December 5, 2023 • 45 mins
Host Bryan Ford is joined by Chef Roshara Sanders, also known as Chef Ro. Deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan as a member of the 4th Engineer Battalion, Chef Ro started cooking professionally after she returned stateside and joined the 395th Combat Sustainment Support Battalion, where she cross trained as a food supply specialist. In 2016, NBC Black named Chef Roshara Sanders to their annual “28 Under 28” list, and in 2018 she was named to Forbes “30 Under 30.” In 2020, she became the first Black woman to be a chef instructor at the Culinary Institute of America in New York. She currently serves as a celebrity ambassador for Habitat for Humanity International.
Today’s meal takes Chef Ro back to holidays with her Puerto Rican step family.
Watch Bryan make his version and Subscribe: Youtube
Recipe from today's episode can be found at Shondaland.com
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Chef Ro IG: @chefro137
Bryan Ford IG: @artisanbryan
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Flakey Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Hi, Welcome to Flaky Biscuit. Each episode here
on Flakey Biscuit, we are cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia.
These are meals and recipes that have comforted and guided
our guests to success. And I'm so excited about what
(00:23):
I made today, mostly because I'm hungry. I'm Brian Ford,
cookbook author, TV show hosts, but most importantly, I love
the cook and bake for people. I have someone incredibly
special in my kitchen today, someone who has broken boundaries,
someone that is changing the course of history. She was
recently appointed an instructor at the Culinary Institute of America
(00:47):
the CIA, and she is the first black email chef
instructor in the school's history since it's founding in nineteen
forty six. This is groundbreaking, absolutely incredible feat. She's also
a Food Network Chopped champion, recognized as a Forbes thirty
(01:09):
Under thirty overachiever. In twenty eighteen, a James Beard Foundation
featured chef as well as a participant in the foundation
Chef's foot camps for policy and change. Wow. What a resume.
Who am I please welcome chef for Shara Sanders.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
A chef ro Thank you, Jeff Bryan. That was amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Listen, you're actually changing You've changed history, specifically in the
culinary field in this country, but just black history in
general American history. How that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I mean, I'm humble, you know, I'm very humble. And
like I said, you know, it's all God is not me.
It's all purposeful, and I'm just gonna start it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Listeners at home, she just locked eyes with me and said,
I'm just getting started. You gave me look camera. Yeah,
you gave me goose.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
You just get started.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
But before we jump into the stuff that's gonna make
us cry and proud. What are you doing in New York?
You're chilling.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm chilling. I'm hanging out. You know. New York is
I guess the second home to me. My mom's from Queens,
so to be in Queens and it's just nostalgic. This
whole day is nostalgia for me. I came to see
you show. You're brilliant, you're talented, and we're going to
talk about how you've impacted my life. So you know
I'm coming for you.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, all right, you can definitely spread the love, and
that's what the show is all about, nostalgia love. I
like how you said this day is nostalgic already. You know,
I live in Queens, man, I don't know what part
of what part of Queens, Jamaica.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Jamaica Avenue real, she's real, Quel.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I mean we're in soft Queens right now. Would you
say that we're in soft Queens?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, yeah, you know. And she's you know, I mean
nineteen fifty eight, so she's an og baby boomer. So
it was different back then.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Og Queens og Jamaica Queens. Talk to me about how
the food wasn't means back then?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Do you know anything from Connecticut?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So you don't, okay, yeah, so what are you eating Connecticut?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Everybody says that there are people of color in Connecticut.
Let's just say that first and foremost. We're out there.
It's everything Caribbean, Spanish, everything, we have everything. You know,
a lot of seafood. We're by the coast, so freshwater,
salt water, Long Island Sound, a lot of seafood Connecticut.
So we're overrated, well underrated, underrated, So we're overlooked.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Is what I'm trying to say, what city again is it?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I'm from Bridgeport.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Bridgeport.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
We just had two chefs, James being nominated for Northeast. Okay,
so we we we're here.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So it's going down.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
It's going down in Connecticut. It's going down.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Like they might like some good like situation.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I don't know about all that, but one thing at
a time. We're coming though. We do have good eats.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
We did all right, shout out Connecticut, shout out, shout
out that overlooked and underade Connecticut. But anyway, we are
not here to talk about Connecticut's food scene, as honestly
interested I am in learning more about it. We're here
to talk about a very special dish that you've enjoyed
for the holidays. Tell our listeners what the nostalgic dish
I made is for you?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, so you have made today my favorite of all time.
Of course, cornbread. We can't do anything holidays without corn bread.
Corn Bread first and foremost. Rice and gondulas and some
Bennie pork shoulder succulent, beautiful roasted cheat. You I don't know.
I hope you got that cheat. It all nice and crispy.
(04:30):
That's the most important thing when you're making some benny.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So we'll get to that. There There may or may
not have been some technical difficulties, yes, during the process. However,
I think from a flavor perspective, you should be pleased.
But yeah, well, so describe this dish to me. You know,
when is the first time you had it, when's the
first time you remember it? And when is the first
time you realize how special it was to you? Okay,
(04:54):
So if they're two differents.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I mean, it's no. I think it all happened at
the same time. A lot of people don't know this
about me. I am African, American and Caribbean, so my
father's Jamaican, but I don't know my father. So I
was raised by two women and my step mother is
Puerto Rican. She's raised me since I was one years old,
so I think maybe by the age of seven you
start to get memories. This is probably the first male
(05:16):
I can remember from my stepmother, her mother, which is
my grandma. I don't know my biological grandparents. My grandfather
World War two veterans, passed away. My grandmother never got
to meet her. So my stepmother's family has raised me
and taken me on so, I feel like I'm like
half black and perto Rican. To be honest, the first
holiday I can remember rice and gandulas, beni bastellez ottos,
(05:39):
anything that you can think of, Puerto Ricans making a kapukia,
anything that you can think of I was introduced to
as a child.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Wow, let me tell you something right now, you're speaking
my love language or that kind of food. I've been
to Puerto Rico. It was like a couple of weeks,
and I'm jealous that you were able to enjoy that
food since you were very young, because that's like, that's
very special food. I actually feel like Puerto Rican cuisine
is underrated globally.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Really, I think so, I think it's top five.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Describe to me the flavor profiles. Then, you know, so
the listeners out there who may have never had bernila
or arosples, I hope y'all have had corn bread. If
podcast and you've never had corn bread, turn off your radio,
go buy a box of Jiffy make it and eat
some corn bread. I'm not gonna judge you, I'm gonna
support you, but please go eat some corn bread.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Absolutely, But to my.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Initial question, describe these flavors that you're talking.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
About Puerto Rican cuisine to me, you know, I'm speaking
from my own perspective, is savory, A lot of freshness.
Like so my stepmother Maria, she used to make homemade
sofrito right, rakaito and cilantro or culantro right, which is
used all over the Caribbean, and garlic and onions and peppers,
and you know she would freeze that and we have
(06:56):
it all winter. A lot of savory things, spices, herbs.
I love rice rices all over the Caribbean as well
as African American. I feel like rice is a staple.
So gondulas is my favorite pigeon piece. Right. So you
can have kenney beans, you can have black eyed peas,
but for me, gondulas is a special texture. Like we're
talking about benit today. Just like I said, that's sucking important.
(07:18):
I don't even eat pork. But let me tell you.
I don't eat pork, but I'm telling you I me
im pork on Thanksgiving. I mean important. For Christmas, I
may import for three kings.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, and you're eating pork right now and import.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Right because it's holidays. This is the holidays, right.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I do want to backtrack a little bit. Some of
THO listeners probably don't know exactly what sofrito is. I
know that you mentioned some of the ingredients, but is
this something that you make often?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I do make sofriita.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, tell me quickly the process, like what's in sofriito,
what's the process of making and why is it so
important in Puerto Rican cuisine?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I think sofriito is the base of everything. It gives
you flavor to whatever your soups, your stews, your rice,
your if you make the beni, you can marinate it.
I guess it's a marinate if you could say, it's
kind of like jerk.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
If you're Jamaican, you know that jerk marinad or whatever
jerk spices is a wet based because you're gonna cook
the garlic, You're gonna cook the onions, You're gonna cook
the herbs. Even if it's tomato based, you're gonna cook
down the tomatoes and I puree it and then I
use it on everything. So if I'm making rice, I'm
gonna put the sofito in the pan first, I'm going
to parch the rice, and the I'm gonna add the
water so sofito not only gives flavor, it's going to
(08:21):
give coloring as well. So it's a base. It's a
marinade for everything.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Wow, I'm like damn. Now, I'm like, oh man, what
have I got myself into?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I have to did you make it? You bought it?
Buying it? It's good too.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I'm busy, man.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, No, I think you can buy soshi tho. Yeah,
which one tomato based or tomato bas okay? I like
the tomato based, depends on what you're making.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Light amounts of it. No, I just you have you
heavy guys. I think that's a flavor.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I need the flavor. I love onions, I love garlic,
I love tomato. And then you stew it down and
you cook it and you just pull out an extra
all of that.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You know. This it's a holiday meal, and I think
we really need to talk about every component of this dish.
I want to talk about that beranilla. It's typically shoulder picnic.
You know, some people will use different parts of the
pork to try to kind of replicate. Talk to me
about what you consider to be the perfect beranilla. What
(09:23):
when it goes into your mouth happens? What do you taste.
What are the textures you mentioned that crispy top, which
you may or may not be getting to do. But
if you're not familiar with what beranilla is and how
it's cooked in Puerto Rico, I want you to pay
attention to what Chef Roe is about to say.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Right. So for me, Bene pork and general coming to
the Americas and the Caribbean is talking about history, yep, right,
because we know pigs were brought over by the Spaniards,
so when we talk about colonization, we really get into
the history of Puerto Rico. So that's what I look
at when I see the pig and that succulent, that juiciness,
that slow roast. My stepmother Maria, I mean, she got
(09:58):
a cook up, a need for minimum minimum at least
five hours. That's a long time in the oven. So
that meal is cooked with love. I feel like me,
especially I'm a young chef and I got things to do.
