November 13, 2024 • 40 mins
Chris chats with special guests from Athletic Motion Golf, the golf data experts that challenges common golf advice. Discover how AMG's journey began, why they prioritize data over tradition, and how they help golfers leverage their own strengths. From debunking misconceptions about movement to finding each player’s “superpower,” this episode sheds light on how data and tech can elevate your game. More from Athletic Motion Golf: https://athleticmotiongolf.com/ @athleticmotiongolf
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the golf in is momb Squad. My name
is Chris Finn. I'm your host, and today I'm excited
to have two guests with me. You know, hopefully you
have heard of Athletic Motion Golf. If you haven't, maybe
you haven't heard of YouTube either. I don't know, but
we have with us today that the two founders of
Athletic Motion Golf, micronad O'shan Webb. Super excited to have
(00:30):
you guys with me. It's not every day I get
to have two other absolute data geeks who do research
and look at numbers, particularly on the golf side. This
is really exciting for me. So welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you, body, appreciate you. Yeah, I'm excited to talk
to you for a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, for sure. So I want to start with you guys.
Put out a video recently on YouTube on your channel
and it's Athletic Motion Golf. He said, So YouTube is
yow you to tube dot com. Friend of you who
don't know what that is, I'm assuming everybody knows what
that is. Therefore, you obviously most of you probably know.
I thought Emotion Golf one of the recent ones that
you guys put out was the firing of the Hips video,
(01:09):
and I thought that was super interesting obviously coming from
the physical world, and obviously we get lots of questions
about why aren't my hips? You know, we test people's
hips and they don't move, and they're like, why are
my hips moving? And I thought one of the coolest
things that you guys talked about in that video was
the misconception of when people are getting the top that
like they have to fire their hips and they try
to move their hips super early and it causes all
(01:29):
these other issues in the golf swing. But I guess
for everyone listening, I'd love to just kind of hear
from you guys kind of the genesis, like where did
that idea for that video come from? And then we
can obviously vibe a little bit on like what you
guys are seeing with that and what the goals you know,
of telling people and sharing that information are.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, I think the I mean, all of our videos
come from what we see in lessons from players, and
you know that kind of ebbs and flows and certain
things come and you know kind of in fad and
certain things go out of fad. Uh. The hip thing
has been around when you say, Sean, it's been around
for probably as long as we've been teaching the game.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So I was a kid firing the hip since it
was just take it back and it all costs. Just
let your hips get wildly open as much as you
can in the first mill a second in the.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, the the idea of creating a big stretch in
the downswing, that's what we see trying to do and
it's just but it's not what we see from the data.
It's not what the best players are doing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Wait, so you're telling me that what you actually see
in data doesn't match with historically what the belief is
in golf. What that that's never happened before. That's that's
that's so cool. So so talk a little bit about
what you guys are seeing there because that's a huge
misconception that we see with tons of people that come
in to see us.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, you go ahead, go ahead, Sean.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I'll the start and say, you know, you want to
feel the maximum stretch and these good players is pretty
much right at the top of the ceram before the
club change the direction. You might see a little bit more,
but you want to you want to do the work
on the back swinging and get your stretch on the
back swing side instead of trying to get all of
the stretch between the upper and lower body on the downsling.
I'll let you take it from there, Mike.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah. I mean it's exactly what I was going to say,
that the stretch really takes place in the takeaway. Yeah,
like what we'll what we'll see a lot from golfers
and the golfers that come to us or you know,
we don't see a lot of you know, people that
have just taken.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Up the game.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
We see guys who've been in the game a while,
been fighting the same issues for a while, and like
you said, one of those is rotation. We'll see a
lot of hips and torso whether it's shoulders or chests
moving at just about a one to one ratio for
most of the early part of the backswing and then
you know, it'll kind of get to the top with
(03:56):
a little bit of separation, and then the player will
try to separate aren't in the downswing. What we see
from good golfers is the chest will kind of turn
to pelvis, so the chest is getting a big head
start right out of the gate that will pull on
the pelvis so by the time they get into the
top or near the top, they've created enough separation where
(04:17):
when the hips start first in the downswing, that essentially
carries everything around with it and there's not really any stretch.
Some players don't have a stretch at all in the
downswing once the club starts down.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So, just to repeat what I'm not the brightest guy
in the world, and there's probably people listening they're way
smarter than me. So the so what I'm hearing is
the idea of that quote unquote X factor stretch or
like you get to the top and then there's a
massive increase in the separation. Actually, and what you guys
are seeing is that most of that's happening basically before
(04:52):
you get to the top of the downswing, and then
basically while the hips are driving it, you're kind of
keeping that it's not necessarily increasing massively once that down
swing starts. Is is that what I'm hearing right rightactly?
And if you see somebody, because we see this all
the time, you know, the number one limitation we see
with guys physically is that their lead hip internal rotation,
their ability to rotate into their lead hip socks, right,
(05:14):
and so then they come in and you know, for
whatever reason they've come in distance or pain, we fix
their hip and then they'll go, I'm trying to fire
my hips. So literally this is like what they try
to do. What are the things that you guys see
if people are trying to do that, Like, what are
the I guess maybe the faults or the issues that
people start to run into with that misconception versus what
(05:35):
you're actually seeing better players do with the data.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It could be a thing. It just depends on how
they've kind of load the system up going back. But
they could fire their hips and get their arms really
stuck behind. They can fire their hips and come steep
over the top of the plane. Is a lot of
different things they could do because of that, and the
swing just tends to look fairly disjointed. Whether the torso
is hanging back so far behind.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
The lower body, Yeah, I would say probably day in
day out, especially golfers over fifty, they're going to be
overly turned with the pelvis and the backswing, So any
firing of the hip to start the downswing carries everything
out and over. You see a lot of steepness in
the downswing from that movement.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So basically if they overturn, that's actually makes a lot
of sense, right because a lot of the you know,
the I guess discussion around particularly that fifty plus golfers,
you got to get more rotation, gotta get more rotation.
So now you're saying what we're seeing, what you guys
are seeing is they're actually over rotating. And then that
can you explain how does that drive the arms out
farther in front of the downswing.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It's like a rubber band. So if you stretch Mac,
stretch that rubber band in the backswing, and you know,
even in lessons, we'll try to talk to the golfer
when he's at the top, but it's kind of like
your dressed on and then that first move down whatever
it is that moves, everything's kind of like that rubber
band snap and everything's going out and then they'll try
(06:58):
to throw in some tilt aid or whatever to manage it.
But it's, Uh, you hit the nail on the head
when you talked about you know, there's such an equating
of more backswing rotation with more distance and we all
have to still play in that you know, quarter of
a second down swing, and it's just difficult, especially as
(07:19):
we get older, to you know, unwind our Pelvis one
hundred and twenty degrees in a quarter of a second.
Best players in the world aren't trying to do it.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Because they're not trying to do it, we probably shouldn't
try to do it, right that, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
They usually have a better fitness team around them than
we did.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well, And I'm curious, you know, obviously you know, we're
immediately diving into the data, which everyone who listens here
loves that. Yeah, for the listeners who maybe don't know
you guys, I'd love to kind of understand your journey
a little bit of like how did you guys arrive
into the you guess are obviously the gears, the Sam
Putt Lab, the you know what's kind of the genesis
for you guys, you know, to where you are obviously
(07:57):
you know, quite the influential brand and two guys in
golf in terms of experts and helping people understand. And
we've got a number of people who work with us
who've gone to you or follow your guys stuff for
religiously the number of times we get so this is
the latest video from AMG and like, can I do this.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Is my body?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Is my is my body able to do this?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Right?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
That's easy for us, right, Like I'm not your swing coach,
but you know, if you're trying to do that, your body,
like your hip moves five degrees, dude, So no, you
can't do that yet. Two more weeks and then you
should be fine. But for you guys, like, what's the
journey been, Like, how did you guys? You know from
reading about you guys and you guys have known each
other for a while, but we'd love to hear a
little bit about your guys journey, you know, professionally together.
And then obviously you know where did the love for
(08:38):
the data and objective measurement come from?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I'll go first. I mean, most of the reason that
we have all the tech we have is first of
all for our own golf games.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I mean, yeah, I mean we've got something.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So I still play, Mike still plays, and we still
hit balls all the time. And I think it's part
of the fun of being around the game the way
we are, even though we're not playing it professionally, we
get to still be around it all the time and
continue to try to work on our own games. And
when you work on your own game and figure things out,
we're able to help more students. So I think it
(09:19):
was almost like a flywheel where I wanted to get better.
