January 29, 2025 • 32 mins
Europe’s top golf performance coach, Karl Morris, has worked with six major champions and hundreds of tour players, helping them master the mental side of the game. In this episode, he shares how to train your mind like a pro, from building focus and resilience to developing mental routines that lead to lower scores. We discuss the four key phases of a round, the importance of offseason mental training, and how small changes—like the Red Dot—can have a huge impact on performance. Plus, Karl introduces Mind Caddie, a powerful app designed to help golfers strengthen their mental game. Whether you're an amateur or aspiring pro, this episode is packed with insights to sharpen your mind and improve your game. Connect with Karl: www.themindcaddie.com @karlmorrismindfactor
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Golf Inn, this Bomb Squad. I'm your host,
Chris Finn, and today I am excited to have a
guest with me. Who if you guys don't know, you
probably have a pretty bad mental game because there seem
to be a lot of people on the big tours,
hundreds of people on the big tours, including major champions.
Who know this man, Carl Morris actually as widely regarded
(00:29):
as Europe's leading golf performance coach. I think it's six
major winners. Correct me if I'm wrong, Carl, But I
mean quite the resume and quite an honor to have
you with us today on the Golf Inn this Bomb Squad.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Always great to be Chris. I always always look forward
to these conversations and see where they go.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, you know, I think the mental side of the game.
It's funny, you know we're in we're just talking about
the weather and how how not golf weather it is
right now where you are. And then you know, for
North Carolinians and we complain that we don't play unless
at sixty or more, so we can we can say
that for another day, but you know, for a lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
And never whenever you whenever you talk to a brick Chris,
you always end up talking about the weather at some point.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So exactly, I joke when I moved to North Carolina,
I moved to a town called Kerry and it's a
c A R y and the the funny parts. All
the Southerners who grew up here call that the containment
area for relocated Yankees. That's where all the Northerners moved
down for the warmer weather, right But the yeah, for
a lot of people listening, and you know, it's the
(01:30):
off season right now, you know they're not playing as much.
And I think for the physical side, it's kind of
become very normal to say, Hey, this is the time
where I want to work on my body, and this
is the time, you know, I'm not playing as much.
I'm curious from from your side on the mental side
of the game, is there a better time to work
on the on the on the on the on the
(01:52):
mental side, or is it you know what do you
kind of recommend that with that?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, definitely, I would much rather start working with a
player Chris in in the off season. And I kind
of have my mantra if you if you like that,
if you if you're going to get the best out
of your game, whatever level that is. There's there's really
two things that you've got to do. Number one is
you've got to develop some golfing skills. You know, the
(02:15):
idea that you know it's all in the mac, The
idea that you can just sit under a tree and
visualize yourself playing like tiger Woods is a nonsense. We
need we need to develop some skills, but then to
be able to then go on the golf course and
access those skills. And I think for me in the
winter time in the off season, to get really clear,
(02:38):
I get a lot of players to get them to
sit down and say, okay, look, look back on last
season and what are some of the key skills that
you need to develop to become a better player. And
I think that frame is is a lot different than
a lot of people say I'm gonna I'm gonna work
on my swing in the winter, which is a big
difference between working on swings and working on skills. So
(02:59):
you know, there's a whole bunch of things that a
player could look at. Might be things like developing better
pace control or a more centered hit in terms of
the club face. But I think once you really drill
down and look into specific skills, then I think you're
giving yourself the best possible shot at them being able
to then access those skills come the summer time. And
(03:21):
I think it ties directly in with your world as well.
You know, if you've got certain patterns going on in
your golf game, is the root of those patterns From
a physical perspective, if there's some limitation in the way
that you move your body, that actually is causing those
patterns to be to be somewhat extreme. So I think
viewing it through the lens of skill is a wonderful
(03:43):
way of hopefully blending the technical, physical, and mental together.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, it's you know, a couple of things come to
mind as you're talking there. I think one is the assessment,
you know, of figuring out what is the potential implication
you said. Obviously, on the physical side, we can look
at and say, hey, you are upper body dominant or
you're not using your lower body. Is it because your
lower body doesn't work? Is because you're you know, way
stronger in the upper body releg the lower body. How
(04:08):
do you go about Yeah, I think for everybody listening
and if it's your first time listening, I'll reiterate as
always we always talk we think of like a performance pyramid,
and on the physical side we have kind of the
mobility is kind of the foundation, and then do you
have the strength on top of that? Then we would
look at what's your power numbers? What are your power
numbers like? And then are you able to transfer to
the golf swing right? And then you get more and
(04:29):
more specific, what does that look like? On the mental
side of things, you know, what are how would somebody
going about like go about figuring out Like I feel
like it's easy for a guy to look at a
swing and be like, oh, I don't turn as much
as I used to. I probably need to work on
my mobility. How do you do that? Or or how does
somebody come up with that?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
On the mental side, it is more of a challenge, definitely,
because clearly a lot of it's subjective. But one model
that I've phound really useful. I've used it for twenty
five years or so, and I'll sit down with a
client and I'll explain to them that every round of
golf contains what I call the four quadrants, and the
(05:07):
four quadrants which would be you've got a period before
you play. We're going to do something before we get
on the golf course. We're going to do something before
we get to the first tee. So there's before the during,
which is the actual time we come to play and
prepare for the shot and execute the shot, is the
real interesting one. Then the third quadrant is what I
(05:27):
call the in between, where we're playing this unique game
where ninety five percent of the time that we're out
on a golf course, we're not actually playing. We're not
actually playing the sport. We're not actually playing the game.
We're doing something else. We're riding in a cart or
we're walking in between shots. And for a lot of people,
if they really look at that ninety five percent, ninety
ninety five percent of non golf, there's usually some clues
(05:51):
within that area of what do they doing during that
time when they're at the best, how do they interact
with the golf course, how do they interact with people
that they're playing with. And then the more relevant is
what goes on in that time when they're really not
at the best, and you know, they start beating the
crap out of themselves and reacting poorly to shots, et cetera.
(06:13):
And then you've got the after golf, and this is
probably the most overlooked area. I think, well, once you've
once you've finished playing a game, how does that experience
actually rest in your in your brain?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
One of the things that we kind of understand from
neuroscience is that humans have a predisposition to focus and
remember more of the bad stuff than the good stuff.
There was a there was a guy called Yensen explain
to me and euroscientists, and he said, it's kind of
like Tefon and Velcrow in the way that our brain
remembers things for good and bad experiences. That the good
(06:49):
stuff tends to slip away like food off a teflon pan,
and the bad stuff tends to we hold on to
it like Velcrow unless we do something about it. So
I don't know about you. I would guess it comes
into your but I'm a massive fan of these things
of journals. I think if you're really serious about your game,
(07:09):
you know, writing stuff down. And ultimately, when I'm working
with a player, my kind of goal is redundancy really
whereby I get the player to really understand themselves as
quickly as possible, because that ultimately is the only person
that you really need to understand. And I think the
questions that we ask ourselves often leaders away from progress.
