December 11, 2024 • 25 mins
Doug dives into Juan Soto's MASSIVE 15-year, $765 Million contract with the New York Mets. Doug explores what this means for the Yankees, what the Mets need to capitalize on their championship window, and the broader impact on MLB.
Doug also has shares some strong takes about the 'Golden At-Bat' rule recently floated by Rob Manfred.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome back, everybody. I'm your host Doug mn Kavich of
the Dugout Podcast. Today's episode, we'll be discussing the Wan
Soto deal, the potential shift change in New York, and
something I'm pretty perturbed about, the golden at bat rule.
Mister Manfred, I'd like to have a little rent and
(00:27):
talk to you, so, without further ado, let's get this
thing cranking. Juan Soto fifteen years, seven hundred and sixty
five million. Try to say that with a straight face.
What a wonderful time to be a baseball player. Seventy
five million dollars signing bonus average AAV of fifty one.
(00:48):
What does that mean? Annual average value? Fifty one million dollars.
I think the key to this deal is the opt
out after five years. He can opt out, but the
Mets can keep that option for them if they add
five years to per year his salary the last ten.
So that's a little nugget that really changes things a
(01:11):
little bit. It puts a lot of heat on the
Mets to become really good, really fast. An opt out
after five think about that. He's gonna be the beauty
of this thing. Juan Soto's twenty six years old. Twenty
six and a free agent, which means you are already
a generational player to begin with. Now you have an
(01:32):
opportunity to get this get this deal twice as far
as the long term deal. So at twenty six, he'll
be thirty one, which is usually what prime for what
most free agents turn into. So he has a chance
to break the bank twice, not only once. The one
thing about long term deals, the scary part is is
(01:53):
the beginning. You pay big time up front and know
it's gonna cost you badly down the You look at
Albert pooh hoos, you go Cabrera. You pay for the
front end of it, and hopefully by then three to
five years from now the Mets have a couple of
championships and no one says a word. But you pay
up front. The guys that I just mentioned the pool,
(02:13):
host the Cabreras, give them a chance to see them
play every day. It's a it's a it's a memory
that fathers and sons will have for the rest of
their lives. They will be able to say that, hopefully
Juan Soto stays with the Mets for all fifteen years,
you will have people there's kids that aren't even a
thought process being born will sit with their father, their
grandfather and be able to tell their kids that they
(02:36):
got to see Juan Sota play at City Field. So
this is a This is a huge springboard in baseball.
In my opinion, you always last year, the offseason took forever. Right. Usually,
how this works is one of the number one free
agent signs. The rest will follow. Hats off biggest winner,
Scott Boris. He's making fifty six plus million, if not more.
(02:58):
At this point, I think I saw something he So
far his free agents have have have earned one point
one to three billion. It's not Christmas yet. It's gonna
be a really good Christmas at the Boris household. Don't
forget my address. I think you have it, Scott, Thank you.
Hats off to Steve Cohen. Right, you made a ton
of enemies around baseball, There's no doubt about it. But
(03:21):
good for you. You won a winner. You're gonna do whatever
you can to get it. This is not nothing new
for the Mets. They've they've always tried to steal the
back page, but they never understood that it took wins
to do that. Mets have won the back page before
I was there in two thousand and five, we signed
Carlos Beltrand huge. We just didn't win enough, that's all
(03:43):
it was. But we had he had, we had some
splash moments, we had Piazza, we had, we had some
guys Pedro, Tom Glavin, I'm Cliff Floyd, Mike Cameron. We're
leaving out some guys. But David Wright was young Jose Reyes,
so we have had the back page before. Now it's
just a matter of putting wins on it. I think
you break this contract down, and I know Wan Soto
(04:06):
has talked about money and you know what good for you?
Absolutely go get yours. You've earned it. No one, if
anyone in their right mind has a problem with this.
If anybody offered you ten dollars to do a five
dollars job, there's not a person out there is going
to say no to this. So it's not the player's fault.
He got what he what they were willing to give him,
(04:27):
and he asked for it. And that's that's what the
the world works. No one just says, you know what,
let me do this for nothing better, yet let me
pay you to do this job. It doesn't work that
way that being said, I really truly believe you're starting
to see a shift in power in New York. We
will see I can't think of another time when a
Yankee free agent left for the Mets. When has that happened.
(04:52):
I'm trying to think. I've been thinking for three days.
I don't know. I just can't remember when someone in
their prime, who's a generational player chose the Mets over
the Yankees. I think if you go back to previous
episodes of the Dugout podcast, we talked about this during
the World Series. I said during the World Series, something
changed in Juan Sota's demeanor, something changed in his face.
(05:15):
He looked tired. Granted, they're all tired, they're mentally tired.
But Juan Soto played as well as he possibly could
in the World Series and in the postseason and he
still didn't win. That had a wearing effect on him.
Don't think that that didn't have anything to do with
this deal. And if you go back, the Dodgers played,
the Mets played the Dodgers tougher than the Yankees did,
(05:37):
and don't think that doesn't add into it. So I
think the Mets are on the up. The Yankees. I
don't know anymore. I just don't know. They didn't. They
didn't look very competitive in the World Series with Juan Soto,
and we'll get into that later. But this is this
is the Mets day. Let them have it. Are they finished? No,
they have to go, and they have to go now.
