September 5, 2023 • 42 mins
Host Bryan Ford is joined by home chef Frankie Gaw. Frankie Gaw is a food writer, photographer, and designer. He is the food blogger behind Little Fat Boy, which has won Saveur Blog of the Year and the IACP Individual Food Blog Award, which explores his Taiwanese American roots through creative takes on classic dumplings, noodles, and more. His debut cookbook, First Generation: Recipes from My Taiwanese American Home.
Frankie lets us know what he thinks of Bryan’s attempt to dehydrate cheddar cheese, and they compare notes on their experience growing up as the children of immigrants.
Watch Bryan make his version and Subscribe: Youtube
Recipe from today's episode can be found at Shondaland.com
Join The Flaky Biscuit Community: Discord
Frankie IG: @littlefatboyfrankie
Bryan Ford IG: @artisanbryan
Don’t forget to check out the Asian Counseling and Referral Service at acrs.org, and LYRIC, center for LGBTQQ youth at lyric.org.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome to you, Why.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Ye we get to see you?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to the Flaky Biscuit podcast, where each week we
are cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia. You already know
what it is, meals and recipes that have comforted and
guided our guests to success. I'm really excited about today's
guest because he's such a special person and couldn't be
a more perfect person to talk to today in this
very very moment, because it's a very special week for
(00:47):
our guests. You know, he's someone that's embodied the food
nostalgias of his upbringing and melded it together. Founder of
the food blog Little Fat Boy, which one SEP wors
Blog of the Year as I was sitting right next
to you, and also won the IACP Individual Food Blog
Award and has been nominated for a webby former designer
(01:10):
turned food writer and photographer who creates recipes based on
his Taiwanese American upbringing. Fam Today, I'm welcoming Frankiega was good.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Hi, Thanks for having me, Yes this Man.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Twenty nineteen Blog Awards yeah, I remember being so excited
to meet you.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It was funny because I remember I don't think we
met the whole time we were there up until the
award ceremony, and I remember my mom was the one
who like picked the table and you just happened to
be sitting there and I didn't know who you were
at all. I think back to it, I'm like, wow,
that was like so serendipitous that we sat next to
each other and became friends.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
From that, I agree. You know, before the award ceremony,
I was looking up all the categories and obviously the
aesthetics of your work just caught everyone's eye, and I
was like, that's what I want to do, you know,
with my Hunduran heritage. I was kind of like, yo, that,
like that was inspiration to see you winning that award.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So I just said, it's a really big week for you. Yes,
why don't you tell our listeners what exactly is going on.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
My book, Baby First Generation comes out next week on Tuesday.
So I literally just flew in last night and I
am prepping to do all the promo and go on
book tour. So oh, it feels very like I don't know,
I feel like very far removed from my typical daily life, right,
(02:30):
just like being New York and like doing all this
press and to even just like talk to people that
follow the work, because I feel like just the whole
journey in general has been very isolated, like it's always
been through my phone, right and through digital media. And
so to like meet real people and talk to real
people about this work and the book is it feels
very surreal.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Isn't it surreal? It's so exciting that you're on this journey.
I mean, you're three days away from your book coming Saturday, Sunday,
Monday to Tuesday, four days away from First Generation, which
you know the title of this book, first Generation, so impactful.
It's going to be such a meaningful book on people's shelves.
So make sure you cop that for a generation. You
already know what it is. Another funny thing is that
(03:13):
the hand models in your book wasn't my brother?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Your brother's in it? Yes, his hand is literally in
the book. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah. I remember you put an ad up on socials
and because you're in Seattle, My brother was in Seattle, yeah,
and you were like seeking hand models, and I was like, yo,
I think my brother has nice hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it was so great man.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, I remember putting out a clock because I wanted
more diverse hands in my book because I'm just like
so used to seeing white hands in food media, and
so I wanted to have diversity in the photography.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It's very important that people see, you know, I always
talk about when you go to a restaurant, you might
see the executive chef on the billboard. Yeah, but the
hands that are touching that food. Yeah, you already know
what color. Yeah, yeah, they're usually not white, alright, But
we're going to dive into that now before we get
into the diversity of food media, which is going to
(04:08):
be a big, big, big part of this conversation. I
feel there's something that we talked about, something that you
asked me to make for you. I would like you
to tell the listeners what is it that is nostalgic
to you and food? What brings you back? What is
this food item that I cooked for you? And like why?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah? So I think a lot of people think that
this could be like dumplings, it could be you know, noodles,
But I asked you to make Kraft mac and cheese
for me or some version of it. So that was
my nostalgic item.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I you know, was so excited when you said that,
because because of that, exactly what you said, people expect.
It's like, oh, well, like, you know, look at this cookbook.
Probably And it's not to say that dumplings aren't nostalgic
to you, but the fact that there's an item out
there that's commercially available that most people know that impacts
your life just as much as something more cultural, right,
(05:02):
Like do you feel like mac and cheese is just
as much part of your culture as Taiwanese?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I think one hundred percent. Like I feel like Taiwanese
food is just like part of me, Like I am
very much Taiwanese by heritage, but like I grew up
in the Midwest, like I grew up in Ohio, and
so I find that these commercially available things that you
find your grocery store every day, that people have all
the time, like craft mac and cheese and you know,
box cereal, like these are all things that I loved
(05:29):
just as much, just as I did with dumplings and
with noodles, and so to me, it has like a
sentimental and nostalgic part of my food culture.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
When was the first time you had it? Do you
remember the first time you saw that blue box?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, I was probably like second or third grade, and
I remember it because when I grabbed it on the aisle,
my parents were like, no, you're definitely not We're not
buying that at all. And so I think that made
it even more of a thing that I wanted to have,
Like I craved it. I was like, oh my gosh,
it's like the magical blue box that my parents won't
let me eat. I need to have this, And so
eventually I was able to like get it into the
(06:05):
house and then smug. Yeah, because like and then like
even when we had it in our pantry, like it
would make like healthy snacks or like vegetables for me,
and then they would say, you have to finish this
in order to eat the mac and cheese. So that's
how they kind of got me to eat vegetables and
like eat all the healthy food.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Seems like a smart tactic, but so it was basically
like a reward system. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was
the aversion to bringing mac and cheese into the house?
Was it cultural or was it just health reason?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
They just yeah, they were just like, wow, it's like
this thing is literally me on orange and it's powder like,
and they're just so used to like cooking, cooking, you know,
whole ingredients, and so they were just like, we're not
putting this orange powder in my kid's body. But you
don't understand it's so good.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Did you ever put chopped hot dogs in it?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I would put hot dogs sometimes, but I always put
ramen noodles.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That was like the thing that I would kind of hack.
So I would make the sauce like the powdered sauce,
and then I would boil the ramen noodles separately, and
then I would just like mix the two together. And
that was kind of like my version of making it
into my own. But yeah, I would put hotdogs. Sometimes.
I would put ham, like Deli ham. Sometimes I would
put the pepperoni from like the Lunchables boxes into the
(07:19):
mac and cheese. Like I would kind of just find
whatever and just like you know, spice it up.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yo. Let me tell you something right now, man, I
wish we grew up together. We would have been eating good.
You got I got the ram you know. It's it's
just so interesting that something. It's like you said, it's
something that's just in cabinets and in pantries. I mean,
I feel like any friend from any culture that I've
been to their house growing up in high school, like Nose, Kraft,
(07:45):
Maga Cheese, And to our listeners, this is not a
Craft advertisement. There's no sponsorship here. Now Kraft wants to
donate somebody, that's fine. You know, we're open to that.
This is just genuine real life. You know, we're talking
about this nostalgia and the memories that come up for
us when we think about it. You know, like, do
you have specific memories, let's say, other than when you
(08:07):
first smuggled it in the house. Are there any other
specific moments where that mac and cheese kind of came
through in the clutch?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Oh, I don't know if I have any big moments.
I think my Kraft Mac and cheese like memories are
always tied to like specific moments in time, Like I
always eat it, you know, right after school when I
come home. It'd be like the first thing I would make,
and then I I would make it right away, and
then I'd go straight to the TV and watch Mari.
I would just eat Craft Mac and cheese and Binge
(08:34):
watch mariy and then I also just remember like my
grandma watching me eat the Kraft mac and cheese, and
she'd be like like what is that? So she had
never seen anything like that, Like I don't think there's
anything in Taiwanese cooking that's like neon orange or orange
in color. So I just remember this just complete cognitive
dissonance between like what I was eating and like her
(08:56):
cultural context. I don't know if this is like two
worlds collide, Yeah, then somehow it was all in the
same household.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah. Yeah, I like what you said two worlds colliding,
because I mean seeing something come out of a box
that's just like this color from a crayon box. I
could understand why a grandmother would be like tarnation is
going on here?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, totally. Yeah. She's like so used to like pulling
her own noodles and like making her own sauces, and
then to just see this kid pull out about piece
of microwave and like suld be like what, so.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
You know mac and cheese itself? Have you ever stepped
back to think about like who invented mac and cheese?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I mean, not specificly for craft mac and cheese. But
I think with mac and cheese in general, I mean
I'm assuming it's southern, so.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, oh it's southern, Southern sh So a lot of
people there's like a folklore that Thomas Jefferson created mac
and cheese. People were saying, I think, I think, I
think that's what. There's like a myth about that, and
it's essentially folklore because you know, Thomas Jefferson, you know
how to cook. Because so apparently this dude, I guess
(10:01):
before he was present, traveled to Italy and it was like,
I like that macaroni. But he had a chef with
him that was one of his slaves. And that slave
his name was James Hemings.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Wow, okay, pretty much.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
A master chef. He was cooking really good. Yeah, I
think he's the one that really created this mac and
cheese as a staple, like blending, you know, these cheeses
from Italy, that macaroni noodle. You know, a lot of
people don't realize that macaroni is like it's a whole
thing in Italy. It's definitely like different there than it
is here. It's just a cut a noodle for us.
