not the only worker that's actually elected, it's it's a
couple of faster workers in South Carolina California and also
Illinois that recently just got elected this past election, and
that energy is only growing. The message of justice and
freedom for all is I think a message that even
politicians can't stop. Barrick Henry, how does that track with
what you're seeing in in the national conversations that we're having,
(05:52):
and can we build on the support that's been expressed
on these referendum matters to make sure that we're all
so pressuring both parties to do the right thing, but
also electing leaders who have made it a key part
of their platform that they're going to raise wages and
make workers better all. I think the Florida vote gives
us huge momentum at the national level to make fifteen
(06:15):
dollars minimum wage for everybody in this nation and to
connect that to why workers have to have the right
to join a union. And that's why we're so excited
about Biden's caregiving economy plan as part of his build
Back Better because black and brown voters showed up in
record numbers to deliver a record setting vote for Biden Harris,
(06:38):
and they could reinvest in those same voters by making
jobs that black and brown women have done for over
a century that's been excluded from minimum wage, excluded from
the right to join a union. We could make that
possible with bold federal action. I agree with you, Pete
that there's huge momentum for people to understand and that
(07:00):
racial and economic inequality hold the nation back from everybody
being able to thrive in the way that Representative Aldridge
just taught us, and being able to act on that
as a first order of business, I think is going
to be critical for voters understanding that government can work
to make a material change in their lives. Immediately, you
(07:25):
describe the multiracial character of this coalition, which is so important.
How have you an s c I you been intentional
about the interaction of racial and economic justice and what
might that teach us about what has to happen next
in terms of governing as well as the future of
our politics. Well, we back movement leaders like Rashine Aldridge,
(07:46):
who started out as a fast food worker and he
can tell the story, it's a great one and is
now representing his district in the Missouri State Legislature, which
is an example to me of how we are trying
to back black and brown service and care workers who
have been structured out of the economy because of racism
(08:08):
and because of corporate power. And we're not going to
let those two things keep us from making sure that
the sixty four million people that earn less than fifteen
dollars get a path to fifteen and the right to
join a union, so those fifteen dollar in our jobs
can become good union jobs that are the foundation of
the most racially diverse middle class this nation has ever seen.
(08:31):
You know that that point about how these jobs become
good jobs. I think it's a really powerful one too,
because I live in South Bend, the city that really
grew up around manufacturing, and like many communities, you know,
UH is so fiercely protective of manufacturing jobs because they
are good jobs in terms of the pay, the benefits.
One thing I think we often forget is they didn't
(08:53):
used to be good jobs. You know, these were considered
some of the most dangerous, underpaid, undesirable jobs in America
a hundred years ago, and organized labor saw to it
these these were not just any jobs, but jobs that
could become the backbone of middle class. And as we
see now, things like the service sector growing, and think
(09:14):
also about the racial diversity of the workers who hold
those jobs. If every service job had the same kind
of aura of completeness around it that so many manufacturing
jobs have had, it's amazing to think what that could fuel.
I also love your pointing out that Representative all dries
story is a great example of the success of this movement.
So let's turn to your representative to share that story.
(09:35):
From a fast food worker to office in the state
capital of Missouri. Tell us about that journey and how
your experience of empowerment might be something that others can
learn from. Absolutely, Pete, when I say the Fight for
fifteen movement, I don't. I don't just say it to
say it. Who really wasn't for the Fight for fifteen
campaign and the way that this union has been able
(09:58):
to empower individuals me, I don't. I don't come from
a union background. I grew up in the neighborhood very
high poverty um. The medium income in my zip code
was fifteen thousand. You know, I didn't know anything about organizing.
