September 15, 2023 • 18 mins
This is a bonus episode with Sean McEwen. Sean McEwen is the writer, director, and producer of the new film, American Outlaws. Based on the true story of The Dougherty Gang.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Sean McEwan, and I'm the writer, director
of one of the producers of the feature film American Outlaws,
which is coming out in select theaters on Friday, September fifteenth.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You can also see it from the comfort of your own.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Home on video on demand Apple, iTunes and Amazon, etc.
The Dockerty Gang is a feature film story based on
the true life events of three siblings, Ryan Doherty, Dylan Doherty,
and league raceed Docerty who back in a little over
a decade ago, they went on a cross country crime
spree where they were robbing banks, and each one of
(00:34):
them are currently serving an excessive amount of time thirty
plus years in three separate federal prisons. The reason I'm
here today is for a couple of reasons. One is
we do have a feature film is coming out selects on.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
The fifteenth of September Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Also, it will be available for home viewing in the
VOD video on demand space. You can go to Apple,
Amazon and check out the film. We think it's an
extraordinary film because it does fit that true crime space.
Based on a true story, I had the very good opportunity,
as people might recollect from the podcast of working and
getting to know directly the actual individuals that were involved
(01:10):
in the real true events, including Ryan, Lee Grace, and Dylan,
got very close with each of them, close with some
of their family members and some of the other.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Individuals that were involved in the story.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
What's interesting about talking today in particular is the fact
that there are some updates just to kind of see
where things have gone from the original events that we
portrayed in the earlier episodes of the podcast. You know,
there's a lot of time has passed, a lot of change,
a lot of growth, which I kind of find interesting
even from a psychological standpoint, a human interest standpoint. I'll
start with Lee Grace. Lee Grace has definitely acclimated, I think,
(01:42):
to the prison life, if you will. Each of the
siblings are currently still facing various charges, not all the
same charges, of various charges with some other states. Again,
even a decade later, this is still ongoing legal problems
and issues and complications that they did cross state lines
which created a federal dynamic here that they have to
deal with, so that still hangs over their head. As
(02:04):
I mentioned earlier, they're each serving terms that are roughly
between thirty and thirty five years a piece. So they
do have the opportunity to eventually pay their debt to
society and get out of prison. However, they will be
much more advanced in age obviously at that point.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So back to Lee.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Grace in particular, I think she's acclimated quite nicely to
the prison system. She's made a lot of friends, she
has some contacts and some penpals, shall we call them,
on the outside. I think that's kind of her lifeline.
I think a big part of the story and the
thing that interested all of us from the beginning is family.
She still is very connected to her brothers, as in
contact with them on a fairly regular basis.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
They write letters to each other.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
That's obviously the primary way that they're able to communicate,
or to communicate through other family and friends and to
kind of you pass messages on in the word on,
check in on and those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But it still is that that mantra family first.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
They all still talk like that and how important family
is to them and how much they love each other,
and that's a big part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I think then.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
For Dylan has one time he was in South Carolina,
He's moved around a bit. He's currently in a federal
prison in Wisconsin. That's a little challenging because he's far
away from his home base where some of his relatives
are more in the Florida area, including his nephew Eric,
who's Ryan's son. So I know that's challenging for him.
If I'm staying this correctly on his behalf, I think
(03:19):
he's hoping at some point to get everything kind of
taken care of and then he can hopefully make some
kind of transfer a little closer to home base and
again where he has that support system in place. But
I'd say he's even, dare I say a tough cookie.
It sounds like an oxymoron of a statement, but he's
thriving in the position that he's in.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I find him. This is my personal opinion.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
If I dare say that, he's very conciliatory and repentive
if you will, about the events that occurred. He's, you know,
understands he has to pay his debt to society. I
think all the siblings have a perspective, and I know
the argument can be made, who wouldn't that I've used
the word excessive. I don't mean to bleed my own
opinion to this, but you know, they got a lot
of time. They deserve to be in prison. I think
we can all agree on that. But they definitely got
(03:59):
the book pretty thrown at them, and the argument could
be made again, I'm not trying to politicize anything that
people have done a lot worse crimes than gotten less time.
