October 17, 2023 • 39 mins
Host Bryan Ford is joined by cookbook author and NYT food journalist, Priya Krishna. Priya’s the author of the best-selling cookbook Indian-ish, a tribute to her mom’s Indian-American cooking. As a journalist, her stories have been included in the 2019 and 2021 editions of "The Best American Food Writing." The dish she shares with Bryan today is Priya’s favorite thing to put over rice, and after you make it, it’ll be yours too.
Watch Bryan make his version and Subscribe: Youtube
Recipe from today's episode can be found at Shondaland.com and in Priya’s cookbook Indian-ish
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Priya Krishna IG: @priyakrishna
Bryan Ford IG: @artisanbryan
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Flakey Biscuit, where each episode we're
cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia, meals and recipes that
have comforted and guided our guests to success. Each episode,
(00:21):
I'm creating from scratch, all right. Who knows what happens.
Maybe I bring them back in time, Maybe they get
the prooss effect. Maybe not. I don't know. If you're
just tuning in and you don't know who I am
for some reason, I'm Brian Ford. I make cookbooks and
do some other fun stuff. I'm a baker, and today
I've got someone in the kitchen who also makes cookbooks
and does other fun stuff. Food reporter for The New
(00:43):
York Times, author of multiple cookbooks, actually multiple cookbooks, including
the best selling Indian Ish, which is a staple in
a lot of people's homes. Her stories have been included
in the twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one editions of
The Best American Food. Right Fighting Originally from Dallas, Texas,
Please welcome Preya Krishna.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I feel like I'm a boxer entering the ring from
Dallas Texas definitely.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Felt like you were in the blue corner there from Dallas,
Texas by way of India. Well, thank you for being here. Honestly,
this is very special. I appreciate you taking time to
chat with me about food and nostalgia. How you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Really cold, Brian?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Really? What do you mean It's not terribly cold out today?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It's freezing outside?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
What maybe because I was so For those of you
that don't know, I just dropped off this meal to
Priya today and I was driving pretty frantically, and I
don't even think I was wearing a jacket. Maybe just
because I was stressed out, I didn't realize how cold
it was when I stepped outside. It's cold, all right.
We are in New York City. You know. I had
to fight a crazy amount of traffic just to get
(01:55):
to you in Brooklyn, but you and Seth looked really cozy.
Seth came down and took some French butter for me
as well.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
He is thrilled about the butter. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So look, at the beginning of each episode, we always
dive into the food that I prepared for you. So
let's have you tasted it yet?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No, it's sitting in the microwave.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, good, Why don't you tell our listeners what exactly
is your most nostalgic meal and what did you have
me prepare for you?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So, my most nostalgic meal is a dish called gardie,
and I feel like it is kind of the unsung
hero of my cookbook Indianish. And I think it's hard
to categorize dish. It's not a soup, it's more than
a soup. It's not a stew. It's just impossible to categorize.
(02:47):
All I can really say about it is that it's
sort of like a cozy, tangy, spice laden blanket for
hot rice, made of chicken flour and yogurt and a
bunch of warms vices like clothes human there's ghee in it.
It is comfort food at its finest. I get really
(03:08):
tired of food, and I truly could never tire of gardy.
I think there was a period in which I made
a batch so large that I did eat garty every
day for two weeks. The sense that I am the
most attuned to is acid and tang and gardy is
just like that, done beautifully, like you use sour yogurt
(03:30):
and it sort of gives it this tang, but it's
balanced out by the spices. It's warm, it just coats
rice so beautifully. There's no greater nostalgic comfort food for
me than gardy.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Wow. I mean that might as well become like a
national advertisement for also, I say, Cutti, cutty. Can you
help me also and help our listeners pronounce this correctly? Sure?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I guess it's like a letter that does not exist
in our alphabet, right, like a light tongue roll. And
I do want to note there are many ways to
make gardy, different regional variations, and the version that I
grew up with is the one that I'm most nostalgic for,
which is a little bit on the thicker side, lots
of warm spices, not as sweet like if you have
(04:19):
a good Drati Gardy it might be a little bit sweeter.
But I think the base elements of sort of yogurt
and chickpa, flower and turmeric seem to be commonalities from
what I know. M.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Gotti I put too much like a role on that.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It's not quite a role. It's more of like a click,
like a tongue click, kind.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Of gott GARDI tell me whenever I get one right,
like make sure to like call out and be like, hey, Brian,
that was a good GUTTI. But you know, the yogurt
mixed with the chickpea flower. I actually ate that when
I was making I just ate that by itself, and
it was actually low key, really really good. I don't
know if you've ever done that while you're making it.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Wow, okay to try that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It's a cutty heck, just like take a spoonful and actually,
I guess I should, you know, now explain the process.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Well, what I was curious about is like if you
figured out that this is in my cookbook and if
you made a version at all similar to the water
in my cokebook.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Because of the specific nature of this dish and my
complete unfamiliarity with it. I did. Indeed, Priya Krishna use
Priya Krishna's guttie recipe. And I think both of us
know this from writing recipes for so long. Even though
something is written down and you follow it to the tea,
(05:37):
there's still a lot of room for air.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And also my instincts take over when I'm cooking, so
you know, teaspoon of this is really just like I'll
pour some in my palm and throw it in there.
So I think I think those will be the differences
between You know, I might squeeze a lime too heavy
handedly compared to your mom.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Not possible. I seizelime very heavy handedly.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Show me your limes squeezing technique.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I not only squeeze the lime, but then I scrape
it to like get all of the membrane. There is
no trace of lime left. I'm done with it.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
There's no trace of lime left. So when you call
for a squeeze lime, you're talking about the membranes and
all of the juicy meat. Part two.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
No.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I basically, when I develop a recipe, I know who
I am. A person who loves salt and loves lime
juice and loves chilis.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I sort of like temper that a little bit, and
then like sort of note, I like a little bit
more lime juice. My recipes assume that they're just squeezing
the lime, and then when I do it, I'm scraping
it aggressively on the.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Side, get that lime membrane. Do you feel like this
recipe that's in your book is as good as it
gets in terms of your personal tastes. I guess, have
you made it for your mom? Like? Does she when
she eats it? Does she like? Whoa, this is it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I have made this for my mom and she approves.
I will say that, like the quality of this recipe,
like many recipes, depends on the quality of your yogurt,
the quality of your turmeric, the quality of your spices.
My mom makes this with my dad's yogurt, which is
really really tangy and has that like exact acidity that
(07:20):
you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Like yogurt from scratch, like your dad keeps yogurt on deck.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, my dad makes yogurt from scratch, And to me,
that homemade yogurt not only gives the flavor you're looking for,
but gives the girty the really velvety texture when made right,
it is velvety. I'll make gurty when I have old
yogurt that I know has soured a bit, because regular
yogurt straight out of the box is not going to
(07:46):
give you the sourness you need, which is why in
the recipe you sort of balance it out with lime
juice to get some of that missing acidity.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
But in an.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Ideal world, you don't need any lime juice and the
sourness of the yogurt is carrying that flavor.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Got you, Got you? And I also noticed you put
not Greek yogurt. Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
You want something that's going to incorporate smoothly and turn
to like that velvety liquid, and Greek yogurt is definitely
on the thicker side.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Right. What's your preferred if you have to do the
storeball thing? Like? Is there a specific one?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
There's like a brand you can buy in Indian starts.