Then I would learn something about my swing, and I
would be able to help more players and more players,
and it just kept going like that, and I would
try to keep improving my ability so I could help
almost anybody that came to me. I feel like now
I have a pretty good shot of knowing what they're
doing wrong, just from the sheer fact that I've tried
everything on my own swing and I've done everything wrong
(09:42):
at some point and got my swing now pretty much
to where I want it. So, I mean that's kind
of the reason it all got started. And then we
just wanted to help as many people as we could,
so we tried to put all that information on the internet.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, I mean that's how we met fifteen or so
years ago in Long Island. We were both up there
to buy a three D system, and you know, that's
when we first met, and then we got to become friends,
and then we had, you know, the idea of you know, hey,
I'd like to do some online lessons, you know, because
(10:18):
the coaching golf model is such a bad model where
you know, one hour for one hours of you know,
payment is such a tough model if you get sick
or if you you know, want to spend time with
the family and all that. So we were just looking
for ways to you know, try to take advantage of
the Internet. And we didn't have any idea of what
(10:39):
we were doing. So we just figured we would, you know,
join up and if we really screwed it up, it
would cost us half as much if we screwed it
up ourselves. So that was the master plan, is just
trying to minimize our our outside Yeah, smart one in
and then you know, we both from an athletic background.
(11:01):
Sean's played every sport growing up. Was a really good athlete,
good baseball player that was more basketball, football, and every
lesson you know that I had felt like every golf
lesson that I had felt like it was taking something
away from the athleticism that I kind of brought to
the table. And and you know, in the sake of
(11:23):
making better golf movements. And we you know, when we
started this, that was when that we'd already had force plates.
We reached using force plates, we'd already had the earlier
three D systems and we you know, so measurement was new,
but it was available, and we both jumped into it
because of our history, because of you know, all of
(11:44):
that kind of you know, golf instruction is essentially one concept,
passed down, passed down, passed down, and you know, it's
kind of like the game of phone tagers. Some of
it probably wasn't passed out fitness exactly. Yeah, so you know,
it was like the perfect time to do what we did,
with the measurement tools being available, the interest in it,
(12:07):
and then our backgrounds and in other sports was kind
of a perfect storm, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
So I'd love to hear, like, so explain the like,
I guess, the the process of you know, you guys,
are I had. I had a similar kind of story
of you know, I went to when I was starting
the our business here and I went to fifteen different
golf professionals at local clubs, and I got fifteen different lessons,
and I was like, this is wild because I'm pretty
sure I showed up at the same freaking swing every
(12:33):
single time, Like there's something wrong here, there's no assessment.
How did you guys? And obviously you had the frustration
of like the athleticism being restricted and obviously it's in
the name athletic motion golf. How did how have you
guys gone about, you know, ensuring that the people that
you work with, Like when you approach somebody coming into
work with you, whether it's online or iod, definitely got
to talk about the new facility you guys have in person.
(12:55):
We'll get to that. So stay tuned, people, because you
got you want to hear about that. But the like
when you have somebody come in, like, how are you
guys helping people in a way that you felt like,
what was the process of getting to this model where
you guys are at and how you approach working with
someone so that they can actually use their athleticism as
opposed to kind of trying to have to restrict it.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I mean, I think the main thing is, you know,
when you start measuring people, things stand out that we
call it someone superpower, Like Okay, are they're really good
at using the ground a certain way or their strong
movement in their upper body through the ball, or we
try to figure out what that is or what sports
they played and kind of build the swing around what
they do. Really well, instead of trying to take that
(13:39):
away from a lot, which you agree, Mike, that's kind
of how we go about changing swings and helping people
instead of trying to just strip away everything that.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Came with I've yeah, one hundred percent agree. I've been
around Scott Hamilton for thirty years and I've always heard
him say, way before I ever thought about, you know,
teaching golf, always heard him say, you never want to
cut Superman's cape off. I had no idea what that
meant until you're actually able to start measuring golfers and
(14:09):
trying to help golfers, and just about everyone does something
pretty darn well that if you're not careful, you can
diminish in an effort to try to make bad things better.
It's always better, I think, to build around what a
player does really really good that's unique to them in
a lot of cases.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
So if you guess what I'd love to and for
listeners too, I joke the reason I have this podcast
is not actually to help anyone listening. It's just I'm
selfish and I'm a golf nutt and other people can
learn a line. Yeah, I get that, So everyone listening
has already heard me say that pretty much in every episode.
But for you guys, like, how do you go about
(14:50):
evaluating and finding what that superpower is? Are? Is there?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I know. I've talked to some people who are all
about three D. Some people are all all in onforce plates,
some people are it depends and what you know, what
are some people are just like I don't use any
of that. It's just launch monitors. And then there's even
old school guys or like I just watched ball Flight,
and ball Flight tells me everything.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
When you guys are approaching working with someone, how do
you identify those superpowers? Is I'm this I totally agree.
I'm the same way. It's you know, we're gonna make
somebody physically better, Like I'm not gonna you know, I'm
not gonna say, hey, your vertical power is amazing, so
let's not work on that at all. And all we're
gonna do is work on horrors like or whatever? Maybe right,
or only gonn work upper body even though your legs
(15:29):
are the most important thing and a year from now
your screw. Uh, how do you guys go about approaching
that with someone and identifying those and what tools are
you looking at using and you know, what's that what's
that approach look like?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So for us, we don't really we're fortunate that we
get to use the gas plates and dual force plates,
know them well years three D. And then of course
the video cameras, multiple angles of video cameras, all for
every swing at the same time. I mean, other than
(16:03):
what the players think, which we may not want to
get inside into, we can see what they're doing, and
it's always interesting because they're usually the worst resource for
what they're trying to do or think they're doing. It's
it's always fun when they you know, when two players
come in, two buddies come in, and you know they'll
(16:26):
split time in a lesson, you'll get the true story
from the buddy and you know you get the kind
of the golden story from the player, So it cuts through.
I mean, that's the thing about all that measurement is
it doesn't care about your feelings. It doesn't care what
you've tried to do or want to do. It just
shows what you do. And some players don't like that.
(16:46):
We like it because it helps give us up an
instant trust of where we want to start and then
where we want to move to.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, I totally agree being able to measure everything all
at once. So we've got the ball with the track man,
we've got the body with gears in the ground with
the gas. So we try to take all that information
and come up with a plan for each player individually.
We always say we teach the player in front of us.
We don't have a method that we teach, and I
think that's part of the reason why we've been able
(17:17):
to help. You're able to help more people that way.
If you have a method or a system, that's fine too,
But I feel like there's a certain job subset of
the population that you're not going to be able to help,
just depending on what like the physical ability or what
it is. And we try to teach in a way
that we can help everybody that comes through the door
(17:38):
in some way.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And there's about eight ten parameters that all good players
do strikingly very similar, and you know, we're kind of
looking for the red flags, like what's way out of
that parameter. And you know, once you see that and
you get the players feedback of what they're seeing on
the porest with ball flight and what they want to do,
(18:01):
then the puzzle pieces really start to fall in place.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You can't tease me like that. Mike can not tell
me what the eight parameters are. That that's just that's
just mean, man in.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Your head down, yeah, good, good, grip be the ball.
I mean, most of it is is centered around the body.
So you've got kind of a turn ratio in the backswing.
You've got the lateral movement of the body. You've got
when do the knees bend, when do the arms bend?
You got those sort of key things to where no
(18:34):
matter if you're a fader drawer, straight ball, high ball,
low ball hitter, you're doing I mean there's not a
there's not a lot of ways to rotate the pelvis
in the backswing, a lot of ways to tilt the
pay this as you rotate it. So when you look
at the swing and kind of that detail, there's not
a million ways to do it. Now we all all
three of our swings are going to look different while
(18:54):
we still could accomplish those key parameters right to a t.
So it's it's it it's learning how to disassociate sometimes
what someone looks like they're doing versus what they're actually doing.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
That's so cool. I mean, that's I think when we
look at That's why I love hearing on the instructional side,
guys like yourselves that are that have kind of a
checklist or you know, you know, basically we call them
buckets for us, Like you know, on the mobility side,
like basically we think of the buckets, there's a mobility element,
there's a strength element, there's a power element. Then there's
(19:27):
absolutely we call it a transfer element. Right, So we
think of, you know, mobility wise, we know from all
of our research that you know that they don't have
the ability to rotate a certain amount and their hips,
their shoulders, their spine in their neck, they're gonna have
to compensate. We know that strength wise, upper body and
a lower body, there's vertical power and push power that
if they don't hit certain metrics then based on their
(19:49):
club ed speed, they're a higher injury risk, or they're
having to cheat somewhere else, or or we can say, hey,
you know, physically, you should you have the potential to
swing one hundred and ten miles an hour and you
are actually only swinging ninety five, right, And then that's
where you know, the transfer side of things comes in.