But that being said, they did some things that were
not good, that were bad, and people, while they weren't hurt,
could have gotten very seriously hurt or even killed. And
they do, you know, again, deserve to be where they are.
I'm seeing and I've known them now for oh gosh,
(04:21):
I want to say eight plus years, seeing change, seeing growth,
seeing kids turn into adults, and that's been fascinating to
see that, to see that perspective, that wisdom, that understanding
has been really interesting to see, but exciting to see too,
just that growth. I think then specifically, Ryan, who probably
has the most complicated might recall from the story and
(04:41):
you'd see this portrayed in the film as well, that
he had a you know, his girlfriend at the time
was pregnant with his soon to be born son, Eric,
and you know Eric is now ten or eleven.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I know that he is able to do as I.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Understand it, calls video calls, and that's been very helpful,
and without saying too much to also protect a little
bit of the privacy of everybody, is that Ryan is
currently serving time now. He was in all the way
in Arizona for quite some time, but he was able
to get transferred to closer to home and where his
family is, which is in the state of Florida, So
that's been a real I think game changer for him.
He's probably I don't think he'd mind me saying this,
(05:15):
but struggle the most in the sense that prison life's
been really hard for him. I think his personality type
being the younger sibling, not that he isn't tough in
his own way, but probably was the biggest m path
of the group. So you can imagine adjusting to, you know,
basically looking at the rest of your life and incarceration
has been a really hard one for him.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Without saying too much about this, but I know they
mentioned this.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
A couple of the siblings have definitely struggled with drug
use with how prison life works. But currently I'm happy
to say that everybody is clean and living a healthy
lifestyle in that way for now, which is great. I
know that that makes the rest of the family, you know,
feel very good too. I've been also in touch in
somewhat recent history also with their mother. You know, she
(05:58):
is still very close with all of them, keeps in
direct contact. I think, without saying too much that you know,
she also like, look, these are my kids, and it's
as tragic. She acknowledges and knows they did some bad things,
but I think she'd love to see them being able
to make something of their lives and move on with
their lives and come out of this better or more
evolved grown up people, hopefully not serving as much time
(06:18):
as they are. And I think that kind of brings
us to one of the last points is is there
a way for them to maybe you know, hyper accelerate
some of the time that they're serving so that they
can have paid their debt to society but actually do
something in their lives and contribute to society. I know
that's something that they all express wanting to do. I
think for anybody who gets the opportunity to really to
have listened to the podcast can kind.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Of see all shades and hues of it.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I think that's interested to us in the story and
myself as a filmmaker also was there was a lot
of ambiguity in this. It's not the good guys are
wearing white hats, the bad guys wearing black hats.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
There's a lot of the in between.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I think seeing one of the big I hate to
use a word, but messages is that there's a huge
swath of the population that is very unrealized, that is
very marginalized. Not listen to not recognize, yes, is maybe
a listener could tell interested in hearing this. I've gotten
close with them, so it's challenging for me to separate
myself at times. But we try to do our best
with that and try to relay this story and their
(07:13):
plight and their story also in the film telling as well,
so that the audience can kind of make up their
own mind about it. I think the big takeaway is that, yeah,
please familiarize yourself if you've already listened to the podcast, obviously,
if also getting a chance to see the film kind
of see it traumatized and realized. We try to keep
this close to true events. Obviously, have to trunk certain
things because we're telling a story in a little less
(07:34):
than twoever, but you know, hearing it from shall we
see the horse's mouth of the people that lived the experience,
is also looking at from even the law enforcement side
and the challenges they faced, and also kind of fulfilling them,
portraying them, I hope to see fully complex. So it's
not just like these federal agents just you know, chasing
the bad guy and how all that kind of you
(07:55):
know comes into focused and kind of a lens of
yeah and discussions. So I think they've had a lot
of time to think about what they did. Not the excuse,
but they were quite young when they made the decisions
that they made. And again I will say in underline
is that they deserve to pay for those mistakes that
they made.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
But I think at this point, look.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I think they've all been learning different vocations while in prison,
and they all even prior to prison had certain skill
sets to where they could actually get decent jobs and
you know still you know, live a solid life in
that way coming back together as a family, and that
appreciation for at the end of the day, they're kind
of all they have and being each other's lives in
(08:35):
a realistic and tangible sense, not behind bars, not behind
just letters that can get to each other every now
and then, and the occasional word from another family member
is really important.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I do know.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I don't think I'm giving way too much of personal information,
But Dylan has talked about an interesting kind of sense
of humor about like, oh maybe I'm maybe I'll be
too old to do it, but maybe I could still, like,
you know, produce a child, an offspring, you know, or something.