I think it's literally called basy yogurt. It is much
tangier than regular plane yogurt. I would say that's the
yogurt to get.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, so I use stony Field Organic plain whole milk,
probiotic billions per serving, by the way, billions of pio
billions bill all right, So I actually almost forgot the
dried chilis, but luckily I always have those on deck
for making sadas, sauce and stuff like that. Is there
(08:52):
a specific type of chili, because it doesn't. It's just
like a dried red chili.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Any kind of dried red chili will work. I mean,
I don't suggest you use like a choked chilies or
things that are that have like a real like smokiness
to them. Yeah, I find that most varieties that aren't
smoky work just fine at like sort of imparting that
gentle heat to the cartie.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yes, imparting the gentle heat to the guttie. You should
narrate this recipe. I think it's very clear how much
you love cuttie, and I think now it's time to
have some fun because you haven't tasted it yet. I
made this for you, and I want to know if
this proost effect is real? Was I able to do it?
So let's let's get that guy out the microwave on me,
(09:34):
get it out of the microwave, and now it is time.
I also gave you a sad little portion of rice.
Did you put it on the rice? All right? Perfect?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, I microwaved it on rice. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
We want the real deal. What your mom would say,
what you would really say when the doors are closed
and the mics are off.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Texture wise, this looks great. It looks really smooth. It
smells good. These whole chilies look great.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Is it thick enough?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, it is thick enough. This looks really great.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay, Wow, I passed the aesthetic tests.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, the color is right, it looks correct and smells good.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I can't tell if this is like me cooking well
or you just promoting your recipe right now.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Probably this is great, Brian, this is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Oh wow, she's taking bite number two.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
This is definitely like more gee heavy than I usually
make it. Oh maybe the recipe is more gee heavy
than I just like use less gie.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I want all to know that she's straight up chowing
down right when.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I have thirty in front of me, I can't It's
literally there's no chance I'm not going to finish this
entire bowl.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
While Priya finishes the bowl, I'll explain what I did.
I think I know where the heavy gee part came in.
It was right at the end, so you know, the
spices and everything got toasted in a little bit of gee.
The bay leaves, and then the chickpea flour and yogurt
mixture was added with a little more water, and then
I rip the heat up while stirring because we didn't
want it to curdle, and then I let it boil
(11:04):
for ten minutes unbothered. Then all right, you have this
extra step that I actually almost missed until I you know,
I was doing it this morning and I knew traffic
was building up, and I was like, I gotta get
over to Brooklyn. But I saw the extra step. And
it's basically cuman seeds that get blasted by hot gee
in a separate pan, and as soon as they brown,
(11:26):
which happens pretty quickly, you turn the heat off. And
I don't know how I remember all this.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
By the way, I'm like, you're nailing it.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
You're nailing it, Beato, but you add three red chilis,
some chili powder. And there's one more thing that actually atita.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yes, I would have known if you hadn't used it,
but you used it, and it's good.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yo. She's she's literally crushing the whole bowl, and so
asdatita aspatita or heing and what exactly is that for
those that don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It's technical a tree resin, but it sort of has
this really wonderful pungent flavor that I would describe as
like a cross between onion and garlic. It just adds
this like sneaky, delicious depth to Indian cooking.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yes, beautiful. She would have known if I hadn't used
it that I feel like, here's the thing. When I
was plating this up for you, I was like, I
gotta include the whole chili's. I gotta include the bay
leaf so you can see.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I want to ask some tips about eating this because
there's whole cloves and whole peppercorns. So is the idea
that you just eat them, you crunch them, you swallow them.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I think the whole peppercorns are delicious eaten whole. I
love how when you put them in the gardy they
sort of soften a bit, so when you bite into one,
it's almost like biting into like a caper. It's sort
of hard, gone a little soggy, and it makes way
for this like explosion of pepper flavor, which my family
loves pepper. The whole cloves, what I'll do is like
(12:58):
kind of like suck on them, bite, but then I
won't swallow it. But some of my family members will
eat them whole. Okay, we have some family members who
will eat the dried chilies that I cannot take that heat,
so I usually discard my dried chilies. And then obviously
the bay leaves.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Right, you're not eating that ain't nobody eating, No Bailey
Baby better tell me to eat. Ain't nobody better ever
tell me to eat in bay Leaves man like, But.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The whole peppercorn is my favorite thing to eat in Gardy.
I just I love that bite.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, I want everyone to also continue to be aware
of the fact that she has been eating the whole
bowl of food, which makes my heart very warm.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I can't tell you words not describe how much I
love Gardy. It's so it's so good tasting this dish.
It's just like, it's really remarkable how similar it tastes
to my mom's. And one of my goals with indianish
was when I was testing these I wasn't testing them
with my mom spices, with my dad's yogurt. I did
(13:58):
all my grocery shopping at wall because I was like,
I want to try making these recipes with ingredients at
a grocery store that, like much of America goes to.
So I'd buy my okra at Walmart, I'd buy spices
at Walmart. I'd buy yogurt at Walmart. If this tastes
outstanding with these ingredients, that deserves to be in the book, Right,
(14:23):
I try to be a realist. When I write books,
I'm thinking, like, who's actually going to do this? Are
people gonna make this shortcut? If so, I need to
assume that people are going to do this shortcut and
make sure it still tastes good when they inevitably do
make that shortcut. In an ideal world, I'd be like,
buy yogurt, age it for a week, then use it.
(14:44):
But I'm like, who's gonna age yogurt for a week
and then use it? So like more realistically, it's like, yeah,
just use the store about yogurt and addline juice. It
worked great.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The whole point of Indianish is for other people to
experience my pristian moments.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Ooh, I like that.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I feel like I've done something right. So this is
like hats off to you and hats off to me,
hats off to us. All we did it.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
We did it? So yes or no, Priya? Did I
bring you back somewhere positive with the cutty?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yes, Oh That's what I'm talking about. Stay flaky, We'll
be right back. Welcome back to Flaky biscuits.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I have to ask did you eat it? And what
did you think of it?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Of course, and I'm glad that you asked. I actually
have some right here. I've been eating it. I will
agree with you, it's unlike anything. I don't have a
reference point. I've never made it before, there's nothing to
compare it to. It's got a texture that's unlike others.
It's got this balance between the y acidity and spice, unlike
anything I've ever tasted. It's very simple to make, very quick.
(16:11):
And I'm actually curious when you were growing up how
your parents would prepare this and prepare other things. What
was their experience, you know, coming to the US, trying
to preserve these traditions within the family unit, and how
did this recipe and other recipes actually form the backbone
of like your family unit.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I feel like it was less my mom wanting to
preserve family recipes. In fact, we didn't have family recipes
because my mom's mom absolutely hated cooking and could not
be bothered to do it. And so my mom kind
of taught herself to cook based off of dishes that
her grandmother had made for her, a few of the
(16:53):
dishes her mom had made, dishes the friends had made
for her. She sort of like developed all of these
recipes herself health based solely on memory, and I think
gardi is one of those dishes that was so rooted
in her memories as like when the weather gets cold,
when there's not a lot of fresh produce, you make
gardy And it just became like a deep love for
(17:17):
my sister and me. There are dishes in Indianish that
I see people make all over Instagram. I love how
much people make the doll, the sogfeta, but not a
lot of people make the gardy, and I wish that
they would, because like, this recipe is so delicious, it
like makes me want to cry.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Is this something that you would take to school? Like
you growing up? You grew up in Dallas? Correct, Yes,
how was going to school? And perhaps you brought some
gutti with you or something and ate that at lunch?
Like what kind of feedback did you get? You know,
what kind of experience did you have in the South?