And so I think that's for us I'm very similar
in how we approach things that we have A I
don't I wouldn't say, I'd say we have a method
of evaluating in terms of like, these are the principles.
(20:12):
Maybe it's more principles is probably more more accurate, where hey,
these are these all these principles need to be present
in order for a body to move in a golf swing.
How you do that, it's going to be very different
where your superpower is made dictate where we go first.
But it sounds like you guys have a similar approach
kind of looking at those kind of corey things and
identifying which ones. Is that pretty accurate?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Absolutely? Yeah, you know we have kind of not a
not really a I wouldn't call it a written down
system that we go through, but we've been doing it
so long together. I'm thinking what he's thinking, he's thinking
what I'm thinking. When we look at a swing and
we just start with the lowest hanging fruit that can,
we trying to find the domino that topples the most
other dominoes, like the kind of master swing fall, because
(20:57):
you know, you start trying to get somebody to do
to me things at once eight are not going to
do any of them, and b you're probably not really
fixing the core swing fault at that point.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, and we are in the process of running it
down because we're we're we're doing a certification later this year,
early this year.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Oh no way, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, so we do need to do it.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Might be written down somewhere.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, I mean Sean and I have been doing it
together for so long that it's like when the players
says I'm fighting this, this or that, we'll just instinctively
pull up those key parameters that we cause those issues
and go to it. But yeah, it's a it's you're
exactly right. But the buckets are a great way to
describe it.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, Mike, you just keep dropping breadcrumbs and then you
don't give me the answer. You don't you don't leave
me to grandmother's house. You tell me the they eight concepts.
You left me hanging. You guys are doing a certification.
That's awesome, man. Yeah, what's.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, we buke about three corps away through just the
beta testing phase where rolling it out to just a
few instructors right now just to get feedback.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
That's amazing. Well, you know, let us know if we
can help. That's so cool. Yeah, that's that's we're all about.
We were actually we have a whole internal learning management
system that we built.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Really.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Oh yeah, I wasn't lying when I said we're geeks.
We are absolute nerds here. But uh yeah, that's that's
so cool that you guys are doing that. I think
that to me always speaks to somebody at a level
where the understanding where you know, because I've always heard
like the smartest guy in the room can dumb it
down to the smallest, like the simplest terms. So I
(22:35):
feel like when you start going through and creating certification
methods or you know, educational things where you can start
to describe complex thing like the golf swing is incredibly complex,
but when you can boil it down into the kind
of in a way simpleton terms that are like these
are the eight things that actually, you know, take everything
else out. These are the big eight that create the
most impact or whatever it may be. Like, that's so
(22:57):
cool for.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Us having a facility, I mean very much like you
you've got what thirty thirty people working with you.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Now, yeah, we've got thirty people here in Raleigh, and yeah,
another twenty or so around the country and.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
That all you've got more people working with you.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Amazing, how much more work gets done? Yeah, yeah, exactly,
it doesn't exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
What does too. It was easy to keep in our
hand now. You know, my wife always said, you know,
people can't read your mind, don't chance.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well, we just need we just need the AI that
has that capability to come out.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Mike.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
That's that's what I'm waiting for. That's right, guys. I
wanted to dive into one of my the kind of
the cool things that I'm seeing on your guys YouTube
and the proverse and videos and you guys have met
talked about it, but the player perspective, and I think
that's been a really cool thing. I know a lot
just in house, We've got a lot of clients come
up and they that like resonates with them and they're like,
(23:48):
oh yeah, look at this, Like it clicked for me finally,
I was just curious, like, where did you guys come
up with that like that? So it seems so simple,
but it's so brilliant.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
We were playing around with yeah, well yeah, we were
playing around with some frame of reference stuff in their
own head, like imagine if gears would you leave the
body alone and show exactly just what the arms did
if nothing else happened, because I feel like the golf
swing is such an illusion when you start filming it
and there's rotation and that that skews what's happening because
(24:18):
things start to go behind you. And if you just
drill it down to okay, what is actually going on
with just this one segment of the body. Okay, the
arms go up, they go down, and then they go
up again, and you show somebody that they're like, oh,
that makes complete sense now, and that those for the reference.
(24:39):
For those frame of reference videos, We've had so many
people come in and say, I finally understood what my
arms are supposed to do or whatever it is during
the swing, just because they could parse out just that
one part of the swing and work on it and
then blend it together again. So so yeah, I mean
that's gone gone over pretty well with our audience.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
It that's just it was just we're watching it before too.
I was like, oh my god, I was obviously looking
at a bunch of videos and yeah, I had my
research director, we're all golf nuts here, let me he
has a super steep swing, and oh yeah, the reference
of the hands immediately he's out to the bay. I'm like,
you're having any fish watching the video?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
No one at that point.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Absolutely go ahead, Mike, I cut you off.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I'm sorry. Like for us, if we could wave a
magic wand which we may be able to do in
a couple of years, like you said, when a a
perfect three D system would be to capture what the
player does and then be able to turn off joints,
elbow binds, or knee bends or rotations and just isolate
(25:52):
the movement, like Sean was saying, of different body parts
to really see because we only see the golf swing
from that one camera or two camera perspective that never moves,
and it's it's really skewed of what how we perceive
were moving. So that that was something.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
That we spent a lot of time, effort, and resources
and creating a three D system that can take the
raw data from gears and and create those for the
player perspectives.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I thought that was so cool to me. It's almost
like it's almost like just modeling, like all right, what
if this, Like if if nothing else moved and we
just did that, what would happen?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Right?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And that three D like that Yeah, the idea came from.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's funny you said that, you know, the little wooden
figure you can get an Ikea, yeah, a little yeah guy,
that's where it came from. We were we were talking
about something I think it was, and we kind of
moved that figure around and said, okay, now look where
the arms are. That looks weird. That's that really where
the arms are? And yeah, that's kind of where it
started from.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
That's that's so good. Funny, like the simplest thing sometimes
just like click in your life. Oh well, it's a
simple way to talk about it. That makes a lot
of sense.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
So simple people exactly, I want to.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Talk you know, I want to get into the the
in personal facility you guys just just put together. But
before we do that, obviously you have a huge online
presence obviously you know YouTube, and then you have your
your website as well. The you know, I'm always curious
how how constructors work with people online. We have a
big online that's the biggest part of our business at
this point is working with golfers on the fitness side online.
(27:28):
I'm always curious to hear how you guys approach and
it's interesting you guys are literally unique of that. That's
kind of like where a lot of it started and
then you went to the in person. A lot of
the other bros out there kind of start like, you know,
in person, I'm gonna try online. So I'm really curious
to ask you guys like how that transition, like how
did you start online? How do you guys work online?
And then how has that influenced maybe how you've gone
(27:50):
in person. It's just it's very interesting. You guys have
kind of done it the reverse the way that most
people have.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, No, we were both teaching. I mean I've been
teaching golf for twenty five probably almost twenty five years now,
so we taught a long time before we decided to
go online. So we had the experience of teaching and
then we took it took it online. What do you think,
like ten years ago we started.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
That's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, and before everyone else.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, we jumped in pretty early. And you know, for
me it was and probably Mike too, if I don't
mean to speak speak for him, but just a natural
transition transition. It's like, Okay, I'm just looking at a
face on in the down the line video. As long
as your student is filming the swing from the correct angles.
It's just me standing there giving a normal golf lesson.
(28:38):
A lot of our stuff is a voiceover. We don't
do a ton of FaceTime lessons. We could, we just
haven't really gone there the way we set up our business.
But no, someone sends in a swing, face on and
down the line, we do a voiceover, we send it
back to him, And for me it was just kind
of I like it actually because I feel like I
(28:58):
can take my time and give it really good lesson.
I don't have to hurry. The person's out in front
of me right there hitting balls and looking at me
when they hit a bad one, and they just, you know,
let's just focus on what you need to do here,
two or three things. Maybe a five ten minute voiceover
sent it back to them, and that's how we got
started with online lessons.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, no, I would say the if you I don't
know if the advantage is the right word, like I
was saying earlier. We never done three D without video
being captured at the same time, so our eyes have
gotten so used to seeing the two kind of intermingled
where you start to see video quite a bit differently
(29:38):
when you know where the things are in three D.