Someone says, macaroni I'm like, where that neon yellow? Yeah,
(10:37):
and you're right is southern because you know Thomas Jefferson
was not great. Now, yeah, of course it's a credit.
So we got this nostalgic meal. Yeah, and you asked
me to recreate it. So you know there's as a
cook yourself, you know there's some inherent problems here. There
is an ingredients list that is longer than you know
(10:59):
your book. There's a packet of dry powder. So yeah,
here's the approach I took. Okay, and I usually don't
do this, and so I want my listeners to be
uh patient with me, but I had to go get
a food dehydrator. I wasn't that. I'm so sorry it
wasn't that expensive because I didn't want to just make
a roue of cheese sauce and you know, because that's
that's not Kraft mac and geese. Okay, have you ever
(11:21):
tried to recreate it?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I've never tried. In my head, I'm like, I don't
know if I could, Like, I don't have the skill
set to like, so.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Well, don't give me props yet. We don't give me
props yet. But so I get this food dehydrator, I
get a big block of like Walmart great value cheddar cheese,
the good stuff. Okay, we keeping it organic, all right.
I took a stab at making ramen noodles from scratch,
but to be I was like no. I was like,
(11:50):
I cannot serve this to Frankie. You gonna kill me, man.
So I did opt to get the regular ramen, the
dried ones. Yeah right, but the recipe is for this
cheese is dehydrate. Sat here on the counter for like
twelve hours in this machine.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I opened it up and all the oils like on
the bottom. Yeah, it like it like separates, right, Yeah,
it just like starts to separate and oil starts dripping
every gross. So I lift the thing up and like
all this cheddar is like hard, it's dehydrated. Yeah. But
then I smelled it and I was like, oh man,
low key kind of smells like yeah the craft powder. Wow. Okay,
(12:25):
because I went on their website and it says we
dehydrate cheese and spice and shells. All right, that's what
I'm gonna do. So I did it. I added a
little tumeric try to get the color maybe a little
bit too much. I'm about to give it to you
in a minute. What I thought was papriko was actually
cayenne pepper.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So you're in for a bit of a kick. That's
the recipe process. That's how my brain. I was like, Yeah,
I'm gonna just dehydrate cheese, hit it in the blender,
mix it with milk and butter, and see what. Yeah,
it happens. So I think it's time. Yeah, I think
I think the time has come for me to try
to transport you back into your kitchen with your grandmother
(13:02):
looking at you like why are you eating it?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah? Yeah, I haven't had Kraft Mac and cheese for
the record, for like probably maybe two years. So every
year a couple of years, I'll be.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Like, oh I need to have Every two years, you
have like a moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, I like cycle between like one y'all do Kraft
mac and cheese, another y'all do like pizza rolls, and yeah,
I just like go through it, like I'll have phases
around I'm like, wow, I'm craving this thing.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
What triggers the phase?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I don't know, honestly, I think I just like miss
home sometimes, so I'll just be like, oh, I kind
of like want to be reminded of the Midwest.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Oh man, well, I hope that this is going to
take you at least closer to the Midwest than you are.
And if I'm lucky, you'll land smack dab in the middle.
So here we go. We're in a cheers. We're gonna
clink our little glasses together. You don't have to take
more than one bite.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
No, I appreciate, thank you so much for making.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So here we go. We're diving in.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I'm doing big bite. Who good, that's wild that ud
HydroD cheese. I' gonna take another bite.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Oh double bite. Double bite must mean something.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It tastes like you definitely get craft, but definitely tastes
like cheesier, like it has more cheese flavor.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Right, this is where Kraft pulls our sponsorship. But it's
probably because the ingredients and Craft are not you know,
I just use a block of cheese and that was it.
I don't know what else.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
You know.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
They put in a rival flame and die yellow aid
and all that kind of stuff. So but that's the
good stuff. That's what kind of really takes it over
to edge.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And I like the spice. This feels like elevated craft
Mac and cheese.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Oh yeah, baby elevation. Oh yo, you took like four bites.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
But yeah, I would eat more, but we're on on mylf.
I'm not trying to.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Do, you know. Honestly, ASMR of Frankie eating different types
of macaroni and cheese sounds like a pretty successful YouTube channel,
so you might want to pocket that we're rolling into commercials.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Stay tuned, Welcome back to Flaky Biscuit.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I bet that our listeners are dying to know if
I nailed it, if I brought you back, and exactly
what memories just happened? Did you get any memories? Is
it terrible?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
No?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Honestly, it reminds me of home. It definitely reminds me
of like microwaving mac and cheese. Also, like, for some
reason reminded me of going to the Olive Garden because
we used to go to the Olive Garden a lot,
and I'd also always get their mac and cheese there,
and theirs as like a cheesier version of like a
craft mac and cheese, but they use like a white
cheese I think. But it kind of reminded me of
(15:56):
the Olive Garden Wow in Cincinnati where I grew up.
There was no restaurant seene whatsoever. So like the Olive
Garden was like the fancy restaurant.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So you would always go there for like any sort
of special occasions like graduation or like if I got
an a on a test, take me there, and I
always got their mac and cheese there, So I think
that's kind of also what is reminded me.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Of, Oh wow, I feel honored. You know. Honestly, when
I dumped in the dehydrated cheese into the butter and milk,
it completely separated. It did not make it. See if
you can see like kind of the just like weird
orange chunks. Oh, I thought that was a spice agulate.
That's the hydrate cheese being like not spam. Like this
is not the vibe. You should also take a picture
(16:39):
of this, oh yeah, and send to your family and
be like, yeah, I think I did it. I think
I think I brought you back, which is really important
because you know, when I eat food like anywhere, the
first thing is is this, like my mouth, is this
gonna make me feel like I want to feel when
I eat it. I think it's really cool that you know,
(17:01):
you got that kind of feeling from it. Yeah, I
would brought you back to the olive garden.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Oh did Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I like how you said the olive garden. By the way,
it was clearly a very important place because it was like,
are we going to the olive garden? So listen, we
are going to play a little game in a little bit.
Not yet, but I want our listeners to be aware
that the mac and Cheese adventure is not over. But
you know, look, I want to kind of talk about
(17:26):
Little fat Boy Frankie. Yeah, this is your blog, this
is your brand. Yeah, how did this all begin?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Honestly, it started as just a project for myself. I
was working in tech and I wanted just like a
creative outlet to do something on the side to really
express myself. And so I started the blog around twenty
I think sixteen or seventeen. It's kind of around a
time when I was look in my like mid twenties,
(17:55):
and I was like going through a lot of like
personal stuff. So like my dad had just passed away,
and I was trying to figure out who I was,
and like I was in tech. I was like, what
is the point of being in tech? And so I
was just doing a lot of soul searching, and I
felt like food was this comfort for me to kind
of go back to because it was kind of like
my square one. It's like, cooking these dumplings and cooking
(18:17):
steam buns and noodles just reminded me of home, which
is kind of what I needed at that point in time.
And so when I was cooking these dishes, I was
starting to document them because I didn't know how to
cook them at the time, but I knew the flavors
really well, and so I would fly to my grandma's
house and I would document her making steam buns and
making all these traditional dishes. And then that's when I
(18:38):
started posting them on to social media. And because I've
always loved design and photography, that's like always been a
passion of mine as well, I kind of was just like, oh,
it would be really cool to photograph and visualize these
dishes in the same way that food media represents typically
Eurocentric dishes, and I don't know, bringing out that same level.
(19:00):
And so it was almost like a challenge to me
to be like, oh, like, you know, I never see
these like home style dishes from my own heritage. It
was like a challenge should be like, oh, like I
can do this too, you know, represent my food in
a way that also celebrates it and kind of elevates
it visually so that other people can buy into it,
be like, oh, what what is this dish? And like
(19:20):
what are these buns and what's in them? And so
that's kind of how I started the blog, and then
eventually it started to grow up until you know, when
we met at the Civil War blogs, and that's I
feel like that was kind of like one of the
bigger turning points. That's when everything started to shift. You know,
my full time job as a designer started to be
put to the side, and then I was working on
(19:41):
the blog more and exploring my own identities through food.
So you know, I was starting to take these traditional
dishes and put my own creative spins on them and
kind of looking at other parts of me, so like
my Midwestern background and the dishes like you know, Kraft
mac and cheese and box cereals and all these things
that I grew up with too that are also part
of me, and started incorporating that into like my Taiwanese cooking.