And one day I was at Jimmy John's and someone
came in and they started questioning me and asked me about,
you know, how much the sandwich was on the menu,
(10:20):
and how much that sandwich was actually more than I
was making as an employee that've been there for two years,
and asked me questions of you know, what do I
spend my money on? Because I think what people don't understand,
a lot of individuals in these fast food industries, um,
aren't young people like myself. And even when they are young,
and the times we're in now, we're not going to
spend these funds out at the mall. You know, we're
(10:41):
helping our mom, we're helping our family, make sure we
got a central stuff like tarlet paper, milk, eggs, and
a lot of folks in these low wage jobs or
women who have families of two and three. So this
movement for me, I was very timid and shy, uh
until I met a couple of organizers and they really
howard workers like myself to know that, you know, when
(11:02):
we come together collectively. Um, even though a manager made
me hold a sign that said I made three wrongs
sandwiches and took a picture. A couple of months later,
you know, me and my co workers came together collectively
went out on strike among along with many other workers
in the city of St. Louis. That manager, the next
day was actually gone. But that show to somebody like
(11:23):
me who never say knew what a union wasn't organizing,
was that when we come together collectively, that we really
can make a change. And we've seen it here in
the state of Missouri. Even when they bought back against us,
we pushed back and we still had a minimum wage
increase in St. Louis and that was due to the
skills and the opportunity that the union. And I think
(11:43):
that's what is so important to make sure that we,
you know, don't miss that union element. You know, the
wages is important, but if we can't miss the importance
of having a group of individuals, which are the workers,
which are me and my co workers, come together collectively
saying we love our jobs, but it can be better.
Even though we don't have a union with the five
or fifteen, we act as if we are union because
(12:05):
we know it's coming soon. And that is something that
would never erase my mind as I continue to go
over and oder and oder uh in my career, how
strong it is to have a union and when we
come together collectively we can move mountains. We've seen it, uh,
when back in two thousand sixteen, when Hillary Clinton, Secretary
(12:26):
Clinton and Senator Bernie Sanders said fifteen an hour, it
was like what you know? And now we have President
a leg Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris saying
that in the first hundred days they want to raise
the wages and give people a union. That is what
it's about. So I'm sure you've heard some people talking
(13:00):
about politics and the Democratic Party saying, you know, racial
justice is important, but we really need to focus on
kitchen table issues. You are a leader in the labor movement,
you're a leader in the movement for black lives. This
is clearly not a contradiction for you. What do you
say to people who seem to think that we have
to choose either or We can't say black lives matter
(13:24):
without forgetting that a lot of those black lives and
workers work in these low age facilities. We can't talk
about racial injustice without economic injustice because they go hand
in hand and most communities of color, majority of jobs
you see are McDonald's Wendy's. But you can't have one
(13:44):
conversation without the other. It is important that our party,
as a Democratic member, you know, take the time and
even with sci you take the time to have tough
conversations and be able to let those leaders uh stand
up and speak out and figure out how do we
all move forward together. Because you can't talk about climate
change without talking about racial injustice. You can't talk about
(14:06):
health care and justice. I'll talk about racial injustice. We
look at this pandemic. You know, most individuals that have
been affected due to the Corona haven't been getting services
to Those communities have been communities of color. So conversational
race should be driven in all the different conversations we have,
because that is a tough conversation I have. But once
we get past that hurdle and understand, you know what
(14:28):
these communities are saying. That's been decades, nothing has really
changed from the civil rights era Martin Luther King time
to the Ferguson movement that we've seen a couple of
years ago. But we have to continue to have both
those conversations because when you Stacy Abrams, shout out to
Stacey Abrams, it is black women that is leading the charge,
even in our own party. So we cannot neglect the
(14:50):
fact that this is the issue. But we have to
move forward together on it. Absolutely, Mary Kay, I want
to pick up on one thing the representative mentioned that
I think is is really interesting and important. The goal
is to make sure everyone has access to a union,
but you're not waiting for people to be in a
union to be organizing and empowering them. So can you
talk a little bit about what I think are often
called the not yet organized at your events, and how
(15:13):
you've found ways to serve people who aren't in a
position to officially be represented and yet can be empowered
through that, and and how that strategically is going to
continue to be important in the future. Yeah, Rashin gave
his example, and think of like thousands of machines who
understand through the example that he described about at first,
(15:38):
he doesn't know what a union is. His manager is
incredibly disrespectful to him and some co workers. That ignites
his desire to make a change. He takes action through
his coworkers and strikes, which is an act of a union.
You know, then there's a change based on the collective action.
