Blue Jays Take Control: Up 3–2 After Gritty LA Battles

Doug breaks down Games 3, 4, and 5 of the World Series as the Blue Jays take two of three in LA to grab a commanding 3–2 lead heading back to Toronto. He dives into the mental grind of October baseball, key coaching decisions, momentum swings, and how young stars and clutch vets are shaping this series.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back everybody. I'm your host, dougman Kavig, and this
is the Dugout Podcast. Today's episode, we're gonna briefly break
down games three, four, and five of the World Series.
Planned on doing these after every game, but Game three
would have been in the middle of the morning, at about
four o'clock in the morning, and quite honestly, I needed
time to exhale after that one. That was something that

(00:28):
you don't see every day. What a crazy game. The
game had everything right. Game had quality pitching, not so
quality pitching. It had some executed pitches, it had some
really awfully executed pitches. It had defense, it had bad defense.
It had base running and it had bad base running.

(00:48):
Quality hitting, had everything. It had some great at bats,
it had some not so great at bats. It had
some questionable decisions on the basis, it had some managing
decisions that kind of major scratch your head. All in all,
that game had literally everything you could possibly fathom wrapped
into one game, let alone a World Series game. So

(01:09):
we're not going to go in to almost break down
every inning. I'm just going to go over some of
the things that I saw and that I think are important.
That gets overlooked a little bit. I thought, for example,
glass now right, electric fastball through A lot of breaking
balls are in the count, a lot of them. I
think the first pitch of the game was a curd ball.
Maybe the Shadows had something to do with their game plan,

(01:30):
but that was interesting. We always talk about on this
podcast about talking about surviving the first inning. Both guys
did that. I think the things got a little crazy
in the top of the second. I thought Max did
a good job after giving up a lead off double
to keep them off the board. Top of the second
things got a little crazy, but sheet leads off of
the single varshow with a three to one count. I

(01:50):
spend a lot of time on x and Twitter during
these games, interacting with fans and interacting with people and
anyone who thinks that the hitter can hear the umpire
in a game, especially at Dodger Stadium or any of
these stadiums in a playoff gamer a World series is crazy.
First of all, bad pitch ball. That's ball four. Mark Wetner,
He's I don't really do a lot of negative comments

(02:14):
about umpiring because they their job is really hard. But
it's nice to see he's been consistent for the last
twenty years, and that was a really bad, bad call
at a really awful time. Ball four to our show
becomes strike two, far show walks away, comes back, bishek
gets stuck between first and second. It's a tough one.
I mean, you can say you've probably never seen that,

(02:37):
but I promise you if you go back and if
you spend a lot of time watching baseball, you actually have.
It's sad, but it does happen, you know. But you
know things that people always want to say, oh, well,
the next pitch was a hit. Well not necessarily there's
and that's how we as players think sometimes too. It's like, man,
I should have got have been a run, but that
normally doesn't end up that way. Pitch selections different, it's

(03:00):
a different situation. You can't quite predict the future. So
but I really felt like the Blue Jays do a
fantastic job of just picking themselves off the mat on
a mistake or a momentum swing. They come right back.
You know, some of those things in October can be demoralizing.
They can they can take you right out of your

(03:21):
game and you get caught dwelling on the past and
you're not really present in the present moment. They've done
a phenomenal job at being resilient, and they keep responding,
they keep coming back. I thought, you know, getting to
the bottom of the second hung a two stright breaking
ball ta Tasco all in all, I thought, that's all
you can ask for out of Surezer, forty one years old.

(03:44):
I know the gut, I know the grit. Probably could
have pushed it a little bit farther, but look, solo
homer is in October don't usually don't usually kill you.
He ended up giving up another one to Otani, But
you give up solo homers still too. You feel like
you feel pretty good about your chances to nothing. You
got a shot right. Well, this is where momentum swings

(04:05):
are huge in October. You have the solo homers Biotani,
Byotani and Tasca Hernandez, and then you have you have
the two out walk I think two out walk to Freeman.
He steals second, Will Smith singles, and Barger, who's slowly
becoming one of my favorite players, throws an absolute dime
to home plate a bazooka right on the money, and

(04:30):
that's a momentum swing. Another run becomes three, you start
tacking on runs in October. It's almost like a two spot.
But you can use your defense to create offense, and
that's what the Blue Jays seem to do. They boom
momentum shift, they turn around, they swing it, they get
out that inning, you're feeling you just gave up a

(04:50):
couple solo home runs, but you feel better about yourself
because you just had a big momentum shift and an
outfield assist at a home plate. Those are always good.
But when they come into the top of the fourth,
and we talked about this on this podcast before, lead
off walks. Lead off walks in any game kill you October.
They're magnified by one hundred lead off walks, bad walks,
the shit hits. What should have been a double play

(05:12):
ball kind of hugged the ground on Edmond. But now
we're looking at multiple guys on base first and third,
nobody out. Varshow flies out to shallow left. Now you're
thinking you have Kirk coming up. If you can get
him on the ground, you're getting out of this with
no runs, and you're feeling pretty good. That pop up
to a short left with Varshow, you know you go

(05:34):
from most of the time. If a starting pitcher, as
a defense you're thinking, and as a manager, first and third,
nobody out, You're like, if I can just give up
one here, right, you give up a side fly, guy
stays at first, get a double play ball, giving up one,
and we're good. Especially with nobody out. You get that
first out, and now you're thinking, I got a shout
to get out of this. And this is where we

(05:54):
go back to a glass. Now we're talking about throwing
a lot of first pitch breaking balls. Breaking balls are
off speed is in general are flyball pitches. Glass now
has got an electric fastball. The hardest pitch to elevate
in the game is a fastball in a well located
fastball in that jams you. Definitely you just put Kirk
on the ground. It's probably they will play first. I
don't know if Kirk was sitting on it. But the