(05:58):
They have a five year window that opt out is
real and if things go south, he will opt out
and do this all over again. So they need pitching, starters, bullpen,
they need everything. They needed first baseman. Will they lose
Pete Alonzo? I don't know. I don't I don't doubt
a man that's worth twenty one point three billion dollars.
(06:21):
I mean, he also had This is the same owner
that had a lot of pitchers on their team a
few years ago. Granted they all got hurt, but he's
not afraid to pull this deal off. He's not finished.
So to me, Alonso makes more sense now than he
did before. You can say that. We'll talk about that
later about the Yankees, but I think Alonso means more
(06:43):
to the Mets now with soda than he did without.
And I thought he was their backbone and their art
beat last year. So I just think they need more offense.
Their their offense is not their Their lineup's just not
deep enough. But I don't think they're finished. There's a
lot of options. They can go to Bregmant. I mean,
if Youento's to first base, if you lose Alonso, there's
(07:03):
a lot of moving parts you can kind of do this.
I don't think a trader finished yet. I think there's
some intricate parts you can move. And this is when
this is why you build up your farm system right here.
If you're a big market team, this is why you
have patience with your prospects, because when your window opens,
like it does right now, you go ahead and give
(07:24):
up everything you possibly can. Look what the Yankees did
to get Sodo. You don't think they wanted the Michael
Kings of the world be in their rotation. They look
a starter or too short in the World Series. King
would have been significantly a significant upgrade to what they
had to start. So your window is closing, it's just opening.
But it's also that five years is a short window.
(07:44):
The Dodgers are not gonna stop, so neither is Steve Cohen.
And this is gonna be This is pretty much change
changed the dynamic of the American League dominance for a
long time. In my opinion, the National League is getting deeper.
I think they're better, They're deeper, and the superpower teams
are shifting to the National League, and that's I think
(08:08):
that's good for baseball. I think anytime a New York team,
if not both of them, are are relevant, really relevant.
It's it's a wonderful thing for baseball. It creates that
buzz downtown in New York that you know, you're eight
what are you seven? Eight miles apart? That Subway series
is real. But also you have the West Coast, you
(08:29):
have the Dodgers, so you have this world. You know,
Like I said, we talked about this in previous episodes,
when you have the La Boston kind of feel NBA
feel to Major League Baseball, it's a good thing. I
don't think you're saying that if you are a Royals fan,
if you're a smaller market team, you're not loving this.
It's kind of irritating, and it's it's kind of it's
(08:51):
changed the way we've thought of things, and it's been
this way for thirty forty years. It's if you're a
Twins fan, you're probably pretty upset about this going, you know,
but then again, you're used to it. This is nothing new.
The Guardians are still winning and they're proven that it
can be done. And the Al Central through had three
teams in the playoffs. So now we go over to
(09:13):
the other team in New York, the Yankees. What does
this mean for you? I think you're shocked. I think
for the first time in Yankee history, the best player
chose your little brother over you. I don't know that
how that translates to the fan base, yet I get
(09:34):
it the Yankee fans. Now it's kind of comical because
you look all over the place and now it's Juan
Soto can't play defense, and he wasn't this, and wasn't that.
It's like the girlfriend that picked somebody else and now
she's ugly and fat, when before she was a twelve.
So I get it. You guys just can't admit it.
But this looks really bad now that being said, moving forward,
(09:56):
it was a win win and a lose lose. In
my opinion, Yes, you want one, so them, but when
you're not willing to give make him the top paid
player aav WI and I mean by by year, what
he's making per year. Because the Yankees gave the same
amount of money the Mets did with an extra year.
That knocks down the average annual salary. And that means
something to these guys. You know, I ask Alex, Alex
(10:19):
was you know that was a big deal? And I
get it. These guys are just wired different, you know,
a rod's wired different. That's why they're the great, the
best of the best. They want to be known as
the best, and that being paid in this industry means
you are the best. So I give they're just wired differently,
even than average baseball players. So they want to be
the best. They want to get paid like the best.
(10:40):
They want to put that feather in their cap that
they were the highest paid player the Yankees. I don't.
Maybe I think they're better off because of this in
the long run, depending on how they move this. I
think three or four players for let's say half of
that month, half of that seven fifty can be more
beneficial than one at seven to fifty. I think it's
a It gives them an opportunity to pivot their philosophy.
(11:04):
They went all in, right, they traded. We just talked
about this with the Mets. How they can trade their
farm system. Well, the Yankees traded their farm system to
get Juan Soto and they still came up short in
the World Series. So instead of signing him, they're gonna
maybe they shift a little bit, Maybe they try to
get more actual guys that play their own position instead
of keep switching guys all over the place. Again, this
(11:25):
is not fantasy baseball. There's some reality stuff to this
where you can go get a Carvin Burns, Max Freed
at least attempt to get him. Alex Bregman. I don't
know how that works. They've Brian Cash has been really
adamant about throwing shade at the Astros. Still five years whatever,
how many years later, I don't know if you bring
(11:45):
an Astro into your clubhouse. So that's a whole different
episode or a whole different story. But it might be
the changing of their philosophy. They realize what they thought
they were they weren't, And to me, this is a
whole other episode. But they signed long term the wrong guy.
They signed the wrong guy a long term and I
know they weren't at the same time. And I'm talking
(12:06):
about Aaron Judge. Aaron Judge and Juan Soto were not
free agents at the same year. But if you're plan
let's put it this way, Brian Cashman didn't wake up
and hel Steimer didn't wake up in a day and go, Man,
I really want to trade for Juan Soda. They don't
do that. This thing's thought out years in advance. That
equation or that question had to come up. And to me,
(12:30):
if you're gonna take the Yankees are about what winning championships.