(16:00):
And it's thanks to the courageous leadership of people like
Rashine and the Fight for fifteen that has brought hope
to home care workers, to nursing home workers, to airport
workers to Amazon workers, believing that hey, if we act together,
we can make a change. What we need now is
to get our government to stand with the fearlessness and
(16:23):
courage of these workers and unrigged the rules that exclude
people from the right to join a union. There's forty
six percent of the American workforce has no legal right
to join a union. And that's what the government has
the power to change. In addition to McDonald's, Wendy's and
Burger King, not waiting for legislative change but deciding to
(16:45):
set a national bargaining table for four million fast food
workers and making those jobs a foundation of the next
middle class. Just like auto jobs did for steel and
rubber and all the other parts of the manufacturing sector
in the last century. We need to make that happen
now for the service sector that's so powerful and uh,
(17:05):
of course that that disproportionately likely to be black and
brown and women right because of the way that labor law,
often intentionally, as part of the political compromises of almost
a century ago, excluded black and brown workers and women
from some of those protections that we think of is
why the New Deal was was so effective and empowering.
(17:28):
We'll take us into the kind of short to medium
term future on what's going to mean to deliver these rules,
especially if we're facing divided government. You know we're going
to be working very hard at least uh. I know
everybody in my party will be to to take the
Senate and have a more labor friendly Senate majority, but
we don't know if that's going to happen. So the
things you're talking about, how much of that can be
(17:50):
achieved through things like rulemaking, through executive action or administrative work,
and how much of this is fundamentally a question about legislation.
I think there's lots we can do on rulemaking, but
I have to say our expectation is we're gonna win
the Georgia runoffs both seats, and we need to exercise
the will of the majority, even if it's by one
(18:13):
vote in the Senate. Let's make bold, transformative change. Because
people showed up in record numbers black and brown voters,
save this democracy, save this economy, and we need to
invest in them and their communities and their jobs on
a scale that is equivalent to the depth of the
(18:34):
crisis that people are experiencing. Based on the pandemic. Too
many black and brown families are grieving too many losses
because of the inaction of the federal government. Too many
black and brown families have most of their extended family
out of work because this is a recession and depression
that has hit the service sector, and God knows, too
(18:54):
many black and brown families have suffered the trauma of
violence in their communities and that needs to end. We
need to make those communities as safe as white communities
in this country. And the climate crisis impacts us all,
and so we really don't want to lower expectations to
only changing the rules based on executive action. That of course,
(19:16):
is part of our arsenal. But we have the expectation
that even with a one vote majority, the will of
the people here is overwhelming that we wanted to see change,
and we expect that as fifteen dollars and a right
to join a union for millions more workers, I representative.
As you're navigating those halls of power where you've earned
(19:39):
a place, how are you being received And how do
you think being young has shaped you, know, good or
bad or indifferent? How do you think it's it's shaped
your ability to make change? A lot of people tell
me I'm a little wiser beyond my time, but I
still could be uh twenty six, And you know, don't
rush it. Uh. You know, one thing about it is
regardless of being elected official. I think what you're seeing
(20:00):
a lot of people like I mentioned some fast fo
workers and low wage workers that recently was just elected
into office this past election day, is those individuals aren't
looking to get elected for a title. At the same time,
as I'm a politician, I'm still an activist that would
be out in the streets with individuals when it's needed
the most and as I navigate, especially in a state
(20:23):
like Missouri that's difficult at times. We were lying a
lot on the local level um to do a lot
of the pushing up on these policies and progressive agenda
that moves us forward. You know, I'm here to really
be able to help push those conversations, even though there's
folks on the opposite end. Shouldn't be us versus them.
(20:43):
So this is a moment for all of us, and
that's how I look at it. Even though I'm a Democrat,
I call myself more of an issuecrat because it's the
issues that even I learned with the Fight for fifteen
when elected officials were saying no the issues that was
driving people to be excited was what got folks out
and organized and got people ready to do whatever it
(21:04):
took to get these policies done. So I kind of
look at it into phases, you know, educating and building
relationships across that and really relying on our local levels
that are doing phenomenal job and our municipalities pushing policy
that ultimately go up to the state level. It's a
great point. I think we have often underestimated local government,
(21:25):
local politics, and especially local media as a way to
make sure that we make progress. Uh. Markay, how do
you view the kind of stacking of these different areas
where we can apply pressure get results, the local where
you know you can have immediate impact and where often
the party politics fall away a little bit, the state
(21:46):
where Representative Aldridge and so many like him are, where
so much power rests in our system. Uh. And then
the federal level. Of course that that is a different
landscape with the different president, but it's not the entire ballgame.