Were your classmates into it? Were they curious? What was
(17:58):
that whole experience like for you?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Oh, I was not bringing thirty to lunch. There was
absolutely no way I was bringing thirty to lunch. I
laid down the law with my mom that I needed
a peanut butter and jelly sandwich every day.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It's like the classic cliche like child of immigrants just
wants to fit in and not be told her lunch
is smelly. It's tale as old as time.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So like you laid down the law before, so you
never even tried to go through it. No.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I mean I was really traumatized by this moment in
which Ursulon Khan's mom brought barfie to school on the
Vali to celebrate, and this girl, Rebecca Whiteman I remember,
came up to me and was like, Ursulon's mom brought
this stuff and it sounds like barf and it tastes
(18:48):
like barf, and she was like spitting it out.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
She just was making this face, this disgusted face, and
that moment is like seared into my memory. But like
this is not unique to me. Every kid has got
those moments. So I was just like, well, yeah, fuck no,
I'm not bringing Indian food.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah yeah no. First of all, I'm like really sorry
that you had to experience that, and obviously sorry for
your friend.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, shout out to Ursula Cohn's mom. Just try to
spread the culture.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, special shout out for braving the insanely blatant racism
of Southern schools. I obviously had gone through several iterations
of that as well. It typically wasn't food oriented. It
was also it was always just like, you know, my
skin color. But it kind of creates the love hate
relationship with the South, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yes, But I will say I grew up in Dallas.
I grew up in the suburbs. I grew up in
a very large Indian community. I went to like a
pretty liberal, non denominational school. But like I mean, I
think in many ways that just means like the racism
is more subtle, right, It's less like I hate black people,
(20:03):
and it's more like I really do love black people.
I just don't want them living in my block. That
kind of the Nimby style racism.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know, And to be honest, it's the kind that
I think is prevalent up here in the North. Yeah,
because I love growing up in New Orleans and the
food there, and I loved all the other Hispanic people
there and Honduran's there. But we and then I feel
like every single day we were reminded that we were
like less than yo when there was tacos at lunch.
It was just like, Hey, let's go call Brian Mexican
(20:35):
all day today. It's quite unfortunate that we weren't able
to kind of celebrate our culture the right way with
a lot of people at school or through our lunches
and stuff like that. It really, it really is a
difficult thing to think about. Actually, it actually makes me sad.
It's like, why did we have to go through that?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It makes me sad, But like it made the pride
that I feel for my mom's food just all that
much stronger now, Like it made me so happy to
write Indianish and to own up to the shame that
I felt, and like acknowledge that this is a journey
that I am on. I never won't feel caught between
(21:18):
the sort of indian ness and the American news and right,
the Ursulon Cohn moment was bad, but I was I
was not subjected to like the incredibly blatant racism that
many people growing up in the South were. I grew
up in like a privileged family within like a larger
Indian community, and I had people I could relate to
(21:40):
and talk to about these things, right, I just didn't
have the language to know how I was feeling. And
I think I just have been a people pleaser my
whole life and just desperately wanted to fit in.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Well, I mean fittingan's the name of the game. I
mean when I would experience these situations, I was in
like gifted programs and cool like honors classes and this
kind of thing. And when I was around certain when
I was around white people, certain people, I would speak differently,
act differently.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Totally, you like code switch around.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Being in large white communities, sit totally.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Same, one hundred percent. And I was playing soccer, which
in a lot of communities you had to pay to play. Yeah.
I just remember actually the first select team I got
to be on, I got to play for free because
obviously my parents didn't have four thousand dollars a year
to so I could kick a ball. Yeah, for the
elite level teams, Like I was pretty good at soccer,
(22:36):
and so the coach would be like, hey, like we
want them on the team, like whatever. And those teams
it was you know, teenage white kids, some of them nice,
but most of them, I mean they would call me
the N word as my name. I was their teammate.
And again I wanted to please them, I wanted them
to feel good. I would always fight for their respect,
and thinking back on it, and especially like if you
(22:58):
know my career, it's almost the same thing. Like I
don't want to bake certain things anymore because I want
to stand up for what I believe in and I
want to bake the cuisine that's in the continent I'm from.
I don't want to bake certain things because I think
I should be making them. It's more like I need
to be me, and I need to be comfortable with
being me. And I feel like, from what I'm hearing,
(23:19):
Indian Ish was your way of like flourishing in that regard.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, it sort of like started a journey that I'm
still on, not only letting go of shame, but like
the positive action of being really proud of my experience
and of my family and also recognizing that those feelings
that experience is not at all unique and is representative
(23:45):
of what many kids of our generation went through growing up.
We just didn't talk about it.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
We did not talk about it. And it happens in
other countries as well. It's immigration, you know, African immigration
into France. There's so many different countries that have this
kind of we're gonna look at you and basically make
our assessment of where you belong in society by how
you look. Yeah, you know what, Actually, speaking of family,
you have a new family member, right, your husband seth Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yes, yes, new family member.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Because I've been curious, you know, like we you know,
my fiance is white, set is white? Is that something
that has ever been an issue for you guys? And
not within your family or anything like that, but just
even like out in the streets. I know, when we
road trip to the South, when you need gas at
that like random Virginia gas station, it's like you never
know what's going to happen out there. You know, we're
(24:37):
always a little bit cautious. Do you guys ever have
to go through that?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah? I mean I feel like every interracial couple, these
dynamics are always at play, right. Yeah, my husband is
like a tall white man who like embodies Western standards
of beauty, and it can be really jarring sometimes.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
By Western standards of beauty, do you mean perfect traps,
great biceps, and a superman jaw line. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I saw him. I was like, oh, he looks kind
of Clark Kentish.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
The first time I saw Set, I was like, who
is this Bruce Wayne, this whole like exceptional man in
front of me. It makes me question all of my
diet and exercise efforts. No, but you know what the
thing about Set this he's literally the nice, one of
the nicest guys ever met. And it's that real kindness
that he has.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
He totally is. But and I'm sure you experience this.
It's like a lot of educating your partner. I'm like, Yeah,
you go through life as a white person and that
experience is fundamentally different from like the way that I
go through life, and you need to acknowledge that and
vice versa. Yeah, if you're in an interracial relationship and
you haven't had that conversation, you need to have it
(25:47):
right now.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, you need to buckle up. I think it's an
important conversation to have directly. You know, there's indirect moments
where the only way for your white partner to learn
is for them to experience and like see or hear
with their own eyes and ears or like hey, like
you know that was a microaggression, like what that person
just did and when you when you break it down, Yeah,
(26:10):
this has happened with Bridge and I several times, but
you know she probably like Seth. I think to be
able to survive in an interracial relationship, you got to
be with a person that can understand and quickly adapt
to recognizing how important it is to like go through
this stuff because you can't be oblivious to it. My
feelings could get hurt by something maybe she won't understand,
(26:32):
and I'll have to just like kind of explain, like, hey,
like this is why this hurt my feelings, because yeah,
bubba ble, you know, like that was bullshit. I did it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
There's a lot of that being like that was a
microaggression and you probably it probably was not even a
blip on your radar, but like I knew it, and
I saw it, and I'm going to explain it to you,
and you need to know that the reason you didn't
register it is probably because you're white.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, exactly. We should make like a guide for interracial relationship.
It's just one page. It's just a few lines. It's
exactly what you said. It's you don't understand this because
you're white. You need to listen to what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, just believe me what I tell you that was
a microaggression.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Do you remember any specific microaggressions that you've had to
point out.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
When someone asked me if I worship cows.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Is that a microaggression?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I mean, well, it's sort of like the assumption that
I value cows. I think we were at a restaurant
once and I like, ordered a steak and some moments like,
well that has beef. That kind of stuff happens a lot.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Wow, it's quite unfortunate that we have to live in
a world where that is an issue. But I think
for me as a Southerner as well, for you, you know,
moving to New York. I love New Orleans, but I
was always itching to get to a place where I
wouldn't literally be spit on at soccer practice or whatever
it is that I'm doing. So I think the community
here has been very welcoming and very open for people
(27:58):
like us.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yes, I do. I still witness microaggressions or instances of
implicit bias, yes, but I love living in the city.
I love walking around neighborhoods and it not just being
white people. I love that you can have every type
of food you want here. Obviously many of those things
are true in parts of the South as well, But
(28:20):
New York is pretty incredible for all those things.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
New York is incredible. You work for The New York Times,
which is also an incredible I actually think that's how
I Besides your book, I think I had definitely seen,
you know, or read articles that you've written more recently.
