November 14, 2023 • 53 mins
Host Bryan Ford is joined by comedian Hari Kondabolu. The NY Times called him “one of the most exciting political comics in stand-up today” in response to his 2018 Netflix special, Warn Your Relatives. His 2017 truTV documentary, The Problem with Apu, created a global conversation about race and representation, and is now used in high school, college and grad school curriculums around the country. Hari joins Bryan for a conversation about colonialism and civil rights over a thoroughly uncivil meal of krispies, cookes and mangos.
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Recipe from today's episode can be found at Shondaland.com
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Hari Kondabolu IG: @harikondabolu
Bryan Ford IG: @artisanbryan
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Flaky Biscuit. You already know what
it is. Each episode, I'm cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia,
meals and recipes that have comforted and guided our guests
to success. I'm making a recipe from scratch. The recipe
(00:22):
lives on Shondaland dot com. I really want you, guys
to to make these recipes along with us. Tag us
when you're making it, we really want to see what
you come up with. Does your family have a version
of this? Has your parents or siblings ever made this
for you?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Do you know how to make it better than me? Probably?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I have someone extremely incredible and special in the kitchen
today has some very interesting thoughts on nostalgic food as well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think first time I've encountered it. We'll get into it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It's stand up comedian and writer is comedy cover subjects
such as inequity and equality, racial stereotypes. He was a
writer Totally Biased with Camile Bell, and the creator of
the twenty seventeen documentary film The Problem with Poo. The
New York Times calls him one of the most exciting
political comics and stand up today.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
You know you're right here nodding your head.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm like shoot to be fair.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
They wrote that in like twenty eighteen, So today was
a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Hey, today, tomorrow, yesterday. My friend also the co host
of the Netflix food competition show Snack Versus Chef and
former immigrant rights organizer in Seattle. So many, many, many,
many things that we'll get into. Please welcome mister Harry Condebald.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
It's Hurry, Condebolu, Harry Condibolu. Yeah, you got it.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I fucking sat here for an hour pronouncing your name,
and when the moment came, I fucked up.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It's okay, I know, it's I've learned that some sounds
are hard when you're not used to making that Haury,
it's like hurry, It's like Harry, It's like writing between
a sound that, like in South Indian language, is probably
a lot easier, right, Just it's subtle. But yeah, honey, Horry, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, I've you know, son of immigrants. But my name
is Brian Ford. You know, so I never run into
people actually always think I'm white, especially when they hear
me on the phone. Really like, oh yeah, mister Brian Ford,
Oh great, we'll see you tomorrow. I'll show up and
they'll be like, who the fuck are you. I'm like,
I'm bing for Sorry, does Brian Stephen Ford at that.
(02:25):
I want to start this episode off with something a
little bit different, actually, and I hope that you will
be excited about it. Today it's not actually the Flaky
Biscuit podcast. Today it's it's mangoes. Oh my god, Oh
my god, it's mango talk.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Oh man, you have no idea how badly I've wanted
to make Mango Talk. I I've pitched it to podcast networks.
They've all said no, none of them understand, like this
is an affordable luxury around the world. Or you can't
afford anything, you're broke, you can a mango and it's
the most delicious thing in the world.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Like this is beautiful. It really is.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And I wish I was able to find, you know,
the alphonse, the fancy harder to get mangoes. These are
Latin American mangoes. There's three different types. But I thought today,
you know what, I know, it's Flaky Biscuit, but why
not why not start off with mango talk? Like, I
like this right, you know, these knives and these paper towels.
We're not here to eat cookies. They're here for us
to cut up and eat some mango. To the listeners,
(03:29):
I've got a few different mangoes here.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Why don't you guide me through? Like what's your step one?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I mean, like, oh, dude, like there is no My
mom can cut this into like nice little triangles that
people can eat and like. And then then you have
the seed that obviously everybody wants the seed because it's
just like whatever flesh is left and juice and stuff.
I don't do it in any way that's reasonable. I
just cut a chunk off and I eat it. Let's
do it and it gets real messy. Oh, I just
(03:54):
try to avoid the seed.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You know. I love this neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
This is a Bangladeshi neighborhood, and pretty much all of
the corner stores.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Just have boxes of mangoes.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
So I just walked out there and I was like,
oh man, there's like a box of mango here, box
and mango's there.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You're already like halfway in we wanted. Yeah, that one
was a little harder.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
It's still not. Despite the fact that the US took
away the embargo against Indian mangos, they still don't have them.
You can get them for about a hundred bucks. You
could get maybe like six to eight and have them
shipped from India. But then it's like you have to
eat them immediately because they're already on the h oh.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
That is wild knowledge.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
After my special came out on Netflix, people sent me
a boxwom which was great. Yeah, but they sent to
my parents' house, so I never got a chance to eat.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Your parents gobbled them. So what are you tasting right now?
Like if this was mango talk, which it kind of is, like,
talk me through what's happening.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I mean, it's it's not as juicy as I would
prefer it. Certainly it's not a bad mango, but.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I think this is a Dominican mango. Yeah, there is
a Dominican mango here. That one.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It's hard to have a bad mango. I hate the
stringiness of mangos. I feel like that's often something that
you see in like Western mangoes, but particularly the this
is a Tommy Atkins mango. I'd read an article I
think in The Juggernaut, which is great South Asian American
magazine about like the history of mangoes, and they all
come from India and we're like brought to different parts
(05:22):
of the world from there. So when they were brought
to the US, most like the Alfonso mango plant, all
these great mango plants, the soil here just it wouldn't take.
So the ones that survived are these like really kind
of tough mangos. So you get really stringy mangos that
are all right, But like the stringiness I never like
because I've tasted like mangoes just there isn't stringing. This
(05:43):
is just juicy.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Interesting. So are you saying that's more specific to South Asia?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I don't think it's just South Asia, but I think
I don't think I've ever had a bad mango in
India before, and I've definitely had bad mangos here, and
a bad mango here is still better than an apple,
you know what I mean. It's better than a pair,
but it's you know, it's an inferior mango.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Damn apples and pears under the bus wick. I lived
in Miami for about five years and I was fortunate
enough to have mango trees in my neighbor's yard in
in my friend's yard where I lived. You know, I
don't remember the specific type. I mean there's like thousands
of mangoes, man, I mean you know there's literally, I know,
in Florida or the Caribbean, like there can be thousands
(06:26):
of types of mangoes. And absolutely they might not be
the world renowned mangos, but they're still there.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
I mean, there's so many factors of what makes a mango.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What does get into this big on what did you
say this one was called.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
At least corn Stickrett's or Tommy It means that the
Tommy Atkins it's water malin. Well, definitely. If it's too soft,
I imagine it's gonna be like like anything like like
a saw spot's number doing a great thing. Yeah, yeah,
I don't want it too green. You know you're looking
for that that sweet spot where there's maybe a little
green so it could last a day, but it's like reddish,
(06:56):
and you know, I want that inside to be soft.
I don't want to have to chew too much. It's
supposed to almost melt in your mouth. I'm looking for.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
It can be hard sometimes up here in New York
to find good avocado mango, even pineapples sometimes, but the
green ones. There was a tree in Miami I lived by.
I used to bike a lot Miami, so I would
like know where mango trees were to go and get
the mangoes that I liked.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
But there was a green one.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
They never, I swear, they never really ripened, so we
would eat them with salt. Really yeah, I like kind
of unripe green's.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I haven't explored that, but that's actually a really interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Learn it from a Nicaraguan friend. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I've always eaten mangoes as is. And for the first
time this is embarrassing to say I bought a mango
off the street, which I've done before, you know, the slices.
Oh absolutely, And I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna
do it the way like a lot of my Mexican
friends have told me to do it, which is with
the tahina mmmmmm. And I did not like it.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
No, it wasn't your cup of tea.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
No, no, it was not my chai as we would say.
You can edit that out later. I mean, look, it
just didn't like it was too much, like I couldn't
enjoy the mango and like it's delicious, it's incredible. It
just is a different It's not I wanted mango.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, you're a mango purist. You're very much in the
in the realm. I see I see it in your eyes.
I can see it in your maneuvers.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
You really I mean a few mango.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, eat a couple of mags.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I remember I had a really bad breakup, maybe twelve
years ago, and I remember one of the lowest moments
gets somehow still a pleasant memory. I bought a box
of mangoes. I was watching the Ken Burns documentary Baseball,
and I was eating mango after mango after mango, all
alone in that department. And it's sad and at the
(08:41):
same time, like those were the best mangos I'd had
in them.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I needed, you needed those I need?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
They were Yeah, they were, they were. They were a hug.
Those mangoes were like life when I needed it. And
plus nobody was around. It's just me. You could just
go to town on these mangos. Like there was no politeness,
there was no worrying about Oh no, my my shirt
it's covered in mango. Get another shirt, cover that one
in melbo. Yeah. Man, it was just honest, raw mango
(09:09):
eating just gluttony. It was straight up I'm going to
get every bit of flesh off these mangoes. And it
was a really good memory during a really bad time.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Well, I'm glad you were able to have that good memory,
and I appreciate you sharing it with me. So I
noticed you're not eating the skin of the mango.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I don't eat them. Do you eat the skin?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I do?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I had never done that.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I think it was my dad that ate mango skins.
But also like my dad, I was like, this must
just be something that he does. But there are some
people that eat mango skins. It's apparently nutritious.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
What you're watching right now, by the way, is me
being honest with you about how I eat mango.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I love this, and I should be doing the same
thing all everywhere.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Just get it all.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
So I love this.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I thought you were going to have some sort of
techniques of some certain you're just.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Run to waste time with that. You know how those
videos of people like they chop it up so they're
like little squares that you can take off and stuff
not interesting to oh.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Like making the little flour, it's like making the little design.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And I'm like Okay. First of all, the seed doesn't
really factor into eating it in this way. Secondly, the
time you're taking is time you could be eating the thing.
None of this makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I mean, I've stuck the mango seed or two, that's
for sure. So listen.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
This was a small preview to the listeners, producers, executives
out there. This is mango talk, baby, This is really good.
This is the real deal. This is like we're you know,
getting the fibers out, eating skin sucking seeds. Oh, we're
not done with the mangoes and we're definitely not done
with the history just yet, but we do need to
move into you letting our listeners know the other nostalgic
(10:44):
meal that I have prepared for you today. Tell us
a little bit about why when the first time you
had it, and what significance it has in your life.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I mean to me, like I think, I think it's
probably true with a lot of people. But when I
would come home and smell cookies as a kid, it
was the greatest thing in the world. I made cookies
and my mom at that point didn't work. She was
a doctor in India as she came to this country
and she spent the first nine ten years of my
life being a stay at home mom, and there was
something so incredibly there's a security in that come home
(11:15):
and my mom's there, and there are cookies there, and
I loved that. I loved eating the cookie dough when
she was making them. I loved eating cookies as my
snack when I got home. And the same thing with
rice Krispy Streets. And there's also something about the fact
that these are traditional American dishes. And my parents are
(11:35):
immigrants from southern India, and my mom was always big
on keeping your identity while still finding ways to be
part of a different culture. Sometimes it didn't always make
sense to me, like I'm gonna take you to Burger
King because Americans eat burgers, so you're you're gonna eat hamburgers,
which is weird because we're Hindu, We're not supposed to
eat beef, which I didn't know for a very long
(11:56):
time really because it was never told to me. Like
all the story raised, the religious STIs were there, but
like I didn't know that beef was not a thing.