(07:33):
We're as better reflection. After the round of golf, something
as simple as asking yourself, well, what were the three
best shots today? What was my experience like on those
three good shots? What was the preparation? Like where was
my attention during the shot? And anybody who embarks on
that and starts to do that over a sustained period
(07:54):
of time, they really start to home in on what
are the things that make them tickers unique individual? What
are the what are the sort of key areas that
they put their attention on that then allow them to
access the skill that they've worked on in practice.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That's so interesting. Yeah, I actually I want to dive
more into that. That in between. I've never heard anyone
talk about that, And yeah, I think it was I'd
be curious obviously. You know, obviously most of the people
listening here are not major champions, So so for the
amateur kind of what are the things that you see?
But yeah, but then also I guess for the touring professional,
like how does it do you notice differences or are
(08:29):
there and maybe maybe they're similar in one of the
four quadrants, but different others. How do you can't what
do you what do you tend to see amateur versus professional?
But then also specifically and then in between quadrants.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, it's it's across the board, really, Chris, that you
see the same stuff going on, because whether the major
champions or they're trying to trying to break eight, so
that the human tendencies come to the fore in that
in that particular time, and I, you know, the last
thirty years are sort of doing the One of the
things I've really tried to do is make all of
(09:03):
this stuff practical and applicable, because you know, we can
get we can drown in information and clever sounding words
and things like that. But for me, in a nutshell,
what happens in that in between times, that ninety five percent,
which is such low hanging fruit really that you're saying
virtually nobody works on it and it's such a big opportunity.
(09:24):
Is that is that when we're out on the golf course,
if you think of it this way, that in between
shots were either internal or external in the sense that
we're either in our head, in our own word, in
her own head, ruminating about the past, or projecting into
the future, all the things that we do all day,
every day as human being.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I believe I just shanked it into the trap. How
did I ever do that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Hell did I do that? And you know what happens
if I don't par him from here? And if I
don't put a good score together, what's my dad going
to say? What's my mum going to say? Or even
when you're playing well, you know, I've always wanted to
get my name on that club championship board and all
of the things that we do that we're never going
to stop that. The mind has a tendency to that.
(10:06):
But there's a wonderful thing that you can start to
explore with this idea of these two channels, either internal
or external. There was a there was a guy called
Fritz Pearls many years ago. He was a gestalt therapist,
and he came up with a phrase that resonated so
strongly with me all those years ago, and he said,
(10:27):
he said, we need to stop thinking and come to
our senses. And that encapsulates really a direction that we
can we can go in that when we're in our
head thinking about the past and the future, that the
mind can always do those projections. But the body can't.
The physical body can't as far as I know, unless
(10:49):
you've kind of doctor who was somebody. We can't leave
the present moment. Now. When you place your attention on
your physical body or your physical senses, it's a wonderful
way of grounding yourself right back in that hallowed place,
that cliched place of the of the present moment. So
I'll get places to have some fun with this.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I was.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I was talking with a guy the other day who's
made some ill progress with this. He was a he's
a top class German golfer, plays at the highest level
and the amateurs scene over there, and I gave I
gave him this idea a while ago of go out
on the golf course, play play eighteen holes and for
the first six holes, tune into what you can see,
(11:30):
tune into something in your environment that you've perhaps not
seen before. Then play six holes. Were you tune into
what you can hear? Then play six holes, were you
tune into what you can feel. And this guy, he was,
I mean to say that he had a bad temper
was probably the biggest understatement ever. I mean, this guy
was like a volcano or you know, he's one shot
(11:52):
away from insanity all the time. And he came back
and he said, he said, he said it was amazing.
He said. The field stuff didn't work. He said, the
visual stuff definitely didn't work. He said, But when I
tuned into what I was, what I could hear in
this in the sounds around me, he said, he said,
it was weird. He said, I just felt a kind
of peace descending a quietness in my mind. And that's
(12:14):
what I find over and over again where people when
they go out an experiment with this, they find something
that they really latch onto. I'll try and go for
a walk every day, and one of the things when
I do, and when I go for a walk is tuning.
I find it very beneficial to just tune into the
feeling of my feet as I'm walking along. You know,
my mind wanders away, but I try and bring it back.
(12:36):
And it's just I think a lot of a lot
of the things with the mental game is making it
more of a sort of exploration and being rather than
me saying you've got to do this and this is
the answer. Just just become curious about your own experience.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, And so essentially, when you're talking about that player
that the visual didn't work and it was really you know,
is it in a way like I know physically when
we talk about learning your kinesthetic you could be a
kinesthetic learner. You could a visual learn ad audible learn.
Is it similar when you're kind of exploring where you
have some players who visualization is kind of what clicks
(13:11):
for them, and others were I'm assuming it's not a
one one thing fixes everyone, right, absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You know, you could get another guy who goes out
and tunes into the auditory and it doesn't have any
impact whatsoever. Yeah, and you know you've touched on an
important point there that a lot of the kind of
sort of pop psychology of the mental game books will say, oh,
you've got to get into the visualization the shot and
see these traces and all this kind of stuff, And
I find players over there is get so hung up
(13:39):
on that. Well, I can't visualize, I can't see anything. Well,
how about if you maybe described the shot and you
just verbalized it. You know, Tiger Woods in a great
video that was done in two thousand, I think it
was when he was dominating the game, he talked about
he he really had problems visualizing the shot, but he
worked with a guy called Jay Bruns who got in
(14:01):
much more in a sort of feel sense of really
tuning into the feel of the shot that he was
he was playing. So I'll say to players, your your
job as a player is to become what I call
an attention detective. You've got to become really curious about
where your attention needs to be to elicit your skills
and get the best out of yourself. And that's where
(14:23):
I think then the journal becomes so important that you
get in the habit of writing things down and just
just being reflecting in a way that you just get
more and more understanding of your own tendencies.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah. Certain, for you know, for people listening. You know,
I've tried journal and I think a lot of people
have heard about, you know, using a journal. Well, you know,
what's kind of the basic you know, one O one
intro to to how to use a journal? Right, it's
I mean it's a book with paper, like, what are
you supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It's a blank book with nothing written in it, isn't it.
And I think the problem with that is that a
lot of people, you know, they'll read something about journal
and and it will say you've got to You've got
to do this, that and the other, and it just
becomes it's almost like doing homework at school. It's like,
you know, christ, I've got to put in the journal again.
I find that really the best thing that you can
(15:12):
do is just it's just use a few simple questions
that you can actually write down whatever you feel is
appropriate that day. So one of the things that I'll
get players to do with the journal is before they
go out to play golf, is just maybe have the
journal in the you know, in the glove compartment, in
the in the car or somewhere handed to them the
(15:34):
travel kit or whatever, and a question such as what
am I committee to today? Now that that question what
am I committee to today? Just gives you a great
big scope of things that you might want to write
down that day that you deem are important once you
get out there. You know, as I often joke in
the seminars, I can't imagine anybody's ever going to say
(15:57):
in answer to the question what am I committee to today?