I'd be Russian food and sometimes it tastes like crap,
right because I'm Russian. I'm going I gotta go right,
But something like that that takes five hours, four hours,
six hours, depending on who you are, that's cooked with love,
(10:21):
because we're talking about the pork shoulder. If you know
anything about an animal, if an animal is walking right,
a lot of tension, a lot of muscle. This is
something that has to be slow cooked, either as a
braid or as a roast. We gotta break down that
connective tissue. We gotta break down that collagen, et cetera,
et cetera. So when you slow roast something, you're pulling
out all of the juices. You're making sure this is
super fatty and beautiful. Right, because it's pork, it is
(10:42):
fatty as well, So you know you're gonna trim off
some of that fat, but you really want the fat
cap because that's what turns into that cheat your own right.
I'm from Bridgepork, Connecticut. We consider that the hood of Connecticut.
So I remember going to the corner store grain pork rinds, right,
So all of that it reminds me of that. That's
that in the nostagia. So that crunchiness on the outside
(11:02):
and then that tender shoulder that's been cooked and roasted
for four to five hours.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
They go get a bag at each other on this quick.
We need it, you know what I'm talking about? That
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It's good that crunchy, that soft, that gelatinous. You know
I'm talking about You know you eat cels is gelatinous.
You got suck that bone, right. So I feel like
Berne has that same because under that cheat your own
you still get that fatty part. I eat it. I
ain't gonna hold you.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Eat it got you. I mean, like for once we
hit my heart good appointment.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Remember this is a holiday meal. We're not eating it
every so often. We're not eating it every week or
every every other day. You know, growing up in my household,
eating protein was a specialty. We're not eating in every meal.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Correct and call it Sunday food. My dad will make
a roast that might be the only time with eating
meal exactly. I'm kind of in all with how naturally
you're able to describe cooking processes the way you just
just I was just why are you so?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Because food is science and people don't understand that it
is spiritual. So you know, if you Brazilian condom blay,
you know voodoo and Haiti, you like, all of these
food is cooked around ceremonies too. Use a spiritual aspect
for me. Spirituality, though, I'm a Christian. Is like, while
somebody cooks something for me, and I feel that energy
in that food, that pig has sacrificed its life for me.
(12:26):
So it's spiritual, right, and it's love okay, and it's nourishment.
So not only is it that, it's science. Because the
thing about this, you can buy a pork shoulder, or
you can buy a piece of steak, depending on what
cut it is. You can't just see anything. You might
have to braiz. It might there's certain cooking techniques that
you need to know before you just get anything. If
you get a chicken breast, or you're gonna see the
(12:48):
chicken breast, you're gonna braize, are you gonna ste it?
It just kind of just depends. You need to know
what the end result is so you can know the
cooking process. I pay attention to stuff like that. Like
for example, I've actually as a young chef, I had
duck legs and I seared them and it was like
chewing on a rubber shoe because because I don't understand
that that's where the toughness because ducks swim all day, right,
(13:09):
they're walking, so the legs are tough. You have to
braise them or you have to com fee them.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I wish I knew you when we were in France
last year because I remember when I got them duck legs.
I just like that.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
But you can't. But if you don't, you can't. You know,
you got to understand, like this technique is for this cut?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Wow? All right. What I love the most is how
you started with the history with the work you're doing.
Obviously we kind of dabble in the same things, but
I love when I talked to someone and you asked
them about a dish. You didn't start with the pork
and the tenderness and the cooke. Time you started with well,
you got to understand where pigs even how did they
get here because you know, like in Cuba, the original
(13:52):
Cuban sandwich was not with pork. It was a hard
tapioca starch based bread with vegetables. And when they brought
those pigs into the end till this area, they started
cooking it and putting it in the bread, and that's
how it evolved. So it's interesting. Obviously, you know, I
know you, and I knew that we would get down
a little bit, but I love that that's how you
lead because food, like whether it's chocolate or vanilla, pork, rice,
(14:19):
any of these staples. Like if you talk about vanilla,
you're really talking about or cinnamon, like you're talking about
colonists setting up monopolies right in indigenous lands, just like
stripping them of what they had and taking it for themselves.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Right, And if you want to honor these people, we
got to talk about the history of food.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I'm going to honor Puerto Rico. I gotta talk about
the history of or Jamaica or Cuba like you're saying,
or even African American, Like if were talking about rice,
we need to talk about Golagichi. We need to talk
about West Africa. We gotta talk about Cinabon, we gotta
talk about Nigeria. We can't just talk about rice.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It's the backbone of Yes, I mean, I agree with you.
Enslaved people were really the backbone of most, if not all,
cooking and baking traditions. I mean in Latin America when
it comes to baking, it's easy to attribute Europeans with oh,
like clearly this looks like a bag ad or this
(15:13):
looks like it you know, that looks like brios or whatever.
But people forget that it wasn't just Europeans that pulled up.
They brought a bunch of African people with them that
they had enslaved, and those were the people actually making
exactly food and.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
The bad So they were their original teachers.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
They were the original because they were the ones actually made.
It's like the restaurants here today. You go to Italian restaurant,
it's owned by some Italian guy, but it's us in
the kitchen cooking.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Exactly, especially the Hispanic culture. Listen, every restaurant I've ever
worked in one hundred percent Hispanics in the kitchen. You
got to learn some kitchen Spanish period. You have to,
because those are the people in the kitchen. So I
want to pay homage and I want to give respect
to those people because they taught me everything I know. Honestly.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Will be back after these messages from our sponsors. All right,
all right, let's just jump back in time, person to eat.
I think it's time for me to present to you
what I made, explain to you what I did to
(16:21):
make it. So I'm gonna take a moment. I'm gonna
step over a couple of plates. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I'm waiting on you. I I need another one, chef,
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
All right, So here's how this goes down.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
What do you want to start? This smells the aroma
is beautiful. Talk to me about the corn bread. It
looks super moist buttery.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Saying it looks super drag about like looks on. I
think that you got kind of dry. I put the
gravy from the Better Neil all over it just now.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Why because you feel like it's dry because I.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Baked it earlier and it's kind of it's not like
warm out of the oven, and I thought it might
be dry. So I just kind of drenched in some.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Soft Okay, you think it's gonna save you, let's see.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
No, I think I'm about to get shipped on.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, okay, all right, you know I love you though.
Look it ain't like my mom's, but.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
We do not serve cornbread Artist and Briana Bakery, No one,
no customers need to worry about it.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It's good. The flavor is good. It is a little dry.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Listen, the corn bread came out a little dry.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I talked to me about your recipe.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Well, first of all, the recipe lives on China dot com.
So we would definitely want to get our listeners over there, okay,
to try it out. I've made several different iterations of
corn bread, you know, just using cornflour, obviously getting some
of that butter going.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I know that, you know, corn flour not cornmeal cornmeal.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Like literally literally this blend that's right here on the table.
I think part of the issue is, like that's a
blend of three different types. Okay, like that's a blend
of three different types of corn flowers. You know what
I think honestly, the issue is that I think there's
masada in there too. I think there's an extimalized corn
in there which can affect texture, which can absorb a
(18:21):
little bit too much moisture, you know. So I think
that there was like a technicality and not necessarily my fault.
It was a technicality that I did not I was
not aware of. And the rice the not trying to
reinvent the wheel here, like you already know what it is.
I mean, I almost think bomb Okay, you know, before
(18:45):
I just tell me what you're tasting the rice is.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I do taste of sofrito. The rice is cooked really nicely,
is not overcooked, It's not mushy. It's not super dry
or super crunchy. It's not like you're making for me.
You know, I'm happy to make for me. But the
chicken and the rice is super crunchy because they've got
that caramelization at the bottom. So I don't like that.
It's called pick al. I think Dominicans call it that,
(19:11):
So that's not what you're looking for. And adols and gondola,
So this is good. I like this a lot though.
Benny is very good too.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
All right, sorry, I haven't eaten today, so I'm going
just like savage.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
He's being a savage, all y'all hear him?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Okay, And you need to tell me where where you're going?
Where's your mind going?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
The beni is really good. The beni is very very good.
It's very tender. It's very juicy. I see what you
mean when you say that is not crunchy. Talk to
me about that. I think it's perfect. It reminds me
of my stepmother's. It's very good. It's seasoned perfectly well.
With the chiatto.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
What happened with I feel like I'm in I'm in class.
I'm in class with you right now. I'll show you
what happened.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
With you need a broiler? What happened? Oh, so chef
cheated everybody he has So the inpot got is super
juicy but not crunchy exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
That's what people with time constraints do. They use pressure cookers.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
No, that was smart. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And as soon as you started talking about it, and
as soon as my memory was going, I was like, damn,
that did I did not even think about getting that
crunch right. You could do that, but you got to
finish it, finish it in the oven.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You got to finish it in the oven.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
All right. So the recipe on tinline dot com. Obviously
you know with the be neil you know this. We're
talking about slow roasted marinated pork shoulder or picnic garlic oregano.
You know what I'm saying, A nice combination to get that.
I did it the quick way. Maybe I cheated, maybe
I didn't, but our listeners are dying to No, Chef,
(20:51):
did I bring you back to your holiday table? And
if not, where did I bring you?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You did bring me back to the holiday table. I
feel it. I feel good, I'm happy, I'm laughing, I
feel positive. We have good vibes, get energy. So you
definitely want me back to the holiday table. I think
just a corn bread.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
That can't make corn bread.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's just a corn bread chef.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
That's it, you know. Honestly, I feel kind of.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Something will go wrong for the viewers something or the listeners.