And my mom's attitude towards it is like I know
a lot of Hindus that don't eat beef, and they're
not the best people. And so to me, if I
raise you eating beef and yet you're a good human being,
then I've done my job. And so my mom was
(12:18):
always very deliberate about that, but she believed, like, you know,
you're an American and so this is a thing Americans do,
and it's kind of funny that she saw fast food
as one of those quintessential American things, like this is
part of the assimilation or integration process. But you're gonna
have your birthday party of burger King. You're like, you
even eat hamburgers. And so I think something about that
(12:39):
my mom is making this thing that the other kids
also get at home meant something part of me looking
at it, was like, it's kind of sad not being
able to understand that the uniqueness of your home is
a good thing, but wanting to have what everyone else
is having, which you know, like the idea of Indian
snacks and Indian foods almost being scene is embarrassing because
(13:01):
the kids would make fun of me for having them,
but they wouldn't if it was a sandwich or cookies
or something else. And it was something that immediately made
me relatable.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Right it's almost like a defense mechanism too. It's like
a way to kind of protect your kid. Like, yeah,
you know in Hunteras we eat badiadas, which is uh
a tortilla with beans, cream and cheese. Now to the
average person, you're like, oh, so like a taco, like
a burrito, you know, and so going to school with that,
it's like, oh, how's your taco? And it's like when
you're a kid, you're like, how do I explain this?
I'm not I'm just gonna go cry.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I don't have time to explain this. They're making fun
of me.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Easier to bring a sandwich, right, Easier to bring the cookies,
Easier to bring the lunchible.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Oh man, lunchable. That helped.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
How american did you feel? We are American, but like
you know, at home, our parents were like it, take this,
take the lunchable because yeah, like that's gonna win you
over with with those kids.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
The lunchible.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Oh yeah, oh you got the name brand snack. You
got the thing that we see on TV. You have
to fruit roll up, you got a dunkaru like this
is somebody here?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, you already know I wanted to have those good snacks.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's so funny to think about how much of it is,
Like I don't want to feel weird. I don't want
to stand out.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Correct in this. We were kids kids.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
It's interesting now, Like there's nothing more I love talking
about than how afrohunder and I.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Am, how unique my individual experiences in the world.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, oh man. But as a kid, it's like it's scary.
It's like, oh no, I don't want to talk about this.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I just want I was totally like, yeah, call me Harry,
Like I went by Harry until I was in junior
high school, just because who wants to rock the boat
and if the teacher can't pronounce your name, And like
the first time I remember feeling that like I'm going
to establish my identity was in the sixth grade after
elementary school, where I told the teacher it's pronounced hurry
(14:45):
and I didn't get hurry back. Whatever I got was
an improvement, and I just remember thinking, like that feels
really good. And I think a lot of people do
that when they go to a new school. They try
to recreate their identity, and I did it in a
way where I'm like, I just don't want to keep
feeling like two different people in my name feels like that.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, wow, that's very interesting how just your name almost
gave you different identities.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I was able to hide behind my name.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I feel like like my name wasn't My dad wanted
to name me Julio Cesare, which was ridiculous, love you,
love you. But the way I was explained to it,
they had this conversation like, no, like, let's give him
like a white name, British slave trade, lots of black Hundurans.
Have you know Peter Rowland, Jerry, these kinds of names,
(15:29):
But they thought specifically for us to kind of just like,
let's keep it easy. Hungry for more flaky biscuit, stay tuned,
(15:50):
Welcome back to Flaky Biscuit. I think it's past time
to try the chocolatechip cookies and a right Christy, let me.
I want to know what you're seeing, smelling, tasting.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
My mom made like more traditional chocolate chip cookies. They
definitely didn't have chocolate in my oh. I love it though,
just like real melty inside.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I got some cookie dough as well. If you want
to take home, actually bake them or eat it or
whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Eat it on the train back. This is incredible.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So your mom made chocolate chip cookie is kind of
a more traditional base, not all the way chocolate.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
But hey, I took a stab.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
That's incredible cookie. Man.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I'm not gonna there are bad cookies out there. So
for the listeners, recipes, very simple ratios three two one.
I think it was a flour, butter, sugar, of course,
some vanilla eggs, beat it, added cocoa powder. I mean,
at the end of the day, I didn't even put
like sour dough or anything like that. It usually will
make a sour dough cookie, so it's a pretty traditional cookie.
(16:53):
I'll have the recipe up on Shondaland dot com for
y'all to try at home.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But I will say it is a It is a
beautiful cookie.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
It is just just chopped it all over the place.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
What did you think about the rice grisbee I.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Think they're incredibly well done, and it like you could
have sold these like there. Like it definitely brings me
back because it's a rice grisbees tree and so there's
just only so much variation if you're using certain set
of ingredients. But at the same time, it didn't because
it was too good. Not to insult my mom's But
like there were some bites that I would take and
(17:29):
I'm like this is crunchy, and I take other bites,
I'm like, oh, this is where all the marshmallow is.
It's uneven, not by a choice, it's just how it
ended up. The imperfection was part of the recipe. But
you can't recreate imperfection. That's I but.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That little those little moments are the ones that like
you're smiling, you know, it's kind of because that literally
brings you back to being She didn't.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
She didn't.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
She missed this whole half of the rice space tree
and they're still unmelted marshmallow. And but that's part of it,
like the fact that like she's not a professional acre
or a chef, and she's doing it with love and
the skills that she does have. And same thing with
the cookies. You know, like you made me cookies that
people would pay money to eat. You know, my mom's
(18:12):
cookies people would pay money if they were for a
bake sale to raise money for something. They're solid cookies,
but they're not gourmet, they're just solid mom cookies. You know.
It's the person time I really thought about like how
those kind of imperfections and things that aren't exactly like
the what you get in the store actually kind of
makes the thing.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah yeah, I love that so real quick to make
these rice crispies, like you already know, man, I mean
they got the recipe on a back of a box
that a rice Crispy Cereal.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
You know, a little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Of butter marshmallows. Once that gets creamy, you just fold
in the uh, the rice Crispy cereal. Just put it
on sheet pants, spread it into kind of a thin
layer and when it hardens up, cut it into squares.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And here we are.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So I feel like between the cookie, the rice crispies
and the mangoes, let our listeners are, was I really
able to kind of bring you back a little bit?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
You? Absolutely? Because how often do you think I'm eating
this combination of things like this is my childhood? Do
you know, like a lot of sugar?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Well, yes, some natural exactly being in a family of immigrants,
like you know, my dad used to like take empty
suitcases back to Honduras and get cheese and you bring
it back and like, I think that taste. You can't
really replace that taste with stuff that you can find
in the States sometimes, and I think some food memories
(19:38):
get they get stripped away or like you don't have
access to those.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
No, I think that's that's totally it. I think, like,
look at my friend Ali Buzari, who's one of the
judges on Snap Versus Chef. His father's from Iran, and
you know, he talks about cherries that his dad would
talk about her certain types of fruit where he hasn't
had these things in so long, and a lot of times,
eat something and immediately it reminds me of people I
(20:03):
was with at a certain time, or a memory I
haven't even thought about, and all of a sudden, I
remember where I was and who I was with, And
it almost feels like you lose that trigger, right, you
lose that thing that brings back all those memories. So
it almost feels like you don't have access to certain
memories because you don't have the things that would give
you access to them, the keys to it, the source, yeah, exactly,
source material exactly. And so there's something really sad about
(20:26):
that loss.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I mean, you know, we do the best we can
here to mitigate those circumstances, but at the end of
the day, without the source material, it's hard to really
it's hard to really invoke that feeling. And as you
as you continue to eat these cookies, I know they're good.
So where do you think this chocolate's from that I
used to make these cookies?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
The chocolate or the cacao beans, That's.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
What I'm hinting out.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Let's just say, let's just say the chocolate, like the
package that I opened. Yeah, what do you think it's
said on that package?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Spititualan or Belgium.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yes, we're here. We've made it to the part of
the conversation that we've been waiting to get to. This
is Belgian chocolate. And I thought this was hilarious because
we were I was just watching your bits last night
and I was just dying to the listeners who aren't familiar,
we're talking about the origin of like what does Belgian
chocolate even mean? I know this is something you incorporate
(21:26):
into your work, but I'd love for you to kind
of just explain that phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I think it's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Because the sugar, there's no sugar in Belgium that's being
shipped from impossibly Latin America and African country or and
cacao beans are certainly not grown in Belgium, so that's
also coming from other countries as well. So at what
point do we give Belgian's credit?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Right?
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Is it the stirring? Is it putting it in the oven? Like,
at what point is it yours? Because it sounds like
everything that we love about it is from other places.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, the raw materials used. You know, if you think
about things like vanilla, if you think about things like
you know, Kyle Beat chocolate and sugar and all this
kind of thing, where is it being made right in
Latin America and Africa? This conversation can go two ways.
We can just start laughing or we can get real real,
We can do a combination of both. But if you
think about Latin America, like, it was designed to be exploited. Yeah,
(22:17):
from the get go, it was designed to function the
way it's functioning right now, chaos. It was designed to
be stripped of its resources. It was designed to be
this way, and people seem to forget that when they're
enjoying their fine Belgian chocolates and Swiss confections and all this,
you know, the beauty of.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
It's a bit of a buzzkill.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, you know, the romanticism, the romanticization, romanticization, the
romanticization of the Western white culinary world is astonishing to me.
It's astonishing how deep we allow ourselves to go and
kind of believing this, Oh yeah, Belgian chocolate's the best,
and no one just stops for two seconds to think about,
(22:56):
like what does make it Belgium?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I never really thought about it that way until I
watch a bit last night We'll get out and this
is kind of my work. I think about colonization, and
but with chocolate, I was like, damn, he's right.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Go. I was like, where why is it Belgian?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I'll tell you what made me think of that? Like,
I saw this video on YouTube of I think it
was a Dutch reporter who goes to the Ivory Coast
and meets cacao farmers, like people who like grow this
stuff and then also who like have to go up
and pick them and all that, and it was interested.
They had no idea what they were for. They had
no idea what the coca was for. They thought it
(23:33):
was for some wine that Europeans liked, Like, they had
no concept. They'd never had chocolate before. And these are
people who like spend all day like picking this stuff
and it's a brutal job, and they have no idea
what it's for, the idea that this is for someone
else's luxury product. Right, And then they tried chocolate, and
the excitement and the shock and disbelief of you're making
(23:57):
this out of it because like, it doesn't it tastes
like what it tastes like until you add all the
other pieces, Like the kuan itself is doesn't. That's not
what it's like. And so something in a moment it
was kind of beautiful, like they finally get to taste
this thing, and the other part of me is like, man,
that's so messed up. The idea that the poor never enjoyed,
the spoils people building the iPhones, they're not using iPhones.
(24:22):
The people who are like getting the metal that's used
in the iPhones, they don't get access to the iPhone.
All the things that maybe we so many of us
take for granted in the quote unquote developed world comes
from the suffering of poor people in other countries who
have no access to this stuff. And there's something about
(24:42):
then thinking about like Belgian chocolate, Swiss chocolate, and something
that they pride themselves on and it's something people want.
If it said I recoast chocolate probably not going to
sell the same way. Different with coffee. For some reason,
it seemed very different, like they don't talk about the
roaster as much as talk about like what what country is?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, yes, yes, and no. I mean I've been kind
of there is a trendy element to coffee roasters right
now that I've noticed a beautiful Ethiopian roast is actually
a blend, you know, And they taught it's like how
much you really know about that Ethiopian roast though?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Right?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
You know? How much of it is it just smoking mirrors?
I did.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
This is just my humble opinion of kind of the
trend of coffee, because you know, when you're in Latin America,
it's coffee.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
It's it's good.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
You get good, delicious coffee. No one's running around parading.
It almost feels like it's a bit of a parade.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Well, it's also kind of imagining the places that it's
grown and that's part of what makes it exotic. This
is coming from Rwanda, yeah, this is coming from Sri Lanka.