How how do you think about, even just as a
leader individually, how to organize your attention as well? As
the organization and the movement that that you leave, well,
(22:07):
I think the best lesson on what you've asked is
the fifteen movement. You know, we made a breakthrough when
the voters of a fifty four thousand person city in
se Tech, Washington authorized the fifteen dollar minimum wage against
national opposition. I think the campaign that was run against
(22:28):
that was like eight million dollars. The chamber got in
the manufacturers association and the voters said yes, and we
registered I think a thousand new eatrian Um part of
that community in order to take that initiative over the top.
They then marched to Seattle and the Seattle mayor's race
(22:48):
was contested over how are we dealing with inequality in Seattle?
In the fifteen dollar minimum wage became a way for
the candidates to differentiate themselves, and then they asked the
first minimum wage citywide in a major city. And then
it's spread across the country, so that now twenty nine
million people are on the path to fifteen dollars. We
(23:11):
just added three million more in Florida and the House
of Representatives passed it in eighteen. So I think of
the stack as exactly what Representative Aldridge just taught us
that the innovation often comes from cities like yours, Mayor
and South Bend and then gets catalyzed out and then
(23:34):
pushed up, especially on ideas that people dismiss, you know,
like fifteen was laughed at in twelve when it was demanded,
and it's now a mainstream debate where more and more
people are crossing over and understanding we have to intervene
on the worst racial and economic inequality of our generation.
(23:57):
And this is a key lever that disproportionately lift up
black and brown families because too many black and brown
families have been structured into minimum wage jobs because of
housing and education and all these other systems. Sei you,
(24:30):
certainly in the decade that you've been leading and for
some time has a wonderful reputation as one of the
most innovative labor organizations in the country, can you talk
about how you build that atmosphere of innovation and also
given some of the stereotypes that a previous generation might
have had about organized labor, Uh, you know, what lessons
does your organizing success maybe carry for shaping how labor
(24:55):
is perceived and how your fellow organizations and counter parts
might approach the decade ahead. You know, I've been blessed
in this work to walk beside nursing home workers in
when I first started organizing, who taught me that every
day of their lives are an innovation. They have to
(25:17):
be so creative in order to rob Peter, to pay Paul,
and make ends meet and raised children in this economy
that I think part of the innovation in our union
is fueled by the workers that make up our union.
They are living in terrible economic and racial circumstances that
(25:38):
require collective action in every aspect of their lives. And
so you know, we are born of immigrant workers in
Chicago who were told they were nothing more than servants,
and they stayed at it for ten years in order
to finally win a charter from the a f L
and get the building owners to recognize them as workers
(26:00):
and to actually be paid wages um. And so it's
hardwired into the DNA of our union to understand that
we have to raise wages for workers that have been
locked out of the economy. We cannot stand with the
movement for Black Lives and not fight for living wages
(26:20):
for black and brown people that will make a difference
for all workers. And our union's job is to talk
to workers, white, black, brown, Asian about why we have
to link those fights because we won't win better jobs
and more unions for working people unless we uproot systemic racism.
(26:41):
And that is not a natural idea to our working people.
But when we are in relationship with each other, as
Rashein said in Movements, and we learn about each other's lives,
it becomes a totally natural fight. How much of this
do you think is a generational question? Uh? Do you
(27:01):
think that folks your age and younger view the relationships
between racial and economic issues differently than the previous generation?
Or do you think it's it's really just one continuum
and each generation is kind of standing on the on
the work of the one that came before. I would say,
I think it's more of a continuation. Uh, you know,
we are standing on great shoulders of individuals. Just in
(27:23):
the city of St. Louis to highlight Percy Green, who
climbed the arch of Mama Jamala Rodgers and Percy was
actually one of the first activists that came and talked
to us as fast workers back in two thousand thirteen
and a church basement as we was about to you know,
get ready to go out on strike. It is those uh,
you know mentors that are only given knowledge to uh,
(27:45):
the younger generation. I think as each generation come along,
you know, there's different ways that those generations expressed themselves.