(20:04):
And that's really when the blog started to take life,
and when my brand started to.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Grow so wow, Frankie. First of all, thank you so
much for sharing. I can definitely relate on wanting to
bring you know, for example, Central American or hunder and
you know, I don't need to talk too much in detail,
but you know, food media today is it's an interesting place,
and I do feel like our stories have a lot
(20:29):
of potential to kind of continue to climb. Yeah, Whereas
maybe in twenty sixteen or seventeen, I think that's around
when I started my blog too, it felt like it
was going to be tough to break through and to
make it happen, and.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I feel like there is at that time too, there's
almost like an expectation for people of color who were
talking and cooking their food that they had to be
these historical experts of like all that type of cooking.
So like for me, for example, I always felt like
this pressure of oh, like, you're supposed to be an
expert in Taiwanese cooking, whereas I think now I'm very
much like, no, I don't necessarily have to be an
(21:02):
expert of the history of Taiwanese cooking. I think it's
just as important to celebrate the stories of people who
might not feel like they belong in one culture or
the other. So like, you know, I'm Taiwanese and American,
but I feel like I've never belonged to either. I've
only been to Taiwan maybe like two or three times
in my entire life. And so I still feel like
the food that I cook and the food that people
(21:24):
who have my type of background, those stories are still
valid because they have rich history and they have a
lot of context, and you can kind of see them
in a lot of first generation immigrant stories of like
people who, yeah, who just feel like almost like third culture.
I feel like those stories are really important to tell too,
And so I don't think you necessarily have to be
like this encyclopedia of what that specific culture is supposed
(21:47):
to be, because their stories and their personal experiences are
still valid.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, I think once that kind of pretentious ideology of
what we need to be has been erased, we're able
to flourish more. Like, you know, I got, oh, you
don't even own a bakery, so why are you a baker?
Or like what are you even baker? You know what
I mean? Like my content's a little bit different than
most bakers. You know. I struggle with that, but I
think when you break through that, you're like, oh, it
(22:13):
doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, those opinions mean nothing. I'm totally
a baker, right, Yeah. I actually saw I think on
your website you said you're not a chef, for you're not,
you know, I think you are. I mean so when
I look at your videos and you're ridiculously perfect dumplings,
I'm like, this is definitely a chef. That's so funny.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
In my head, I'm still a home cook. I feel
like I'm still learning and I'm still growing, and I've
never worked in a restaurant environment. So to me, I'm
just like, I feel like I can relate to the
home cook more because I'm still figuring it out too.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And yeah, and it's always important to maintain that relatability
because when you have a cookbook, you want people to
feel comfortable. You know. Oh, like he cooks at home.
He's doing this in his home kitchen. I find some
success with I'm like, hey, like I'll take a video
loading bread in this like yanky New York City oven.
People think I'm using some huge setup and I'm like,
I'm just out here with the tiny mixer, some sour
(23:10):
dough in a bowl and like this oven that gives
people the confidence to learn about new cuisines, right, and
I can learn about what it means to kind of
infuse two cultures together. Yeah. Yeah, And something else on
your blog that you said, I think it's I'm gonna
quote it for you. I'm gonna quote yourself to you.
I've always felt somewhere in between being culturally American yet
(23:33):
not white enough and too American to never quite fit
into my own Taiwanese roots. That is powerful, it's powerful.
What do you mean by that? Let our listeners know, Like,
what what does that really mean? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I think that just stems from like when I was
growing up in Ohio, like I held these two cultures.
I was Taiwanese, but I was also American, and I
always felt like they were separate. My home life was
very much Taiwanese, and you know, my family surrounding me
involved me with Taiwanese culture, but I didn't really have
(24:06):
a full reference point to that because I had never
been to Taiwan really like as a kid, and so
I can only imagine things of like, you know what
it was like to grow up in Taiwan, or you
know what it was like to eat these foods. I
only had so much context, and so I never really
felt like I could fully relate to like my parents
or my grandparents when they spoke in Chinese and when
(24:27):
they would talk about their lives in the past and
you know, their life before America.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
But then when I would go out the door, you know,
I kind of shed like my Tawanese version of myself
and I was like, Okay, I'm fully American. I'm almost
like diminishing the Asianists so I can fit in. I
still looked Asian, and so people obviously just got that.
And so I very much like separated those two things.
And so but even when I was with my friends,
you know, outside of my house, I still never felt
(24:54):
like fully like I belonged because yeah, I was Asian,
people obviously wouldn't know that. And so I think that's
what I mean when I'm like, I was kind of
in between, Like I never felt like I belonged to
either bucket. I just never really fully understood what my
identity was or like what I should be proud of.
And it's I think taking me like up until my
twenties to really embrace the fact that like I don't
(25:14):
have to keep those two things separate, like they can
very much be together. So I feel like the cookbook
is very much about like celebrating that journey of like
shame of not wanting to bring attention to my heritage,
but then also like figuring it out as I went
along and eventually being able to be like, Okay, i
am Taiwanese and I'm American. I might not feel like
I fit in both, that's okay, and that should still
(25:37):
be celebrated and there could be good, delicious food that
comes from that.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Right, It's unfortunate that struggle has to happen, Right, I mean,
you're explaining a lot of things that listeners that are
going to hear what you just said and know exactly
what you're talking about. Me being one of them. Yeah,
you know when I listen to what you're saying, that's
giving me goosebumps and making me go back to trying
to figure out if I should hang out with the
black kids or white kids. Neither of them fully accepts me,
(26:02):
but like I had enough pull with them to kind
of hang out a little bit, but there would always
be this like cageness around me, Like, Okay, you know
he's in the smart classes, like he talked too good,
or he had his hair is a little bit different.
And then around the white people, they'd just be like,
you're articulate, you're so well spoken. I don't know if
you've ever gotten that one where oh yeah, so well spoken,
and what am I supposed to sound?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, like, oh, you don't have an accent? And it's like, well, no,
I was born here American.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, your name is Brian Ford. He must be white.
Like you know, there's a lot that goes into this
first generation life. It's interesting the title of your book again,
I bring it back to that because it just it's
gonna be very impactful in people's hands, the fact that
you're sharing what you're sharing. Honestly, I read what you
wrote about your dad and it made me cry. Legit.
(26:52):
Yeah you could ask Bridget. We were on the couch
and I read this post and I can't even imagine
how that must have been for you to write that
and to publish that.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah. So it's basically this essay that is in the
form of a letter to my dad. I put an
excerpt on social media that was from the book. So
and it basically starts out as you know, I haven't
talked to you in seven years, and I go through
all the things that I'm thinking about as I'm making
scallion pancakes. So scallion pancakes was this dish that my
(27:24):
dad always made me on the weekends. And it's like
a flaky, crispy flatbread and there's like scallions in between.
It's salty and it's layered, and so I just talk
about how that dish just reminds me of him, and
how it ties into my Asian identity in a sense
that like the smell, it would always like get onto
(27:46):
my clothes, and so my mom used to always be like, dude,
like stop making these pancakes, so you're gonna make them
so Asian And my dad was always like, yeah, we
are Asian, Like duh, it's so fine. And so the
essay is very much about me speaking to that struggle between,
you know, loving this dish but also feeling like it
(28:06):
makes me stand out as an Asian and then also
kind of navigating my identity trying to figure out my
own queerness. And so you know, I talk about dating
the last girl and how she told me that I
was going to be reincarnated into like a watermelon, and
like I was like, that is crazy, and so I
talk about it in the letter. How you know, it's
funny how food just like is this nostalgic and sentimental
(28:30):
thing that can like remind you of specific memories. So
like anytime I eat watermelon, I always think of that date.
How awful? That well, not awful, but it was just
like like a revelatory date and that it really made
me think, Oh wow, like I really need to think
about who I am and who I want to date
and like who do I want to be? Because I
was like, I don't know if this is this is
for me?
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, this is not the vibe.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, So that the letter is about how food can be.
It's almost like time travel. You eat something and it
takes you back to a very specific moment in time.
And for me, that was when I was struggling with
my identity and so that's what the letter was about.
And I kind of talked through all the things that
have happened to me since and how I'm trying to
live my life now.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So it's incredibly moving. I can't I can't stress enough.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
It's funny because originally when I was first starting the book,
I wasn't planning on sharing anything like I was, because
I'm very much like an introvert. I even in real life,
I'm not much of a sharer. Like all my friends say, oh, like,
you're really good at deflecting, like you always put walls up.
I thought my book was going to be more or
less like my Instagram, but like in book form. So
I would like have these beautiful photos and I would
(29:34):
have these descriptions that are like, oh, this is a
dumpling and it has you know, xyz ingredients and it
tastes like this. And when I wrote the early drafts
and gave it to my friends to kind of give
me feedback, They're like, this doesn't sound like you at all,
Like none of your personality or your stories in here.