Something will go wrong, and the kitschen it's never going
to be a perfect be like that.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
That's your show. Something will go wrong? Will you tell
listeners how to phys with all your knowledge?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
All right?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
So listen, You've had such an esteemed career already, and
you're quite young. How did the nostalgia of food, the
nostalgia of this meal in Puerto Rican cuisine, and your
upbringing get you from that holiday table to becoming an
iconic chef in you know, the culinary world right now?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I mean, I guess I just feel like food gave
me my purpose. Some of you may know my story,
but I serve six years in the United States Army.
I reck in Afghanistan combat veteran. So when I joined
the military, I knew when I got out I had
to be a chef. And I feel like growing up
in food and having my Puerto Rican grandmother and my
uncles and my aunts and Titi whoever, and Uncle Macho whoever.
(22:17):
And then I come from a black background. So my
mom's making CALLI greens and you know, she's doing her
fried chicken. I was like, damn, this is giving me
a purpose. It really gave me a way to get
out of the military and survive. So I feel like
the nostalgia of being raised in the kitchen, like my
mom was raising me by herself, and her first job
off of the streets. She was in the streets was
(22:38):
a soul food restaurant called Bird's Place in Bridgeport. I
was running around the kitchen at two years old just
see my mom cook. So it showed me away from
my mom to get off the streets. It was away
from my stepmother to help her mental health because she
struggles with depression. So the only time I really saw
her at her happiest moment, and that relationship and that
(22:58):
marriage that my mother and my mother had was over food.
So it got me out of the military, it got
my mom off the streets, and it helped my stepmother
with depression. So I owe food everything.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Wow, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, And it sounds
like mental health is really important to you. Is this
something in this industry that you advocate for and actively
work towards improving for yourself for others.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, I mean for me personally, Like I said, it is.
You know, when I got home from Afghanistan, I was
diagnosed with postraumunic stress disorder. So you know, you could
go to the VA. They're going to try to give
you pills and all this stuff like that. I'm like,
you know what, I find myself finding peace when I'm cooking,
So then let me do that. Wow, let me do that.
So mental health is real in the industry, you know, chef,
(23:43):
we come from a toxic industry, whether you're baking in
pastry or you're in the culinary side. We come from
that era of shut up, do what you're told, and
you know, be quiet and the yelling and the scream.
I've lived that in the kitchen. I've lived that in
the kitchen, and you know, I just go into my
happy place. I kind of work with my head down
and think about anything else. But don't burn nothing. Make
(24:03):
sure it tastes good, you know. So food is just
my escape. It's my escape.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I've actually worked with women veterans who suffer from sexual
salt in the military, and they found their way back
to their marriages, and they found their way back to
their children through food.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So teaching them culinary skills, they can bring it back
to the household. They can rebuild these relationships. So when
I saw that, I'm like, Okay, this is something that
is real. Food can help mental health. Anything can. If
you might like golf, you might go out play golf,
you might like basketball. We all have our things. But
for me, food is my peace, and honestly we're going
back to spirituality. Food is the way I see God
(24:40):
because I mean we talk about the DNA of a seed,
you got one hundred species of apples, you got all
of these things. It's like, Wow, God is real, God exists.
How can who made this? I didn't make it. It
wasn't me. It's such a big picture. So for me,
food is a way to defeat depression and mental health.
It's just one avenue.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, the most delicious oven it is. I mean, everyone
wants to eat, right, so why not, you know, become dedicated.
I have to say that I relate to a lot
of what you're saying. I suffer from anxiety, panic disorder,
stuff like that. Is a chef thing.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Don't how rich. It is a chef thing.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
The people think it doesn't have panic disorder, but no,
I've found many, many days of feeling at peace baking.
And you know, I used to be a cook on
the line in New Orleans late nights. Mm hmm, I
(25:41):
caught what I call gremlin activity. You know, it's New Orleans.
First of all, the cooking culture there is a little intense.
And when I started baking, I realized how much more
peaceful it could be to serve people food. I'm a
morning person. I activate fully, like when I wake up,
I'm ready to like accomplish. I'm like so ready for
(26:03):
my day to start, right, not really a night person.
So I'm waking up tomorrow at three to go do
this bake. It's quiet, no one, no one's around, no
one to bother you, no one's gonna text me. I
mean three in the morning, four in the morning. The
city is asleep. And I just I find so much
like p and solace in baking. Because of that. Now,
(26:25):
obviously the flip side tired. It's like, you know, it
is kind of a rigorous thing to get people their
bread in the morning. So I can relate to what
you're saying seeing food as a way to overcome mental
health struggles, because it's definitely been the vehicle that's propelled
my mind into better places. But then, you know, there's
(26:46):
the flip side, you know, the social media, the expectations.
Now there's expectations that expectations, expectations we talk to me
about that. I want to hear it.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I do what I want when I want. I do
not subscribe to posting every day. And because life is
too short, one day, you're gonna wake up. One day
you're not gonna wake up. So God woke me up today.
This is the day that God has given me. I'm
gonna do what I'll need to do to make me
feel good. And social media does not make you feel
good all the time, by the comparison, and this person
doing that, and what is it? What I use social
(27:19):
media for is inspiration. That's how I'm at you, you
know what I mean. I'm researching. I'm like, who's this
Afro latito over here doing these big things? And that
was inspired by you? Other than that, I don't because
it can sink you, It can really drown your mental health. Yeah,
so if we don't learn the balance, then it's a negative,
So fuck the expectation.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I don't know what kind of spiritual energy happened today,
but I really needed to hear that. It's a lot
to keep up with.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
It's tiring.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
It's insanely coincidental that you just said what you said,
because it is very difficult to maintain. You know, it's
something that I think I need to do.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
But listen, don't attach your success or don't attach your
worth to social media. If you don't post for the
next six months, you are still Brian Ford. You understand
what I'm saying. It doesn't matter. You still got on
your own bakery. People wake up in the morning, they
come see you, you start their day. Social Media is fake.
It doesn't it's not real. It's not rigila total this
shaking her head. It's you have no idea, this confirmation.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
It's not real. It's not it's not.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It's not attached to who you are. You think when
God created you, God created you like, oh, Brian's gonna
be on social media. No, you have a bigger purpose
because if social media crashed tomorrow, is your purpose is
your dead?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
No?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
No, it's bigger than social and.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Also intertwining all sometimes like business endeavors or income or whatever.
If it's too tightly tied into that, then it's like, yeah,
if it does crash, well, how I eat.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
You're gonna eat.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
You're gonna eat eat, You're gonna eat, definitely gonna eat.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I don't even look at it like that, because if
you do that, like, oh, I got a post, and
I got this brand, and I got that brand. Looking
at me, and I might get this show, and you're
gonna eat. If it's for you, it's for you, whether
you want so. I'm a social media person, per se, right,
I post when I need to put. I haven't posted
in three weeks. I'm going on a month, you know
what I'm saying. But I'm in negotiation to do things
with these media companies and I don't even post because
(29:11):
they love me. They love my spirits. You know what
I'm saying, Chef, that's real shit. Wow, that's yours. It's like,
I don't need to you know what I'm saying. I listen,
I'm wearing I'm wearing the Uncle Near's shirt. It says
I'm making black history. I made one post. One post.
The CEO of Uncle NER's Fun Weaver sent me a
whole care package with a letter. And that was one post.
(29:32):
I wasn't out there Uncle Near's Uncle nears. That was
one post that was a real, just one genuine post
because I'm just what I'm doing. I like the brand,
but she respects me. Social media is there is an avenue.
It's good for inspiration, it is good to market. It
has its pros, but it has its cons. But I want,
you know, young influencers to know, like listen, if you
(29:52):
take a break. You might need a break, you might
need a break, but you're still worthy because it's not
about social media. It's about what you do and for
people and their spirit and your spirit.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
I'm kind of speechless right now. That's wild. I feel
like it's something I think is difficult to navigate, but
I'm starting to realize it's not difficult because it's a choice.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
It's a choice.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
It's a choice to scroll, it's a choice to compare.
It's a choice to get consumed. A lot to talk
about again, you know, I can't wait to crack beers
with you another time. But there's obviously articles and this
and that that we can read about you, but you know,
your journey through the CIA, I think you said one
black instructor. He was a male in the culinaris department,
Like that was the only black instructor you've ever seen, right,
(30:39):
And that's wild. Yeah, So I want to hear a
little bit more about where you know, there's a clear
lack of representation and there's a clear need to change that. Right,
How were those first moments in there? How did you
feel talk to me?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I mean for me as an alumni, I had and
the colinary supers one black chef, and I think in
the Patriarch's department we had another black chef, two men.
I never saw a woman, especially women of color there.
So when I got the opportunity to get the job,
I applied and I said, what do I got to lose?
So when I got the job and the New York
Post announced I'm the first black woman, and it just
(31:17):
went kind of I don't want to say viral, but
it did make a spark. It was my legacy has
just activated. I've always had a legacy, but this is
like the first time in history, like you said, in
seventy six years. We're celebrating our seventy sixth anniversary this
fall at the CIA, and I'm honored, and I'm grateful
to be that first black woman because I'm coming with
(31:38):
a force. You know, I'm coming with a force, and
I didn't come to play. And a lot of my
students now have somebody who looks like them. Right, So
it starts with one, it starts with two, now with three.
And like I said, how I met you, I have
been developing the cuisines and cultures of Africa and its
diaspora in the America's concentration. So at the CIA, we
(31:59):
have the Japanese concentration, we have Barcelona, Spain, we have
I think Singapore might be a concentration. So these students
are able to immerse themselves in this culture and travel
abroad to these locations to really be developed in this cuisine.