That I'm committed to going out there and if I
three put, I'll get really angry. And then for the
next six souls I'll behave like a child and not
speak to anybody. You know, nobody's going to put that down,
but that's actually what the game can bring out in
us at times. However, if you write down what you
committed to that day, I call it pre programming behavior.
(16:21):
You're giving yourself a blueprint of who you're going to
be on the golf course that day. Because unless I
think we move in that direction, we're always just going
to bounce around relative to what the golf ball does.
So the golf balls dictating who we are writing in
a journal doesn't guarantee anything, but my experience is increases
your chances.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I think it's an important part for everyone to take home. Actually,
we was joking with my marketing director day as we're
talking about different content to make, and I was joking
that we should make some funny content where we'd film
a guy come in, you know, fifty years old. You know,
I'm the simulator doing this testing. You know, it hits,
it hits ninety five miles an hour, goes to the gym,
you know, walks the other side of our building. You know,
(17:02):
does one set of an exercise, comes back, swings again,
does ninety five miles an hour and then throws his
hands up like, what the heck, I'm that faster. Yet
there's this expectation that there should be an immediate return.
We see it all the time on the physical and
it's funny. I'm assuming you see similar trends on the
on the mental side as well.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You could have you could have
replicated exactly what I experienced, you know, where you give
people this idea of so you know, I've written in
the I've written in the journal a couple of times,
but I don't feel any better. You know. It's kind
of like you've got to You've got to embrace this
for a period of time. You know, something was saying
to me the other day about I'll butcher this, but
(17:44):
it'll make a point saying that. I think in China,
in certain areas of I think tai Chi or something,
certainly one of the martial arts, they measure improvements in
ten year blocks. And I think, Christ, what a difference
that we have in you know, in the West. It's
like in ten minute blocks rather than you know, I
(18:05):
can I get this new body instantly or this new
mind instantly?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well, and you know, on that note, like I mentioned
the fifty year old golfer like later in life, like
can you still make improvement mentally? You know, as guys
are aging. You know, the guy who maybe played collegiately
or you know, enjoyed playing as a junior, absolutely got
a job, got married. You know, now he's starting to
look at retirement, has more time, and like once you know,
(18:30):
starting to play seriously again again. You know, can you
is there an age at which point you can cann
act get better mentally?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I mean, I think until we get to the point
where there is unfortunately, you know, brain decline such as
you know, dementia or Alzheimers, any of the dreadful things
that can happen to us. I'm a firm believer, you know,
if I'm in your in your world, there's such strong
evidence that people take up kind of resistance training even
(18:56):
in their eighties and nineties, and they can make dramatic improvements,
can't they? You know, I believe the same thing in
the in the mental game. What one thing I think
that's you know, worth looking at with that is that
on this almost what at any age really is that
ultimately when you come to play golf, that the key
(19:16):
thing that we're looking at here is the ability to
pay attention on purpose. That the skill of bringing your
attention to this particular shot, in this particular moment. But
I think in this current world that we're in, you know,
the amount of evidence that suggesting that we're receiving so
much information and we've got so much noise coming into
(19:37):
the brain, that our ability to pay attention is getting
is getting worse and worse and worse. So I think
for a lot of people listening, you should you should
really see golf a as a as a sanctuary in
a way to just try and redress some of the balance.
You know, it would be foolish of me to say
to people, you know, don't use your phone. You know,
(19:58):
too much of our life is in our phone. But
we do need to understand that those things that the
devil in the pocket that's constantly wanting our attention, and
all we're doing, and we're flicking through social media, you know,
and we're all guilty of it to a degree. When
we're flicking through social media, we're actually training a form
of low level distraction rather than attention. You know, that
(20:22):
ability to pay attention to a conversation or the ability
to pay attention to an article or whatever. Certainly when
we get on the golf course, the ability to be
immersed in this particular shot. So I think things like
going for a walk each day and focusing your attention
(20:42):
on the feeling of your feed or the sounds around you.
Whilst it might sound a bit tried and a bit
tree huggy, my goodness, it's not only beneficial physically, but
it's beneficial mentally as well. You know, in the gym,
I think to me, you can work so much on
your mind in the gym from from this perspective. You know,
(21:04):
I'm sure I'm sure you've you've seen the what's the
what's the famous Arnold Schwartz and pumping eyron that was,
I'm sure you've seen. And you know, although he was joking,
assuming was joking at the time when Arnold was talking
about putting the mind and the muscle and you know,
and and all the things that he that he said,
I get people when they go in the gym just
(21:27):
to just to consider how present you can actually be
to your body when you're doing your exercise. You know,
I really don't like seeing people on running machines and
things like that with with headphones on. And I certainly
don't like seeing people practicing golf with the headphones on
because the headphones are substituting your ability to pay attention.
(21:48):
You know, I see a lot of kids hitting balls
with headphones, and I think, well, unless you can actually
take that into the tournament with you, you should not
be practicing that way because the headphones are actually just
creating a white noise. And then all of a sudden,
you go on the golf course and you know, you've
got you've got to listen to your mind. You've not
got a song that's's going there?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Is that basically like like if you had somebody in
the gym squatting with a I don't know, like like
a back brace on. Let's say they're doing three hundred pounds, right,
and then one day they forget the back brace. Now
all of a sudden, is that kind of the same
thing where now they don't have that crutch and now
that but they still got to lift that weight, And
so that kind of the would be an analogy I
would as soon.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, But I think you know this
idea that when you go training, if you can, if
you can pay attention to, you know, as Arnold was saying,
you know particular muscle group that you weren't and can
you be there with your attention? You know, I was
reminded recently of a very famous marathon runner in this country,
(22:49):
a lady called Paula Radcliffe, who was a world champion.
And obviously when you're a marathon runner, attention is a
huge element to it. As you get in towards the
end of the race, you know, your mind's projecting into
the future and you know, am I going to be
able to get through? Can I do the last ten miles?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Ei? The hell?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Am I going to get through? When I feel like this?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And one of the things that she used, why did
I even start?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Why did I even start? They thought this was a
good idea. Yeah, she used to do. She used to do.
She used to ask herself the question, can I count
ten breaths? And she would actually go inside of her
head and just focus on the next ten breaths, and
then the next ten breaths, and then the next ten breaths,
and you know, it's it's anecdotal stuff like that, were
(23:33):
those ten breaths? She was present to her experience. She
wasn't in her head thinking oh, I've got another six
miles to go or whatever.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
So I think, you know, speak to high level athletes.
Whenever I'm prepping for a guest, I always kind of
I like to poke around and see kind of learn
more about them and then what they do. And I
always joke anyone who's heard heard the show before knows,
this is totally just selfish for me to get to
talk to people like yourself, because I just I love it.
But it's interesting to me. It's not often that you
(24:02):
see and someone's you know, I was looking on your website.
You've got testimonials from Darren Clark, from Graham McDow, from
whustays and it's quite impressive. But what was kind of
what caught my interest more so than the three names,
which obviously caught my attention, but was the red dot.