(06:16):
blue Jay hitters seem to always have a pretty good
idea what's coming and when you That's the one thing
and we'll tie into this as we go on in
this episode. Their Dodgers are a little almost almost predictable,
and how they're pitching it. They have success with it.
I think in the past series. They could continue to
do that. These guys pick up on that. Kirk, I said,

(06:40):
I don't know if he's sitting first pitch, breaking ball,
but he hangs it. Kirk bangs it for a three
on homer, and now the game completely changes. Right now
you've got the lead. A lot of things can turn
around and one and one pitch and there it was,
and it goes back to the lead off the lead
off walk. You know that that's the swing of emotions
in October. You go from thinking as a pitcher on
one pitch away from getting out of the inning with
no runs. Next you know, I hang up breaking ball

(07:01):
and it's a three spot. So now it's three to two.
I said, we talk about the Blue Jays, just keep coming.
Barger singles, Clement dumps it into right field. Now it's
first and thirty minutes. Is his job with a sack
fly And this is another point, great job by Carlos
Field as the third base coach. And I know what
people think about it, and we're going to get to that
later in this game. It's a great teaching point for

(07:22):
young young young players. Coaches at every level. You know,
I always scream and preach run through the plate. Don't
run to the plate. Run through the plate. And if
you see that situation, you've got a first and third,
you have a guy who can run at first and
Clement and you have Bargar at third and manas it's
a flat ball, you see, usually the rule is he tags,

(07:44):
you tag and if you're the runner at first, his
balls at the center, guy from third tags up and runs,
and the guy from first tags up to god to
get the second. You're reading the throw, the throws right
in front of you. Your only job is to make
sure you pull up before the third out is made
on you, before the runner crosses the plate. I guarantee

(08:06):
you Snyder had a lump in his throat. That's a
little too close. Clement made it. But that's where if
the throw is online and you feel like you're gonna
be out, you have to pull up to make sure
that the run scores from third base. But if you
see the replay, Feblis was right in his ear, Barter's
ear screaming always. You know, all the way through, all
the way through, he's tagging, he's tagging, he's tagging. It's

(08:26):
definitely a reminder A lot of times guys, just assume
and you'll never getting are never in a really good
place if you're assuming stuff on a baseball field or
in life in general. If you break down the world,
assume you you've heard it before. I won't have to
repeat it, but I thought, you know, that's a really
heads up baseball play. Knows that they've been schooled on,
that they're aware of it. The situation. They didn't take

(08:49):
any for granted, you know, they they did their job.
Kind of move on to the bottom of the sixth.
Like I said, I'm not going to go over every inning.
I'm not going to go over a lot of the
extra innings because that was kind of painful to watch.
But boom and the sixth for me, as a play
in a position to first base, this play by Bladd
Junior was exceptional. Doesn't do it enough justice to have

(09:11):
the wherewithal to come off the bag and not only
come off the bag, but run yourself basically into a
really tough short, really tough pick, tough hop to backhand it,
not only to backhand it, stride you slip while you're
trying to throw to third And if you look at
the replay, he didn't have control of the ball while

(09:34):
as he was getting ready to throw so good pick
come off the bag, slipping with his feet and not
quite having a grip, and to throw a one hot,
absolute rocket to third. Trust me, that's a play. What's
in the regular season. The risk isn't worth the reward.
You throw it away. The run scores bang, bang, but

(09:54):
another momentum swing. You know, you get out of there.
Anytime there's guys in scoring position, no outs, one outs,
two outs, you know, obviously there's a chance in October
gonna give up a run, and that's a that's a
way to get out of the inning. And it was
a It was one of the better players you're gonna
see from a first baseman and any generation. So you know, I,
like I said, I was definitely, I was definitely. I mean,

(10:15):
how that goes down is a six three five right,
six three five put out? You don't see those too
often in many baseball games. And then we go I've
written down why why why I'm gonna say it again? Why? Okay,
this ties into Look, I know, sho hey o Tani
is the best player on the planet. I get it.

(10:36):
No one's ever done it. He's doing things that aren't explainable.
He's a freak unicorn, whatever you want to call. He's
just the best player. That being said, if you look
at the breakdown of the home runs that he's hit,
those pitches are too close. He's hit one ball I

(10:57):
think that's been off the plate in I think it
was sure up and end that he got to it.
He kept it fair. Look, I'm not taking anything away.
Anytime you're on based nine times in one game, like,
you can't explain that. That's just it's a mythical creature.
But we always call these bad meetings. Pete Walker goes
to the mount and Domingos is pitching, and they go

(11:18):
meet before his at bat. You can't tell me that
the pitching coach said, hey, you know what, let's see
if we just is throw it right down the middle
and see what happens. That ball split center cut and
it goes back to you know, people saying, oh the
pitching's better. Yeah, okay, I'll give you a little bit
of that. But then again, they have control, they don't
have command. You know, it's Otani. You know Mookie Betts

(11:41):
is hitting after that great player, not swinging it real well,
right now, why in God's Green Earth, Are you throwing
a first pitch fastball? If you want to pitch to him,
you throw four pitches around the zone. If he wants
to make him, if he wants to get himself out,
you let him. You let him. If he doesn't, he
takes his walk. But you can't tell me that you

(12:05):
wasted a mountain visit to send your pitching coach out there.
Be like, hey, we're gonna throw it right down the middle.
I did it one time as a manager. Once I
went out to the mound Jose Biaz daytona beach a ball.
He already hit three homers that game, and the catcher
called me out to the mound and I went out there,