And so it kind of made me step back, and
I was just like, Okay, Like, if I'm going to
write a book about Taiwanese American food, like I have
(29:56):
to talk about the context that comes with that. So
you know, the stuff that I dealt with with my identity,
the stuff with grief, with my dad coming out and
like finding myself in that process too, Like all that
was connected. So I was just like, I guess I
have to just write it all in this book, like
I have no choice for it to like feel like
(30:16):
a complete book, and for this food to make sense,
like I need to put something like a letter to
my dad into a cookbook. So that's how I ended
up in there.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Man, let me tell you, you're an inspiration. Honestly, it's so real.
And it's not just the heavy stuff like that. There's
some really funny stuff that you've been posting. Yeah, what
was it you've been dreaming about? Antony? Explain?
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So the last essay, this is the second last but
to me, it's like the climax of the book. It's
an entire dream sequence featuring Antony as.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
God wow, Anthony from Queer Eye right.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Queer Eye. Yeah, And it was literally a dream I had.
So I had this dream and then I went to
the coffee shop the next day and wrote it into
an entire essay. And then that was like the final
big part of the book.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
We got to get him to sponsor your book, do
you know have you reached out?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
So he wrote a blurb for the book. Yeah, it
was full circle. I was like, very wild. Yeah, So
it's cool that he has a blur if he else
is an essay in there.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Man, Yo, you're on cloud nine. You know. I want
to circle back just briefly about your cookbook, like the process.
You know, you're clearly an artist. You photograph your own book,
you styled it, you know, walk me through how that
even works in your brain.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I mean, I mean, I'm much more loosey goosey when
it comes to like my blog, but with the book,
because there was like a deadline, and so I basically
at the beginning of the year, when I was first
starting to write, I mapped out every single recipe and
mapped it to a day of the week, and then
I just followed that schedule. So I had, like I
made an eight month schedule, and eventually I realized that
(31:55):
it was not sustainable to rescue develop and photographed, so
around halfway point, I switched to only recipe developing, and
then I would recook all of them at the end,
towards the end of the deadline, and I photographed them all.
So I was running around a lot, yeah, and I
was styling everything too. So I'd be like putting something
in the oven, and I'd like run to the salvage
(32:15):
jar to get like backgrounds and like random utensils and
then come back and then like finish the thing in
the oven. This just like it's chaos. Wow, I don't
recommend it.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Oh, yeah, you know, I think I went through a phase.
I think I even DMD. Yeah I did. I was like,
I'm going to photograph this cock book because I you know,
I'm going to learn how to use this camera. And
Frank you can do it. I think you told me
spray and pray right basically, just like pick up the
camera and just click the money.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, just take as many photos you can and then
you and post look like okay.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Which and then they'll look like you're dumpling pictures. Psych
you don't want to see my pictures? Oh? Man, is
it wild for you to think that all of this,
all of this is happening now because you decided to
accept that crap mac and cheese and those dumplings at
the same time. Does that ever just make you feel crazy? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I still can't believe, like I have a cookbook that
exists in like this whole even like the blog and
like people who care it all stems from for me
or like everyday things, you know, like dumplings that my
grandma made when I was a kid that I feel
like a lot of other Asian immigrants enjoy just in
the comfort of their own homes. It's just like a
very everyday thing. Or you know, Kraft mac and cheese
(33:27):
or simintos corpt like these are just things that I
feel like so many people have had in their lives
and so to me, like it is crazy that there
is a whole career that's come from a love of
these two very just like homye Like, yeah, foods.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this. Yo, Yo,
it's Brian. You don't like what comes next, Let's get
back into it. It's actually the perfect time to play
(34:10):
our flaky game today because you know, you're talking about
how many people out there are getting nostalgic feelings from
mac and cheese. But did you know that it's not
just in the US that people eat mac and cheese.
I don't know how familiar you are with other cultures
(34:31):
mac and cheese, but we've got a little bit of
mac and cheese trivia for you. Okay, So I'm going
to say the name of a type of mac and cheese,
and I'm going to give you some options, because if
I didn't give you options, you would you know. My
partner here right we're bouncing the ideas is like, he's
not going to know that. So I was like, fine,
we'll do like who wants to be a millionaire style?
(34:53):
We'll give you a little ABC. So the first one
I think is kind of easy. So gotcha at Pepe?
All right?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Is this German, Mexican, Italian or Japanese.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I'd like to go see Italians?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Gotcha is not usually thought of as mac and cheese,
but when you think about it, it feels like literally geese. Yeah,
but you know they like to elevate themselves above the
rest of us.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
The way it goes downhill.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
So for the listeners out there, please, as you listen
to this, help my pronunciation. And if you know any
of these recipes, let me know as well. This one
is macaroni chote Okay, all right? Is that Filipino, Danish,
Indonesian or from Iceland?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Oh I'm gonna go with Uh, I'm gonna go with
the Iceland.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Macaroni chtel is Indonesian?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Oh cool, Okay, I'll have to check that out.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
You have to check these recipes out. Maybe you'll get
this forgive again pronunciation macahau gone recteal, macau goricas. How
I'm gonna get destroyed for this? Is it? Is it
from Portugal, Italy, Brazil or Uruguay?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Oh? I want to say a Portugal.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
You're close. It's Brazili, but it is in Portuguese, so
you're I probably should have only put one Portuguese after
I feel like that was really rude. Okay, Oh yeah,
we're gonna do this one. Okay, this will be the
last one. I don't know if I can pronounce this.
Macarooney lai tico. Oh, okay, macarooney lai tico? All right?
(36:50):
Is that from Sweden, Honduras, Tunisia or Finland.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I'm going to say Tunisia?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Is it is Finish? Oh? Macarooney tko is a Finnish
version of my All these recipes, I know they look incredible. Honestly,
I think it's going to be fun for our listeners
to hear this and ether me for all of my pronunciations,
which I am taking ownership of right now.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, and I apologize for getting all of this wrong.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, please help us out with some you know, if
your Grandma's out there. If you're from Finland and you're like, yo,
my grandma knows how to make macarooney. Latko hit us
with that recipe, man, let's make it. Me and Frankie
want to start a mac and cheese revolution.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
But Frankie, it's been an honor to have you here.
And I think when it comes to the success that
we're achieving as we navigate our careers, it's always important,
you know, for me to find ways to to re
engage with different communities. And I know something that's very
important to you is the Asian Counseling and Referral Service
as well as the Lyrics Center for LGBTQ plus youth. Yes,
(38:04):
talk to me about what it is about these communities
and these organizations that you think about.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, I mean these two organizations I pick because, yeah,
they kind of straddle two identities that I care a
lot about. I feel like those were the two things
that I feel like I hid the most as a child.
I never really stood up for my own Asian culture
and I definitely was not going around saying I was
gay as a kid, like I kept that hidden. So
(38:32):
one is for LGBT youth, the other is for I
believe they just helped the Asian community in the Pacific
Northwest area in general. But they have specific programs for
the elderly or for people who just like need support
financially or need to learn specific work skills, and so
I'm very happy to bring attention.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
To those two. That's amazing. Yeah, like I said, and
I'll say again, you are going to be making a
difference in people's lives. People struggling with their idea. I
mean people who are going to school in high school
and having to hide things or figure out how to assimilate.
It's very important that these conversations are open because if
they're not open, then that same pattern is going to perpetuate.
(39:13):
So Frankiega First Generation is the cookbook. It's out now.
If you're listening to this, if you're streaming this, if
you're in your car and the way to work, pull out,
go be late to work, go to the bookstore, get
First Generation, skip work, que your job and make every recipe.
Maybe not qu your job, Queen your job and make
every single recipe in this book, and then go find
(39:35):
a new job. Thank you so much for coming. It's
a flaky biscuit. It's really great to see you here
in my kitchen. Frankie, thank you so much. Brother. Yeah,
all right, all right, thank y'all so much for listening
to this one, fam that was just so beautiful and heartfelt.
(39:55):
If you want to make my artist in craft mac
and cheese recipe for yourself, find that recipe on shondaland
dot com. I mean, you know I'm making these recipes,
so you make them, so please make them so I
can see how you're doing. Tag at Artis and Brian,
that's me, tag my friend Frankie at Little Fat Boy Frankie,
and of course tag at shondaland shondaland post a photo.
(40:17):
Let us know how y'all did. Get into the discord
and chat about it. We got to start conversations. I mean,
this is a if you ain't have no crab mag
and geese growing up. Tell me why you know what
I'm saying, Like I'm Hispanic. You know what I'm saying.
He come in Taiwanese roots and we both had it,
So let's talk about it. A little advice I can
give you. It's hard to dehydrate cheese and make this
(40:38):
powder taste exactly like it's coming out the box, so
just be patient with yourself. Add the spices that you want,
maybe a little paprika or something, a little smoke paprika
into that dehydrated cheese powder. Just kind of make it
your own and use whatever noodles you feel comfortable with.
It could be the macaroni elbows, it could be the
dry ramen. Also, don't forget to check out the Asian
(40:58):
Counseling and Referral Service at ACRS dot org and Lyric Center.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
For LGBTQ Youth at lyric dot org.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
You can find links to those sites and all the
handles I mentioned in the show notes for this episode.
So if you like Flaky Biscuit, you already know what
to do. Make sure that we are the number one
food podcast to have ever existed.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Leave us to reviews, leave us some ratings.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
You know what I'm saying. Ten stars, twenty stars, thirty
six thousand stars like subscribe, you know what I'm saying.