So Whustaysen was talking about how the red dot worked
(24:23):
perfectly the last round of Saint Andrew's basically summed up
all the work together. What what is the red dot
that that caught my attention, and it just you know,
what was the red dot? And what was the you know,
what were you guys working at that point.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, curiously, it's that not not that I carry it
everywhere with me, but I usually take it to the
seminars that I go. And he is actually the the glove,
literally the glove that Louis wore in the final st Andrey.
You can see his signature and that was the actual
dot that he he dot that he put on the
glove and basically what he was. You can see that.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, an in the thumb right between the everyone is
it listening, It's between where the belcrow and then the
base of the thumb. There's a red dot like a marker.
Is that what you drew with?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
So we'd met up a few weeks before that British Open,
and prior to that, I mean he was he was
a very good player already at that point, but he
never actually made a cut in a major up to
that point. And when we sat down, his management company
had got in touch and wanted me to do some
some work with him because he talked about struggling with
his focus and concentration and he played i think in
(25:30):
the US Open a couple of weeks prior to that
British Open, and he said, he said, I'm just having
so many shots where I hit the shot, and then
afterwards I just think, where the hell was I just
I just wasn't present.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
To that to that shot.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I remember saying to him, I said, well, what what
what are you doing in between shots? He said, oh,
he said, He said, I'm really trying to focus in
between shots and I'm really thinking about the next shot,
and bingo, here we go sort of thing. So I said,
going into the whole story, I said, if you could
use a word to describe how you would want to
(26:04):
be when you come to play a shot, what would
it be? And he thought for a moment, and I
think I think he said the word I think he
used the word focused. So I said, just imagine if
the word focus had a color, what would it be?
And he looked at me as that it was the
daftest question ever. I said, just go on, just just
play with me and play along with it. And he said, red,
(26:27):
I guess you know, he's a South African guy, and
and I could see its starting to just work around
in his mind. And one of those serendipitous moments where
his glove was there next to him and on the
on the desk that we were talking in Manchester, there
was a red marker pen and it was weird. I
(26:47):
think back to those twos to the coincidence, and he
said what he said, so if I put something like
a dot on my glove, I could maybe look at
that dot before the shot and that would be a
trigger to just go into the shot at hand and
be focused on the shot at hand. And in the
office that day he drew that not on this glove,
(27:09):
it was on another glove. He drew that dot on
the glove and then that was the deal for the
week at Saint Andrew's that as he approached the shot,
what he was going to do was look at that
red dot on his glove and that was the trigger
then to ask a couple of questions about the shot
and what he was trying to do. And he got
off to a nice start. I think he shot sixty
five the first round, and I always remember there was
(27:30):
a couple of guys on a couple of the experts
in the in the TV booth saying, no, it's nice
that this young guy's had a good score in the
first round, but there's no way he's going to hang
on for the next four days. He's just not got
enough experience at this level. Well, three four days later
he was walking up the eighteenth at Saint Andrew's with
a seven shot lead and managed to close it out.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
In the end.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
It was one of those nice stories. And you know,
did the red dot make him win the Open? No,
he was a great player, but I'd like to think
you'd had one percent impact on on that on that week.
And it was just a good example of what we've
been talking about. Really, that red dot brought his attention
to that particular task of executing each shot.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That's amazing, That's so cool. And so I guess the
last thing I wanted to ask you about was I
saw it. You know, I was looking at everything that
you do, and I say everybody listening as I was
interested in our guests and how they could potentially learn
more from them. You had on your site, the mind
Mind Caddy, looks like a way that you work with
with people. And you know, I think, to me, the
only thing harder than the game of golf is finding
(28:36):
a good mental coach. So a lot of people call
themselves mental coaches or people understand how to help people
at their mental game. You're obviously one of those people,
you know, talk to me a little bit about mine
Caddy kind of what was the genesis of it and
how it works.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, but what I wanted to do with the with
the mind Caddy, Chris, was create an app that I
made mental coaching affordable. You know, clearly, if you know,
if guys consults, it's it can be an expensive thing,
you know, to invest in working with me or whoever.
And some people have that availability, but perhaps the vast
(29:10):
majority don't. But I do believe that for the most
players that you can gain so much by just understanding
a little bit more about the mental game. So, in essence,
the mind Caddy is just a it's a relatively in
it it's a very inexpensive art that you can you know,
you can sign up to for a year and it's
got a bunch of programs in where you can listen
(29:31):
to them. There's videos, there's audio, and specifically there's a
section for a lot of players have used this this year.
It's called the off Season Program and it's a kind
of six week course leading into the season that it
takes you through skill development and things like that. So
I'm pretty proud of it. Really, it's kind of like
my life's work on there, so you know, you get,
(29:53):
you get, you get quite quite a lot there for
a run about fifty pounds something like that for the year.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
That's amazing, you know, It's it is funny. I always
joke with our team in every like you know, April
March or April, we'll get an email from some random
new you know, mental expert who's come to the area,
who whatever whatever it was, but it and I honestly
that is the one area from a performance standpoint where
we've always struggled to find somebody. You know, we obviously
(30:21):
haven't found anyone local that we will refer people to
on a regular basis or anything. So for all of
you guys listening the MI Cave, we'll put all the
links in the in the show notes for you so
you can go check this out. Definitely check it out.
It's you know, obviously Carl's resume speaks for himself, but
you know, just the content and the way that the
education's put together, I think his top notch and I mean,
(30:42):
shoot for fifty pounds can't beat that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I'll just tell you just just just one funny story
of relating to the to the Glove Chris that when
Louis won the Open. It kind of got a little
bit of probably got a lot of press at the
time and about this red dot, and you know a
lot of the newspapers covered it, and he was kind
enough to say and all the rest of it. And
for quite a while afterwards, you can imagine, I started
to see a different amateur tournaments, a lot of people
(31:09):
with white gloves and red dots, and I'll never forget
this was what. There was one guy, it was a
pro and I see, I see this guy and he's
got a red dot on his glove there, and I
walk up to him and I said, oh, I said,
that's that's interesting. You've got a red dot on your glove.
And he looked and he said, yeah, he said, he said,
I have no idea what it's all about, he said,
but I thought I'd give it a go anyway.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
That's amazing. I got to love humans. That's amazing. Cool. Well, hey, Carl,
thank you so much for your time. Have someone to
be respectful of your time. You're busy, man, I love
thank you so much for the stories, the insight and obviously,
you know, putting all the blood, sweat and tears and
into the into the mind Caddy for listeners and guys,
definitely go check it out, go check out what Carl's doing.
And on Instagram, what's you know, what's the other I
(31:51):
know you're on Instagram? What are other ways for people
to kind of follow you or kind.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Of I'm terrible with technology. It's probably the best thing
to do if he was, just go to the website
and just go to the website, the mind Fact, the
mind Factor dot probably the best place.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, yeah, perfect, so cool. So then it's the mind
Factor dot com. Got hear dot net? Is it net
or calm?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
It's either if you put either in it, it's fine either.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Get you there. Okay, So you got both perfect, right,
and we'll make sure that we put that in the
show notes forverybody listening. So, as always, thanks for hanging
out with me here on the Golfing Bomb Squad. Carl,
thank you for your time. It's been awesome having you
and we'll definitely have to do it again.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I really appreciate it. Chris, It's been a great conversation
and I love the opportunity to do just to share
some ideas with you.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Awesome. We'll look forward to having you on the next time.