They don't care about MVPs. They don't care about Al's titles.
They've got thousands of those. They want championships. And if
you want championships, you pay the guy who performs better
in October. No one can deny the difference between Juan
(12:50):
Soto and October and Aaron Judge in October. You take
the better player in October when your franchise is built
on championship or busts. Yes, that's a long drawn out process,
but these guys are very smart at what they do.
This is thought out. This could have been thought of,
and it could have been done, and it should have
been a question that came up three years ago. Yes,
(13:11):
there's a possibility you don't get Wan Sodo, but these
GMS and these owners, the gms, they talk to each
other so often and they know what it takes to
pull off that trade. And when your prospects get to
that point, you have a pretty good idea that, all right,
it's gonna take these three, four or five guys. Well,
now I've got them at the right time to pull
(13:32):
this deal off. You took the wrong guy, you paid
the wrong guy. The wrong guy is still there, and
the guy you should have paid is now across town.
And now you have to stare at it. What do
the Yankees do do They go get more pitching, they
get carbon burns, they go get Max Freed. They're gonna
have to take to get some pressure off your horse.
(13:56):
Garrett Cole's getting older. You proved last year he can't
do it alone. So bullpen help. You just lost Clay Holmes.
I know Yankee fans are on the fence about that one,
but sixth them and Clay Holmes was pretty damn good.
It's not a fun at bat, I think anybody you ask,
it's not a fun at bat, I think either side.
So you need depth pitchings out there. Pitching to me,
(14:19):
the relievers, the high end ones, Yes, they're tough to
get a hold of. But the depth of your pen
is relatively easier to attain than a starter or a
significant bat. So the pieces of the puzzle are there.
Do the Yankees go after? There's options. Santander from Baltimore
forty four homers last year, switch hitter. To me, he's
(14:43):
about the same defender. I saw this kid in Norfolk
for two years managing with the Tiger system. But he
can hit, so there's offense there. Again. We talked about Bregman.
What do you do. You can put Bregman at third,
move Jazz to second. To me, my main priority. But
the problem with Santander is that you still have Judge
(15:05):
playing center. To me, I find a way to get
Jazz and center, put Judge back and right and do
whatever I can and get Alonzo. The problem is they
need a left handed bat, and that's where to me,
Santander and Alonso kind of makes sense. But they've got
some options. They've gotta they've got to have a plan,
they've got to move now. Maybe they don't do much,
(15:27):
Maybe there's someone down the road who's a free agent
next year that they're thinking about. So it's gonna be
interesting to see what happens usually time. But to see
Lindor and Soto in the same lineup, that's gonna be fun.
That's gonna be it's like the whole you know, the
Latin flavor of Queens. This is gonna be epic. I
remember when Pedro would pitch. It was a it was
(15:47):
a wonderful night. Jose Ray is playing short Pedro on
the mound. It was pretty epic. It was pretty special.
It was fun to go out there and play those games.
There was a vibe that that the city, he's alive,
the ballpark was was was jumping. It was that you
knew significantly who was pitching and who was playing. So
(16:08):
that's a good thing. That's a good thing for the game.
It's a good thing for for Mets fans. It's gonna
be it's gonna be fun to watch. They're gonna be
it's gonna be loud, it's gonna be electric. So you know,
you got them for I said, don't let the fifteen
years fool you. You've got them for five. So constrat
on the first five. I like to sum this up
for me, there's a lot of questions the Mets. Now
(16:29):
what you keep pushing, keep going. You're not done yet.
You have a five year window. Yankees. This is an
ultimate ego gut punch. This has never happened to you before.
You've never lost anything to the Mets before ever, especially
not player wise, players that are significant. This is a
you can see a changing of the guard here. It's
(16:51):
a matter of where each team goes forward. The Yankees,
they can get deeper, they can get more players for
that amount of money. They traded their pretty much a
lot of young talent to get Soto in the first place,
and this will be the first time in my opinion,
the Yankees will have to face this. Usually, when they
pull off a trade and they unload some of their
(17:13):
prospects to get an established player, they have the ability
to retain that established player. They didn't do it this time.
So now do you rush to judgment and just spend
to spend or do you have this Have you had
this well thought out plan going forward to where if
(17:33):
this backfires any good business, you have a plan A,
a plan B. And what if everything goes wrong, Let's
not panic, Let's hold the fort. So interesting to see
where both teams go with this. Obviously, the Mets have
a lot of momentum with this, but with momentum with
high salaries, comes expectations. I think you saw Lindor deal
(17:54):
with it his first year. And the one beautiful thing
about Sodo, he's already done it. It's seven and a
half miles away. And yes, I played for both of them.
I thought playing for the Yankees was a little bit
easier than it was for the Mets, and that's just
my opinion. I think he will find that out front
(18:15):
his own. But it's all about playing well, and these
guys are great players. Juan Soto is probably the best
left handed hitter since Ted Williams. I mean that's saying something.
This dude's swing is just it's almost slump proof. So
he's gonna hit, he's gonna play hard. He has his
snorl to him everything you want. And that's my biggest
question going forward the Yankees, all your grit has left
(18:37):
the building, all of it. Rizzo, Soto, all your snarl
is gone. You're left with a bunch of in my opinion,
Prima Donna, kind of soft, not very you know you didn't.