(12:27):
and they asked me what I thought we should do,
and I said, let's throw it down the middle and
see if he hits four. I've never seen someone hit
four to one game. And sure enough, we did it.
Then he hit it out. Point of the story was,
I watched him hit three pitches that were off the
plate over the fence. I thought maybe if we threw
him a strike, he'd miss it. Didn't miss it. But

(12:50):
I think that's where I'll just get off talking. But
it's just that can't happen. You can't in a one
run game. You can't let not only I get it.
The Dodgers are loaded with superstars one thousand percent, But
you have to go with what your eyes are telling
you at the given moment. Otani, Otani. It reminds me

(13:10):
Mike Piazza was like this. If Mike hit a rocket
his first at bat, he was getting four hits. It
was just amazing. If you look back Otani's first at bat, bullet,
then he went four for four. He was locked in.
Don't throw him anything he can hit. Do you want
to chase three balls at your back foot? Sliders go

(13:32):
right ahead, but you can't think you can sneak one
by him, especially on the white part of the plate.
It's just not gonna work. So a couple of things
that stuck out to man I felt for Ty Frantz.
Springer goes up there and blows it looks like a
ribcage or a lower back injury, probably because of his knee.
He's probably trying to overswing, which created a little bit

(13:53):
more torque. Could be fatigue. Whatever, it is awful time
to get hurt and and even worse time to throw
Ty Frantz up there. God hasn't played and probably hadn't
done a bat in a month, maybe six weeks at least.
If you know you're in the if you're in the
scope of pinch hitting, you have a chance to go

(14:14):
in the cage and get some swings in. He's probably
hadn't played, he hadn't sniffed the field yet, and they
throw him up there, and to his credit, he got
a knock later in the game, So kudos to you.
But that's a tough spot. We're gonna go into. More
of that we get as we keep going. And also
there were a couple of times we had some guys
thrown out at home plate, and I know social media

(14:36):
was going off on all was a horrible son by
fiblist d Well. I'll go back to what Sam Polazzo
was probably one of the best if you ask around
the game, he's probably in the top five all time
third base coaches. It was a third base coach for
over twenty years for lou Panella, so he's got a
thick skin and he knows it. And I learned a
lot from Sammy, and Sammy always looked at me and

(14:59):
I'm when I first started coaching third, I'd like, do
we have them, do we have a shot there? And
he goes, we'll never know. And if I said a
guy that got thrown out, I'd come back in the
dugout and he goes, well, at least we know. Just
because someone makes a decision and it doesn't work out,
it doesn't mean it was the wrong decision. Sometimes, even

(15:20):
at the major league level, you have to force teams
to execute. If you saw the previous relay throw from
Tascar from right field, Matt Junior's out too. If a
throw is online but it wasn't, so you give credit
to the Dodgers for the ball down the right field line.
The Tasco's throw to Edmund was perfect Edmund did a

(15:41):
really good job transfer, perfect throw home. Yep, you're out.
You keep waiting around for two out hits that you
just don't get. They're not gonna You'll never know they
executed the play. Doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.
It just didn't work out. This is where I go
with all of this. In this game, a couple a
lot of things and extra innings. This is why they

(16:02):
created the runner at second base for the regular season
because a lot of guys changed their approach to be
the hero and hit home runs, and that's what your
that's the outcome. Now. The difference between that get I
didn't like it in the beginning and I managed with it.

(16:22):
I actually liked it because it saved a lot of
moves during the regular season. You're calling up pitches if
you go through eighteen innings, your trip auba A ball
staffs are getting all shuffled around, and it saves a
ton of money for organizations with travel. It just does,
and you save yourself from seeing position players pitch. I'm
not one to sit back and play Monday morning quarterback

(16:45):
about decisions managers make, but looking at that game and
watching it go Snyder's decisions to me, I like to
just go over them. The lineup from the ninth to
the eighteenth. I'm pretty sure that at no time in
place did they ever envision that would be a lineup

(17:07):
they would throw out there. And I know they have
defensive replacements, they replace Straw for bert Berger, but you've
got to have some offense left. I mean, that was
really tough to expect the Blue Jays to scrap across
a run when you don't have Kirk, you don't have
Bushett Barger's out. Uh. The only ones you really have

(17:29):
in there that are offensive Clement varshow really and that's it.
So and Vladdie and who they're gonna they're gonna eliminate
any chance they get. Going back to the play at
the plate, people are like, how do you send a
guy with Vlad Junior on deck? There's no way they're
pitching the lad there, There's no way. So you're gonna

(17:49):
it was basically they walk Vlad Junior. Ifks on deck,
they're gonna make him beat you. And if you're the Dodgers,
you take that matchup. So the point is like it
was gonna take a It was gonna take something that
it just didn't look at certain times. I get defensive guys.
I've been one. I understand it. You used the whole bench,

(18:09):
but the Kirk removal, I get it. You're a catcher.
You don't want your catcher catching eighteen innings. But Will
Smith did and he's coming off a broken hand. That's
how important that game was. Eighteen innings. I think he
could do it to stay in there and try. But
then now you have a backup catcher who probably hasn't

(18:30):
even if it works right, I think Kirk ended up
walking and he got to first or single. However he
got a first. There's too many innings, they all blend together.
But Kirk gets the first and they pinch run for him.
How much faster is your backup catcher? And then throwing
the fact that their backup catcher got the second base
on a three to two count and didn't run, like

(18:53):
three two two outs, the guy goes home, you take
off for third. He just shuffled up and it almost
cost him because some the ground ball two months he
was a dribbler and he's just holding on third. It
almost cost him there. So and even go beyond that,
do you really want even if you do score there,
do you really want your backup catcher who hasn't caught
in a month to get the three biggest outs of

