May 15, 2025 • 32 mins
On this episode of The Dougout, Doug is joined by one of the most interesting men in sports — longtime MLB GM Ned Colletti.
In part 1 of Doug's conversation with Ned, Ned shares insight from a remarkable career as an executive in the MLB and NHL(!), including his time as Doug’s GM with the Dodgers. The two revisit a funny spring training story, talk Dodgers culture, what it's like managing Team Italy in the WBC, and break down the Rafael Devers situation from a GM’s perspective. Stay tuned for part 2 coming next week!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome back everybody. I'm your host, Doug man Kavig of
the Dugout Podcast. This week, I have a man that
needs no introduction, but I'm going to give you the
long one. Anyways, mister ned COLLETTI forty years in Major
League Baseball. I dug some of this stuff up, but
I didn't know. I know there was nine years with
the Dodgers and no GM one more games in the
(00:30):
National League than Ned dude at this time, thirteen years
with the Cubs, eleven years with the Giants. Negotiated over
two billion dollars in contracts, which is a big number.
Has written books bestsellers, the Big Chair, four time Emmy
Award winning baseball analyst, which I knew you want, I
didn't know what you want up four times scout with
the San Jose Sharks, which we're going to tie into
(00:52):
that a little later. Currently working at Pepperdine as a
professor in sports administration. Welcome mister ned Colletti.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Doug, so good to see it.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Great to be on with.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
You as always. Uh, I can't thank you enough for this.
We were talking off air of some of the things
that we got into. If I told why it earlier,
I said, if I had you as a GM earlier, Uh,
I think things would have been a little I understood
more and I'd have been a I think a better player.
As far as handling some situations, I was very lucky.
(01:24):
I had a lot of great ones. But uh, to
finish my career with with you and Kim and everybody
in the front office, I was very very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, we were. We were glad to have you. Uh.
We were talking for a minute about the last day
we saw each other, but we.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Go right into that one, all right. So so this
is this is how dumb I was as a player.
So Joe Tory was the manager in LA. I'm coming
off a really bad shoulder injury. I try to throw
in spring training. Long story short, we signed Garrett Anderson,
and I knew Joe's affection for Garrett Anderson. Who wouldn't
Garrett was one of the best left handed hitters of
(02:02):
the generation I played, and that's for sure, And so
I knew the hen Ryan was on the wall.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Joe took me in a golf cart in between like
right before a.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Spring training game, and Joe's like, you're not gonna make
a team, And I said, Okay. Well, you know, luckily
for me, I've never been released before, I've never been
told I wasn't making a team, so I just did
what I thought I was supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So during the game.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I went and packed my stuff and I left, and
I remember even Steve, my agent.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Was like what are you doing? And I'm like, I
thought I was supposed to do this.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And then Steve's like, that's this and I'm like, I'm
getting out of his way.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
So we had a he scheduled a meeting the next day.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
We go into this office and I really, really I
think I gave you my thoughts.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You gave me your thoughts. It made sense from both
of us.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
But the one thing that was blew me away was
I left there more appreciative of the opportunity than I
had before I walked in there. And I think I
became a coach I think six weeks or eight or
whatever after my career six months later. So I know
you probably had a different feel like where the hell.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It does go?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
But for me, I was like, I'm not gonna get
hit in the head by number one oh six.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So to be an insurance policy for you.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, if it makes you feel any better. I probably
know a thousand players, you're the only one who ever
did that, so.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Better to be infamous.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Uh, that's kind of our background, and I think that
ties into I think you're so verse in what you've done.
I mean, to be in three or four different organizations,
let alone to see it. I always felt like when
I was with the Dodgers, we found so many really
good players that you felt still had something left to give.
(03:49):
And the combination of you and Joe and Kim really
did a good job of letting us know our roles.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And for that, I mean, I think I look, I
think back to that team we were on and nine.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I mean we had oh yeah, Brad Austmas, Mark Loretta,
uh Pierre. Situation was a tough one, you know, just
the bench guys. I'm talking about Ron Castro.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Uh. You know.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Then we got Jim Tomy, Like you had character guys,
that guy that you knew that we could plug in
if we had to. But we knew our role and
our job was not only to perform, but it was
also to take care of the loneies, the the Ethiers.
Uh gow blessed Ethier, which he gave me another year's
service time because Donnie and Joe he had they had
some trouble and he was a hothead and I loved
him so but.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
No, the Manny situation and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So I felt like, you guys, you know what to
be there and to have you guys appreciate I mean,
Eric Milton was another one, Jeff Weaver. Each one of
us are older guys, really had a niche to where
when someone went down, we kind of filled in and
and and you made us feel like we were just
as important as as the as the Big three or
Big four.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Of the young guys were there and Kershaw.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, well you guys were. You know, I have great
respect for people who play at the level you played,
and you know you I'm a championship caliber players, you know,
Hall of famers, not not necessarily most of you. But
it didn't make any difference because you knew how to
win games, you knew how to bond together, you knew
how to fight through adversity. Because when you get to September,
(05:13):
and I was never with a team that you know,
my early Cub days were a little bit you know,
we weren't that good. But after we got to the
Giants and after that every team I was ever with
we competed to win. And I say that not flippantly,
but I mean we you know, we were built to compete.
And I always knew that I needed veteran guys who'd
been there before, who'd walk the walk, who knew what
(05:36):
September felt like, who knew what October felt like. When
you haven't been there before and your experience it for
the first time, it's tough.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
But all you guys.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
You mentioned at a great number of guys there that
I still stay in touch with a lot of them,
but they were very special, including yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I enjoyed. I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I didn't really have a lot of time on the field,
but I really enjoyed that group, and that just the
whole clubhouse thing was. And I always joke with Joe
because I had Joe in New York and you know,
and I said, I got to l A, I'm like, man,
you look twenty years younger and now you're doing you're
laying on a surfboard in a state farm. I don't
know you anymore I have of you, but so it
(06:16):
was just a perfect I said, I cherished every moment
I played there.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I loved every second of it.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
You know, moving forward to that, I want to hear
you how you got you're obviously Team Italy and WT
and how that got started, and how that how that's
how that's working out.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, it's it's one of the great honors of my career.
It's voluntary actually, so it's not like I'm doing it
to pay a bill. But uh marcol Missouri is the
president of the Italian Baseball Federation. He scouted for me
years ago. He scouted, he scouted Europe. Basically there's you know,
Netherlands got some players, Italy's got a few players. So
(06:53):
he always knew that I had an interest in helping
out the heritage of my family and where my grandparents
came from. So he became the president in November and
he called me and he says, I want you to
think about being a GM for Team Italy. And I thought, wow.
He says, don't tell me now, give it. You give
it a month's thought. You know, it's over the holidays.
So I came back. I says, yeah, I'm honored to
(07:15):
do it. I'm honored to do it. And so you know,
we're the David against the Golias. You got USA, you
got you know, Mexico, you got Puerto Rico, Dominican, Venezuela, Korea, Japan.