So now we have the cuisines and cultures of Africans diaspora.
And I think the challenge for this course is when
(32:20):
you say diaspora is the journey of people. We're not
just going to Japan. We can go to South Carolina,
we go to New Orleans, we can go to Brazil,
we can go to Cuba, we can go to Nigeria,
we can go to et cetera, Congo wherever. Right now,
the class has been approved campus wide, all campuses, all
branch NAPA voted on is Singapore voted on the San
Antonio voted on at High Park has voted on it.
(32:42):
Because they all have to see the curriculum before we
usher something new in. I created it. I went to Yale,
I got a library card. I used it Leelle's Library
digital library. I was there for eight hours a day,
reading books, talking to people. You know, Doctor Harris was influential,
just kind of setting the groundwork, tell us you you
need to get this done. She's the mother of this shit,
(33:02):
you know, doctor Harris. She just got a lifetime achievement.
But we were there at the family reunion watching her
get honored. And you know, you got Alexander Small's there,
you got peertm was an influential. Madi Seta Pasia was
influential helping me and Kevin Mitchell, who's in South Carolina.
So I had great mentors. But when I say reading
the books and sitting there and my eyes hurting in
(33:24):
front of the computer, and you know, me developing every
recipe for this class me, you know that's why I
called you, because I found you when I was looking
up Honduras and Afro Panamanian and Belize, and I just
didn't really know where to go when I was talking
about Latin America and I stumbled across you in Isaac
villa Verde. Isaac's from Panama, and you guys really helped
me navigate this Afro Latino cuisine. So now we're at
(33:47):
the CIA, we're trying to say, finally, people of color
have a seat at the table. Yeah, because like you
just said, you talk about French cuisine, you talk about
all these European cuisines, but it's like, why do black
people not have a seat at the table. I'm here
to break those glass ceilings and make sure we have
a seat at the table is developed. But whether I
teach it or not, it could be another black woman,
that could be another black and I don't who cares
who teaches it. It just needs to be maybe, I
(34:11):
don't know. I mean, we had actually a pilot that
it was a white Jewish man. He's a mentor of mine,
great ally, but students were like, we want to see
somebody of color teaching his class. That's he's great, but
he's not black. How are you talking about African American
cuisine or Afro Caribbean or whatever you're talking about. But
you're not actually a person, you know what I'm saying.
(34:34):
If I'm French, you need to be teaching French cuisine.
I'm a black woman. Do you want me to teach
French or do you want to get somebody from friends?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I suppose that's like if you go to a school
or whatever, if you go to a college, you'll see
a black professor teaching things that white people. Did you know?
Or it's like, but this is our food, this is different.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Have you eaten it? That's what I'm saying. I mean,
if you're a white man, have you had goosey soup?
That's what I'm saying. But and has he made fufu?
And even as a black woman, I haven't even I'm
not even fully equipped to be honest. I'm from Connecticut
and I'm really real about that. I am the only
black woman teaching their colunter currently, so right now I'm
(35:16):
the only person that can really teach it. But I
want to bring more people on.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
That's fair. You're doing the role to get people in
the door of like, hey, listen, Like I'm black and
I want to teach this, but you want to bring
in people.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
There's more people authentic than me. There's so many.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
City of the teacher at the CIA is going to
be more important it is anything.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I mean, I'm black, yes, but I'm not African. I've
been Africa twice. Going Africa twice doesn't mean anything. You know,
you could spend your whole life like Nigeria. I could
teach his whole concentration in fifteen weeks just on Nigeria.
I'm black, and I'm honored to do it, and I've
written it, But I do feel like there's other candidates looks,
and we're hiring. That's what I'm trying to say. We
are hiring at the Colias with America. Brian Ford, if
(36:01):
please come back, let us know. We need Afro Caribbean,
Afro Latino, West African, North Africa doesn't matter. We need
that in the baking and pastry department too.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I'm coming. I can only imagine how white the bread
and pastry program is. It's probably the whitest thing at
the CIA.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
It is so we don't even they don't even know.
You will be teaching people that have been cooking and
baking for twenty something years. You're going to be teaching.
I'm teaching people about this cuisine that I've been teaching
since I've been born, right, and it.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Must be an interesting dynamic to feel that, right, Stay Flaky,
We'll be right back. Welcome back to Flaky Biscuit. Let
(36:56):
me tell y'all something right now, let's go. Chef is
the most confident, intelligent. The energy I'm feeling is just different.
Thank you. You're bringing a different energy to me. I
feel like I'm learning from you, and I am honored
that you're here, not the other way around. Thank you
(37:16):
for coming on, Flakey Biscuit. We are not done. There's
a couple more things to go over here at Flaky Biscuit.
We like to play a fun little trivia game. You know,
it's no pressure, you know what I'm saying. There's a
couple of questions. I canna ask you some questions, all right?
You ready?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
In which popular Jamaican dish is the plant or fruit
the main ingredient? I'm gonna give you some give you options.
Don't worry. It's not like if it was a blank
that would be so. Is it corn mill porridge? Is it?
I'm selfish?
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I was gonna say that before you answer, that's.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I'm not know you. You have exposed me, so I'm
not extremely familiar with this dish. Talk to me about it.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
It's I mean, you were talking about allow soft fish.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Icon, which was the way of preserving things and everything, and.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Aki is a Caribbean fruit and it's just sweet. It
gives you that sweetness and then that salty. I guess
with Mammy flavor profile you would. But it's I don't
know if it's Jamaica's national dish. Don't quote me, but
I think it is. Can we google that real quick?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Let's google Bridgie.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Can't google that? And I think you have to eat
aki in a certain season.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
It is.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I think you have to eat aki in a certain
season or a certain way because I think all of
it's not edible or there's something something's poisonous in it.
So there, it's not just the way it's probassing.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
You guys got that like cyanide.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
So yeah, it's Jamaica's national dish, and wow, I.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Feel like we should just end the game. We got
one that maybe you ain't gonna know because it's more
of like a weird fact what food holds the world
record for being the most stolen around the globe. And
(39:17):
there's no options. You just have to pick because you
which food.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Is the most stolen throughout the world the world? Which food?
Which food?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah? I think staples.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Mm hmm. That's a hard one. Well, can you tell
me is it?
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Is it a spice it? I'll give you three options.
Is it rice? Is it cheese? Or is it tomatoes.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I'm gonna go with cheese. You are right, you are
man cheese? Is lyfe cheese? I haven't, But if it's
parmesan reggiano, I might.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Speaking of geez here with chefro no surprise. And next question,
if you have magerio mageero co phobia.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
How you spell it m A g e I r
o c o okay phobia?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Magaro coo phobia? What are you afraid of? Is it ants?
Is it walking? Is it cooking?
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Or is it magnets mcghero coco.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Let's do this thing where it Google tells us how
to pronounce something madeiro caphobia?
Speaker 2 (40:53):
And now what is it again?
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Ants? Walking, cooking or are you afraid of magnets?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I don't know, I mean is it cooking? Because we're
on a cooking show. I'm like, are people scared to cook?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
That's a thing I suppose, but I think I got that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I might have it.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
You might have that. Yeah, but you just told me
to come up and you're cook for me.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, but I might be a little scared. You don't
get scared, ween cook for people.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
I didn't get scared to serve you dry corn. Back
the last part of Flakey Biscuit podcast. Talk to me
about the National Restaurant Association Education Foundation and what that
means to you and what's in the pipeline with regards
to it.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
So the NRAF is basically we all know the National
Restaurant Association. They're the not for profit sector of that.
So we just kind of go around and raise money
for scholarships because as an instructor, I see a lot
of my students drop out, especially my students of color,
drop out because they can't afford school. So you know,
hopefully I'm going to be working with them to have
my own scholarship and partnership with another brand or whatever,
(41:59):
just to give back to the community. And I think
I'll be able to build the criteria. If you're a woman,
if you're a person of color, if you're a veteran.
I don't know. I think I'll be able to work
with the NRAF to have some guidelines that we put
in place to give scholarships. Back Brian, we were at
the family reunion and destined right the kid who just
(42:20):
showed up. I've been in contact with him. So he's
somebody who is passionate about cooking but can't afford it.
So what do we do to help people get money
to go to these colorment Whether it's Johnson Wells, whether
it's Ice, It doesn't matter if school costs money. I
had to join the army just to go to school.
I had to use a GI bill. Nobody should have
to join the military to go get an education. So
they're close to my heart. I'm doing events with them,
(42:41):
I'm doing pop ups with them, all to sponsor and
raise money for education.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Wow, and how can we help? Is there a way
to volunteer as well?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
And there's always a way to volunteer, there's always a
way to donate. NRAF has a website and anything that
I'm doing or with other chefs, just pop up and eat.
If you buy a ticket, those proceeds go to somebody's education.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Amazing chef Ro. One of the biggest inspirations that I
have in the game right now is you, and I
really encourage all the listeners of Flaky Biscuit to follow Chefro,
not just on social media as we discuss, but in life,
pull up to the events, find ways to support and
help make these changes.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Thank you so much for coming to Thank you a pleasure.
Until next time.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
All right, thank y'all so much for tuning in today.
Find the recipe for the pernil and that cornbread on
Shondaland dot com. I want to know how it goes.
Make sure you tag me artists in Brian and of
course the magnificent chef ro at Chefro one two three,
post your photos let us know how you did. Remember,
Chefro is a real deal chef. Don't play around when
(43:55):
you make this recipe. Make sure your cornbread don't come
out dry like mindded it was an act. You can
support the National Restaurant Association Educational Foundation at Choose Restaurants
dot org. All of these handles and links that I've
mentioned are in the show notes for this episode. If
you like Flaky Biscuit, leave us at Shiny five star review.