So I think that's something.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That they would like. But then, you know, I have
to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
You can sense the tragedy and all because as much
as there's dreams and if anybody's ever had the chance
talks on prison, you know, I think there becomes this
like man, time passes, people move on, lives change, People
that were in your life aren't in your life anymore,
can't necessarily and won't necessarily stand by you for that
long period of time.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Certain family members unfortunately pass and so things really do change.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I think for them it's having solid jobs, working, making
a clean living. And you know, also from a self standpoint,
if we can talk like that, I think each of
them the obvious thing just being happy and content, and
this is the most important thing, I'll say, being free.
It sounds so contrived to say that, like, of.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Course in prison, of course they wouldn't be free.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
But you know, that's a big thing that we explore
in the film, but also we really touched on the podcast,
was we came to this conclusion through the journey of
interviewing all the people and interviewing them, that these were
kids that were looking for freedom. They weren't looking for
freedom to necessarily let's do what we want anarchy and
cause have it, to just have a break, to have
the opportunity to like stretch their wings and live whatever
(10:08):
their the concept of the American dream might be to
be able to breathe, to be able to like kind
of write your own ticket, to be able to work
a hard day's work but also get remunerated for that
and not have everything constantly working against them. That and
I think that's a really important thing for them, and
I think they still crave that in so many ways.
And again, the irony is they went on this trip
(10:29):
to begin with, they called it a trip, almost like
a family trip, and it turned in and spun out
it contleasly to this crime spree. They were, you know,
they were searching for something more, something better, and I
think it's something that's innately and all of us as
even Americans, is that go west, young man, young woman,
finds your way, like make your way in the world
and do something great and find freedom and breathe the clean.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Air and you know and all that. And I think
they're still searching for that. Unfortunately, I don't know if
I can stay I have the laboratually find it. From
the very first time you contacted them, what kind of
growth have you seen from them already?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, distinctly what I've seen, what I've had the opportunity
to see, and even the blessing in some way, if
you will, to see, which was not expected. I didn't
know one hundred percent what I was getting into when
I got into this, to be the objective was, you know,
at the onset was like, wow, there's an interesting story here.
We idied, like we should explore this and look at
(11:22):
developing it and then you never know when you go
down these rabbit holes where it'll take you. And it's
definitely I had the interesting and good fortune to see
was to get to know Ryan, Dylan Grace. But see
them and that's not to make an excuse about anything,
but they were young people, you know, Ryan being nineteen,
I think Dylan being like twenty three ish twenty four,
(11:43):
and lead Grace.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Being a year older than that. You know, in any ways.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Are command You're still just find your way in the world,
you know, And and they still were kids, you know,
they still were looking at it through that lens, and
I think in some way there was an ia there.
I think they started to, oh, man, we screwed up.
There's you know, we've got to a lot take care
of and pay for here. But at the same time,
I don't think they realize what that would look like
and just time to think and to have believe it
(12:08):
or not. Responsibilities in prison I should say this. You
know they are they each have jobs while in prison,
and they go to work. They have hours that they
have to go and schedules that they have to adhere to.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I think some of that is even for mental health.
It keeps you kind of again their words, kind.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Of sane to have that to do, and I think
that's really taught them a lot, and they become adults
and I've seen that growth.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I think those are the major changes.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Is and really perspective, the opportunity to look back at
what they did and go man like I and I'm
speaking as if I'm them. I can see why I
made the decisions I made. I see where I excuse my.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Friends where I fucked up.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But at the same time, how can I learn from that?