You've got a lot of big time teams there that
probably have two hundred players wanting to play. Italy we've
(07:36):
had some tough, some trouble getting players to play.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
We have enough.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I have a list DOUG of almost one hundred players
that we think would qualify heritage wise, and our rules
are a little bit different than those other countries I
mentioned as far as if you're allowed to play because
of your of your family heritage. But if half the
players who I've talked to who say yes or have
(08:01):
expressed an interest through their agents or whatever, if half
of them say yes, we're going to surprise some people.
So I just love to compete. I love the chance
to do something. I'd love the chance to make something better.
How we're gonna do I don't know. I know we're
going to compete like crazy. My goal is that in
the next WBC after this, there's one hundred players who
(08:22):
want to play, that we've become like the other countries
that have got two hundred players calling their their GM
of their their country to say hey, I want to
be a part of this. That's why I wanted to
get there, and I want Italian kids who are growing
up there now to see baseball and say, hey, you
know what, I can put soccer aside for a minute
and try and learn something else.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, that's a tough thing too.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I know the thing I have with the Olympics too,
that's very similar with who's available, who's going to say yes,
what team's gonna pull this guy backwards? A little bit different,
but it's kind of the same as far as who
says they're going to play it and they decide decide
not to. But I feel like anytime those games are awesome.
I mean those games are you know, I I wish
(09:05):
I feel like it does. But I thought that what
the NHL did with the Nation's game, I thought that
was I mean, it brought back my childhood of five or.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Six years old, Mikero Rozioni in.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
His jersey, and it's similar, but it's like it's I
think the Nation one in the NHL was so tight,
it was so like condensed that it's hard to do
the WBC that way. But the same passion goes the
same way, and I wish we could get more of
that for everything, for three games, for even I'm like,
even the Olympic Games have been coming up in LA
(09:38):
in twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
I hope we can tie.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Into some of that to bring it to the Olympic
Baseball team and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
So that's a.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Really cool thing. And I think I think everybody I
know I like watching the WBC. I'm as a player
and as a fan. I watch with a cringe because
I know when your brain and you're you're makeup wants
to dial up the intensity, but you realize it's February
and March, like, oh man, please.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Don't snap anything.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
But at the same time, those guys man like to
see the passion on everybody's face from their countries that you.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Can't You don't get that in Major League Baseball. You
don't use it. You can't, So kudos to you for
doing that. That's that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Little funny, little funny story about the about the cringe.
So Moyes Salou was a GM of the Dominican Republic
and I was with Moyses in San Francisco for a
year as his dad, Filippe, one of the best people
I've ever met, manage a team of the Giants team.
So he calls me and he says, I really need
you to let me have Hanley Ramirez. And I says,
(10:39):
you know, he's he's a big guy for us. You know,
I'd love to do it. He says, well, please please.
You know, I'll take care of me. You know, you know,
I said, all right, right, So we let him play.
So they get to the championship game and I think
Hanley may have been playing third and fifth inning. They're
trying to win the WBC ground ball to his left,
dives breaks the stuff out for so, yes, the cringe. Yes,
(11:05):
you do go through the cridge.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
It's a little scary. It's it's I can't imagine I
can't imagine me on the other side being like because
as a player, you think you're invincible. You're like, oh,
it's just a game. I can do this too. But
uh no, I it's tough for even the guys like
the Mirror, like I say, the Mere Mortals, they get
left back at spring training because now you're having to
play more.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Some of some teams you're on, no one goes, and
on some team everybody's gone.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
So like la, I feel like everybody goes going.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I was like, man, where the hell is everybody like
you went to Japan or career or something that, you know, Like, man,
y'all kind to leave people back.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Man, I'm too oldly playing these damn games every day
at nine Indians. I'm not wasn't built for this anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
But I want some want to ask you, like, how
how do you go from baseball to NHL?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Like you're a scout for the stands.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, I've been doing it for about seven eight years now.
I also kind of mentor coaching. NHL's far smaller. You've
got one minor league team basically American Hockey League team,
plus the NHL team. So when I went to the Dodgers,
and I'd always had an interest in hockey, always followed it,
and always was diligent with it. But when I went
(12:15):
to the Dodgers, I came from the Giants. So the
guy I would call for advice, you know, the experienced
guy was now my greatest rival, Brian Sabian, So he
couldn't call me anymore and I couldn't call him anymore.
And there were some years. I mean, we're still the
best of friends, but there's some years we refuse to
(12:36):
speak to each other because we were like the Red
Sox and the Yankees, how are you going to do
this right? So I became friends with nhlgms and I
would go to their practices. I would take my inner circle,
three or four my top scouts on Canadian trips after
Christmas to watch World Junior tournaments and we get to
(12:57):
see these guys, and I just got to know like
four or five tremendous gms, and we shared the same issues.
You know, we shared the issues, you know, players getting
cut and just walking out packing their stuff. You know,
I think I may have had a unique story, but
I mean, you know, we knew what we were all
going through. Service is different, the pay scales, different, salary
(13:21):
cap all that stuff is a bit different, but there's
so many similarities. So when I stopped being a GM,
before I started doing TV for the Dodgers, all of
them called and said, hey, you want to Swiss sports,
And I said, well, give me a year to think
about it. So I waited a year, and some of
my buddies started moving around to different teams and stuff
like that, and San Jose their GM, Doug Wilson had
(13:43):
been there for years, and you know I knew him
for a long long time. And he said, look, enough
of you pontificating and waiting on this thing, procrastinating. Why
don't you why don't you do this? So I said,
let's do it for a year, and I want to
scout for you, but I don't want to get paid.
I want to see if I like it, and I
(14:07):
want you to see if you like what I do,
and our friendship will never be in the balance. I'll
do this. You don't have to pay me. You know expenses.
You're gonna send me on the road for a week. Yeah,
that you're gonna cover, but you're not gonna You're not
gonna hire me. And so we did it, and when
the season got near the end, he called me, he says, look,
I'm ready to hire you. You do great work. You
(14:28):
see the game a different way. You know, athletes are athletes.
You know you start. I start at the feet. I
work my way up. How do the feet work? How
do the hands work? How does the mind work? In
every sport? As you know, Doug, you know there's a
split second a hitter's got to make a decision, you know,
for the listeners out there take a book and hold
a book out and drop it to the floor from
(14:48):
a time it leaves your hand or the time you
hit the floor, Doug Man caves. You got to figure
out if he's swinging and where he's swinging, what he
is he gonna try and do with it. That's how
much time you got hockey. You got a thousand of
them a day of It's instantaneous decision making. How do
they do it? It's a tough sport. How do they play?
How do they play at the end of games? How
do they play when the chips are down? So I
(15:09):
brought that experience with me and I and I just
carried it over and it's been great. It's been refreshing
to me. It's uh, it's been a great ad to
my career.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I'm sure that's at the end of the day. We're
all competitors. There's there's there's and I I equate this too.
I coached high school for three or four years, and
I would have a chat with the parents, like, I
don't expect you to understand me. I'm just different. I'm
built different, and I think I'm different than a lot
of the guys that I played with. But like my
(15:44):
like because you think I'm being hard on so and so,
it's because I expect I want more out of them,
and I don't like the deliverance might not be what
you think it should be. But at the end of
the day, like I know in my experience as a
manager in the my oor leagues, like some of the kids,
I was the hardest on.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I thought hated me.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And you know after six months after they're done playing
that I was their first reference for a job. And
of course, like, of course I would. They're scared to
ask me. I'm like, why are you scared to ask me?
