November 15, 2024 • 39 mins
Danny Kanell joins Doug to talk all things College Football, including the latest 12-team playoff rankings, the state of College Football, Florida State's struggles, and so much more!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome back to the Dugout Podcast. I'm your host, Dougnan Kavich.
I have a longtime friend, go way back to his
Westminster Academy days. He was my only high school sack,
Danny Canal. He was a three sport athlete in high school.
Got drafted twice in baseball, once by the Brewers in
high school once and by the Yankees in college. Even
(00:27):
dabbled with the New York Bears. You know to me.
He was thrown into the fire at Florida State, didn't
get a chance to red shirt, backed up a Heisman
Trophy winner, held the snap that won national championship for
US in ninety three, played a ton of as a
true freshman, which never really happened back then, got into
a lot of games early was the orchestrator of the
(00:48):
choke at Dope down thirty one to three for all
of you who don't remember, down thirty one three and
the fourth quarter, came back and tied against our hated
rival of the Florida Gators. He is part of XM
Serious Radio, Dusty and Danny in the Morning. I want
to welcome Danny Cannell to the show. Also want to
say this what am mourning for you? You go from
talking to Dan Mullin on a nationally syndicated radio show
(01:11):
to this dipshit on a to the Dugout podcast. So
welcome Danny. Thanks for coming on and looking forward to this.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I love it, man, We're gonna have a great time.
It's always catching up with you. I'll hold you up
there to any guest we've ever had as being a legend,
both from Major League Baseball, from Florida State and even
back to Westminster Christian. Man, it's great to be on
with you. And you know, getting a sack against me
is not that special because I'm obviously not the fastest
(01:40):
guy in the world. So if we had a forty,
if we raced, it'd probably be pretty neck and neck.
It probably wasn't the prettiest sack. I'm just gonna go
out on a limb and say that. And I do
think that we ended up winning that game, But then
you guys got the best of us in baseball.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I think we won that game, but I'll leave it alone.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
We'll have to go check directly.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Like I said, I the joke of it was I
wasn't allowed to play defense and we had a couple
of guys get hurt and I only played like two
series and I remember coming up feel going what is
so hard about this defensive stuff. I'm like, this guy's
going to Florida State, he's a five star. I'm like,
if I chase him down, you guys suck, Like that's
the problem. So I got instant street credit out of
the shoot from that and never played defense again, So
(02:22):
I kind of I keep that in my back pocket,
especially for a guy that went on to play six
years in the NFL. So Danny want to come up.
I know you come up with your own top twelve,
and I love the stance you have as far as
you know the bias. I'm not a believer in the
preseason polls just because you get you know, teams get
a lot of credit for what they've done in the
(02:42):
past and it's not what you see right now. And
I think you see that a lot in coaching today.
There's analytics, but they don't really do what their eyes
tell them to do at that given moment. So you know,
I'm not going to beat a dead horse with that,
but I want to hear your explanation of how you
feel against the four point team. Playoff and the twelve
teams playoffs.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So yeah, so I'm college football. I'm so passionate about it,
and I love the debates that we have, and we've
got the best fans in the world. I mean, I
think the passion of college football fans is unrivaled. Like
NFL fans are good, they're just not the same. I
don't know. Major League Baseball has good fans, but just
not the same level of passion and interest. So it's
(03:25):
always been something that's fascinated me. Now with somebody who
grew up and played in an era when you had
a bunch of sports writers sit around and vote on
a national champion, and half the time you had two
national champions, and sometimes you had national champions who you know,
hardly played anybody. It just it made zero sense. But
(03:46):
of course I benefited from that. Right we won a
national title in ninety three. We lost to Notre Dame,
who then lost to Boston College, which got us back
in another opportunity. And yet I talked to Notre Dame
fans and I've seen Lou Hull and he's still bothered
by the fact that they beat us, where a one
loss team won their bowl game and they didn't get
any recognition, and I'm like, sorry, that was what happened
(04:08):
at the time. So I knew it was flawed and
I have a ring to show for it, which was great.
But it's always been like this beautifully flawed sport that
how can we get it better? And then of course
we had the BCS, which wasn't a whole lot better,
but at least you had a national championship game that
was sort of stand alone. Then they realized, we have
(04:29):
over one hundred and thirty teams that play at the
FBS level and we're only letting two play for the
national title. So they had the genius idea to go
double down and make it four out of one hundred
and thirty. And it's like, okay, that's better, but there's
still teams that get screwed. And then, of course last
(04:50):
year we saw our Alma mater get probably the worst
shaft in the history of the four team playoff by
getting left out just because your quarterback was hurt. In
a team sport where you're supposed to be able to
everybody raises their level of play and we don't have
to rehash that all out. So then we go to twelve,
and I love twelve. And my stance has always been
Doug that you know, four was better than two, but
(05:13):
it was still flawed. And I have the same stance.
I think twelve is better than four because it gives
more teams opportunities. They can't have so much bias. You
can't really corner the market and just allow certain conferences,
and you can't have conference champions not even have a
chance to play for the national championship. So twelve is
definitely better. But what is bothering me, and we've seen
(05:35):
this in Baseball two, which bothers me again, is you
get so we have twelve teams, and the conversation is
already starting, and it starts at the beginning of the year.
How many SEC teams are going to get in, you know?
And it started in the four team really the first
when I was out of ESPN, I noticed this and
it bothered me. It's like, can the SEC get two
out of the four? I'm like, why are we even
(05:56):
going there? But they plant the seed to try to
just make it become a reality. And now, especially the
last two weeks, as you've had more SEC teams losing,
it's like, oh, they're all really good. Can we get
five teams from the SEC? Can we get six teams
from the SEC? Well, yeah, it's gonna help you win
(06:17):
a national title if you have half the teams in
the field, which is something we've seen in Omaha recently,
and they really do a great job of campaigning, politicking,
selling the history, selling tradition, selling draft picks, and then
it becomes this self fulfilling prophecy. But then it makes
the path to get a national champion easier. And then
(06:39):
they're like, hey, we have so many national champions, Well yeah,
because you get more teams to get a crack at it.
So that's like in short where I am with the
twelve team playoff, it's better. Still incredibly flawed. I think
you're going to see some of those flaws. The good
news is this current formula is only two years this
year and next, and then they're going to revisit, which
I think they'll come to their senses and try to
(07:00):
pick some of the flaws that are in it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Right now, I'm sure you can throw in the two
thousand hurricanes into that BCS mix that they beat us,
and then you know, we end up playing Oklahoma and
the national championship came and you know, yeah, we've talked
about this off the air, but as much as Arma
Mater got screwed last year, you know you can have
that same token. As bad as we got supposedly the snub,
(07:21):
Georgia got snubbed even worse. They lost a one score
game on a neutral site, and they lost one game
in three years. And if you were Vegas and you
match those Georgia up against those four teams in the
top four, pretty sure George is favored in all those games.
So and I also don't believe in that everybody's still
talking about the snub and all this stuff, like, get
(07:42):
over it, it's over, it's done with move on. You
brought up you know the money thing too. It's like,
if you SEC wants all these teams in there, once
you share some of the share some of the SEC
money with the rest of us, and then we'll get
a fair then we get a fair shot. So I mean,
I get it, I understand it, I got I just
it's so frustrating to watch the build of you know
what I mean. Like take Louisville this year. Louis was
(08:03):
a really good squad and you take that Miami game
was epic, and that offense can score on anybody, and
the Miami game was epic. I mean, it's just it's
you keep going on and you're like this, I'd like
to see that team run up against, you know, an
SCC squad LSU. I always say, is always what Florida
State did LSU the last last two years, not this year,
but the prior to years. We pretty much manhandled them
(08:24):
and that we did what sc SCC teams are supposed
to do to ACC teams. But we did it. We
flipped it right. You go. One more better is I
think Ole Miss and Penn State are they get ranked
every year and they don't beat anybody. Old Miss finally
beat somebody recently, but Penn State beats who they're supposed to.
And then every year they run up to a team
(08:45):
that's equally as good or a little bit better. They
don't show up, but they always get credit for it.
And I thought the Bowl teams did a great job
last year of playing against each other because one of
them had to win.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
The program that's getting screwed the most this year is
that SCBA. Well, Indiana's finally get in the recosition. Here's
What concerns me about Indiana is because we've already heard
this from some of the you know, bigger voices, is, oh, well,
if they lose to Ohio State, they're out. Well why
do they have this barometer of they can only lose
one game? But yet I've already heard and Georgie's only
(09:16):
lost two games, but oh well, if Georgia loses to Tennessee,
that'd be three really tough losses and we you know,
we can't keep them out. They you know, they've historically
they've been great. Well so what like past history, Yes,
it's great, and they have a tradition. What if they're
just not as good this year? Like, why all of
a sudden do we have to give them a pass?
Indiana was having this unbelievable season and it should be celebrated.