(44:17):
You already know, make sure you subscribe, you like, you share,
Thank y'all for to support. Blakey Biscuit is executive produced
by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and
Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer is Bridget Kenna and our
editor and producer is Nicholas Harder, with music by Crucial.
Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be found each week on
(44:40):
Shondaland dot com. Subscribe to the Shondaland YouTube channel for
more Flaky Biscuit content. Flaky Biscuit is a production of
Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from
Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Flakey Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. Hi, Welcome to Flaky Biscuit. Each episode here
on Flakey Biscuit, we are cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia.
These are meals and recipes that have comforted and guided
our guests to success. And I'm so excited about what
(00:23):
I made today, mostly because I'm hungry. I'm Brian Ford,
cookbook author, TV show hosts, but most importantly, I love
the cook and bake for people. I have someone incredibly
special in my kitchen today, someone who has broken boundaries,
someone that is changing the course of history. She was
recently appointed an instructor at the Culinary Institute of America
(00:47):
the CIA, and she is the first black email chef
instructor in the school's history since it's founding in nineteen
forty six. This is groundbreaking, absolutely incredible feat. She's also
a Food Network Chopped champion, recognized as a Forbes thirty
(01:09):
Under thirty overachiever. In twenty eighteen, a James Beard Foundation
featured chef as well as a participant in the foundation
Chef's foot camps for policy and change. Wow. What a resume.
Who am I please welcome chef for Shara Sanders.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
A chef ro Thank you, Jeff Bryan. That was amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Listen, you're actually changing You've changed history, specifically in the
culinary field in this country, but just black history in
general American history. How that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I mean, I'm humble, you know, I'm very humble. And
like I said, you know, it's all God is not me.
It's all purposeful, and I'm just gonna start it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Listeners at home, she just locked eyes with me and said,
I'm just getting started. You gave me look camera. Yeah,
you gave me goose.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
You just get started.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
But before we jump into the stuff that's gonna make
us cry and proud. What are you doing in New York?
You're chilling.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm chilling. I'm hanging out. You know. New York is
I guess the second home to me. My mom's from Queens,
so to be in Queens and it's just nostalgic. This
whole day is nostalgia for me. I came to see
you show. You're brilliant, you're talented, and we're going to
talk about how you've impacted my life. So you know
I'm coming for you.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, all right, you can definitely spread the love, and
that's what the show is all about, nostalgia love. I
like how you said this day is nostalgic already. You know,
I live in Queens, man, I don't know what part
of what part of Queens, Jamaica.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Jamaica Avenue real, she's real, Quel.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I mean we're in soft Queens right now. Would you
say that we're in soft Queens?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, yeah, you know. And she's you know, I mean
nineteen fifty eight, so she's an og baby boomer. So
it was different back then.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Og Queens og Jamaica Queens. Talk to me about how
the food wasn't means back then?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Do you know anything from Connecticut?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So you don't, okay, yeah, so what are you eating Connecticut?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Everybody says that there are people of color in Connecticut.
Let's just say that first and foremost. We're out there.
It's everything Caribbean, Spanish, everything, we have everything. You know,
a lot of seafood. We're by the coast, so freshwater,
salt water, Long Island Sound, a lot of seafood Connecticut.
So we're overrated, well underrated, underrated, So we're overlooked.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Is what I'm trying to say, what city again is it?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I'm from Bridgeport.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Bridgeport.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
We just had two chefs, James being nominated for Northeast. Okay,
so we we we're here.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So it's going down.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
It's going down in Connecticut. It's going down.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Like they might like some good like situation.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I don't know about all that, but one thing at
a time. We're coming though. We do have good eats.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
We did all right, shout out Connecticut, shout out, shout
out that overlooked and underade Connecticut. But anyway, we are
not here to talk about Connecticut's food scene, as honestly
interested I am in learning more about it. We're here
to talk about a very special dish that you've enjoyed
for the holidays. Tell our listeners what the nostalgic dish
I made is for you?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, so you have made today my favorite of all time.
Of course, cornbread. We can't do anything holidays without corn bread.
Corn Bread first and foremost. Rice and gondulas and some
Bennie pork shoulder succulent, beautiful roasted cheat. You I don't know.
I hope you got that cheat. It all nice and crispy.
(04:30):
That's the most important thing when you're making some benny.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So we'll get to that. There There may or may
not have been some technical difficulties, yes, during the process. However,
I think from a flavor perspective, you should be pleased.
But yeah, well, so describe this dish to me. You know,
when is the first time you had it, when's the
first time you remember it? And when is the first
time you realize how special it was to you? Okay,
(04:54):
So if they're two differents.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I mean, it's no. I think it all happened at
the same time. A lot of people don't know this
about me. I am African, American and Caribbean, so my
father's Jamaican, but I don't know my father. So I
was raised by two women and my step mother is
Puerto Rican. She's raised me since I was one years old,
so I think maybe by the age of seven you
start to get memories. This is probably the first male
(05:16):
I can remember from my stepmother, her mother, which is
my grandma. I don't know my biological grandparents. My grandfather
World War two veterans, passed away. My grandmother never got
to meet her. So my stepmother's family has raised me
and taken me on so, I feel like I'm like
half black and perto Rican. To be honest, the first
holiday I can remember rice and gandulas, beni bastellez ottos,
(05:39):
anything that you can think of, Puerto Ricans making a kapukia,
anything that you can think of I was introduced to
as a child.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Wow, let me tell you something right now, you're speaking
my love language or that kind of food. I've been
to Puerto Rico. It was like a couple of weeks,
and I'm jealous that you were able to enjoy that
food since you were very young, because that's like, that's
very special food. I actually feel like Puerto Rican cuisine
is underrated globally.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Really, I think so, I think it's top five.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Describe to me the flavor profiles. Then, you know, so
the listeners out there who may have never had bernila
or arosples, I hope y'all have had corn bread. If
podcast and you've never had corn bread, turn off your radio,
go buy a box of Jiffy make it and eat
some corn bread. I'm not gonna judge you, I'm gonna
support you, but please go eat some corn bread.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Absolutely, But to my.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Initial question, describe these flavors that you're talking.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
About Puerto Rican cuisine to me, you know, I'm speaking
from my own perspective, is savory, A lot of freshness.
Like so my stepmother Maria, she used to make homemade
sofrito right, rakaito and cilantro or culantro right, which is
used all over the Caribbean, and garlic and onions and peppers,
and you know she would freeze that and we have
(06:56):
it all winter. A lot of savory things, spices, herbs.
I love rice rices all over the Caribbean as well
as African American. I feel like rice is a staple.
So gondulas is my favorite pigeon piece. Right. So you
can have kenney beans, you can have black eyed peas,
but for me, gondulas is a special texture. Like we're
talking about benit today. Just like I said, that's sucking important.
(07:18):
I don't even eat pork. But let me tell you.
I don't eat pork, but I'm telling you I me
im pork on Thanksgiving. I mean important. For Christmas, I
may import for three kings.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, and you're eating pork right now and import.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Right because it's holidays. This is the holidays, right.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I do want to backtrack a little bit. Some of
THO listeners probably don't know exactly what sofrito is. I
know that you mentioned some of the ingredients, but is
this something that you make often?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I do make sofriita.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, tell me quickly the process, like what's in sofriito,
what's the process of making and why is it so
important in Puerto Rican cuisine?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I think sofriito is the base of everything. It gives
you flavor to whatever your soups, your stews, your rice,
your if you make the beni, you can marinate it.
I guess it's a marinate if you could say, it's
kind of like jerk.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
If you're Jamaican, you know that jerk marinad or whatever
jerk spices is a wet based because you're gonna cook
the garlic, You're gonna cook the onions, You're gonna cook
the herbs. Even if it's tomato based, you're gonna cook
down the tomatoes and I puree it and then I
use it on everything. So if I'm making rice, I'm
gonna put the sofito in the pan first, I'm going
to parch the rice, and the I'm gonna add the
water so sofito not only gives flavor, it's going to
(08:21):
give coloring as well. So it's a base. It's a
marinade for everything.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Wow, I'm like damn. Now, I'm like, oh man, what
have I got myself into?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I have to did you make it? You bought it?
Buying it? It's good too.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I'm busy, man.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, No, I think you can buy soshi tho. Yeah,
which one tomato based or tomato bas okay? I like
the tomato based, depends on what you're making.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Light amounts of it. No, I just you have you
heavy guys. I think that's a flavor.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I need the flavor. I love onions, I love garlic,
I love tomato. And then you stew it down and
you cook it and you just pull out an extra
all of that.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You know. This it's a holiday meal, and I think
we really need to talk about every component of this dish.
I want to talk about that beranilla. It's typically shoulder picnic.
You know, some people will use different parts of the
pork to try to kind of replicate. Talk to me
about what you consider to be the perfect beranilla. What
(09:23):
when it goes into your mouth happens? What do you taste.
What are the textures you mentioned that crispy top, which
you may or may not be getting to do. But
if you're not familiar with what beranilla is and how
it's cooked in Puerto Rico, I want you to pay
attention to what Chef Roe is about to say.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Right. So for me, Bene pork and general coming to
the Americas and the Caribbean is talking about history, yep, right,
because we know pigs were brought over by the Spaniards,
so when we talk about colonization, we really get into
the history of Puerto Rico. So that's what I look
at when I see the pig and that succulent, that juiciness,
that slow roast. My stepmother Maria, I mean, she got
(09:58):
a cook up, a need for minimum minimum at least
five hours. That's a long time in the oven. So
that meal is cooked with love. I feel like me,
especially I'm a young chef and I got things to do.