Welcome to the Golf Inn, this Bomb Squad. I'm your host,
Chris Finn, and today I am excited to have a
guest with me. Who if you guys don't know, you
probably have a pretty bad mental game because there seem
to be a lot of people on the big tours,
hundreds of people on the big tours, including major champions.
Who know this man, Carl Morris actually as widely regarded
(00:29):
as Europe's leading golf performance coach. I think it's six
major winners. Correct me if I'm wrong, Carl, But I
mean quite the resume and quite an honor to have
you with us today on the Golf Inn this Bomb Squad.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Always great to be Chris. I always always look forward
to these conversations and see where they go.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, you know, I think the mental side of the game.
It's funny, you know we're in we're just talking about
the weather and how how not golf weather it is
right now where you are. And then you know, for
North Carolinians and we complain that we don't play unless
at sixty or more, so we can we can say
that for another day, but you know, for a lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
And never whenever you whenever you talk to a brick Chris,
you always end up talking about the weather at some point.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So exactly, I joke when I moved to North Carolina,
I moved to a town called Kerry and it's a
c A R y and the the funny parts. All
the Southerners who grew up here call that the containment
area for relocated Yankees. That's where all the Northerners moved
down for the warmer weather, right But the yeah, for
a lot of people listening, and you know, it's the
(01:30):
off season right now, you know they're not playing as much.
And I think for the physical side, it's kind of
become very normal to say, Hey, this is the time
where I want to work on my body, and this
is the time, you know, I'm not playing as much.
I'm curious from from your side on the mental side
of the game, is there a better time to work
on the on the on the on the on the
(01:52):
mental side, or is it you know what do you
kind of recommend that with that?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, definitely, I would much rather start working with a
player Chris in in the off season. And I kind
of have my mantra if you if you like that,
if you if you're going to get the best out
of your game, whatever level that is. There's there's really
two things that you've got to do. Number one is
you've got to develop some golfing skills. You know, the
(02:15):
idea that you know it's all in the mac, The
idea that you can just sit under a tree and
visualize yourself playing like tiger Woods is a nonsense. We
need we need to develop some skills, but then to
be able to then go on the golf course and
access those skills. And I think for me in the
winter time in the off season, to get really clear,
(02:38):
I get a lot of players to get them to
sit down and say, okay, look, look back on last
season and what are some of the key skills that
you need to develop to become a better player. And
I think that frame is is a lot different than
a lot of people say I'm gonna I'm gonna work
on my swing in the winter, which is a big
difference between working on swings and working on skills. So
(02:59):
you know, there's a whole bunch of things that a
player could look at. Might be things like developing better
pace control or a more centered hit in terms of
the club face. But I think once you really drill
down and look into specific skills, then I think you're
giving yourself the best possible shot at them being able
to then access those skills come the summer time. And
(03:21):
I think it ties directly in with your world as well.
You know, if you've got certain patterns going on in
your golf game, is the root of those patterns From
a physical perspective, if there's some limitation in the way
that you move your body, that actually is causing those
patterns to be to be somewhat extreme. So I think
viewing it through the lens of skill is a wonderful
(03:43):
way of hopefully blending the technical, physical, and mental together.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, it's you know, a couple of things come to
mind as you're talking there. I think one is the assessment,
you know, of figuring out what is the potential implication
you said. Obviously, on the physical side, we can look
at and say, hey, you are upper body dominant or
you're not using your lower body. Is it because your
lower body doesn't work? Is because you're you know, way
stronger in the upper body releg the lower body. How
(04:08):
do you go about Yeah, I think for everybody listening
and if it's your first time listening, I'll reiterate as
always we always talk we think of like a performance pyramid,
and on the physical side we have kind of the
mobility is kind of the foundation, and then do you
have the strength on top of that? Then we would
look at what's your power numbers? What are your power
numbers like? And then are you able to transfer to
the golf swing right? And then you get more and
(04:29):
more specific, what does that look like? On the mental
side of things, you know, what are how would somebody
going about like go about figuring out Like I feel
like it's easy for a guy to look at a
swing and be like, oh, I don't turn as much
as I used to. I probably need to work on
my mobility. How do you do that? Or or how does
somebody come up with that?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
On the mental side, it is more of a challenge, definitely,
because clearly a lot of it's subjective. But one model
that I've phound really useful. I've used it for twenty
five years or so, and I'll sit down with a
client and I'll explain to them that every round of
golf contains what I call the four quadrants, and the
(05:07):
four quadrants which would be you've got a period before
you play. We're going to do something before we get
on the golf course. We're going to do something before
we get to the first tee. So there's before the during,
which is the actual time we come to play and
prepare for the shot and execute the shot, is the
real interesting one. Then the third quadrant is what I
(05:27):
call the in between, where we're playing this unique game
where ninety five percent of the time that we're out
on a golf course, we're not actually playing. We're not
actually playing the sport. We're not actually playing the game.
We're doing something else. We're riding in a cart or
we're walking in between shots. And for a lot of people,
if they really look at that ninety five percent, ninety
ninety five percent of non golf, there's usually some clues
(05:51):
within that area of what do they doing during that
time when they're at the best, how do they interact
with the golf course, how do they interact with people
that they're playing with. And then the more relevant is
what goes on in that time when they're really not
at the best, and you know, they start beating the
crap out of themselves and reacting poorly to shots, et cetera.
(06:13):
And then you've got the after golf, and this is
probably the most overlooked area. I think, well, once you've
once you've finished playing a game, how does that experience
actually rest in your in your brain?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
One of the things that we kind of understand from
neuroscience is that humans have a predisposition to focus and
remember more of the bad stuff than the good stuff.
There was a there was a guy called Yensen explain
to me and euroscientists, and he said, it's kind of
like Tefon and Velcrow in the way that our brain
remembers things for good and bad experiences. That the good
(06:49):
stuff tends to slip away like food off a teflon pan,
and the bad stuff tends to we hold on to
it like Velcrow unless we do something about it. So
I don't know about you. I would guess it comes
into your but I'm a massive fan of these things
of journals. I think if you're really serious about your game,
(07:09):
you know, writing stuff down. And ultimately, when I'm working
with a player, my kind of goal is redundancy really
whereby I get the player to really understand themselves as
quickly as possible, because that ultimately is the only person
that you really need to understand. And I think the
questions that we ask ourselves often leaders away from progress.
(07:33):
We're as better reflection. After the round of golf, something
as simple as asking yourself, well, what were the three
best shots today? What was my experience like on those
three good shots? What was the preparation? Like where was
my attention during the shot? And anybody who embarks on
that and starts to do that over a sustained period
(07:54):
of time, they really start to home in on what
are the things that make them tickers unique individual? What
are the what are the sort of key areas that
they put their attention on that then allow them to
access the skill that they've worked on in practice.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That's so interesting. Yeah, I actually I want to dive
more into that. That in between. I've never heard anyone
talk about that, And yeah, I think it was I'd
be curious obviously. You know, obviously most of the people
listening here are not major champions, So so for the
amateur kind of what are the things that you see?