Hit the discord, check out the YouTube content, check out
all the social media content. Thank you for your support.
Flaky Biscuit is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja,
Lauren Homan Tyler Klang and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer
(41:49):
is Bridget Kenna and our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder,
with music by Crucial. Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be
found each week on Shondaland dot com. Subscribe to the
sho Shondaland YouTube channel for more Flaky Biscuit content. Flaky
Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
(42:13):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome to you, Why.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Ye we get to see you?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to the Flaky Biscuit podcast, where each week we
are cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia. You already know
what it is, meals and recipes that have comforted and
guided our guests to success. I'm really excited about today's
guest because he's such a special person and couldn't be
a more perfect person to talk to today in this
very very moment, because it's a very special week for
(00:47):
our guests. You know, he's someone that's embodied the food
nostalgias of his upbringing and melded it together. Founder of
the food blog Little Fat Boy, which one SEP wors
Blog of the Year as I was sitting right next
to you, and also won the IACP Individual Food Blog
Award and has been nominated for a webby former designer
(01:10):
turned food writer and photographer who creates recipes based on
his Taiwanese American upbringing. Fam Today, I'm welcoming Frankiega was good.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Hi, Thanks for having me, Yes this Man.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Twenty nineteen Blog Awards yeah, I remember being so excited
to meet you.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It was funny because I remember I don't think we
met the whole time we were there up until the
award ceremony, and I remember my mom was the one
who like picked the table and you just happened to
be sitting there and I didn't know who you were
at all. I think back to it, I'm like, wow,
that was like so serendipitous that we sat next to
each other and became friends.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
From that, I agree. You know, before the award ceremony,
I was looking up all the categories and obviously the
aesthetics of your work just caught everyone's eye, and I
was like, that's what I want to do, you know,
with my Hunduran heritage. I was kind of like, yo, that,
like that was inspiration to see you winning that award.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So I just said, it's a really big week for you. Yes,
why don't you tell our listeners what exactly is going on.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
My book, Baby First Generation comes out next week on Tuesday.
So I literally just flew in last night and I
am prepping to do all the promo and go on
book tour. So oh, it feels very like I don't know,
I feel like very far removed from my typical daily life, right,
(02:30):
just like being New York and like doing all this
press and to even just like talk to people that
follow the work, because I feel like just the whole
journey in general has been very isolated, like it's always
been through my phone, right and through digital media. And
so to like meet real people and talk to real
people about this work and the book is it feels
very surreal.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Isn't it surreal? It's so exciting that you're on this journey.
I mean, you're three days away from your book coming Saturday, Sunday,
Monday to Tuesday, four days away from First Generation, which
you know the title of this book, first Generation, so impactful.
It's going to be such a meaningful book on people's shelves.
So make sure you cop that for a generation. You
already know what it is. Another funny thing is that
(03:13):
the hand models in your book wasn't my brother?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Your brother's in it? Yes, his hand is literally in
the book. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah. I remember you put an ad up on socials
and because you're in Seattle, My brother was in Seattle, yeah,
and you were like seeking hand models, and I was like, yo,
I think my brother has nice hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it was so great man.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, I remember putting out a clock because I wanted
more diverse hands in my book because I'm just like
so used to seeing white hands in food media, and
so I wanted to have diversity in the photography.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It's very important that people see, you know, I always
talk about when you go to a restaurant, you might
see the executive chef on the billboard. Yeah, but the
hands that are touching that food. Yeah, you already know
what color. Yeah, yeah, they're usually not white, alright, But
we're going to dive into that now before we get
into the diversity of food media, which is going to
(04:08):
be a big, big, big part of this conversation. I
feel there's something that we talked about, something that you
asked me to make for you. I would like you
to tell the listeners what is it that is nostalgic
to you and food? What brings you back? What is
this food item that I cooked for you? And like why?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah? So I think a lot of people think that
this could be like dumplings, it could be you know, noodles,
But I asked you to make Kraft mac and cheese
for me or some version of it. So that was
my nostalgic item.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I you know, was so excited when you said that,
because because of that, exactly what you said, people expect.
It's like, oh, well, like, you know, look at this cookbook.
Probably And it's not to say that dumplings aren't nostalgic
to you, but the fact that there's an item out
there that's commercially available that most people know that impacts
your life just as much as something more cultural, right,
(05:02):
Like do you feel like mac and cheese is just
as much part of your culture as Taiwanese?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I think one hundred percent. Like I feel like Taiwanese
food is just like part of me, Like I am
very much Taiwanese by heritage, but like I grew up
in the Midwest, like I grew up in Ohio, and
so I find that these commercially available things that you
find your grocery store every day, that people have all
the time, like craft mac and cheese and you know,
box cereal, like these are all things that I loved
(05:29):
just as much, just as I did with dumplings and
with noodles, and so to me, it has like a
sentimental and nostalgic part of my food culture.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
When was the first time you had it? Do you
remember the first time you saw that blue box?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, I was probably like second or third grade, and
I remember it because when I grabbed it on the aisle,
my parents were like, no, you're definitely not We're not
buying that at all. And so I think that made
it even more of a thing that I wanted to have,
Like I craved it. I was like, oh my gosh,
it's like the magical blue box that my parents won't
let me eat. I need to have this, And so
eventually I was able to like get it into the
(06:05):
house and then smug. Yeah, because like and then like
even when we had it in our pantry, like it
would make like healthy snacks or like vegetables for me,
and then they would say, you have to finish this
in order to eat the mac and cheese. So that's
how they kind of got me to eat vegetables and
like eat all the healthy food.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Seems like a smart tactic, but so it was basically
like a reward system. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was
the aversion to bringing mac and cheese into the house?
Was it cultural or was it just health reason?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
They just yeah, they were just like, wow, it's like
this thing is literally me on orange and it's powder like,
and they're just so used to like cooking, cooking, you know,
whole ingredients, and so they were just like, we're not
putting this orange powder in my kid's body. But you
don't understand it's so good.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Did you ever put chopped hot dogs in it?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I would put hot dogs sometimes, but I always put
ramen noodles.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That was like the thing that I would kind of hack.
So I would make the sauce like the powdered sauce,
and then I would boil the ramen noodles separately, and
then I would just like mix the two together. And
that was kind of like my version of making it
into my own. But yeah, I would put hotdogs. Sometimes.
I would put ham, like Deli ham. Sometimes I would
put the pepperoni from like the Lunchables boxes into the
(07:19):
mac and cheese. Like I would kind of just find
whatever and just like you know, spice it up.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yo. Let me tell you something right now, man, I
wish we grew up together. We would have been eating good.
You got I got the ram you know. It's it's
just so interesting that something. It's like you said, it's
something that's just in cabinets and in pantries. I mean,
I feel like any friend from any culture that I've
been to their house growing up in high school, like Nose, Kraft,
(07:45):
Maga Cheese, And to our listeners, this is not a
Craft advertisement. There's no sponsorship here. Now Kraft wants to
donate somebody, that's fine. You know, we're open to that.
This is just genuine real life. You know, we're talking
about this nostalgia and the memories that come up for
us when we think about it. You know, like, do
you have specific memories, let's say, other than when you
(08:07):
first smuggled it in the house. Are there any other
specific moments where that mac and cheese kind of came
through in the clutch?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Oh, I don't know if I have any big moments.
I think my Kraft Mac and cheese like memories are
always tied to like specific moments in time, Like I
always eat it, you know, right after school when I
come home. It'd be like the first thing I would make,
and then I I would make it right away, and
then I'd go straight to the TV and watch Mari.
I would just eat Craft Mac and cheese and Binge
(08:34):
watch mariy and then I also just remember like my
grandma watching me eat the Kraft mac and cheese, and
she'd be like like what is that? So she had
never seen anything like that, Like I don't think there's
anything in Taiwanese cooking that's like neon orange or orange
in color. So I just remember this just complete cognitive
dissonance between like what I was eating and like her
(08:56):
cultural context. I don't know if this is like two
worlds collide, Yeah, then somehow it was all in the
same household.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah. Yeah, I like what you said two worlds colliding,
because I mean seeing something come out of a box
that's just like this color from a crayon box. I
could understand why a grandmother would be like tarnation is
going on here?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, totally. Yeah. She's like so used to like pulling
her own noodles and like making her own sauces, and
then to just see this kid pull out about piece
of microwave and like suld be like what, so.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
You know mac and cheese itself? Have you ever stepped
back to think about like who invented mac and cheese?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I mean, not specificly for craft mac and cheese. But
I think with mac and cheese in general, I mean
I'm assuming it's southern, so.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, oh it's southern, Southern sh So a lot of
people there's like a folklore that Thomas Jefferson created mac
and cheese. People were saying, I think, I think, I
think that's what. There's like a myth about that, and
it's essentially folklore because you know, Thomas Jefferson, you know
how to cook. Because so apparently this dude, I guess
(10:01):
before he was present, traveled to Italy and it was like,
I like that macaroni. But he had a chef with
him that was one of his slaves. And that slave
his name was James Hemings.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Wow, okay, pretty much.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
A master chef. He was cooking really good. Yeah, I
think he's the one that really created this mac and
cheese as a staple, like blending, you know, these cheeses
from Italy, that macaroni noodle. You know, a lot of
people don't realize that macaroni is like it's a whole
thing in Italy. It's definitely like different there than it
is here. It's just a cut a noodle for us.