You were were you in the Bronx.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
I was in the Bronx at a hot dog factory.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
What were you doing at the hot dog factory?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I was doing a video about how hot dogs are made.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Hot dogs that are packaged and sold in stores, or
hot dogs that are like made at like school.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Like both. It was the Sabrett hot Dog Factory, and
they manufacture hot dogs that are sold at baseball games,
sold by street venders, sold at grocery stores. They're like
the New York City hot dog and they're factories in
the Bronx.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Wow, it's just such a New York thing to say, like,
I went to the Bronx learn how to make some
hot dogs that permeate the entire city. Speaking of the
New York Times, what's going on? Are you comfortable talking
about what's going on yesterday and today?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah? I don't know when this is coming out, so
I don't know what state we will be in, but
I am a part of the New York Times Guild.
I'm thankful to be part of a unionized workplace. And
we have been negotiating with management for a fair contract
for two years and basically have yet to get what
we see as a fair contract. So we had a
twenty four hour walkout yesterday in which we did not work.
(29:49):
We encourage people to not use New York Times services
for twenty four hours in the hopes that management would
recognize our worth and come to the table with a
fair contract. Hell yeah, fingers crossed that it leads to
the change we're hoping for, because there are people who
do really vital work for the New York Times who
(30:09):
are not paid even close to what they ought to
be paid and have not gotten a raise in two years.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
M mm hmm. That ain't right. Hungry for more Flaky biscuit,
stay tuned. Enough of that, Enough of that, Back to
(30:36):
the interview. What better way to talk about walking out
of work than playing a game. We are going to
play our flaky game now. Okay, you're a yogurt fiend, yes,
and yogurt was a big part of cutty cutty. I
(31:00):
was just I don't know. I was kind of hoping
that you would be like, oh, that was the one
you said it, but you know, you did.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Say it earlier and I totally forgot. But you're pretty
close to nailing the pronunciation.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Cutty cutty cutty. So I've got a few questions for
you to test. It's kind of like who wants to
be a millionaire style, you know, multiple choice questions. Yeah,
I mean like you talk a big yogurt game, so
you better bring your a game here, all right? Are
you ready?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Oh this is so ridiculous because I kind of made
up all right, you'll see, all right. Question number one,
what is the bacteria that is used to make yogurt?
What is the primary bacteria in yogurt? Is it yogo
bacto yogurte ciliate, Lacto Bacsilius bulgaricus, or yogurt modules.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I think it's the third one.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
You are correct, it is Lacto Bacsilius bulgaricus. Here at
flaky biscuit Brian Ford Camp pronounce anything. Just letting you
guys know that one out of one so far, good job. Next,
the earliest yogurts were probably spontaneously fermented by wild bacteria
in what type of container horse hoofs, sheep's wool bags,
(32:19):
sod or goat skin bags?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
What's sod?
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Sod is bricks made out of dirt.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
I'm gonna guess one of the one of the skins. Okay,
what were the two animal possibilities?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Sheep's wool bags or goat skin bags.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Sheep's wool bags or goat skin But like I mean,
horses hooves would be very creative. Yeah, I was gonna
guess sort of clay containers. Maybe the goat. Let's try
the goat.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
You are two for two, Priya. Christa's yogurt instincts are
kicking in. There's no stopping you two for two in
our game here. But there is one more question. Okay,
all right, this one's kind of tough. There are some
accounts that suggest that the Indian emperor Akbar his cooks
would flavor his yogurt with what would it be human
(33:14):
seeds in vanilla? Would it be chili flakes and salt,
mustard seeds and cinnamon, or corn starch and chickpea flour.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I'm gonna guess mustard seeds and cinnamon.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Wow. Three for three, flaky biscuit legend, Flaky Hall of
Famer Priya Krishna with the straight three for three, hitting
home runs left and right. You are clearly the yogurt
expert that you claimed you are. I'm I'm very I'm
actually impressed.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Thank you. I just I love yogurt. What can I say?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yogurt podcasts coming soon?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Ugh, I wish.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So we've had our delicious gutty. You know, we kind
of talked about how Indianish has helped form your career,
which is amazing. Talk to me about what's coming down
the pipeline for you.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I have a book called Pria's Kitchen Adventures, and it's
a book for kids age eight to eleven, and it
features recipes from around the world developed by friends, including
our mutual friend, Chris Ying, And it includes that pickled
green bean with pork recipe, that recipe club viewers just
(34:33):
can't get enough of.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
They cannot get enough of it.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And it's basically about how my mom worked in the
airline industry and we were privileged enough to get to
travel the world. But you know, soon I realized you
don't actually have to leave your kitchen to travel and
you can do it through cooking, so it sort of
leads kids around the world with recipes.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Wow, that is amazing. When's it come out?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I believe next summer.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Pria's Kitchen Adventures that is something that we're all going
to be looking forward to for sure. Thank you for
sharing that you know here at Flaky Biscuit. Also, we
like to talk about what you're doing for your community
now that you found this success, now that you've figured
out who you are as an author, as a cook.
I understand that you work with the South Brooklyn Mutual
Aid and I would love to talk a little bit
(35:17):
about that and what that work means to you. You know,
how how you became involved and what is it exactly
that that does for our community here.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
They do anything in everything, giving warm clothes to people
in need, diapers, helping connect people with COVID vaccine appointments.
When it comes to community service, I feel like it
can be really overwhelming. And someone gave me really amazing advice,
which is like start in your own community. Start where
you live. That is like a great place to just
like immediately make an impact, Like you live in this place.
(35:49):
This place does so much for you give back to
your local community. When COVID vaccine appointments first opened up,
I was a Spanish translator and that was really wonderful
and I just like met so many people while working
at one of the Sunset Park vaccine centers. They accept donations,
but like I think South Brooklyn Mutual Aid is doing
(36:09):
really great work. They're really organized. They are really good
at figuring out how can we make the most impact
and like utilize our volunteers to make the most impact.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I could help you translate Spanish. That'd be fun.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
It's really fun. It's so fun convincing people to like
get vaccinated and like to be able to do it
in like the language they know. And they get really
like excited, and they have first approach really nervous to
like will anyone understand me? And then you immediately put
them at ease. It's it's really great.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Wow, well you learned Spanish because you grew up in Texas.
I'm assuming yeah, but the fact that you're using that
skill set now to improve the community is really wonderful. Priya,
thank you, thank you for doing that. Pria, thank you
(36:59):
so much for joining me today. You know, I was
really nervous about making the cuttie, but the bowl is empty.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Wow clean plate club.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Fam. Make sure that you check out Indianish for that
recipe because it's clearly quite delicious, and look out for
Priya's kitchen adventures as well lots of fun things. I
want to thank you one more time for joining us.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Thank you, Brian, this was so fun.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Thank y'all for listening. Fam. If you want to make
guttie for yourself, find it on Shondaland dot com and
in Priya's cookbook. The recipe is phenomenal. The cookbook is
called indian Ish and Fam, I want to know how
it goes. Tag me artists and Brian, tag Priya Krishna
at Priya Krishna and of course tag Shondalan post photos
(37:45):
videos let us know how y'all did you know what
I'm saying? We're curious to see if it's your first
time making cuttie like it was for me, I want
to hear about your experience. My advice would be to
don't improvise too much, try to follow it to the
tea because you're gonna really get a delicious result. Don't
forget to check out South Brooklyn Mutual Aid at Southbkmutuala
dot com. You can find all the handles and links
(38:07):
I just mentioned in the show notes for this episode.
If you like Flaky Biscuit all right, if you like
flaky layers and delicious morsels of nostalgia, then you know
what to do.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Leave us a beautiful rating, review, Share, subscribe, tell the
whole world, scream it from the rooftops. If you're driving
to work and you want to hear something delicious.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Put on Flaky Biscuit. Thank you so much for joining guys.