I'd be Russian food and sometimes it tastes like crap,
right because I'm Russian. I'm going I gotta go right,
But something like that that takes five hours, four hours,
six hours, depending on who you are, that's cooked with love,
(10:21):
because we're talking about the pork shoulder. If you know
anything about an animal, if an animal is walking right,
a lot of tension, a lot of muscle. This is
something that has to be slow cooked, either as a
braid or as a roast. We gotta break down that
connective tissue. We gotta break down that collagen, et cetera,
et cetera. So when you slow roast something, you're pulling
out all of the juices. You're making sure this is
super fatty and beautiful. Right, because it's pork, it is
(10:42):
fatty as well, So you know you're gonna trim off
some of that fat, but you really want the fat
cap because that's what turns into that cheat your own right.
I'm from Bridgepork, Connecticut. We consider that the hood of Connecticut.
So I remember going to the corner store grain pork rinds, right,
So all of that it reminds me of that. That's
that in the nostagia. So that crunchiness on the outside
(11:02):
and then that tender shoulder that's been cooked and roasted
for four to five hours.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
They go get a bag at each other on this quick.
We need it, you know what I'm talking about? That
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It's good that crunchy, that soft, that gelatinous. You know
I'm talking about You know you eat cels is gelatinous.
You got suck that bone, right. So I feel like
Berne has that same because under that cheat your own
you still get that fatty part. I eat it. I
ain't gonna hold you.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Eat it got you. I mean, like for once we
hit my heart good appointment.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Remember this is a holiday meal. We're not eating it
every so often. We're not eating it every week or
every every other day. You know, growing up in my household,
eating protein was a specialty. We're not eating in every meal.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Correct and call it Sunday food. My dad will make
a roast that might be the only time with eating
meal exactly. I'm kind of in all with how naturally
you're able to describe cooking processes the way you just
just I was just why are you so?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Because food is science and people don't understand that it
is spiritual. So you know, if you Brazilian condom blay,
you know voodoo and Haiti, you like, all of these
food is cooked around ceremonies too. Use a spiritual aspect
for me. Spirituality, though, I'm a Christian. Is like, while
somebody cooks something for me, and I feel that energy
in that food, that pig has sacrificed its life for me.
(12:26):
So it's spiritual, right, and it's love okay, and it's nourishment.
So not only is it that, it's science. Because the
thing about this, you can buy a pork shoulder, or
you can buy a piece of steak, depending on what
cut it is. You can't just see anything. You might
have to braiz. It might there's certain cooking techniques that
you need to know before you just get anything. If
you get a chicken breast, or you're gonna see the
(12:48):
chicken breast, you're gonna braize, are you gonna ste it?
It just kind of just depends. You need to know
what the end result is so you can know the
cooking process. I pay attention to stuff like that. Like
for example, I've actually as a young chef, I had
duck legs and I seared them and it was like
chewing on a rubber shoe because because I don't understand
that that's where the toughness because ducks swim all day, right,
(13:09):
they're walking, so the legs are tough. You have to
braise them or you have to com fee them.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I wish I knew you when we were in France
last year because I remember when I got them duck legs.
I just like that.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
But you can't. But if you don't, you can't. You know,
you got to understand, like this technique is for this cut?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Wow? All right. What I love the most is how
you started with the history with the work you're doing.
Obviously we kind of dabble in the same things, but
I love when I talked to someone and you asked
them about a dish. You didn't start with the pork
and the tenderness and the cooke. Time you started with well,
you got to understand where pigs even how did they
get here because you know, like in Cuba, the original
(13:52):
Cuban sandwich was not with pork. It was a hard
tapioca starch based bread with vegetables. And when they brought
those pigs into the end till this area, they started
cooking it and putting it in the bread, and that's
how it evolved. So it's interesting. Obviously, you know, I
know you, and I knew that we would get down
a little bit, but I love that that's how you
lead because food, like whether it's chocolate or vanilla, pork, rice,
(14:19):
any of these staples. Like if you talk about vanilla,
you're really talking about or cinnamon, like you're talking about
colonists setting up monopolies right in indigenous lands, just like
stripping them of what they had and taking it for themselves.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Right, And if you want to honor these people, we
got to talk about the history of food.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I'm going to honor Puerto Rico. I gotta talk about
the history of or Jamaica or Cuba like you're saying,
or even African American, Like if were talking about rice,
we need to talk about Golagichi. We need to talk
about West Africa. We gotta talk about Cinabon, we gotta
talk about Nigeria. We can't just talk about rice.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It's the backbone of Yes, I mean, I agree with you.
Enslaved people were really the backbone of most, if not all,
cooking and baking traditions. I mean in Latin America when
it comes to baking, it's easy to attribute Europeans with oh,
like clearly this looks like a bag ad or this
(15:13):
looks like it you know, that looks like brios or whatever.
But people forget that it wasn't just Europeans that pulled up.
They brought a bunch of African people with them that
they had enslaved, and those were the people actually making
exactly food and.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
The bad So they were their original teachers.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
They were the original because they were the ones actually made.
It's like the restaurants here today. You go to Italian restaurant,
it's owned by some Italian guy, but it's us in
the kitchen cooking.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Exactly, especially the Hispanic culture. Listen, every restaurant I've ever
worked in one hundred percent Hispanics in the kitchen. You
got to learn some kitchen Spanish period. You have to,
because those are the people in the kitchen. So I
want to pay homage and I want to give respect
to those people because they taught me everything I know. Honestly.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Will be back after these messages from our sponsors. All right,
all right, let's just jump back in time, person to eat.
I think it's time for me to present to you
what I made, explain to you what I did to
(16:21):
make it. So I'm gonna take a moment. I'm gonna
step over a couple of plates. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I'm waiting on you. I I need another one, chef,
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
All right, So here's how this goes down.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
What do you want to start? This smells the aroma
is beautiful. Talk to me about the corn bread. It
looks super moist buttery.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Saying it looks super drag about like looks on. I
think that you got kind of dry. I put the
gravy from the Better Neil all over it just now.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Why because you feel like it's dry because I.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Baked it earlier and it's kind of it's not like
warm out of the oven, and I thought it might
be dry. So I just kind of drenched in some.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Soft Okay, you think it's gonna save you, let's see.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
No, I think I'm about to get shipped on.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, okay, all right, you know I love you though.
Look it ain't like my mom's, but.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
We do not serve cornbread Artist and Briana Bakery, No one,
no customers need to worry about it.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It's good. The flavor is good. It is a little dry.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Listen, the corn bread came out a little dry.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I talked to me about your recipe.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Well, first of all, the recipe lives on China dot com.
So we would definitely want to get our listeners over there, okay,
to try it out. I've made several different iterations of
corn bread, you know, just using cornflour, obviously getting some
of that butter going.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I know that, you know, corn flour not cornmeal cornmeal.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Like literally literally this blend that's right here on the table.
I think part of the issue is, like that's a
blend of three different types. Okay, like that's a blend
of three different types of corn flowers. You know what
I think honestly, the issue is that I think there's
masada in there too. I think there's an extimalized corn
in there which can affect texture, which can absorb a
(18:21):
little bit too much moisture, you know. So I think
that there was like a technicality and not necessarily my fault.
It was a technicality that I did not I was
not aware of. And the rice the not trying to
reinvent the wheel here, like you already know what it is.
I mean, I almost think bomb Okay, you know, before
(18:45):
I just tell me what you're tasting the rice is.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I do taste of sofrito. The rice is cooked really nicely,
is not overcooked, It's not mushy. It's not super dry
or super crunchy. It's not like you're making for me.
You know, I'm happy to make for me. But the
chicken and the rice is super crunchy because they've got
that caramelization at the bottom. So I don't like that.
It's called pick al. I think Dominicans call it that,
(19:11):
So that's not what you're looking for. And adols and gondola,
So this is good. I like this a lot though.
Benny is very good too.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
All right, sorry, I haven't eaten today, so I'm going
just like savage.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
He's being a savage, all y'all hear him?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Okay, And you need to tell me where where you're going?
Where's your mind going?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
The beni is really good. The beni is very very good.
It's very tender. It's very juicy. I see what you
mean when you say that is not crunchy. Talk to
me about that. I think it's perfect. It reminds me
of my stepmother's. It's very good. It's seasoned perfectly well.
With the chiatto.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
What happened with I feel like I'm in I'm in class.
I'm in class with you right now. I'll show you
what happened.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
With you need a broiler? What happened? Oh, so chef
cheated everybody he has So the inpot got is super
juicy but not crunchy exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
That's what people with time constraints do. They use pressure cookers.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
No, that was smart. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And as soon as you started talking about it, and
as soon as my memory was going, I was like, damn,
that did I did not even think about getting that
crunch right. You could do that, but you got to
finish it, finish it in the oven.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You got to finish it in the oven.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
All right. So the recipe on tinline dot com. Obviously
you know with the be neil you know this. We're
talking about slow roasted marinated pork shoulder or picnic garlic oregano.
You know what I'm saying, A nice combination to get that.
I did it the quick way. Maybe I cheated, maybe
I didn't, but our listeners are dying to No, Chef,
(20:51):
did I bring you back to your holiday table? And
if not, where did I bring you?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You did bring me back to the holiday table. I
feel it. I feel good, I'm happy, I'm laughing, I
feel positive. We have good vibes, get energy. So you
definitely want me back to the holiday table. I think
just a corn bread.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
That can't make corn bread.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's just a corn bread chef.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
That's it, you know. Honestly, I feel kind of.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Something will go wrong for the viewers something or the listeners.
Something will go wrong, and the kitschen it's never going
to be a perfect be like that.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
That's your show. Something will go wrong? Will you tell
listeners how to phys with all your knowledge?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
All right?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
So listen, You've had such an esteemed career already, and
you're quite young. How did the nostalgia of food, the
nostalgia of this meal in Puerto Rican cuisine, and your
upbringing get you from that holiday table to becoming an
iconic chef in you know, the culinary world right now?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I mean, I guess I just feel like food gave
me my purpose. Some of you may know my story,
but I serve six years in the United States Army.