Like I had a I was I was a small
part of an important part of your life. Of course
I'm going to do that. Like we may have had
our differences, but that's that's nothing to do with your future.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
And then so I.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Got I got a lot of I will say, I
got a lot of like I don't even know the
right word is, but I got a lot of glory.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I kind of it.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
May it humbled me to have these kids ask me
for this stuff, and I thought, you know what, and
it made me think. The three times I got fired,
I was like, you know what I'm doing it right
for the kids. I'm like, the players appreciate how I'm
doing it, and that's at the end of the day.
I know, and I learned through time that yes, there's
some things you have to do according to the organization,
(16:55):
but at the end of the day, the players respected
me enough to work and I thought that was a
really I felt like I was doing it right. You're
a product to how you're brought up.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I was brought up.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
By John Russell basically in the minor leagues, and he was,
I know, he was kind of a I won't say rogue,
but he was like, I'm gonna my job is to
get you to the big leagues, and the according to Hoyle,
is not going to work with you. And he went
around some things to kind of teach me that, and
I think and I saw it work and I loved it.
(17:27):
And I named my son after his son. So the
relationship lasts longer than the resume. So anyway, I also
want to tie into speaking of the general managers. Baseball
right now is going in that Devers, the Raphaeld Devers situation,
the Red Sox their basement. They wanted to move, They've
(17:49):
wanted to move twice it's a big topic on social media,
and all the guys that I talked to, you know,
as as now fans are old old hats or the
old players have a kind of a For me, I
have a player's perspective. I have a manager's perspective, and
I want to get like your perspective as a GM.
(18:10):
For me, I just feel like, yeah, everybody's so quick
to be like, well, he's got to be a team
player and he's got to move, and I'm like, well,
first of all, I'm like, hang on, if you think
first base that easy, you go over there, you go
over and lets some of these guys.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Somebody be it.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I ain't that easy. But I feel like, and this
is just me. And again I always start everything with like,
I'm not in the room. I'm not in the Red
Sox room. I don't know the conversations I have. Do
I know people in that organization, Yeah, of course, but
they're not going to give me everything I understand the situation.
To me, it feels like they didn't have this conversation before.
(18:47):
I feel like, if something out and now they're kind
of backtracking to where like, oh shit, cast is getting
hurt didn't help at all.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
But you take a kid who's you just.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Gave him three hundred million and ten years whatever they
gave him, and to me, and I know, the game
has changed a little bit, and it's the people.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
The kids are, the players are different.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
They babied them and now they're seeing a repercussion of
it because now he's like, now he's got some you know,
now he's got a ten year deal, three hundred million dollars.
He's the face of the franchise. Now he's like, am moving.
So I want to hear, like from a GM what
you like, how you would handle this.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, well it's I'll go back to what you said
initially on the topic. You know, I don't know, I
don't know what the conversations have been or how many
there have been, or when they occurred, or how they occurred,
or how they were broached or what they ended.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Up leading to.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
But it's you know, it's such a difficult situation. And
players have changed, you know, they've evolved. You know that
they were a little bit more independent than they were
ten years ago, twenty years ago, thirty years ago, which
isn't a bad thing. It's just it's just where they've
gone I've always believed that I needed to have conversations,
(20:03):
and I'm not saying they haven't. As I said, I
don't know what they have or have it, but it's
important that you you set the tone and you explain
where you're at ahead of time before you're ever going
to need the confrontational type of conversation. I say confrontational,
I don't mean two people yelling at each other. I
just mean a conversation where one party's going to come
(20:25):
in with one beauty, the other party's going to come
in with a different view. And you know you have
to do that. I mean you said it at the introduction.
How we you know, we let people know what they
were going to do.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
We let them know what.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Their role was, We let them know what the expectation was,
and yeah, sometimes it's going to change because of the
nature of the club or guys getting hurt and things
like that. So again not knowing what they did or
didn't do. You know, he's got the leverage because of
the deal, but he's also I would think, has the
responsibility to his other, to his teammates, and to the
(20:59):
organization to some extent to really do what they want
them to do. But again, you can't. I think it
would be far easier to take a first baseman and
make them into a DH. Then think of DH and
make them into a first baseman. You know, it's just
not you just don't do that. Hey, we have a
(21:19):
conversation on Monday, and Tuesday you're playing. You know, there's
a lot to it. Teams that people that think that
playing first base is not hard never had to do
it or never had a first baseman that couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I remember Joe Mauer when Joe Mayer made the move,
I remember, and God blessed Tom Kelly, one of the
best manager I ever had. I was managing the Twin
system at the time, and we had a half field
by our spring training site, and I kept peeking over
across the field because Tom Kelly had Joe Mauer one
on one, and.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I would go through. I went through my whole.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Morning, you know, spring training pfps and rundowns, and I'm
looking at my watch. We're going We're going on two
hours and forty five minutes and they haven't move yet.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
And I know TK he wants to give him the
whole entire Bible.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I remember, I walked over after that day and I
looked at him and I said, how are you doing?
He goes, I don't want to put this glove in
my hand. I go, I know, because they gave him
the entire playbook when you just need to open the book.
And that's when I kind of got involved in kind
of teaching them. Look, let's keep it real simple and basic.
But until you can put anybody anywhere for a day,
(22:26):
you start putting there every day.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Shit happens really fast.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I signed up to go to the third every once
in a while, four or five days in a row,
I was like, give me.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
The hell away from here. This shit happened way too fast.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
But I go back to what you said about the
conversations too, And I learned this as a manager over time,
I would I wanted to make my players. I always
feel like what we've talked about already twice about conversations
and being open, And then I felt I had to
sometimes I had to pull myself back because through my
like through the little ten years as I did, I
(23:01):
found myself sometimes saying stuff that when the organization changed,
it kind of caught me. I'm like, oh, shoot, I
shouldn't have said that, not that it was anything bad,
like whether it was like you're playing tomorrow or you're
not playing tomorrow. Trying to be I'm like, this isn't
the big leagues, this is the minor leagues. Should happens,
(23:21):
and you got to be able to like And I
remember like thinking, like, I gotta stop that. I got
to stop telling him that, you know, And I never
told him moves before they happened, because God forbid, the
kids know the moves before the staff. Now, I mean
Twitter and all that stuff, they find out before we do.
But I found my stuff, and that's kind of like
where I always go back to, you know, fans and stuff.
In today's world, they're talking about, well, you know, Dev
(23:43):
should move, he's not a team player. Hang on a second,
Derek Jeter didn't move. Is Derek Jeter not a team player?
He's the ultimate team player? And I said, well, you
can't just move guys. You can't stress defense and all
of a sudden, we're just gonna move you. This isn't
fantasy baseball. You just can't take the guy and move him.
It's not a figuring. So I see both sides of it.
(24:05):
You know, you just want to be you want to communicate.