Someone says, macaroni I'm like, where that neon yellow? Yeah,
(10:37):
and you're right is southern because you know Thomas Jefferson
was not great. Now, yeah, of course it's a credit.
So we got this nostalgic meal. Yeah, and you asked
me to recreate it. So you know there's as a
cook yourself, you know there's some inherent problems here. There
is an ingredients list that is longer than you know
(10:59):
your book. There's a packet of dry powder. So yeah,
here's the approach I took. Okay, and I usually don't
do this, and so I want my listeners to be
uh patient with me, but I had to go get
a food dehydrator. I wasn't that. I'm so sorry it
wasn't that expensive because I didn't want to just make
a roue of cheese sauce and you know, because that's
that's not Kraft mac and geese. Okay, have you ever
(11:21):
tried to recreate it?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I've never tried. In my head, I'm like, I don't
know if I could, Like, I don't have the skill
set to like, so.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Well, don't give me props yet. We don't give me
props yet. But so I get this food dehydrator, I
get a big block of like Walmart great value cheddar cheese,
the good stuff. Okay, we keeping it organic, all right.
I took a stab at making ramen noodles from scratch,
but to be I was like no. I was like,
(11:50):
I cannot serve this to Frankie. You gonna kill me, man.
So I did opt to get the regular ramen, the
dried ones. Yeah right, but the recipe is for this
cheese is dehydrate. Sat here on the counter for like
twelve hours in this machine.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I opened it up and all the oils like on
the bottom. Yeah, it like it like separates, right, Yeah,
it just like starts to separate and oil starts dripping
every gross. So I lift the thing up and like
all this cheddar is like hard, it's dehydrated. Yeah. But
then I smelled it and I was like, oh man,
low key kind of smells like yeah the craft powder. Wow. Okay,
(12:25):
because I went on their website and it says we
dehydrate cheese and spice and shells. All right, that's what
I'm gonna do. So I did it. I added a
little tumeric try to get the color maybe a little
bit too much. I'm about to give it to you
in a minute. What I thought was papriko was actually
cayenne pepper.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So you're in for a bit of a kick. That's
the recipe process. That's how my brain. I was like, Yeah,
I'm gonna just dehydrate cheese, hit it in the blender,
mix it with milk and butter, and see what. Yeah,
it happens. So I think it's time. Yeah, I think
I think the time has come for me to try
to transport you back into your kitchen with your grandmother
(13:02):
looking at you like why are you eating it?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah? Yeah, I haven't had Kraft Mac and cheese for
the record, for like probably maybe two years. So every
year a couple of years, I'll be.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Like, oh I need to have Every two years, you
have like a moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, I like cycle between like one y'all do Kraft
mac and cheese, another y'all do like pizza rolls, and yeah,
I just like go through it, like I'll have phases
around I'm like, wow, I'm craving this thing.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
What triggers the phase?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I don't know, honestly, I think I just like miss
home sometimes, so I'll just be like, oh, I kind
of like want to be reminded of the Midwest.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Oh man, well, I hope that this is going to
take you at least closer to the Midwest than you are.
And if I'm lucky, you'll land smack dab in the middle.
So here we go. We're in a cheers. We're gonna
clink our little glasses together. You don't have to take
more than one bite.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
No, I appreciate, thank you so much for making.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So here we go. We're diving in.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I'm doing big bite. Who good, that's wild that ud
HydroD cheese. I' gonna take another bite.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Oh double bite. Double bite must mean something.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It tastes like you definitely get craft, but definitely tastes
like cheesier, like it has more cheese flavor.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Right, this is where Kraft pulls our sponsorship. But it's
probably because the ingredients and Craft are not you know,
I just use a block of cheese and that was it.
I don't know what else.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
You know.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
They put in a rival flame and die yellow aid
and all that kind of stuff. So but that's the
good stuff. That's what kind of really takes it over
to edge.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And I like the spice. This feels like elevated craft
Mac and cheese.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Oh yeah, baby elevation. Oh yo, you took like four bites.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
But yeah, I would eat more, but we're on on mylf.
I'm not trying to.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Do, you know. Honestly, ASMR of Frankie eating different types
of macaroni and cheese sounds like a pretty successful YouTube channel,
so you might want to pocket that we're rolling into commercials.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Stay tuned, Welcome back to Flaky Biscuit.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I bet that our listeners are dying to know if
I nailed it, if I brought you back, and exactly
what memories just happened? Did you get any memories? Is
it terrible?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
No?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Honestly, it reminds me of home. It definitely reminds me
of like microwaving mac and cheese. Also, like, for some
reason reminded me of going to the Olive Garden because
we used to go to the Olive Garden a lot,
and I'd also always get their mac and cheese there,
and theirs as like a cheesier version of like a
craft mac and cheese, but they use like a white
cheese I think. But it kind of reminded me of
(15:56):
the Olive Garden Wow in Cincinnati where I grew up.
There was no restaurant seene whatsoever. So like the Olive
Garden was like the fancy restaurant.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So you would always go there for like any sort
of special occasions like graduation or like if I got
an a on a test, take me there, and I
always got their mac and cheese there, So I think
that's kind of also what is reminded me.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Of, Oh wow, I feel honored. You know. Honestly, when
I dumped in the dehydrated cheese into the butter and milk,
it completely separated. It did not make it. See if
you can see like kind of the just like weird
orange chunks. Oh, I thought that was a spice agulate.
That's the hydrate cheese being like not spam. Like this
is not the vibe. You should also take a picture
(16:39):
of this, oh yeah, and send to your family and
be like, yeah, I think I did it. I think
I think I brought you back, which is really important
because you know, when I eat food like anywhere, the
first thing is is this, like my mouth, is this
gonna make me feel like I want to feel when
I eat it. I think it's really cool that you know,
(17:01):
you got that kind of feeling from it. Yeah, I
would brought you back to the olive garden.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Oh did Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I like how you said the olive garden. By the way,
it was clearly a very important place because it was like,
are we going to the olive garden? So listen, we
are going to play a little game in a little bit.
Not yet, but I want our listeners to be aware
that the mac and Cheese adventure is not over. But
you know, look, I want to kind of talk about
(17:26):
Little fat Boy Frankie. Yeah, this is your blog, this
is your brand. Yeah, how did this all begin?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Honestly, it started as just a project for myself. I
was working in tech and I wanted just like a
creative outlet to do something on the side to really
express myself. And so I started the blog around twenty
I think sixteen or seventeen. It's kind of around a
time when I was look in my like mid twenties,
(17:55):
and I was like going through a lot of like
personal stuff. So like my dad had just passed away,
and I was trying to figure out who I was,
and like I was in tech. I was like, what
is the point of being in tech? And so I
was just doing a lot of soul searching, and I
felt like food was this comfort for me to kind
of go back to because it was kind of like
my square one. It's like, cooking these dumplings and cooking
(18:17):
steam buns and noodles just reminded me of home, which
is kind of what I needed at that point in time.
And so when I was cooking these dishes, I was
starting to document them because I didn't know how to
cook them at the time, but I knew the flavors
really well, and so I would fly to my grandma's
house and I would document her making steam buns and
making all these traditional dishes. And then that's when I
(18:38):
started posting them on to social media. And because I've
always loved design and photography, that's like always been a
passion of mine as well, I kind of was just like, oh,
it would be really cool to photograph and visualize these
dishes in the same way that food media represents typically
Eurocentric dishes, and I don't know, bringing out that same level.
(19:00):
And so it was almost like a challenge to me
to be like, oh, like, you know, I never see
these like home style dishes from my own heritage. It
was like a challenge should be like, oh, like I
can do this too, you know, represent my food in
a way that also celebrates it and kind of elevates
it visually so that other people can buy into it,
be like, oh, what what is this dish? And like
(19:20):
what are these buns and what's in them? And so
that's kind of how I started the blog, and then
eventually it started to grow up until you know, when
we met at the Civil War blogs, and that's I
feel like that was kind of like one of the
bigger turning points. That's when everything started to shift. You know,
my full time job as a designer started to be
put to the side, and then I was working on
(19:41):
the blog more and exploring my own identities through food.
So you know, I was starting to take these traditional
dishes and put my own creative spins on them and
kind of looking at other parts of me, so like
my Midwestern background and the dishes like you know, Kraft
mac and cheese and box cereals and all these things
that I grew up with too that are also part
of me, and started incorporating that into like my Taiwanese cooking.
(20:04):
And that's really when the blog started to take life,
and when my brand started to.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Grow so wow, Frankie. First of all, thank you so
much for sharing. I can definitely relate on wanting to
bring you know, for example, Central American or hunder and
you know, I don't need to talk too much in detail,
but you know, food media today is it's an interesting place,
and I do feel like our stories have a lot
(20:29):
of potential to kind of continue to climb. Yeah, Whereas
maybe in twenty sixteen or seventeen, I think that's around
when I started my blog too, it felt like it
was going to be tough to break through and to
make it happen, and.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I feel like there is at that time too, there's
almost like an expectation for people of color who were
talking and cooking their food that they had to be
these historical experts of like all that type of cooking.