You don't have anybody who's gonna do the dirty work
when things are going great, it's fantastic. But who's gonna
(18:59):
be the guy it's gonna stop the bleeding one day.
Who's your grit guy, who's your glue guy? Where are they?
Who's your gonna, you know, bear down and be a bulldog.
I don't see it. I don't see it. So it's
they're both. To me, the Yankees are right across roads.
I'd still believe in not signing Soda was a win
(19:20):
for them. I think they have the possibilities to really
really become a deeper, better team. Yankee fans are used
to getting the high quality player. Let's get high quality
teammates and depth. So use that seven hundred plus million
to shift into becoming a deeper squad, a more multifaceted squad,
(19:45):
A squad that's not gonna drop pop ups in the outfield,
a squad that's not gonna look like they're absolutely drunk
running the bases. Things like that. Get baseball players, and
I think you have some volpe uh jazz. I think
they're they're baseball players. I think get get guys like that.
You don't need the big name. You need the wedge
breaker on the kickoff team. You gotta surround him somewhere
(20:07):
so it's gonna be interesting. Is that what? Winter meetings
just started? And hats off Scott Boris. God bless you, sir.
He's the biggest winner here, one point one three billion
dollars in signing so far and he still has seven
or eight to come. God bless you, my son. That
is outstanding. All the stuff everybody said last year, oh
(20:30):
you know, this is this, and this is that he's
smiling now, it's gonna be one hell of a Christmas
at Scott Boris's house, which it always is. But uh,
I used to be not a fan until I got
a chance to sit down and meet him and talk
to him. You know what, he's doing his job. He's
getting the best for his players. God bless him. You know,
ain't not like him, but you respect him, and I
(20:51):
like him and respect him. So kudos to to Scott
Boris for getting what he has to get for his
for his his A list is a list, guys. Let's
move on to something that really irritated me, which we
all I think we're all on the same page. Golden
at bat rule. Mister Manfred. I know this was probably
(21:13):
just a joke, but it was brought up someone wasted
their breath on this question and this thought. We are
not the Savannah bananas. The fact that we even are
even contemplating something that the Savannah bananas do in actual
Major League baseball is quite alarming. We've already seen bigger bases.
(21:36):
We've already seen the pitch clock, We've already seen the
limited throwovers uncle like golden at bat rule. Are we
trying like this is? You've already altered record books and
I have a problem. I'm all for making the game better,
right we could all say that the robo umpires are
(21:57):
on their way, which I'm not a fan of either.
But NFL has instant replay college football. There's gonna be changes,
and there should be to some of the some of
the rules and some of the things. But when you
alter records and when you dumb down the game for
everyone to be successful, for more people to be successful,
(22:17):
I have an issue with that. The game is hard
for a reason. There's a reason why only one percent
make it, because it's extremely difficult. Stop making it easier.
Bigger bases. We saw more stolen bases. Well, the bigger
base plus not being able to throw over like we
have to, we have that those are things that are
changing records in history of baseball. If Ricky Henderson had
(22:43):
these rules, he would be still two hundred bases in
a season, without question, not even close. So let's stop.
It's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the hard
that makes this sport great. That's why we do this.
But the goal to that rule if if I'm sure
everyone that's listening to this already knows what it is,
but if you don't, basically they're letting. You're allowed to
(23:06):
pinch hit anybody at any given time, at any given
moment of the game. So let's just say you have
show Hey Otani, he's hitting, base, is loaded, nobody out,
Show Hey strikes out, he's walking back to the dugout.
Dave Roberts said, I want to insert show Heyo Tani again.
(23:27):
So now you're gonna have to Now you're gonna have
to pitch to him twice. So this is where it
gets tricky. What if he's on base? What do you do? Then? Okay,
so let's say show he's at second and you want
show Hey to hit again. Who goes runs at second?
Show Hey hits a single guy from second? Scores who
(23:51):
gets the run, score show, Hey Show, Hey A show,
Hey b or the pinch runner. Usually it's the pinch runner.
So there's a lot of missing parts to this. And
then you throw in can you make a pitchon change
in the middle of it? Can you strike him out
right handed and then turn around and bringing the left
eat and face them. So there's a lot of million
ways to go about this. And I get it. The
(24:12):
game sports are entertainment. I understand that. But isn't this
already entertaining enough? Do we have to make it so
like we don't have Like I get the part of
no one wants to see their best player or their
favorite player left on deck. That's the worst feeling in
the world. But that's what makes this game so interesting
(24:33):
and so fun and so intense. Are those moments where
you know who's on deck you're taking away how you
can say you're adding some intrigue to it, but you're
really not. And because what do you do And we're
in a world now where mental health is huge, right,
what do you do to the guy on deck who
(24:55):
thinks he's going to hit and you go hit somebody
else for him? It's true, man, this guy thinks I
just think all right, I wear this guy out and
he still thinks this guy's better than me. So there's
many options to us. I understand trying to make things better.
But let's let's let's let's let the Savannah Bananas do
their own thing. And let's you know, the NBA didn't
(25:17):
didn't adopt anything the Harlem Globetrotters were doing. They weren't.
They don't, they never did, So let's not do this
in baseball, all right, everybody, that's gonna wrap up this
episode of the Dugout Podcast. Keep checking us out for
Winter Meeting updates, while the future moves in free agency
and what's going on in the baseball world and every
(25:38):
other world in sports. Come check us out Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio,
wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, Come check us out.