And every coach that we know of, Scott being a
big example of that, who uses three D regularly say
they are much better at seeing what happens on video
because of it. So that's you know, we're not giving
We're not telling a player your hips are forty five,
nothing like that. You can just see those big eight,
(30:01):
big ten elements so much better. I'm having seen so
much three D on video now, and it makes for
a really highly transferable golf lesson when you never have
to actually meet the player or get to meet the player.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I always find similar on the on the virtuals. I
always joke that our virtual clients actually get more communication
with their coaches than the guys who come in twice
a week for an hour, because they get seven days
a week whenever they wants videos back and forth.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, it's those little small touches can be better than
the long sessions in our opinion one.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Hundred percent, especially like you said, you're getting time to
look at the videos. I think the advantage for you
guys too haven't seen so much three D. To your point, Mike,
like it's almost like like a beautiful mind right where
you kind of envisionally seeing like seeing the numbers, seeing
the numbers like, oh, I know what's occurring here. But
I think there's an advantage to your point. You know,
there's you know, the whole thing of ten thousand hours
and you know, to be able to see that money
(30:56):
three D swings and being able to pattern recognize put
things in bucket. I mean, that's going to get a
huge advantage to the value of online. Have you guys
seen the online side of things evolve? I'm assuming over
the last ten years is camera quality and phones and
all those have gotten better, And do you feel like
it's just gotten better kind of year over year?
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I guess seeing the online side of things, I.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Think the player has gotten I mean at first it
was you know, kind of like hitting off a map
versus hitting off grass. Yeah, like nobody wanted to hit
off a mat. Ever, because the mats were so bad. Now,
especially with the lockdown, I mean, now it's kind of like, Okay,
practicing indoors no problem. In fact, we're of the opinion
(31:37):
that you're going to get better mechanically practicing indoors than
you will just go into a driving range or there's
no accountability the same as I mean, the camera in
your pocket now is amazing. Long as you set it
up correctly, you're going to get very good video.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, no, that's true. I think that people are getting
more used to taking on lessons. They're more open to it,
and their cameras have gotten so good, and some of
these apps are coming out aren't quite there yet. But
I think if things keep getting better with the with
the AI and whatever else goes into making these single
camera apps more accurate, I think it'll just keep improving
(32:17):
and improving as we go forward, which is good for us.
We want them to succeed because that that's that's better
for us because we've been teaching with three D for
so long, we're used to it. So I think it's
just going to keep getting better.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I'll keep with the theme and kind of give you breadcrumbs.
We get a lot of early access to apps, and
there's two in particular. One A practice app is unbelievable
for giving you feedback while you're actually practicing. It's not
it's it's in a very limited beta right now, but
(32:51):
when it when it goes wide, it's going to be insane.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
It's gonna be really good. Yeah, this is this is
going to be quite something. We're getting ready, it's gonna
be launching here probably in the next month.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, well, Mike, I mean you definitely
are getting the award for the most open loops created
on an episode.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, baby, Mike's got a hidden talent.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You are a natural born marketer. My friend, curiosity, Curiosity.
Speaking of curiosity, I'm curious about the new location you
guys opened. So I know you guys are doing golf
schools now I think like, like, like, what was the
what was the impetus to open up the spot, and
like where is it? What's in there? Like like tell
me all about it.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
So a few years ago we started kicking around the
idea of having our own indoor place where we could
have not only students come in to take lessons, but
also have golfers come in and practice and train and
hit balls and have access to the technology that maybe
they normally wouldn't have access to, whether at their house
(33:56):
they can't afford your on track man fifty thousand dollars simulator,
or they go to the range and there's no feedback
with radar or launch monitor or video or anything. We said, well,
let's maybe we could build something indoors that we track
golfers to come in either just join the practice or
take lessons or get fit for clubs. And we just
(34:16):
kept throwing it around, and you know, ideas all right,
if you keep talking about it, sometimes they just kind
of come to fruition. So we just kept putting one
front of the other. We found a place. We designed it.
We got with track Man and with another guy that
we used to install me on Trot by the way,
he's the best in the business. And we had it built.
(34:37):
We've got eight hitting bays and then a ninth really
big bay that's like the flagship bay where we do
all our videos video, we shoot all our content there.
We do the Gears lessons in there, and yeah, I
mean it's just hard to believe, but boof, it's it
just kind of came to fruition. And we've been open
(34:59):
on a year and a half now and it's rocking
and rolling. We got a full time club fitter, we
got a place to build clubs now, so he's starting
to get busy. We've got two instructors that we hired
under us, and we have our golf schools come through,
and I think we're probably the first. I don't I
can't say this, I don't know for sure, but one
of the first instead of instructors to have a school
(35:22):
kind of based indoors and then we go outdoors for
just a small portion of it. We kind of flip
flop the model. So they come in, they fly to
Florida to stay indoors, which is kind of funny to think.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Smart in the summer.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, and they love it because they each one of
them gets a bay the whole time, video cameras the
whole time, track man numbers the whole time. We're going
around helping them and they get a lot more out
of it than just taking them to a driving range
and letting them beat balls. And the amount of improvement
that you can get and this is a picture of
the golf school as well, by the way, the amount
(35:56):
of provement you can get in a two and a
half day golf school, well, I'll put our school up
against anybody just because of the fact of how much
feedback they're getting during that time instead of just on
the golf course or range just hitting ball after ball
kind of mindlessly.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
And the schools are just four golfers for us too.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, it's like, really that small of a ratio. Wow,
that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
It's highly to keep.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
It that way. Yeah, and it's kind of fun too
because the golfers they kind of create their own force.
So when they become friends and we have a few
have come back as a group to do a golf school,
So it's kind of a nice to everybody the camaraderie
that comes from a smaller group as well. So we're
having fun with it. We we we host one every
(36:42):
month towards the end of the month, and we just
rolled out twenty twenty five dates. So if you're listening
you want to check it out, go to our website
and Athleticmotiongolf dot com and check it out.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
We'd love to have you link in the show notes too.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Facility is for anyone, not just you don't have to
be getting a lesson to come in there, so.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
You can just come in to hit balls. It's got
a semi private country club.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
We were amassing such a collection of tech and we
were spending so much money on all the tools that
that would come out, and it was like when we
weren't there, they were just sitting in the dark. So
we wanted to you know, a place where guys could
come and girls. We have families that join where they
could take advantage of a tech where you know, an
(37:28):
arm and a leg some of this stuff. You know
how expensive all this stuff is. Unfortunately, I do you
just come in for a munthly membership or hourly and
take advantage of it all?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
So cool and so yeah, I mean I have to imagine,
you know, to your point on getting that feedback that quick.
I mean, it's basic learning, right. The more the quicker
the feedback loop, the more adjustments and whatnot you can get.
And so when they're coming, I'm assuming they're getting ball data,
swing data, their video. I mean it's literally sounds like
it's everything.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, So we run them through, We run them through everything,
you know. Yeah, the first the first day they come,
like a half day basically, they go all through, They
go through gears in the forest, plate and track me
in and get like a baseline assessment on the first day.
And then the next two days it's all day of
working on the things in their swing that need help,
(38:14):
not just like a blanket. Here's our swing method. So
each person has an individual plan at the golf school
even though it's a group, So I think that's why
they've they've done well. We've sold out every single school
we've had since we opened it up a couple of
years ago, so it's worked out pretty well, and we
enjoyed doing them and meeting all the people that come in.
(38:36):
It's just been really fun for us too.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I mean, there can't be anything cooler than going to
spend two three days with four people who want to
get better and then actually.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yeah, they're sick of us by day three, but they
always tell us they have a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, that's awesome because I want to be respectful of
your time and I can't thank you enough for coming on,
you know, just so everyone. Obviously, we'll put the show
in the show notes the linked the to the golf schools,
So guys ever listening, go check those out. Where else
can people follow you? Where's the best places for them
to go?
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Oh, we're all the normal socials. YouTube is are probably
our biggest. That's where we, you know, put out the
long form content and then the clips of those will
be on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
We got to TikTok I think.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
We're going to start putting it on X are you
anywhere there's golfers. We try to have have aunt a
couple of dances on there.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Oh nice, I gotta go check those out. Cool. We'll
definitely make sure we get those all in the show
notes in the post production here. And you know, guys,
if if if you've listened to me ever before, which
most of you have, the data side, you know, I
can't I can't overstate how important that is. That's obviously
a big staple of what we do. You know, these
(39:52):
golf schools obviously are a place where you can get
data and but everything I would say, you know, go
check Sean and Mike out, particularly the YouTube side, the
long form stuff. You guys can really get some good,
good insights in terms of what they're talking about. And
you know, to what I said earlier on it, I
think it's a great place to go where you can
actually take very complex things and they get they break
They do a nice job of breaking them down. So
(40:13):
it's a very good augmentation to any of you guys
who maybe work with us or working on your fitness,
not sure what to do on the instructional side, go
check these guys out. So Sean, Mike, thanks so much
for hanging out with me today. It's been an absolute blast.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Guys, Thank yous, appreciate you.