Like it's just like, how did you get access to
this coffee, it makes it feel like it's hard to get.
And this is fascinating you guys from this place. I
mean with chocolate, like I don't I have no idea
where the ca caw meines ever come from, right, I know,
(25:53):
like what country mixed it together and sent it over?
But like the imagination that you create in people with
coffee is really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, exploring new cultures through coffee, through chocolate, through food
is great. But when it gets kind of exploited like Mescott,
you know you talked about the tacos made by a
white person or whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
It's right, there's there were people.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
In Wahaca when I was there, tech guys from Seattle,
and they were We're gonna take over the mescal game.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Oh I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, yeah they came.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
They came, We're gonna take over the messcal game.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
They said, out a dinner with us, And I was.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Like, what, you don't understand how that sounds? Like you're
a straight up colonizer, Like straight up like taking over
this industry that is from another country with another tradition.
That's like no concept of how that sounds and what
it is you are.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Doing yeah, gotta plants. You know, these plants take forty
years to grow. And the friend we were with who
was in the industry actually from Wahaka, He's like, so,
are you going to buy land and grow this for
forty years? Like or are you just gonna come and
like short someone.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
They should have asked them that, like you gonna buy somebody?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, And they like deflected, like, oh, well, you know,
we're just you know, we're talking from a strategic They
just had a whole bunch of language to do. At
the end of the day, they're looking to just go
buy some families plants that's already producing, put a fancy
label on it, and then breid it up here as
like this fine mescal and everyone's gonna drink it because.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's a new, cool thing to drink. That was one
of those moments I was.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Like, when it stops being asked cool, what are you
gonna do? Are you gonna are you gonna just sell
that off someone else?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Ye? Sell the George Clooney Now, no disrespect to George clue.
I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
It is kind of because you know, we talked about
like sometimes you eat something and whether it's from a
white person's restaurant. Be there's this dosa restaurant that I've
eaten food at, and I was very cynical because like
its own and run by white people. Then I'm like, yo,
this truffle dosa is incredible, and part of you is
like is it okay that I love this? Or even
(27:48):
thinking about some of my favorite dishes of all time,
Like there's this dish fool that's popular in Mediterranean Middle East,
and you know, through trade roots and stuff, it ended
up in Ethiopia and Eritrea. And there's a place called
Cafe Salam in Seattle, just a really small little restaurant,
and their fool is incredible. And the other restaurants I've
been to Ethiopian places and Richman places and Seattle always
(28:10):
mentioned Cafe Salam's fool, like that's the one we go
to too, because that's incredible. It's like one of my
top five favorite dishes of all time. And I was
thinking about the fact that, like the trade route that
got this to Ethiopia must have been treacherous, people dying
the kind of lost just like for these trade routes,
and I was thinking, they're eating it with bread, and
(28:31):
it was Italian bread originally, right, and that's because of
space in colonialism. And I'm like, so this bread that
is delicious is the result of that. And then I
think about the fact, well they're not using Italian bread,
they're using French bread in this particular restaurant from a
Cambodian bakery, which is the result of the French colonization
of Cambodia. And yet the meal is bomb like it's
(28:53):
so good and the number of people who died and
it's suffered for me to eat it, and yet it's
so good, Like what do you do?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
What do you do about that?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
How to be honest, I think it's a question that
can't really be answered because you know, my next books
about Latin American baking and at the end of the
day a Semita ana France, like all you know, the
wheat based breads, how did those come to be? It's like,
you know, there's like the fun version like oh, well,
you know, Christopher Columbus sailed over and they planted wheat
(29:25):
and everything, you know, and they started in orders of
reality where they brutalized and enslaved and murdered people forced
them to grow a certain crop ruined most of Brazil
and Cuba with sugarcane and all.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It just like when you.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Dive in, it's like, oh man, this guncha was great.
It's like the real source material of Latin American baking.
Like you were just saying, like, you know, Cambodian baking
even like bond mee bread.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And stuff like that like that. You know, how did
it really go down?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Like was a French colonist like so skilled at baking
that they were like, hey, check out this shaping technique.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
No, yeah, like made this or I'll kill you.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Make this roll kill you. You think they were giving
a bread workshop, all right, guys, everyone take your everyone
take your seat. You should have a mixing bowl. No,
it was like make this long for the king or
we'll kill you. Right, And that's terrifying to think about
when you're trying to enjoy a meal, right.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Right, And at the same time, you know, there's something
to be said about colonized people are they're forced to
use what's left over from the trauma, right, Like whether
it's like, okay, the British built railways in South Asia
and India, right, and they used it for exploitation. It
was easier to when you steal people's grains or valuables
(30:38):
to ship into different parts of the country with this
railway system. Yet the infrastructure is still being used by
Indians and is a very valuable thing in India. And
you know, the same thing is true. I think with food,
it's like these foods and these crops are the remnants
of this horrific period. They're gone, We're still left with it.
We're gonna make the best of it. Yeah, And that's
(31:00):
like the other way of seeing it. Like on one hand,
like yeah, I've thought about that too. Bond Me is
so popular, but like, why is that bread there? It's
very good.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I wanted to talk briefly or our listeners, you know,
might not know much about your story, like how did
you know how did you get into comedy?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Like how did food? You know? How did these cookies
play a role in that?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
You know, do you find comfort when you're on tour
eating a chocolate chip cookie every now and then?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Like I mean, I think there's a reason why some
of the best comedians of all time come from like
marginalized cultures, right, whether it's anti semitism or racism. Talking
about the results of slavery and Jim Crow like you
have to survive, and you know, laughter is this incredible
defense mechanism. It's a way to almost it feels like
it's a way to save yourself and heal and clearly
(31:46):
has an evolutionary advantage, because why on earth are we
still laughing? There must be something that gives us that
we that we need. And so, you know, as Indian
American kid who didn't see myself on TV, that didn't
hear my voice being heard ever, and getting to a
point where I started wondering, when are we going to
exist outside of the Simpsons. You know, it was, you know,
seeing Margaret chow do stand up on television when I
(32:09):
was like fourteen or fifteen. She's Korean American talking about
growing up in San Francisco, like a far different reality.
But the fact that like she was talking about it
and people were laughing and she had control was like hope.
It's like, oh, man, if she can do that, could
I do that? And so I started writing in high
school and I performed through college, and you know, I
(32:32):
moved to Seattle to be an immigrant rights organizer, which
very much like both my political and comedic path very
much a result of nine to eleven. I was nineteen
when it happened, or eighteen actually when it happened, about
to turn nineteen, and I became like this politicized person
who started to ask questions like, we're going to war,
Why are we going to war? How is this different
(32:53):
than Vietnam? Like it seems like repeating things? Or I
thought about the targeting of South Asians and the government targeting,
the deportations, attentions, the hate crimes, and then you start
to realize, this is what black people do with all
the time. I started asking bigger questions. I started taking
classes that added more fuel to it. I started reading
more things and surrounded myself with people who like really
(33:15):
educated me. And so I moved to Seattle to be
an immigrant rights organizer, and my comedy was starting to
reflect that kind of I'm up here, I better say something.
In addition to the fact that, like, it's not like
I wanted to really talk about anything else anyway, because
I was completely I am still very much obsessed with
why are things so unfair? Right? And the fact that
(33:36):
like we treat history like it's the distant pass and
as if we're not still currently living it. And shaping it. Clearly,
history is important, because why else in Florida are they
banning history? Are they preventing kids from learning so they
know the power of having control over the narrative and
of the story. And so that is terrifying.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I mean, there's a lot of terrifying things and to
unpack from what you just said, but just bringing that
up right there gives me chill, like bad chills, like
the bad.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Any regime that like is trying to control their people
always gets rid of history, erasing the past and creating
a new one where you can fall in line and
you don't question things and you don't question why things
are unfair, and it is devastating to me. And so
that stuff always seemed fascinating. What aren't they telling us?
And the books are missing a lot of stuff. The
(34:26):
idea that black history being marginalized to a month when
the country was built on like indigenous and black and
immigrant backs is immediately like, you.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Know, being older and reflecting upon what I learned in
social studies, Damn, they didn't teach shit. They didn't really
tell us anything. They just these little stories, these cute
little like I was saying earlier, it's like, oh, and
they came, you know, even the animations I've seen in
textbooks that kids have, and it'll be like Thomas Jefferson,
like with a shovel planning some some plants like that
(34:59):
man was not right people doing it for him, and
it just like our great founding fathers. Oh, so you know,
they're amazing.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
They're deities. They're treated like deities, as flawless beings who
created this incredible system. And when you start questioning their histories,
people get upset. And that's with you know, every figure,
like even you know, Gandhi, like has a lot of
stuff in his story that is not so pleasant, and
that's part of the story you can't ignore part of
the story. Doesn't mean what he did wasn't important, but
(35:29):
that's part of the story. I think a lot about
the fact that, like, we studied World War Two a
lot more than we ever studied slavery, at least in
my experience going to schools in New York, we studied
the Holocaust a lot. And after years I wondered, why
do we study the Holocaust so much but not slavery
so much? And part of it is because it didn't
happen here, Holocaust happened somewhere else. There are different bad guys, right,
(35:51):
We're not the bad guys in the story, the Germans.
It's the access powers. They're the bad guys. And dropping
the bomb in Japan was justified. There's no critic. Look
at where we are and the parallels to like killing
people destroying culture. We're talking about people from all over
Europe whose lives were taken, and you're talking about slavery
(36:11):
people from throughout the continent of Africa whose cultures and
lies also destroyed. That The parallels are incredible, Yet we
don't talk about it.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
The reason it's not talked about is because the descendants
of these slaves are here and the people in charge
don't like them.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
It's that simple.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
It's Look, you weren't slave for four hundred years, all right, Go,
I don't know, Go figure your life out. We're not
gonna we're not gonna like try to fix this. We're
not gonna we're not gonna influx your community with resources, money, textbooks,
and healthcare. We're gonna put other things in there, but
we're not gonna put those things in there that are
actually gonna help these families recuperate. From hundreds of years
of being enslave. No, we're not gonna do that, and
(36:48):
in fac we're not gonna talk about it no more.
Let's take it out of the text. But it's mind blowing.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
And whenever people say, like you've had this much time,
how come your communities haven't changed, it's like so ahistorical.
You just have to look at like the years after
the Civil War war in the South, and like it
was this booming period for like formally enslaved Africans and
then of course you know with like new president, with
Andrew Johnson and with Jim Crow Laws like and everything else,
(37:13):
all of a sudden, like I think people forget, no,
there was this period where so much could have happened.
Or like we've studied of late this country has talked
about what how happened in Black Wall Street in Tulsa,
you know, like a thriving black community who was thriving
in spite of the fact that they were segregated. They
were taken out of the main economic system of this country,
(37:35):
and they did it themselves until white people saw it
and they destroyed it. Those histories are important because it
tells you a if given resources, black people of course
can thrive. Anybody can thrive given a fair chance. But
what happens whenever that fair chance was given, it's destroyed
because they don't like the success that reaps.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
They hate it. No, they don't like that we're doing this.
What's interesting about speaking with you? You're a comedian, right,
but when I speak to comedians, you know, when I
speak to you, I feel like I have a lot
to learn from you because you're hilarious. You know, I've
seen what you do, but like just talking to you,
it's like we're talking about the real shit here the comedy.
(38:17):
Do you feel like your comedy got stronger when your
will to confront these issues got stronger?
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I think so yeah. And I'm sure there are people
who saw me when I was nineteen or twenty who disagree,
because I think to some people I got less funny.
But to me, I feel like early when I was
like seventeen eighteen nineteen, and you don't have anything to
talk about anyway. A lot of this stuff was what
I knew would work, which was impressions of my parents
or whatever, Like I knew that would make people laugh.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
And quintessential, like if a comedy, if a crowd showed up.