(09:36):
Why are they held to this different standard? Well, it's
because people don't want to believe in them, or they
weren't in the preseason top twenty five and their prediction
was four and a half wins. So a lot of
people don't want to admit that they might have been
wrong in Indiana, where I'm like, maybe you're all wrong
about Georgia, Like we'll see how it plays out, and
I think Georgia wins against Tennessee and it takes care
of itself. But Indiana has to fight this perception battle
(10:00):
where if you start the season outside the top twenty
five and you're not the preseason polls, or if you're
not a traditional blue blood, you have to win and
prove it to people like twice as much. It's not
that dissimilar to a draft picks. But if you're a
first round draft pick in Major League Baseball or the NFL,
you get so many passes, oh, well, he's a rookie.
(10:21):
That's the way he's a rookie. But if you get
thrust into a rookie season as a sixth or seventh rounder,
this guy he was never going to be any good,
so you probably get cut. You never get an opportunity.
But if you're a first round, top ten pick, you'll
get either more opportunity with the team you're on, but
as soon as you get cut, another team snaps you
up and they're like, we can fix this guy. It's
(10:41):
very similar like if the perception of you is you
were strong and you were a blue blood, or you
were a number one overall pick, you get more forgiveness,
but if you're not, you have to prove it over
and over and over again, which keeps you down. Like
it keeps it makes it harder. So in the end,
is that team. SMU is that team. They're ranked fourteenth,
(11:03):
and if you hold their resume next to Penn State
or Texas who are three and four, it's ridiculous that
SMU is not in that vicinity. And if you wanted
to say, well, SMU's resume isn't that great, fine, then
keep Penn State and Texas down next to SMU because
they should be in the same tier of teams and
yet SMU is eleven spots lower than Texas. It doesn't
(11:25):
make any sense other than they have the longhorns on
their helmet. You know they were in the playoffs last year.
Because they haven't beaten anybody of consequence, Michigan's not that good,
Oklahoma's not that good. Yes, they boat raced Florida this
past weekend, but they also got beat really bad versus Georgia. Like,
they didn't look great in that game.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So Doctor Pepper frustrating, They got Doctor Pepper commercials exactly.
That helps take the name, take the title off the
resume and then and then rank them right like they
should have to do that.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Blind resumes would be awesome. Uh. The only thing is
so here's a little, dirty, little secret. I was actually
gonna do a video on this because we use power
rankings and analytics. So a lot of the power ranking
systems they use five years typically, that's what they use,
five years of data, and so they take into consount
(12:17):
can they take into consideration recruiting rankings from five years,
They use records win loss records from five years. They
use returning production, which is important. All these things are good,
but with the amount of shakeup that we have seen
in college football, with the portal and with NIL, it's
a completely different landscape. So, yes, while you're Georgia and
(12:39):
you were dominant a few years ago and winning back
to back championships, some of your talent has departed. Your
recruiting rankings don't matter as much because they've left as well.
But you still get that bump in the power rankings
that really don't matter as much. That's why we've seen
teams like Bama get beat by Vanderbilt, Notre Dame get
beat by note, Northern Illinois, Kentucky, beats old Miss. There's
(13:03):
just more parody than there's ever been. And I think
until we get five years of current data in this new,
opened up free market that we call college football, they're
getting a huge bump from years when you could dominate
because you had that much more talent than everybody else.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
I equated to like the NCAA basketball and no time
at any other time in NCAA basketball history can a
sixteen bea to one. You get a sixteen seed that's
got four or five year guys and played their system
against you know, could be four potential first rounders. That
system can beat a number one more. It never happened before.
You get boat raced by eighty, right, you know it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Now we've seen it happen twice, and we've seen fifteen's
knockoff two. There's way you're one hundred percent right, it's
like and yet people have a hard time grasping it
because it's what we've known for so long. But it's changing.
It's just the whole thing is changing right in front
of our eyes.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
That ties into a question I had I had written
down was about like, how has have in your mind
ANIL transfer portal changed everything? And use answered it. You know,
it's like it's funny. How like when you go on
social media, I mean you get it worse than I
do because you talk football every day. But like our ant,
everybody's come back to us as, oh, you're one and nine,
like I'm not talking, I'm allowed to talk about everything
(14:20):
and everything else. Stop throwing the record. I get it,
I see it, trust me. I'm not happy about it.
But why is it? Oh my gosh, it's death to
Florida State. Because we're one, it will be two and
ten or what might be one and eleven the same token.
We can turn this around and be seven and five
next year. Change up two. You give us kim Ward, right,
(14:42):
we've won, we win eight more games. And if you
take Kim Ward away from Miami and Miami fans don't
want to hear this. They've lose five games, maybe more. Absolutely,
this thing can change so fast, so quick, and just
because Florida State example, Norvell did it with the portal.
He built on it a couple of years, had a
your quarterback who kind of got around the system, and
(15:03):
all of a sudden you have the perfect storm and
it disappeared fast. But it all goes back to the nil.
In my opinion, the transfer portal has taken away what
made Flora State great in the nineties and Miami you
were three four deep with number one picks. Yep, those
guys aren't gonna stick around anymore. So your depth is gone.
(15:23):
You start taking away depth in college football, that's where
parody starts to creep in. And that's to me, why
you see and why to me now more than ever,
those preseason polls should be thrown out the window.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Totally agree, and you have nailed it on why the
parody is here, you know, and it's in for the
In the last ten to fifteen years, it's been Alabama,
it's been Ohio State, it's been the usual suspects that
have been in the top five every single year, and
even pre nil. I mean, let's be honest, those programs
(15:55):
were paying their players under the table and they were
still able to get all these players well once you
made it league the programs that we're trying to do
it right. Vanderbilt is a really good example high academic institution.
They don't it's like above them to ever try to cheat,
which is great, Like it's good. I appreciate that they
try to do it the right way. All of a sudden,
they're able to spend a little bit of money. They're
able to get in a player like we've seen in
(16:17):
Diego Pavia a transfer from New Mexico State. They also
took a little bit of an academic you know, risk
that they maybe not take. But like the whole landscape
has changed, They've got a couple other transfers. All of
a sudden they can compete. But it happens because, like
you said, a player who normally could get money under
the table to make say, let's just say one hundred
(16:38):
grand to go to Alabama, Ohio, State, Florida, wherever it is,
and he'd be like content sitting on the bench. I'm
getting paid one hundred. Now he can go to a
second level or a mid tier sec ACC team, make
the same hundred maybe even a little bit more, and
he gets to play right away, and he gets he
doesn't have to wait around. So all of that talent
(16:59):
is just spreading out, which I think is great. Like
I even as somebody who was able to be on
one of those teams that had the advantage, I love
that we have more parody, that we have more upsets,
and we have more teams that really have an opportunity
to win the title, because it's like in the last
twenty years, you really could like circle In the beginning
of the year, ten teams, it was like that's probably
(17:19):
about it. Who could win it this year? And especially
now what we've seen play out this season. I think
even now at this point in the season, like I
like Oregon and Ohio State, but I could also go
down to an old miss you go down maybe Miami
if cam Ward gets hot, Like you can go fifteen
to twenty deep and say any one of those teams
could get it if they get hot at the right time.
(17:40):
There's not that much of a gap. So I love
that we've seen this thing kind of open up and
give more people the opportunity to win it.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
It's funny you say that because baseball who's hot at
the right time? I mean you take you said it yourself, Miami,
you take cam Ward? Like Ali, you said ten teams,
I would say, you could circle free right right, there's
no shot. Well you can do that where at any
given Saturday. You know, there's a lot of teams. It's
(18:07):
not as an upset anymore, not really. I mean South
Florida had Bama beaten three and a half quarters. Yeah, granted,
strength and probably depth had something to do with that, right,
because they had a little more depth in South Florida
finished the game anyway. I just it's I'm not a
to me, it's the it's become the inmates are running
the asylum type thing. I feel bad for coaching. It
(18:29):
really is tough because how do you develop. There's a
difference between developing for the future and having to win
games right now. And I think that's where we're in
that transition phase where it's you know, you want to
develop and keep guys there and keep guys happy, but
you have to play them. And it's a tough gig.
I mean, when you run Nick Saban out of coaching,
(18:49):
we got problems. I know, Like that's there's something to
be said about that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It's happening all over the place. Think about in football,
Hardball goes to the NFL, Saban retires, basketball coach k retires,
Jim Beheim retires, Tony Bennett Virginia, who's still in his fifties,
he retires, and they all cite the same thing. It's
almost impossible to coach right now and it's so that's
why I'm very curious to know what you think about this,
(19:14):
because you know, I hate what we've seen in young athletes,
and I think it starts even earlier than college. I
think it starts in youth sports. I think it little
league in all sports and girls sports. To see it
in soccer, the sports, because I have all daughters, but
I've seen it kind of come in where you see
parents they try to you know, if your kid doesn't start, well,
(19:38):
we got to find another team. Got we gotta find
a team with the play on. Or if your kid's
a pretty good player on an okay team and your
team's like, you know, ten and five, well we got
to get my team. My kid's got to go to
a winner. So let's instead of lifting everybody around them
and being like it's okay to learn how to lose. No,
my kid has to win a championship. So let's go
(19:58):
play for this team that's maybe an hour away. But
he can be undefeated and win a national championship when
he's twelve, Like what are we doing? And then it
kind of creeps in. This mindset comes in where Dylan
Rool is playing quarterback in Nebraska, right now and he's
struggling a little bit. He played at four different high schools,
four Like what are we doing? What about Like, from
(20:20):
let alone the football aspect of it and the development
or lack thereof, what about the character development and building
relationships and friendships? Like I still talk to some of
my high school buddies that we played together and we
won championships in some sports, we lost them in others
we were you know, like we we built friendships that
laughed a lifetime. What about that? And like, I wouldn't
(20:42):
be surprised if Dylan Royola transfers again because that's what
he's used to. Nebraska's not good. I need better talent
around me. You know, it's never me. And it's not
to rip on him because it's really a mentality that's
set in across college football. There was a kid at
Boston College who just got benched and he's he quit,
He left his team and they still have three games
left to play and he walks out and the coach
(21:03):
says he needed a few days. What are you talking about?