Welcome to the golf in is momb Squad. My name
is Chris Finn. I'm your host, and today I'm excited
to have two guests with me. You know, hopefully you
have heard of Athletic Motion Golf. If you haven't, maybe
you haven't heard of YouTube either. I don't know, but
we have with us today that the two founders of
Athletic Motion Golf, micronad O'shan Webb. Super excited to have
(00:30):
you guys with me. It's not every day I get
to have two other absolute data geeks who do research
and look at numbers, particularly on the golf side. This
is really exciting for me. So welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you, body, appreciate you. Yeah, I'm excited to talk
to you for a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, for sure. So I want to start with you guys.
Put out a video recently on YouTube on your channel
and it's Athletic Motion Golf. He said, So YouTube is
yow you to tube dot com. Friend of you who
don't know what that is, I'm assuming everybody knows what
that is. Therefore, you obviously most of you probably know.
I thought Emotion Golf one of the recent ones that
you guys put out was the firing of the Hips video,
(01:09):
and I thought that was super interesting obviously coming from
the physical world, and obviously we get lots of questions
about why aren't my hips? You know, we test people's
hips and they don't move, and they're like, why are
my hips moving? And I thought one of the coolest
things that you guys talked about in that video was
the misconception of when people are getting the top that
like they have to fire their hips and they try
to move their hips super early and it causes all
(01:29):
these other issues in the golf swing. But I guess
for everyone listening, I'd love to just kind of hear
from you guys kind of the genesis, like where did
that idea for that video come from? And then we
can obviously vibe a little bit on like what you
guys are seeing with that and what the goals you know,
of telling people and sharing that information are.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, I think the I mean, all of our videos
come from what we see in lessons from players, and
you know that kind of ebbs and flows and certain
things come and you know kind of in fad and
certain things go out of fad. Uh. The hip thing
has been around when you say, Sean, it's been around
for probably as long as we've been teaching the game.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So I was a kid firing the hip since it
was just take it back and it all costs. Just
let your hips get wildly open as much as you
can in the first mill a second in the.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, the the idea of creating a big stretch in
the downswing, that's what we see trying to do and
it's just but it's not what we see from the data.
It's not what the best players are doing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Wait, so you're telling me that what you actually see
in data doesn't match with historically what the belief is
in golf. What that that's never happened before. That's that's
that's so cool. So so talk a little bit about
what you guys are seeing there because that's a huge
misconception that we see with tons of people that come
in to see us.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, you go ahead, go ahead, Sean.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I'll the start and say, you know, you want to
feel the maximum stretch and these good players is pretty
much right at the top of the ceram before the
club change the direction. You might see a little bit more,
but you want to you want to do the work
on the back swinging and get your stretch on the
back swing side instead of trying to get all of
the stretch between the upper and lower body on the downsling.
I'll let you take it from there, Mike.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah. I mean it's exactly what I was going to say,
that the stretch really takes place in the takeaway. Yeah,
like what we'll what we'll see a lot from golfers
and the golfers that come to us or you know,
we don't see a lot of you know, people that
have just taken.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Up the game.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
We see guys who've been in the game a while,
been fighting the same issues for a while, and like
you said, one of those is rotation. We'll see a
lot of hips and torso whether it's shoulders or chests
moving at just about a one to one ratio for
most of the early part of the backswing and then
you know, it'll kind of get to the top with
(03:56):
a little bit of separation, and then the player will
try to separate aren't in the downswing. What we see
from good golfers is the chest will kind of turn
to pelvis, so the chest is getting a big head
start right out of the gate that will pull on
the pelvis so by the time they get into the
top or near the top, they've created enough separation where
(04:17):
when the hips start first in the downswing, that essentially
carries everything around with it and there's not really any stretch.
Some players don't have a stretch at all in the
downswing once the club starts down.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So, just to repeat what I'm not the brightest guy
in the world, and there's probably people listening they're way
smarter than me. So the so what I'm hearing is
the idea of that quote unquote X factor stretch or
like you get to the top and then there's a
massive increase in the separation. Actually, and what you guys
are seeing is that most of that's happening basically before
(04:52):
you get to the top of the downswing, and then
basically while the hips are driving it, you're kind of
keeping that it's not necessarily increasing massively once that down
swing starts. Is is that what I'm hearing right rightactly?
And if you see somebody, because we see this all
the time, you know, the number one limitation we see
with guys physically is that their lead hip internal rotation,
their ability to rotate into their lead hip socks, right,
(05:14):
and so then they come in and you know, for
whatever reason they've come in distance or pain, we fix
their hip and then they'll go, I'm trying to fire
my hips. So literally this is like what they try
to do. What are the things that you guys see
if people are trying to do that, Like, what are
the I guess maybe the faults or the issues that
people start to run into with that misconception versus what
(05:35):
you're actually seeing better players do with the data.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It could be a thing. It just depends on how
they've kind of load the system up going back. But
they could fire their hips and get their arms really
stuck behind. They can fire their hips and come steep
over the top of the plane. Is a lot of
different things they could do because of that, and the
swing just tends to look fairly disjointed. Whether the torso
is hanging back so far behind.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
The lower body, Yeah, I would say probably day in
day out, especially golfers over fifty, they're going to be
overly turned with the pelvis and the backswing, So any
firing of the hip to start the downswing carries everything
out and over. You see a lot of steepness in
the downswing from that movement.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So basically if they overturn, that's actually makes a lot
of sense, right because a lot of the you know,
the I guess discussion around particularly that fifty plus golfers,
you got to get more rotation, gotta get more rotation.
So now you're saying what we're seeing, what you guys
are seeing is they're actually over rotating. And then that
can you explain how does that drive the arms out
farther in front of the downswing.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It's like a rubber band. So if you stretch Mac,
stretch that rubber band in the backswing, and you know,
even in lessons, we'll try to talk to the golfer
when he's at the top, but it's kind of like
your dressed on and then that first move down whatever
it is that moves, everything's kind of like that rubber
band snap and everything's going out and then they'll try
(06:58):
to throw in some tilt aid or whatever to manage it.
But it's, Uh, you hit the nail on the head
when you talked about you know, there's such an equating
of more backswing rotation with more distance and we all
have to still play in that you know, quarter of
a second down swing, and it's just difficult, especially as
(07:19):
we get older, to you know, unwind our Pelvis one
hundred and twenty degrees in a quarter of a second.
Best players in the world aren't trying to do it.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Because they're not trying to do it, we probably shouldn't
try to do it, right that, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
They usually have a better fitness team around them than
we did.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well, And I'm curious, you know, obviously you know, we're
immediately diving into the data, which everyone who listens here
loves that. Yeah, for the listeners who maybe don't know
you guys, I'd love to kind of understand your journey
a little bit of like how did you guys arrive
into the you guess are obviously the gears, the Sam
Putt Lab, the you know what's kind of the genesis
for you guys, you know, to where you are obviously
(07:57):
you know, quite the influential brand and two guys in
golf in terms of experts and helping people understand. And
we've got a number of people who work with us
who've gone to you or follow your guys stuff for
religiously the number of times we get so this is
the latest video from AMG and like, can I do this.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Is my body?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Is my is my body able to do this?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Right?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
That's easy for us, right, Like I'm not your swing coach,
but you know, if you're trying to do that, your body,
like your hip moves five degrees, dude, So no, you
can't do that yet. Two more weeks and then you
should be fine. But for you guys, like, what's the
journey been, Like, how did you guys? You know from
reading about you guys and you guys have known each
other for a while, but we'd love to hear a
little bit about your guys journey, you know, professionally together.
And then obviously you know where did the love for
(08:38):
the data and objective measurement come from?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I'll go first. I mean, most of the reason that
we have all the tech we have is first of
all for our own golf games.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I mean, yeah, I mean we've got something.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So I still play, Mike still plays, and we still
hit balls all the time. And I think it's part
of the fun of being around the game the way
we are, even though we're not playing it professionally, we
get to still be around it all the time and
continue to try to work on our own games. And
when you work on your own game and figure things out,
we're able to help more students. So I think it
(09:19):
was almost like a flywheel where I wanted to get better.