Until next time, Doug mccaviage, the Dugout Niece,
Welcome back, everybody. I'm your host Doug mn Kavich of
the Dugout Podcast. Today's episode, we'll be discussing the Wan
Soto deal, the potential shift change in New York, and
something I'm pretty perturbed about, the golden at bat rule.
Mister Manfred, I'd like to have a little rent and
(00:27):
talk to you, so, without further ado, let's get this
thing cranking. Juan Soto fifteen years, seven hundred and sixty
five million. Try to say that with a straight face.
What a wonderful time to be a baseball player. Seventy
five million dollars signing bonus average AAV of fifty one.
(00:48):
What does that mean? Annual average value? Fifty one million dollars.
I think the key to this deal is the opt
out after five years. He can opt out, but the
Mets can keep that option for them if they add
five years to per year his salary the last ten.
So that's a little nugget that really changes things a
(01:11):
little bit. It puts a lot of heat on the
Mets to become really good, really fast. An opt out
after five think about that. He's gonna be the beauty
of this thing. Juan Soto's twenty six years old. Twenty
six and a free agent, which means you are already
a generational player to begin with. Now you have an
(01:32):
opportunity to get this get this deal twice as far
as the long term deal. So at twenty six, he'll
be thirty one, which is usually what prime for what
most free agents turn into. So he has a chance
to break the bank twice, not only once. The one
thing about long term deals, the scary part is is
(01:53):
the beginning. You pay big time up front and know
it's gonna cost you badly down the You look at
Albert pooh hoos, you go Cabrera. You pay for the
front end of it, and hopefully by then three to
five years from now the Mets have a couple of
championships and no one says a word. But you pay
up front. The guys that I just mentioned the pool,
(02:13):
host the Cabreras, give them a chance to see them
play every day. It's a it's a it's a memory
that fathers and sons will have for the rest of
their lives. They will be able to say that, hopefully
Juan Soto stays with the Mets for all fifteen years,
you will have people there's kids that aren't even a
thought process being born will sit with their father, their
grandfather and be able to tell their kids that they
(02:36):
got to see Juan Sota play at City Field. So
this is a This is a huge springboard in baseball.
In my opinion, you always last year, the offseason took forever. Right. Usually,
how this works is one of the number one free
agent signs. The rest will follow. Hats off biggest winner,
Scott Boris. He's making fifty six plus million, if not more.
(02:58):
At this point, I think I saw something he So
far his free agents have have have earned one point
one to three billion. It's not Christmas yet. It's gonna
be a really good Christmas at the Boris household. Don't
forget my address. I think you have it, Scott, Thank you.
Hats off to Steve Cohen. Right, you made a ton
of enemies around baseball, There's no doubt about it. But
(03:21):
good for you. You won a winner. You're gonna do whatever
you can to get it. This is not nothing new
for the Mets. They've they've always tried to steal the
back page, but they never understood that it took wins
to do that. Mets have won the back page before
I was there in two thousand and five, we signed
Carlos Beltrand huge. We just didn't win enough, that's all
(03:43):
it was. But we had he had, we had some
splash moments, we had Piazza, we had, we had some
guys Pedro, Tom Glavin, I'm Cliff Floyd, Mike Cameron. We're
leaving out some guys. But David Wright was young Jose Reyes,
so we have had the back page before. Now it's
just a matter of putting wins on it. I think
you break this contract down, and I know Wan Soto
(04:06):
has talked about money and you know what good for you?
Absolutely go get yours. You've earned it. No one, if
anyone in their right mind has a problem with this.
If anybody offered you ten dollars to do a five
dollars job, there's not a person out there is going
to say no to this. So it's not the player's fault.
He got what he what they were willing to give him,
(04:27):
and he asked for it. And that's that's what the
the world works. No one just says, you know what,
let me do this for nothing better, yet let me
pay you to do this job. It doesn't work that
way that being said, I really truly believe you're starting
to see a shift in power in New York. We
will see I can't think of another time when a
Yankee free agent left for the Mets. When has that happened.
(04:52):
I'm trying to think. I've been thinking for three days.
I don't know. I just can't remember when someone in
their prime, who's a generational player chose the Mets over
the Yankees. I think if you go back to previous
episodes of the Dugout podcast, we talked about this during
the World Series. I said during the World Series, something
changed in Juan Sota's demeanor, something changed in his face.
(05:15):
He looked tired. Granted, they're all tired, they're mentally tired.
But Juan Soto played as well as he possibly could
in the World Series and in the postseason and he
still didn't win. That had a wearing effect on him.
Don't think that that didn't have anything to do with
this deal. And if you go back, the Dodgers played,
the Mets played the Dodgers tougher than the Yankees did,
(05:37):
and don't think that doesn't add into it. So I
think the Mets are on the up. The Yankees. I
don't know anymore. I just don't know. They didn't. They
didn't look very competitive in the World Series with Juan Soto,
and we'll get into that later. But this is this
is the Mets day. Let them have it. Are they finished? No,
they have to go, and they have to go now.
(05:58):
They have a five year window that opt out is
real and if things go south, he will opt out
and do this all over again. So they need pitching, starters, bullpen,
they need everything. They needed first baseman. Will they lose
Pete Alonzo? I don't know. I don't I don't doubt
a man that's worth twenty one point three billion dollars.