He needed a few days. I would to tell him, like,
go ahead and just pack it up and leave, which
he's going to do it was reported last night that
he's gonna hit the portal, like of course he is,
because it wasn't going great. I and to your like
for the feeling bad about coaches, and no one ever
feels bad for the coaches because I always reference, well,
they make so much money, which yes, they make a
(21:25):
boatload of money and they know it. But it's almost impossible.
How do you like? I was chewed out like a lot,
you know, but when I look back on it, like
Mark Rick, he chewed me out a couple times, not
a lot, because I liked the way he coached me.
But when he did, I was probably lacking at practice
because I was out the night before and I probably
(21:45):
needed it, you know. I missed. I missed an assignment
because I wasn't in my playbook and I didn't I
needed it, Like I was like, yeah, I deserved it.
I didn't get my feelings hurt or when I got benched.
I got benched after the Miami game first time we
played them through three picks. I didn't quit. I thought
I probably wanted to. But I called my dad and
he's like, are you like, get back, go win your
(22:06):
job again? Like fight through it. There's no like it's
just I just I don't. It blows my mind that
and the players have a lot of power and freedom
to move, so they do.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
It's just that's my biggest problems that they've given the
players too much power. And I again, all those things
you said are absolutely right. I use the line all
the time coaching playing, don't like it, play better, and
that it's simple, and it's just no, you're not gonna
go somewhere else. You're gonna fight for your job. It's
called accountability, right. And I always say players get better
(22:36):
in the dark, not in front of coaches, get better
in the dark. And that's something that you have, this
fear factory because as a coach, I'm finishing my degree
right now to try to get back into coaching college baseball.
And I am i gonna get a you know, power
to conference job. Maybe maybe not, but I'm not gonna
walk in and go to Tennessee. So I'm gonna have
(22:56):
to take over a mid major. And my whole thing
is gonna be like where do you want to play? Well, okay,
I want to play at Florida State, Tennessee, whatever, South Carolina.
I'm like, all right, I'll help you get there, but
come here first. I'll develop you, and when I think
you're ready, we'll move right. But that's the scary part.
It's like, but when you start to get great players
(23:17):
and they're not happy. I don't have a problem with
the guys leaving to better their situation. I have a
problem with guys that announced they're going to the portal
as a free agent, right and then they try to upright,
and then they come back to the same place and
then they play like crap, like some of our guys
(23:38):
that are wearing the Garden gold right now, that's what's happening.
And it's like, I try to quite the take fans
I'm going If you think about it, if you had
if every player in a professional sport hockey, football, basketball, baseball,
became a free agent end of the year, this would
be an epic shit show of no return. And that's
basically what you have in college sports right now. Right
(23:59):
It possible to teach, it's impossible to coach, it's impossible
to hold somebody accountable. Saying, you know, Nick Saban, I
hear what you're saying, right that the best thing to
do is put them on the bench. Not always. Now,
if that's the case, then why do you walk away
rant you've got a billion dollars and you don't need
to do it anymore. But that's that's exactly the case.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Right, And like you, like you said, I think there's
a couple of situations where I look at it and
I'm okay with it. By probably ten years ago. As
soon as ten years ago, I used to hate transfer
portal guys like why are you quitter? You know, even
some quarterbacks that wouldn't stick around and wait, And I've
kind I've grown, I've evolved, and I've looked at it
and been like, you know what if I if you're
sitting behind somebody who's really good and probably a first
(24:39):
round draft pick, and you're the same class, and why
wouldn't you go somewhere else? Like it does make sense
to go find an opportunity. If you were a group
of five player or an FCS player who was bawling out,
you would do the same thing the coach would, right,
because that's what you kind of have to do to
work your way up the ladder. And I do think
college football is organically evolving into a minor league baseball
system where it's single a double a triple A and
(25:01):
it's group of five, then maybe it's acc Big twelve,
and then sec big ten are kind of the triple
A right before you get to the big leagues. And
I think what you're already seeing. Yes, you're seeing players
brought up, guys like Brandon Fisk at Florida State, Jared Verse,
they play at smaller schools, they come, get the opportunity,
then they go to the NFL. You're also seeing it
the other way. You're seeing a lot of power five
(25:21):
to fives to our quarterbacks aren't good enough go down
and start going down the rank. So it's kind of
organically evolving. But I also wanted to hit on because
I think what's happening at Florida State with the one
to nine season, with the talent they had, and you know,
the transfer portal guys that they had. I don't I
think we probably will be the worst case of it.
But I do think you'll see teams. And this was
(25:43):
a concern of mine in this era, was when you
get all these portal guys who kind of hired guns.
These free agents that come in, they're they're not invested
in going to battle with guys next to them. Like
guys that they came in and you saw this in baseball,
come in with a class as freshman, and there's a
bond and you kind of all go through the same struggles.
(26:05):
You have to go through Matt drills, you have to
go through training camp, and you're all in it together
and you'll struggle early and then you go together and
you grow as sophomores and get a little bit more experience,
get your first start, and you're excited. You have these
bonds that are deep, like bigger than the game bonds
where man, I want to fight for that guy, I
want to play with him, and you start in. The
(26:25):
other bond you build is to your university, like you're man,
I went here to be part of something special, and
I want to be part of a Florida State legacy,
and I want to try to bring a championship to
the school that I chose. Well, when you don't have
those bonds the minute and you come there either, probably
most most of these guys came to Florida State to
one primarily get paid and probably get to the NFL,
(26:47):
and they thought it would help them and then maybe
a championship was on that radar. Well, the minute that first,
that championship goal falls short, Like, you're not that invested,
so you start showing up, kind of going through the motions.
And the minute you do that, you can probably still
give good effort. But if you're not invested, if you're
not willing to go to battle every single week, you're
(27:09):
gonna get exposed. And I think that happened, and I
think I thought they were fighting pretty hard the last
two weeks. It's hard to make an argument there was
much effort. They just kind of start going through the motions.
And this is that. The realization for me when I
went to the NFL was when we lost a game
at Florida State. It was a morgue in the locker
room at practice. It was bleak. Everybody was pissed off,
(27:31):
and you didn't like, we want to get back on
the field. NFL first loss. I remember coming in. I
was really upset. I wouldn't even start, but I was like,
you know, I just want to make sure I looked
like it hurt, even though it was like all right.
But then the guys come up and they're like, hey,
where are we going tonight? You know, And then all
of a sudden there's some music on in the locker room,
like wait a second, we just lost a game and
they're like nah, like no one really cared because the
(27:51):
check still cleared, you know. And that mentality is creeping
into college football all across the board. And I think
with teams that fall short of a goal like Florida
State did, there are gonna be a lot more examples
of these teams with massive expectations that have talented rosters,
but the minute they lose two or three games, quickly
it's going to be four or five and six games. Again.
(28:13):
I don't know if it'll ever be as bad as
what Florida State has seen, but I think you're gonna
see teams kind of derail more often than we've ever
seen in college football.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It goes back to I always go back to I
kept writing down alpha male like the team. When you
can do that when you have alpha male's on your roster.
Jordan Travis right, been there, he's invested. When their voice
is louder than the newcomers, you usually have to buy
in right verse loud at practice. Second year guy right,
(28:42):
he came with an edge. I've said this. I've said
this numerous times on other shows when you transfer portal up,
there's all there's still chasing the rabbit when you when
you transfer portal down or sideways, you're probably a problem
child because you didn't like competition pretty much. Shaven said
that on game and not in those words, but that's
exactly what happens. You're getting everybody else's prima donna. That
(29:05):
the travel ball kid that transfers fourteen times, who doesn't
want to get punched in the mouth. Whereas verse right,
Albany came up started seeing it, you're not coming here
and reckon what we already do and that or it
goes back to when you have too many of them,
that's a bad that's a bad seed. And it all
goes back to, like I said, it goes back to
alpha males. If you have an alpha male who's louder,
(29:25):
it goes it ties into Minor League Baseball's playoff system.
And I use this many. I use the word finish
a lot with my guys. I was like, I've been
a player at this level, I've been a coach and
a manager's level. Be louder than the ones that want
to go home. You're going to go home in ten days,
whether we win or lose it, you might as well
put you, you know, but you have to be louder
(29:46):
than the ones that want to go home. And if
you have to drag them with you, drag them with you.
And that's the idea, and I trust me, I get it. Football.
You don't want to go bumping heads of people when
they're not invested. And the part that kills me is
they want to go to the next level. You're putting
this crap on tape, right And the number one thing
that like you can say about fisk Verse, they've got
(30:07):
high motors. I kept I text all my Dolphin fan friends.