Then I would learn something about my swing, and I
would be able to help more players and more players,
and it just kept going like that, and I would
try to keep improving my ability so I could help
almost anybody that came to me. I feel like now
I have a pretty good shot of knowing what they're
doing wrong, just from the sheer fact that I've tried
everything on my own swing and I've done everything wrong
(09:42):
at some point and got my swing now pretty much
to where I want it. So, I mean that's kind
of the reason it all got started. And then we
just wanted to help as many people as we could,
so we tried to put all that information on the internet.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, I mean that's how we met fifteen or so
years ago in Long Island. We were both up there
to buy a three D system, and you know, that's
when we first met, and then we got to become friends,
and then we had, you know, the idea of you know, hey,
I'd like to do some online lessons, you know, because
(10:18):
the coaching golf model is such a bad model where
you know, one hour for one hours of you know,
payment is such a tough model if you get sick
or if you you know, want to spend time with
the family and all that. So we were just looking
for ways to you know, try to take advantage of
the Internet. And we didn't have any idea of what
(10:39):
we were doing. So we just figured we would, you know,
join up and if we really screwed it up, it
would cost us half as much if we screwed it
up ourselves. So that was the master plan, is just
trying to minimize our our outside Yeah, smart one in
and then you know, we both from an athletic background.
(11:01):
Sean's played every sport growing up. Was a really good athlete,
good baseball player that was more basketball, football, and every
lesson you know that I had felt like every golf
lesson that I had felt like it was taking something
away from the athleticism that I kind of brought to
the table. And and you know, in the sake of
(11:23):
making better golf movements. And we you know, when we
started this, that was when that we'd already had force plates.
We reached using force plates, we'd already had the earlier
three D systems and we you know, so measurement was new,
but it was available, and we both jumped into it
because of our history, because of you know, all of
(11:44):
that kind of you know, golf instruction is essentially one concept,
passed down, passed down, passed down, and you know, it's
kind of like the game of phone tagers. Some of
it probably wasn't passed out fitness exactly. Yeah, so you know,
it was like the perfect time to do what we did,
with the measurement tools being available, the interest in it,
(12:07):
and then our backgrounds and in other sports was kind
of a perfect storm, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
So I'd love to hear, like, so explain the like,
I guess, the the process of you know, you guys,
are I had. I had a similar kind of story
of you know, I went to when I was starting
the our business here and I went to fifteen different
golf professionals at local clubs, and I got fifteen different lessons,
and I was like, this is wild because I'm pretty
sure I showed up at the same freaking swing every
(12:33):
single time, Like there's something wrong here, there's no assessment.
How did you guys? And obviously you had the frustration
of like the athleticism being restricted and obviously it's in
the name athletic motion golf. How did how have you
guys gone about, you know, ensuring that the people that
you work with, Like when you approach somebody coming into
work with you, whether it's online or iod, definitely got
to talk about the new facility you guys have in person.
(12:55):
We'll get to that. So stay tuned, people, because you
got you want to hear about that. But the like
when you have somebody come in, like, how are you
guys helping people in a way that you felt like,
what was the process of getting to this model where
you guys are at and how you approach working with
someone so that they can actually use their athleticism as
opposed to kind of trying to have to restrict it.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I mean, I think the main thing is, you know,
when you start measuring people, things stand out that we
call it someone superpower, Like Okay, are they're really good
at using the ground a certain way or their strong
movement in their upper body through the ball, or we
try to figure out what that is or what sports
they played and kind of build the swing around what
they do. Really well, instead of trying to take that
(13:39):
away from a lot, which you agree, Mike, that's kind
of how we go about changing swings and helping people
instead of trying to just strip away everything that.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Came with I've yeah, one hundred percent agree. I've been
around Scott Hamilton for thirty years and I've always heard
him say, way before I ever thought about, you know,
teaching golf, always heard him say, you never want to
cut Superman's cape off. I had no idea what that
meant until you're actually able to start measuring golfers and
(14:09):
trying to help golfers, and just about everyone does something
pretty darn well that if you're not careful, you can
diminish in an effort to try to make bad things better.
It's always better, I think, to build around what a
player does really really good that's unique to them in
a lot of cases.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
So if you guess what I'd love to and for
listeners too, I joke the reason I have this podcast
is not actually to help anyone listening. It's just I'm
selfish and I'm a golf nutt and other people can
learn a line. Yeah, I get that, So everyone listening
has already heard me say that pretty much in every episode.
But for you guys, like, how do you go about
(14:50):
evaluating and finding what that superpower is? Are? Is there?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I know. I've talked to some people who are all
about three D. Some people are all all in onforce plates,
some people are it depends and what you know, what
are some people are just like I don't use any
of that. It's just launch monitors. And then there's even
old school guys or like I just watched ball Flight,
and ball Flight tells me everything.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
When you guys are approaching working with someone, how do
you identify those superpowers? Is I'm this I totally agree.
I'm the same way. It's you know, we're gonna make
somebody physically better, Like I'm not gonna you know, I'm
not gonna say, hey, your vertical power is amazing, so
let's not work on that at all. And all we're
gonna do is work on horrors like or whatever? Maybe right,
or only gonn work upper body even though your legs
(15:29):
are the most important thing and a year from now
your screw. Uh, how do you guys go about approaching
that with someone and identifying those and what tools are
you looking at using and you know, what's that what's
that approach look like?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So for us, we don't really we're fortunate that we
get to use the gas plates and dual force plates,
know them well years three D. And then of course
the video cameras, multiple angles of video cameras, all for
every swing at the same time. I mean, other than
(16:03):
what the players think, which we may not want to
get inside into, we can see what they're doing, and
it's always interesting because they're usually the worst resource for
what they're trying to do or think they're doing. It's
it's always fun when they you know, when two players
come in, two buddies come in, and you know they'll
(16:26):
split time in a lesson, you'll get the true story
from the buddy and you know you get the kind
of the golden story from the player, So it cuts through.
I mean, that's the thing about all that measurement is
it doesn't care about your feelings. It doesn't care what
you've tried to do or want to do. It just
shows what you do. And some players don't like that.
(16:46):
We like it because it helps give us up an
instant trust of where we want to start and then
where we want to move to.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, I totally agree being able to measure everything all
at once. So we've got the ball with the track man,
we've got the body with gears in the ground with
the gas. So we try to take all that information
and come up with a plan for each player individually.
We always say we teach the player in front of us.
We don't have a method that we teach, and I
think that's part of the reason why we've been able
(17:17):
to help. You're able to help more people that way.
If you have a method or a system, that's fine too,
But I feel like there's a certain job subset of
the population that you're not going to be able to help,
just depending on what like the physical ability or what
it is. And we try to teach in a way
that we can help everybody that comes through the door
(17:38):
in some way.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And there's about eight ten parameters that all good players
do strikingly very similar, and you know, we're kind of
looking for the red flags, like what's way out of
that parameter. And you know, once you see that and
you get the players feedback of what they're seeing on
the porest with ball flight and what they want to do,
(18:01):
then the puzzle pieces really start to fall in place.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You can't tease me like that. Mike can not tell
me what the eight parameters are. That that's just that's
just mean, man in.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Your head down, yeah, good, good, grip be the ball.
I mean, most of it is is centered around the body.
So you've got kind of a turn ratio in the backswing.
You've got the lateral movement of the body. You've got
when do the knees bend, when do the arms bend?
You got those sort of key things to where no
(18:34):
matter if you're a fader drawer, straight ball, high ball,
low ball hitter, you're doing I mean there's not a
there's not a lot of ways to rotate the pelvis
in the backswing, a lot of ways to tilt the
pay this as you rotate it. So when you look
at the swing and kind of that detail, there's not
a million ways to do it. Now we all all
three of our swings are going to look different while
(18:54):
we still could accomplish those key parameters right to a t.
So it's it's it it's learning how to disassociate sometimes
what someone looks like they're doing versus what they're actually doing.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
That's so cool. I mean, that's I think when we
look at That's why I love hearing on the instructional side,
guys like yourselves that are that have kind of a
checklist or you know, you know, basically we call them
buckets for us, Like you know, on the mobility side,
like basically we think of the buckets, there's a mobility element,
there's a strength element, there's a power element. Then there's
(19:27):
absolutely we call it a transfer element. Right, So we
think of, you know, mobility wise, we know from all
of our research that you know that they don't have
the ability to rotate a certain amount and their hips,
their shoulders, their spine in their neck, they're gonna have
to compensate. We know that strength wise, upper body and
a lower body, there's vertical power and push power that
if they don't hit certain metrics then based on their
(19:49):
club ed speed, they're a higher injury risk, or they're
having to cheat somewhere else, or or we can say, hey,
you know, physically, you should you have the potential to
swing one hundred and ten miles an hour and you
are actually only swinging ninety five, right, And then that's
where you know, the transfer side of things comes in.