It's almost like they would want to expect some things
like that from you.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Oh, absolutely, because there were no examples. Right, there's no
models at that point. There were no famous you know
South Asians and stand up, not a single one that
people could point to in two thousand, neteen ninety nine,
you know what I mean. So that's what I knew
would work. And then as I started to get more
critical posts nine to eleven saw Paul Mooney perform in Washington, DC,
(39:11):
Like that single performance was one of the biggest life
changing things. Oh, I can you don't need to make
everybody laugh, and that your story is unique, and also
it starts I think initially, I think I did get
less funny because I didn't understand how to integrate things
I learned in a comedic form. You're so upset and
excited about talking about certain things, you don't think about
(39:31):
the fact that, like, yeah, there's no joke here, it's ineffective,
Like it's a joke that gives that's the carrot if
to lure people in. And so I think now I'm
at a place where I don't think about the potential
positive impact it makes. I do think about negative impact.
I want to minimize damage.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I want to in what commune negative impact?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Man, I don't want to hurt marginalized communities. I don't
want to hurt people that are already struggling. I don't
want to, you know. I want to make people question
who has power and why and think about history, and
not because I want to educate them. It's because I
find that interesting. Instead of trying to make art to
move people, I'm like, let me just make art that
moves me that I find interesting. Let me make sure
(40:13):
I nourish myself with knowledge and am surrounded by people
who are nourishing me with interesting conversations and with their
like what they've learned, because that's gonna fill me with
thoughts that will make for better art. And so like
when people say where does your material come from? It's
less like I'm actively looking for It's more like being
in situations that forced me to think. There's thoughts and
(40:36):
subject matter I never would have thought of entering. But
this conversation woke me up, and I think that's what
it's really about. As long as I'm honest with who
I am and what I believe, you know, as much
as sometimes I'm like, how come this didn't work out?
How come I'm not bigger in this way? I wish
it at a certain point, It's like, but then I'd
be a different person.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this. All right,
all right, let's just jump back in.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
From the moment of the Belgian chocolate joke of getting
really familiar with your work, I could feel there was
something different, for sure. It's not just really funny. There's
a meaning behind it, and a meaning that I also
like to dig into.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
You.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I'm a baker. I bake bread. That's kind of like
the canvas for the message in a way. But it's
easy to get trapped in, like, oh, man, like why
don't I have a viral TikTok video? Why why don't
I have a million thousand followers? Why why can't I
get a line out there? Well, I can't get a
line out the door.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
People like what I make, but.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Without the true inquisitive nature of who we are, Like
I actually want to learn more about colonization. Colonizers when
you really, oh, sugar like destroyed all of this part
of Brazil, Oh, like, it becomes bigger than the baking.
You know, and when you when you start to convey
that to your listeners the people that view your work,
(42:13):
and they get it immediately, which we did for sure.
Like I just you know, I just want to give
you a little round of applause for that, because I
really truly can feel that you're genuine about it and
that you you really are accomplishing it.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I appreciate that. I mean, I certainly I've definitely fallen
down those rabbit holes of like why not this or
how come that? And this didn't happen? And then I
also know, like the stuff I've made I haven't seen
anybody else make, and I'm proud of it and it's
unique and it's smart, and it's the kind of art
I want to make. And at the end of the day,
if you're doing that, like there's nothing to be embarrassed
(42:46):
about or feel down about it. So and it's really
beautiful to hear you talk about about baking, I mean,
I think, and it's the same thing like if you
weren't good at your skill, then the rest of it
doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yeah, yeah, there has.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
To be a little bit of a very good comedian.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
But you have to do that.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
What you do you've got a skill set to deliver
the message right. All right, So we don't have much
time left, but we have a few more things to cover.
Very simply, what's next for you? Tell our listeners, like,
you know, where can they find you? You got shows
coming up.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
I just released my new special, Vacation Baby, which is
free on YouTube, and it's about having a child during
the global pandemic. I'm really proud of it. And this
one's out for everyone to access without a streamer. You
can just see it. And I made a longer version
that's audio called Extended Vacation Baby that's on bancam and
(43:35):
that one requires money. But I'm also proud of it.
I think it's a really it has twenty minutes more jokes,
and there's some stuff that like you know what the
I don't know if this is a universal concept, the
concept of a bucket bath.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Like when you bathe yourself with.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
The bucket Yeah, yeah, yeah. The day of my taping,
I had to take a bucket bath because the hot
water wasn't working. Yeah, And so it was just something
funny about like this big moment and I'm going back
to the roots, like I'm like I said, like it's
like it feels like the ancestors are with me. I'm
bathing myself with a bucket and a smaller bucket, right
if I.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Never a bucket bat Like, let me tell you that.
You know, my mom will probably never hopefully not hear
this part. She gets so embarrassed. It's the truth. Like
they would cut her water because we couldn't pay the bills.
But before they did it, she like ran, they're gonna
cut the water, so we would fill up big jugs
of water in anticipation that necessary cut the water, and
then we would ration that junk.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
And who's taking a bait? This is the bath water?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, so yeah, bro, I haven't thought of that in
so long.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
The bucket bath is I mean, because I remember just
like it was real. It worked, except for your hair.
That was always the work. So you couldn't get the
shampoo conditioner.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Everyone was still always kind of musty, even though we
were like clean enough to like not get like a
disease or whatever, Like it's like a bacterial there's no
water pressure.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
So like it's funny in the US, like we did
bucket baths until we were like eight, nine, ten, until
I realized, oh so that's what a shower because we didn't,
we never used it. We use buckets because that's like
how my parents grew up with buckets. And so anyway,
there's a moment in the twenty minute longer version where
I get to talk about that. You know, I made
the longer one because I feel like that some jokes
(45:12):
might not hit everybody the same way. They're like, maybe
not as accessible, but I'm like for the people who
want to hear certain things that, like I edited out
of the special for a reason. My solution to gentrification
and bucket baths and things of that nature. That's that's
in the longer version.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Oh well, to the listeners out there, make sure y'all
peep that we have a couple more things to do here.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
We remember when I told you that mango talk was
not done.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
There's more.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
There's more mango talk.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So we we play the flaky game with our guests.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
No pressure.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
But I'm gonna ask you some questions about mangos. Do it,
and we're gonna see how deep down the mango hole
you've gone. Four questions here?
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Are you ready? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Okay, there were a mangoes first grown about five thousand
years ago.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
India.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Correct, that was I have I have multiple choice here
A was Belgium was Belgium, C was India was Belgium.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
I wish i'd let you say it.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
I actually prefer that you were. You were so focused,
you were like, don't even play women? Yes, India, of course.
The origin of mangoes. Where is the oldest mango tree?
Thought to be located West Kandish, East Kandish, Jackson Heights
or Canada.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I feeling it's one of the condishes, so I let's
say West Kondish.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Apparently East. I feel like I shouldn't have That was
too tricky.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
That was that was messed up.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
That humility is important and values, so do not worry
about it.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That was so mean, Brian. Two more questions here? In
what phase does a mango can pain more vitamin C
when it's ripe or when it's green.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
This is a little technical.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
I mean it's so delicious it's hard to imagine that
it's healthy, so it must be before it ripens.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
When a mango's green, it has more vitamin C. When
it's ripe has more vitamin A.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
This is mango talk, baby.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Yes, man, I will use this as the pilot that
podcast exist.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
It really will last one here, which mango is the
only varietal in the world that is sweet when it
is green?
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Is it the Belgian mango?
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Is it ti green mango, Portuguese mango or Dominican mango?
I green mango baby. We are concluding today's mango talk.
Very well done. And you mentioned to us that the
Innocence Project is something that's important to you. Yes, why
is this in particular important to you? And what are
(47:58):
some ways that we can contribute, help, volunteer, etc.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
I'm lucky enough to be an ambassador for the Innocence
Project and it's a privilege that they asked me to
do that to me, Like, there's so many things wrong
with our justice system, and we're talking about huge institutional
changes in order for that to be fixed. And that's
so big. But what the Innocence Project does by introducing
(48:23):
DNA evidence, having lawyers go into old cases, especially for
prisoners that are you know, life sentences or on death row,
you're finding that people one didn't do it, there is
no DNA evidence, and they were railroaded by the system.
You find out, you know that they were all sorts
of issues and the trial and evidence being withheld like
(48:44):
these are lawyers doing the research that should have been done.
If we're going to throw somebody in prison for the
rest of their lives or kill them, you need to
take the greatest degree of care as opposed to let's
get this done with. I want my conviction rate up.
And the Innocence Project it doesn't fix the larger systemic
things in each case, but the introduction of doubt that
(49:09):
there are people who are innocent or were not given
a fair trial, which I think is the more important part,
Like the idea of the system doesn't work. That opens
up the possibilities for others to say, hey, we probably
need to change this. We probably have to make sure
certain standards are met before we decide that a person's
life is no longer allowed to thrive in the public
(49:32):
or to exist.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
So I love the Innocence Project, and I feel like
there's so many times that you feel hopeless. The Innocent
Project gives me hope you've actually saved people's lives, or
you find out like, wow, there are so many people
that have no interest in protecting poor people, and you know,
people of color, zero interests, zero interest and so you
(49:57):
actually are like trying to to make good on the
promise of justice and the promise of a fair trial
and innocent till proven guilty. They give me hope.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
You were portraying to me that although you have success
and you've got the you know, great platform, and life
is bigger than just you and you're it seems like
you're just always on the lookout of how can you
make a difference in the lives of people who aren't
getting taken care of? And I think that's very inspirational.
I'm sure our listeners are going to be inspired by this.
(50:33):
I think it's Innocentsproject dot org. Donate, donate, volunteer.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Is there volunteer opportunities or much if there's volunteer, But
money is always important, especially like you're talking about lawyers
that are donating a lot of time and energy and
the number of cases that they never get through just
because there's so many people who are you know, sending
(50:57):
in their stories and it requires so much work to
do background to see if this is a case they
can actually do something With more people you hire, that's
that's more cases, that's more people that have a chance
of actually seeing justice and so yeah. I mean, I
think money is huge.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Let's go get it. Howry did I do better?
Speaker 3 (51:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
You got it.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
May thank you so much for coming on today to
appreciate it. This was an absolute gem of a conversation. Man.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
It's really nice when you make a friend while on air.
I know, it's like a beautiful thing, Like they're like, oh,
this is the beginning of a friendship? Is the beginning.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
It's easily the beginning, Like we're you're coming over for
dinner and ship.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Like, dude, I would love bring bring the family.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
All right, y'all, thanks so much for listening. This conversation
was so phenomenal. I truly just made a really great friend.
I hope y'all enjoyed it. And you can find the
recipe for the double chocolate cookies and the rice crispies
on shannaland dot com. I know what you're thinking. I mean,
it's just cookies, rice crispies. Brian Like, come on, like,
is it really innovative? Just check out my recipes. You
(52:02):
know what I'm saying. I know you need those sweet
treats to keep around your kitchen. I know you creeping
at night when you're hungry with a glass of milk.
So I want to know how it goes, y'all tag me.
I'm at Artists and Brian and Tag Hoddy at Huddy
Gondolu post a photo. Tell me how you did post
your videos?
Speaker 2 (52:19):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Let's see to ouy guy, pull of parts. Don't forget
to check out Innocence Project. At innocenceproject dot org. You
can find my handle and all the links I just
mentioned in the show notes for this episode.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
If you like Flaky Biscuit.
Speaker 4 (52:35):
All right, if you like flaky layers and delicious morsels
of nostalgia, then you know what to do. Leave us
a beautiful rating, review, Share, subscribe, tell the whole world,
scream it from the rooftops.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Thank you so much for joining guys.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Flaky Biscuit is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja,
Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer
Bridget Kenna, and our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder,
with music by Crucial.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Recipes from Flaky.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Biscuit can be found each week on Shondaland dot com.