We missed by one pick getting that, and I notice,
respect to Chop Robinson, but like you're a Penn State
guy and it's probably not gonna work, but you're looking
at this guy. I'm like, watch those two up front.
Those two never stop and they've been doing that since
day like day one together. They were excited to work together.
(30:30):
They go back. There's a different that motor means more
than I goes ties into the stars. I don't want
to hear about another damn five star just because it's
a recruiting thing. You can't put a star on a
guy's motor. You can't put a star on a guy's heart.
You can't put a guy florest date just got those
two three star corners. Secondary fine, they've got something to prove. Like,
(30:52):
if you're willing to buy into my system, I don't
need five star guys. Trust me, We're gonna bludgeon you
to death. And that's what That's what I thought we
were getting to. And I'm not sold on what is next.
I'm not sold on fire everybody, because it's gonna take
more than sixty eight million. It's gonna take one hundred
and fifty. Right unless the Spanks girl's gonna come out
and write a huge check for us. I don't know
(31:13):
if that's gonna work, right. But that's kind of goes
into my next question. If you were Mike Alferd, how
would you fix this?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So I was just in Tally, I would I spoke
to the Tallahassee Quarterback Club, and uh, they were asking
me all these questions and so, like, the first thing
is you start, like Michael Alferd, what does he do
with Mike Norvell? He doesn't have a choice because of
what you mentioned, the sixty five million dollars buyout, Like
I would sell. And you've seen the Gators do this
with Napier because they just gave him an endorsement. Like
(31:42):
and because you'd probably have the fundraise, you'd have to
do a massive fundraiser or go to your biggest boosters
and say, hey, I need ten million, I need five
million from you, ten million from you. Let's collect the money.
Let's figure out a way to get rid of Norvel.
Which I'm not advocating. I'm just saying, even if you
wanted to, that's what you would have to do. Supposed
to that, say, you know what, you know what wins
(32:03):
like coaching is really important, but the players are the
most important commodity. Let's do a fundraiser and do what
Ohio State did you know? They went out they got
Chip Kelly to be the offensive coordinator, and they spent
twenty million dollars on their roster, and they didn't bring
in a ton of guys. They just got some really
good guys. They got a good quarterback who had won
a Big twelve championship at Kansas State, and Will Howard.
(32:23):
They went out and get Caleb Downs, who's probably the
best safety. And guess what Alabama's problem has been this
year their secondary. They get him to be there, They
get a running back from old Miss, they get the
center from Alabama player who had been a multi year starter. Like,
they get experienced guys, added a couple other pieces, kept
the guys that they really liked on their team. Twenty
million dollars was the number, Like, that's what I would say,
(32:45):
but so like that's the starter. Is what I would
sell the boosters on is we need to And what's
really hard is that you've already had to do this.
You probably did it last year saying we're close, we
need this push, and then you failed, right, Like, so
you want me to come back? And that's this again.
An aspect of this system that I hate is asking
fans who already spends so much money to travel to
(33:05):
Tally to support the team, to buy season tickets. Like
I hate that we have to go there and ask him.
It's just the reality of what it is. So that's
like one push that's maybe hard. The coordinator jobs, I
think this will be because you know, you get asked
about all the typical names like Dan Mullen, who we
were talking about before the show. I don't think Dan
(33:25):
Mullen would take Florida State's offensive coordinator job in a
million years. In fact, when he was on this morning,
he kind of joked and he said, as their head
job available, because I think he might be interested in that,
but he does and he said, you know, they're not
going to have an opening because I think he even
realized that. But yeah, that would be a great name,
I think if you're Norvel. And so here's the other
tricky aspect to this, for either defense or offense. You've
(33:48):
got to find somebody who is willing to take on
the risk of going to place which doesn't have a
lot of stability, you know, because you're coming off of
one or two win season and everyone's gonna watch every
single list. Next year, we'll have Mike Norvel top of
the hot seat, even though maybe that's not even a
reality because the buyout' is probably gon dound fifty five.
He's still probably there and you can do your due
(34:10):
diligence and look at it all right, it's probably two years.
But so that's gonna turn off a lot of coaches,
which I say, good, I don't want that guy, like
I don't want a guy who's looking at things nervous, like,
oh what if I don't do well, I want a
guy that comes in and says, no, I'm gonna bring
this program back. I don't even care if the guy
says I want to be a head coach one day,
I'm gonna crush it and leave in two years. That's
(34:31):
the mentality I would want, is I'm gonna come do
so well and help this program turn around so much
that I'm gonna go parlay it and do the next,
you know, head coaching gig. And I'm gonna wait there
because I believe in myself that I'm gonna wait till
the best coaching gig comes available. So that's probably the
big thing. The thing that was intriguing to me, Doug
that I kind of liked was I did see some
NFL you know, and I don't even know if I
(34:53):
saw names specifically, but I saw the NFL you know,
tree like going to that angle. Today's player is more
NFL like. So I've loved that aspect. I love the
concepts that they're running in the NFL. I think you've
seen other examples of it. Washington is overachieving. This year.
They brought in Pete Carroll's son, Brendan Carroll to run
(35:13):
the offense. They brought Belichick's son Steve to run the defense,
and they're actually overachieving this year than people thought they would.
So I do like like exploring all avenues.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
This product in college football is more. This product in
college football is more NFL than it's ever been. So
why can't we whether it's a front office guy, right,
you're dealing with the same things that the NFL paid
players are dealing with now, salaries, whatever it is, that
dynamic has never been more prevalent in college force. You
need more pro people that have dealt with this before.
(35:48):
Phillip Bryant right, Boston College. You can't tell me that
set by his first game that not to say the
guy before didn't do a fantastic job, but that team
had a business like man mentality coming to Tallahassee that
I haven't seen this since I've been since I think
Matt Ryan was there. Like this team came in like
(36:08):
this is or this is just a standard quot, this
is what we do. We're gonna curves off you and
then just walk out, high five, shake hands and get out.
And then you can't tell me that that didn't have
like that had an NFL feel to it and a
look to it that they haven't had before.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You know. The other thing I think will be interesting
because the defensive coordinator will be easy higher relative to
who's in control, like it's your defense, run the defense.
The offense could be tricky because Mike Norvell, who has
been the play caller off and on, he might still
want to be a part of it. But that's one
where if you're Michael Alford and you have a great candidate,
you have to say to Mike, like, hey, this is
(36:42):
what needs to happen. But then is there an awkward dynamic?
Do you see a tug and pull? I think Norvelle
and I like him a lot like I do. I've
gotten to know him pretty well. I want him to win.
I love like this is both the love and I
hate because I love that I can see on his
face how much it hurts him, Like physically he looks
like is taxing him, and I hate that for him.
But I also think it shows me somebody who's a
(37:04):
competitor and wants to win and wants to fight through it.
But like, that's that conversation you have to have, is
we have this guy wants to come here, but he
wants complete control. I think you got to, like say,
you got to give it to him, you know, And
I think that's what Mike Norvell probably in self reflection,
I think he could really do a good job then
being the leader, be in the face of the program,
(37:24):
being more of a delegator. It's still being hands on
and being a part of the offense, but saying this
is completely yours, this is your offense. You do what
you want to do. I'll be the head coach.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
It's really hard to do it all. And I think
some coaches, there are a few that have had success,
but it's really hard. And maybe that's a small part
of why this thing, you know, is kind of coming
off the rails a little bit. I think he could
do Mike Norvell a lot of good to have him
just kind of sit back and be the authority figure,
the head coach and let the offense and defense do
(37:54):
their thing. Manage those guys, you know, manage what they're
doing aboute coach them week to week, help them make
the game plan. But on game day, this is yours,
this is yours. Let's go to work.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, it's funny you said, I always like the Jimbo
Fisher did it at an m right. I mean that
he was he was he was like the guru of
play calling for how many years? So, and it always
goes back to, like you talk about Norvell's face. I
always said this, Sam Palazzo, coach third was a manager
for the Orioles. I had him as an infill court
and a great guy, tremendous coach. He's like, he always
(38:28):
told me to take a picture of your face day
one of the season, and then take a picture the
last day of the season. He goes, you're gonna look
like you're ninety four years old at the end of
a time and year. So every time I think of that,
I think of like, look at Norvel's face on the
side of and I'm like, he looked like someone whos
ran his dog over, Like come on, man, like I
get it, like I go. I looked at it the
(38:48):
second week ago. Han, he's seeing ghosts like he's seeing
like this is he is someone punched him in the
stomach and he doesn't know how to react because he
can't believe what he's watching. I know, you got to
get out here, Danny. I appreciate it. I'll do this again.
I love this as far as getting to banter with
you is always priceless. From the days of sitting at
the table at one O four to hold mccam quorder
(39:11):
in Hawaii on the beach, I still got that picture
that's coming out, so.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
That's what I want. I'm definitely coming back on because
we've got to do a little story time from Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I'll do it one hundred percent absolutely, Danny, thank you
so much for stopping by, Bubba.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
You gotta hear the best. Doug.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Make sure you subscribe to the Dugout. You can find
me at dm EAS recruiting on X and Doug Man
Cabridge sixteen on Instant. Look forward to hearing from you guys,
and I'll see you next episode.