And so I think that's for us I'm very similar
in how we approach things that we have A I
don't I wouldn't say, I'd say we have a method
of evaluating in terms of like, these are the principles.
(20:12):
Maybe it's more principles is probably more more accurate, where hey,
these are these all these principles need to be present
in order for a body to move in a golf swing.
How you do that, it's going to be very different
where your superpower is made dictate where we go first.
But it sounds like you guys have a similar approach
kind of looking at those kind of corey things and
identifying which ones. Is that pretty accurate?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Absolutely? Yeah, you know we have kind of not a
not really a I wouldn't call it a written down
system that we go through, but we've been doing it
so long together. I'm thinking what he's thinking, he's thinking
what I'm thinking. When we look at a swing and
we just start with the lowest hanging fruit that can,
we trying to find the domino that topples the most
other dominoes, like the kind of master swing fall, because
(20:57):
you know, you start trying to get somebody to do
to me things at once eight are not going to
do any of them, and b you're probably not really
fixing the core swing fault at that point.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, and we are in the process of running it
down because we're we're we're doing a certification later this year,
early this year.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Oh no way, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, so we do need to do it.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Might be written down somewhere.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, I mean Sean and I have been doing it
together for so long that it's like when the players
says I'm fighting this, this or that, we'll just instinctively
pull up those key parameters that we cause those issues
and go to it. But yeah, it's a it's you're
exactly right. But the buckets are a great way to
describe it.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, Mike, you just keep dropping breadcrumbs and then you
don't give me the answer. You don't you don't leave
me to grandmother's house. You tell me the they eight concepts.
You left me hanging. You guys are doing a certification.
That's awesome, man. Yeah, what's.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, we buke about three corps away through just the
beta testing phase where rolling it out to just a
few instructors right now just to get feedback.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
That's amazing. Well, you know, let us know if we
can help. That's so cool. Yeah, that's that's we're all about.
We were actually we have a whole internal learning management
system that we built.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Really.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Oh yeah, I wasn't lying when I said we're geeks.
We are absolute nerds here. But uh yeah, that's that's
so cool that you guys are doing that. I think
that to me always speaks to somebody at a level
where the understanding where you know, because I've always heard
like the smartest guy in the room can dumb it
down to the smallest, like the simplest terms. So I
(22:35):
feel like when you start going through and creating certification
methods or you know, educational things where you can start
to describe complex thing like the golf swing is incredibly complex,
but when you can boil it down into the kind
of in a way simpleton terms that are like these
are the eight things that actually, you know, take everything
else out. These are the big eight that create the
most impact or whatever it may be. Like, that's so
(22:57):
cool for.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Us having a facility, I mean very much like you
you've got what thirty thirty people working with you.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Now, yeah, we've got thirty people here in Raleigh, and yeah,
another twenty or so around the country and.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
That all you've got more people working with you.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Amazing, how much more work gets done? Yeah, yeah, exactly,
it doesn't exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
What does too. It was easy to keep in our
hand now. You know, my wife always said, you know,
people can't read your mind, don't chance.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well, we just need we just need the AI that
has that capability to come out.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Mike.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
That's that's what I'm waiting for. That's right, guys. I
wanted to dive into one of my the kind of
the cool things that I'm seeing on your guys YouTube
and the proverse and videos and you guys have met
talked about it, but the player perspective, and I think
that's been a really cool thing. I know a lot
just in house, We've got a lot of clients come
up and they that like resonates with them and they're like,
(23:48):
oh yeah, look at this, Like it clicked for me finally,
I was just curious, like, where did you guys come
up with that like that? So it seems so simple,
but it's so brilliant.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
We were playing around with yeah, well yeah, we were
playing around with some frame of reference stuff in their
own head, like imagine if gears would you leave the
body alone and show exactly just what the arms did
if nothing else happened, because I feel like the golf
swing is such an illusion when you start filming it
and there's rotation and that that skews what's happening because
(24:18):
things start to go behind you. And if you just
drill it down to okay, what is actually going on
with just this one segment of the body. Okay, the
arms go up, they go down, and then they go
up again, and you show somebody that they're like, oh,
that makes complete sense now, and that those for the reference.
(24:39):
For those frame of reference videos, We've had so many
people come in and say, I finally understood what my
arms are supposed to do or whatever it is during
the swing, just because they could parse out just that
one part of the swing and work on it and
then blend it together again. So so yeah, I mean
that's gone gone over pretty well with our audience.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
It that's just it was just we're watching it before too.
I was like, oh my god, I was obviously looking
at a bunch of videos and yeah, I had my
research director, we're all golf nuts here, let me he
has a super steep swing, and oh yeah, the reference
of the hands immediately he's out to the bay. I'm like,
you're having any fish watching the video?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
No one at that point.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Absolutely go ahead, Mike, I cut you off.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I'm sorry. Like for us, if we could wave a
magic wand which we may be able to do in
a couple of years, like you said, when a a
perfect three D system would be to capture what the
player does and then be able to turn off joints,
elbow binds, or knee bends or rotations and just isolate
(25:52):
the movement, like Sean was saying, of different body parts
to really see because we only see the golf swing
from that one camera or two camera perspective that never moves,
and it's it's really skewed of what how we perceive
were moving. So that that was something.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
That we spent a lot of time, effort, and resources
and creating a three D system that can take the
raw data from gears and and create those for the
player perspectives.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I thought that was so cool to me. It's almost
like it's almost like just modeling, like all right, what
if this, Like if if nothing else moved and we
just did that, what would happen?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Right?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And that three D like that Yeah, the idea came from.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's funny you said that, you know, the little wooden
figure you can get an Ikea, yeah, a little yeah guy,
that's where it came from. We were we were talking
about something I think it was, and we kind of
moved that figure around and said, okay, now look where
the arms are. That looks weird. That's that really where
the arms are? And yeah, that's kind of where it
started from.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
That's that's so good. Funny, like the simplest thing sometimes
just like click in your life. Oh well, it's a
simple way to talk about it. That makes a lot
of sense.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
So simple people exactly, I want to.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Talk you know, I want to get into the the
in personal facility you guys just just put together. But
before we do that, obviously you have a huge online
presence obviously you know YouTube, and then you have your
your website as well. The you know, I'm always curious
how how constructors work with people online. We have a
big online that's the biggest part of our business at
this point is working with golfers on the fitness side online.
(27:28):
I'm always curious to hear how you guys approach and
it's interesting you guys are literally unique of that. That's
kind of like where a lot of it started and
then you went to the in person. A lot of
the other bros out there kind of start like, you know,
in person, I'm gonna try online. So I'm really curious
to ask you guys like how that transition, like how
did you start online? How do you guys work online?
And then how has that influenced maybe how you've gone
(27:50):
in person. It's just it's very interesting. You guys have
kind of done it the reverse the way that most
people have.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, No, we were both teaching. I mean I've been
teaching golf for twenty five probably almost twenty five years now,
so we taught a long time before we decided to
go online. So we had the experience of teaching and
then we took it took it online. What do you think,
like ten years ago we started.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
That's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, and before everyone else.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, we jumped in pretty early. And you know, for
me it was and probably Mike too, if I don't
mean to speak speak for him, but just a natural
transition transition. It's like, Okay, I'm just looking at a
face on in the down the line video. As long
as your student is filming the swing from the correct angles.
It's just me standing there giving a normal golf lesson.
(28:38):
A lot of our stuff is a voiceover. We don't
do a ton of FaceTime lessons. We could, we just
haven't really gone there the way we set up our business.
But no, someone sends in a swing, face on and
down the line, we do a voiceover, we send it
back to him, And for me it was just kind
of I like it actually because I feel like I
(28:58):
can take my time and give it really good lesson.
I don't have to hurry. The person's out in front
of me right there hitting balls and looking at me
when they hit a bad one, and they just, you know,
let's just focus on what you need to do here,
two or three things. Maybe a five ten minute voiceover
sent it back to them, and that's how we got
started with online lessons.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, no, I would say the if you I don't
know if the advantage is the right word, like I
was saying earlier. We never done three D without video
being captured at the same time, so our eyes have
gotten so used to seeing the two kind of intermingled
where you start to see video quite a bit differently
(29:38):
when you know where the things are in three D.