How can I grow from that? And I think there
are regrets. I think again comes with digestion and addition
on your life and what you've done. I don't know
they have made the same decisions. I kind of think
they wouldn't have. I think the thing that is constant,
for better or for worse, is to do almost anything
to protect each other. Who might remember from the podcast,
(13:09):
and we touch on this in the movies that they
had a heart upbringing exceptionally heard upbringing, and won't get
you much away about that, the sense of really being
so tight knit that they were very protective of each other,
and that still that still remains, that has not wavered
at all. So I think those are the that's kind
of the evolution that I've seen is, you know, the
interesting arc to see that, especially in this context of
(13:31):
the giting incident, of all them being on the run
and eventually be captured, but spending this length of.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Time and incarcerated.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
If I was going to break this down from an
armchair psychologists standpoint of where things are today, what's news
since we listened to the whole podcast, and where we
are today as of right now. What I've observed and
noticed is that each one of these three siblings, their
character has not necessarily changed. It's almost magnified over time.
(13:59):
And in that I find personally a bit of tragedy
and sadness and seeing some of that. I don't mean
to leave this on like a downer from my perspective
of having had the opportunity to know that this period
of time, my responsibility as a writer is to try
to deserve the human condition, the human experience and story
(14:21):
and get to know these characters. I am again not
purporting myself to be kind of any kind of psychologist
or an expert.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I am not, so this is just a layman's perspective.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
But I think just noticing the characters that we portray
in the film, that we also obviously get to know
on the podcast, you kind of saw their aids magnified
where they are today.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
This is what's different today is that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It's more there's growth, so they become adults, but you
still see those same characteristics of the young Dylan Lee
Grayson Ryan for example, Dylan. Dylan always had all the
responsibility on his shoulders. He had to be the strong one,
he had to take care of his younger siblings. So
when doing so, you still see that now, like he's
he hasn't let the system of you know, incarceration or
(15:06):
the prison. He's he's found a way to thrive in there.
As I was saying earlier, you'll hear him manning up
and being a man.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And I mean no disrespect in saying this, striving.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
To be wanted, to be desired, someone who wants to
fit in, who is a very strong person, but also
is searching for something. You can feel that as a
young person. Again, we see this in the movie, we
heard this in the podcast buts but even today is
searching for something, searching like searching to be loved.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
And she's still doing that. She still is. I'm gonna
be blunt here, but you know, I.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Think Lee Grace is still even using you know her
there's a better, more appropriate way of saying this, but
feminine ways to you know, attract and connectivity on the
outside and to communicate with people and have relationships and
and that's very important to her.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
That probably seems to be one of her driving cores
and a way, and I bring that up not that
there's not.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
More to who she is as a person, and you know,
you still see the repercussions of that, you know, in
her personality and how she conducts herself with interfacing with
other people.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And then with Ryan, look, you know, he was the
one that was a little more led. He was led
by the other two.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
He was as the youngest, you know, constantly trying to
pull himself up by his own breeches or siblings were
trying to pull him if you can kind of picture
that figuratively speaking, and trying to keep up. And you
can still see that. I mean, he is a very
very smart person. Actually, I would say he has a
very high IQ, but also is as much as he's
(16:40):
streets smarts, there's certain categories where he still seems kind
of kidlike and he's still trying to catch up. And
I think that has made the prison experience in particular
extremely difficult on him.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I think he's had the hardest time.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So those are the things that I've seen and you
look at them and I can still see the kids
in them. I can still see the kids that had
all the promise in the world. And I mean the
kids even when they were kids, when we're talking about
when they were seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, because we
touch on all those things and there's still hope and promise.
But yet there are situation, their familial situation and the
(17:14):
things that they were dealing with personally and also again
their station in life, their socioeconomic status. There, you know,
disintegration of the family nucleus, all those things that contributed to,
you know, not the best situation for growing up. You
could still see the remnants of that even as they
are adults. Would love for you guys to see the
(17:36):
film because it is based on a true story and
true events, and you know, it's always what's behind the
headlines that seems to be the most interesting and the
most important and most impactful. While it's entertaining and dare
I say it has all the salacious bells and whistles
of the sex, drugs and rock and roll of this
cross country crime spree that was enacted by these three siblings,
there was much more to the story that impacted real
(17:57):
lives and continues to impact real lives to this, including
the real siblings who are currently in prison for the
rest of their lives for the most part, so love
for you to take a look at it and kind
of make your own opinion on your perspective on the
docrts and their story.
