Rumpelstiltskin

Greed can lead to a bitter end.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
School of Humans.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Miranda Hawkins. Welcome to the Deep dark Woods. Today's
story is Atu five hundred, the name of the Helper
or Rumpelstiltskin.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Once upon a time there was a miller who was poor,
but who had a beautiful daughter. Now it happened that
he got into a conversation with the king, and to
make an impression on him, he said, I have a
daughter who can spin straw into gold. The king said
to the miller, that is an.

Speaker 4 (00:54):
Art I really like.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
If your daughter is as skillful as you say, then
bring her to my castle tomorrow and I will put
her to the test. When the girl was brought to him,
he led her into a room that was entirely filled
with straw, giving her a spinning wheel and reel, he said,
get to work now, spin all night, and if by
morning you have not spun this straw into gold, then

(01:17):
you will have to die. Then he himself locked the room,
and she was there all alone. The poor miller's daughter
sat there and for her life she did not know
what to do. She had no idea how to spin
straw into gold. She became more and more afraid and
finally began to cry. Then Suddenly the door opened, a

(01:41):
little man stepped inside and said, good evening, mistress Miller.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
Why are you crying so oh? Answered the girl.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
I am supposed to spin straw into gold, and I
don't know how to do it. The little man said,
what will you give me if I spin it for you?
My necklace, said the girl. The little man took the necklace,
sat down before the spinning wheel, and whir whre whre
three times pulled, and the spool was full. Then he

(02:12):
put another one on and whre whre whre three times pulled,
and the second one was full as well. So it
went until morning, and then all the straw was spun,
and all the spools were filled with gold. At sunrise,
the king came and when he saw the gold, he

(02:33):
was surprised and happy, but his heart became even more
greedy for gold. He had the miller's daughter taken to
another room filled with straw. It was even larger, and
he ordered her to spin it in one night if
she valued her life. The girl did not know what
to do, and she cried once again. The door opened

(02:53):
and the little man appeared. He said, what will you
give me if I spin the straw into gold for
you the ring from my finger, answered the girl. The
little man took the ring and began once again to
whir with the spinning wheel. By morning he had spun
all the straw into glistening gold. The king was happy

(03:14):
beyond measure when he saw it, but he still did
not have his fill of gold. He had the miller's
daughter taken to a still larger room filled with straw,
and said to night you must spin this too. If
you succeed, you shall become my wife. He thought, even
if she is only a miller's daughter, I will not
find a richer wife in all the world. When the

(03:37):
girl was alone, the little man returned for a third time.
He said, what will you give me if I spin
the straw?

Speaker 4 (03:45):
This time? I have nothing more.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
That I could give you, answered the girl. Then promise
me after you are a queen your first child. Who
knows what will happen, thought the miller's daughter, and, not
knowing what else to do, she promised the little man
what he demanded. In return, the little man once again
spun the straw into gold. When in the morning the

(04:10):
king came and found everything just as he desired. He
married her, and the beautiful Miller's daughter became queen. A
year later, she brought a beautiful child into the world.
She thought no more about the little Man, but suddenly
he appeared in her room and said, now give me
that which you have promised. The queen took fright and

(04:31):
offered the little man all the wealth of the kingdom
if he would let her keep the child. But the
little man said no, something living is dearer to me
than all the treasures of the world. Then the queen
began lamenting and crying so much that the little man
took pity on her and said.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
I will give you three days time. If by then
you know my name, then you shall keep your child.
The queen spent an entire night thinking of all the
names she had ever heard. Then she sent a messenger
into the country to inquire far and wide what other
names there were.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
When the little man.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Returned the next day, she began with Casper Melcher Bowser
and said, in order all the names she knew. After
each one, the little man said, that's not my name.
The second day she sent inquiries into the neighborhood as
to what names people had. She recited the most unusual