Subscribe to the Shondaland YouTube channel for more Flaky Biscuit content.
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
Speaker 1 (53:22):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Flaky Biscuit. You already know what
it is. Each episode, I'm cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia,
meals and recipes that have comforted and guided our guests
to success. I'm making a recipe from scratch. The recipe
(00:22):
lives on Shondaland dot com. I really want you, guys
to to make these recipes along with us. Tag us
when you're making it, we really want to see what
you come up with. Does your family have a version
of this? Has your parents or siblings ever made this
for you?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Do you know how to make it better than me? Probably?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I have someone extremely incredible and special in the kitchen
today has some very interesting thoughts on nostalgic food as well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think first time I've encountered it. We'll get into it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It's stand up comedian and writer is comedy cover subjects
such as inequity and equality, racial stereotypes. He was a
writer Totally Biased with Camile Bell, and the creator of
the twenty seventeen documentary film The Problem with Poo. The
New York Times calls him one of the most exciting
political comics and stand up today.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
You know you're right here nodding your head.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm like shoot to be fair.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
They wrote that in like twenty eighteen, So today was
a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Hey, today, tomorrow, yesterday. My friend also the co host
of the Netflix food competition show Snack Versus Chef and
former immigrant rights organizer in Seattle. So many, many, many,
many things that we'll get into. Please welcome mister Harry Condebald.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
It's Hurry, Condebolu, Harry Condibolu. Yeah, you got it.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I fucking sat here for an hour pronouncing your name,
and when the moment came, I fucked up.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It's okay, I know, it's I've learned that some sounds
are hard when you're not used to making that Haury,
it's like hurry, It's like Harry, It's like writing between
a sound that, like in South Indian language, is probably
a lot easier, right, Just it's subtle. But yeah, honey, Horry, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, I've you know, son of immigrants. But my name
is Brian Ford. You know, so I never run into
people actually always think I'm white, especially when they hear
me on the phone. Really like, oh yeah, mister Brian Ford,
Oh great, we'll see you tomorrow. I'll show up and
they'll be like, who the fuck are you. I'm like,
I'm bing for Sorry, does Brian Stephen Ford at that.
(02:25):
I want to start this episode off with something a
little bit different, actually, and I hope that you will
be excited about it. Today it's not actually the Flaky
Biscuit podcast. Today it's it's mangoes. Oh my god, Oh
my god, it's mango talk.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Oh man, you have no idea how badly I've wanted
to make Mango Talk. I I've pitched it to podcast networks.
They've all said no, none of them understand, like this
is an affordable luxury around the world. Or you can't
afford anything, you're broke, you can a mango and it's
the most delicious thing in the world.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Like this is beautiful. It really is.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And I wish I was able to find, you know,
the alphonse, the fancy harder to get mangoes. These are
Latin American mangoes. There's three different types. But I thought today,
you know what, I know, it's Flaky Biscuit, but why
not why not start off with mango talk? Like, I
like this right, you know, these knives and these paper towels.
We're not here to eat cookies. They're here for us
to cut up and eat some mango. To the listeners,
(03:29):
I've got a few different mangoes here.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Why don't you guide me through? Like what's your step one?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I mean, like, oh, dude, like there is no My
mom can cut this into like nice little triangles that
people can eat and like. And then then you have
the seed that obviously everybody wants the seed because it's
just like whatever flesh is left and juice and stuff.
I don't do it in any way that's reasonable. I
just cut a chunk off and I eat it. Let's
do it and it gets real messy. Oh, I just
(03:54):
try to avoid the seed.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You know. I love this neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
This is a Bangladeshi neighborhood, and pretty much all of
the corner stores.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Just have boxes of mangoes.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
So I just walked out there and I was like,
oh man, there's like a box of mango here, box
and mango's there.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You're already like halfway in we wanted. Yeah, that one
was a little harder.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
It's still not. Despite the fact that the US took
away the embargo against Indian mangos, they still don't have them.
You can get them for about a hundred bucks. You
could get maybe like six to eight and have them
shipped from India. But then it's like you have to
eat them immediately because they're already on the h oh.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
That is wild knowledge.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
After my special came out on Netflix, people sent me
a boxwom which was great. Yeah, but they sent to
my parents' house, so I never got a chance to eat.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Your parents gobbled them. So what are you tasting right now?
Like if this was mango talk, which it kind of is, like,
talk me through what's happening.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I mean, it's it's not as juicy as I would
prefer it. Certainly it's not a bad mango, but.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I think this is a Dominican mango. Yeah, there is
a Dominican mango here. That one.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It's hard to have a bad mango. I hate the
stringiness of mangos. I feel like that's often something that
you see in like Western mangoes, but particularly the this
is a Tommy Atkins mango. I'd read an article I
think in The Juggernaut, which is great South Asian American
magazine about like the history of mangoes, and they all
come from India and we're like brought to different parts
(05:22):
of the world from there. So when they were brought
to the US, most like the Alfonso mango plant, all
these great mango plants, the soil here just it wouldn't take.
So the ones that survived are these like really kind
of tough mangos. So you get really stringy mangos that
are all right, But like the stringiness I never like
because I've tasted like mangoes just there isn't stringing. This
(05:43):
is just juicy.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Interesting. So are you saying that's more specific to South Asia?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I don't think it's just South Asia, but I think
I don't think I've ever had a bad mango in
India before, and I've definitely had bad mangos here, and
a bad mango here is still better than an apple,
you know what I mean. It's better than a pair,
but it's you know, it's an inferior mango.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Damn apples and pears under the bus wick. I lived
in Miami for about five years and I was fortunate
enough to have mango trees in my neighbor's yard in
in my friend's yard where I lived. You know, I
don't remember the specific type. I mean there's like thousands
of mangoes, man, I mean you know there's literally, I know,
in Florida or the Caribbean, like there can be thousands
(06:26):
of types of mangoes. And absolutely they might not be
the world renowned mangos, but they're still there.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
I mean, there's so many factors of what makes a mango.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What does get into this big on what did you
say this one was called.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
At least corn Stickrett's or Tommy It means that the
Tommy Atkins it's water malin. Well, definitely. If it's too soft,
I imagine it's gonna be like like anything like like
a saw spot's number doing a great thing. Yeah, yeah,
I don't want it too green. You know you're looking
for that that sweet spot where there's maybe a little
green so it could last a day, but it's like reddish,
(06:56):
and you know, I want that inside to be soft.
I don't want to have to chew too much. It's
supposed to almost melt in your mouth. I'm looking for.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
It can be hard sometimes up here in New York
to find good avocado mango, even pineapples sometimes, but the
green ones. There was a tree in Miami I lived by.
I used to bike a lot Miami, so I would
like know where mango trees were to go and get
the mangoes that I liked.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
But there was a green one.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
They never, I swear, they never really ripened, so we
would eat them with salt. Really yeah, I like kind
of unripe green's.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I haven't explored that, but that's actually a really interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Learn it from a Nicaraguan friend. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I've always eaten mangoes as is. And for the first
time this is embarrassing to say I bought a mango
off the street, which I've done before, you know, the slices.
Oh absolutely, And I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna
do it the way like a lot of my Mexican
friends have told me to do it, which is with
the tahina mmmmmm. And I did not like it.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
No, it wasn't your cup of tea.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
No, no, it was not my chai as we would say.
You can edit that out later. I mean, look, it
just didn't like it was too much, like I couldn't
enjoy the mango and like it's delicious, it's incredible. It
just is a different It's not I wanted mango.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, you're a mango purist. You're very much in the
in the realm. I see I see it in your eyes.
I can see it in your maneuvers.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
You really I mean a few mango.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, eat a couple of mags.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I remember I had a really bad breakup, maybe twelve
years ago, and I remember one of the lowest moments
gets somehow still a pleasant memory. I bought a box
of mangoes. I was watching the Ken Burns documentary Baseball,
and I was eating mango after mango after mango, all
alone in that department. And it's sad and at the
(08:41):
same time, like those were the best mangos I'd had
in them.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I needed, you needed those I need?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
They were Yeah, they were, they were. They were a hug.
Those mangoes were like life when I needed it. And
plus nobody was around. It's just me. You could just
go to town on these mangos. Like there was no politeness,
there was no worrying about Oh no, my my shirt
it's covered in mango. Get another shirt, cover that one
in melbo. Yeah. Man, it was just honest, raw mango
(09:09):
eating just gluttony. It was straight up I'm going to
get every bit of flesh off these mangoes. And it
was a really good memory during a really bad time.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Well, I'm glad you were able to have that good memory,
and I appreciate you sharing it with me. So I
noticed you're not eating the skin of the mango.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I don't eat them. Do you eat the skin?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I do?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I had never done that.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I think it was my dad that ate mango skins.
But also like my dad, I was like, this must
just be something that he does. But there are some
people that eat mango skins. It's apparently nutritious.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
What you're watching right now, by the way, is me
being honest with you about how I eat mango.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I love this, and I should be doing the same
thing all everywhere.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Just get it all.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
So I love this.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I thought you were going to have some sort of
techniques of some certain you're just.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Run to waste time with that. You know how those
videos of people like they chop it up so they're
like little squares that you can take off and stuff
not interesting to oh.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Like making the little flour, it's like making the little design.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And I'm like Okay. First of all, the seed doesn't
really factor into eating it in this way. Secondly, the
time you're taking is time you could be eating the thing.
None of this makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I mean, I've stuck the mango seed or two, that's
for sure. So listen.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
This was a small preview to the listeners, producers, executives
out there. This is mango talk, baby, This is really good.
This is the real deal. This is like we're you know,
getting the fibers out, eating skin sucking seeds. Oh, we're
not done with the mangoes and we're definitely not done
with the history just yet, but we do need to
move into you letting our listeners know the other nostalgic
(10:44):
meal that I have prepared for you today. Tell us
a little bit about why when the first time you
had it, and what significance it has in your life.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I mean to me, like I think, I think it's
probably true with a lot of people. But when I
would come home and smell cookies as a kid, it
was the greatest thing in the world. I made cookies
and my mom at that point didn't work. She was
a doctor in India as she came to this country
and she spent the first nine ten years of my
life being a stay at home mom, and there was
something so incredibly there's a security in that come home
(11:15):
and my mom's there, and there are cookies there, and
I loved that. I loved eating the cookie dough when
she was making them. I loved eating cookies as my
snack when I got home. And the same thing with
rice Krispy Streets. And there's also something about the fact
that these are traditional American dishes. And my parents are
(11:35):
immigrants from southern India, and my mom was always big
on keeping your identity while still finding ways to be
part of a different culture. Sometimes it didn't always make
sense to me, like I'm gonna take you to Burger
King because Americans eat burgers, so you're you're gonna eat hamburgers,
which is weird because we're Hindu, We're not supposed to
eat beef, which I didn't know for a very long
(11:56):
time really because it was never told to me. Like
all the story raised, the religious STIs were there, but
like I didn't know that beef was not a thing.