(06:21):
I mean, he also had This is the same owner
that had a lot of pitchers on their team a
few years ago. Granted they all got hurt, but he's
not afraid to pull this deal off. He's not finished.
So to me, Alonso makes more sense now than he
did before. You can say that. We'll talk about that
later about the Yankees, but I think Alonso means more
(06:43):
to the Mets now with soda than he did without.
And I thought he was their backbone and their art
beat last year. So I just think they need more offense.
Their their offense is not their Their lineup's just not
deep enough. But I don't think they're finished. There's a
lot of options. They can go to Bregmant. I mean,
if Youento's to first base, if you lose Alonso, there's
(07:03):
a lot of moving parts you can kind of do this.
I don't think a trader finished yet. I think there's
some intricate parts you can move. And this is when
this is why you build up your farm system right here.
If you're a big market team, this is why you
have patience with your prospects, because when your window opens,
like it does right now, you go ahead and give
(07:24):
up everything you possibly can. Look what the Yankees did
to get Sodo. You don't think they wanted the Michael
Kings of the world be in their rotation. They look
a starter or too short in the World Series. King
would have been significantly a significant upgrade to what they
had to start. So your window is closing, it's just opening.
But it's also that five years is a short window.
(07:44):
The Dodgers are not gonna stop, so neither is Steve Cohen.
And this is gonna be This is pretty much change
changed the dynamic of the American League dominance for a
long time. In my opinion, the National League is getting deeper.
I think they're better, They're deeper, and the superpower teams
are shifting to the National League, and that's I think
(08:08):
that's good for baseball. I think anytime a New York team,
if not both of them, are are relevant, really relevant.
It's it's a wonderful thing for baseball. It creates that
buzz downtown in New York that you know, you're eight
what are you seven? Eight miles apart? That Subway series
is real. But also you have the West Coast, you
(08:29):
have the Dodgers, so you have this world. You know,
Like I said, we talked about this in previous episodes,
when you have the La Boston kind of feel NBA
feel to Major League Baseball, it's a good thing. I
don't think you're saying that if you are a Royals fan,
if you're a smaller market team, you're not loving this.
It's kind of irritating, and it's it's kind of it's
(08:51):
changed the way we've thought of things, and it's been
this way for thirty forty years. It's if you're a
Twins fan, you're probably pretty upset about this going, you know,
but then again, you're used to it. This is nothing new.
The Guardians are still winning and they're proven that it
can be done. And the Al Central through had three
teams in the playoffs. So now we go over to
(09:13):
the other team in New York, the Yankees. What does
this mean for you? I think you're shocked. I think
for the first time in Yankee history, the best player
chose your little brother over you. I don't know that
how that translates to the fan base, yet I get
(09:34):
it the Yankee fans. Now it's kind of comical because
you look all over the place and now it's Juan
Soto can't play defense, and he wasn't this, and wasn't that.
It's like the girlfriend that picked somebody else and now
she's ugly and fat, when before she was a twelve.
So I get it. You guys just can't admit it.
But this looks really bad now that being said, moving forward,
(09:56):
it was a win win and a lose lose. In
my opinion, Yes, you want one, so them, but when
you're not willing to give make him the top paid
player aav WI and I mean by by year, what
he's making per year. Because the Yankees gave the same
amount of money the Mets did with an extra year.
That knocks down the average annual salary. And that means
something to these guys. You know, I ask Alex, Alex
(10:19):
was you know that was a big deal? And I
get it. These guys are just wired different, you know,
a rod's wired different. That's why they're the great, the
best of the best. They want to be known as
the best, and that being paid in this industry means
you are the best. So I give they're just wired differently,
even than average baseball players. So they want to be
the best. They want to get paid like the best.
(10:40):
They want to put that feather in their cap that
they were the highest paid player the Yankees. I don't.
Maybe I think they're better off because of this in
the long run, depending on how they move this. I
think three or four players for let's say half of
that month, half of that seven fifty can be more
beneficial than one at seven to fifty. I think it's
a It gives them an opportunity to pivot their philosophy.
(11:04):
They went all in, right, they traded. We just talked
about this with the Mets. How they can trade their
farm system. Well, the Yankees traded their farm system to
get Juan Soto and they still came up short in
the World Series. So instead of signing him, they're gonna
maybe they shift a little bit, Maybe they try to
get more actual guys that play their own position instead
of keep switching guys all over the place. Again, this
(11:25):
is not fantasy baseball. There's some reality stuff to this
where you can go get a Carvin Burns, Max Freed
at least attempt to get him. Alex Bregman. I don't
know how that works. They've Brian Cash has been really
adamant about throwing shade at the Astros. Still five years whatever,
how many years later, I don't know if you bring
(11:45):
an Astro into your clubhouse. So that's a whole different
episode or a whole different story. But it might be
the changing of their philosophy. They realize what they thought
they were they weren't, And to me, this is a
whole other episode. But they signed long term the wrong guy.
They signed the wrong guy a long term and I
know they weren't at the same time. And I'm talking
(12:06):
about Aaron Judge. Aaron Judge and Juan Soto were not
free agents at the same year. But if you're plan
let's put it this way, Brian Cashman didn't wake up
and hel Steimer didn't wake up in a day and go, Man,
I really want to trade for Juan Soda. They don't
do that. This thing's thought out years in advance. That
equation or that question had to come up. And to me,
(12:30):
if you're gonna take the Yankees are about what winning championships.