(19:16):
the World Series up at that point? So you know,
like I understand the straw moves. I tweeted it last night,
he's a gold Glover. I'm all for that. But the
whole lefty righty Barjorie hit a three run bomb off
a left handed reliever in Game one. Why he's got

(19:36):
a howarzer? He seemed pretty good in the right field.
And yes, in most cases, absolutely you take him out
for defense. But when you've already lost pretty much two
thirds of your entire offense, there are times that you
might want to think about the other route. The difference
in defense doesn't make up for the lack of offense

(19:58):
that your team had from the ninth in to the eighteenth.
Why is Bassett only throwing one inning? He was a starter.
He's been electric the entire postseason, especially in a game
like that, there's your guy to create length unless you're
you know, unless you're saving him behind Sureser. But Sureser
through that game, So what are you waiting for? He's

(20:21):
seemed he's had really quick innings. He's command has been great,
you know they have they've had They've taken some really
bad swings against him in every series, and he wasn't
even I don't think he's on the roster in n Alds,
So like I'm missing something. There's your length guy, he
can give you two or three. He's used as being
a starter. I think he's been lights out. So the
head him and backup catcher move didn't make sense to me.

(20:43):
He did, I thought he did a pretty good job
back there considering the circumstances, and it's not a knock
against It's not a knock against the players. It's just tough.
It's tough to play in October, and it's tough to
really play in October when you're coming in the game
late and you're facing the relievers who are usually nastier
than the starters. Pajes, this is not John ban Sneyder's decision,

(21:06):
But what do you have to do to get that
guy out of there? I mean, I'm all four sticking
with your guys, but he had a rough stretch coming
into October and October. Man oh Man, Look, I've mentioned
this on this podcast before. October pitching is completely a
lot different than it is in the regular season, but

(21:28):
there have been a lot of mistakes made from both staffs.
If you look at the pitches that are on the
white part of the play, there's a lot more of
those than normal than normal October. And this dies into
look at this kid he's got. Don't get me wrong,
he had a hell of a year twenty seven homers,
but I mean it's there is a zero adjustment in

(21:48):
what he's doing and four for fifty whatever it is
with the four for whatever he had leading into the postseason.
It's you know, that's the big difference in October. Like
that that shows you the difference between how watered down
pitching actually is at the major league level. The better

(22:09):
the usually the better staffs do what going deep in October,
and the staff that aren't are at home watching it. Well,
twenty seven homers is a lot of homers, but he
hasn't even sniffed had it come close to one in October.
You know that's all in all. I'm not trying to

(22:30):
try not to state the obvious. Oh Tani reaching base
nine times, it is just absolutely ridiculous people complaining about
the intentional walk that many times. Look, you can't complain
about the speed of the game and then on the
same sentence say you want the pitchers to have to
stand up and throw four balls? Make up your mind?
And can we stop with every time something happens? Can
we change the damn rule? I mean, we've already we've

(22:53):
already ruined enough of the game with these rules that
we have now, and now we're going to add you
can't intentionally walk a guy more than once. Like just
just stop it, like just stop where like Baseball needs
to stop catering to the casual baseball fan. Stop catering
to the casual fan who doesn't really pay attention anyways. Look,

(23:15):
the price of a ticket is through the roof. Why
are you in such a rush to get out of there?
The more I spend something, the more of the time
I want to spend there. If the game's two hours long,
you didn't really get your money's worth, but fans and
they only got the money's worth. And holy cow, kudos
to the training staff and the strength and conditioning guys.

(23:37):
That had to look like a complete mass unit after
that game, After that game and leading into the next game.
Man oh man, the coal tank must have been a
There must have been a time limit, because that had
to be everybody waiting for it, not only the banged
up guys, but everybody's banged up in October, man oh man.
The supplements, the drinks, the recovery drinks, the you know,

(23:59):
the whatever it is to get them ready to play.
Goodness gracious like that it must have been. I mean,
think about it. There's a fruit plate brought out by
the Blue Jays in extra innings like that. Stuff all
adds up, and to think about you've got two more
games and got to bounce back after that with the
intensity of every pitch in situations like that. So that

(24:23):
was what I thought about when that when that game
was over, who's going to be able to withstand the
trauma of that, because yeah, you won the game, but
there's gonna be some hangover effect with position players, slower bats,
maybe don't have the don't have the legs, a little

(24:43):
more mental mistakes because you're not quite there. And it
is the World Series, don't get me wrong, but there's
only so much you can take mentally as capacity to
handle situations like that. So that was a couple of
things that I was thinking about leading into the next game. Obviously,
to wrap up Game three, Freddie Freeman, I mentioned it
earlier on the podcast in previous episodes that it just

(25:04):
felt like he was getting closer, closer closer. He kept
flying out the center, just missing pitches. If you read
his facial expressions on some of the foul balls, you
know he doesn't feel completely on, but he's just missing.
He's getting a lot of pitches to hit, and you know,
obviously he didn't miss this one. You give those guys,
you give hitters like Freddy that many chances. It doesn't

(25:26):
matter if it's right or lefty, but they're going to
get you. And you know, it's crazy to think that
he did it the walk off brand Slam last year's
World Series and then turn around and do it again
this year. It's pretty pretty epic, pretty phenomenal. So you
just keep it, giving those guys enough chances and then
the good ones like Freeman are going to are going
to kill you. And they did. But what a heck

(25:47):
of a baseball game. And I hope those guys slept fast,
because man, that was a long one had into Game
four after both teams went home and took a nap
and turn around and came back again. We talked about
earlier the training staff, therapists, strength coaches, whoever can get
their kinks out for this would probably be a mass