Flaky Biscuit is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja,
Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer
is Bridget Kenna and our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder,
with music by Crucial. Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be
found each week on Shondaland dot com. Subscribe to the
(38:52):
Shondaland YouTube channel for more Flaky Biscuit content. Flaky Biscuit
is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app
Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Flakey Biscuit, where each episode we're
cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia, meals and recipes that
have comforted and guided our guests to success. Each episode,
(00:21):
I'm creating from scratch, all right. Who knows what happens.
Maybe I bring them back in time, Maybe they get
the prooss effect. Maybe not. I don't know. If you're
just tuning in and you don't know who I am
for some reason, I'm Brian Ford. I make cookbooks and
do some other fun stuff. I'm a baker, and today
I've got someone in the kitchen who also makes cookbooks
and does other fun stuff. Food reporter for The New
(00:43):
York Times, author of multiple cookbooks, actually multiple cookbooks, including
the best selling Indian Ish, which is a staple in
a lot of people's homes. Her stories have been included
in the twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one editions of
The Best American Food. Right Fighting Originally from Dallas, Texas,
Please welcome Preya Krishna.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I feel like I'm a boxer entering the ring from
Dallas Texas definitely.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Felt like you were in the blue corner there from Dallas,
Texas by way of India. Well, thank you for being here. Honestly,
this is very special. I appreciate you taking time to
chat with me about food and nostalgia. How you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Really cold, Brian?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Really? What do you mean It's not terribly cold out today?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It's freezing outside?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
What maybe because I was so For those of you
that don't know, I just dropped off this meal to
Priya today and I was driving pretty frantically, and I
don't even think I was wearing a jacket. Maybe just
because I was stressed out, I didn't realize how cold
it was when I stepped outside. It's cold, all right.
We are in New York City. You know. I had
to fight a crazy amount of traffic just to get
(01:55):
to you in Brooklyn, but you and Seth looked really cozy.
Seth came down and took some French butter for me
as well.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
He is thrilled about the butter. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So look, at the beginning of each episode, we always
dive into the food that I prepared for you. So
let's have you tasted it yet?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No, it's sitting in the microwave.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, good, Why don't you tell our listeners what exactly
is your most nostalgic meal and what did you have
me prepare for you?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So, my most nostalgic meal is a dish called gardie,
and I feel like it is kind of the unsung
hero of my cookbook Indianish. And I think it's hard
to categorize dish. It's not a soup, it's more than
a soup. It's not a stew. It's just impossible to categorize.
(02:47):
All I can really say about it is that it's
sort of like a cozy, tangy, spice laden blanket for
hot rice, made of chicken flour and yogurt and a
bunch of warms vices like clothes human there's ghee in it.
It is comfort food at its finest. I get really
(03:08):
tired of food, and I truly could never tire of gardy.
I think there was a period in which I made
a batch so large that I did eat garty every
day for two weeks. The sense that I am the
most attuned to is acid and tang and gardy is
just like that, done beautifully, like you use sour yogurt
(03:30):
and it sort of gives it this tang, but it's
balanced out by the spices. It's warm, it just coats
rice so beautifully. There's no greater nostalgic comfort food for
me than gardy.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Wow. I mean that might as well become like a
national advertisement for also, I say, Cutti, cutty. Can you
help me also and help our listeners pronounce this correctly? Sure?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I guess it's like a letter that does not exist
in our alphabet, right, like a light tongue roll. And
I do want to note there are many ways to
make gardy, different regional variations, and the version that I
grew up with is the one that I'm most nostalgic for,
which is a little bit on the thicker side, lots
of warm spices, not as sweet like if you have
(04:19):
a good Drati Gardy it might be a little bit sweeter.
But I think the base elements of sort of yogurt
and chickpa, flower and turmeric seem to be commonalities from
what I know. M.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Gotti I put too much like a role on that.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It's not quite a role. It's more of like a click,
like a tongue click, kind.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Of gott GARDI tell me whenever I get one right,
like make sure to like call out and be like, hey, Brian,
that was a good GUTTI. But you know, the yogurt
mixed with the chickpea flower. I actually ate that when
I was making I just ate that by itself, and
it was actually low key, really really good. I don't
know if you've ever done that while you're making it.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Wow, okay to try that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It's a cutty heck, just like take a spoonful and actually,
I guess I should, you know, now explain the process.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Well, what I was curious about is like if you
figured out that this is in my cookbook and if
you made a version at all similar to the water
in my cokebook.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Because of the specific nature of this dish and my
complete unfamiliarity with it. I did. Indeed, Priya Krishna use
Priya Krishna's guttie recipe. And I think both of us
know this from writing recipes for so long. Even though
something is written down and you follow it to the tea,
(05:37):
there's still a lot of room for air.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And also my instincts take over when I'm cooking, so
you know, teaspoon of this is really just like I'll
pour some in my palm and throw it in there.
So I think I think those will be the differences
between You know, I might squeeze a lime too heavy
handedly compared to your mom.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Not possible. I seizelime very heavy handedly.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Show me your limes squeezing technique.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I not only squeeze the lime, but then I scrape
it to like get all of the membrane. There is
no trace of lime left. I'm done with it.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
There's no trace of lime left. So when you call
for a squeeze lime, you're talking about the membranes and
all of the juicy meat. Part two.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
No.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I basically, when I develop a recipe, I know who
I am. A person who loves salt and loves lime
juice and loves chilis.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I sort of like temper that a little bit, and
then like sort of note, I like a little bit
more lime juice. My recipes assume that they're just squeezing
the lime, and then when I do it, I'm scraping
it aggressively on the.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Side, get that lime membrane. Do you feel like this
recipe that's in your book is as good as it
gets in terms of your personal tastes. I guess, have
you made it for your mom? Like? Does she when
she eats it? Does she like? Whoa, this is it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I have made this for my mom and she approves.
I will say that, like the quality of this recipe,
like many recipes, depends on the quality of your yogurt,
the quality of your turmeric, the quality of your spices.
My mom makes this with my dad's yogurt, which is
really really tangy and has that like exact acidity that
(07:20):
you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Like yogurt from scratch, like your dad keeps yogurt on deck.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, my dad makes yogurt from scratch, And to me,
that homemade yogurt not only gives the flavor you're looking for,
but gives the girty the really velvety texture when made right,
it is velvety. I'll make gurty when I have old
yogurt that I know has soured a bit, because regular
yogurt straight out of the box is not going to
(07:46):
give you the sourness you need, which is why in
the recipe you sort of balance it out with lime
juice to get some of that missing acidity.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
But in an.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Ideal world, you don't need any lime juice and the
sourness of the yogurt is carrying that flavor.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Got you, Got you? And I also noticed you put
not Greek yogurt. Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
You want something that's going to incorporate smoothly and turn
to like that velvety liquid, and Greek yogurt is definitely
on the thicker side.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Right. What's your preferred if you have to do the
storeball thing? Like? Is there a specific one?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
There's like a brand you can buy in Indian starts.
I think it's literally called basy yogurt. It is much
tangier than regular plane yogurt. I would say that's the
yogurt to get.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, so I use stony Field Organic plain whole milk,
probiotic billions per serving, by the way, billions of pio
billions bill all right, So I actually almost forgot the
dried chilis, but luckily I always have those on deck
for making sadas, sauce and stuff like that. Is there
(08:52):
a specific type of chili, because it doesn't. It's just
like a dried red chili.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Any kind of dried red chili will work. I mean,
I don't suggest you use like a choked chilies or
things that are that have like a real like smokiness
to them. Yeah, I find that most varieties that aren't
smoky work just fine at like sort of imparting that
gentle heat to the cartie.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yes, imparting the gentle heat to the guttie. You should
narrate this recipe. I think it's very clear how much
you love cuttie, and I think now it's time to
have some fun because you haven't tasted it yet. I
made this for you, and I want to know if
this proost effect is real? Was I able to do it?