(05:28):
and most curious names to the little man, is your
name perhaps beast rib or mutton, calf or leg string,
But he always answered, that's not my name. On the
third day, the messenger returned and said, I have not
been able to find a single new name. But when
I was approaching a high mountain in the corner of

(05:50):
the woods there where the fox and the hare sa
good night, I saw a little house. A fire was
burning in front of the house, and an altogether comical
little man was jumping around the fire, hopping on one
leg and calling out, Today, I'll bake, Tomorrow, I'll brew,
then I'll fetch the queen's newte child. It's good that
no one knows rumpel Stiltskin is my name. You can

(06:13):
imagine how happy the queen was when she heard that name.
Soon afterwards, the little man came in and asked, now,
Madam Queen, what is my name? She first asked, is
your name kunts No?

Speaker 4 (06:28):
Is your name?

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Heinz no?

Speaker 4 (06:32):
Is your name?

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Perhaps rumpel Stiltskin. The devil told you that.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
The devil told you that, shouted the little.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Man, and with anger he stomped his right foot so
hard into the ground that he fell in up to
his waist. Then with both hands he took hold of
his left foot and ripped himself up the middle.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Into rumpel Stiltskin was never one of my favorite stories.
It never stood out to me in the way other
tales did. But although it is popular, and the brother's
grim version perhaps the most popular, it's a tale that

(07:16):
has far reaching roots. Similar to Cinderella, the origins of
Rumpelstiltskin dates back thousands of years. The tale we know
itself doesn't, but making a deal with a supernatural creature
for a return does. This pattern for a story has
been dated back between twenty five hundred to six thousand years.

(07:39):
It wasn't until later that the Rumpelstiltskin We're familiar with
was written. Joann Fischhart was a German satirist and publicist
whose book Gargantua was published sometime in the fifteen seventies.
The book is an adaptation of frenchmen Francois Rabelais The

(08:02):
Life of Gargantua and of pantic Roll. This was a
series of five books published between fifteen thirty two and
fifteen sixty four.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
The book is a satirical and.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Humorous take on religion through the Adventures of two Giants,
a father and a son.

Speaker 4 (08:18):
Although the books were banned.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
During Rabelais's time, they were still read all across Europe.
In fact, these two giants are some of the most
famous giants in European literature. But that crudeness and violence
found in the original tales were in a way the
foundation for rumpel Stilskin, because they were the elements that fish.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
Art really liked.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
In Fishart's adaptation, rumpel Stilskin shows up as a three
hundred and sixty third amusement. Basically that means he had
a list of games in his book, and this was
a three hundred and sixty third one listed. There's this
old children's game rempel Stilt oder dare Popart, which Fischhart

(09:02):
Rumpelstilskin is thought to be derived from. In German, rumpel
Stiltskin is translated as little rattle stilt. The stilt refers
to a pole or post which is used for support,
like the support to use for building a fence, stilt
or stults, if you're taking their archaic German word also

(09:23):
means lame or with a limp, and the first half
rumpel stilt refers to a type of goblin. That goblin
was also called Poupard or pope art, hint the origins
of Rumpel's name. The game was played with one child
being the goblin and banging on pots or pans or
planks to make noise and chase the other children. Think

(09:47):
of it like a game of tag, just a lot
louder in with no tagging, and to this day the
game is still played in some parts of Germany. By
the time the Grams got around to Rumpelstiltskin, it was
a well known story throughout Europe. Although the brother are
said to have collected stories from the everyday folk, we

(10:08):
know that most of the stories they collected were from
other scholars and people from upper classes.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
We also know that.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
The brothers did a lot of editing the tales published,
and their collections were not the original stories that were
told on the street or had been passed down with Rumpell.
The brothers actually took four different versions of the story
and stitched them into the well known tale we now know. However,
the first version they published was more tame than the

(10:37):
final version. The eighteen twelve version ends with Rumpel running
away angrily and never coming back, but this tale actually
became more dark and evolved into the ending you just heard,
which is where he tears himself into Although Rumpel dies
gruesomely in the Grim's final telling, that's not always how
the story ends. When I first set out on digging