(26:08):
unit standing Ramolin, and they're waiting for the cold tanks,
standing Ramolin, for the hot tubs, whatever they had to
do to get themselves ready to both play this game
mentally and physically. Yes, the physical side is tough, but
the mental side of October is much more taxing than
the physical side. To be able to have full focus

(26:29):
for six hundred plus pitches is a lot to ask for.
I was curious to see how Will Smith was gonna
catch because of catching eighteen innings the day before when
he also remember in the beginning of the playoffs he
was coming in late because he had a broken hand
and they were taking it easy on his innings. See
how he bounces back. Not to said he can't do it,

(26:49):
but maybe a ball off the glove, a little lack
of concentration on a block might change might change the
outcome of a game, And those are things to watch. Otani,
how long his legs last nine times on the basis
the night before that can be taxing too big guy
ran the bases a lot. Doesn't sound like much, but

(27:10):
there's definitely a factor to that. So who's gonna jump
out early? Ken Chane Bieber, you know, give you five plus,
he's going to take his you know, be able to
spin it, have feel which coming off Tommy John surgery,
sometimes you don't always have it hopefully, you know, going
into the game, you're hoping he has it. And what's

(27:30):
he do with Otani offensively coming off of you know,
being intentionally walk five times? So they go right at him?
How do they pitch him. You know a lot of
things going into this game that you were you know,
they were made it intriguing, definitely. You know, the Dodgers
jump out early in the second and he on a
sack fly. Nothing' too crazy, I thought. I thought Bieber

(27:51):
pitching to Otani was magical. You could say his first
at bat, he got a breaking ball down to strike
that probably wasn't but he also got the change up
three to two that was definitely a strike. He had
called a ball, but he definitely he made it. O'tani

(28:12):
look human. I think he held him in check. Ken
Bieber get through the lineup three times. We'll see. But
I thought he did a fantastic job of Otani mixing
it up, breaking balls in change ups away. I thought
his change up was for left handed hitters. Was was huge,
especially to Otani. To get him to swing and miss
after the night he had the night before didn't go unnoticed.

(28:37):
You know, Tony just a freak amazing unicorn. We always
said it, but it goes back to the Blue Jay's
ability to respond immediately. Like I said, the Dodgers go
up one nothing on a sack fly and then boom
right away, Lucas singles, flat junior homers nither two to one.

(29:00):
They have an uncanny knack of coming back and refusing
the opponent to get a shutdown in after they score.
They find a way to keep putting pressure on the
other team, no matter how it's done, and whether it's
a homer or whether it's a you know, a walk, single,
good at bat, foul balls, they just find a way

(29:21):
to just keep coming back at you. Obviously, Vlad's homer
injects life into you. You're up two to one. It
stayed that way. It stayed that way all the way
to the top of the seventh Again. The Dodgers Otani
going into the series the will the Vestie thing with

(29:41):
the personal reasons. I hope everybody's okay, but if the
Vessie not being there and one less left hander really
really has changed the dynamic of the Dodgers bullp because
I think if you ask Dodger fans and Dave Roberts
behind closed doors, he only probably he trust one or
two guys. Bessie was one and the closest Uzaki was

(30:04):
the other one. I don't think he trusts anybody else
besides that, and taking one of those out and already
a short pin. It's probably it's definitely coming. It's definitely
causing some some guys to be used in the situation
that Doc probably didn't want to be used. It use
him in. When you get to the seventh inning, you
talk about the leadoff hitter again, Varshow singles. Here they come.

(30:27):
You know, Clement hits a rocket off the left center
for your wall. Just missed the two run homer. Now
you got you got second third. He metus, who you know,
has done a fantastic job filling in at shortstop. Doesn't
get gets a ton of hype, but man, he comes
up with at least one thing a night that grinds
out in a bat or sticks his nose in the

(30:49):
left on left and flicks the ball and he's He's
driven in some really big runs in the postseason, especially
in this World Series. You know, he he singles to left,
makes it three to one. Got Francis comes in, Ty
Franz comes in, pinch hits, finds a way to hit
to get the ball on the ground, pushes the ball
in the second baseman can't turn a double play, stays

(31:10):
out of the double play, keeps the line moving scores
another point. Now it's four to one. Now you're starting
to feel like you're that you know, you start mounting
tack on runs. It just makes it that much harder
for the opposing team. And then Bobaschek comes up amazing again.
He's probably on one leg, he hasn't played in a month,
and he's still There's guys that have an uncanny knack

(31:33):
of driving runs in and driving big runs in. He
has that. He's not afraid to use the whole field.
He can he can hit spin, he can hit speed,
he can hit location, and he doesn't try to do
too much when there's when there's men at score position
out there. And he had a rocket drives another guy

(31:55):
in for a single, which obviously, if you could run,
would have probably been a double, but makes it five
to one. Barger comes up another single, six to one,
and and I'm screaming at the TV, like, can't we
just leave our left handed hitters into place? Lefties? Can't
we do it? At this point and now you saw it,
he started to play longer. But dot's not forget Barger

(32:16):
didn't start Game one in the World Series, and he
came in hit a Grand Slam offul left hander by
the way, and look Blake Snell, he's nasty. On right,
he's too. He's nasty for a reason. To me, you
ride the hotter guy. You ride the hotter guy. He
just proved you. He just hit a lefty for a
Grand Slam in Game one. I'm gonna write it out

(32:37):
with him. Nice to see him and stay in there. Six' to,
one you get a. Breather if there's, so if there
is such a thing In October, bassett it comes comes,
in does what he, does goes this scoreless inning and
they take him, out which still. QUESTIONABLE i don't understand,
it but you know this game's over and you start