Welcome back to the Dugout Podcast. I'm your host, Dougnan Kavich.
I have a longtime friend, go way back to his
Westminster Academy days. He was my only high school sack,
Danny Canal. He was a three sport athlete in high school.
Got drafted twice in baseball, once by the Brewers in
high school once and by the Yankees in college. Even
(00:27):
dabbled with the New York Bears. You know to me.
He was thrown into the fire at Florida State, didn't
get a chance to red shirt, backed up a Heisman
Trophy winner, held the snap that won national championship for
US in ninety three, played a ton of as a
true freshman, which never really happened back then, got into
a lot of games early was the orchestrator of the
(00:48):
choke at Dope down thirty one to three for all
of you who don't remember, down thirty one three and
the fourth quarter, came back and tied against our hated
rival of the Florida Gators. He is part of XM
Serious Radio, Dusty and Danny in the Morning. I want
to welcome Danny Cannell to the show. Also want to
say this what am mourning for you? You go from
talking to Dan Mullin on a nationally syndicated radio show
(01:11):
to this dipshit on a to the Dugout podcast. So
welcome Danny. Thanks for coming on and looking forward to this.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I love it, man, We're gonna have a great time.
It's always catching up with you. I'll hold you up
there to any guest we've ever had as being a legend,
both from Major League Baseball, from Florida State and even
back to Westminster Christian. Man, it's great to be on
with you. And you know, getting a sack against me
is not that special because I'm obviously not the fastest
(01:40):
guy in the world. So if we had a forty,
if we raced, it'd probably be pretty neck and neck.
It probably wasn't the prettiest sack. I'm just gonna go
out on a limb and say that. And I do
think that we ended up winning that game, But then
you guys got the best of us in baseball.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I think we won that game, but I'll leave it alone.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
We'll have to go check directly.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Like I said, I the joke of it was I
wasn't allowed to play defense and we had a couple
of guys get hurt and I only played like two
series and I remember coming up feel going what is
so hard about this defensive stuff. I'm like, this guy's
going to Florida State, he's a five star. I'm like,
if I chase him down, you guys suck, Like that's
the problem. So I got instant street credit out of
the shoot from that and never played defense again, So
(02:22):
I kind of I keep that in my back pocket,
especially for a guy that went on to play six
years in the NFL. So Danny want to come up.
I know you come up with your own top twelve,
and I love the stance you have as far as
you know the bias. I'm not a believer in the
preseason polls just because you get you know, teams get
a lot of credit for what they've done in the
(02:42):
past and it's not what you see right now. And
I think you see that a lot in coaching today.
There's analytics, but they don't really do what their eyes
tell them to do at that given moment. So you know,
I'm not going to beat a dead horse with that,
but I want to hear your explanation of how you
feel against the four point team. Playoff and the twelve
teams playoffs.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So yeah, so I'm college football. I'm so passionate about it,
and I love the debates that we have, and we've
got the best fans in the world. I mean, I
think the passion of college football fans is unrivaled. Like
NFL fans are good, they're just not the same. I
don't know. Major League Baseball has good fans, but just
not the same level of passion and interest. So it's
(03:25):
always been something that's fascinated me. Now with somebody who
grew up and played in an era when you had
a bunch of sports writers sit around and vote on
a national champion, and half the time you had two
national champions, and sometimes you had national champions who you know,
hardly played anybody. It just it made zero sense. But
(03:46):
of course I benefited from that. Right we won a
national title in ninety three. We lost to Notre Dame,
who then lost to Boston College, which got us back
in another opportunity. And yet I talked to Notre Dame
fans and I've seen Lou Hull and he's still bothered
by the fact that they beat us, where a one
loss team won their bowl game and they didn't get
any recognition, and I'm like, sorry, that was what happened
(04:08):
at the time. So I knew it was flawed and
I have a ring to show for it, which was great.
But it's always been like this beautifully flawed sport that
how can we get it better? And then of course
we had the BCS, which wasn't a whole lot better,
but at least you had a national championship game that
was sort of stand alone. Then they realized, we have
(04:29):
over one hundred and thirty teams that play at the
FBS level and we're only letting two play for the
national title. So they had the genius idea to go
double down and make it four out of one hundred
and thirty. And it's like, okay, that's better, but there's
still teams that get screwed. And then, of course last
(04:50):
year we saw our Alma mater get probably the worst
shaft in the history of the four team playoff by
getting left out just because your quarterback was hurt. In
a team sport where you're supposed to be able to
everybody raises their level of play and we don't have
to rehash that all out. So then we go to twelve,
and I love twelve. And my stance has always been
Doug that you know, four was better than two, but
(05:13):
it was still flawed. And I have the same stance.
I think twelve is better than four because it gives
more teams opportunities. They can't have so much bias. You
can't really corner the market and just allow certain conferences,
and you can't have conference champions not even have a
chance to play for the national championship. So twelve is
definitely better. But what is bothering me, and we've seen
(05:35):
this in Baseball two, which bothers me again, is you
get so we have twelve teams, and the conversation is
already starting, and it starts at the beginning of the year.
How many SEC teams are going to get in, you know?
And it started in the four team really the first
when I was out of ESPN, I noticed this and
it bothered me. It's like, can the SEC get two
out of the four? I'm like, why are we even
(05:56):
going there? But they plant the seed to try to
just make it become a reality. And now, especially the
last two weeks, as you've had more SEC teams losing,
it's like, oh, they're all really good. Can we get
five teams from the SEC? Can we get six teams
from the SEC? Well, yeah, it's gonna help you win
(06:17):
a national title if you have half the teams in
the field, which is something we've seen in Omaha recently,
and they really do a great job of campaigning, politicking,
selling the history, selling tradition, selling draft picks, and then
it becomes this self fulfilling prophecy. But then it makes
the path to get a national champion easier. And then
(06:39):
they're like, hey, we have so many national champions, Well yeah,
because you get more teams to get a crack at it.
So that's like in short where I am with the
twelve team playoff, it's better. Still incredibly flawed. I think
you're going to see some of those flaws. The good
news is this current formula is only two years this
year and next, and then they're going to revisit, which
I think they'll come to their senses and try to
(07:00):
pick some of the flaws that are in it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Right now, I'm sure you can throw in the two
thousand hurricanes into that BCS mix that they beat us,
and then you know, we end up playing Oklahoma and
the national championship came and you know, yeah, we've talked
about this off the air, but as much as Arma
Mater got screwed last year, you know you can have
that same token. As bad as we got supposedly the snub,
(07:21):
Georgia got snubbed even worse. They lost a one score
game on a neutral site, and they lost one game
in three years. And if you were Vegas and you
match those Georgia up against those four teams in the
top four, pretty sure George is favored in all those games.
So and I also don't believe in that everybody's still
talking about the snub and all this stuff, like, get
(07:42):
over it, it's over, it's done with move on. You
brought up you know the money thing too. It's like,
if you SEC wants all these teams in there, once
you share some of the share some of the SEC
money with the rest of us, and then we'll get
a fair then we get a fair shot. So I mean,
I get it, I understand it, I got I just
it's so frustrating to watch the build of you know
what I mean. Like take Louisville this year. Louis was
(08:03):
a really good squad and you take that Miami game
was epic, and that offense can score on anybody, and
the Miami game was epic. I mean, it's just it's
you keep going on and you're like this, I'd like
to see that team run up against, you know, an
SCC squad LSU. I always say, is always what Florida
State did LSU the last last two years, not this year,
but the prior to years. We pretty much manhandled them
(08:24):
and that we did what sc SCC teams are supposed
to do to ACC teams. But we did it. We
flipped it right. You go. One more better is I
think Ole Miss and Penn State are they get ranked
every year and they don't beat anybody. Old Miss finally
beat somebody recently, but Penn State beats who they're supposed to.
And then every year they run up to a team
(08:45):
that's equally as good or a little bit better. They
don't show up, but they always get credit for it.
And I thought the Bowl teams did a great job
last year of playing against each other because one of
them had to win.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
The program that's getting screwed the most this year is
that SCBA. Well, Indiana's finally get in the recosition. Here's
What concerns me about Indiana is because we've already heard
this from some of the you know, bigger voices, is, oh, well,
if they lose to Ohio State, they're out. Well why
do they have this barometer of they can only lose
one game? But yet I've already heard and Georgie's only
(09:16):
lost two games, but oh well, if Georgia loses to Tennessee,
that'd be three really tough losses and we you know,
we can't keep them out. They you know, they've historically
they've been great. Well so what like past history, Yes,
it's great, and they have a tradition. What if they're
just not as good this year? Like, why all of
a sudden do we have to give them a pass?
Indiana was having this unbelievable season and it should be celebrated.
(09:36):
Why are they held to this different standard? Well, it's
because people don't want to believe in them, or they
weren't in the preseason top twenty five and their prediction
was four and a half wins. So a lot of
people don't want to admit that they might have been
wrong in Indiana, where I'm like, maybe you're all wrong
about Georgia, Like we'll see how it plays out, and
I think Georgia wins against Tennessee and it takes care
of itself. But Indiana has to fight this perception battle
(10:00):
where if you start the season outside the top twenty
five and you're not the preseason polls, or if you're
not a traditional blue blood, you have to win and
prove it to people like twice as much. It's not
that dissimilar to a draft picks. But if you're a
first round draft pick in Major League Baseball or the NFL,
you get so many passes, oh, well, he's a rookie.