My name is Sean McEwan, and I'm the writer, director
of one of the producers of the feature film American Outlaws,
which is coming out in select theaters on Friday, September fifteenth.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You can also see it from the comfort of your own.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Home on video on demand Apple, iTunes and Amazon, etc.
The Dockerty Gang is a feature film story based on
the true life events of three siblings, Ryan Doherty, Dylan Doherty,
and league raceed Docerty who back in a little over
a decade ago, they went on a cross country crime
spree where they were robbing banks, and each one of
(00:34):
them are currently serving an excessive amount of time thirty
plus years in three separate federal prisons. The reason I'm
here today is for a couple of reasons. One is
we do have a feature film is coming out selects on.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
The fifteenth of September Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Also, it will be available for home viewing in the
VOD video on demand space. You can go to Apple,
Amazon and check out the film. We think it's an
extraordinary film because it does fit that true crime space.
Based on a true story, I had the very good opportunity,
as people might recollect from the podcast of working and
getting to know directly the actual individuals that were involved
(01:10):
in the real true events, including Ryan, Lee Grace, and Dylan,
got very close with each of them, close with some
of their family members and some of the other.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Individuals that were involved in the story.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
What's interesting about talking today in particular is the fact
that there are some updates just to kind of see
where things have gone from the original events that we
portrayed in the earlier episodes of the podcast. You know,
there's a lot of time has passed, a lot of change,
a lot of growth, which I kind of find interesting
even from a psychological standpoint, a human interest standpoint. I'll
start with Lee Grace. Lee Grace has definitely acclimated, I think,
(01:42):
to the prison life, if you will. Each of the
siblings are currently still facing various charges, not all the
same charges, of various charges with some other states. Again,
even a decade later, this is still ongoing legal problems
and issues and complications that they did cross state lines
which created a federal dynamic here that they have to
deal with, so that still hangs over their head. As
(02:04):
I mentioned earlier, they're each serving terms that are roughly
between thirty and thirty five years a piece. So they
do have the opportunity to eventually pay their debt to
society and get out of prison. However, they will be
much more advanced in age obviously at that point.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So back to Lee.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Grace in particular, I think she's acclimated quite nicely to
the prison system. She's made a lot of friends, she
has some contacts and some penpals, shall we call them,
on the outside. I think that's kind of her lifeline.
I think a big part of the story and the
thing that interested all of us from the beginning is family.
She still is very connected to her brothers, as in
contact with them on a fairly regular basis.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
They write letters to each other.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
That's obviously the primary way that they're able to communicate,
or to communicate through other family and friends and to
kind of you pass messages on in the word on,
check in on and those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But it still is that that mantra family first.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
They all still talk like that and how important family
is to them and how much they love each other,
and that's a big part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I think then.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
For Dylan has one time he was in South Carolina,
He's moved around a bit. He's currently in a federal
prison in Wisconsin. That's a little challenging because he's far
away from his home base where some of his relatives
are more in the Florida area, including his nephew Eric,
who's Ryan's son. So I know that's challenging for him.
If I'm staying this correctly on his behalf, I think
(03:19):
he's hoping at some point to get everything kind of
taken care of and then he can hopefully make some
kind of transfer a little closer to home base and
again where he has that support system in place. But
I'd say he's even, dare I say a tough cookie.
It sounds like an oxymoron of a statement, but he's
thriving in the position that he's in.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I find him. This is my personal opinion.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
If I dare say that, he's very conciliatory and repentive
if you will, about the events that occurred. He's, you know,
understands he has to pay his debt to society. I
think all the siblings have a perspective, and I know
the argument can be made, who wouldn't that I've used
the word excessive. I don't mean to bleed my own
opinion to this, but you know, they got a lot
of time. They deserve to be in prison. I think
we can all agree on that. But they definitely got
(03:59):
the book pretty thrown at them, and the argument could
be made again, I'm not trying to politicize anything that
people have done a lot worse crimes than gotten less time.
But that being said, they did some things that were
not good, that were bad, and people, while they weren't hurt,
could have gotten very seriously hurt or even killed. And
they do, you know, again, deserve to be where they are.