(32:58):
to realize as maybe the older team has got the.
Effect and don't get me, wrong trying to win back
to back A World Series october takes a lot off of.
You it takes a lot off. You kudos to the
teams that have done it, before and this thing's far from.
Over but think back to The. Yankees you talk take
a month out of your recovery in the, offseason and

(33:19):
you got to do it. Again they'll wear and tear
if you look at there's a reason why repeating is
so damn. Hard it's hard to. Do maybe that has
something to do with the fatigue factor of The dodgers
last night or the night of this. Game it just
didn't look like they had much fight that you can
say that more credit to the you, know The Blue jays,
pitching but you, know The dodgers scratch out a run,

(33:41):
late make it six to, two but you, know just
a phenomenal job Of John schnyder and the coaching staff
and the players to bounce back from that the night
before eighteen and the's gut. Punch feel like you had
many opportunities to win that, game and you, know you

(34:05):
try not to do the what if, factor you try
not to In, october but you're. Human you're gonna do. It,
man oh, man could you imagine we just one step,
here one step, there this throw doesn't go, there you,
know to turn, around strap it back, on get back
after the next. Day and this kind of ties me
into WHAT i wanted to talk about, too about what's going,

(34:25):
On LIKE i wish more teams would stick with This
Blue jays blueprint besides the obvious and how they play
and how they swing the bats and how their their
focus isn't so much on, on you, know just firing
off my a. Swing that's obvious their, grinders but just
look at the way they're. Built their two main guys

(34:45):
coming up Were Vlad junior And. Bobashet they went With John,
schneider who had been the organization a long, time had
those guys at the lower, levels and they moved them up.
Together they gave him an experienced bench coach In Don,
kntingly who's been a manager at the major league. Level

(35:06):
if you look at the past, couple you Know ron
Garden higer was the bench coach For Tornado bellow In.
Arizona that's, Smart but you look at this. Staff The
Marlo hale's been around, forever never heard a single player
say a bad thing about, them from nineteen ninety five
to the. President i've never heard a player say a
bad thing about To Marlow. Hale then you Have Pete,

(35:27):
walker the pitching. Coach mainstay was the pitching coach WHEN
i was still a. Player still, there there's just continuity.
There and you always hear players talk about when they
first get called up they want to feel. Comfortable it's.
Hard once they have, success they start to feel. Comfortable,
well the big leagues is far from. Comfortable but when

(35:48):
you have young players and they get to look down the,
line they're not having to not only impress the league
or impress their, manager but they know their. Manager their
managers seeing them perform forever they've had, them when they
were babies and nineteen years old and a ball and
coming on the way up like there's you just remove
one of the one of the question, marks because every

(36:11):
time you move up you have to prove it to
the next staff that you're worthy and that you're good,
enough and you know and you have to learn Their
you know how they manage and how they tick and
how what makes them work and what they want the
game to look. Like whereas if you bring young guys
up the way they did The Blue jays did with
the With John, snyder that's one less thing those guys

(36:33):
had to worry about because they had, comfort they knew
what they knew what to expect from their. Manager and
it doesn't work for. Everybody don't get me. Wrong if
you have a Veteran leyden, team yeah you'd probably want
a veteran laden Manager Joe, tory, Right but if you
have young, guys why wouldn't you bring someone that's actually

(36:54):
had them before and understands how to make them. Go,
really you, know worked For Tom kelly in the in
eighty seven and ninety. ONE tk was a rookie in eighty.
Seven he had a young. Team guess, what they hung
two banners with. Him it has, worked AND i think
more teams should kind, of it's not a bad idea

(37:17):
if you have a young nucleus coming up to go
ahead and give that guy in the minor leagues a,
shot who who they have gained the trust of and
have watched them and helped them develop to where they've
seen him. Before because a lot of guys go up and.
Struggle all the young players go up with the big
leagues and struggle right. Away there's always that phone, call
well does he look? Different, well if the big league

(37:38):
manager has never really seen him play besides just spring,
training there's not a lot of data. There there's not
a lot of things to go back, to whereas if
you've had him from day one or roughly for a
couple of, years you have a Lot you have eight nine,
hundred one thousand at bats of seeing these kids play to, realize,
hey this is not what it looks like he's got a,
flaw he's got something he's doing. Wrong, yeah you, know

(38:01):
it's just a helpful reminder that it gives you another
set of eyes and they kind of it's got to
make the transition for those players so much. Easier, uh
it's so much more, comfortable you. Know great win by
the Blue, jays you, know two to, two one more
game in l a heading the game, five it's a big.
One it's a swing. Game to, me it's more it's more,
important like The Blue jays did what they wanted to.

(38:22):
Do Heard John schneyder talking about. IT i GOTTA i
gotta sell out to win one game to get this
thing back In. Toronto sounds. Good But game, five with
Mister yamamoto waiting in the, wings it's really more of
a win for The Blue jays than it is The.
Dodgers With yamamoto staring here in the, face you definitely

(38:43):
don't want to go down three to. Two SO i felt,
LIKE i feel Like game five was a, must a
must for the for The Blue, jays and, uh you
don't every want to go. Home they did their they
did their, job they got, back they got the series
back In. Toronto at least for one more. Game but
With yamamoto staring here in the, face that can't be

(39:04):
a good. Feeling So game five to me is more
of a must win for The Blue. Jays moving on
To game, FIVE i told a, friend if The Blue
jays score, five this is. Over the Blue jays will.
Win that's the beauty of a seven game. Series you
get to see the same starters a couple of, times
and it's the chess. Match whether you pitched well or