So like for me, for example, I always felt like
this pressure of oh, like, you're supposed to be an
expert in Taiwanese cooking, whereas I think now I'm very
much like, no, I don't necessarily have to be an
(21:02):
expert of the history of Taiwanese cooking. I think it's
just as important to celebrate the stories of people who
might not feel like they belong in one culture or
the other. So like, you know, I'm Taiwanese and American,
but I feel like I've never belonged to either. I've
only been to Taiwan maybe like two or three times
in my entire life. And so I still feel like
the food that I cook and the food that people
(21:24):
who have my type of background, those stories are still
valid because they have rich history and they have a
lot of context, and you can kind of see them
in a lot of first generation immigrant stories of like
people who, yeah, who just feel like almost like third culture.
I feel like those stories are really important to tell too,
And so I don't think you necessarily have to be
like this encyclopedia of what that specific culture is supposed
(21:47):
to be, because their stories and their personal experiences are
still valid.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, I think once that kind of pretentious ideology of
what we need to be has been erased, we're able
to flourish more. Like, you know, I got, oh, you
don't even own a bakery, so why are you a baker?
Or like what are you even baker? You know what
I mean? Like my content's a little bit different than
most bakers. You know. I struggle with that, but I
think when you break through that, you're like, oh, it
(22:13):
doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, those opinions mean nothing. I'm totally
a baker, right, Yeah. I actually saw I think on
your website you said you're not a chef, for you're not,
you know, I think you are. I mean so when
I look at your videos and you're ridiculously perfect dumplings,
I'm like, this is definitely a chef. That's so funny.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
In my head, I'm still a home cook. I feel
like I'm still learning and I'm still growing, and I've
never worked in a restaurant environment. So to me, I'm
just like, I feel like I can relate to the
home cook more because I'm still figuring it out too.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And yeah, and it's always important to maintain that relatability
because when you have a cookbook, you want people to
feel comfortable. You know. Oh, like he cooks at home.
He's doing this in his home kitchen. I find some
success with I'm like, hey, like I'll take a video
loading bread in this like yanky New York City oven.
People think I'm using some huge setup and I'm like,
I'm just out here with the tiny mixer, some sour
(23:10):
dough in a bowl and like this oven that gives
people the confidence to learn about new cuisines, right, and
I can learn about what it means to kind of
infuse two cultures together. Yeah. Yeah, And something else on
your blog that you said, I think it's I'm gonna
quote it for you. I'm gonna quote yourself to you.
I've always felt somewhere in between being culturally American yet
(23:33):
not white enough and too American to never quite fit
into my own Taiwanese roots. That is powerful, it's powerful.
What do you mean by that? Let our listeners know, Like,
what what does that really mean? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I think that just stems from like when I was
growing up in Ohio, like I held these two cultures.
I was Taiwanese, but I was also American, and I
always felt like they were separate. My home life was
very much Taiwanese, and you know, my family surrounding me
involved me with Taiwanese culture, but I didn't really have
(24:06):
a full reference point to that because I had never
been to Taiwan really like as a kid, and so
I can only imagine things of like, you know what
it was like to grow up in Taiwan, or you
know what it was like to eat these foods. I
only had so much context, and so I never really
felt like I could fully relate to like my parents
or my grandparents when they spoke in Chinese and when
(24:27):
they would talk about their lives in the past and
you know, their life before America.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
But then when I would go out the door, you know,
I kind of shed like my Tawanese version of myself
and I was like, Okay, I'm fully American. I'm almost
like diminishing the Asianists so I can fit in. I
still looked Asian, and so people obviously just got that.
And so I very much like separated those two things.
And so but even when I was with my friends,
you know, outside of my house, I still never felt
(24:54):
like fully like I belonged because yeah, I was Asian,
people obviously wouldn't know that. And so I think that's
what I mean when I'm like, I was kind of
in between, Like I never felt like I belonged to
either bucket. I just never really fully understood what my
identity was or like what I should be proud of.
And it's I think taking me like up until my
twenties to really embrace the fact that like I don't
(25:14):
have to keep those two things separate, like they can
very much be together. So I feel like the cookbook
is very much about like celebrating that journey of like
shame of not wanting to bring attention to my heritage,
but then also like figuring it out as I went
along and eventually being able to be like, Okay, i
am Taiwanese and I'm American. I might not feel like
I fit in both, that's okay, and that should still
(25:37):
be celebrated and there could be good, delicious food that
comes from that.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Right, It's unfortunate that struggle has to happen, Right, I mean,
you're explaining a lot of things that listeners that are
going to hear what you just said and know exactly
what you're talking about. Me being one of them. Yeah,
you know when I listen to what you're saying, that's
giving me goosebumps and making me go back to trying
to figure out if I should hang out with the
black kids or white kids. Neither of them fully accepts me,
(26:02):
but like I had enough pull with them to kind
of hang out a little bit, but there would always
be this like cageness around me, Like, Okay, you know
he's in the smart classes, like he talked too good,
or he had his hair is a little bit different.
And then around the white people, they'd just be like,
you're articulate, you're so well spoken. I don't know if
you've ever gotten that one where oh yeah, so well spoken,
and what am I supposed to sound?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, like, oh, you don't have an accent? And it's like, well, no,
I was born here American.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, your name is Brian Ford. He must be white.
Like you know, there's a lot that goes into this
first generation life. It's interesting the title of your book again,
I bring it back to that because it just it's
gonna be very impactful in people's hands, the fact that
you're sharing what you're sharing. Honestly, I read what you
wrote about your dad and it made me cry. Legit.
(26:52):
Yeah you could ask Bridget. We were on the couch
and I read this post and I can't even imagine
how that must have been for you to write that
and to publish that.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah. So it's basically this essay that is in the
form of a letter to my dad. I put an
excerpt on social media that was from the book. So
and it basically starts out as you know, I haven't
talked to you in seven years, and I go through
all the things that I'm thinking about as I'm making
scallion pancakes. So scallion pancakes was this dish that my
(27:24):
dad always made me on the weekends. And it's like
a flaky, crispy flatbread and there's like scallions in between.
It's salty and it's layered, and so I just talk
about how that dish just reminds me of him, and
how it ties into my Asian identity in a sense
that like the smell, it would always like get onto
(27:46):
my clothes, and so my mom used to always be like, dude,
like stop making these pancakes, so you're gonna make them
so Asian And my dad was always like, yeah, we
are Asian, Like duh, it's so fine. And so the
essay is very much about me speaking to that struggle between,
you know, loving this dish but also feeling like it
(28:06):
makes me stand out as an Asian and then also
kind of navigating my identity trying to figure out my
own queerness. And so you know, I talk about dating
the last girl and how she told me that I
was going to be reincarnated into like a watermelon, and
like I was like, that is crazy, and so I
talk about it in the letter. How you know, it's
funny how food just like is this nostalgic and sentimental
(28:30):
thing that can like remind you of specific memories. So
like anytime I eat watermelon, I always think of that date.
How awful? That well, not awful, but it was just
like like a revelatory date and that it really made
me think, Oh wow, like I really need to think
about who I am and who I want to date
and like who do I want to be? Because I
was like, I don't know if this is this is
for me?
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, this is not the vibe.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, So that the letter is about how food can be.
It's almost like time travel. You eat something and it
takes you back to a very specific moment in time.
And for me, that was when I was struggling with
my identity and so that's what the letter was about.
And I kind of talked through all the things that
have happened to me since and how I'm trying to
live my life now.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So it's incredibly moving. I can't I can't stress enough.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
It's funny because originally when I was first starting the book,
I wasn't planning on sharing anything like I was, because
I'm very much like an introvert. I even in real life,
I'm not much of a sharer. Like all my friends say, oh, like,
you're really good at deflecting, like you always put walls up.
I thought my book was going to be more or
less like my Instagram, but like in book form. So
I would like have these beautiful photos and I would
(29:34):
have these descriptions that are like, oh, this is a
dumpling and it has you know, xyz ingredients and it
tastes like this. And when I wrote the early drafts
and gave it to my friends to kind of give
me feedback, They're like, this doesn't sound like you at all,
Like none of your personality or your stories in here.
And so it kind of made me step back, and
I was just like, Okay, Like, if I'm going to
write a book about Taiwanese American food, like I have
(29:56):
to talk about the context that comes with that. So
you know, the stuff that I dealt with with my identity,
the stuff with grief, with my dad coming out and
like finding myself in that process too, Like all that
was connected. So I was just like, I guess I
have to just write it all in this book, like
I have no choice for it to like feel like
(30:16):
a complete book, and for this food to make sense,
like I need to put something like a letter to
my dad into a cookbook. So that's how I ended
up in there.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Man, let me tell you, you're an inspiration. Honestly, it's so real.
And it's not just the heavy stuff like that. There's
some really funny stuff that you've been posting. Yeah, what
was it you've been dreaming about? Antony? Explain?