(11:11):
into Rumple, I felt like this was one of those
tales that was falling by the wayside. I didn't feel
like it held as much importance or wasn't as relevant
as stories like Cinderella and The Frog Prince. To my knowledge,
Disney hasn't done its own spin on the fairy tale.
But as with almost everything, the more I researched, the

(11:31):
more I proved myself wrong. I also realized I was
surrounded with adaptations of Rumpel, but they weren't necessarily as obvious.
First off, so many countries have a Rumpel tail. While
stories like Cinderella have what I call the main three,
the Zilee, Pirot, and the brothers Grim, Rumpel has roots

(11:51):
all over the world, Arabic, Russian, and even South American
that falls under the tail Type five hundred A mischievous
or evil helper that is defeated by a hero or
heroine in the end. There's a Scottish version that was
collected by Robert Chambers and published in eighteen fifty eight.

(12:13):
In this story, a woman's husband heads to the market
with all their money and never comes back. She's left
with their baby and prize pig. The pig was pregnant,
so the woman felt that everything would be okay because
she believed a strong litter of piglets would see her
and her son throw. But soon after she realized the

(12:34):
mother pig wasn't doing so hot. The pig laid on
her side in the pig pen, wheezing, and it seemed
she would die soon. At that point, the woman lost
all hope and sat down crying. All of a sudden,
a small woman came down the road and told the
mother she knew all about our troubles and could save

(12:55):
the pig. But the small woman asked what would be
given in payment. The mother did not have time to
respond before the small woman pulled out a small vial
of liquid, rubbed some on the pig, who was then
immediately healed. The woman then said she wanted the mother's
child as payment. The mother cried out in despair. The

(13:16):
small woman revealed she was a fairy and said she'd
be back in three days to take the child.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Having to wait due to fairy.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Law, she told the mother the only way she could
save her son was if she could guess the fairy's name,
and three tries, the fairy then left. The woman wandered
the woods to help herself think. On the second day,
she heard a song and followed it and found the
fairy spinning and singing to herself, And in that song,

(13:46):
the fay said her name. The next day, when the
fairy showed up to take the baby, the mother guessed
her name was Whoopedie's story. The fairy was so mad
she turned red and stumped off, never to be seen again.
Then there's an Icelandic tail about a farmer who married

(14:06):
a young and beautiful woman, but his new wife was
lazy and never wanted to work for the winter. He
gave her wool and asked her to spin it so
they could make cloth, but she did not, no matter
how much she complained at her. One day, a large
woman came by asking for a favor. The farmer's wife

(14:26):
asked if the woman could do some work in return.
She asked the large woman to spin the wool to
be used to make cloth. The large woman agreed and
spun all of the wool and payment. She told the
farmer's bride that she would have to guess her name.
A deal was made, and the large woman said she'd
return the first day of summer. The farmer's wife became

(14:49):
more irate during the winter and spring months as she
couldn't figure out the large woman's name. When she told
her husband, he responded she had done a bad thing
because that woman was a troll and was going to
take her away. A while later, the farmer was taking
a walk and came upon a large mound of rock.
He heard a sound and followed it to a hole

(15:10):
in the rock, where he saw the troll spinning and singing,
and in that song she said her name. The man
went back home, wrote the name down and gave.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
It to his wife, telling her this was the troll's name.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
When the troll came the first day of summer, the
farmer's wife said the name on the third try, and
the troll was so angry she ran off, never to
be seen again. The farmer's wife was so relieved she
became an industrious person that happily spun wool if you