(10:21):
That's the way he's a rookie. But if you get
thrust into a rookie season as a sixth or seventh rounder,
this guy he was never going to be any good,
so you probably get cut. You never get an opportunity.
But if you're a first round, top ten pick, you'll
get either more opportunity with the team you're on, but
as soon as you get cut, another team snaps you
up and they're like, we can fix this guy. It's
(10:41):
very similar like if the perception of you is you
were strong and you were a blue blood, or you
were a number one overall pick, you get more forgiveness,
but if you're not, you have to prove it over
and over and over again, which keeps you down. Like
it keeps it makes it harder. So in the end,
is that team. SMU is that team. They're ranked fourteenth,
(11:03):
and if you hold their resume next to Penn State
or Texas who are three and four, it's ridiculous that
SMU is not in that vicinity. And if you wanted
to say, well, SMU's resume isn't that great, fine, then
keep Penn State and Texas down next to SMU because
they should be in the same tier of teams and
yet SMU is eleven spots lower than Texas. It doesn't
(11:25):
make any sense other than they have the longhorns on
their helmet. You know they were in the playoffs last year.
Because they haven't beaten anybody of consequence, Michigan's not that good,
Oklahoma's not that good. Yes, they boat raced Florida this
past weekend, but they also got beat really bad versus Georgia. Like,
they didn't look great in that game.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So Doctor Pepper frustrating, They got Doctor Pepper commercials exactly.
That helps take the name, take the title off the
resume and then and then rank them right like they
should have to do that.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Blind resumes would be awesome. Uh. The only thing is
so here's a little, dirty, little secret. I was actually
gonna do a video on this because we use power
rankings and analytics. So a lot of the power ranking
systems they use five years typically, that's what they use,
five years of data, and so they take into consount
(12:17):
can they take into consideration recruiting rankings from five years,
They use records win loss records from five years. They
use returning production, which is important. All these things are good,
but with the amount of shakeup that we have seen
in college football, with the portal and with NIL, it's
a completely different landscape. So, yes, while you're Georgia and
(12:39):
you were dominant a few years ago and winning back
to back championships, some of your talent has departed. Your
recruiting rankings don't matter as much because they've left as well.
But you still get that bump in the power rankings
that really don't matter as much. That's why we've seen
teams like Bama get beat by Vanderbilt, Notre Dame get
beat by note, Northern Illinois, Kentucky, beats old Miss. There's
(13:03):
just more parody than there's ever been. And I think
until we get five years of current data in this new,
opened up free market that we call college football, they're
getting a huge bump from years when you could dominate
because you had that much more talent than everybody else.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
I equated to like the NCAA basketball and no time
at any other time in NCAA basketball history can a
sixteen bea to one. You get a sixteen seed that's
got four or five year guys and played their system
against you know, could be four potential first rounders. That
system can beat a number one more. It never happened before.
You get boat raced by eighty, right, you know it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Now we've seen it happen twice, and we've seen fifteen's
knockoff two. There's way you're one hundred percent right, it's
like and yet people have a hard time grasping it
because it's what we've known for so long. But it's changing.
It's just the whole thing is changing right in front
of our eyes.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
That ties into a question I had I had written
down was about like, how has have in your mind
ANIL transfer portal changed everything? And use answered it. You know,
it's like it's funny. How like when you go on
social media, I mean you get it worse than I
do because you talk football every day. But like our ant,
everybody's come back to us as, oh, you're one and nine,
like I'm not talking, I'm allowed to talk about everything
(14:20):
and everything else. Stop throwing the record. I get it,
I see it, trust me. I'm not happy about it.
But why is it? Oh my gosh, it's death to
Florida State. Because we're one, it will be two and
ten or what might be one and eleven the same token.
We can turn this around and be seven and five
next year. Change up two. You give us kim Ward, right,
(14:42):
we've won, we win eight more games. And if you
take Kim Ward away from Miami and Miami fans don't
want to hear this. They've lose five games, maybe more. Absolutely,
this thing can change so fast, so quick, and just
because Florida State example, Norvell did it with the portal.
He built on it a couple of years, had a
your quarterback who kind of got around the system, and
(15:03):
all of a sudden you have the perfect storm and
it disappeared fast. But it all goes back to the nil.
In my opinion, the transfer portal has taken away what
made Flora State great in the nineties and Miami you
were three four deep with number one picks. Yep, those
guys aren't gonna stick around anymore. So your depth is gone.
(15:23):
You start taking away depth in college football, that's where
parody starts to creep in. And that's to me, why
you see and why to me now more than ever,
those preseason polls should be thrown out the window.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Totally agree, and you have nailed it on why the
parody is here, you know, and it's in for the
In the last ten to fifteen years, it's been Alabama,
it's been Ohio State, it's been the usual suspects that
have been in the top five every single year, and
even pre nil. I mean, let's be honest, those programs
(15:55):
were paying their players under the table and they were
still able to get all these players well once you
made it league the programs that we're trying to do
it right. Vanderbilt is a really good example high academic institution.
They don't it's like above them to ever try to cheat,
which is great, Like it's good. I appreciate that they
try to do it the right way. All of a sudden,
they're able to spend a little bit of money. They're
able to get in a player like we've seen in
(16:17):
Diego Pavia a transfer from New Mexico State. They also
took a little bit of an academic you know, risk
that they maybe not take. But like the whole landscape
has changed, They've got a couple other transfers. All of
a sudden they can compete. But it happens because, like
you said, a player who normally could get money under
the table to make say, let's just say one hundred
(16:38):
grand to go to Alabama, Ohio, State, Florida, wherever it is,
and he'd be like content sitting on the bench. I'm
getting paid one hundred. Now he can go to a
second level or a mid tier sec ACC team, make
the same hundred maybe even a little bit more, and
he gets to play right away, and he gets he
doesn't have to wait around. So all of that talent
(16:59):
is just spreading out, which I think is great. Like
I even as somebody who was able to be on
one of those teams that had the advantage, I love
that we have more parody, that we have more upsets,
and we have more teams that really have an opportunity
to win the title, because it's like in the last
twenty years, you really could like circle In the beginning
of the year, ten teams, it was like that's probably
(17:19):
about it. Who could win it this year? And especially
now what we've seen play out this season. I think
even now at this point in the season, like I
like Oregon and Ohio State, but I could also go
down to an old miss you go down maybe Miami
if cam Ward gets hot, Like you can go fifteen
to twenty deep and say any one of those teams
could get it if they get hot at the right time.
(17:40):
There's not that much of a gap. So I love
that we've seen this thing kind of open up and
give more people the opportunity to win it.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
It's funny you say that because baseball who's hot at
the right time? I mean you take you said it yourself, Miami,
you take cam Ward? Like Ali, you said ten teams,
I would say, you could circle free right right, there's
no shot. Well you can do that where at any
given Saturday. You know, there's a lot of teams. It's
(18:07):
not as an upset anymore, not really. I mean South
Florida had Bama beaten three and a half quarters. Yeah, granted,
strength and probably depth had something to do with that, right,
because they had a little more depth in South Florida
finished the game anyway. I just it's I'm not a
to me, it's the it's become the inmates are running
the asylum type thing. I feel bad for coaching. It
(18:29):
really is tough because how do you develop. There's a
difference between developing for the future and having to win
games right now. And I think that's where we're in
that transition phase where it's you know, you want to
develop and keep guys there and keep guys happy, but
you have to play them. And it's a tough gig.
I mean, when you run Nick Saban out of coaching,
(18:49):
we got problems. I know, Like that's there's something to
be said about that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It's happening all over the place. Think about in football,
Hardball goes to the NFL, Saban retires, basketball coach k retires,
Jim Beheim retires, Tony Bennett Virginia, who's still in his fifties,
he retires, and they all cite the same thing. It's
almost impossible to coach right now and it's so that's
why I'm very curious to know what you think about this,
(19:14):
because you know, I hate what we've seen in young athletes,
and I think it starts even earlier than college. I
think it starts in youth sports. I think it little
league in all sports and girls sports. To see it
in soccer, the sports, because I have all daughters, but
I've seen it kind of come in where you see
parents they try to you know, if your kid doesn't start, well,
(19:38):
we got to find another team. Got we gotta find
a team with the play on. Or if your kid's
a pretty good player on an okay team and your
team's like, you know, ten and five, well we got
to get my team. My kid's got to go to
a winner. So let's instead of lifting everybody around them
and being like it's okay to learn how to lose. No,
my kid has to win a championship. So let's go
(19:58):
play for this team that's maybe an hour away. But
he can be undefeated and win a national championship when
he's twelve, Like what are we doing? And then it
kind of creeps in. This mindset comes in where Dylan
Rool is playing quarterback in Nebraska, right now and he's
struggling a little bit. He played at four different high schools,
four Like what are we doing? What about Like, from
(20:20):
let alone the football aspect of it and the development
or lack thereof, what about the character development and building
relationships and friendships? Like I still talk to some of
my high school buddies that we played together and we
won championships in some sports, we lost them in others
we were you know, like we we built friendships that
laughed a lifetime. What about that? And like, I wouldn't
(20:42):
be surprised if Dylan Royola transfers again because that's what
he's used to. Nebraska's not good. I need better talent
around me. You know, it's never me. And it's not
to rip on him because it's really a mentality that's
set in across college football. There was a kid at
Boston College who just got benched and he's he quit,
He left his team and they still have three games
left to play and he walks out and the coach
(21:03):
says he needed a few days. What are you talking about?