I don't know, but it just seems like when Bregman
came on, that would be a conversation you would have
before you sign him.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Hey look I can I can add you some health here.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
This guy's October on October Warrior guy goes to the
post every day. He's a gamer. You put him in Fenway,
He's gonna wear that wall out. He's gonna give you protection.
He's a third baseman. What are your feelings? Are you
gonna be okay with this? Not to say that you
don't do it. You don't make the movie if the
player has a problem with it, but you talk about
it before it happens. And I think that's that to me,
(24:37):
that's where and that ties into kind of what I'm
talking about next. Like I always I want to ask
you your thoughts of what is the director of Baseball operations?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Like what in your mind what does that mean? Like?
What what is that? What does that title mean to you?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Let me let me go back one last thought on
on Deavors. If if if Devers would have or anybody says, hey,
I've never played it before, but I want to play
first base starting tomorrow, would the organization say yes, or
would the organizations say, you know what, I appreciate that,
but let's say if you work out there a week
(25:14):
or ten days, let's have you spend some time with
the outfielder with the drills and the cutoffs and the
relays and the bunt plays and holding a run around
and pickoffs. Let's let's not just put you out there.
You know, they probably wouldn't let that happen.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
So and to go on with that too. Even moving
devors at the h D is a tough position. Well, yeah,
it's a position.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
And I'm having this in the twin of the organizational
meetings when they were discussing moving Joe to first, Joe
marta first, and I was like and they're like, oh,
he might hit four fifty, and I go, you might
hit two forty. And they thought I was crazy, and
I was like, well, you don't understand the fact that
Joe has been squatting behind the plate his whole life.
And he is the elite of the elite hitter, right,
(25:58):
He's just a he's got he's that generational type. I
just can spray the ball around all over the field,
hit line drives in a sleep, I said, But half
his brain. When he goes to plate, it's a relief
because he's not worrying about pitch calling that stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Some people can handle that.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
You put him at first and now all he's doing
is thinking about swinging. We might have he might go backwards,
and they were like, we never thought about it that way.
I got, trust me, I would for years. I was like,
please let me move positions because it might get my
mind off my swing. Because all I'm thinking about over
here is my swing. So you know that goes both ways.
Just because you're moving into the h doesn't mean he's
(26:35):
going to keep the same numbers. And at some point
you gave him three hundred million dollars. Let him do
what he wants to do. Yes, we all know that
the move to first base is probably going to happen
in a ten year contract, but there's a progression to it.
And my whole thing was when he came to spring training,
you told him to throw his glove away and I
don't care if his shoulders hurd or not. You can
(26:56):
go take ground balls, and to me, a ground ball
is a ground ball on a corner.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
They come fast. There's a little faster.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Don't get me wrong, but at first, at least go
take round balls. At least keep in there in case.
I mean, heck, even David took round balls during the
course of the season just to kind of stay in
the in the you know, just a goof around and
break up the monotony of spring of budding practice. So
to me, that's where I'm like, just because you think
you can just move this guy to dah and everybody's
hunky dory.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
To me, DH, I wasn't. I only did it a
handful of times in my career, but I.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Felt like the DH was the hardest position on the
field because it's all you do is hit. You pinch
hit four times.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yes, exactly, exactly. Going to the Baseball Ops question the
director of you know, it's it may be different today
when I did it in San Francisco. You know, you oversee,
you're not the GM, but you're lik in the seat
next to it, and so you're handling a lot of
the day to day and player development, a lot of
(27:51):
the day to day and amateur scouting, international scouting, pro scouting.
You're handling a lot of the day to day so
the GM can concentrate on the big picture. GM is
about thirty thousand feet. The director of baseball Ops isn't
necessarily in the weeds, but can get into weeds because
you don't want your GM or your president of baseball
Ops sitting in the weeds. They have to be at
(28:13):
a thirty thousand foot level to see it.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
When you think about a.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Person who runs an organization, they got one hundred and
seventy five two hundred players, another seventy five staff people,
and it's an everyday sport. As you know, it ain't
playing They're not playing it once a week, they're playing.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
It every day.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
So every day you've got massive decision making. Guy gets
hurt in the big leagues, you've got a ripple effect
all the way down to a ball. You know, you
got all those things that the baseball ops position. That
position does a lot of the day to day and
can get into the weeds easier and more effectively than
the GM or the president of baseball ops.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I always say this. I always tell people too. It's
not to put it on this podcast. I think people
need to understand. We write reports every single night after
every game, and you wanted them over the phone still,
back and back when I first started, and then it
went to computers, but we still had to write a report,
and in some organizations we had to write a player
(29:10):
on write a report on every player we saw, whether
we was on our team or the other team. So,
you know, so the GM and all like their little
they'll always call the POSSE or whatever you want to
call it, Director of Baseball Operations.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
We're giving them. At the time, there was what six
seven different.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You're getting seven game wraps, box scores, each individual, Howie pitched,
number of pitches, here's the velos.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
This is what I.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Saw and then and that that's just that's an everyday occurrence,
let alone the team that you're in the big league. So,
like I said, the whole ripple effect. I always say,
the worst job in baseball is the triple A manager.
You gotta you better have the the the Mike Tyson
sparring gear on because you're gonna get kicked in the
head all day every day. Because their big leagues are
(29:58):
taking two year relievers, the only two you had that refreshed.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Now you get three guys back that can't throw.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And then you get the teams, the affiliates, the affiliate
place you're at, they're talking about they want to win.
I'm going, is there any way we can get rained
out because we don't have any arms tonight.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
But they don't want to hear that because we have
a big gate because it's firework, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So that's I was just curious about the director of
base Operations because you're starting to see college places at
college programs starting to have those and I would love
I trust me, I've beat down everybody I could. I
thought I didn't necessarily kind of like how you I
would need a paycheck, but like the way you do
(30:36):
with the NHL, I would wanted to kind of.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
I'm a Terry Ryan, bless his heart.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I know when he when I came back to the
Twins and I said, Terry, I would love to be
in the trenches with you upstairs because I feel like
we're lacking a player player and I can go do
the hard conversations. Not that he didn't want to do it.
He just hated conflict, and I'm like, well, I live
(31:00):
for conflicts, so I can be I can be your
little dog that bounces around and kind of goes at
these and goes but it gives you the player's side
and perspective of when he goes, Doug are too important
to be on the field, and I thought, okay, great,
but I also felt like I would have loved to
been next to him for a year to better me
as a manager going down the road to be like, okay,
(31:23):
team building, right, and you see the you know you guys.
You guys go into your offices and there's the people
that don't know they have the list of all the
players and they have they all have their own little
codes and little docs. And when he's arbitration eligible, what's this,
what's his service time?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Whant to see a free agent?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
And they and it's it's it's And you can walk
in there and think it's Japanese and it doesn't make
any sense. But when you start to be around a
little bit, you're like, oh my gosh, this makes sense.
And I tell people all the time fans now that
I'm out of it, like just because they didn't go
get the free agent this year doesn't mean like that
means they have their eye on somebody.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
It's just not this offseason. It's it might be two
off seasons down the.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Road, but they have their righte on somebody that's gonna
wrap up this edition of the Dugout Podcast with me
and your host, Dougman Kabridge can't thank Ned Kaletti enough.