So let's let's get that guy out the microwave on me,
(09:34):
get it out of the microwave, and now it is time.
I also gave you a sad little portion of rice.
Did you put it on the rice? All right? Perfect?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, I microwaved it on rice. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
We want the real deal. What your mom would say,
what you would really say when the doors are closed
and the mics are off.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Texture wise, this looks great. It looks really smooth. It
smells good. These whole chilies look great.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Is it thick enough?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, it is thick enough. This looks really great.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay, Wow, I passed the aesthetic tests.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, the color is right, it looks correct and smells good.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I can't tell if this is like me cooking well
or you just promoting your recipe right now.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Probably this is great, Brian, this is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Oh wow, she's taking bite number two.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
This is definitely like more gee heavy than I usually
make it. Oh maybe the recipe is more gee heavy
than I just like use less gie.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I want all to know that she's straight up chowing
down right when.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I have thirty in front of me, I can't It's
literally there's no chance I'm not going to finish this
entire bowl.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
While Priya finishes the bowl, I'll explain what I did.
I think I know where the heavy gee part came in.
It was right at the end, so you know, the
spices and everything got toasted in a little bit of gee.
The bay leaves, and then the chickpea flour and yogurt
mixture was added with a little more water, and then
I rip the heat up while stirring because we didn't
want it to curdle, and then I let it boil
(11:04):
for ten minutes unbothered. Then all right, you have this
extra step that I actually almost missed until I you know,
I was doing it this morning and I knew traffic
was building up, and I was like, I gotta get
over to Brooklyn. But I saw the extra step. And
it's basically cuman seeds that get blasted by hot gee
in a separate pan, and as soon as they brown,
(11:26):
which happens pretty quickly, you turn the heat off. And
I don't know how I remember all this.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
By the way, I'm like, you're nailing it.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
You're nailing it, Beato, but you add three red chilis,
some chili powder. And there's one more thing that actually atita.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yes, I would have known if you hadn't used it,
but you used it, and it's good.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yo. She's she's literally crushing the whole bowl, and so
asdatita aspatita or heing and what exactly is that for
those that don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It's technical a tree resin, but it sort of has
this really wonderful pungent flavor that I would describe as
like a cross between onion and garlic. It just adds
this like sneaky, delicious depth to Indian cooking.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yes, beautiful. She would have known if I hadn't used
it that I feel like, here's the thing. When I
was plating this up for you, I was like, I
gotta include the whole chili's. I gotta include the bay
leaf so you can see.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I want to ask some tips about eating this because
there's whole cloves and whole peppercorns. So is the idea
that you just eat them, you crunch them, you swallow them.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I think the whole peppercorns are delicious eaten whole. I
love how when you put them in the gardy they
sort of soften a bit, so when you bite into one,
it's almost like biting into like a caper. It's sort
of hard, gone a little soggy, and it makes way
for this like explosion of pepper flavor, which my family
loves pepper. The whole cloves, what I'll do is like
(12:58):
kind of like suck on them, bite, but then I
won't swallow it. But some of my family members will
eat them whole. Okay, we have some family members who
will eat the dried chilies that I cannot take that heat,
so I usually discard my dried chilies. And then obviously
the bay leaves.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Right, you're not eating that ain't nobody eating, No Bailey
Baby better tell me to eat. Ain't nobody better ever
tell me to eat in bay Leaves man like, But.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The whole peppercorn is my favorite thing to eat in Gardy.
I just I love that bite.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, I want everyone to also continue to be aware
of the fact that she has been eating the whole
bowl of food, which makes my heart very warm.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I can't tell you words not describe how much I
love Gardy. It's so it's so good tasting this dish.
It's just like, it's really remarkable how similar it tastes
to my mom's. And one of my goals with indianish
was when I was testing these I wasn't testing them
with my mom spices, with my dad's yogurt. I did
(13:58):
all my grocery shopping at wall because I was like,
I want to try making these recipes with ingredients at
a grocery store that, like much of America goes to.
So I'd buy my okra at Walmart, I'd buy spices
at Walmart. I'd buy yogurt at Walmart. If this tastes
outstanding with these ingredients, that deserves to be in the book, Right,
(14:23):
I try to be a realist. When I write books,
I'm thinking, like, who's actually going to do this? Are
people gonna make this shortcut? If so, I need to
assume that people are going to do this shortcut and
make sure it still tastes good when they inevitably do
make that shortcut. In an ideal world, I'd be like,
buy yogurt, age it for a week, then use it.
(14:44):
But I'm like, who's gonna age yogurt for a week
and then use it? So like more realistically, it's like, yeah,
just use the store about yogurt and addline juice. It
worked great.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The whole point of Indianish is for other people to
experience my pristian moments.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Ooh, I like that.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I feel like I've done something right. So this is
like hats off to you and hats off to me,
hats off to us. All we did it.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
We did it? So yes or no, Priya? Did I
bring you back somewhere positive with the cutty?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yes, Oh That's what I'm talking about. Stay flaky, We'll
be right back. Welcome back to Flaky biscuits.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I have to ask did you eat it? And what
did you think of it?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Of course, and I'm glad that you asked. I actually
have some right here. I've been eating it. I will
agree with you, it's unlike anything. I don't have a
reference point. I've never made it before, there's nothing to
compare it to. It's got a texture that's unlike others.
It's got this balance between the y acidity and spice, unlike
anything I've ever tasted. It's very simple to make, very quick.
(16:11):
And I'm actually curious when you were growing up how
your parents would prepare this and prepare other things. What
was their experience, you know, coming to the US, trying
to preserve these traditions within the family unit, and how
did this recipe and other recipes actually form the backbone
of like your family unit.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I feel like it was less my mom wanting to
preserve family recipes. In fact, we didn't have family recipes
because my mom's mom absolutely hated cooking and could not
be bothered to do it. And so my mom kind
of taught herself to cook based off of dishes that
her grandmother had made for her, a few of the
(16:53):
dishes her mom had made, dishes the friends had made
for her. She sort of like developed all of these
recipes herself health based solely on memory, and I think
gardi is one of those dishes that was so rooted
in her memories as like when the weather gets cold,
when there's not a lot of fresh produce, you make
gardy And it just became like a deep love for
(17:17):
my sister and me. There are dishes in Indianish that
I see people make all over Instagram. I love how
much people make the doll, the sogfeta, but not a
lot of people make the gardy, and I wish that
they would, because like, this recipe is so delicious, it
like makes me want to cry.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Is this something that you would take to school? Like
you growing up? You grew up in Dallas? Correct, Yes,
how was going to school? And perhaps you brought some
gutti with you or something and ate that at lunch?
Like what kind of feedback did you get? You know,
what kind of experience did you have in the South?
Were your classmates into it? Were they curious? What was
(17:58):
that whole experience like for you?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Oh, I was not bringing thirty to lunch. There was
absolutely no way I was bringing thirty to lunch. I
laid down the law with my mom that I needed
a peanut butter and jelly sandwich every day.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It's like the classic cliche like child of immigrants just
wants to fit in and not be told her lunch
is smelly. It's tale as old as time.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So like you laid down the law before, so you
never even tried to go through it. No.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I mean I was really traumatized by this moment in
which Ursulon Khan's mom brought barfie to school on the
Vali to celebrate, and this girl, Rebecca Whiteman I remember,
came up to me and was like, Ursulon's mom brought
this stuff and it sounds like barf and it tastes
(18:48):
like barf, and she was like spitting it out.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
She just was making this face, this disgusted face, and
that moment is like seared into my memory. But like
this is not unique to me. Every kid has got
those moments. So I was just like, well, yeah, fuck no,
I'm not bringing Indian food.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah yeah no. First of all, I'm like really sorry
that you had to experience that, and obviously sorry for
your friend.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, shout out to Ursula Cohn's mom. Just try to
spread the culture.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, special shout out for braving the insanely blatant racism
of Southern schools. I obviously had gone through several iterations
of that as well. It typically wasn't food oriented. It
was also it was always just like, you know, my
skin color. But it kind of creates the love hate
relationship with the South, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yes, But I will say I grew up in Dallas.