And my mom's attitude towards it is like I know
a lot of Hindus that don't eat beef, and they're
not the best people. And so to me, if I
raise you eating beef and yet you're a good human being,
then I've done my job. And so my mom was
(12:18):
always very deliberate about that, but she believed, like, you know,
you're an American and so this is a thing Americans do,
and it's kind of funny that she saw fast food
as one of those quintessential American things, like this is
part of the assimilation or integration process. But you're gonna
have your birthday party of burger King. You're like, you
even eat hamburgers. And so I think something about that
(12:39):
my mom is making this thing that the other kids
also get at home meant something part of me looking
at it, was like, it's kind of sad not being
able to understand that the uniqueness of your home is
a good thing, but wanting to have what everyone else
is having, which you know, like the idea of Indian
snacks and Indian foods almost being scene is embarrassing because
(13:01):
the kids would make fun of me for having them,
but they wouldn't if it was a sandwich or cookies
or something else. And it was something that immediately made
me relatable.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Right it's almost like a defense mechanism too. It's like
a way to kind of protect your kid. Like, yeah,
you know in Hunteras we eat badiadas, which is uh
a tortilla with beans, cream and cheese. Now to the
average person, you're like, oh, so like a taco, like
a burrito, you know, and so going to school with that,
it's like, oh, how's your taco? And it's like when
you're a kid, you're like, how do I explain this?
I'm not I'm just gonna go cry.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I don't have time to explain this. They're making fun
of me.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Easier to bring a sandwich, right, Easier to bring the cookies,
Easier to bring the lunchible.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Oh man, lunchable. That helped.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
How american did you feel? We are American, but like
you know, at home, our parents were like it, take this,
take the lunchable because yeah, like that's gonna win you
over with with those kids.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
The lunchible.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Oh yeah, oh you got the name brand snack. You
got the thing that we see on TV. You have
to fruit roll up, you got a dunkaru like this
is somebody here?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, you already know I wanted to have those good snacks.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's so funny to think about how much of it is,
Like I don't want to feel weird. I don't want
to stand out.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Correct in this. We were kids kids.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
It's interesting now, Like there's nothing more I love talking
about than how afrohunder and I.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Am, how unique my individual experiences in the world.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, oh man. But as a kid, it's like it's scary.
It's like, oh no, I don't want to talk about this.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I just want I was totally like, yeah, call me Harry,
Like I went by Harry until I was in junior
high school, just because who wants to rock the boat
and if the teacher can't pronounce your name, And like
the first time I remember feeling that like I'm going
to establish my identity was in the sixth grade after
elementary school, where I told the teacher it's pronounced hurry
(14:45):
and I didn't get hurry back. Whatever I got was
an improvement, and I just remember thinking, like that feels
really good. And I think a lot of people do
that when they go to a new school. They try
to recreate their identity, and I did it in a
way where I'm like, I just don't want to keep
feeling like two different people in my name feels like that.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, wow, that's very interesting how just your name almost
gave you different identities.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I was able to hide behind my name.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I feel like like my name wasn't My dad wanted
to name me Julio Cesare, which was ridiculous, love you,
love you. But the way I was explained to it,
they had this conversation like, no, like, let's give him
like a white name, British slave trade, lots of black Hundurans.
Have you know Peter Rowland, Jerry, these kinds of names,
(15:29):
But they thought specifically for us to kind of just like,
let's keep it easy. Hungry for more flaky biscuit, stay tuned,
(15:50):
Welcome back to Flaky Biscuit. I think it's past time
to try the chocolatechip cookies and a right Christy, let me.
I want to know what you're seeing, smelling, tasting.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
My mom made like more traditional chocolate chip cookies. They
definitely didn't have chocolate in my oh. I love it though,
just like real melty inside.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I got some cookie dough as well. If you want
to take home, actually bake them or eat it or
whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Eat it on the train back. This is incredible.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So your mom made chocolate chip cookie is kind of
a more traditional base, not all the way chocolate.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
But hey, I took a stab.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
That's incredible cookie. Man.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I'm not gonna there are bad cookies out there. So
for the listeners, recipes, very simple ratios three two one.
I think it was a flour, butter, sugar, of course,
some vanilla eggs, beat it, added cocoa powder. I mean,
at the end of the day, I didn't even put
like sour dough or anything like that. It usually will
make a sour dough cookie, so it's a pretty traditional cookie.
(16:53):
I'll have the recipe up on Shondaland dot com for
y'all to try at home.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But I will say it is a It is a
beautiful cookie.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
It is just just chopped it all over the place.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
What did you think about the rice grisbee I.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Think they're incredibly well done, and it like you could
have sold these like there. Like it definitely brings me
back because it's a rice grisbees tree and so there's
just only so much variation if you're using certain set
of ingredients. But at the same time, it didn't because
it was too good. Not to insult my mom's But
like there were some bites that I would take and
(17:29):
I'm like this is crunchy, and I take other bites,
I'm like, oh, this is where all the marshmallow is.
It's uneven, not by a choice, it's just how it
ended up. The imperfection was part of the recipe. But
you can't recreate imperfection. That's I but.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That little those little moments are the ones that like
you're smiling, you know, it's kind of because that literally
brings you back to being She didn't.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
She didn't.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
She missed this whole half of the rice space tree
and they're still unmelted marshmallow. And but that's part of it,
like the fact that like she's not a professional acre
or a chef, and she's doing it with love and
the skills that she does have. And same thing with
the cookies. You know, like you made me cookies that
people would pay money to eat. You know, my mom's
(18:12):
cookies people would pay money if they were for a
bake sale to raise money for something. They're solid cookies,
but they're not gourmet, they're just solid mom cookies. You know.
It's the person time I really thought about like how
those kind of imperfections and things that aren't exactly like
the what you get in the store actually kind of
makes the thing.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah yeah, I love that so real quick to make
these rice crispies, like you already know, man, I mean
they got the recipe on a back of a box
that a rice Crispy Cereal.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
You know, a little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Of butter marshmallows. Once that gets creamy, you just fold
in the uh, the rice Crispy cereal. Just put it
on sheet pants, spread it into kind of a thin
layer and when it hardens up, cut it into squares.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And here we are.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So I feel like between the cookie, the rice crispies
and the mangoes, let our listeners are, was I really
able to kind of bring you back a little bit?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
You? Absolutely? Because how often do you think I'm eating
this combination of things like this is my childhood? Do
you know, like a lot of sugar?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Well, yes, some natural exactly being in a family of immigrants,
like you know, my dad used to like take empty
suitcases back to Honduras and get cheese and you bring
it back and like, I think that taste. You can't
really replace that taste with stuff that you can find
in the States sometimes, and I think some food memories
(19:38):
get they get stripped away or like you don't have
access to those.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
No, I think that's that's totally it. I think, like,
look at my friend Ali Buzari, who's one of the
judges on Snap Versus Chef. His father's from Iran, and
you know, he talks about cherries that his dad would
talk about her certain types of fruit where he hasn't
had these things in so long, and a lot of times,
eat something and immediately it reminds me of people I
(20:03):
was with at a certain time, or a memory I
haven't even thought about, and all of a sudden, I
remember where I was and who I was with, And
it almost feels like you lose that trigger, right, you
lose that thing that brings back all those memories. So
it almost feels like you don't have access to certain
memories because you don't have the things that would give
you access to them, the keys to it, the source, yeah, exactly,
source material exactly. And so there's something really sad about
(20:26):
that loss.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I mean, you know, we do the best we can
here to mitigate those circumstances, but at the end of
the day, without the source material, it's hard to really
it's hard to really invoke that feeling. And as you
as you continue to eat these cookies, I know they're good.
So where do you think this chocolate's from that I
used to make these cookies?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
The chocolate or the cacao beans, That's.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
What I'm hinting out.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Let's just say, let's just say the chocolate, like the
package that I opened. Yeah, what do you think it's
said on that package?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Spititualan or Belgium.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yes, we're here. We've made it to the part of
the conversation that we've been waiting to get to. This
is Belgian chocolate. And I thought this was hilarious because
we were I was just watching your bits last night
and I was just dying to the listeners who aren't familiar,
we're talking about the origin of like what does Belgian
chocolate even mean? I know this is something you incorporate
(21:26):
into your work, but I'd love for you to kind
of just explain that phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I think it's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Because the sugar, there's no sugar in Belgium that's being
shipped from impossibly Latin America and African country or and
cacao beans are certainly not grown in Belgium, so that's
also coming from other countries as well. So at what
point do we give Belgian's credit?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Right?
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Is it the stirring? Is it putting it in the oven? Like,
at what point is it yours? Because it sounds like
everything that we love about it is from other places.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, the raw materials used. You know, if you think
about things like vanilla, if you think about things like
you know, Kyle Beat chocolate and sugar and all this
kind of thing, where is it being made right in
Latin America and Africa? This conversation can go two ways.
We can just start laughing or we can get real real,
We can do a combination of both. But if you
think about Latin America, like, it was designed to be exploited. Yeah,
(22:17):
from the get go, it was designed to function the
way it's functioning right now, chaos. It was designed to
be stripped of its resources. It was designed to be
this way, and people seem to forget that when they're
enjoying their fine Belgian chocolates and Swiss confections and all this,
you know, the beauty of.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
It's a bit of a buzzkill.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, you know, the romanticism, the romanticization, romanticization, the
romanticization of the Western white culinary world is astonishing to me.
It's astonishing how deep we allow ourselves to go and
kind of believing this, Oh yeah, Belgian chocolate's the best,
and no one just stops for two seconds to think about,
(22:56):
like what does make it Belgium?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I never really thought about it that way until I
watch a bit last night We'll get out and this
is kind of my work. I think about colonization, and
but with chocolate, I was like, damn, he's right.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Go. I was like, where why is it Belgian?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I'll tell you what made me think of that? Like,
I saw this video on YouTube of I think it
was a Dutch reporter who goes to the Ivory Coast
and meets cacao farmers, like people who like grow this
stuff and then also who like have to go up
and pick them and all that, and it was interested.
They had no idea what they were for. They had
no idea what the coca was for. They thought it
(23:33):
was for some wine that Europeans liked, Like, they had
no concept. They'd never had chocolate before. And these are
people who like spend all day like picking this stuff
and it's a brutal job, and they have no idea
what it's for, the idea that this is for someone
else's luxury product. Right, And then they tried chocolate, and
the excitement and the shock and disbelief of you're making
(23:57):
this out of it because like, it doesn't it tastes
like what it tastes like until you add all the
other pieces, Like the kuan itself is doesn't. That's not
what it's like. And so something in a moment it
was kind of beautiful, like they finally get to taste
this thing, and the other part of me is like, man,
that's so messed up. The idea that the poor never enjoyed,
the spoils people building the iPhones, they're not using iPhones.
(24:22):
The people who are like getting the metal that's used
in the iPhones, they don't get access to the iPhone.
All the things that maybe we so many of us
take for granted in the quote unquote developed world comes
from the suffering of poor people in other countries who
have no access to this stuff. And there's something about
(24:42):
then thinking about like Belgian chocolate, Swiss chocolate, and something
that they pride themselves on and it's something people want.
If it said I recoast chocolate probably not going to
sell the same way. Different with coffee. For some reason,
it seemed very different, like they don't talk about the
roaster as much as talk about like what what country is?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, yes, yes, and no. I mean I've been kind
of there is a trendy element to coffee roasters right
now that I've noticed a beautiful Ethiopian roast is actually
a blend, you know, And they taught it's like how
much you really know about that Ethiopian roast though?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Right?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
You know? How much of it is it just smoking mirrors?
I did.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
This is just my humble opinion of kind of the
trend of coffee, because you know, when you're in Latin America,
it's coffee.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
It's it's good.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
You get good, delicious coffee. No one's running around parading.
It almost feels like it's a bit of a parade.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Well, it's also kind of imagining the places that it's
grown and that's part of what makes it exotic. This
is coming from Rwanda, yeah, this is coming from Sri Lanka.
Like it's just like, how did you get access to
this coffee, it makes it feel like it's hard to get.
And this is fascinating you guys from this place. I
mean with chocolate, like I don't I have no idea
where the ca caw meines ever come from, right, I know,
(25:53):
like what country mixed it together and sent it over?