But yeah, but then also I guess for the touring professional,
like how does it do you notice differences or are
(08:29):
there and maybe maybe they're similar in one of the
four quadrants, but different others. How do you can't what
do you what do you tend to see amateur versus professional?
But then also specifically and then in between quadrants.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, it's it's across the board, really, Chris, that you
see the same stuff going on, because whether the major
champions or they're trying to trying to break eight, so
that the human tendencies come to the fore in that
in that particular time, and I, you know, the last
thirty years are sort of doing the One of the
things I've really tried to do is make all of
(09:03):
this stuff practical and applicable, because you know, we can
get we can drown in information and clever sounding words
and things like that. But for me, in a nutshell,
what happens in that in between times, that ninety five percent,
which is such low hanging fruit really that you're saying
virtually nobody works on it and it's such a big opportunity.
(09:24):
Is that is that when we're out on the golf course,
if you think of it this way, that in between
shots were either internal or external in the sense that
we're either in our head, in our own word, in
her own head, ruminating about the past, or projecting into
the future, all the things that we do all day,
every day as human being.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I believe I just shanked it into the trap. How
did I ever do that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Hell did I do that? And you know what happens
if I don't par him from here? And if I
don't put a good score together, what's my dad going
to say? What's my mum going to say? Or even
when you're playing well, you know, I've always wanted to
get my name on that club championship board and all
of the things that we do that we're never going
to stop that. The mind has a tendency to that.
(10:06):
But there's a wonderful thing that you can start to
explore with this idea of these two channels, either internal
or external. There was a there was a guy called
Fritz Pearls many years ago. He was a gestalt therapist,
and he came up with a phrase that resonated so
strongly with me all those years ago, and he said,
(10:27):
he said, we need to stop thinking and come to
our senses. And that encapsulates really a direction that we
can we can go in that when we're in our
head thinking about the past and the future, that the
mind can always do those projections. But the body can't.
The physical body can't as far as I know, unless
(10:49):
you've kind of doctor who was somebody. We can't leave
the present moment. Now. When you place your attention on
your physical body or your physical senses, it's a wonderful
way of grounding yourself right back in that hallowed place,
that cliched place of the of the present moment. So
I'll get places to have some fun with this.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I was.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I was talking with a guy the other day who's
made some ill progress with this. He was a he's
a top class German golfer, plays at the highest level
and the amateurs scene over there, and I gave I
gave him this idea a while ago of go out
on the golf course, play play eighteen holes and for
the first six holes, tune into what you can see,
(11:30):
tune into something in your environment that you've perhaps not
seen before. Then play six holes. Were you tune into
what you can hear? Then play six holes, were you
tune into what you can feel. And this guy, he was,
I mean to say that he had a bad temper
was probably the biggest understatement ever. I mean, this guy
was like a volcano or you know, he's one shot
(11:52):
away from insanity all the time. And he came back
and he said, he said, he said it was amazing.
He said. The field stuff didn't work. He said, the
visual stuff definitely didn't work. He said, But when I
tuned into what I was, what I could hear in
this in the sounds around me, he said, he said,
it was weird. He said, I just felt a kind
of peace descending a quietness in my mind. And that's
(12:14):
what I find over and over again where people when
they go out an experiment with this, they find something
that they really latch onto. I'll try and go for
a walk every day, and one of the things when
I do, and when I go for a walk is tuning.
I find it very beneficial to just tune into the
feeling of my feet as I'm walking along. You know,
my mind wanders away, but I try and bring it back.
(12:36):
And it's just I think a lot of a lot
of the things with the mental game is making it
more of a sort of exploration and being rather than
me saying you've got to do this and this is
the answer. Just just become curious about your own experience.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, And so essentially, when you're talking about that player
that the visual didn't work and it was really you know,
is it in a way like I know physically when
we talk about learning your kinesthetic you could be a
kinesthetic learner. You could a visual learn ad audible learn.
Is it similar when you're kind of exploring where you
have some players who visualization is kind of what clicks
(13:11):
for them, and others were I'm assuming it's not a
one one thing fixes everyone, right, absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You know, you could get another guy who goes out
and tunes into the auditory and it doesn't have any
impact whatsoever. Yeah, and you know you've touched on an
important point there that a lot of the kind of
sort of pop psychology of the mental game books will say, oh,
you've got to get into the visualization the shot and
see these traces and all this kind of stuff, And
I find players over there is get so hung up
(13:39):
on that. Well, I can't visualize, I can't see anything. Well,
how about if you maybe described the shot and you
just verbalized it. You know, Tiger Woods in a great
video that was done in two thousand, I think it
was when he was dominating the game, he talked about
he he really had problems visualizing the shot, but he
worked with a guy called Jay Bruns who got in
(14:01):
much more in a sort of feel sense of really
tuning into the feel of the shot that he was
he was playing. So I'll say to players, your your
job as a player is to become what I call
an attention detective. You've got to become really curious about
where your attention needs to be to elicit your skills
and get the best out of yourself. And that's where
(14:23):
I think then the journal becomes so important that you
get in the habit of writing things down and just
just being reflecting in a way that you just get
more and more understanding of your own tendencies.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah. Certain, for you know, for people listening. You know,
I've tried journal and I think a lot of people
have heard about, you know, using a journal. Well, you know,
what's kind of the basic you know, one O one
intro to to how to use a journal? Right, it's
I mean it's a book with paper, like, what are
you supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It's a blank book with nothing written in it, isn't it.
And I think the problem with that is that a
lot of people, you know, they'll read something about journal
and and it will say you've got to You've got
to do this, that and the other, and it just
becomes it's almost like doing homework at school. It's like,
you know, christ, I've got to put in the journal again.
I find that really the best thing that you can
(15:12):
do is just it's just use a few simple questions
that you can actually write down whatever you feel is
appropriate that day. So one of the things that I'll
get players to do with the journal is before they
go out to play golf, is just maybe have the
journal in the you know, in the glove compartment, in
the in the car or somewhere handed to them the
(15:34):
travel kit or whatever, and a question such as what
am I committee to today? Now that that question what
am I committee to today? Just gives you a great
big scope of things that you might want to write
down that day that you deem are important once you
get out there. You know, as I often joke in
the seminars, I can't imagine anybody's ever going to say
(15:57):
in answer to the question what am I committee to today?
That I'm committed to going out there and if I
three put, I'll get really angry. And then for the
next six souls I'll behave like a child and not
speak to anybody. You know, nobody's going to put that down,
but that's actually what the game can bring out in
us at times. However, if you write down what you
committed to that day, I call it pre programming behavior.
(16:21):
You're giving yourself a blueprint of who you're going to
be on the golf course that day. Because unless I
think we move in that direction, we're always just going
to bounce around relative to what the golf ball does.