They don't care about MVPs. They don't care about Al's titles.
They've got thousands of those. They want championships. And if
you want championships, you pay the guy who performs better
in October. No one can deny the difference between Juan
(12:50):
Soto and October and Aaron Judge in October. You take
the better player in October when your franchise is built
on championship or busts. Yes, that's a long drawn out process,
but these guys are very smart at what they do.
This is thought out. This could have been thought of,
and it could have been done, and it should have
been a question that came up three years ago. Yes,
(13:11):
there's a possibility you don't get Wan Sodo, but these
GMS and these owners, the gms, they talk to each
other so often and they know what it takes to
pull off that trade. And when your prospects get to
that point, you have a pretty good idea that, all right,
it's gonna take these three, four or five guys. Well,
now I've got them at the right time to pull
(13:32):
this deal off. You took the wrong guy, you paid
the wrong guy. The wrong guy is still there, and
the guy you should have paid is now across town.
And now you have to stare at it. What do
the Yankees do do They go get more pitching, they
get carbon burns, they go get Max Freed. They're gonna
have to take to get some pressure off your horse.
(13:56):
Garrett Cole's getting older. You proved last year he can't
do it alone. So bullpen help. You just lost Clay Holmes.
I know Yankee fans are on the fence about that one,
but sixth them and Clay Holmes was pretty damn good.
It's not a fun at bat, I think anybody you ask,
it's not a fun at bat, I think either side.
So you need depth pitchings out there. Pitching to me,
(14:19):
the relievers, the high end ones, Yes, they're tough to
get a hold of. But the depth of your pen
is relatively easier to attain than a starter or a
significant bat. So the pieces of the puzzle are there.
Do the Yankees go after? There's options. Santander from Baltimore
forty four homers last year, switch hitter. To me, he's
(14:43):
about the same defender. I saw this kid in Norfolk
for two years managing with the Tiger system. But he
can hit, so there's offense there. Again. We talked about Bregman.
What do you do. You can put Bregman at third,
move Jazz to second. To me, my main priority. But
the problem with Santander is that you still have Judge
(15:05):
playing center. To me, I find a way to get
Jazz and center, put Judge back and right and do
whatever I can and get Alonzo. The problem is they
need a left handed bat, and that's where to me,
Santander and Alonso kind of makes sense. But they've got
some options. They've gotta they've got to have a plan,
they've got to move now. Maybe they don't do much,
(15:27):
Maybe there's someone down the road who's a free agent
next year that they're thinking about. So it's gonna be
interesting to see what happens usually time. But to see
Lindor and Soto in the same lineup, that's gonna be fun.
That's gonna be it's like the whole you know, the
Latin flavor of Queens. This is gonna be epic. I
remember when Pedro would pitch. It was a it was
(15:47):
a wonderful night. Jose Ray is playing short Pedro on
the mound. It was pretty epic. It was pretty special.
It was fun to go out there and play those games.
There was a vibe that that the city, he's alive,
the ballpark was was was jumping. It was that you
knew significantly who was pitching and who was playing. So
(16:08):
that's a good thing. That's a good thing for the game.
It's a good thing for for Mets fans. It's gonna
be it's gonna be fun to watch. They're gonna be
it's gonna be loud, it's gonna be electric. So you know,
you got them for I said, don't let the fifteen
years fool you. You've got them for five. So constrat
on the first five. I like to sum this up
for me, there's a lot of questions the Mets. Now
(16:29):
what you keep pushing, keep going. You're not done yet.
You have a five year window. Yankees. This is an
ultimate ego gut punch. This has never happened to you before.
You've never lost anything to the Mets before ever, especially
not player wise, players that are significant. This is a
you can see a changing of the guard here. It's
(16:51):
a matter of where each team goes forward. The Yankees,
they can get deeper, they can get more players for
that amount of money. They traded their pretty much a
lot of young talent to get Soto in the first place,
and this will be the first time in my opinion,
the Yankees will have to face this. Usually, when they
pull off a trade and they unload some of their
(17:13):
prospects to get an established player, they have the ability
to retain that established player. They didn't do it this time.
So now do you rush to judgment and just spend
to spend or do you have this Have you had
this well thought out plan going forward to where if
(17:33):
this backfires any good business, you have a plan A,
a plan B. And what if everything goes wrong, Let's
not panic, Let's hold the fort. So interesting to see
where both teams go with this. Obviously, the Mets have
a lot of momentum with this, but with momentum with
high salaries, comes expectations. I think you saw Lindor deal
(17:54):
with it his first year. And the one beautiful thing
about Sodo, he's already done it. It's seven and a
half miles away. And yes, I played for both of them.
I thought playing for the Yankees was a little bit
easier than it was for the Mets, and that's just
my opinion. I think he will find that out front
(18:15):
his own. But it's all about playing well, and these
guys are great players. Juan Soto is probably the best
left handed hitter since Ted Williams. I mean that's saying something.
This dude's swing is just it's almost slump proof. So
he's gonna hit, he's gonna play hard. He has his
snorl to him everything you want. And that's my biggest
question going forward the Yankees, all your grit has left
(18:37):
the building, all of it. Rizzo, Soto, all your snarl
is gone. You're left with a bunch of in my opinion,
Prima Donna, kind of soft, not very you know you didn't.
You don't have anybody who's gonna do the dirty work
when things are going great, it's fantastic. But who's gonna
(18:59):
be the guy it's gonna stop the bleeding one day.