(15:47):
Notice and Rumbel Stilskin and these other Helper stories, the
helper is portrayed as the villain. The character is used
as a device to show the shortcomings of those around them.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
But let's fast.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Forward to newer takes on the old Helper story. Rumbel
has been tucked into some of my favorite childhood cartoons
without me realizing it. I was rewatching Courage the Cowardly
Dog the other day because I still do watch cartoons.
One episode is a new creepy take on the story.
Courage of the Cowardly Dog is a Cartoon Network show,

(16:22):
so while it's four kids, it's for adults as well,
And the whole show is about a dog who's terrified
of everything but protects his owners, Muriel and Eustas against
creepy events that happen in the middle of nowhere. That's
the town they live in, and sure enough, the title
of the episode is called Rumpled Stiltskin. Notice they add

(16:45):
the ed in there, so it's rump Bold instead of
rump bull in it, the bad tempered Scottish Storf tricks
Muriel in Courage to make five thousand tartan kilts for
his outlet stores. If they don't complete the task, he'll
make them into shepherd's pie unless they discover his name.
Courage escapes goes through a series of tasks to learn

(17:08):
Rumpold's name before passing the knowledge to Muriel.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
When Muriel reveals to.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Rumpold she knows his name, the Scottish dwarf bursts into tears.
Turns out he hates his name. Muriel says he should
change it to Rumpelstilskin without the ed, and he likes
it so much that he changes it and the two
become business partners. It's a happy ending for all. Rumpel

(17:33):
or Rumpled isn't a bad guy in this story. It's
that he's unhappy, and the episode teaches that a little
kindness can lead to a quote happy ending. Also, there's
a change in the dynamic of power. It's not Rumpel
helping someone, but he's his own master. If this was

(17:54):
an older tale, it could be argued he portrays the
devil himself, who in the end is really not so bad.
The idea of looking at Rumpel as more than an
m or a creature or a person to make a
deal with continues in modern character arcs. In my opinion.
One of these strongest examples of this is in the

(18:16):
show Once Upon a Time. It was a fantasy drama
adventure that spanned seven seasons from twenty eleven to twenty eighteen.
In order to save a child from a curse, fair
tale characters are sent to modern day Storybrooke, Maine. The
show starts with a young boy showing up at bail

(18:38):
bondsman Emma Swan's place, claiming he's her son and she's
the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming. After dropping
the boy off in the town, Emma Swan starts to
think there might be something to the boy's story. As
the show progresses, more fairy tale characters enter and we
learn about them as well. Rumpelstilskin is shown as a

(19:02):
human covered in scales. He's portrayed as the most villainous
of all the bad guys, but also one of the
characters you'll feel the worse for. His story is complicated.
He's evil.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yes, he makes deals.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
For firstborns and in exchange the person gets what they want,
But then you learn it's because he lost his son,
Bill Fire, and his evil stems from a dagger with
dark magic that he began using to.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
Try and find his son.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
All he truly wants is the love of a family
of his son, but because of the dagger, he can't stop.
It's a tale of greed and cowardice and bravery and
change all rolled into one. It's seven seasons, so there's
not time to break down every moral and meaning a
hein Rumpled's character in Once but overall it shows that

(19:56):
there's more complexities than someone just being a bad guy.
It's us wanting to know why, taking the time to understand,
and it could even be argued what it means to
be human. The different aspects were presented and wrestle with
every day. The idea of exploring Rumpelstiltskin as a more

(20:17):
human character is also portrayed in the Gilded duology, published
in twenty twenty one. Gilded follows the story of Cirillda.
She's a poor miller's daughter who spends wild tales that
get her into trouble since everyone believes they are lies.
She ends up being swept away to this cursed castle
that is basically held under siege by the demon King.