And every coach that we know of, Scott being a
big example of that, who uses three D regularly say
they are much better at seeing what happens on video
because of it. So that's you know, we're not giving
We're not telling a player your hips are forty five,
nothing like that. You can just see those big eight,
(30:01):
big ten elements so much better. I'm having seen so
much three D on video now, and it makes for
a really highly transferable golf lesson when you never have
to actually meet the player or get to meet the player.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I always find similar on the on the virtuals. I
always joke that our virtual clients actually get more communication
with their coaches than the guys who come in twice
a week for an hour, because they get seven days
a week whenever they wants videos back and forth.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, it's those little small touches can be better than
the long sessions in our opinion one.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Hundred percent, especially like you said, you're getting time to
look at the videos. I think the advantage for you
guys too haven't seen so much three D. To your point, Mike,
like it's almost like like a beautiful mind right where
you kind of envisionally seeing like seeing the numbers, seeing
the numbers like, oh, I know what's occurring here. But
I think there's an advantage to your point. You know,
there's you know, the whole thing of ten thousand hours
and you know, to be able to see that money
(30:56):
three D swings and being able to pattern recognize put
things in bucket. I mean, that's going to get a
huge advantage to the value of online. Have you guys
seen the online side of things evolve? I'm assuming over
the last ten years is camera quality and phones and
all those have gotten better, And do you feel like
it's just gotten better kind of year over year?
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I guess seeing the online side of things, I.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Think the player has gotten I mean at first it
was you know, kind of like hitting off a map
versus hitting off grass. Yeah, like nobody wanted to hit
off a mat. Ever, because the mats were so bad. Now,
especially with the lockdown, I mean, now it's kind of like, Okay,
practicing indoors no problem. In fact, we're of the opinion
(31:37):
that you're going to get better mechanically practicing indoors than
you will just go into a driving range or there's
no accountability the same as I mean, the camera in
your pocket now is amazing. Long as you set it
up correctly, you're going to get very good video.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, no, that's true. I think that people are getting
more used to taking on lessons. They're more open to it,
and their cameras have gotten so good, and some of
these apps are coming out aren't quite there yet. But
I think if things keep getting better with the with
the AI and whatever else goes into making these single
camera apps more accurate, I think it'll just keep improving
(32:17):
and improving as we go forward, which is good for us.
We want them to succeed because that that's that's better
for us because we've been teaching with three D for
so long, we're used to it. So I think it's
just going to keep getting better.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I'll keep with the theme and kind of give you breadcrumbs.
We get a lot of early access to apps, and
there's two in particular. One A practice app is unbelievable
for giving you feedback while you're actually practicing. It's not
it's it's in a very limited beta right now, but
(32:51):
when it when it goes wide, it's going to be insane.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
It's gonna be really good. Yeah, this is this is
going to be quite something. We're getting ready, it's gonna
be launching here probably in the next month.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, well, Mike, I mean you definitely
are getting the award for the most open loops created
on an episode.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, baby, Mike's got a hidden talent.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You are a natural born marketer. My friend, curiosity, Curiosity.
Speaking of curiosity, I'm curious about the new location you
guys opened. So I know you guys are doing golf
schools now I think like, like, like, what was the
what was the impetus to open up the spot, and
like where is it? What's in there? Like like tell
me all about it.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
So a few years ago we started kicking around the
idea of having our own indoor place where we could
have not only students come in to take lessons, but
also have golfers come in and practice and train and
hit balls and have access to the technology that maybe
they normally wouldn't have access to, whether at their house
(33:56):
they can't afford your on track man fifty thousand dollars simulator,
or they go to the range and there's no feedback
with radar or launch monitor or video or anything. We said, well,
let's maybe we could build something indoors that we track
golfers to come in either just join the practice or
take lessons or get fit for clubs. And we just
(34:16):
kept throwing it around, and you know, ideas all right,
if you keep talking about it, sometimes they just kind
of come to fruition. So we just kept putting one
front of the other. We found a place. We designed it.
We got with track Man and with another guy that
we used to install me on Trot by the way,
he's the best in the business. And we had it built.
(34:37):
We've got eight hitting bays and then a ninth really
big bay that's like the flagship bay where we do
all our videos video, we shoot all our content there.
We do the Gears lessons in there, and yeah, I
mean it's just hard to believe, but boof, it's it
just kind of came to fruition. And we've been open
(34:59):
on a year and a half now and it's rocking
and rolling. We got a full time club fitter, we
got a place to build clubs now, so he's starting
to get busy. We've got two instructors that we hired
under us, and we have our golf schools come through,
and I think we're probably the first. I don't I
can't say this, I don't know for sure, but one
of the first instead of instructors to have a school
(35:22):
kind of based indoors and then we go outdoors for
just a small portion of it. We kind of flip
flop the model. So they come in, they fly to
Florida to stay indoors, which is kind of funny to think.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Smart in the summer.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, and they love it because they each one of
them gets a bay the whole time, video cameras the
whole time, track man numbers the whole time. We're going
around helping them and they get a lot more out
of it than just taking them to a driving range
and letting them beat balls. And the amount of improvement
that you can get and this is a picture of
the golf school as well, by the way, the amount
(35:56):
of provement you can get in a two and a
half day golf school, well, I'll put our school up
against anybody just because of the fact of how much
feedback they're getting during that time instead of just on
the golf course or range just hitting ball after ball
kind of mindlessly.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
And the schools are just four golfers for us too.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, it's like, really that small of a ratio. Wow,
that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
It's highly to keep.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
It that way. Yeah, and it's kind of fun too
because the golfers they kind of create their own force.
So when they become friends and we have a few
have come back as a group to do a golf school,
So it's kind of a nice to everybody the camaraderie
that comes from a smaller group as well. So we're
having fun with it. We we we host one every
(36:42):
month towards the end of the month, and we just
rolled out twenty twenty five dates. So if you're listening
you want to check it out, go to our website
and Athleticmotiongolf dot com and check it out.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
We'd love to have you link in the show notes too.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Facility is for anyone, not just you don't have to
be getting a lesson to come in there, so.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
You can just come in to hit balls. It's got
a semi private country club.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
We were amassing such a collection of tech and we
were spending so much money on all the tools that
that would come out, and it was like when we
weren't there, they were just sitting in the dark. So
we wanted to you know, a place where guys could
come and girls. We have families that join where they
could take advantage of a tech where you know, an
(37:28):
arm and a leg some of this stuff. You know
how expensive all this stuff is. Unfortunately, I do you
just come in for a munthly membership or hourly and
take advantage of it all?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
So cool and so yeah, I mean I have to imagine,
you know, to your point on getting that feedback that quick.
I mean, it's basic learning, right. The more the quicker
the feedback loop, the more adjustments and whatnot you can get.
And so when they're coming, I'm assuming they're getting ball data,
swing data, their video. I mean it's literally sounds like
it's everything.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, So we run them through, We run them through everything,
you know. Yeah, the first the first day they come,
like a half day basically, they go all through, They
go through gears in the forest, plate and track me
in and get like a baseline assessment on the first day.
And then the next two days it's all day of
working on the things in their swing that need help,
(38:14):
not just like a blanket. Here's our swing method. So
each person has an individual plan at the golf school
even though it's a group, So I think that's why
they've they've done well. We've sold out every single school
we've had since we opened it up a couple of
years ago, so it's worked out pretty well, and we
enjoyed doing them and meeting all the people that come in.
(38:36):
It's just been really fun for us too.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I mean, there can't be anything cooler than going to
spend two three days with four people who want to
get better and then actually.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yeah, they're sick of us by day three, but they
always tell us they have a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, that's awesome because I want to be respectful of
your time and I can't thank you enough for coming on,
you know, just so everyone. Obviously, we'll put the show
in the show notes the linked the to the golf schools,
So guys ever listening, go check those out. Where else
can people follow you? Where's the best places for them
to go?
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Oh, we're all the normal socials. YouTube is are probably
our biggest. That's where we, you know, put out the
long form content and then the clips of those will
be on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
We got to TikTok I think.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
We're going to start putting it on X are you
anywhere there's golfers. We try to have have aunt a
couple of dances on there.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Oh nice, I gotta go check those out. Cool. We'll
definitely make sure we get those all in the show
notes in the post production here. And you know, guys,
if if if you've listened to me ever before, which
most of you have, the data side, you know, I
can't I can't overstate how important that is. That's obviously
a big staple of what we do. You know, these
(39:52):
golf schools obviously are a place where you can get
data and but everything I would say, you know, go
check Sean and Mike out, particularly the YouTube side, the
long form stuff. You guys can really get some good,
good insights in terms of what they're talking about. And
you know, to what I said earlier on it, I
think it's a great place to go where you can
actually take very complex things and they get they break
They do a nice job of breaking them down. So
(40:13):
it's a very good augmentation to any of you guys
who maybe work with us or working on your fitness,
not sure what to do on the instructional side, go
check these guys out. So Sean, Mike, thanks so much
for hanging out with me today. It's been an absolute blast.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Guys, Thank yous, appreciate you.
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