I'm seeing and I've known them now for oh gosh,
(04:21):
I want to say eight plus years, seeing change, seeing growth,
seeing kids turn into adults, and that's been fascinating to
see that, to see that perspective, that wisdom, that understanding
has been really interesting to see, but exciting to see too,
just that growth. I think then specifically, Ryan, who probably
has the most complicated might recall from the story and
(04:41):
you'd see this portrayed in the film as well, that
he had a you know, his girlfriend at the time
was pregnant with his soon to be born son, Eric,
and you know Eric is now ten or eleven.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I know that he is able to do as I.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Understand it, calls video calls, and that's been very helpful,
and without saying too much to also protect a little
bit of the privacy of everybody, is that Ryan is
currently serving time now. He was in all the way
in Arizona for quite some time, but he was able
to get transferred to closer to home and where his
family is, which is in the state of Florida, So
that's been a real I think game changer for him.
He's probably I don't think he'd mind me saying this,
(05:15):
but struggle the most in the sense that prison life's
been really hard for him. I think his personality type
being the younger sibling, not that he isn't tough in
his own way, but probably was the biggest m path
of the group. So you can imagine adjusting to, you know,
basically looking at the rest of your life and incarceration
has been a really hard one for him.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Without saying too much about this, but I know they
mentioned this.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
A couple of the siblings have definitely struggled with drug
use with how prison life works. But currently I'm happy
to say that everybody is clean and living a healthy
lifestyle in that way for now, which is great. I
know that that makes the rest of the family, you know,
feel very good too. I've been also in touch in
somewhat recent history also with their mother. You know, she
(05:58):
is still very close with all of them, keeps in
direct contact. I think, without saying too much that you know,
she also like, look, these are my kids, and it's
as tragic. She acknowledges and knows they did some bad things,
but I think she'd love to see them being able
to make something of their lives and move on with
their lives and come out of this better or more
evolved grown up people, hopefully not serving as much time
(06:18):
as they are. And I think that kind of brings
us to one of the last points is is there
a way for them to maybe you know, hyper accelerate
some of the time that they're serving so that they
can have paid their debt to society but actually do
something in their lives and contribute to society. I know
that's something that they all express wanting to do. I
think for anybody who gets the opportunity to really to
have listened to the podcast can kind.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Of see all shades and hues of it.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I think that's interested to us in the story and
myself as a filmmaker also was there was a lot
of ambiguity in this. It's not the good guys are
wearing white hats, the bad guys wearing black hats.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
There's a lot of the in between.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I think seeing one of the big I hate to
use a word, but messages is that there's a huge
swath of the population that is very unrealized, that is
very marginalized. Not listen to not recognize, yes, is maybe
a listener could tell interested in hearing this. I've gotten
close with them, so it's challenging for me to separate
myself at times. But we try to do our best
with that and try to relay this story and their
(07:13):
plight and their story also in the film telling as well,
so that the audience can kind of make up their
own mind about it. I think the big takeaway is that, yeah,
please familiarize yourself if you've already listened to the podcast, obviously,
if also getting a chance to see the film kind
of see it traumatized and realized. We try to keep
this close to true events. Obviously, have to trunk certain
things because we're telling a story in a little less
(07:34):
than twoever, but you know, hearing it from shall we
see the horse's mouth of the people that lived the experience,
is also looking at from even the law enforcement side
and the challenges they faced, and also kind of fulfilling them,
portraying them, I hope to see fully complex. So it's
not just like these federal agents just you know, chasing
the bad guy and how all that kind of you
(07:55):
know comes into focused and kind of a lens of
yeah and discussions. So I think they've had a lot
of time to think about what they did. Not the excuse,
but they were quite young when they made the decisions
that they made. And again I will say in underline
is that they deserve to pay for those mistakes that
they made.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
But I think at this point, look.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I think they've all been learning different vocations while in prison,
and they all even prior to prison had certain skill
sets to where they could actually get decent jobs and
you know still you know, live a solid life in
that way coming back together as a family, and that
appreciation for at the end of the day, they're kind
of all they have and being each other's lives in
(08:35):
a realistic and tangible sense, not behind bars, not behind
just letters that can get to each other every now
and then, and the occasional word from another family member
is really important.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I do know.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I don't think I'm giving way too much of personal information,
But Dylan has talked about an interesting kind of sense
of humor about like, oh maybe I'm maybe I'll be
too old to do it, but maybe I could still, like,
you know, produce a child, an offspring, you know, or something.