I reck in Afghanistan combat veteran. So when I joined
the military, I knew when I got out I had
to be a chef. And I feel like growing up
in food and having my Puerto Rican grandmother and my
uncles and my aunts and Titi whoever, and Uncle Macho whoever.
(22:17):
And then I come from a black background. So my
mom's making CALLI greens and you know, she's doing her
fried chicken. I was like, damn, this is giving me
a purpose. It really gave me a way to get
out of the military and survive. So I feel like
the nostalgia of being raised in the kitchen, like my
mom was raising me by herself, and her first job
off of the streets. She was in the streets was
(22:38):
a soul food restaurant called Bird's Place in Bridgeport. I
was running around the kitchen at two years old just
see my mom cook. So it showed me away from
my mom to get off the streets. It was away
from my stepmother to help her mental health because she
struggles with depression. So the only time I really saw
her at her happiest moment, and that relationship and that
(22:58):
marriage that my mother and my mother had was over food.
So it got me out of the military, it got
my mom off the streets, and it helped my stepmother
with depression. So I owe food everything.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Wow, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, And it sounds
like mental health is really important to you. Is this
something in this industry that you advocate for and actively
work towards improving for yourself for others.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, I mean for me personally, Like I said, it is.
You know, when I got home from Afghanistan, I was
diagnosed with postraumunic stress disorder. So you know, you could
go to the VA. They're going to try to give
you pills and all this stuff like that. I'm like,
you know what, I find myself finding peace when I'm cooking,
So then let me do that. Wow, let me do that.
So mental health is real in the industry, you know, chef,
(23:43):
we come from a toxic industry, whether you're baking in
pastry or you're in the culinary side. We come from
that era of shut up, do what you're told, and
you know, be quiet and the yelling and the scream.
I've lived that in the kitchen. I've lived that in
the kitchen, and you know, I just go into my
happy place. I kind of work with my head down
and think about anything else. But don't burn nothing. Make
(24:03):
sure it tastes good, you know. So food is just
my escape. It's my escape.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I've actually worked with women veterans who suffer from sexual
salt in the military, and they found their way back
to their marriages, and they found their way back to
their children through food.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So teaching them culinary skills, they can bring it back
to the household. They can rebuild these relationships. So when
I saw that, I'm like, Okay, this is something that
is real. Food can help mental health. Anything can. If
you might like golf, you might go out play golf,
you might like basketball. We all have our things. But
for me, food is my peace, and honestly we're going
back to spirituality. Food is the way I see God
(24:40):
because I mean we talk about the DNA of a seed,
you got one hundred species of apples, you got all
of these things. It's like, Wow, God is real, God exists.
How can who made this? I didn't make it. It
wasn't me. It's such a big picture. So for me,
food is a way to defeat depression and mental health.
It's just one avenue.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, the most delicious oven it is. I mean, everyone
wants to eat, right, so why not, you know, become dedicated.
I have to say that I relate to a lot
of what you're saying. I suffer from anxiety, panic disorder,
stuff like that. Is a chef thing.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Don't how rich. It is a chef thing.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
The people think it doesn't have panic disorder, but no,
I've found many, many days of feeling at peace baking.
And you know, I used to be a cook on
the line in New Orleans late nights. Mm hmm, I
(25:41):
caught what I call gremlin activity. You know, it's New Orleans.
First of all, the cooking culture there is a little intense.
And when I started baking, I realized how much more
peaceful it could be to serve people food. I'm a
morning person. I activate fully, like when I wake up,
I'm ready to like accomplish. I'm like so ready for
(26:03):
my day to start, right, not really a night person.
So I'm waking up tomorrow at three to go do
this bake. It's quiet, no one, no one's around, no
one to bother you, no one's gonna text me. I
mean three in the morning, four in the morning. The
city is asleep. And I just I find so much
like p and solace in baking. Because of that. Now,
(26:25):
obviously the flip side tired. It's like, you know, it
is kind of a rigorous thing to get people their
bread in the morning. So I can relate to what
you're saying seeing food as a way to overcome mental
health struggles, because it's definitely been the vehicle that's propelled
my mind into better places. But then, you know, there's
(26:46):
the flip side, you know, the social media, the expectations.
Now there's expectations that expectations, expectations we talk to me
about that. I want to hear it.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I do what I want when I want. I do
not subscribe to posting every day. And because life is
too short, one day, you're gonna wake up. One day
you're not gonna wake up. So God woke me up today.
This is the day that God has given me. I'm
gonna do what I'll need to do to make me
feel good. And social media does not make you feel
good all the time, by the comparison, and this person
doing that, and what is it? What I use social
(27:19):
media for is inspiration. That's how I'm at you, you
know what I mean. I'm researching. I'm like, who's this
Afro latito over here doing these big things? And that
was inspired by you? Other than that, I don't because
it can sink you, It can really drown your mental health. Yeah,
so if we don't learn the balance, then it's a negative,
So fuck the expectation.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I don't know what kind of spiritual energy happened today,
but I really needed to hear that. It's a lot
to keep up with.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
It's tiring.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
It's insanely coincidental that you just said what you said,
because it is very difficult to maintain. You know, it's
something that I think I need to do.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
But listen, don't attach your success or don't attach your
worth to social media. If you don't post for the
next six months, you are still Brian Ford. You understand
what I'm saying. It doesn't matter. You still got on
your own bakery. People wake up in the morning, they
come see you, you start their day. Social Media is fake.
It doesn't it's not real. It's not rigila total this
shaking her head. It's you have no idea, this confirmation.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
It's not real. It's not it's not.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It's not attached to who you are. You think when
God created you, God created you like, oh, Brian's gonna
be on social media. No, you have a bigger purpose
because if social media crashed tomorrow, is your purpose is
your dead?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
No?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
No, it's bigger than social and.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Also intertwining all sometimes like business endeavors or income or whatever.
If it's too tightly tied into that, then it's like, yeah,
if it does crash, well, how I eat.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
You're gonna eat.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
You're gonna eat eat, You're gonna eat, definitely gonna eat.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I don't even look at it like that, because if
you do that, like, oh, I got a post, and
I got this brand, and I got that brand. Looking
at me, and I might get this show, and you're
gonna eat. If it's for you, it's for you, whether
you want so. I'm a social media person, per se, right,
I post when I need to put. I haven't posted
in three weeks. I'm going on a month, you know
what I'm saying. But I'm in negotiation to do things
with these media companies and I don't even post because
(29:11):
they love me. They love my spirits. You know what
I'm saying, Chef, that's real shit. Wow, that's yours. It's like,
I don't need to you know what I'm saying. I listen,
I'm wearing I'm wearing the Uncle Near's shirt. It says
I'm making black history. I made one post. One post.
The CEO of Uncle NER's Fun Weaver sent me a
whole care package with a letter. And that was one post.
(29:32):
I wasn't out there Uncle Near's Uncle nears. That was
one post that was a real, just one genuine post
because I'm just what I'm doing. I like the brand,
but she respects me. Social media is there is an avenue.
It's good for inspiration, it is good to market. It
has its pros, but it has its cons. But I want,
you know, young influencers to know, like listen, if you
(29:52):
take a break. You might need a break, you might
need a break, but you're still worthy because it's not
about social media. It's about what you do and for
people and their spirit and your spirit.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
I'm kind of speechless right now. That's wild. I feel
like it's something I think is difficult to navigate, but
I'm starting to realize it's not difficult because it's a choice.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
It's a choice.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
It's a choice to scroll, it's a choice to compare.
It's a choice to get consumed. A lot to talk
about again, you know, I can't wait to crack beers
with you another time. But there's obviously articles and this
and that that we can read about you, but you know,
your journey through the CIA, I think you said one
black instructor. He was a male in the culinaris department,
Like that was the only black instructor you've ever seen, right,
(30:39):
And that's wild. Yeah, So I want to hear a
little bit more about where you know, there's a clear
lack of representation and there's a clear need to change that. Right,
How were those first moments in there? How did you
feel talk to me?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I mean for me as an alumni, I had and
the colinary supers one black chef, and I think in
the Patriarch's department we had another black chef, two men.
I never saw a woman, especially women of color there.
So when I got the opportunity to get the job,
I applied and I said, what do I got to lose?
So when I got the job and the New York
Post announced I'm the first black woman, and it just
(31:17):
went kind of I don't want to say viral, but
it did make a spark. It was my legacy has
just activated. I've always had a legacy, but this is
like the first time in history, like you said, in
seventy six years. We're celebrating our seventy sixth anniversary this
fall at the CIA, and I'm honored, and I'm grateful
to be that first black woman because I'm coming with
(31:38):
a force. You know, I'm coming with a force, and
I didn't come to play. And a lot of my
students now have somebody who looks like them. Right, So
it starts with one, it starts with two, now with three.
And like I said, how I met you, I have
been developing the cuisines and cultures of Africa and its
diaspora in the America's concentration. So at the CIA, we
(31:59):
have the Japanese concentration, we have Barcelona, Spain, we have
I think Singapore might be a concentration. So these students
are able to immerse themselves in this culture and travel
abroad to these locations to really be developed in this cuisine.
So now we have the cuisines and cultures of Africans diaspora.
And I think the challenge for this course is when
(32:20):
you say diaspora is the journey of people. We're not
just going to Japan. We can go to South Carolina,
we go to New Orleans, we can go to Brazil,
we can go to Cuba, we can go to Nigeria,
we can go to et cetera, Congo wherever. Right now,
the class has been approved campus wide, all campuses, all
branch NAPA voted on is Singapore voted on the San
Antonio voted on at High Park has voted on it.