But like the imagination that you create in people with
coffee is really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, exploring new cultures through coffee, through chocolate, through food
is great. But when it gets kind of exploited like Mescott,
you know you talked about the tacos made by a
white person or whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
It's right, there's there were people.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
In Wahaca when I was there, tech guys from Seattle,
and they were We're gonna take over the mescal game.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Oh I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, yeah they came.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
They came, We're gonna take over the messcal game.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
They said, out a dinner with us, And I was.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Like, what, you don't understand how that sounds? Like you're
a straight up colonizer, Like straight up like taking over
this industry that is from another country with another tradition.
That's like no concept of how that sounds and what
it is you are.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Doing yeah, gotta plants. You know, these plants take forty
years to grow. And the friend we were with who
was in the industry actually from Wahaka, He's like, so,
are you going to buy land and grow this for
forty years? Like or are you just gonna come and
like short someone.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
They should have asked them that, like you gonna buy somebody?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, And they like deflected, like, oh, well, you know,
we're just you know, we're talking from a strategic They
just had a whole bunch of language to do. At
the end of the day, they're looking to just go
buy some families plants that's already producing, put a fancy
label on it, and then breid it up here as
like this fine mescal and everyone's gonna drink it because.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's a new, cool thing to drink. That was one
of those moments I was.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Like, when it stops being asked cool, what are you
gonna do? Are you gonna are you gonna just sell
that off someone else?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Ye? Sell the George Clooney Now, no disrespect to George clue.
I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
It is kind of because you know, we talked about
like sometimes you eat something and whether it's from a
white person's restaurant. Be there's this dosa restaurant that I've
eaten food at, and I was very cynical because like
its own and run by white people. Then I'm like, yo,
this truffle dosa is incredible, and part of you is
like is it okay that I love this? Or even
(27:48):
thinking about some of my favorite dishes of all time,
Like there's this dish fool that's popular in Mediterranean Middle East,
and you know, through trade roots and stuff, it ended
up in Ethiopia and Eritrea. And there's a place called
Cafe Salam in Seattle, just a really small little restaurant,
and their fool is incredible. And the other restaurants I've
been to Ethiopian places and Richman places and Seattle always
(28:10):
mentioned Cafe Salam's fool, like that's the one we go
to too, because that's incredible. It's like one of my
top five favorite dishes of all time. And I was
thinking about the fact that, like the trade route that
got this to Ethiopia must have been treacherous, people dying
the kind of lost just like for these trade routes,
and I was thinking, they're eating it with bread, and
(28:31):
it was Italian bread originally, right, and that's because of
space in colonialism. And I'm like, so this bread that
is delicious is the result of that. And then I
think about the fact, well they're not using Italian bread,
they're using French bread in this particular restaurant from a
Cambodian bakery, which is the result of the French colonization
of Cambodia. And yet the meal is bomb like it's
(28:53):
so good and the number of people who died and
it's suffered for me to eat it, and yet it's
so good, Like what do you do?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
What do you do about that?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
How to be honest, I think it's a question that
can't really be answered because you know, my next books
about Latin American baking and at the end of the
day a Semita ana France, like all you know, the
wheat based breads, how did those come to be? It's like,
you know, there's like the fun version like oh, well,
you know, Christopher Columbus sailed over and they planted wheat
(29:25):
and everything, you know, and they started in orders of
reality where they brutalized and enslaved and murdered people forced
them to grow a certain crop ruined most of Brazil
and Cuba with sugarcane and all.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It just like when you.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Dive in, it's like, oh man, this guncha was great.
It's like the real source material of Latin American baking.
Like you were just saying, like, you know, Cambodian baking
even like bond mee bread.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And stuff like that like that. You know, how did
it really go down?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Like was a French colonist like so skilled at baking
that they were like, hey, check out this shaping technique.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
No, yeah, like made this or I'll kill you.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Make this roll kill you. You think they were giving
a bread workshop, all right, guys, everyone take your everyone
take your seat. You should have a mixing bowl. No,
it was like make this long for the king or
we'll kill you. Right, And that's terrifying to think about
when you're trying to enjoy a meal, right.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Right, And at the same time, you know, there's something
to be said about colonized people are they're forced to
use what's left over from the trauma, right, Like whether
it's like, okay, the British built railways in South Asia
and India, right, and they used it for exploitation. It
was easier to when you steal people's grains or valuables
(30:38):
to ship into different parts of the country with this
railway system. Yet the infrastructure is still being used by
Indians and is a very valuable thing in India. And
you know, the same thing is true. I think with food,
it's like these foods and these crops are the remnants
of this horrific period. They're gone, We're still left with it.
We're gonna make the best of it. Yeah, And that's
(31:00):
like the other way of seeing it. Like on one hand,
like yeah, I've thought about that too. Bond Me is
so popular, but like, why is that bread there? It's
very good.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I wanted to talk briefly or our listeners, you know,
might not know much about your story, like how did
you know how did you get into comedy?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Like how did food? You know? How did these cookies
play a role in that?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
You know, do you find comfort when you're on tour
eating a chocolate chip cookie every now and then?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Like I mean, I think there's a reason why some
of the best comedians of all time come from like
marginalized cultures, right, whether it's anti semitism or racism. Talking
about the results of slavery and Jim Crow like you
have to survive, and you know, laughter is this incredible
defense mechanism. It's a way to almost it feels like
it's a way to save yourself and heal and clearly
(31:46):
has an evolutionary advantage, because why on earth are we
still laughing? There must be something that gives us that
we that we need. And so, you know, as Indian
American kid who didn't see myself on TV, that didn't
hear my voice being heard ever, and getting to a
point where I started wondering, when are we going to
exist outside of the Simpsons. You know, it was, you know,
seeing Margaret chow do stand up on television when I
(32:09):
was like fourteen or fifteen. She's Korean American talking about
growing up in San Francisco, like a far different reality.
But the fact that like she was talking about it
and people were laughing and she had control was like hope.
It's like, oh, man, if she can do that, could
I do that? And so I started writing in high
school and I performed through college, and you know, I
(32:32):
moved to Seattle to be an immigrant rights organizer, which
very much like both my political and comedic path very
much a result of nine to eleven. I was nineteen
when it happened, or eighteen actually when it happened, about
to turn nineteen, and I became like this politicized person
who started to ask questions like, we're going to war,
Why are we going to war? How is this different
(32:53):
than Vietnam? Like it seems like repeating things? Or I
thought about the targeting of South Asians and the government targeting,
the deportations, attentions, the hate crimes, and then you start
to realize, this is what black people do with all
the time. I started asking bigger questions. I started taking
classes that added more fuel to it. I started reading
more things and surrounded myself with people who like really
(33:15):
educated me. And so I moved to Seattle to be
an immigrant rights organizer, and my comedy was starting to
reflect that kind of I'm up here, I better say something.
In addition to the fact that, like, it's not like
I wanted to really talk about anything else anyway, because
I was completely I am still very much obsessed with
why are things so unfair? Right? And the fact that
(33:36):
like we treat history like it's the distant pass and
as if we're not still currently living it. And shaping it. Clearly,
history is important, because why else in Florida are they
banning history? Are they preventing kids from learning so they
know the power of having control over the narrative and
of the story. And so that is terrifying.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I mean, there's a lot of terrifying things and to
unpack from what you just said, but just bringing that
up right there gives me chill, like bad chills, like
the bad.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Any regime that like is trying to control their people
always gets rid of history, erasing the past and creating
a new one where you can fall in line and
you don't question things and you don't question why things
are unfair, and it is devastating to me. And so
that stuff always seemed fascinating. What aren't they telling us?
And the books are missing a lot of stuff. The
(34:26):
idea that black history being marginalized to a month when
the country was built on like indigenous and black and
immigrant backs is immediately like, you.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Know, being older and reflecting upon what I learned in
social studies, Damn, they didn't teach shit. They didn't really
tell us anything. They just these little stories, these cute
little like I was saying earlier, it's like, oh, and
they came, you know, even the animations I've seen in
textbooks that kids have, and it'll be like Thomas Jefferson,
like with a shovel planning some some plants like that
(34:59):
man was not right people doing it for him, and
it just like our great founding fathers. Oh, so you know,
they're amazing.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
They're deities. They're treated like deities, as flawless beings who
created this incredible system. And when you start questioning their histories,
people get upset. And that's with you know, every figure,
like even you know, Gandhi, like has a lot of
stuff in his story that is not so pleasant, and
that's part of the story you can't ignore part of
the story. Doesn't mean what he did wasn't important, but
(35:29):
that's part of the story. I think a lot about
the fact that, like, we studied World War Two a
lot more than we ever studied slavery, at least in
my experience going to schools in New York, we studied
the Holocaust a lot. And after years I wondered, why
do we study the Holocaust so much but not slavery
so much? And part of it is because it didn't
happen here, Holocaust happened somewhere else. There are different bad guys, right,
(35:51):
We're not the bad guys in the story, the Germans.
It's the access powers. They're the bad guys. And dropping
the bomb in Japan was justified. There's no critic. Look
at where we are and the parallels to like killing
people destroying culture. We're talking about people from all over
Europe whose lives were taken, and you're talking about slavery
(36:11):
people from throughout the continent of Africa whose cultures and
lies also destroyed. That The parallels are incredible, Yet we
don't talk about it.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
The reason it's not talked about is because the descendants
of these slaves are here and the people in charge
don't like them.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
It's that simple.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
It's Look, you weren't slave for four hundred years, all right, Go,
I don't know, Go figure your life out. We're not
gonna we're not gonna like try to fix this. We're
not gonna we're not gonna influx your community with resources, money, textbooks,
and healthcare. We're gonna put other things in there, but
we're not gonna put those things in there that are
actually gonna help these families recuperate. From hundreds of years
of being enslave. No, we're not gonna do that, and
(36:48):
in fac we're not gonna talk about it no more.
Let's take it out of the text. But it's mind blowing.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
And whenever people say, like you've had this much time,
how come your communities haven't changed, it's like so ahistorical.
You just have to look at like the years after
the Civil War war in the South, and like it
was this booming period for like formally enslaved Africans and
then of course you know with like new president, with
Andrew Johnson and with Jim Crow Laws like and everything else,
(37:13):
all of a sudden, like I think people forget, no,
there was this period where so much could have happened.
Or like we've studied of late this country has talked
about what how happened in Black Wall Street in Tulsa,
you know, like a thriving black community who was thriving
in spite of the fact that they were segregated. They
were taken out of the main economic system of this country,
(37:35):
and they did it themselves until white people saw it
and they destroyed it. Those histories are important because it
tells you a if given resources, black people of course
can thrive. Anybody can thrive given a fair chance. But
what happens whenever that fair chance was given, it's destroyed
because they don't like the success that reaps.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
They hate it. No, they don't like that we're doing this.
What's interesting about speaking with you? You're a comedian, right,
but when I speak to comedians, you know, when I
speak to you, I feel like I have a lot
to learn from you because you're hilarious. You know, I've
seen what you do, but like just talking to you,
it's like we're talking about the real shit here the comedy.
(38:17):
Do you feel like your comedy got stronger when your
will to confront these issues got stronger?
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I think so yeah. And I'm sure there are people
who saw me when I was nineteen or twenty who disagree,
because I think to some people I got less funny.
But to me, I feel like early when I was
like seventeen eighteen nineteen, and you don't have anything to
talk about anyway. A lot of this stuff was what
I knew would work, which was impressions of my parents
or whatever, Like I knew that would make people laugh.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
And quintessential, like if a comedy, if a crowd showed up.