Holy Moly, is there something this man hasn't done. Looking
forward to more episodes with Ned and like us subscribe
anywhere you find your podcast, Apple, Spotify, check us out
(32:22):
the Dugout Podcast. Till next week, we'll be seeing you
Welcome back everybody. I'm your host, Doug man Kavig of
the Dugout Podcast. This week, I have a man that
needs no introduction, but I'm going to give you the
long one. Anyways, mister ned COLLETTI forty years in Major
League Baseball. I dug some of this stuff up, but
I didn't know. I know there was nine years with
the Dodgers and no GM one more games in the
(00:30):
National League than Ned dude at this time, thirteen years
with the Cubs, eleven years with the Giants. Negotiated over
two billion dollars in contracts, which is a big number.
Has written books bestsellers, the Big Chair, four time Emmy
Award winning baseball analyst, which I knew you want, I
didn't know what you want up four times scout with
the San Jose Sharks, which we're going to tie into
(00:52):
that a little later. Currently working at Pepperdine as a
professor in sports administration. Welcome mister ned Colletti.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Doug, so good to see it.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Great to be on with.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
You as always. Uh, I can't thank you enough for this.
We were talking off air of some of the things
that we got into. If I told why it earlier,
I said, if I had you as a GM earlier, Uh,
I think things would have been a little I understood
more and I'd have been a I think a better player.
As far as handling some situations, I was very lucky.
(01:24):
I had a lot of great ones. But uh, to
finish my career with with you and Kim and everybody
in the front office, I was very very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, we were. We were glad to have you. Uh.
We were talking for a minute about the last day
we saw each other, but we.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Go right into that one, all right. So so this
is this is how dumb I was as a player.
So Joe Tory was the manager in LA. I'm coming
off a really bad shoulder injury. I try to throw
in spring training. Long story short, we signed Garrett Anderson,
and I knew Joe's affection for Garrett Anderson. Who wouldn't
Garrett was one of the best left handed hitters of
(02:02):
the generation I played, and that's for sure, And so
I knew the hen Ryan was on the wall.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Joe took me in a golf cart in between like
right before a.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Spring training game, and Joe's like, you're not gonna make
a team, And I said, Okay. Well, you know, luckily
for me, I've never been released before, I've never been
told I wasn't making a team, so I just did
what I thought I was supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So during the game.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I went and packed my stuff and I left, and
I remember even Steve, my agent.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Was like what are you doing? And I'm like, I
thought I was supposed to do this.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And then Steve's like, that's this and I'm like, I'm
getting out of his way.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
So we had a he scheduled a meeting the next day.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
We go into this office and I really, really I
think I gave you my thoughts.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You gave me your thoughts. It made sense from both
of us.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
But the one thing that was blew me away was
I left there more appreciative of the opportunity than I
had before I walked in there. And I think I
became a coach I think six weeks or eight or
whatever after my career six months later. So I know
you probably had a different feel like where the hell.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It does go?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
But for me, I was like, I'm not gonna get
hit in the head by number one oh six.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So to be an insurance policy for you.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, if it makes you feel any better. I probably
know a thousand players, you're the only one who ever
did that, so.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Better to be infamous.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Uh, that's kind of our background, and I think that
ties into I think you're so verse in what you've done.
I mean, to be in three or four different organizations,
let alone to see it. I always felt like when
I was with the Dodgers, we found so many really
good players that you felt still had something left to give.
(03:49):
And the combination of you and Joe and Kim really
did a good job of letting us know our roles.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And for that, I mean, I think I look, I
think back to that team we were on and nine.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I mean we had oh yeah, Brad Austmas, Mark Loretta,
uh Pierre. Situation was a tough one, you know, just
the bench guys. I'm talking about Ron Castro.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Uh. You know.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Then we got Jim Tomy, Like you had character guys,
that guy that you knew that we could plug in
if we had to. But we knew our role and
our job was not only to perform, but it was
also to take care of the loneies, the the Ethiers.
Uh gow blessed Ethier, which he gave me another year's
service time because Donnie and Joe he had they had
some trouble and he was a hothead and I loved
him so but.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
No, the Manny situation and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So I felt like, you guys, you know what to
be there and to have you guys appreciate I mean,
Eric Milton was another one, Jeff Weaver. Each one of
us are older guys, really had a niche to where
when someone went down, we kind of filled in and
and and you made us feel like we were just
as important as as the as the Big three or
Big four.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Of the young guys were there and Kershaw.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, well you guys were. You know, I have great
respect for people who play at the level you played,
and you know you I'm a championship caliber players, you know,
Hall of famers, not not necessarily most of you. But
it didn't make any difference because you knew how to
win games, you knew how to bond together, you knew
how to fight through adversity. Because when you get to September,
(05:13):
and I was never with a team that you know,
my early Cub days were a little bit you know,
we weren't that good. But after we got to the
Giants and after that every team I was ever with
we competed to win. And I say that not flippantly,
but I mean we you know, we were built to compete.
And I always knew that I needed veteran guys who'd
been there before, who'd walk the walk, who knew what
(05:36):
September felt like, who knew what October felt like. When
you haven't been there before and your experience it for
the first time, it's tough.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
But all you guys.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
You mentioned at a great number of guys there that
I still stay in touch with a lot of them,
but they were very special, including yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I enjoyed. I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I didn't really have a lot of time on the field,
but I really enjoyed that group, and that just the
whole clubhouse thing was. And I always joke with Joe
because I had Joe in New York and you know,
and I said, I got to l A, I'm like, man,
you look twenty years younger and now you're doing you're
laying on a surfboard in a state farm. I don't
know you anymore I have of you, but so it
(06:16):
was just a perfect I said, I cherished every moment
I played there.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I loved every second of it.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
You know, moving forward to that, I want to hear
you how you got you're obviously Team Italy and WT
and how that got started, and how that how that's
how that's working out.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, it's it's one of the great honors of my career.
It's voluntary actually, so it's not like I'm doing it
to pay a bill. But uh marcol Missouri is the
president of the Italian Baseball Federation. He scouted for me
years ago. He scouted, he scouted Europe. Basically there's you know,
Netherlands got some players, Italy's got a few players. So
(06:53):
he always knew that I had an interest in helping
out the heritage of my family and where my grandparents
came from. So he became the president in November and
he called me and he says, I want you to
think about being a GM for Team Italy. And I thought, wow.
He says, don't tell me now, give it. You give
it a month's thought. You know, it's over the holidays.
So I came back. I says, yeah, I'm honored to
(07:15):
do it. I'm honored to do it. And so you know,
we're the David against the Golias. You got USA, you
got you know, Mexico, you got Puerto Rico, Dominican, Venezuela, Korea, Japan.
You've got a lot of big time teams there that
probably have two hundred players wanting to play. Italy we've
(07:36):
had some tough, some trouble getting players to play.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
We have enough.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I have a list DOUG of almost one hundred players
that we think would qualify heritage wise, and our rules
are a little bit different than those other countries I
mentioned as far as if you're allowed to play because
of your of your family heritage. But if half the
players who I've talked to who say yes or have
(08:01):
expressed an interest through their agents or whatever, if half
of them say yes, we're going to surprise some people.