(32:42):
Because they all have to see the curriculum before we
usher something new in. I created it. I went to Yale,
I got a library card. I used it Leelle's Library
digital library. I was there for eight hours a day,
reading books, talking to people. You know, Doctor Harris was influential,
just kind of setting the groundwork, tell us you you
need to get this done. She's the mother of this shit,
(33:02):
you know, doctor Harris. She just got a lifetime achievement.
But we were there at the family reunion watching her
get honored. And you know, you got Alexander Small's there,
you got peertm was an influential. Madi Seta Pasia was
influential helping me and Kevin Mitchell, who's in South Carolina.
So I had great mentors. But when I say reading
the books and sitting there and my eyes hurting in
(33:24):
front of the computer, and you know, me developing every
recipe for this class me, you know that's why I
called you, because I found you when I was looking
up Honduras and Afro Panamanian and Belize, and I just
didn't really know where to go when I was talking
about Latin America and I stumbled across you in Isaac
villa Verde. Isaac's from Panama, and you guys really helped
me navigate this Afro Latino cuisine. So now we're at
(33:47):
the CIA, we're trying to say, finally, people of color
have a seat at the table. Yeah, because like you
just said, you talk about French cuisine, you talk about
all these European cuisines, but it's like, why do black
people not have a seat at the table. I'm here
to break those glass ceilings and make sure we have
a seat at the table is developed. But whether I
teach it or not, it could be another black woman,
that could be another black and I don't who cares
who teaches it. It just needs to be maybe, I
(34:11):
don't know. I mean, we had actually a pilot that
it was a white Jewish man. He's a mentor of mine,
great ally, but students were like, we want to see
somebody of color teaching his class. That's he's great, but
he's not black. How are you talking about African American
cuisine or Afro Caribbean or whatever you're talking about. But
you're not actually a person, you know what I'm saying.
(34:34):
If I'm French, you need to be teaching French cuisine.
I'm a black woman. Do you want me to teach
French or do you want to get somebody from friends?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I suppose that's like if you go to a school
or whatever, if you go to a college, you'll see
a black professor teaching things that white people. Did you know?
Or it's like, but this is our food, this is different.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Have you eaten it? That's what I'm saying. I mean,
if you're a white man, have you had goosey soup?
That's what I'm saying. But and has he made fufu?
And even as a black woman, I haven't even I'm
not even fully equipped to be honest. I'm from Connecticut
and I'm really real about that. I am the only
black woman teaching their colunter currently, so right now I'm
(35:16):
the only person that can really teach it. But I
want to bring more people on.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
That's fair. You're doing the role to get people in
the door of like, hey, listen, Like I'm black and
I want to teach this, but you want to bring
in people.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
There's more people authentic than me. There's so many.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
City of the teacher at the CIA is going to
be more important it is anything.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I mean, I'm black, yes, but I'm not African. I've
been Africa twice. Going Africa twice doesn't mean anything. You know,
you could spend your whole life like Nigeria. I could
teach his whole concentration in fifteen weeks just on Nigeria.
I'm black, and I'm honored to do it, and I've
written it, But I do feel like there's other candidates looks,
and we're hiring. That's what I'm trying to say. We
are hiring at the Colias with America. Brian Ford, if
(36:01):
please come back, let us know. We need Afro Caribbean,
Afro Latino, West African, North Africa doesn't matter. We need
that in the baking and pastry department too.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I'm coming. I can only imagine how white the bread
and pastry program is. It's probably the whitest thing at
the CIA.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
It is so we don't even they don't even know.
You will be teaching people that have been cooking and
baking for twenty something years. You're going to be teaching.
I'm teaching people about this cuisine that I've been teaching
since I've been born, right, and it.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Must be an interesting dynamic to feel that, right, Stay Flaky,
We'll be right back. Welcome back to Flaky Biscuit. Let
(36:56):
me tell y'all something right now, let's go. Chef is
the most confident, intelligent. The energy I'm feeling is just different.
Thank you. You're bringing a different energy to me. I
feel like I'm learning from you, and I am honored
that you're here, not the other way around. Thank you
(37:16):
for coming on, Flakey Biscuit. We are not done. There's
a couple more things to go over here at Flaky Biscuit.
We like to play a fun little trivia game. You know,
it's no pressure, you know what I'm saying. There's a
couple of questions. I canna ask you some questions, all right?
You ready?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
In which popular Jamaican dish is the plant or fruit
the main ingredient? I'm gonna give you some give you options.
Don't worry. It's not like if it was a blank
that would be so. Is it corn mill porridge? Is it?
I'm selfish?
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I was gonna say that before you answer, that's.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I'm not know you. You have exposed me, so I'm
not extremely familiar with this dish. Talk to me about it.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
It's I mean, you were talking about allow soft fish.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Icon, which was the way of preserving things and everything, and.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Aki is a Caribbean fruit and it's just sweet. It
gives you that sweetness and then that salty. I guess
with Mammy flavor profile you would. But it's I don't
know if it's Jamaica's national dish. Don't quote me, but
I think it is. Can we google that real quick?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Let's google Bridgie.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Can't google that? And I think you have to eat
aki in a certain season.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
It is.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I think you have to eat aki in a certain
season or a certain way because I think all of
it's not edible or there's something something's poisonous in it.
So there, it's not just the way it's probassing.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
You guys got that like cyanide.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
So yeah, it's Jamaica's national dish, and wow, I.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Feel like we should just end the game. We got
one that maybe you ain't gonna know because it's more
of like a weird fact what food holds the world
record for being the most stolen around the globe. And
(39:17):
there's no options. You just have to pick because you
which food.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Is the most stolen throughout the world the world? Which food?
Which food?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah? I think staples.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Mm hmm. That's a hard one. Well, can you tell
me is it?
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Is it a spice it? I'll give you three options.
Is it rice? Is it cheese? Or is it tomatoes.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I'm gonna go with cheese. You are right, you are
man cheese? Is lyfe cheese? I haven't, But if it's
parmesan reggiano, I might.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Speaking of geez here with chefro no surprise. And next question,
if you have magerio mageero co phobia.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
How you spell it m A g e I r
o c o okay phobia?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Magaro coo phobia? What are you afraid of? Is it ants?
Is it walking? Is it cooking?
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Or is it magnets mcghero coco.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Let's do this thing where it Google tells us how
to pronounce something madeiro caphobia?
Speaker 2 (40:53):
And now what is it again?
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Ants? Walking, cooking or are you afraid of magnets?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I don't know, I mean is it cooking? Because we're
on a cooking show. I'm like, are people scared to cook?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
That's a thing I suppose, but I think I got that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I might have it.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
You might have that. Yeah, but you just told me
to come up and you're cook for me.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, but I might be a little scared. You don't
get scared, ween cook for people.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
I didn't get scared to serve you dry corn. Back
the last part of Flakey Biscuit podcast. Talk to me
about the National Restaurant Association Education Foundation and what that
means to you and what's in the pipeline with regards
to it.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
So the NRAF is basically we all know the National
Restaurant Association. They're the not for profit sector of that.
So we just kind of go around and raise money
for scholarships because as an instructor, I see a lot
of my students drop out, especially my students of color,
drop out because they can't afford school. So you know,
hopefully I'm going to be working with them to have
my own scholarship and partnership with another brand or whatever,
(41:59):
just to give back to the community. And I think
I'll be able to build the criteria. If you're a woman,
if you're a person of color, if you're a veteran.
I don't know. I think I'll be able to work
with the NRAF to have some guidelines that we put
in place to give scholarships. Back Brian, we were at
the family reunion and destined right the kid who just
(42:20):
showed up. I've been in contact with him. So he's
somebody who is passionate about cooking but can't afford it.
So what do we do to help people get money
to go to these colorment Whether it's Johnson Wells, whether
it's Ice, It doesn't matter if school costs money. I
had to join the army just to go to school.
I had to use a GI bill. Nobody should have
to join the military to go get an education. So
they're close to my heart. I'm doing events with them,
(42:41):
I'm doing pop ups with them, all to sponsor and
raise money for education.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Wow, and how can we help? Is there a way
to volunteer as well?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
And there's always a way to volunteer, there's always a
way to donate. NRAF has a website and anything that
I'm doing or with other chefs, just pop up and eat.
If you buy a ticket, those proceeds go to somebody's education.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Amazing chef Ro. One of the biggest inspirations that I
have in the game right now is you, and I
really encourage all the listeners of Flaky Biscuit to follow Chefro,
not just on social media as we discuss, but in life,
pull up to the events, find ways to support and
help make these changes.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Thank you so much for coming to Thank you a pleasure.
Until next time.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
All right, thank y'all so much for tuning in today.
Find the recipe for the pernil and that cornbread on
Shondaland dot com. I want to know how it goes.
Make sure you tag me artists in Brian and of
course the magnificent chef ro at Chefro one two three,
post your photos let us know how you did. Remember,
Chefro is a real deal chef. Don't play around when
(43:55):
you make this recipe. Make sure your cornbread don't come
out dry like mindded it was an act. You can
support the National Restaurant Association Educational Foundation at Choose Restaurants
dot org. All of these handles and links that I've
mentioned are in the show notes for this episode. If
you like Flaky Biscuit, leave us at Shiny five star review.
(44:17):
You already know, make sure you subscribe, you like, you share,
Thank y'all for to support. Blakey Biscuit is executive produced
by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and
Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer is Bridget Kenna and our
editor and producer is Nicholas Harder, with music by Crucial.
Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be found each week on
(44:40):
Shondaland dot com. Subscribe to the Shondaland YouTube channel for
more Flaky Biscuit content. Flaky Biscuit is a production of
Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from
Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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