So I think that's something.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That they would like. But then, you know, I have
to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
You can sense the tragedy and all because as much
as there's dreams and if anybody's ever had the chance
talks on prison, you know, I think there becomes this
like man, time passes, people move on, lives change, People
that were in your life aren't in your life anymore,
can't necessarily and won't necessarily stand by you for that
long period of time.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Certain family members unfortunately pass and so things really do change.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I think for them it's having solid jobs, working, making
a clean living. And you know, also from a self standpoint,
if we can talk like that, I think each of
them the obvious thing just being happy and content, and
this is the most important thing, I'll say, being free.
It sounds so contrived to say that, like, of.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Course in prison, of course they wouldn't be free.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
But you know, that's a big thing that we explore
in the film, but also we really touched on the podcast,
was we came to this conclusion through the journey of
interviewing all the people and interviewing them, that these were
kids that were looking for freedom. They weren't looking for
freedom to necessarily let's do what we want anarchy and
cause have it, to just have a break, to have
the opportunity to like stretch their wings and live whatever
(10:08):
their the concept of the American dream might be to
be able to breathe, to be able to like kind
of write your own ticket, to be able to work
a hard day's work but also get remunerated for that
and not have everything constantly working against them. That and
I think that's a really important thing for them, and
I think they still crave that in so many ways.
And again, the irony is they went on this trip
(10:29):
to begin with, they called it a trip, almost like
a family trip, and it turned in and spun out
it contleasly to this crime spree. They were, you know,
they were searching for something more, something better, and I
think it's something that's innately and all of us as
even Americans, is that go west, young man, young woman,
finds your way, like make your way in the world
and do something great and find freedom and breathe the clean.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Air and you know and all that. And I think
they're still searching for that. Unfortunately, I don't know if
I can stay I have the laboratually find it. From
the very first time you contacted them, what kind of
growth have you seen from them already?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, distinctly what I've seen, what I've had the opportunity
to see, and even the blessing in some way, if
you will, to see, which was not expected. I didn't
know one hundred percent what I was getting into when
I got into this, to be the objective was, you know,
at the onset was like, wow, there's an interesting story here.
We idied, like we should explore this and look at
(11:22):
developing it and then you never know when you go
down these rabbit holes where it'll take you. And it's
definitely I had the interesting and good fortune to see
was to get to know Ryan, Dylan Grace. But see
them and that's not to make an excuse about anything,
but they were young people, you know, Ryan being nineteen,
I think Dylan being like twenty three ish twenty four,
(11:43):
and lead Grace.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Being a year older than that. You know, in any ways.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Are command You're still just find your way in the world,
you know, And and they still were kids, you know,
they still were looking at it through that lens, and
I think in some way there was an ia there.
I think they started to, oh, man, we screwed up.
There's you know, we've got to a lot take care
of and pay for here. But at the same time,
I don't think they realize what that would look like
and just time to think and to have believe it
(12:08):
or not. Responsibilities in prison I should say this. You
know they are they each have jobs while in prison,
and they go to work. They have hours that they
have to go and schedules that they have to adhere to.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I think some of that is even for mental health.
It keeps you kind of again their words, kind.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Of sane to have that to do, and I think
that's really taught them a lot, and they become adults
and I've seen that growth.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I think those are the major changes.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Is and really perspective, the opportunity to look back at
what they did and go man like I and I'm
speaking as if I'm them. I can see why I
made the decisions I made. I see where I excuse my.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Friends where I fucked up.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But at the same time, how can I learn from that?