Who's your grit guy, who's your glue guy? Where are they?
Who's your gonna, you know, bear down and be a bulldog.
I don't see it. I don't see it. So it's
they're both. To me, the Yankees are right across roads.
I'd still believe in not signing Soda was a win
(19:20):
for them. I think they have the possibilities to really
really become a deeper, better team. Yankee fans are used
to getting the high quality player. Let's get high quality
teammates and depth. So use that seven hundred plus million
to shift into becoming a deeper squad, a more multifaceted squad,
(19:45):
A squad that's not gonna drop pop ups in the outfield,
a squad that's not gonna look like they're absolutely drunk
running the bases. Things like that. Get baseball players, and
I think you have some volpe uh jazz. I think
they're they're baseball players. I think get get guys like that.
You don't need the big name. You need the wedge
breaker on the kickoff team. You gotta surround him somewhere
(20:07):
so it's gonna be interesting. Is that what? Winter meetings
just started? And hats off Scott Boris. God bless you, sir.
He's the biggest winner here, one point one three billion
dollars in signing so far and he still has seven
or eight to come. God bless you, my son. That
is outstanding. All the stuff everybody said last year, oh
(20:30):
you know, this is this, and this is that he's
smiling now, it's gonna be one hell of a Christmas
at Scott Boris's house, which it always is. But uh,
I used to be not a fan until I got
a chance to sit down and meet him and talk
to him. You know what, he's doing his job. He's
getting the best for his players. God bless him. You know,
ain't not like him, but you respect him, and I
(20:51):
like him and respect him. So kudos to to Scott
Boris for getting what he has to get for his
for his his A list is a list, guys. Let's
move on to something that really irritated me, which we
all I think we're all on the same page. Golden
at bat rule. Mister Manfred. I know this was probably
(21:13):
just a joke, but it was brought up someone wasted
their breath on this question and this thought. We are
not the Savannah bananas. The fact that we even are
even contemplating something that the Savannah bananas do in actual
Major League baseball is quite alarming. We've already seen bigger bases.
(21:36):
We've already seen the pitch clock, We've already seen the
limited throwovers uncle like golden at bat rule. Are we
trying like this is? You've already altered record books and
I have a problem. I'm all for making the game better,
right we could all say that the robo umpires are
(21:57):
on their way, which I'm not a fan of either.
But NFL has instant replay college football. There's gonna be changes,
and there should be to some of the some of
the rules and some of the things. But when you
alter records and when you dumb down the game for
everyone to be successful, for more people to be successful,
(22:17):
I have an issue with that. The game is hard
for a reason. There's a reason why only one percent
make it, because it's extremely difficult. Stop making it easier.
Bigger bases. We saw more stolen bases. Well, the bigger
base plus not being able to throw over like we
have to, we have that those are things that are
changing records in history of baseball. If Ricky Henderson had
(22:43):
these rules, he would be still two hundred bases in
a season, without question, not even close. So let's stop.
It's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the hard
that makes this sport great. That's why we do this.
But the goal to that rule if if I'm sure
everyone that's listening to this already knows what it is,
but if you don't, basically they're letting. You're allowed to
(23:06):
pinch hit anybody at any given time, at any given
moment of the game. So let's just say you have
show Hey Otani, he's hitting, base, is loaded, nobody out,
Show Hey strikes out, he's walking back to the dugout.
Dave Roberts said, I want to insert show Heyo Tani again.
(23:27):
So now you're gonna have to Now you're gonna have
to pitch to him twice. So this is where it
gets tricky. What if he's on base? What do you do? Then? Okay,
so let's say show he's at second and you want
show Hey to hit again. Who goes runs at second?
Show Hey hits a single guy from second? Scores who
(23:51):
gets the run, score show, Hey Show, Hey A show,
Hey b or the pinch runner. Usually it's the pinch runner.
So there's a lot of missing parts to this. And
then you throw in can you make a pitchon change
in the middle of it? Can you strike him out
right handed and then turn around and bringing the left
eat and face them. So there's a lot of million
ways to go about this. And I get it. The
(24:12):
game sports are entertainment. I understand that. But isn't this
already entertaining enough? Do we have to make it so
like we don't have Like I get the part of
no one wants to see their best player or their
favorite player left on deck. That's the worst feeling in
the world. But that's what makes this game so interesting
(24:33):
and so fun and so intense. Are those moments where
you know who's on deck you're taking away how you
can say you're adding some intrigue to it, but you're
really not. And because what do you do And we're
in a world now where mental health is huge, right,
what do you do to the guy on deck who
(24:55):
thinks he's going to hit and you go hit somebody
else for him? It's true, man, this guy thinks I
just think all right, I wear this guy out and
he still thinks this guy's better than me. So there's
many options to us. I understand trying to make things better.
But let's let's let's let's let the Savannah Bananas do
their own thing. And let's you know, the NBA didn't
(25:17):
didn't adopt anything the Harlem Globetrotters were doing. They weren't.
They don't, they never did, So let's not do this
in baseball, all right, everybody, that's gonna wrap up this
episode of the Dugout Podcast. Keep checking us out for
Winter Meeting updates, while the future moves in free agency
and what's going on in the baseball world and every
(25:38):
other world in sports. Come check us out Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio,
wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, Come check us out.
Until next time, Doug mccaviage, the Dugout Niece,
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