He needed a few days. I would to tell him, like,
go ahead and just pack it up and leave, which
he's going to do it was reported last night that
he's gonna hit the portal, like of course he is,
because it wasn't going great. I and to your like
for the feeling bad about coaches, and no one ever
feels bad for the coaches because I always reference, well,
they make so much money, which yes, they make a
(21:25):
boatload of money and they know it. But it's almost impossible.
How do you like? I was chewed out like a lot,
you know, but when I look back on it, like
Mark Rick, he chewed me out a couple times, not
a lot, because I liked the way he coached me.
But when he did, I was probably lacking at practice
because I was out the night before and I probably
(21:45):
needed it, you know. I missed. I missed an assignment
because I wasn't in my playbook and I didn't I
needed it, Like I was like, yeah, I deserved it.
I didn't get my feelings hurt or when I got benched.
I got benched after the Miami game first time we
played them through three picks. I didn't quit. I thought
I probably wanted to. But I called my dad and
he's like, are you like, get back, go win your
(22:06):
job again? Like fight through it. There's no like it's
just I just I don't. It blows my mind that
and the players have a lot of power and freedom
to move, so they do.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
It's just that's my biggest problems that they've given the
players too much power. And I again, all those things
you said are absolutely right. I use the line all
the time coaching playing, don't like it, play better, and
that it's simple, and it's just no, you're not gonna
go somewhere else. You're gonna fight for your job. It's
called accountability, right. And I always say players get better
(22:36):
in the dark, not in front of coaches, get better
in the dark. And that's something that you have, this
fear factory because as a coach, I'm finishing my degree
right now to try to get back into coaching college baseball.
And I am i gonna get a you know, power
to conference job. Maybe maybe not, but I'm not gonna
walk in and go to Tennessee. So I'm gonna have
(22:56):
to take over a mid major. And my whole thing
is gonna be like where do you want to play? Well, okay,
I want to play at Florida State, Tennessee, whatever, South Carolina.
I'm like, all right, I'll help you get there, but
come here first. I'll develop you, and when I think
you're ready, we'll move right. But that's the scary part.
It's like, but when you start to get great players
(23:17):
and they're not happy. I don't have a problem with
the guys leaving to better their situation. I have a
problem with guys that announced they're going to the portal
as a free agent, right and then they try to upright,
and then they come back to the same place and
then they play like crap, like some of our guys
(23:38):
that are wearing the Garden gold right now, that's what's happening.
And it's like, I try to quite the take fans
I'm going If you think about it, if you had
if every player in a professional sport hockey, football, basketball, baseball,
became a free agent end of the year, this would
be an epic shit show of no return. And that's
basically what you have in college sports right now. Right
(23:59):
It possible to teach, it's impossible to coach, it's impossible
to hold somebody accountable. Saying, you know, Nick Saban, I
hear what you're saying, right that the best thing to
do is put them on the bench. Not always. Now,
if that's the case, then why do you walk away
rant you've got a billion dollars and you don't need
to do it anymore. But that's that's exactly the case.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Right, And like you, like you said, I think there's
a couple of situations where I look at it and
I'm okay with it. By probably ten years ago. As
soon as ten years ago, I used to hate transfer
portal guys like why are you quitter? You know, even
some quarterbacks that wouldn't stick around and wait, And I've
kind I've grown, I've evolved, and I've looked at it
and been like, you know what if I if you're
sitting behind somebody who's really good and probably a first
(24:39):
round draft pick, and you're the same class, and why
wouldn't you go somewhere else? Like it does make sense
to go find an opportunity. If you were a group
of five player or an FCS player who was bawling out,
you would do the same thing the coach would, right,
because that's what you kind of have to do to
work your way up the ladder. And I do think
college football is organically evolving into a minor league baseball
system where it's single a double a triple A and
(25:01):
it's group of five, then maybe it's acc Big twelve,
and then sec big ten are kind of the triple
A right before you get to the big leagues. And
I think what you're already seeing. Yes, you're seeing players
brought up, guys like Brandon Fisk at Florida State, Jared Verse,
they play at smaller schools, they come, get the opportunity,
then they go to the NFL. You're also seeing it
the other way. You're seeing a lot of power five
(25:21):
to fives to our quarterbacks aren't good enough go down
and start going down the rank. So it's kind of
organically evolving. But I also wanted to hit on because
I think what's happening at Florida State with the one
to nine season, with the talent they had, and you know,
the transfer portal guys that they had. I don't I
think we probably will be the worst case of it.
But I do think you'll see teams. And this was
(25:43):
a concern of mine in this era, was when you
get all these portal guys who kind of hired guns.
These free agents that come in, they're they're not invested
in going to battle with guys next to them. Like
guys that they came in and you saw this in baseball,
come in with a class as freshman, and there's a
bond and you kind of all go through the same struggles.
(26:05):
You have to go through Matt drills, you have to
go through training camp, and you're all in it together
and you'll struggle early and then you go together and
you grow as sophomores and get a little bit more experience,
get your first start, and you're excited. You have these
bonds that are deep, like bigger than the game bonds
where man, I want to fight for that guy, I
want to play with him, and you start in. The
(26:25):
other bond you build is to your university, like you're man,
I went here to be part of something special, and
I want to be part of a Florida State legacy,
and I want to try to bring a championship to
the school that I chose. Well, when you don't have
those bonds the minute and you come there either, probably
most most of these guys came to Florida State to
one primarily get paid and probably get to the NFL,
(26:47):
and they thought it would help them and then maybe
a championship was on that radar. Well, the minute that first,
that championship goal falls short, Like, you're not that invested,
so you start showing up, kind of going through the motions.
And the minute you do that, you can probably still
give good effort. But if you're not invested, if you're
not willing to go to battle every single week, you're
(27:09):
gonna get exposed. And I think that happened, and I
think I thought they were fighting pretty hard the last
two weeks. It's hard to make an argument there was
much effort. They just kind of start going through the motions.
And this is that. The realization for me when I
went to the NFL was when we lost a game
at Florida State. It was a morgue in the locker
room at practice. It was bleak. Everybody was pissed off,
(27:31):
and you didn't like, we want to get back on
the field. NFL first loss. I remember coming in. I
was really upset. I wouldn't even start, but I was like,
you know, I just want to make sure I looked
like it hurt, even though it was like all right.
But then the guys come up and they're like, hey,
where are we going tonight? You know, And then all
of a sudden there's some music on in the locker room,
like wait a second, we just lost a game and
they're like nah, like no one really cared because the
(27:51):
check still cleared, you know. And that mentality is creeping
into college football all across the board. And I think
with teams that fall short of a goal like Florida
State did, there are gonna be a lot more examples
of these teams with massive expectations that have talented rosters,
but the minute they lose two or three games, quickly
it's going to be four or five and six games. Again.
(28:13):
I don't know if it'll ever be as bad as
what Florida State has seen, but I think you're gonna
see teams kind of derail more often than we've ever
seen in college football.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It goes back to I always go back to I
kept writing down alpha male like the team. When you
can do that when you have alpha male's on your roster.
Jordan Travis right, been there, he's invested. When their voice
is louder than the newcomers, you usually have to buy
in right verse loud at practice. Second year guy right,
(28:42):
he came with an edge. I've said this. I've said
this numerous times on other shows when you transfer portal up,
there's all there's still chasing the rabbit when you when
you transfer portal down or sideways, you're probably a problem
child because you didn't like competition pretty much. Shaven said
that on game and not in those words, but that's
exactly what happens. You're getting everybody else's prima donna. That
(29:05):
the travel ball kid that transfers fourteen times, who doesn't
want to get punched in the mouth. Whereas verse right,
Albany came up started seeing it, you're not coming here
and reckon what we already do and that or it
goes back to when you have too many of them,
that's a bad that's a bad seed. And it all
goes back to, like I said, it goes back to
alpha males. If you have an alpha male who's louder,
(29:25):
it goes it ties into Minor League Baseball's playoff system.
And I use this many. I use the word finish
a lot with my guys. I was like, I've been
a player at this level, I've been a coach and
a manager's level. Be louder than the ones that want
to go home. You're going to go home in ten days,
whether we win or lose it, you might as well
put you, you know, but you have to be louder
(29:46):
than the ones that want to go home. And if
you have to drag them with you, drag them with you.
And that's the idea, and I trust me, I get it. Football.
You don't want to go bumping heads of people when
they're not invested. And the part that kills me is
they want to go to the next level. You're putting
this crap on tape, right And the number one thing
that like you can say about fisk Verse, they've got
(30:07):
high motors. I kept I text all my Dolphin fan friends.