(39:24):
whether you didn't pitch that. Well what are you gonna?
Do what adjustments are you going to? Make you might
flip the script a little. Bit you have your, tendencies
you might go against them because the other team has
the same data that you. Do how are you gonna?
Flip how are you going to figure out a way
to get through the same? Lineup? Again to, me this
game was a huge Amount who can score? First who's

(39:44):
going to jump on each? Other to think about, it
you're facing a rookie And Tray, savage which he. Did.
OKAY i thought in game one great for a twenty
two year, Old BUT i think his stuff was better
against The yankees than it was In game, one and
he still did really. Well it's crazy to think this
guy has three regular season starts under his belt and

(40:07):
five postseason. Starts pretty crazy to think this kid was
in LOW a ball to start the season and he
Started game one of The World. Series for, you that's pretty.
Nuts that's pretty, crazy and that's advantage to. Them veteran
hitters don't like seeing guys for the first, time especially
guys that have that type of hype from the, delivery

(40:29):
from the release point to that, split to that, slider
to that. Angle it takes a while to get used.
To so it's curious to see about the. Adjustments, also
we talked about it before For game. Four the fatigue factor,
generally when you have a late night the next night
really doesn't affect. You it's it's it's the night after
that where the fatigue really sets. In curious to see

(40:52):
if that stays on at that that has anything to
do with. It but you, know, again The Blue jays
are just. RELENTLESS i mean they first, pitch you, know
first at, Bat Homer, snyder fastball up and, in you,
know great smell with a you, know two. PITCHES i
think two pitches into the game is one nothing flat

(41:13):
takes him deeper to follow it. Up now it's two,
nothing and you just have that feel of, like, man
The Blue jays are just not gonna be. Denied they're
not gonna be. Denied they just keep like you said
we talked, about they just keep, coming they keep. Coming
And Treya savage has looked like he's done this his whole.
Life it's it's incredible to have that type of command,

(41:39):
presence whatever you want to call, it uh To, savage
to Young. Savage, BASICALLY i mean to go up against
that lineup and to trust your stuff and to try
try to do too much and they end up striking out.
Twelve the thing that most impressed me the most he
didn't walk. Anybody he didn't walk anybody against that. Lineup

(42:03):
after watching What o'tani did a couple of nights, ago
What Freddy freeman did a couple nights, Ago Will smith's
been on. Fire keyk is one of the Best october
players to do that at in there never been To Dodgers,
stadium step on the, mountain just app through an absolute.
Gym but this is more about what The Blue jays
are doing than what The dodgers. Aren't in my, OPINION i,

(42:27):
said The Blue jays just, man they're a fun team to.
Watch you have to pull for. THEM i mean they dirtball,
reads base running, aggressive they score a, run they get,
momentum they try to steal. Second they just keep the
gas pedal. Down and that is crazy to. See at
the major league. Level it's baseball, away it's always, been

(42:48):
and they've gotten away from. It and now you finally
saw you're seeing an organization that's throwing it right back
into the in other team's. Faces and The dodgers were more.
Sure The dodgers have the tremendous analytical, department but they
have the players who can beat you multiple. Ways The
Blue jays are showing you how to you can win
games multiple. Ways they span this stat on THE tv

(43:11):
and it kind of ties into what we talked about
on most of these podcasts in the. Postseason we talked
about the importance of getting the leadoff hitter on and
how many times leadoff hitters score on a wall or
just getting on base leading off the inning The Blue
jays in the. Postseason this WAS i think in the
sixth inning of last night's game Of game five eighteen

(43:34):
average pre seventy one on base, percentage seven homers and
thirty one runs this. Postseason you want to know why
they're sitting in one game away from winning the whole.
Thing that right there they do an uncanny job of
that first at bat is. Tough they realize the importance of.

(43:55):
It that's what that's in a, nutshell that's. It in a.
Nutshell they find a way to get that guy. On you,
know take last, night take the game, five lead off,
homer two to, One flattery backs it. Up all of a,
sudden The savage is doing what he normally. Does, yep

(44:15):
he gave up a. Homer so what's two to? One what?
Happens kik hits a home run at the bottom of
the third to cut the lead in half to make
it two to. One we talked about this. Again guess
what immediately immediately The Blue jays varshow triple. Misplay you
can sell whatever you, want but you can't fault guys
for trying to be. Aggressive, yeah you like him to play,

(44:35):
smarter but you know what if he makes a diving play,
there you're you're you're cheering, Him but it's just the
it's the, constant relentless response that that The Blue jays
have every time The dodgers, score it seems like by
the time you come back and sit back down on the,
couch The blue just have a guy on. Base varshow
triples the sack fly to, center gets, it gets that

(44:58):
run immediately, back which now you, know gives the rookie his,
savage his cushion. Back i'm supposed, too are. Good we're still.
Good this goes all the way on Till i'm trying
to think the Seventh he, said the job that this
young kid did and what he has done in this
postseason is nothing short of. Epic you know this, again

(45:20):
this guy was in a ball to start the. Season
and you, know outside of lads, postseason if The Blue
jays pull this, off to, me he's THE mvp of
The World, series they'd. Be they. Don't they don't have
a shot without. Him he's Got he gets my vote
for envyp of The World series if they pull this.
Off and then you, know you get to the the seventh.