How can I grow from that? And I think there
are regrets. I think again comes with digestion and addition
on your life and what you've done. I don't know
they have made the same decisions. I kind of think
they wouldn't have. I think the thing that is constant,
for better or for worse, is to do almost anything
to protect each other. Who might remember from the podcast,
(13:09):
and we touch on this in the movies that they
had a heart upbringing exceptionally heard upbringing, and won't get
you much away about that, the sense of really being
so tight knit that they were very protective of each other,
and that still that still remains, that has not wavered
at all. So I think those are the that's kind
of the evolution that I've seen is, you know, the
interesting arc to see that, especially in this context of
(13:31):
the giting incident, of all them being on the run
and eventually be captured, but spending this length of.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Time and incarcerated.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
If I was going to break this down from an
armchair psychologists standpoint of where things are today, what's news
since we listened to the whole podcast, and where we
are today as of right now. What I've observed and
noticed is that each one of these three siblings, their
character has not necessarily changed. It's almost magnified over time.
(13:59):
And in that I find personally a bit of tragedy
and sadness and seeing some of that. I don't mean
to leave this on like a downer from my perspective
of having had the opportunity to know that this period
of time, my responsibility as a writer is to try
to deserve the human condition, the human experience and story
(14:21):
and get to know these characters. I am again not
purporting myself to be kind of any kind of psychologist
or an expert.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I am not, so this is just a layman's perspective.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
But I think just noticing the characters that we portray
in the film, that we also obviously get to know
on the podcast, you kind of saw their aids magnified
where they are today.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
This is what's different today is that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It's more there's growth, so they become adults, but you
still see those same characteristics of the young Dylan Lee
Grayson Ryan for example, Dylan. Dylan always had all the
responsibility on his shoulders. He had to be the strong one,
he had to take care of his younger siblings. So
when doing so, you still see that now, like he's
he hasn't let the system of you know, incarceration or
(15:06):
the prison. He's he's found a way to thrive in there.
As I was saying earlier, you'll hear him manning up
and being a man.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And I mean no disrespect in saying this, striving.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
To be wanted, to be desired, someone who wants to
fit in, who is a very strong person, but also
is searching for something. You can feel that as a
young person. Again, we see this in the movie, we
heard this in the podcast buts but even today is
searching for something, searching like searching to be loved.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
And she's still doing that. She still is. I'm gonna
be blunt here, but you know, I.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Think Lee Grace is still even using you know her
there's a better, more appropriate way of saying this, but
feminine ways to you know, attract and connectivity on the
outside and to communicate with people and have relationships and
and that's very important to her.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
That probably seems to be one of her driving cores
and a way, and I bring that up not that
there's not.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
More to who she is as a person, and you know,
you still see the repercussions of that, you know, in
her personality and how she conducts herself with interfacing with
other people.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And then with Ryan, look, you know, he was the
one that was a little more led. He was led
by the other two.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
He was as the youngest, you know, constantly trying to
pull himself up by his own breeches or siblings were
trying to pull him if you can kind of picture
that figuratively speaking, and trying to keep up. And you
can still see that. I mean, he is a very
very smart person. Actually, I would say he has a
very high IQ, but also is as much as he's
(16:40):
streets smarts, there's certain categories where he still seems kind
of kidlike and he's still trying to catch up. And
I think that has made the prison experience in particular
extremely difficult on him.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I think he's had the hardest time.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So those are the things that I've seen and you
look at them and I can still see the kids
in them. I can still see the kids that had
all the promise in the world. And I mean the
kids even when they were kids, when we're talking about
when they were seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, because we
touch on all those things and there's still hope and promise.
But yet there are situation, their familial situation and the
(17:14):
things that they were dealing with personally and also again
their station in life, their socioeconomic status. There, you know,
disintegration of the family nucleus, all those things that contributed to,
you know, not the best situation for growing up. You
could still see the remnants of that even as they
are adults. Would love for you guys to see the
(17:36):
film because it is based on a true story and
true events, and you know, it's always what's behind the
headlines that seems to be the most interesting and the
most important and most impactful. While it's entertaining and dare
I say it has all the salacious bells and whistles
of the sex, drugs and rock and roll of this
cross country crime spree that was enacted by these three siblings,
there was much more to the story that impacted real
(17:57):
lives and continues to impact real lives to this, including
the real siblings who are currently in prison for the
rest of their lives for the most part, so love
for you to take a look at it and kind
of make your own opinion on your perspective on the
docrts and their story.
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