So I just love to compete. I love the chance
to do something. I'd love the chance to make something better.
How we're gonna do I don't know. I know we're
going to compete like crazy. My goal is that in
the next WBC after this, there's one hundred players who
(08:22):
want to play, that we've become like the other countries
that have got two hundred players calling their their GM
of their their country to say hey, I want to
be a part of this. That's why I wanted to
get there, and I want Italian kids who are growing
up there now to see baseball and say, hey, you
know what, I can put soccer aside for a minute
and try and learn something else.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, that's a tough thing too.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I know the thing I have with the Olympics too,
that's very similar with who's available, who's going to say yes,
what team's gonna pull this guy backwards? A little bit different,
but it's kind of the same as far as who
says they're going to play it and they decide decide
not to. But I feel like anytime those games are awesome.
I mean those games are you know, I I wish
(09:05):
I feel like it does. But I thought that what
the NHL did with the Nation's game, I thought that
was I mean, it brought back my childhood of five or.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Six years old, Mikero Rozioni in.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
His jersey, and it's similar, but it's like it's I
think the Nation one in the NHL was so tight,
it was so like condensed that it's hard to do
the WBC that way. But the same passion goes the
same way, and I wish we could get more of
that for everything, for three games, for even I'm like,
even the Olympic Games have been coming up in LA
(09:38):
in twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
I hope we can tie.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Into some of that to bring it to the Olympic
Baseball team and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
So that's a.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Really cool thing. And I think I think everybody I
know I like watching the WBC. I'm as a player
and as a fan. I watch with a cringe because
I know when your brain and you're you're makeup wants
to dial up the intensity, but you realize it's February
and March, like, oh man, please.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Don't snap anything.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
But at the same time, those guys man like to
see the passion on everybody's face from their countries that you.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Can't You don't get that in Major League Baseball. You
don't use it. You can't, So kudos to you for
doing that. That's that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Little funny, little funny story about the about the cringe.
So Moyes Salou was a GM of the Dominican Republic
and I was with Moyses in San Francisco for a
year as his dad, Filippe, one of the best people
I've ever met, manage a team of the Giants team.
So he calls me and he says, I really need
you to let me have Hanley Ramirez. And I says,
(10:39):
you know, he's he's a big guy for us. You know,
I'd love to do it. He says, well, please please.
You know, I'll take care of me. You know, you know,
I said, all right, right, So we let him play.
So they get to the championship game and I think
Hanley may have been playing third and fifth inning. They're
trying to win the WBC ground ball to his left,
dives breaks the stuff out for so, yes, the cringe. Yes,
(11:05):
you do go through the cridge.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
It's a little scary. It's it's I can't imagine I
can't imagine me on the other side being like because
as a player, you think you're invincible. You're like, oh,
it's just a game. I can do this too. But
uh no, I it's tough for even the guys like
the Mirror, like I say, the Mere Mortals, they get
left back at spring training because now you're having to
play more.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Some of some teams you're on, no one goes, and
on some team everybody's gone.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
So like la, I feel like everybody goes going.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I was like, man, where the hell is everybody like
you went to Japan or career or something that, you know, Like, man,
y'all kind to leave people back.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Man, I'm too oldly playing these damn games every day
at nine Indians. I'm not wasn't built for this anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
But I want some want to ask you, like, how
how do you go from baseball to NHL?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Like you're a scout for the stands.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, I've been doing it for about seven eight years now.
I also kind of mentor coaching. NHL's far smaller. You've
got one minor league team basically American Hockey League team,
plus the NHL team. So when I went to the Dodgers,
and I'd always had an interest in hockey, always followed it,
and always was diligent with it. But when I went
(12:15):
to the Dodgers, I came from the Giants. So the
guy I would call for advice, you know, the experienced
guy was now my greatest rival, Brian Sabian, So he
couldn't call me anymore and I couldn't call him anymore.
And there were some years. I mean, we're still the
best of friends, but there's some years we refuse to
(12:36):
speak to each other because we were like the Red
Sox and the Yankees, how are you going to do
this right? So I became friends with nhlgms and I
would go to their practices. I would take my inner circle,
three or four my top scouts on Canadian trips after
Christmas to watch World Junior tournaments and we get to
(12:57):
see these guys, and I just got to know like
four or five tremendous gms, and we shared the same issues.
You know, we shared the issues, you know, players getting
cut and just walking out packing their stuff. You know,
I think I may have had a unique story, but
I mean, you know, we knew what we were all
going through. Service is different, the pay scales, different, salary
(13:21):
cap all that stuff is a bit different, but there's
so many similarities. So when I stopped being a GM,
before I started doing TV for the Dodgers, all of
them called and said, hey, you want to Swiss sports,
And I said, well, give me a year to think
about it. So I waited a year, and some of
my buddies started moving around to different teams and stuff
like that, and San Jose their GM, Doug Wilson had
(13:43):
been there for years, and you know I knew him
for a long long time. And he said, look, enough
of you pontificating and waiting on this thing, procrastinating. Why
don't you why don't you do this? So I said,
let's do it for a year, and I want to
scout for you, but I don't want to get paid.
I want to see if I like it, and I
(14:07):
want you to see if you like what I do,
and our friendship will never be in the balance. I'll
do this. You don't have to pay me. You know expenses.
You're gonna send me on the road for a week. Yeah,
that you're gonna cover, but you're not gonna You're not
gonna hire me. And so we did it, and when
the season got near the end, he called me, he says, look,
I'm ready to hire you. You do great work. You
(14:28):
see the game a different way. You know, athletes are athletes.
You know you start. I start at the feet. I
work my way up. How do the feet work? How
do the hands work? How does the mind work? In
every sport? As you know, Doug, you know there's a
split second a hitter's got to make a decision, you know,
for the listeners out there take a book and hold
a book out and drop it to the floor from
(14:48):
a time it leaves your hand or the time you
hit the floor, Doug Man caves. You got to figure
out if he's swinging and where he's swinging, what he
is he gonna try and do with it. That's how
much time you got hockey. You got a thousand of
them a day of It's instantaneous decision making. How do
they do it? It's a tough sport. How do they play?
How do they play at the end of games? How
do they play when the chips are down? So I
(15:09):
brought that experience with me and I and I just
carried it over and it's been great. It's been refreshing
to me. It's uh, it's been a great ad to
my career.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I'm sure that's at the end of the day. We're
all competitors. There's there's there's and I I equate this too.
I coached high school for three or four years, and
I would have a chat with the parents, like, I
don't expect you to understand me. I'm just different. I'm
built different, and I think I'm different than a lot
of the guys that I played with. But like my
(15:44):
like because you think I'm being hard on so and so,
it's because I expect I want more out of them,
and I don't like the deliverance might not be what
you think it should be. But at the end of
the day, like I know in my experience as a
manager in the my oor leagues, like some of the kids,
I was the hardest on.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I thought hated me.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And you know after six months after they're done playing
that I was their first reference for a job. And
of course, like, of course I would. They're scared to
ask me. I'm like, why are you scared to ask me?