I grew up in the suburbs. I grew up in
a very large Indian community. I went to like a
pretty liberal, non denominational school. But like I mean, I
think in many ways that just means like the racism
is more subtle, right, It's less like I hate black people,
(20:03):
and it's more like I really do love black people.
I just don't want them living in my block. That
kind of the Nimby style racism.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know, And to be honest, it's the kind that
I think is prevalent up here in the North. Yeah,
because I love growing up in New Orleans and the
food there, and I loved all the other Hispanic people
there and Honduran's there. But we and then I feel
like every single day we were reminded that we were
like less than yo when there was tacos at lunch.
It was just like, Hey, let's go call Brian Mexican
(20:35):
all day today. It's quite unfortunate that we weren't able
to kind of celebrate our culture the right way with
a lot of people at school or through our lunches
and stuff like that. It really, it really is a
difficult thing to think about. Actually, it actually makes me sad.
It's like, why did we have to go through that?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It makes me sad, But like it made the pride
that I feel for my mom's food just all that
much stronger now, Like it made me so happy to
write Indianish and to own up to the shame that
I felt, and like acknowledge that this is a journey
that I am on. I never won't feel caught between
(21:18):
the sort of indian ness and the American news and right,
the Ursulon Cohn moment was bad, but I was I
was not subjected to like the incredibly blatant racism that
many people growing up in the South were. I grew
up in like a privileged family within like a larger
Indian community, and I had people I could relate to
(21:40):
and talk to about these things, right, I just didn't
have the language to know how I was feeling. And
I think I just have been a people pleaser my
whole life and just desperately wanted to fit in.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Well, I mean fittingan's the name of the game. I
mean when I would experience these situations, I was in
like gifted programs and cool like honors classes and this
kind of thing. And when I was around certain when
I was around white people, certain people, I would speak differently,
act differently.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Totally, you like code switch around.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Being in large white communities, sit totally.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Same, one hundred percent. And I was playing soccer, which
in a lot of communities you had to pay to play. Yeah.
I just remember actually the first select team I got
to be on, I got to play for free because
obviously my parents didn't have four thousand dollars a year
to so I could kick a ball. Yeah, for the
elite level teams, Like I was pretty good at soccer,
(22:36):
and so the coach would be like, hey, like we
want them on the team, like whatever. And those teams
it was you know, teenage white kids, some of them nice,
but most of them, I mean they would call me
the N word as my name. I was their teammate.
And again I wanted to please them, I wanted them
to feel good. I would always fight for their respect,
and thinking back on it, and especially like if you
(22:58):
know my career, it's almost the same thing. Like I
don't want to bake certain things anymore because I want
to stand up for what I believe in and I
want to bake the cuisine that's in the continent I'm from.
I don't want to bake certain things because I think
I should be making them. It's more like I need
to be me, and I need to be comfortable with
being me. And I feel like, from what I'm hearing,
(23:19):
Indian Ish was your way of like flourishing in that regard.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, it sort of like started a journey that I'm
still on, not only letting go of shame, but like
the positive action of being really proud of my experience
and of my family and also recognizing that those feelings
that experience is not at all unique and is representative
(23:45):
of what many kids of our generation went through growing up.
We just didn't talk about it.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
We did not talk about it. And it happens in
other countries as well. It's immigration, you know, African immigration
into France. There's so many different countries that have this
kind of we're gonna look at you and basically make
our assessment of where you belong in society by how
you look. Yeah, you know what, Actually, speaking of family,
you have a new family member, right, your husband seth Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yes, yes, new family member.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Because I've been curious, you know, like we you know,
my fiance is white, set is white? Is that something
that has ever been an issue for you guys? And
not within your family or anything like that, but just
even like out in the streets. I know, when we
road trip to the South, when you need gas at
that like random Virginia gas station, it's like you never
know what's going to happen out there. You know, we're
(24:37):
always a little bit cautious. Do you guys ever have
to go through that?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah? I mean I feel like every interracial couple, these
dynamics are always at play, right. Yeah, my husband is
like a tall white man who like embodies Western standards
of beauty, and it can be really jarring sometimes.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
By Western standards of beauty, do you mean perfect traps,
great biceps, and a superman jaw line. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I saw him. I was like, oh, he looks kind
of Clark Kentish.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
The first time I saw Set, I was like, who
is this Bruce Wayne, this whole like exceptional man in
front of me. It makes me question all of my
diet and exercise efforts. No, but you know what the
thing about Set this he's literally the nice, one of
the nicest guys ever met. And it's that real kindness
that he has.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
He totally is. But and I'm sure you experience this.
It's like a lot of educating your partner. I'm like, Yeah,
you go through life as a white person and that
experience is fundamentally different from like the way that I
go through life, and you need to acknowledge that and
vice versa. Yeah, if you're in an interracial relationship and
you haven't had that conversation, you need to have it
(25:47):
right now.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, you need to buckle up. I think it's an
important conversation to have directly. You know, there's indirect moments
where the only way for your white partner to learn
is for them to experience and like see or hear
with their own eyes and ears or like hey, like
you know that was a microaggression, like what that person
just did and when you when you break it down, Yeah,
(26:10):
this has happened with Bridge and I several times, but
you know she probably like Seth. I think to be
able to survive in an interracial relationship, you got to
be with a person that can understand and quickly adapt
to recognizing how important it is to like go through
this stuff because you can't be oblivious to it. My
feelings could get hurt by something maybe she won't understand,
(26:32):
and I'll have to just like kind of explain, like, hey,
like this is why this hurt my feelings, because yeah,
bubba ble, you know, like that was bullshit. I did it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
There's a lot of that being like that was a
microaggression and you probably it probably was not even a
blip on your radar, but like I knew it, and
I saw it, and I'm going to explain it to you,
and you need to know that the reason you didn't
register it is probably because you're white.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, exactly. We should make like a guide for interracial relationship.
It's just one page. It's just a few lines. It's
exactly what you said. It's you don't understand this because
you're white. You need to listen to what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, just believe me what I tell you that was
a microaggression.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Do you remember any specific microaggressions that you've had to
point out.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
When someone asked me if I worship cows.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Is that a microaggression?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I mean, well, it's sort of like the assumption that
I value cows. I think we were at a restaurant
once and I like, ordered a steak and some moments like,
well that has beef. That kind of stuff happens a lot.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Wow, it's quite unfortunate that we have to live in
a world where that is an issue. But I think
for me as a Southerner as well, for you, you know,
moving to New York. I love New Orleans, but I
was always itching to get to a place where I
wouldn't literally be spit on at soccer practice or whatever
it is that I'm doing. So I think the community
here has been very welcoming and very open for people
(27:58):
like us.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yes, I do. I still witness microaggressions or instances of
implicit bias, yes, but I love living in the city.
I love walking around neighborhoods and it not just being
white people. I love that you can have every type
of food you want here. Obviously many of those things
are true in parts of the South as well, But
(28:20):
New York is pretty incredible for all those things.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
New York is incredible. You work for The New York Times,
which is also an incredible I actually think that's how
I Besides your book, I think I had definitely seen,
you know, or read articles that you've written more recently.