(20:40):
It follows the original tale of she must spin straw
into gold or be killed, but instead of help coming
from a goblin or imp, it comes from a young
man who is part of the curse. As a story unfolds,
you learn that he is actually a cursed prince named
Guild who can't be released until he remembers his true name,
which is of course Rumpelstiltskin, and at the end, he

(21:04):
and Serrilda are married and.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Have a kid.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
This child is a child that she promised for his
third night of help, but since it is their kid,
she gave him her firstborn by birthing the child. While
Srilda is the main hero here, Guild is also a hero.
Although he is under duress. He helps Srilda fight demons
and uncover the mystery to who he is and to

(21:28):
break the curse on him and the subjects in his castle.
These newer adaptations tend to explore more of who Rumpelstiltskin
is and what he is searching for. They humanize a
character that was originally a fairy creature bent on causing
mischief at the expense of another. As we know from

(21:56):
this series, fairy tales come with lessons and morals, So
what is rumpel Stiltskin trying to teach us. Some people
think that Stillskin could have been about teaching women how
they should be supportive in their marriages. At first, this
idea seems more aligned to the Icelandic tale we heard earlier,
but spinning can be interpreted as a metaphor for all

(22:19):
household skills, and at the time, society's expectations of women
revolved around household skills and having kids. And then others
think it's a cautionary tale for children to behave or
for mothers to keep an eye on their kids. Although
I feel like this one lends itself to other helper
stories more so than the Grimm's version. One moral in

(22:41):
the Grimm's tale is greed and also a warning.

Speaker 4 (22:44):
To be honest.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
There's this idea that if the miller had been honest
with the king from the beginning, then the miller's daughter
would never have found herself in the position she was.
Notice the patriarchal view of putting the onus on the woman,
even though it's the miller who offered her up. I
talked to cultural studies professor Meredith jack Sipes about grims

(23:06):
Rumplestol Skin, and he brought the moral of the story
back to spinning, specifically, what spinning represented in the lives
of women and the Grimm's time.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
Women, specifically in the lower.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Class, spent a lot of time and effort making clothes
for their families.

Speaker 5 (23:23):
There were no great, huge machines in manufacturing companies that
made clothes. The closes people wore were made at home
by spinning, and so spinning was extremely important. But it
was also hard labor for young women. It's well known

(23:45):
that there were a lot of accidents with regard to spinning,
and it was hard work on their fingers, and so
this is a tale about the way women were forced
to make their own clothes or clothes for the family.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Spinning was arduous, back breaking labor. It could be painful,
and Zeips suggests that rumpel Stilskin could be a tale
about how women dreamed of a better life for themselves,
a life without this intense labor. After all, even though
it comes with the price and the story, it's rumpel

(24:21):
Stilskin who takes over the task of spinning.

Speaker 6 (24:25):
In the old days, in the sixteen, seventeenth, eighteenth centuries,
there used to be aughts where women would gather in
a community and jabber away and tell stories about how
women would like to free themselves of the treatment. So
it's all about the rise of a young woman, fortunately

(24:47):
through the service of this little man, and she succeeds
in saving herself.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Rumpel Stilskin is a story of triumph for a young woman.
She overcomes an impossible task set before her by people
with unreasonable expectations. She lifts herself up from poverty and
becomes the queen, and then she even overcomes Rumpel. But

(25:17):
that's just one take. Rumpelstilskin isn't being left behind. As
with all things, it's adapting. The new retellings are filling
in blanks, digging into the whys, and really questioning not
just who the real bad guy was, but how they
became that way. And they're also holding true to the

(25:38):
trope of rags to riches, of someone wanting a better life.
And hopefully when help is offered to turn those dreams
into a reality, it won't be by a mischievous helper.
Next time we'll hear from an author who turned Cinderella

(25:59):
into a cyborg.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
The Deep Dark.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Woods is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.
It was created, written and hosted by me Miranda Hawkins.
This episode was produced by Mike hal June was senior producer.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
Gabby Watts.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, Elsie Crowley, and
Maya Howard. Stories were voiced by Julia christ Gau. Theme
song was composed by Jesse Niswanger. This episode was sound
designed and mixed by Chris Childs. If you enjoyed the show,
please leave a review and you can follow along with

(26:38):
the show on Instagram at School of Humans.