Like I had a I was I was a small
part of an important part of your life. Of course
I'm going to do that. Like we may have had
our differences, but that's that's nothing to do with your future.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
And then so I.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Got I got a lot of I will say, I
got a lot of like I don't even know the
right word is, but I got a lot of glory.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I kind of it.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
May it humbled me to have these kids ask me
for this stuff, and I thought, you know what, and
it made me think. The three times I got fired,
I was like, you know what I'm doing it right
for the kids. I'm like, the players appreciate how I'm
doing it, and that's at the end of the day.
I know, and I learned through time that yes, there's
some things you have to do according to the organization,
(16:55):
but at the end of the day, the players respected
me enough to work and I thought that was a
really I felt like I was doing it right. You're
a product to how you're brought up.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I was brought up.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
By John Russell basically in the minor leagues, and he was,
I know, he was kind of a I won't say rogue,
but he was like, I'm gonna my job is to
get you to the big leagues, and the according to Hoyle,
is not going to work with you. And he went
around some things to kind of teach me that, and
I think and I saw it work and I loved it.
(17:27):
And I named my son after his son. So the
relationship lasts longer than the resume. So anyway, I also
want to tie into speaking of the general managers. Baseball
right now is going in that Devers, the Raphaeld Devers situation,
the Red Sox their basement. They wanted to move, They've
(17:49):
wanted to move twice it's a big topic on social media,
and all the guys that I talked to, you know,
as as now fans are old old hats or the
old players have a kind of a For me, I
have a player's perspective. I have a manager's perspective, and
I want to get like your perspective as a GM.
(18:10):
For me, I just feel like, yeah, everybody's so quick
to be like, well, he's got to be a team
player and he's got to move, and I'm like, well,
first of all, I'm like, hang on, if you think
first base that easy, you go over there, you go
over and lets some of these guys.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Somebody be it.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I ain't that easy. But I feel like, and this
is just me. And again I always start everything with like,
I'm not in the room. I'm not in the Red
Sox room. I don't know the conversations I have. Do
I know people in that organization, Yeah, of course, but
they're not going to give me everything I understand the situation.
To me, it feels like they didn't have this conversation before.
(18:47):
I feel like, if something out and now they're kind
of backtracking to where like, oh shit, cast is getting
hurt didn't help at all.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
But you take a kid who's you just.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Gave him three hundred million and ten years whatever they
gave him, and to me, and I know, the game
has changed a little bit, and it's the people.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
The kids are, the players are different.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
They babied them and now they're seeing a repercussion of
it because now he's like, now he's got some you know,
now he's got a ten year deal, three hundred million dollars.
He's the face of the franchise. Now he's like, am moving.
So I want to hear, like from a GM what
you like, how you would handle this.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, well it's I'll go back to what you said
initially on the topic. You know, I don't know, I
don't know what the conversations have been or how many
there have been, or when they occurred, or how they occurred,
or how they were broached or what they ended.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Up leading to.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
But it's you know, it's such a difficult situation. And
players have changed, you know, they've evolved. You know that
they were a little bit more independent than they were
ten years ago, twenty years ago, thirty years ago, which
isn't a bad thing. It's just it's just where they've
gone I've always believed that I needed to have conversations,
(20:03):
and I'm not saying they haven't. As I said, I
don't know what they have or have it, but it's
important that you you set the tone and you explain
where you're at ahead of time before you're ever going
to need the confrontational type of conversation. I say confrontational,
I don't mean two people yelling at each other. I
just mean a conversation where one party's going to come
(20:25):
in with one beauty, the other party's going to come
in with a different view. And you know you have
to do that. I mean you said it at the introduction.
How we you know, we let people know what they
were going to do.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
We let them know what.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Their role was, We let them know what the expectation was,
and yeah, sometimes it's going to change because of the
nature of the club or guys getting hurt and things
like that. So again not knowing what they did or
didn't do. You know, he's got the leverage because of
the deal, but he's also I would think, has the
responsibility to his other, to his teammates, and to the
(20:59):
organization to some extent to really do what they want
them to do. But again, you can't. I think it
would be far easier to take a first baseman and
make them into a DH. Then think of DH and
make them into a first baseman. You know, it's just
not you just don't do that. Hey, we have a
(21:19):
conversation on Monday, and Tuesday you're playing. You know, there's
a lot to it. Teams that people that think that
playing first base is not hard never had to do
it or never had a first baseman that couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I remember Joe Mauer when Joe Mayer made the move,
I remember, and God blessed Tom Kelly, one of the
best manager I ever had. I was managing the Twin
system at the time, and we had a half field
by our spring training site, and I kept peeking over
across the field because Tom Kelly had Joe Mauer one
on one, and.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I would go through. I went through my whole.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Morning, you know, spring training pfps and rundowns, and I'm
looking at my watch. We're going We're going on two
hours and forty five minutes and they haven't move yet.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
And I know TK he wants to give him the
whole entire Bible.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I remember, I walked over after that day and I
looked at him and I said, how are you doing?
He goes, I don't want to put this glove in
my hand. I go, I know, because they gave him
the entire playbook when you just need to open the book.
And that's when I kind of got involved in kind
of teaching them. Look, let's keep it real simple and basic.
But until you can put anybody anywhere for a day,
(22:26):
you start putting there every day.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Shit happens really fast.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I signed up to go to the third every once
in a while, four or five days in a row,
I was like, give me.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
The hell away from here. This shit happened way too fast.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
But I go back to what you said about the
conversations too, And I learned this as a manager over time,
I would I wanted to make my players. I always
feel like what we've talked about already twice about conversations
and being open, And then I felt I had to
sometimes I had to pull myself back because through my
like through the little ten years as I did, I
(23:01):
found myself sometimes saying stuff that when the organization changed,
it kind of caught me. I'm like, oh, shoot, I
shouldn't have said that, not that it was anything bad,
like whether it was like you're playing tomorrow or you're
not playing tomorrow. Trying to be I'm like, this isn't
the big leagues, this is the minor leagues. Should happens,
(23:21):
and you got to be able to like And I
remember like thinking, like, I gotta stop that. I got
to stop telling him that, you know, And I never
told him moves before they happened, because God forbid, the
kids know the moves before the staff. Now, I mean
Twitter and all that stuff, they find out before we do.
But I found my stuff, and that's kind of like
where I always go back to, you know, fans and stuff.
In today's world, they're talking about, well, you know, Dev
(23:43):
should move, he's not a team player. Hang on a second,
Derek Jeter didn't move. Is Derek Jeter not a team player?
He's the ultimate team player? And I said, well, you
can't just move guys. You can't stress defense and all
of a sudden, we're just gonna move you. This isn't
fantasy baseball. You just can't take the guy and move him.
It's not a figuring. So I see both sides of it.
(24:05):
You know, you just want to be you want to communicate.
I don't know, but it just seems like when Bregman
came on, that would be a conversation you would have
before you sign him.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Hey look I can I can add you some health here.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
This guy's October on October Warrior guy goes to the
post every day. He's a gamer. You put him in Fenway,
He's gonna wear that wall out. He's gonna give you protection.