You were were you in the Bronx.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
I was in the Bronx at a hot dog factory.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
What were you doing at the hot dog factory?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I was doing a video about how hot dogs are made.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Hot dogs that are packaged and sold in stores, or
hot dogs that are like made at like school.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Like both. It was the Sabrett hot Dog Factory, and
they manufacture hot dogs that are sold at baseball games,
sold by street venders, sold at grocery stores. They're like
the New York City hot dog and they're factories in
the Bronx.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Wow, it's just such a New York thing to say, like,
I went to the Bronx learn how to make some
hot dogs that permeate the entire city. Speaking of the
New York Times, what's going on? Are you comfortable talking
about what's going on yesterday and today?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah? I don't know when this is coming out, so
I don't know what state we will be in, but
I am a part of the New York Times Guild.
I'm thankful to be part of a unionized workplace. And
we have been negotiating with management for a fair contract
for two years and basically have yet to get what
we see as a fair contract. So we had a
twenty four hour walkout yesterday in which we did not work.
(29:49):
We encourage people to not use New York Times services
for twenty four hours in the hopes that management would
recognize our worth and come to the table with a
fair contract. Hell yeah, fingers crossed that it leads to
the change we're hoping for, because there are people who
do really vital work for the New York Times who
(30:09):
are not paid even close to what they ought to
be paid and have not gotten a raise in two years.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
M mm hmm. That ain't right. Hungry for more Flaky biscuit,
stay tuned. Enough of that, Enough of that, Back to
(30:36):
the interview. What better way to talk about walking out
of work than playing a game. We are going to
play our flaky game now. Okay, you're a yogurt fiend, yes,
and yogurt was a big part of cutty cutty. I
(31:00):
was just I don't know. I was kind of hoping
that you would be like, oh, that was the one
you said it, but you know, you did.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Say it earlier and I totally forgot. But you're pretty
close to nailing the pronunciation.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Cutty cutty cutty. So I've got a few questions for
you to test. It's kind of like who wants to
be a millionaire style, you know, multiple choice questions. Yeah,
I mean like you talk a big yogurt game, so
you better bring your a game here, all right? Are
you ready?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Oh this is so ridiculous because I kind of made
up all right, you'll see, all right. Question number one,
what is the bacteria that is used to make yogurt?
What is the primary bacteria in yogurt? Is it yogo
bacto yogurte ciliate, Lacto Bacsilius bulgaricus, or yogurt modules.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I think it's the third one.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
You are correct, it is Lacto Bacsilius bulgaricus. Here at
flaky biscuit Brian Ford Camp pronounce anything. Just letting you
guys know that one out of one so far, good job. Next,
the earliest yogurts were probably spontaneously fermented by wild bacteria
in what type of container horse hoofs, sheep's wool bags,
(32:19):
sod or goat skin bags?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
What's sod?
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Sod is bricks made out of dirt.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
I'm gonna guess one of the one of the skins. Okay,
what were the two animal possibilities?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Sheep's wool bags or goat skin bags.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Sheep's wool bags or goat skin But like I mean,
horses hooves would be very creative. Yeah, I was gonna
guess sort of clay containers. Maybe the goat. Let's try
the goat.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
You are two for two, Priya. Christa's yogurt instincts are
kicking in. There's no stopping you two for two in
our game here. But there is one more question. Okay,
all right, this one's kind of tough. There are some
accounts that suggest that the Indian emperor Akbar his cooks
would flavor his yogurt with what would it be human
(33:14):
seeds in vanilla? Would it be chili flakes and salt,
mustard seeds and cinnamon, or corn starch and chickpea flour.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I'm gonna guess mustard seeds and cinnamon.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Wow. Three for three, flaky biscuit legend, Flaky Hall of
Famer Priya Krishna with the straight three for three, hitting
home runs left and right. You are clearly the yogurt
expert that you claimed you are. I'm I'm very I'm
actually impressed.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Thank you. I just I love yogurt. What can I say?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yogurt podcasts coming soon?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Ugh, I wish.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So we've had our delicious gutty. You know, we kind
of talked about how Indianish has helped form your career,
which is amazing. Talk to me about what's coming down
the pipeline for you.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I have a book called Pria's Kitchen Adventures, and it's
a book for kids age eight to eleven, and it
features recipes from around the world developed by friends, including
our mutual friend, Chris Ying, And it includes that pickled
green bean with pork recipe, that recipe club viewers just
(34:33):
can't get enough of.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
They cannot get enough of it.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And it's basically about how my mom worked in the
airline industry and we were privileged enough to get to
travel the world. But you know, soon I realized you
don't actually have to leave your kitchen to travel and
you can do it through cooking, so it sort of
leads kids around the world with recipes.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Wow, that is amazing. When's it come out?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I believe next summer.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Pria's Kitchen Adventures that is something that we're all going
to be looking forward to for sure. Thank you for
sharing that you know here at Flaky Biscuit. Also, we
like to talk about what you're doing for your community
now that you found this success, now that you've figured
out who you are as an author, as a cook.
I understand that you work with the South Brooklyn Mutual
Aid and I would love to talk a little bit
(35:17):
about that and what that work means to you. You know,
how how you became involved and what is it exactly
that that does for our community here.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
They do anything in everything, giving warm clothes to people
in need, diapers, helping connect people with COVID vaccine appointments.
When it comes to community service, I feel like it
can be really overwhelming. And someone gave me really amazing advice,
which is like start in your own community. Start where
you live. That is like a great place to just
like immediately make an impact, Like you live in this place.
(35:49):
This place does so much for you give back to
your local community. When COVID vaccine appointments first opened up,
I was a Spanish translator and that was really wonderful
and I just like met so many people while working
at one of the Sunset Park vaccine centers. They accept donations,
but like I think South Brooklyn Mutual Aid is doing
(36:09):
really great work. They're really organized. They are really good
at figuring out how can we make the most impact
and like utilize our volunteers to make the most impact.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I could help you translate Spanish. That'd be fun.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
It's really fun. It's so fun convincing people to like
get vaccinated and like to be able to do it
in like the language they know. And they get really
like excited, and they have first approach really nervous to
like will anyone understand me? And then you immediately put
them at ease. It's it's really great.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Wow, well you learned Spanish because you grew up in Texas.
I'm assuming yeah, but the fact that you're using that
skill set now to improve the community is really wonderful. Priya,
thank you, thank you for doing that. Pria, thank you
(36:59):
so much for joining me today. You know, I was
really nervous about making the cuttie, but the bowl is empty.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Wow clean plate club.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Fam. Make sure that you check out Indianish for that
recipe because it's clearly quite delicious, and look out for
Priya's kitchen adventures as well lots of fun things. I
want to thank you one more time for joining us.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Thank you, Brian, this was so fun.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Thank y'all for listening. Fam. If you want to make
guttie for yourself, find it on Shondaland dot com and
in Priya's cookbook. The recipe is phenomenal. The cookbook is
called indian Ish and Fam, I want to know how
it goes. Tag me artists and Brian, tag Priya Krishna
at Priya Krishna and of course tag Shondalan post photos
(37:45):
videos let us know how y'all did you know what
I'm saying? We're curious to see if it's your first
time making cuttie like it was for me, I want
to hear about your experience. My advice would be to
don't improvise too much, try to follow it to the
tea because you're gonna really get a delicious result. Don't
forget to check out South Brooklyn Mutual Aid at Southbkmutuala
dot com. You can find all the handles and links
(38:07):
I just mentioned in the show notes for this episode.
If you like Flaky Biscuit all right, if you like
flaky layers and delicious morsels of nostalgia, then you know
what to do.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Leave us a beautiful rating, review, Share, subscribe, tell the
whole world, scream it from the rooftops. If you're driving
to work and you want to hear something delicious.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Put on Flaky Biscuit. Thank you so much for joining guys.
Flaky Biscuit is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja,
Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer
is Bridget Kenna and our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder,
with music by Crucial. Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be
found each week on Shondaland dot com. Subscribe to the
(38:52):
Shondaland YouTube channel for more Flaky Biscuit content. Flaky Biscuit
is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com