It's almost like they would want to expect some things
like that from you.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Oh, absolutely, because there were no examples. Right, there's no
models at that point. There were no famous you know
South Asians and stand up, not a single one that
people could point to in two thousand, neteen ninety nine,
you know what I mean. So that's what I knew
would work. And then as I started to get more
critical posts nine to eleven saw Paul Mooney perform in Washington, DC,
(39:11):
Like that single performance was one of the biggest life
changing things. Oh, I can you don't need to make
everybody laugh, and that your story is unique, and also
it starts I think initially, I think I did get
less funny because I didn't understand how to integrate things
I learned in a comedic form. You're so upset and
excited about talking about certain things, you don't think about
(39:31):
the fact that, like, yeah, there's no joke here, it's ineffective,
Like it's a joke that gives that's the carrot if
to lure people in. And so I think now I'm
at a place where I don't think about the potential
positive impact it makes. I do think about negative impact.
I want to minimize damage.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I want to in what commune negative impact?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Man, I don't want to hurt marginalized communities. I don't
want to hurt people that are already struggling. I don't
want to, you know. I want to make people question
who has power and why and think about history, and
not because I want to educate them. It's because I
find that interesting. Instead of trying to make art to
move people, I'm like, let me just make art that
moves me that I find interesting. Let me make sure
(40:13):
I nourish myself with knowledge and am surrounded by people
who are nourishing me with interesting conversations and with their
like what they've learned, because that's gonna fill me with
thoughts that will make for better art. And so like
when people say where does your material come from? It's
less like I'm actively looking for It's more like being
in situations that forced me to think. There's thoughts and
(40:36):
subject matter I never would have thought of entering. But
this conversation woke me up, and I think that's what
it's really about. As long as I'm honest with who
I am and what I believe, you know, as much
as sometimes I'm like, how come this didn't work out?
How come I'm not bigger in this way? I wish
it at a certain point, It's like, but then I'd
be a different person.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this. All right,
all right, let's just jump back in.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
From the moment of the Belgian chocolate joke of getting
really familiar with your work, I could feel there was
something different, for sure. It's not just really funny. There's
a meaning behind it, and a meaning that I also
like to dig into.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
You.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I'm a baker. I bake bread. That's kind of like
the canvas for the message in a way. But it's
easy to get trapped in, like, oh, man, like why
don't I have a viral TikTok video? Why why don't
I have a million thousand followers? Why why can't I
get a line out there? Well, I can't get a
line out the door.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
People like what I make, but.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Without the true inquisitive nature of who we are, Like
I actually want to learn more about colonization. Colonizers when
you really, oh, sugar like destroyed all of this part
of Brazil, Oh, like, it becomes bigger than the baking.
You know, and when you when you start to convey
that to your listeners the people that view your work,
(42:13):
and they get it immediately, which we did for sure.
Like I just you know, I just want to give
you a little round of applause for that, because I
really truly can feel that you're genuine about it and
that you you really are accomplishing it.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I appreciate that. I mean, I certainly I've definitely fallen
down those rabbit holes of like why not this or
how come that? And this didn't happen? And then I
also know, like the stuff I've made I haven't seen
anybody else make, and I'm proud of it and it's
unique and it's smart, and it's the kind of art
I want to make. And at the end of the day,
if you're doing that, like there's nothing to be embarrassed
(42:46):
about or feel down about it. So and it's really
beautiful to hear you talk about about baking, I mean,
I think, and it's the same thing like if you
weren't good at your skill, then the rest of it
doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yeah, yeah, there has.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
To be a little bit of a very good comedian.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
But you have to do that.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
What you do you've got a skill set to deliver
the message right. All right, So we don't have much
time left, but we have a few more things to cover.
Very simply, what's next for you? Tell our listeners, like,
you know, where can they find you? You got shows
coming up.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
I just released my new special, Vacation Baby, which is
free on YouTube, and it's about having a child during
the global pandemic. I'm really proud of it. And this
one's out for everyone to access without a streamer. You
can just see it. And I made a longer version
that's audio called Extended Vacation Baby that's on bancam and
(43:35):
that one requires money. But I'm also proud of it.
I think it's a really it has twenty minutes more jokes,
and there's some stuff that like you know what the
I don't know if this is a universal concept, the
concept of a bucket bath.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Like when you bathe yourself with.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
The bucket Yeah, yeah, yeah. The day of my taping,
I had to take a bucket bath because the hot
water wasn't working. Yeah, And so it was just something
funny about like this big moment and I'm going back
to the roots, like I'm like I said, like it's
like it feels like the ancestors are with me. I'm
bathing myself with a bucket and a smaller bucket, right
if I.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Never a bucket bat Like, let me tell you that.
You know, my mom will probably never hopefully not hear
this part. She gets so embarrassed. It's the truth. Like
they would cut her water because we couldn't pay the bills.
But before they did it, she like ran, they're gonna
cut the water, so we would fill up big jugs
of water in anticipation that necessary cut the water, and
then we would ration that junk.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
And who's taking a bait? This is the bath water?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, so yeah, bro, I haven't thought of that in
so long.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
The bucket bath is I mean, because I remember just
like it was real. It worked, except for your hair.
That was always the work. So you couldn't get the
shampoo conditioner.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Everyone was still always kind of musty, even though we
were like clean enough to like not get like a
disease or whatever, Like it's like a bacterial there's no
water pressure.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
So like it's funny in the US, like we did
bucket baths until we were like eight, nine, ten, until
I realized, oh so that's what a shower because we didn't,
we never used it. We use buckets because that's like
how my parents grew up with buckets. And so anyway,
there's a moment in the twenty minute longer version where
I get to talk about that. You know, I made
the longer one because I feel like that some jokes
(45:12):
might not hit everybody the same way. They're like, maybe
not as accessible, but I'm like for the people who
want to hear certain things that, like I edited out
of the special for a reason. My solution to gentrification
and bucket baths and things of that nature. That's that's
in the longer version.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Oh well, to the listeners out there, make sure y'all
peep that we have a couple more things to do here.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
We remember when I told you that mango talk was
not done.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
There's more.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
There's more mango talk.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So we we play the flaky game with our guests.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
No pressure.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
But I'm gonna ask you some questions about mangos. Do it,
and we're gonna see how deep down the mango hole
you've gone. Four questions here?
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Are you ready? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Okay, there were a mangoes first grown about five thousand
years ago.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
India.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Correct, that was I have I have multiple choice here
A was Belgium was Belgium, C was India was Belgium.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
I wish i'd let you say it.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
I actually prefer that you were. You were so focused,
you were like, don't even play women? Yes, India, of course.
The origin of mangoes. Where is the oldest mango tree?
Thought to be located West Kandish, East Kandish, Jackson Heights
or Canada.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I feeling it's one of the condishes, so I let's
say West Kondish.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Apparently East. I feel like I shouldn't have That was
too tricky.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
That was that was messed up.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
That humility is important and values, so do not worry
about it.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That was so mean, Brian. Two more questions here? In
what phase does a mango can pain more vitamin C
when it's ripe or when it's green.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
This is a little technical.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
I mean it's so delicious it's hard to imagine that
it's healthy, so it must be before it ripens.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
When a mango's green, it has more vitamin C. When
it's ripe has more vitamin A.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
This is mango talk, baby.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Yes, man, I will use this as the pilot that
podcast exist.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
It really will last one here, which mango is the
only varietal in the world that is sweet when it
is green?
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Is it the Belgian mango?
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Is it ti green mango, Portuguese mango or Dominican mango?
I green mango baby. We are concluding today's mango talk.
Very well done. And you mentioned to us that the
Innocence Project is something that's important to you. Yes, why
is this in particular important to you? And what are
(47:58):
some ways that we can contribute, help, volunteer, etc.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
I'm lucky enough to be an ambassador for the Innocence
Project and it's a privilege that they asked me to
do that to me, Like, there's so many things wrong
with our justice system, and we're talking about huge institutional
changes in order for that to be fixed. And that's
so big. But what the Innocence Project does by introducing
(48:23):
DNA evidence, having lawyers go into old cases, especially for
prisoners that are you know, life sentences or on death row,
you're finding that people one didn't do it, there is
no DNA evidence, and they were railroaded by the system.
You find out, you know that they were all sorts
of issues and the trial and evidence being withheld like
(48:44):
these are lawyers doing the research that should have been done.
If we're going to throw somebody in prison for the
rest of their lives or kill them, you need to
take the greatest degree of care as opposed to let's
get this done with. I want my conviction rate up.
And the Innocence Project it doesn't fix the larger systemic
things in each case, but the introduction of doubt that
(49:09):
there are people who are innocent or were not given
a fair trial, which I think is the more important part,
Like the idea of the system doesn't work. That opens
up the possibilities for others to say, hey, we probably
need to change this. We probably have to make sure
certain standards are met before we decide that a person's
life is no longer allowed to thrive in the public
(49:32):
or to exist.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
So I love the Innocence Project, and I feel like
there's so many times that you feel hopeless. The Innocent
Project gives me hope you've actually saved people's lives, or
you find out like, wow, there are so many people
that have no interest in protecting poor people, and you know,
people of color, zero interests, zero interest and so you
(49:57):
actually are like trying to to make good on the
promise of justice and the promise of a fair trial
and innocent till proven guilty. They give me hope.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
You were portraying to me that although you have success
and you've got the you know, great platform, and life
is bigger than just you and you're it seems like
you're just always on the lookout of how can you
make a difference in the lives of people who aren't
getting taken care of? And I think that's very inspirational.
I'm sure our listeners are going to be inspired by this.
(50:33):
I think it's Innocentsproject dot org. Donate, donate, volunteer.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Is there volunteer opportunities or much if there's volunteer, But
money is always important, especially like you're talking about lawyers
that are donating a lot of time and energy and
the number of cases that they never get through just
because there's so many people who are you know, sending
(50:57):
in their stories and it requires so much work to
do background to see if this is a case they
can actually do something With more people you hire, that's
that's more cases, that's more people that have a chance
of actually seeing justice and so yeah. I mean, I
think money is huge.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Let's go get it. Howry did I do better?
Speaker 3 (51:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
You got it.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
May thank you so much for coming on today to
appreciate it. This was an absolute gem of a conversation. Man.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
It's really nice when you make a friend while on air.
I know, it's like a beautiful thing, Like they're like, oh,
this is the beginning of a friendship? Is the beginning.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
It's easily the beginning, Like we're you're coming over for
dinner and ship.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Like, dude, I would love bring bring the family.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
All right, y'all, thanks so much for listening. This conversation
was so phenomenal. I truly just made a really great friend.
I hope y'all enjoyed it. And you can find the
recipe for the double chocolate cookies and the rice crispies
on shannaland dot com. I know what you're thinking. I mean,
it's just cookies, rice crispies. Brian Like, come on, like,
is it really innovative? Just check out my recipes. You
(52:02):
know what I'm saying. I know you need those sweet
treats to keep around your kitchen. I know you creeping
at night when you're hungry with a glass of milk.
So I want to know how it goes, y'all tag me.
I'm at Artists and Brian and Tag Hoddy at Huddy
Gondolu post a photo. Tell me how you did post
your videos?
Speaker 2 (52:19):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Let's see to ouy guy, pull of parts. Don't forget
to check out Innocence Project. At innocenceproject dot org. You
can find my handle and all the links I just
mentioned in the show notes for this episode.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
If you like Flaky Biscuit.
Speaker 4 (52:35):
All right, if you like flaky layers and delicious morsels
of nostalgia, then you know what to do. Leave us
a beautiful rating, review, Share, subscribe, tell the whole world,
scream it from the rooftops.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Thank you so much for joining guys.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Flaky Biscuit is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja,
Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer
Bridget Kenna, and our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder,
with music by Crucial.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Recipes from Flaky.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Biscuit can be found each week on Shondaland dot com.
Subscribe to the Shondaland YouTube channel for more Flaky Biscuit content.
Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
Speaker 1 (53:22):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
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