He's a third baseman. What are your feelings? Are you
gonna be okay with this? Not to say that you
don't do it. You don't make the movie if the
player has a problem with it, but you talk about
it before it happens. And I think that's that to me,
(24:37):
that's where and that ties into kind of what I'm
talking about next. Like I always I want to ask
you your thoughts of what is the director of Baseball operations?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Like what in your mind what does that mean? Like?
What what is that? What does that title mean to you?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Let me let me go back one last thought on
on Deavors. If if if Devers would have or anybody says, hey,
I've never played it before, but I want to play
first base starting tomorrow, would the organization say yes, or
would the organizations say, you know what, I appreciate that,
but let's say if you work out there a week
(25:14):
or ten days, let's have you spend some time with
the outfielder with the drills and the cutoffs and the
relays and the bunt plays and holding a run around
and pickoffs. Let's let's not just put you out there.
You know, they probably wouldn't let that happen.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
So and to go on with that too. Even moving
devors at the h D is a tough position. Well, yeah,
it's a position.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
And I'm having this in the twin of the organizational
meetings when they were discussing moving Joe to first, Joe
marta first, and I was like and they're like, oh,
he might hit four fifty, and I go, you might
hit two forty. And they thought I was crazy, and
I was like, well, you don't understand the fact that
Joe has been squatting behind the plate his whole life.
And he is the elite of the elite hitter, right,
(25:58):
He's just a he's got he's that generational type. I
just can spray the ball around all over the field,
hit line drives in a sleep, I said, But half
his brain. When he goes to plate, it's a relief
because he's not worrying about pitch calling that stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Some people can handle that.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
You put him at first and now all he's doing
is thinking about swinging. We might have he might go backwards,
and they were like, we never thought about it that way.
I got, trust me, I would for years. I was like,
please let me move positions because it might get my
mind off my swing. Because all I'm thinking about over
here is my swing. So you know that goes both ways.
Just because you're moving into the h doesn't mean he's
(26:35):
going to keep the same numbers. And at some point
you gave him three hundred million dollars. Let him do
what he wants to do. Yes, we all know that
the move to first base is probably going to happen
in a ten year contract, but there's a progression to it.
And my whole thing was when he came to spring training,
you told him to throw his glove away and I
don't care if his shoulders hurd or not. You can
(26:56):
go take ground balls, and to me, a ground ball
is a ground ball on a corner.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
They come fast. There's a little faster.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Don't get me wrong, but at first, at least go
take round balls. At least keep in there in case.
I mean, heck, even David took round balls during the
course of the season just to kind of stay in
the in the you know, just a goof around and
break up the monotony of spring of budding practice. So
to me, that's where I'm like, just because you think
you can just move this guy to dah and everybody's
hunky dory.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
To me, DH, I wasn't. I only did it a
handful of times in my career, but I.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Felt like the DH was the hardest position on the
field because it's all you do is hit. You pinch
hit four times.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yes, exactly, exactly. Going to the Baseball Ops question the
director of you know, it's it may be different today
when I did it in San Francisco. You know, you oversee,
you're not the GM, but you're lik in the seat
next to it, and so you're handling a lot of
the day to day and player development, a lot of
(27:51):
the day to day and amateur scouting, international scouting, pro scouting.
You're handling a lot of the day to day so
the GM can concentrate on the big picture. GM is
about thirty thousand feet. The director of baseball Ops isn't
necessarily in the weeds, but can get into weeds because
you don't want your GM or your president of baseball
Ops sitting in the weeds. They have to be at
(28:13):
a thirty thousand foot level to see it.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
When you think about a.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Person who runs an organization, they got one hundred and
seventy five two hundred players, another seventy five staff people,
and it's an everyday sport. As you know, it ain't
playing They're not playing it once a week, they're playing.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
It every day.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
So every day you've got massive decision making. Guy gets
hurt in the big leagues, you've got a ripple effect
all the way down to a ball. You know, you
got all those things that the baseball ops position. That
position does a lot of the day to day and
can get into the weeds easier and more effectively than
the GM or the president of baseball ops.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I always say this. I always tell people too. It's
not to put it on this podcast. I think people
need to understand. We write reports every single night after
every game, and you wanted them over the phone still,
back and back when I first started, and then it
went to computers, but we still had to write a report,
and in some organizations we had to write a player
(29:10):
on write a report on every player we saw, whether
we was on our team or the other team. So,
you know, so the GM and all like their little
they'll always call the POSSE or whatever you want to
call it, Director of Baseball Operations.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
We're giving them. At the time, there was what six
seven different.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You're getting seven game wraps, box scores, each individual, Howie pitched,
number of pitches, here's the velos.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
This is what I.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Saw and then and that that's just that's an everyday occurrence,
let alone the team that you're in the big league. So,
like I said, the whole ripple effect. I always say,
the worst job in baseball is the triple A manager.
You gotta you better have the the the Mike Tyson
sparring gear on because you're gonna get kicked in the
head all day every day. Because their big leagues are
(29:58):
taking two year relievers, the only two you had that refreshed.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Now you get three guys back that can't throw.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And then you get the teams, the affiliates, the affiliate
place you're at, they're talking about they want to win.
I'm going, is there any way we can get rained
out because we don't have any arms tonight.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
But they don't want to hear that because we have
a big gate because it's firework, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So that's I was just curious about the director of
base Operations because you're starting to see college places at
college programs starting to have those and I would love
I trust me, I've beat down everybody I could. I
thought I didn't necessarily kind of like how you I
would need a paycheck, but like the way you do
(30:36):
with the NHL, I would wanted to kind of.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
I'm a Terry Ryan, bless his heart.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I know when he when I came back to the
Twins and I said, Terry, I would love to be
in the trenches with you upstairs because I feel like
we're lacking a player player and I can go do
the hard conversations. Not that he didn't want to do it.
He just hated conflict, and I'm like, well, I live
(31:00):
for conflicts, so I can be I can be your
little dog that bounces around and kind of goes at
these and goes but it gives you the player's side
and perspective of when he goes, Doug are too important
to be on the field, and I thought, okay, great,
but I also felt like I would have loved to
been next to him for a year to better me
as a manager going down the road to be like, okay,
(31:23):
team building, right, and you see the you know you guys.
You guys go into your offices and there's the people
that don't know they have the list of all the
players and they have they all have their own little
codes and little docs. And when he's arbitration eligible, what's this,
what's his service time?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Whant to see a free agent?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
And they and it's it's it's And you can walk
in there and think it's Japanese and it doesn't make
any sense. But when you start to be around a
little bit, you're like, oh my gosh, this makes sense.
And I tell people all the time fans now that
I'm out of it, like just because they didn't go
get the free agent this year doesn't mean like that
means they have their eye on somebody.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
It's just not this offseason. It's it might be two
off seasons down the.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Road, but they have their righte on somebody that's gonna
wrap up this edition of the Dugout Podcast with me
and your host, Dougman Kabridge can't thank Ned Kaletti enough.
Holy Moly, is there something this man hasn't done. Looking
forward to more episodes with Ned and like us subscribe
anywhere you find your podcast, Apple, Spotify, check us out
(32:22):
the Dugout Podcast. Till next week, we'll be seeing you
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