So the golf balls dictating who we are writing in
a journal doesn't guarantee anything, but my experience is increases
your chances.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I think it's an important part for everyone to take home. Actually,
we was joking with my marketing director day as we're
talking about different content to make, and I was joking
that we should make some funny content where we'd film
a guy come in, you know, fifty years old. You know,
I'm the simulator doing this testing. You know, it hits,
it hits ninety five miles an hour, goes to the gym,
you know, walks the other side of our building. You know,
(17:02):
does one set of an exercise, comes back, swings again,
does ninety five miles an hour and then throws his
hands up like, what the heck, I'm that faster. Yet
there's this expectation that there should be an immediate return.
We see it all the time on the physical and
it's funny. I'm assuming you see similar trends on the
on the mental side as well.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You could have you could have
replicated exactly what I experienced, you know, where you give
people this idea of so you know, I've written in
the I've written in the journal a couple of times,
but I don't feel any better. You know. It's kind
of like you've got to You've got to embrace this
for a period of time. You know, something was saying
to me the other day about I'll butcher this, but
(17:44):
it'll make a point saying that. I think in China,
in certain areas of I think tai Chi or something,
certainly one of the martial arts, they measure improvements in
ten year blocks. And I think, Christ, what a difference
that we have in you know, in the West. It's
like in ten minute blocks rather than you know, I
(18:05):
can I get this new body instantly or this new
mind instantly?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well, and you know, on that note, like I mentioned
the fifty year old golfer like later in life, like
can you still make improvement mentally? You know, as guys
are aging. You know, the guy who maybe played collegiately
or you know, enjoyed playing as a junior, absolutely got
a job, got married. You know, now he's starting to
look at retirement, has more time, and like once you know,
(18:30):
starting to play seriously again again. You know, can you
is there an age at which point you can cann
act get better mentally?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I mean, I think until we get to the point
where there is unfortunately, you know, brain decline such as
you know, dementia or Alzheimers, any of the dreadful things
that can happen to us. I'm a firm believer, you know,
if I'm in your in your world, there's such strong
evidence that people take up kind of resistance training even
(18:56):
in their eighties and nineties, and they can make dramatic improvements,
can't they? You know, I believe the same thing in
the in the mental game. What one thing I think
that's you know, worth looking at with that is that
on this almost what at any age really is that
ultimately when you come to play golf, that the key
(19:16):
thing that we're looking at here is the ability to
pay attention on purpose. That the skill of bringing your
attention to this particular shot, in this particular moment. But
I think in this current world that we're in, you know,
the amount of evidence that suggesting that we're receiving so
much information and we've got so much noise coming into
(19:37):
the brain, that our ability to pay attention is getting
is getting worse and worse and worse. So I think
for a lot of people listening, you should you should
really see golf a as a as a sanctuary in
a way to just try and redress some of the balance.
You know, it would be foolish of me to say
to people, you know, don't use your phone. You know,
(19:58):
too much of our life is in our phone. But
we do need to understand that those things that the
devil in the pocket that's constantly wanting our attention, and
all we're doing, and we're flicking through social media, you know,
and we're all guilty of it to a degree. When
we're flicking through social media, we're actually training a form
of low level distraction rather than attention. You know, that
(20:22):
ability to pay attention to a conversation or the ability
to pay attention to an article or whatever. Certainly when
we get on the golf course, the ability to be
immersed in this particular shot. So I think things like
going for a walk each day and focusing your attention
(20:42):
on the feeling of your feed or the sounds around you.
Whilst it might sound a bit tried and a bit
tree huggy, my goodness, it's not only beneficial physically, but
it's beneficial mentally as well. You know, in the gym,
I think to me, you can work so much on
your mind in the gym from from this perspective. You know,
(21:04):
I'm sure I'm sure you've you've seen the what's the
what's the famous Arnold Schwartz and pumping eyron that was,
I'm sure you've seen. And you know, although he was joking,
assuming was joking at the time when Arnold was talking
about putting the mind and the muscle and you know,
and and all the things that he that he said,
I get people when they go in the gym just
(21:27):
to just to consider how present you can actually be
to your body when you're doing your exercise. You know,
I really don't like seeing people on running machines and
things like that with with headphones on. And I certainly
don't like seeing people practicing golf with the headphones on
because the headphones are substituting your ability to pay attention.
(21:48):
You know, I see a lot of kids hitting balls
with headphones, and I think, well, unless you can actually
take that into the tournament with you, you should not
be practicing that way because the headphones are actually just
creating a white noise. And then all of a sudden,
you go on the golf course and you know, you've
got you've got to listen to your mind. You've not
got a song that's's going there?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Is that basically like like if you had somebody in
the gym squatting with a I don't know, like like
a back brace on. Let's say they're doing three hundred pounds, right,
and then one day they forget the back brace. Now
all of a sudden, is that kind of the same
thing where now they don't have that crutch and now
that but they still got to lift that weight, And
so that kind of the would be an analogy I
would as soon.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, But I think you know this
idea that when you go training, if you can, if
you can pay attention to, you know, as Arnold was saying,
you know particular muscle group that you weren't and can
you be there with your attention? You know, I was
reminded recently of a very famous marathon runner in this country,
(22:49):
a lady called Paula Radcliffe, who was a world champion.
And obviously when you're a marathon runner, attention is a
huge element to it. As you get in towards the
end of the race, you know, your mind's projecting into
the future and you know, am I going to be
able to get through? Can I do the last ten miles?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Ei? The hell?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Am I going to get through? When I feel like this?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And one of the things that she used, why did
I even start?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Why did I even start? They thought this was a
good idea. Yeah, she used to do. She used to do.
She used to ask herself the question, can I count
ten breaths? And she would actually go inside of her
head and just focus on the next ten breaths, and
then the next ten breaths, and then the next ten breaths,
and you know, it's it's anecdotal stuff like that, were
(23:33):
those ten breaths? She was present to her experience. She
wasn't in her head thinking oh, I've got another six
miles to go or whatever.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
So I think, you know, speak to high level athletes.
Whenever I'm prepping for a guest, I always kind of
I like to poke around and see kind of learn
more about them and then what they do. And I
always joke anyone who's heard heard the show before knows,
this is totally just selfish for me to get to
talk to people like yourself, because I just I love it.
But it's interesting to me. It's not often that you
(24:02):
see and someone's you know, I was looking on your website.
You've got testimonials from Darren Clark, from Graham McDow, from
whustays and it's quite impressive. But what was kind of
what caught my interest more so than the three names,
which obviously caught my attention, but was the red dot.
So Whustaysen was talking about how the red dot worked
(24:23):
perfectly the last round of Saint Andrew's basically summed up
all the work together. What what is the red dot
that that caught my attention, and it just you know,
what was the red dot? And what was the you know,
what were you guys working at that point.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, curiously, it's that not not that I carry it
everywhere with me, but I usually take it to the
seminars that I go. And he is actually the the glove,
literally the glove that Louis wore in the final st Andrey.