(45:43):
Inning guess what leadoff hitter gets on arger, singles starts
it off, magically all of a, sudden here they. Come
they end up putting whether they put two runs on
the board in the, seventh make it five to, one
and then do it. Again top of the, Eighth clement

(46:04):
singles start the. Inning just keep seeing these, guys the leadoff,
hitter they do they're they're just constantly on, base and
that's a good sign if you're an offense In. October
So i'm sure there's a lot of sleep on that
plane To toronto from both. Sides but you've got to

(46:26):
be feeling pretty damn. Good and for The Blue, jays
now can they control? It can they control their? EMOTIONS
i think both teams feel pretty. Good, honestly both teams had.
Chances you could say the eighteen inning game could have went.
Anyway looking, Back i'm looking At game. Three they don't
make all the, moves The Blue jays don't make all

(46:47):
the moves they. Made this thing might be. Over if
they don't pull three quarters of their offense out of
the game In game, three this might be. Done they
might have got they might have swept The dodgers at,
Home so there's NO i don't think there's obviously there's
zero fear factor from The Blue jays now coming. Home

(47:07):
can they harness? It can they harness it to pull off?
One just get? One of. Two dodger's got to be feeling.
Good they Got yamamoto on the mound Full restsaki hasn't thrown,
much so you, know you feel pretty good either. Way but,
man you gotta get one of the next. Two you're
feeling pretty good if you're A Blue jay. Fan so

(47:29):
this is gonna be. Interesting this is gonna be MUSTY
tv looking forward to could possibly be A Max schurzer game,
seven forty one years. Old it's pretty it's pretty pretty
crazy to think about, it and you think about you
get this thing to game. SEVEN i Know i'm kind
of looking ahead past game, six but you're looking at

(47:51):
a game that could Feature Max, Scherzer Clayton. Kershaw, Yeah
i'm A Moto. Snell it's. Savage it's crazy the depth
of what you could see if this thing goes. Seven
BUT i don't want to see this series, END i,
Said I'VE i do watch. Baseball, obviously not a ton

(48:16):
of The Blue jays before the postseason. Started couldn't really
put a face to a name from a box, Score
but damn they've earned a fan in. Me they do
a lot of, things, Right. Clement i'd take them on
every Team i've ever been. On i'll take ten of.
Them i'll take varshow all day, long they just. Barger

(48:39):
the list goes, On, Clement they're just a. Ballplayer they're
just baseball. Players and there's not too many times recently
in the past eight to ten years you could say
that they're a team full of baseball. Players and when
you're superstars do baseball players. Stuff you get this lad
running the bas, is scoring from, first digging, out importance of,

(49:00):
defense wanting to get, better become a factor with a
glove on his. Hand when your superstar players do grinder type,
stuff the rest have to. Follow when your superstar refuses
to go down, swinging he's gonna fight like hell with two,
strikes find a way to put the bat on the.

(49:22):
Ball trust what he, does the rest will. Follow it's,
amazing it's. Beautiful if you're a pure baseball, person you
absolutely love that these two teams made. It you might
not like The dodgers, payroll but that thrown. Aside, offensively
they have a lot of guys who like they're, superstars

(49:45):
but they do a lot of little. Things Freddy freeman
still's second base clutch as, hell will run if given the.
Opportunity Mookie betts will play anywhere you ask him. To
that's not. Normal Kick aronendez will play, anywhere and when
the games get, tighter he gets. Better Max, Munsey not
really just because it gives you a great at, Bat Tommy.

(50:06):
Edmond there are baseball players everywhere on the, Field Tasca,
hernandez great teammate. Everybody when's the last time you saw
a visiting player go home for the team he just,
left and the team that he just left gave him
a standing ovation in A world? Series like they're just
Will Smith, Kirk they're. Everywhere it's really neat to. See

(50:29):
the game of baseball needed these two teams like this
to play against each other and to give you the
entertainment they're giving. You and we haven't even talked About.
Otani he's must SEE. Tv but the other guys are
too if you like, Baseball because let's be, honest Us
Mere mortals aren't six five that can run a three

(50:50):
to nine to first and hit a ball from line
to line six hundred feet and throw the ball one
hundred miles an. Hour but a lot of us watching
this game can relate To kirk behind the plate for
The Blue jay can relate To. Clement really good baseball,
players good, instincts they're more like they're more like at regular,
people but they're exceptional what they. Do so this is

(51:10):
as bad as good as it. Gets the sad thing
is it's going to come to an end very pretty.
Quick but, man and, AGAIN i Guess i'm. PULLING i
played for The, DODGERS i coach for The, dodgers But
i'm A Blue jay fan right. Now, MAN i want
to See donnie get a. RING i really want to
See donnie win a. Ring he's done too much for

(51:31):
the game to go this long with that. One, okay
it would LIKE i. WOULD i. Would there's nothing More
i'd rather see Than donnie get to end up on
top one. Time and we talked about it on this.
Podcast if it's, fate, whatever you want to call, it, fake, coincidence, Whatever,
donnie they beat The yankees in THE. Alds obviously we

(51:52):
know he played for The yankees and he coached for The.
Yankees they beat The Seattle mariners in THE, Alcs donnie's
only playoff. Appearance The mariners beat, him and then they're
running into The dodgers in The World, series And donnie
managed and coached for The dodgers for quite a long.
Time The Redemption tours one game away from getting that

(52:13):
man in a, ring and, MAN i hope they pull it.
Off that's gonna wrap up this episode Of The. Dugout
check me out wherever you've listened to your favorite, Podcast, Apple,
spotify check me out On, Instagram twitter. Again people love
the interaction On, twitter you, know you stay away from the,
bots but for the most, part LIKE i love interacting
with baseball, fans love to ask, questions you. Know hats

(52:37):
off to The Blue jay fans last night for filling
me in on some stuff on some guys THAT i
want to know more, of and thank you for. THAT
i enjoy the, BANTER i enjoy the. KNOWLEDGE i, enjoyed you,
know talking through the game and listening to other people's. Opinions,
so LIKE i, said hit me, Up i'll be Watching
game six and seven until, then take care and we'll

(52:59):
talk to you. Soon