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So the last essay, this is the second last but
to me, it's like the climax of the book. It's
an entire dream sequence featuring Antony as.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
God wow, Anthony from Queer Eye right.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Queer Eye. Yeah, And it was literally a dream I had.
So I had this dream and then I went to
the coffee shop the next day and wrote it into
an entire essay. And then that was like the final
big part of the book.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
We got to get him to sponsor your book, do
you know have you reached out?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
So he wrote a blurb for the book. Yeah, it
was full circle. I was like, very wild. Yeah, So
it's cool that he has a blur if he else
is an essay in there.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Man, Yo, you're on cloud nine. You know. I want
to circle back just briefly about your cookbook, like the process.
You know, you're clearly an artist. You photograph your own book,
you styled it, you know, walk me through how that
even works in your brain.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I mean, I mean, I'm much more loosey goosey when
it comes to like my blog, but with the book,
because there was like a deadline, and so I basically
at the beginning of the year, when I was first
starting to write, I mapped out every single recipe and
mapped it to a day of the week, and then
I just followed that schedule. So I had, like I
made an eight month schedule, and eventually I realized that
(31:55):
it was not sustainable to rescue develop and photographed, so
around halfway point, I switched to only recipe developing, and
then I would recook all of them at the end,
towards the end of the deadline, and I photographed them all.
So I was running around a lot, yeah, and I
was styling everything too. So I'd be like putting something
in the oven, and I'd like run to the salvage
(32:15):
jar to get like backgrounds and like random utensils and
then come back and then like finish the thing in
the oven. This just like it's chaos. Wow, I don't
recommend it.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Oh, yeah, you know, I think I went through a phase.
I think I even DMD. Yeah I did. I was like,
I'm going to photograph this cock book because I you know,
I'm going to learn how to use this camera. And
Frank you can do it. I think you told me
spray and pray right basically, just like pick up the
camera and just click the money.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, just take as many photos you can and then
you and post look like okay.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Which and then they'll look like you're dumpling pictures. Psych
you don't want to see my pictures? Oh? Man, is
it wild for you to think that all of this,
all of this is happening now because you decided to
accept that crap mac and cheese and those dumplings at
the same time. Does that ever just make you feel crazy? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I still can't believe, like I have a cookbook that
exists in like this whole even like the blog and
like people who care it all stems from for me
or like everyday things, you know, like dumplings that my
grandma made when I was a kid that I feel
like a lot of other Asian immigrants enjoy just in
the comfort of their own homes. It's just like a
very everyday thing. Or you know, Kraft mac and cheese
(33:27):
or simintos corpt like these are just things that I
feel like so many people have had in their lives
and so to me, like it is crazy that there
is a whole career that's come from a love of
these two very just like homye Like, yeah, foods.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this. Yo, Yo,
it's Brian. You don't like what comes next, Let's get
back into it. It's actually the perfect time to play
(34:10):
our flaky game today because you know, you're talking about
how many people out there are getting nostalgic feelings from
mac and cheese. But did you know that it's not
just in the US that people eat mac and cheese.
I don't know how familiar you are with other cultures
(34:31):
mac and cheese, but we've got a little bit of
mac and cheese trivia for you. Okay, So I'm going
to say the name of a type of mac and cheese,
and I'm going to give you some options, because if
I didn't give you options, you would you know. My
partner here right we're bouncing the ideas is like, he's
not going to know that. So I was like, fine,
we'll do like who wants to be a millionaire style?
(34:53):
We'll give you a little ABC. So the first one
I think is kind of easy. So gotcha at Pepe?
All right?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Is this German, Mexican, Italian or Japanese.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I'd like to go see Italians?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Gotcha is not usually thought of as mac and cheese,
but when you think about it, it feels like literally geese. Yeah,
but you know they like to elevate themselves above the
rest of us.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
The way it goes downhill.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
So for the listeners out there, please, as you listen
to this, help my pronunciation. And if you know any
of these recipes, let me know as well. This one
is macaroni chote Okay, all right? Is that Filipino, Danish,
Indonesian or from Iceland?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Oh I'm gonna go with Uh, I'm gonna go with
the Iceland.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Macaroni chtel is Indonesian?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Oh cool, Okay, I'll have to check that out.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
You have to check these recipes out. Maybe you'll get
this forgive again pronunciation macahau gone recteal, macau goricas. How
I'm gonna get destroyed for this? Is it? Is it
from Portugal, Italy, Brazil or Uruguay?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Oh? I want to say a Portugal.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
You're close. It's Brazili, but it is in Portuguese, so
you're I probably should have only put one Portuguese after
I feel like that was really rude. Okay, Oh yeah,
we're gonna do this one. Okay, this will be the
last one. I don't know if I can pronounce this.
Macarooney lai tico. Oh, okay, macarooney lai tico? All right?
(36:50):
Is that from Sweden, Honduras, Tunisia or Finland.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I'm going to say Tunisia?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Is it is Finish? Oh? Macarooney tko is a Finnish
version of my All these recipes, I know they look incredible. Honestly,
I think it's going to be fun for our listeners
to hear this and ether me for all of my pronunciations,
which I am taking ownership of right now.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, and I apologize for getting all of this wrong.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, please help us out with some you know, if
your Grandma's out there. If you're from Finland and you're like, yo,
my grandma knows how to make macarooney. Latko hit us
with that recipe, man, let's make it. Me and Frankie
want to start a mac and cheese revolution.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
But Frankie, it's been an honor to have you here.
And I think when it comes to the success that
we're achieving as we navigate our careers, it's always important,
you know, for me to find ways to to re
engage with different communities. And I know something that's very
important to you is the Asian Counseling and Referral Service
as well as the Lyrics Center for LGBTQ plus youth. Yes,
(38:04):
talk to me about what it is about these communities
and these organizations that you think about.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, I mean these two organizations I pick because, yeah,
they kind of straddle two identities that I care a
lot about. I feel like those were the two things
that I feel like I hid the most as a child.
I never really stood up for my own Asian culture
and I definitely was not going around saying I was
gay as a kid, like I kept that hidden. So
(38:32):
one is for LGBT youth, the other is for I
believe they just helped the Asian community in the Pacific
Northwest area in general. But they have specific programs for
the elderly or for people who just like need support
financially or need to learn specific work skills, and so
I'm very happy to bring attention.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
To those two. That's amazing. Yeah, like I said, and
I'll say again, you are going to be making a
difference in people's lives. People struggling with their idea. I
mean people who are going to school in high school
and having to hide things or figure out how to assimilate.
It's very important that these conversations are open because if
they're not open, then that same pattern is going to perpetuate.
(39:13):
So Frankiega First Generation is the cookbook. It's out now.
If you're listening to this, if you're streaming this, if
you're in your car and the way to work, pull out,
go be late to work, go to the bookstore, get
First Generation, skip work, que your job and make every recipe.
Maybe not qu your job, Queen your job and make
every single recipe in this book, and then go find
(39:35):
a new job. Thank you so much for coming. It's
a flaky biscuit. It's really great to see you here
in my kitchen. Frankie, thank you so much. Brother. Yeah,
all right, all right, thank y'all so much for listening
to this one, fam that was just so beautiful and heartfelt.
(39:55):
If you want to make my artist in craft mac
and cheese recipe for yourself, find that recipe on shondaland
dot com. I mean, you know I'm making these recipes,
so you make them, so please make them so I
can see how you're doing. Tag at Artis and Brian,
that's me, tag my friend Frankie at Little Fat Boy Frankie,
and of course tag at shondaland shondaland post a photo.
(40:17):
Let us know how y'all did. Get into the discord
and chat about it. We got to start conversations. I mean,
this is a if you ain't have no crab mag
and geese growing up. Tell me why you know what
I'm saying, Like I'm Hispanic. You know what I'm saying.
He come in Taiwanese roots and we both had it,
So let's talk about it. A little advice I can
give you. It's hard to dehydrate cheese and make this
(40:38):
powder taste exactly like it's coming out the box, so
just be patient with yourself. Add the spices that you want,
maybe a little paprika or something, a little smoke paprika
into that dehydrated cheese powder. Just kind of make it
your own and use whatever noodles you feel comfortable with.
It could be the macaroni elbows, it could be the
dry ramen. Also, don't forget to check out the Asian
(40:58):
Counseling and Referral Service at ACRS dot org and Lyric Center.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
For LGBTQ Youth at lyric dot org.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
You can find links to those sites and all the
handles I mentioned in the show notes for this episode.
So if you like Flaky Biscuit, you already know what
to do. Make sure that we are the number one
food podcast to have ever existed.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Leave us to reviews, leave us some ratings.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
You know what I'm saying. Ten stars, twenty stars, thirty
six thousand stars like subscribe, you know what I'm saying.
Hit the discord, check out the YouTube content, check out
all the social media content. Thank you for your support.
Flaky Biscuit is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja,
Lauren Homan Tyler Klang and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer
(41:49):
is Bridget Kenna and our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder,
with music by Crucial. Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be
found each week on Shondaland dot com. Subscribe to the
sho Shondaland YouTube channel for more Flaky Biscuit content. Flaky
Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
(42:13):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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