You can see his signature and that was the actual
dot that he he dot that he put on the
glove and basically what he was. You can see that.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, an in the thumb right between the everyone is
it listening, It's between where the belcrow and then the
base of the thumb. There's a red dot like a marker.
Is that what you drew with?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
So we'd met up a few weeks before that British Open,
and prior to that, I mean he was he was
a very good player already at that point, but he
never actually made a cut in a major up to
that point. And when we sat down, his management company
had got in touch and wanted me to do some
some work with him because he talked about struggling with
his focus and concentration and he played i think in
(25:30):
the US Open a couple of weeks prior to that
British Open, and he said, he said, I'm just having
so many shots where I hit the shot, and then
afterwards I just think, where the hell was I just
I just wasn't present.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
To that to that shot.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I remember saying to him, I said, well, what what
what are you doing in between shots? He said, oh,
he said, He said, I'm really trying to focus in
between shots and I'm really thinking about the next shot,
and bingo, here we go sort of thing. So I said,
going into the whole story, I said, if you could
use a word to describe how you would want to
(26:04):
be when you come to play a shot, what would
it be? And he thought for a moment, and I
think I think he said the word I think he
used the word focused. So I said, just imagine if
the word focus had a color, what would it be?
And he looked at me as that it was the
daftest question ever. I said, just go on, just just
play with me and play along with it. And he said, red,
(26:27):
I guess you know, he's a South African guy, and
and I could see its starting to just work around
in his mind. And one of those serendipitous moments where
his glove was there next to him and on the
on the desk that we were talking in Manchester, there
was a red marker pen and it was weird. I
(26:47):
think back to those twos to the coincidence, and he
said what he said, so if I put something like
a dot on my glove, I could maybe look at
that dot before the shot and that would be a
trigger to just go into the shot at hand and
be focused on the shot at hand. And in the
office that day he drew that not on this glove,
(27:09):
it was on another glove. He drew that dot on
the glove and then that was the deal for the
week at Saint Andrew's that as he approached the shot,
what he was going to do was look at that
red dot on his glove and that was the trigger
then to ask a couple of questions about the shot
and what he was trying to do. And he got
off to a nice start. I think he shot sixty
five the first round, and I always remember there was
(27:30):
a couple of guys on a couple of the experts
in the in the TV booth saying, no, it's nice
that this young guy's had a good score in the
first round, but there's no way he's going to hang
on for the next four days. He's just not got
enough experience at this level. Well, three four days later
he was walking up the eighteenth at Saint Andrew's with
a seven shot lead and managed to close it out.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
In the end.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
It was one of those nice stories. And you know,
did the red dot make him win the Open? No,
he was a great player, but I'd like to think
you'd had one percent impact on on that on that week.
And it was just a good example of what we've
been talking about. Really, that red dot brought his attention
to that particular task of executing each shot.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That's amazing, That's so cool. And so I guess the
last thing I wanted to ask you about was I
saw it. You know, I was looking at everything that
you do, and I say everybody listening as I was
interested in our guests and how they could potentially learn
more from them. You had on your site, the mind
Mind Caddy, looks like a way that you work with
with people. And you know, I think, to me, the
only thing harder than the game of golf is finding
(28:36):
a good mental coach. So a lot of people call
themselves mental coaches or people understand how to help people
at their mental game. You're obviously one of those people,
you know, talk to me a little bit about mine
Caddy kind of what was the genesis of it and
how it works.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, but what I wanted to do with the with
the mind Caddy, Chris, was create an app that I
made mental coaching affordable. You know, clearly, if you know,
if guys consults, it's it can be an expensive thing,
you know, to invest in working with me or whoever.
And some people have that availability, but perhaps the vast
(29:10):
majority don't. But I do believe that for the most
players that you can gain so much by just understanding
a little bit more about the mental game. So, in essence,
the mind Caddy is just a it's a relatively in
it it's a very inexpensive art that you can you know,
you can sign up to for a year and it's
got a bunch of programs in where you can listen
(29:31):
to them. There's videos, there's audio, and specifically there's a
section for a lot of players have used this this year.
It's called the off Season Program and it's a kind
of six week course leading into the season that it
takes you through skill development and things like that. So
I'm pretty proud of it. Really, it's kind of like
my life's work on there, so you know, you get,
(29:53):
you get, you get quite quite a lot there for
a run about fifty pounds something like that for the year.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
That's amazing, you know, It's it is funny. I always
joke with our team in every like you know, April
March or April, we'll get an email from some random
new you know, mental expert who's come to the area,
who whatever whatever it was, but it and I honestly
that is the one area from a performance standpoint where
we've always struggled to find somebody. You know, we obviously
(30:21):
haven't found anyone local that we will refer people to
on a regular basis or anything. So for all of
you guys listening the MI Cave, we'll put all the
links in the in the show notes for you so
you can go check this out. Definitely check it out.
It's you know, obviously Carl's resume speaks for himself, but
you know, just the content and the way that the
education's put together, I think his top notch and I mean,
(30:42):
shoot for fifty pounds can't beat that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I'll just tell you just just just one funny story
of relating to the to the Glove Chris that when
Louis won the Open. It kind of got a little
bit of probably got a lot of press at the
time and about this red dot, and you know a
lot of the newspapers covered it, and he was kind
enough to say and all the rest of it. And
for quite a while afterwards, you can imagine, I started
to see a different amateur tournaments, a lot of people
(31:09):
with white gloves and red dots, and I'll never forget
this was what. There was one guy, it was a
pro and I see, I see this guy and he's
got a red dot on his glove there, and I
walk up to him and I said, oh, I said,
that's that's interesting. You've got a red dot on your glove.
And he looked and he said, yeah, he said, he said,
I have no idea what it's all about, he said,
but I thought I'd give it a go anyway.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
That's amazing. I got to love humans. That's amazing. Cool. Well, hey, Carl,
thank you so much for your time. Have someone to
be respectful of your time. You're busy, man, I love
thank you so much for the stories, the insight and obviously,
you know, putting all the blood, sweat and tears and
into the into the mind Caddy for listeners and guys,
definitely go check it out, go check out what Carl's doing.
And on Instagram, what's you know, what's the other I
(31:51):
know you're on Instagram? What are other ways for people
to kind of follow you or kind.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Of I'm terrible with technology. It's probably the best thing
to do if he was, just go to the website
and just go to the website, the mind Fact, the
mind Factor dot probably the best place.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, yeah, perfect, so cool. So then it's the mind
Factor dot com. Got hear dot net? Is it net
or calm?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
It's either if you put either in it, it's fine either.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Get you there. Okay, So you got both perfect, right,
and we'll make sure that we put that in the
show notes forverybody listening. So, as always, thanks for hanging
out with me here on the Golfing Bomb Squad. Carl,
thank you for your time. It's been awesome having you
and we'll definitely have to do it again.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I really appreciate it. Chris, It's been a great conversation
and I love the opportunity to do just to share
some ideas with you.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Awesome. We'll look forward to having you on the next time.
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