And I've been told as a young person and sometimes
you guys doesn't need to slow down and you know,
listen and let it play out. And I'm sure my
elders were told that when they were younger too, But
it's a continuation of the message hasn't changed. I think
(28:07):
we just figure out how to continue to change the
strategy because every time we make two or three steps forward,
opposition likes to push you back. And you gotta get creative.
You gotta do things differently, like the Fight for Fifteen movement,
you know, taking the risk to um bring in folks
that you know technically aren't member due paying dues, but
we kind of created our own member dudes amongst ourselves,
(28:29):
you know, taking that risk to say that you have
a bunch of these individuals that haven't been empowered in
a way that they don't know that they have their
own empowerment, but they just need a push. They doesn't
need a little bit of help, and it's not a
generational gap, which we do have those in certain areas,
but I think it's more of just a continuation of
(28:52):
the movement growing and shifting and changing as the world
also shifts and change. I wanted to ask each of
you a question that looks to the few. Sure you know,
this podcast is largely about the idea that the decade
we're entering into right now the Ties is going to
be decisive for American life really across this century. So
(29:13):
knowing how many lines of effort do you have underway,
how many elements of the agenda and the movement are
are perhaps about to have a breakthrough if you're looking
back from the perspective of what would you want to
say we got done in the Ties and what's the
work you think would still be waiting for us next.
I want all the sixty four million workers who are
(29:36):
living and working in poverty in this country that are
overwhelmingly black and brown women and men, to have a
decent job that they can raise a family on and
expect their kids are going to do better that they've done.
That We're gonna end working poverty in America and allow
for a minimum wage that people can actually thrive and
(30:00):
the right to form a union so we can create
the most multi racial, inclusive middle classes nation has ever seen.
You know, the idea that we could deliver that not
just in our lifetime, but across this decade is so
powerful because it really is true, it could happen if
we get this right. Representative Aldridge, same question to you,
but I'll ask it in a slightly different way. Imagine
(30:21):
a new, freshly minted young legislator shows up in the
state capital and Missouri in his early twenties, and you're
on the cusp of retirement from whatever great things you
go on to do, and you're showing this young whipper
snapper around and uh and telling them what what they
can expect in in the future based on what you
(30:44):
were able to see delivered in your time. What would
you want to be able to say to them we
did this. I would say to them, one always believe
in themselves, hope and changes is possible. There's going to
be so many roadblocks that ahead of us, and we've
made a lot of change in the process. Hopefully I'll
be able to look back and say, you know, we
(31:06):
have a place where people can love whoever they want
to love. Individuals can walk down the street and not
be a raz due to the color of their skin.
You know, workers will finally be able to work one
job forty hours a week and put away for their future.
Everyone will be able to have the type of healthcare
that they want in their life. Those are the issues
(31:27):
that I hope I'll be able to tell that young legislator.
But I also want to let them know to not
ever give up on hope and not to ever quit
believing that change is not possible. I know it gets tough,
especially when we're juggling so many things in the world
that we do or in our lives, but not to
give up because when we do come together and when
(31:47):
we do organize collectively and do when we fight, we
we gotta not act like we don't have to fight.
We definitely have to fight, but that the victory will
be at the end of the tunnel um and that
they are young legislator can make any change possible that
they want to see if it's with themselves, are collectively
with others that to remember to have their hope and
(32:08):
faith and always keep your head up and push forward.
It has not been an easy road for organized labor
and people like Mary Kay and Representative Machine Aldridge have
had to fight and remain resilient, but that resilience has
been paying off. I'm so grateful that Mary Kay, Henry
of s E I, you, Representative Machine Aldridge from Missouri,
(32:29):
and their organizations and followers have kept the faith. We
have such tremendous potential over the next decade and beyond,
but only with their kind of leadership. And to any
of you on the front lines who aren't being paid
or treated with equity or fairness, who aren't receiving the
benefits that you deserve, thank you, Thank you for listening,
and thank you for keeping the faith. We will be
fighting with you. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
(32:55):
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. M HM
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