We missed by one pick getting that, and I notice,
respect to Chop Robinson, but like you're a Penn State
guy and it's probably not gonna work, but you're looking
at this guy. I'm like, watch those two up front.
Those two never stop and they've been doing that since
day like day one together. They were excited to work together.
(30:30):
They go back. There's a different that motor means more
than I goes ties into the stars. I don't want
to hear about another damn five star just because it's
a recruiting thing. You can't put a star on a
guy's motor. You can't put a star on a guy's heart.
You can't put a guy florest date just got those
two three star corners. Secondary fine, they've got something to prove. Like,
(30:52):
if you're willing to buy into my system, I don't
need five star guys. Trust me, We're gonna bludgeon you
to death. And that's what That's what I thought we
were getting to. And I'm not sold on what is next.
I'm not sold on fire everybody, because it's gonna take
more than sixty eight million. It's gonna take one hundred
and fifty. Right unless the Spanks girl's gonna come out
and write a huge check for us. I don't know
(31:13):
if that's gonna work, right. But that's kind of goes
into my next question. If you were Mike Alferd, how
would you fix this?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So I was just in Tally, I would I spoke
to the Tallahassee Quarterback Club, and uh, they were asking
me all these questions and so, like, the first thing
is you start, like Michael Alferd, what does he do
with Mike Norvell? He doesn't have a choice because of
what you mentioned, the sixty five million dollars buyout, Like
I would sell. And you've seen the Gators do this
with Napier because they just gave him an endorsement. Like
(31:42):
and because you'd probably have the fundraise, you'd have to
do a massive fundraiser or go to your biggest boosters
and say, hey, I need ten million, I need five
million from you, ten million from you. Let's collect the money.
Let's figure out a way to get rid of Norvel.
Which I'm not advocating. I'm just saying, even if you
wanted to, that's what you would have to do. Supposed
to that, say, you know what, you know what wins
(32:03):
like coaching is really important, but the players are the
most important commodity. Let's do a fundraiser and do what
Ohio State did you know? They went out they got
Chip Kelly to be the offensive coordinator, and they spent
twenty million dollars on their roster, and they didn't bring
in a ton of guys. They just got some really
good guys. They got a good quarterback who had won
a Big twelve championship at Kansas State, and Will Howard.
(32:23):
They went out and get Caleb Downs, who's probably the
best safety. And guess what Alabama's problem has been this
year their secondary. They get him to be there, They
get a running back from old Miss, they get the
center from Alabama player who had been a multi year starter. Like,
they get experienced guys, added a couple other pieces, kept
the guys that they really liked on their team. Twenty
million dollars was the number, Like, that's what I would say,
(32:45):
but so like that's the starter. Is what I would
sell the boosters on is we need to And what's
really hard is that you've already had to do this.
You probably did it last year saying we're close, we
need this push, and then you failed, right, Like, so
you want me to come back? And that's this again.
An aspect of this system that I hate is asking
fans who already spends so much money to travel to
(33:05):
Tally to support the team, to buy season tickets. Like
I hate that we have to go there and ask him.
It's just the reality of what it is. So that's
like one push that's maybe hard. The coordinator jobs, I
think this will be because you know, you get asked
about all the typical names like Dan Mullen, who we
were talking about before the show. I don't think Dan
(33:25):
Mullen would take Florida State's offensive coordinator job in a
million years. In fact, when he was on this morning,
he kind of joked and he said, as their head
job available, because I think he might be interested in that,
but he does and he said, you know, they're not
going to have an opening because I think he even
realized that. But yeah, that would be a great name,
I think if you're Norvel. And so here's the other
tricky aspect to this, for either defense or offense. You've
(33:48):
got to find somebody who is willing to take on
the risk of going to place which doesn't have a
lot of stability, you know, because you're coming off of
one or two win season and everyone's gonna watch every
single list. Next year, we'll have Mike Norvel top of
the hot seat, even though maybe that's not even a
reality because the buyout' is probably gon dound fifty five.
He's still probably there and you can do your due
(34:10):
diligence and look at it all right, it's probably two years.
But so that's gonna turn off a lot of coaches,
which I say, good, I don't want that guy, like
I don't want a guy who's looking at things nervous, like,
oh what if I don't do well, I want a
guy that comes in and says, no, I'm gonna bring
this program back. I don't even care if the guy
says I want to be a head coach one day,
I'm gonna crush it and leave in two years. That's
(34:31):
the mentality I would want, is I'm gonna come do
so well and help this program turn around so much
that I'm gonna go parlay it and do the next,
you know, head coaching gig. And I'm gonna wait there
because I believe in myself that I'm gonna wait till
the best coaching gig comes available. So that's probably the
big thing. The thing that was intriguing to me, Doug
that I kind of liked was I did see some
NFL you know, and I don't even know if I
(34:53):
saw names specifically, but I saw the NFL you know,
tree like going to that angle. Today's player is more
NFL like. So I've loved that aspect. I love the
concepts that they're running in the NFL. I think you've
seen other examples of it. Washington is overachieving. This year.
They brought in Pete Carroll's son, Brendan Carroll to run
(35:13):
the offense. They brought Belichick's son Steve to run the defense,
and they're actually overachieving this year than people thought they would.
So I do like like exploring all avenues.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
This product in college football is more. This product in
college football is more NFL than it's ever been. So
why can't we whether it's a front office guy, right,
you're dealing with the same things that the NFL paid
players are dealing with now, salaries, whatever it is, that
dynamic has never been more prevalent in college force. You
need more pro people that have dealt with this before.
(35:48):
Phillip Bryant right, Boston College. You can't tell me that
set by his first game that not to say the
guy before didn't do a fantastic job, but that team
had a business like man mentality coming to Tallahassee that
I haven't seen this since I've been since I think
Matt Ryan was there. Like this team came in like
(36:08):
this is or this is just a standard quot, this
is what we do. We're gonna curves off you and
then just walk out, high five, shake hands and get out.
And then you can't tell me that that didn't have
like that had an NFL feel to it and a
look to it that they haven't had before.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You know. The other thing I think will be interesting
because the defensive coordinator will be easy higher relative to
who's in control, like it's your defense, run the defense.
The offense could be tricky because Mike Norvell, who has
been the play caller off and on, he might still
want to be a part of it. But that's one
where if you're Michael Alford and you have a great candidate,
you have to say to Mike, like, hey, this is
(36:42):
what needs to happen. But then is there an awkward dynamic?
Do you see a tug and pull? I think Norvelle
and I like him a lot like I do. I've
gotten to know him pretty well. I want him to win.
I love like this is both the love and I
hate because I love that I can see on his
face how much it hurts him, Like physically he looks
like is taxing him, and I hate that for him.
But I also think it shows me somebody who's a
(37:04):
competitor and wants to win and wants to fight through it.
But like, that's that conversation you have to have, is
we have this guy wants to come here, but he
wants complete control. I think you got to, like say,
you got to give it to him, you know, And
I think that's what Mike Norvell probably in self reflection,
I think he could really do a good job then
being the leader, be in the face of the program,
(37:24):
being more of a delegator. It's still being hands on
and being a part of the offense, but saying this
is completely yours, this is your offense. You do what
you want to do. I'll be the head coach.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
It's really hard to do it all. And I think
some coaches, there are a few that have had success,
but it's really hard. And maybe that's a small part
of why this thing, you know, is kind of coming
off the rails a little bit. I think he could
do Mike Norvell a lot of good to have him
just kind of sit back and be the authority figure,
the head coach and let the offense and defense do
(37:54):
their thing. Manage those guys, you know, manage what they're
doing aboute coach them week to week, help them make
the game plan. But on game day, this is yours,
this is yours. Let's go to work.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, it's funny you said, I always like the Jimbo
Fisher did it at an m right. I mean that
he was he was he was like the guru of
play calling for how many years? So, and it always
goes back to, like you talk about Norvell's face. I
always said this, Sam Palazzo, coach third was a manager
for the Orioles. I had him as an infill court
and a great guy, tremendous coach. He's like, he always
(38:28):
told me to take a picture of your face day
one of the season, and then take a picture the
last day of the season. He goes, you're gonna look
like you're ninety four years old at the end of
a time and year. So every time I think of that,
I think of like, look at Norvel's face on the
side of and I'm like, he looked like someone whos
ran his dog over, Like come on, man, like I
get it, like I go. I looked at it the
(38:48):
second week ago. Han, he's seeing ghosts like he's seeing
like this is he is someone punched him in the
stomach and he doesn't know how to react because he
can't believe what he's watching. I know, you got to
get out here, Danny. I appreciate it. I'll do this again.
I love this as far as getting to banter with
you is always priceless. From the days of sitting at
the table at one O four to hold mccam quorder
(39:11):
in Hawaii on the beach, I still got that picture
that's coming out, so.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
That's what I want. I'm definitely coming back on because
we've got to do a little story time from Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I'll do it one hundred percent absolutely, Danny, thank you
so much for stopping by, Bubba.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
You gotta hear the best. Doug.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Make sure you subscribe to the Dugout. You can find
me at dm EAS recruiting on X and Doug Man
Cabridge sixteen on Instant. Look forward to hearing from you guys,
and I'll see you next episode.
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